Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Chet Hanks

Episode Date: July 8, 2026

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Chet Hanks. Hanks' acting career began in the late 2000s and soon bloomed into a series of appearances on hit TV shows, including Empire, Atlanta, and Shameless (most recently, he’s made headlines for living in an RV out in Nashville while promoting a new season of the Netflix comedy Running Point). Stopping by the Artist Friendly studio, he discusses rebuilding his life through gratitude, the intricacies of growing up in the spotlight, and finding balance between acting and making music with his band, Something Out West. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Janice Leary, Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin Director/Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman ------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Good Charlotte. Good Charlotte is a band I started when I was 16 with my brother, and it is the reason I'm sitting here today. Thank you, Good Charlotte. We're going on tour July 25th through August 30th, Good Charlotte and a binge sevenfold touring in the U.S. Starting July 25th, Thunder Ridge Nature Arena in Ridgedale, Missouri, an ending at BMO Stadium in Los Angeles, California on August 30th.

If you are in the UK or Europe, coming to you this November. November 8th, we are in Stockholm, Sweden. November 11th, we're in Munich, Germany. November 13th, we're in Brussels, Belgium. November 14th, Dusseldorf, Germany. In November 16th, we're in Amsterdam. November 17th, Paris, France.

November 19th, London, UK. November 20th, Manchester, UK. Tickets are on sale now. We will see you at the show. That was just the entry ticket that you had to understand before you can understand the next thing. And it was that for 12 hours. That's amazing. Until you get to the absolute center, the center, the nucleus of what it is that it's trying to teach you.

And for me, it was you, just like every single fucking person walking this earth at your core are a sweet, innocent child. And somewhere along the lines, that child was warped. Twisted. Was twisted and warped to hide that sweetness, to hide that innocence. Yeah. Because you felt that innocence was making you vulnerable to be a victim. You were made to feel ashamed. You were made to feel.

Because at some point, and it could be the most minor thing. It could be a big traumatic thing. It could be the most minor, minuscule fucking thing. But it wasn't miniscule. to you at the time. And it caused you, and it caused that innocence for you to fucking build walls around it and hide it and even convince yourself that it didn't even exist. That's not who you are.

Who you are is the fucking person that needs to, you know, keep those walls up, build those walls and maintain those walls. And that, being that person over so many years is what has caused you to collect so much pain, so much pain from having to be that. But then it shows you all of that is bullshit. That's not who you are. Who you are is that kid, is that innocent kid. And guess what? Now, because you know that, what are you going to do with it? Now you can open your eyes and look at it. And every single person you come across recognize who they are, that they're the same exact way. We're rolling here?

Yeah. We're rolling? Nice. You guys got to tell me action, you know? Action. Yeah, all right, cool. I am an actor, a film, and the stage. Artiste, yeah.

Artiste. I dove in a little bit. I didn't want to dig in too much. I've been aware of you, obviously. I know who you are. But I haven't, like, dug in. You know what I mean? Yeah.

But it's not because I'm not interested. It's just because I have two kids. You don't dig, dude. You got a life, yeah. But I've seen you, and I'm like, oh, cool. You know, like, oh, he's cool. He's a character. Yeah.

And then I kind of came to it today. Came to the headline. Which one? About you. Which one? It's a lot. The world wants you to be who they want you to be. Yeah.

And Chet Hanks is going to be who Chet Hanks is going to be. If not you, then who, you know? Yes. Every now and then I see someone stand up for themselves. And I go, Fuck, fuck yeah. And the more I dug into you, the more I see you live that way. Thanks, dude.

In like a very, in a very cool, in a very nice way. Thank you. I see you. I don't see, you're not a mean guy. You don't let the meanness of the world. I'm not saying this from a perspective of like, I think you're always standing up for yourself. But I've seen you in moments. People try to make you explain yourself and you don't always, you don't.

You know what I mean? Right. Because you don't have to. Right. Yeah. It's more fun just to troll them. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Which is also a strength. Because they're not going to understand anyway. Yeah. Even if you did explain it perfectly, they're still going to be adversarial. Yeah, because that's all they want to be. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, I think it's a matter like just knowing who you're talking to. Yeah.

Like reading the room, knowing your audience. And if you know that the audience is not your crowd, just fuck with them. Yeah. You know? Because then your crowd will see that and then they'll be like, you'll get more of them. Yeah. I feel like my crowd is kind of like people that know exactly what I'm doing. And they get it.

Like they're in on the joke. Right. You know. Yeah. I got it as well. So I guess I became one of your crowd. Hell yeah. Yeah.

Well, I've been one of your crowd since I was a kid. Yeah. It was great, man. Hell yeah. Yeah. How's the mobile home? So sick. I love it.

It's so sick. Yeah. I love it. It's like, I just love the feeling of like freedom. Total freedom. You know, I, that to me is, I realize like that, that's the most important thing in life for me, hands down. Why? It's just because of how I'm wired.

Like, I feel like it's kind of like a personality type, you know. But freedom, ultimately, if I had to narrow it down, that's the most important thing in life for me. I feel the same way. Yeah. But I only feel that way because I didn't feel. free. Right. A hundred percent. Yeah. I didn't know I could be free. Exactly. Yeah. It definitely, it definitely has to go. That definitely has to be it, you know, like that's the reason. Yeah. I always tell people when they're going through something hard. First and foremost, I always start with gratitude.

I'm healthy. I'm here. I'm alive. My kids are healthy. Thank you for these problems. These are good problems. Right. If you're in good health and your loved ones are in good health, that's all that matters. like everything else is can be dealt with yes you know yeah I just feel like gratitude is the key to unlocking everything yeah because if you're not grateful

or at least you could have a shitty job that you hate but if you're not at least grateful in that shitty job for your health for your loved ones then if you don't learn the importance of gratitude when you don't have shit

you're not going to learn it if you get all the shit. And even if you get all the shit, if you're still, if you never learned why you have to be grateful, then it won't even fucking matter and you won't even enjoy it. And then what's the point, right?

It's like how many miserable rich people do you know? A lot of them. How many miserable rich people that have that, that have the fucking live in a hundred million dollar mansion? They hate everyone. A hundred million dollar mansion. That's what they wake up to. They got whatever fucking car they want.

They got yachts. they got whatever. If you're not grateful, if you don't enjoy the simple shit, the simplest shit. If you don't enjoy the sun on your face, a cup of coffee. A cup of coffee in the morning. Oh, wow, that breeze feels nice. What can you enjoy? Then what, then, what's the point of waking up in the mansion?

Yes. Well, I have the mansion. You're not even enjoying the mansion. It's like a bigger cage. And I'm saying that learning to enjoy the simple shit is its own. separate journey than acquiring what you want and getting to where you want to be and doing what you want to do in your career. Two separate journeys. Two separate projects to put in work on. And for me, I kind of feel that I still got a long way to go on what I'm trying to do and what I want

to accomplish in my career and shit. But I did notice that once I learned to truly love the simple shit. It made up my career happen a lot smoother. Like that's actually the game changer that shifted everything in my career. Like once I was like, I didn't have shit. I'm broke. Like I'm fresh out of rehab or whatever. I got nothing going on. No opportunities happening. Nobody's calling my phone. Nobody's fucking, I don't even have an audition. Right. Music, no one gives a fuck about my music. I mean, but I was so grateful to just have a spot, have my bike, wake up in the morning. Wow, it's a beautiful day. I'm going to go for a walk.

Yeah, this is nice. Yeah, I'm going to go for a walk, you know? Yeah. What am I going to do? I'm going to do that. I'll start off by going for a walk. Man, it's a nice day out. When I got to that point, that's when the phone started ringing.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's an energetic thing. Yeah. And I truly believe that. I feel like we are trained to think that we have to hustle and grind to make shit happen. And to some extent that's true. But for me, I can truly say that when I was putting it all on myself, I got to grind.

I got a hustle. I got to think of something. I got to come up with the plan. I got to fucking wait. You know what I mean? I got nowhere. Like it was always just one fucking obstacle after that other. It felt like I was just never making any progress.

