Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Chris Daughtry

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Chris Daughtry. After releasing their Shock to the System (Part One) EP and spending time on the road this year, Daughtry will support Disturbed on the 25th anniversary tour of The Sickness in 2025. In a lengthy conversation with Madden, Grammy-nominated frontman Chris Daughtry explores the importance of having a clear creative vision, the magic of creating, and the band’s upcoming new album. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'll be talking to multi-platinum, many-time Grammy-nominated, and most recently, number one at rock radio, the singer-songwriter and frontman for the band Daughtry, Chris Daughtry. Let's go. How do you keep going back to the music instead of all the other stuff that we're kind of toll is important. Yeah. Because it's almost like if you were trying to get the number one, you wouldn't have got it. Absolutely. But you were trying to make a good record and then you got the number one. Like I think it's probably something like that. I'm going to let you answer. But I'm just like thinking about it in real time and trying to work it out because I'm always looking for the

answer of like, how do you keep going back to the art? Yeah. And not all the other stuff. You know, it's crazy. There were years where it felt like we're chasing that radio song. We're chasing that number one. We're chasing. We're chasing that number one. and shit just stopped. Like, it just came to a screeching halt. And we were, you know, surrounded by people like, oh, guitars aren't cool anymore, you know, and we're drinking the Kool-Aid. We're going, oh, shit.

We want to stay relevant. All we do is play guitar. It gets it's over. We need to pivot. We need to be doing what these guys are doing. And, man, it's fucking confusing. It's so confusing. And, you know, I'm still at least,

when I look back, I feel like I was still relatively new to the industry. And you want to believe that everyone around you is telling you the truth or that everything they're saying is gospel. These are the experts. Yeah, yeah. These are the ones that are, you know, paying the bills. They must know what they're talking about. What do I know? And five records in, I find myself questioning if I'm a good songwriter, if I'm even, if I'm even supposed to be doing this, or if my best shit's behind me or are we just done? Did we have our moment and this is it? Yeah. That's crazy. Then COVID hits. I'm, I've completed my record contract with RCA and I'm going, wait a minute. Am I chasing or am I doing what I really, you know, feel in my heart that I should be doing?

Am I writing the music that, am I writing the kind of music that inspired me as a 16 year old kid to want to get in front of a mic in the first place? And the answer was no. And I'm like, well, why am I not doing that? There's nobody telling me I can't. And I'm not, you know, I'm not at the helm of some big corporation now or record label saying this is the kind of record you should be doing. Or at this point, I was just alone with my thoughts and my own feelings about my own art. And in that regard, COVID was kind of a huge blessing for me because it was like it forced me to look within myself and question. and it was kind of like this existential crisis, you know, like, am I doing what really fulfills me? And the answer was no. And when I started going back and listening to these records that really got me fired up as a kid to want to be in a rock band, and I was like, well, why am I not doing that?

Why am I not writing the stuff that makes me feel something, you know, and makes me feel artistically fulfilled? And excited. And excited, yeah. Yeah, like if I'm picturing myself on stage right now, am I giving myself the feeling that those bands that I saw as a kid gave me? And if not, then you're doing yourself a disservice. So at that point, I just started digging into those records again and kind of getting re-energized and re-inspired. And the irony is we're having more success now at rock radio than we ever had.

And I wasn't chasing a hit. I wasn't chasing a radio song. It was like, let's write from here. Let's put, let's be vulnerable here. Let's really put our truth out there and let the people decide. I think that is like the key to life. Yeah. I learned that somewhere in the last 10 years. We're around the same age. I think probably. I don't believe in that right and wrong when it comes to like living life and growth. And like you're on your on. your own path and you can only, you're only where you're at, right? Yeah. And until I... And your path is different than mine and vice versa. Yeah. Until I come to terms of where I'm really at, then I can grow. Yeah.

But if I'm living in a delusion that I'm somewhere that I'm not, and that's tricky, right? Because we can surround ourselves with people who feed the lie of, like, who we really are, who, where we're really at. And like, a lot of entertainment, it's tricky because you can be a pretender. and you can actually be a great pretender and you can live a whole you can live a whole life yeah and it's not wrong by the way it's it's because it's entertainment so you're like what part of my life is entertainment and what part of my life is my real life right and like where are the lines and they can get blurred and you can get all like it's why i always say like if you don't need to do this if you don't

die for this making music don't do it as a career yeah it's it's it's it's it's it's It's fucked. I've had a lot of people, a lot of young people ask me, you know, you got any career advice on starting a band? I was like, yeah, don't. Don't. And if I say don't, and you still need to do it, do it. Then do it, yeah.

And fucking give it your all, but understand that, like, you're not choosing. It's a roller coaster in all the greatest ways. And I don't know any artist, because I sit across from me and I know it. I can feel it. I can feel it at any time. anyone who's sitting in this chair who has success has worked their fucking ass off for it and has been through some adversity and hard shit because life presents us with pain and life presents us with suffering.

None of us escape it. Absolutely. It's the truth of life. It's how do we navigate the pain of life? How do we make sense of it? And then on the other side of it, how do we enjoy life, succeed, become better, grow? just going back to your latest music because I feel it. When I listen to it, it's exciting.

