Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. What’s left to be said about Johnson that hasn’t already? He became a formidable name in the WWE throughout the late ’90s and early 2000s before transitioning into the world of film. Since then, he’s seen intense success that’s led to a slew of memorable movies (The Other Guys, Moana). Most recently, he starred as the titular character in Black Adam — a passion project that “disrupts the superhero genre” — as well as Red Notice and Jumanji: The Next Level.  He also recently launched a new skincare line called Papatui. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up everybody? I'm Joel Madden and this is artist friendly. On this episode, I'm talking to actor, producer, entrepreneur, and wrestling legend, Dwayne Johnson, also known as The Rock. We'll be talking about a bunch of things, including his new skincare line, Papatouille, which is now available exclusively at Target. Let's go. How long were you touring for? I toured from we started when we were 15 right left home we were 17 and then we were just kind of we were traveling touring trying to make it work and then by 19 I was on the road full time full time and then I retired when I was 35 what a run man so I didn't retire retire we still make records every five years. We'll go do like a world tour or something. Right. But not like 10 months a year. That was a grind. It's a grind. Right. It's like the wrestling schedule. Yeah. It's the same thing. There's no off-season. Yeah. You're just going. Yeah. And we probably wrestled in the same venues that you guys played too,

I'm sure. Yeah. Same venues, same arenas. I imagine it's the same thing. You're killing time all day before the show. Yeah. Doing press. Go into some radio station or promoting the whole thing. And then that hour a night, hour and a half a night is the, that's what you do it for. Nothing like it. That's the magic. That's it. That's a connection. And then did you find that, did you run two shows in the same town often or three shows

or after the show you were on to the next town? Most of the time you're out. Us too. You're packing up. We were doing five or six shows a week. Wow. Five or six cities in. Yeah.

Yeah. And we had like a six day, one day off. That was like our rule because we were just so. Have to. Yeah, you spend money when you're sitting, you know, when you're paying for the whole tour and you have trucks and you have all that stuff. Right. And we were always kind of like impoverished in the way that I think we were afraid not to work.

Yes. So you just have to get after it. Because you think it's going to go away. Yeah. So you say yes to everything. Yes, man. Do everything you can. Yes.

Which is good in some ways. Right. But in other ways you could run yourself. I think we ran ourselves into the ground a little bit. I mean, we had multiple years where we did 330 shows a year. Oh, shit. For like five years straight. Wow.

Yeah. So we would do back then 230, 240, 240 a year, which is a lot, right? Or what you're doing. Right. But you got, I mean, still, you know, it's performance, performance. Mm-hmm. You know, our matches would last maybe. It all depends anywhere between 10 and 30 minutes.

But you're getting surprising. injuries. Right. We're trying not to get injuries. You know what I mean? Doing our best. But same thing like you guys. We would pack up after the show and then just go to the next town. But over 300, that's hardcore. Many years of that. We shouldn't have done that. I mean, we overtored markets. We did all that. But we were so afraid that it's all going to go away. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the hunger and drive part of it. Yeah. You know what's crazy dude is my old man was a pro wrestler like back in the 80s. Yeah. It's almost like, remember the wrestler, Mickey Rourke, that movie.

Like that, had it not been, for the grace of God, that I was able to take care of my mom and dad, like that, we would have ended up like that. There's not a lot of glory back then. No, but my point was those guys were doing over 300 dates a year, like you guys, and running into the ground. Yeah.

And it was fucking nuts back then. When you come from nothing, you just, it's like if you're, so my dad, I had a very complicated relationship with my dad, he left when I was young, but he was a good, guy. I always liked him. Yeah. But he had a lot of stuff. He didn't know how to work out. Mm-hmm. You know, alcoholic, regi-holic, old school, tough guy.

My dad, too, man. You know, and it was a different generation. They didn't have the access to tools that we have. Like, now you can go on an app and get a therapist. Like emotional tools. Yeah. Yes. Like the toolbox has grown now where we can figure it out pretty quickly. Yes. And we're also in a generation of guys, I think, that talk. more how we feel stuff yeah yes or what we're feeling or what we're going through so like my dad your dad wasn't about that right like i had a really complicated relationship with my old man too as well alcoholic same thing and i like you like my dad a lot and and i really started to understand especially once he passed away yeah he passed away in 2000 like i'm sorry 20 20 20 suddenly so i never

had a chance to say goodbye me too um you too same thing 2019 gone wow and we had a really nice 10 years together. You did. Like we had a nice relationship. He hadn't worked out everything, but he had evolved enough to see that we had worked some stuff out. Yes. And we bonded in a way that was really nice. And so we were, we had made our amends and our peace. So it was really, we were in a good place. But so I was really sad when he, when he passed away. Because your friend passed away then. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, man, I'm sorry. Can I ask you what he passed away from? Uh, alcohol. Yeah.

Yeah. So did he ever get clean? No. No. He never did. Yeah. And that's what I was saying is that generation, they just worked until they died. That's it.

Yeah. He worked in a shipyard. Never wanted anything from me. Yes. I literally could only buy him a couple things. Yes. And that was it. Like he couldn't give the, I bought him an old car.

Yeah. And he's like he'd always loved 65 Impala's the bottom of an old car. Could give that back. I was like, you can't give this back. He wanted to, though. Yeah. Bought him a truck. Couldn't give that back.

Yeah. Wouldn't let me pay his house off. Wouldn't let me do anything like that. That's that generational pride. Generation, yeah. As our dad's had, man. So when they're working in a shipyard, you're like, I'm touring. This isn't a real job.

So I'm going to work myself into the ground. Exactly. Yes. Yes. That's that hunger part, man. Yeah. When curious about your parents, were they divorced? Yeah.

When they divorced and you started. to make it. Yeah. And started to make money. Was he more like, hey, just take care of your mom. I'm good. Take care of her. Yeah.