When I truly let go and I'm like, like you know what fuck all that i got to just enjoy the simple shit and trust god and what i'm worrying about i give it to god i tell god yo god check this out this is what i'm worrying about i'm stressed about this i don't know what the fuck i'm going to do i don't got to answer i'm giving it to you you deal with it please amen that's when shit started happening do you think that it's something like learning how to be happy yeah 100% Or maybe happy could mean peace or maybe happy could mean. Yeah, I look at it like peace.

Happiness is always comparable to being unhappy. Right. Yeah. I don't feel like happy is as permanent of a state to be in as peace. That's cool. Yeah. I feel like happiness can come and go. But peace, I do believe, and it's in my experience, that you can have perfect peace.

Yeah. You can be in peace constantly all the time. I found that same kind of what you're saying and a different way, right? Because this is what I think anyways. We all start where we start. You start there. I start over there. And I think we're all moving towards something like the same thing we're talking about,

which is like, what is life? Figure it out. What is life? Who am I? Right? Like, what does this mean? And there's a lot of ways you could explain it, whether it's like with spirituality or this or that,

this, but I'm just generalizing it. So we start, I start over there. I'm in Maryland and the sticks over there. You're over here in L.A. He's over there. The journey is something like,

I think if I get over there, I'll be happy. Or I think if I get over there, I'll be somebody. Yeah. I'll matter. Yeah. We didn't realize this we kind of matter back there.

You know, what I mean? The only thing actually in our way was our own feeling of unworthiness. Of ourself. Yeah. And that's it. That's the only thing that's keeping you from moving forward is if you feel like you're not that guy. I can't have that. Like yeah, you know? Yes. And then the journey. If you feel like I got to do this, that and the third and I got to get to this place to feel like I'm that dude. Right. Then you'll never be that dude. Right. To me, sobriety, it's the same process. It's just this getting back to self. Yeah. Where you get, you know, you get back to I want to be in my body. I want to be in my life. I want to be in my mind. Yeah. And I want to be

here. Yeah. And also like what am I like in and into? Like exactly. What is my fucking favorite color? You know what I mean? Like when you take all this shit away, like what the fuck do I'm my what, what am I going to do? What do I want to do today? You know what I mean? Like rediscovering. Yeah, and do you have the calm and the peace and the still? And can you be stoic? Can you just fucking exist here? You know what I mean? And be okay.

And your body without like needing to do a bunch of crazy shit. Like, no, I'm okay. I think I'm okay. I'm just going to stay over here. Yeah. It takes us all a different path to get here. Some people never get there. Some people just get lost in the sauce and they never come back.

Yeah. God bless them. But growing up out here has probably been a, in one way, I think, it could make you crazy it could be confusing and in another way it could be a great teacher you could see all those lessons play out in front of you and you could be like uh i i definitely like i think i picked up on a lot of shit really early not so much with like being exposed to any crazy shit but just in people and in uh social dynamics yeah like micro even like very micro subtle social all the micro transactions yeah yeah hyper aware of those

Super, yeah. From a young age. Yeah, super sharp, I bet. Hyper aware, so hyper aware that it was like over, over, it was like a overload. Yeah. You know, like there's so much information that I'm picking up on, these micro things that I'm aware of that was so overwhelming that the way I dealt with it was just tune it out completely. Because if I didn't shut it off completely, I would be consumed by it. Right.

And that kind of created its own monster. Going back to what you said, like freedom, you know, and that goes back to not feeling free. Well, it's like the circumstances I was born into was like, I didn't feel like I needed to meet the bar. Right. I felt like I had to excel past the bar in order for me to just be, live up to who I thought I should be.

Right. So the bar is ungodly high. Yeah. Right. In order for that to exist, the work had to be done and you watched that work being done your whole life. Yeah. Is that fair to say? For sure. Right. So you saw what that takes. Yeah. And you have that in you. So that's not like something that scares you. You watched it and you learned likely that this is natural. We think we're different, but we're not so different from the environment we grew up in. 100%. And then we struggle to separate ourselves when we grow up. So at some age, 13, 14, 15, everyone's at a different age, but at that age where we start to reject the thing we come from so that we can be apart from it, because that's natural, actually. It's like going back hundreds

of years ago, the young men would go into the woods. You got to go off. Yeah, like you got to go off by yourself. Months and they kill a bear and come back. Yeah. Right. Like, it's very natural to prove yourself. Yeah. And it's very unnatural in the modern world to have a lot of, understanding of what that means. Do you understand? Like it was much more simple when we could just go kill a wolf for a fair. We all have rights of passage. Right.

And so we do other things. Yeah. We get tattoos. I got covered in tattoos. And then I felt like I'm a man now. I love tattoos. I'm not. I don't regret it.

But like it was part of my journey of like, now I'm my own man. Yeah. And then obviously you're out here. So what are you going to do? Oh, how are you going to do? Oh, how are you going to? Right? You know, it's just like a,

so you're living in a world where also like not your inner core support system, but like the world that you go out into every day, whether you're at school or you're fucking there or you're there. This is like L.A., so it's like the town. Like people talk a certain way. It's just like. And so there's all different kinds of messages and pressure you're getting. I think from my perspective of seeing what,

trying to imagine, what would that feel like? Yeah. But I didn't have that. It's the thing. I worry about, like I'm with my own kids. They have two parents in entertainment. Not the biggest thing in the world.

We're not the smallest. But we're working in entertainers essentially. We're doing a lot of stuff. We're entrepreneurs. But at the end of the day, like, we're out in the world. And we're entertaining. And that's our job. When we put food on the table and I try to help them understand it

because I see what you're up against when you're feeling like you're in somebody's shadow. For me, what I realized is it could actually just be in someone's light. You know what I mean? Right. But the world is going to make it feel like a shadow. Well, really what it is is just someone else's identity. Right. It's like, I don't know about your kids or anything, but I think it could be common for like your son or whatever.

If somebody, a complete stranger meets him, you know, their first thought, is it going to be... Who's this guy? Who are you? What are you like? Their first thought, if they know. who he is. Their first thought is just you. They're just imagining you. Right. They're imagining Joel. So getting to getting to know, getting to know it's off the table. Your son is like everything that they're getting to know about him is all in contrast to you. Right. Oh, if he's

similar to you, oh wow, you're just like your dad. If he's not similar to you, oh wow, I wasn't expecting. It's so surprising. You're not at all like your dad. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Like so everything is going through a filter. Yeah. Of, before. your identity is secondary to your identity. So it's like, that's a good explanation. So what that does is like, what it feels like is like just wanting to be like, yo, I'm here. Like, I'm here too.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But me, like who I am is not even a thought in everybody's mind. Right. It's a not, it's an afterthought. Yes. Or if they do have a thought about what you, who you must be. it's negative.

It's, oh, I bet he's such a spoiled little man. I bet he's such a little fucking spoiled, cocky brat. Or,

you know, they're like, oh, oh, let me go fucking. Oh, I could go get next to him. Yeah,

there's that too. I want to get a peek. But see, I'll tell you, it's way easier to pick up on that. You see that shit from a mile. You see that a mile away. Right.

That's easy. It's like, but you don't necessarily. But what you don't understand is, why am I getting this bad fucking vibe from through because you're not thinking that they're even thinking that you like okay you go to the basketball team and the coach is fucking hating on you the coaches yeah and you're like why what am i doing i'm just fucking here you don't you didn't put it together that they already knew you were

coming yeah and you're so-and-so's kid and fuck that kid i know and you would think that like right yeah 100 because a child has a child has a child has a child has nothing to compare its reality to no right and it's like you're like you know right and it's like you you think you'd have the sense to know. A child, you can't tell a fucking, a 12 year old kid is not going to get, you know, being that like, we're not going to pick up on it.

