Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - DE'WAYNE

Episode Date: January 20, 2023

Episode 1 is a raw and sincere conversation where Joel and De’Wayne unpeel layer after layer of each other’s lives, in the pursuit of learning how the artist, and human, was created — from the things that drive them creatively, how tough childhood dynamics shaped them, growing up without money, the hip hop entrepreneurs that lit their paths, and finding their own swagger. How at 24, De’Wayne knew he wasn’t ready but he kept showing up as a kind soul, working hard, being true to his creativity, and today, at 27, as he releases his second album My Favorite Blue Jeans he’s riding the wave as the world is finally ready for De’Wayne to unleash. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠Spotify.⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, it's Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On today's episode, I'm going to be talking to my good friend, Duane. What's up, Dwayne? Man, life is nice. I'm happy to see your face. Happy to see you, too. I am chilling, bro. I just got off of watching Inkmaster, as I was telling you off of this.

So my vibes are very good. Did you watch the latest episode? I did watch the latest episode. The Inkmasters? Inkmaster, a personal favor. Mine is Giann. Yeah, he's good. Just of the later, the past few seasons.

And yeah, man, so had a good breakfast. And I was coming to see you. It's always a pleasure to see you and talk. So I feel real good. You're one of my favorite people. Thank you. Did you watch the, is it, was it the episode where the Inkmasters decided to stay? I was so heated about that.

Because it doesn't, because you don't think it seems fair? 100%. I was so mad. We were watching, I was just like, why, no, this is so unfair. But then seeing what happened this episode, I was kind of happy. because I'm like, because I just saw them so at the top and then, you know, everybody's not perfect. So it was cool.

See the balance. But you also realize like they have to be that good to win. Totally. So they have to beat these guys. Right. And so I understand too, because it was a little shocking when it happened because they didn't tell us either. Gotcha.

But we were a surprise too. Wow. Love that. So, but they are that good. The artists that are competing, like, you know, the Gions. Totally. I mean, Angel. Dude, I'm so sorry to nerd out.

Dude, Angel's great. Oh, she's amazing. She's really fire. I mean, even creepy Jason. She got a little slow start. Gotcha. Yeah, I agree. Because we know she's talented us, like, as hell.

Super talented. Had a little start. Who else do I? I would say those are my favorite three. I like creepy Jason. He's actually really good. Yeah, he's nice with it. He's nice with it.

Man, I don't want to make this about Inkmaster, but I'm such a fan. I'm just like. But Gian is in my personal faith. Yeah. I really like what he does. I just think he's really awesome and talented. And he's kind of showboaty in this season. Like in his other ones, he was a bit more quiet.

But in this one, he's like, I'm a badass, so he knows. But it's calm. I actually heard that he trained for like a year for this. As far as in his work. He would time himself. And he would like, like, I heard he was like super focused. You can tell. You can tell, because some people I feel like get really flustered

and like the hours that you guys give him, but he's, I don't know, man. I just think he's really ill and talented as fuck. He is really good. Yeah, man, he's nice. He's nice, bro. How are you doing, though? How's your day been and how's your week been so far, brother?

I'm doing great. Been all right? Hell yes. Great, man. I love that. I'm always good. Same, honestly. Sometimes not, but like, kind of same.

I'm like, I'm a right. What is, like, what, like, I always wonder when people are, okay like what is it what what weren't you okay yeah i feel what are you worried about yeah i mean i would say when i wasn't okay as much it would be just like worried about what i'm gonna eat yep worried about like when life was hard when life was like really hard like like eight nine months ago it was like really like i was just like oh like food rent um music wise yep when am i gonna get my shot when am i I'm not going to get my shot. When is my shit going to start moving? Totally. Totally. And now,

life is a bit less hard because those two things that I mentioned are taken care of. And then with music, I feel like I can really see that, not the end of the tunnel, but like where it's going. See the light. Like, I can, and like, it kind of took seven years of me just like kind of tricking myself, like, I can see the light. Like, I know what I'm doing. I know where I'm going. But like the past like few months where I can like see a bright light shine and it's really, it makes me feel really inspired and really happy and really thankful and, you know, knowing I'm like, what I put out in the music is starting to come to and that feels really great. So I'm smiling a lot.

What? So only the last nine months? Like this year's been really good. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good year. It's a good year. You're having a good year, man.

Like the headline tour, the festivals, like the main stage stuff, been doing a little acting, which is really cool. cool, but I'm more just like balancing myself and like know who I want to be. Like I'm honest. You know, I hurt sometimes. You know, I love making music. I love my family and, you know, I love being able to kind of not take care of things, but just just stand in my own light. You know, it feels better because I didn't really know where that light was time ago. And when you don't, I hate to like keep harping on that, but like just being kind of like, you know, I come from like, you know, I just have to work very hard. You know.

Okay, so I know that. Yeah. But I'll say this, my experience of you. Yeah. I never thought you were worried. Well, thank you. Well, because I believe in myself. But that's interesting because, like, we all have our own emotional experience of life, and we're in it alone.

100%. Period. Yeah. And then we have, obviously, experiences with relationships, things like that, where we're not alone, but we are having our own experience. Yes. And our experience might be different from the other person. Totally. Our version, our reality, I don't know if you believe in alternate realities.

I do. Lately, I do. Yeah. I believe in them. Yeah, I really, really do. Because every decision we're making along the road every day is shifting our realities. 100%. And it could be different if we chose something.

Yeah, fully. Yes. But. Oh, yes. But it's always interesting because I'm like, when I think of you, I always think of someone who always felt like you were. focused. Most definitely. But you didn't seem worried. Man, I got a good poker face. Yeah, it's really good. Um, well, it's because you guys though, you know what I'm saying? Like you like Nav, Mike, you know, like to be able to sleep on someone's couch for like seven

years and not have to worry about a thing, but make music. I know that I'm in a way I'm still very fortunate and lucky to have been, I got to develop for like 70 years, you know what I'm saying? So I knew I was going to do it. And I think the thing while I wasn't worried because I knew that I was going to figure it out and I knew that I was going to become better and I knew I wasn't if I didn't die like I was going to do it yeah you know now I just have to keep that energy away and stay on earth and stay you know progressing in my art the way I feel when I think about you is from when we met yeah how long ago did we meet I want to say 2015 2016 yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah because I had the little EP I had the little EP yeah

end of 2016 I'm gonna say yeah yeah I think sometimes everything is people try to put things into like ways that they can explain how things work right right so the seven years you spent you would say developing which is true it's growing yes don't you feel like that was necessary and like what if it did what if you didn't have that seven years what if you what if something happened earlier would you be ready to be you where you're at today where it feels like when i see you you feel like really complete thank you brother you don't feel like like someone who doesn't know who they are yeah yeah do you know what i mean yeah fully and like i you know that's a personal journey and it takes however long it takes but like when i think about the seven years

you had to like grow and then now you're you're putting out your art and people like it yeah but i actually don't think your art is i don't actually think your art is the most important thing about you you know what i mean got you yeah yeah yeah i actually think you're one of those those people that like you're like in the budapos for a long time and then when you do it you do it like a really good way where a lot of people just try before they're ready they shouldn't try they shouldn't be trying yeah totally they should be like in the budapos totally like meditating figuring out like who am i what do i think how do i feel yes because i think that you are going into like this chapter of your life where you can do anything you want like acting i think you're when i see you i see like a star

i see someone that i'm like i could see him on on like a on the screen yeah because thank you Some people have it. Some people don't. There's a thing that we connect to when we see someone on screen. And it's like what the actors have. Totally. You're like, damn, I fucking love him in every movie he does. 100%.