Yeah. He wasn't in my life for the first part. So my career, if I put it in chapters, the first chapter was music success. Yeah. Make the record, hit records, planting records, do the thing, go on that ride for a decade or so. And then he didn't show back. We didn't reconnect until towards the. end of that so he wasn't there for the ride right but he followed us he did quietly yeah and he was never

hitting you up no no yeah like old school yeah really proud of us yes and we always took care of our mom from day one man and i got my first check first thing i did was put a down payment on a house for her and oh man that was it that's cool it was awesome yeah and he was always really he was proud of that yes but he never wanted anything wow it was a special guy so he didn't even have to tell you you guys. Hey, take care of your mom. Like, no, yeah. Yeah, that was always the dream. You guys were always going to do it. You know how it is when you're like young, you're like, one day I'm going to buy you a house mom. Oh, man. Like, I don't know about you guys, but we never lived. It was always apartments and trailer parks. Yeah. Because at that time, pro wrestling wasn't as global, you know,

and these guys were just grinding and grinding every night. So my dream was to buy them their first house. And man, that was a good feeling, right? The best feeling. Yeah. I have a theory about you though. Yeah. Tell me. So I will, I follow you. I'm a fan. Thank you, brother. So I follow the stuff you do, everything you do. And one of the things I see you do that makes me really happy is when you just surprise people, you'll give them stuff. And I always know when I see another guy who came from nothing because that's, we want to play

Santa Claus. Yeah, man. We want to show up for all the kids. Yes. You know, you watch those movies when you're a kid where the kid gets to go to Tours or us and buy the rich dad or adopt some or something. And they get to get whatever they want. Like that's the feeling as a kid when you don't have anything you dream of like being

able to buy whatever you want. Yeah. And then as you get older, you realize like giving to other people is actually the, you get the most joy out of that. That's it. And I see you surprise a guy. And I saw you gave a guy a truck. I was like, that's badass.

Yeah. That's what life's all about. That's it. And I always know when another guy came from nothing because that's the feeling that we want to have when we get something. Yeah. It's not even actually about us. No, no.

It's about letting them experience what our dreams were when we didn't have shit. Yeah. Man, that's cool. Thank you for that. You do the same thing then, right? Absolutely. Yeah, isn't that great? Any chance I get.

People always ask, hey, what's your top five movies? And one of my top five movies is Willy Wonka, the chocolate factory, right? For, you know, there's a gazillion reasons why that movie is amazing. The original with Gene Wilder. But that moment at the end where he tells Charlie, you didn't. get it. You got it all. And Charlie's like, wait, what? Even Grandpa Joe, he's like Grandpa Joe, too. Everybody moves in. Like, you got the entire chocolate factory. Like, I love shit like that. So in those moments, right? It's like surprising somebody with a car, a truck, or this or that, whatever it is. That's all really want a moment, man. Exactly. Right. Yeah, it's, um, it's the joy of knowing what it's like to not have something. That's right. It's the joy of actually having it. even when I bought my first car, or my first house. Yeah.

It's surreal when you haven't had that before. We were always moving around. Yes. It was just always a thing. The house thing was always tough. Get evicted or you have to move in with people from church. That's too, man. You know what I mean?

Yes. And even to this day, when I walk in my bathroom and I like feel the wood floor or the marble shower or the, it's a nice ass house, you never get tired. of it ever there's never a day i take it for granted right right always grateful man so you're always having those moments yeah like is this my fucking life this is my life and then you want someone to experience a a any piece of that you can share with them yes you know it's it's hard it'd be impossible to share all of it with everyone but like i always tell my kids if we have something we give something that's right man whatever it is yes even if it's just the tip at the restaurant or

anything anytime you notice an opportunity to give something it feels good to give. Yes. It's great. I see you do that and I'm just like, man, that guy, what a hero. I love doing that kind of stuff, man, because you're right. I mean, I always feel like you and I are really lucky and blessed boys, man. We work our asses off.

Yeah. But also just to be able to do the stuff we love to do. And, you know, you get up in the morning and that thing, you hope you're able to do something that where you get up and you run to it in the morning. Yep. With you guys, music, with me, stuff I do, you just. fucking run to it. So we get lucky and blessed.

I tell our girls, too, I got one 22-year-old and then we have two little ones, all girls. And the little ones, always telling them, like, same thing. You get, you give, but always, we've gotten to a great place now with them where they love surprising too as well. And I got into a good place with tips are important. Yeah. So I'll do the math and like, hey, how much should we leave?

And they'll know, like, go big, right? Go big. It's great. Yes. And then it's gotten to a point where they're like, can I give them the money? I say, yeah, you go up and you give them money, say thank you for your time and service. We appreciate it very much. And it's just the best, man.

It's great. Seven-year-old, eight now, and a five-year-old. And yeah, they go up, have that moment, give the money. It's really cool. It's nice. Yeah. It's nice to be able to do that. Yeah, man.

How do you... Before we start, I got a little thing. Can I break out some tequila for you and I? Yes, please. Okay. In the ice, please. Yes, sir. I'm a tequila guy.

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Thank you. My pleasure, man. A little bit more. You know Glenn Campbell? You know that singer Glenn Campbell? Yeah. He said, I've never been drunk. I've just been overseered.

You put it up here if you want. Oh, yeah. Thank you, brother. Well, cheers, brother. Cheers. Good to see you. Good to sit down with you. Thanks for coming.

And happy birthday. Thank you. It's my birthday shot. All right. I also love this. Oh, good, man. Yeah. It reminds me a grape soda when I was a kid.

