Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Claudio Sanchez of Coheed and Cambria

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Claudio Sanchez of Coheed and Cambria. As the frontman for Coheed and Cambria, Sanchez has mapped out entire worlds through intricate concept albums. That craftsmanship has spilled into his own comic series, The Amory Wars, which has acted as a companion to most of the band’s catalog. Beginning this week, Coheed will embark on a series of rare full album playthroughs of their 2005 LP, Good Apollo, I’m Burning Star IV, Volume One: From Fear Through the Eyes of Madness, which includes Furnace Fest, When We Were Young, and two shows in Australia. Grab tickets here. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'm talking with writer, musician, lead singer, guitarist, and frontman for the band Coheed in Cambria, Claudio Sanchez. Let's go. Welcome. That's great. Where are you guys playing? We're playing Riverside Auditorium tonight. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. It's a big venue. Yeah. You know, this year, we did, it's like the longest run we've done in such a long time. but it was primarily support.

We were out with Primus and Incubis. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, so we did Primus in the top of the spring, and then that finished, and we jumped on, and we did, like, support with Incubis and, you know, little one-offs here and there. That's great. Yeah, it's cool. It was cool.

We haven't done that in a long time. You know, we don't really get that opportunity that often to support. So when they come, I mean, I love it, right? So we try to jump on them as... Yeah, it's great. It's fun sometimes. when you find the right match.

Like a band you like, so you're excited to be there. Right. But also their crowd is cool. And they're cool. Yeah. Like Incubis is one of my, I had Brandon and Mikey on this show.

Oh, cool. They're just cool dudes, but the band, it's timeless. It's interesting because I feel like Coheed is like, you guys are one of the few bands, I think, that could go and play with Incubis.

Just like Incubis. I don't know where you guys exist on the timeline. Right. There's some classic elements to Coheed and Cambria. There's like something very classic about it. Right. But there's also something about it that is because it feels like it's like this, it's always been this kind of progressive.

There's no kind of like walls to what you guys could do. It could exist now. If it was a band that came out right now, we'd never heard you before. We'd still resonate. You know? Right. What's interesting. Yeah.

It's not time stamped. I'm interested. That's beautiful. I love that. It's dope. Yeah. It's a great accomplishment. I mean, yeah.

I mean, you know, I just think about, I think a lot of it just has to do with, like, just being as open-minded as, you know, coming up and just loving music and drawing from so many influences. I mean, I remember as a kid, I just, you know, the band that this was before Koheed, like, we did all sorts of shit. Yeah. Like, it was, you know, it was funky. It was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was,

odd. You know, we were an outlier even then. And, um, and I never, as much as I loved all the music that I'd listened to and, uh, found inspiration in artists and whatever have you, I never just wanted to be one thing. I just, I liked so much stuff. And, you know, and I wanted that to be part of the outlet, you know, just try all sorts of things. And, uh, and co-edas, you know, it's, it's, it's allowed me to, to do that. And it's awesome. I love it. I love that. It's, that you say that, you know. And, yeah, we can go out with, like, bands like Incubis or even Primus, for example. You know, when that got brought up, I was like, I was like, oh, I mean, that makes sense to me. There's some things that I do in my guitar playing that, you know, slightly mimic what Les does.

And, you know, so, so yeah, I'm, I'm into that. I love that. It's cool. It's so cool, man. Maybe you have this experience, but every now and then, do you ever see another band and you go, like, you're so lucky. Like, lucky, like, in terms of, like, what, like, what you get to do is so cool. Like you became, Cohed became Cohed, right? You were just making art and putting it out. But it became what it became.

And some of that was absolutely it's the core product of you guys creating music and then over time. Touring, making more records. So you build this thing over time. And it's an organic process to that. But there's effort involved. There's hard work involved.

But what it becomes to fans is out of your control. Right? Yeah. And some of it's in your control because you could say things or you could do some people could like blow their own shit up

if they really wanted to. Like you could tear it down if you wanted. But like the vibe is generated from you but then what it becomes sometimes is beyond you because people share and people have opinions of you. And I think what you guys have done

is just so, it's just so unique and cool and timeless. And I think of that when I think of Kobe and Cambria, I think timeless. It's interesting. It captures your imagination. It feels free.

Feels like you're not beholden to some rules about what you are. Look, I came to terms with like, I only get to be me. That's it. Right. I get to be anyone else. But I can appreciate when I see someone doing something that looks fun and they get to have an existence that I think is cool, I just go, man, that's fucking cool. You're so lucky.

Oh, yeah. You know? I sometimes do feel like we are. are lucky. I mean, I look at myself. I mean, I think of, you know, when we were kids and we were coming up, you know, and we played in these scenes like in Woodstock, New York or in Nyack, New York, and the little local zines that would get put together. They would say things, you know, you know, we were, again, like I said, we were like the outlier and they would say things like, you know, the band at the time was called, like, Shibouti. That was like the first incarnation of, of

Kohid. And they would say things like, you know, it was an odd thing to, I mean, you look at me. You don't necessarily think, like, high, singing. you know, right? And like they would say things like, oh, the singer sounds like a Vienna choir boy that got hit in the sack with an aluminum baseball bat, you know, and shit like that. Yeah, you're like, oh, you're like, wow, people really don't like us, you know. But, you know, with all that, like negativity, there seemed to be like this growth of people that were into what we did, you know, and when I look back at it, and I see all that we've accomplished and all that we've grown with how odd we can be. Because, you know, there's a lot of

misconception. You know, you see Coeating Camber, you think the comic book band, you know, but, but, you know, it's more than that. It's a very, as, you know, it's, as much as it, it feels like it's, like, riddled in this, like, science fiction mythology that I've created. It's very, the only reason that's there is because I had, that's the only way I could be honest in the song. Yeah. You know, I don't think comic book at all. Oh, that's awesome. Except I think it's a cool aspect of the art. I think it's this cool aspect of, that's honest. You just said it. It's, it's It's not contrived. You're not overdoing.