It feels like there's not phoned in. It feels like there's something at stake. Yeah. And that's the difference. It's just a feeling in a song. It doesn't matter how you wrote it. But you could, if someone said to you, hey, go in tomorrow and make a rock song.

And you know, we're going to bring this writer in, this producer in, and you guys go make a rock song. You could make a rock song. Yeah. And it'll probably be really good. And maybe you'll catch that lightning in a bottle and you'll be excited. But you could also just phone it in, make the song, ship it out and get it done. And there's a difference.

It's like an intangible feeling. And when I heard your new music, I was like, oh, I mean, it's in line with all your best stuff. Thank you, man. It's like the icing on the cake because you've already succeeded. You've got all the award nominations and awards you won and platinum records. and gold records and all the things you've accomplished, someone could argue you don't have to do it. When I hear the music, I feel like someone who had to make a record.

So it feels deeper. Yeah, I have to. There's nothing, like, there's no doubt in my mind that I have to do this. Yeah, I feel it. And, you know. You're bleeding a little bit on that record. Yeah, it's become therapy for me. It's become how I process.

the pain and the the hard shit life throws at us. You know, it's how I've been able to move through pain and loss and, and hard shit. And I feel like as I'm putting this out and I'm putting this on paper and I'm, and I'm putting this in the music that somehow I'm saying things that maybe other people can't and, or don't know how. And that's the reason for it. that it connects us.

It makes someone feel they're not alone. You know, if that's, you know, all that comes out of it, that I feel like I'm doing, you know, my part or living out my purpose in some way. Because I don't know if everyone has the tools to move through hardship. I've kind of found out these tools the hard way through life and I feel like that is what my purpose is in the music now.

To let someone know, guess what, I feel that shit too. I've been there too. You're not alone. Life is hard. There is light at the other side of this, you know? So, yeah, and in that way I feel that I have to do this for myself, and it's not about the AMAs or the Grammy nominations or any of that shit anymore. You know, where I used to live in that world where it was like, oh, we just got to get this.

Or, you know, it was more about that as opposed to, man, there's a real meaning behind this. Right. Well, I think if you can survive the novelty of the new experience, right? And that's just part of growing up, too. I mean, you say we're around the same age. I tell people all the time, like the 40s have been my best decade yet. decade for me. I mean, hands down, I was scared as shit to say by to my 30s. And for whatever reason, it was like a switch went off. And I felt like I kind of settled into this meat suit a little bit

more. And I was like, I think I know what I'm supposed to be doing in life now. And like, I get this now. And I've, there's a real purpose behind it. And all of this shit that led to this has prepared me for this next level of the game. I agree. I think I got. I got. like in in my body and I think I got comfortable with looking at the bill. You know what I mean? I think we don't want to see the bill of anything. We don't want to look at the cost. Yeah, yeah. I want to go do this, do that, do that, but we don't want to measure the cost. And then the bill gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And if you don't look at that check and pay it, it's going to build up and it's going to, you're going to have to pay it at some point.

And some people pay with their lives. Yeah. You know? And some people pay with. with their loss. Yeah. And so in my 40s, I realized early, in my early 40s, I'm 45. Oh, we are about the same. I'll be 45 in December. There you go. So I realize, oh, I got to pay the check every day.

Mm-hmm. So if it's going to the gym, if it's checking in with yourself. Checking in with myself. If it's checking in with my wife, if it's making a healthy decision versus an unhealthy one, because I had a propensity to want to escape. Oh, me too, my friend. And it would build up and build up. And then you'd go out and have some big night or some weekend where you're just trying

to escape. Yep. But then on Monday or Tuesday or whatever, you got a check to pay. And you got to clean up some damage. And you got to make sense of, I started working on that. And it was a real thing in my life. And I'm still working on it, if I'm being honest. But I've come so far in that, that needs.

to get out of my real life because I'm too scared of the real life. You know, for me, I think it was coming from a traumatic childhood and having a rough start. The idea that any of this could really work out for me was a real hard. It's still one that I'm still getting my arms around and holding it long enough. You just got to hold it as long as you can. Yeah. Because a lot of us will hold it and put it down. That's too good for me.

But you understand what it is and what the risks are of losing it. You know, and, and that's the thing. You, when you, when you start to realize that and you realize every choice you make impacts that in some way, negatively or positive, it all becomes like, oh, shit is real. Yeah. And, and I have to take responsibility of my part in that. Yes. And realize that's real. Everything I do or think or say or, you know, affects.

my circle in a good way or a bad way. And I, dude, I mean, I started going to therapy. Me too. You know, like, you know, you go through life thinking that, oh, my, you know, my childhood was absolutely perfect. And then you get to an age where shit starts to come up and you're like, oh, that's why I do this. Oh, that's why I do this. Oh, I need to do. I need to look at this. I need to, I need to look at myself here and stop blaming everyone around me. Yep. For shit that's happened and go, oh, wait a minute, it's me. I got to like figure this out. And that's part of the, that's part of this growth, you know, game or whatever you want to call it that, that life is. And I've spent many

nights, you know, you know, regretting things. Yeah. And, and, and. No doubt. Thinking about things that I wish I could change. And then you realize would just change it for tomorrow. Just change it for today. Can't change what, what has happened. But you can learn from it. and you can actually do something about it now. And that's when you realize if you're serious or not, you know. There is this call to action that we can, that we have in other places, right, for whatever reason, our call to action to get after it with music is there. It's never been a problem for me or you.

