Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Jacoby Shaddix of Papa Roach

Episode Date: January 10, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Jacoby Shaddix of Papa Roach. More than 20 years since their inception, Papa Roach continue to thrive. Their 2000 album Infest seems to grow bigger every year as new people discover songs like “Last Resort” and “Blood Brothers.” They also remain on the road in support of their 2022 LP Ego Trip, including wrapping the second leg of their own Rockzilla tour and supporting Shinedown across the U.S. last year. “I’m not good when shit’s just calm, quiet, still — I need some chaos,” Shaddix told Alternative Press in 2022. “I’ve got too much energy inside, and if I just sit stagnant, it drives me fucking mad. I need that release — that’s why I go run all the time. That’s why I go to the gym, because I’m an energetic being. So performing is such a healthy experience for me. I get to explode, physically and emotionally.” ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'll be talking to the lead singer and frontman of two-time Grammy-nominated multi-platinum selling band Papa Roach. Let's go. That's my kind. I don't want to bed times. I don't want to have bad. One of my favorite things that you do, you probably don't even know, like, how many people you probably help with this thing that you do. Oh, what is it? on Instagram you make these lists of things you're grateful for yeah and I don't know if anyone's told you that I'm sure some people have you probably get DMs and stuff like that but I read those all the time and I've found it I've found like this simple thing that you may be doing for yourself yeah is like actually become this like I've probably read however many times you've

done it I've probably read I don't know if it's 50 times or 30 times that's sick right on I've probably read 80% of them, you know? I like to think I probably read every single one of them. You might have. I think gratitude is like one of the key ingredients for happiness. Oh, yeah. It's a, like, that's factual. You know, I've been doing a gratitude list for some years now.

Some sober friends of mine back in the day had suggested that I become part of this gratitude list. And so I did that. And it was an email chain going on, going around for some years. and it's just been part of that habit for me, you know, part of that recovery life. And it is, like you said, man, it's, it is medicine straight up. And, you know, social media can be like, it can be like doom and gloom sometimes, you know. And I just, at one point I was, I saw my friend Clint, a guitar player for Seven Dust. He was doing a gratitude list.

And he was posting it in his stories. And I was like, you know what, man, I'm just going to take my gratitude public. I'm just going to do it because I've been doing it for years. You know, I was kind of struggling with social media and how I would engage with social media. Yeah, like what's your version? Yeah, who am I on this platform? Right. Totally. Yeah. And, you know, one thing that I've found is like gratitude is it's, it's the medicine. And I see a lot of people out there struggling. And I was like, you know, I'm just going to share this stuff and maybe maybe inspire somebody else to jump on some gratitude. And maybe that's what it is. And so just

bring it something positive to the feed, right? And I have gotten a lot of really positive feedback from it, you know, from people and stuff like. And I know it's not like click bait worthy. And so, you know it's like and sometimes i'm in my head i'm like oh man like i'm not going to go back and see how many people like this like just yeah disciplined about this thing and not let it be ego based let it be selfless and honest and authentic and that feels that way did yeah it is and i just get real with it man i just i throw the real out there when i started reading that it was the first time i felt like i really like i mean we've we've known each other over the years for sure like no no doubt we've spent time together.

But I actually felt like I knew you. Oh, yeah. It's a deeper look inside. Yeah. You know, I really am like, and especially too, I share a lot about my family on there. Yeah. You know, it's like high on gratitude, right? It's like, of course I'm grateful for my family, my wife, my kids, this lovely family

we got. And there's lots to be celebrated within that life, you know, and just the successes of my children, the failures of my children, the failures of myself, the successes of myself, you know, really just kind of like digging in and and refocusing my mindset because I have a tendency to wake up with what I call fear of impending doom. Yeah. It's like, it's such a great way of putting it. Yeah, man. It's like sometimes I'm like, and I had to force myself because I was for a while just like first thing I would wake up and I would pick up my phone, right? And I would just start scrolling and just be in that world. And I'm like, no, this is this is not working out for me. And so

it's part of my, you know, get up, get real routine in my life. And, you know, I don't always hit the mark on this thing. But it's like, I'm willing to give it a go. I got to throw down. I haven't done a gratitude list and probably about a week and a half, man. It's time to do another one, dude. I'm like, sometimes I'll do them like every day. Yeah.

And then sometimes I'll go a week without it. And then I'm like, all right, now my attitude is starting to get a little stanky. You forget sometimes. Oh, yeah. You forget where the medicine is. How soon we forget. Yeah. Isn't it crazy how quick we can forget to do something that makes us feel so good when it comes to fear-based anything?

I think that we all probably suffer from, especially artists, we all probably suffer from very similar afflictions. We're not that different. Like our stories, if you line them all up, are probably similar stories, right? So that's interesting to me because it's like when you think about especially bands and rock bands, and the era of music that we all come from tended to be emotional. There was a lot of anger. We were working a lot of shit out. Yep.

That we didn't even know. Absolutely. So we all tend to be like afflicted with the same thing, even though we feel a lot of times like we're alone in it. And we're not because if we walk in the room with all these people, if we all actually just shared, everyone would be like, oh, I wake up with that same feeling every day. Impending doom.

You know it. You know it. And then our anxiety will. attach it to any given thing in a given week. So this week, I'm anxious and I'm stressed about this. I won't even remember what I was anxious or stressed about in a year today. Right. Like whatever I'm stressed about today, a year from now, I'm not even going to remember. I couldn't even try to remember. Yep. That's what I always try to remind myself. But that weight, the waking up in the morning, I don't know why the mornings. And maybe it's like, maybe it was when I was a kid, the mornings

weren't great but like the morning is the time to do the things that make you feel good oh yeah because it tends to be kicks off the day man yeah off the day good have a good morning you want a good day dude yeah that's what i'm going for you know i feel you on that though man when you're talking about the the the similar affliction or whatnot and the struggle that people deal with and what they walk through it's real man and and everybody has their own version of of their baggage and what they're dealing with um it's important for me to use the tools that I've been given as an adult, right, to like do this adulting thing and really like change my perspective. And since I've been able to do that, man, it's like I've really had a, there's been an upswing just in my existence, my connection with

people, my ability to look at my, you know, to look at myself in the mirror and be cool with the person looking back at me, you know, because there's, there's been some years where that wasn't the case, you know? And so it's good. to be good sometimes you know what i mean it's not always a wreck and that's like i'm just so grateful for that you know and it's actually i think it makes a lot of sense to me to hear it from you because if you look at your success in the world you could almost track is there a point at what point do you feel like you figured that out because i could see popper rocha's success you guys are having the last few years and this year last year the last few years you guys have had i wouldn't even

say it's like this wave of the bands and the thing that's that everyone says all this all these bands have come back you guys never have never stopped working your asses off yeah we've been working hard man but you could argue that papa roach is bigger today than you've ever been and that it's this culture you've built touring and and all the things you do but can you see alignment with that success with your personal growth and your personal success? Oh yeah, absolutely, man. I think, you know, when we first came in, it was like nothing could stop us. You know, we were just getting after it. It's like, young guys. You remember that era, dude? It was just like, let's go, man, the era of the big record deal. Life is great. You know, put out the record, go do it. We sold millions.

It's funny. I was cleaning out stuff from the closet the other day. And I found I have the, this might be the world's smallest triple platinum plaque. It's literally like this big. Yeah. It's three CDs. It's all it's all, it's all, infest, three million. You know, but then in the process of going and becoming successful, I just got, I got loose and reckless, man. I got really into drinking and partying, and that was just, it ruled my life. And, you know, I think my career and my life reflected that, obviously, you know, it's like the success of the second album wasn't so big and the genres were changing

and, you know, the stripes and the vines were coming in. It's kind of that era. Yeah, well, you could say it wasn't as big as that first shot out of the canon. Oh, yeah. But that's actually if we stopped and we said all things being like nature. Yeah. That's actually a natural. Yeah.

Like we don't know it at the time. We're like, why did the second album? Yeah. The first album. I know. And it's almost like we didn't have like a sound mind sometimes sitting with us going, no, this is actually a process. Yeah.

Like it's going to do this and then this and then this if we stay on track. Yeah. But you work hard. Yep. You play hard. Yep. And then you live harder in those moments of like, how do I make sense of this and how do I deal with this, all this? First of all, I'm just trying to wrap my head around being someone in the world when I

wasn't a year ago. Yeah. And then I'm also trying to wrap my head around what it means to like be able to like live a life that feels like I'm at Disneyland. So I feel like I hit the lottery. Yep. We know now we didn't hit the lottery. We worked our asses off. Absolutely. Yeah, true, true. But it wasn't like some luck. We can say, oh, I feel lucky. Yeah. And we can feel lucky to our fans and all that. But like, we worked really hard and we got to give some credit to that and own it a little bit so that we can feel respectable and not like we're just some lottery winner.

Yeah, absolutely. Because your music's good. I mean, okay, here's a question. So before you drop your first record, right? Yeah. How long were you guys a band before you drop your first record? The first major label record. Yeah.

So the first thing we did was like an indie EP. Yep, like two years after we started. We started in 96. Okay. Our first record came out in 2000. Yeah, so you guys put the work, it's sweat equity. Yeah. You guys put those years of work in and then it, you got that shot.

