Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Chris Robinson of The Black Crowes

Episode Date: March 11, 2026

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Chris Robinson of The Black Crowes. Following 2024’s Happiness Bastards, the Black Crowes got straight to work. In early 2025, the Robinson brothers traveled to Nashville to reunite with producer Jay Joyce and build on the momentum of their last album. The resulting A Pound of Feathers captures a similar energy, full of swaggering rock that, as Robinson tells it, “hits harder, more jagged, but is still true to our musical essence.” Before heading out on an extensive tour, the frontman stopped by the Artist Friendly studio for a conversation about grief, rebuilding the Black Crowes, and making their newest record in under two weeks. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman ------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I've said it, but, you know, my dear friend Todd Schneider, who's a singer-songwriter, passed away at the end of last year in a very tragic, tragic fashion. And this record will always have a certain poignancy for me because he was a real singer-songwriter, a real folk hero, a real weirdo, man, in the best way. Yeah. And Todd and I had a relationship revolving around poetry that I don't have with a lot of people. but he was like can I come down the studio a couple days and I was like yeah man and he was just like how do you guys communicate without saying anything it's like weird it's like is this ESP is this magic

what is it and I'm like because we work my brother's more put together so rich you know when we come up but I'm like not put together so I'm like dude that and I'm for a whole life he's like this is the chorus I'm like that's the verse yeah yeah yeah and that intro that's the core you know what I mean? So I'm arranging stuff. And Rich is trying to keep up with me. Also, he's got his thing. But we work really quickly. And I'm sure it's the same with your brother. After a long time, we don't have to talk. I can just be like, and he knows or he can do something. Exactly. And we don't have. And it just starts to like go and go and build and build. And yeah, so eight days later, we were kind of finished. And I was teasing with Jay, Joyce, our producer. He was like,

well, that's it. I was like, you want us to come on Monday? We'll make another one. Yeah. Yeah. It was like that kind of vibes. Yeah. And I have to say that I've sat in studios now since the 80s with my brother and I've done thousands of concerts with him. It's his hands down to me the most spectacular music that he's played. The guitar stuff he was doing. The solo. I was just like, wow, man, Rip, this is, to me, this record is really, Rich's masterpiece. You live in L.A., right? I've been here forever.

Yeah. Me too. Well, I mean, I was in New York, and then I'd move back, and then I was in Marin County for a little while. Oh, yeah, that's nice. And then we were in Telly Ride for a while. My wife's from NorCal, so. Okay.

She likes the weather. She was born and bred to hate it here. Right. People from Southern California always get excited if they take a trip up north. Oh, yeah. one up north will ever come down south unless there's like some they have to yeah which is hilarious it's more work yeah and there's still you know i spent a lot of time in the grateful dead world and like the late phil lash was always super serious about well i mean from like central california to southern

oregon we should be our own state there are a lot of people that i think think about that in California because if people don't live in California, they don't, maybe they wouldn't understand what we're talking about. But you do feel a divide. I'd say Santa Barbara is the tip of Southern California and it feels a little NorCal, but you, it's still. Yeah, yeah, it starts to be central. I mean, people, it's a huge place. So within just the size, there's, you know, regional identities. Yeah. You know, which is funny because in the corporate scheme of things and as the world removes us, from our regional identities. You know, I'm Southern person.

I'm from Atlanta. I'm from, you know, that's some asshole the other day. Go, that's not Southern. I was like, what fuck are you talking about? Yeah, Georgia is pretty southern. Check out the map. Yeah.

You could drive to Alabama. You could drive. Like Atlanta is a, I like to think of it as a centralized kind of location for the South in the sense of like a culture was built there where there's a music industry. now there's a lot of metropolitan things. Almost 8 million people there.

Yeah, but it's Southern. When I left in 89, really, when we made our first record, it was a big thing. But when it went to 3 million people, like in 1988, 89, like our whole scene, the whole music scene, art scene, my friend J.T. had this thing called the Mud Shack every month. And it was like a poetry reading thing. and everyone with their poems were always getting like, I live in a city of three million people.

I'm like, you know, it was like as if it was a big deal. Yeah, it was a big deal. And now, I mean, it's, I don't recognize. I mean, I'm, I don't really care about, I don't identify as a Southern person in the way that, that I know other people do. And the South is, it's funny, I was just reading this book. It's a history of the United States as,

by the original regions. Oh, that's cool. It's really good. I love that kind of stuff. And mind-blowing, you know, it's mind-blowing the myth that, you know, the creation myth of the United States. There's many different narratives and many different stories, but we chose the Puritan one. Yeah.

Which is still wreaking havoc with people today. We see it today. You know what I mean? We see a lot of our fear and ignorance and negativity coming from these people. who were asked to leave an England and a Europe where you're being, they didn't leave like on their own. They were like, you guys got to go in a, in a Europe that's still burning witches and stuff. These people are too far out. You know what I mean? As an Atlanta is really progressive place, man. Yeah, I mean, maybe, I mean, not perfect. But the ripples of like the progressive

racial attitudes. And of course, the business people in Atlanta, Coca-Cola was a huge thing, you know. But people always say, I'm like, you know, I mean, I didn't have anything to do with it, but the place was burned to the ground, you know? Yeah. You have two ways to go with that as the leaders or whatever.

And they decided that's why Atlanta has a huge Jewish population. A lot of gay people and queer people, always in Atlanta. And that black people, because of, of the black universities there. You know, the black middle class had so much more power, economic power, and social power that they used to say Atlanta's the city too busy to hate, you know. It's like in L.A., I feel like, and I do want to ask about Atlanta, but I will say in

relationship to that, I lay, I feel like you grow, if you grow up here, which I didn't, but I have tons of friends who did, I've been here for 20 years now. So I feel like I'm in the inner community of people who grew up in L.A., which is close. off when you first get here. You're like, the people who live here are different than the people who move here and got married, raised kids, got to know some people. And I noticed like everyone grew up knowing someone whose parent was famous or owned that big company or did that. And they all grew up with this idea. In some ways, I think is really good. In some ways could be really limiting to what you, the freedom you have, which I agree with you on growing up. I mean, it's your perspective

of what that is, everything is duality, I mean, in that way. So I completely, like, like both things are true. Yeah, but it really depends on what you do with the experience and the information.

Right. You know what I mean? Totally. Given another set of circumstance, would we have been more business savvy? We just wanted to make record, you know what I mean? We wanted to make a record.

Right. You know what I mean? We wanted to go on tour. Right. You know what I mean? We didn't really, there was nothing. involved in any of it that would have pointed to and or dictated, like getting on a 40-year

career of doing it. I mean, we kind of thought, like, most of the bands that we love, you've make some music and then you go out, and if you're real, and it's good, that it blows up in your face anyway, or that, you know, that just wasn't a thing. I think here you would maybe have access to see the sort of building blocks for careers and things and to see what you could really get out of it in terms of the material.