You're like one of those guys when I see you. Thank you. That like, I know it sounds crazy, but I'm such a fan of special. So I always would become a fan of a certain actor or a certain musician or a certain artist because it like connected with me. And I was just like a fan of that. it. I was like, I love watching him do anything.

Yeah, anything. You know. You're like one of those people. Like you could, you could be a model, which is also like a weird thing that not many people can do. Like be on a, do it well. Yeah. Like be iconic. I think that's coming.

I think so, dude. You're like iconic, man. You're like, from the day I met you to now, it's this. idea that like, God, this guy is fucking special, man. What the fuck is up with him, man? What the fuck is that guy? That's how you think about it. You know what I mean?

When you meet that guy, you're like, what the fuck is up with him? He's a fucking star. Yeah. What's he doing? Got you. You know? No, I mean, I feel that I want to go back to what you're saying about those seven years, too, because I think I needed all of those years.

I mean, if I would have did anything before 26, 25, I think I would have crumbled and killed myself damn near, you know, just because I wasn't smart enough. I wasn't strong enough in my music. I wasn't strong enough in my journey, like in my walk, you know, and coming to a place like this to really learn and to, you know, living at a place like the Black Mountain House with Masego and with Shack West. And, you know, the Chase Boy is like taking care of me. And me and Mitchell's having $2 to our name three years ago split in McDonald's.

You know what I'm saying? Crazy. We needed, I needed that more so because it's just kind of strengthened my soul and my walk. And it was already kind of not that I had a tough life. coming up, but it's like I already have to make a decision to come to LA at 19 and then struggle and then struggle more and more. And now when anything comes my way, I'm so joyful. You know what I'm saying? I'm like teary and really can process these things that I've like practiced in the shower. You know what I'm saying? And practice in my mirror. You know what I'm saying? Like I was like that kid just practicing interviews and practicing how to put on a great show and be an entertainer.

And I needed every bit of that to get to this place today to where now when things come, I'm I feel like, not that I deserve it, but that I've worked really hard for it. And I'm, I deserve it. Yeah. It's like I'm grateful because I feel like I'm an artist of the old time who had time to develop. Yep. It's like I didn't really get out and just do it, you know. And I remember sitting down with you and playing the EP and you was like, you don't have any hits yet, but this is cool.

This is good. Just keep doing your thing. And that's what I like praise you and binge for and Naveed for because there were so many beautiful things happening around us. And you guys, you know, made me believe in myself because you guys are like, you're good. Just keep going, keep going. And I feel like this year. You're a real one. Yeah, I like kind of crack the code in a way to where I'm really happy.

And I know my music is badass. You're a badass. Yeah, nobody's really, you know, I do my own thing and I love that. That's what makes you, that's why people like you. Yeah. That's why I said to someone the other day about you, I was like, watch. He's the new face of a genre of alternative. Rock music.

Most definitely. And I love that. Like I love, bro, remember two, three years ago we were walking in the office and labels was like, mm-mm, mm-mm, yeah. Not yet, not yet, black man. Labels, labels. And now it's like so cool, you know what I'm saying? It's like I can see in two months, like I hate to, you know, not to talk about money and

stuff like that, but it's like things are about to change. Things are changing, bro. You know what I'm saying? And that's a beautiful thing to see from where I come from. But, okay. So I have a lot of questions. There's a lot of things I wanted to go into with you because I've always wanted to know more about how you grew up. Yes.

But do you think that all of this, I mean, I'll tell you what I believe. So I believe that we create our own, like we design our life. I agree. And I really do. I think that everyone gets caught up on if they deserve things or not. just think everyone deserves everything me too i think that you should have everything you've ever wanted in life and that life should feel like you're in your own Disneyland and that you're creating your you're you're you're creating your your life that's how i live my life i don't care what anyone

else does i and i and i and i sometimes i operate in front of people so like i'm on the tv show or i'm doing this or but this isn't my dream it's not to be famous understand right yes sir I look at fame is a bad thing. I think it's something that everyone that does what they love has to manage. They have to manage that one thing that's good. But also they have to respect that other people that haven't experienced it want it. Yeah. And so you have to be gracious about that because, but you also have to encourage them to,

to find their higher, you know, to find their own, their own success. And if that, if the fame thing is a part of their success and they get it, it, then they're going to learn about it. And they're going to handle it how they handle it. And so I think that what you're experiencing is the beginning of the world you were creating the last seven years in your mind. Totally. You know what I mean?

You're so right. It's just the start of the seven years that I was like. It's all coming to fruition. You are so right. Maybe not exactly like you thought because that's nature. Nature doesn't tell you exactly how the tree is going to grow, but you know the branches are going to be there and you know the leaves are going to be there like so that's how i feel is like growth is organic and it just happens but we have to imagine that the if we plant the seed and we

water it the tree grows yeah like there is like a science part of it that is just natural growth but in order to actually be a part of to to experience the growth understand we have to imagine it and then we have to act on it every day like we go on the garden and we plant the things and we do the things right I and I'm so philosophical sometimes no it's calm or I love it but same so so the the era of duane that's happening now right which is not just your music so I'm talking about you as a person yeah the life that you're living that you're going and you're you're creating this life is the life that you imagined the last seven years but then before that Of course.

As a child. How old are you? I'm 27. 27. That's a great age. Thank you. Before you go deeper, I want to say I felt so weird about that. And then as I turned 27, I was like, oh, like when I get 33, I don't know.

Like I just feel fucking like beautiful. I feel balanced. I feel love. I feel sadness. I feel like I can process things better. So I feel like I'm more honest. and definitely a better musician, which I love. So I just like, yeah, I think 27 is a great age as well.

I really do. To good age. Yeah, man. So. So, when's your birthday? What's your sign? June 27th. I'm a cancer.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm a sad boy. I don't know anything about that sign. I know a lot about Virgos because I got old Virgoes in my life. Okay. We're just sad and we can create. Okay, cool. Yeah.