But I remember, and if I had like being a grown up and if I had like a kid my age doing the same thing, I would give some information to them. Because I remember feeling like from 96 to 2000, it all felt like a lottery. Yeah. Like, oh, when are we going to get our break? Yeah. big break. Yeah. And big breaks happen if we're describing opportunity that comes to us by going forward

and meeting it on the road. That could be described as a big break. Yeah. But we had to go down the road and do the work to get to that opportunity. So we have to like, we have to find the middle ground of saying, I feel lucky, but I also am going to own that I work hard and then I'm valuable. My ideas are valuable. So that's the thing I had to learn how to do was go.

I'm not just a dumb kid. That's how I felt. Yep. And that was the work I had to do after, making sense of the success of it, where I did for a long time just think, I felt like, oh, I just hit the lottery. Now, I better not let this go. Right. So I better hold on to this thing. And that's not a good way to live.

You got to kind of like design the house you want to live in. Yep. So you have to stop sometimes and go, is this the right move? How do we feel about this? But if you're just afraid of losing something, you'll say yes to everything. Yeah. And you'll just run, run, run, run. you won't enjoy anything because it's fleeting.

Yep. I think there's like a middle ground where we have to, where reality and imagination and the surreal world we live in as artists meet. Yeah. And we kind of get rooted in like some reality. So in 2000, when the record came out, it did feel like magic. It did feel like,

because we were broke too for so long. And then you suddenly have some money. Yeah. And you're like, I can literally go to the ATM and get. money and I can go out to eat and I can do things that I never could do. So, and I was working two jobs at all times and just trying to like make it all work. And then through my 20s, it was the same thing. I feel like you probably had the same experience. I worked hard. I played hard. I was always in fear of losing it. And then I started, and I did have my moments where I was living

harder and medicating all this confusion. It's like you got shot out of a cannon with no parachute and you're just going through the air trying to like grab. Yeah. You're looking at your friends flying next to you. Yeah. What are we doing? What are we doing?

This is kind of fun, but what do we do? Yeah. I feel you, dude. It's a terrifying ride, man. It really was in the beginning fun, right? Of course. I totally get what you're saying where it's like we have this wild dreamer in us, this like unrealistic like outside the box dreamer but then there's this realist that worked the day job

and that balance between the two and then having this opportunity to become successful and then became successful and then where's your toolkit after that it's like all right I'm going to build my wings on the way down I guess here we go let's build it yeah man we didn't have anybody around us man we were uh you know we watched some of our friends you know come up and then become even more successful in their, you know, their trajectory was this. And I'm like, oh, well, why did our second record have to flop? You know, and I'm like, dude, we sold almost a million records and it was considered a flop. You know, it's kind of like. And it was a cool record. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, man. Which maybe. Appreciate it. And which, like, like, you never know the value of things until later.

Yeah. So, like, would you go back and change that second record? I don't know if I would. Hmm. That's an interesting question. Like, would you go back and change. that second record because to me it's part of the Papa Roach legacy and where you are today I think is like how many bands can say that they're standing where you guys are today was there something in that record that caused you to be who you are today and if you could would you go back and change it would you make if you could wave a wand and say I want I'm going to make my second record bigger than my first do like is there a chance if you did that that you wouldn't have the life you have today yeah right Yeah, you can't go back and change those things, man.

I hear you on that. I like, I don't know, man. It's like, I look back at that period in time and it's just really when like my alcoholism took fully a hold of me. Right. And it was just like I was just lost and didn't even know it. And so it wasn't like I was phoning shit in. You know what I mean?

I was never doing that. It was like I would always get on stage, throw down and do the deal. But it was just like it just kind of felt like I was floundering a little bit like that. And honestly, can't go back and change the record. Nah, wouldn't do it. No. But maybe some of the lifestyle choices I was choosing at the time. Sure.

But, you know, I had to take the lumps that I had to take to figure it out. You know what I'm saying? Like I had to fall down the stairs, bang my head, break my arm, bust my head, you know, to go, all right, maybe this ain't right. You know, next thing you know, I'm like, let's get sober. Let's try that out. I remember I called my producer. See if that works.

Howard Benson. I'm coming down. We're about to make our third record. And I call him up on the phone. I'm all, what's up, man? Just getting ready to get in the car, dude, coming down, you know. I'm going to start this record with you.

I'm letting you know, man. Like, I'm getting sober. Today is my first day of sobriety. And he's like, you're fucking doing what? He's all that's what's wrong with all you fucking rock bands now. Getting sober. You want to live longer. And I just was like,

I'm fixing to come fucking beat your face. I'm getting on I five now. I'll be there in a few hours like fuck you you know he hit my buttons you know but then I think that that process with him and I was just like a raw nerve honestly like of years of just getting after it to just going all right I'm going to try to get my life together and making that record it was a it was a battle and he really drew some I believe some great performances out of me and the band and it was a very inspired time and you know that was like all right coming off this maybe failed record and then we're about to release this next one we got dropped by dream works at that time uh we got shuffled over to uh what was

it geffen i think at geffen interscope and uh it was an uphill battle over there it was like because we were watching like nine inch nails get dropped marilyn manson get dropped it was Weasers get dropped. Jimmy, like all these bands, and we're like, okay, I guess maybe we're next. And then we sold like a million and a half records. And they're like, no, we're going to keep our hands on you for a little while, guys. Yeah. You know, so it doesn't always work out the way that I plan.

But, you know, when I make plans, God laughs. So, you know what I mean? Is there a song on the third record that you feel like captures that, that time in your life that you still, like, feel connected to in a way that it feels like special? Absolutely. Absolutely. The song Scars. Oh, dude. One of the great. Yeah. Thank you, man. What a song. Thank you.

That song was, it just was so different. And that's the path that I was on in my life. I was like, I am reinventing my life, period. And I remember Jerry and Tobin sent me the demo for it. And it was, the chorus was in a major key. And I never really sang on major key stuff. It was always minor and heavy and dark. And, you know, that wasn't my. cup of tea and then I was like, all right, I'm gonna give it a shot, you know? And I was feeling inspired at the time. I think at this time the used was out. They just came out and they were fucking killing it. I was a huge fan of those guys. Yeah. And a lot of their stuff is major key. Yeah. And I was inspired by that. And I'm like, all, well, cool. Like, let's just see.

Like, give it a go, you know? And it was like just skyscrapers shot out of the speakers. You know what I mean? Like after we cut the vocal, did the song, we were all like, this is so different. I don't know if our fans. are going to love it or hate it, but I, this, I love this. This is, we're on to something here. And I remember when we turned it into the label, Jimmy Iivine at the time, he was, he was, he was, is he still in Interscope, at Interscope? No, not anymore. He's at, sorry, beats Apple. Yeah. All right. So he was at Interscope at the time. And, uh, sorry? He's on a boat. Yeah, yeah, he's on a boat. Yeah, he's out there floating on a boat. So, uh, he heard the track and

heard the song Scars and he was like, I don't know, man. I feel like you guys need to go back into the studio and recut it and make it, make it kind of more in the vein of it's been a while by Stained. And I was like, I mean, that's a great song. I love that. That's an awesome song, but it just doesn't feel like it's in the same lane. It's like, that's totally acoustic. This has got a beat.

I'm like, this was kind of one of our first forays in the music business where the record exec was like, no, I don't think you got it right. I think you need to go back in. And at this point in time in our career, I'm like, you know, I'm willing to play a ball because usually I'm like, fuck you. Yeah. So we go in the studio. We cut what proceeded to be the single-handedly most lackluster average white guy rock drivel that we've ever recorded in our lives. It sounded like just bad nickel back.

Like just dime store nickel back. It just was bad, you know. Nickelback, they write hits, they're great, you know what I'm saying? But they just missed the mark. I remember carrying this thing into the studio or into the label and turning it in. And I was just like, in my mind, I'm just going, dude, if you like this, I have no idea. You just ain't got no fucking taste, man. And turned it in and he was like, you know, guys, I think you're right.

Like on the first version of the song, I think that was, that's the money right. Let's go with that. And we went with it, you know, but it was one of those experiments that we took the suggestion and it didn't work out right. So with the OG shit. It's a legacy song. Absolutely. It's so cool to hear that, to hear you say that that song, that you connect to it in that

time of your life because it's such a important pop-a-roach song. Oh, yeah. And a lot of times we'll get like resentment towards our big songs. Right. Find artists do that sometimes. Yeah. It's almost like a rejection of like people's love in a weird way. but like when I hear that it makes me happy because I love that song oh yeah dude thank you man

that's like it's it's in our set we don't play a show you have to without playing that song i mean i mean we're like we do some of these festivals in europe it's like metal festivals yeah and we're like do we want to like pull some of the mellow or stuff out and i'm like guys nah we just go up there and just be who we are like that's yeah i'm not i mean yeah we'll throw a couple other heavier songs in there but it's like we got to play the classics man And that is definitely one of the classics. Even so, that's a part of the personality of Papa Roach. And you guys have earned your place on that stage on any heavy festival, rock festival.

