Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Dexter Holland of The Offspring

Episode Date: October 9, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Dexter Holland of The Offspring. The Offspring have been kicking around for four decades, but the band are celebrating a major milestone this year — the 30th anniversary of their mainstream triumph Smash, which remains the biggest-selling rock album released on an indie label. In a similar vein as Dookie, punk purists disregarded the band when they signed to Columbia following its release, but they’ve only grown in stature over the years. Now, the Orange County vets are readying their 11th studio album, Supercharged (out Oct. 11), which was produced by Bob Rock and continues their streak of writing punk hits. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up everybody? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly on this episode. I'm talking to the lead singer of the offspring, Dexter Holland. Let's go. Smoking on Pivot. That's my kind. I don't want no bad times. I don't want to have bad. Where were you?

You come from an interview? Yeah. What interview was it? We're at our, the label at Concord. Oh, cool. Yeah, doing some international stuff over there, just like Zoom. Yeah, okay. mostly yeah a bunch of press stuff getting ready for the record getting you know how it is yeah yeah

get it all done yeah this is kind of the first kind of official press day that we've done so we're still a couple months out for like record set up like how much with your life can you dedicate to setting up a record yeah it's challenging for it is right it's been bunched up usually in the past right it kind of depends but you know there's so much as you know it's just noise in the world that's it's so much harder to make an announcement on anything. So you kind of have to devote more time to it, I think. It's the thing that I think, when I think about putting a record out, we're probably going to put a record out next year,

which has been like seven years. Okay. And the thing that stops me a lot of times is thinking about the setup of the record, all the promo and stuff. Pretty extensive for you guys then? Yeah, and I think I overthink it. Mm-hmm.

You know, because you know how it is. Some interviews are great. And some, you just feel like, oh, they don't even want to be here. Why am I here? Just funnel me through, you know. Well, it can be different because some people, they travel extensively to do stuff. You know, we've got to go to Europe for two weeks. And we've done that in the past.

And then the last time we did a record, it was actually during COVID. So there was no traveling at all. Changed the whole thing. And believe it or not, we did the most we've ever done because it was all Zoom, because it had to all be Zoom before. they'd be like, he will only speak to you in Paris in person, you know, that sort of thing. And so we did like, I think we counted him up. We did like 150. Like we did the most promo we've ever done for a record. So it actually kind of worked out in that way. Yeah, I feel like COVID

broke down some of the old, like rigid rules around like how we do any kind of press or promotion or anything like that. Because at the end of the day, like we call it promotion, but you actually care about the record you made. And when you, you can go and actually give it to someone, talk about it, and it feels like they care. You never mind doing that. For sure. I would travel anywhere if I knew it meant something. For sure, yeah.

And the measurement you do a lot of times is just like, how much pain am I willing to go through to promote this to a writer or a magazine, whatever, and feel like it was just nothing. I feel like a little disappointed and like you get used to it as you. you know, through your career. But there's nothing better than I think when you get to talk about your record and it feels felt, I think. Receptive, right? Yeah. Well, so you're saying then it's been seven years since you've done like promo for a record then, right?

Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Because we were just talking today, like, I don't know if you've noticed this because it's been a little while, but like, I feel like the more that time goes on, the easier it gets because they're more familiar. Like, you're kind of more accepted than you were when you were a kid. And they're like, who's this guy who thinks he's, you know, he's got one song on the radio.

Yeah. even though you don't age. Yeah. Well, I don't know. Thank you. I don't know if it's the, I saw you got a PhD in biology.

Yeah, yeah. Is there anything you learned in biology with aging that you're like, I'm using that? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I developed this thing in the lab.

It's a secret concoction. That's fucking great, man. You look great. Yeah, no, thank you. Thanks a lot. Yeah, I think the older you get as a band,

certainly you guys have this legacy, and there's not, a lot of bands that can hold a legacy over decades, but are still a vital band. So you guys tour, play these big shows, put out records. There's energy in the band. I think there's just not that many bands that have legacies over decades, especially in the last decade. If you think about where music's been, there's been less bands not only that have made it to the zeitgeist of like popular culture but i think less bands started in the 2010 to 2020 decade than ever yeah um to be able to have the catalog you guys have of like great songs hit songs great

records uh consistently over the decades and then still be in the world giving them to people playing shows just not that many bands maybe is there dozens maybe like like it's just such a small number of bands that I think the conversations that were had about us when we were younger, I think probably more us than you guys was like, are they this, are they that? Are they this or they that? The music fans arguing, which isn't bad. Those go away over time if you, I guess, stick around and keep doing it. Yeah. Well, I mean, thank you. That's very flattering. And I mean, that is a good question. Like, is there just less good bands or is it just harder to break through nowadays? I'm not really sure the answer to that. But, you know, I think one of the first bands I noticed,

at least in our world that this was happening with, since a long time ago, and it was social distortion really, right? They finally got to a point where they were just kind of invincible. They could go play 10 nights at wherever it was, and they had just kind of, they had outlasted the critics.

That's really what it was, right? And I thought that was really encouraging at the time. They're like, wow, this is great that they're kind of, they're made men in a way, right? Yeah. It's funny, too, to even say like social distortion in your mind, you go, yeah, they were always accepted. Yeah.

And you forget that it wasn't like that. like then right yeah yeah yeah like we were talking today about some of the the press that we've been doing and how it was uh it was pretty brutal at the beginning some some of some of the guys right like they're older than you are they're not really into your kind of music anyway they don't get it and they're just kind of like giving you a hard time it was it was really challenging back in the day but i'm finding more and more that people have kind of they kind of grown up with us in a way right yeah so it makes for a much nicer conversation now than it used to and the proof is always in the catalog over time.

It's just, you guys have so many songs. You guys, I mean, how long is your set? As long as it has to be? Yeah, you guys have a lot of great songs. Hey, I mean, I don't know about you. I mean, I'm a big fan of bands are like, we're going to go on, we're going to show the fans, we're going to play for three hours.