All right. So funny story behind that, you know, is, so in today's market, there's a ton of flavors out there with all the energy drinks and like, you know, cotton candy, fruity, pebble and all this shit. I was telling our group, I said, hey, we need a flavor that reminds me of when I was a kid. Yeah. Yeah. Go to the gas station. Yeah.

cake and a grape soda. This is great. Thank you, brother. Thank you. It's a good one. This an yo, it's super clean, by the way. Is that the only alcohol

you drink, tequila? It's the one I like. Yeah, love tequila. I was a big fan. Me too. Yeah. Love it. Love the tequila.

It's the only one that I can drink through the night. I can have like three drinks over three hours. Sip it. Still gets me. Yeah. Takes me back a little,

but I can't get too crazy. That's right. Now I'm 45. Yeah, man. I got teenagers. Yeah. Boards girls, what do you have? My son's 14.

My daughter's 16. Oh, nice. They're great. Awesome. But you know, you've got to contain the- Got to contain, yeah. The animal. Yes.

Yes. Whiskey, no good. Whiskey, no good. Vodka, no good. Tequila, I drink tequila. That's my drink. You could sip it. It's perfect.

Yeah, it's great. Exactly. Question. You were going to say something. I have a question for you too, but go ahead. Good. One more thing with your dad, but I'm just so curious about that relationship, man. He was proud of your success.

Absolutely. Did it take him a long time to say, hey, man, I just want you to know I wasn't there in the beginning. But I want you to know I love you. I'm so fucking proud of you. Like, did you get that from him? I eventually got that from my old man. Yeah. But it took a long time.

And, you know, as like sons, it's the stuff that we wait for, you know? It's all you want. Yes. We kind of had that conversation more or less. He said, sorry, I wasn't there. But look at what you've done. And I'm proud of you. You turned out okay.

Yeah, you turned out okay. And, you know, somewhere in that 10 or 11 years, we had that conversation a few times. And so we got all the way there. I found myself always looking around at other guys because I didn't have a model. He was kind of in and out. He struggled to stay. Yeah. But he was always pretty honest.

There's a ton of things in me that I got from my dad. Honesty. Pull over and help someone change a tire. Like, that was him. Yeah. You know, if you can help someone, help him. Yes. Hard work.

Hard work. Like, worked his ass off. Always had two or three jobs. Callous kind of guy. Yeah, yeah. Tough. But I didn't realize, I was angry at him for most of my life until I had kids. That's when I realized.

Oh, shit. this is what that feels like yes i probably would have ran too yeah yeah more kids you know yeah god bless my mom uh but you know marriage is tough you're you're trying to i think back then too they didn't have the tools and the resources to figure out like okay what is this partnership you know how do we normalize the challenges of marriage and and and talk about it and and work it out oh brother that conversation was not happening right with our our our dads that was not They didn't talk about much. It would have been nice.

Yeah. Man. And he was tough. He was tough on me. He was, when he was around, we were young, he was just a tough guy. But that was his way of loving you. He's trying to get you ready for the world. And that was, I feel like with my old man, too, like I, once I became a dad and a father,

I realized, ah, got it. Then once I got a little older, you realize, man, he had real limited capacity for love. and what really helped me was the moment I understood, all right, my old man is loving me with all he's got. Everything he's got. Everything he's got. And even if it's just this fucking much, it's everything he's got. And I need to appreciate that. And then go back a generation before him.

Oh, my granddad was a World War II vet. Wow. You come back with trauma. Yes. That you don't even know how to work out back then. That's right. And so my dad inherited some of that. And you think about the generate.

So when I think about I'm obsessed with history, I love watching and learning about what men went through to build the world. Yes. And World War II is interesting because when you think about what those men sacrificed and then what their families gave for generations, we're still, we're the first generation of people who have probably broken the chains and the cycle of all the trauma. and work some shit out. We still have our work to do. Yes. But we're more in touch with like, if there's a problem, we have to work out, we can talk about it. Yes.

Yeah. It's like mental health stuff. Yeah. Right. There was no mental health back then. No. It wasn't even a word we used. Oh, man.

Our dad's not at all. In the generation before that, no, not at all. Did you imagine your dad saying, I'm taking a mental health day? No, I cannot, by the way. Hey, family, I'm taking a mental health day. Yes. I need to take a day for me. This is it.

But they should have. They should have. Yes. God bless these guys, man. That's why I'm not mad at them. I'm like, dude, you were limited resources. Yes. Limited income.

Yes. You're raising four kids. You're trying to figure it all out. Yes. Trying to stay married. Yes. Yes. That's that perspective, man.

That I learned. I'm glad you learned it too, man. And I try to, when I talk with my buddies and we talk about the complicated relationships that we have with our dads, especially in that generation, I'm always telling and a man, your dad loved you to his full capacity. Yeah. And I love that you reconciled with your old man and you guys were able to have that beautiful eight, 10 year run,

whatever it was before he passed away suddenly. It was so challenging with me because I went into my dad, like your dad, blue collar. He was kicked out of the house at 13. I'll tell you this crazy story. His dad died when he was 13. That's tough. Yes.

and the mom, my grandmother, had another boyfriend a couple of months later. That boyfriend was a drunk. And on Christmas, it was either Christmas or Thanksgiving, I think it was Christmas, the new boyfriend took the turkey out of the oven and pissed on it. And then my dad got pissed. They got into a fight,

and my dad went outside and had a, it was a stick or a toy gun. and drew a line in the in the dirt and said if you cross that i'm sorry yeah he took he drew a line in the dirt and then took a shovel and said if you cross that i'm gonna kill you and the drunk who pissed on the turkey crossed the line my dad laid him out with the shovel with the shovel cold as a block of ice and this was in amherst nova scotia up in canada oh wow and cops came He was still knocked out. Cops told my grandmother,

two things are going to happen when he regains consciousness. He's either going to kill your son or your son's going to kill him. So one of these guys got to go. They can't live in the same house. They were just, to the cops, they were like, we're just being real with you. That's what's going to happen. My grandmother at that time looked at my dad, who was 13, and said,

you're out. Kicked him out and that was it. So that's his reference. So right there, man, his life, that's it. Like that informed his life, his capacity to love. That was love in his. That was love. That was his example.