It just feels like someone in their bedroom or their garage toiling over something as long as it takes. And then when they're done, they go, hey, check this out. Look what I did. And you see it. And you're like, what the fuck, dude? That's cool shit. Right? Like, so to me, it's like the kid aspect of all of us.

Like, somewhere in life we were feeling maybe alone. I don't know. Like, I did, I had the same experience in, like, high school. I didn't have a ton of friends, and I felt alone, and I had to work a job I hated to support my mom and go and just figure out all these adult problems. And I was around all these kids that looked like they were having a great time. They were like dating and they were doing all this stuff. And I just felt like not a part of this experience.

Yeah. And then me and my brother, like, started this band and it gave us something so rich to like think about, to dream about, to aim towards. and like we didn't know how to play guitar. We didn't know how to do anything. Yeah. And we had, and we were like these like weird. I don't want to talk it down because I do think there was a lot of really great experience

I had growing up the way that I did as hard as it could have been at some points. Really religious house, really sheltered from not allowed to like digest anything culture wise. So we were sheltered in the way where we didn't know what the cool things were. So then we started sneaking music magazines and like sneaking cassette tape. and like listening to music and like it was like a secret. And it gave us a world that we felt cool. We felt seen.

We felt like we could be somebody. Like there was a potential there. And it saved my teenage life. Like it saved from 15 to 18, I would say like I could have gone down a lot of other bad roads. Right. And found outlets that were not good. Yeah. But I was in this little good Charlotte world where I was like creating this like thing that felt,

important to me. At that age, of course, you're probably the same experience. The local, you start playing shows and you're like, how do we do that? You start trying to get opportunities and you're not exactly welcome and like you don't really fit in and people make fun of you. And you actually respect them because that's the scene you want to be a part of because in your world, that's the only opportunity you have to play those shows. Right. So I think it's a similar experience for everyone at the beginning of any artistic or imagination endeavor. is misunderstood, not respected, not taken seriously, feeling like an outsider because you are.

Right. And having to be resilient and keep doing it because it calls you to do it, I guess, and you can't live without doing it. Yeah, I mean, that's so true. I mean, for me, it's like, it's funny. Like, when I started playing in bands, I was just a guitar player.

It was never like the frontman. I never wanted to be a frontman necessarily. I didn't think. I liked being in a band. because it was a way to communicate with friends and create, like, problem solved, basically. That's, as I look at it now as an adult. I mean, you know, it's like the equivalent to, equivalent of playing like a sport, but yet you had a coach that would, like, kind of mentor you into doing that, but we didn't.

You know, you're just a bunch of guys, like, or girls or whoever would, like, just trying to figure out, like, how to make a thing. How to have harmony. Yeah, right. Yeah. And, uh, and so, um, for me, like, as a guitar player, I, you know, And when you say being alone, like, you know, I remember when my dad got me a four track. That was like, that was more important to me than almost like a guitar because that's when I started to realize that I did have a voice. And not that I wanted to be the singer in a band,

but I kind of accidentally became one. And when that happened, it was really hard for me to communicate as the figurehead, you know, like, that's why the comics kind of became a thing. because I, you know, my fear was like, again, like when I talk about writing music or being honest, that was my way of communicating. Because, you know, I don't really talk a whole lot. I don't, you know, my wife and I, that's like my strongest relationship. I'm pretty much an introvert. So it's like when I really want to get my like life out there, it's in song. But when it became time to be the guy that everyone's looking at, what was really hard for me to like confess, you know, and that's where the concept came from.

It just allowed me to be honest. I could sing my life. I could put my life in the songs, but in a way that I wouldn't be judged. And my fear of judgment is because, you know, you're saying when you were brought up, I was brought up, but, you know, my parents were super supportive, but, you know, we had this, like, dark secret. My dad was a recovering heroin addict, you know, and that's actually, and it was a really, and the whole family knew that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was a really, like, at a young age, I'm guessing, like, you see, you see, you. someone going through something hard like that and you only can hope that they'll be stay healthy and they'll beat it right but as a kid especially if it's presented as a dark secret it could be a really shameful feeling absolutely and we didn't we didn't even know like that's that's like the thing is you know my dad was a pretty functional you know i say that like i look at it like in in from who i am now then and it's like okay it's kind of hard to be a functioning drug addict you know but like but he did he held it together. I mean, the first record, it's called second stage turbine blade. It's named after the part

that he worked on in the factory. He was a heat treat specialist in Cromoloid, New York, and that is the job, that is the part that he worked on. And it was easy for me to go, you know what, that sounds very science fiction. I'm going to tell my story in the songs the way I need to, to feel that expression, to feel fulfilled. But I'm going to create this facade of, and the Amory, which is the title of it is the street I grew up on. I grew up on Amory Drive in upstate New York. It was a commuter town outside of Manhattan. And everything, everything has like its relevance to my life, but it was like easy for me because I didn't want to be like the, you know, I didn't want people to immediately, because that's, I just immediately felt like, you know, I didn't want people to think

that my upbringing was shitty. It wasn't. I agree. I, I struggled with sharing aspects of my life, even though we did a lot in our songs and we were very much more literal because I was angry. I was conflicted the whole time because I didn't want anyone to feel bad for me because I thought I had a great life. Right. It's weird. I thought I had a great life, but I was angry. So it's weird.

I worked on this for many years. I went to therapy and worked on this. I needed to unpack it. I needed to understand what my experience was. And when I hear you say that, I get, I feel it. I get it because, like, you did it really well. and I almost see a kid who needs to make sense of a very painful idea that this person who you love, who you see as God almost, you know, like the dads are, that's our, that's our view of a God, right?

It's a metaphor for God. It is, so this is your hero. Right. If you want to admit it from a young age until it's broken, right? Like, my dad was my hero, even though he was struggling the whole time. He was an alcoholic. He had a lot of problems. He was still my hero, and there was aspects of him that were fucking really great.