Materialistic sort of world. We were like money. You know what I mean? Like as long as... Yeah. You know, as long as we were completely out of control at all times, that's what we were looking for.

At least that's what I was looking for. I would say probably, though, that was a really good thing because when I look at your band and I look at the span of your career and I look at back, but I was listening to the live record from last year that you did at the Greek. Jimmy Page. Yeah. Yeah.

That shit blew my mind. Yeah. It was so good. In a time where you don't, listen, I think live is back in a big way where people want to experience music and it's great. But in a time where bands haven't necessarily been toiling over the. their live show over the last 10 to 15 years. If you, if you really, if we really put it on a wall and analyze like the craft of live

where you're not forcing. Craft is the word, you know, that's the. Right. And it's something you got to kind of toil over and then you go out on stage and let it happen. But there is some, there is something about a presence live versus like forcing something live. I mean, that's, yeah. I mean, we hardly could ever be that clever. Right, but there's something that's,

but that's the thing is like at the highest level, if you look at something, and it might be that the person who's delivering that, expressing themselves, your band is unique to this. And I'd say there's a very small category of bands that can do this. You could play on stage with Jimmy Page.

It's completely natural. It's executed at the highest level from a listener perspective. as a person, I love music and I feel more like a fan. I've always felt more like a fan watching. But when I see people executing at a high level and I'm inspired, it's not that I go, I could never do that. I couldn't do it because it's a different animal.

Of course, of course. And so I listen to that and I just marvel at it because it's just hard to accomplish those moments and they're alive. And they're not like orchestrated to happen. And it's like you're watching something. It's not put together in that way. It's, I mean, it's cliche to say at this point in time. It's cliche because people love to throw terms around.

It's organic. But if you're saying it sometimes, then that doesn't necessarily mean that's what it is. I mean, in our case, you know, it was funny because we start out like, well, my dad had a top 40 hit in the 50s with like a Bobby Darren kind of rock and roll song. boom, my dad did. Yeah, my dad was a singer. Oh, wow. And then in the early 60s, he was a folk singer. He was in a folk duo called the Appalachians that were on ABC Paramount Records who made a couple of singles.

So it wasn't out of the, you know what I mean? So there's a musical thing there. But by the time Rich and I want to make music, we don't watch MTV and we don't listen to 96 rock or whatever in Atlanta. We're like, oh, you know what I mean? We're like X and the gun club. club and we're like the English music and, you know, from the clash and the pistols and stuff. But now we're into Echo and the Bunnyman and now we're into this. And the first concert, the first shows I could go to were like all ages, punk shows, you know.

And so this is the early 80s. So we're kind of at ground zero for like the whole hardcore thing. And that was really the energy of that and the DIY part of that. And that we were outsider kids living in a suburban thing where. other kids are listening to Van Halen records or they're listening to whatever is on MTV. You know what I mean? Cool, good. Whatever gets you through the night, you know.

But for us, to come from this background, but we loved records and I loved records. And I liked Bob Dylan just as much as I liked Joe Strummer. And I saw like there was a connection. I agree with that. And I liked Moes Allison records. And I liked jazz and bluegrass. and my first records are all funk records. You know, I only listen to V103 FM in Atlanta.

This is before hip hop becomes the main catalyst for like black culture and what's happening in that world. You know, my first concert is Cool and the Gang and Slave at the Omni. And I went to see Slave because I was a huge fan of Steve Arrington singing, you know, and I loved all those records and stuff. But by the time we start playing, we're not playing that music man you know i'm obsessed with prince and the time and like all this stuff and my man we can't we're not doing that you know what i mean like we're not doing that that is on

another level of of something right but by the time like we get to like fucking around the punk stuff and the cramps were really huge for us we could play goo gogo muk in the garage like after a couple of days. But we would also could play the birds or buffalo, you know, we liked all this kind of stuff, but when we allowed ourselves to start letting the roots music in, the stuff that really

is deeply embedded in us, which is also part of my dad having those records. It makes total sense to me when you tell me about your dad. I said, I didn't know that. Now I can almost quickly identify what you were absorbing at a young age before

you even knew you were listening to it through probably him and what he was around. They had a lot of records, you know, records are, I've been collecting records since I was 12 years old. Vinyl. Vinyl records. It's, it's, it's an ugly, ugly habit. Are you looking for like first editions and things like that? Yeah, but I'm more, I'm more just about having what I have to have more so than getting wrapped up about that. But yeah, I mean, as the years have gone by, which is funny because when I met my wife before

we were married. She was the hippest chick I ever, she had the best record collection I've ever seen thousands of records, you know. Wow. But I think it was about my mom, my mom too, you know what I mean? So it was like, oh, both my mom and dad had the same Jimmy Reed records because like kids in the 60s and shit, they would write their names on the records when you go to a party or something. You'd bring your records over and you wanted to know which ones were yours. Yeah. I think the point of what I'm saying is that we had like my mom and dad probably had 300 records okay so I read something not too long ago that the average American family at that era maybe had five to 10 records and you would have them on that little like metal stand by your stereo and you would put them on so that alone my

parents had so many records for me as a as a little weirdo dyslexic kid who wasn't really relating on a lot of levels with other things. That music, it didn't, and until to this day, I don't care if I'm listening to Julian Bream playing Elizabethan lute music. It sounds new to me. And when it's happening, it's alive and it's real. And it's changing what I need.

I need it. You know what I mean? I need it just like I know what I want to eat or if I need something that's going to feel a certain way. Or if I want drugs. or alcohol or whatever it is at those moments that you need. It's never about escapism. It was always more about making something more alive and more vibrant.

So to have the, you know, and all of this is in regards to, you know, the first time we hang out with Jimmy Page were playing the Royal Albert Hall. And I had had, when I was a kid on our first tour, I had to open for Stephen Tyler and Robert Plant like back to back as like a front man, you know um and robert was steve they're both amazing and and i see stephen much more than robert but robert brings jimmy down to the royal albert hall and we're like of course we're like it's you know as if being friends with robert plant was normalized right you got used to that

yeah yeah yeah well it's robert yeah yeah but jimmy comes down and back then you know we have a big stereo system in the dressing room and we're always playing music and stuff and i'm and I had a big case with like maybe, I don't know, 200 CDs in it or whatever that would go everywhere. We didn't have a turntable. And so the case is open and Jimmy's like, can I look at CDs? You know what this is? You got, you have this because he's really into records too. And that kind of was another way for us to, then he saw the show.

But that we, you know, so many, you'll meet so many people and I love Led Zeppelin, but, our love of the same things, a generation away, you know, in age, but my love of the same things that Jimmy loved when he was a kid really was a big part of the bonding. You know what I mean? And so that, oh, you know what I mean? Like you could get a lot of dudes who want to play Led Zeppelin, but they probably don't listen to the music that made Led Zeppelin in the same way.

