Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Dan + Shay

Episode Date: August 26, 2026

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden sits down with Dan + Shay. Dan + Shay met at a house party in Nashville in December 2012 and started writing songs together not long after — an unlikely pairing, given Dan came from an emo band background and Shay had been a solo artist on T-Pain's label. Since then, the duo has become one of the most decorated acts in country music history: three consecutive Grammy Awards for Best Country Duo/Group Performance for "Tequila," "Speechless," and "10,000 Hours" with Justin Bieber, alongside dozens of ACM, CMA, and Billboard Music Award wins. Their crossover success has made them global streaming juggernauts, and in 2024 they became the first-ever coaching duo in the history of NBC's The Voice. Sitting down with Joel, Dan + Shay open up about the highs of over a decade together — the awards, the arenas, the recognition — but also the harder work underneath it: learning to communicate honestly, untangling their self-worth from their results, and figuring out what it actually means to build a lasting partnership, both as a band and as best friends. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The first single off the record is called Say So and grateful that it's doing well, but we wrote it about our friend who took his life a little over a year ago, who meant a lot to us in our career, obviously. He was our publisher and introduced us to our record label, but he was also a good friend and was there for us. And on the outside, he was one of those guys that we thought everything was right. You know, he's always happy, like always checking in, but it was just such interesting perspective.

I'm sure you've had situations like that with people you love too. And we all have, man. It's a real thing. And it just shook our world in Nashville. and we were just in the room. It was on our hearts that day. We were talking about it. And that's a heavy song for what we do.

You know, I think we even referenced like, hold on by Good Charlotte. You know, it's a similar kind of thing that it didn't feel necessarily like a Dan and Shea thing. We write a lot of wedding songs, you know?

And I got home that day and played the demo that song from my wife. And she was like, man, that's beautiful. You guys would write that for Ben on his birthday. And we had no idea that it was his birthday that day. It would have been his 50th. In that moment,

I was like, man, this is where we're supposed to be going right now. That's more than coincidence that that happened. And that kind of became one of the guiding lights for the album. How have you guys been? Dude, been so good, man. Been busy.

I mean, it feels good to be kicking things back up. Trying to turn this album in. I think you've got a little advanced link or leak on it. Okay. It's not mastered yet, so don't judge the compression level is too hard. No, man, it's been really good. It's been really good. I feel like we're just in the best place we've ever been as friends, you know,

co-workers or whatever you'd call it. You're in a band with your brother. It's like it. It ain't always easy. You've got to work through it. And we've been through highs and lows. And I don't know, man. It's just, I think you get this far into your career.

And I don't know, we've been able to accomplish more than we ever set out to accomplish in the first place. I think when it's all happening for you for the first time, it's happening so fast, you win a Grammy or you do this. And you're just like, oh, you're holding on for dear life. And then you get away from it and things slow down a little bit. And it puts it in perspective. And it makes you wish you would have maybe slowed down a little bit more. but I think now when we get to do those things again, and I think it sounds corny to say,

but the words get to are important, not that we have to all. We have to go do this. It's like, we get to go to this. We get to fly to Vegas and perform on an award show. We get to come talk to you. I mean, it's awesome.

It's unbelievable, man. I mean, it's a privilege. I don't think it's corny at all. Yeah. I just feel like keeping gratitude in our lives has just been important to us and just enjoying the moments because there were a lot of times

that I wish I could go back and enjoy those moments for the first time again, you know? Yeah. But it's part of the thing. It's part of it. Yeah. You know, I think at the beginning, I do think about this, like, at the very beginning,

we were just so, we didn't have families. You know, we're out there just like, it's crazy to look at how different it is, you know, then versus now. And just like the things, like, we were willing to go out there and tour 280 days out of the year. Absolutely. You had to. And now there's no way, like, I think if we were starting at this point, it would just be like a, I don't know if that's.

worth it, dude, because you'd have to lose this part of you. And I'm thankful, like, that we were kind of at that place in our lives when we first started and, you know, living on no money and just hopes and dreams. And like, it was so fun. And it is, I don't know, I'm thankful for those times, but now it's like, what are we putting weight into? Or it's like, I love what we do and trying to find that, like, that balance is very difficult. I don't know if there ever is like a real work, life balance. I think there's time. There's seasons, I think, more than anything of like, all right, we're hitting it hard. Like we've been gone for like eight days and we're having a blast.

You know, and I'll go back home and be dad and we'll, you know, work when we will work. But I don't know, it is trying to not put too much weight into these bad things that happened to you or good things. So you try to live your life kind of right there in the middle somewhere.

But I don't know if I think you never stop searching. That's nice to hear though. Because the thing that gave you the ability to have the family and the life and the nice life is also the thing that can take it. 100%. Yeah. And the balance is like you may never find the balance, but if you're trying, like that's it. It's just trying because everyone around you can feel it when you try.

You know, your wife or your kids or, you know, for me, it's my wife and kids. They can feel me trying to be the best dad I can be, the best husband I can be, even if I'm not getting it all the way right. There's a, there's a felt like I am more important than that. For sure. You know what I mean? And that thing takes me away. No way around it. It's going to take me away a bunch of times.

So they now are part of the sacrifice. Yeah. So my kids and my wife are part of my, like this is theirs as much as it is as it is mine as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. Because they're sacrificing. They're giving up. I've missed a couple things, key moment things that like that they didn't choose for me to miss it.

I had to go do it. I thought at the time, whatever. And like, would I go do it again? I don't know. I can't change it. but I can express to them that like one, I wish I had it, but I had to at the time I thought I had to do it. And all I'm trying to do is provide.

Yeah. And I'm trying to find the balance. It's fucking hard. It's hard to. We're just trying. Just trying. We're just trying, bro. I love that.

What is at this point in your career? Because you've been doing it for a minute. You've had all the success in the world. You don't have to do this anymore. You know what I'm saying? I talk about this with my therapist. It's trying to find what's your why. What is your why for doing it now?

Is it, it's obviously like you're in an amazing financial place. It's not like, oh, we got to go do these gigs to pay the bills. It's like, is it a responsibility to yourself, to your fans, you know? Yeah, good Charlotte today is not a money question. Right. It's just not. Although I do realize when we go out, we do provide jobs for people, which makes you feel really good.

