Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Chase Atlantic: Part 2 - Clinton Cave

Episode Date: March 22, 2023

In the second installment of Artist Friendly’s three-part series featuring Australian alternative trio Chase Atlantic, host Joel Madden is joined by lead guitarist Clinton Cave. Listen in to hear a heartfelt conversation where Joel and Clinton discuss the band’s humble beginnings, and having no regrets about where the band started. Clinton reveals the depths of the artistic pressure the band puts on themselves in writing, producing and mixing their own albums, explaining how the band’s creative process is both a tribute to and escape from the theme of mental health, one that he has personally come to terms with in the past few years. Come back next Wednesday, March 29, for part three featuring lead vocalist and bass guitarist Mitchel Cave. Part one of the series featuring vocalist and rhythm guitarist Christian Anthony out now! ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠Spotify.⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, everybody. This is artist friendly from Alternative Press. I'm Joel Madden. And this week, part two of our Chase Atlantic series. Today, I'm talking to Clinton Cave. For me, it's like the three of you in Chase Atlantic have three real truly different perspectives. But like it's kind of like a trifecta in a real way. Like to me, it's like a trinity of like on one side you have Mitchell. On the other side, you have Clinton. and in the middle kind of bridging it is Christian. That's how I, I kind of. He's a peacekeeper. Sort of, yeah, but he also like,

he, like we were talking in the car, like, he has a certain amount of balance to him that, like, is what I think he needs. His choices tend to be very balanced. His heads are very screwed on. And is very grounded and screwed on. And I think every group needs that. But then every group needs.

But highly talented as well, though. Extremely talented. He stays quiet about it and humble, but he's got single source and him. I don't actually think he looks at himself as as as as I think we think he is, but I think that's part of what he brings to Chase

Atlantic is, I think part of the reason you guys can continually go forward is all three of you bring these different motivations that you all need. So my perspective with you is you're the oldest. So you have a bit of a big brother thing, whether you want it or not.

Yeah. And sometimes, I think you and Mitchell act in different roles. Sometimes he's the big brother in ways and sometimes you're the big brother in ways. But I think you guys have a really wild chemistry as brothers. And it's like, it's weird. It's like something like I've never seen anywhere in any other band. And then you have Jesse and Pat, obviously, too.

Yeah. That are like, their brothers, yeah. Yeah, your brothers. And they definitely like anchor the band in a lot of ways. And there's this union of people that all, like, have grown up together, know each other and accept each other. And they're pro what they do. Like, not just even the music side. Like, they're great musicians.

Yeah. But around that, you know, the way they conduct themselves, the way they can hang out and still be brothers. And, like, all the work we've been through since we've, like, started. Like, when we were on the road in 2017, it was just the five of us. Yeah. And we brought Duane out and a boss driver. Yep. I think he had like one crew guy with him too.

And yeah, Jason and Pat, you know, stepped up to roles. We didn't necessarily ask them to do it. They just did it. And you just see them now. They're just so professional around, you know, those environments and stuff like that. And they're humble. Yes. And they know you guys better than anyone.

And you know them better than anyone. And I think there's a real brotherhood. When I'm around, I see a family of guys that have all grown up together and been through all kinds of stuff. kinds of stuff. And I think that as a group, though, I look at you guys and I see all these different elements that make it what it is. And I think sometimes when you're in it, like you are, you guys aren't necessarily going to be able to zoom out and give each other and yourselves the kind of credit that I can. I'm emotionally invested and attached, but not the same way you are. I'm not, you're living in the middle of this kind of crazy, like, world.

Yeah. I think in the down times, though, like, you know, we kind of separate a little bit between stuff and get time to think back to it. And that's when it kind of, I wouldn't change it. No, I wouldn't want to change anything in the band or anything like that. And the touring. Yeah, I get to look back and you know, I get a little teary sometimes. It's kind of sweet.

Yeah, because you guys have come a long way. And you're the oldest one. So, you, you've been at it the longest, essentially. Essentially. Yeah. And probably, I think... I just made Mitchell a little... It was something at the beginning too.

It just made him like a little child star, kind of rode his whole childhood. Made him a little Disney guy. No. Do you regret it? No. Can't change you right? I mean, yeah, I'm still older brother, so it's probably a bit of a dick sometimes. Right.

He's still a little shit, but like I think it's good to like, Lauren doing that together. You know, you can make jokes about it sometimes. Right. my childhood, blah, blah, blah. But no, he definitely wanted to do it as well. Right. I think we just both had fun doing at the beginning, which is the main thing. And then Christian, too, we all just had fun.

It's always been your dream? Yeah, I think so. It just feels right. I don't want to, like, have a different job. Never really wanted to have a different job. Maybe different hobbies and stuff as well, but like, it just feels very natural. You know, life has just changed so much in the last few years that, you know, I kind of step back a little bit and try to delegate more.

And in doing that, I maybe step back a little bit too much sometimes. And it was good because it allowed Mitchell and Christian to kind of take lead as well and be grown men and grow up. And that's what you're saying when Mitchell can be the older brother too because they kind of just fall back a bit and let them kind of do their thing. It was beautiful to watch. But now, you know, like coming into this year, I'm realizing that, you know, we got we got stuff to do. We got like, I want to make. It's only just like it hasn't changed. Nothing's gone down.

like everything's just consistently going up slightly like it always has been yeah and i think now it's just the perfect time to really focus up and you know i'm trying to get my life sorted in many areas and i think it's going to be really i feel confident going into this next album process and just from here onwards you know i'm about to turn 30 and i'm just finally realizing like yeah probably time to sharpen up a little bit again so i'm not getting any younger So I'm going to make some special shit happen, you know? Yeah. And I actually don't feel discouraged by age either, like, at all.

I feel more confident now probably than I ever have at this age now. And I don't feel like I need to be like, you know, my early 20s anymore. I think 30s are the best decade. I'm looking forward to it. I think it's when people come into their power. If I can behave myself, I'm going to have a great 30s. Dude, I think you, I think that 30s is the best decade. I think you come into a real self-understanding.

