Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - DPR IAN

Episode Date: October 23, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by DPR IAN. Christian Yu began making music under the moniker DPR IAN in late 2015 as one of the founding members of Seoul’s DPR (��Dream Perfect Regime”) collective, which creates, directs, produces, and edits various multimedia projects for its roster. Having put out two EPs in the last couple of years, DPR IAN has transformed into an unpredictable solo artist whose work blurs together pop, R&B, rock, and electronica with painstaking attention to detail. In a conversation with Madden, the Australian singer, rapper, and director dives into building new versions of yourself, tattoos as intimate memories, and his current THE DREAM REBORN tour. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up everybody? It's Joel. Thank you for listening to Artist Friendly. And you may or may not know, I host a TV competition called Inkmaster, and Inkmaster is back. A new season is now streaming. The OGs and Young Guns are going tat to tat in this epic battle, now streaming exclusively on Paramount Plus. Go to Paramount Plus.com to try it for free. Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is Artist Friendly on. On this episode, I'll be talking to singer-songwriter, rapper, director, Australian-born Korean artist, DPR Ian. Let's go. That's my kind.

DPR Ian, yeah. I was like, let's have them on if we'll do it. I'm glad it worked out. I'm 100%. Thanks for having me, man. It's like I said, it's quite crazy. That's sick. Well, you're from Sydney.

From Sydney, from Sydney, Australia. For 20 some years, has always been like a home away from home for me. Oh, really? I spend a lot of time in Australia. So I have like a good relationship with Australia. Oh, wow. You just go to Sydney or is that? I mean, I've been all over because Good Charlotte, we used to tour quite big there.

And I think we're going to go back like next year or something and do some kind of like, you know, like return. Oh, for real? Because it's been so long. Can you continue with the dates, fella? I will. I will. That'll be so cool. Yeah, it'll be good.

Amazing. So I have a real, like, soft spot for Aussies. Sick. Oh, I love that. That's a good culture to me. Yeah. No, I love that. I love that you say that, man.

Because, yeah, I haven't been back in Australia for a while. I think the last time I went was about two years ago, but that was just for tour and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it's no place other like Australia, you know, so. Yeah, there's no place like it. Yeah. It's a funny place. It's got its personality, you know?

It is. It is. But I just, I have a real soft spot for Australia and it's a place that I will all always feel like connected to. What do you like about it? Can I mind me asking? Is it just, because I don't know the weather out here is kind of quite similar to Australia, isn't it? The weather in L.A. is similar. Yeah. I'm from a small town. Okay. And I feel like it was the first big international place I'd ever been to in 2000 I went and it was my first trip abroad. Oh, wow. for it was for music so on one hand our band it was the first place we were ever like big oh yes and so on our

first record it popped off in australia first right and so there's like a something about that i think meant something to me yeah yeah so it was the first place i had initiated or experienced success in my mind you know yeah like the radio was playing our song oh yeah no i remember and then everyone was really like the energy welcoming oh yes yes they see celebrated it. Oh yeah, 100% man. In America, our first experience was good, but it was a lot tougher. You know, it was a time in music where there was, everything was genreified. I see, I see, and so you were here and you were putting this box and everyone's arguing if you're this or you're that. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I could, oh yeah, right. I completely understand where you're coming from,

actually. Because I remember, because I was definitely one of them, you know, listening to you guys out there. That's cool. Yeah, I still remember. I still remember you guys were everywhere, you know, and I was like, I was still in school, you know. And honestly, where I come from, I come from a place called Wollongongong. Yeah, Willa Gone. Yeah, no, I'm sure you do. And the scene was huge there, you know, the scene of rock and everything was quite big.

So I was always a fan of rock, you know, and I was all into it all types of stuff because I went to a performing art school, you know. That's cool. I started off of a little local band myself, you know. Yeah, you were in like a metal band. Yeah, like a full metalcore band, you know? Sick. Yeah, we went to hardcore metal and stuff. What was your favorite metal coming up or even now?

Just so it was definitely hardcore. Like, it went from punk to, um, to hardcore metal. And like, I love that whole screamer shit. Just heavy shit. It's mad, heavy shit. Yeah, the heavier breakdowns are better. Yeah, for some reason, it progresses more heavily, right? Like, once you start getting into, because in the beginning, I loved alternative.

And then it started progressively getting it. And it started progressively getting heavier and heavier, heavier. And then it went to like grind metal for one second. I just had to step back a bit because everyone was just pig squealing and that was about it. Yeah. But no, it was a good time. It's a good fun time. Love supporting our local artists.

And yeah, I kind of do miss those times a lot, you know. But it's interesting because something about your music now. Yes. It feels like the early love of like heavy, dark. music, yes, informed something about your art. Oh,

wow. Now, like the imagery. Yeah, yeah. The feeling, it's quite like cinematic. Oh,

yes, yeah. There's a deep, dark, heavy core to it. Yeah, that you kind of like, which I actually think,

and the way you present things, even just like down to whether it's how you're dressed, or what you have on stage or like, yeah. There's something that feels like heavy. Yes, okay. And I wonder if the early love of like heavy music, because heavy music does like touch us.

Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't leave. Like something inside of us that heavy music. It doesn't leave you here. My favorite bands. Yeah. Architects.

Oh, the architect. Oh, yes. Bad omens. Oh. Bring me. There's this. There's a bunch of bands that I love that when I listen, it really like comforts this like deep. Right.