You work hard. You work your ass off. I work my ass off. That's not a problem. I get up every day and work 14 hours, no problem. Because I love what I'm doing. Yeah. And I have a, I never stop dreaming.

I never stopped wanting to play that game. But then there's this other thing where we got to get that same call to action around the things that, you know, we never let develop in our life. Maybe it was like our emotional, well-beat, maybe it's our emotional life, maybe it was whatever. And I have this like dark little place in me where I'll, we're cruising down the highway, like metaphorically of life, right? And I just want to run the car off the fucking road. God. Just to see. I just want to see if I'll survive.

Just to see what this does. I just have the urge to drive right off the road into the fucking ditch. Yeah, I joke about that with my wife all the time. It's a real deep pain. It's a deep pain. It's real. It's like everything's good. But there's a wall right there and I'm going to 80, 90 miles an hour.

I wonder if I just fucking run into that wall. Yeah. I find it's, I don't want to say, here's the thing, is I've learned how to love myself to not have shame around that part of me, but just let it be there. And to try and like understand it because there's some value there when it comes to intense moments in life,

I could stay pretty calm. Yeah, yeah. And I can handle a lot of stress and pressure, but it's when everything's calm and good where I think I want a little bit of destruction. Yeah. And I think that's the part of me that was acting out a lot of times

when I would, you know, misbehave or go out and you know, but here's the problem in rock and roll is everyone loves it. Oh, yeah. When you're misbehaving. Yeah, you're the cool guy. You're fun then. When you're, you know, you're out with everybody. They kind of want that.

They encourage it. So you're not necessarily always in an environment where people are going to go, hey, dude, are you okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was never the case. Yeah. Everyone's like, faster. Yeah, yeah.

So I do think, though, that like a lot of guys that do what we do, we have similar injuries and similar. stuff, right? It's got to be. And I think that we're sold a fantasy that the bad behavior or the wildness or whatever you want to call it, right? Drinking, I never really did drugs. But all the stuff, whatever the thing is, it's encouraged almost like it's good.

Yeah. Right? Like poor health is good for some reason. We are in one of the most unhealthy industries. Yeah. And somehow it's like celebrated. Yeah, yeah. He's so cool.

But I think in my 40s was that early 40, late 30s, early 40s, I turned that corner and I realized like, no, that's bad. Yeah, yeah. Like, I want to live a long time and be happy. I just got tired of waking up feeling like shit. Yeah. And regretting either something I said or something I did and be like, I get to choose this. I get to, like, I'm sick of my own mistakes here.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. And then you put together a bunch of years where that's behind you, and you wouldn't go back. I wouldn't go back to that. Yeah, I think it's part of growth and growing up, and we're lucky if we get to do it. We're lucky if we get to grow up. For sure.

A lot of people do not get that chance. Yeah. And that's the other thing is the order you get in this, you see people die. Yeah. And the lie is that we have to be in pain to make good music. No, there's always going to be pain. You don't have to look very far. You don't have to look far.

Life is painful. Yeah. But we can find peace. We can find joy. We can find health and still deal with the pain and share it. And like you said, yes, you are saying something that other people don't have the ability to not only put together in a way that we can all digest it, but also that you have a big stage. you have a platform you have a band that people trust and you have a record of me of making music

people like so when you put out a song that hits like that of course it's going to matter and and that is i think the point of it is actually what you're doing where people you're giving them a soundtrack for the movie they're in yeah the pain has to be there but none of us get away from it anyways. Yeah, I love where your music's at, dude. Thank you. Thank you. It's really fucking great. Well, I, you know, I went through the, like you said earlier, I went through the being, you know, jumping from studio to studio writer to writer, producer to producer, doing that whole thing, you know, doing the round. And then ever since our last record, or going into our last record, Dearly Beloved, it was, I was like, I want to work with these two guys. We've written

many great songs together, but I feel like they get me. I don't want to be bouncing around to different people and getting their ideas of me or their versions of me. Here's what you should do. Yeah. No. And I'm coming in like, this is what we're doing, and they're helping me facilitate that. And that's the difference. And it is, it's hard. Some days it just falls from the sky and it's It's like, holy shit, this is like, I can't believe we just wrote this. And then other days, it's like we're banging our heads against the wall. And that's when we go, this ain't working, you know, let's go get dinner. Yeah, let's come back to it tomorrow.

Because I don't want those songs. You know, either one of us could go and write a song. But if you're not going to, you know, if it doesn't have any teeth to it, it doesn't make you, it doesn't evoke any kind of real emotion in you. or even sometimes, I've found like, if it's scary to say, then that's when it's fucking great. Yeah, if your face gets red when you say it. There's a few moments making this record where I'm like, oh, shit. You're completely exposed.

You know what I mean? I have to say it. I agree with that. I agree with that. It's uncomfortable for me to play this for you. It's uncomfortable and I'm worried about what people are going to, how they're going to take it or whatever. and that's when I'm like, no. Those are the best ones.

That's the best. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's really good. I have that too. I almost know it. If I don't want to play it for someone because I'm so uncomfortable,

it's probably going to be good. Yeah. People tend to like those the most because they're honest. Yeah. I agree with that. That's awesome. Who are the other guys in just rock and roll and music that you feel have had some kind of an impact on you?

