Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Carlie Hanson

Episode Date: January 27, 2023

Join us for Episode 2, where Joel speaks with Carlie Hanson on the importance of art as therapy, the idea that every human is born creative and how growing up means figuring yourself out little by little. Hanson recounts her path from working at a McDonald’s drive-thru to moving to LA fresh out of high school, where she slept on her manager’s couch in pursuit of her musical aspirations—all while experiencing life outside of Wisconsin for the first time. Check out Hanson’s upcoming single, “Blueberry Pancakes,” coming out next Friday, February 3. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠Spotify.⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, it's Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly from Alternative Press. On today's episode, I'm talking to Carly Hanson. What's up, Carly? Hello. How's it going? It's going good. How are you? Good. Thanks for coming. Thanks for having me.

So I guess we can start by talking about your shows because you have shows coming up. Yes. Okay, cool. Yeah. Let's dive into it. You have three shows coming up? Yes. I were going to do some around California so I think I'm going to do hotel cafe and um go to the house of blues in Anaheim and then do a festival in San Diego sick so before the there's a tour event eventually you get to a tour what next year yeah yeah next year yeah yeah so I'm excited I haven't I haven't played like a line of shows in so long because the pandemic obviously pre-pandemic

Yeah, my last tour was in 2019 with Lov. I opened for him. And then the pandemic hit. And then I just did one one-off show at the Moroccan lounge. No, I did a hometown show too. I went back home to Wisconsin and did one show there after the pandemic. But since then, it's been writing a lot. Did you go home to Wisconsin during the pandemic?

Yeah, a bunch, a bunch. I, like, did not want to be here. Yeah. You know, it's tough out here, especially during the pandemic, I wanted to, like, be with my family. And as much as it was, like, scary, traveling and shit, I just wanted to go be with them.

Yeah, it's a little, like, weird in a city sometimes with those, at least during COVID, when it was really shut down, it felt more apocalyptic, I think, here than maybe in other places. For sure, for sure. Is this fine, like, in front of my face? You could, like, move it. if you want. I kind of did that.

Sorry. Yeah. Is this better? However you want. Okay. Okay. I like to see you, but. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. But I think the, I think every, these are all good. Okay. Okay.

Cool. Uh, cool. Um, okay. So, to me, and one of the reasons I was excited to talk to you,

I feel like you're one of the coolest. And not to say you're, you're young or new because I know you've been doing it but like I think to a certain audience you might be new right? For sure. And definitely I feel like of this like new generation of artists, I feel like you're one of the coolest. Well, thank you.

I just do. You're just, you just, you just, it feels to me from the outside and getting up kind of like to see some of the inside of. of how you work and how you operate. It feels like you're really operating on your own wavelength. Yeah, I mean, I try, but thank you. But that's what it looks like and feels like to someone who, I feel like sometimes I get jaded,

certainly being kind of a music fan and in music myself for 206 years or whatever. I'm not jaded, but I'm a harder cell maybe sometimes when we, I feel like today we live in like this culture of like positioning yourself a certain way and jumping on this and doing that. Like there's waves of things and they and nowadays the waves are really fast. So like any given month there's a wave of something happening on TikTok or there's a wave of something happening happening. I'm not against any of it. For sure, for sure. And I'm not either. I think like it's all, you know, you can

just use it to your advantage for sure. Things like TikTok and social media. But yeah, I think lately I've really come into like a good space of just like being surrounded by the right people and also just like getting older

I feel like my taste has changed and like you kind of just figure yourself out a little bit better as you get older if if you're lucky. And yeah, I don't know. I feel like really, I've always tried to, like, stay very true to myself. But, like, in the beginning, because I came out here so young, like, fresh out of high school. And, like, all I knew was Wisconsin and my hometown and, like, my family and friends.

So I just kind of, like, let certain people tell me how to navigate things. And that was kind of tough. But still, even, like, when people would, you know, push their opinions on me, I think I've still stayed pretty, you know, center with myself. True to you. Exactly. Okay. And that's probably what I get is when I say like I see people operating and I see them jumping on things, everyone has to do what they feel like they have to do, right? And I also think that artists these days are really like pressured to like look at those things and keep up with those things, which I totally get.

we all have had we we all have like i think um our own version of that somehow but i don't see you it doesn't feel like that's as important to you as like just making the art you make which is nice to see because i do think as a music fan we want to believe that like someone's making something versus they're you know they're making something to to make it versus or How do I put this? They're making something to sell, which is a part of what we do. We have to sell things. I feel like I relate to artists who are making things and then they sell them after they make them,

as opposed to looking at something that everyone's doing and kind of finding their version of it to participate in that moment. Totally. And so it's something refreshing about you that I feel like it's not a part of. your model, right? Like if you're, if you're, because the heart part about being an artist that's doing this for a living is you are actually, you do have to find a way to make a living doing it so you can continue to do it. Right.