It's amazing. We keep our crew and stuff on. And so it provides some stability for people, which I feel really. good about. So doing X number of gigs a year does provide for a bunch of people. And I feel great about that, but it is a sacrifice. The Y for me is two things. I do feel some debt of gratitude to the people that made Good Charlotte matter, that made the music matter in the first place. And when people want to see us, I do feel like some calling to like do enough that felt for me that feels like I put effort into giving to like enough shows. Like this year we'll do

quite a bit of shows actually for us is we'll probably do like 40 shows. Yeah. Which is like a bunch of festivals. One US tour is more like the US tour is like 20 shows. Yeah, probably like 40 or 50 shows which to me feels like a substantial amount. Yeah. Of like going and playing those shows for the people that want to see them. And they are like also the biggest shows of our career. So like the shows just got bigger. And it feels like we have to acknowledge that as well. Like it feels something like that. Like it feels like one, the people that work for and with Good Charlotte, that's one group to me. The people that made Good Charlotte matter and the people that give us the ability to roll in and play a show at the level that we do it. It's not us. It's the whole team, the crew.

everybody that puts the show on they're so fucking good yeah and it makes us a big band yeah you know and then the other thing that i think is equally important is the legacy yeah is to try and continue to kind of like polish the legacy yeah and make it what we what we want it to be because this thing gave us a life like this band we started in our bedroom we were 15 gave us everything as far as we're concerned. And now our lives feel a lot bigger. If you look under the hood or if you go deeper into like what we do, it's bigger than Good Charlotte. But that is the thing that like gave us everything. So we feel like it's a bit of that. It's like honoring the kind of thing and protecting and polishing the legacy. So it remains like what we think it should be. Yeah. Because it means so much to

like us and us as fans of you guys, but like for our brand too, I do think that we've, when I think about our legacy, a lot of times I will think about like what we did and what it means to us and how we want to be seen. But it like, it is an amazing thing that we can start a band and then this thing after 10 years becomes like a legacy for other people. Yeah. Like it means a lot to other people. And that's kind of hard to say sometimes because it feels like weird of like, I don't know, we all get in these places as artists where it's like, I don't even know if people like care anymore. Like, you know, you get to the spot.

You're like, the internet will do that too. The internet will really wreck your life, you know? And it's like, but I do think it's a really amazing thing. And I, that is one thing that I feel more when we're out. And we're, you know, if you get on the internet, you're like, man, everything just sucks. Like everybody hates everything. It's terrible. These are going down.

Man, like, what's happening? And it's like, when you get out and you see people face to face and they tell you, your music save my life or just got me through a really tough time and you're just like, Exactly. Man, you just kind of, it puts you right back in your place of, first of all, it's not that you are an important thing. What you have been allowed to be a part of means a lot to people. And you have to acknowledge that, not in a way of like, wow, I'm so special.

But it is very special that you got to be a part of this. And it was a gift, like you said. And I do think I have been thinking a lot more about that recently of our legacy of what we want that to be and just like, man, this really does mean a lot to a lot of people. And it's very, you can feel heavy sometimes almost where it's just like, okay, this is a responsibility, but also like, we get to do this. This is unbelievable. For me, it's like, I just try to acknowledge it the best I can and do the best I can. And I'm not going to always nail it. But as long as we treat the band, like why we say it, I've said it a million times,

because this is exactly how we feel. To us, this band is like a 1965 Chevy Impala super sport in perfect condition that we've modified, that we've taken care of, that we've been stewards of this classic automobile that we feel lucky that it came into our possession and there's no price tag on it we would never sell it we wouldn't let anyone lean on it we'd never let anyone eat in it we wouldn't let anyone drive it but we love to take it out and we love to we love showing people it if they're interested opening it up the doors and showing them what we've done to the interior and showing them the chromeed out engine and showing them all the the beautiful things we've done to the car and how we, and all of our, you know, how we take care of it. And like, we protect it. We keep it in the

garage. We keep it perfect. And we take it out. And we do some things every now and then do it. And we modify it. And that's how we feel about the band. We feel like it's such a great visual. Yeah, we feel like that's what it is. Like, again, it's a beautiful, incredibly special thing we possess. We love to share. And if you ask me, if I want to go do that, yes, I do. But if you told me, I couldn't. I would also be okay. I'd be like, okay, I'm also happy to be home with my, my family. I think that's such a healthy place to be. And I think only time and growing up age can take you there. Because there was definitely a time in your life and there's been times in our life where it's like, this went away. I'm fucked. I got nothing else. This is all I got. I've given myself so much.

And I think part of the reason why we've all been successful is because we did give ourselves to it so holy, you know, early. But it's, I don't know, gratitude again, man. We're in a place right now that we get to go out and do something that we love with the homies. You know what I'm saying? Like I get to see guys like the bass player in our band. Him and I covered little things, you know? Like we were playing music together since we were in fifth, sixth grade. And we're still out there like performing on stage and screwing around after the show,

you know, doing the whole thing. It's like, that's cool. When you can enjoy the process, that makes, I don't know, all the wins and losses, it makes them matter a little bit less. Yeah. The process is what it's all about, you know? You can't control the outcome. Can't control what the name in that envelope is at an award show.

And I'm still battling with this. This is like what sent me to therapy. I've dealt with some shit the last few years. And I encourage therapy to anyone. You know, I know you do too. A hundred percent. It's like changed my life. It's saved my life.

Me too, bro. Me too. And I just, there was a time that I lived and died so much by the result. I remember an award show. It was the CMAs. I think it was 20, 2019 probably. It was like after tequila.

we were on top of the world. Like it was popping in lightning in a bottle moment, nominated for Grammy. First time all this stuff was happening to us. We were the most nominated act, like album of the year, music video of the year, tequila,

single the year, song of the year. We thought we were going to clean up at the award show, you know, everything's happening. Multiple songs on the radio. We go,

first award comes up, goes to somebody else. Second award comes up, goes to somebody else. Third one were like, surely, I mean, we were so nominated. They must like us.

We lost every single one of them. And it broke me, man. I don't, you know, I don't cry that often, I guess it's a Pittsburgh thing. I maybe bottled up my emotions too much. Therapies helped me with that. But I went on the bus and broke down after the show and I was like, my world is wrecked. I'm a failure just based on things that I couldn't control. Yeah. And from the outside, and I feel like I treated people like an asshole because of it. Our team, I was storming off being a crybaby and just like, fuck this, you know, and it was our team was there like, man, I wish I could go back and change that. I mean, it's part of

the story and it's part of what helped me work through it. But it was just one of those moments that like I put too much emphasis on that. And I, if you step back, it's like, well, the reason you're mad about losing is because you had so many good things going on. It's like, can you just be grateful for the fact that we had hit songs popping off that we were selling tickets, that we were on a tour bus with our buddies getting to hang? I mean, again, perspective hindsight's 20-20 on it, but it wrecked me. And now I think it's, I don't know. I mean, that was like the hottest moment of our career. Things aren't as, we're trying to get them back there. You know, we're working hard. We're putting out music that we're proud of. But I think it doesn't, it doesn't kill me as much as it used to.

It's like enjoying that process of getting to go do this. We came in from Vegas. We lost the damn award last night. We were like, yeah, it's all good. Stayed out late and hung with, with our friends. So you would say that you've probably struggled with, you've had the internal struggle with. So I'm trying to, I relate to it. But I'm trying to, but I've seen. But I've it a lot. Sure. And I've seen it with like a lot of artists, especially being in management. There's a certain personality type, right? We're not all so different. There's like a garden variety of us of like entertainers, right? And certainly in like lead singers and certainly in like certain like, and I would say you guys are both lead singers, but you're not in a band with eight people.