That was his example. Yeah. And so that's the man who raised me. Shoveled to the fucking guy's head who's doing wrong. Now I got to leave. Now I got to leave. But I'll always protect my family and I work hard. But that's my capacity for love.

So that was the man who raised me. And then I wish, you know, so, Not only that, but he was also a pro wrestler. So it was that dynamic of young Buck, son getting in the business. How's he going to do? You know what I mean? He's probably worried about you too. Oh, because he told me when I told him like, hey, I think I want to do this.

I think I, I think I've got some talent. I don't know. Maybe I'll suck. But I feel like I have a passion for this. And he was so adamantly against me getting into pro wrestling. He's like, you don't know if you have anything to offer. I don't want you to live like this. I live in an apartment that I can't even afford in Tampa, Florida, for $500

bucks a month. I don't want this for you. So we did this. I mean, that's how you know he love you, though. Right. But at that time, if you think about it, I didn't have the emotional tools to realize, like, man, that's love, dad. Thank you.

I love you. I still got to make my path. Yep. I didn't have that. I was like, what the fuck you're talking about? Like, it's my life. Like, then we just did that for a long time. Then I wish I had what you had with your dad and you reconciled.

out. So we got into this huge fight, Christmas 2019. It was awful. One of the biggest fights we ever got into about some, just some stupid shit. And then about a month later, he passed away. And we weren't talking. I'm sorry. Me too. Thank you though, man. But I wish, you know what I mean? Man, I got to tell you, though, I guarantee you that you guys somehow, some way, I know I'm a more spiritual person now. Yes. It's weird. It's like your father always goes before you into the world, into the unknown, into and even in death, he went somewhere before me. And I was always terrified of death.

Yeah. I was always anxious and this. And something happened when he passed away. Like it was like he was going first. And I feel like we're closer than we ever were. Yes, man. When he was here. Yes.

Me too. So that's powerful. What is that? What do you think that is? I felt that way too. I was like, man, when my dad passed away, I feel like all the dumb shit that we were, were arguing about like doesn't even matter and even that we didn't get to to have a final

conversation you know i have a similar it's not the same i feel your pain yeah um my dad called me and i didn't answer i would blow him off sometimes because sometimes he would call me and maybe he would be drinking or but he was always calling me to tell me he loved me and it was it was a it wasn't a bad thing yes um but he was he was he was a character you know he would he was he was he would I'll never forget this. My wife's father is Lionel Richie, right? So legendary Lionel. And we're very close.

Oh, that's right. You're married to Nicole. Nicole. Right. So Lionel is the best. Yes. And I got a story about him, but go ahead. So I don't want to hear it.

We could probably talk for three hours. So the first time my dad ever met Lionel, he was a huge fan of Lionel. Yeah. And I said to Lionel, I was like, hey, just so you know, my dad is just, he's from like, he's from southeast D.C. He's old school and he's a different, he's different from everybody out here. And Lion was like, Joel, you don't even have to tell me.

I already know where you're from. And I'm not from here either. Yeah. Right? He's like, I'm from Alabama. So he's like, don't even worry. You don't have to explain. I want to meet your dad.

So he comes out for Thanksgiving. He's out a black guy. He got into a bar fight. Wait, your old man? Yes. Like the night before he got on the. plane. He flies out for Thanksgiving. And he comes to Thanksgiving. He's a black guy. He's got some Rayvans on. And I was like, Dad, you can take your glasses off. He's no, I can't. And I was like,

what's up? And he like pulls it down. He's got a black eye. Lionel is cool as shit. Yeah. And he was always, he always told me, he was like, you're just in what you said. He said, your dad loves you. I can just see it. I can feel it. As a dad, I know it. He's loving you how he can. and that is just how it is. And right before he passed away, it was a few days. It was a day or two. He called me and I was at my kid's game.

I was working, you're working, you're watching your kid play. And you're like, I'll call him back. You're dealing with some, I was dealing with some. Now, you know, the next chapter of my career is all these businesses we're building and it's great.

It's going well. Great. Keeps you busy. You're just running through your life. Yeah. And nothing's more important sometimes. getting this deal done or getting this done or doing this. And I was there at my kids game multitasking.

I was watching him. I was rolling some emails and doing the thing. And he called me and I didn't take the call. And then like day or two later, he's gone. You'll always regret that. Yes. But you can't hold on to it. You got to let it go.

Do you remember the last time you talked to him? I don't remember the last time I talked to him. Do you have any of his messages? Did you? I saved one of his voicemails. Yeah. And I still have his, I still have his number in my favorites on my.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. I see it. Every time I go, you know, when you go to your quick call? Yeah,

yeah, yeah. You know, I got my wife, my brother, and there's my dad. I leave him there. I can't, I can't take him off, yeah.

What was your dad's name? Roger. Roger? Yeah. That's cool. My dad's name was Rocky. Cool. Let me ask you this.

What do you miss about your dad? He was the easiest person to, a call and talk to about anything. And he never, he never judged me. Wow. He never said easy for you to say. Yeah.

You know, all the, all the things, you know, when you come from nothing and then you get something and you go back home, everyone's like, oh, out there. Must be nice. Out there in Hollywood. Yeah. And you're like, nah, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm just out here. Working hard, man.

I'm working hard. Yeah. And it's just in me to not stop. Yes. He never did that. There was no judgment. Great. If I said, I'm having a hard time because of this, he'd just go, yeah, I understand.