And I see him and me when I interact with the world every day. I still see little things that I got from my dad. He's a tough guy. And he was a lifelong alcoholic. It killed him in the end. But it's addiction. And we had a lot of addiction in our family. So it was such a dirty idea, drugs, alcohol, shame.

There's a lot of shame around it. And as a father, I actually don't, I'm not ashamed of addicts. I feel deeply empathetic for what they're going through. But as a kid, I thought, I mean, I was ashamed to myself when I drank. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. I was like, there was so much shame around alcohol, drugs, all of it. And there was the religious undertones of it as well.

The story I told of my life for a long time was a little bit of a fantasy so that I could live with it. So I told a much more romantic version of the sad story to kind of like paint a picture that I could show people and not be ashamed of myself or my family. And then it was when I came to terms with the sad truth, I could actually own it and integrate it into me and accept it. And yes, it did make me who I am. But I also believe I am who I am despite it.

There could have been a lot of other versions of me that didn't panic. out. Now, it doesn't mean I hate my, I don't hate my dad. And, you know, and I, and I don't hate my mom. I see them as people who did the best they could with what they had. What I hear with your story is a kid who had to make sense of the world. And your imagination is a, it sounds incredible because your comics are awesome. Your music is awesome. You've created a world that people enjoy. There's no overtly people like it. It's not a question of if do people like your music or your comics, you have seen it. Your life is flourishing because people like it. Right, right. Right. But it comes from, kind of comes from pain. No, absolutely. That's amazing. Yeah. And you're like you're saying this fantasy,

like, you know, Coheed and Cambria are loosely based after my parents. Wow. The likenesses of them. And, you know, at the end of the second stage story, you know, as much as my dad was my hero, my mom was this, the shield, I guess, you know, and the characters, the characters, they evolve at the end of the story. And the motive is that they're going to destroy the star. Basically create Earth and its solar system. That's how that story ends. But they become two versions of themselves.

One's the Monster, which is the Cohede character. It's like this sort of hulking beast that power is to drain the energy of this star. And then the other is the white ruinier, which is a shield. It's basically the Cambria character, the motherly character, she becomes the shield that is supposed to stop him from doing it. And it's, you know, it's just these, like, little things that, you know, that I don't know if, you know, that are very significant to me and just representative of the life that I had with these two people. And, you know, it's the thing that I don't necessarily share all that often, you know. It's amazing.

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well, think about it though. That makes me think, like first of all, I won't be shocked if a decade or two from now we're watching a movie, the fantasy aspect of this is great. But that's why you, that's why you've had success, because you create good art. People like it. And people relate to it. Whether they know the metaphor you've created to help yourself make sense of your life, you did it in a way that a lot of people are entertained by it and they like it.

Yeah. And they feel something. That's likely the depth of the story, the depth of what it means to you. It bleeds out. If we're just drawing something for no reason and we give it to someone, it's much different than if we're drawing something for a reason and we feel we bleed on the paper in, you know, some way energetically. And it feels like you've bled into this art for all these years.

And I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't a big old movie one day. You want to make it? No. I know some people that might. Oh, well, I'm just saying, it's not too far-fetched. Listen, it's not like it's some, it's not like it's some obscure thing that hasn't been successful. Right, right. It's been proven.

The idea is proven that this concept works. Right. So the idea that it could become another piece of art and go out and touch just as many people and more and beyond, that's not too far fat. No, and I agree with you. I mean, I think the thing that keeps it, you know, because we have, we've, you know, we've tried to, well, I mean, we're starting to try to pitch it for that. But it is an undertaking. It's an undertaking.

You know, you think? It is. Oh, yeah. Oh, it is. Yes. Yeah, it is. And when you take into account that, you know, the Amory Wars is, you know, as far as the co-heeding Cambria saga goes as a five part, that doesn't, that also doesn't include the afterman,

which is the origin of the key work and which, you know, or the Vaxus story that we're telling now, which we haven't even revealed how that's connected to the Amory Wars. I mean, it's pretty big. But again, all just, you know, for me, it's like a journal entry. They're all journal entries. It's like when I look at the new records, the Vaxus stories, you know, whereas in the Amory Wars, I play sort of this, you know, kid that is confused about himself in the world that he's in. The Vaxis ones, I get to play the father figure.

You know, and I get to, that gets to play out. So it's like, it's just, yeah, I mean, there is such a connection with all of this stuff. You know, like, one of the things that I find so beautiful about the last record. I'm sorry, I'm like, can I go play on a little bit of attention? Please, I love it. I'm riding along. So my, so during the pandemic, my grandfather passed away. Now, my grandfather, like, he was like a second dad to me.

We, like, shared a basement apartment together on Amory. He's the person that bought the house on Amory, you know. And so, so I loosely based this character, Cyrus Amory, after him. him, you know, who was the discoverer that found the value of the keywork. The keywork is essentially the gravity of the story. It's also the afterlife. It's where the souls reside and sort of power all the planets that are part of the solar system. So I had based this character after him. And then he passed away. The record that we put out at the time was called the Afterman. And that record never had a conclusion. And so when he passed away in the pandemic, I brought his character back

in the story of Vaxus 2, Window of the Waking Mind. And I don't know if you know, like with every, nowadays, instead of going to the comics, with the Vaxus story arc, we actually put out

a sort of prose novel with graphic elements. Instead of it being sort of 2D, it's more of a three-dimensional cinematic look to it. That's neat. And so this record, that record ended,

so I had the artist create my grandfather's likeness. I was like, you know what? We're going to bring Cyrus back. as an elderly man. So as my grandfather passed away in this life, he was sort of reborn in the one that I've created.

In the story. Yeah. And it's so, like, it gives me chills every time I look at it because, you know, there's this moment at the end of the story. And the Co-Eat fans know it. Like, you know, there's just like AI that's a part of his suit called Allmother that speaks to him. And at the end of the story, he comes out of this quintet.