Right. It satisfies something. It's like this deep pain or something that I, there's something from that. early formation of your like interest in music yes and the journey you go on as an artist yeah you should like lots of different things oh yes you have to go on that yeah but i feel it in your music now i feel there there is like a heaviness to it interesting and it makes its way out in different ways whether it's imagery or like the structure of something or the sounds you use i like i think there's like something super metal about you wow well you're the first person to say that to me and you're spot on man

you're spot on, that's crazy. I love how you pick that out. You're absolutely right. I've had a dying passion and love for just heavy music, you know. Because like you said, there's something about it that really satisfies something inside of you. Especially, I think, you know, going to my earlier teen years, you know, I was the only Asian in growing up, you know. So for me, it was really wanting to belong.

But, you know, I was just plopped into the scene, to the music scene. And the only way I could ever really kind of find some type of relevance or relation to anyone was through music. And, you know, at that time, it was just peak, like, just middle core music. And it was just going off. And, you know, so I was just kind of, I mean, fortunately enough, I was just plopped into the scene. But it felt some, it felt different, especially going to my first show, just watching the, because we had a youth center that played local bands and be like Doze Friday. Yeah, DIY shows. Yeah, yeah, man.

And there's stuff that they come up with, oh my God. I remember just going in. So immediately, you know, the air is just freaking thick and it's just, you know, sweaty and smelly because they had a pit. And, you know, it was just, but I still remember feeling the energy from that. And I've just never wanted to stop going back, you know, because it was something that I was like, wow. I can feel that.

Yeah. I can feel that in your music now. That's so interesting. You're funny? Yeah, that is crazy. that you point that out and it's it's insane i wonder what part being different from everyone else yeah right um however that's perceived in like you know if you're the only Asian kid yeah right if that's the point of difference in that situation yeah um but we are all different yeah from each other yeah

when our difference is pointed out right when we're in a group of people and we're completely different from them right maybe it's culturally yeah because i really believe that great art and people that are successful at making art and putting it in the world and becoming these characters that lived only in our thoughts. Yeah, yeah, you're right. You know, we look at our heroes, whatever they are. Maybe they're actually comic book heroes. Maybe they're rock stars.

Maybe they're sports stars. As kids, we're kind of taught to get in line. Yeah, that's right. And stay in the group and don't disrupt the group. Yeah, yeah, don't rebel. And we look at our heroes and we see. to imagine like what would I be? Yeah, yeah.

What would my superpower be? What would my music sound like? You're right, you're right. And when we're allowed to do that and we try, yeah. That's how we make it. That's exactly. Try, try, try again. Yeah, yeah.

Sometimes it's supportive parents or sometimes it's that we're alone. Yeah, that's a good point you may. I think it's quite interesting that you say. It's now, you know, it's also maybe that we're alone. I think for one, I definitely had supportive parents, very fortunate enough for that. That's great. Yeah, and like you said, I think it does come from core imagination because in the beginning, for me, it was just really about how do I fit in?

And then it progressively went to where do I see myself in this scene? Because at that time, especially, I don't see any representative that kind of looks like me that's doing this, you know, not to my knowledge anyway. So I just kind of never really saw that side of like someone to idolize and, you know. So everyone that I idolized were like people that were just already huge and, you know, from the States, from Western cultures. And I loved that. And it was such a interesting moment for me because I never really second guessed it or thought of it in a way where my ethnicity was something that was going to be something that might downplay a certain, you know, know, part in doing this music scene.

Just because I've never seen that before, you know. But I think as my imagination grew, it kind of grew into excitement. And in the beginning, it's hard telling your Asian mom like, oh, you know, I want to do like or any mom, to be honest. Anything, you know, I still remember I was playing like some like, some heavy stuff for my mom in the beginning. She's like, so what the heck is this? Yeah.

I mean, granted. But, you know, it was a good moment when she finally understood and she wanted to support me, you know, and just doing whatever I wanted to do. So I think that is kind of what led me to, I think, further grow out my imagination of, like, wanting to do something. I don't even know if it was related to music at the time, honestly, because it was just something that I needed to express. I needed to just get out there. It's a calling. Yeah, a calling, yeah.

You know, it just felt right. Everything aligns and, you know, it just feels like you just have to, your gut feeling tells you to go here. And it just felt so weird. But at that time, you don't really think of it. Like, you're just really in the moment. Well, yeah. I'm gonna, and, like my music, my hair, can be able to be able to continue my rhythm. For so, Potion Nine, of Sebastian Professional,

has all what my hair needs. Nutrition Profunda. Protection contraband. 99% less of rotura and punas abirt. BASO BOTO 9 of Sebastian Professional, the secreto professional of who who are not

they're not things, but of who they're trying you know. Exactly, exactly. So to follow a calling and a feeling at an age when everything else in life

is telling you, do this, go to school, go to college, this is what success looks like to break out of... Yeah, the system. It's... Yeah, man, yeah, yeah. And you guys were all about that too, way.

I was like, that's why I really loved it, you know. I love the messages that especially rock kind of portrays. You know, granted, I feel like punk was definitely something that kind of was like rebellious against order and all that, you know. But I think that's why I had a certain love for heavy and hardcore music because it kind of went against the society, against the norms, and, you know, the stuff they talk about as well, it's really, it gets political at one point. Sometimes.

Yeah, sometimes it gets like that. But I kind of see it. I kind of understand why, because it's the system that they want to rebel against and just want to, they want to be independent, have a free mind, free thinking. So I kind of, I think that's why it kind of related so much to accord to a lot of high school kids, especially in Australia. Because, you know, Australia is very open, very, like, free-minded. People are so nice, you know, people are so nice and kind that it's very just,

it's a very supportive community. On one hand. On one hand. And then there's another side to every coin, right? Of course, there's. And there's old systems, old ideas, old ways. Oh boy. And those two things clash.