But, man, it's hard doing that, especially when you're playing stuff like we all play, right? Yeah, it's energetic. Yeah. It costs a lot of energy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, I mean, you know, we're anywhere from an hour to an hour and a half maybe.

It's kind of where we're at right now. I think that's a sweet spot. I think so, right? Yeah. Hour 15. It's hard to carry things longer than an hour and a half. Maybe, you know, we're thinking about trying to go to an hour 40 or whatever, but you get to a certain point where there's going to be a lull in the set, you know, the longer you

go, there's only so much you can do to keep it. And I just, I love keeping it at high energy the whole time if you can. Yeah. And I've gone to shows where it hits like the 145, two hour mark. There's a little bit of like a anti-climatic feeling of I almost like it when there's one or two songs, I wish they'd played. As long as you play most, you know, as long as you play all the, all of them. But shaving songs off is hard sometimes because you're like, oh, we have to play that one,

which one goes. But it is good to leave, especially if you're coming back, to leave people with a little something to want. For sure, for sure. There's an art to it too, right? I mean, like, I think it's okay to start off with a bang and have it. the energy come down a little bit in the middle and then bring it back up at the end right that's kind of cool it's like kind of like a we laughed we cried the whole thing right yeah but um yeah but you still want to keep it like you said entertaining and going the whole time what do you think

keeps you wanting to do it and what is it that keeps you guys healthy as a band like emotionally maybe it's your relationship and then as people like what do you think that sustaining philosophy is yeah well i mean it's fun right i mean we were teenagers going to shows and And there was just something about being at those shows that was like the most exciting thing I'd ever been a part of, right? And it could have been little club shows with a 12 inch stage. We were watching some small band or it could have been the Dead Kennedys at the Olympic or whatever.

And it's just like there was just a real excitement to it that I just ate up. I loved it. So the most fun thing I could do would be to play a show on Saturday night at a little club, right? That was better than, I don't know, anything. Yeah. Going skiing or whatever. Like that's what I wanted to do.

So I think that's probably a real factor. it, right? It's just that that's just a fun feeling, as, as you know, like, it's the best feeling. And then what, especially once it gets to the point where they're actually seeing stuff that I wrote, right? That's like a whole different level of, holy shit, this is the best thing ever. So that's really cool. I mean, the fact that we're friends. Yeah. It's a big part of it. And I think the fact that nothing happened for us for 10 years. Like, it wasn't like all of a sudden we had shit to deal with. Like, we were fucking nothing for 10 years. We had to just learn how to deal with each other and learn how to become a band and play together and do all the stuff that

bands need to know how to do in order to interpersonally navigate before anything happened. And so in a way, that was probably a blessing. Yeah, waiting, feeling it, like I think anybody that's successful, you have to kind of feel it in your gut that it's there that you could achieve it, even if everyone's like, hey, good luck, kid, nice, nice music, cool. Yeah, you know that, you said, you know, we were a band and, 96 and we probably didn't really get opportunity until 2000. So it wasn't as long.

It was four years, right? But the four years was all we thought about was wanting to make it, you know? But you feel it. But then you try to, you share it with people. You try to promote yourself and you get that like blank stare. And you can just, you can tell when someone doesn't, isn't buying it. Yeah. For 10 years, you guys had to have felt something was there.

We were going to. Yeah, I was bullish more than the rest of the world probably. Yeah, I don't know. I think, you know, we also started from we didn't even play instruments. No, do we? Okay. Yeah. The learning curve was really long for us getting to figure out how to play and how to be a band

and how to promote yourself. No one was interested in us. So it's like, well, I'll just, I'll buy cassettes and I'll dupe cassettes and we'll hand them out at shows and just like, you know, things that were maybe in some ways effective in some ways didn't help at all, right? And that just really took a while to just develop all. that stuff and really getting to know people, I think, because as you know, it's so much about the people that you know that can help guide you in the right direction and stuff.

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What year was that when you guys started? 85? 84, 85? And from there to like smash, how many years was that?

It was about 10 years. 10 years? Oh my God. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Yeah. People say like,

I've heard interviews of famous bands. Like when we first started, there was only six people in the audience. And I'm like, there was only six people in our audience for about eight of those 10 years.

Like it was like really where we lived for a long time. And where was it was that in like southern California? Yeah, yeah. We grew up in Garden Grove. Oh wow. Which County. Wow. Yeah.

And that ended up being like this little like hub for this like Southern California music like all the little cities in Southern California. I mean, you would have probably come and cross paths with so many bands that went on to have different levels of success. Yeah. I mean, after a while, you know, we grew up, I really liked the Orange County bands. I love TSOL and the Vandals and D.I and social distortion, of course, and all that's, and I think in some weird way that did influence me and that I was interested in punk rock,

but a melodic kind of punk rock that really wasn't very common at the time. There was a lot of black flag and circle jerks, and those are great bands and classic bands. But, I mean, where I was coming from is I wanted to add the songwriting element to punk stuff. And you're trying to figure out how to do it, and you try to take your cassette to the and they're like, we don't want you or how many people can you draw and we can't draw anybody. And so you try to figure it out. You know, we went through the whole thing where someone, some sleazy promoter made us buy 100 tickets that we had to resell.

Yeah. We lost a lot of money on that. Yeah. You know, and then eventually we tapped into this thing, which was the backyard party. You know, finally people knew us enough like, hey, we should come play a party. And all of a sudden, you're playing for 300 kids in a backyard. And it's pretty fucking great, right? Yeah.

Those were the days. If it didn't get broke up, broken up by the cops. Yeah. But that's kind of what I mean, the way you kind of just have to live and learn and figure out how to find your audience somewhere. I would say there are two records of yours that had a profound effect on my own, not only my songwriting, but my perception of like this music could matter in the halls of music history when you think of great records. Smash to me, one of the greatest records of all time. Awesome. Thank you. And it's funny because like when you're young and you make those records, like, you're not thinking that at the time. You're making a record you love.