Yeah. And you're still young, though. So you still, you know. And, you know, I think that, I think it's your best decade. So you were telling me that the last three weeks since you've gotten back, you guys were on tour, you were. I pushed it all around the world. And you were saying that this last three weeks, you feel like, and maybe the first three weeks extended period of time that you've been able to have to yourself to like. Clarity.

And come back down. And focusing on my. myself coming down from earth and just taking care of myself a little bit better as calming your nervous system probably yeah I with the shows and traveling and never having a secure home for like months on end like I think it just finally got to me you know I was on a few different psych meds as well which you know have helped here and there through the years of my 20s which is why I'm looking forward to my 30s being more confident myself coming off them at the end of last year was a

bit rattling. Definitely lost the plot a little bit. Probably had a few too many drinks. Right. It all mixes up, right? Yeah. Really upset my stomach. Ended up getting acute pancreatitis, which is actually from stress as well. I think it just aggravated it with the drinking and stuff like that. Is it possible though, like when you get a minute to stop and unpack all the layers, you've been going really hard, making records touring for a decade, really, just going for it. Not a lot of calm in that. You kind of hit a peak fever. What I would say is an early peak moment, right?

Like one of your first real, like what I think is like Chase Atlantic is one of the biggest bands in the world that people still are discovering, right? Like I look at it and you go, you have all these. fans, you sell more tickets than a lot of pop artists, but you're just still getting discovered by the world at large. As a band and your fans and you guys are like, you've been building this relationship with this large group of people for the last, you know, real like seven years of grinding for sure, like just touring, making records, touring, making records, not stopping. Yeah. But the downtime in those little gaps too, because of the traveling, you don't necessarily get the proper experience of it.

Right. But it's also scary the calm. I like chaos. The calm can definitely make you feel like everything's going to go away or something. I like chaos, though. It's a very fine line. Jesse was telling me yesterday because he's actually looking into study behind, you know, the brain and touring and the highs and lows. Which is incredible.

That movie is going to be incredible when it's done. I can't say too much, but he had a great interview yesterday. They were a really important person that they're looking into doing actual proper studies now about it just for that. Will you allow them study your brain? 100% I'm like, I was like put me in. It's free health care for me. Yeah.

I'm Australian so I don't get the insurance. So please put me in your film about health. But no, no, that being said, yeah, like there's a fine line between chaos and creativity. And to get the ultimate creativity,

you need to get close to that line, but not cross it. But when you're on tour, you put people in that environment where there is chaos and no controlled necessarily timeline or schedule. Yeah. And it can push the artist over

and then that can be a danger zone sometimes. do you so I guess my question is growing up were you always anxious where you always kind of like a deeply emotionally like your your emotional experience in what you would say the things that maybe you've struggled with um we could wrap it up in the mental health label but really it's like your emotional experience on this planet right living um would you say you were always kind of acclimated towards being anxious and having kind of a conflicted emotional experience. I'm gonna, and like my music, my hair changed with me and has to be able to continue my rhythm.

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bar records I think I was like too self-aware of my emotional state or my mental health until like

the age of 19 pretty much or 18 even then like when I had my first real panic attack which was actually

induced by some stupid behavior but what like drugs and alcohol yeah but it was like it was legal

at the time but it was that I was a kid, but it was synthetic weed. I didn't know because I thought it was legal was doing the right thing. I just sprayed shit. All that stuff is terrible, yeah. Anyway.

The synthetic stuff. That triggered it. And that was my first ever panic attack proper and I went, oh, I have this. Right. And it was a big one. I was like, this is not good. And it gave me like PTSD almost that day. Like I still get scared.

Right. Shocked you. I was like, that was slapping the wrist, that's for sure. That's the wrong terminology for that. But yeah, I think I wasn't. self-aware because I was a swimmer, professional swimmer growing up, you know, I was training 11 times a week. Which just takes so much discipline.

Yeah, so I kind of thrive under like a lot of workload and stress. So chasing like is actually kind of healthy for me. If I can focus my, you know, my energy in the right direction, it keeps me busy and it keeps me moving and I have to keep doing stuff and I love it. When I kind of lose side of that or like maybe lose the passion temporarily, which has happened here and there. And there's so many factors to it. I think when I lose the passion a bit, which it's coming back very quickly, by the way, I'm loving it again.

And it's something I want to keep doing. But that's what scares me. That's when I get to a dark place. Right. But growing up, I was so much discipline. It was like 11 times a week. Training, you know, get up at 450. Train for like two and a half, three hours.

Did you like it? I wasn't forced to do it. Did you want to be a... My parents thought it was a bit crazy. Did you want to be a swimmer for at least a few years there? I think so. I think towards the end I realized that there was more than I wanted to do. But I was never forced into it.

I just wanted to be best. I was like, I got to win this. I was small than everyone. I got to win this, you know. Do you think you would beat Cody Simpson in a race? Oh, it was a tough question. He's a pretty solid lad at the moment. He's a pretty good swimmer.

Do you think he could swim as fast? I wasn't born with the muscular legs like him. But these legs are strong though, bro. I'm happy for him. You let me train as much as him. You let me train as much as him, no, I'll beat him. Okay. But I'm not going to, so that's not actually cool that.

You guys would be friends anyways. Yeah, I'm sure. You know, actually, he was, I think, a year or two younger than me. I met him when he was 12. Yeah. And he just made I, I, I, I, something like that. Yeah. We're both at the state swimming competition.

Okay, so you were both. And he was quick kid. He was good. I mean, I hadn't developed yet either, so I was like pretty, whatever. But he can't play the sweet sack. saxophone like you. I'm sure he has the lungs for it, though. So you guys have your strengths.

His may be a little faster swimmer than you and you may be their saxophone. Do you think that the swimming help your saxophone playing? I mean, I haven't seen him on the computer either. I'd like to see him in a production mixing session or engineering session. I don't know. Now, I'm not calling him out. I'm sure he's a good lad. Yeah, he is.

Yeah. It's just funny because you're both swimmers. He's been training. Yeah, I have no chance. I'm maybe in like a 20-meter sprint. Get me past that. It's very Aussie. Aussie, yeah.

It's very Aussie to like swim good like you guys. Yeah, it just came naturally too, I don't know. Did you train in the ocean? Yeah, I did some ocean swims. I didn't really train in there. I just on the weekends when I had days off, I would go out and race. I'm terrified of the ocean. I don't go in it.