You could go play any festival. And you could go tour with any band. You could tour with the heaviest metal band. And you could tour with Nickelback. Yeah. And you could tour with Good Charlotte. Like you guys could tour with anyone, but you had to earn that ability to do that. Absolutely.

You never boxed yourselves into like, this is what. what we are. It feels honest. Yeah. And I'm really happy for you guys. Appreciate it, man. It's a good place to be in honestly right now with the band and what we're doing and and what we're up to. You know, it's like we've had some interesting highs and some interesting lows, right? But it's like in the industry that's forever changing and we've watched it, these different amalgamations of the music business, right? When everybody's getting fired, and then they were like, oh shit, what's the music industry now? Because everybody's file. sharing you know well now it's like the wild west all right we're going to start our own label so we got

an imprint on uh w on wea and uh we resurrected our imprint um new noise we signed alien ant farm way back in the day i remember that to a to a deal on dreamworks and we just resurrected that name because all the filing and paperwork was all done we're like fucking less hassle dude let's just go new noise and so uh we've been running that and it's been through the pandemic like it was the beginning of phase for us and we had been with a better noise for 10 years at that point we took the temperature in the business in the music industry and we're like do we want to go sign like a normal deal nope no we know too much now yep exactly we're like you met the wizard too yeah yeah I don't wait a well I saw behind the curtain yeah I realized also oh fuck I'm a wizard there's no one there

it was me the whole time yeah you know what I'm saying you know what I mean it's wow when you meet the wizard and you realize you were the wizard yeah that's but I'm I love it. I love that you met the wizard too. But that's the thing I think you learn with age and experience is it's not that I am against the institutional side of the music business at all. Good partnerships work great. Absolutely. And good teams work great.

Yep. So I'm not anti any. I'm against the thugs. Yep. You know, and I'm against the liars. Yep. And I'm against the thieves. So I want the young people that are coming up and making art.

Yep. to understand the value of them and the power of them. And then in partnership, in concert with really great people that work hard, the experience I had was I didn't know if I had a choice. Yeah. I just wanted a success. Yep. As I got older, I realized like, oh, no, like people design houses they want to live in.

We should design lives we want to live in. Yep. We should design careers we want to live in with as much care as we design a house we want to live in. Yes. And I didn't know how to live in a nice house. It took me a long time. Yep, to learn how to live in a nice house because I didn't really have nice houses. We were always moving. And I'm grateful to my wife because she had a way of going, hey, slow down. Which one do you like? And I'm like, I don't know. I like them all. Yep. And she's like, I get it. But which one do you like better? Yes. Because better is better. Yep. And we get used to better fast. People always get

used to better and then they don't want to go back. And if we can get, if we can make our lives better, our careers better, we won't want to go back to worse. Yep. And better is better for everyone. Like if I'm thriving,

our relationship is going to be better. Yep. If you're thriving, my relationship with you and your relationship with the world is going to be better. And then you're going to have this positive effect, the gratitude list. Yep.

The music, the, the wisdom. them you share when you talk to artists in your day to day. We've had conversations. You're out there. You're meeting the bands that are opening for you guys or you're at festivals with bands that listen to you. They're coming up. Influenced by you guys. And you're sharing experience and things that like they're going to take and use and it's actually going to make their life better. We can kind of dismiss it as like, this is what we do. Yeah. But actually like it's therapy. And not

everybody can go to therapy. Not everybody has the resources or the or the know-how or the ability to find someone that they click with. Because that's also a personal relationship. But like, we can actually give people versus take from people when we talk to them. And why waste any conversation? That's what I always say, like, how this whole show started was like I was having these conversations all the time in the studio or at shows or on the street. I wanted people to be able to listen to them because out there right now there's someone that's feeling a certain way. Yep. They're trying to make it in life in any which way.

And they need to hear that people like them. Yep. Made it out of whatever situation. And so, you know, drugs and alcohol are something I grew up around my whole life. So I have a very in-tune understanding, in-depth understanding of the, of the, um, of the experience and I know it all too well. So the struggle of someone to choose sobriety over addiction and the disease and the affliction is a really long road sometimes.

We both know people that did not win that fight. Yeah. And we've known too many. And whether it was death or jail or just insanity. And when you watch that happen, you can become desensitized to it sometimes. But if we can help someone on their path towards a sober life, and that could be sobriety and lots of forms. Yep.

It's not just alcohol or drugs. It's like a life of sanity and not insanity. And I have to remind myself that sometimes because every now and then I'll meet a kid who I know hasn't arrived there yet. Right. And I'm like, man, I want to run away because I don't want to live through this again. Yeah. But then you kind of like, oh, no, this is, this is, you know, I'm going to be a positive

influence in this person's life. And as long as they want to get that, I'll always be there like in that way. I'm not going to participate in their sickness, but, you know. I love that about you, man. I think that's dope, dude. I think that that carrying that spirit. out there in this world of going, hey, young grasshopper, let me show you the way. Like, that's what's up, man.

Like, that is a, it's important to, to be there for each other. I think that message is, it survives the ages. You know what I mean? It's like looking out for your people, it's important. Looking out for our neighbor, it's important. You know, and I've experienced that in my life, right? Where somebody else has been like, hey, man, let me show you the way. This ain't it.

Yep. You know, and that's been, that's been an interesting experience for me because part of me inside is like fighting it, right? I don't, I don't like, I don't want to change. I don't want to grow comfortable in this like insanity in this crazy place, right? Yeah. But it's like you suffer long enough. You realize like, all right, cool, I got to let go. And when I did the work and let go with some of that stuff and allowed my higher power to work in my life and

flow through me there was magic there, right? When this fellow was walking through this madness with me going, yo, Kobe, this is, we're going to get you out of this. We're going to walk, you're going to become a better man, a better human, a better friend,

a better husband, a better musician. You know, and that's like, I've had a few men in my life assume that role. And I am just forever grateful to those people, you know. And I have a tendency to sometimes shut down and isolate after tours. Yeah. You know, I just got done with a long tour, came home.

And I'm just like, man, I just don't know if I have it. I'm just kind of, I'm done, you know. And sometimes just knowing that when to go, all right, I just kind of got to go dark for a little while. And just reboot. You know what I mean? And so I think that that wisdom, as you're speaking of, it's like slowly I'm starting to grasp pieces of those

over the last like 10 years. And it's put me in a place where I'm like, okay, cool. I feel all right. So I'm gonna'amena. And like my music, my hair changed with me. And has to be able to be able to continue my rhythm. For so, Potion Nine of Sebastian Professional

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that teaches you, like, this moment doesn't define the whole. Once I learned myself and I,

and I actually allowed myself to be like the idiosyncratic person that I am and I didn't fight it and I didn't go oh you're just a piece of shit because you feel that way or I was going no this is just a moment I got to just be in this moment and like and see what's up yeah and and then also that this moment doesn't define the whole of the time thank god right yeah and and my and this mistake doesn't define me as a whole or or this win right so on both sides of the picture yeah right right because if if the wind

reminds me unsustainable to think that I'm going to replicate whichever when it is at that moment again and again and again. So that's an unsustainable version of me. Dude, I've seen people do that, man. And it's like how, you know, guys like Floyd Mayweather, right, where they're just on this run and they're on this run. And it's like eventually you're going to see them fall. I want to know. That's why I like talking to people. Yeah. Because there's guys who can just hit the baseball. Yep. And they just hit it really well. Yeah, right. And then I wonder like, do you do every? everything in your life that well? Because if they do, that's great. But I always wonder, like,

and then I also have to go back to me and go like, well, that's just, I am just what I am. Yep. And like, what if I'm, what if I learn to just kind of feel that I'm good enough right here as I sit? And then I'll have my wins and we can celebrate them. Yeah. But then I also have to like go home and wash the dishes and participate in. You wash dishes? Yeah. Yeah. Take the trash out. That's right. drive the kids to the thing and like participate on both sides of that and like find the balance of like I want to win just like everyone else I want to win as much as possible yes I want to win like natural librae wants to I want to win yes I want to win all the time yeah I wake up every day excited

to work on the things I'm working on and then I got to find that balance of like but I also have to do real life as well and then I don't and if I come to terms with actually what makes me valuable and special is who I am really in the world, not who I am over here when I win in the world perceives me to be something. Yeah. Right. And it's great to stand on a, you know, hold a trophy up, right? That's a great feeling.

No doubt we should celebrate that. But then we should also, I think the gratitude list, find the gratitude that we get to like participate in real life as well. Yep. And I think that was the journey for me, was figuring out how to like be at peace with the wins and the losses and as I perceive them. Oh, yeah. In the music because it, I think we're competitive guys. Oh, fuck.

Yeah, I'm going to play football. Yeah. Yeah. And, ended up in music and treated it sometimes like it's a sport. Like I just go for it. Got an idea. I'm going to go for it. Yep.