You want to go play it. For sure. And it's interesting too because like when you think of classic records, that would be on all my lists next to, you know, what I was raised to think is important. It wasn't the kind of music we were playing. Like it wasn't cherished at the time as anything important. It was like young or whatever, like pop punk or whatever you call it. I don't even know if we ever really felt like it was that. that. We loved punk music, but I was like, yeah, I wanted to make, like, good songs, like,

songwriting that people would sing. But that one, and then Ixnay was such a, for me, such a great, like that record, I love that record. I listened to that record. I wore it out. And obviously, you guys have had a bunch of records I like. Just at the time in my life when I needed the record to show me something, those records appeared. And so I, in, in, in, in, pivotal moments of my own, you know, gathering my own idea of what a record sounds like, what are the parts of the record, you know, how does the record flow? Yeah. You know, even the album artwork, all of it. So it's interesting. Like me and my brother were talking about it. I was excited you were coming in. But we were talking about at these pivotal moments,

these spots in our life where records have come and influenced you and could be your songwriting. It could be the idea of the success you could have. There's a whole bunch of ways a record that couldn't influence you. Those two records stand out to me as like really important moments that I went on from. And I think they infused into our records somehow. And it's cool to be able to tell you that to sit here and I go, those were really important. It really means a lot.

Thank you very much. That's cool. Really cool. And especially, I don't hear that a lot about X-Nay. So that's interesting. Dude, such a good record. I don't, thanks. And like, I love music.

So maybe if there's 50 records or if there's 100 records, that I could say like that record did something to me, that record's on the list. And so, Smash. I mean, it was, it was, those are great records. And a catalog are great records. How many records do you guys have? We've done 10.

10 records. Yeah. It's great. Yeah, got 11 coming out. You know, Smash was the first one that broke out for us. Yeah. And people thought it was our first record. It was our third because no one had heard of us.

But Ixte was kind of like the, you know, the inevitable sophomore slump is what they're saying. And I'm like, we're going to prove them wrong. We're going to, you know. And it didn't do what Smash did, but there was no way it was going to, right? And also talking about... Like Pinkerton. Yeah, talking about songwriting. It's like, I knew that I couldn't do Smash number two. Like, it would be, I had to go somewhere else for a minute. And that's what the idea, what X-Nay was,

was to make an album, make it really be an album, not so much trying to be art, but I mean, expand our circle a little bit. Let's see what else we can do, which ended up serving us really well because then when it came back to do other records, it wasn't like, what the hell are these guys doing, right? Because we had kind of pushed that boundary enough that we had enough space. Yeah, because the record after Ixna was Americana, which was big. Yeah. And I don't think you would have gotten to Americana if you didn't make Ixna. Exactly. It expanded what people could hear from you. And I think it was songwriting. I think it was more and more just digging in on like what a good song is, even though Smash was full of good songs, it was very stylized and it has,

it's a record that sounds, there's no other record like Smash. But if you made Smash again, I don't know if you would have gotten to Americana. And Americana led you to down the road of this like long career. Yeah. And I think that every step's important. And that's the artist instinct to do that. It's almost like your subconscious sees the whole way through. Right. And like you followed it. Thank God. And I would bet there's a ton of people, I'm sure it's not. the first time you've heard it. But like, I would bet a bunch of people, like real hardcore fans love X-Nay.

Yeah. Because it's an important record. Thank you. Yeah, I know. We hear that for sure from the fans, right? But it's that weird kind of stepping stone. Sometimes you have to go through that to get to the other stuff, right? Yeah, I remember when that record came out.

I bought it first day. It was awesome. It was great. Yeah, as like, I'm sure you know, like there's bands that they get associated with one kind of sound or one kind of song. And like, I mean, I don't know, let's say the remotes, for example. Yeah. I love the remote's deer.

but they couldn't go out of their box after a while, right? There was just no way. They weren't going to be, fans were not going to accept anything that didn't sound like that certain thing, right? And I was very conscious of not wanting to get stuck there, right? I want to make sure, let's make sure we push the boundaries enough so that we have enough freedom to do stuff and let it be heard and kind of accepted by the fans.

It makes sense. Now, looking back, I mean, look at the whole catalog. Yeah. I don't think it would exist the way it does if you hadn't made that record. But when it comes out at the time, It was like, what the hell are these guys doing, right? Yeah. You know, and it's a scary time when you put that out.

You're like, man, it's disappointing. I hope this is going to go over. And sometimes it does. Well, it doesn't always, but sometimes, you know, when it works, it can really work. Pretty fly was a good example of that. We put that out and, like, I just knew driving around, like, I'm seeing this in my neighborhood. I know this is a thing. Kids that are acting like this, right?

And no one's done a song yet about this. And I'm sure someone's going to in the next six months, the Beastie Boys are going to do it. If I don't do it, I hope I get it out first. But still, it was also very. I don't know. It was kind of a novelty song in a way, right? So I knew that there'd be a lot of haters on it too. Well, in the time it was novelty because it was new. Now it's a style of song that I would say you guys, I would give you guys a lot of credit for pioneering this kind of it's novelty, but there's truth to it. So, but no one wants to admit it. Right. Right. Like,

I don't want to admit that I'm that guy sometimes, but I am. But when you listen to it, You relate to it because you're like, we all have that side to us. And so someone had to say it because you see it. And you're saying what we all see. Yeah. But you said it in a way that we all agreed with. And therefore it was celebrated. And maybe at the time people could have picked it apart because it's the offspring.

So you could argue this or that or this or that. But like at the end of the day, if you just look at a good song, a pop song, and you could go back through the history of. of the songbook of all these these songs that were you could say novel in their you know how they were delivered or whatever it created a whole category of a song that people tried to replicate how many songs came out after that where people were trying to do something that was like novel and funny kind of funny but kind of true even our music we have tons of like kind of funny kind of true catchy like it's a big part this is what me and benj we're talking about we were talking about

the influence you guys have had on music and in rock music, especially like a whole category of rock music, is like pretty profound. It's pretty cool. Oh, thank you. With a song like that, I was trying to write about something that everybody knows, but no one's done a song about yet, right?

