Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Jessi Cruickshank

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Jessi Cruickshank. A self-described “comedian with too many kids,” Cruickshank has been involved in the entertainment circuit for decades. Her origins in the scene trail back to her high school improv group, where she starred alongside Seth Rogen and Nathan Fielder before landing jobs at CTV, MTV, and The CW, weaving in comedy while interviewing celebrities. In a conversation with Madden, Cruickshank dives into her love for boy bands, motherhood, her surprising answer to how she balances it all, and her first-ever comedy special “Minivan Money,” which is now streaming on Veeps. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'm talking to comedian and host, Jesse Kirshank. You can watch her special minivan money exclusively on Veebs. Let's go. Can I ask you a question? I'm a boy band aficionado. I'm not putting you in that category. God forbid. Yeah, but we're somewhere in the realm of boys and bands. We're in the realm of it somehow. Would you consider good Charlotte a bad boy band? You know what, maybe. That's actually really interesting. Because I think that you, there is a world where you feel devoid for girls where like a Nick Carter wasn't doing it for them. Like a Benji Madden with full spikes was.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I think it was like at the perfect time in pop culture for the next step out of boy band land, but not fully into like super cool indie rock. you had to take a step towards something outside of what you were being kind of fed by the pop culture. Absolutely. By the way, I like boy bands.

I'm not saying, but there was certainly, not to say they were manufactured, even though some of them were, but they were produced to sell to a mass audience of. For sure. So we were like a good next step into the journey of like, who am I? What kind of music do I like? It's more organic. We did write our own songs and we dressed ourselves. And so it was more organic.

For sure. But not to say we weren't trying to be as presentable as possible because where we came from, in our minds, we came from a very small place. We had no experience in entertainment. And our minds, like, that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to look like a rock star, dressed a certain way. So we were trying for sure. If you see the first album, we got led into a room with clothes and we like,

we shined ourselves up, like, as much as we could. And when I look back on that picture, I'm no longer as embarrassed as I used to be. But I have affection for it because I go, we had never had access to, like, whatever clothes you want. And how do you want to dress? And big photographer and lights. And so, yeah. And you had no, I mean, now this interview is just being, it's about you. Because I have so many questions for you.

You had no business being as, like, confident as you were. Zero. Right? Like what the fuck? Who do you think you are? Who do you think you are? It's like the dripping eyeliner. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. My question for you is did you ever go like full Joey Fatone, Chris Kirkpatrick, and mascara in the beard around the jaw to create a jawline? No. Okay. I'm glad to be clear. Not that. I can't do that. Okay. Can I also tell you this. Yeah. So I have identical twin boys. Mm-hmm. When I found out I was pregnant with identical. identical twin boys. Identical twin boys.

Like me and bench. Yes. Yeah. When the doctor told me, they do like a, oh. Ooh. And I had no idea. Oh. It's like not a scared.

So you instantly are like, what? Look at that. And they just pan over and there's just another one chilling in there. There's a whole other baby. So I'm like blacking out. I'm panicking. I had no idea this would happen. And the two images that pop, they tell you right away they're identical.

they told us they were boys. The two images that pop into my mind are the property brothers and the Madden twins. Oh, yeah, the guys who fix up houses. Well, one of them fixes and one of themselves, Joel, get it. That's right.

Don't get it twisted. They're a team. They work together. That's like me and Bench. Yes. So I was like, okay, you gave me strength in that moment that I was, you know, I was either pregnant with a contractor

and a realtor or good Charlotte. Yes. So thank you. You know what? Twins is very special. Tell me more. No, seriously, because my guys are seven and they're like currently gouging each other's eyes out and I feel like I'm not doing a good job raising them. And all I want is for them to be friends and bandmates and business partners when they're older. Yeah. I think people are going to tell you like separate them. Yeah. Don't. Oh, okay. Should I call the school now or because they are currently in separate classes? Yeah, they did that to us at the same age. They tried to separate us and we hated it. Really? And it was not good for us. And then they left. us be together. Now, things happen like in middle school, you might have different classes or whatever, but like I remember in school they separated us and we hated it and we're best friends.