So you kind of like, at least for me, I've like felt this need that I need to play the game a little bit more. Get it. But because there are like certain pressures on you to like, I don't know, money shit and like. Real life. Yeah. So, of course, like, that shit gets in the way.

But, yeah, I mean, it's good to hear that that, like, comes across to you that I've, I've, I've really tried to stay true to myself and, like, in writing rooms, like, always just, you know, gone with what's real. Yeah. So. When did you come out here to L.A.? How old were you? And at what point in your career were you when you actually came out here and said,

I'm going to stay out here. So I was 17, I think, when I first came out here to do some writing sessions. And I came out here with my mom. And I was still in high school, still working at McDonald's. Oh, wow. And- So you worked at McDonald's? I worked at McDonald's.

How was it? And it was, it was fine. I mean, I did like the drive-through. You didn't like working the drive-thru? No, I liked it. It was fine. I worked in the drive-thru, and I worked. I did like the fries, so it was pretty chill, you know.

But, yeah, I saw some pretty, like, nasty shit. Yeah. You know, like, people dropping burgers on the floor and then they throw it back on the... That doesn't make me feel good as a patron. Yeah, no, I mean, I just ate McDonald's last night. Yeah, I eat McDonald's all the time. Yeah, so whatever. We're human.

What meal do you get at McDonald's? I'm a McDouble chick. McDouble? Is that a double cheeseburger? McDowell. So here's the difference. A double cheeseburger has two slices of cheese. McDouble, only one. Is there a piece of bread between the two?

No, no. No, that's a big Mac. Now you're getting married yourself. So a double cheese burger has sliced cheese patty, slice of cheese patty. Correct. McDoubles slice of cheese two burgers. Correct. You could just, you could work there.

I'm a quick learner. Yeah, yeah. So. I've raised my kids on McDonald's. I mean, that's the way to go. My wife is like, she's not anti-McDonalds because she eats it too, but she's like, concerned about their health practices.

I mean, I'm sure it's not the best, but it's They're young, they play sports. Yeah, yeah, whatever. You know, soothes the soul. We all grew up on it. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, anyhow, I was working at McDonald's, whatever, came out here.

What does McDonald's pay? What did they pay? If you don't mind me asking. I can't even remember. Minimum wage? Yeah, whatever that was in 2016. Wow. Was it eight bucks?

No. 875? Probably. Yeah. No. It was definitely like the eight. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a rough. Wow. Rough time. Was that your main only job? Yeah, that was my only job before I began the music stuff. Wow. Yeah. I guess it would have been because if you came out here when you were 17, you were still working there.

Mm-hmm. You probably got that job when you were 15 or 16. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Shout to McDonald's. Yeah. I better get my own McDonald's meal one day.

You know what? I think you will, actually. I think we need to pull up on that. I do. I actually think that like your story is good for their brand. 100%. So let's get it popping. Yeah.

Donald's. So anyways, yeah. So I came out here. And yeah, that was when I, that was my first insight into what was happening in L.A. in the music industry and how to like write songs and do sessions. and all that stuff. And then, so I did a few sessions out here, and then from meeting these producers,

I met a songwriter who then introduced me to my first manager, Danny, Danny, Danny, Resson, shout out Danny. And my mom had, like, met her, and she was very, you know, she could trust her. And, like, we kind of just, like, I think I went back home to Wisconsin

after the first trip, and then, like, came back out here all on my own, And then I just, like, I had graduated high school early online, and I just came out here and stayed with my manager and just, like, lived on her couch and just started doing more sessions. And I didn't have any money. She was, like, helping pay for Uber's and shit for me to get to sessions. And, yeah, and that's, like, how it all began. And then I started releasing music independently. And then my second single that I put out, only one, like, took off and did really one.

well somehow and that's kind of how it all began good music too like like the second single takes off well it's because it's good and there's something you know i always think with with real artists especially artists i'm a fan of you tend to like connect to something in the way you said it or your voice the way you sing it that like it's it's interesting that the the the the latest song 608. 608. Which is like, to me, honestly, it's the best thing that you've done yet. Thank you.

It's so good. Thank you. I agree. I think it is too. Next level. Like, it's one of those ones. Like, you don't even think about that. Like, I don't even, like, worry about that song.