It's like a language you speak that is hard. to learn and it's not something you can explicitly learn either. It's a weird. You got to feel understanding. And within the feeling, I think being able to, you're right, though, you have to learn, the language is important part of, I mean, music is language. Yeah. You know, people also throw the word authentic around a lot. Authentic is a word, yeah. They love to use that word. But I think it's the feel of things. And I think one of the issues I have with young bands, I work

with a lot of young bands and I still we go out and try to see as much music as I can. It seems like the feel it, you know what I mean? It's like ultimately we didn't learn to, my brother didn't learn go to, we never had a lesson. I didn't go to a vocal lesson. He didn't go to a guitar lesson. He didn't

learn shit from YouTube. He sat down and started playing guitars and oh well why does nick drake sound like this because he's in open tunings and we you know we love keith richards keith richards in open tunings stephen stills plays in open tunings so my brother would figure out this is before you know he didn't ask anyone he just had to figure it out and i think those kind of things are something that it's like the artists who paint they just paint yeah they didn't go to art school to learn how to paint or if they did go to art school. Sometimes they learned all these things just to be able to toss them aside and kind of find your own vision, your own what the textural world feels like. Well, there's a feel I'd say

throughout your entire catalog that would be very hard to explain, recreate. In fact, I would say if we just zoom out and say in relationship to your 40 year career, which is very hard to accomplish. Yeah, that's crazy. Plenty of people quit and you go, I know why I understand. I kind of am jealous of you. Like there's something that calls you to keep doing what you're doing and you can't explain it.

Because if you could quit, you would kind of because it's hard in a way like the torture of sometimes needing to do something and you make a record and sometimes you're not satisfied with it. And then you, like, there is a lot of different experiences here where I tell people with music sometimes when someone's like, how do I, you know, a kid walks in and they're 18 and like, how do I do this? And you're like, all right, what would you, what advice would you give me? And I, my first thing I would say is, don't do it unless you have to, because you're going to give more than you get if you're really in this. And if the given's better than you're getting.

Yeah. Exactly. So, but I would say that if we zoom out and we, and we look at your legacy, your career, I'd say that very few bands could, you know, have a 40-year career, but then also hold a space in music that feels like, there's not a lot of bands that can deliver the live rock and roll that feels like, to me,

carrying a torch of a certain kind of music that's not, you see bands do it and you kind of go like, it feels like, we were never chasing whatever, whatever. Right, but you, it was you, you were it. Yeah, yeah. And that you could feel that. Like, and then you're from Atlanta. So you kind of like, for me, I'm like, I can hear the country. I can hear the old rhythm and blues. I can hear the soul. I can hear the gospel. I can hear all that stuff all in there, the funk. And so then when you tell me you were listening to the records, now I'm like,

oh, now I always love these conversations because I get a little insight into like the music I've heard and then it makes my imagination run away and I enjoy it even more. Right, right. Because I almost could be there the moment you were in the bedroom or the garage and you played that guitar lick or you said that. I mean, it's weird because it is, it's a funny thing to also to have diverse interest in music. You know what I mean?

Like I'm never, you know, to me, maybe, you know, like my real loves are like Thelonius monk is one of my great pleasures in life, something that. always makes me feel something and my imagination, my soul. But I'm never, you know, we're never going to, is it in there somewhere? I don't know about that. But when I think about, you know, it's funny, we grew up, like, REM was really important, especially the very first few R&M records. Chronic Town, Murmur, Reckoning, especially those, because we were there, Ground Zero.

You were there for the, yeah. In Atlanta. That's so cool. And we were like, I mean, dude, are you kidding? Like, Pete Buck. I still see him and I get, I go back to like, I'm like, I'm cool with Jimmy Page. Pete Buck. I'm like, oh, you know what I mean?

Yeah. It was also, you know, the other thing I don't, I think that was cool about being from Atlanta is the dreaming. We had so much dreaming. And I'm dyslexic, crazy person. Me too. I don't really deal. And it's hard.

You know what I mean? It wasn't hard to be for teachers to say. He's stupid. You're lazy. I always got. You're lazy. Yeah, you can't do it. I knew that what I knew.

And my mother, she was good. She was like, well, I don't know what this is, but we're going to figure it out. So being in the deep south in the early 70s and being like me, they were like, what is wrong? Your parents were very supportive? They were supportive, not about music, but they were supportive of like me not thinking that he's the dumbest kid in the class. What would they have rather you done bus sites music? Anything. Okay. But that's because they had that life and they didn't want it for you. Part of it, you know, which is hard, actually. It was hard to deal with my dad was a really,

my dad's a big guy and I think he was definitely resentful and angry that things didn't happen for him. But Big Stan hasn't been with us for a while, but he wasn't a weird. I mean, my dad, looking back is probably weirder or whatever than we thought, but he was a rugby player and he, he was a tough guy you know he was aggressive and right uh intimidating and big well likely grew up in a time where you had to be kind of yeah especially in the south yeah and i think that he but but my dad wasn't he didn't have the creative spirit that drove rich and i into this which was the writing you know what i mean so we kind of he wasn't a reader he didn't like he didn't like strange you know what i mean And ever since I can remember, I was always like, okay, that's cool.

But what's weird? You know, I like, get weirder. Yeah, I want to, I like weird. Yeah. Even before I did psychedelics, I knew, you know, and I was obsessed with them, you know, like reading and, right, you were interested in psychedelics? Yeah. Or did you do them for the first time.

Uh, I did them. It must have been 86, maybe. So before the band. Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. Which was amazing as well because I was with, uh, was it like, was it like, acid like we took shrooms for the first time okay with all my friends who were in bands now shrooms are so normal it's normal for people to take a little yeah like a micro dose i'm gonna take a little

bit i you know what i call it i call it the cowards dose oh cowards though yeah but i don't feel good the world is yeah i'm gonna take a little bit a little micro dose i'm like man oh my god by the 60s during the acid revolution they used to say a mind blown is a mind shown you know i wanted to blow my mind yeah i wanted to fucking walk around the pond i wanted to be at the bottom so you went all the way the first time you the first time you took mushrooms you went all the way you tripped i was yes yes but it was also lovely and i always think back with such fun remembrance because my friends were so rad man my friends who had already done it done it and they were and my friends were they were My friends were bad.

But, you know, they were in bands too. But I remember having my first moment of, oh, this. And they were like, oh, it's, you know, it's being so kind. They were good guides. Amazing. Yeah. And it really. You need that, I think.

Yes. Yes. And it really set the stage for. And it's, and I can look at it. And it's indicative of that scene we came from. Yeah. When we were all kids and everyone wanted, you know, I try to explain the kids. Everything was bands, man.

You know, like, it wasn't a, you know, we didn't have money to go to the basketball game to see the Hawks or whatever. It was bands. Man, I got to get on the guest list. You get five people, you're like, man, are you coming? You know, like this whole, but everybody was in a band. And if you weren't in a band, you were making this stage or you were making art, or you were poets, or you were junkies or whatever was going on.