It's not going to be on the receiving end of that negative energy and have the fucking wisdom and self-knowledge to know, oh, wow, this person is just, you know, they got their own fucking weird shit going on within themselves. Yeah, they're just insecure. And they're projecting it on me. You can't, a 12-year-old's not going to know that. A 12-year-old is going to think,

damn, what the fuck is wrong with me? Right. What the fuck is wrong? And when you get that ubiquitously from the whole world, and that's like 95% of the time, the other 5% is like the weird dick riders. Right. And those are easy to spot,

but that's a small minority. That's a small minority. The bulk of it is people with just weird energy, like this weird negativity directed towards you. So the byproduct of that is you internalize it. And it's confusing. I'm saying 100, definitely. confusing but over long periods of time the result for me at least was to internalize it forming the

belief that there is something wrong with me right and that's just like a big shit sandwich you got to eat every day yeah i must just suck yeah i mean like really what it is is just feeling worthless yeah just bro i felt worthless you know what i'm saying people ask me what's it like for you growing up you must you know what i mean they have an idea in their head like of like some like fucking awesome like Yeah, you don't know what I mean you get the guy to Disneyland ding ding ding jives please bring in my croissants like oh you know what I mean like that wasn't like that wasn't it dude and that wasn't it it was like just feeling fucking worthless like feeling like just feeling worthless bro like I'm not laughing at it I know it's funny but no the funny but even the even funnier part and this is where that where it becomes it can drive you insane is that nobody. believes that your life isn't. Ding, ding, ding, Jeeves, please come in with the croissant. Nobody.

You could be like, yo, that's not my life at all. Like I don't live like that. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, for sure. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. So it's like, gotcha, got you. So it's like you're getting shitted on by life.

Like you are shitting on yourself and you don't even get the validation for someone to be like, hey, like, I believe you. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So your voice, but you still want to like, be like, yo, like, speak your truth. And when you do, it falls on deaf ears.

Everyone's like, fuck you. Yeah. Fuck you. Oh, you're complaining. Yeah, I bet your life's so fucking tough. Boo-hoo, fuck you. Yeah, yeah. Oh, poor, you know what I mean?

I understand. So it's just like, fuck, dude. Like, do you think that, like, it could drive you fucking. It drives you to drugs. Okay. You know how they say. say pressure makes, pressure makes diamonds. Yeah, the pressure makes the pearl. Yeah, pressure also

bust pipes. You know what I'm saying? And I've definitely, I've had some pipes busted. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Like you like, like you can, you can snap, you know, you can snap and then you have to recollect yourself over and over and over again. Yeah. Snapping and then the recollecting yourself. It's a process and it says it's a cycle over and over and over again until the diamond is formed. You know what I really liked? I liked the, you went on Drew's show.

I love Drew. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, she's such a sweetheart. I liked it. I was like, this is great. I was looking into this stuff, and then you're a good actor.

You're building this like career. It looks like you're having fun. You're like, you're having fun with it. I am. You know what I mean? I'm really having fun. And you bring an energy to a place

that feels like, like genuine. It feels like you're there, you're having a good time. Thank you. It's an important thing when someone shows up, like today you showed up. First of all, like on time with good energy. It brings a lightness to the room and makes people feel like they can talk to you. Sure. And I don't know what you've been through. I don't know, I know you're sober, but I don't know the story, right? When I sit with you, I see, I feel freedom. Thank you. And that's what I think is what do most of us want. We want freedom of different kinds, but it's all freedom. Yeah.

And what a better feeling than to not feel need? Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. How old are you? 35. Oh, you're young. So good.

You're an old 35. Experienced. You probably feel like you're like 50. My fucking body feels 50. Yeah. Bro, I remember when the internet was invented. Yeah. I remember a large portion of my life was spent before the internet existed.

Yeah. I remember it. I was old enough to remember it. I remember coming down one day and my mom's like typing on a computer and I'm like, what are you doing? She's like, I'm just doing this new thing. It's called email, you know? I'm like, what's that? She's like, well, you know when you send a letter in the mail? And I'm like, yeah, well, she's like, well, this is email. It stands for electronic mail. I can just write someone a message and send it to them. And so I'm doing it on the internet. And I'm like, you know what I mean? It was a new thing, right? Imagine that. Kids now it's they can't even fucking fathom that they wouldn't live without it exactly and this and the internet is such an insular thing. Yeah, you know, and it's so and it changes so fast. I kind of I kind of feel like the internet is the divide whereas like now each generation is its own separate island in the internet. You know what I'm saying? It's like gen Z is going to be is going to be completely different than Gen A. You know what I'm saying? Generation Alpha. The next coming.

next one my is it here yet well yeah my daughter is gen a oh wow like if you're like 10 yeah she's 10 so it's like if you're 10 years old right now you're that that's gonna be jen and my kids are gen z probably yeah 18 16 18 you know but like i feel like the internet is what's dividing all these generations now whereas before there were everything was the same a kid growing up in the 80s wasn't too different than a kid or even the 70s wasn't too different than a kid growing up in the 90s it was It wasn't that far part. It wasn't. We still,

we did the same shit. What'd you do as a kid? You fucking go outside, ride your bike, fucking chase girls, get in a fist fight, go egg someone's house. Play ding-dong ditch.

Like, you know what I mean. Like, that's what kids were doing in the 60s, in the 70s, in the 80s, and then boom,

internet. And it's like each generation is doing its own weird insular thing. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah.

Like, it's not, there isn't a, like, just a common thread. Right. You know what I'm saying? I just kind of trip on that a little bit.

Like I just look at that. It's interesting to me, you know. But also it helps you understand where what you experienced as a kid of the big actor guy who was also reaching something that hadn't been done really before at a time where the world was changing. And again, like now how quickly things get distributed. At the time, it was that version of it. like the movies and shit was, was bigger than they could ever have been

because of the, because of what was new to the world with the way they were distributed and VHS and DVD and all that shit. So you were watching someone go to the moon essentially and probably only five people at the time were probably going to the moon. And the cost of that.

And you're a spot on because like, I'm like just learning about all this shit. It's like my dad was one of like a handful of other actors that would like actually get percentage of the box office. Right. It was a new thing. And that that was unheard of and that it will never happen again. The reason why is because they were making so the studios when VHS came out, the studios were making so much fucking money on selling VHS tapes. Because for the first time in history, people could watch a movie at their home when they wanted. my dad explains me he's like before if you didn't see the movie while it was in theaters

you never saw it you didn't see it ever yeah think about that unless some rich guy was like I'm gonna screen this in my screening room yeah yeah if you didn't go see it while it was there then you never saw it so when VHS came out changed the world it changed everything well and it changed the studios because not only were they cashing in on their current movies that were in theaters but their entire back catalog right like business Billions and billions of dollars. They were making a hand over fist with the VHS. So they were making so much money with the VHS that they didn't even give a shit about the box office.

That was like peanuts. So they would offer certain actors deals where they would be like, for example, I'm just throwing around random numbers. They'd be like, hey, we'll give you a million dollars to be in this movie. Plus. Or no, they'd be like, we'll give you a, you can either do this movie for a million dollars outright, boom. Or we'll give you $500,000 or $200,000. These figures aren't accurate. Whatever.

Yeah. For the sake of the conversation. But we'll give you 40% of the box office. Sheesh. So you want to roll the dice on it? If you think the movie might be a hit, take the lower pay cut. But if it's a hit, then you'll cash out. He was like, when you said one of a handful of people going to the moon, that was it.