I actually like that about Australia is that there is a clash. There's going to always be a new way and a new idea and people trying to reach for new. And there's going to be old. And it's a story as old as time. Right, right, right. Those in power who have been in power a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Those new ideas and thinkers, it's not bad for society, but it can cause, well, it's a lot to talk about.

Yes, there is. So people are always arguing about the issues. Yeah, yeah. But that's why artists make art. Yeah. Yeah, that's correct. I think something that I read somewhere, something that somebody said was like, artists are meant to defy reality.

Yeah. So that's what they're here for. and I get it because it's like you're manifesting your own reality to the world and how you see it because you see it differently and everyone, because everyone sees it so differently

I think that's what makes it unique. It's just how much are you willing to not apologize for it, you know? And I think that's what was really I guess I succumbed to that type of character which it was like, as you mentioned, it was the idea of bringing characters to life and I think that's where I really got a lot of

inspiration because it's like you can be anything in this world, still be you, but you know, at the same time it could hit a different market, it could hit a different crowd and honestly it does shed a lot of your experiences through that ideation of the character. And yeah, that's why I think I really loved about forming this type of, I guess, character into this music, into my artistry. You know, especially because when I went to Korea, that was a bit of a different story. Yeah, what was that like? My God.

Because it was it your first time ever going? Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. And, you know, it was just a sudden decision I decided to make just because I'm Korean and I just didn't know anything about my culture. Right. You know, because I was just, I was brought up in a full, like, Western community and I didn't know anything about my culture. So after uni, I was like, you know what? I want to pack my bags and go to Korea.

My mom gave me like a three months period. I was like, you got to just come back on a whip your eye. I said, I'm like, okay. So I was like, all right. It was another calling. There was another calling. Exactly. Exactly.

That's crazy that you say that. It felt like that for me, you know. I didn't know anything. I didn't plan anything. I just, you know, picked my bags up, just went because I thought it was just what I was meant to do, you know. And when the first, you know, the first month in career, I was just, um, I got scammed and I was living out in the streets, right?

And I was like, that's my first taste of reality because Korea is, like you said, it's the other flip side of the coin from Australia. Yeah. It's absolutely cut throat. Like, it just, it's more than a dog eats dog world. It's like a, it's a very, like, judgmental society. But it's a very unified society. So if one person does, like, one thing that kind of stick.

out. It's more shunned upon than viewed as like unique. Right. By the mass. By the mass. Because again in Korea it's not multicultural it's just all Korean. So you know and if you put in that to account it's really hard for you to stand out and and kind of follow through with that idea without getting it like completely shut down over time. Over time. Over the period of time. And you know me being from Australia just I don't know none of that. So I just kind of, I was, to them, it might have been like very intimidating, but also in the flip side, maybe a breath of fresh air. But I still remember when I went there, I just, I wanted to dance because I was so into dancing as well.

I'll just rock up to like just dance studios. I'd be like, can I just dance with you guys? And they'll just be like, that's not how it works. That's not how it works, right. There's a system to work. There's a system. Yeah. And, you know, in Korea, we have hierarchy systems.

So the elders would be just on top of the youngest. So like there's a whole hierarchy thing. You have to earn your spot. Every way up. Yes. Through time and effort and all the things. Through time and effort. And those years and those numbers are not kind.

I'm telling you, like five years making coffee. No matter how good you are. No matter how good you are. So if you walk in the door and you're better than all these people naturally and you've worked from Australia, you come and I've already put. put in the time, put in the effort, I've achieved my own mastery of this thing, dance or whatever else it is. And I walk into an environment where everybody else has seniority. I'm not actually going to get credit for the work I did back there. I have to start over. You have to start over.

And it doesn't make sense. You have to be silent. Okay. Because if you do, you know, if you, if you do be a bit loud about it, most likely you're going to be the most hated, you know. Right. Yeah. And you stick out. Yeah, and your living conditions is just going to be so hell after that. So it was a very eye-opening moment. It's also humbling, but especially during that period of time. I don't know what it's like now, but back then it was very, very to the point where you had to go through a process, a system, you know, stages. And, you know, seeing that, I just didn't, I didn't really like it, to be honest, because I thought, you know, if you were good and if you had that talent and you, you know, if you had that talent and you.

If you had that voice, I thought it should be more empowering. People should more empower people like that. But the whole idea of like free ideas and free speech of doing what you want was censored to a certain extent because not by force, but... Yeah, it was a general way. It was a general way. Of living. Exactly.

I would say, no, I don't want to cut you off. But as you go, I like to unpack things. Yes, please. wouldn't you say that the great art and culture that's coming out of Korea right now, wouldn't you say that it was born out of that and that there's always going to be a response? Yeah. The natural way things work is things evolve. Yes.

And with each generation, we question how they did before. Actually, you're right. The thing I think we have to look at is what is good about that? and then what can we test? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's our job is to pressure test everything that's put before us. And the walls that don't break are actually walls that work. Yeah.

And the walls we break through are actually shortcuts to a better way, right? Right, right. And there is some natural order of like people in society and like the human group. Yeah. Evolving together and finding better ways, right? Like new things in medicine get denied for a lot. long time until everybody actually sees like, oh, this is working. Yeah. Yeah. People are living longer. Right, right, right, right. Going back to art, though, it's undeniable that Korea has a real influence on

the world. Oh, yeah. Today, where 20 years ago, you might argue, it wasn't as big an influence. Right, right. So there's this like cultural, artistic revolution or trend of people expressing themselves. You're right. You're right. Because real art is people. people connecting over an idea that we agree on or that strikes us. That makes us feel something that we need to feel. Yes. Yes. So whatever you had to go through coming from a foreign place to a place that you had always probably dreamed about, I wonder what it's like, being Korean.