That song is going to, like, live and, like, people, are going to discover it. I hope, yeah. I love that one so much. I like, I don't even know. Well, I think during the pandemic, I did a lot of time, I had a lot of time where I was just like learning how to produce on my own. And so going into that session with my two friends when we made that song, I had like a way better understanding of how I wanted things to sound and just like terms I knew how to say this time around like delay and reverb and all that. And that. And I was, shit like I really things you don't think about and then you know when you know when you have the vocabulary because you know what they are here yeah yeah but then when you actually can articulate

what you need you just go to a next level like little things that you really don't think about that but when you say it I think about it too because I'm like when did I learn what reverb was right like you think you know it but well I always knew what reverb was but I didn't know it was right Exactly. And then you learn. And I think we like don't actually. It's the only reason why I think sometimes like those classes you can take and like, you know, the music courses you can take.

Most of it I think is bullshit. You're not going to learn what you can learn by doing what you did. Dive in and just do it. Yeah. It's so important. Sleep on someone's couch. The best way to learn how to make it exactly what you did. You come out and you just try to make it.

Yeah. And then it's really hard for a really long. time and then you it starts to come together yeah yeah it's really crazy it's really strange um yeah it's like hard going back to like my first time coming out here like i can't believe being in my mom's position like how hard it was for her to just be like okay i'm gonna hand my 17 year old off to like these new people and just like let her do her thing but like is she from wisconsin too Yep, yeah. Like her whole life?

She's from Illinois. But like not in the music business. My mom? Yeah. No, no, no. Okay, so to her, I feel like when I got started, I was from Maryland, kind of similar. Small place. Yeah.

Small town. Yeah. So not too different. I don't really know. You know, but. I've been to Wisconsin and toured there, and I think I have a good idea of where you're from in Wisconsin. And I've driven across the whole state a million times on tour. it's very Maryland-ish in the rural parts it feels like similar, you know.

Yeah, yeah. You could say Milwaukee is similar to Baltimore. Outside of the city is, you know, rural, rural. Yeah, rural. The rural jurors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But when I came to L.A. as well, I was probably 20, 19 or 20. Didn't know anything about the music business, only what I'd read, tried to learn as

much as I could. And now, my, my parents weren't involved, so they didn't have to worry. They had other things to worry about at the time. But I think about, like, your mom basically going like, okay, this is what you're going to do with your life. You're going to come out here and just, like, sleep on people's couches and work with, like, songwriters. And you don't know who's who and what's what.

And, like, it is a big leap of face. It is, it is. But I don't know, she really believed in me from the beginning. And I, yeah, I just, like, can't imagine my child. I don't know. It's crazy. But yeah, at some point, you have to just, like, trust. Yep. Is she your number one? She's my number one. I would not be sitting here. Well, obviously, I mean, she gave birth to me. But yeah, she believed in me. Like, she believed, she, she took, she took a jump and she paid for shit. And she. That's dope. She really did it. So shout out Gene. Gene showed up. Gene, tat it on my head. That's amazing.

Yeah. That's great. Yeah. That's really nice. She's amazing, yeah. That's awesome. Everybody needs that person. For sure.

For sure. They do. It's really important, especially out here. Like, it just gets... Or in any situation, you just need somebody that... But L.A. can be a little bit of, like, a... A wild. It's very wild.

It is. Yeah. In its own weird way. It's not what everyone says it is. It's not. It's this other thing that you only discover by coming here when you don't know anyone and you don't have anything. And you have you don't. It's a weird place like that, right?

Like it feels like it takes years. It takes years to me to like to get your roots here. It really does take a few years to like. Oh yeah. I mean, I didn't even have like a core. I'd say now my fifth year living here. Wow. I have like two close friends maybe out here, which is, I don't know.

I guess maybe that's just me personally. I find it harder to like, you know, say somebody's my true friend. But yeah, you got to weave through all the madness. I think that sounds like true. Yeah. That sounds like really like that makes sense. sense to me. I've been here for, I think 19 or 20 years. That's a long time. Almost, almost 20. My whole life. And the first half was just learning, like, what this place really is. But then I got,

I actually built out a life here that, like, I feel like it's completely different than what everyone else thinks it is. I think that's the thing about LA is when you're not from LA, you hear about it. and you see on TV or whatever. Oh, yeah. And then you come here and you think it's that. So the whole time you're looking for that or looking at that, then you discovered it's not that at all. You get beneath that, like, first layer.

And then there is a life here for sure. Like I'm raising my kids here and they're like normal kids. That's good. Pretty normal. I mean, to me anyways, I think they're normal. And I'm married. And I've been married for a long time. Yeah.