And he would always say little things like, ah, it's just a dress rehearsal. Oh, wow, yeah? He'd always say that. But he wasn't like an entertainment guy, right? No, he goes, ah, it's just a dress rehearsal. I'd be like talking about some shit that doesn't even matter now. You're like, oh, this deal, I'm trying to blah, blah, blah. And I talk, you know, we talk about stuff and I would talk about work and he would let me.

Yeah. Couldn't relate to it. Wow, man. He goes, I don't know, man. Sounds, yeah, that sounds stressful, but yeah, you'll be all right. Or he'd say, you're good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're good.

Just little things like that. I came to appreciate the ease of it. The ease of it. And that he really did, he was proud of me and he believed in me. That's so cool, man. You know? Yeah. My dad was the same way.

I feel like he was super proud, but he expressed it differently. Like he would, look, it would have been awesome to have a conversation like that, like you have with your dad. where I just talked to him about shit and he's like, it's going to be okay, you're cool, dress rehearsal, whatever. He would listen and then figure, this is some of the shit that I miss actually about my dad. He would listen and then kind of bring it back around to himself. Like, oh, yeah, absolutely.

No, I totally understand. Hey, you know that shirt you had on on TV? Can I get a couple of those shirts? Is that by you do that? Or can you hook me up with the, like it was always that. You're like, oh, sure, dad. Yeah. It was always that.

You know how I'm sure your dad was the same. Like my old man was just like always hustling, man for a buck. Yeah. You know, always hustling. So I would always get the hustle too. Like we would always like we'd be at events. Dude, I'll never forget this. We were at, this is such fucking Hollywood story.

We were at. I love Hollywood stories. Dude, we were at the Chinese theater where you put your hands in the cement. I had that honor. Amazing. Everyone comes out. Put the hands in the cement. I had my daughter there at that time.

my wife, family, everybody brought my old man out, him and my mom. The event's done. Everyone's just chilling in the back, having some drinks, everyone's talking. Hey, congratulations. My dad comes up and he's like, hey, yeah, congratulations. And I'm expecting him to say, I got to tell you, that was really awesome. I mean, this is crazy, right? It was, you know, two wrestlers and my son, this Hollywood, dude, he goes, can't talk to you son?

I said, yeah. And any time, you know, I'm used to that. I was like, oh, fuck, here it comes. He's like, you know, you know the truck you got me. It's a little hard for me to fit into nowadays with my hip. You know, he's got those old wrestler injuries on my hip and I got to get in. I saw this amazing escalate. It's nice and wide.

I'm thinking, here's what I think. And, you know, so now here comes a hustle. Instead of him saying, could you pick this up for me? Right? He's like, all right, here's what we're going to do. I'll give you back the one you gave me. then I know a guy down at the dealer, give it to him, he's going to give you a great deal,

we'll do the exchange and blah, blah, blah, and I'll pay you back, I'll figure out the payments monthly. I was like, that, it's all good. There's no payments. It's all good, but it's also, you know what I mean? Yeah, and it's his way of, in his mind, like my dad, similar things, it wasn't that they wanted anything from us,

but a dad's always going to think they know more than a son. I mean, I look at my son and I probably do the same thing to him. Right. And he's more up on a bunch of shit than me. Right. He's 14 and he's locked in with a bunch of shit that I don't understand. Yeah. And he's got good insights.

I need to listen to him a little bit more. That's right. But I think I know everything because I'm the older. That's right. You know? Yeah. You're the Papa Bear. And he won't listen in some regards, you know?

And I'm sure we didn't listen to our dads on a lot of shit. No, we thought we knew it all, man. Right. But the grace of all of it is that. we realize that we are standing on their shoulders. That's right. Regardless. Yes, man.

Yes. They're imperfections. Yes. I think about my dad all the time and I will say, and I wrote a ton of songs. Based off of- Pissed off of my dad. Yeah. Wow.

And just shredded him. Yeah. I was like, that was one of good Charlotte's like things was like, I hate my dad. Yeah. The narrative wasn't- On the nose or more subtle? Both. Yeah.

everything went back to that because it was really painful when he left how old were you he came and went from like 13 to 15 okay so he was really 13 when he when he bounced so you were old enough to know yeah old enough for it to be painful and then all the real trouble started with like we were always moving and we were you know i mean the money money trouble started way before that but uh i can't even imagine how you could support four kids i feel like i can barely support two kids and i do pretty well. So like I think four kids working two or three jobs, painting houses on the side, doing this. He was working his ass off and trying to be married. Again, like no one gives credit to doesn't matter. Our wives are amazing. I love my wife. She's amazing. And we've been together

for 18 years. Keeping that together is work. Hard man. It's just hard. It's just the nature of relationships. Yes. So you have to give that credit in space. and room to be imperfect and be honest about it. They couldn't back then. But the grace of all of it is that we are, no matter the imperfections, no matter the mistakes, we're standing on their shoulders. If they didn't exist, we don't exist.

That's right, man. I love that you use the word grace. It's grace, give ourselves that grace, and also it's that gratitude that we have grace and gratitude. And to remember that that we're standing on their shoulders, it's easy, I think, for us who had complicated, relationships to be like pissed or remain pissed but I love that you keep going back there I think that's so important and that's something I've learned to do thankfully because it wasn't always that way but just

keep going back to the grace part you love me with all your capacity you had flaws things were fucked up but oh like you said when we started talking dude more and more like around every corner I'll say to myself in these like little quiet moments like damn that's just like my dad just like my dad just like my dad right same Same exact thing. The thing that I'll say strikes me when I think about you and my idea of you, right? So I have my idea of you and then there's really you. Right. So how we're perceived is real. It's important. And then who we really are is partly that. And then there is our actual real life that no one can know but us and our family. The idea that you got into a huge fight with your dad in 2020 says to me how much you love him. that you would get into a horrible fight. Because when you think about the person you are that you've built yourself to be in the world, right?