Were you a poet as well? I mean, that's what I have a hard, when I use the word poet, I use it in a real classic term. Like you wrote some poetry. Well, that's how I get involved. That's the only reason that I even thought that we could do this is because, okay, so now, you know, Rich is playing guitar. And I didn't know I could sing. And my dad definitely told me you can't sing. Wow.

Yeah. As a matter of fact, if you want to hear the Southern colloquialism that my father used, I would love to. He said, you can't carry a tune from the well to the house in a fucking bucket. Yeah. And I said, all right. And he goes, if you want to be fucking Mick Jagger, you could get the fuck out of my house. Wow.

And which was funny because my brother, it was fine. Right. Like, he was cool to live in the house. So your dad was okay with the guitar. It was more, it wasn't even about the guitar. It was just more about I represented something. Not only was I interested in. that kind of stuff.

But I represented that to him. Right, because you were walking it. You were living it. Yeah. Before you were the lead singer of the Black Crows, you were the lead singer already because you were walking around living in everything. And I had the ideas. Yeah, you were being yourself.

Yeah. And sometimes I think that's interesting too because sometimes we don't fit in anywhere until we get this band thing right? In the early 80s in Atlanta, the dead Kennedys now is something everyone's like, Yeah, cool. Back then, people would be like, you can't say that or something. The best hardcore band Atlanta is Neon Christ. I had on my, I had a little Volkswagen rabbit and I had two bumper stickers. Neon Christ and the monkeys. I had a stack of Neon Christ stickers because anytime I was out in the suburbs, someone would rip it off the car. Because it was offensive to them for some reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's cool, though, when you, you know, this individual and, you know, I was a little bit the same way. I didn't fit in because I just didn't want to be like everyone else.

So I found differentiating myself made me feel better. Of course. And you find your tribe. You find your little people. You find the other kid who knows what that record is or that pin you have. Yeah. I mean, I went to high school with the first time I wore black Chuck Taylor's. They were like, what are you gay dude?

I'm like gay. either. No. You've not seen the Ramones? They wear the... Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? They were like,

some guy in like a... The band Alabama, you know? They would like, all the rednecks would wear like Alabama. Like a Hank Jr. Sure. They wouldn't want to like kick your ass. Yeah.

It was real back then. You would get beat up. Dude, in Atlanta, if you were like, walk down the street and a million dead, million dead cop shirt, someone's pulling over to punch you in the face. Yeah. What's that mean?

Yeah. Yeah. It's a band. I like. So, at the time your dad is kind of you probably felt some rejection in that way of course I mean of course did you guys ever did was he proud of you after like you had the success was proud of me after and of us but it also it was a weird thing to navigate because of our

relationship his jealousy of it was weird to navigate because you you know you like to think you know, and I have two kids, you know, and I'd like to think I've been far more accepting. But there is this phase in your life, no matter what, where your parents really are, you know, the Godhead of what's going on. I was just to say that. It's like God. And, you know, when I was, before I let it all go, I was an athlete. You know what I mean?

I played Little League football. I was the littlest, croniest kid out there, but I would mix it up. Yeah, you were pretty good. I'd look over and my dad would be like, that's cool. Yeah. My dad would make me go do martial arts and you fight some other kid in a tournament. And they look at it. I was like, are we going to hit each other?

Yeah. And he was proud of that. Did you enjoy that stuff? Or did you enjoy making him proud? I did like playing football. Yeah. And I played soccer before that. And then I played high school basketball.

I liked basketball because my dad didn't ever, didn't know anything about basketball. Right. That's interesting. Yeah, but it's a certain, you know, it's like anything else, you know, 12 to 13. and then 16 to 17. Yeah. And then by then, I'm, you know, the reading, you know what I mean? My mom and dad, luckily my mom sent me to a school when I was younger.

I would go regular school. And then three days a week I went to, it's an unfortunate name. But he was called Dr. Skanks. And it was the Skank School. It's still in Atlanta. But they, I went and it was, you know, looking back, it was other kids are doing other shit. I'm at go to school or go to another school.

But they, they turned my thing around so I could read. Right. That was every, it's still everything to me. And then you like really found, everything, all I, it's my, it's so boring.

All I do is read. But it was incredibly important because it opened up an entire world to me. You know what I mean? It opened up an entire world of, yes, and my interests are varied and my, and I'm a deep dive,

you know what I mean? I can tell. I don't, there's no, nothing surface about anything that I'm interested in. That's just the way I am. So by the time I'm, you know, okay, cool, I like Edgar Allan Poe. I like this Franz Kafka stuff. You know, oh, I like these poets, Gregory Corso. But once I get to the beats and I get to Kerouac and Ginsburg and Gregory Corso and then I start to find my way to Nelson Algren and all these other like things,

wow, man, you know, I mean, millions, millions of people read on the road, which by the way, I don't even like anymore that much, but realize when Jack Kerouac says, I knew I wanted to get out in the world with all the mad people, all the wild, you know, and that was, I mean, even my mom one time, like, being furious, like, you don't have to live like the, you're, are you copying the books you're reading? I'm like, mom, I'm not copying anything. They're inspiring for me to know that the world is full of adventure. The world is out there. of experience and poetry and also full of disappointment and pain and sorrow. Like, I'm not afraid. I was never afraid. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. And yeah, you're afraid. I don't want people to get sick. Whatever. There's like human things. The pain and suffering of life. There's a healthy fear of all of that of what's to come. But it can't be a, it can't limit your experience. I agree. And I think whereas my parents probably bless them. I had a great life.

You know what I mean? They didn't beat me up. I had food. You know what I mean? I mean, if my worst experience was that I always couldn't understand why they would have moved to the suburbs, we can work with that. Yeah, I think that to look back at our parents and analyze or reflect what or how they did something and how we related to it at the time is important because I feel the same way about my parents and they were a mess if I'm being honest. If I look at it and I said if we put that.

But why would you, why, why put it in any other thing if that's your experience out of pleasantries? Yeah. Out of etiquette. I mean, that's another thing. Exactly. I don't feel. That's very southern by the way.

Yeah. Well, I did for a very long time grow up having to tell the story. Because you don't want to say that. You don't want to be class. You want to be classy. You want to stay buttoned up. And so if you hear me talk about it in, in public or to a strange. I'll say the top line, oh, my parents are great. I love them. They worked hard. And I say

the good aspects of I could try to pull out the good. And then if I'm talking to someone and relating to them, I'll tell you, you know, my parents were a mess. They struggled to keep the, very broadly speaking. They struggled to keep their shit together. They struggled to do a lot of things. In the end, the family blew up and it was dysfunctional. And my dad left when I was 13, 14. My mom struggled with health, mental health. And you look at it and you go, Yeah, those are people who were struggling to function. Yeah. And I love my parents.