Learning how to embrace the competitiveness and enjoy it versus feel torture. that like yeah um and then also like be in my real life every day and and and actually be able to feel it and live it and learn how to live a real life because also when you tour yeah you get into this like bubble of like it's like peter pan mm-hmm there's no real life you're not really accountable or anything yeah um there's people that do stuff because you have like tour managers and yep you're back here's your laundry uh what you want to have for dinner tonight all right we'll get that okay yeah yeah you're out there and you're working a schedule and so everything is laid out in a timeline and you you don't have to think about where you're going or how you're getting

there because you're on this groundhogs day every day and then you come into real life and sometimes you just feel like what do I do yeah I'm in that transition right now again I was you know coming up yeah it does man it's coming off the road it's been like a two year run for us and I was trying to mentally prepare before I came off the road. Yeah, smart. My friend, Chad Gray, singer from Mudvane, he came out to our show in Vegas and I saw him after the show and he just kind of was a little choked up, man. I was like, what's up, dude, you, you good, man? And he's like, yeah, dude, I'm just like, I miss it.

And I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, I just, I miss the stage, dude. It's like, I just, I'd see, because he had been out there touring and he had come home for a while. while and he had been and I was like yeah man maybe there's like a hobby or something you can and as I'm having this conversation all that's happening as I'm going oh fuck I'm about to be off tour what the hell's my hobby I'm giving this dude advice what the fuck are you going to do you know what I mean do you have a hobby no I'm trying to figure it out my my kids uh being dad you know hobby it's just my lifestyle as far as hobbies go i mean i don't i don't have one i mean skiing i like to go ski that's cool

um maybe maybe some art yeah i can't ski all the time and plus it's like dangerous i got to like my body is my instrument you know and i don't want to break myself but i got to be able to enjoy myself too you know but i'm just in that like transitional i'm about to be off the road for some months maybe a year and I've been touring for ever as long as I can remember, right? It's how do I maintain this life without driving the people around me fucking mad when I'm off the road.

Yeah. Right? And so, I don't know, we're going to do some writing. You know, we're going to get creative, you know, over this year. And I'll find ways to occupy my time. Maybe I'll become a barista or some shit.

I don't know. Yeah. I started, I'll be out there. Roasting them beans. It's not a bad hobby. You know. Again,

One that you can only really do a couple times a day, though. And it's short-lived. It's about five to ten minutes. True, true, true, true. I started playing Fortnite with my kid. You want that, you want that Fortnite grind? Yeah. Oh, shit.

I got to say, it's a good hobby. Are you in? You're like committed? I'm not a gamer. Neither am I. But I really enjoy, like, I like playing when he'll play with me sometimes. He's really good. How old is your little guy? He's 14.

Oh, dude, you teenager? Yeah, he's not a little. there we go he's not a little yeah i made it too man he plays baseball and that's cool i get to go watch him you know play baseball and all right that's what's up and you travel ball doing travel ball and stuff like that i did all that with my boys not baseball though that's a good and my daughter dances which is a good way to spend the spend time yes go driver to dance or watch her you know her competitions hobbies are definitely important but like i do find it's very hard for me to find something that captures my attention yes long enough yes yes

where I don't turn it into like some kind of game that I'm playing and then it becomes like an competitive competitive yeah and then it's like yeah all of a sudden it's the same thing as what you're doing in your career yeah yeah i know dude it's that competitive nature in us man that just drives us i want to compete at the highest level yep that's fucking right dude that's fucking right you know what i mean yes sir i don't want to just that's like think about this right we started this thing in 93 i started we started pop roach in 93 i've been doing it since i was a little kid wow I had to have some fucking insane drive, man, to still be passionate about it, right? This over 30 years.

Yes. By the way, you look like you're 25. Thank you. I'll go with that. I'm not 25. My back does not feel 25. Feels like 25, 25 year olds are standing on it. I get it.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's all good, though. Appreciate it. To survive 30 years of this insanity that it is sometimes. and to be able to go out there and, you know, of course, we all had the experience when we first got into the theme park. Oh, yeah.

We just ran around and ate everything and rode every ride. But then you kind of start to go like, oh, no, I'm, this is actually where I live. It's not a theme park. Yep. It's where I live. Yes. And I'm a part of the theme park. I'm a part of it.

So everywhere you are, any night of tour is someone's big Friday night. Whether it's Tuesday night in Oklahoma. or a Thursday night in Jacksonville. That's their Friday night. That's their Friday night. We're going to see Papa Roach and we're going to. So there's an element of atmosphere you have to create for everyone there that's they're there to forget about things.

Oh, yeah. It's a moment where life is better. Fuck yeah. Right? That's music. Absolutely. We're healing. We're getting relief.

Yep. We're getting all these things we need. That's what music provides. And you're the provider. And so. I'm really provide, my brother. Yeah. So you can't actually be in the theme park riding the ride too.

You have to like provide the healing and the joy and all the good things. To sustain that over a long period of time and keep your sanity and your life is a feat. Yeah. I've done lost my mind about 15 times over. You know what I'm saying? Through this journey, it's like, where was it? Where was I? I'm like, okay, reboot.

Let's fucking start again, start fresh, you know? And I think that allowing myself. to fail. Yeah. Right. And like being bold enough to get out there in this business and put out another record and go, all right, we're going to throw it out the wall. Let's see if it sticks.

Is this thing over? Oh, no. It's stuck. Oh, snap. You know, it's like tomorrow night. I'm like, got invited to a billboard's number one party. Why? Because I had like two number ones last year.

Right. Or this year. And I'm like, what? Like. But that to me, so my theory. Huh? Yeah. I'm doing this?

Yeah. So my theory, though, it's not throwing it against the wall and seeing if it sticks, it's this thing you've built. Yeah. On top, on top. You've built layers. You have so many layers. Think about this.

To destroy what you've built. Yeah. Would take as much effort at least. Oh, I see motherfuckers destroying their career in a heartbeat. Yeah. But what's behind that heartbeat is a few years of really, really like of time and energy and effort put into that lifestyle. And so from the outside, I watch you as someone who's known you over the years. And I feel happy because we also know the stories of people who didn't figure it out.

And none of us are happy about that because we all were there. So when you see another guy make it, you know what he was up against. Yep. Inside, outside, you know what he was up against. Swimming against a tidal wave. Yeah. And no one understands that except for the guys that were there. So on the outside, it looks like, oh, that must be the coolest job in the world.

It is. Oh, yeah. There's this one hour a night where it's the coolest job in the world. And then you're alone with your thoughts the rest of the day. And then you're also like up against the world that's ever changing, that's cruel, that can be cynical. And on the other side of that, it's a world full of people who support you, love you. That's why we all care about the fans because we know they gave us our livelihood. We know they give us our opportunity to go out and do that.

And we respect that. That's like sacred ground. Yep. But then there's the rest of the world. Yep. Right? The looky-lose. They want to stop by and just take a look.

Oh, look, he's failing. I got to tell you something real quick. Yeah. It just brought it to mine. My friend Brent from Shinedown. He's a great frontman, great vocalists. I remember we just did this room with them. And he said something to the crowd.

he's like something to the effect of like you know we're in this band and the only boss of us is you yep you the fan you are our boss it's a and i was like damn dude you kind of like nailed it break it down fool like right there i like that i feel that you know it's like serve the people man give the people what they want you know you see why shine down has the career they have yeah they're those dudes are crushing it man we just did shoot like seven weeks with them such an amazing tour packing out arenas selling out arenas, last show, Denver. We played a, what was it,

ball arena where I think the hockey team there plays, the avalanche. And I just had such a great tour, great time on that tour. And I remember this was the last show. And I played and got off stage and I just ugly cry.

I'm like, I can't hold it in. My wife's like, are you okay? I'm like, oh man, I'm just, I'm going to miss this. Like, it just, all kind of set in, you know, in that moment out there on the road. And, you know, to circle back to that statement I was saying about Chad, you know, it's like, I just kind of was like, oh, shit, here comes life. Like it's the, all of a sudden, it's more, I'm waking up again. It's morning.

Fear of impending doom. How am I going to do this? The dream is over now. Yeah, got to figure it out, dude. Pull up your big boy pants. Dude, the honeydew list is long. Get to work. You're doing it. Oh, man, I'm telling you. I got, yeah, I have blisters. They have finally healed. You know what I'm saying? because you know i like to work with a shovel out in the yard you know yeah i feel that about you yeah like he probably does yard work i do dude i got the i got the special overalls for it i got my yard work outfit i got my thorough goods dude i got my shovel i got some new gloves yeah so i don't get the blister anymore yeah man i like to do some yard work do you live in sacramento still cool yep stayed norcal man just it's it's home i've considered moving a million times over

and our village is tight man my folks are dope my brother he's got three kids my wife her family lives there it's like everybody's there so like when we roll out to like one of the kids games right like my older son jagger when he was playing varsity football there'd be 30 of us just rolling deep we're bringing the cowbells screaming hooting and hollering for our boy on the football field like so it's tough to trade that in yeah you know that's that's the stuff that i'm just like that's the real shit yep so stayed and nor cow man that's your neighbor up there deal was six hours up there yeah a little quick flight dude yeah hour banger I'm good puddle jump that's great yeah is uh jagger still playing so uh I actually uh just visited him jagger he's on his freshman year at a college in Nebraska