And I can only imagine how much work and relentless drive it's taken. To start from here and get to here, you didn't start here in this world and get here. You started here. Yeah. You went from there to here. A lot of people start here and get here.

Yes. Yeah. Right? They already have, they're born in the opportunity and they build up. And I'm not even mad at that. I hope my kids do that. Absolutely.

Right. But to go from there to here is incredible. And it's the story. It's the hero's story, right? The one we want to believe in that anything's possible. Yeah. To build your life up to a place where you have built a global brand that people look to for inspiration.

They look to it for all kinds of things that you could still get into a horrible fight with your father over some shit, you know. Yeah, yeah. Means that you're still a human being that wants a relationship with their dad and loves their dad enough to stay in at a dinner and get into a fight. And it turns into a big thing. I understand how painful that is and how horrible that is. But to me, I just, I hear a story that I love because I go, oh, he didn't just say

fuck off. I'm out. Yes. And, you know, my people will blah, blah, but, like there's plenty of people that are just completely isolated themselves from the world in their past. We have to leave the things in our past that damage us. I had to learn how to do that. Like there was plenty of bad things in my past,

but then there were some things that I needed to hold on to and heal and repair. Yes. And it was my job. It wasn't going to be their job because they didn't have the capacity to do that. That's right. But the fact that you, in 2020, it was only four years ago. Yeah, man. Yeah.

You are you then. Yeah. successful guy at the top of his game and you're still getting to a fight with your dad at Thanksgiving or Christmas. That means I love my dad and I want a relationship with him and I'm trying. No matter if you guys worked it out or not, that's not the point. I actually think that he and you both felt a love and you just didn't get the time to to work out some of the things.

But a lot of that gets worked out in the other life. Man, man, I appreciate that, man. Thank you. Yeah. That's really beautiful. That's amazing, bro. I never looked at it like that. A lot of people wouldn't even care.

I never looked at it. Well, you know, it's like you're the same way. It's like, no, that's my old man. And I feel like this thing was fucked up. And why did you do that? I don't understand. And we had it out. He was like, well, but I blah, blah, blah.

And I was like, yeah, but then this happened. He's like, yeah, but I only did it because of this. I'm like, yeah, but you see it fucking affected this thing. And it ultimately, now that I think about it, it got to a good place. He was like, I understand. you know we still ended with all right i love you love you too which was good man but i never looked at it like that but the fact that you both were there doing it is says it all to me because a lot of

people yeah and you've seen it too i'm sure they build these halls of mirrors yes and they don't want to let anyone in for real yes and then they're not a human being anymore they're just you can't even really talk about anything because they're they just they don't want to feel anything right and i understand it, but I think sometimes with success, we don't want to feel real life anymore. We almost were escaping the pain of life. And we thought success was the answer. Success is just our idea of success, whatever that is, all the byproducts of it, we could line the walls with it, but it doesn't do anything.

That's right. I think success is more of a- Ultimately. Yeah. Ultimately doesn't, right? We think it does. It doesn't mean it's not nice, but that's not the point of the success. The success is, can I climb that mountain?

I think I want to. I think I can. And then we start trying and we do it. All the byproducts of that success are the fruits we get to enjoy sometimes. But when the fruits become the focus and not the mountain. Man, yes. Dude, I always say that I love that you're saying this. So let me just back up for a second because this is a big thing I think about success.

and a lot of times when you run into people, whether they're older people, our age, younger, even sometimes teenagers when we talk to them, try your best not to focus on the shiny thing. The shiny thing will come, right? The money will come, the watch, the this, that whatever it is in your head,

like, oh, I want to buy that thing. It's important. That'll come. But focus on being really good at something. Yeah. And focus on putting in the work and making that decision, I'm going to put it in the fucking work.

I'm going to grind. I'm going to keep my blinders. on, but I love that you use the analogy about a mountain because I say that all the time. And I'm always constantly reminding myself of the importance of this idea that I'm always in my head, even as we're climbing the mountain. Like I see it up there. Man, that's at peak. The summit, let's go for it.

You bring everybody with you and everyone works hard. And then the moment I feel like it's starting to get close, I always say, mountain changed. Yeah. There it is up there. Now we got to keep going up there. you almost like you never arrive. And I always tell younger people, the best part about success is the ethic behind it,

the work ethic behind it. Like, that's the stuff that will never go away. It's not the shiny shit that you could buy. It's nice. Yeah. I love it and I'm grateful. You know what I mean? But it's not,

you realize once you get a little older, like the shit that really matters is the stuff that's just in front of you at that time, like kids and family and, you know what I mean? And your desire or you're a desire or you, willingness to work like yeah let's put it in the work let's put some calluses here you know how do you manage the big life the work life right in my opinion we can never stop trying that's right we just have to keep going that's right let's see how fast we can fly this thing let's see how high we can climb yes um

and i see you doing that i love all the stuff you do you're as an entrepreneur i just think you're running the game thank i really love you too i love how you move you move you move. And also to have limits, I think, set on where you started. Everybody's going to put a limit on that. Then you beat those limits. Yeah. Go from wrestling to movies. Then they're going to put a limit on that. Right. Kind of movies can you do? Right. Then you're going to beat those limits. Right. Then you move into entrepreneurial endeavors. Yes. They're going to limit that. Yes. You can only do this. You can only do that. You're going to beat all those. So that's the big life. It just keeps growing if you keep. How do you manage that?