Yeah, it's very like, I'm like 50-50. My sadness helps my creations, and my creations don't help my sadness that much, but, you know, we're working together. Okay, so you grew up in Houston. Yes, sir, I did. Can you tell me, like, what, like, what, what was your childhood like? Mom, beautiful Southern Bell, Christian, whip my ass, anytime I got out of line, so I immediately feared her. my dad was um you know i love him so much he's grown like a flower so if he hears this he knows men have we all have to you know i'm saying i had a very complicated relationship with my dad i know we

have a similar situation like i know you me and josh just talked about that but my dad you know was just on the block and like to fight and like to make love to random women and um and um like to smoke a lot and he was just i just had that dichotomy that duality like immediately coming out the gate of my mom being this and my dad being that. So that's the start. We could do podcast sessions on each relationship. 100%. We could spend.

Like. I would too, by the way, because this is the stuff I like care about. Same. But I actually think that your dad probably. Yes. Just my. No, talk to me. My, what I think probably.

Yeah. That generation. Mm-hmm. No tools. No tools. to process and to grow. And so they had to reach to other things to kind of temper their, the anxiety and the craziness

of the experience of the pain of life. If we don't have places to take that and work with it, work through it. Fully. Then we medicate it in all the ways we medicate it. We act out in fighting. Yes. We try to medicate it with a task

with other people. Yes. So, you know, the biology of what we are, you know, in our attachments and all that, I think that that's why I came to understand my dad in a different way later in his life because I understood what he was going through. Yes. And what he was, the pressure he was under just but through life and then having family and kids.

Like a big family. Yeah. Yeah. Four kids and a wife. Right. And then he left. And by the way, he didn't have a real, you know, he didn't have an education. he didn't have maybe he was limited in what he thought he could do.

Understand. He didn't, the possibilities weren't, you know, a thing. Understand. And I think personal growth wasn't like a thing. No, it wasn't a goal for them. Yeah. Yeah. And now we live in this time where I think men are, it's way more open to grow.

100%. We're all, it's encouraged actually. It really, I mean, he, I have to commend him. Because I also, Spotify, which is also fucking freaky, you know, they flew me out to Houston because they're going to put a billboard up there for me when the album drops. And I got to spend time my family. Me and my dad, we've never hung out solo. Amazing.

We've never hung out. I mean, not amazing, but that you get to. But that I got this time. You know what I'm saying? No, it's all good. I know how that feels, though. Yeah. And I was like, yo, dad was like, I just got here.

I got the whole night. I got a hotel. Come hang with me. And we talked. We went and got food. We got fucked up and he had never had Persecco. We had the greatest time. And he always does this on the phone, but he like apologizes for the past.

That's his thing in the past two years. He's just like, I'm sorry I wasn't. But like, we finally got the talk and I was like, it actually really helped me, bro. I was like, yeah. He realized that he was not the best parent, but it really fueled me to want to do better. And as a kid, even when he would be off the good vibe, off the drugs or off whatever, he would tell me these. He would just sit me up and tell me how great I could be. Like since I was like, that was one, like on the summers and on the weekends, he would play me the most ratchet Houston music.

In like three hours out of day, he would roll up crazy. And he would just sit me down and be like, the Jackson's are this. And your uncle was this. And your granddaddy, you look just like him. He was this and that. And like, I used to rap. I don't do it. But I just do it.

Like, he was just like, base me down and be like, you can be this and you can be so great. And we were in Houston as now, I'm a 27 year old coming back to work with Spotify. and he's just like, he's just looking outside in the view and he's just like, you like did it, bro. I'm like, I'm working on it. But he's just like, I'm sorry. I'm like, don't apologize. I'm like, you gave me the inspiration.

Like, you were still my superhero as who you were. And now he's just grown. He has a great job. He's taking care of my sisters. Like, he takes cares of things. And there's no I'm saying. Like older people, especially older, like, I think black people don't really like, they get stuck in a way, especially if you're from Texas.

And the way that he's grown just to become a better man, like not to, you know, I try to talk to him about certain things like meditation and like taking like self-care and he's like just kind of freaky to him a little bit. But the fact that he's just grown and has become better and can take care of his bills and his rent, that's the thing of like the past two years for him and he's 47. So I'm proud of him for sitting me down as a kid. He's young and giving me the inspiration that while I'm here today, you know. I think that's amazing.

Me too. Me too. That's why I'm like, I'm not it. I'm glad that how he was and my mom and all my, I mean, my family is like the biggest inspiration to me i think it's interesting what you're able to do again i i always knew you were special whenever i talk to you i always it's always like a confirmation to me because of the way i think i i i believe in see life um not many people are able to look at something that the truth of life is that like we're all imperfect.

If we want to really open up and show everyone our shit. Yeah. Right. But then, and we're in this interesting time because we can all see more than we used to be able to see. For sure. So there's like, but then there's a lot of lies happening.

So when you look on social media, like there's a lot of lies. There's a lot of like things put together to look like the guy who runs up and gives the guy money on the street. Of course. The thing like, of it's kind of constructed to feel like it's like you're seeing something you're not supposed to see or that's that's a real moment yeah because we all want to

feel that of course but then when someone sees your real shit when someone's shit gets out there yeah like someone's like dms get out there they were being honest with someone or they were telling and everyone's like ah kill him yeah and you're like no dude just fucking just people are just imperfect they're just complicated yeah we're all complicated life is edgy yes people get drunk or they do this or they do that like everybody's going through their thing and like you feel to me like you're just being yourself and you're not trying to construct a perfect person for people to experience oh no not at all not at all that's why I love that's why I love like my show and I love the way that I interact with my friends and people that I love and my family like I just it's I don't know

it's just honest and sometimes it may come off as like I'm being too nice or like too much but I'm just like I don't I love I don't know this is how I feel you know and when you tell me about your dad yeah it feels like you just accept him oh I accept him and like I do you just see this other person who's having their own journey totally and like it it took me a long time to get there but then when I got there with my dad it was the most healing thing that I ever went through because I accepted him I was like you know what I'm actually like a lot like him I feel you. I'm like an evolved version of him.

Yeah. And a lot of the good stuff in me that I think makes me that's made me who I am as far as to my wife, to my kids in my life. And success is objective, right? Like whatever your version of success is, 100%. Mine is a family that seems like they're getting to grow. totally and they're happy

fuck yes and like I have a real relationship with my kids that's success to me like my kids and me are connected I understand and my wife and me are real we're connected we have a real relationship