Are there any guys around in other bands or other musicians? or producers or people that have impacted you? Yeah, I mean, I think for different reasons, one of our first tours was with Bon Jovi. Oh, yeah, he's cool, huh? And it's like, God, at that time, they had been doing it for, you know, almost 50 years. Yeah.

And it's like, that's fucking cool, man, to be, you know, selling out arenas 50 years later into your career. And at the time, I just assumed that's just how it works. But since I've realized how hard it is to maintain that level. And to navigate all the stuff. You know, they went from stadiums to arenas. And that's, you know, our version of, you know, arenas to clubs. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's all relative. And I think, if anything, it just speaks to me in a way that goes, you just got to keep doing it. You know, and, you know, we tour with nickel back as well. And, you know, it's no secret that they've gotten their fair share of shit pile. on them. Oh, ma'am. And they're still crushing it. And their disposition is really great. Yeah. You see them interact with the world and they haven't been beaten. And that's why I love Nickelback. Because everyone knows, like, they got shit. But now they're being celebrated in a way that I feel like they deserve it. They had it coming. I've been saying it for years. We've been, we've toured with

them probably more than any band we've ever toured with. And every. And every. Every night I'm watching them. I'm like, try to talk shit about this. Like, listen to them. They're incredible. They sound great. These songs are undeniable. And I think people, you know.

Yeah, shit talking nickel back now is kind of like something someone does if they're like so out of touch. Right, right. Like, it's like something like a 45 year old dad might do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If they're like, it just sounds like very. Trying to sound cool to the young people. the young people are like, but wait, we, we fuck with nickelback. Yeah, that's it. That's it. I think, I think it's something like, whoa, dude, you're way out of,

like, you're way out of touch with, like, right now. Yeah. Like, it's funny because, like, I think they're being celebrated, and that's another testament to sticking through. I actually think also they back themselves. Yeah. And if you stay true to yourself and you back yourself and you believe in yourself and you keep trucking, you will outlast any of the, adverse reaction to your success. There's always going to be some adverse reaction, and people are going to try to pick it apart, poke holes in it. Yeah, yeah. And some of us have to survive it. We did. We got it. Yeah, we've had our fair share of holes poked. All of us have. Like, seriously. You have to back yourself, believe in yourself. That's why you should make the music

you believe in. Yes. And then just go out there. And sometimes I'm going to be humbled. That's been my biggest lesson in this industry is I have to be making this for. me at the end of the day. If people love it, then that's a bonus. But I have to love it first. I have to, it can't be just like some ANR person telling me like, that's a fucking hit right there. You need to go do that, even though I'm going, uh, I don't even feel this. You know what I mean? I had that. I've been there. It sucks. And now I'm in a place where I fully back myself in what we're doing and believe in what we're doing. And there's no chart position that can top that feeling. Zero. You know what I mean? There's no, there's no plaque or anything like that that can,

that can beat that feel. I've had the plaques and I've been like, fucking hate that song. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not a big fan of that era. I wasn't really feeling that that was. But I encourage you to love yourself there. Yeah. Whatever that guy was going through, trying to... That guy had to experience that to understand that you have to do it for you. And he was trying. All I'll say about this is this, is even though I look back on certain moments the same way and I go, fucking hated that because we were told by them, that person to do that. And we got pulled off the road, off the path, off the true path of being ourselves, whatever that means. And we did it their way or whatever. Now, I'm not going to sit here and

blame them because I did it. But I'm going to love that guy that was trying his best because he second guessed himself because he was new or he was, it was some self-esteem stuff. It was like, what do I know? I guess I should listen to this guy. He's got more plaques on his wall than I do. And at some point, we've all done that. We've all been talked into some bad idea. You've got to love yourself in that moment for trying to win because some part of my self-esteem told me I didn't know better, and I had to go find out the hard way, and that's okay.

Because I'm back here now, and I'm on my path, but I'm still going to love that part of me that wanted to... The ultimate goal was to succeed, and that's actually what we have to have in life is the ultimate goal to succeed. Absolutely. Whatever that means. Now, I think defining success is important,

and once we start to love ourselves and gain that self-reve, respect that you have because I can hear it in your music. I can in these new songs and the last record, I'm like, there's some real like full grown rock. This guy's been on the journey and he's had to get it the hard way. Right. And the same with me, right? We're, we're, whatever we're doing in life, we had to get there the hard way. And there were moments where people made a second guess ourselves. We did some shit. I'm not, I did some shit that I'm like, man, I wish I would have never done that fucking commercial.

It was a big check. Everyone was like, you guys, you did, whatever it was. Yeah. I'm embarrassed by it. We've all had those check moments. Yeah, I'm like, now I'm in a clown suit at a birthday party. Yeah. And I'm doing this for the money.

And that's the part of me that I got to love, though. I can't reject it. I got to love that, as sad as it is that I felt like I needed to do that to win. I got to love that part of me that still showed up in good faith. I'm never going to do it again. but I'm also not going to shame myself for doing it. People ask me all the time,

is there anything in your career that you regret or feel like you made a choice that you wish you never made? And it's like, I could tell you a bunch of things that I think could have panned out differently, but do I regret it? I can't. Got a lesson.