Yeah. And then coming home and coming into an environment that challenged you. Yeah. Yeah. I think that broke my barriers for sure. I think you're right. And you didn't quit. No, I didn't. I would say that's the most important part. Yeah, yeah, actually. A loving parent challenges you, right?

So in some way that environment, as hard as it was, as judgmental as you might have felt, also raised you to be resilient. Exactly. And test it again and try again. Because I would say you're sitting here because of it. Yes, you're spot on. Yeah, absolutely spot on. You're spot on.

It's a thought that I always come back to. Yeah, you're right. I feel that. Yeah, you're exactly spot on, man. yeah it's just it's a thought that I always come back to it's like um man after all of that would I ever want to go back through that again well no but yeah but no but then had I not you're right had I not uh would I would I have the same trail of thought or would I still be the same person as I am today and if I look at who I am today am like happy with it and I am yeah it's cool

yeah and I think it's it's brilliant that you bring that up because um yeah your experiences really do make you who you are if it didn't kill you if it doesn't kill you if it doesn't kill you You know, thank God. You know, but like that's a real thing. It's like the natural test. Yeah, it is a natural test. How high can I climb? Exactly, exactly.

If I fall, that was as high as I could climb. That's exactly right, yeah. If I lose my footing, that's one thing. But if I keep trying, it kind of breaks batteries, yeah. And I sit here with someone that I see is very experienced. It's not just music. You have like, for success in life, it's not just music. Oh, yes, yes.

We have scars. Yes. You're wearing a lot of scars. Yes, yes. You get tattoos to remember something. That's correct. Because it hit you some way or you're holding onto it or you're hoping for it, whatever it is. But these are scars.

We're covered in them. Yeah. And that's like a life well lived is experience. It's an experience, yeah. And you're sitting here as a young guy who's experienced as much as an old guy. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

That's pretty cool. Yeah. But it's hard. It is hard. I appreciate it, man. I appreciate it. Yeah, I think especially. Going back to the tattoo thing, you're right, I do log it as if it's like a diary entry, you know.

I can see. Yeah, it brings you back to that certain time, that certain moment. Yeah. And I still remember how I felt because I usually get tattoos just based on certain high and the extreme low moments. Yeah, yeah. Me too. Same. Highs and lows. Perfect. Highs and lows. Always. Always. Always. And I think that's what would compel you to do it, you know? Like that would be the one thing to compel you to do something like that. And I honestly look back at a lot of these moments and especially the tattoos and I'm like, man,

I have lived quite a fruitful life, you know, and I still have many years to go, of course. But I do always say I have to always be grateful for it for sure, you know. And like you said, it could have been worse, I think. I think it always could have been worse. For all of us. Yeah, for everyone, you know. Korea was definitely one place that taught me a lot of resilience, as you mentioned. had I not, I think I would have been way more naive, way more clueless and a little less

deeper than what I would be, you know. And I think it's so funny because it ties into the heavy metal and the rock music that I've so passionately loved. I think that's also like one essence that kind of kept me like sticking through those all those hard times, especially in Korea. Because I went through the whole idol process as well. Yeah, and how was that? Oh boy When I tell you My world was flipped around It was flipped around

Because I went to a I went into the K-pop scene I went from metal to K-pop Right So it was like a It was just like a Well for one I went into it

Because I wanted to Hit a target audience Just so I can start Creating my own movement Which would later be DPR But initially it was just I thought If you became a K-pop

up idle. Like you just immediately gained some type of like attention. You immediately gained some type of crowd. And I wanted to use that crowd to fuel what I wanted to do independently later. So it was a shortcut in in terms of thinking. Actually though, if again, like I just like to comment as you go because I find it really interesting. I think a young guy who's aiming up and goes, how do I get to the mountain, this is my vision. DPRE in, right? Even if you saw that back then. Yes. And you're going, like, what's my route here? Yeah, yeah. You're always going to try to get somewhere as quickly as possible, which is smart. It's survival. Another experience, though, that I think, like, you wouldn't be here if you hadn't done that. Oh, yeah. And that's, like, what's interesting about, like, effort.

We think we want a certain result now. When I go, that's what I'm going to do. That's what I'm going to and the result is going to be this. I'm going to be this. I'm going to be whatever, rich, famous, this, whatever at the time we think we need, right? So we put forth the effort in the idea and the strategy we run and it's honest. Want to succeed is honest.

Yeah, yeah. And then on the other side of it, we may not get a result we wanted, but we don't understand at the time that's the result we needed to get to where we actually should be. And however long it takes is how long it takes because there's an organic side to like natural growth. Yeah. It's a bit of paradox, isn't it?

To be the artist you are. Yeah. Because you're a artist. Yeah. But if you were just a copy and paste. Yeah. True. That's a different road.

Yeah. It's not as winding. Right. Interesting. Would you ever say for yourself personally that you know how you've, you kind of always seek and you always chase and there's a limit? Always. You don't think that's ever ended for you as well. Interesting.

I don't know a life that's worth living if you're not. You're chasing. Seeking. Seeking. Being called. Right, right. Like this show is a calling. Yeah.

I started it not knowing why. I was like, I don't even know who's going to talk to me. Yeah. But I felt compelled. Wow. To like have, because these conversations, we have them backstage. Yeah. If we meet each other for the first time at a dinner.

True. Or we're at a party. Right. Or we're at a friend's house. Like, you know, entertainment, music, art. We mix it up. So we're talking to like all kinds of artists. Right, right, right.

And everybody has like a unique perspective of the journey of becoming a real artist. Yeah. So there's a lot of people out there that want to, they have talent or inspiration, but they don't have whatever it was that pushed you out. Yeah. That you said, I'm going to do this. Right, right. I'm going to be me. Yeah.