I love that that we try to protect so so a lot of times the world wants to always see like what people's it's natural they want to see like what's your family like of course

what's your family like because your family is beautiful by the way though thank you guys are awesome love my family that's my religion my family is my religion that's you hell yeah um but that's the thing i'm never criticizing anyone i'm just object i'm just observing what i think yeah i see yes and i think when people

criticize other people's families or when they are interested in their families whatever i think it's really just the human need to to feel like we're like i think all parents go through the experience of like am i doing a good job i do yeah maybe some don't but i feel like a lot do like my friends anyways totally and i feel like we look at other families because we want to see like how am i doing that family looks perfect right fully oh yeah you know what i mean and the truth of the matter is there's no one way there's no perfect there's it's it's all just like messy and real and hopefully if you just love each other you learn you get better and better and better as you do it most definitely even you could say your family yeah oh dude we're we're we're trying i'm i'm

constantly even when i was back home for the three days. Like I got to see all my siblings and we all got big food and hung out and I was just seeing what's going on with them and seeing how they're feeling with my mom, seeing how she's doing. She's great, bro. She's super religious? Super religious. So is mine. Super religious. It's great though. Gives me a little. No, it's amazing. But like I really feel like in the past two years, me and my mom have been really close because when I first started going on tour, we had a little, she was kind of weary of what I was doing. She was worried. She was worry. And she was just like, what is this? Like, are you gay? Like, are you like, she's like,

we had the longest talk. And I was like, well, and I was trying to explain everything to her. And I was like, no, like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm just very comfortable with myself. And I love everyone. And I love to. I'm just me. I'm just me, you know, but that was a new thing for her. And as of late, we're just so close. And it's so amazing. And I'll bring her some of my ideas that I've learned from here and from some of my closer friends and things that I'm learning and what I'm up to and what I'm into and she's just so down and just accepts me. It takes a minute. It takes a minute. Generationally takes a minute. But it's so fucking sick now, man. Like, we just hang out and she's coming out here soon. And I just love that lady, man. I feel like she's really proud. Just because

it took her, it took me a while to get situated as an artist. So I think she was just scared. There's no timeline for that. Like, she was just like, all right, like, but now we're so close because she sees that I'm okay and I'm doing well. And, and, and I love myself. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and I have great people around me. And she's great, bro. Like, I love that woman. I really do. Really, really do, man.

She's the best. I feel like your parents have to be, like, warm people. They're so warm. Because you're really warm. Yeah. I'm just, that's what my dad was telling you. Like, we're like tender. I think that's the one thing I get from him.

Like, I'm like a tender lover. But, like, we don't come into a world that rewards tenderness and warmth. No, hell no. You know what I mean? Like, so it's very hard. I get pushed it aside mostly, but sometimes I can shine through. But mostly I'm just like, I'm just like, uh, it's like you too. And I'm just like, but I'm a lover.

So it's calm. But I really like, my family is the nicest people and I also am very nice. But you know, I like to get freaky sometimes on stage and, you know, in other ways. Express yourself. Yeah, exactly. You have to. Yes. But yeah, very nice person.

And yeah, I don't really try to be. It's just natural and it's calm. but but i i think a lot of that comes from your you your your family i think my parents had a lot of struggles in their both in their own ways got you but they were you know the early years when i when i was around my dad as many problems as he might have had he was he was a warm guy

yeah at the end of the day he was a good guy got you people liked him yeah he would help anyone he was like the pull over and help the guy with the flat tire with the truck yeah you know like that's who he was. That's the part of them I have kept what I loved about being here for seven years and learning and growing and being in the industry and trying to break through. I've kept that integrity and that niceness and that sweetness. Oh, wait. I know that about you. Like, I'm so happy about that because I could have got, you know, I failed for like so long in front of my friends, in front of my, I don't want to say failed. That's a bit aggressive, but like, it's aggressive. It is a bit

aggressive. Because you're here. Yeah. But you know what I mean? Like, I'm just like, I was in front of everybody just like, yeah, I'm jumping. You know, but I still just kept that hard about me in that sweetening. Why hasn't everything just worked out with? Literally, yeah, I know. But also, again, but I think this is important, though. Yeah. For every kid out there that's listening that wants to be where you're at,

you understand it physically. There's no magic ticket, lever, a poof, it all happens, lot and it's not the lottery you don't win the lottery and then you're successful it's a organic living breathing thing that you create from your mind yeah into your life and so you have to do things but at the end of the day your imagination yeah is the is the engine to create your dream and your dream becomes your life and then your life it gets bigger and it continues to grow you're I mean do you know I'm a big dreamer bro I couldn't have dreamed of of this year.

But you did somehow. I did somehow, but I mean, as far as like playing main stage at Redden and Leeds, playing main stage at Lala, playing all the big festivals, headlining, like having beautiful friends and people around me that inspired me so much and that I love so dearly. Even this year kind of fucked my shit up. I was like, oh, damn, I need to keep doing this and just keep being myself, I think, more so.

But this year even kind of was like, that's why I'd be walking around. Just like, nah, no, no, I'm just like, damn, it's cool. You know what I'm saying? And like, it's fun. You know what I'm saying? And it's sick. And I feel like what I'm making is incredible and strong. And I'm not trying to be anything else.

So it's like, I hope people keep dreaming and keep trying to be something that they've never seen before. Because I think the thing for us also, we need examples. And I never had any examples. But my, and here are the examples myself. That's right. You know what I'm saying? Like, so I mean, you're different.

You're different. And everybody fucks with you. In a way. It's sweet. Everybody likes you. No, it's sweet. Everybody likes you. I appreciate that.

Everywhere I go, there's so many artists that are not in, whatever genres, genres don't matter to me, but like people need genres to understand things like I sometimes. Of course. But like people who are in, that are just straight rappers, producers, rock artists. Most definitely. Whatever you want to call. However we want to label all the artists. artists. Yeah. I don't think any of that matters. I think real artists are real artists. Totally. And then there's people who want to be artists. And some people succeed just participating

in art, but, you know, they all succeed in different ways. And there's all different ways people can make it. But like real artists who are trying to like, they're, you know, a little tortured, a lot of need to be loved, you know, all that stuff. But, like, at the end of the day, like, real artists all like you. Yeah. It's really nice. I mean, I think it makes sense as well. Just, you know, I used to drive Shaq around to him to go meet Kanye, like, and just being in a studio.

Like, you know what I'm saying? I like Shaq. I love Shek. You know, Missago, let me write three songs on his first album. I was just getting out of work, like, just being, like, and he's more in the Neo Soul and R&B. He's dope. You know what I'm sending? He's a nice guy.

He's, and he's the sweetest. It's like, I've had so many, like, I've had so many, like, he's just being. I just had so many practice runs. Like, everybody knew that I wasn't ready, but I was always respectful and nice to everyone. And I never, still now I don't shout to anyone that I make music. Like, I'm just like, I'm just chilling. You know what I'm saying? But when you hear it, you'll dig it.

But I just want to do my work and do my job as a human and try to be a great son and be a great artist. And I'm glad that people dig it. But it's really, it's nice to be like, but I, yeah, I like myself. So I feel like that's what I'm saying. Like I genuinely do. Yeah, but I know you're always appreciative of people. I am. You know, you're just one of those guys, man.

I mean, that's what's so awesome about these three songs that we put out so far this year, bro. Like, I've never had any songs be received in a real way. And all of them have. All of them have, bro. Like, you know what I'm saying? Die out here to a good mood to take this crown with you, bro. That was good. You know, like, that was a legendary day for all of us in the studio and seeing you get to work.