And that wasn't a good example of it. I think self-esteem was kind of like that as well, right? No one had really written a song, or I don't know, it seemed to, but they're also in on the joke, I think, is what it is. So it makes you, you don't feel like you're picked on. You feel like, I get it, wink, wink. We're all in this together, kind of, right? Yeah.

And it has to be kind of. Some of the truths are the only way we can say them is if we all kind of laugh about them. But it's the truth. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. October. Two months. October 11th.

Yeah. It's called Supercharged and very stoked about it. What's the vibe? Fast. Yeah. a little more direct. You know, we just spent all this time talking about expanding your circle,

but sometimes it just feels right to kind of go back to the middle, go back to your lane a little bit, right? And I think the album's a little bit more like that. I think partly because, you know, our last album, you talked about taking a lot of time off. It was nine years between records before the last one.

I went back to school and did a bunch of stuff. Why did you back to school? Why? Yeah. When the band broke in 94, I was a graduate student in molecular biology, And I was actually pretty close to finishing. I just had to write a thesis.

And the band broke and it was like, you have to go. And I asked my manager, I go, if I just waited like a year, would that be okay? So I could finish. He goes, dude, this will not be here in a year. He goes, you got to go now. And he was right. We had to go then. So I took a leave of absence.

I didn't officially drop out. And so after all these years, some of the professors were still around. And I felt like the door was open, but they were also getting older. and I knew that that wouldn't be there for too much longer. And so I petitioned and they were very nice to let me come back. And I didn't have to do remedial coursework or whatever. They said, just pick up where you left off. That's cool.

It was great. I thought, this is going to be easy. All I have to do is write a thesis. It took like five years. Wow. Well, as you know, like I can spend a day or two a week maybe on it. But, you know, you have a life and it's hard. You can't go full time back into something else because you're already full time.

Yeah, you're full time and everything. I mean, I'm, yeah. But even when you don't have that, you think like, oh, we're going to get a record out in a year. And then all of a sudden you do all this touring and you come back and you're like, shit, it's been two years and we only have two songs done, right? Because it just goes by really fast. Yeah. Before you know it, this record's three years in between records. And I say like, you know, in music years, that's like nothing, you know, that's great.

So it took you five years to finish the degree? Yeah. Which school? USC. Okay, cool. Yeah. That's cool. And did you have to actually go to campus at all?

Uh, yeah, I could do a lot of it remotely because it was more computer based at this point, but yeah, I was going, going in once a week for sure. That's crazy. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, it was a slog. And now you have a PhD. I know, crazy, huh? That's crazy.

It was kind of like, I mean, I certainly don't need it, and I'm not doing it just to put a plaque on the wall, but it was kind of like, it was there and I'd come that far. It would have been ashamed to not finish it, right? Absolutely. I'd be disappointed if I knew that and you didn't finish it. Yeah. I didn't know that. Right.

Yeah. That's fucking awesome. So, you know, and it's like jujitsu or something. It's like mastering something that is like for the rest of us is I wouldn't even know where to start. Yeah, there's a good feeling about knowing about something in depth, right? Yeah. You know, and we experience that in different ways in our lives for sure. And this is so drilled down.

It's so esoteric. No one knows what you're talking about even, right? But still, just finishing that was a good feeling. And when you go through life, you don't always know how things are going to connect together down the road. right? You know, like this may come into play in some other way down the road. I don't know what that is yet. Yeah, I think so. I think there's something out there. Also something about finishing something, no matter how when you started it, because there was some part of you that actually was interested in that when you started it, you have to kind of like give attention to that part of you. And you push it aside

for this other thing, the music and the career. And then it gets, you know, the music career, it takes on a life of its own and you kind of respect it. So you nurture it, you maintain it out of respect for the opportunity, especially if you don't come from much. You know, for me, like poverty was a real thing. And any opportunity was important because for 18, 19, 20 years, I had no opportunity and felt not very valuable in the world. And then suddenly there's all this opportunity. So we, I remember the first 10 years of our career, we just said yes to everything because we were terrified of, right? Yeah. Of disrespecting the opportunity that we had or not appreciating it. And I had to learn in my older age, like, no, you shouldn't actually say yes to everything. You should do the things that are right,

that feel right, and what you can do. And if you're lucky enough to be around long enough to do that, then I think you can find the balance of the career and the real life. I think if you don't have a real life, things you enjoy, people you love, health, your well-being. I don't think you can enjoy the career like you thought maybe you could when you were younger. Yeah. I hate to use the word balance. That's silly, right? But I mean... That's the word. It kind of is. Well, you're the PhD, well, in the music business, it is so easy to not be balanced because the things you don't, you don't have a normal day. And, you know, you're in Europe and then you're upside down and you can't sleep and you're up all night and, you know, and trying to sleep during the day.

and you know and people have a lot of substance problems and there's partying going on all the time and you know you're on tour and you know we like we joke around and say well apparently every night Saturday night because when you show up to the show all your guests show up with a beer and they're like woohoo that's their weekend it's their weekend right and you're like it's 17 days in a row for me right yeah you kind of go with it at first it's kind of like fun and you realize you can't keep up with that forever it's going to really take you down so you have to figure out how to yeah how to even it out a little bit yeah and then over time you watch people literally die. But I saw it enough that I was like, okay, that's not the way. That's not the way. I think I got to like figure out how to be happy. For sure. Healthy. For sure. Yeah. I'm not saying you have to abstain from everything necessarily, but like you were talking about people dying and it's very deadly business, right? Yeah. When we came up, it was like, who died from drugs? Well, it was Jimmy Hendricks and Janice Joplin and they were hippies and whatever. That's totally different. And then all of a sudden, as time goes on, you see, I mean, how many guys? can you think of that, you know.