It's pretty spooky sometimes. Pretty scary. It can be very, but that being said, like I used to be like in a whole group of all these grown men like wearing full stingray outfits. Right. And I just have my little dick togs on. what you call them DTs in Australia, dig dogs. What are those?

They're just a little, like... Or funky trunks too. Oh, yeah, little like... Speedos. Yeah, yeah. And then we'll have like, stingersuits on. I'd be like, nah, don't worry about it. Just hop in, just all skin in the water.

And then not trying to brag or be cocky, but I guess, you know, I have like a group of swimmers in the ocean because they're all racing. Yeah. If you're a shark or anything, you're going to see and be like, there's a lot of stuff going on there. I would always just sprint ahead and just be completely by myself. of pretty much naked notion, just going. Just swimming fast. Just didn't think I would just go and do it.

Do you have ADD, ADHD? Mitchell doesn't believe I do, but I think it's ADD. Mitchell has ADHD. It's definitely like a, it's hard to put a label necessarily on the one genre. It's a spectrum, right? Spectrum, yeah. So it's a whole spectrum of like a certain wiring. I think, you know, I don't think.

I think it's a lot of creative artists have it. But yeah, of course. creative brains wire a certain way they tend to have ability to focus on things they're interested in hyper focus on things you're interested in yeah i'll get locked on just like rcd very low tolerance for boredom and things you're not interested in which can be painful um and i think that that's something that you probably suffer from yeah and i i wouldn't say it's like hyper but i definitely you know in some conversations Like if I'm having a comment, not this conversation because it's like nice conversations.

Yeah. We always have good conversations. It's fulfilling. Yeah. It's good. But if someone's talking to me about boring stuff, I'll just keep interrupting and saying something on top of them or answer all their questions for them. I'm just like, get to the point.

What are you talking about? Like, you have to like keep like, you have to find something. It's like pleasure seeking as well. Like I don't like being bored. Right. I don't like being like static and not enjoying something. Yeah. Really frustrating.

It's hard. For me, it's hard to finish tasks. I find it really hard. That's that ADHD, ADD, whatever. I can always get to like, towards the finish line. And like once the hard work's done, I'm like, I don't want to finish it. I'll put it aside and wait until later. Or always, like, put things aside and be like, oh, I can do that later.

Or I'm trying to, I have an organizer now finally, getting my life in order. And I'll start ticking off what I need to do. But as soon as I, like, open that task, I see something from a different time. I instantly dive into that, which reminds me of another task, which I didn't add to the schedule. That sounds like ADD. Yeah, it definitely is there. And that actually does cause a little bit of distress and depression too. I didn't realize until, you know, I kind of realized I had that going on in my head and once I recognized it and worked on it, it definitely eased a little bit of the...

Don't you feel like mental health is a running theme throughout Chase's Atlantic's music, though? Don't you feel like a lot of your fans are experiencing the same thing that you guys are and that your music and, you know, at first glance, you may hear the like the party side of your music that sounds like it's just, but actually you go to a layer beneath it and you realize that it's actually a part of the, like the experience you're having is you're trying to ease your mind from this kind of this overwhelm, this. this, these feelings and like Chase Atlantic is a bit of, you've made it your life, but it's also been a great kind of escape for you. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's definitely escapism and like people don't want to necessarily hear like. And for your fans. Like a song about I went to my room and was quiet because I was anxious and trying.

Right. You can maybe flip that into a line where it has to do with what can be taken as a fun event. or something like that. I will say like going back now and like sitting down listening because I'm usually very focused on the mix as well, which I'm trying to let go of and try and focus in the moment with Mitchell and Christian on the actual writing and stuff.

And they've been writing lyrics really deep just for so many years now. Yeah. To know that like went on on Mitchell's brain, even when I just see him as like a little kid, you know? Smart boy. Both of them, very smart boys. I'm looking back at that now, I'm like, damn.

Maybe I actually realized that, you know, everyone's going through some shit as well, but, like, it always just felt mine not to be selfish about it. Maybe it came across that way when I was younger, but not that they're saying it was worse, but the place I used to get to in my head, it's just so physically, like, disabling that, you know, just take me out of the earth. I'd feel like I'm an alien. I'd be scared, shaking. Couldn't, like, couldn't think of one thing or look at one item in the room or anything

without feeling an overwhelming, like, urge of, like, pain pretty much. It's really hard to explain, like, a really bad imbalance mixed with situational factors, which, you know, people will say, like, even I look at my life, I'm like, I don't really have anything to be ungrateful for. It just really is, what's the word, it's a, it doesn't discriminate against anything. Yeah, it doesn't. And I don't think gratefulness has anything to do with it. I think when you're experiencing an emotional state and you're in that experience, I don't think it has anything to do with gratefulness.

I mean, gratitude is a tool we can use to try and pull ourselves out of it. I definitely tell my, you know, I tell if I'm talking to someone, I always find that people a lot of times open up to me about their emotional experience. I find that a lot of people talk to me about how they feel, which I like because I've, you know, like. You're good at talking about it and you're honest. I enjoy it. You can trust you. Trust a worthy guy. Yeah, like I'm not going to like use it against you in the future.

You know what I mean? Depending on the contract though, it might say might use it against you in the future. No, no. No, I think what I like is to be a safe place for people to be themselves. So I don't judge people. I don't judge people for doing anything that's... I appreciate that I've always been able to come to you guys. You can always tell me what you're doing.

And sometimes it's embarrassing. It's like I didn't mean to be as much of a dickhead, but I was... It's not embarrassing, though. Because we've all done it. Every person that's listening right now has had a moment where they did something. And they go, I wish I didn't do that. We all have. Anyone that's not saying that, like, trust me, bro.

I have definitely have my sloppy moments where I'm like, why did I do that? I don't know. But your body kind of just. We have to be kind to ourselves, though. Yeah. After. We have to treat ourselves like we would treat our, like, kid. Like, we would never see our kid anything they could do.

We would just put our arm around them and go, that's okay, dude. You fucked up. It's okay. It's like, come on. Let's just move through this. But we have to be kind to ourselves and we're not. Because all the information we get on the outside most of the time is not kind. It's criticism.