And I just love that people are accepting what I'm doing now as I'm getting into my motherfucking vibe. Yeah. Hate to cuss like that. But just I'm really finding like, I'm really like finding my groove. And I'm like, perfect. Like, this is good. Because if it would have came before, people would have been like, mm.

And I also would have been like that because I wasn't, I wasn't fully in my journey. So it just takes its own time. Yeah. 100%. I wanted to. So, I mean, we don't have to go back anymore. But I kind of wanted to know, like, so you grew up. in Houston

and were you like good in school did you like it did you go to public school I went to public school I'll be honest I wasn't bad at school

like I kind of like to tell people that I was like I didn't really care about it but I did yeah I wasn't good at it I was terrible I didn't get good grades

but I tried really hard really okay but I have learning stuff and I didn't know it at the time Of course. And then I get older and I realize I have all this learning stuff. Gotcha. And I'm all ADD, ADC, all that stuff.

And I learned that I had like all these idiosyncratic things that I needed to like look, like accept. Yeah. And then as soon as I started just going with how I do things, I started killing it. Yeah. And then I learned a lot. Dude. See, that's fair because I kind of saying like I wasn't trying hard, but I will say I remember specifically eighth grade i was really slacking off and i think i had started dating this girl

and uh almost failed like i almost got held back and that just wasn't cool and then ninth grade up i i like i think i graduated with like a 3.1 that's great like i was like a solid student but by time i i was 12 i knew that i was going to be doing music so i was just like uh i graduated with a 1.6 5 really yeah i had to go to night school to get the extra points to get because what you need to You definitely need over 2.5 or is it over 2? I think it was 1.7 or 8? Yeah. Yeah.

Almost. And I tried. I tried. Well, look at you. I would literally get my report card and I was excited because I didn't. That's crazy. And I would open it every time as if I was going to get AIDS. You're about to kill it.

Yeah. Love that. It was terrible. Were your parents like hard on you about school? No. Got you. They were so busy. They had too much to deal with.

Understand. So with the kids, we were kind of just getting through it. Got you. Josh, my brother, Josh. Yes. He ran away when I was 14. Damn. He was gone.

He went to the East. Like, no, he went, wait, where did he go? Did he go? He went to, like, North Carolina or something. Okay. I know he's told me this story. Yeah. He's crazy. He's a crazy, man. I love that, man. And then my mom was, you know, she struggled. My dad was gone. So it was just like navigating all that. And then just going to like getting on a bus every day, going to like some school.

You guys went to public school? Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. Whatever school they sent, you know, wherever school you were zoned for, you just get on a bus and you go there. You didn't even like having the experience with like my kids where we, you know, they go to private school. So there's like, parent night and this and you do that and you go and you do this. And it's like, it's amazing. Yeah. I believe it.

Amazing. I believe you. That's not. When we were kids, it was just like, this bus picks you up. You get like a schedule or something. And then you just go and you go to the school. You know, good school, I guess. You know, it wasn't like a terrible school.

Got you. You know, there was no. I think I could remember that was like. like terrible. Yeah. But it was just a lot of people. It was, you know. Yeah, was it, do you remember like if it was like a 4A or like five A or did they have

those? I don't know. I don't know. But it was like bigger. Can I also ask one more question? Like 2,000 people maybe? See, that's a lot though. I feel like my class had like like, like 1,300.

Can I ask, were you in Bench like close in school? Like, we are always like. So for our whole life. Love that. We've been inseparable. That's so far. I just having like an extra homie to ride with and be like, yeah. That was it.

We survived everything. Love that. Love that, bro. Started working jobs together when we were 14 and like working all the day, working all the part-time jobs. Well, not part-th. I mean, we work like 40 hours a week from the day we could work. Y'all were getting it in. The day we could work. See, that's the thing too We could talk about it forever, bro Because like where y'all come from And like to what you guys are doing now And what you guys have done Like you have to be

I know you are proud of that But it's just like I'm proud of you Because I feel like we just come from a similar Like we've had to work very hard Bro And you get like you all shine so bright And it's just beautiful And I love being around y'all

And y'all inspire me constantly I feel like I find my people Yeah, you do for sure I don't feel proud I do feel I feel like we have integrity Yeah I feel like we're proud of what we do

We take pride in what we do Versus to me it's like I'm never satisfied And I never settle But I take I'm proud of my kids I'm proud of my friends I'm proud of my wife I'm proud of

That's real of the companies that we're building. But I take pride in it. Yeah, I understand. But it's just, I still feel like we have so much that we want to do. Of course. And I think it's, I've learned a lot. Gotcha.

I can sometimes, I can sell the dream a little too much sometimes. And a lot of people aren't ready for it. They don't understand the part that they, like, that my dream can't be your dream. No, hell no. You know what I mean? Like you have to dream bigger than me. You have to like, you have to have to have your own dream. But I'm gonna, my dream is my dream.

I feel like I can live it every day. I'm like selling it like, I believe in it. Of course. I'm like excited about it every day. Yes sir. Yes, sir. I've learned how to like, I think, temper some of that. Got you.

You know what I mean? Understand. I'm on, but I'm still learning. I still have so much work to know myself. But, um. But that's a beautiful thing. That's a beautiful thing. Because I feel like every day that I do go and I'm just like, keep getting better.

Like, even if it's not music that day, it's something that I was able to be more honest with my friend or be more honest with my family or, you know, tell Navid something that's been bothering me. Or like, just call him or even like, you know what I'm saying, things like that even if it's not. Or you're not a very confrontational person? I have been this year. But usually, well, in high school, I was kind of confrontational. Do you get in fights and stuff? I'm getting so many fights, bro. Over girls, too.

Silly shit. This year, I've been really good. I don't think it was over a girls though. It was. Yeah, but that may have been what you thought it was. Yeah. Well, it was over a girl, not girls. I wasn't like being a player.

I just thought I was in love and stuff. I was. But yeah. But this year I've been very, I've just been more honest, and I really appreciate that about just that daily walk and that daily growth. It's like learning, trying to learn more things, man. Even learning.

Do you go to therapy? I don't. Okay. I don't, but I don't think I need it. yet because I'm really good at like writing things down and processing stuff. That's dope. But I do, you know, when it comes up that I need it, I'll just go. But I really, I'll just call my mom sometimes.

I'll just talk to like my friend or talk to. Yeah, I have a hard time like holding shit in. That's good. Yeah. Like even if it's simple stuff, I'm just like, I don't know, I feel this. Like, it's usually nice stuff. But I don't think I need. I love, yes, I'm on Shakespeare right now.

I'm reading Othello. And that shit is goddamn everything. It's so good. That's awesome. Man, I'm so like, I was just in Houston just like, even every morning I try to get a few pages in. But that's what I've been reading lately. And I think before that I read Sam Harris. Nicole reads a lot.