All right. We'll be right back. We have a commercial. Hey, what's up? Artist-friendly listeners. as you know, or maybe you don't know, I host a TV competition called Inkmaster, and a new season is now streaming.

The OGs and Young Guns are going tat to tat in this epic battle now streaming exclusively on Paramount Plus. Go to paramountplus.com to try it for free. And I think that's actually the story. It's like the hero journey to be yourself. Yes, you're right. That's crazy. I love what you're saying.

man it just aligns with everything that's why i like you so much yeah i think you stand out oh thank you i was excited to talk to you because i was like yeah i want to i i love meeting artists and hearing the journey because everyone that likes you all your fans yeah they need to hear it so that they can do it yes you know whether it's going to college or yeah starting a business or or health yeah they need to have the confidence well to go forward yeah and to aim up yeah and that's That's the overarching theme is you weren't aiming down. No. And you're not still.

I see your art. You're reaching more. I want more. I want bigger. It's funny because the metal is somewhere in the DNA of what you do and it comes out. Right. Everywhere. And I can feel it as a heavy music fan.

Like there's a, there's a, there's always going to be a dark sadness to life. Yes. It's a pain and suffering for all of us. Yes. None of us get away from it. Right. The artists who sing and acknowledge the pain, they help people. Because a lot of people want to just dismiss and escape from pain.

That's true, that's true. But artists, sometimes we sit in it. Yeah, yeah. And then we paint. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. I think it's important.

I agree with everything you say, man. It's crazy. I think I was in that moment of space where I was trying to find, I think, some type of ground as well, you know, because I think more times than not, I sometimes feel like I'm not grounded because, just because I think I've lived a life where I've always had to uproot myself and, you know, constantly move. And I'm sure, I'm sure it must have been a hell of a lot of like that for you as well. But yeah, we're a bit, we're all a bit travelers, all a bit wanderers. Yeah, yeah. And, um, you know, like, I think, like you mentioned, I think in the beginning, I was, um, I kind of

made music, right, and I kind of had to express myself really out there because I needed to I needed to say something, you know, because I needed to also dismiss like something that I felt and, you know, going on with this certain disorder I had and it was just something that I needed to really get out to the world. Was it like a mental health? Yeah, yeah, because I had, I have bipolar and then the whole bipolar thing was like such a curveball, especially when it hit me in middle school that I was yeah it was um you know because that's that's that's that's why I only know extreme highs and lows um but for me it was just I've lived really relatively well with it during my whole life until I started facing like those um those big moments where it tipped my world upside down and

you know people saying no and you know for the first time I was like I felt like I just had no control of what I was doing and you know everything just felt like it was a line and it was a line and and then it just got disrupted. So I think it was, I needed to exert a lot of that frustration, that force, everything that was just packing in inside, you know, it was just about to blow up. Yeah, it's like a therapeutic exercise that you've discovered almost naturally through living. Through living. And then through art, you know, and then I, in the beginning I was like, okay, so I might do this for myself.

Well, you needed to. Yeah, I needed to. You needed to. I think as I progressively kept coming out with it, like the second album, I realized it wasn't for me anymore, you know. I realized it was for the people out there that kind of needed it for me. And it was kind of, it was another realization I had. I was like, okay, so this isn't just about me anymore.

No, no, yeah. Imagine how many people out there are going through the experience of suffering something they can't control. He didn't ask to be. Right. None of us has to be born. I've struggled at times with mental health around PTSD. Oh, yeah.

They had a very traumatic early childhood. I see. And then there's anxiety and there's all that depression, things like that, that are all symptomatic of when you suffer trauma. But for the longest period of time, I didn't even know. I just felt bad. Oh, wow. And so you think how long is someone going through the experience

that you learned about yourself and then you started to, to take care of it. So it's a real thing. Right, right. How many people are still wandering through it. Yeah. And all they have is your music. Right, right.

And then your music kind of helps them discover there's a way forward. There's a way forward, yeah. There's a way to coexist with it, you know. I think it also, yeah, and it's like you mentioned, it kind of also helped me understand how to coexist with it, just by putting it out there. I think initially, though, I was very somewhat also, skeptical about, for example, my whole

artistry is based on the characters that I become when I go to these extreme lows and highs. That's dope, by the way. It's fucking dope. I appreciate it, man. But in a sense, by putting a name to it, for example, by calling these, now calling out these characters and projecting a name into it,

am I giving it too much power is in another sense? Am I giving it to the power that, it unnecessarily doesn't need, you know. And I think in the beginning I was really skeptical of that because I knew the route that I was going down, had I once now put a name to these personas that I become...

Yeah, like am I not bringing it to life now? Kind of like Frankenstein, you know? You are delving into like uncharted territories, you're creating a monster, you're going into gray area, and it was kind of like, oh man, I wonder what will become of me. and second of all, like, I wonder if it's going to worsen the situation of my disorder.

But then I was like, you know what? Like, screw it, you know, you only live once. Called. Yeah, it was called. It called. It called. It was the calling, you know? Actually, one of the first demos I made was called The Calling.

Because it's sad, you know. Some to it. Yeah, something to it. I feel you as someone who's called to do things and he just goes and does it. Yeah. And you could look back on the K-pop experience. you could criticize it and try to pick it apart as like, what did I do right? What did I do wrong? Was it good? Was it bad? I don't think we're supposed to do that. I think we're supposed to let the acorn become the oak tree. Yeah. Yeah. The weather is the weather. Yeah. The environment is the environment and the animals that come and, you know, so I think if you keep listening to the calling of what you feel, the question is that why do you have so many fans? You have a lot of fans. Why do you have so many fans? Why do you have so many fans?