More than we could even name here if we really went through the list. It's freaking deadly serious. Yeah. People really, yeah, people really die in this business. And what a shame, you know. The business or the machine or whatever you want to call it, the big world we get into when you have hit records and you're selling out tours and stuff. It's not that I think it's fully an evil thing,

but they're not necessarily guard railing anyone. They're just like, keep the thing going. So if you don't have anything. grounding around you, you know, I'd see how a kid who's got a low self-esteem, has a hit record, goes off the rails, I could see how they wouldn't, wouldn't last long because any opportunity you want for anything is there in success. Yeah, that goes back to that 10-year gap I was talking about. I was 28 when the band took off, which is older than a lot of, yeah, a lot of people, right? And I think that ended up being lucky, you know, because I was a little

a little bit better able to to stay grounded, I think, and all of that, right? Yeah. You were younger, I think, right? Yeah, I was probably like 21. Wow, okay. That's a lot to deal with being that age. And I was a really immature 21, because I hadn't really traveled and hadn't seen anything. And we came from a really small town.

So I think we had a lot of learning to do. Yeah. I think part of the first experience I had was I thought it was the greatest thing ever that we got signed and we put a record out. and we had a song that was doing okay. And then the second record was the one that kind of, you know, got big. I was just like, everyone's going to love us. And then, no, they didn't.

But that's natural, right? Like, like a band gets big. You're going to be met with all these people that like you. And then all these people that don't like you because that's natural. Like, that's the pop conversation. Sure. And I think my 20s was spent catching up in maturity and then making and then surviving that first part of my career. And I think it was around 28, 29, when I started to like go,

oh, wait, I can stop and like try to unpack some of this and make sense of it. Yeah. Also see like what's going on with me, you know, because I didn't like grow up going to therapy. So I hadn't even unpacked my childhood or anything. Okay. You know, so I spent my 30s doing that. Yeah. Less music. Wouldn't trade it. Wouldn't change it. Yeah. Because I think I'm 45 now. if we never made another record, I'd be fine. I'm happy with what we've done. And I love my band. We're still together.

Same band since high school. Now we do things because we really want to. We're making a record. I really like it. We're really enjoying the process of it more than ever, probably. And I feel free from needing anyone else to like it. You know? That's great.

You guys doing it here? Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. That's great. Yeah, 21, that's, it's very. heavy having all that success that early on, right? And you kind of get a little bit ahead of yourself, I think. It's important to slow yourself down, I think, right? And that's hard to learn until you

get a little older or until you go through a real downturn, right? Yeah, which we did, you know, around that time, like 2011 maybe. Everybody does, right? You know, like, yeah, like music changes. Yeah. Nobody wants to hear for you. You've had like a decade of like kind of hit songs and then suddenly it's like drops off a cliff. And you think it's over because you have. haven't been through that before. And then age teaches you that it's like cyclical. You know, if you hang around, stop needing everybody to love your band. Right? You got addicted to that. I did. Let go of that. Like, just love your band yourself. Get back to like where you started. That's when for us it like really came fully formed. That's when I actually think Good Charlotte

it became the band we are. 2011, 2012, whatever. We took time away. We had all had little babies and stuff. And we were like, let's just focus on our families and like, let's find out whatever's meant to be. And that's when I realized like, oh, what we started as actually was the right thing.

We were trying to figure out how we pulled off this like fluke success. It wasn't a fluke. The right idea was like, We like to do this. We love this. We believe in it. We love each other. And we had the records we had and they were what they were supposed to be.

And then we got on the other side of it. And we were trying to figure out like, what did we do wrong? Age kind of tells you when you look back on it. It's like it's just the times. They go up, they go down, they go. And then we played some shows recently, best shows of our life. And you kind of realize like, oh, you just have to be yourself. Yeah.

I think that's what we learned. we're having some great shows too right now yeah you guys have to career shows it's yeah it's going really great and I don't know what's going on that all of a sudden whatever zone we're in you guys are in is I don't know if the word is happening or what but I mean

you know I'm thinking back to 94 you know we were on the radio with come out and play keep them separated stuff but I mean the contemporaries were counting crows and the spin doctors and you know all these bands that like how are somehow we the ones that this still feels right, you know.

Not the kind of crows doesn't feel right. I don't mean that. Everyone's great in their own way, but I mean. Well, you guys, well, I'll tell you what I think it is. One, I think you guys built a live culture because that was a necessity back then, like, and it was a very kind of like in the world of like punk and all the adjacent music, live was such an important part. If you weren't good live, you didn't survive in that world.

You had to be good life. You had to put on a show. So I think it's a culture. I think it's the. songs, just so many of them. I think there's a work ethic that you guys have always had, that I've always seen it. And then I do think that generationally, it's not just people like me who listen to your records. Kids are now looking for the next step in their musical development.

So you have these like teenagers who are just getting into rock for the first time. So everything's new to them. You guys are new. We're new. And I think it's good records, good songs. They stand the test of time. and that feeling and energy in your music is always going to be one that people have

at any age. And some people come for nostalgia. There's a part of the audience. We see it. There's a big section of the audience that's nostalgia. There's a big section of the audience that's never gotten to see his play before.

And then there's a big section that just discovered our band like a month ago. Yeah. And they're new to them. I'm shocked at how much when we go to the same city over and over again, we have a different, you can have a totally different crowd

from year to year, right? So it's cool that there's that many people out there. Yeah. That's always fun. And I know what you mean about the generational thing, about seeing young kids in the audience and stuff. It's really cool. Yeah, it's really cool.