Which a lot, which it feels like the opposite of what the people tell you is possible here. Oh, yeah. It's like, you know? Yeah, I rarely meet people that are like settled down or in the music industry that are like settled down and, you know, doing the thing out here. I wonder if it's like, I wonder if it's not just L.A. I wonder if like everyone labels everything and we think it's something that it's not. That sounds like a song. You know what I mean?

Yeah. It probably is a song. Yeah. You can have that one. Okay, cool. I'll write it tonight. I'm not writing any songs anytime soon. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know. So when you grew up in Wisconsin your whole life, you started playing music early? Yeah, like I picked up the guitar and stuff when I was like pretty young, like eight maybe. and then when I discovered Justin Bieber on YouTube, that was when I knew. So you were early Bieber fan. Oh, man. I was like Belieber number one. That's dope.

I had like fan pages that I made for him on Twitter. Amazing. I was very crazy. And have you stayed on the whole ride? Yeah. Cool. Yeah. He's a nice guy.

Yeah. Is he? Yeah. He is a nice guy. You should introduce us. He's a really nice guy. I bet. I mean, he's been through.

He's been through a lot. He's been through, I mean, we all watched him grow up from, like, age nine and above. Like, it's crazy. I think he's, to survive. That's how I always see. When I see, like, a young star popping off and everything, the biggest in the world, to me, it's just like, oh, that's going to hurt when, you know what I mean? Like, I feel that way.

Because I have from my own experience of like going through the side of music we all love is to make records and tour and like live our dream because we all just dreamed of making expressing ourselves making something we hoped would last forever. And you mean you're in the process of doing it, right? Like 608 to me, classic. It took everything you did to that point to get there. And now you have that know-how. And you made this, like, to me, timeless, classic piece of music. You could have released it five years ago. You could release it this year.

You could release it in five years. There's not a bad moment for that piece of music. And I'm sure the other songs you love, you said, what are the other two that are coming? Illusion. Illusion. And then, well, I mean, there's another one coming, but I don't know. You don't want to say it. I don't want to say it.

Totally. But, yeah. But if there are anything like 608, it's a body that is like, to me, it's like ageless, timeless music. But you got to, you got to get there without the pressure of the entire world. Yeah. Judging every next, every little thing you were doing. Oh yeah. I can't imagine.

I mean, yeah. It's definitely. I actually think you're coming into. your like musical power at the perfect time in your life because you've gotten to live enough life that you you you have a maturity that you understand certain things that like had you maybe have had the kind of success you wanted when you were 17 or 18 it might not have gone as well for you emotionally I think you're exactly right I think I think I think you're exactly right yeah and I think if I if something did like when that's my

my second single blew up and I would, like, if that was the moment and that's where I, like, played, you know, world tours and all that, like, I was not ready at all. I was, I was 17. I was, like, a baby. Like, even now, I think I'm still a bit of a baby, but I definitely have matured just from, like, you know, living here and being on my own and everything. But, yeah, I think you're exactly right. I'm excited for this music. It's very, it is very real and it's very, I don't know, it's just like, what a... It's really good. Thank you. It's why it's, I mean, obviously I'm a fan, but like the music to me was, I was telling Joey,

it's why I wanted to talk to you because it's so, it's amazing to me that like when you look at everything you've done to this point, it's, it's cool. It's the one thing I like about the modern music, the way that is, it's so easy to put music out is you actually get to see your entire growth arc. Yeah. When you go on Spotify, you look at all your releases and you can listen to all of them and see your growth arc. It wasn't like that, you know, when we were starting out, you know, back in the 90s

and the early 2000s, you didn't have the ability to kind of like see it all next to each other. Well, you had like CDs. Yeah. But you'd have to like get them all and like it. I mean, yeah. And you'd have to find the, similar. Find the demos. Yeah.

You know, like, like essentially some of the music that you released to me are like are really great early demos in some. If you look, if you put 608 next to it, it feels like it's the, it's the beginning of what is now becoming like this, this. I just think it's a musically, it's stronger than most music. because it's so easy to release music now, anyone can release music. And then anything can, you know, any given moment happens on TikTok or on line and a song becomes big.

It doesn't mean it's a great recording. It doesn't mean it's actually a great song. Maybe there's a line in that song that's great or there's a piece of that song that fits some content thing. It doesn't mean that great music is like a sound, a sound, a piece of writing or recording is like the biggest thing. Yeah, you're very right. I'm not mad at it.