So I'm not saying that the separation, that might be, that might actually in the long run make them more like us, which was we did get separated and we hated it. And then we always found our way back together any chance we got. And we are just best friends and we've always been best friends and we call each other 20 times a day and we text a hundred times a day. We say good night to each other. We say good morning to each other. Yeah, I mean, it might sound like corny or whatever, but like, I don't care. I'm literally on the verge of tears. This is the most beautiful thing I've ever heard. And our wives had to kind of get used to that as well because like we share like he doesn't knock. He comes over and just comes in. Like we just share space. So like it is like having like another person in

your life if you're married to a Madden brother. Right. But a twin maybe, I think there's other twins out there that are as close as that. But when you get used to it, it actually is a strength. Like you do have like another team member. Wow. And luckily our wives are so close that it works. I could not imagine if they didn't get along.

And they are so close. They're like sisters. And it's really sweet. But I don't know how it would work if they didn't like each other. That would be, I don't even know what that would be like. I didn't know what you wouldn't want to know. Yeah. That is the greatest thing that I've ever been told about twins.

It's amazing. It's like it's I could not imagine my life without my brother. I couldn't even imagine like what. Like I really give him credit for everything. Like I always say like I have everything I have. My life has been what it's been because of my brother. And he would probably say the same thing, but I really think it's him, not me. Does it not bother you when people mistake you for each other?

Like you're just used to it. All the time. Okay. People come up to me like, hey, man, that was so great to see you the other day. And they'll start talking for like five minutes. And I was just waiting to like jump in and go, hey, I think you, I think you're talking about Benj. I'm Joel. He's brother.

Wow. Wait a second. You're Joel because I thought I was on Benji's podcast. Should I move to the other room? Yeah. Well, yeah. His is in Santa Barbara. Oh, for us a long drive.

Yeah, let's settle in then. Just you and not. Not as cool as mine either. No, please. Doesn't even put it online. What? He just does it for himself. For fun.

Yeah, he just invites people into a small space. He's a purest. He just wants to have a conversation and share it with no one. That's so beautiful. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah.

You should go do that one though. And then compare them. Yeah. That's cool, though. You have twins. You're a mom of twins. I'm a mom of twins. And are those your, are those your only two?

They should be. Yeah. But they're not. Because you have a daughter. That's right. Uh-huh. I saw that. Three kits.

Yeah. It's one too many kids. I didn't say which one. Yeah, exactly. It was just, yeah, you're going to let them, mathematically, you're going to let them wonder that for the rest of their life. Am I the one? No, no, I'm not going to let them listen to this. I'm going to direct them to the Benji podcast that I did.

So we'll never hear this one. Three children. You're a funny mom. Thank you. Yeah. Your comedy is very, very funny because it's like, it's like the mom thing. You know, the mom thing? you're not making it seem very cool which is a no it's like funny because it's true but it's also

really fucking funny yeah like you at a chucky cheese is funny because i've been there and it is like that it's just kind of tired you're just kind of tired you're just kind of tired and it sucks and you're just standing there because you're like i think the kids are having fun i mean i brought them here and they're there and i think they're having fun i can't tell completely if they're having fun but they're here and they're participating absolutely and now i'm just here killing time And trying to be a good parent by going like, yeah. Good job. So fun.

The only thing I'm thinking about is like, are they contracting a communicable disease on that merry-go-round? Right. You've been to a Chuckie cheese. Yeah. Tell me how that goes down. Because I posted a video I was at, I don't want to brag on this podcast, but I was at a Chuckie Cheese for a children's birthday party this weekend. Exactly.

That's why you go. Yeah. That's why I posted a video of myself literally just tolerating every moment of it. Tolerating it. I felt it so deep. Thank you. I felt it so deep in me. It made me laugh because I was like, you don't even have to say anything.

You just do a montage of you in every different place that I would have literally have been because it's a certain age range from zero to like nine, eight maybe. There's a certain age range where you have to kind of be near your kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't just let them. No. And so you're like, you're kind of just standing. and then you're like having a like small talk with some other parent and yes you have to but not that you two

would ever talk ever no and they're not bad people you're just like you know you're just in the world with your kid and staying within 10 feet of them so that you know you can keep them from you know horrible things happening and then you're like just killing time with the other parent doing the same thing but if you were that other parent at the chucky cheese that I was at if I turned around and I saw Joel Madden at like the Papa shot. I don't know if I would. You would have made my day. No.