It's like, I read out loud too because it just feels, it just helps me talk better and like be more confident reading. Because I think I never want to say it, but I think I might have a little. I just like, I get a little tongue tied. sometimes but I think reading out loud just helps me a lot yeah reading's the best I'm glad what is do you know what she's reading or is she dude if you come over to our house you'll see the book her bookshelf with all her books and she's it's a big bookshelf I mean it's like Florida ceiling you know it's a whole wall she's read every book love it it's all kinds of books I don't know it's like she she reads them all we gotta do a hang too man we're doing it we got to do a hang we're doing it we're

Dang. We've been talking about it whenever you guys get time. We have time. We're here. Yeah, man. Same, bro. Same. Can I ask you, I don't know how much time we got? We have time. Because we're just talking. Can I ask you, who are some artists of the past that inspired you? And who are some of these new artists that, if any, that you're digging?

So I just have to be a music nerd for two minutes. It's a really good question. And I should be the most musical person in the world. Yes. I should just know everything about music. I feel you. It's tough sometimes. But I'll tell you.

Please. You will, don't judge me. My heroes growing up, in the beginning, it was a, it was a poverty thing. Okay. So it was about changing my life. So it was about what I thought was the answer. So it wasn't really about music. Okay.

Okay. I get that. My heroes were Master P. Come on, bro. Come on. The independent king. Cash money.

Oh, okay. I see your vibe. Diddy. Yes. Jay Z. It was people that were successful. I just looked at people and I was like, how did he do that? That looks amazing.

They're living in an amazing life. And then I started to wonder, and that was the early, I love the Beastie Boys. was one group that actually I felt like oh I could look like that I could dress like that and I started to get my because because early on I didn't have a lot I had a you know self-esteem um lots of stuff that made you know that that that I didn't have a lot of confidence I didn't know how to dress I didn't know how to like and I didn't have my own swagger understand and I went to a school got picked on a little bit you know the kids were just kind of like mean and um sometimes not everyone you had it was not everyone um and we were poor so we didn't

have any money so it was just what it was you know um and so i just wanted money yeah that was all i wanted i just wanted to like have you it was like every every week there would be like something it was like i know you can relate to this i can't 20 dollars or 50 dollars was in between you and something you needed like a car part or a thing or this or that like it was always like something with money or like the actual like brand of shoe that you wanted oh yeah that or or just buy new clothes and not have to wear clothes that were donated or that were given or that you know what I mean yeah of course so I wanted to have nice things and I looked at all these guys and I was like they they have it and they're doing it with music and it's not you know like I

looked at it and I was like I thought maybe like I would have to do like illegal things to like get thing you know what I mean like it was it was weird but that was the reality was not going to college yeah I don't come from a family where there's a lot of opportunity there was not a lot of opportunity and it felt like everyone around that had money had it because like their family had it got you so in my mind that was the only way you have money yeah so if you're born with it or you're not and we just in my parents didn't teach me how things work like that in that like that way got you what I try to do now is teach my kids how things work totally love that is how you build a business and then you build a business and you grow and then it scales and then you you know and or you know

like teach them that they're capable of finding a way yeah to get whatever they want most definitely um so I didn't have that so music music it was immediately the thing that I attached my at 14 it attached myself to it and it became the the savior understand of my pain right and then I started exploring music and finding lack I found punk music I went from a lot of hip hop and rap to punk and then back to hip hop and rap and I was I would kind of go in between rap and punk and just back and forth I like the way this band looked

I was like their swag I just liked how they how they looked I like the way this band sounds I like the way I like how and I started kind of like picking things

cherry picking things that I thought were cool about each thing and attaching my my dream to it like I want to do something like that and but I really give

a lot of credit to the 90s to all of the hip-hop artists that were so entrepreneurial and it made me dream that I could do it too. So I've always had like a real affection for that era. I love that. And those guys, you know, I've certainly been able to meet some of them and tell a few of them that how much it meant to me that they did that.

Yeah. Because it was a model. That's the only model I had. Master P, like, people, more people need to know his story of like how he did that shit and, you know, got the offer from, I want to say the homie from Jimmy Iveen. Of course. And then was like, oh, if I can get that. I think that's just, I think more, no matter the race, people need to know that story.

100%. It's everything. Man, I feel like we could talk for four hours because there's so many subjects. For sure. That I think you have the best perspective on. Yeah. And maybe we can do it again. No, so I appreciate you for having me, bro.

I really do. And I love you so much, man. It's a blessing and an honor to get to see you and hang with you. We didn't even get to touch on most of the stuff I wanted to talk about. That's what happens usually. Yeah. But that's also a good thing. I feel like you're just talking, just hanging.

I feel like you're still, I feel like you still don't understand what I think I see, what I think people see. Yeah. And then maybe it's good, you know, like I think you just have to be. you and live but i actually don't think you understand like you know what we'll do is we'll come back here and we'll talk in two years i'm so down you know every or every year yeah check in because i think you're you're going on like on like on your own little spaceship and it's going to be really fun and you're going to have a lot of fun you have to act i mean i i just you know i'm working on it got i mean i just got i just got a little commercial and they've been sending me some really good

auditions. Just have fun, bro. Yeah, I do. I do. Don't do anything you don't feel like fucking good about. Thank you. I've said no to a lot of stuff. Just have fun.

Thank you. But you're going to find something there. I don't know what it is, but like there's something fun there for you. I agree. The thing is about acting, I've only done it one time so I can't. I don't know. And I'm such a student. I'm like, I need to be better.

But it's so, it's like, I don't know. They're so, they're actors. And I feel like I'm a. musician and I'm an artist more so and then I feel like I just got in there the one time and I was like yeah and they were just like cool all all the great actors that came from music yeah did it really well yeah yeah yeah don't think about it just be you I will like I don't know why I always think I'm like he's in Viyadh maybe oh no no it's calm but I mean we you know we have an agency now just doing really well uh they sent me on a funny one yesterday that wasn't my

favorite but I you know I'm always up for the job you know yeah just go and there's no harm in trying things no not as long you know like it's always about finding that the am i limiting myself for a good reason yes or am i doing it for an old bad reason that I should update that operating system 100% not limit myself but but these days like I'm so locked in with myself I can say no to things yeah like I'm like you don't feel it which wasn't a thing you know what I'm saying well it's not a thing so it's not a thing when you come from nothing to turn anything away yeah you know right right when I know no that's fair when we first when we first got started getting on and like having any kind of success yeah

we would take everything we would be like I'll do that I'll do that oh free CDs I'll take 500 of them like we were just like there was there's a there's a poverty thing like I'm never going to get anything ever again I better take it me and my mom talk about it all the time like I'll be like, I had to spend $8 on this, but then I did this. And she's like, yeah, you just, that's, you like me, son. I'm like, well, I'm trying to break out of that because that is not fun. Like that mental, like, little, like, block here, like, mm-mm. So late, this, this year, I've been, I'm like, whatever.

It's fine. Not whatever, but, like, I work too damn hard to be out here, like, stressed on shit. I feel like, yeah, I also feel like you come from an environment where people don't want kings to know their kings. Yeah, a little bit. And I'm not talking about your family. No, no, no, I know. I know. I know.