So we have a critical voice always. It's why we do. We do as well because we are critical with ourselves. And I find with you hyper-creative. and I say I say this in the sense of like creativity your brain is

on a different wavelength most of the time and you're creating whether you realize it or not it's what I notice. So most of the the little tasks getting to point A to point B doing the laundry, doing the dishes, doing the like things that other people might find extremely,

simple to just work in through their day. Someone who's thinking about something that's a million miles away. 100% always. And they have to figure out how to get there in light speed. And they have to solve that riddle in their head, whether it's a song or an idea or the next vision they have to have. It blocks them from doing the simple things. And then they get frustrated because you have to do the simple things to live. You got to eat. You got to get up and get dressed. You're You know, and so I... It sounds too tough already. I think that there's like a wiring of our brains that like we have to learn how to live with this kind of...

It's a blessing and a curse. It's really interesting you said that because I was thinking about that recently as well. I'm really glad you brought that up because, you know, I was thinking about it and, you know, people see you, they might be like, oh, he's moving slowly or he's not like on another planet. Not even me, just anyone that has it, even yourself maybe, like that same. Getting the little task done, like, at the present time when you're already thinking like 20 days or 20 weeks or years in the future, right? I think my brain works and it subconsciously, almost consciously, but subconsciously, is already working on stuff like three months for now. Totally. Like where I'm going to be.

I know that about it. I'm setting up little stones along the way. and then I get to a point and people will be like Clint how are you going to be able to do this or like how are you going to afford that car like what like what are you doing but I've subconsciously been planning little things without even telling myself it's called manifestation yeah but the manifestation is really just putting a plan action early without like it's imagining it early and imagining it but you don't realize you're doing stuff to even talk into someone or going to a certain place at a time of day but maybe with someone that might change your whole path

in like a week but that is we are there so the alter alternative universe, like that there's like a million versions of the reality we're in right now. And if we change the way we think, we shift ourselves towards whichever version of the reality. It's like a, it's like a, it's like a calibration a bit, right? And if I see it as like when you see like the, you know when there's like the trail when someone slowed something down and you can see it every single. frame and it looks like a trail of the object that's flying through the air. That's like the

versions of reality and like we we shift our dial and calibrate towards our good or towards our bad. And the interesting thing is I think the good thoughts are way more powerful than the bad ones. So I think that they they're like even if you wake up with a bad thought, if you by the end of the day established the sense of peace and power and good, you've already shifted more by doing that, than the whole day of bad. So I always try to encourage people who are struggling with depression and struggling with negative thinking that, like, as long as you land on one good, powerful thought, like, it's going to be okay. You'll get to the next day and you just got to put those days together. But anyways, firstly, you've been watching too many Avengers and Marvel movies.

I do love those. I actually, I was guilty pleasure with them too. Jesse gives me shit for it. Yeah. I actually, I kind of, there's solid writing in there. Like, you know, I can't deny it. It's true. So, and the story is saying, though, like your perspective, right?

And having a positive thought by the end of the day, it is tough with mental health. Because when you wake up, sometimes you automatically, most of the time for me, very anxious and depressed. And for like, everything I've done prior is like nothing. And I'm just stuck from, like, so. So, okay. So, okay. So can I give you a little tip? Yeah.

Because we're friends. I wouldn't do this if you didn't want it. If you didn't want to know. So the hyper-creative ADD-type brain, I think they, my therapist was telling me this. And so I'm relaying information from a professional that I really trust. They're wired in a way that you wake up feeling a little over. overwhelmed, groggy. They say that getting into your physical body first is like probably the first medicine you

can take for that is like a physical activity, whether it's like keeping a pair of dumbbells in your room and when you get up, just hit some bench presses or do some pushups or if you go back to the gym. Or if you can go. No, but like not even that involved. Like if you can go for a walk, great. But even if it's like- Physical first.

Physical first. get in your body. Because you know it's easy to wake up and just be in your head and go on your phone. That's the thing. That's the thing is like we tend to like get in our head and out of our body. Yeah. And then we kind of like we lose touch with our physical reality. And reality is much different than the reality we create here in our head.

Oh, it's so warped. It's crazily warped. And our imagination is our blessing and our curse. The blessing you have is. you have an imagination, you manifest shit. Look with the life you've created. Chase Atlantic, your life, you live an incredible lifestyle. Oh, that imagination can put some dark places.

But it can take you to a dark place. That's why I struggle with is that creativity turns. My head just goes to the most creatively dark places. You could ever imagine that I'm stuck there. It's so strong. So anxiety and thought processes that cause anxiety. So your imagination, I think misdirected is a really dark thing. Nuisance, yeah.

But directed at something that you want is really powerful because people with a kind of unhinged imagination like you that have a completely, they're not holding it back. So a lot of people, I think, hold themselves back. They can't make you sad to as well on it some right. Yeah. They constrict their imagination to own. only be to the present moment or what the reality that they've chosen to kind of accept dictates what's possible. But the imagination that's untethered can really actually be the most powerful to me. It creates the future life. That same imagination though,

untethered, directed at the wrong thing gets dark. Right? So, So we have to kind of learn how to drive the crazy, like we have to learn how to fly the thing. And we have to be able to, I had to learn this over two decades. I had to learn when my imagination was going down a bad place. And I still have to work on it, right? But my question. Look where I got you guys though. It's amazing.

Just like you're a third of Chase Atlantic's success. And you represent a very critical thing in the group. for me anyways, and to everyone. But what I'm saying is when I look at Chase Atlantic and I look at the group, everyone in it contributes something unique that only I could. Yeah.

I like, look at, for you, I see it's unfiltered, it's raw and it's that unmathed imagination that can run wild and it can be really good and it can be really bad and you're in a corner shaking. going, what the fuck, where are we? So that, as bad as that is to experience, it contributes something that makes the group and the art and the whole thing extremely special and extremely, it's like art. It's like when you look at like a Jackson Pollock or you look at like, you know,

when you look at art that was not constructed. I'm going to pretend I know that I'm sorry. It's just, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's completely free art that is not, it's not design based in the sense of like, perfect lines. Yeah. It's, it's wild. You know what's tricky though, I will say this. Colorful. It's having that, you know, that creativity there and that, that chaos of creativity and being unfiltered, right?