Yes. I just can't imagine you in regular parent spaces. Really? I've been doing it now for 16 years. I know you have. It's wild. It's wild, yeah. Yeah.

But I have. Yeah, you just go and you stand there and you talk about stuff and kill a little time. You're like, you know. I do. Has anyone ever asked to take a picture? with you in like a really embarrassing place. Like has anyone. Of course. And you just do you say.

Nicole too. Like she's she gets a way worse than me. Right. I mean I'm like at least a little bit standoffish. Do you have chapel rhone rules or do you say yes? No, no, no. I don't have chapel rhone rules. All due respect. I, I respect her rules. I'm nothing wrong with those. No. But when you're with kids, it's different. Yeah. Because you're suddenly a little bit Chuckie cheese. and you can't not be Chuckie Cheese if someone's treating you like Chuckie Cheese

you've got to be a little bit like get the guitar on so you're suddenly like oh you want me to put the mouse suit on okay hold on and it isn't even Mickey Mouse it's Chuckie Cheese like God I wish I was Mickey Mouse but I am literally kind of Chuckie Cheese

it wasn't quite Mickey Mouse but it wasn't a flop Joel Madden of Good Charlotte doing a Chuckie Cheese Impress is something I didn't know I needed, and I'm so glad I've received. Yeah. Anything could happen. Wow.

Yeah. It's self-awareness. Yes. Yes. It really is. It's just reality, you know, because on one hand, you're in the same boat. You're entertaining for a job. Uh-huh.

So you're going on tour and you're doing a stand-up. But then every once in a while, you're going to come into a situation where someone wants you to do stand-up. And you're just like there with your kids. And it's like fucking 11 a.m. on a Saturday. You were up late. Maybe you had like your one night out with your, you know, your friends or your wife or whatever husband. And, and then you're like, and you're there and you're like, the kids are like there and the like, I think they're having fun. I mean, they're here. Yeah. And then you're just like, okay. All right. I'm just going to like catch my breath for this next hour and a half or two while they're, you know, while I don't have to

physically hold them. Right. And so I'm just recharging a little bit. And you never know when it's going to happen, but someone's like, hey, Chucky, you're on. Do you know that I was in Vancouver, my hometown a couple of weeks ago? I was with my kids. Somebody approached me at a subway restaurant. Again, I don't mean to brag, but I was dining at a subway. Yeah. And we talked and it was fine. And then this person posted, it was like, saw Jesse Crook, she got the subway. She was not very funny. Yeah. I was like, no shit. I was ordering three kids meals and this. I'm trying to stuff this sandwich. my kid's mouth so that I can move on to the next activity and just get to five o'clock so that we could

have dinner and then I could put them to bed. Thank you. Like you're in that age, like I'm saying, like zero to seven, eight, nine, right? It's great. Okay. You love it. No, but does it get better? Yeah, of course.

Okay. But you have to physically be with them all the time and watch to make sure that nothing happens. Right. They don't get hurt or that's a job that unless you completely farm it out, out, which you don't, most parents don't, it's hard work. At the end of the day, you're tired. It doesn't matter who did what. Your husband, you, you guys are deviated. Whoever's doing what. There's a partnership, but like some days are going to be harder for you, some days for your partner, whatever. At the end, you're tired. So in the process of it, everybody has a different work

personality. People come up like to you. And it's not that you're like, you don't hate them. you're just like, oh, you don't realize I'm actually just doing this job over here. Sandwich, yeah. Getting my kids a subway sandwich and getting through my fucking day. Yeah. So, yeah, sorry. I also think it's funny that you have said a couple of times now that I have to make sure that my kids are okay and alive because I don't do that for the third one. Third one just holds on.

It's kind of like drags. Herd one has raised herself. Yeah, you just put them in like a backpack. Absolutely. I didn't look at that third one once at the Chucky Cheese. When it was time to go, I was like, is she still here? I mean, and she's better for it. Yeah, she's going to have a lot of resilience.

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. She was like a very early talker, which probably happens because she was surrounded by, you have a younger sibling, right? Hey, notice me over here. I can talk. I'm six months old.

Yes. Literally six months. No, it's like before she was walking. Yeah. Full sentences. All the moms at the L.A. preschool are like, Is she on a phonics app?