Yeah, sure. You play with a bunch of guys, but it's the two of you. Right. But I can imagine that you guys are, are probably not not exactly the same, like me and my brother, right? Yeah. Like, I'm probably more of the personality that's similar to you. 100% where my self-esteem was really wrapped up in this. Yep. So if we didn't achieve something, I really took it personally. It was my worth.

My worth was wrapped up in it. And that played out in some certain ways that weren't good because I wasn't aware of it. So I was anxious. I was very edgy. When I was anxious, I was very, like, I could be really unpleasant. right? And you'd be like, I want to hang out with him and they're like, no, you know, trust me. You don't if I can hang out with the singer, right? Not all the time, but like, like, I would turn on the people that love me because I had to kind of be nice to everyone. And then I want to,

I don't want anyone not to like me. So I'm going around being like overly nice and overly pleasing and then like overly happy and overly excited. And then I turn on my brother. Thank God I had a twin brother though, because he took 90% of it. And so, because I had a partner like that, he was the punching bag. And he got the worst of it. Two points where he was like, I don't even fucking want to work with you at some points. And then I started working on myself and I discovered the depth of my own self-esteem. And why I was so insecure and why a win meant so much to me or why everyone liking me meant so much to me. And then when I started working on that, immediately it lets the pressure out. And I start

to realize, like, and I can go and make repairs with people. I can go say, I'm sorry. And I can start to right size things. So that when I don't get nominated or don't win an award or something, a result that I was, because it's the next result. I'm hanging my self-esteem on that. And then I forget about that one that I was a total asshole about because we didn't win. And I'm putting it on one and then it's a cycle you you you attach it to anything on any shiny object of the moment that makes you feel like you're worth something of course so it'll be an award or it'll be a person or it'll be an achievement or it'll be a hit song or it'll be that can be a great drive in the beginning but can serve us a little bit but if we don't become aware of it it becomes a total

a nightmare because it's a terrible cycle when we're hanging up our joy on like results, right? Because sometimes those results aren't actually good. You think you want to win and it might not be good. Sure. It might be the worst thing that could happen to you. And you can't know until later. And then you think something bad happened and it's the worst and then it actually turns out it was pretty good. It didn't happen actually. It's good we didn't get that gig. Yeah. It's good I didn't do that TV show. But that being said, would you say you were the same? I was, I think that there was. Or are you more Benji?

I was definitely, I'd let things grow off my back sometimes, but also like, it was interesting to watch like both of our, because I can see it kind of from like a 30,000 foot view now of like the dynamic. And I think there was unhealthy dynamics between both of us because we process things a lot differently. And now when I'm looking back on it, I'm like, oh, that's, he's over there like working like all night. I'm over here like just doing really nothing

because I'm trying to stay out of his way and I can see all of like the things that happened. But it's interesting because I think that the even though we process things differently, I think there was a, the biggest thing that happened, I think was just a communication stop. A breakdown.

A breakdown where it was like... What was that you think? Well, I think it was just like getting older. You know, it's like we both got married and it's just kind of like we'd go on the road and then it's just kind of when we get home, it's like, all right, we're out. And like little things became bigger.

And we got to this point, I think it was 2021, where it was like, man, like, this is just getting really tough. And we had like, there's a lot of situations that were not great. Like there were some people that we were working with that just they, it wasn't necessarily that they were bad. It was just the dynamic was off and a communication breakdown all around. All the middlemen and the handlers and the people. Yeah.

And some kind of go-betweens between Dan and I that like was a band-aid for a while. But I see it now and I'm like, man, we've all had that. We had that moment in 2021 and it was kind of like, all right, do we right off into the sunset and celebrate our accomplishments or do like we have some maybe really hard conversations, you know, with each other and fix this? And that's what we did. And it's just that communication kind of changed everything. But it is. I also look at Dan and some of the things that he struggled with and the things that I struggled with, even though they were different. I watch some of the, the drive. And I'm sure you guys are both like this. I think there's good and bad sides to, you know,

maybe some of the things that you struggle with are like being hard on your, yourselves when you're in a healthy place is also like that's like the biggest driver like he's the hardest worker I know it's a strength and it's a strength and I think it is important to like call those things out of like yeah he he might not sleep he probably sleeps you know one hour to my 30 but yeah he's it's one of the reasons that we were successful one of the biggest drivers that we were successful as a band is like the hard work and stuff but yeah all that to be said I think that we process things very differently but it's uh I think that's why it's why it works If we were, you know, the same person, it'd be a nightmare.

So there was a point where you were like, I don't know if this is going to. Big time. Yeah, yeah. To the point where it was like the moment was, you know, we worked hard. We did these tours. We had these hit records. And then we got like the most coveted slot, the opening support slot in country music. It's like Kenny Chesney, who we grew up big fans of.

He does the big NFL stadiums. It's a whole thing. It's like a mini festival. You know, he does the show on Saturday. I used to go to it every year growing up. Yeah. Heinzfield and Pittsburgh. It was like, we would party, we'd get down there, eight in the morning.

It was awesome. We got the offer to do that direct support. It was a great lineup. Big payday. It's awesome. And we were in such a place where we're like, fuck it, do we, do we bail off of this tour? Which is crazy to say now. And if you would have told us that in 2013 when we got this thing going, we'd be like,

what are you talking about? That's nuts. But I just feel like it was just in such like a tense place that it didn't feel right. It was like, yeah, we got to go out and get the money or whatever. but I feel like we got to this crossroads in our career where we weren't sure if we were, I don't know, I think it also like, because duos are tough, man. It's a tough configuration. It's like a marriage, but, you know, there's just a lot on the line.

And like you said earlier, communication is everything and we just weren't communicating. And we got to this place where I think both of us have, like you said, a lot of respect for the legacy and the catalog and the songs and everything that we've been fortunate enough to accomplish, our fans. It's so much the same story as yours, but it's like we felt like we owe it to that. We owe it to ourselves, you know, as friends, as collaborators, as partners. Let's figure this out. We have to figure this out, whether it is like, you know what, man, we've done all this amazing stuff for 10 years. Let's just like call it a day and go out on this Kenny tour as our farewell tour. And it's beautiful and we can look back on our legacy with without like tarnishing,

you know, without like looking on it in vain. And I called Shay. I was, like, hey man, can you come over and talk? And I think like, our wives and our inner circle were like, holy shit. I'm driving over there, like, shaking a little like always going to happen. My wife, Abby, like, took the dogs to a friend's house and just like, we wanted no distractions. He came over one night. And that moment was like the most pivotal, critical moment in our entire career. More than any record deal signing, more than any song getting on the radio, that was a moment that changed everything. Because we were in a place where we were like, all right, man, we're either going to say peace out to this thing or we're going to figure this shit out and get it right because where we're at right now

is not sustainable. And it's not like we hated each other. Like Shea said, it's like when we live together in 2013 and we were just going to the bar every night and playing music and you're touring and you're out in clubs, like you're the homies. Everybody's in one bus and it's just like it's party all the time and you don't have a chance to grow in different directions, which is healthy to grow in different directions, I think too. You know, we both started our own families and then, Yeah, if you're not keeping in touch when you come home, it's hard to pick it back up, you know? So he came over that night and I think it was just, it was like the healthiest conversation. I like, in hindsight, like wish we had some hidden cameras in there.