But then I have really bad OCD. and I'm a perfectionist. So like I also will cancel out my creativity by trying to perfect every little thing, which actually helps a lot for the mixing side of things. Don't you think the OCD is probably wouldn't you guess? But it conflicts that. And then sometimes it kills the creativity. And then it's like a little battle that goes on and I get really frustrated by it.

It's like what am I? Wouldn't you guess though that the wildfire of creativity that's like kind of burning in your mind? right that your physical brain is trying to make sense of it and get control of it so it causes you to have obsessive compulsive

tendencies yeah because I have because you want to feel control yeah because you don't feel in control because you're your there's a part of you that you will never be able to necessarily fully control which is the creativity and like what if like the creativity is something you've been wrestling with longer like for your whole life.

You're my new therapist by the way. Thank you very much. But I'm just saying like don't what. It's very true. Doesn't that make sense? I think control. Control is so important when you really don't have control of your creativity. I, you know, I sit there.

My mind always goes to the darkest places, which can be great for comedy sometimes. Sometimes it gets you in a lot of trouble. And you never really mean anything like that. But, like, yeah, I think the OCD kicks in and tries to control that. Try to control it. It's a natural reaction, right? Yeah. So it seems like it makes sense to me.

Therefore, I would, like, love my OCD and try to just enjoy the little things about my OCD that, like, if I like to keep that shelf completely perfect and I like to make sure this. I have a thing with seating. I have OCD too. So just so you know, this is the only reason why I can share. Seating. Seating. like when I go into a restaurant where we sit oh you like the fung shui and like

the make sure it's the right spot the people around you me and my wife have a she has had to deal with this my whole our whole relationship 16 years we'll go into a restaurant they'll seat us and I'll go she's like hon this is fine the seat's fine you don't need to we don't need to move and I'm like yeah I don't

like it hon we got to move we need to sit over there because and I have some reason to my head and I never know why because of the where the room is where my backs to people or like I feel like anxious about where we're sitting. I couldn't agree more because I get social anxiety, funnily enough too. And it's become a funny little quirk that like... Did she make fun of you for it now? No, we, she's just a little joby about it.

She's very loving and we've learned how to like 90% of the time we stay where they set us now. Oh, you're working on it. You're changing up the script. 90%, 80%, 80%. 80% 8 out of 10 times. But you actually know the map of the restaurant. You called them in advance. Be like, yeah, I'll sit where they tell us to sit. Well, there's a few restaurants where they know this table and that's the one we like.

And I'm like, well, why are we on? She's like, what's going on, honey? And I'm like, we're not at our table. This is not our table. She's like, hon, it's fine. You know, like, it's like a little thing. But it's been a long time. She's been with.

So now it's gotten, I've gotten, because I'm aware of it. And I'm being like, it's just fucking weird. And it's a quirk that I have. As soon as you're aware of it too, it becomes more prominent too. And then... Do you think it's because you want to protect as well? Probably... It sounds really...

It's like having your back to, like, people gives me a lot of anxiety. I also had, like, a lot of trauma as a kid. So I think there's something about safety, something about anyways. And then when I'm anxious about work, if I'm stressed, my OCD kicks up in certain spots. Yeah. And so... But she's really, really cool about it. We laugh about it.

It's good. you can laugh about it. And we both, but I'm like, sorry, hon. Do you make little noises or like little like, no,

no, like, because I can share with her. Do you rub the eyes or like the face? Like, no, no. But I,

I just can't, like, like, focus on the dinner yet until I'm, like, settled. And then we've got to a place

where I can just be like, I'm sorry, hon, I cannot fucking sit at this table. We need to move or we need to leave. And she's like, okay, then just go and tell them.

And I'll be like, okay, I'll be right back. And then I'll go, hold on I'll work it. And then I have to go talk to the poor person who doesn't give a fuck where I'm sitting. And it's just working. God bless them. Yeah.

Like, I got to add one more thing to their day. Yeah. I go, I'm really sorry. Would you mind if we switch? And most of the time is like, yeah, like, who fucking cares? You could have been there with us. But it's a big deal on your head because you'd be working up the cars to do it. So that is the experience, right, that you have that, like, I still.

I have those restaurant experiences. I have the public experiences. I do the same thing with my partner now. I'm like... But I don't fight it. I try to contain it. I go... Yeah.

To contain it. But then I'm... But it's funny that you're saying that with Nicole too. Like, you work on it. You talk about it now. Yeah, I go... It's a funny thing, really. And she's like, okay, hon.

And like... You go laugh at it. And now it's gotten to 80 to 90% of the time. Now the conversation is just which seat I'm going to sit in instead of like, we're at the wrong table. And I realize that it's complete bullshit. it's all in my head. Doesn't matter where I sit. Yeah.

But in my emotional experience, for whatever reason, I'm just like, and that's just that one example of probably like 10 little things that I have that, like, she is aware of and we laugh about it most of the time. That's social anxiety too, though, I think. A little bit of, absolutely. And, you know, you've had such a successful career. I think there's probably times where you've been at places where you did want to hire a little bit, you know what I mean?

Like, maybe like, just so you don't, like, get interrupted for you. Not that you don't want to be like rude or anything, but you just don't have the capacity, like the energy in YouTube. I also think artists are put on a brave face all the time. I think artists and I was an artist first and it'll always be an artist first. Yeah. So I'll always like feel the experience when I watch another artist do something good or bad. I always feel it.

Feel when they're going through something bad or when they're winning something or having a great experience. I always feel it. Artists, I think I think we're shy. I think we're generally shy. Yeah. And I think we want attention, affection, validation, all the things that like fame and stuff bring you. But I think because maybe we didn't know how to get it when we were younger.

Too much, yeah. Maybe, I don't know. It's so true. I had a great conversation with, just before I went back to Australia last year, I kind of settled down after I came off my meds and stuff. and I had a beautiful conversation with Josh, actually. Josh is the best. He's the best. I was talking about you guys, you know, as brothers as well.

