Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - HARDY

Episode Date: September 4, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by HARDY. Growing up in the small town of Philadelphia, Mississippi, HARDY was introduced to heavy music in high school. Soon, he fell in love with nü metal and metalcore, including System of a Down, Linkin Park, and August Burns Red. It’s all culminated in an overlap of country and hardcore within his own music, where HARDY has scratched out a unique space. His 2023 album, the mockingbird & THE CROW, was split into two halves — country and hard rock — the latter featuring a collaboration with A Day to Remember’s Jeremy McKinnon. Since then, it’s hit No. 1 on the Top Country Albums, Top Rock Albums, and Top Hard Rock Albums charts and rose to No. 4 on the Billboard 200. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up everybody? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'm talking to American country, rock singer, and songwriter, a guy with multiple number one songs, platinum records, and a big rock star himself, Hardy. Let's go. I don't want to bed times. I don't want to have bad. Cheers. Cheers, man. Thank you for having me. Thanks for coming. Happy to be here. Besides the rock, You're the second, only the second tequila toast I've had on this show. What I know, the other one? It's pretty good.

It's good. Just The Rock, who gave me the tequila. Oh, the Rock. Sorry, I thought you meant, I don't know what I was thinking. That's cool. So the Rock gave me those, like, a case. And that's his. Of tequila.

And he's, absolutely, because I like his tequila. It's really good. Yeah. It's like very smooth. Oh, yeah. It's like the Repo's got a little. Think about this. This is why I love.

love him. He makes good tequila affordable. Anybody can buy a bottle of it and it drinks just like an expensive bottle of tequila, which I love. Is he paying you? Is he paying you? No, he's not. Not at all. I am so, like, obsessed with value. I don't even care about cheap, but like a good price where I feel like I'm getting the real cost of the goods versus like someone who's just built a label up and is selling it at a high price because they can. Yeah. Versus what it's actually worth. Yeah, totally.

I hate when you feel like you're paying for the name versus like... I'm trying to think of something that is like shitty but expensive. Could name a few things. Think about this. Not that the prices are so far apart now, but a pair of Oakley's versus a pair of Raybans. Rayvans are more expensive, right? You're paying more for Raybans, but like to me, Oakley's last longer. Yeah.

And I used to wear Raybans all the time. time. And then my wife would always take my raybans and lose them. And so every time she took my raybans, I knew it was gone. I was like, it's a matter of a week, five days, three days, however long, it's going to be gone. So I started buying Oakley's. She wouldn't wear them? She wouldn't reach for him. For some reason, I don't know if they feel like feminine or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then she stopped taking my glasses and they last longer. And then I started realizing like, oh, these are actually better glasses anyways. You can beat them up. I used to have Oakley's, but I, I have a deal with a glasses or a sunglasses company called Blue Otter.

I love Blue Water. Yeah. That's Luke's. Yeah. These are literally, these are Blue Water. You guys are a guy named Bradley Jordan started it. But all of my glasses are prescription.

So A, I'm not technically contractually obligated. I'm going to keep looking at my manager because I don't know what I'm supposed to say about Blue Water. We can edit it out. But anyway, he sends me like once every few months a new pair. But those are great glasses. I love them, dude.

They're really great. I've worn them for years and I haven't really worn anything else and they're good. And they hold up, I mean, bro, the wear and tear that I put on my Blue Otter shit and they only break like once every year and a half or so. And it's because they're getting thrown around and all that kind of stuff. You go pretty hard on them. Yeah. Value. That's what I like.

I like value. At this age, maybe. Maybe when I was younger and I hadn't been able to afford things. And I thought at first, when I first got able to buy something. you know nice or whatever i just thought the name i was a little more caught up in like oh i own this like whatever expensive thing right and then as i got older i realized like it's kind of bullshit so if it's nice right you pay for with some things do you remember the first like instrument or anything you bought that was like named brand but was also like had you know value to or or was just well made

like do you do you ever like i got like a really nice guitar when i was like 16 yeah so my brother plays guitar he definitely bought guitars and has a very big nice guitar collection but i would also say he uses them yeah so you got to yeah i'm i am not i am the opposite of uh the person that you know it's like people say like you're fine china or whatever it is you know like you might as well eat on it i'm i just think like bro you could a meteor could hit us in this room right now and yeah all the fancy shit we had that we never used is just going to go to some other person yeah what do you to build a museum. Yeah, for real.

Yeah. And then would it even be as good as a real museum? No. Nobody can come to my museum, dude. I'd say, let me think of the first thing I bought that I'd say was valuable, probably old cars. What was the first one? A 65 Impala Super Sport convertible, four on the floor. Sick.

Sick car. I actually didn't pay a crazy amount for it back then. I mean, it was a lot for me. But now when I think about it, it's probably worth five times when I pay. for it. I bought it for less. You still got it? Yeah. Nice.

Yeah. I never selling it. That's very cool. But yeah, I bought it for like 15 grand from a guy at the time for me that was just like 2001. And it was like perfect condition, one owner car, beautiful car. That's crazy, 23 years ago. I mean, that thing's probably, and I've done, you know, I've modified it and

restored it over the years to continually just be better. Yeah. Chrome things out, things like that. It's probably, I mean, that's a car that you could probably sell for well over 100 grand now but you know one of those like beautiful cars yeah it's like why would you get but i would never sell it's you got it for free in my opinion yeah i have my first truck i ever bought my first like royalty check i still have and like i'm i will drive it until the wheels fall you should it's already going through one transmission yeah yeah i just i never plan i'll never get rid of it ever no

i don't really play a lot of guitar so i have some nice guitars but mostly my brother gives them to me yeah I was like, so I have a nice acoustic guitars, nice electric guitars, but I'm not a guitar connoisseur like he is. Like he could tell you all about him. Yeah, I'm the same. I don't really know a whole lot about them. I have a nice, like, somewhat vintage, baby grand piano that I really like. That's like a white, beautiful white piano. Yeah.

Probably instruments-wise, that's probably the nicest instrument I have is a couple of nice guitars in that piano. That's cool. I don't think of what else? I would say is probably art too, like paintings. See, I have none of that. I would love to dig into that more, but that's a world that I don't know anything about. It's just like music.