It's not how you dress. Certainly they like it. Yeah, yeah. We do have our own styles. We express ourselves and people agree, but it's something else. It's a connection around something. Yeah, it's the energy. Likely the experience you went through. Interesting. And you expressed your experience and you keep doing it through art. Yeah. The characters, the dance, the way things look, the storyline, you're, you know, all of it. It sums up. this experience we all go through. And I think that's why music matters. You wouldn't have so many fans.

Yeah, yeah. I think it glued everything together, right? Like, it brought everything into one piece. You're right, it's quite an interesting thing because you don't really think much of it when you're in the process, right? And then I think it's moments like when you're going on offstage and, you know, you're walking to the bus

and then you have fans come up to you. And then I think it was just moments like that when you finally get to hear the words from the people that are supporting your stuff and you are changing lives for that matter. And I think hearing that was such a crazy experience because initially I didn't know what my artist here would project and what it would do. Obviously I had a certain idea of what I wanted it to do. But I think it was the first time hearing that experience. that kind of made everything worth it. So the whole idea of like, oh, I'm so reluctant to make this into a name and to project this into actual character kind of all went away because it became worth it after that point. And I was like, okay, so this is why I'm doing it,

you know, so this is the real reason. And like you said, the calling, it's quite a fascinating term that I think I've, for me, I'm more recently into this thing. And because I have a friend who's really religious and he would always say like it's it really does identify as the calling

you know it'll be it'll be a term that people would use biblically as well yeah and it's

it's kind of like I now kind of come to a point where I'm like am I have to treat myself like the messenger I gotta find something as

yeah I got to see the value bigger than myself yeah and I think that's when I started to finally be able to let go

of all the spite the anger you know, kind of understand what it means to give without wanting to feel like you need anything back. Right. And I think from that point on, everything became a lot more clarified. Yeah. Yeah, and, you know, that's only just recently happened, to be honest, you know.

And I feel way more light and, you know, and hearing your words even now, I think it couldn't have come at a better time, you know. That's great. Yeah, so I appreciate it, man. I really do. I think a lot of times our first idea is our best idea. And we'll talk ourselves out of it. Right? One too many.

I think that you have a really interesting perspective. And I think that that's really valuable. Thank you. And I think if you continue to be yourself and you just resist the fear of the rules that you'll continue to grow. and yeah, certainly in music, however you want to measure the metrics of success of music, right? That's one thing. But then there's also just the journey of like the person

who's an artist, who's making art and sharing with the world their perspective and their experience coming from how you grew up, and dealing with bipolar, dealing with these things that everyone's dealing with. Yeah, yeah. We're just not all allowed to really talk about it Right.

In such a way. Yeah, that's true. And it's important to create things that capture people's imaginations. Yeah. Because they live with it every day. Right, right. That's why they want to come meet you after the show, because this is their only chance to tell you what this is meant to me the last year or two or however long. And I think that's important.

That is important, yeah. And you don't always get to talk to them. Right. You don't get to, yeah, exactly. Yeah. But the fact that it struck them like that is it says it all. So what do you think, what do you like the future for you from right now as you look out at the next chapter? Yeah.

What does that look like? I think for the longest time, it was just all about going and going going, like, you know, just point A to point B. And it wasn't even like, okay, like I'm just kind of in the hopes that it would happen. I just kind of in my mind, I always think it's going to happen, you know? So I'm sure you know this too. Yeah, yeah. I feel like you would be exactly the same. Yeah.

Like you just know. So then I realized more times than not, I was becoming less excited about it. Right. You know, because it wasn't really the process that I was enjoying. It was the process just, I feel like, tagged along and came with it. So I think more times now I'm trying to be a little bit more present, you know, in everything that I do. So, because, you know, every second that passes doesn't really come back. And for me, I think that's the beauty in it.

And I want to be a lot more present in the things that I do, meaning I want to savour in a lot of these moments. Like, even just talking with you right now, it's just, for me, it's magical right now. That's tough. I don't even understand. Like, it's crazy right now. So that's just the one thing that I kind of wanted to hold on to going into the future, for one. And ever since I really started trying to do that, I think. I think I started having more excitement in not just work.

Because I think I was just too much of a workaholic where I just always will put that priority, which is why I've always had like a tough love life. And, you know, because... Yeah, you've struggled to have long-term relationships because of the time and effort it takes and investment. Yeah, and the values. Like, I know I love somebody, right? I know I know I want a good relationship, but I don't know if it was me just being too ambitious with what I wanted to do and what I thought I needed to, what I needed in terms of what environment and it had to be, what it had to be in a certain way for me to go faster.

Right. So it was really just about pushing the process faster or better, you know. So you hope to have a relationship. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's good. Yeah, like, you know, family. Yeah.

I do, my values have changed in a way where I do want a family and I just want to be sitting at the dinner table with my team. Just be looking at our stuff that we've done and, you know, just having good laugh and conversation about it, you know. Yeah. Just bringing friends and family together. That's one of my core values now, to be honest. That happens with age.

That does. Yeah. Maybe I'm getting on. No, no, I think there's age and experience, right? So it could happen at a different age for everyone based on their experience. I think you have a lot of experience. Oh, right. I think you've probably given some relationships a go.

Yes. And you get experience. There's a time. Yes. There is a time for work. Yes, yes. And this is a young man's game. Right.

So they say make hay when the sun shines. Yes. Doesn't mean you can't have a relationship. And you should try. Yes. And you likely will have success in the right relationship. Right. when you find a person who understands, but also cares more about you than that.