My dad passed away. You're allowed to, you're allowed to as an adult. You're allowed as a young person to be able to look at it for what it is. And the story. And still love them. And still love them. And still love them.

And forgive them. And yet for me, that's not hard. Like, I'm not mad at any, or anything. But I had to go kind of work on it a little bit to learn and understand. But I think the story that I live with has to be the truth.

Of course. so that I can function from a place of truth. Look, I always think it's funny. I told Camille, my wife, we were talking about when I went out for the first year in eighth grade, seventh grade or something, I go, I want to play football. And you have to be 90 pounds or something. And I'm like 83 pounds. And my dad took me out to the thing where they, and he came over to me and they weigh you

to see. And my dad goes, all right, you can do the way in with all your cleats and pads and helmet and stuff. I was like, all right. And he goes, I still don't think you're going to hit 90. And I said, he goes, come here. And he took a brick from the parking lot and put it in my helmet. And I had my shoulder pads on, but he took my jersey off and he put the, so you couldn't see there was a brick in the helmet. He goes, stand on there. They were like, he made it. And my wife's like, that's abuse. I'm like, you know what I mean? I was like, I was like, let me in. You know, but he was like, yeah, man, come by the car and he put a rock in my helmet. It was a different time.

Yeah, totally. It was a different time. But, you know, to, you know, to. look back and understand your dad as just another guy. Well, we had, you know, we survived so much shit. It's funny to look back. Like, the first 10 years of the Black Crows are the, that's the fucking wilderness, you know. Right. So by the, when we end up, you know, by our fourth album, which is time's funny now. People like, wow, that record, people write about them. Now like, this record was misunderstood but it's something i'm like yeah thanks yeah it always when there's a lot of money on the table then that's when the people around you your team you know that's when they start they know they know better than you i'm like yeah yeah yeah and then if you're like us then you can get uh that's

when you start to worm your way and worm your way into me and my brother we it wasn't easy to to fuck with us because we're so different and rich was in hey man i i didn't realize about i knew i was dyslexic i didn't know what ocd shit was right i didn't realize that every day every backstage every people strangers all this information coming in with my brother was like it was yeah he just couldn't deal he's so sensitive about it right his social anxiety isn't just be my friend's Like, when is your brother a dick? I'm like, maybe. I didn't know.

I didn't know that it was something out of his control. How long did it take you to understand that part of your brother? To last Thursday? Wow. No. Yeah. Yeah. It took us till our 30s.

Yeah, totally. Well, I mean, really until we put the band back together in 2019 is really when I could. How long was that break? It was like almost a decade. Wow. Yeah. And were you guys closest in talking through that time? Never spoke.

Oh, wow. Never spoke. And then what, when you got back together, was it like more of like a therapeutic exercise or was it like a... We are so weird. We didn't really... I wouldn't want you guys to be any other way. No, there is no other way. Yeah, of course.

I mean, I've said it before, but my wife, Camille, she's a died in the wool, punk rock, Oakland chick, like, you know, artist, former graffiti writer. And we fell in love. And it's been full, the only relationship that's ever benefited anything in my life. Right. Positivity, the work, you know, that we're. And she was the one who was like, listen, let's just start looking at this. And luckily for me, like when it, because we're too stupid sometimes, you know,

it's funny because people go, there's a money when we got back, it's a money grab. I'm like, are you, people have offered us money every year. It's a music business. Yeah. It's called the business. I play music, but that's the business. Yeah. People offer us money every year we weren't together to come back.

And we didn't want to deal with it. Yeah. But when we decided to, I always remember because our attorney, it was started to come around that we're going to do it. And I still haven't spoken to him. And he hasn't spoken to me. And I started to go off on one of my. And he goes, can I speak to Camille?

Camille was like, all right, well, let's see. deal with let's look at this and then it's like anything else though i had it i've moved away from the things that upset me i i i'm not a i'm not a person to i'm a sagittarian i live in my own world but i'm not going to hold a grudge you know what i mean especially with someone but i could i could put it into a better perspective like you know what my ego and my fucking trips i'm on man the best shit i ever did and the shit that means the most to people is the songs that i write with my brother. Yeah, and it's a hard thing to balance ego when we've had the things, the success,

the, when we became what we thought we could be. Then we're playing a game with like, and then there's expression, which you guys were just kids expressing yourself. I mean, Rich was what, 19 when we made, 18 when we made our first record? And you dream together. And you were expressing that to the world. And you were right. You were like, I think we could do that.

and then you could. And then it was really good. And it was extremely, what I always give you guys credit for is the songs and the sounds and everything is, it's so hard to get that right. If you get it wrong,

you get it really wrong. I mean, George Chuclias, who signed us and produced our first two records. I mean, to this day, he says, you don't have to worry about anything.

Your voice and Rich's right hand. And you can hear, though, the way your vocals and that guitar sing together is part of what I think is the magic of even just listening to your live shows or, you know, when I hear you guys and I think like, wow, what a unique band that's continued to be unique and stood the test of time. That's what do you need to stand the test of time? You need great songs. They connect with people. And then you need to capture people's imagination. There's something about brothers. Everyone loves a family.

story because we relate to it. There's people out there that wish they had a brother. There's people out there that their brother's their best friend. There's people out there that don't speak to their brother. And they look at brothers and they go, well, that's so interesting. What did they say about Mick and Keith and Joe and Steven? They're like brothers. Yeah, they're like brothers, but they're not. But they're not. My brother and me had a different story. We moved out at a young age and we navigated the world together. We survived together. And when we got success together for a minute, it was full of conflict. It felt...

Now it changed. Something in the dynamic had changed. Yeah, maybe for a second. Maybe we were both scared of that. But we got on the other side of it and we were very... One thing I was very lucky with with my brother because from a young age, we just raised each other. Right.

Because both my parents, they couldn't really do it. So we were able to be vulnerable with each other all the time. So if I was scared, I could say, hey, I'm scared. I'm afraid, like, we're not going to have any more success or I'm afraid everyone hates me or whatever it is. I was able to share that with someone and not like have to be tough and be like, fucking, I don't care. Or not feel that that could be turned around and used against you. Yeah. And, you know, because music business is full of disgusting people. But it'll take your, take your secrets. But even people you thought, not maybe your real family, but I saw it happen to me, man.