I got the lesson. I learned what I was, I wouldn't be, I'd know for a fact that I would not be writing the music that I'm writing now had I not gone through those twists and turns and listen to people that maybe I shouldn't have. Because how else would I know? How else would I have gotten to the point where I realize that even though they told me

that I should do that, that I am the one that ultimately did that. Yeah, you and I have to, and I had to realize that someone told me something a long time ago that at the time, I just kind of was like, yeah, okay, it sounds, you know, pretty obvious, but whatever. But since, has like rang in my brain every day. You have to have a clear vision. And if you don't, someone's going to give you theirs. Yes. And when I look back at my, at those moments in my career, that was me not having a clear vision. That was me going, well, I guess this is, you know, and not. And not giving yourself the time and space to get your vision. Yeah. So if you don't have one, you're on the go, always going. So you're like, I'm on to the next tour. I'm on to the next thing.

Print it. Print it. Instead of going like, hold on, everybody. I'm a little lost. Yeah. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's me. Maybe it's my life.

Maybe it's the music. I don't know. I need to get back to dreaming. Yeah. And that's the thing, not knowing to take that breath. We didn't know we could. To like, let's pump these fucking breaks real quick. Let's figure out what I'm really feeling.

I don't know what I'm feeling. I just know that this doesn't feel as exciting as I want it to. Yeah. Yeah. I think everybody needs to hear that. Yeah. I love that. I always look out in the world and I always hope that, listen, I tend to listen to mostly to rock music and bands, but I listen to

everything. But I tend to relate my experience. I relate to band guys because I've just lived that life for so long. So I tend to notice more bands than anything. And I always hope that they're building out lives. that they want to live in. Yeah. And by the way, I love hearing that you feel that you've gone through that too.

I love hearing it from other people that I respect and look up to because you don't know, you think you're the only one going through this. Yeah. That like everybody else had this perfect trajectory and I'm back here going, why did I do this record? Why did I do that? You know, so it really, it definitely makes me feel even more like, okay. Oh my God, dude. This is just part of the...

I think it's the same experience. we all have. If we all look back, all we're going to see is our mistakes. Yeah. Everybody else is only going to see our wins. And that's how they know us. So most people I meet are singing the anthem to me, right? And I'm like, which is great. Yeah. But that's how they see me. Yeah. And I've been doing a lot of life since then. Yeah. And I'm also okay with it. I was at a thing with my son yesterday. It's at a card show. And everybody there, it was really nice. Everyone was saying hi. And it was all like nostalgia. you. Everyone there's like probably in their 30s. Listen to us when they were like 12 or 13 or whatever. I love that. It is very nice.

But they don't actually know me like the guy now, right? They have a snapshot of me when I was 21 or whatever. Right, right. And they still see you as like that person. And that's okay. But we look back on ourselves and we probably only think about the mistakes we make. Oh, yeah. The thing I encourage, at least the people I know, and if I get to talk to artists, because I do the same thing, but I try to be judgment-free. I try not to label it as a mistake more as an experience. And the result of that experience, we can analyze it if we really wanted to. Was any of it good? Was any of it bad? And if we hadn't done all of it, would we not be sitting right here in this moment alive and well?

Yeah. Had the fifth record been as big as I thought it should have been, would I still be here in this part of my life that I love with my wife and my kids and my friends and doing things I love every day? I don't know. I couldn't answer that for you. Would I want to go anywhere other than where I am right now? No.

Absolutely. So whatever that was, I'm here. Yeah. And I can take the experience of how it feels to do something you don't want to do really or that you didn't have a vision on, right? It's so valuable to have that advice about having your own vision. Yeah, you have something to compare it to. I've never heard it put like that,

and it's so important to get back to your own vision when you've gotten off track through success, it's a good thing, to make sure you can stop and go, like, what's my dream now? Yeah. And then actually lean into it. Yeah.

I think that's important for every person who's building anything. or let alone band guys, but anyone building anything. What do you feel like success looks like or feels like for the next five, seven, ten years? I'mena. And, like my music, my hair changes with me and has to be able to be able to keep my rhythm. For so, Potion Nine, of Sebastian Professional, has all what my hair needs.

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bar records. I feel like we're in a bit of a rebuild phase. Right. It feels right

now that we're on that trajectory where we are building, we're building a bigger fan base. We're getting into bigger

rooms again. And to me, success is that that continues and that what we're doing is continuously heading in that direction. Honestly, like, the fact that my kids are, like, super pumped and love what we do.

Yeah, that's, like, that's, like, the best feeling in the world. That my kids think that what we do is cool. And they wear daughtry shirts to school and they're teenagers. Yeah, they're enjoying it. Yeah. Like, that's like, we did it. Like, that feels like success in and of itself. Yeah.

But yeah, it just, it feels to me like exciting again. It feels like in a way that we're starting over. And I'm so okay with that. Like, it feels like we're earning it again. I feel the same way about my life. I feel like I'm in an earning it stage. Like I'm having to work now. Yeah.

You know, I went for years where it felt like, whatever, like the checks were coming in. and we're touring all the time. The records are selling. And I just thought that that's how the shit rolled. I thought that's how you get a record deal. And of course you sell millions of records. That's not the case.