It's like finding a new artist you love that not a lot of people know about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I love. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's funny. Yeah.

Become a fan. That's cool. So a couple artists over the years that I've bought paintings from, but I'm not like an art guy. So like there's an art world. I feel like is kind of exclusive. I would imagine

that it would be like that. Yeah, at the high end when you'll go to some of these things and I kind of laugh because I feel like it's the same as music. It's like music is important, art is important. But the people who kind of control it

that own it, like the people who collect it and they're almost the ones making the most money off of it. They create, it's kind of like fashion too, like high fashion. You can walk in a room and be like,

whoa, I do not feel like, cool enough to be in here. And you forget where all the ideas come from are from these misfits. Yeah. That didn't fit in. That didn't want to be in a room like that. They want to be in a room where... It's funny.

The paradox. Yeah. That's crazy. That's cool. I never thought about it like that. I don't know. It's weird how it gets like that. Yeah.

Yeah, that's really funny. It's like you make it as a musician. You get into these crazy rooms and you're like, I don't like any of these people. Yeah. Or you start thinking you need to act different. I went through this too when I was younger. I kind of struggled with this idea of like who am I in some moments when I was younger. You do something out of like wanting attention, validation, people to like you,

to do something that you feel is important or you feel like you're, so I think it's like a self-esteem thing for me. And then you do it, you get on the other side of it. And suddenly you're questioning, like you get in a room with all these important people that I've had like, you know, these record execs. these big managers and these big artists and all these people that you don't feel as good as, right? Because maybe you feel like yours is a fluke or maybe it was an accident that you got here. Yeah. And then you get in the room and you start questioning like how you're supposed to act.

What are you supposed to wear? What are you supposed to know about? What are you supposed to be? You know what I mean? And I think that like especially at a young age, I was in my early 20s, you can get lost in the sauce a little bit. I think I went through that a little bit just because my self-esteem wasn't caught up to the success that we were having with the music. Yeah, it's almost like, what is it called? Imposter syndrome. Yeah, imposter syndrome. Yeah.

We probably all go through some version of that. I've definitely dealt with that. 100%. Yeah. I feel like I'm over the last like two years. I got it like quick, very quickly after I started like after I got a little bit of fame, if you, whatever you want to call it, you know. It's fame.

And I was like. Just say, you know, you're famous. It's hard to say about yourself. It's weird to say it. But you have to. Yeah. You have to acknowledge the truth so that you don't go around it. Like deny it, repress it, all that kind of stuff.

Yeah. It's not like you're saying it in a way as it's a definition of you. You're saying it as a thing you actually have to acknowledge the truth about so that you can continue on instead of trying to like, I'm not really, you know, I always tell a lot of my friends who are artists, I meet early and then they have success. and then they become these famous artists. And I'm like, yo, just acknowledge the fame thing. It doesn't mean you have to like it. It doesn't mean you have to value it. But you have to know it's there.

You have to know it's there. Otherwise, you won't make decisions or you won't actually grow in your own real life. So then you get married. You have kids. If you try to pretend like you aren't who you are and you're married and you have kids, there's this separation where you're like a different person at home, different person in the world. You've got to have a little bit of that.

but if you're hiding, it's just a weird thing if you don't have a relationship with the reality you're in, which is for you. Maybe you were a little artist back there years ago, but now you're not. So you have to behave differently. And you also have influence on people. So when you're meeting somebody, if you don't know who you are when you meet them and how much it matters to them to meet you, you're not going to actually behave the right way. No, that's true. That's something to be, I think about that all the time about how, yeah, like little moments like that, I walk away from those a lot

and you're like, it almost seems like full of yourself or cocky, but it's not, to be like, man, I just think I probably made that person's like year by doing this, you know what I mean, or talking to him for one minute or whatever. And actually feeling the love though for yourself. Yeah. Because that's actually what matters. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's actually what matters is the influence. It's the kid who has the guitar in his garage or his bedroom that wonders, should I do this? Isn't even worth it? Everyone's telling me it's not. They're all telling me how hard it is. They don't even understand what I want to do. So you remember the early days of starting out

where you're like walking around and you're talking about what you're doing. Like, I'm one day. I'm writing songs or I'm doing this. And everyone's like, good luck. Yeah, kid. Yeah, yeah. Hope you make a kid.

I definitely had some of that for sure. You're working some job to pay the bills and you're writing and you're doing the things. and then you know people don't believe in you. You can see it. You tell them your dream and it doesn't hit. Yeah. You can just feel it.

Yeah. But then you meet you. So that's the moment where you never know who you're meeting. Like they're at the beginning of their journey and you're in, you're somewhere in the middle of yours. Yeah. You know, you're definitely not at the beginning of yours. And they needed to hear whatever it is, even if it was a high if it was just like you took the time to recognize that like, oh, they're up and coming and they're trying. We don't know who's going to make what and what's going to happen, but we know what it feels like to be like not seen by anyone when we're trying to like start out.

And I think that's why it's worth always remembering what that was like and actually recognizing where we are now that actually matters. Yeah, totally. I agree 100%. Yeah. We just come a long way. Yeah. It's funny. We're in the weeds, dude.

Yeah. Philadelphia, Mississippi. Yeah, dude. You ever been there? No. I've been to Mississippi. Wouldn't know which part of Mississippi I'm in when I'm in Mississippi. There's only two parts.

You would either go to basically Tupelo. Actually, three. Like the coast, there's a Coliseum or a arena in Jackson, and there's an arena in Tupelo. That's it. We've done both of those. They're all like small arenas, though, like, you know, like a minor league hockey kind of situation.

Yeah. It's pretty wild. The biggest thing that I actually wanted to talk to you about today because I was thinking about it last night, I was like, I'm a big fan. Thank you. I don't think we've ever met. I don't think so.

You know, like, which is... I think I might have met your brother one time in Nashville. Josh, my older brother. Maybe so. Or maybe my twin brother. Benji? Benji. With... I met one of them.