You know, like this guy's your best friend. And now he thinks because of my, you know, you don't have a fucking idea. You don't write the songs and you weren't the guy with the imagination, but you think you know better now and you're not going to support me because I feel this is how I feel. Because this is what I feel we should be doing. And with your brother. Which work for everyone when we're selling lots of records, but we're still making records and making music that I'm proud of. And that's the most important part. I think this doesn't benefit the craft. We started talking about the craft. But I love that you don't have to be fully immersed in that world to do it like you used to. And there's more, there is more public accountability if someone shared something that

happened to them. I mean, the other, the reality is, is the fame was weird. All of a sudden being a guy touring is hard. I've seen a lot of people not be able to stomach this life. Right. The pressure, just the waking, I don't know, you know, people think that they've done some touring too, but when you spin your, it's weird. I'm, I hate it sometimes that I'm more comfortable in the hotel than I am in my own home. It's, you know, I look at Bob Dylan, like, he, you know, he's never stopped touring. And, you know, COVID was interesting to me because it, when it's happened, I was terrified for everyone. I was terrified for me. And, like, Like, what if I lost my wife?

What am I? We didn't know. But then I was like, oh, my God, this, you know, if I'm not touring, we're not making any money. And I wasn't in the Black Crows. I was in my little hippie psychedelic group. But I was like, after a little while, though, I was like, look, life is still going on. I'm not on the tour bus. I'm not at the backstage.

I'm not. And it was nice. Yeah, you got a different version of life that maybe you hadn't been able to stop and get before, which I think is really nice. And it was really enlightening in terms of that. And but the other thing I was going to say is, you know, the other way to take advantage of people like us in our altruism is all I ever really wanted to focus on was the work, the songs, the shows. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not the type of person to think of, what are you going to do on stage? I never thought what I'm going to do. I just go up there and, how? I just go up there and,

however I'm feeling. It's expression. And it has to be a, and this is the one thing Rich and I are like, if it doesn't feel good, we know it instantly. We've had a great career. We've made a lot of money.

We've done a lot. But we've also turned down a lot of money and done a lot of shit because we know that's not us and that doesn't feel good. And nothing about this should ever not feel good. Yep. And that changes some. You know, as you get older and you can see different things.

It evolves. And you can. have a different relationship with it. There's a time for things that things evolve and I think, but I always have gotten that impression that there's an artistic musical expressionism

that's happening, that I would say I've never gotten the impression that your band was doing anything other than what you want to do. For better, for worse. For better or worse, which I think is part of the legacy, which I think you feel that more than you think it you read it, you feel it. I would hope for younger people who, if they even, you know,

that's another thing. Young people don't have the here, you know, we had heroes, man. You know what I mean? I look to people to see how they navigated these waters and are there any road signs left? Like what? You know what I mean? Like my hero worship didn't limit me. My hero worship was something that I could put into a certain,

construct of, you know what I mean? I never wanted to, I was always happy to be myself, but it could always be like, you know, drugs are funny. Like, I only did drugs that Keith Richards and William Burroughs did. You know what I mean? I think that's a pretty good. That's a safe. Yeah, that's a good guideline.

With the new record, you guys made it in a very short amount of time. Yeah, yeah. And was it you and your brother really like artistic? Yeah, this record was, to me, and it will, again, you know, it will go down with whatever. It was so fun and it was so funky and loose. I mean, the record's heavy and darker than maybe some of the records we've made, but it was just me and Rich.

And it started when we're, Rich actually just moved back to the East Coast, but New York. Upstate. Okay, that's cool. Yeah. And so when I had told him, because I'm riding all the time, I'm constantly writing. and I'm constantly doing this.

He's got pieces. So he sent me some pieces and I said, well, let's go to the studio. I said, but I don't want to go to Nashville. I don't want to go with anything completed. I'm not going to write any lyrics. So we talked about it. So I just want you to know, don't freak out.

I'm not, because our happiness bastards, everything was pretty much complete, except for a few chorus, you know, things. But for the most part, it was 80% done. So what we would do is like, you know, it's just me and Rich, Chad Galactic and the Raven, two of our guys. And I said, set up a drum kit, a bass amp and a guitar amp.

So just like it has always been, Rich and I go in there and Rich will play around. And I play the drums a little bit. I'll sit down and start to find the vibes. And we kind of took that to Nashville and told Jay, we're coming in. We don't let you know, we don't have anything finished. And he was like, great.

So we started and after a couple days, we had plans for the band to come. Our drummer, Cully lives in Nashville, so he was there because I'm not playing like that. After a couple days, we were like, we love everyone in the band, but let's do it. So Rich plays all the guitars and bass. Our keyboard player came in at the end and Leslie and McKenzie, our singers, came in for one day. We had so much fun, and it was like truly, that's all we did. I laugh. I said, it took eight days.

We could have done it in five if we had had any songs. Right. Yeah. But we work really quickly, and I've said it, but, you know, my dear friend, Todd Schneider, who's a singer-songwriter, passed away at the end of last year in a very tragic, tragic fashion. And this record will always have a certain poignancy for me because he, was a real singer-songwriter,

a real folk hero, a real weirdo, man, in the best way. Yeah. And Todd and I had a relationship revolving around poetry that I don't have with a lot of people.

But he was like, can I come down in the studio a couple days? And I was like, yeah, man. And he was just like, how do you guys communicate without saying anything?

It's like weird. It's like, is this ESP? Is this magic? What is it? And I'm like, because we were, my brother's more put together.

So Rich, you know, when we come up, but I'm like not put together. So I'm like, dude, that. And I'm for the whole life, he's like, this is the chorus. I'm like, that's the verse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that intro, that's the core. You know what I mean?

So I'm arranging stuff. And Rich is trying to keep up with me. Also, he's got his thing. But we work really quickly. And I'm sure it's the same with your brother. After a long time, we don't have to talk. I can just be like, uh, and he knows.

knows or he can do something. Exactly. And we don't have, and it just starts to like go and go and build and build. And yeah, so eight days later, we were kind of finished. And I was teasing with Jay, Joyce, our producer. He was like, well, that's it. And I was like, you want us to come on Monday? We'll make another one. Yeah. Yeah. It was like that kind of vibes. Yeah. And I have to say that I've, I've sat in studios now since the 80s with my brother and I've done thousands of concerts with him. It's his hands down to me the most spectacular music that he's played the guitar stuff he was doing

the solo I was just like wow man Rit this is to me this record is really Rich's masterpiece I'm gonna' and like my music my hair can be able to be able to continue my rhythm

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it gets, there's things you understand subtle things over time where you know not to do something or to do something is a weird thing because there's less is more sometimes and sometimes more is more. It's all about space. And there is like only someone with the hours

and the experience of on stage of making records. But it's also to keep it alive like we were saying earlier. I was like, oh, this shit is so alive. It was making me happy. That we're a band, you know, you see bands sometimes after a long time and they're like trying so hard to be, again, it's impossible for us to be something that we're not. We would get the stink on us in five seconds.

You know what I mean? I think there's lots of things we can do, but there's, we know what are we supposed to do? What's the relevancy we're trying to create other than a soulful connection as the writers and the musicians? And hopefully how that transpires to the people listening. And if someone new wants to come along, cool. But, you know, when you've done it for a long time, you have your core audience. and, you know, and for us to really, again, I truly believe in the power of rock and roll.