It's all over the place. So I know this is like kind of nuts, but comes out of this entity. Not nuts at all. the Quintilian speaker. And he says, All mother, we're free.

And I think for the Coheed fans who were like super into the Afterman story arc, like to see him return, you know, is great for them. And very exciting because that's a, a loved record within the universe of Coheed.

But for me, it just meant so much more. It's like, you know, I didn't get to say goodbye to him because, you know, New York was on lockdown at that time. And it's like right at the top of the pandemic. And, you know,

You know, it was just, it was, you know, it just. It's hard to lose someone without having any what feels like resolute closure. I've had that. And it's hard. I mean, I had it with my dad. I didn't say by. So it's hard because you don't think about it. And then they're gone.

And then you wish. Oh, yeah. You could go back in time and just have one more. The truth is, is that we'll always want one more of everyone. everything. Right. I think it's just the nature of life. Of course, time. Time is we'll always want one more. And we don't know when we get one more of anything. And so I've had to learn that how to, how to be in that mindfulness of like enjoying everything. And I have, I think I have like gotten to a place where I, for the most part, I can enjoy things as they happen, not thinking forward

all the time, all the time, just thinking forward. Or thinking backwards. Like, you know, like, You're either living in the past and you're going, I wish I could change it, or you're living in the future wishing I wish I could have it. And you're not right here right now going like, this is nice. I like this. Or even if it's not nice, whenever I'm dealing with something that's not nice, I always remind myself not to judge it. What if it actually turns out that I look back on that and really have a nice idea of

like what I had to go through? You know what I mean? Like it was really hard, but it made me this or I learned this. So like that kind of presentness is like something. and I've had to work on, and I've been thinking about it a lot lately, but with the loss of someone that you're close to, like your grandfather, to not be able to have that. To bring him into the story is like such an amazing gift you have.

So many people can't do that. I can't. I'm not writing stories like that. Right. I could write a song. I could try my best. It's going to be very literal. You're going to know exactly what I'm talking about.

It's not going to be as imaginative and fun. and captivating, but it's the best I could do. But the fact that you could create a character and a story to memorialize someone that actually brings them to life forever because people, so is that what I'm saying? Like, I don't know why I thought this when you were talking, but I was like, oh, this is a movie. movie. If I said to you, go back.

Do I want to do it again? Go back and build Coheed and Cambria again. You'd be like, listen, man, I don't regret it. I love it, but I'm not going back there. That was really fucking hard. It's like how many times do people scale Mount Everest? There's certain people that maybe they've done it a dozen times. I don't know.

There's probably some record. But most people, they do it once. Yeah. And they go, that was good. That was good. I almost died. That was good. Right. That's kind of like what you've done with your career. You scale the mountain and you got to where a lot of other people didn't get. They wanted to. You could say maybe it's this, maybe it's that. Who knows? But you did it and you got there. And if you looked

back over the last 20 fucking some odd years, you would be like, it's amazing. But I'm not going back and doing it again. Yeah. Funny at the top of the year, I have this other project, the small like acoustic electronic project called the prize fighter inferno in the top of the year we did our first run it was like a two week run our son was off from school so my wife and i were like oh we'll do this together she sings back up with me and uh the manager blaze he's like you know in his mind i think he was thinking we were going to get in a van i was like you're trip hell no you're a trip i'll pay the money for the bus i'm gonna lose money on this one yeah this is a this is a passion project i'm losing like this is gonna cost this is a

investment in my own fucking experience. I'm not losing money. I'm losing money on this. And that's the, that's it right there is like, thank God, right? I'm, I'm not saying I don't feel blessed, but there are some things where you're like, yeah, nah, this is going to be, just so you all know, we're losing money on this. No one's making any money on this one, but you did it because you care. Yeah. That pays you out other ways. And that's what art is. Yes, we run businesses. Any band that says they're not running a business have not come to terms with what they do for a living. We run a business, but sometimes we make art and we lose lots of money on it because that's not what it's about. It's about that thing we needed to do because we had to do it. You had to do it.

You had to go out with your wife. You had to go play those shows for whatever it called you and you answered. That's why you're going to continue to be successful as a person. Because if we block out all the math and the noise and the people and the pressure and the this and we just answer the calling as it calls. We'll get to where we're supposed to be. And that to me is something like a fulfilled life where we create things and some of them make some of them we make money on, which is great. Every time that happens, you're like, great. And a lot of them we lose money on, which is also okay. Yeah. Because it's the suffering of the artists, right? It's doing it at your own peril. Yeah. And I mean, just expression in itself, it's like, it's just necessity. Like, I, like, it's not a bet. I mean, clearly now it is, I have a family and it's nice to pay the bills. Right. You know, but, uh, but for the most part, it's like, you know, I have to, I have to do this. Like it's, you know, as much as, you know, as much as, like one time we, we did a record that was outside of the story. We, I chose to do one because that my son was about to be born. You know, I wanted to sort of tribute that experience that. That, I,

idea of like, oh, my son is coming. So that one was called The Color Before the Sun. And we finished it and we had done that. We'd done the no concept record. But then I realized I loved taking my life and transforming it into these grandiose science fiction. So it was like, this can only be short-lived. I have to do this. Like, this is how I express myself as the person in this band. And for me, as the person in life, like, it just works for me. Yeah, I can feel it. I think it's your love language with your family. So, of course, you're going to make a record to honor your son.

You got to. Yeah. That's what you do. Right. And then, of course, you are going to continue to write stories because that's what you do. It makes me like you more. Oh. You know what I mean?

I always liked you. We didn't know each other well. Right. But I always had a good experience. I always had like a good idea. Like, in passing, I've always been like. What a nice guy. Great band, nice guys.