Yeah. Me and my brother and a couple friends were talking about the Rolling Stones. It's amazing that they're still playing. How about this, though? Drumspace and guitar. Is that part of the key? Some of the most classic bands keep it to drums based and guitar. And you talk about guitars going out of fashion

and then coming back or whatever, but you keep on going back to those bands, I think. Yeah, and I think it is drum bass. bass of guitar, like there's something magical about a band getting up and playing live. And it's really actually coming out of the amps. You're really singing. There's something about that, like a group of people getting together. No one sounds like the offspring, right? You guys get up on stage. You do your brand of music. And when you get up there, you play. And people are watching these people in real time, in real life, do something that kind of looks like a magic trick

to the, to people that don't do it. Isn't that kind of a trip to you, though? It is kind of to me like, just plug it in and playing the same with things we've done in the garage when we were kids yeah in the studio it's not magical to us but it is magical and a world full of like algorithms and you know um digital which i don't hate digital there's a lot of great things about digital uh that that make things really really easy uh but it'll never replace like it's like why we watch sports they're really doing it they're out there competing yeah and we go on stage we all plug and we play add in whatever you want but the guys making the music are playing the music right and there's something about that that is really hard to replicate any other way hard to quantify i guess right

like you're kind of talking about almost like the they can do something i can't do kind of thing right maybe i i can totally relate to that in terms of watching sports you know went to the went to the dodger game last night oh cool just watching them play was great and otani do you like baseball uh my friend does and uh not that i don't I enjoy going a good game and stuff. I love baseball. Yeah. But it was so fun. Doctors are great.

Yeah. And just, you know, and Otani, of course, now, fucking killing it and home run last night and stolen bass and like. Yeah. Yeah. You look at that and go, wow, it's impressive. Modern day, Babe Ruth. Otani's amazing.

Yeah. It's like musical theater, too. When you go to theater, when you go to a really good play, it's real. It's live. And if they fuck up, it's not horrible, actually. Right. When you watch the rawness of live, the same with a with a with a rock band yeah there's a reality to it for sure yeah

isn't that what drew you to club shows early on because that was so real and so live right in front of you right you know as it gets bigger the band becomes a little further away and uh it can seem a little more put on or a little more rehearsed or whatever right and i find that on the other side now being the band i'm i'm looking to the audience farther away going this is different you know in the old days i could talk to that guy right there and you know we'd say something funny and then he would mosh or whatever. And now I've got to figure out, how can I connect with that guy who was 100 yards back, you know, or 100,000 people back?

Yeah. It's a different kind of challenge. But that's part of the fun of it, I guess. It is. And it's cool to be there, to be at that stage in your career where you're playing those size shows. To think about that, I mean, from 85 to now. Yeah.

I mean, the statistical possibility. I'm not saying this to anyone out there listening that has big dreams of being in a band for 40 years. It's not impossible. It's not going to happen for you. But the statistics say it's very, very hard. Statistically impossible. I like how you put that. Because it's true.

Like, you know, the odds are like zero, basically. And I think that's why when I was younger early on mentally, it's why I knew I had to stay in school. Because I knew like, the logical side of me was like, dude, this is not going to happen. You know this is not going to happen. But my heart was still into it. I was going full on for the band at the same time, right? And I was able to juggle both for a while, but I just couldn't let the band thing go.

So I knew that's what I really wanted to do. But just knowing that no band's making. And looking back now, like, everybody I knew was in a band, right? That's kind of what happened. Your friends all become guys that are in bands and thinking about how many of them actually made it. And it was like zero. It's hard.

Yeah. And not that they weren't good. The stats say it ain't happening. Yeah. Yeah. That's why when, when, you know, you're starting a band as a kid and the adults around you're going like, oh, they laughed. They laughed.

Yeah. My older brother laughed at me. They have a backup plan or whatever. They're not wrong in the sense of what they're trying to do, which is protect you from, you know, failure or whatever. But have you seen decline of the Western Civilization Part 2, the metal one? No. Oh, because that's the one where the first one's all about punk bands.

The second was all about all the metal bands in the late 80s trying to make it on sunset strip. and they're all going, we're going to make it, we're going to make it. And none of them do. And it's so depressing to watch these guys. And, you know. It's sad. Yeah.

Just drink themselves to death and all that stuff. And it was like, I don't want to end up like that. Yeah. But for whatever reason, you saw it all the way through. You could have quit somewhere in that 10 years. Yeah. And there is something about not quitting. Not to say that's the only reason that you made it.

It's not. The songs and the talent and the hard. to describe thing is what feels probably like magic. But had you not stayed in it, you wouldn't have found out. You know, we all do other things. We have these, you know, businesses and things we do that we care about. Or getting a PhD. You don't know why you had that yet, but you might find out.

Yeah. And had you not finished, it's the same thing. It's the same principle of like following all the way through and staying with something. It may not feel like it matters as much to us now that we did, but it's probably to me one of the most important parts of what we have done. And for whatever person listening out there, maybe they're a fan of your band, or maybe they're just a music fan and they have this company or this brand or this thing they're trying to do, maybe at school, that they have to stick with. And I think that that part of the story is super important because

I don't know that we give it enough credit with just staying with something that we believe in for 10 years. I don't know how many people that would do that. Yeah. Persistence is a big part of it for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And we definitely were persistent. I think it's a good point.

What you said about how it's easy to tell the story in hindsight and go, well, and then we got signed to epitaph and then we put out smash and then blah, blah, blah. But it's sometimes hard to go back to that moment in time and remember the uncertainty and how uncomfortable that was. not knowing what not only is the band going to make it, which probably won't happen because no bands make it, but what the fuck am I going to do with my life, right? And that's, yeah, it can be a really uncomfortable time, right? And it's easy to forget once things have happened and gone well, that it's difficult in those moments to stay, to keep on going and be persistent about that. When did you start flying after the band made it? We had the money to like actually try and do it. Yeah, well, I mean, actually, I mean, just to be perfectly honest, it costs $5,000.