What Reiki healer are you taking her to? Yeah, no, it's called neglect. Thank you. I was like, no, I literally. It's a great raise. It raises children, really. Absolutely. I didn't do shit.

The 90s method. Uh-huh. Totally. My daughter, like, can speak a full sentence doesn't know colors. It likely has tons of talent that you don't even know about. Do you think? Probably. Okay.

Just haven't stopped to notice yet. If the talent is eating carbons, and cheese exclusively, then very talented. Yeah, but I noticed that we only have two. The first kid gets all this attention and like you're trying to like figure out how to parent. Yeah. And then by the time you get it down, the second kid comes and you're kind of like, eh, they'll be all right.

But the first one, you already have this like, they dominate all the relationships. Like I'd say that like my daughter makes the rules of the house. Yes. son just goes along with it. Really? Yeah. Is that a boy girl? You think older younger?

Older younger. Yeah. What about between you and your, well, I'm sure you're now fully grown men. Do you know who is older? You or Benji? Because I haven't told my boys yet. Well, he came out first. Oh, he did.

Yeah. But you don't say older. You say he came out first. No, he, yeah, he's older. Okay. We say older. He's five minutes older. Is that hard for you to say that out loud.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's older. He's older. And when did you find that? When did you learn that? Oh, we were told that our whole life.

Okay. Three kids is a real, it's a real undertaking. Yeah. It's, I don't recommend it. I think we were in the haze of the pandemic. Right. Where I wasn't touring. I wasn't traveling.

Normally I'm like flying back and forth to Canada. You got some time. I had time. I was like, well, we're really doing it. We could throw in another one. Yeah, this is great. And then we did. And then I had to go on tour

with a literal newborn baby, like a three-month-old baby at home. And I realized in that moment I had made a terrible mistake. She's not the mistake. But three kids is, it's so many children. And trying to like still do what I do with that many kids is tough. It's a great accomplishment if you can have kids and a career. Period. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. And not enough people acknowledge that. No, no, not at all. And this is no offense to the. the people who do not work and raise children exclusively, that is a really hard job. God bless them. God bless them.

But I think there is like a, I think it is, yeah, it's really hard to do both. Yeah. Really hard. How's work going? Thanks for asking. It's going okay. Is it hard? Just in general.

Just comedy. Is it hard? Yeah. Seems like it's like a tough, like it seems like a fun job. But to get started is, it seems tough. Like it's a tough For sure. Yeah, it's a tough world.

I started at MTV as a host on MTV when I was very young. I'm sure you came on my show. I was like a face of MTV Canada in the 2000s. I remember. And so I was like a known person and I never really had to like, you know, be at the clubs. I kind of could go from there and start doing, you know, I posted like the Jews. are like Grammys in Canada. I hosted like Canadian country music awards.

And there was a certain point where I was like, oh, if I can make a stadium filled with Canadian country music artists, laugh at jokes that I've written about Canadian country music artists, of which there are 12 total. Then I should probably do this for my own people. And like, you know, and that's sort of why I started in comedy. So I sort of, I never really had to start like, like a lot of people do.

And I have an immense respect for people who are out here at the clubs. Yeah, but standup is hard. Well, it's hard because you're, you're immediately vulnerable. Yeah, you're like, okay, now make us laugh. But I feel like I have always been that way in my whole career. Like I was never sort of polished or perfect. I was never like a what's up nation. Welcome to MTV.

Like I couldn't ever do that or be that. Right. So I only ever really knew how to be my. And so if you go on stage and you are completely vulnerable and completely yourself and completely willing to talk about your, what was it, vaginal birth, then like, you know, I think it's, I think it's easier. I think if you go out there and you're trying to be someone you're not or trying to make jokes about things that you don't fully understand, then it would be a lot harder. Yeah. It's easier if you could be yourself in life, period. Period.

It's more sustainable. When do you think you figured out who you were? 31. Oh. Yeah. Go on. Why do you know that number so, like why is that so clear? Just popped into my head right when you asked. And I'm a big, big time first thought.

31. Yeah. Did you have kids at that point? Yeah. You're married at that point? Uh, maybe just getting married. I'm sorry. You had kids out of wedlock?