It's always nice when you have that experience as an artist making your way in this world. And you're like, just, it's like showing up the high school when you go to these festivals and stuff. You're like, oh, hi. But you guys were very like, you guys were always very, like, kind, nice. So I always had a really, as a fan, I was had a good impression. To hear you talk about yourself, your music is so reinforcing. to that because I love honesty. I've had to learn how to be honest my whole life. I've had to learn how to not try and make people like me. So this is my natural impulses to make someone like me.

I have a need for it. It's probably some survival ship. But I've come in contact with people who don't want to share why they do something or where it comes from or not in a judgmental way, but when I hear someone share about where something comes from and I could feel it, I just feel so alive in my own. Oh, that's sweet. Inspiration and like that, that, you know, wherever mine comes from, it's different from yours, but it still exists in the world that you want to believe that, like,

music is still being made because someone needs to make it. They just, yeah. They wouldn't be the same if they didn't make it, you know? Dude, I, so we had one day off in New York. I live in Brooklyn, and when I'm out on the road, I like, I have a, I have his chest. that I just collect instruments, instruments, gear, whatever. Yeah, yeah. I just love to make music.

Okay. And so I went home to drop all that stuff off. And, you know, I knew I'd be away for so long that I covered all of my gear, you know, because it gets dusty. It's an old hundred-year-old house, you know. And, you know, so I covered everything. And I started pulling the stuff off. And I smiled, like, just this, like, very honest, alone smile.

And I yell over to my wife, who's a little. in the bathroom and I'm like, Chandra, and I tell her that I'm taking the stuff, and I smile, like, I was just, I couldn't wait. I can't wait to go back home and just like, joy. It is, it's so much joy in like, I just, and, you know, I like to write songs kind of alone. It allows me to be whatever version of myself

without, you know, anyone's eyes on me, you know. No judgment. And, you know, I don't know, I just, I just love it. It was like, it was a cute moment. that I had because it just, it was just one of those things that I couldn't help, you know. I have that, too. I have those moments. Do you collect anything else? I do. I see your cause over here. I have some cause. I have, uh, I have all the Star Wars versions of cause. I have one of the dissecteds and black, uh, fluorescent. Oh, yeah. I love little, little knick-knacks and, uh, little things that make me

happy. This is like a little snapshot of what me and my son we collect. Oh, right on. And we're moving, but like we have this idea for this next, like when we move to build out this even bigger man cave that we have all of our stuff in because we collect cards. We collect Pokemon cards. We collect one piece. We collect baseball cards. We collect stock. Like we like toys. We like to go to flea markets. Oh, dude. We love all that shit. So like it's been something we've been doing together since he was like four or five. And we've just done it for the last 10 years. And we're both into some different stuff.

And then we're both agree on some stuff. So it's like a fun thing where we can go be together but also be a part. He could run and look for some other shit while I look for some other. You know, I like antiques and stuff like that while he's looking at like other shit. So it's cool to be able to do something with your kid that's like you do it together and apart. Or he'll find something and bring it home or I'll find something and bring it home. and like we get a lot of fucking good times out of collecting. Collecting, yeah.

So it's the best thing ever. I think we'll collect together forever. Yeah, that's cool. I love that. I do. I collect, um, what do I collect? I collect comics,

like key moment comics. I almost, so I'll tell you a funny thing. Today, I'll go to estate sales sometimes. So I'll find estate sales. I'm always tracking like in looking for good estate sales. There was an estate sale today in Hollywood that had a lot of comics.

And I knew you were into comics. So I went thinking, oh, I'll find him a cool, rare comic because that's what I do. Right. I'm always coming across this. And I went and waited in the line because they had these long lines at the good sales. And I waited and waited. And then I was going to be late. So I had to leave.

And I was pretty bummed because I got there before opening. But like it was, they probably have some good shit because I didn't even get to go inside. But I was going to try and find like a cool old comic there and like bring it for you. But I didn't make it. I didn't make it. I lost. That's really nice of you. I'll tell you a funny story about the first time I bought an expensive comic. The band was still in a van, and there was a comic shop, like in, like, maybe one of those

little strip malls next to the club that we were playing. I think we were in Long Island, and I get there, and I look behind the counter, and there's an incredible Hulk 181, graded at a 9.0. It's the first appearance of Wolverine. That's a good comic. Right. So I, and at the time, I think it was like maybe like $1,200 or something like that. And like I don't, I don't really buy things and clothes.

I mean, I think my outfit is probably Amazon and Walmart. Right. Outside from the shoes. Yeah, yeah, shoes are nice. You know, shoes will set the whole thing off, though. That's all you need. But, you know, so I was like so, I was like, oh, man, that's a lot of money. What do I do?

I called my mother. I called my mom to see if this is a crazy idea. Like, I'm going to buy this book. I think it's a great idea. And she's like, oh, you work so hard for your money. I remember this then. I was like, all right, I bought it. And that was the beginning of my, I mean, I'd always collected comics.

What's that comic worth today? Oh, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. But definitely more than that. Try to give you a number. I'll look it up right now. Maybe 10. I don't know.

Maybe 10 grand. I think so. I think over. I think you got 10 times your money that long ago. It's probably worth more. Hold on eBay, a 9.8. Incredible Hulk, 181. This is 9.8.

Yeah, that's 98. This is saying 119,000. Ah. Is that... Look up 9.5 and then look up last sales and see what the last sales in the last six months were on 9.5. Look at nines. I love this shit. Yeah, I do.

And I've got so... You probably have a 6. Okay, 9, 9,500. Okay, so in 9.5, you're probably in the 15 grand range to 20 grand range. range, I think. 9.8 is pretty close to 10. 10's hard to find. Yeah.

But 9.5 is a fucking stellar piece of, it's a stellar artifact. Yeah. It's like with baseball cards, Pokemon cards, if you get into like a Beckett, 9.5 to 10, you know, nines are a good buy, but like 9.5 to 10 is a great buy at a good price because those are the ones that are always going to be the wanted, you know, anything over 9.5 is like, it's crazy. Fucking great. Good job.