We all look the same, to be honest. I can't remember. We look like triplets. I think you actually are in this, like, cool place for rock music, but also kind of like, you're a rock and roll guy to me, but like, you do country really well. And it's like, it's like one of the, few rock country guys around in my opinion kind of around you're the first guy that's ever said it in that order which is wild to hear i see rock first yeah yeah yeah i see like country music obviously you grew up

around country music yeah and you're a country i don't know if i would define you as anything but rock and roll to me is rock and roll so there's like different parts of i mean i'm from i'm from a different part of the country where are you from maryland okay grew up with lots of country music and a huge country fan I know that Maryland is like mostly like rural. It's just the East Coast that's that's city. Yeah, it's the two cities. You're near D.C. You're near Baltimore.

Kind of. You're a couple hours away. But growing up in the sticks where we grew up, we kind of rejected all the country around us and started like a what we thought was a punk band. In our mind at the time we were young, we're 15. We're like, let's be the opposite of this place because it was very hard. And I wouldn't say because of the people there. It was very hard because of our family.

And at the time, we pointed it at all the people. Like, you don't understand me. But it was really just like, if you don't have a functional family life and your parents can't really get it together and build a functional family unit, you're not going to go into the world equipped to deal with any people, period. Right. And so you're going to likely have social and emotional problems everywhere you go because you didn't learn functionality at home.

But you had music as an outlet for that. That is it. Yeah. So when you're feeling misunderstood, it's not, I look at it now as a grown up with a family and teenagers, I look at their development because they've had like a functional family. You know, I see them interact with the world and they're balanced. They can, you know, when I think you, you lack that, you go into the world a little more, you confront the world and it's harder for you to understand and you're probably behind a little bit

like socially and emotionally underdeveloped. So I realize now going into the world, I wasn't equipped to like, go out and make tons of friends. And I felt misunderstood, but it likely wasn't their fault. Right. Not saying it was a bad thing because we ended up starting the band and going, running away and building our own lives. Right.

But where we grew up was it was a very like country music heavy place. So we have a lot of love for country music. We've always, I listen to country music. It's like 50% of my music time is probably country music. Sick. And like rock and then some hip hop. I love hip hop. Me too.

So it all mixes together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I see you, like, I see your music being influenced by, like, the same stuff. Yeah. It's like very, very true rock, but I feel hip hop. I saw the song you did with Fred Durs. I love that song. Thank you.

It's fucking sick. Thank you. I feel like Fred doesn't get enough credit for, like, the songwriting chops he has. Yeah. Such a good songwriter. Yeah, he really is, man. I mean, all that stuff that he sent me when he called me and he was just like, this is what I was thinking for this verse or this.

concept and it was exactly what I was thinking about kind of like this angel devil on your shoulderish kind of thing and anyway when he sent me his two verses like his two takes yeah I was just like man it's really good and like he can he's he was really good and this is why like it like separates the you know like the men from the boys or whatever you want to call it that's a terrible way to put that but um is that like when an artist latches all into a concept and like you don't have to tell them like in this in this particular example I didn't have to tell him like okay, I think it should be like this. He just immediately understood exactly what the hook said

and the way that he used his own words, catered towards that, like, perfectly. Everything about it, even the small things like him writing his line, you know, that like the end of the sentence was, I've got a soul for sale, but he let me take that back over. Just small things like that. It's like you understand songwriting. It's an artist.

Yeah, he's an artist. Yeah. That's what happens when two artists get together. Yeah. It's that little extra different thing that you get and it's not a math equation. It's like two artists. They throw in and then they get it right away.

It's just easy. It's cool. Yeah. But not many, like to me, not many modern rock bands could stand next to Limp Biscuit and you could. Like you could go out and play with Limp Biscuit. I wish that'd be awesome. You probably should, to be honest. I probably will one day.

You probably will because they're like touring again in a way that is like amazing that I feel like people, I feel like Fred is a bit like Kaufman. He's, he's, oh, funny. He's a little bit of a genius. He's a little bit of like, is he in on the joke? Is it a joke? Right. Like he's just, he, but it's a little bit of like that like savant type. Yeah. Genius kind of thing. Yeah. Okay. And I feel like Limp Biscuit is where they, they should be in the like, in the halls of history for rock. I think they're super important. And I think that. I think that. they're being cherished like they should be. Yeah, like right now. Yeah, right now. There's a lot of bands like that right now. Creed. Have you seen the videos of their shit like coming back? I love it.

It's so cool, man. It's like finally, dude. Finally. These people are finally like, fuck yeah. And it's like for the longest time it was like you people were, you got made fun of for liking these bands. And now it's like, yeah, they're being praised again for the first time. I'm like, thank God. Which makes no sense to me ever for someone being made fun of for any music they like. Yeah, I know. It's like food. It's like. Like, you're going to make fun of me for going to eat at McDonald's or a fancy restaurant or that or a hot dog stand on the side of the road. It doesn't matter if it's weird, right?

Like how we could let like these music journalists type. Oh, definitely. You know, back then even it was like more influential if you, if pitchfork wrote something about you. Right. And it was good or it was bad. You were stamped as like a joke or not. We went through it all our whole career.

Yeah. And now it feels like it's finally like corrected itself where no one gives a fuck. I think so, man. I think people have, especially in music, have their own, they can, they have their own opinions more than ever right now. Yeah. And I think a lot of that is based on like, I do think that people don't necessarily read all, like, media is not nearly as like prevalent in music culture. Let me put it that way as it used to be, right, because of the internet. and just people can watch videos of bands live and interviews and stuff and make their own

assessments about shit. We're back in the day, like, the only way you got access to that was through magazines. There was only one opinion. Yeah. Now you can listen to hundreds. Right, which kind of leads you to just say, well, fuck all that. I'm just going to make my own opinion about this band or whatever. Yeah.

It's a really good thing. I think it's really great that people can just like what they like and not get super criticized for it. But it's cool to see that you're right, these bands like Lindbiskeye. get like when they put this that record out a few years ago me and tanner like freaked out and you know so many people in the world were like oh my god like they're back or whatever and i don't know it was just cool now they're doing it like big i know they're too i'm going to see them for the first time ever in six days we're at birmingham alabama amazing i'm so excited

it's a good show i cannot freaking wait dude i am like so excited i could see that tour though i'm going to go in the pit dude yeah i will be in the pit dude yeah i will be in the pit I don't care if I get recognized. I'm just going to... No, it'll be fun. I'm just going for one song at least. At least break stuff. Everyone will love it.