I did. Yeah. Go on. Yeah. My mom was really happy about that. Oh, yeah. Is your mom religious? Yes.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Got it. Did she pressure you to get married? No. Okay. No, I told her that wasn't going to happen.

Okay. You know, luckily I got to a place with my mom where I could be honest with her and say at whatever cost. Like, it could be uncomfortable for a few months if you don't agree with my lifestyle. Right. You know, like it's a choice. Yeah. You know, the test of every friendship relationship is to let each other be yourself.

Mm-hmm. And I met Nicole. We were both in our 20s and we neither one of us kind of really like were, I don't think we had even processed what we'd been through in our like roller coaster ride of success. And what does that even mean? And you think you know who you are when you're in your 20s, but you don't. And I was extremely coming from a religious home in the middle of nowhere with no worldly experience. Yeah. I was really immature in a lot of ways. Like I was underdeveloped emotionally and I had a lot of work to do. So I was lucky that I had been around a bunch of good people. Yeah. So I didn't have a lot of like trauma. Probably just my self-esteem was the thing I needed to work on.

So anyways, I, when we met and then she got pregnant, it was all kind of like a whirlwind. It happened fast and that's when I think when we had our first kid we had my daughter where I was like oh shit like life is real like I need to figure out like what I care about who am I and I have some stuff to unpack yeah and so then I started working on myself really like going to therapy and trying to grow and that's when I think I started to like understand like what I was what I wasn't what I needed to like work on and and then that I never stopped so I've very started. I've been really like focused on personal growth. Yeah.

And like living in my real life. And then I go to work and I try to try to work. But like at the end of the day, I don't care as much about that as I do about my wife and kids and real life that, you know, live together. Yeah. At whatever cost, you know, I kind of just like said I'm okay with it. Yeah. And I'll roll the dice and just care about something more than success.

And it's all worked out. in its own way. Like it's not perfect, but it's worked out in a way where I get to do what I love and do things that I think are interesting. And I care about them deeply, but I don't care about it as much as I care about the experience that I'm having with my wife and my kids. That's beautiful. It is. No, it is. It takes some people don't ever realize that or don't ever figure out what those priorities are. That's the other thing is I'm not sitting here going like, I figured it out. Just for me. Yeah. Whatever I need. needed to get out of life that I didn't get as a because I you know my parents couldn't figure it out

broken home all that stuff whatever I needed to get out of a family experience I got from my family with my wife yeah and whatever that was I needed it more than you know whatever I could however many tour many more tours I could do or records I could make so I stopped working as much in the like good Charlotte we really like slowed down we we were kind of like a machine yeah making records go go go go go and now we kind of do what we feel when we feel it which is is like every few years maybe yeah and it's not a lot i wanted to be more we did make a record what yeah we have a new record we made now we just have to figure out how to put it out what do you mean how to put it out like when and how do you do it this is so exciting if you tour to tour that album that would be we're going to tour

we're going to do something wow yeah it's just trying to try to do it's just trying to to figure out how we all have kids yeah so i feel like i'm in a i'm gonna try not to cry on your podcast you can cry do people cry here oh once or twice we've had once maybe once yeah yeah i'm not gonna cry on this podcast you can cry first first cry first cry yeah i don't want to be your oh i don't to be your first cry. Yeah. I think it might be the first cry. Hey, well, I'm not crying yet. So let's just hold on for dear life together. All right. I get the question a lot, which is a stupid question because I'm a woman. People are always like, how do you balance it all? You have three kids. You tour. How do you balance it all? Right? And my answer is, like I don't eat well.

I don't exercise. I don't take time. I don't know if I'm a hobby. Yeah, there's no time. No. All I do is grind for my career and I grind for my children. It's all spoken for. Right. That's what I do. And that's like not great advice, but it's how I do it. And so I had a fall tour plan for this fall. And my dad unexpectedly passed away. Oh, I'm sorry. Thanks a month before I was supposed to go on tour. And every part of me said, just fucking go on the tour. Just do it. You can do it.