And now it feels like we're having to work for it and it feels better for some reason. Yeah. I agree. I think when you're doing hard work and you know what you're working for, it's a much more gratifying experience. Absolutely.

Well, how's the tour going? Great. We're about to go back out. In one week, we start with Stained and Breaking Benjamin, awesome. Doing amphitheaters. And then we got, we're headlining in December, this band that's killing it right now,

Sleep Theory. I love Sleep Theory. Yeah, great. I love Sleep Theory. They're dope. Yeah, they're awesome. And they're one of those bands that it's exciting to watch them, you know, start from the ground up.

Yeah. And they're getting the respect. and it, you know, it's hard to cut through the noise for young bands right now. And to see that still happening is exciting, you know, that bands do actually rise to the top. They're not, you know, it's not just this oversaturation of mediocre bands.

There's great ones popping up and getting people's attention, you know. Yeah, like bad omens is a great example. Oh, God, they're killing it. They're killing it, but they set a good example for all those bands. Like if you work hard and you stick to your guns and you make music you love, it takes time to put a brick in the wall every day.

Yeah. But it pays off. I think it's a really exciting time for bands. It's exciting for rock right now. Yeah. What else you want to talk about? It's good for stories. I don't know, man.

The record? Yeah, we're still working on the second half. We kind of split this up into two parts. Cool. It just doesn't feel like there's any rules anymore. Yeah, there's no, there are no rules. We landed on this song artificial, and at the time, pieces was already written,

but this felt so urgent and different than anything we'd ever done before. It was like, let's just put it out now. Like, and then it was, it was terrifying because it was the heaviest thing we've ever released. It was so drastically different than anything we'd ever done before. it was either going to do well or it was going to completely tank and it was our first number one at Rock Radio. So it was like, okay, let's really

press on the gas on this, this lane. Like this is, this is, this feels right. And then it was like, well, why are we rushing this record? We don't need to. Like, let's just release the singles and work on it in the meantime. And then it was like, well, why don't we just do it in two parts? Because we had

half of it pretty much done and nothing started on second half. So So now I'm about 80% done with the second half. I was feeling so good about the first half that it was super daunting to even think about writing the next half. And I just thought it was going to be a bunch of B-sides to finish the project. And somehow I'm even more excited about the second half.

It was one of those things that I went in to the studio. and we just tried not to overthink it. And in the process of doing that, I felt like we were writing even more exciting stuff and things that felt fresh and not just like second or third-rate versions of what we already did. So I'm really excited.

It is daunting. We're making a record. And we haven't made one in seven years. How's that feeling for you? Yeah, it feels the same right. Like riding a bike? A little bit. Yeah.

I'm really excited. The music so far is great. So you've had seven years of a break, which means you've got seven years of life experience that you haven't talked about yet. That's incredible. And stuff bottled up. Yeah. Oh, that's the best. You've got all this lyrical ammo just bubbling at the surface, right? Yeah, and it feels really good when you get it out. Yeah. It's really cathartic when you get it out. Yeah.

That's a good feeling. I love the music. I love the music. I love the music. That's awesome. I have no idea. where it fits. It sits in modern music. But it feels special. And I really love that feeling. That's great. That's awesome.

I can't wait to hear it, man. Oh, dude. I can't wait for you to hear it. Yeah. You have a couple songs I think you'll like. I love that. Yeah. Do you have any kind of projected date?

Are you just going, we're working on this until it feels right? I think we're almost done. Yeah. So I know we have like three or four bangers that we love that I think are ready. Like, we'll start rolling music out. we'll drop a song somewhere in the fall, I think. Full album or EP or? A full album.

Hell yeah. That's exciting. So we have time to like, if anything, there's like one or two question marks on like, do we need one more song? Do we feel like we have? We're looking at all of it right now and we're not trying to overthink it, but like. But like what vibe are we missing kind of thing? Yeah. Are we missing a vibe?

And do we feel like it's done? So we're kind of sitting with not a ton of songs, like 15 songs. That's great. And we just got to pick. Yeah, yeah. We didn't do that. And we're like, okay, which 12 are the ones? And then, like, is that complete? And then... And then you've got your exclusives, your three or four. Yeah, like throw those out somewhere else, you know, like... Man, I've been through the overriding process. That's exhausting. Where you go into an album with like 50 or 60 songs. I hear these bands talk about, oh, we wrote 125, 200 songs. I'm like, how do you even decide what's good anymore?

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, that's, that feels like a lot of work. But I love when you've got that 12 to 15 that you're like, fuck yeah about. Like, this, this feels right. Yeah. And like, it comes to me, it's when you hit that first one where you're like, this is a binger. And then it starts to almost give the album some tone where you're like, that's the song

to beat. Yeah. I got to feel more excited than that one. Yeah. And then that kind of happened. and we got like... And then if it's not, then it's not good enough. Yeah.

Yeah, it's an easy barometer at that point. And then you do that and then like there's one that you're like, it's not good enough and then you go back to it. This is actually kind of special and then you finish it. So like... There's something here that we can, we can, we just need to live with a little bit longer. Yeah. Like, don't throw it out yet.