Yeah. Yeah. Now I have a bunch of them. They're all just in a safe in the closet. Yeah. It's funny how me and my son talk about this all the time

because we go into card shops and we go into comic shops and we talk to people who love this medium. They love trading cards. They love comics. And you learn something every time when you talk to the guy

who works there. Right. And I always ask him, hey, which one would you buy? And they'll always tell you like, you know. But what I love about it, this is why I like music and art and comics and everything's related.

It's something that I would say is not promoted to you at a young age as important. It's more trivial, it's fun, it's whatever, but it's not a real place to spend your time and your money. It's just a hobby or this or that. And then we're in a time now where I think it's actually being recognized as extremely valuable. And yet it's still not a good career choice if a kid says I'm going to, even like someone that says, I'm going to be a collector. That's a career choice. People could build careers out of that.

But just like bands, it's dismissed as childish, not important, mysterious in how you make it. I don't know how you do that. And yet, if you're successful, you're celebrated. it's weird if you're successful at it you're celebrated and if you're really successful you actually get a life out of it you actually have a very interesting and fun life that's a rich life in my opinion rich in all kinds of ways experience the journey you've had with yourself overtly I think is different than if you had not started making music and writing stories and creating it would be who know what would you even fuck I don't know what I'd be doing

I'd probably still be at the pet store cleaning fish tanks. Yeah, and you would likely not, I don't know if I ask you what's your, what's your on a scale of one to 10, like what's your happiness day to day? But I'll tell you this, whatever my number is, if it's a nine, these days it feels like it's like a nine or a 10 every day because I've gotten in touch with what I think what life is really about. And thanks to my kids, I think I've learned like what life is really about. But if I didn't go down the path that I went down where I took a chance, I don't

think I'd be happy. Yeah, no, probably not. I mean, no, I think it's so beautiful about art is you get to, and when you're saying, like, as a kid, you know, when you see comics or movies or music, it's your imagination. It's, that's where you live when you see those things, you know. Like, I remember being a kid in the car listening to whatever song was on the radio and outside the window was whatever my imagination put there. And I spend so much time in my imagination. I hear guys in the band riddle off, like what venue we played at or what happened at what show. And I can't remember any of it. Because, and I don't think it's because my memory is bad. It's just I'm thinking about so many other things that just don't exist. Hey, you're in your head. Yeah. Like, I do, I find that I miss out

on a lot of like life because of that. Like, when people recall things that maybe aren't part of the band or whatever have you, and I just have no recollection of it, it's because I'm playing. around in my own world, like, nonstop. It probably makes your relationship with your son really fun. Oh, yeah. I mean, he definitely loved, I just bought him his first guitar, actually. He came out. He was out for pretty much most of the tour. Him and my wife. My wife and I, we write the books together, actually. That's awesome. Yeah, she's a writer. So she helps in that respect. And so, but it also allows her the freedom to come out when he's not in school. So, yeah, she can work. Yeah.

Do you like working with your wife? Absolutely. I work with my wife. I love it. Yeah, it's the best. And I, you know, I'll like wake up in the middle of the night and I'll throw this idea at her and she'll be like, shut the fuck up. Yeah.

Yeah. We didn't always work together because I ended up working with her on, she has a fashion company. And I have a curiosity and a desire to learn how things function well. So I like businesses. I like understanding what a good business. feels like versus one that's not functioning, functioning and growing, right? So growth is a byproduct of a real functioning organism that's like going forward, right? So if your business isn't

growing, it means something isn't working. And figuring that out is a fun, I think it's a fun exercise. Me and my brother have always like doing that together. The band was such a great way to learn how to like build an organization. And then looking out at other businesses and realizing they're all kind of just bands and they have songs and they have the band name and the album name it's all marketing and products and this and so if you look at it from an artistic perspective you can start to spot like really good brands and really good companies and you can also see all the rest and kind of go like that's not special but that one's special right i don't know why but that burger that burger shop or you know that place whatever it is so as her

business grew in the last like 10 years i got involved because she needed it because she doesn't like that. She likes to create. She likes to design. Yeah. She's very good at it. Um, and over time, we started working together out of need. And now we work full time. I do, I work on that business full time. It's a week to week. I'm, I probably spend, I mean, the truth is, I probably spend 10 hours a week on it. And I organize my weeks by hours. Like, I always like to know how many hours. Um, I'm happy to spend more on anything that I love. But working together has been such a good experience, we have gotten closer. I found it come back to our marriage in like the team aspect of like figuring out something and then going and doing it and doing a good job and bringing it back.

And she's like, that's fucking awesome. Makes me feel good about myself. And then it carries over into like when we need to figure out a life thing or when we need to figure out a thing for school with the kids or this move we're going through was a was a real team kind of like figure some things out and go like, we should do this. This is going to be good for us. Like it brought us to like this team mentality. that I think is really important in marriage where some of it is emotional and romantic and all the things and some of it is a partner and you're our team in some moments in life.

You have to put things aside and go like, let's be a team and let's go get that thing and do this and get through this. And like I think working together has made us more married, more of a team. Because 18 years in, I kind of go, when anyone ever asked me like 18 years, how'd you guys do it?

I'm like, I don't really know, but I know we work together. And I know we give each other grace. Yeah, I mean, I love it. I can't see. I mean, that aside, like, my wife also just, like, makes me better. I mean, we're so, like, ying and yang, whereas I'm, like, the complete introvert, the quiet one, the shy one, she is a ray of sunshine.

Yeah. You know, she brings, like, I mean, just the other day, we were walking around the incubus camp, and they, uh, some of the, they were like, hey, where's your wife? Where's your wife? They could, like, feel her absence. You know what I mean? And, you know, that's dope. Yeah, she is just something else.