Suck it up. I went back to work on my daytime talk show when my twins were five weeks old. Like I birthed them vaginally. I was like, you do hard things. Do this. And I'm sitting there like I'm writing a eulogy on one document. Then I'm trying to write jokes in another document. And I'm trying to just like push.

through to make this comedy tour happen. And I had a moment where I was like, oh, I can't push through this. I can't do it. And for the first time in my entire career, I made a decision for me. And that was to postpone the tour. And I told people why, which I was really afraid to do. I thought people would be pissed. I thought they would be angry. Or mean. Right. And instead, people were not just understanding, they were appreciative. I think that I, in letting go, I gave other people permission to let go or to make space for themselves

or time for themselves when they need to. And it's been the best decision that I could have made. And as a result, like, I don't know, Joel, but I find in dealing with sort of navigating someone's death, it has shown me how I want to live my life. because at the end of it all, like, no, you know, people were celebrating my dad for his career achievements, but most people were talking about him as a man and as a dad and as a person. And that's how you're going to be remembered.

Like, yes, we are going to play the anthem at your funeral. But people are going to celebrate you as a person and a friend and, like, a man. And that's what life is all about. So I feel like I have had this major shift in terms of my priorities just in the last few months. Yeah, it's interesting how you were close with your dad. Really close. That's tough. Be close with your mom too.

Yeah. But it is weird when you lose one because my parents were really different and they both gave me very different things. And so when you don't have the one, you're like all of the things that the other parent has the kind of, yeah, you realize how they balanced each other out. So it's hard to navigate how to move forward with just my mom, even though she's an amazing mom. she can never be my dad, you know. Yeah, he was a source for you for something that, like, is gone. Mm-hmm. Well, it's changed.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I found that. My dad passed away when I was in 2019. Sorry, I didn't know. That's okay. You know, we didn't have a great, like, I've talked about it before, but we didn't have a, like a normal relationship because he was not in my life for a long time.

And then when we had a relationship, all I had to compare it to was like nothing. And then we had 10 like really nice years where I felt like I had a dad. Even though it wasn't quite the same relationship that I see people who like grew up with their dad their whole life and like had this like they have this like deep evolving relationship through these different eras of their life where you know, your relationship with your parents evolves as you become an adult. then you're a parent. And then when he passed away, it was like a real deep loss. And I kind of realized, like, the loss was not only the person that I knew and the relationship I had with them that I really liked.

And we really, I did get a lot out of it. It was also, like, a deep loss for the thing I'd never had with him. Yeah. And it was just realizing, like, everything in life for me, everything becomes this game I want to win. Oh. And so I'm very competitive and like I work hard and I'm trying to figure out how to win this game that I'm playing. Like pop a shot at Chuck Echee cheese, if you will.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Go on. And I realized like, oh, that's a game I was never going to win. And it's like a deep, deep loss. But also, even though our relationship was what it was, that's really what it was. Yeah.

Somehow he was still teaching me something. And when he passed away, I gained a lot of. a lot from that really sad experience. And it made me a better father. And I think it made to my kids, to myself. And I realize like regardless of what our relationship is with our parents, some of us have really nice relationships and they're really close. Some of us have very very complicated relationships. But we're still having a relationship that we have to make sense of and that we are like gaining something from. You obviously had a great relationship. great relationship with your dad.

Likely, he taught you some things and supported you in, like, becoming who you are. But then also, you're gaining another insight from him, even in this painful time that's making you better. Because I do think it's important to stop when you need to stop and put yourself first. Okay, tears coming. Pause. One tear is coming. You did it.

You did it. I'm the first crier. Well, the thing is I didn't cry talking about my dad. I cried hearing about yours. Well, it's sad. And I think it's amazing that you've had a relationship with him. Like, aren't you grateful in looking back that you did that? Very. Yeah. Yeah, I'm very grateful. So when I think about that, I think like I'm grateful that I could, you know, and I had my brother, which is the amazing thing about being twins. But it's also why I don't give a fuck. So I always think about it when I'm here. and I go, no matter what the world thinks of me, it's because of some idea they have in me. That's not actually me. Something that I said or I sung, it's a part of me.

It came out of me, but is it me? Uh-huh. And I love people. And I am generally like looking for good. But at the same time, I think we have to be ourselves. And the journey that I've been on is figuring out how to be myself and be okay with and just like myself and get up every day. I don't need to be king of the world. I just want to like myself and feel good about where I'm at, what I'm doing.