I think it would be great. I can't wait. And Creed too. Yeah. I was a huge Creed fan. I loved Creed. The whole, bro, I mean, all those three records, there were so many good songs. Yeah.

Like, outside of the hits, like every song was freaking awesome. Do you like Allison Chains? Yeah. I love Allison Chains. Tracker likes Allison Chains. He texted me like two years ago. I was like, man, I haven't listened to this stuff since like the 90s. And he was like, fuck, it's so good.

It's crazy because I hear a little Allison Chains in your music a little bit. For sure. I do. That's intentional. I mean, I'm not trying to, but I listen to him so much growing up that like, yeah. I just hear all that in your music in all the best ways. It's like, their unplugged is also the best. I think it's the best unplugged ever.

And there's so many good ones, but theirs was unbelievable. I mean, it's classic. The keel is pretty good, huh? Yeah, it's good. Feels good. Yeah. Is it hair of the dog? Did you go out last night?

No, I was saying, we drank, we drank a little bit last night, but it was like just, pure tequila. I swear it. I woke up in spring chicken this morning, man. It was very pure ingredients. Yeah. Where were you guys? We had a dinner at my, um, at Greg Thompson. He's a, he's the GM at our record label. Yeah. He lives up the hill a little bit and we had a dinner up there. That's nice. We're staying just in West Hollywood and just had a little nightcap at the hotel bar. Yeah. But I woke up feeling great this morning. How long are you in LA for? We got here yesterday morning and then we're here today and then we leave late tomorrow night for Seattle. For like album launch stuff?

Yeah. Cool. Somewhat. Yeah. Just knocking some stuff out, I suppose. You're killing it. The whole record feels like it's in the hard rock chart. I think so.

It's awesome. I haven't looked at it in a while. It looks good. Don't look at it. It looks good. Yeah. It's kind of like when you put it all in black. It's pretty cool, though.

No, I'm really proud of it, man. It seems to be doing really well. And I'm just very happy to feel accepted in the rock community because you know, I was, and I still am, but I did the country thing and I made country records for a few years. And it's just fun to feel like a kid again, the kid again, you know what I mean? Or just like the new thing, but to also have the blessing of people in the rock world, like you guys and all those just like anybody, any of those bands that I looked up to or even current bands and to see like every now and then like so-and-so mentioned you in their story. Like they put the song, you know, like we love the song. Just anything like that.

I'm like, cool. People are, I feel accepted. And that's important to me, I think, to feel I'm a people pleaser. So like, and that can be on the grandest scale. So I want people to like my shit, dude, for lack of a better term. So when I see old and current bands doing that, it makes me feel good. Honestly. Yeah.

I think so, too. I've honestly never questioned it. It feels like sometimes when you're, you're always kind of on an island when you're doing stuff. And it can feel like there's some club that you're not a part of. Yeah. I hate that feeling. But I don't think that that, I just don't think that exists. I think it exists in our feeling, like, if anything, like leading a movement of rock.

This record is a great example of it. And I love the feeling behind the, you know, the album cover. Is that actually a napkin you saved that someone actually wrote quit on it? Ten years ago. Wow. Yeah. And I kept it all, like, all these years. Like, I've moved, you know, apartments or homes, like four different times.

and it somehow made it through all of them. And now finally I have it like in a frame in my studio. Hell yeah. But yeah, somebody, like literally 10 years ago, me and a few other buddies were in Florida. There's a bar down there called Florida. I don't know if you've heard of it,

but it sits on the Alabama Florida line on the beach. And it's a really big bar. It's almost like this building, right? There's like big rooms, you know, in different things. And we were playing in this little small room, probably about the size of this room and acoustic songs that we had written originals nobody had any hits yeah so we were just playing original country songs songwriters and we had a little

tip jar and yeah in the in the jar when we emptied it that night at the bottom of the jar here's a tip a napkin that said quit yeah and so that that album i literally just took a photo of it with my phone sitting on my have like a ping pong table on my house and i just like tried to get it perfect and cropped it and just sent it and that's what the album ended up being was i love it it's awesome it really hits at the time i'm telling you man like we didn't think anything about it we laughed at it we were like damn somebody fucking, what a asshole, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's funny. But the more success I had almost, it was almost ironically, like the more chip on my

shoulder it gave me for some reason, like the more, not angry, but just the more inspired I was, because the more success I had, I guess maybe spitefully, the more I was like, jokes on that fucking asshole now, dude. You know what I mean? Like, to do something to somebody where at the time, I had nothing to lose. So, like, that meant nothing to me at the time. But yeah, I guess maybe there's a little. bit of spitefulness in there. And not anymore. I got nothing but love for them now. But like,

you know, I'd have a hit. And every day, it was on this little cork board. I'd walk into my little shitty little studio. And man, I bet I wrote like five number ones in this little shitty studio. And I walked by that napkin every single day. And like, yeah, just, just every day, I'd be like, wonder what they're doing right now. I don't know. That's a little bit of my, my, uh, what do you call that? Like, um, not poetic justice, but just spitefulness, I guess. But I'm not a very spiteful person with that one. I don't think it's spite. I think it's this like, reality check, that to me is like a physical manifestation of like a comment on someone's Instagram. Yeah. It's like, totally. Someone does something. It's an old school way, dude. Yeah,

the old school comment. For sure. The old school comment where it's like they didn't have to do that. They could have like just walked by the room and left or they could have not. To me, it's someone saying like there's some part of them that like probably wishes they could get up on a stage maybe and like maybe they quit. Maybe they quit. Yeah. I guarantee. What do you call it? projecting. Yeah, it's projection. Also, though, I do believe in like a higher power, right? Of course. There is like people who are acting on behalf of without knowing it. So like maybe that little thing is a spark that you needed to look at every day. Totally. To keep you, you know. Amuse, if you will. Yeah. And at our best, it's motivation. At our worst, we could call it spite. We could call it a