Interesting, yeah. It finds its way. If you just recognize that you want it. Right, right. Because my wife, who's also an entertainer, we found each other at a specific time. Where it was the right moment. We loved each other enough to work through all the difficulties of what that meant in those early stages. And then we got older.

Right. We had kids. Yeah. And we have a family. been together a long time. But it was a real natural process of give and take. I see. Would you say when you found her though, you were in that moment of wanting to find someone like that or it was just or it wasn't like that, just came out of the blue? I think I always wanted it. You always wanted it. But I didn't know if it was possible because I came from a broken family where a successful marriage is

impossible. So life had told me that doesn't really work out. And so my predisposed position, position on that was my stance on it was that doesn't really work out. Yeah. But I knew deep down that all I really wanted was a safe place with a family and stability. Yeah. And then I met this amazing person. So cool. And we became friends. And it was romantic from the begin. Yeah, yeah. But I liked her more. It's weird. I liked her more than I loved her at first. I see. Interesting. And then it grew. Yeah. And of course I love her and I like her. But it took time, man. It took life experience.

It was not always smooth. Interesting. Because my life was chaotic. Yeah. You know how it is. You have a lot of people to answer to. You have all these fans. You have art you still want to make.

Yeah. Things you want to accomplish. Yeah. You have to do that. Yeah. It's finding someone who also has that for themselves. Right. In their own life, whatever that is.

Right. Doesn't mean they have to be an entertainer. Yeah. Yeah. but their own dreams. Right. And they kind of almost have to feel like they could grow together over time. Interesting.

And they have to want you to live your best life. Interesting. And you have to want them to live their best life. And then somewhere you just keep growing together. Oh, wow. Weird. Yeah, that's quite interesting. So she's kind of changed your perception of that.

She completely changed my life. Change your life. I love that. Love that. She's why I got into therapy. Yeah. Because she liked me, but she was like, I think you have some, she's like, I think you're depressed.

Like, I'm not depressed, you're depressed. Yeah. And then I was like, she's like, no, I'm not being mean. I'm saying like, I love you. I want you to like get the best out of yourself. And to her, the value of me was not my platinum records or the thing, the Good Charlotte thing. She liked it. She loved it.

But that wasn't why she liked me. Wow. And then she was like encouraging me to take care of myself. I wasn't taking care of myself. I was probably drinking too much. I was dealing with everything the wrong way. Right. And she was like, I'm not judging you, but I want you to like reach for better.

Right. And you listen to it. And I listened to it. That's amazing. Yeah. And then it did change my life. Wow. I'd say like taking care of my personal growth.

That's so cool. Was just as important as my career growth. That's inspirational, man. That's really inspirational. You know, I think you get to live life once. Yeah. And you only get to be you. That's true.

true. Only once, yeah. Which is what I see you doing. Yeah. You're being you. Yes. And what's that mean? Well, we'll find out. You got to reach. You got to reach. Yeah. And you got to try. You got to keep going. It doesn't mean that everything we try, we look back on a reggae. I'm so glad I did that. Yeah. But we also can't hate it. Because somewhere in us is a kid who believes things are possible and isn't afraid to try. And the older we get, the more we listen to everyone else. Yeah. The cooler we get. Yeah. Yeah. Right. No. I wouldn't show. you a picture of me when like a school picture and go this is the version of me i want you like i'm dressed how i want to dress now yeah yeah i know about shit i didn't know about yeah yeah that's a part of me

but actually the kid who had the imagination is still the same kid that's drawing up right right right you know when you look at your stage you look at these elaborate things yeah that same kid is still dreaming that up yeah yeah yeah so you have to bring them along somehow yeah and like yeah protect him a little bit It's so interesting that you say that. I've always tried to find that kid that I used to be when I was that age. I think it was a moment where I was like, okay, I feel like I've lost that kid at a certain point. I think that was during my K-pop era. But then it was just that need for wanting to bring that version of me back to life

because I knew how I was like back then, you know, no boundaries, no limits, just literally what I wanted to draw and what I wanted to paint. And I didn't know there was so much value in that until I felt like it was missing, you know. Yeah, well, the world tells us it's not valuable. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And yeah, that's why it was, yeah, be yourself, be you. That was also actually one of my motives. And it was something that I kind of heavily am still trying to learn even to this day, you know.

It's a lifelong. It's a lifelong. It's perpetual. Yeah. Do you think that part of you is on board? because there's also the idea that like we do sometimes do things that that part of us we deny it. Yeah. And we're, and it's not all the way on board.

Yeah. And maybe we're doing something that we don't, that we shouldn't be doing. Yeah. Now we go through an experience and there's value to every experience. Oh, yeah. But like we get back to where we feel that part of us is fully integrated and like participating. And that's kind of like for me, the goal is to keep the childlike curiosity. the creativity

as corny as other people might go like it might sound corny but I actually think that that's the superpower that is that you're right man that's crazy wow it's insane it's insane yeah that's amazing man

it's a good part it's the superpower part that I also think it is a big part and it's also yeah that's which is why I've always tried to climb back into that mode and I think we naturally become like that when we get creative, right? Like, it's, it doesn't become, like, all of a sudden, like, outside talk or outside

opinions and everything that kind of barrages you and changes your perception of everything. It just solemnly comes from you and what you want to do. And I've always said, like, you should never apologize for that. And that's what I try to tell my fans as well, because you are you, and that's why you're unique and that's why it's you special. So why would you ever want to change? And why would you ever need to? you know, for something or somebody else.