I think it was like him, Tom Cruise, and like Jim Carrey. So imagine being the guy who's going to the moon and making these new styles of deals and, oh, shit, it worked. Holy shit I don't know where your dad's from but it's probably from some From Oakland Right so it wasn't like Right and was his dad a movie star

Okay there you go So it's not like it was a given Wasn't like a sure shot I'm just gonna be a movie star He never thought it would happen Right He wasn't even trying to make it happen Exactly

He told me he would have been just as happy Being a nobody actor doing like small plays For like a couple hundred people And he would have been just as happy doing that I believe that. Because that's his love for the craft. I believe that. I'm at a place in my life where I think there's nothing cooler than meeting someone who doesn't have a price with some real qualities versus a perception. That's palpable. That's palpable. That type of energy is palpable when you meet a person with it. Like I think it's about no one was important. Yeah. Like for example,

what do you value? Well, like I can honestly say this right. Like since becoming like more in the public eye and like people knowing who I am and shit and, you know, I'd be outside. It's a humble way of saying you've had. No, but check out. But this is, I just look at it as people know who the fuck I am, you know, on my own merit, you know. And to me, I can honestly say that being in a gas station and someone's like, yo, chat, you're Chad Hanks. And they're coming up to me like genuinely fucking excited. And I take the time.

to be like, what's up, dude? Like, yeah. And give them, to make them feel like they matter, you know. Acknowledge them. And to give them good energy. Yeah. Right. But to give them kindness, right?

That, to me, is more important than being on a red carpet. Yeah. Or winning an award. It's classy. It's important. Yeah. Because you don't know, you don't know what you could have just done. That person could have been on their way to,

blow their fucking head off. Yeah, it's sad. That person could be going through the worst day of their fucking life and be ready to end it. And they just happen to fucking see someone get excited. And you give them back the excitement. You could change some, you could save someone's life. Yeah. You don't know what you're doing. Yeah. You could have just intervened in a life or death situation for a human, for another person. And if it was all just for that one person, it would have been worth it. Even if it's only happens for one. person ever in the course of your life if you did that for one person that is more important

than your acceptance speech right and when you meet people that are like that you can feel it and when you meet people that have lost side of that and they only care about the acceptance speech you can yeah you can and i don't fuck with that yeah and i don't want to be around that and it doesn't fucking matter to me because those people and me have nothing in fucking common, dude. Yeah. But when I meet the real ones, where I can feel that realness,

that real fucking, that's a cool motherfucker. That's a good motherfucker. That is the shit. Like, I love that. You know why? Because I've met people,

because I've met a lot of people that fall into both categories. Yeah. I can tell you who they are. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. But check this out. And whichever one they are,

you never forget it. Yeah, you can't unsee it. And you know what? the people that fall into the the lame category it's like they can do no right yes yes in terms of whatever they're in terms of whatever they never want to be in the lame category and on the flip side and on the flip side the people that it fall into the real they could never do any wrong right right right give a fuck what you know what mistake you mean you know what you know that's my guy yeah for life writing for him.

It's because he had one interaction with me where he took the time to be like, what's up? Yeah, he was real. Yeah. You never forget that. And what's important to me with any fame or success that comes my way

is making sure that every fucking person I meet remembers me as that guy. Yeah, dude. That is the biggest flex and the only thing that matters that comes with any of this shit. in terms of fame. And as far as success go,

I just want to be able to live my life how I want. And I don't need flashy shit. I don't need to fucking, I don't need to show off. I just want to be free to do what the fuck I want, take care of my people

and not answer to anybody. I kind of knew that though. I kind of see that. You could kind of tell right away with something about it. And everything else is just, is just icing on the cake. Like,

you know how you said? Like it looks like I'm having fun. Yeah. I am. Yeah. You want to know why? Because this shit is a fucking cakewalk, bro. Yeah. What? What I'm supposed to, I'm supposed to be worried about what? I'm supposed to be worried about, did I do good in this

scene? Yes. Was I good enough? Yeah. Did you like? Do they like me? Is that what I'm supposed to be worried about? Because I've been through shit. Yeah. That was really worrisome. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Yes. That was, that I was where I was, where I was really afraid. Yes.

You know what I'm saying? Yes. So it's like, I understand. It's like the stakes. The stakes are lower. When the stakes are lower, that gives you the freedom

to be like, man, I don't give a fuck. You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna let it fly and it goes how it goes. And check that out. When I tapped into that, that's when I was able to perform

at my highest level because that's all they're looking for. Because you're free. That's all they're looking for from the beginning. Right. Is who has the balls to not give a,

fuck to be themselves to just be you know right to just to just do their thing that's what do your fucking thing that's it and that but you know what but that was a long journey to get there that's what i'm saying that was a long journey to get there that's what i'm saying is that's what i saw thank you that's what i seen is someone who's been on a long road a long winding road and never quit on themselves and found who they were but kind of knew who they were do you know what i mean I think you knew. It's a process. But you maybe wrestled with it.

Oh, it was just the evolution of self. Yeah. You know? Like, it was always, people love you. The seed was always there,

but it took a while for it to, you know. But people love you. Thank you. People love you. Like, I told my brother, who's my best friend,

and I have two brothers. We're all very close. It's all we've ever had. And my older brother, who's Josh, who's amazing, amazing guy. If you don't care about quality,

and people, you'll miss him because he's not flashy. He doesn't give about fuck about money. He only cares about stuff that he cares about and it's all good shit. But he's like, he's my best friend and he looks, but the strange thing is he kind of, he looks like me. So me and my twin brother and he has got

blonde hair, but he looks like the third brother. And then so when we were like in our peak of like fame and shit when we were doing the music, when we were like in the world like that, like a pop sensation type thing. And it was like, I remember quite literally in like the 2000s from like 2002 to 2000 fucking I don't know

nine or eight or seven you couldn't get away from us we were like and you and like he'd go places and they'd be like are you he's like no right he had to like deal with that yeah yeah and we're well we were close so he always dealt with it with with love yeah but it was fucking hard sometimes yeah but um when I told him I was talking to you he was so excited he loves you. And that's how one of my gauges is my brother Josh. But I'm just saying you have like people like you. But maybe it didn't always feel like that because the louder voices might have been. Oh yeah. Well, yeah, I just had to, you know, I just had to find my way, dude. You know, I had to find myself find my way. And like I said, the seed was always like the true knowledge of

self was always there. But I had to water it. I had to give it sunshine. I had to give it time. because there were times where I was living, you know, I was running from myself. Yeah. Running, like doing the opposite of what was really me, you know. And that's just a part of the, but that's a part of the process. Yeah.

It's an evolution. It's the evolution of self, you know. I think fatherhood was one of the things for me that at first, I would say, it's not like I became a father. And then I was like, I know who I am now. Yeah. But it like brought me. It kind of pulled me in a direction.

Oh, yeah. Because I did want to show up. For sure. And I kept putting that first. Yeah. And so slowly by surely, it was taking the place of some things that I, yeah. Some habits and some things that I did to hurt myself.

Like, it forces you to grow up. It forces you to grow up. Because you know how you see sometimes. Grow up quicker. You grow up quicker. Yeah. I wasn't so young, but I wasn't so old. I was like 28.

When I had my, when I had my first kid, I was still immature, though. I was very like, because one thing for that'll cure some of this stuff is growing up. You know what I mean? Yeah. And when someone else becomes more important than all this, you know, we could lament over our fathers or our families or our fame or our bad choices or our anything on and on and on when we're thinking about ourselves. But the minute our kid comes in the room, we don't care of a fuck about any of that.

Yeah. It's like, what do you need? What do you need? It's a trip. I'm going to take care of you. The crazy boss apart is like, I'm really good with words, and I can pretty much argue my way out of anything.

Yeah, you're a pretty smart conversationalist. I can argue my way out of anything. Yeah. But the one person who tells me shit that I'm like, I literally can't explain any. Like, you're absolutely right. Like, I can't. Yeah.

I have no retort to that is my daughter. Yeah, mine too. She gives me the realest, she drops the realest, gems on me that are just like it's baffling. So it's like not only just having a kid in the act of being pulled in that direction, but then when you're getting firsthand like lessons. Yeah.

From your kid. Like in honesty, it's like, holy shit. You know what I mean? It's like. It goes fast too, man. She was 10 yesterday. I can't believe it, bro. I mean, she was a fucking newborn baby yesterday, you know?

Yeah. Now she's 10. Like, yeah, it's a trip. Like the parenthood pulled me in the right direction of like actually working on myself and being healthier and being a trying to be a a more whole person. Yeah. Are you sober? Sober is one word that I would say, am I in the program?