I think it's great. Like it gets an opportunity for an artist who maybe will do their best work after that. What happens, though, if something gets big too early, they get stuck in something where they grow past it and people actually just want to hear that early. Yeah, they just want to hear the same shit. Yeah, that's exactly what my manager in the past would tell me. So yeah, I think I'm in a really good spot. You're in a great spot.

Yeah. It's good stuff. I really like it. I really like it. I'm glad you like it. It means also, I have to say, it means a lot coming from you. Oh, thank you. You know, my older sister would always play your guys' records when I was like, well, I was like five.

That's cool. Five or six. But, you know, my favorite is emotionless. Emotionless. Yeah. That's a deep cut. It's a deep cut. We'd always play that shit when we were.

going for drives when I was younger. Any reason why? Just that song stood out. Just love that song. That's a deep cut. That's a very personal, that's interesting. That song was a lot of our fans' favorites. And it was like tough because it was sharing a very deeply personal moment, you know, in our life.

That ended up becoming something that was like a thing. about us, even though we didn't want it to be a thing about us, it became a thing about us. You know, like the thing I think a lot of people related to with, we had a very complicated, painful relationship with our father. And it wasn't an easy thing to talk about ever. It still isn't easy to talk about. Yeah. It was easier to write about.

But then you have to, when you write about it, then you have to talk about it. Yep. Everybody wants to know, like, is it true? Right. And you're like, yeah, I don't want to talk about it, but it is true. But yeah, I mean, it's so, I mean, that's why I'm sure it's a lot of fans' favorite, favorite song, because it's so honest. It's the same thing I'm trying to do right now with my music is just like pull from the places that aren't the easiest to. Most comfortable.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Is it easier for you to write about it than talk about it? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I like, I could never. Yeah. So, sorry to put that on you right now.

No, I don't mind. You know what? At this stage of my life, I found that I can share pretty easily. I did a lot of therapy. And I think that, like, I got into a really kind of therapeutic mindset. So I'm always every uncomfortable spot in my life is an opportunity to, like, analyze why is it so uncomfortable for me to, like, talk about that. Because the truth of the matter is, I feel like we all are having the human experience.

experience. So we all have a real we have or don't have a relationship with our father, a relationship with our mother, a relationship with love, a relationship with ourself. There's the relationship with me, there's the relationship with we, and there's a relationship with the, like the world, how we see the world, and then how does all of them connect? How does my relationship with me affect my relationship with we or how does that affect they all are intertwined and then i just i've become obsessed with like getting to the truth of the matter and like so i never mind talking about it and i'll share what i can and and sometimes and sometimes i won't feel comfortable to share everything but i do feel like our childhood and, you know, our experience with our family or in life somewhere

caused us to feel the need to, as artists, to feel the need to make art. Because art is kind of therapeutic. So it's like this healing process or this process we're trying to like get something out. And I'm always interested in what? was your like where you just you had this like and by the way like a nice childhood and a nice growing up in a nice way is it can actually produce really great artists like there is something about good self-esteem and like support like you had support from your mom and like therefore you have the confidence to to create art and then some people they have maybe

they don't have that, but they had some other thing that triggered them to make art. I actually think that everyone is creative. It either just gets killed or stifled. And I think that every single human has something creative about them. They have to explore it and find it. Some people may paint. Some people may do music. Some people may do both.

Some people may write poetry. Some people may have a knack for like design or, you know what I mean? Like everyone's got creativity. Oh, yeah. For sure. I don't even know why. Like, I don't even know why I started. I think a huge thing in the beginning when I would like start writing in my notebook

and stuff was I hated school. I hated school. I hated learning. I don't know if I have like undiagnosed ADHD or I just like couldn't pay it. Probably. Probably. But I would just, I would just resented going to school. And I would just spend, you know, a lot of my time writing in my notebooks during class.

And then I'm sure, you know, like that started some sort of like... Lyrical thing. Yeah. And then, yeah, I don't know, just kind of like kept going. And I would always just be writing constantly in a diary journal, journal. Do you still have all your journals? Back home, yeah, somewhere. That's dope.

But I would like never. I'd be so... I wonder like what I was saying in like seventh grade and like you never have to share them but it's like going back and reading them would probably be really really cool yeah yeah I should definitely do that sometime um but yeah I still have them so can't let those go did you like have a ton of friends in school I had a few I was like yeah I had like two three like close friends and then like I got along with everyone I wasn't like bullied or anything like that right like you know um but what Once I got to high school, it became like very clicky. And I think I really, and I went to a school where I felt very out of place because a lot of the kids had like very rich parents, the parents owned businesses. All the kids played sports and had straight A's and all that shit. And I just didn't, I wasn't like that at all.