called Hastings college you got accruited he's playing running back amazing uh yeah dude it's awesome man and uh he had he had some playing time this year which was great you know for a freshman you know usually their red shirt so he got on the field and got some touch and uh this last game dude it was like the last game of the season got in he had this run it was a 60 yard run and he's he's running and he's he checks his rear views he's called check my reviews so he looks to the left and right when he looks to the left and he keeps running and right when he's going to look to check his right rearview mirror this dude just hawked him dude punch the ball out dude fumble he comes off the field he's like fuck and I'm like

it was so sick but you know sometimes like I say you got to take them lumps right like that was one of those lumps that he had to take where he's like all right cool check both reviews make sure you're on it you know and that kid's thriving though I'm really proud of him man because he was uh during COVID wasn't doing well

it was tough during COVID yeah it was it was a real hard time on on him in particular just because he just is such a he's so outgoing and social. He has a lot of, we have very similar personalities. And I think just isolating him was rough. So to see him play sport and get back to who he is. Yeah. I mean, I will say this one thing, though, as the pandemic had us locked up, that kid wrote so much music. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, he's, he's found music, man. That's been something for him that's been really therapeutic. He's a,

he's a lyricist. He's a MC. He writes raps. And he's fucking good. like the kid's dope he's like what am i gonna like have my shot i'm like just keep being keep living your dream yeah and keep sharpening your craft dude like he's in the right find it yeah he's in the right family yeah he is he is he's got the opportunity when it's time yeah but you know that like what you probably learned and the wisdom that you have from your career is you know when it's time yep because when you're once you step out into this you can't go back exactly you can't turn it off Yep. And who are you when you first come into the business, right? That's what people grab they grab onto that and it's like what's the first version of I thought I was ready for a record deal way before I had a record deal. You know what I mean? I was like, what do you mean? I'm at the school talent show, dude. Like I don't have the record deal yet. Yeah. Unrealistic. That's fine. But it's, it's interesting to be a father of a son that wants to be a musician because part of me just wants to fuck. It just be like, no. Yeah. Fuck this. There's more landlines than there are pots of gold. It is. It's a rugged one. And we'll see

how that plays out in his life. You know what I mean? Whether it is his path or whether it isn't, I don't know. But I do know that the kids talented and is passionate about it. Do your kids have any interest towards music at all? Yeah. My son, also, it's funny, COVID, I think, was a part of this. Right. But so he's like your son, he likes to get physical, play sports. He plays baseball. He boxes. He does things that are that are, it's cool. And if he's, if he doesn't get to do that for a long enough period, he'll get, he'll get, he'll get depressed. Yep. And, um, and then, but he got into making music and producing, uh, making beats and stuff. It's very good. Um, same mentality, though. I tell, and my daughter is a dancer and she performs and, and both of them are, whenever I say, like,

when you know when it's time to go pro we'll know yep and right now just have fun yeah hone your craft keep doing shit you like yep and keep getting good get good at it in ways that make you feel good about yourself and keep trying to be better beat your own score right because i've said to both of them once you step out there and you go public yep you can't go back and when you're When a company goes public, they're owned by a bunch of shareholders. Yep. And once that happens, you're beholding to those shareholders. Yep.

And so you have to be, you have to acknowledge that. And so it's better to stay private until you're really ready. And so they hear me. And they also go like, you know, they also like don't necessarily want to hear that. They're like, it's, it. No, you're the man. Yeah. Why are you getting all serious?

Yeah. Don't we be serious about this. Yeah. Like, why are you being? So like, you always turn everything into a job. And I'm like, well, I'm super analytical about things. And Sunday, you're going to have a job. Yeah.

And when I was your age, I had two jobs. So I always say that. That's right. But I think they both have talent. And if they wanted to, they could. That's cool. So it's going to be a matter of like, is that the life you want to live? Yeah.

And there's some really great parts of that life. Because when you make stuff and people acknowledge it, it feels great. Oh, yeah, dude. You know? I'm telling you, man, that feeling right. Like when you're playing a homie, like one of the new tracks. Yeah. And it's like you're just trembling, you know, and excited and nervous and anxious and like,

what do you think? Yeah, it's like. And like when you play a show and people are singing your song, there's no feeling like it in the world, you know, on the flip of that is when you put something out you care about and people dismiss it or they don't care about it or they don't care about it or worse, they talk shit about it. Yeah. It can be heartbreaking.

So the rejection you feel is oftentimes more rejection than acceptance as an artist. Absolutely. And I would say that's the life of an artist. And I would say that's the life of anyone that is blazing their own path, like an entrepreneur or a painter, like rejection is just part of the experience. We got to be good at failing. You know what I'm saying? Like I have just, I am Sarah failing, bro, all day, dude.

Wham, well bam, well bam. I'm like, I got that really good get back up her. That's it. And I think that's the math is the guys who can get up again and again and again and again are the guys that stick around. And you're a good testament to that. You could go back. And if you did the math and you were like, how many bands and how many people didn't get back up?

I know. And so at some point, like that's why I think it's interesting because as old as you guys may feel an experience, you're still a young band oh dude i'm telling you this like when we see the young cats coming on to the scene and taking the stage and releasing videos releasing music i'm like that's i like that it gets me inspired i see the dudes and you know caleb from bear too that the dudes and bring me bringing it and it's like all right what you got kid like are you the real deal you know falling in reverse ronnie rack you took them on tour it's like all right is motherfucker the real deal and then they back it up and then they do all right well let let papa show you how it's done

now son let's go like it feels good i got that it feels good to be around that energy and oh yeah and then before you know it you know fall in reverse playing arenas bring me's playing arenas bear tooth it's dope man and you see the the growth and i feel happy because when i see another success story and you know what those guys are up against you know the the personal demons we all have to fight against because most of us come up with a big bag of issues yeah that we're we have to work through. Oh, yeah. And that's also why I like having these conversations because we don't, back in the day,

it wasn't really like you could talk about how you feel. Yeah, it wasn't this. She was a normal one. I was even like, fuck that. Stop complaining. Yeah, totally. And then I started to realize it's not actually complaining. You're actually just making sense of it.

Yeah. So that you can be a healthier person. Yeah. And isn't it a good thing to put good things into the world? Oh, yeah. And especially, I think we live in a world where we think there's more bad than good because of what we see on social media and the news. But that's just programming. Yes.

We're programming things that get people to click and watch. I think there's more good. Absolutely. There's so much great in this world, man. It's like you just got to get out there and go see it. Go get it. Get outside your door. Walk outside your front door and go see it.

Insert yourself into environments that you're not necessarily comfortable with all the time. it's like, all right, let me go see what the world is outside of my thought bubble. Or not even your thought bubble, like the program, right? Oh, wow, you just nailed it with that. I mean, that's some real shit. It's just programming. I've spent a lot of my time over the last few years deprogramming, honestly. Yeah.

Like it feels like I'm, that's my process essentially is, there's a snapcase record called Progressions Through Unlearning. Yeah. And that title in itself is so true in my life. It's like these things, these habits that I gained. and some of them good, a lot of them bad. It's like, how do I progress? Well, I got to carve that out.

I got to etch that out. I got to ditch that. I got to dice that up. I got to keep this part. Cool. You know what I mean? And I think that that process is, it's something that that's, that's the reason why I'm still here doing this is because I got, I have the desire to do, to evolve, to change, to thrive,

to inspire, to be inspired. All those things, you know, and I'm not done living, you know. I think for a while I kind of got a little complacent for a minute, I felt creatively. And I had to shake things up with the band and I'm grateful we did. Burnout is a real thing too. Oh, absolutely. You know what's trippy though, man? It's because it's like I physically have been burnout from tour.

But creatively, it's like there's this thing in me that I know when I get into the studio with my boys it's about to fucking go off yeah i'm excited about that experience um where i stand right now yeah because i know creative burnout i know physical burnout i know emotional burnout i know emotional burnout i know spiritual bottom dude i know all that right and it's like to be in a space where it's like all right i'm shutting the door on that but i'm inspired to move on that's that's a that's a cool place to be you know we're about to uh beginning of next month we're going to come down we're going to do like a week's worth of writing with the band. And so we're going to start doing like little time capsules.

All right, we should get together for a week, right, see what happens. Get together for a week, right, see what happens. And I don't know, man, I just got, I got a lot of things still to say, I think, as an artist. And especially right now, we have a current single that we're working right now. We just drop this track, leave a light on. Yep. And I was so passionate about this track. It almost got overlooked on the record as far as being released as a single.

And we went on the Shindown tour and we started playing it and people were just feeling it. And I'm like, all right. Is that connected to suicide prevention? Yes. Yeah. I was going to ask you about that. Yeah, man. So we started working with the AFSP.

Yep. And right now, suicide attempts are at an all time high. Crazy. It's horrific. As we speak about all these great things happening and there are so many great things, right, but there's so many people struggling. too. And it feels like a dark time. And so when I say the, even the programming of it all is it can it can get us all down. So it when you say that to me, as sad as it is, I'm not surprised.

Yeah. Because there's so much darkness being shown across all mediums. Just like how bad the world is. Yep. It's crazy to hear that. But then when I think about it, I'm like it actually it makes sense. I mean, really what it is, though, man, is it's like, it's, it's a hand reaching into the dark and grabbing onto somebody that's willing to fight for themselves, you know? And that's, I was just telling the crowds every night, I said, hey, we all stand here as a testament of people willing to get up and fight the good fight. Fight for ourselves.