No, I'm not. I never ever tried drugs. Really? I was terrified of them. Really? Yeah. Wow. But my dad was a really, and I say, I've said this before.

So I say, that's pretty unbelievable. being a fucking rock star. Never did drugs. That's incredible. I respect. I mean, I smoked weed, I guess. I'm not a big weed smoker. I don't mind it.

I'm not against it. I don't really count weed or like mushrooms as a drug more than like a natural homeopathic possibility. But drugs always scared me. I have a lot of anxiety around like, I have some neurosis and anxiety around like being not in control. Yeah. See, that was my problem is that I liked not being.

in control. Yeah. That was like the thrill of it. You're riding on the motorcycle with your arms out. Yeah. Just rolling the dice. Yeah. Yeah. And then you get older and you have a kid and you're like, oh my God, it's terrifying to think about that. Yeah. My dad was, and I've talked about this before, so I say with a lot of respect because I love my dad. He passed away in 2019. And he was an alcoholic. So he was a really, really lifelong. And he died from it. And I had a lot of addiction around me. I also think that had something to do with my fear of it.

But it also made me have a very conflicted relationship with alcohol. So I didn't know how to drink well. So I never really was a good drinker. and then I would have moments of usually I could track it with anxiety and stress where like I would go kind of nuts with drinking. So I stopped drinking. But I wouldn't say it was something that I needed like a program to do. It's like I just stopped. I'm super supportive of the program for people who get something from it.

Yeah. But I recognize that it's not for everybody. Right. And I think it's unfortunate that, you know, a lot of these programs to people's minds, it's like they're exclusive with some. It's like they have a monopoly on sobriety. Right. It's not the only way to be sober. No, it's not.

I mean, you can literally be sober just by making a fucking decision. And you don't need to go to any fucking thing or support group or meeting or have anybody tell you what the fuck to do and how you need to do this, that and the third in order to be okay or else you're headed for disaster. That's all in your fucking head. If you're the type, you got to recognize if you're the type of person who needs that structure, then get that fucking, get it and keep it. but if you don't vibe with that

don't think that you're kicked out of the fucking boat of the sobriety boat you can be you can get sober and I know sober people who don't go to any fucking meetings or do any of that shit but they're just like I'm done you know I would say you

you could say I'm in that category me too because I'd also say that my I don't define myself as a sober person in the sense of like I thank God don't have to wake up every day and think about drugs or alcohol. It's not a struggle. Yeah. But if you were like, do you do drugs and do you drink? And I'd say, no, I haven't in years. And it's a choice. I live

clean because I feel better. And I do think I grew to it. So I also agree with you. I think that sobriety is something you can achieve. The program has worked really well for a big cross group of people that I think maybe don't have either the resources or the information or the relationships. Right. And some people need a community. Yeah. They need to be a part of a community when they're making that change. And that's great.

Yeah. But some people like in their nature, they don't want a community. Yeah. Like they want to, they're kind of like, you know, they like doing shit off on their own and figuring it out on their own. and that's okay too. So that's my point. Is that it's like if you're,

I'm one of those people. Yeah. So if you're one of those people, yeah. You can still be sober. You could be a part of the club and not be a part of the fucking club. You know what I'm saying?

I like that. Don't limit yourself. You're alone. Because at the day, at the end of the day, it's just a fucking decision you make in your mind. A lot of the times they'll confuse it with no, you have to do this,

this, this order. You know what I mean? Yeah. And if you don't do it to a T, in this. order how we tell you to do it, you are headed for disaster. And it doesn't count.

And that's bullshit. Yeah, yeah. And I fucking disagree with that, dude. I love that you're- I disagree with that. Because if you're telling people, if you don't do it this way, then you're headed for disaster. Why are you planting a seed in their mind of being in disaster when they're good?

Yeah. They're good. Why are you creating that? Why would you create that self-fulfilling prophecy to a vulnerable person when they're at a crossroads? planting seeds of doubt. Yeah. Why would you do that?

Why wouldn't you just say, hey, check this out. Take this shit one day at a time. At the end of the day, do what's, just fucking do what you got to do. But when you make the decision, stick to it. Stick to it. And if you fall down, get up.

And if you don't stick to it, it's good. It's all right. You can come back in any time. And maybe this time can be the time that you stick to it. And just chill the fuck out. Just chill out. That's what I needed to hear. People used to tell me that all the time.

Dude, can you just chill? That's my older brother used to tell me. He'd be like, one day I was like, the only kid, he was like, dude, check this out. One day you're going to wake up and you're just going to, you're just going to learn how to chill the fuck out. Yeah. And when he told me that, I had no idea what he was talking about because I couldn't even fathom that. I was like, what just, when people used to be like, you know, peace, I had no idea what that meant. When people were like, you know, like, be at peace.

I literally like, I'm saying like the word peace, it's. definition did not register in my mind you couldn't kind of grasp it i didn't like that's i was literally like that is just an empty word yeah i did not understand what it meant to be at peace or to have peace just an empty fucking word for a long fucking time dude and now that is that's that's all i have you know i'm saying yes and somewhere in my 30s around your age was where i finally got there but i was going a therapy and I was like, I have this amazing guy who is more of a teacher and a coach than anything. And it was more, I was starting to actually go, no, no, no, dude. Like, you're actually good enough whether you ever wrote a song. Are you a nice guy? Are you a good friend? Are you a good

dad? Exactly. Do you try your best? That's what matters. Yeah. Like, can you hang out with everyone? If you know the answer of those questions, then that's all that matters. It's like at the end of the day, bro, I had to realize that like, and I realized this with plant medicine. What's plant medicine? Like, I'm talking about specifically Iboga. Ibogaine, Iboga. Oh, Ivigain. That was just in the news, Joe Rogan.

Iwaska. Some, like, really, you know, there's like ayahuasca, Bufo, you know, Iboga, whatever. Is that all the same? No, it's, they're all different. Bufo is like the toad, you know, like you spoke fucking blast off at last. I don't know what that. Yeah. Eboga, what I took is similar to ayahuasca in a sense that.

that you basically are laid out, eyes closed for hours. Okay. But just- Do you go on a trip? Yeah, a big trip. Iboga. Is it true that like people who take it, like it's taking addiction down like-

People with PTSD, combat veterans with PTSD, severe drug addicts, heroin addicts, they take it one time, they never do drugs again. Wow. And I understand why, you know, because I went into it. did this two years ago and iboga is like more intense than iawaska ayahuasca is supposed to be they're both very intense experiences like you throw up yeah yeah and there's a bit of that iawaska they say is like a slightly um more softer experience like a more nurturing experience from from from from what i've

told and iboga is like they call iawasca the grandmother and iboga the grandfather because it's like it smacks you like with like what you're what you're not paying attention to like like the Iowas is more like nurturing, like showing you, kind of coaxing you along, easing you along with what it's trying to teach you. Ebo is like, check it out. This is what's up. You know what I mean? This is what you're not seeing, right?

So I. It shows you. Yeah. Whether, whether you're going to like it or not, whether it's going to be easy to digest or whether it's going to be extremely painful to digest. It's coming through loud and clear, right? And I did it, dude. And like the reason why I did it, like my intention behind it was because I wanted to be like,

what's my true purpose? Yeah, yeah. Like, what am I supposed to do in this life? Am I supposed to fucking be an actor? Like, am I supposed to go move to, you know, the Himalayas and be a Shaolin monk? You know what I mean? Like, is there something I'm missing here?

Right. Am I supposed to change the world in some grand, beautiful way and be the leader of some beautiful movement? Like, you know what I mean? And what it showed me was your purpose, motherfucker is to be kind. Wow. That's fucking... Look at all the opportunities to be kind.

Yeah. And even though you're a good guy, you're a good guy, but you're missing so many opportunities to put more kindness in this world. And that is the only fucking thing that's important. The other shit you're thinking about is not important. Focus on that and see how your life changes. That's sick. It changed me.