And so I think that was a huge, a huge turning point in feeling like I'm a bit, you know, different than who I was surrounded by. And so that led to smoking weed and drinking and all that. Oh, yeah. What age was that? Maybe like 15, 16, 17. Wow. Actually, I think that's probably average, right? Yeah, that's normal.

Yeah, right? I was too scared. Really? When I was 16, 17, I maybe smoked weed when I was 18. Really? Wow. But I never really got into like, I was never really like, I don't know what it was. I mean, maybe I'm just like, I was pretty anxious.

Yeah. Kid. Mm-hmm. And I think that those things may be, like, I was too anxious to do them. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm like, the late bloomer, though, on all that stuff. Yeah, I was like, I'm very anxious. I need to, like, smoke.

Were you anxious? Oh, yeah. Still, to this day. I'm like, and I, yeah, I don't know. It's like hyper. It's not, I don't know. It's like energy or something? Energy mixed with anxiety, mixed with...

ADD? Yeah, probably. So it's probably, to be honest, it probably is like, I'm not, I'm not an expert, but it probably is a little exactly what you think it is. Yeah. And like all my siblings have ADD, so I feel like it's. How many siblings do you have? I have a little sister, older sister, and older brother. Four? Yes. I have four in my family. Yes. Then I have a half brother, but I'm not like close with him. It's interesting. I have a half-sister.

Yeah, so it's interesting. But yeah, so I'm in the middle. We have a lot in common. We sure do. Let's go. Maryland, Wisconsin. Maryland and Wisconsin. They are very similar, I swear, if you ever go.

When you go there on tour, you know. What's the capital? Of Maryland? Yeah. Annapolis. Oh, I don't know. It's like a small sailing town. Okay.

That's where people play the shows. They play in Baltimore. Baltimore. Yeah. I don't think I've been there. Baltimore? I don't think I'm in there. You probably wouldn't go unless you were on tour, to be honest.

Yeah, I know. I always feel like it's a state people don't think of, but it's an amazing state. I love Maryland. I'm a Maryland person through and through, like, I go home whenever I can. Is it like a farm vibe? There's huge farm areas. And then D.C. is there. D.C., Maryland, Virginia.

Okay. So there's that side of Maryland, which is like the D.C. side. And then there's the kind of Baltimore side, which is like Baltimore, eastern shore. And then there's a lot of rural kind of areas. Really nice, really beautiful. People are really nice. Yeah, it sounds like. It's lovely.

Sounds like Wiscoe. Is there winter? There's winter. There's winter. Yeah. Very cold in the winter, very hot muggy in the summer. I also think winter, people who experience winter have like an itch. to be more, I don't know, more, I don't know, creative or like,

because seasonal depression is a thing. Seasonal depression is a thing. And I, I had a little bit of that. I have, like, all kinds of, like, I think, things I worked through from childhood stuff to, and then also just, like, I think we grew up in a little place where we didn't actually get out much. So we didn't actually go to, like, the city a lot. So we didn't and it was in in the 80s and 90s it wasn't like there was access to like now

It feels like the world is really connected but it wasn't like that then I mean we didn't have cable you know so it's like you're isolated a little bit and then when we left home we were young we were you know teenagers and then you go out and do the world and it's like a little bit of a shock and I think we were lucky to have music. I don't know what my life would even be if I didn't have music to pour all that energy into. Who did you like grow up admiring music-wise? So one part was I was a big hip-hop fan. My heroes were like the really simply like the guys who inspired me from a perspective of like it looked like they were building like these businesses.

I always thought that was so, I was always inspired by that. I think money was always an issue when I was growing up. It was always an issue. And so I always dreamed of it not being an issue. And so part of me was reaching for, I think through music, part of me was reaching for success in that regard. And then part of me was reaching for validation. And I think I early on had real self-esteem problems.

And I didn't really know what that even meant. I didn't know I had a low self-esteem. That's the other thing about the mental health stuff is like when you're going through it, you don't actually know you're going through it. You just feel bad. And it's not like you're sitting with a team of therapists who are telling you, oh, that's what this is. And, you know, what you're experiencing right now is called anxiety.

And that's PTSD. And, oh, that's your low self-esteem kicking in. I think that's the tricky part about actually today I think culturally it's not taboo anymore to just talk about but then it was like weird it was a weird if you even 10 years ago I mean I know for sure like my older sister she's almost 30 now and it was definitely like not a thing that people and even like being gay. and because she's also gay. It was not like it is now.