I'm talking about life. I'm talking about the system that was built, right? No, that's true, man. You know, the old, old, old system. I was talking to someone about this today with school. Yeah. The fucking industrial, it was built in an industrial time where they were just trying to like organize workforces and raise workforces.

And now that's not the time we're in. We're not like, we need individuals. We need people. that's who changes the world. We have these individuals that break out of the system. And then you, you know, we could do a whole other episode about what it means to be a black man in America growing up and then to become who you are in a culture

that has been waiting to be changed. Yes. And certainly... It's changing, man. I think you know that. Like, it's really changing. I mean, you look at the people that at the forefrette. But it's your generation.

A hundred percent. And it's fucking cool. It's dope. It's women. It's people of color. It makes me really happy. Right. It's also part of, like, why I don't actually want to put a lot of art out.

I feel you. It's not that I don't want to. It's not, I don't, the way I feel is I put my workout. And it's living and breathing. It's true. And then, but then now I'm more inspired by you or them or them. So I want to participate in your world, wherever that makes sense, right? Because it feels good.

It feels exciting. It feels like, you know, and I think that, I don't think the world needs, I think the world needs good art. It needs, most definitely. It needs good ideas. it needs the right messages. There has to be the people fighting for good. And they're doing it for the right reason.

They're doing it because they want to make things that help people, that heal people. And then there are people who are only driven by them, me, me, me, me, like you said. There are people like that. Yeah, of course. Of course. It all exists somehow together. No, it does. It does.

And then there's those, I think you're one of those artists that has to create or or they'll... Oh, wither away. They'll wither away. Totally. I mean, no, man. If I can't create or, like, really express my love and gratitude for things that I really care about, I have...

I don't want to say I have no reason to be here because that's what I may die here about, because I used to have this idea about dying really young and da-da-da-da. And once I, like, fully realize who I'm becoming and where I want to go, I was like, okay, actually, I don't want to die young. I want to live a good life and I want to be strong. But I do have to do those things. I do have to create and I do have to. love and that's okay because that's who I am and but if I can't do those things or I can't learn you

know what I'm saying and push forward you know but I'm doing those things right now so it's fucking awesome and I want to be here and I want to strive and yeah you well yeah it's real yeah can I say like one thing because I know I know we have to go we don't have to go but I can I say that one of my proudest moments was being in Dublin and texting you and binge and sending you guys an emotional voice message because I was so emotional and I was so happy and um you know the homie had just killed an amazing show and I think take this crown that just came out and and I was like I'm just like I'm from Texas like whatever but I just I'm really like the first person in my family to like push something you know what I'm saying and and I just felt proud of myself

and the people that I'm surrounded by and I just want to thank you I always I know I feel I feel like I always say thank you when I see you, but I really, I really love you, bro. I really do, man. And I'm really thankful for you, man, and for Madden and for this whole gang that we have here. Listen, it's very special. That song is badass because of you and Willow. Yes. Shout out to the queen. And that whole little, that vibe that was there that day that I got to come and actually

be a part of. And it actually, also for our 43-year-old dad of two kids who's like, actually my, actually my life, the day to day of my life is actually like dropping off at school, going to do this. Can you pick this up? Like generally speaking, like a lot of what I do every day is taking care of people and functioning in a family to help these two like people grow up. Yeah. And so my work has really become like my hobby, right?

But I don't get to do a lot of music as much these days. And so, and I just can't just go. into the studio. I feel you. Because like it's not with everyone you can just be free. A lot of people are like, yo, will you come and do the good Charlotte thing? And you're like, I want to do that. Yeah, yeah. But that didn't happen by trying to do it. It happened by like being kids and like having fun. Yeah. And so when someone puts pressure for you to do that and it's a stranger, it's, it's got to be just like natural for me. Like that's the only way. I'm going to get anything out.

I feel you. And so these days, it's hard to take on a session with a stranger. Yeah. Because you think they're just trying to get you to be this idea of you instead of what we have as a friendship beyond, like, through your career so far, I haven't been that involved. Yeah. I've just been me. Yeah.

So you come for words or we talk about something or Navid hits me up and we call someone. Yeah. It's involved. but not on the day to day of like what you're doing and what you've had to do I'm not all up in your shit but we're friends yeah we are we are yeah

and it's natural yeah I agree and all the good stuff has to be yeah yeah and so like I got to come and be in your world and for like a moment and that's why it's good and we could

I guarantee if we did that 10 times over we would come up with crazy shit because it The energy's there for like the freedom to like just create and play and have fun. Have fun. And so I felt more, I feel more thankful to you because you let me be a part of your cool-ass thing. Like I think you're an icon. Thank you, brother.

And I know you are actually. I got a lot of work to do, but thank you. I would take it. We all have work to do. And it's, I know you're young and you'll, when you're my age, a lot of stuff will make more sense. Man, I'm ready. I think that the more you, the more in tune you get with yourself and the more you just continue to double down on you, the crazier it's going to get. And the more fun you're going to have.

But you're the best thing in this scene. Got you. Well, I appreciate it. I'm working on it. Whether you want to be or not, bro. I'm just saying, like, we, we, we, that. That's why I love you being a part of my world. Yeah.

Yeah, it feels really natural. Like I remember you said something that day that was like, I think I played some of the records off the new album for you and just like, this reminds me of this. And it was like the first time you heard, I don't want to say the band, but it's like the first time you heard a really great band. And that just really, I was like, damn, because that's, not that that's what I'm going for, but I really, really, I want to make incredible forward, sexy, sexy. you know, poetry, poetic rock music. Like, I really, I love it. That's what you're doing.

I love that I've been accepted, but I'm really excited for people to hear this new album. And I'm, once again, I'm thankful to you. And I'm just like, yeah, just the journey has been awesome. We're thankful to you. You know, it doesn't, I don't think it's said enough in music and in arts. But all, it does take a team to work and to win. But what we, we, we, we, we, we, we, We work in this silly business. This business is so silly, full of foolish bullshit. Again, everyone's selling this fantasy. Like, once you get here, everything just better.

Right. You don't have to do anything. You're like, it's bullshit. Yeah. Like, we're never going to stop being human beings that are living and breathing every single day and having, like, if we have a connected life, then we have, there's complexity to that every day. Hell, yes.