I wish somebody was like, we had gopros in the corner. We got that. That's content for the documentary. Yeah, we got it. But I think the fact that there weren't cameras on made it that much more special and important. And he ended up staying at the house till like three, four in the morning and just hash out. What was the conversation? man we we had it was a lot of a lot of things i think one if i can look back on one moment that i think that

maybe in my mind shifted it was just like man we've got to like fix this i want i want dan to be able to enjoy these things like like i want to enjoy them like there was moments i think me not enjoying them hurt your ability to enjoy them too you guys sure yeah you wanted each other to be happy absolutely and i think at the at the core of it it was just like dude i don't know like how to make you enjoy these things or like i want to be happy and then like that kind of made me stress because I'm trying to be like a good partner. But there was times like we'd step off a sold out arena show and it would be like one thing and like Dan would be devastated.

Whatever that was. Pixel in the video wall was out. I was like, man, this show was a piece of shit. So you have a real. It's interesting. It's interesting. This is a real thing and it's not wrong. That's the other thing is like you got to realize like you were made in an interesting way

and that's why you can do what you do. 100%. I were artists and we're like we're all twisted up. sometimes and we have, that's why therapy is so good. Oh, it's amazing. Because if we can understand ourselves, we can contain it a little bit in some spots and then point it at certain things and let it go wild. And I think you probably have a OCD type personality that gets hung up on a detail and you get in a loop because my manager's looking at me over there. She's a real time. Sorry, go. So that's scratch. That's all,

That's all anxiety based, but anxiety is such a bad word, right? Yeah. But there's good anxiety. Yeah. I'm anxious. I want to do good. It's the same with fear, man. Like when you have fear, fear.

Fear can be wielded in a good way. And I needed to understand that about him because I was so chill sometimes where it was like, I wanted to be the opposite. I was like, man, Dan's not enjoying any of this. And so I was like, this is crazy that he doesn't. Like, we just, that was the sickest show ever. And he is literally like so furious with like his, mix or whatever it was. It was not about that. There was, you know, other things that were

that were happening. But once we kind of started communicating, it made me understand, like, first of all, it's a strength to like be OCD and see those things that, like those details that people don't see because I'm certainly not going to see them. And our show's probably, if I was running the show of like that side of things, our show would be absolutely terrible. It would just be like, nah, I'd be sick. All over the place. You know, like, but that's our superpower as if when we finally were like, hey, you're not good at enjoying these things sometimes. I enjoy everything, even when it's bad. So if we can meet somewhere in the middle,

we can make this beautiful thing, which is what happened in the beginning. We had both been writing songs forever separately. And when we came together and wrote that very first song, even the friends around us were like, well, this is better. This is unbelievable. Like what you guys have been writing together is really special.

And it was like, what is that? And it was like, well, at the beginning, we weren't, it was chemistry. It was natural chemistry and it was made to be in the world. And so like, you know, looking at how that kind of, you know, ran its way, how that river ran through the years. I think it was just, I'm super proud of when we did get to that moment to recognize, first of all that, hey, this, we can't continue on this way. And instead of breaking up, like, man, duo is like just historically, it's not a great

track record. They break up. I mean, that's just kind of what they do. They always be breaking up. They be breaking up a lot. Yeah. And so, like, I'm pretty proud of that, you know, just like, man, we, we fix this. And not only, like, are we communicating?

but it makes me appreciate the things that I thought drove me crazy about him are some of the things that I love the most about them now that I know what they are and I understand them and we've both done therapy

and like understand ourselves a lot more now which is just like again back to the therapy thing like it's vital to you know and back to our original point of like what are we all doing as artists trying to figure this out

we're all just trying to you know be the best versions of ourselves you know and I think it also has now at this point in our career kind of come out in our music in an amazing way like it never has before where it's just like talking about the reason why

it's like why are we putting out this music and this new album that we're putting out really for the I don't want to say for the first time we've had moments like this of songs on albums but this entire project was like it felt like a clean slate of oh we're starting from a healthy

place of we've been to therapy we know a little bit more of how to handle our situation and it was like an exploration of kind of our entire career and where we are right now and songs that like, it matter to us.

It isn't just a bop. We love a bop. Like, we've got those songs and we hopefully have a million more of them. But it was like, man, this music like really,

this matters. And at this point, talking about like the legacy of, if we can't do that now, then, you know, then when would we ever do it? We don't need to chase this stuff.

Like let's, we have something to give to the world. Let's do it. Funny, something just came to my mind. My dad used to say this to me. I was estranged from my dad for a very long time.

Yep. It was very hard. And then later in life, we met each other, we got back together. It was great. We became, the man I thought I hated, I loved. And he was me. I saw so much.

That's what happens when you get older. He used to say to me, man, what's you worried about? I was just thinking that while you guys were talking. You guys are young as shit. You have all the experience in the world, all the accomplishments. the thing you had to figure out

was how to be fucking together and happy. For sure. It's like the hardest part that you don't ever think about you know, it's like you can do all these things

and have accomplishments and it's like, cool, do you guys like each other and fucking number ones? Actually, let's let's explore what you did together. I'm sure you already know it. I know you do.

Yeah, let me check these stats. Correct them if they're wrong. Yeah, I got you. three-time Grammy Award-winning country duo first ever, I think, to win it consecutively. Did you win it consecutively? Yeah, we did. We did three in a row.

Three years in a row. But here's me. Here's me, right? We win three consecutive Grammys, which is so dope. And in that moment, we were up. The only artist who's won four consecutively in a category was Lenny Kravitz and his category, maybe one of the rock categories. Yeah, yeah.

Lenny's, we're coming for you, Lenny. And then we didn't win that fourth one. I was like, well, the other three. didn't matter to all. Get rid of those three. But no, I mean, looking back on a now, it's crazy.

Three-time Grammy Award winning country duo. Multiple nominations. Multiple. 14 billion global streams, probably more by now, since this was printed. 10 million monthly listeners on Spotify. Just Spotify.

Not Apple. Not YouTube. Not Pandora. Not all the other. Just Spotify alone. So let's do the math. Put all the platforms together. You got 10 million on Spotify.

That's probably something like, 40, 50 million people a month across all platforms. If I do the math, over 12 years together, anyone was married for 12 years. You'd be like, good job, guys. Congratulations. Oh, my God. How'd you do it?

That's a fact right there. Okay? So I'm just putting some perspective on what you guys should let out the breath. You did it. Honestly, like that I'm not done. Okay. Shit. 11 number one singles at country radio.