bunch of bad things. But I actually think it's like important to remember the, the bad comments are not actually born out of people's hate for us. It's actually people that don't know how to love us because they can't really like love themselves, you know? So like I always, have you been, have you gone to therapy? All the time. I was going to say, bro. That's a that's a therapist, thought right there. That's right. So here's why I went to therapy. I went to therapy because I never stopped and gave myself the license to make sense of the life that I had lived. Sure. And then when I went through my success and early successes in my band, you know, with Good Charlotte, it was an overtly positive experience. But because I hadn't unpacked it as I went along, which you have to do. Yeah,

definitely. Right. As you go along, you got to make sense of the world in every step of the way. Exactly. There were parts of it that I had labeled as bad and I had felt were a failure. And I had had come out of it on the first, you know, the first chapter, let's say the first, let's say like 18 to 28. We went on like 10 years of just grinding. 2930 kind of come down, you know, careers go up, they go down, they go up, they go down. Well, I didn't realize that they go up and then down and then up again. Right. I thought they went up and then they went down. And that was it. And on the other side of that was 2930. I felt like a failure. Right. And the whole thing, I was like, All that work, I thought I was, I had become someone.

I thought I was finally, I finally made it. I finally was special. And then I was down. No one really wanted to even fucking hear us. Well, of course they didn't. He'd been running for 10 years. Right. They were ready for something new.

Like, if you had stopped and unpacked it, you realize, like, there's moments that you have to, like, listen to, right? And lean into and back off. But I didn't know that that's how it worked. I thought, oh, this was just a magic trick or a lucky strike. and then now it's over. Right. And my wife was the first one that was like, she was like, I just think you aren't actually

looking at yourself the right way if you're special, if you love yourself, if you say, what does that all that matter? None of that matters. It's more about like, how do you feel about yourself? Maybe you need to go like talk to somebody and figure that out. Yeah. And then I started working on myself, going to therapy and realizing like, oh, yeah, I put way too much stock in my accomplishments as like that define me.

Right. Instead of, that's just something that I've done and it's great. Right. And it's awesome. But it doesn't round you out as a person. That's right. Yeah. And like that's where you get the whole picture where you can still celebrate your

accomplishments. Of course. And get after it. But what defines you has to be like the content of who you are every day. Right. And when they go, when your accomplishments become fewer and fewer, then, you know, you still have other things. define you, right?

And things you love. Right. And you have to look for those. Exactly. And recognize them, right? Yeah. And then those actually come back over here. And that's when the beginning of that journey and then a couple years into it, I was really

starting to get it. Me and my brother both were like, hey, you know what? Like maybe we just like let Good Charlotte breathe and who cares? Like the legacy is going to be decided by the people anyways, like the people that like the music. That's right. And like, let's go start something we really care about. So we start our.

our music company, and we start building stuff, and we get really into it. And then what happens? They all start working together. Like, you end up back at Good Charlotte going like, like, it's like the old Impala. It's like, we should, we should chrome this out and fix that. And then it starts to become again, like in the beginning, it becomes this like labor of love of this thing that you really care about. Yeah. And then you realize like, it's not back as zero. It's just in a different place and it's like. Mm-hmm. Season. Yeah. And I think it like was a whole healing process come all the way back around of like realizing like what actually matters is how you feel about what you're doing.

Right. And of course it's great when everybody loves it. Sure. And you can celebrate that. But like there are going to be things you do just for you that you get and it might take everybody a long time to get there. But you have to do things sometimes for the sake of how you feel about it. Sure. I think something like a long career, people that I admire, I see a little bit of both.

Like they have their hits, but then they also have things that they did just because they, they fucked with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes you get lucky and they love that too. Yeah, yeah. And sometimes they don't, and I think that's fine. But you also have a ton of experience and hits as a writer, which I think has given you some humility and wisdom as an artist.

I think so. I mean, I definitely, I will say that, I mean, I wrote, let's see, probably starting in like 2012, I probably wrote 1,500 songs before I wrote one for myself. That's pretty good. Yeah, I mean, but that's the Nashville way, right? You go in and you write a song every single day. And so, and at a time, I was writing 350 songs a year. How many songs do you have that aren't cut that you could, like, go back into the deep catalog

and pull? Hundreds. That's amazing. Yeah, dude. I mean, it would take me years to record. Yeah, or even just days to go comb through all the shit. But most of it was like you get better at everything, I believe. That's like being in the gym.

Yeah, yeah. And back in the day, like, I'll go listen to songs and be like, that was such a good idea. But we fucked it up. We wrote it so poorly. Which is funny because now I'll take an old idea that I wrote with somebody. Either track that person down and be like, hey, we both know how to write songs better now. We should rewrite this. or if they're you know if if that person moved away or something write a song and then text them and be like hey you you rewrote a song with us today congrats you know or something like that i've done that a few times but um yeah i think the the songwriting thing really helped from a musical aspect uh a lot of how i approach my my own uh sound and i think a lot of it was just getting a lot of the country or just getting a lot of things like stuff out of my system or just again like trial and error and just learning how to do things

And I think the more I dialed in how I wrote songs, without me even knowing it, was learning how to write hearty songs. Right. You know what I mean? So when I signed my record deal, I wasn't throwing my hands up in there, like, what do I want to sound?

Like, I just had been writing songs for so long. I was like, when I write a song that I think is great, this is what it sounds like and just trying to emulate that over and over and over again. Yeah. And this record, I feel like you've really hit your stride. But like this record feels like the full realization. into like the especially like a hearty yeah i think so party land i think so which is funny because i'm

i'm now i'm currently working on a country record like a great but i've told that i've said this a lot that this truly feels the most like natural this this right the the the the quit album was the easiest album to write it was just the most natural which i think means it was the most like myself and it took me three or four records to really learn that, I guess, or even like kind of figure that out. Like it's a fully developed artist that's been cooking for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. And growing.

And to me, the story of the napkin is the most important story. You could throw it away as this little moment that you just dismiss as like, yeah, that happens to all of us. Right. But no one says it enough. Yeah, it happens to all of us. Everyone has that moment. We all had that person that was for whatever reason.