life with the small life, fatherhood, family. And how do you keep that calm and still and small while managing the hurricane of the big life? For sure. That's a great question. I try to, and I'm curious to know how you feel about this. I try to keep the small life, the closest thing to me. Yeah. Because there was a time where I was running and gunning, where I was on the road, 230 dates out of the year, whether it's wrestling, or even when I transitioned into movies, I had this idea that, well let me go get established let me get in that town for a month then family can come out and then you could be out for a month family goes back home and then i'll come back home but this clear separation i don't know where that came from i think protection probably yeah or

thinking no this is what i need but you realize oh no well the thing that i really need is i need my anchor yeah and that's the stuff that i love keep that close because the stuff the small stuff right our kids babies family relationships that's the shit that really matters that the small life allows big life

to really happen yeah I feel like and I feel like the small life allows you and I always say you know I I feel like we get lucky we get to fly the spaceship yeah around the universe and look cool and shit

you know but there's a lot of other people who you don't see who are building this thing yeah and help you you build it. And when it comes back down, you know, to ground zero, then they all come in there and they get behind the, you know, they get inside the rocket and they help everything that they need to do. So I try and do that with small life. I keep small life super close now. Yeah. So when I go on the

road, if we're shooting different location, brother, we're all going. Yeah. The dog. It's the only way it works. Everybody. Yep. Right. You too. You protect them from the things that I feel I need to protect them from, but they have to share in all of it so that they have they feel ownership of it and they don't feel isolated from me like that's right like I don't want them to feel on the outside I don't want them to feel I want them to feel like they're on the inside even down to making decisions yes like hey should we go do this that's right then it's an adventure for everyone that's right you know so I love that it's it's including them so they feel like because you could easily be the one to make all the calls make the decision yeah or pass it off to somebody else they'll do it you guys don't

have to worry about it but I love that you that you you include them to as well. Yeah. As you move forward, what's the thing for you that allows you to, like if you look at that wall and the wall is an opportunity and it looks like that wall, it looks like there's no cracks in it, but you and I could see one little crack there and we're going to go up to that crack and we're going to rip that fucking thing open. We're going to pull our nails off just trying to make that crack bigger and bigger, bigger, bigger,

bigger, bigger. So now we could step through that thing. Yeah. Like, what is the thing for you that keeps that mindset for you? Like what? Because you and I talked about a lot of people who we know, who became successful, wanted to separate themselves, found comfort in the success, didn't want to fuck with real life.

I don't like real life. So I like the success in keeping it here. What's allowed you to maintain that? Hunger, never arrive. it, by the way, when I got cut from the CFL, the Canadian footballie, I had seven bucks in my pocket. I had like a five, a one, and some change. Yeah. And I always like to say at least I rounded up.

I was optimistic. Like, hey, I got seven bucks. And we were evicted, like you guys, we were evicted when I was 14. Same age. Same, right? So, dude, that shit. That fucks you up. It fucks you up.

And in my mind, and I know it's crazy chat here, but like I, there's times when I think oh, I'm right around the corner from getting evicted, man. Same. Like, I can't stop. It's crazy. Right? My wife is like, where are you talking about? Like, we're good.

Chill. Mine too, man. It's funny. Lauren's the same way. I'm sure as Nicole. Yeah. No, we're good. We're good.

Yeah. What helps you. Thank God for wives, man. Dude. Good wives. Yes. What allows you, like, how do you hold on to that? Like, what's allowed you to hold onto that?

Did the drive? Yeah. I, my brother. our dream. Because you guys started that. Together. We're best friends and we talk all day long. We text all day long. And we're dreamers. And I want to be more than what people, I think when you grow up with a low self-esteem, a low self-worth, you never lose a little part of that. And you always have a chip on your shoulder to be more than what people think you can be. So I'm always building these businesses

with the mind that we could scale them and that they can be bigger than what anyone thinks and that we could you know and I think it's just the two of us that's our dream it's the to to keep climbing any mountain we can find we're relentless yes the two of us though I really feel like he's my we're twins so we were born together we we survived together and I really do and then our families you know we want to I want to impress my wife I want to impress her family yes and I want to continue to build a place in the world and contribute something that's positive that's meaningful That's why I love what you do. Everything you do behind it is an undertone of positivity.

Yes. And get back up, aim up, try. That's right. And you're teaching people how to be disciplined. A lot of us didn't know how to do that. We didn't grow up in families where fitness was even a thing. Right. So it took me two decades to learn.

I'm just getting my fitness down where I'm dedicated to it. Nice. Took me two decades. Of course, man. And eating and you do that. You're teaching people a lot of things. but it's the idea that it's worthwhile to try. Yes.

To be the best you can be. Yes. And you set your own limit, not anyone else. So I think you're a great example of someone who's bucked against every limit that's been put on them, whether it's been said or not. Yes. Right. Some things are said. Some things are implied.

Yeah. Right. Some people assume. And you just go right through it. Yes. And that's the examples we need. And we live in a world where there's not a lot of those examples. It's pretty negative place sometimes.

And we look around. we find models that we can, you know, especially guys. Yeah. Like who do we look out to and see who's trying to be a dad? Who's trying to be in a relationship? At least they're trying and they're putting their best foot forward. That's right. That's what we need.

That's right. By the way, it's in the power of trying, man, because that's how important it is, especially for our students. But also, there's so much fucking noise out there. Yeah. And it's negative and it's judgmental and it's all the shit. that is very sludgy. But I always admire you, your brother,

and everyone out there, male female, who bucks at the system, who doesn't wanna be pretzled, who even if somebody's saying, no, you can only do it like this and somebody goes, well, fuck that, and I wanna do it like this and don't tell me what to do. This is what I feel.

So I can appreciate that and especially how noisy things are today and how easy it is for people to just jump on and judge. I always appreciate and admire the people who go, well, I'm going to do this for me. I'm going to be me. I'm going to be a good person. I'm going to be positive.

And I'm going to fucking try. Like you said, like I'm going to give this thing a shot. And then who can do it elegantly and presidentially? Yeah. Like who can stay buttoned up, not win and then chop everyone's head off. That's right. That's the thing is you do it with elegance. You keep shit tight.