It really affected my life. Where did you do it? In Spain. Oh, you went to Spain? Mm-hmm. Is it like a certain person or place that you found that does it? So the Iboga plant only grows in one small place in the world. It only grows in one country in Africa, Gabon.

It's in the center of, it's in the central country in Africa, jungle, jungle country. That's the only place in the world that this plant grows. Central African Republic? No, the country's called Gabon. Okay. But it's in like the center of Africa. Okay. It's the only place in the world this fucking plant grows in this one tiny country, right, in the jungle. And there's a, the people there, like the tribe of people, they're called the B-W-I-T-I. Their tradition is called the B-W-I-T tradition. And their entire way of life is based on the taking of this plant. It's like their right of passage to become a member of their society. They speak French in Gabon because they were colonized by the French. The shaman that I did it with was a French guy, a white French guy. that went and lived with these people for 15 years.

Oh, wow. 15 years, he lived with them. And after 15 years, they gave him permission to take it and administer it to Westerners. He has like a little clinic type place. He has like a clinic. They do it in different places. He does it.

I think they do it twice a year, once in Spain, once in Brazil. Oh, wow. Yeah. It was incredible. Is that where Ibogang comes from? Yeah.

Are they simulating it? There are clinics that take Iboga and, you know, isolate it. They refine it down. They refine it into just the Ibegain, like into like a pharmaceutical. Is that a pill or like a injection?

It's a pill. I didn't do that. I took the actual plant. You into the source. But it's the same thing. And the plant is, well, Ibogaine is the compound.

Right. Within the plant that has its psychoactive capabilities. The plant itself is all they do is they take the bark of this fucking plant from the boga tree. They take the bark of it, shave off the, bark and crush the bark into a powder and you eat the powder. That's it. Wow. That's it. No, that's all they do to it. You know, and this shit. So it's a little bit like

mushrooms. Yeah. Some it's in the family of. Yeah. I mean, it's, there's nothing. They don't do anything to it. It's just the way the plan is. But it's from a tree. It's from a tree. It's more like a shrub. But the difference is that, um, on mushrooms, obviously, you're fucking walking around. You're looking at shit. You're laughing. You're giggling. You're whatever thinking or whatever this is you are not flatlined you can't fucking you are like comatose eyes closed can't even fucking open your eyes and fucking move around but do you know you're there in like are you aware of like oh I'm on this stuff I'm in this I'm comatose I can't or do you go somewhere and you come back and you're like what the fuck happened like are you aware of yourself like you take

the stuff and you're like oh it's I'm starting to get sleepy or basically for like you Take it in like for like 45 minutes an hour. You're kind of like wait. I don't really feel anything. I don't really feel anything. Okay, I feel kind of dizzy. I don't feel bad. I just feel a little like lightheaded.

Man, I feel kind of like I just need to like, my head is like dizzy. I need to lay down. And you lay down and you're like, oh man, my eyes, my eyes feel so heavy. I just need to, I just need to close my eyes. Just need to close my eyes. And then bam, it fucking hits you. And you go somewhere? You go somewhere.

You go, you go. If you go, you're gone. Are you conscious, though? Like, are you in a dream state? Are you? You are totally. I'm just trying to gauge if I would ever do this because I get scared of like, like, I never tripped on mushrooms. I took micro doses, which, like, in a regimented fashion.

And I found it was really helpful. And it did like, I did get something from it. Like, I did feel like I was just like training wheels for this kind of thing. I got something from it. I've got a lot from mushrooms. But I didn't trip. This is you're in another place. You go to another place.

And it, it, it's more like actually you are being taken and along a long, a long journey. And you're being just taken along the journey. And when you come back from it, however many hours later, do you remember stuff? It's like 12 hours later. 12 hours later. Ayahuasca is like, ayahuasca is like four hours. This shit is 12 hours. And when you come out of it, you're still really like, they pick you up and they help you to the bathroom because it's still hard to walk.

You can like kind of like stumbling. They make sure that you don't fall and you can go use the bathroom or whatever. And then you come back down and you just, you lay back down on the mat and you just sleep for like another 12 hours. So it's like one thing. It's like 12 hours because you're you're exhausted after that. So you sleep for another 12 hours. So a full 24 hours is passed with you just laying on this mat. And then you do it again.

again again and then when you come home like however many days whatever like are you conscious of the things that have like that you were dreaming or whatever or does it come back to you in dreams at night or does like where does it re-emerge like what you discover it's fucking etched in stone in the fiber of my being what I learned but you can't remember it it's oh I remember all of it I remember all of it was it dream state like dream images or was it something else it's different for everybody right some people can get extremely like vivid you know like they're they're in another place and it's like vivid and i had a little bit of that going on in my second time i i experienced that a little bit the first one though was like

i would see these flashes of images like i don't know if you meditate but like sometimes in a like in a really deep meditation i can like see with my eyes closed in my mind's eye like a crystal clear image i have that experience like it's like i'm looking at a painting or something like I can see it you know I have that it would these images would flash clear as day for like a split second and in that split second

a massive download of self reflection and knowledge just conveyed in that one image all the everything that's attached to that image learning like 10 years worth of fucking therapy or information about this one thing tied to

this image learned instantaneously. And as it's so instantaneous that it hits you and then you grieve and you process it. And then for the next few hours, you might just be unpacking all that and grieving it and then

making your peace with it and accepting it. And then it's like you've been through this whole fucking roller coaster of processing with just this one thing. And then once that has been fully processed another image and it takes you deeper it's like that was just the first layer that was just that was just the entry that was just the entry ticket that you had to understand before you can

understand the next thing and it was that for 12 hours that's amazing until it gets until it or you get to the absolute center the center the next the nucleus of what it is that it's trying to teach you that it's telling you. Right. And for me, it was you, just like every single fucking person walking this earth at your core are a sweet, innocent child.

And somewhere along the lines, that child was warped into... Twisted... It was twisted and warped to hide that sweetness, to hide that kindness, that innocence. Because you felt that innocence was making you vulnerable to be treated as, you know, to be a victim.

You were made to feel ashamed. You were made to feel. Because at some point, and it could be the most minor thing. It could be a big traumatic thing. It could be the most minor, minuscule fucking thing. But it wasn't minuscule to you at the time. And it caused you and it caused that innocence for you to fucking build walls around it and hide it. And even convince yourself that it didn't even exist.

That's not who you are. Who you are is the fucking person that needs to, you know, keep those walls up, build those walls and maintain those walls. And that, being that person over so many years is what has caused you to collect so much pain, so much pain from having to be that. But then it shows you all of that is bullshit. That's not who you are. who you are is that kid, is that innocent kid.

And guess what? Now, because you know that, what are you going to do with it? Now you can open your eyes and look at it. And every single person you come across, recognize who they are, that they're the same exact way. And whether they know it or not. Exactly. Yeah.

And whether they know it or not, especially if they don't know it. Right. Just through your kindness, just through the kindness that you can give them, help them remember. Yeah. Just changed my life. That's awesome. Because that's what's important because that, what are we, what's going on here?

What are we really doing? What is going on here? Yeah. What is the, what's of substance in this life? Right. What's of substance in this world? Yeah. What are we, like, that's why I always say to people like, if we can't talk about this,

what can we even talk about? Exactly. So with your time, are you going to engage with what is of substance or are you going to just focus on everything but? Because if you're engaged with what the substance is, which is kindness and fucking truth. Truth and kindness.

Yeah. Love. Yeah, exactly. But I like the word kindness because people say, you know, like all that really matters is love.

Well, there's a lot of different versions of love. A lot of people get love. They fix it on one version of it. Yeah. Like the love you have for your wife. You know what I'm saying? Like romantic love.

Right. There's lots of love. Right. So you can't love everybody. You know what I mean? Right. But you can be kind to everybody. Yeah, kindness is like, in one part it's an action, in one part it's a gift.