11. Eight American Music Awards for favorite country duo. Four ACM awards. What's that American country music? Academy Country Music Awards. Academy music awards. Sorry guys, I'm not that country.

There's too many country awards. Four of them. Two CMAs, all for duo of the year. So these are consecutively people saying, you're a good duo. You've got two, four, six,

14, plus the Grammys, 17 major awards for being a duo. If the universe was telling you, should we be together? Yeah, yeah.

Got 17 awards and then how many times you're nominated probably twice as much. So I'm just saying, plus three Billboard. So that's actually 20 a Billboard music awards.

So for country duo. So that's 20 major awards for being a country duo. And 139 worldwide. I had multiple platinum, platinum, and gold certification. So the globe has agreed. I'm going to stop there. There's more.

But I'm just saying, if I was your therapist, I would say, you kind of are, to be honest. Yes, is really nice. I'm not hanging out. I love it. It's a hobby. It's a hobby. Can we come back?

I think it can get dicey if you don't step out, which sounds like what you guys did, right? because coming together and having a tough conversation saying, I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. I don't want to break up. I just want to be with you. If we had to do that with our wife, we'd do it. Absolutely.

I was an asshole. I'm sorry. Or I was short-sighted, or I was this or I was that. And at first we could start with, yeah, but you always do this, but you always do this, but you always do that. And that's exactly how, and I think that's why this conversation works. And I think that's why we're in such a healthy place now. That night, that was the first thing.

that happened. I was like, you know what, man, I'm, I asked you to come over my house, like, and I'm going to start this conversation because it was like, you're probably driving over. Like, is this shit going to be awkward? Like, what are we going to talk about? Are we going to fight? Are we going to watch Sto's game last? What's up? You know, but I was like, hey, man, I just want to take accountability and responsibility for like what I've done to you, what I think I've done to you, what I think is wrong. And I was just like, I apologize for this. I apologize for being this guy. I apologize for getting carried away too much on these certain things. I only did it because I cared, but I cared too. But I cared too.

too much to a fault where I hurt you and I hurt other people in my life. And that opened, open the floodgates for this open conversation. And I think it just changed the trajectory of our career. You did the same thing. You apologized for your shit. I apologize for mine. And it was just such a healthy conversation. It wasn't accusatory. It wasn't like, you did this, you know? And we started out by doing that. And I just think that was just such a great, I don't know, roadmap for how we're treating the rest of our career. How, you know, since that conversation. It's like if something's bothering you or you feel like you fuck something up,

say it. Open communication, regular communication, rather than letting these things build up and boil and that it just explodes. That makes me so happy. It was amazing, man. It was,

I don't know. I feel so good about it. And I'm sitting here after you read those accomplishments thinking, like, those things mean a lot. It's dope that we have Grammys and stuff. Fucking awesome, bro.

Can't take it away. Once you win two Grammys, you're multi-Grammy winner. Don't get better than that. We don't think they can take it away. We haven't read too much into that. Can they take it away? Maybe, maybe.

Maybe. But what I learned in therapy, right? Anyone listening, this is a really easy tool. One is to have uncomfortable conversations with people. And two, if we're communicating, it's two people trying to understand what it feels like to be the other person, right? Even if we don't agree. I'm just trying to understand when you say something, I'm trying to understand. to understand it. I'm trying for it to go in my head and me to go, ah, okay, I understand. So if I say,

I think or I feel like you're going to hear me, and it's not absolute, if I say, I feel like you always lie to me, you're like, well, I don't. I know, you think you don't, but I feel like you do. You're going to hear me and go like, maybe I did lie to you that one time, but I was afraid. I didn't want to, you were upset at me and I didn't want to, and then I go, well, I was upset to you because this and then you can go back down that road of just accusing, but if you get, if you always back off and remember like, this is my, this is how I feel, right? And maybe you did lie to me. Sure. But you have room to say, yeah, but I was a fucking afraid of you because you were mad at me. So I lied to you because I didn't want to hurt your feelings or I didn't want to

blah, blah, blah. And then there's room because that's, that's, we don't, the absolute and the black and white and the anything is, you know, it's bullshit. It's like, no, we lie to each other sometimes. People lie to each other. Like, it's, it's a human condition. But if we can explain why, right, doesn't mean it's okay. Doesn't mean it didn't hurt your feelings. Doesn't mean, but like, can we get to a place where we repair things with people we love? And I learned this in marriage, just because, like, I'm trying to be a partner with someone now, like, we've been together 20 years. The only way we got. That's amazing, right?

That's 10 years. But 10 years when you get there, you're like, holy shit, we better start working on some stuff. Right? That's when you kind of turn a corner where you're like, I like this, but also like we got to work. And then you start working on

stuff and you learn how to like communicate and some shit hurts her feelings that doesn't matter to me as much. And you start to understand. And I bring up that because you guys are a duo. 20 big awards. says you're a duo.

Whether you want to be a duo or not, to all of us, you're a duo. And you could leave it and break it up, but we're all, it's been, this is your legacy. You did it.

I'm always going to see it. I can't unsee it. You can reject it. No, but, you know, we could all, we all struggle with our own value.

We're like, but I'm more, you don't see how special I am. And I'm like, but we have that. Like, I'm in a band. You can't unsee it.

Yeah. I mean, good Charlotte. You're always going to know me like that. You might know me for some other stuff as we go, but like, no, you can't unsee that. And so I have to, one, accept and love that thing that I did and that accomplishment, even if I struggle sometimes to try and prove that I'm more than how you see me. That's okay.

Yeah. But also, like, both things can exist. And then, like, that's where, you know, I think after the 10 years of marriage and you turn that corner and you're like, okay. we got to start working. That's kind of the timeline you guys were on when you had that conversation for sure a little bit. Yeah. You know, and then you go, okay, how do we, how do we, how do we go to get to 20 years of marriage? Bands don't and duos and groups. Don't get taught that. Not at all, and I think that it would be, and that's why I think it's important that we're doing this.