for flying lessons. Okay. So, I mean, that's not terrible. It'd be more now, but I mean, this was whatever years ago, but, but I mean, that was more money that I made in a year, right? There was no way I was going to take flying lessons, right? And then once things happened with the band, well, we were on tour constantly for, we did 220 shows in 14 months. Yeah. We hit it really hard because we'd go around the U.S. in Europe in clubs, and then it would get a little bit bigger, and then we'd go back and do theaters and, you know, that whole thing. So it took a while until we had any time off. And I thought, you know what I'm going to, I want to get my pilots. license. It's pretty incredible. So did that then. Yeah, well, it's just something I always wanted to do. And I don't know. I think there's something about when you're in a band that and it makes it, which is not supposed to happen, then all of a sudden, it tells you maybe you're not in a good way, like, well, I guess I can do anything then. Yeah. I've done this band, the whole band thing worked out great. What else you got? Right. So I think sometimes in both good and bad ways, but I think it encouraged me to try things that maybe I would have been more reluctant to otherwise. This is just my

experience of you, right? You have a very, like, I don't want to say serious. It feels like a grounded confidence. And it's serious in a way, like, seems whether it's focused or it definitely feels like the quality is like a pilot needs. Okay. Right. If there's a guy and there's something going down, you want that guy to like take the wheel a little bit. Like you have a bit of that. Like, and maybe like, that's part of your your success as a person is a focus or like you know you put your mind to something but when I sit with you I'm like you know what I would fly with this guy I would definitely feel like safe well you got to take it seriously for sure right it's pretty serious business yeah but I once I took a buddy of mine flying I have a jet right and that terrifies me flying oh really I mean I fly

okay you're nervous flyer I'm not as nervous as I was because I I didn't fly until I was 19, so I was late, late to the party on like planes and stuff. Okay. And I'm an okay flyer. I trust it. But to me, for me to be in the cockpit? Yeah. Terrified me.

Okay. I'd be terrified. I'd make a mistake. Well, this guy was really nervous about flying. I knew he was nervous and I knew everything was fine. It was totally going to be fine. And I don't generally take advantage of people like that. But this was, you know, I kind of felt like, I think I got to invest in this a little bit, right?

Yeah. And so because my plane, they call it, single pilot certified, so I don't need a co-pilot. So I'm in the left seat. And I go, come on up, man. Sit in the co-pilot seat. And it makes a lot of people feel better, actually, because it doesn't feel so mysterious. Right.

When they understand what's going on, they can look out the front instead of the side. Like, people go, I'm completely changed. I used to be scared of flying commercial. And now I'm not because I flew on your plane. And I get that actually, because it's kind of like, you know, you remove the curtain to see what's actually going on. But we are taxiing out. I knew he was nervous.

I'm like, you all right? He goes, yeah, I think I'm all right. I go, okay, I go, well. So far so good. And he was just like, what? What do you mean so far so good? I'm like, I'm just kidding. Everything's all right.

Okay. Was it a smooth flight? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, totally fine. How often do you fly? I mean, depends on whether we're traveling or not. Right.

Once a week, once every other week. Wow. That's amazing. What a cool accomplishment. Yeah, I tell people it's kind of like my golf in a way. People have something they're into and that's just something I really like doing. Yeah. I just get a really good feeling about it, even though it's exciting.

in a way it's also calming in a way if you know what I mean just kind of being up there I guess the world moves a little slower yeah and uh and there's also because it requires a focus in a way you forget all the shit in your day it's a meditation and yeah it sounds weird to say meditation because that means to say you're not thinking about it when you actually are but but everything else kind of leaves your mind while you're just doing the flying thing and that's this nice i like that it's also kind of a reminder that like the the science and nature work Yeah. Like you go down your checklist and you go through your process and it's like, yeah, it's very logical in one way, but also very kind of beautiful in a way, you know, you're looking out and seeing like you said nature and stuff. Do you have a favorite plane to fly? Well, I own a, it's called a citation. It's a small business jet. And that's, yeah, that's the one. Love it. Is the same principles for flying a jet, do they cross with like a helicopter? Kind of. Kind of. Would you learn that faster now, you think? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, not to go into it too much. You know, with airplanes, the whole thing is if you don't go fast enough, they're going to, they call it stall. You know, right. You have to be going 100 miles an hour to get off the ground and stuff. So I've taken a couple lessons in a helicopter. I would get the rating. I think it's fun. A lot of guys that fly airplanes don't like helicopters and vice versa or whatever. But right. But the problem with the helicopter is that when he tells you to slow down to hover, it's almost like you have built into your guts. Like you can't go slow in an airplane. Right. So the idea of slowing.

down this helicopter, it goes against every freaking bone in your body. It kills you to slow this thing down, right? So that was kind of the challenge when I took a couple lessons, but I'm sure you'd get over that. Yeah. To not only start offspring and be sitting here today in the offspring, all the hit records, platinum records, all the success, if we don't throw it away as a fluke, right, and we say a big part of that was earned somehow, right? And we actually give you the credit for it of what it takes to show up through all those years that you could have quit a bunch of times. That's the thing, one thing in music with bands, I feel like a lot of people throw away our success as this like luck stick that we got hit with and we're the greatest, it's the greatest life ever and we're just lucky guys. Yes, you and I know

how lucky we are. The same way I know I'm lucky my kids can walk. Like I feel extremely grateful that my kids are healthy. The career that everyone would actually look at and go, that's the luck I have they're missing the luck that we all actually have when we can when we're healthy and and we're not we're not challenged with some of these things that we see other people go through and we're like why did that happen to them right the career is this thing that we showed up for every fucking day for years and years and strung them all together through good and bad through real life you know how many times did we miss stuff in real life. I mean, you know, there's so much stuff you have to go through. And most people say, yeah, easy for you to say, I get that part. But you have to actually show up, do the work,

believe it's possible, hang in there when it's not going well, see it all the way through, all the things. The same way you had to learn how to fly a plane, no one just said, okay, close your eyes. And when you open them, you're going to be able to fly. Yeah. Like you actually had to risk your life. You went up there and however you want to, you see it. I see it. I'm like, to learn to fly a plane, there's a risk involved. I guess. Okay.