And whether it's like parenting, whether it's writing, she's a poet, she just brings so much, she just makes me better. Also, you see the talent in her. Oh, hell. And to celebrate each other's talent is a real thing. There's a real important aspect of like understanding, like, it's like me and my brother, right? And I think I could probably be in a long relationship because I've had a built-in partner in my whole life.

We both play different roles all the time. I was the lead singer, but it's kind of by default. Like when we started the band, he picked up the guitar. He just started learning it. He has a real, like, real drive to get things done and to learn things.

And he always kind of drove everything. And he was like, you'll be the singer. And I was like, okay, that was it. I didn't see myself as a lead singer, didn't see myself as a frontman, whatever you'd call it. And then as the band went on, I became that.

And whenever it was time to go on stage, that's what I was. But when we got off stage, I kind of wasn't. I was just there with everyone. And he was kind of the guy who was always like, let's take this hill, everybody, let's go. And he was certainly the one when things were hard that said, nah, guys, we got this. Let's keep going.

Let's keep going. You know? And so I kind of feel like I function like that in my relationship too. Like I know when I'm the lead singer and I know when I'm not. And it's a natural thing that when you go on stage, you do what you do, but I don't walk around and think, like, oh, I'm the lead singer, I'm whatever that, if there are people that do that, I don't know. But I definitely don't do that. Yeah. You know? It's funny that you say that that's how you fell into being the lead center.

It's not that different. I had been the guitar player in the band, and I know we're talking about our wives, but it's just wild that you say this. And at the time, the singer of the band couldn't make the rehearsals, so I would fill in. It was a function of need. Yeah, like, so we need to know how to get to what parts and whatever have you. And I started singing the drummer at the time was like, why don't you just sing in the band? And I'm like, oh, oh, shit. Oh, no, no. Yeah. And then you know how that goes. It's like, band breaks up. You start it again with the new, you know, one less member, a different name. Yeah, yeah. But I feel similar to you. I wouldn't necessarily at that time. Now I feel like I've gained confidence in the sense of like, well, who would sit down and have a show

like this? Right. It has to be someone who's comfortable, like. Yeah. putting themselves in what could be very uncomfortable. Sometimes you talk to someone that doesn't want to talk. I don't know. I've only had great conversations here, but it's putting yourself out there in a lead singer kind of way. But at the time, it wasn't like I was like, yeah, I'm a fucking lead singer.

I was terrified of it. And it was a great challenge because, I mean, the first few shows we did, I couldn't even turn around. My back was to the audience. I was terrified. Yeah. And then I had to do it.

The opportunities were coming. and we kept getting shows and I had to do it and I had to overcome it. And I think it was one of the greatest things in my life where I had to like overcome being shy because I was shy actually and I still am I think sometimes but I've learned how to like

I think I had to learn how to not be shy but I definitely wasn't ego you know, well I've never thought like oh I'm the greatest lead singer or greatest friend of me I've never really had an opinion on that. It's weird. Yeah. I didn't even know what kind of lead singer I am. I just know that I had to be the guy

that we needed at the time. that we needed at the time. And then I grew into it. And then the band did what it did. So it's one of those weird things you can't really make sense of sometimes. But obviously you had the talent and you have a unique voice. It's funny that you wouldn't go like, I'm a fucking lead singer. But then somehow, some way, life has a way of pushing you into the spot you're supposed to be in.

Right. And you discover like your talent. I know. And, you know, again, that's why the concept was created. I was like, holy shit, I'm being pulled. into this position where now I have to be the voice box of these feelings. And it's like, how do I do this so I could be truthful and honest without like giving away story or villainizing anyone that's involved, you know? I love it. Yeah. It was just like, this is how I have to do it.

And, um, you know, and like you said, with time, it definitely got more comfortable with it. I started to sing more. Like that became like, I almost, guitar playing almost became second. Um, because I was like, I need to figure out how to get this to be, because I know, I listened to those old tapes as a kid. I'm like, oh, God. Do you get a lot of happiness out of singing? Absolutely, because it's my voice. It's really when I get to, like, express myself in the most truthful way.

Like, it's hard, like, I am so, like, for example, this, like, all morning I was, like, thinking what the questions were going to be. Yeah, like, what the fuck are I going to talk about? I mean, I've been doing this for over 20 years and I can't, like, get, like, I can't not be anxious about, like, interviews. That's all of us. Yeah, it's just, it's insane. So, but like, but when singing happens, it's like, I really get to be whatever form of myself I need to be to express whatever thought I have.

And I appreciate that, that I do have, like, my voices is well enough that I can execute that. Yeah, people love it. I don't know how it got there. Just letting you know. Like, people love your voice. It's very, it's very unique. It's very unique. So it's, it's, you know who's singing when you hear it.

it's cool, it's just different. It's like, it's, you can, you can, you can rest knowing that your music sits in this place by itself. This is a very hard thing to say. Like, like, by the way, I'm very proud of what I, what I've done. I'm just me. I just did the best I could with what I had. Right. Right. But if you put my band next to this, next to this, you could find there's similarities in all of our music to certain stuff. I think my voice, it sounds like my voice. But when you hear yours, it's right away. It's a really unique thing that's very special. and that you wear it well. You're very humble. You're very humble and that's really nice. But I also think that like there's this thing and I'm sure sure you do, but to cherish that like

unique thing that you were born with that you found. Thank God you did. Imagine if you never got to sing. There are probably people walking around with amazingly unique voices that don't sing at all. We'll never hear that unique special voice. You know what I mean? Yeah. So weird to think about. Yeah, that's really nice of you to say. But to answer your quiet, like when it comes time, you know how it is. Being a singer,

like playing live, if you lose that thing, you know, and the cancellations that could potentially happen. And all that, you know, the weight that's on you. It's pressure.

It is, a lot of pressure. Like, in the middle of this thing, one day, it was so wild, like the middle of this tour, I lost my voice.