Fight for the people around us that we love. You know, and that's what this is about. And that's what the AFSP does. Yep. They're just like picking up that phone going, hey, let's, let's talk through this. let's let's work this out and a lot of people don't necessarily know that there's help out there you know and it's like sometimes we just got to get our bell rung and go hey yo there's some help we've gotten some some dms from people where it's like i mean there was one dm where this dude was

like i was going to take my life tonight like i was coming to the see this show this was my last concert and i was going to go home and take my life and i did i i did not and i will not and i'm going to get help. Thank you. And it's like just that one DM, right? It's the whole thing. I look at that and go, I never really realized that I guess the real true power of music until you hear stories like that where people are like, yo, this is, this music saved me. And I don't know if you had this experience. Not that I would sluff it off as passe like, oh, thanks. Not, oh, thanks. Not oh, but like right on man that's cool but then when i really get down to it and think about it i'm like holy fuck like are they really meant they really meant save my life yeah what don't take that lightly

cobe you know what i mean and like well i don't think it's taking i don't think you were taking it lightly i think that there's a humility you have right that you take a compliment in stride yeah i do that where you where you go oh thanks you know but you're not actually feeling or only like the depth of or the gravity of what your song meant to someone because you guys have a bunch of songs yeah that um i need help yeah yeah help me yeah and you're just sharing your own experience but this is the power of it right yeah is you're a success story so if i'm if i'm a if i'm someone in some place this moment in my life if i'm someone in a place where i have no one No one in the world is making me feel valuable.

I don't have any companionship. And I haven't discovered my talent yet. And I don't know and I don't feel like I have any potential. Right. And maybe I've even started to make choices in line with that. So I've made the whole bigger for myself. And there's no grace around me, right? And then I see someone that said, man, I wrote the song because I felt like a worthless

piece of shit and I felt like I didn't know what to do and I I wanted life to be over. And this was, I kind of just fought for it in this song. I wrote these lyrics or I felt this way. And, and you share like an honesty about, because it's also hard when we get into interviews and it feels like the person interviewing us has a knife behind their back. They're holding a knife. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. Just waiting for us to say something embarrassing. Yeah. So then that will be the headline. And then it'll follow us around for the rest of our career. So it can be hard to share and be vulnerable. But when we buck against that and we do get to share, and then there's someone out there that we don't even know, we've never met them, we don't even know they're listening,

and they hold on to that and they listen to the song. And then they come to the show. And then they leave the show feeling better. And the next day they get up and for that one day, they're looking for the positive in life. We do get what we look for in life. Yes, absolutely. Right? We get, if we go through the forest looking for bears, we'll find them. Yep.

We go looking for berries, we'll find them. Isn't that trippy? Yeah. Like, it's like, look for red cars, we'll see red cars. Yep. Right? So the symbol of your band becomes a positive thing. And then every time they put that record on, it's a vibration they get on.

Yeah, they're strengthening. And they start to head in a positive direction. and you don't think about that when they say, hey, your band saved me. You're just like, oh, thanks. I appreciate that. Because I'm still working on my own self-esteem. So I can't even take that in.

I can't even take it in when someone says like, oh, that, you know, good Charlotte, it saved my life. And I'm like, oh, thanks. And I go, we didn't save their life. They saved their own life. Now, that's true. They did have to make the decision to get up. But the music was the symbol to them.

It's the bat symbol. Right. It stands for something. it stands for something bigger and aspirational like you like i was just like you and i and i thought and i worked and i kept showing up and i kept getting back up and i figured it out enough and then now at this age i can kind of articulate it a little better and i can say like oh no i was someone you would have bet against when i was 16 and i started a good charlotte you would have said no chance in hell. Look at where they're from. Look at, look at, those poor kids. They have no shot in this world.

And then when we made it, you would have still bet against us. You said, this industry is going to eat them alive. Yeah, right. Or they don't have the talent. And it might have all been true. But we kept fighting, fighting. And now here we are as, you know, fathers. And we don't have it all figured out. But like, we can get up every day and at least show up. And keep trying. That's where I said. then you have these people that love you back and they get older and they get older like the kids is so funny because they're little and they just love you they don't ask you to change no they don't ask you to be so indifferent they literally just love you yep and then pretty awesome it's pretty sick that's the

best shit ever i always say that like like the biggest lesson one of the biggest lessons my kids taught me was they are the only people that never asked me to change or be someone different and we walk around and we want everyone to be different you don't believe the same thing as me or you don't or you yep and like think about the kids they never ask us to be different yep they just show up and they're like i love you dad love you you're awesome dad and then they get older and they and they and they still do that yep but we've made it far enough to go to these these these kids out here or it's usually young people um that are struggling with like making sense of life uh to go no dude i know right now feels like the darkest moment and no one cares but someone does

care and we do that's why we make music um it's not the money i mean it's fun to be on stage but even if you didn't have that you'd still write these songs because you're you're bleeding it out absolutely man it's it's just for me it's a way to just make sense of the of the madness yeah you know and i think all of us everybody out there's trying to find a way to like untangle the fucking ball of yarn that they got yeah and i'm just yeah i'm just great stoked i got music to be able to do that with because I think about my life like if I didn't have this yeah how would I how would I be doing that would be tough maybe sport of some way or I don't know slam poetry fuck I don't know that's still kind of music uh I don't know I got I got a band dude we're you wouldn't want to see me do slam poetry

yeah and the people we share it with that need it the most are the are what make the music matter of the most and I feel like I've I kind of I started saying this a while ago because it like really like clicked in my brain like 10 or 11 years ago when someone said that to me oh man your music changed my life right something like that one of those and I and it clicked one day when I was like oh man thank you for making the music matter yeah didn't matter before you showed up you know right and because of that you you made me matter because I didn't feel like that you made me matter because I didn't feel like I mattered. Now I realize I feel like I matter for a different reason now to my family and to my community and people I love. But it was the music that got me here. Okay, here's a question.

Yeah. What was that music when you were younger? What was that band to you? Rancid. All right. There we go. They made me feel like they were badass. They're still badass. And they made me feel like I could do anything the way they dressed, the way they carried themselves. I just felt like powerful. You know, when you're a kid and you're, you know, me and Benj, I remember feeling like, always, I just felt like in danger. I always felt like I couldn't protect myself. Right.

It was little and I, right. I didn't have a lot of strength. I wasn't like a big guy. And, um, and our dad was gone and it was, it was a rough time. And I remember listening to Rancid just feeling like, like, no one can fuck with me. And I remember that was one of the biggest fears I had was I went out into the, world and in any different scenario and I always felt like anyone could fuck with me right and it was a tough place and it was kind of like people so rancid was one a lot of rap I listen to do a lot of

rap okay all right loved um cash money and no limit okay and um I liked bone thugs in harmony oh I fuck with bone thugs you are back in the day yeah I liked easy E oh yeah uh I loved Tupac yeah lots of rap um and lots of of punk and then a lot of radio like we we started on the radio so like a lot of rock yep so like loved alison chains loved you guys thank you man when when your first single came out and it was everywhere on rock radio yeah like on alternative radio and it and it went to the moon but yeah but for the kids that were listening to the alt rock stations you know it was like green day and all this alternative um and and uh that 90s

Think about this. There'll never be another time like the 90s when that rock there was, it was such good rock and roll or rock music. Yes. And you guys were there for it. It was a good time, man. It was a good time. There was a lot of doors you guys opened bringing that heavier, angrier.

Oh, yeah. Rock to the masses. We're on TRL. You're on TRL. You're on TRL. mean it was like what and a lot of bands get to exist in spaces because of all the bands from the 90s yeah man 90s was a that was a great time i remember to go and seeing like rage against a machine it was dude i saw a rage against the machine at the 930 club what yeah oh that would have blew my mind

that was sick 930 club is just that's an iconic spot do you remember the h a festival yes yes that was our hometown yep so they always had all the bands play the hf festival was like like the biggest festival of the year for rock. Allison Chains. Did they do it at RFK Stadium? Yeah, RFK Stadium. It was always like 70,000 plus people.

Yeah, dude, we played that one. We played one of those. Yeah. I saw you guys. Okay, cool. Yeah. I'll tell you a story about that show. So it was at the time,

it was on our album, getting away with murder, and it was, we were trying to figure out whether we were going to release scars or getting away with murder as the first single. Right.

And I just was apprehensive about scar. I'm like, man, I don't know. It's like, I just feel like it's not the first single. I want to come out with something a little more bombastic. Yeah. So I was like talking to Brenda Romano and Gary Spiebac, those were our two record label reps there.

They work for the radio department at the label. And I was like, hey, I'm all, I guarantee you. I'm going to get this crowd to sing along with getting away of murder. Dude, just watch a shit out. That's, if I get these motherfuckers singing to getting away with murder, sing along by the song, do it's got to be the single. Come on. You know, I'm like, just my pleas right to the, to the label.

and we get up there and RFK, right? Never played the song live before. It's never been heard before on the radio. Sing that song. At last audience, I'll give it to the crowd and they're like, getting away with murder. And I'm just like, I look back, I'm like, it could be the single, right?