Yeah. Because there's going to be an artist out there who's, you know, who sees somebody who's had success is watching you, watching us, watching friends of ours and being like, hey, those guys got it all together. And sometimes we do, most of the time we don't. But it's awesome to hear people be vulnerable and to talk about this kind of stuff. Because again, there isn't, there isn't a school of things. Like your school is like going and screwing it up for the first 10 years. That's right. Which sometimes is what you need. But I think, you know, when I look at all this, I think that, you know, our world is in this place right now where there's not a lot of empathy for the other side of the opinion, whatever that

might be. That's right. And I think, you know, and there's so many things that Dan and I believe different things on whatever it might be, different opinions on whatever it is. If you approach that with empathy and say, first of, I respect you with my whole heart and love that you have that opinion for your, like you came to that and I respect that, even if I'm over here of whatever this is, I don't like this kind of music or I like this, whatever it is, if you approach it with empathy and say, first off, I love this person. So how do I understand this person better? because no matter what, you know, thing that they decide to choose

differently than you, if you can kind of agree that you both respect those opinions, we can meet somewhere in the middle and you can still love that person and, you know, you're going to land where you're going to land. But I think that we don't even want to have those conversations anymore a lot of times in our world and not just in music, but like we just,

when you stop communicating, if you just say, okay, actually, I disagree with you and I also hate you and I don't even want to hear what you have to say, then we just lose humanity. And it's like, all right, as long as we can have empathy and say, you know what, first of all, you're human and I love you and you have value. So I'm going to listen to what you have to say, even if I don't agree with it, let's meet somewhere in the middle. And with music, with a band,

like you have to do those things where it's like the beauty of what we bring to the table, whatever that is, we're bringing it here to make something that is new and beautiful, a lot like a marriage. And like having kids now, I'm just like, that was literally like I have four kids that are a of like way better versions of what, you know, we, I brought to the table. It was mainly like, she brought 99% of the goodness and I brought like, maybe one. That's how I feel. But it's like, you know, but it's an amazing thing to watch. I agree with that.

Yeah, 100% of us. Mine is like, you know. It's an amazing thing to watch, dude. Like, how did you guys, how have you guys been together 20 years? I'm like, it's her. She brought the 99%. He's a smart one. That's it.

But it's beautiful, though. I watched that. And I think that when you do that, the product of what comes out of that is a, you know, maybe a better version of what each of you brought to the table. And that's just, that's what I think a duo can do the best if we can do it. That dynamic might be the hardest. But I think sometimes the product of what a duo can be maybe shows the, I don't, I think it's, the bands, obviously like when there's four or five people in the band, there's been amazing bands that have done incredible things, obviously. But it is amazing to watch like what duos

have done like in history of like some of my favorite bands of all time are duos. And it's because when it's done right, it's really special. It's not just one person. It's a, it's a dream, it's a legacy that has been like created by two people. Yeah. And it's like the hardest thing ever to keep and maintain without just going off the rails and be like, I don't think I like this person anymore, you know, and just like, I don't know, there's no tiebreaker. The duo, it signifies the idea that we could have a best friend. Yeah, 100%. You know, 100%. I think even in bands, I mean, the lead singer in the guitar player, it's like Joe Perry and Stephen Tyler or Mick Jagger, Keith Richards. It's like, people love that. You know what I'm. They latch on

of that. And I just, man, I like looking back, not to get too emo here, but like on the we're on a busy stretch right now, getting this album up and running. We saw it on the calendar. We're like, shit, man, that's going to be a grind or whatever. It's real work. Yeah, but it's, it's, it's amazing, obviously, but it's, we're flying all over the place, like across the country, back and forth, back and forth, not seeing our families. I think after hearing you read those stats, it's awesome, proud of it, grateful. But I think looking back on like this week, this moment that we're in right now, the fact that I'm happy doing this and I'm okay, it's a weird way to put it. I'm okay. I talked about this with my therapist. Like, what is your

goal? It's like, I want to be okay to do it. I want to go out there, not get too high, not get too phased by the results if they don't go my way. The fact that I get to be traveling around my best friend, we're walking in here today. We're like, dude, you want to watch a basketball game tonight? You know what I mean? And like the fact that we're in such a healthy place where we can do that is so sick. I don't know. It's just such a rare thing. You know what I mean? I I, we're in this position right now. We've been fortunate enough. We've been blessed.

But it's not about like the wins or the losses. It's like that we can chill. It's those small moments like that and that we've been hanging the last few days. And it's like we don't have to. We can go do what we got to do. Then disappear to our hotel rooms. But we're out watching games. We're having a drink.

We're getting a meal. And I'm so grateful for that, man. Because that's the sustainable was a good word that you used. And like that to me is what makes it sustainable. I think comparing that to a marriage, maybe in a marriage, the Grammys are like the big the trips to Greece or the honeymoon or whatever but what really makes a long marriage sustainable and special is that little moments when you get a night off trips dude's road trips yeah you get a little moments yeah you get a night off and you watch a movie together

and your PJs and you order some pizza and like that's it you know that can last a lifetime that's my fucking bread and butter the jam dude hell yeah that's it yep i don't give that up absolutely i'm doing coffee every morning with my wife yeah the mornings we don't we both are not happy about it. We fucking, at this stage, we found this whole new, our kids are older now. So we have like more time back because teenagers will sleep till fucking 12. Looking forward to that. My oldest is nine.

He's in it. He's in the week. And they're doing their own thing. And you got to also like fucking let them. So if you're not finding shit you like to do and still being together because then you got to be there because they do call. They do need you. They do. It's different. So you have to, you have to stay

home. You have to be, when you reach the part of your life where your kids are teenagers, you have these adults in your house. And they are fucking making decisions and you got to kind of let them. But I'm just saying like that you grow up and you realize like

what life is about. And then you come back to this thing with that. And I think you enjoy it in a whole different way. Not that we all didn't enjoy the ride because it was wild and it was a roller coaster and it was cool. And in your 20s is that's the time for that. Yeah. For the chaos. It's not chaotic anymore though. It's like this nice pleasant bunch of guys who were all married with kids hanging out drinking coffee or going to a dinner or watching a game or playing golf or I don't know, whatever we all want to do, all the crew,

everybody. It's a chill. It's a good vibe. And we feel like anyone that doesn't have that kind of is insane. Yep. Yeah, it seems crazy looking back on it now like man, how do we how do we make it? We were insane.

It was crazy. Because it's real connection like what you said. I think that that's what we're all doing out here like to sustain this. Yeah. There has to be real human connection

with, you know, also like your fans too. It's important to be out there with them and see that, I think when we're writing songs because it is, the internet is, that's a whole other like thing

that we could spend six hours on. Different category. In my opinion. Different, And you can internet good and do well. Sure. And that's fine. Like, I'm not against that.

But like, that's different. It is. You meeting your fan in a coffee shop or at a meet and grade or wherever and they see a real person. They're like, oh my God, like, I feel like I know you. I think it might actually be different people. I don't know. I don't know if anyone's real on the internet.

We can't get a like on Instagram to save our life, but we go through the airport and fly southwest and we're the Beatles. It feels good. Yeah. But it feels good. And I think it matters. I mean, it matters to us. It's like, you know, some validation.

I think deep down as much as we say, we don't care. Validation feels good that we're doing, we're on the right track. But I think to those people, like, that's a cool story for them. You know, it might be a moment that they needed in their life, what they're going through. And being out there, I think that's part of our purpose while we're doing this. It's like hearing those stories. But if you're only on the internet, you're kind of, this is me. I just see there could be 900 good comments.

There's one guy who's like, you guys, fuck it. I'm like, do we, we might suck. Yeah, we suck. If he just met us, he'd like us. But you go out on the road or whatever, you're out in the wild. I did it. Yeah. You go on the wild.

It's just, I don't know, man. It feels good. Just remember that guy is the kid who runs up and punches Mickey Mouse in the stomach. That's right. That's right. Yeah. He doesn't know what to do with himself. 100%.