If we want to check out and zonk out and just be like if you want to become the biggest person in the world so you can build a castle around you and zonk out and have 50 people doing everything for you so you don't. What I want is just to have a team of people that work together. Totally. That all are striving with with individual goals that all line up with our values and our thing. Like the dream is that like real people with real people with real. lives when you go out in the office there you see all these people working they're real people they have 100% families and they have you know i hope can they grow with you yeah your success is going to elevate them understand and their success is going to elevate you it's true and that's how it all

works together right is when we actually have like that connectivity with humans working together and so your cool ass thing you're building makes our shit cooler no doubt doubt. It just is what it's. So we're thankful to you. Yes, man. Because you put that work, you put that work in. For sure. Hell yes. You know, and it takes a team. Definitely takes a team. And like, Chase Atlantic

they love you and you love them, but you guys all came up together and their success affects you and your success affects them. And that's why artists a lot of times are lied to and pit it against each

other. No, not over here. When they don't realize like it's all works together. There's never going to be enough songs. Everyone can make as many songs as they want and there'll never be enough songs. People always need more inspiration. Just your song getting big is not making his song not. Right, right, right, of course. Getting that out of the way and helping people understand that we all, it's all connected.

And the lies in the music businesses with the managers and the- agents and all the important people. Of course. I'm not saying they aren't great team members. Everyone has a role. Yeah. But if we're keeping each other from being, you know, anyone that could scare you into thinking you have to work with them.

Yeah, yeah. Run from that. Yeah, hell no. Because what artists need to feel is the power of what they do. and then your partners and your team are supposed to empower you and yes some of them have relationships but there any relationship I have in the music business that you don't have is just because I've been here a little longer and it's not one that you can't get yeah and it but so

that's not to me it's like this lie of what everyone does it's actually the connectivity of a good team is is the most important thing yeah I agree but that's why I take every single manager I meet, artist I meet, like you always take the time to see what they are like as a person before I judge anything they're selling me about how big they are or how whatever. Like I'm not actually so concerned about who they are. It's more like I like to sit with them and then feel if they have that thing that like that connects with you. People have like those hardworking people with integrity. Most definitely. Do a great job. Yeah. I love meeting those guys. And some of them are managers. Some of them are agents. Some of them are agents.

some of them are at labels, but then there's a lot of people who think they have this idea of what they're supposed to be and they act like it. And then the whole time... It's cute, though. But like in a funny way, I'm just like, oh.

But there's a place for all of it, I guess. But at the same time, it fucks people up sometimes because artists then start to act like how they think they're supposed to act. So I'm Anna Mena. And like my music, my hair changes with me and has to be able to continue my rhythm. For so, potion 9 of Sebastian Professional has everything my

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orgs. I feel you so hard, bro. And they're not connected to the human experience of like what they're going through. Totally. Success has.

has great things, but then there's a other side of it where you have to deal with what it means. And if you can handle it, and if you're ready for it to, if your self-esteem is there yet where you can accept it, because what happens if you have a low self-esteem and you get too much success, you inflate your ego to feel like you have a high self-esteem. But it's not self-esteem. It's ego, which is, it's all kind of like, you know what I mean? And that's not self-esteem because it's given to you from other. people.

There's a whole other conversation. No, that's calm. But yeah. This is like us dissecting. No, I'm interested. I mean, I'm interested because it's like I've been in it. That's a beautiful thing too. This is my last thing about it.

Like, I've got to see the insides because like I've been with you guys for seven years. Like from the outside, but it's like it's really I kind of have not like a advantage, but I just have like the. You've seen. You've seen everybody come through the MDD indoors. 100%. But you see a through line with a lot of. though like chase atlantic look at them yeah those guys my babies those guys are humble yes but they're

not in the right ways midi you know what i mean like they walk around different now and i love it but they midi no but they earned it 100% and they did it on their own yeah they they just like you you you had people i mean that's why we connected so i mean we're yeah they really did it i just They had the, beautiful, man. What they thought the experience should be from the outside when you're a kid and you want to get that big deal. Yeah. You don't want that big deal. You don't want that million dollars or whatever they're going to hold in front of you.

Yeah. You want to grow and build something. And then you have the value that you can decide. How much of this do I want to share with each, with the record company or this or that? I mean, dude. And it takes all different ways. to get there. For sure.

So I'm not criticizing any artist that's had to do whatever they've had to do. I always come from a place of trying to share experience and information with zero, with transparency so that artists feel like they understand a little bit more. Totally. And then the self-esteem part is one of the most important parts is believing you can do it. Yeah. And that you deserve it. Yeah, for sure.

Is a lot wrapped up in self-esteem and past experiences and all that. but you have you're one of those guys that we're that I feel grateful to be in your world because you make my shit look cool come on man and that's what I like cool shit you know I like the way shit looks I like the way if I like I like cool shit yeah and so um I've been lucky enough to be a part of your story and it's facts bro it's just the beginning I mean you do you're getting ramped up for all this stuff and We're working on it. When's the album come out?

October 28th. Yeah. And then that's the thing to... I know, right before Halloween. I mean, it's the crazy thing, too, because it's like... You should have a Halloween party for the release party. Well, it's the big homie, it's the big homie B day, so... Oh, wow.

Yeah. So we're going to do something for that. I'm going to try to be RuPaul for Halloween. But I think being on an independent... We love RuPaul. It's Inkmaster and Rupar. Let's go. I think that's the thing that I've been so happy about, too, to be on an independent.

independent label for two years and then we'll be done. I've just got to learn so much and see what we can go from here with the value that I have now and with the smarts and the teams. Dude. And yeah, second album, also to put out a second album for me is incredible. And I just want to say that. Like, that shit is weird, bro. Crazy.

Like, two. I need 10, but like to have two. Two down. Oh, man, that's all right. So I got a lot of work to do, but it's good, man. Love you, bro. I love you, man. Thank you so much for having me.

First one. I know. We have to do it every year, not two years, because next show I have a crazier story for you. Zero plan. I came in with zero plan. I was like, I'm going to talk to DeWain. Yeah. We got some good shit out of it, though.

Yes, I love that. I love that. I hope there's someone listening somewhere that like, here's this. And I always daydream about these things. Because of what we do, we make content. We're putting stuff in the world every day. Whether you realize it or not on your Instagram or this or this, you're that, we're making content. And lots of people that you'll never meet that you can't see are looking at you.

Totally. And they're there for a reason. They're not, they don't go on Instagram because I always think about like, why do they go on there? It's for a reason, whatever reason, they're trying to escape something because they don't want to look at something else. So they're looking at that. And I think they're like looking at you and they're going and they're like shaping their idea of what they can be or what's possible. Totally. I hope that someone like hears it that's like some future world changing artist or something.

I mean me too. I just I want a second to that because I want to add on to that because I think I want in 10, 20 years that there's more black kids playing rock music and growing from a young age. Like I really think there's a big chance of the next generation coming up. Kids, teenagers, younger, you know, coming into high school automatically just on it. you know what I'm saying and not feeling afraid of their friends or what they've known in the past just you know seeing examples of the examples that we have in this new generation I'm really

excited about that so I really pray that that person's listening and those people are listening because I think it's just going to be a big change for the world I think they I think they are I think they will but I think we all have to participate in it oh 100% you know simple as that 100% we have to look for it you know it's real it's real um But it feels like it. Yeah, it does, man. I think it's gonna be fire. Love you, bro.

I love you too, baby. Thank you, man. All right.