Yeah. So it's a feeling process. Yeah. And I think we're like 95% done. Man, it's one of my favorite. favorite parts of what we do is just that creative process and that feeling of I'm creating something that wasn't here like minutes ago. Yeah. And I'm just excited about it. And I've been doing this for almost 20 years professionally. And I'm more excited than I've ever been. Yeah. Like,

that's, that's, that's how you know you have, that's how you know you're on the path. I think it's excitement. And like, for me, I know we made a record because I'm excited for it to come out. That's awesome, man. I want people to hear it. I love that for you, man. And that's the feeling. Yeah. It's like, it can't be indifference. I wish everyone could experience that in their life in some way, that feeling of, I just made something that wasn't here. Well, they can. Yes, they can. But they want them to experience that because it really fuels life. Yes. It is, it is, it's like the carrot dangling in front of you to keep fucking going.

It's exactly why people play games. A little bit of that. And I think if you want to have that, you have to search. Yeah. So everybody out there that doesn't have, you know, that aspect of their life built out yet has to go on a search of, like, like personal interest. Yeah.

Because I think everybody has something to offer. They just have to, and somewhere, you know, everyone's different, but somewhere along the line, if that gets beaten out of you, yeah, you lose that connection to it. Yeah, and you lose the idea that it's worth trying. Or some people never even get to know what that is, whether it was beaten out of them or they just never figured it out. and I do believe we're all creators of some sort.

Something. And whether it's music, whether it's film, whether it's art, whether it's... Or computer programming, like building apps, like whatever. I think we're supposed to do things. To do something that brings something from nothing, you're right? Yeah. And the feeling of purpose, like, I just created this. Whether it's just a...

I don't know. I'm sure I can think of many elegant ways of... of saying that, but I do think that we owe it to ourselves as people to figure that out, whatever that is. And if someone's out there listening to this and they just feel completely lost, it's because you haven't figured that out yet. Yeah, just, I would say the same thing. Just allow yourself to be interested in some things and see where that goes. Yeah. And interest usually leads to some form of like discovery. Yes. And then you discover a talent maybe that you didn't know you had, or a passion.

But we're lucky because we get music. Yeah. And music is the soundtrack for life. And certainly a lot of the good moments in life. You know, it was funny. We had an experience this weekend. We, well, I didn't, I wasn't the leader of this group, but we crashed a wedding. And it's awesome.

It's something that my wife. And no one you knew. No one. That's amazing. It's something that my wife will do on occasion. Oh, that's awesome. And if she sees a wedding party happening, if we're in a hotel, usually it's like one of these hotels, right? Right, right, right.

You happen to be there. It was her sister's, her little sister's birthday. And we had this dinner, and then there was a wedding party going on. Yeah, I'm dying to know the first move here. Well, she goes, my wife goes, oh, yeah, we saw them in the lobby. They were taking pictures or something. Right. And she goes, they were really nice.

We should go. and then I'm like, no, we should not. Because if I'm either the groom or the father of the bride or the groom or just the best man or any person related to that group, I'm going to be protective. If somebody comes into our party, I'm going to like, no, no, no, guys. Who are you? So I was like, no, we should not. And actually all the men at the table, my brother-in-law, we were like, what do you guys,

the girls started talking about it and they started feeling like a real plan. Yeah, yeah. Because dinner was wrapping up and they had now been talking about it for like a half hour and dinner was wrapping up. And I was like, no, no, no, we should go home. And they're like at this point like you're grumpy. Like I'm the grumpy like no, no, I'm already feeling what you're feeling. I'm like, no, no, no, no.

What are you guys talking about? And they're like, and there's like all the girlfriends are there. Oh, that'll be fun. We should go. Then they go. And we stayed at the table to wrap it up. And then also kind of like, wait, what are, what they just went? Yeah.

And then about 30 minutes, they haven't come back. I was like, maybe they'll come back. It doesn't feel, is this real? And then. And you guys are developing an extraction plan at this point. Yeah, we're like, I'm so sorry, guys. Yeah, we're like, so like, like they're obviously then my brother-in-law gets a text, we're here, come.

Yeah. And it's in the hotel. So it's like a two minute walk. Like it's three minute walk, whatever. So then I'm also trying to make sense of it because it's a, my wife's a little crazy in that sense. Like sometimes you're like, are you joking? Right.

Or are you? And I was like, maybe they're just at the hotel bar, right? And completely sober. Maybe the girls weren't. They're not in the bar. And then we go in. And there's this elaborate hall. Like they made this like walkway.

hall into like this beautiful entrance to this party. Yeah. And then you go in and it's like tented. They tinted some area. And they must have spent a ton of money on this wedding. There's like food everywhere. There's people walking around with in and out burgers. It's like it's very nice.

Yeah, yeah. And there is my wife on stage with the wedding band dancing. And the entire bridal party is like around her. and her sister and then all the girls, they're all like dancing and I was mortified. It was a good vibe. They were like Texas people. Yeah, yeah.

Everybody was drinking. Everyone's having fun. So I was relieved by that. What struck me the most, though, while I was sitting there on the outside, I definitely did not get into it. I like stood on the outside, waited for my wife. She had like dropped her jacket I noticed on the like floor with her like purse. It was weird.

I was like, so I picked that stuff up. So I was holding it because I was like, she just threw it. Yeah, yeah. So I was holding her. I was holding her coat. I was watching this all go down. I did not partake of any food. I didn't feel that was the right.