Yeah. I don't mean it's going to change the world. It's not going to keep, you know, these people from committing crimes against our own citizens. It's not going to keep so, you know, I know this because I talk to people all the time. People play our songs at funerals and at weddings. That's right. And that may, and I know that because when I feel a certain way, there's just some things, I have to hear.

There's just some, whether I'm in the best mood on a Saturday night and we have people at the house and it's time to put on. Nothing else does the trick. Nothing. In any given moment, nothing else does the trick but that song, whatever that song is. I need it. Yeah.

And it could be any weird thing. It doesn't necessarily, it's not nostalgic as well. Yeah. I'm not a person that's motivated by nostalgia. I'm not either. We are similar in that way. I do think that what makes me happy is thinking about you and your brother making that record. And I know how quickly you have to work to get something done in eight days.

It does have to be a natural. It just comes out. We work like that too. We don't have to talk. And it can almost look like we're arguing, but we're not. We're trying to like, because I'm like, no, no, the thing, but the do, do, da, and then he's like, and then we get there. And it's our process. And no one else can get involved in that process or it slows us down.

and we hate it. Yeah, yeah. We need to go. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's, I think great songwriting teams are that way. And I don't know if you and your brother are what the differences are, you know, because like I said,

my brother is way more subdued and mellow than I am. I think Benj is a structure guy. He likes to build. There might be a little OCD in there as well, which I think is like it makes them feel safe to do the thing. And it's got to, and then I'm weaving in and out and it's a little wild. and it gets there though

because only I could do that with him if anyone else did it he would be like nope I don't think we could do it I have to give Jay Joyce another credit I don't think Rich and I could do it just by ourselves because it was nice to have I mean we've made a record with Jay and he makes so many different kinds of records

and he's a great guitar player and he's just very musical but he's kind of cool like he does it in a cool way to know like if I'm burning he knows to let it burn. And if he sees that Rich has got something stewing in another way, like, okay, you know,

he's really adept at navigating our weird trip. You know what I mean? He understands it. Yeah, which is really unique and special. I mean, I always give George Ducullia so much credit. But George also had a sway on us that we don't have now because George found us when we didn't, And he was our, you know, he was in, he made the cult electric. He worked with who at this and he made records and he knew he was Rick Rubin's right hand guy

and he was in L.A. and New York. So he was our lifeline to everything. Right. You know? And he, but we don't need that anymore. Right. So we need another sort of dynamic. And Jay was perfect foil to Rich and I's weird thing.

That's pretty cool, man. I'm really happy to imagine you guys working together almost like at the beginning and then now finding the joy of making these songs and like there's something that only writing a song can satisfy. And you know it's the only time Rich and I, even in our warring years, when we would sit in a room and get out acoustic guitar or whatever, that's when we always were close. now taking that to the studio that then it would be a thing

touring that could cause issues you know right but it is funny too like why were we on the same bus for all those years just because of people greedy right people getting paid off of your gross yeah people getting paid they'd rather get paid than have the band

being a good place be happy and healthy we would have been a lot better if all the druggy and crows and all the sober crows had been separated because it's in your face. Every time the back lounge door opens and it's like, you know, like, whoa, it's like all of parliament funcadelic are back there, you know, it's just like. When we're young, we think we answer to people and we don't actually. Well, you're just so you're in, you're just in it. Yeah. You know, and I think there is a survival part. And let's face it, man, after the first record, I mean, I think, I think, before we left on tour we were like all right well we'll be back in Atlanta next year and

yeah you don't think it's gonna work out whatever yeah like in another band what well who knew yeah so then by the time it's really happening you're just trying to stay on the roller coaster as well you know it was so funny because in late 89 early 90 we're here in l.a for a long time doing stuff as a record to come out and i get a call izzie stradlin wants you and rich to come to his house and we were like what Yeah, cool, you know. I live in West Hollywood, so I will always remember going to that house, you know, and I see it every day. And we go over to Izzy's, and I always thought it was cool that he was listening to Aftermath

by the, everything in the records with me. And I was like, oh, cool, he's listening to Aftermath. And he came in, and we were talking, and he was like, I don't think you guys are prepared. And we were like, for what, an earthquake? You know, he was like, no success. And we're like, us? Like, we're not going to have to deal with like this. What are you talking about?

Like guns and roses shit, which is still on its own thing. He goes, man, I'm going to tell you, man, when that rocket ship takes off, just hold on. And we were like, okay. And he was right. You know what I mean? He was right. And which is so funny. Rich and I talk about it all the time.

Yeah. I like a picture of the brothers. It feels like where you're at now with this record and maybe this tour coming up. I feel like you're doing like incredible shows. Hollywood Bowl, I saw. Yeah, yeah, super excited. Incredible. You know, you can get jaded and you can go like, oh, cool, whatever.

Yeah. But like there are moments where I do think if you get the chance to have a second and like pat each other on the back and go like, hey, man, we're still here. And we did it. We're doing all right. We did all right. It's funny because we do. You know what I mean?

We are at it. And I don't mean this in a lazy. way. I don't mean this in an uninspired way. But we have a certain ease with our love for each other that we never had. That's nice. And it's really nice. Because you guys, you did all right. Yeah. You know what I mean? Well, it's funny too. I'm like, what's next? You know what I mean? Like, I never take it for granted. And I've never lost, I have, I'm opinionated. I'm, I'm, I'm a lot of things, but I have an innate understanding and I have a humble heart, I have a humble soul in regards to the tradition that we get to work in. I've met, and I've got to share the stage,

and I've met the most amazing, beautiful, tortured, funny people that, you know, you're supposed to meet, you meet people because you're supposed to meet them. Yeah. And that has nothing to do with chat rooms or fucking Instagram likes or, you know, shit like that. You know what I mean? Like you never know. You know what I mean?

And sometimes I look at life and I'm like, well, what would it be like to, you know, it was funny, my 16 year old was telling me like she loves, she's a deep diver. And she's like, dad, you know, I was just in New York. She lives in New York with her mother. I was just with her in New York. She goes, that's where Richard Hell lives. I was like, cool, you know, I love Richard Hell. She's like, he's been there since 1974 in the same apartment or whatever.

And I was like, what? You could live in one place that long. Yeah. And I envy that. But I also would never be able to understand it. And as I get into my 60s, I'm like, I want to find some place where it's like home now. Where do you think that is? I mean, maybe NorCal, but I think Camille and I would do ourselves a disservice if we didn't attempt to live in England for a while.

Oh, yeah, England's kind of cool. I'm not just saying that because I'm all about the blues, man. Yeah. Chelsea football. Yeah. We beat Napoli in the Champions League yesterday. Oh, you love Chelsea? Oh, wow.

Yeah, I'm huge. One of my best friends is a Chelsea guy. Blue is the color. Do you go to the games? Yeah, yeah. I was there a couple weeks ago. I went to a Chelsea game like two years ago. It was cool.