No, like it's, it's very talked about now and welcomed. There's, there's, it's still, of course there's still people who, who make life hard for everyone, right? There's, there's, there, so no matter what, you're still gonna run into people that, that,

but at the, at, at least now, Now it feels like we've gotten to a place where anyone that could otherwise feel like they're not represented or they're not included. It feels like we've come a long way with everyone like for people sticking up for other people and for people to be included and taken care of. But like we still have a long way to go in my opinion. But like we're in a place where we can see it. We could see it happening. Like we're like yeah, people speak up now if someone's not being, you know, if someone's, if there's hate, it's combated. You know, it feels that way.

But I don't know, five years ago, 10 years ago, it's not that long ago. No, yeah. There wasn't the same. Yeah. It's great. It's great. I'm glad that people are, you know, talking about it. We're headed in a good direction.

I think so. I hope so. I hope so. Yeah. But yeah. So I think that like mental health and your emotional experience period, we all have it. We all have our version of it. But I do think that there is something there.

And I don't even know how we got on this, but where I do feel like part of why I did music was that. Yeah. Was a need to be expressed myself. Oh, yeah. And work some shit. out that I didn't even know I needed to work out because I didn't know it was a thing. Like, it's like, I, not to say, like, I knew the money was always an issue, but I didn't exactly think I was poor.

I knew that I was in pain, but I didn't exactly think I had mental health issues. You know what I mean? So learning actually about learning what is what is actually a really important part of, like, our own growth. And I think that, like, that's what I got to do. Actually, it didn't even, I think it was after I went through almost 15 years of a career before I actually started working on myself and realizing, like, what that work actually is.

And it's not, it's, it's therapy, but it's other things. It's a lot of things. But I think that, like, music got me there. If I didn't have, you set out. at a young age, and here you are in mid-stride, you're still on your, you're still on your arc going up, right? You have a life ahead of you of work with music, but it's all wrapped up in the work you do on yourself as well, because it's all part of this, like, process.

It's a full circle thing for sure, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll see. We'll see how it goes. I think it's going good. No, it's going good. It's going good. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely still, like you said, music helps with my mental, my mental. So just. We're lucky we have it.

Yeah. Could you imagine? It's a great tool. I know. I don't know where I'd be. I seriously don't. I don't know what I'd be doing. I feel like the career is, it's great. But I'm gonna And I'm gonna My music My Cable

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It's all euro all in shopify.coms bar records. That's the part that I think a lot of artists get lied to that that success is the answer. It's definitely that the success with your music is something to strive for and then identifying like in your own

And I also think that defining your own success is super important. Another thing that I feel like they don't teach us, we need to learn how to do that, is like what does success look and feel like versus it can't just be a song getting streamed X number of times or a chart. No way. That's so linear. That's what I used to, not all the way, but like I used to just be like all I wanted. Because I watched Justin Bieber's documentary when I was 10 years old, all I wanted to do and achieve was play Madison Square Garden. And that's like all I wanted.

And now, I'm sure I would love to do that. But now I can proudly say that like just like making a song like 608 and then putting it out is enough for me. Huge accomplishment. Yeah, that's like enough for me now to just like feel like I've succeeded in some way. Just because like, I don't know, it's way more gratifying than like the surface. level shit that the streams and the tick-top numbers and all that like i just that's all just the byproduct like that'll come yeah when you play madison square garden when you have this when you have that all of that is it's still things you attain and achieve but but none of those one thing kind of embody the

the the whole it's got it's it's it's it's so much more layered and complex than like i always say when I see now at my age, I look at artists that I see that look like they're happy and it look like they're free as the ones that I admire, the ones who feel, they feel fearless. It just feels like they're just doing what they want. And it just, you're one of them. I see it and I go, that's refreshing, literally putting music out, just putting music out. It doesn't feel like there's, it's still going to be marketing. That's what all music.

We all market our music. Next time I put music out, I'm going to market it. For sure, yeah. It's all part of the process. And however at the time you market the music, you do it in general. Generally, you do it that way, right? But like the core of like the feeling I get when I see someone's music, I almost can feel like, did they write that? Or did they try to write a song like this?

Right. Yeah, I mean, I feel like I see a lot of that, which sucks. So, yeah, that's why I'm just trying my best to write the real shit. You're doing it. Thanks. Do you think, do you consider yourself alternative, an alternative artist? Do you have a genre? Here's the thing.