And he was saying, you know, he got to at the beginning, as most people would think, like, maybe I want to be like in the limelight as well. Like maybe I'm jealous. And then he said, you realize very quickly that he was very happy in himself in the world. And, you know. And then we're jealous of him sometimes. Exactly. He's like pretty much what he said, not in a bad way, like in a really nice.

way and I went oh that's fair he's like you know you always kind of put us to put on like a brave face and smile or be nice no matter what and it's not that bad I'm making it sound a bit dramatic no it's that you know there's the upside and there's the downside there's always going to be but you don't get usually a choice after the after you sign with like it's like you're saying I think he's mentioned subway right he's like you can go to subway put on the shirt you you're nice to people then as soon as you take it off it doesn't matter anymore yep like you can just do whatever you want but as soon as you say my job is you know you know My job is Joel Madden.

Then for the public, you pretty much have to keep that subway show on. And their idea of you. Joe Madden showed on because you're pretty much in the work as long as you're in the, in the, in the, in the. Absolutely. And I think we're all guilty of it. Yeah. By the way, we're all human. Our idea of people, it gets somehow seared into our brain.

It's not like we asked it to be seared into our brain. So when someone gets famous and they get, and they get big for something, we, we develop an understanding of that person as like a symbol in our brain, I think. This is what I think. No, I believe that. And it's stuck like that forever. So there's a whole group of people that if they recognize you, it's because the image of you is seared in their brain for some. It's associated with something. And then they associate you with that. And then when they, when they come up to you or they interact with you, a lot of them are, especially like when I think fame gets to a pop level, it's different. than a Chase Atlantic fan will see you and have an experience to share or a lyric or a moment

different than like some housewife that saw you in a tabloid or read something and established an idea of you that's not anything to do with your art. And then they come up and interact with you in the world and it's not like a, it's not a very quality interaction. It's like a very, it's kind of a very like top line idea of maybe something about you. And that one time would be fine or two times it would be fine. But over time, I think it would start, it starts to create this kind of like confrontational relationship that people have with people. See, I personally feel like I remove myself from it. Yeah. in enough ways that like I get to have a pretty true quiet life most of the time.

Yeah, you can definitely do it. You know, some people don't want that though. Some people want to be in the line line, I feel like. Which is fine. By the way, some people, I think some people have, I think it's a little bit of a drug in a way. 100%. Some people have an addiction to it. I don't really judge any of it.

I have lots of different friends who are like varying levels of success at different things. And like, they all are doing fine. Yeah. And they all deal with it in their own ways. But I do think that you have to give yourself the space to develop your own understanding, your own relationship with that part of it. But like you said before, the thing is we are doing well, but we position ourselves in a way where we're not necessarily in the limelight all the time either.

I think for Chase Atlantic, it's like a brand too. And it's the music that speaks for itself. So it is nice to have that recognition. that's what I was going to talk about and that little bit of ego boost because that's kind of what you're looking for just like some sort of love or attention in a way positively though

Yeah Yeah we all need that And it can be very overwhelming And but at the same time Like You know I can I pretty much live a fairly Quiet life too

Where I don't Yeah you are very quiet And not reclusive I'm not like celebrities or anything Like I can definitely walk around the street And be fine No one's really going to recognize me or anything Mitchell's braids definitely sent them apart a little bit.

I think you guys are in that sweet spot. Yeah. Musicians love you, fans love you, and you're, like, you're obviously, but you're still, whether you want to admit it or not, you're still dealing with the energy of people crying in, criticizing, commenting. internet sucks so the internet but but it's it's a like in a blessing and a curse the internet how you can distribute your music it's also what saved us during covid though yeah but then also the curse of the the faceless nameless uh voices i think that's dying down finally though you know i think in the world i think the world's that kind of like done with that people people are getting past the waves of like unfounded just people going after people yeah all that being said all i'm saying

you can take it is flattery though really like at least Lisa speaking about you. All I'm saying is is that back to where we started with you, creativity. Yeah. You know, you're wired to be a little anxious. You're wired to be a little ADD, OCD, all the things that come with that wiring. Yeah. And then you add in the pressure of the outside, whether it's the, you know, just as many fans

you guys have, which you have tens of millions, whether you realize it or not. You have tens of millions of fans. Whether you want to admit it or realize it or accept it, you have tens of millions of fans around the world. That's where you guys are at. Let's call it 20 million. 20 million fans around the world. People that know your music and like it. Right. Now, in my day, that was the equivalent of 20 million albums or singles or T-shirts. Now it's not. Now it's people streaming. It's people on YouTube. It's people on Pandora.

It's people on Apple. All these different platforms. And I don't even think that they've actually been able to get the metrics all the way right yet of like the impact of an artist. It's not just the number of streams. It's living out beyond that. Yeah. But when you look at like, when you look at the where you guys are at today, you have this big fan base. Yeah.

So just as many people that like your band, there becomes the people that are aware of it and maybe they don't like it or maybe they they're just bored or whatever. All that pressure, love, hate, energy, energy pointed at you, the dreams you still have to reach even further. Yeah. To create even more to outdo yourself. That pressure, that pressure. And then you're already set up to be a little anxious. OCD, ADD. Then you do no sleep.

Now go on sleep. No this. Now, throw all that in there. You don't even realize you're medicating, right? You're having your drink or whatever. You're trying to get your mind off because you're not waking up going, wow, I have all this this pressure on me. I have this, this, this.

You're not having this conversation. I said like two and a half hours last night. Right. You're just getting up. Yeah. Being a human. You go to do your show. And it's what you notice.

I feel normal during the day. You have a couple drinks. You want to let some. steam off, you're on stage, you might be a little nervous about going on stage. All of it balls up into this big ball of all this crazy. Don't you think you're going to have a breakdown every now and then? Yeah, I've been naive to it until, as of recently. I've definitely had a couple of them in the last, like, especially when COVID hit, you know,

that just went, everyone went crazy in that period. But, yeah, it's definitely, there's definitely, like, ways to handle it better, even though it. Of course, but, like, that's, like, that's. All of us. But I'm very aware of now, like, how quickly it can turn to a slippery slope. You don't even realize until you look back at it when you're back home and you go, was that that guy? Yeah, but don't you think it takes a few years to learn how to drive the thing?