That sucks. I don't know if it was because of, COVID because we didn't test or it couldn't have been fatigue. It was so random. It was just one day, like we go out there, we do this early entry song. It's an acoustic piece like, you know, for VIPs

or whatever have you and we do it and like I mean, it comes out, it's like, as if I were doing my best rendition of like Tom Waits. It was just gravel and you're like, I'm fucked. Yeah, I was like, this is not right. Something's wrong and we ended up playing the show. We ended up having the audience

like sing. You know, we just we gave them the opportunity to decide whether or not they wanted that or a cancellation. And it gave me enough time to go and see the doctors and find out what was the problem. And sure enough, there was enough time. Some steroids. Yep. Yeah. That's what I do.

It becomes a thing. Yeah. Pop steroid. Yep. Prednisone. Yep. My old friend. Yep.

But no cancellations. No cancellations. Yeah. Yeah. It's terrible to become dependent on, which I haven't. But certainly keep a bottle of prednisone with me on tour now. If I even get horse, I take one. I'm not telling other singers to do this at all.

By any means, I'm saying what I do. Because I am so self-conscious and anxious about losing my voice, I feel completely broken and powerless when I go on stage and I can't sing. Yeah. I hate, I lost my voice once. I think I developed like a nodule or a pall-up or whatever they are called on them. and I think my options were either six months rest or something like that, vocal rest, or surgery.

I did the rest. I didn't want the surgery, so we did. And it worked. Yeah, it went away. And this was years and years ago. So ever since that happened, it's become a thing that I've definitely taken seriously, like, you know, in terms of regiments and things like that.

Yeah. I love when I get to sit with other guys in bands and recognize like all the hard work that you've done. has amounted to something really special. And the movie, I think, is going to happen. I think, listen, it might take 20 years, but I think you're going to really, it's going to just be really hard.

It's like climbing another mountain. But I think there's a movie there. I really do. I think that's a whole ass movie. Yeah. Me too. Yeah. It is.

Wasn't my intention, but now as it sits behind, as all the history sits behind me, it's definitely something I can see in the future. What's your favorite story? you've told. My favorite story that I've told. We're writing No World right now. I think, honestly, I think my favorite story so far is the last one we just did. Right. You know, my wife and I were writing the companion to the record that we just finished. We actually recorded some of it here.

In here, yeah, I remember. With Zach. Yeah. Zach Serveni. Yeah, he did the last in, and this one. I love Zach. Oh, he's great. He's great. What a guy. Yeah. The story that we're writing right now is a little bit more is darker, whereas the last one, the window of the waking mind, is very hopeful. And I do. I think that one ends on a beautiful cliffhanger with my grandfather. There's a lot of parallels between my life as a dad and my son and my wife. And so far, that I think is my favorite, just because it's the one that really kind of magnifies my life at the moment. Cool. Whereas the new one, as much as I love it, it's more of an empire strikes back. It's a darker story. It doesn't end on a, on the nice note that the last one did. What's next? For me,

well, we're done with this tour. We have like, you know, Australia coming, a new record next year. When's the record? I believe the top of the year. Okay, cool. You know, we're still, like, my wife and I, we're still gathering all the, uh, the illustrations for the, the companion piece, as well as writing the pros. We're almost finished with it. I think this week, weekend, we're going to, when I get home, we're going to go through the editorial. But, you know, that's the big thing. We have a video coming out to start the cycle of that pretty soon, probably next month. But yeah, like, you know, we're going to do when we were young.

Yeah. You know. That's a great show. Are you on that? We played last year. Last year, okay. It was awesome. Oh, right on.

Dude, it was so much fun. It was our first show in like six years. Yeah. And it was so much fun. Oh, great. Dude, it was great. You're going to love it. Yeah, we're going to do that. You know, that's pretty much it. Furnace Fest in Alabama. Cool. Blindside Sunny is out today. It is. That's great. Well done. Thank you.

How long has it been since a new music? Last year, maybe the record came out. I'm not sure. Maybe two years. Maybe it's two years. This is good. Yeah. New single out. It's great. Yep. I wrote it in Paris. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, I took a trip to Paris. My wife, so my wife, you know, she's a writer. So she went out to, we went to Paris, we hung out for a little bit, and then she went over to Italy. She did some writing, and I stayed behind in Paris.

I don't know if you know, when I created the idea of Co-Eating Cambrian, I created in 1998 when I took a trip to Paris. It was one of the things that, like, when I was like, I'm going to write these science fiction stories, yada, yada, yada, yada, like, that was the thing that inspired me,

taking a trip there. I hadn't been anywhere in my life at that time. I was like 18. First I had gone was like New Jersey. Yeah. was like, here I was in Paris, and that sort of like was the catalyst to doing, okay, well, you know, if I'm going to tell fictitious my life in a fictitious way, this will be it. Well, congrats on everything.

Thank you, Joel. And congrats on the single. Thanks, yeah. And you did that one with Zach, right? Yes, we did. Sick. Yeah. I love Zach.

Oh, he's the best. He's the best. Like, it's, it, that, that, the chemistry, like, you know, for me, what I think if I find so important is that Zach allows me to put the songs together. Yeah. in my place. Yeah. And I come here and we just,

the magic is where. Yeah, you don't need an idea guy. You need a creative partner who can help you make the thing and just stay out of the way while you create and then help build the thing in real time. That's what Zach does really well.

Yeah, man. He helps you in real time. Because if you work fast, he can keep up. If you work slow, he can do it. But like, he has a real feel for working with artists.

And like, He's really humble, but he knows what he's doing. Yeah. And you get great results when he lets you be you and you can just like put that song together and he can keep up. I think it's awesome that you guys work together. He's the best. He's awesome.

Yeah. He's dope. Well, congrats, dude. Thank you. Thanks for coming. Thank you for having me. Awesome. Awesome.

Thanks. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of artist friendly. If you really liked it, you can follow, like, subscribe to the show, anywhere you listen to podcast, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support, and we'll see you next time.