Man, yeah, I appreciate everything you say, man, because it's like, it really does align with everything that I've been going through and I've been kind of thinking about and to state where I'm in, you know, you know, just hearing from a veteran from you like you, I think it does help me put everything in order a lot, you know. I certainly have a long way to go, but I think it's very inspirational, you know. You've definitely known, you're so insightful. your mind. It's so amazing how your mind works. I just feel very compelled to encourage artists

to be the best version of themselves. This is a tough, tough career choice. You could also just be making music in your garage if you wanted to and just enjoying your little songs. But you didn't choose to do that. You chose to go out and show yourself what you could do, but also in inspire people and and that's an important thing you're doing not just the music if i ever get the chance to sit with anyone i don't want to waste words yeah no if i can give them any insight i've learned over 45 years uh because i'm 45 i've had my different chapters of my career and i think i'm in the best chapter right it's a different version interesting interesting i don't i don't go i don't tour year year round right good charlotte's making a record right now but we haven't made a record in seven years

starting. And we might not make another record for seven years. You know, like, I'm in a different place. Yeah. And if I could give you something to take with you to make your trip easier, to help you enjoy it more, and to get you somewhere faster, then I'm going to, because that's what we're supposed to do. I also just think, I only have people on this show that I'm interested in, because I think they're interesting. I appreciate it. And they're doing something cool. Yeah. You know, and I want to, like, see behind the curtain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And see, like, what's going on.

And I can see why you're successful. I can see why you have so many fans. I can see why you're successful. And if anything, I want to encourage you to keep doubling down on that. Okay. Thank you. So that you be noted. Reach the height you want to reach.

Yeah. Because there's no limit to, I think, what we can do with art. Yeah, no, absolutely. And you never know who you're touching. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's really interesting, man. Would you say like where you are at now was like somewhere you would have been,

you could have imagined you would have been when you're in your 30s, like just mentally? I could have only hoped. Yeah. I think my 20s was spent succeeding. I see. And it all felt like it was a dream. A dream. Oh, okay.

So you don't really, you don't really kind of process that? It was hard to process in real time. I bet it was. And I had to unpack it in my 30s. Oh, okay. And it made me. but it made me better. When I realized, like, it wasn't a lottery.

I worked really hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have some value. There's something about me that's special. I see. I had to, like, actually hold that. I see. Because I think coming from poverty,

I went into success feeling like someone gave it to me. I see. Instead of that I imagined and worked hard. And in my 20s, we had, you know, all these hit records, this, this thing, went on the ride. And by 30, I had just been working for 12, 13 years nonstop. And I had met my wife.

And I was like, I could feel the next chapter. I was trying to make sense of all of it. I see. And so I had to like start making room for myself to take care of myself. I see. Started going to therapy. So that's kind of when that all started. Yeah.

And I started growing in a different way. I see. But the success was, I'm not labeling it as bad. I grew in other ways. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I think we always have to just keep looking at where we're not growing. Right. If we can, it's a process, you know.

But to think at 45 I would be married, I have two teenagers. I have a home life that I love that feels very stable, which I never had. Right. I aimed at it and I tried. Wasn't perfect along the way. Yeah. Because sometimes we want to get out of the moving car. Yeah.

All right, right. Like, oh, this is freaking me out. I'm more comfortable in chaos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. More comfortable in discomfort. And for a long time, I believe the lie that had to be unhappy to make good art

or to do good things. That's not true. This is not true, isn't it? You have to be yourself to make good art. Mm. Damn. And do good things that you want to do. So if you're living a life that's not actually yours,

you're not going to be connected to it. Yeah. But the more and more you dig in on who am I? Yeah. What do I want to say? And if you're patient and you listen, it'll come to you. Likely not as long. It won't take as long as you think when you can tune in.

But I do think that like we have to go on our own journey to find out what it means to be us. Yeah. To believe what we believe. Yeah. And then decide who we listen to and why. Yeah. And we have to feel it. Yeah.

I think feeling it for sure. But that's led you on your whole. whole journey, yeah, the gut, you know, something about it, you know, just like you said, the calling. It definitely, it definitely does strike something in me. Especially with everything you're saying, I think it's definitely very enlightening for me because I think one of the thoughts I've always had was, I feel like, yeah, my 20s was quite a, it was a bit chaotic, so I couldn't process it. And now that I'm in my 30s, I'm still trying to process it. But, for the, you know, For some reason, I'm in a more better place for me to allow myself to kind of unravel it.

But I've always wanted, like, kind of what I think your life is right now. You know, how you have kids, you know, you're at a better place, stabilized, grounded, you have family, you know, you've got your work, career. It's everything kind of is starting to align. And I've always imagined, like, I've always wondered if it would happen like that, if it would naturally. Because just because I wanted it, I want that so bad. there was also a notion in me where because I've never really experienced it or I've never really felt that. I didn't know how possible it would be, you know, because like you said before, I think I was more prone on the idea of things not working out in terms of relationships.

Yeah. Just things like can work out to a certain extent, but I don't know anything beyond that. Like I don't know if it would, I don't know what that would look like, you know what I mean, like especially with just knowing me yeah you know none of us do so i guess it's just like uh something too i think you're doing it oh yeah i think you're looking towards it yeah and it'll appear and it'll appear you know like you won't find something if you're not looking for it no you're right and it's not in your mind as like oh this will happen yeah and i think it'll unfold if you stay true just stay true to yourself take care of what you're you know i think you're doing important

things. You got to keep doing it. And it'll unfold. I think you're inviting it in. You'll become more and more inclined to look for people that are inclined to that as well. So I think you're on the path exactly where I was, probably at your age. Yeah. I appreciate that, man. Sick. Sick. Thanks for coming. No, thank you, man. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. if you really liked it, you can follow, like, subscribe to the show, anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support and we'll see you next time.