It was the single. That's dope. Yeah, I was at RFK. I was there. That's cool. Probably singing along. Let's go, dude. Yeah.

Because those shows were wild. Oh, dude. Insane. They were, it wasn't like. Like, not to say the festivals now don't have moschens because the heavy rock festivals do. But like now it's like a festival culture where it's more like a Coachella or a La La Paloosa where like it's a broader audience that's coming. And they kind of listen to everything. Yeah.

But that festival was like, less fucking rock. We love punk. We love rock. We love metal. And at that time in the 90s, music was a lot more classified. So you listen to this kind and you go to these shows. and it was quite a time and that those shows were wild and i and and those were some of the shows that made us want to be in the band and that was it that was the time deaf tones for me man i was

going to see deaf tones at cattle club amazing you know small small club here in sacramento or not here in sacramento but back home in sacramento and i just remember seeing those dudes on stage chino and the boys oh my god for it and i'm just like this is what i want i want to do this is this is it I see it. Goats. Yeah, totally. I think Chino might come on the show, yeah. Dope.

He's cool. He's a good dude. I've never really gotten to hang out with him. I haven't gotten to, he's a real one. I met him once or twice, but I never, never gotten to hang out with them.

And I'm a huge Deftones fan, obviously, like. That new one he dropped with for crosses. Sick. Invisible hand, I think invisible hands or something. It's dope. Dude, I heard that. I was like, all right, I texted him instantly. I'm all.

Nailed it. this one bro like score he's one of the goats yeah he's an o g i'd make an argument uh that you guys deaf tones when i think about bands that i would go to today and see right in the 90s it was just wild and fun yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah oh shit i've never seen this before yep and then you go through this time in the you know the mid two thousands where like EDM really popped off and streaming started. And it was almost like everyone was like, rock is dead.

Yeah. People were spouting that off. Yeah. And I never thought it was, but I didn't know what would become of it. And then it's, it's not that it's come back around because the bands were still touring and the shows were still good.

Yeah. It was just the mainstream consciousness of like what we're consuming as a mass group of people. It was like they'd forgotten that the best, you know, the best live shows. Our great rock show, there's really hard to replicate that. It's a wild thing.

There's energy to it. It's a feel, man. And Papa Roach, deaf tones, incubus. I saw Limp Biscuit, I want to say like two years ago. And it was, I've seen Limp Biscuit before. It was the best Limp Biscuit show I've ever seen. And I was like, how are you doing this? They're ripping it right now.

Yeah, they're really ripping it. dope. It's like, oh, these bands get better over time and you're all still young. Yeah. So it's not like the, I love the Rolling Stones, but everyone's like, I'm more amazed that the Rolling Stones are still doing it. Yeah. And the show is great. I mean, it's fantastic. But that energy is like, it's, it's prime time right now. Oh, yeah. For people to go and experience like a Papa Road Show. I'll tell you this. We've experienced our biggest, most successful tour. over the last two years. I know that.

And, you know, it's like I'm blown away this last European tour. We played this festival called Hellfest. Yep. And it was, I got to tell you, man, one of my favorite live experience, live performances I've ever had in my life. Like, I walked off that stage and I was like, whatever that was, holy fuck, I want more of that. You know, and like, it's trippy because the live performance,

It just went, it was like, went viral. It started people were sharing it. It was like, in a week, it got almost a million views. I have a live show. And we're like, all right, that's dope. So, yo, go check that shit out. Pop Roach, Hellfest is dope. I have a theory.

It's a good one. I have a theory. Tell me. So if I put two cars in front of you, a brand new Mercedes S550. Cut. Right? Bass car, beautiful car, really nice, expensive.

or a 66 Chevelle in perfect condition. Fuck a Cheval, bro. Right? Modified in some ways, but kept in perfect condition. So I have this theory, because I say it about Good Charlotte all the time. It's this, we've kept the car in mint condition. Yeah. And we've modified it a little bit, but it's still the same car.

And I think that's where we're at. I think people see the Chevelle. Yep. And they go, God damn, that's a pretty car. Yeah, I got to go get on it. It sounds loud. It sounds mean. Yep. And so even people that may not like be lifelong Good Charlotte fans.

Yep. When they're at the Good Charlotte show, they are enjoying the ride. They're going to turn up. Yeah. They're going to turn up because they know it's good. And I think that's the that's the popper roach. That's limp biscuit. That's the deaf tones.

That they're the cars that are coming out of the garage every now and then. So so when you when you go on the drive, however long the drive is, everybody stops and looks and asks you a question about it. Oh, that's a cool car. Where'd you get it? How long have you had it? Like, that's the cool. That to me is like rock bands that have legacy.

Yeah. I like that analogy a lot. You know what I mean? I think you nailed it with that one, dude. For real. I'm like, I'm a run with that one. Yeah, you keep that one. That's a good one, dude.

It's a good one. My man. Because you guys have kept the car intact. When you take the car out, it sounds mean. Yep. It drives better than it ever has. And the shows are bigger than they've ever been. Yeah, we might have done shitty restoration on it a few years ago, but we fixed that.

We got that Bondo, we got it out of there. I'm saying, we good. Exactly. So I really feel that way about these bands. And then the new bands, I don't even call, I'm not saying they're Mercedes. They're like some new shit. Yeah, yeah. Like some really cool.

Yeah. Who knows? And we could argue like a bunch of them have proven themselves. I'd say like falling in reverse, bring me the horizon. Yep. Architects. They've all proven themselves. They're here.

They're building legacies of their own. Yep. What's the new new? What's the new new? What's the new new? What's the new? What's the new? What's you got?

Bad omens. Oh, I like them. I love bad omens. I mean, they're not new, new because they have a bunch of records. Yes. But to the awareness of like the mainstream of like, say, like the bigger audience, they've been building their thing for a long time. But live, they are bad ass.

I like what they've done. They got something good going. I love it. Yeah. I listened to that record so many times. I remember this. I remember we did a show in Mexico together. And I think it was like we finished up making a record.

It's called Who Do You Trust? And there was a song. And I was like, I want to play you this song. I'll do check this track out. Oh, yeah. It was called Feel Like Home. and it's like very major upbeat, major key. Feel good.

Feels good. And I played the song and I was like, you're like, it's fucking cool, man. I was like, let me hear some of your shit. And you played me a couple of years. I'm like, how did we just like trade places? Like your shit's heavier than our shit. Our last shit was kind of heavy.

Yeah. It was like you made a fucking heavy ass record. And then we went and made like a major key like pop rock fucking record. And it's, it's trippy how these journeys that we go on creatively like. Yeah. And what you find out really works for you. And then what you find out, all right, that was cool. It was a good exercise, but that wasn't the thing.

And I think that, you know, any band with a career has those moments, right? Yeah. And it's, it was just, I just trip out about that conversation. Well, do we just, I was so excited to play you the heavier stuff because we, I love heavy music. I wouldn't say that, um, I would say live we've gotten to add a lot of heaviness in spots for our live show, but our records weren't as heavy. Yeah. And I think Generation RX, which was the record I played you,

yep, was a moment for me only because, you know, one, I was in a spot where I was feeling very, I had lost a ton of friends to addiction. Yeah. Lots of people went down to pills and to opioids. And it's funny now because we watch these documentaries about the opioid crisis. It was just planned. And you don't even realize like you were living through it. Yeah.

And so you saw it happening. Yes. And you didn't know that's what it was when it was happening. And then you go tour and you just see like the residual effects on humanity. And it's like- Man. Whoa. And the lives it's ruined. And that record was all around,

um, around like coming to terms of that in my head of like what I just witnessed for 15, 16 years. And then watching this new generation of artists that, you know, we lost little peep. Yep. Uh,

you know, we lost juice world. Yep. We lost all these art. brilliant artists and it felt like it was just cycling up like it was just starting over because they're also young and I have lost like a couple really close friends and um I'm sorry man that's all right you know I mean I mean that that's life yeah and we make sense of it with music and so generation R X for me was coming to terms with the actualization of like watching like I just watched this for

18 years happened right in front of my eyes. And then I just watched that documentary and then that series of, Dope Sick. Yeah, yeah. And I watched it with my wife and we were just kind of, I was just telling her. I was like, it's crazy. Like when this was all happening. And I had family, like family members and lots of people around me that fell victim to that.

And at the time, you didn't even know. No, you just like, you didn't know you're living in a crisis. Yeah, or like you thought, oh, they should be able to stop that. And you realize like there wasn't designed for people to be able to stop. No, never. I feel like like that grace is a real thing. Grace is a real thing, brother. Yeah. For sure, man. I think over the last, I'd say five years, five to six years, I've really been able to embrace the where I am and be comfortable. with because I've always just had this like I got to keep driving keep getting it keep pushing keep pressing keep working keep getting out there and I think once I learned how to say no I'm

not going to do that tour no I'm not going to do that either that's when like I understood my true value and that's when I understood like that's when I could see the true success and the the legacy that we have built as a band and it took me a long time. to get to that place. And I'm just, I'm stoked that I can look back now and, and be appreciative and, and know that like, I've done something good. I've done something. Yeah, you guys are badass. It's appreciated, you know. It's not easy. We are. Fuck. Shit. You're badass, dude. It's not easy to be you to have that career. To keep the career. Yeah. And to keep the family. Yeah. Right. And to keep the health. Yeah, man. Right. Like to be alive.