But like, we needed that person. in the hero story, you need the villain. Yeah. You need the person that makes you the hero. And like, if we don't treat it like a comic book or a hero story, then it's like to me, I'm like, well, what's the movie? Like, what's the scene in the movie? If you don't see yourself having a biopic one day, then I don't think you're reaching

high enough and dreaming big enough. I agree with you on that. As an artist. Yeah. Because why else are we here? Yeah. To do great shit and believe that we could do. do it as kids born in these small towns and not really that important to anybody and who wants

to hear what we have to say, what are, you know, like, we could accept that as like what we're labeled as or we could believe that there's the potential to do something that will affect, again, some other kid who otherwise wouldn't pick the guitar up and try to express themselves. Yeah. And I think that this record, even just the title, it's like the full circle. full-grown, like, flag in the ground. There's no looking back now. If you ever questioned it, you know, I would say,

no questioning it anymore. Yeah, I think so. Now it's like, what are the next three records, four records, five records? This is the legacy. And you've gotten all the way to where I think you wanted to go to jump off. And you're just, it's just the beginning. I know, that's what, that's, when I hear you talk about like,

like, 10 years and stuff like that, And I'm, it doesn't freak me out, but I'm like, I just think about like the roller coaster, you know, that I have a head because I'm six years, six years in as an artist. I guess you would. Like I signed my deal like six years ago. Yeah. And I know people have these long careers and I'm like, man, I have no idea the peaks and valleys or like the music I'm going to make. You know what I also think is funny is like nine inch nails. Pretty Hate Machine was 1989. Yeah. And their biggest album, like their notorious album was with teeth. And I think that was like 2006. Yeah. 17 fucking year. into his career. That's crazy to me. I can't even imagine in 11 years. Like what if in 11 years I have my like flagship record, which is so... It's possible though. I know. It's just, it's crazy to think about. How do you stay inspired that long? I think just from experience where if I look back at 20, you know, we've been a band since 96. So it's a 28 years, right? If I look back across 28 years. One thing that I think is why we're still together is because we're still together. We started in high school and we want to be together. Yeah. Like we want to be married.

Yeah. I've been married. I've been married 14 years this year with my wife 18. Why are we still together? Because we want to be together. Right. So we make decisions that reflect that versus not that. Right. So like if you take care of yourself, right? And some of it's health and well-being and all that. But some of it actually is just like trust yourself. So when you're going down the road and someone's trying to talk you into something and it doesn't feel right, listen to that. Absolutely. Take care of your fans. I find with bands, we all, those are the people we live to communicate with. And we're not always going to agree sometimes. Like some fans will be like, but then they come along eventually if you stick to your guns artistically. Yeah. But like the rest of it, the music business can, the music business has a funny way

of making the really good people feel like they're really bad. Music business is funny, man. They have a way of making you feel like any other way than like just be yourself and stay true to it. And I think like you do live shows that you care about.

I can tell. I can see it. Just keep doing that. Yeah. Make sure that the show is what you wanted to be. Dude, 100%. And then the fans will love it. Absolutely.

I agree with you 100%. I think that's a huge part of my growth has been like being, very mindful of every single aspect of the live show. Like song order and song selection, even like production and shit that's going on on screens behind you that you're never going to see but that everybody else is and just everything like that, making sure the fans are taking care of and by that, like, the best experience they can have. Get their money's worth. Exactly. When they come, they're like, that was a great. Dude, because they are, I mean,

the fans are why you are successful. That's it. 100% That is why. Yeah, I agree. And that's cool that you said that, take care of your fans. That's a good reminder because, I mean, it's true. Like, when you have, like, a, not a cult following, but like a die-hard fan base, that's the coolest thing in the world. And to think, like, just those, that progression of going from 500 cat rooms to 1,000, then to 2,000, then to 5,000, then 10, and then 20. And that's because of your fans, you know. And they share it with other people. That's why. Yeah, they go home and they're like, bro, you missed out. That's your number one.

The next time he comes to town, we're getting a group together and we're going. And that's how you build it. That's it. And even down to like the merch. Yeah. Right? You're cool, dude. You bought that shirt somewhere because you saw it and was like, oh, that shit's tight.

Or this is the thing I say to artists all the time. I might sound like I'm anti-music business. I'm not. I'm in the music business. I'm pro artist. Yeah. Pro artist led. If the artist leads, we will be successful.

Yeah. We have to listen to the instincts of the artist. So if I'm going to go in an office, and let some guy that I wouldn't let pick my shoes out. I'm gonna'amena. And, like my music, my hair can't change with me and has to be able to keep my rhythm.

For so, Potion Nine, of Sebastian Professional, has all what my hair needs. Nutrition Profunda. Protection against the encrespaid. 99% less of rotura and Puntas Abietas, Bajo Control. New Potion Nine of Sebastian,

the secret professional, of who not seein' tendences, but of who they're not. Convirt your passion in a business with Shopify and bathe records of with the form of pay with a better conversion of the world. Has you heard it. The Meregoregaping. The best thing of Pago of Shopify facilitates the purchase in your site

web, in the networks, and in quite a place. That is music for your ears. No, you'll be more vets. Your business will be a super-exit to Shopify. Empeza your period of Prueva for a

euro a month in Shopify point slash my manager's over here

and he's laughing his ass off pick my song yeah then I'm making the wrong

decision yeah because your fans show up and they fuck with you and it's not just your music

there's a vibe right there's a like we would hang out with you like it's human nature right

you see a dude and you're like oh that guy looks cool he's got his own thing

going on and then you talk and you're like I knew I'd fucking like like that guy

he's cool. You look at like Luke Combs, like how he was like a man of the people. That's why they fell in love with that guy. And he's just himself. Yes. And he stays himself. Yep.