That's what I look at. When I look at, how do I want to win? Who's a good winner? Who wins? and we can all actually celebrate with them versus them, you know, spike the ball in our face. Oh, man. And that's the thing that I love about how you move through the world, whether it's putting out products, movies, football leagues, back to wrestling, all the things, who can beat every wall,

who can continue to rise, and then do it elegantly and keep their shit tight and move through the world with some class. because I think that's an old school thing that we've lost a lot of now people just make spectacles of everyone and I look for the guys that I want to follow because they keep it tight they move presidentially you know they move with class they move I look to those guys you're one of the examples I always use thank you brother how do you move through the world when lose or draw keep it together keep it tight move elegantly through the world that's a that's a skill that takes practice and it takes real self-discipline self-control self-control self-control

self-esteem. So I want to talk about Papatouille. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. That was like one of the big reasons I wanted that we were, I wanted to talk to you. So before, before we before you up, you go, I want to tell you, I'm now using four products in my, I'm a big on skin care. And like smelling good and all that stuff. Yes. And I feel like there isn't, especially with guys, like it's like no one talks about it. Girls talk about it all the time they have all these options and products and you usually end up using their wife stuff yeah and you put this out and i use the tattoo stick yes big time yeah much needed someone needed to make this tattoos i have it on right now and then i use this all day yes the eye yeah the eye roller yeah the eye it's got a cooling gel in there it's also got a cooling ball in there too as well dude this is like i

feels nice and cool i'll just be like oh it'll probably it'll be like oh it'll be frava It'll zen you. It'll also bring down some puffiness you have. But dude, really quickly, you bring up about conversation. One of the reasons why I wanted to create Papua Tui was us as dudes, we could talk about our favorite cars, movies, booze, relationships, mental health, working out, cheat meals, all that shit. Every dude who's come up to me in the past, especially when it comes to skincare,

they'll be like, hey, what are you? what do for you? I'm like, why the fuck are we whispering, man? And it dawned on me. I'm like, wait a second. There's a whole, there's a white space out here, not only in the market, I think, for a product, but also an opportunity to encourage, like, let's be open about what we put on our skin.

We get one body, one life, one skin. Let's take care of it. So I love that it's been encouraging this conversation with dudes, which is important because you were saying, like, I know. I go to use my wife stuff. Yeah. You do as well. We all do.

So I wanted to make this line where it was the ingredients were great. I didn't know this. I became a student of the game. There's a lot of bad shit like parabenbs and solfates and all that that are in products that we normally love and use. I won't mention who they are. Yeah, but you can straight up get cancer from using it. Like you.

It's crazy. It's crazy. So we removed all that shit from Papatouille, clean, effective. And it was important like you because we. We never arrive. And if you've come from, I always say if you're hungry, you'll never be full. So it was important to me just to keep everything under 10 bucks. Yeah.

That's one of the reasons I love it because everyone can get it. Yes. I hate telling people, hey, you should do this. And then it's like $50 or $60. Yes. Any guy can go out and get it. And the face, also the face cream. It's amazing.

That's my morning face lotion now. It's fantastic. Yeah. Dude, so have confidence with this stuff. The toner is the, is the magic. That's the magic. Yeah. It's a secret weapon.

That's your secret weapon. Dude, toner is the secret weapon. Because your skin looks good. Thank you, brother. Yours too. All right, I know we got to go, but thank you for this. But let me say, this aside, this has been a real pleasure, man. I really appreciate sitting with you and chopping this stuff up.

And I don't, in my life, I don't have opportunities like this a lot where I'm just, I'm talking about stuff with my own man, somebody who understands and talking about success and the craziness of fame and all the stuff that we talked about. So I really appreciate this time. Thank you. I'm happy to do it again. Anytime. Oh my, I would come back when we have more time. Thanks for coming all this way. Of course, brother. Yeah. I think, you know, the important thing for people listening, it doesn't matter who you are. The human being, that had to get from there to here, had to go through a whole lot of shit. And you've proved that it's possible.

If it's anything that you want to do, give it a fucking shot and bet on yourself. Give it a shot. Because even in the shot, in the effort of it, even if it doesn't shake out the way you want it to shake out, there's some magic that happens in the effort and that you walk away. And if you don't get the thing that you wanted to get,

it may lead you down another path where you go, oh shit, look at this thing. Maybe this is what my path is. First time I met Lionel Richie. I'm getting off the plane. He's getting on his plane. I'm getting off my plane. And I see him and I'm walking.

I'm like, oh, fuck, that's Lionel Richie. Big fan, as we all are. The goat, give him some love. And I had just saw a documentary on him. And the end of the documentary, I repeated it back to him. He got some advice from, George Burns. Crazy.

And it's so moved me because we're in the entertainment business. I know it's going to move you too. And he said, George, something, the effect of George, like, what's the best advice you could give me? I need to get something from you because, you know, you're the OG. And George looked at him and said, stay booked, kid. Stay booked. Yeah.

And I love that. Simple as that. It's simple as that because I feel like even though, you know, you may not be running and gun on 300 dates a year, I'm not wrestling 250 dates a year, but we're still looking to stay booked. and doing that thing that keeps us crying. We're doing everything we possibly can. That's right.

We're doing everything we can in the capacity we have to do it. And trying our best and keeping our feet moving. And that's it. That's it, brother. No days off unless it's with the family and you're spending that time.

If I'm not working, I'm with my family. That's right. Same thing. I got another story I'll tell you, man. So anyway, no, I'm kidding. Thanks, bro. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of Artist Friendly.

you really liked it, you can follow, like, subscribe to the show, anywhere you listen to podcast, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support, and we'll see you next time.