It's balancing all those things, I think is the, I think the wisdom I've picked up through the years has been able, has been the thing that's given me the ability to suffice that. You know, because early on, I couldn't handle all these responsibilities. But now I'm good. It's nice to watch. Yeah. It was like, I'm in a kitchen with six burning pans. Yeah. And I'm like, fuck, dude, shit's on fire.

It's got the knife. Yeah. It's nice to watch because that's where, that's how it feels as a fan watching. and watching and just following the band, following you, what I get to see, the glimpses I get to see as a fan, it's nice to watch because we all need to see it. We all need to see it's possible. Absolutely.

And you wear it with a lot of honesty. Yeah, you got to stay hopeful, brothers. You know what I'm saying? You guys stay hopeful. I think that's like, don't lose hope. I think that's the message that I'm trying to get out there. If you distill it down to the simplest thing, it's like just stay hopeful. Yeah, please.

Keep getting up. Yeah. And that's what I always like feel to people listening to these conversations, they need to get a message out of it. They need to, they need to understand like we weren't the most likely, we weren't the likely bet. Life didn't hand us a bunch of stuff. And then if you were betting on horses, you'd be like, oh yeah, the one with the injured leg. Yeah, yeah, the one that's limping, we're going to take that one. Yeah, no, you'd say, no, I'm going to bet on that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that stallion over there.

That's the fastest horse. Yeah. And so when you see people that have beaten the odds, the statistics, and then they've also found a way to live a real life, right? And then actually share about it, which is like even, you know, is an art form in itself. Like there's a real comfort zone you've got to be in to share with people like what you've been through and how you dealt with it. Sometimes I have a tendency to just overshare.

And sometimes I'm like, hold on, really didn't cope. another song you know but like that actually helps people that guy that decided to stay yeah go to the show yep and live to see another day yeah who's to say that that isn't the most important thing you've ever done in your career we don't know what he's going to do with his life because the human potential is limitless yep and the person that he might help might cure cancer yes right right think about that like the possibilities of what what good can come from from the transcendent part of what we do is like wrapped up in something else.

And realize the beauty of humanity right there is that ability to like take some bad shit and make it good. Yeah. You know, it's like that's, I think that's just an important adage to adhere to. It gives me the opportunity to live a purpose driven life. You know, because it's like,

if I get out there and I'm just flounder and it's like, ain't nothing good coming from it. You know, so I'm just trying to be purpose driven. And that to me is like the most important message is the one that other people can try to replicate and follow. And because the cynics will say like, ah, whatever, it's just music or yeah, your band, whatever. And you're like, no, that's not, you're not actually the audience I'm speaking to. I'm actually looking for the person who needs the message. Yeah. And I'm hoping that they'll go after their potential. And maybe they'll end up writing a book that'll that'll continue. We have to

hand it back to the people behind us that haven't made it out of the mud yet passing the torch right like they haven't made it out of the shit yet yep they're still in the shit and so real ones know that I feel like anyone who's ever been in some shit shares yep because they're like I want you to make it out too yes I know what that feels like yep and I wouldn't wish it on anyone yeah man lately like another you know talking about coming up watching this cat a jelly roll I love jelly roll And just what he's bringing to the table and the spirit and the heart. He's badass. I love what he's doing.

And it's like he's another one of those stories of people write that like, you wouldn't have bet on. Could have caught him as a hopeless case. But no, man, there was a heart in there. There was a fire in there that just kept pressing and pushing and pushing. And that's an inspiring story. I see that unfold in front of me. And it's like, oh, that's what's up, dude.

I love it, man. But that's because I celebrate it. But that's because you're a real one. Yeah. And he's a real one. one. Yeah. And real ones, you're not wishing it on anyone to suffer. Yeah. Because you suffered enough. And so a lot of times when people get to the throne or to the podium, they start chopping heads off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Instead of sharing. Instead of turning back and going, you can do it too. Yep.

That's why we love a good winner. Yeah. We like a good winner. Absolutely. Because then he inspires us to try again. Yep. And so like we root for the good winner no matter how many times he wins. Totally. And the bad winners get up there and they and they chop heads off and they, right. Yeah. Like and I don't know what they're going through, but like a jelly roll is one of those guys is a good winner. Yep. He's not, he doesn't have his list of of grievances that when he gets on the podium, he's going to start going after everyone who ever wronged him along the way. He doesn't remember them. He remembers the guy like put his hand out and said, I'll help you through this one spot or he remembers his wife.

Yep. Helping him through a spot. You hear these stories and you're like, you relate to him and you go, oh yeah, I love my wife too. She helped me too. Yep. So he's promoting all kinds of things the United States of you know he's promoting. Yeah.

He's promoting marriage. He's a good relationships. He's promoting forgiveness. Yep. He's promoting all this good shit. Yep. And he's making the world a better place. Absolutely.

And I would bet he doesn't even know the depth. He's just doing jelly. He's just doing him. I love him. I don't even know him. Oh, dude. I'm just a big fan. He's cool as fuck.

I'm trying to get him to come here. He's cool as fuck, dude. He would be great. He'd be a great guest. I bet. Yeah, he's a fuck. He's a hoot, man. He's like, we've done some shows in our day before his success and after his success.

And he's just, his band right now he's got is just ripping too, man. I saw him live and they're all great players. I know Jack. Yep. Guitar player. Bad ass. He ripped. Dude rips.

He's great with the jelly's band. He's crushing it, man. Yeah, he rips. Nice work, dude. Does he tour with sleeping? He was in Sleeping with Sirens. Now he's full-time. So he's not with Sirens.

He's doing that full-time. Yeah, dude, sleeping with Sirens made some heavy-ass music too. Sleeping with Sirens is badass. Dude, they fuck it. I was like, no pun intended, I kind of slept on him a little bit early on. Well, that's, you know, that's what you do on new bands. Yeah. And then I was like, hold on.

What was I missing? Oh, fuck, these dudes rip. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Telling is an incredible singer. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

A very deep person has a lot to share, right? I don't know them very well. I just seen him in passing a few times, but always got good things to say. They're the real deal, dude. They're making the, they're sharing their, they're, like, they're that band. Like, they're, they're bleeding their hearts out on the records. Nick's a badass, you know, Justin, the bass players. They're a great band.

Here's another totally random question, sideways. is all time low from the same area that you guys are saying? Yeah, Maryland. Yeah, I was just out in Florida and I was in a hotel lobby and came downstairs. I saw them and were like, fuck, dude, what's up with you all? What are you doing out here? They're like, oh, we're doing shows. And they had just done a show a couple nights before in Maryland.

And it was like, I remember reading on the news. It got busted up by some kind of like lightning storm or some shit. Yeah, Maryland boys. Good dudes. Great band. Another one of those bands that like has survived that test of time and gotten better and had more success. Dude, the real deal.

They worked their asses off. Great band. Nicest guys. Good Maryland guys through and through. Got it. We've known each other a long time. Yeah, I like those guys. Yeah.

People. Bad ass. Bad ass band. They've had to work really hard to like to, that's the thing is like when you see a new band, you always kind of, when you get older, you kind of go like, all right, we'll see. Yeah, yeah. We'll see what you're made of.

Yeah. Because quitting is a thing. You see people quit or change directions or do this. And then you see the bands like all time though. They just stick with it. Keep doing their thing. Build, build, build. And now, I mean, they're a huge touring band, great songs.

And just like good Maryland guys, nice guys. Yeah, good dudes. Other guys from Maryland, you know, turnstile? Yeah. They're from Maryland. Fuck with that band. Bad ass. So I saw like, we did a, I saw him at Coachella a few years ago.

And I got up and did a son. something with Emo Knight. Yeah, ended up there. And I was like, I gotta go see this band live. So I roll up and I'm just hanging out in the crowd and I see the band is there like rolling their cabs on stage. And I'm like, this is like the old days. Yeah.

Like I'm watching this band set up their equipment before they're about to, this is dope. And they continued to just annihilate the audience. And it was, yeah, every once in a while you get one of those bands that come around and remind people that rock music is the fucking best yeah period like they did it for me again i was like oh god these guys are sick yeah you can still start a band in your garage yeah and you can still do that yep and they fucking rip lives so solid man they're fucking they're they're the real deal to kobe thanks for coming man absolutely thanks for i can't wait to see what uh popper roach does next i'm excited to hear these songs in this next oh it's it's going to be grads on on all the success dude

i mean i appreciate it bigger and better than ever shit's going to really well but I'm excited for what's next absolutely and I'm sure we'll will on the next cycle we'll will likely probably be back out there do some shows to do some shows bro come on at a festival thanks for thanks for having me appreciate it thank you for listening to artist friendly we appreciate your support if you or someone you know are struggling help is available dial 988 for the suicide and crisis lifeline or text talk to 741 741