From when he was playing bars to now in stadiums, and I've known Luke a while, he's the same guy. Yeah. You just, that's what you get. Yeah. He's comfortable with it,

even when he's not. Yeah. Right? He's just honest. If he's not comfortable, he might say like, he might not be as comfortable getting all the attention, but he understands it and he wears it well and he's like a man of the people but that is who he is

yeah right the same way of a fan looks at you and he and they fuck with your vibe when they buy the t-shirt at the concert if your fingerprints aren't on that t-shirt if it doesn't feel like you put something into that t-shirt it's going to get disconnected over time yeah and and some artists they get into you know arena stadiums and they stop looking at their business and thinking what experience is my fan going to have when they buy this? Does it portray who I am, right? Yeah. My art and what I have to say and who I am as a person and all that. The things that make the fans engage with you and love you. Like, yeah. It's a physical representation of that. And like that's from making the record, you have to try, no matter how overwhelmed you are by the size of the success and all the things that come with it with, you know,

it gets busier and busier and busier and you've got to answer more questions and it can be overwhelming, especially if you're a kid with a low self-esteem. Like that's where I found the hardest thing for me in those moments of peak success with the flow of information that was just dumping on me was keeping up with it and not being overwhelmed by it because I was emotionally flooded by it because I didn't think it was that I deserved it or it was real or that I earned it. So anyways, the minute you let go of the process of shutting it all out making that record or shutting it all out and looking at that merch and going like,

I fuck with that. That's dope. Let's do that. Let's do that. Or here's my idea. And you just let it start going further and further away is when it starts to get disconnected. And the fans feel it too. So I always tell artists like stay hold the art like you're holding it now.

Just hold it tight. It's your baby. And if everything has to stop so you can make that first, then like it likely won't have to stop. but for a moment sometimes you think it does stop it and you realize like oh i just needed a minute everything's on track but i think that like it's funny because when you say six years in i actually see you more like 12 or more years in because i don't think that the artist journey started when you put the first hardy record out yeah sure i agree with that born back there kind of like we were saying

with like writing songs and stuff right yeah i agree with that even if i didn't i didn't know it at the time I didn't know because I didn't even have intention. I just wanted to be a songwriter. Yeah, my voice, I guess, or whatever, like how I write songs, how what I have to say. And just general vibe, for lack of a better term, started, you're right, a long time before that. I just didn't start doing all the touring and all the, you know, all the crazy shit until. Well, people start demanding it. Yeah.

You have to. Yeah. It's funny because, like, you don't know. We, none of us know what we're going to become because some people start their band and they think that's it. and they end up being the biggest songwriter because like that's what life, that's what God knew they were. Right.

And, you know, life has a funny way of getting us where we need to be. Yeah. By putting what we can handle in front of us. And as long as we walk forward and we do it, we end up where we need to be. Yeah, it's funny too. I know there are a lot of hit songwriters in Nashville

that were artists at first. Red Aiken's, Josh Thompson. There's all these guys that have, 20 number ones. Yeah. And at first they were like, they were doing the artist thing and like it didn't work out. And now, and it's funny to think about those guys. And I'm sure when they got dropped from their deal and didn't get picked back up or whatever it was, they made the decision to stop putting out records.

I wonder how many of them thought like my career is over. And then they end up, you know, writing 20, 30 number ones and having a, you know, an insane career from that. And that's how they end up, you know, that's their sunset. that situation. Yeah. But it's not to say that one of them might not pick the guitar back up and put a song out and have a huge hit at a later date or older age or like we never know what their scope of possibility is always there.

Especially now. Yeah. It's so wide open for shit like that. It's different. It's on country radio, especially country, but any genre, but I just am thinking about country, anybody could have a hit. I swear to God, like, I think Lone Star could come back. Yeah.

if it was the right song could literally have a hit on the radio. Absolutely. It's crazy that that's the thing. But I love that. I think it's cool that there's a lot of wonder or a lot of possibility left out there. Well, it goes to show you where country music is at now and how open and accepting it is to just like anything goes. Yeah. Because I actually think that the audience of country music literally the number one goal, it feels like to have a good time.

Yeah. It is. Just to make people feel good. Yeah. Relief. Yeah, it's funny because it's like even if that is, like I have a song called Give Heaven Some Hell. Yeah. And like that makes, that's a release or a relief, either one for people.

And in that, they feel good. Yeah. Even though it is sad, it's, it's intention is not to make them feel angry or to feel, you know what I mean? To feel sad even, but to just to make them feel good about something. That's, that is a lot of, that's country music. I think so. Yeah. I love country music.

Even break up songs at closure, you know, like anything. that, yeah, it just makes people feel, have some sort of relief or release or just feel good. Yeah. What would you say the hardest thing you've faced is, would you say it's the early part trying to start? Or would you say it's trying to now manage what you've accomplished and go forward? So far, the most frustrating part of my journey was my first three years of being a published songwriter in Nashville because that was that's the most down that I that I was uh because you sign a publishing deal you think it's all starting yeah and like oh I'm gonna get a cut in like a month like this is gonna be awesome and then you go a year and you don't get one yeah and then you go two

years and you don't get one and then you go three and I think for me that that was the biggest uh so far I mean I've been very fortunate I have a great record label and they don't give me they kind of let me do what I want you were talking about that I have a great experience with my label. Yeah, they get artists, though. They understand. For sure, Big Loud does. They do really well at that.

That was the hardest part of my career so far was the beginning. Yeah. And, you know, of course, hindsight is 2020, and I was just what I really was doing was learning how to write songs and learning how to keep going and push through situations. How it works. Exactly. All that. Yeah.

But it was really difficult. It's like college almost. Yeah. Like getting to know how the whole thing functions. Yeah. Is a real thing. Yeah. definitely. Some people get it faster. Some people it takes, if it took you three, I have seen guys that it took six or seven because they're fighting against it and they're not actually getting like somewhere in that first year or two, you actually have to understand like, oh, there's a way here that works. Yeah. And then you start to kind of get and then by year three, something broke. Yeah, something clicks. Yeah. Something clicked with me like my, it was my fourth year. So I got my first, my first,

publishing deal was a three-year deal and I got zero cuts. I got none. Wow. And then, the first year of my second publishing deal, I got one, I got two cuts. Yep. Which would be fourth. My fifth year, I got 40. You moved up, double a single A. But something clicked from it. It was like everything from like the process to the patience. I don't know what it was, man, but there, I remembered just feeling like catching fire in a way that like, I don't know. It was like my songs got better. And like my attitude and my jadedness and all that stuff got better. I swear that all has something to do with it, man. Like you said, like there's people that just, you're mad at it's, it's, it's, it's everybody's fault but yours kind of thing. You're stuck in your own way. And that bitterness

there's humbling kind, the Tim McGraw song, there's a line in there. It says, bitterness keeps you from flying. And I was like, dude, that is like the coolest line ever, because it's, it's the truth. And I think I just finally let it go. And I think getting that one cut, Tyler Farr was the artist and it actually was a single. I think it peaked at like 72 on the chart. But getting one was enough for me to be like, okay, I'm not crazy.