Exactly. Exactly. It's actionable. Exactly. It's difficult to say, to a random person on the street and feel like I have to love this person because you don't know. There's so much that goes along with love. Not everybody can live up to that. It's hard to live up to that fucking standard of, I have to fucking literally love everyone. Yeah. That's overwhelming. But you can be kind to everyone. A total resent random stranger on the street. Can I be kind? Yeah, I can be kind. I can be kind. I could be kind to that person. Even if it's just a smile.

Exactly. Right. There's so many levels to kindness. Exactly. In your acting career, what do you like, I know running point is going and you're on like a hit show and you're having a good time. But like, what do you want to do? Just keep finding shit you excited about.

I have some of my own things that I really want to develop. Cool. I think the sound of that. I feel like I have to, you know, because I have, I have the stories that I really want to tell that are personal to me. But I can't do it alone. And so I'm still kind of like, I'm in, I'm just now getting to, I feel like to the point where I have enough resources. Yeah.

To collaborate with people on my own merit. So obviously, like, what do people are like, what are you talking about? You've always had the resources. Yeah. But it's like, I don't want somebody to work with me because they think that they're doing a favor or like. I understand. You know what I mean? I feel the same way.

I want somebody to work with me because they get what I'm trying to do, you know? It be, you know, so. It's the only way it'll be. It only matter. It's the only way it'll be genuine and authentic as an art project is if everybody's there because they're excited and they see it. Yeah. So you're smart to you're smart to be that way. But apart from that, you know, it's like the nature of being an actor is kind of like just being a fucking hired gun.

You know what I mean? You wait for the jobs to come up. You get a shot at them. You get a crack at them if you're lucky. And if you're really lucky, then you book it. You know what I'm saying? But you never know what's coming down the pipeline. Right.

You never know what's coming. You don't know until a week before. You know what I mean? I always saw it looked really fun. It is fun. I mean, it's a former self-expression for me. I didn't always look at it like that. I used to look at it like I'm a deer in the headlights.

I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I don't know why these people picked me to be the guy. They saw something that I don't see in terms of I went to the audition. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. But apparently they liked it. Okay, now I got to go do it for real. And I have no fucking idea what I'm doing. Deer in the headlights.

Terrifying. Terrifying. And in that state, it's hard. It's really hard because you don't have any fucking confidence in your choices. You're going off a pure instinct and you're hoping that it turns out good enough. And sometimes you look at the shit and you're like, that was pretty good. Sometimes you look at it like, that was great. Sometimes you look at it like I fucking butchered that.

You know what I mean? And you never know. You do it and you don't know how you do it. until a year later when you're watching it on TV like everyone else. Right. You know what I'm saying? So it's like a slow learning process of like, what did I do right? What did I do wrong?

You have to go. All you're doing it is based on watching tape. You know what I'm saying? That's a year. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's a long drawn. That's why it's like you learn slowly after job, after job after job.

But now, and that can always happen. That can always happen, that uncertainty. But I've gotten to a point in my work where, I don't give a fuck how it comes out. And I cultivate that mentality. I keep that state of mind cultivated because I know that when I truly feel that way, that's when I do my best work. Yeah, you're free.

That's when I see my work later and I'm like, flawless. Like I nailed it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I try to purposely cultivate. The truth is is that I do give a fuck. Right. You want to do a good job.

Deeply. Yeah. But I trained my mind to simulate not giving a fuck. as much as possible because that's when I do my best work. And that is all just a matter of your own mental process. I think you can care about the quality of your work without caring about. Oh, no. You have to, doing the preparation, doing the work beforehand is essential.

Right. You have to prepare. You have to know, have an idea of the person that you're portraying and create that person in your mind beforehand. I'm just talking about the actual moment. Right. when you're on that. Where they say action.

Cameras are on and you're like, you gotta let go. Here goes nothing. Yeah. It's like jumping out of a plane. Exactly. That's how it feels on stage. Send it.

That's how I feel. Fucking send it. Let it fly. Right. Another thing, like you asked me like, what do I want to do with my career? Besides,

develop my own shit, I want to do a role. It's, I want to start doing roles that are completely fucking different from who I am as a person. So all of my roles have been really similar to who I am.

Like one of the first times I went to rehab. I got sober for the first time. I fucking, I just had a kid. I get out of rehab. I get an audition for a role of a dude who's living in a sober living trying to have a relationship with his kid.

It was a show called Marin. I'm like, okay, I'm literally in that situation. I'm like, if I don't get this fucking audition, I might as well just roll it up. And I got it. I'm like, okay, well, this is fucking trippy. You know what I mean? Then I do the same role on shameless.

Same role. Sober guy trying to get sober, trying to have a relationship with this kid. Boom. It's like, okay, I got that one. Then I got to get a role on an empath. playing a white rapper. Yeah. Believe.

Now I'm playing basically an exaggerated version of myself on fucking running point. So to be able, it's like it's like a fucking joke. It's like art imitating a life. You know what I mean? So my point is it's like, bro, if you want to ask me what kind of role I want to do,

I want to play like a fucking British aristocrat in like the 1700s. Yeah. Yeah. Governor Breelsby came by the house today. So, so. I want to wear a wig just to like fuck around and show people what I can do

you know what I mean. But you will. Work on it. But you will. Yeah. But I just look at guys like fuck it or like have a moment or like have a role where it's just so raw where I get to really like show something truly vulnerable of myself. And so when I look at actors like Timothy Chalemar like Shia LaBuffer these guys.

They get to do that. They're doing that. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm like in awe of them like, wow, it's fucking incredible. And I ask myself like, I would like that challenge.

Right now, the roles you're going to get are the things that I can accept you in. Yeah. All right. And me as the viewer. Because I already know you kind of. Because isn't that a so-and-so's kid? And didn't he get in trouble as a thing? Isn't he, uh, don't they have a brother that's, uh, you know what I mean?

Like, like, that's just reality. Yeah. So what you've had to do with the Rubik's Cube is you're a good actor. Thanks. And you are going to get the opportunity to show people more. but it's going to take time and over time. You're going to get some role in the next probably two years here. I'm pretty usually right about when I see things for people,

but you're probably going to get some role in the next two years here that it pops up and it's interesting and you're like, I could do that. You're going to do it. And somewhere in there is going to, it's going to be a different thing that you weren't expecting, that you didn't even acknowledge at the time that that was the thing. you over here you think it's some other thing and it's some other thing that you can't see. Yeah, exactly.

And it'll be something that shows something else you have. You're going to age well in the sense of like you're getting to know yourself more as you get older. Yeah. A lot of people get taken away from themselves as they get over. The only other thing I want to talk about is the music because you have your newer project. Yeah, something out west. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm glad you brought that out because I do music is also really important to me. I know. And you're good at it. Thank you. Yeah, it's just like acting is how I support myself. I'm trying to get the music going. But music, dude, doing music, is the fucking best. It is.

It's freedom. It's the best. There's nothing like performing your music. Like I just performed at Tortuga, this festival in Fort Lauderdale. I'm performing at Stagecoach. Oh, cool. My group. My group's called Something Out West.

It's a duo, me and my boy, and it's country music. Who's your other guy in it? He's my boy, Drew, named Drew Arthur. And he's been my boy for a while. He's like a really talented songwriter, plays guitar. We had been friends for a long time, and like several years ago, we started making music together. We never put it out because we didn't have like the right situation.

I didn't just want to roll the dice on it and put it out because I know what it's like to just put something out, crossing your fingers, hoping that it goes viral, and you become a huge hit, but it's like in this day and age, you got to have a plan. You got to have the right things in place to, we didn't have any infrastructure,

but now we do. And we got a team behind us and go check out our music. If you're listening to something out west, Spotify music, all the streaming platforms. But there's nothing like making a fucking, like writing a song, making it listening to it,

being so fucking stoked on it, listening to yourself, loving it, loving what you made, and getting them to perform it. Yeah, it's nothing better. There's nothing better because acting doesn't have that. Acting doesn't have that immediate connection with the audience.

Right. You go off somewhere. You're working. Nobody knows what you're doing. You spend fucking three, four months filming something. Right. And then it doesn't even come out for it for a year. Right.