I feel like I've been saying like, oh, this project's alt. this project's indie but like what does that even mean? I don't know anymore you know I don't know what it means so It feels like it to me but like I also don't know what that means Yeah I don't really know what the true definition

of either of those genres are But yeah I mean I think it's like It's definitely not like straight pop This next record I think this whole album I think it's like I don't know

Yeah altie Altie Salty alternative to something yeah yeah something um i i i think it's super cool that you um i think it's cool you gave the justin bieber nod i don't i feel like i feel like that's really important like where you started even though i know now you're probably into all kinds of things and like um i feel like this record too is like a little it's got like a bon iver vibe going on it that's like in like my favorite things yeah all of my favorite parts yeah and you know he's

from Wisconsin too I did know that oh Claire does he still live there I think so I think he's still just like chilling in a cabin that's cool that's how I hope that's how I imagine that's what I'm trying to be yeah in a cabin he he has a festival that he does in O'Clair I think oh wow that I would love to play at to play at I bet you will that's a dream gig and also he should just like listen to 608. I bet he will. Because I'm pretty sure that's his area code. It's really good.

Thanks. I bet he will. I hope so, so let's make it happen. I feel like just he hears this and then he listens because it's just that's what I would do. I mean, it's a huge compliment. Yeah. Huge compliment.

Yeah. So yeah, this, this. this next album or whatever it is. Feels like an album's happening. Yeah, I think so. It's just, yeah, it's like a mix of all my inspirations and just like not being so afraid of experimenting with like structure and like stuff. Because I feel like on the past projects that I've put out,

I've been very like way more clean and way more just, you know, like verse, chorus, verse, chorus bridge vibe. And on this album, I really tried to like, you know, just let's put an instrumental part here and like let's let's let it breed a little bit more and let's like add a bunch of stacks here. And like let's because I don't know, I feel like in a lot of pop sessions, people are very like, they're just thinking about like radio and they're thinking about fucking TikTok or whatever and they want shit to be really neat and clean. And I just don't think that's like. Also the visuals are super raw. But I actually feel like that shift happened. And it happened, for whatever reason it happened.

It's when an artist gets the, whatever it is, it's like the switch where you make decisions versus early on a lot of times you're in the studio and you haven't been in a million studios. And so you maybe won't speak up in some places and you won't make a full decision because maybe you think for whatever reason that person has been doing it longer than you and maybe they know what's right or what's best like it's okay you it's part of the development process right is like you make music and for whatever reason or you just didn't know how and then you get to that point where you know how yeah and you make decisions and you're like this is what I want to do here I want to do this yeah because I think it's cool it doesn't matter for whatever reason I just

like this part here. I want it there and I want it to live there and that's how I want it. And you're making the artistic decisions that maybe either A, you didn't feel like you could make or B, you didn't know how to make them, whatever. That's very, I think that's exactly what it was. And I'm glad that I took the time during the pandemic to really like figure that shit out. And also I was just bored. So what else am I going to do?

So yeah, I think that'll show through all the other songs. It's great. Thanks. I'm trying. I love it. I'm stoked. Thanks for coming and talking. Yeah, thanks for having me. Great.

Album's coming. Album's coming. Or not. Maybe. Not sure. Something. Yeah. Music's coming.

Yeah. More music videos, a tour. Yeah. Do you think that you'll end up back in Wisconsin or do you think you'll be in L.A. forever? or does it matter? I would like to not live here my whole life. I appreciate L.A. for what it has to offer and the weather is amazing, usually.

But yeah, I just don't think this is where I belong. It's where your soul feels at home. My soul is not here. Do you think it's Wisconsin? It could be. I'm also very into the Colorado vibe. Oh, cool, like the mountains and stuff. And I'm also into, I like the coldest, I like Seattle and Portland.

Yeah. I love to just be in the rain and, you know, be in a cabin. It's cool up there. Yeah. So. Nature. Nature. Like I need more greenery.

I need to see the stars. I mean, the truth is, is you can always come to L.A. It's always, it's here. Yeah. Yeah. I felt the same way I was like, I don't think I'm going to be here forever. And then somehow I'm still here. But I also don't feel stuck.

So like, I'm lucky. That's good. When we want to leave, we leave. We can go to the East Coast and we can, well, if we do a month, and we've done this, we do a month in Maryland or we do a few weeks in New York, then I come back here and I feel Yeah, that's good. Totally refreshed. Yeah.

So, yeah, there's always the option to come back. It's always here. But yeah, my home is somewhere in the woods. Yeah. Yeah, I think. So that's the plan. I see it. Okay, cool.

Thank you. Thank you. Great talk. Good stuff. Good stuff. See you at the show. Oh yeah. Let's go, baby.