It can be done. Maybe I should just chill and let, you know, trust the process. And I swear after that, it just, the floodgates opened. It was really cool. It's awesome. I see it with artists because we're heavy in artist development. So we work with artists. And the minute they let go of their ideas,

of how it was supposed to go. And they just let it go. And then just go forward and do everything they can do. Just like they were. Yeah. Except for they were trying to control some outcome. Right. That I don't even know what that means.

Impossible. You can't control an outcome. You can't, you can only look at results. Yeah. We always say like, watch the game tape. Yeah. There's some results. We'll look at them.

Okay, we ran that play. Let's run that one again. That one we ran three times. It didn't work. Yeah. Unless we have some. emotional need to run that play again, which we can, but do we want to because it didn't work three or four times? That one worked every time. Let's just run that play and let's try this new play.

Like, it's kind of like that, you know, and I think when you let go of the results, leave it up to something else and you keep doing the work you're doing, it's like work smarter and harder. But just letting it go, yeah, knowing that you cannot control. Yeah. The irony in that of how things will start happening when you just quit worrying about what when things are going to start happening and you know one of the other things i really like about you you're a good winner what do you mean there's a way of being a good winner when you win so you get a hit song you have you have number one songs right like that's a consistent winning too you have done it more than once um or you have sold-out shows right big shows or you have moments where everybody's looking to not stand on the post

and call out all the people that wronged you or that got, you know, that didn't believe, but actually just say thank you. Yeah. And like, include everyone in the win, right? There's something about that when we see winners and they win and they say, you know, thank you or they say, you know, like they say something inspiring that make you feel like you could also touch that. You could win as well.

Yeah. If you do what they did instead of chopping heads off. There's something about that that I think is super important to winning multiple times. Definitely. You know? Yeah, sure. And having people participate in the win that makes it fun for all of us versus the opposite, which I know why when I see people that are almost angry when they win.

Yeah. I get it. They suffered. There's a lot of suffering involved in this. We suffer a lot in lots of different ways. But when we win, we have to remember. that everyone watching is waiting to decide if they are happy that we won or if they're mad we won. And it's not that you just want everyone to like you. That's not it. It's that you want to

inspire people to keep trying as well. Yeah, sure. Because it's healthy for the sport. Yeah. If everybody's playing, you know what I mean? If everybody's playing and everyone's competing, it's good for all of us. And so I think there's something about the winners I see. It's likely just a big part of who you are, especially I think humility in early life kind of lends itself to humility later in life. Definitely. And so I think when you've had to work really hard and you know what it feels like to work a shitty job or, you know, all the things that we've had to do in the early years, they inform how we interact with the people that are still trying to have their first win. And we need them to keep trying to have their first win. I think there's something about that that

like has made me like and my brother we talk about when we look at artists and we talked about you how they act out in the world yeah you know what i mean need the guys who are inspiring everybody else to keep trying right because that's what we need it's funny that i've told people this a lot the biggest stars that i've met especially in music have been the kindest most humble dude it's just a thing like i can tell you like in country blake shelton luke brian eric church uh duke's are all like just the nicest, most humble, normal. They can't, like you can tell, it's, it's who they are. People and they, and they, post Malone is like that.

Yeah, he's very nice. Dude. And they just, that you win when you're like that. And then when you win, yeah, like you said, you're not seeking vengeance and you're not also not taking all the credit like, you know, for yourself and knowing that you have people around you that. It takes a village. Yeah.

And how hard people work for you and stuff. But it just, it's amazing the people that have the most, success are people that recognize that. Yeah, because in the locker room, it is the whole team. Definitely. And then out on the field, if you're the quarterback or you're the star receiver or the running back, you may get those moments like that the linemen don't see. Exactly.

But they opened up a whole five people wide so you could run through it, right? I think that in life in general. I think that too, like weirdly always say that to my kids. I'm always like, we're all this little team. So when you have a goal, it's our goal, and we all work together. and if we're going to fight, let's not fight out on the field. Let's go in the locker room and like hash it out. Right.

So we can figure out what the play is. Yeah. You know, because elbows are going to get thrown on the field. You know, we're going to run a play wrong or, you know, and like I think about that in business too when we're working in teams and our companies. Like there are going to be plays where like we haven't run this one enough to not step on each other's feet or throw an elbow. But like, let's like, let's keep it contained in the, you know, backstage.

can work out whatever we got to work out yeah um it's a thing tour's happening yeah what's next uh we we have man we we actually country album on the way there's there's no concept or anything but uh just good songs yeah just just country songs you know i will always put out country songs like i don't think i'll ever make the full the full switch um but yeah that we've got some shows some cool shows coming up we're doing red rocks uh in october sick i'm playing the missus i'm playing the missus to be state baseball stadium. Sick. In September.

That one's personal. Yeah. That was like very intentional. Yeah. So I'm excited about that. Other than that, man, just working on new music and just thinking of the next,

what the next thing is going to be after that. Awesome. Well, I have to say, as a fan, getting to sit with you, it's everything I hope it would be. Oh, man.

Thank you. I appreciate that. It's really nice when that happens. That's awesome. I thank you for saying that. Congrats on all the success. Thank you, brother. Man,

come back sometime down the road. I would love to. Yeah, it'd be great. Awesome, bro. Thanks. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of Artist Friendly. If you really liked it, you can follow, like, subscribe to the show, anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support, and we'll see you next time.