At the bridge. Yeah. Nice one, man. Yeah. You're really living the nice life. Yeah, my friend is a big Chelsea fan. And he's like, we were in England at the same time. And he's like, you have to come with me, please.

So I went. I'm not a soccer fan, but I like the whole. It's a cool vibe when you get to the bridge. Yeah. It's pretty cool. I'm up at 430. When they have the early game, I'm obsessed, Chelsea. My brother-in-law is a huge Arsenal fan.

Of course. And he's up 40, he's up at 4.30 and the morning, too, watching these games. I'm like, holy shit, dude. I love it. But it's also, people think I'm crazy, but especially now, you know, when you wake up in L.A. and it's 70 degrees and beautiful. I can wake up at 4.30 in the morning. It's still dark out.

I have a cup of tea and beans and eggs. My HP sauce put the match on. It's raining and cold and everyone's fine. freezing and I'm like, yeah. This is living. Also, do you feel like, because you guys are big all over the world, are there any cultures that's kind of like sucked you in because you felt understood? I remember when a certain couple places when we went on tour the first time maybe, I don't

know what it is that made that made me like feel so much love for that place. And it could have been it was my first time there and it was a romantic feeling or it felt like they understood us or. something. I don't know, but like there's certain places in the world I could live because of the experience I had when I first went there. Of course. And it'll forever be like, was England like a place like that for you guys? I mean, we've always been Anglophile. Right. You know what I mean? And Atlanta was a very English place for a long time. So I feel very comfortable. I, and I grew up loving English everything, but especially English comedy. So the sense of humor and the way everyone's

so nasty and horrible sometimes. It's really funny. It suits me. I mean, the one place that speaks to me on the deepest, deepest level is Jamaica. Oh, wow. I have my people there. Steve Positive, Rusta Bentley. If you're listening, the hurricane has been devastating.

But Jamaicans are resilient. Jamaicans are unlike any people I've ever met. And I've gone there for, I've been going for over 30 years. and I haven't been murdered, which is nice. You go every year? We try. It's been, I didn't make it last year. I've never been.

I mean, there's like anything else. If you go to a resort anywhere in the world, you're just at a resort. Right. My Jamaica is a more, I like to be in the country. I like to be, you know, with my Jamaican friends. You have like a little community there. Yeah, yeah, we have like. That's the way you really experience somewhere.

Yes, yes. And I like the deep, deep part of the culture. And I love, Jamaicans are funny. Yeah. So they're funny too. And the food is fantastic. And I don't know, there's just something about it that is so soul. I know this is my soulful, soulful connection.

A lot of that might have to do with growing up in Atlanta. You know, I'm a white man in black mecca, you know. Yeah. I think you're a soulful guy. I think that your like soulful things speak to you. I think you probably are more in touch with your soul, that soulfulness than the average person, which is our, I think when you're artists and you're making things and you're interested in other artists and you're thinking on like a different plane a little bit,

when you get into that long enough where that is the language you speak and it's not unnormal. Yeah. Because we're very lucky as artists that that's not abnormal for us, where some people to do anything artistic is like a going out on a limb. Yeah, yeah. Whereas we're like, I don't know, go make it. We'll see if it's good or not. Who cares?

It's really the only time that life isn't just chaos. Right. It's when you have the, when you're making something. And you express yourself without knowing you're doing it because it's, you've been doing it for so long. So the way you dress is the way you dress. but you walk in a room with people who can't express themselves. They're like, whoa.

And you forget, like, I just put my fucking clothes on and I make some decisions. Yeah, that's how I want. I mean, I've always been a dandy. I've always had that. Even before I really knew the intricacies of dandyism and the political sort of social implications of what that means. You know, it is funny. If I spoke French, we never would have met today because I would have moved to France

a hundred years. years ago. As English as I am, I drive people crazy with my French shit. I mean, the You love France. I like France too. Yeah. Spectacular. I like France too. I really enjoy France. I love it. French people get a bad rap. Yeah. Nah, they're just cool. They're the best. And they have a way of life that is, and like everything else, France is a big place. So you have regional things. But the French really know how to spend the day. It's pretty cool. Me and Nicole have always had a good time in France.

It's like a special place for us. And I really enjoy the people there. So I like... And I love French cuisine is... I love... I mean, I spend time in Sicily, Italy. I mean, food is a huge, huge obsession in part of my life. Authentic cuisine-driven experience is...

Again, it's an obsession. And when I'm in France, I'm in France, I'm just like, it drives everyone crazy. You know, we don't have a date in France this year, but if we did, I would already have every meal planned out. And you're like, we're staying four days after. Yeah, yeah. I am 60 at the end of the year.

And my best friend is a restaurateur and a chef in New York. And he's deeply in with everyone. You're going to do a big blowout? We said maybe let's go and let's like see if we can get good. gout in five days. How do you get gout? My duck level fats are dangerously low. Oh, yeah.

Well, gout would they used to call the King's Disease because of all the rich foods. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. That's funny. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. The gouty gout tour. That's right.

2026. Gout or bust. I mean, literally. Yeah. Let's think you guys are a badass band and I think that every time you show up, it matters. and that's just an interesting place to be. Yeah, thanks for saying that because I will remember that when I'm like maybe having a moment of like,

what the fuck? It's the truth. I mean, I mean, you're at a place where you get to decide. You really do. And when you show up, it matters.

And I think that a lot of bands dream of being that band. They dream of getting there. And they've had, you know, it's interesting. Like someone could be on their first, their second, their third,

their fourth hit. It still isn't done. Still isn't decided. Right? that doesn't matter anymore. What matters is actually the things we don't have to say about your band actually matter the most. And that's something that you become, you live it, you decide it for yourself.

And bands forget how to decide for the self. You were talking, people get in there and they start scaring them into this direction or that direction because of this and that. And you're like, the ones who decide for themselves, even if they lost themselves for a minute, because we all have, the ones who decide for themselves what they're going to do. And I've always said, you know, with record companies and people, I'm like, that's great, but you have 50 bands and I have mine. This is the only one I get.

And I'd rather take the, I'd rather be, I'll take the hit. You know what I mean? I'll take responsibility as opposed to something, if I listen to you and it fails. Yeah. If it happens, you're going to take credit for what I did anyway. But if I listen to you and it falls on its face, it's on me, not you, and you can fuck off to the next project you have. That's right.

You know what I mean? And this is our live. I get one career. You get to attach to like 100 careers. Totally. Yeah, it's funny. Yeah, man, it's a real pleasure to speak to you. Thank you for having me, man. It's been fantastic. Chris, thanks, bro. Great to meet you. You too. Thank you for watching Artist Friendly. If you like this episode,

please make sure you hit the like button. You follow the channel and please share it with your friends. We appreciate the support. That is why this show exists because you listen to it. Thank you guys. We'll see you next time. Bad