Right? To me, there is like, do I want to risk the however many hours? And then you're going and flying on your own the first flight or second flight or whatever until you master it and you become competent. There's risk. Yeah. All of the showing up and the trying and the risk involved to achieve the ultimate, you know, in-game, which is competency and freedom, is the thing that, like, I feel like gets dismissed a lot

as this luck, right? The real luck for me in life is health. For sure. You know, for sure. I mean, I think, yeah, we had a lot of good fortune in the band taking off for sure. Absolutely. But it wouldn't happen if we didn't put in all, it wasn't going to happen for somebody who didn't do all that stuff. Show up. You had to do all that stuff. And not blow it. Yeah. Are you close with your parents? Yeah. So you had a good support system? I think so. Yeah.

I think that's a thing. I mean, my parents, they were supportive of the band, but they kind of hoped it was a phase. Right. You know? Like, yeah, yeah, when are you going to get serious and go to medical school? You know, and I just kind of always kept it around. And then, and then, of course, once it took off,

that, you know, then that totally flips everything. And then they're stoked that you stayed in the band and all that stuff. And so, and I get where they're coming from. Like you said, like he's not going to make it. The kid's not going to make it. right so they're concerned about you it's just 10 year if you if you spend 10 years doing it you know like I think about that with my kid and I'm like what would I say if they were into something that I didn't understand music I kind of understand I could probably help them yeah but if they pick

something like I would be a YouTuber and they did it for 10 years right and it wasn't really I would probably like get really frustrated worried yeah my mom was was confused by it she didn't understand it she was like what are you guys doing and now I understand that. I'm like, I try to think of what, what could my kids pick that I wouldn't understand? Yeah. And I, and then do it for a few years and me think like, oh, they're throwing their life away. How supportive would you be if your kids wanted to start a band? A super supportive. You think so? Okay. Yeah. Well, I feel like it's one thing that I could like affect. Yeah. So I feel like I'd, I'd have a sense of how to help. Yeah. Whereas if they were going to medical school,

I don't know if I could help. Yeah. You know, like, I didn't even know where to start. I'm just saying it's a hard road, the music thing. It's a really hard road. It's a hard road. I don't know if it's a lifestyle. I'd want them to, like, choose. Yeah.

And not just, like, the, you know, drugs or whatever. But it's a tough business, you know? You deal with so many characters. Yeah. I don't know a lot of people that were in bands, and they ended up in some part of the music business that they were still really happy with. So it can definitely turn into a meaningful career, right? Yeah.

That you enjoy. Yeah. Yeah. So, do you think you'd be in and around the music business? Let's say the band didn't work out. think the music business is something you like? No, I don't think so. That's a good answer.

I think I would have gone back to, I would have done the research in the lab and stuff like that. I liked that. I mean, I liked it. I liked it a lot. I didn't love it as much as I loved being in a band, being the singer and all that. But like, yeah, I didn't start a band to be the bass player, right? Yeah, me either.

I want to sing and write the songs, right? That was the thing. So I don't think I could have taken some other thing. I don't know. I just would have found something else. How's the hot sauce? Good. Yeah. Good, good, good, good.

Gringo Bandito? Yeah. I can't believe it's been almost 20 years since I started it. It's amazing. Oh, thank you. Oh, thanks a lot. Yeah. It's just kind of surprise.

They don't expect it to actually be good. It sounds like a, you know, a silly product the guy in the band made or whatever. But actually, you know, I wanted it to taste really good. Yeah. You know, I lived in Southern California my whole life, so I've always loved Mexican food and Latin culture, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And so hot sauce was a part of it.

and just kind of occurred to me one day, like, I should make a hot sauce, you know. It should probably be a better reason than that. But it just seemed like the right. No, no, I actually think that's sometimes the simple joys in life is making something that you enjoy that you can share with other people. Because it's a thing. I mean, like we love hot sauce. Yeah. People love hot sauce.

Hot sauce makes people smile. It does. Right. It wasn't like I want to be in the food business or I want to develop a food product. I thought I wanted to make a hot sauce. I love it. Oh, thank you. Yeah.

Do you have anything else other projects you were? on that you love things like hot sauce? Not really right now. I got a pretty full schedule, right? But I think it's kind of a connection between the hot sauce and a band. It's kind of like you're starting something from scratch. You're watching it grow.

And every little step is kind of cool. Like when you get your band logo, it's cool. And you get my hot sauce label is cool. And so there was just something about that that I really like doing. I love that. Me and my brother are like entrepreneurial guys. Yeah.

But all of it is born out of a love for the thing. You know, like everything we've ever done and that we do is born out of like a real true, like, love for the thing and wanting to share it and do it our way because we think our version will be a little core. You know? Sure. Yeah, yeah. I think it's important. When's the next tour?

Tuesday. Oh, you leave Tuesday? Yeah. Holy shit. You know, we kind of will do like, like last year was a lot of our own touring. And then this year is a lot of festivals. Right. Which, as you know, you're just bopping around all over the place.

Yeah. So we're in Europe. It's only six shows. Oh, that's good. So it was a quick one. Cool. We were just there for a month. That was a longer one.

But this one's quick. But the European festivals are so fun. They are fun. And you get to see different bands you wouldn't normally see and bump into people that you wouldn't normally cross paths with and all that. So it's going to be cool. So a lot of that for the rest of this year. And then once the record comes out, we'll hit it hard next year and do full on the world and elsewhere, as they say in Spinal Tap. Yeah.

It's awesome, dude. Yeah. I'm so happy for you guys. I'm so excited for the record. and I'm really, really happy you came. It's not that many people left that I haven't been able to tell them, hey, that record meant a lot. We started the band.

None of us played instruments, and we were just trying to learn how to be a band. You guys were one of the bands. We looked at and were like, some version of that is what we're supposed to do. So I give it a lot of credit. But I'm so glad I got to actually sit with you. That's awesome. Thank you.

That means a lot. Really. That's really very cool. Yeah, I never expect a comment like that. So it's awesome. Wow. Congrats. Is it cool?

Yeah. All the success. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for the invite. This is really fun. Oh, my God, man. Thank you so much for coming. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of artist friendly.

If you really liked it, you can follow, like, subscribe to the show, anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support. And we'll see you next time.