Yeah. Yeah. And don't you think your experience has been pretty true to that? Like, when I watch you from the outside, I go, you suffer in your own way. Mitchell suffers in his own way. And Christian suffers in his own way. He's Christian stressed about this. Mitchell's dealing with this, you all, but don't you think when I just, I just outlined probably five of, I could add five more in.

Family relationships. I could add. Moving houses, trying to find a house, moving houses. All while trying to do tours and then you got to get the tour right. You got to get all the stuff right for the tour. Something goes wrong. And the merchant do this and the thing and this and things go wrong. And then they cancel the Brazil thing.

And then they do the thing. All the stuff that. And on top of that, having the control. And then having fillets, you still have control. You want to have control of like, even like, even like of, I guess, in an artistic form. Like you, we want to be like writing, producing and mixing our own albums. We could like delegate a bit more, but we don't want to.

No, but you guys. And we add that pressure. And then we design our own stages, you know, and we like do like a lot of the visuals for the stage. Yeah. But that is to me what makes Chase Atlantic Chase Atlantic. Yeah. Right.

So I'm not saying you guys are complaining about any of it. We just like to add more stress for us, pretty much. But I don't think you look at it more stress. I think it's just a need to do it. But I think that, like, what I'm just saying to you, it's not that I ever hear you guys even complain. What I'm saying is from the outside. Oh, thank you. From the outside, watching you guys do this together.

It takes all your effort. And anyone listening that's trying to do something great, that's trying to achieve things, I promise you this. You guys are living proof. I'm living proof. I went through it. Yeah. It takes all your effort all the time and the entire time you're doing it, you're asking yourself, can I do this? Is this going to happen? Are we going to make it? I can't live unless I do it my way and I execute my vision and all of it takes all you have. Don't you think and you're constantly pushing yourself right to the edge every time. Yeah, I was about to say whoever's listening, like, we don't, we're not very vocal about it as much as, you know.

But no, because you guys aren't going to be because you're just living and breathing and being you. But if you're not careful, it can burn you out. And like, I've been very close to that. Right. I've been too close to the sun because of that. Right. But sometimes you just got to take a knee.

Yeah. And then you get back up tomorrow. Listen, if I was a Chase Atlantic fan listening right now to the three of you guys in this three-part series, I become more a fan because you guys aren't. aren't, you guys are just, you guys are always just yourselves, you're true to yourselves. It's really nice to hear a band that loves what they do and they're always going to push it to the limit and try to do their best. Quickly though, I wanted to say that like I am looking forward to this album, though, making

this album. Well, it feels like you're charged up now. I'm getting the, yeah, I'm getting the batteries recharged in life and order. But I want to make an album that's, you know, even more impactful than the last and the one before that. You know how it goes. The last one was my favorite yet. Oh, thank you.

But you got to start playing Friends Live. Friends Live, I think we do. Or do we stop that? You don't play it. Sometimes you don't play it. It makes me... It made me tired. I forgot.

I'm sorry. Talk to Christian about that, actually. Did you tell Christian? He's the guy that'll tell you. We're not putting it on that. Christian told me he wants to. What? He changed his mind?

Yeah. Oh, he's crazy. You're making me look bad now. You guys play it sometimes. But when you go to Brazil, you have to play it. 100%. I'm down to play it. I think there was one more thing I wanted to say too.

I was talking about you yesterday. I got a quick last minute trim for this podcast because I wanted to get rid of the smurf hair. I like it. I'm about to turn 30. I'm getting the blue right out of it. I like it. But I was talking about you because I think she just moved from Canada. She's working in a salon and she's like, said, she talked about the podcast and who are doing it with.

And I said, oh, it's my manager, Joel. And then, like, how did you meet him? And I was just thinking back to it was kind of sweet yesterday. You were in Australia, you're on Twitter about to start this beautiful company up as we've grown together and you slid into my DMs. That was it.

Yeah. Done. Done deal. We hung out and it was sick. Here we are. The energy was there. But it just reminded me. I didn't even...

It's the best sliding into the DMs of my life. Yeah. Not just any other girlfriend. It's just me. No. You guys changed my life in a lot of ways. That's what I love.

It wasn't the sliding in the part. It was the fact that when we finally met, that we actually formed a relationship and memories together. It's like family. It's very hard to explain, but like I haven't dreamed, you know, obviously I know the dream you guys have because when I was 15 and I started Good Charlotte with my brother and Billy and Paul and, you know, as a band, we're still together. We're still like a family.

Yeah. We survived together. You guys definitely did like, you played it really well. Like, you did everything that I think we believe into. Yeah, we survived together. We grew up together. We gave everything to this band together, and we love each other beyond the, we love each other beyond the band, beyond the music. It's really nice to see you guys like now and how your relationship.

But I see that with you guys. But also, like, I don't know if I've wanted other people. I don't know if I've wanted success so bad as I did when I was trying to make it with Good Charlotte. 100% than how I want you guys to succeed. Oh, sorry. Oh, thank you, man. And how I want, like, the bands we get to know

and the bands that MDDN gets to work with. And MDDN is a company, like the people that work at MDN, like, are good people. Yeah. And I don't know if I want a group to succeed so bad as I do. this group because Navid is a Navi he's like the silent member of the band almost

Yeah Like so like you're So when you win Personally I feel like I won And thank you for believing us You know what I mean like I remember the days When people are like oh great Oh good luck for that all

Good luck Yeah And people don't mean it like they can't see it They can't believe it It's a good thing because like you saw that, which is beautiful. And it sucks at other people can't sometimes. But at the same time, if everyone could see it,

then there'd be a bunch of people running around killing it. So it kind of desaturates the market a little bit. Yeah. And I also think, like, the proof was in your catalog. And when you go back and you listen to all those songs, they still stand up. Where did you pick up the sacks? What music did you hear that made you want to do sacks?

No, just in primary school, the teacher made us try a couple of instruments that, you seem better on that one. And then it's stuck. I got to the top level of classical music. Like, as professional, as you go, like, sheet music, like, really fast, like, everything, theory as well. And then I completely just went, I don't want to know about it.