By the time it comes out, you're over it. You've lived through a year of your life. Everything that entails ups, downs, fucking stress, whatever. By the time it comes out, you forgot about it. You're like, oh, yeah, that fucking thing. Yeah. It's like, and then if people like it, they're like, hey, dude, I saw you in that thing. That was fucking sick.

You're like, thanks. That's all you get from it. You know what I mean? Besides the money. That's all you get. You don't get that immediate. It's me and you right here. And anything could happen.

Exactly. On stage, anything could happen. Exactly. It's like you're going to, it's like, it's like, I heard someone say this one time. It's like filming a movie or a TV show. It's like being at the DMV with famous people. Yeah. You're just waiting around all day, bored is shit.

Every now and then you got to go do it. Action. Okay. Cut. You're like back to sitting around fucking bored. Just drinking coffee. They're there for, it takes forever.

Forever. Yeah. And then like some fucking super famous person is like, oh yeah, you're here. And they're like, okay, yeah,

you're here. You know what I mean? Like it's like, it's like going to the DMV of famous people. You know what I mean? Like, but it's like, you know what it is.

Dude fucking. I couldn't do it, bro. I mean, I do TV shows sometimes. That's long enough for me, but it's contained. So it's like, I like doing TV shows. I really enjoy it.

I'm like always looking for the next show that captures. But it's not acting. It's like reality competition type, like Inkmaster's like a tattoo show. You get to be yourself. It's not hard. It's just long hours. Yeah. But it's not hard.

Like acting would be hard for me because I'm too self-conscious. That's crazy because it's like I don't get nervous acting. anymore, but I get hell of nervous before I go on stage. That's funny. It's not. For me, it's not. I'm only a little nervous because of the size. So going to like 20,000 people or 30,000 people or 40,000 people. I'm more like nervous in like a respectful way of like what we're about to do for the next hour and half or hour 45. We orchestrated like not a Broadway show, but kind of. Every moment has to go together. It's coordinated. Like we do this. Our show now is like,

like so is like this big rock show. And there's all these moments that have to happen. And everyone has to be in the right place. There's pyro here. Then there's pyro there. Then there's this and there's that. And like you have a click in your ear for this track. And then you're doing this for this song.

And then there's eight live musicians. And if anything goes wrong, you hear it. So it's like a little bit like a coordinated dance of a certain way. So I get nervous. But when you're doing it, it's like all like that does that just disappear? Like we're free. As soon as you get on stage, everything in between the construction of the show is whatever happens. Right.

You jump up there or you do this or you say that. But like the show is this like with the video and the lasers and the fire and all the things, it did have to be constructed. So flying that plane is a little bit bigger than what we used to do like in like a club. But what about like when you first got started? Like your first fucking like. It's wild. But like were you, were you nervous? Terrified.

Terrified, right? And then that just goes, you just get used to it. I used to first two shows I did my back to the audience. Yeah. So weird. Yeah. Yeah. I did it.

Just like, just be thinking like, what if I just forget all the words? You know what I think? And I did sometimes. And I still do sometimes. I still get terrified sometimes depending on like what we're doing. TV has helped. Doing this has really helped me because I'm less terrified now to talk. Yeah.

Because sometimes in between songs, I'm like, what are sorry? Yeah, yeah. But performing is not hard for. for me at all. Yeah. Unless I'm with someone and I'm meant to do something. So like if so-and-so wants me to come sing with them, a tribute for so-and-so at the grand music.

I'm no longer talented. I've lost all talent, all ability, all skill. I was at a thing. And Adam Sandler is one of my favorite actors and comedians and whatever. Big musician. A killer,

he sings these songs. And he's actually like, oh, yeah. He's really good. He's like a, and he's like a, and he's like a, yeah,

And he loves music and he can play and he's like, he's cool as shit. He is cool as fuck. But I don't know him well. I just, I was there and he knows, he knows I'm a musician. Yeah. He knows me well enough to know I'm a musician, but like we don't have each other's phone number. Yeah. But like, seeing him around and he's friends with some friends or whatever.

And he's at this thing and he's playing. And he's like, come on, dude. Get up here, dude. And I'm like, it's like Adam Salary's like, dude, what are you doing, man? Get up here. And I'm like, no. I can. It was so devastating for me.

It was devastating. My one opportunity to get up with the Sandman and sing. I couldn't find it in my soul. I was, because I get, I freeze when it's anything but like, I think I've organized my, I think I've organized my brain to be able to perform in certain spots.

Yeah. And until I organize that way, I can't do it. I had a moment like that. I really fucking regretted, dude. My parents' 30th anniversary, this is a trip. My parents' 30th anniversary, they had this big party, and they invited everybody.

And they did a thing where my mom hired a live band, and she said, anybody who wants to perform a song can put their name in a hat, and we're going to go through, we're going to randomly draw names at the hat. That's cool. And then you go up and perform whatever song you want in front of everybody.

That's the whole party. That's what we're doing at the party. It's like a high-end karaoke. Yeah, with the actual band. So they had to tell the band the name of the song in advance so they knew they could play it, right? Sick. But here's who was at the party.

Baroque and Michelle. Oh, my God. What did Baroque's in? Oprah. Love Oprah. Anthony Kedis. I mean. Jimmy Fallon.

David Geffen. Scooter Braun. The list goes on. The list is like, oh. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. This is who you're performing in front of. Okay.

No way I am. My mom is like, Chet, what song do you want to perform? I was like, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. She's like, no, seriously, come on, just do it. I'm like, no. Scooter Braun called me because, like, I'm cool with him.

Yeah. Because he really, like, was like, he looked out for me when I was going through shit. I think it's because my mom called him. She was like, Chet really looks up to you. Can you call him and try to fucking. And he was like, all right, Rita. So he'd be like, hey, Chad. He would call me like, Chad, what's going on?

I'd be like, oh, my God, Scooter Braun's calling me. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I should, all right, you're right, I'll go to rehab. You know what? Scooter Braun called me, and he's like, what song are you going to perform? You're like, did my mom tell you again?

I was like, I don't want to do it. He's like, I don't want to do it either. Here's what we should do. I'm going to fucking invite DJ Khalid, and you just go up on stage and introduce him. And he's going to go up and do all I do is win. I was like, yes, thank God. That'll work.

Okay? So I did, yeah, we did that. But I'm telling you, bro, I really regret not singing a song. Yeah, I really regret not doing it. I wish I could go back in time to that party and just fucking, just knock Barack and Michelle's socks off. Yeah, just nail one. Like, wow. Because you could have.

What a talent. You know what? He's tough. David Giffman would be like, I'm going to sign up. Jimmy I have been here. Jimmy I have been there. That's the moment Jimmy I have been Could have realized that I'm the next fucking M&M

Yeah Blown opportunity Jimmy haven't we all Yeah No none of that shit would have happened But I wish I could have at least I wish I could have at least had the balls to go do it You know what?

Yeah but you know what But at the time I just wasn't there You were being yourself I was just wasn't there yet Yeah But I was like fuck dude That would have been sick I wouldn't have done it

song I wouldn't have done it. You know what song I would have said? What? Rooster. Allison Chan's. Oh my God. One of my favorites. Here come the rooster. Oh yeah. You know what I would have done? So, everyone would be like, okay. If I was going to do an Allison Chain song, I would do nutshell. Yeah. And I probably listened to nutshell five times a week. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm the same. I just, I just, I don't listen to, I don't discover a lot of new music. I just listen to the shit that I love over and over and Yeah. Do we get everything you want to talk about? Yeah, bro. We're good. Running Point is out. Yeah. Is that kind of what you're promoting right now, like as things go? I was just, I just came here to meet you. Sick. I don't give a fuck about the promo.

I love video. Chat, thanks, bro. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of artist friendly. You can also watch the episodes on Spotify. Spotify premium users get no commercial breaks. on my show. Make sure to follow, like, and comment because I always read the comments.