You know what I mean? 100%. You're so good at this, by the way, dude. I am. You're so fucking good. Seriously. No, no. I can tell because I listen to the pod.

Like, I genuinely am a fan. It's just so good. You know, whether it's an artist or Elliot's. interview like just oh yeah yeah yeah it was great so good but you're just it's you're natural and you have so much perspective you saying like your perspective and feeling on those shows that you guys are coming back to do which is awesome as a fan like I'm glad you're out doing it thank you but I think we're somewhere in that process you know I think we're getting closer to that place I think we're close but there's still the you know we're on the come out we haven't quite proven ourselves as much as we

want to still scared of catching blue dot fever you know what I mean yeah but I think that's such a shitty thing that there's a culture from like just trolls on the internet that have made artists like us insecure about not selling your tickets back in the day before the internet who cares if you went out and did a show and there was a couple empty seats because the fans don't care we're looking out there but the fan who was at that show you know I go I saw third eye blind the other day I mean I don't know how many kids are there it could be 2000 or 25000 but I was like damn dude they're playing how's it going to be and I'm going crazy yeah you know and I think that's the perspective to have but yeah we're in that we're in that we're in

that journey right now. You're in the process. Yeah. And I just go with it. For sure. We're getting there. Yeah. And being in this great personal place is like it makes it all so much easier. I'm thinking about we're, you know, put a fall tour on sale. I think it's going to do great. I hope it does great. But I think more so, I'm like, damn, dude, it's sick touring during football season. I can't wait to get the boys on the bus. Yeah. What's our setup going to be to watch football, you know? Like little things like that, I think make me more okay with doing this. Make me more happy to do this, you know? Yeah, my thought is we get caught in these little moments where we're looking too close. We're staring at the wall saying the same thing over again.

And like, there's that guy over there talking to the wall. Instead of zooming out and being like, whoa, what the fuck? Yeah. And I think you guys have. I think that's how you got here. So I'm not saying you're doing that. But like you got to make sure that those old loops you may have gotten into, whatever caused the pain. It has nothing to do with this.

It's all inner stuff. And then when you start like the therapy is the best thing you do because you're just dissecting yourself every week. And I love it because I just enjoy that. But if I said you should go to the gym every week, you'd be like, yeah, I probably should. We all agree on that. It's proven. That's all therapy is. It's a gym for our emotional.

self and our brain and our thinking self and our you know our neurotic self and all the things that but we also got to remember that's what what made us us like we're neurotic weird people that think we can write songs right you know what I mean yeah and so we're guys weird guys we got to accept that yeah that were these idiosyncratic weirdos who are particular about certain things keep all the good and then work on the stuff that gets in the way of the good You know, and I think that, like, that's what the work part is actually supposed to be. And then, like, anyone that's like, fuck that, I'm like, I don't know, man, you don't have to grow. Like, I'm not telling everyone they have to grow.

It's fine. Yeah. I'm over here just trying to play the game of life and have fun because it's fun to play games. And that's what we're doing with this thing is, like, we're playing a really fun game where we make stuff and then we, like, give it to people. And did you like it? Yeah. You know what I mean? You're playing it well, dude.

It's inspiring to here you talk, man. I love it. Playing it well. Seriously, you're so good at this. It's just, I feel like I should pay you for this therapy session, man. I'm like, shit, man, he's nailing it. I don't hold back. The second half thing, I'm like, damn, spot on.

It's inspiring, though. And hearing you talk also makes me excited because I do think that there's, I mean, at this point now, we've been doing it 10 years and it's crazy to experience, like, what you've gotten to experience with so many people of, like, these people who are just right behind you where it's like even if they're five years behind you i think about that gap it's like there's a lot that you learn in these little you know tidbits of time of like we're both coming up up on 10 years of marriage marriages with our wives and like thank you man but like that's you can look back and being able to talk with people who are about to enter the season that you're

into like i think that's just such an inspiring thing to for one thing here people like you talk and that notion of like man that's really cool that we are going to get to do that for you know my kids or for like this next generation of artists coming up like that's a very fulfilling thing to be able to talk about and explore and just like and just try together and I love that like whenever I get a new you know tidbit of wisdom like you've dropped out all day to day that I've been gathering up like like nuggets of gold like that's an amazing thing to be able to take and to and to share with somebody else like that's just a it's inspiring dude that's what we're supposed to do yeah yeah with artists like as artists we're supposed to share with

with each other. Like putting fruit on, I heard somebody talk about it the way, uh, this guy John Maxwell talks about who wants to put fruit on other people's tree. Yeah. Or help them, you know,

give them some of those apple seeds and let them grow of their own apple tree. Absolutely. You know what I mean? Like you guys have an orchard now. Yeah. And every now and then you get the opportunity to like teach someone how to do that, how to grow their own orchard, teach Amanda fish.

It's that whole idea. It's like share some information, some wisdom of the how, you know? And that makes the world a better place. And if the world is a better place, we are all richer. We are all healthier. And if you help an artist become more successful, it makes your world better.

Yeah. And it's not like it's some limited pie that we're like fighting over. That's not how it works. Art is endless. Yeah. It's like I always say it's like Aladdin's cave to what we do. Yeah. Every day is if you want to find a treasure, you will find.

it. Yeah. You really create a safe space here though. And I like again as a fan of your podcast, people open up to you in a good way and you get real content. You know, sometimes you do it most of the time we do a radio interview or whatever. And it's like we're so excited about the new album. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like so surfaced and so quick. But I feel like we've shared pretty vulnerable stuff with you today, you know. Yeah. Well, you think that matters. Yeah. The only way you can do it is if you can be yourself. Yeah. You can't be yourself if someone's not being their self. Yeah.

And a lot of times you go on these interview type shows and they're not really being themselves. They're sticking to the script. Yeah. They have their questions and they really want to get that one. Tell us why you broke up. And you're like, oh, it didn't break up. But if you really would.

So, but you have to protect yourself. So it's like weird in that way. But also your new record, people are going to check it out when they listen to this because they're interested in the story you just told. And now they want to know what that sounds like. Yeah. It's human nature. I'd rather them be interested for real because then it gives, if they get to know you, they're interested. And then they go with a different light on it than if it's a commercial and it's like, we just need to convert 20% of the people that hear this

commercial. Yeah. Instead of an entire audience listening to a show who truly, this is human nature. We listen and we watch people and we decide if we like them. Yeah. I think it's a reason why. I'm like, Why would I go listen to that music? Well, I heard what they said and they either maybe say, those guys are really weird and idiots. Or they say, like, I like those guys. Well, if you're lying, they know it. So that's the thing is like, we have a, we're animals.