He's posting up over here eating the snacks. Yeah, everyone was nice. Talk to a few people. Yeah. Whatever. Like this guy came up to me and he goes, so do you guys do this a lot? And I was like, do what? And he was like, do what?

And he was like, so we're definitely crashing this wedding. I said, no, I don't. And anyways, they were all having fun, but what struck me was the music. And I think, you know, long way around to the point of what we get to do, but they were singing song after song. She eventually got off stage and they were all dancing. And like, you know, those, it was like a lively dance floor.

And then they think they were like doing shots. It was like a wedding party. Yeah, yeah. Like they were having a good time. And these people were fantastic. What struck me, though, was music. Yeah. Music makes the party.

They were playing hit after hit after hit. And everybody was in a good mood. Here comes these wedding crashers. They're in here. Remove all that. And it's a boring ass party. Yeah. Right?

With some good food. Yeah, yeah. But what I walked away with after we finally got her out of there, I was like, it's like 12 o'clock. The party was in full swing. They probably went till two or three. Yeah, yeah. As I watch a room, I tend to just like watch everything.

And the biggest thing that struck. me was watching this group of people that didn't know each other have a great time together singing that song singing that song brings people together brings us all together no one was talking about politics yeah no one was talking about a bunch of issues that we couldn't solve that night right but you can both agree that this song fucking slaps this song is great let's sing it again i don't know if i agree or disagree with it but when you're married to someone you show up and you go along and you you try to manage situation. But I saw these people in this joyful moment celebrating these two people getting married, making memories. And it was music that struck me the hardest in that big,

beautiful room, good vibes. It was the songs. They were singing along. No one was saying that's not rock or that's not real country or that's not. They were just, it was, and it was all like modern hits and stuff. And everybody was singing along and I was going like, this is what music does. You know, it's crazy? That reminds me of one of the weirdest lineups we were on. Yeah. But it was in Germany. Yeah, well, Germany is... Where nobody cares about genre. It was us in the Backstreet Boys. Oh, that's cool. And we're playing this rock set, and then they go on and play their stuff. And the fans were there for both of it. I fuck with that. Yeah. I would do that.

Yeah, they were, they loved, like, they were singing every one of our songs. And there was no, like, that's not fucking pop or that's not fucking rock. No, no. It was just cared about music. And I wish it was more like that here. I wish it wasn't so gatekeepery with genre. You know what I mean? And I don't think it's groups.

It's not the artist. Well, I have a theory. Okay. Let's hear it. A party is only as good. And this is why I knew I liked the people of the wedding they crashed. The Texas folks. So they were all very nice, by the way.

a party is only as good as the people throw in it. So if I'm a promoter, I think I have to set, I have to frame the party. I have to set the tone of the party. And so if- You have to know what they're getting into. Yeah, I think it's something like that. Like, it's something like that. It's like, if we go to a wedding, we know we're all going to be celebrating.

If we go to our birthday, we know we're going to be celebrating. If we go to some metal fest, yeah, right? There are great metal festivals. Right. And then there are metal fest where the tone of the whole thing is who's the heaviest. Right. And only one band gets to be the heaviest.

That is true. And the rest of you suck. So I think there's something like inviting a good time. Yeah. Versus forcing a good time or even having a good time. And I think people at metal festivals are having a good time. Yeah. But I do think there's something like.

like, what are we doing here? Why are we here? What are we celebrating? It matters a little bit. So I do think that like, even when we plan our tours, you do it whether you realize you're doing it or not. Because you're responsible for your fans and the time they're have. So when you put that bill together,

you're going like, what is the best ticket possible I could give these people? That's true. Yeah. Because they're spending their hard-earned money. They're spending their time. And you're thinking, every band thinks this way, or 99% of us.

We're not thinking like, how much money am I going to make off this tour? No, no one really gets that part. They think like, oh, you're just playing. The money is a factor because you have to actually be able to do it. Yeah, buses are expensive. That's it. You've got to be able to pay for everything so that you can do it. And if you make some money, great, because then you can do it again.

If you don't make money, you can only do that so many times before you have to stop. Yeah. So what bands are actually doing is, curating your wedding party or your birthday party because a lot of people are coming for their birthday or for this or for that. So like you're actually curating the party and so you're trying to give people the best bang for your buck that you could possibly stand. And then you're working through some bands are like, hey, do you want to come play? And they're like, you can't afford it. You're like, we actually just can't afford it. Or we can't. You know, you're like measuring how much value can I pack into this

so that the fans come, they have the best night possible. That's why I like cover songs. That's a great way of looking at it. I want to throw a cover song in my set. Oh, yeah, all the time. You know? All the time. Give them a little something else to sing along to.

And remind us all that great songs, it's not just about us. It's about this whole thing that we get to be a part of. So I think that's why festivals are also fun. Oh, yeah. The good ones are really fun. Yeah. I think at the end of the day, I'm always a fan. band first. So that's one of my favorite things to do is play festivals because I get to see

bands that I love and that I, you know, we don't get a chance to see a lot of bands when we're touring, you know, we don't get a chance to see shows. So that's kind of our chance to do that. It is. Thanks for coming, man. Dude, thank you for having me. This is awesome, bro. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of artist friendly. If you really liked it, You can follow, like, subscribe to the show, anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support. And we'll see you next time.