So I spent four years of raising that for my memory and then picked it back up for Chase's Landing. I mean, I could probably pick up a tenor instead of an alto and make some jazzier sounds and a bit more edgy. And then I was, like, starting from scratch again. And now I just used as a tool for expression rather than technicality. Yeah, it would be nice if I practice my parts before going on tour a little bit more, which I will from now on. But yeah, for me, it's just expression and feel now.

Because I can hear people play some crazy stuff, but I'm like, why would you, like, hit the note like that, like, or not bend it or like not do a growl there or something like that? It's like you're kind of just playing the stock standard version of the song. For me, it's just a yeah, it's an expression tool rather than a technical, like, jazz tool. But that being said, this would be cool to know a little bit of jazz. It's pretty crazy. When I play the wrong notes, I say it's jazz. Because jazz has every note, right? And Pat just looks at me and goes.

Jazz fusion. It's jazz fusion. I feel like you guys represent Australia really well. I think you represent Australian music in a really interesting way. Thank you. It's just different. Yeah. And when you, but the band checks out, when you see you live, when you check your

musician, you know, your musicianship, when you check your songwriting, your production skills, you know for Chase Atlantic as an entity that does all of it in-house the production, the recording, the writing, the directing, all of it. So I feel like you guys have that work ethic and the humility, that kind of Aussie humility of just doing, getting the job done and doing it and kind of keeping you guys. You know, you guys are all truly really Aussie. I mean, all the way up to how you go on stage, to how you represent yourselves in the world. Maybe do the Ozzy, Ozzy, Ozzy chain. Of course. Like, that's it.

You guys are in a lot of ways you're as Aussie as it gets. In other ways, you're like a new, different version of Australian music. But I love how you guys represent yourselves and how you represent where you're from. How good did it feel to go back to Australia and sell out all those shows and have that experience in the place you started. How good did that feel? Well, a little bit of a lengthier answer, but, you know, being younger, you're always a little bit more cocky and naive.

Yeah. And we went, there wasn't a lot happening in the industry in Australia at the time, especially for what we were doing. Right. And I'm not trying to hate on it, but it wasn't for us. And we're like, we got to get out of here, man. But at that point. And at that point, yeah, exactly.

And at that point, you know, I feel like our fans are younger. to and there was a little bit of tall poppy syndrome where for a fair few years they were like why would they like go to america like screw them like no go see chastatic in austria but then it like just picked up like just before covert here a little bit and i started seeing other artists i know much doing similar things and i mean then realizing other artists had been doing cool things without me not noticing because i was young and naive yeah and then i started again like a little bit of respect again like for everything a little bit more respect because i always had the respect um But still I was like, yeah, no, I still need to be in America.

I think we should keep doing stuff like for the whole world. You know what I mean? Well, you've built out a global brand that is, you know, America and the UK, the things that you're doing around the world. It is central to, you know, you guys have a huge fan base in South America and Brazil. You have a huge fan base in Europe. Yeah. There is a little bit of a central.

Australia is an island far away. Yeah. It's a little bit tough and isolating out there. You could say, though, that for Chase Atlantic to exist in what you guys have to do and where you operate, it makes sense for you to be in America. Yeah. But I'm proud to be in Australian. I wouldn't change that. And going home and doing those big sold out shows, I think, would have been a nice moment.

Yeah, that was beautiful. Just knowing that, like, they sold out so quickly to it. And I was like, damn, this is actually really cool. And for anyone listening that is a Chase Atlantic fan around the world, that doesn't know what tall poppy syndrome is. It's very kind of old school Australian. It's been around forever. But basically, no, yeah, tall poppy syndrome is kind of a thing they talk about a lot in Australia where they have a tendency. You think you're better than me. You'd had to leave to go somewhere else. Is this idea that if an Australian goes out and has success, the Australia or the

the culture will chop you down. Yeah, screw them. Why should I care about them? They abandon us anyway. Right. Or just to make sure you don't think you're better than us. Yeah, you're not better than us. Listen.

They're a humble country. We're a humble country. Humble country. Also, I understand as an Australian, see, I haven't had to deal with that because I'm not from Australia. Yeah. So, but I can understand how it would be frustrated. But they treat you very down to earth.

Like, very like, they try and be very, uh. I feel like I may have had a tall poppy moment or to when I was there a lot. Yeah. And they were like like, but that being said, I, maybe I'm just like, I mean, you're going to get it from like anywhere in the world. Maybe I just love Australia and I wanted to be Australian and I was imagining it. But what I'm saying is as though even though it would be hard to deal with coming from the

place you're from. And I think that every place does that a little bit. You could say that Maryland does that a little bit. Yeah. You could say that any local place like you could. But as hard as it might be to deal with. with when you're going through it, when you're experiencing it, it does give you a bit of like toughness.

It's tough love. And it humbles you, whether you like it or not, you kind of have to deal with it because you have to go home. It keeps you grounded as well, though. So it's not necessarily a terror, not the worst thing. No, it's not. It can be like very disappointing, especially when you're trying to make it and you haven't quite made it yet.

But, you know, just to sell out like the Horn Bavillion and stuff like that. But what doesn't kill you makes you, Exactly. And it kind of makes the acceptance going back that much more sweet because you know where it like all started. I mean, everything started in Australia anyway. That's how we all started there. So we met. Yeah, exactly. And we made the music near the whole time. Parents bedroom out. Saw you guys play that show. It was a good show. Like 150 kids there. Put on ourself. I remember that. I was like, stressed. I said, we need to make sure this is all good, blah, blah. And then that girl had a see show. And I was like, oh, no.

You guys had all the flashing lights and a girl had a seizure. I was trying to impress you guys. And I was like, damn it. It was great. Though, it was a great show. Obviously, the girl was okay. Yeah, yeah, of course. And we sent her, we checked her in the hospital, gave her flowers and stuff like that.

We do care. You always do that. Very much. It was just like a, it was great. Thanks, Clinton. Thank you so much for having me. Happy Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day.

Love you. Love you. Thank you for the Rose. You're welcome. All right, guys. All right, guys. I hope you guys enjoyed that. Next week, Part 3, Chase Atlantic, I'll be speaking to Mitchell Cave.