So like, when we talk to each other and if we hear each other, we just know if we're lying. Yeah. It doesn't matter how well the interview, if the interview went or the commercial went or the performance went for fucking lying, we can feel it. And then it becomes like, like people don't realize that they're sniffing that, that they're just sniffing someone who's not. letting their guard down and they're not just saying like this is how I feel actually. So you guys almost broke up. I'd say that's pretty fair assessment. Yeah. You had a moment you were at

contemplate. Do we still want to do this? Yeah. And then you looked at each other and said, yeah, man, come on. And here we are. New record. Yeah, new record. New tour. New record called Young, man. I feel every, every artist says this every album they put out. It's our best album yet. It's our most personal. I really think it's good, man. I'm really proud of every song on the record. And every song is a detailed snapshot of who we are as men in our lives right now, you know, in our mid to late 30s. It's like, we wrote a bunch of songs before we landed on this young album. I just kind of had this midlife crisis thing about AI and technology and social media. I'm in my head a lot, as you can probably learn from this conversation.

But I just was like, man, is it coming for us? You know, is it going to take our jobs? Like, you know, you've got apps that can write a viral crazy song in like two seconds. and I'm like, man, I spent six months editing these drums or trying to tweak this second verse lyric and like, here comes this AI. But I think it made us reassess the whole thing because I think some of these tracks that we were chasing before we landed on the young album felt like there was no depth to them. They felt like AI could create them in a second. You know, the beats sounded like computer generated. The lyrics were fluffy. And we just were like, you know what, man, I don't know where we're going to go with this, but let's try to just tell some real stuff.

stories. Let's get in, share what's actually on our hearts right now. Even if it's like not the sexiest thing, you know, it's like there's no songs about picking up a girl in a bar, which we've done plenty of those. We love them and we're not saying we won't do those again, you know. Sometimes you got to step into that storyteller role. We were just like, let's just tell the narrative of what we're going through as people right now. Because I think our fans want to hear that from us. You know, they love us and they grew up with us. They started listening to us in high school or whatever. They're growing. They're aging with us. And we just covered a lot of things. themes of what we're going through in our lives right now, like grappling with the concept of

mortality, the passing of time, you know, losing the thought of losing a loved one. Like, that's the sad songs on the album. Like, what if my spouse passes away before me? Not like, oh, this chick bounced on the bar. She was so hot, you know? Yeah. It's just like heavy concepts. And I don't know. I mean, I hope the songs are hits. The first single off the record is called Say So and grateful that it's doing well. But we wrote it about our friend who took his life a little over a year ago who meant a lot to us, you know, in our career, obviously, he was our publisher and introduced us to our record label, but he was also a good friend and was there for us. And on the outside, he was one of those guys that we thought everything was right.

You know, he's always happy, like, always checking in. But it was just such interesting perspective. I'm sure you've had situations like that with people you love too. And we all have, man. It's a real thing. And it just shook our world in Nashville. And we, you know, we were just in the room. It was on our hearts that day.

We were talking about it. And that's a heavy song for what we do. You know, I think we even referenced like hold on by Good Charlotte. You know, it's a similar kind of thing that, you know, it didn't feel necessarily like a Dan and Shea thing. We write a lot of wedding songs, you know? And I got home that day and played the demo that song from my wife. And she was like, man, that's beautiful. You guys would write that for Ben on his birthday.

And we had no idea that it was his birthday that day. It would have been his 50th. In that moment, I was like, man, this is where we're supposed to be going right now. That's more than coincidence that that happened. And that kind of became one of the guiding lights for the. album and where we took the rest of it. And I don't know, man, we're just, we're making music right now. We're in the season of life. We're just like unapologetically, Dan and Shea. And I think, I think that's when we're at our best. And I do think that gives us the best chance for success

rather than being an imposter. But at the end of the day, man, like, we're proud of these songs. And whether it pops off on streaming or radio or whatever, we can hang our hats on this album, front to back and be like, I love every single song on that album. I'm proud to share that with my friends. I'm proud to send unfinished mixes to you to listen to. You know what I'm saying? It's just like it feels like us and someday when we look back on it, I tried my best to use all real instruments on this record. It feels like very, I think you described it like this. It's human. You know, there's some imperfections on it. We make shiny polished music, but in general, it was made by real people, written by real people about real things and performed by, you know, in the past where I would have put

like a crazy hip-hop drum loop. And I love that in the verse. It's like, let's try to do this. with a real drummer. And I just think, I don't know, it was refreshing for us. And I think that was maybe a reaction to AI and where I see AI going. It's like, I think people can feel that authenticity in music. You know, it's like I got like super down the rabbit hole of the Bruce Springsteen Nebraska album. Like that's him record on a four track task cam. And like I feel that room that Bruce Springsteen made that album in. And I don't know. I think took a little bit more of a minimalist approach on this. It was like instead of going crazy with the layering and the programming, it's like, no, let it sound like what we sound like in a room singing that song.

I'm so proud of it, honestly. That's awesome. That's how you should feel. Yeah, it's hard. I mean, you know it is. It's like at this point in our career, what do we write about? What do we say? And it's like, shit, let's write about what we're going through right now.

Because at the end of the day, it's like, even if it doesn't pop off, it's like, it's given our fans and look into our lives. And I think that's, I don't know, it's all we can do at this point. Yeah, I think the exploration musically is continue to excavate and dig. Yeah. and find out what it means to be you. Yeah. And then whatever comes out,

like you wrote that song and then there was a feeling and you start leaning into that. And then another song and then another song. And you can try to explain it, but more I think it's like continue to go deeper into the question of what does it mean to be me? And then what does it mean to be us? And then if I'm no longer in competition

with the results and I'm in competition with a feeling I want to feel that whatever that was. I'm going to keep digging feel that again. And then you have a record. It was born. And then you won't know what this record means until way

later. And then you can decide how the record did. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because I think you guys have already accomplished too much to question if you need to ever accomplish anything ever again. You will accomplish plenty and you'll

you're very young so you'll see like this era that you're of your life that you're in now in this age from my experience I'm 47 so my 30s my mid 30s was when I actually started actually producing real results in life across the board

and it was different because some of them I couldn't measure then and now I can look back and measure them and it's fucking insane so you're a wise man dropping just wisdom nuggets dude crazy This has been so fun, dude.

I'm just having them. Congrats, guys. Do we have to leave? I don't want to leave, man. We're going golfing after this. Let's go around, dude. No, appreciate you guys coming. Dude, thank you, man.

Congrats on the record. Thank you so much, man. Good luck with the tour and the record. And hopefully we get to hang out sometime. Yeah, I get your number. We're going golfing. All right, guys. Thank you again, man.

And thank you for doing this, not just with us. But like, thank you for kind of answering that call to. You're a real one, man. To do that. It exists because of you guys. Everybody that comes on this show makes it. So I just, I love it and I feel super grateful. I love it.

Thanks, guys. Thank you, brother. Cool. Appreciate you, man. Thank you for listening to this episode of Artist Friendly. You can also watch the episodes on Spotify. Spotify premium users get no commercial breaks on my show. Make sure to follow, like, and comment because I always read the comments.