And the idea that I need more is something that says I am not good enough. So as long as I gut check why I want to achieve something or do something and make sure that it's because I want to do it. Yeah. Not because I need more so that you'll like me. I want people to like me, but not at what at what cost, at the cost. a lying or giving away my own health, my own sanity, my own. And so like that's the balance, the work life balance is like, you should work. That's what we should do in life. We should

like aim upwards and try really hard. Like that's generally I think that's what we should all do. Everyone deserves to be the best they can be, whatever that means, to be happy. But if your, if my happiness hinges on you giving up your own sanity and happiness, this is in a healthy relationship. Right. And so as an artist, you have to find the balance of achieving for your own personal self-esteem and self-love and all that. And just like, I want to do it.

I want to see if I can climb that mountain with what you care about. And you certainly care more about your kids and you care more about your dad. then you give a fuck about selling out a show. Oh my God. Yes. Or and that makes me go, oh, oh, I like that person more because they like, they care about something more than being king of the world. Yes.

You know what I mean? Yes. And do you know what is crazy? Like I, I had this whole email draft with Live Nation written about postponing my show, which said, due to unforeseen circumstances, the. Now that's what I call that. And it was all ready to go because I didn't want to tell anybody what I was going through because it was too hard, too raw.

I didn't want to have to hear other people's stories of their loss or grief at all times of the day. Like I just wanted to protect that part of me. Yeah. But I am not a due to unforeseen circumstances kind of lady. I am a like vaginal birth person. I will just put it all out there. And I was like, why in this moment are you trying to be?

this just be fucking real and honest and you're right that's what has been the most surprising part is that people have been grateful and i actually don't mind hearing people like i feel connected to you in a way that i never thought i would because we share this terrible thing yeah you're in a parent you're in like a very sad club yeah and i feel more connected to the people who have kind of grown up watching me or who come to my shows or who follow me like i really do it also forces us to get in touch with the thing we've I think for me wanting to chase success in entertainment, music, whatever. So you could just make art. You could just do that.

You don't have to be in front of it. Totally. But I wanted to be in front of it. And so I always examined that. Like what part of me needed to get up in front of everyone and make them clap for me? I'll tell you, the little kid who was in those videos being like, that kid. Like you have something.

that not a lot of people have. Maybe in some way, shape or form. Maybe. You do. But I think what we run away from, though, is, well, for me, I think what I, so I try to, I always, like, overanalyze, which is good and bad, but is part of me. I think I was running away from the truth of life and the suffering of life. And I think that, like, at some point, you're going to be faced with it.

You can't escape it. All of us have to face that. Like you're going to lose people and you're also a human being. So you're going to get sick. You're going to have human stuff happen. And I think we're all in some way, shape or form trying to escape that like reality in all different ways. People do it online. They do it on social media.

They do it. People do it by getting famous. Uh-huh. They're like, if I can just be the most famous person ever, forever and ever, I'll never have to shit. Right. I'll never throw up. I'll never lose anyone. I'll never be a disgusting human being. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yes. And like that's the part where I go, no, like, I'm not saying it's bad. It is what it is. Like you go and you entertain people. There's a lot of good things that happen there. But there's also the reality of life that like you also have to deal with this pain of life. Like you're going to lose someone and it's going to be really painful and it's going to be. really hard to figure out how to deal with that in front of everybody. Yeah. And then how do you do that?

And then you were like, you came to the conclusion that you should just be honest. And I think that was probably like cathartic in a way. I think very much so. Because you kind of become invincible. Yeah. Okay. Not yet. But maybe one day.

But yeah. I think too like I, um, working in this business. and having young kids, I always, I never want anyone to think. And I think a lot of moms feel this way, no matter what business they're in. Like, I never want people to think that I'm not available because I have kids. I never want people to think like I. So I will say yes to everything because I can do it all and I'm going to be fine. And so for my dad's funeral, we had all of our family coming in and we were going to take a few days to be together.

And I thought, you know what, I should really put an out of office message. on my email. So I go to my email, cannot find it, don't know how to do it, finally get my husband to provide tax support, get into the out of office section of my email. The last time I had an out of office on my email was for two days after I birthed my identical twin boys seven years ago. I gave myself two days of not being available via email and then seven years later gave myself two days for my father's funeral. And I was like, there is something fucked up about this, about how, you know, I have been operating trying to make it seem like I'm, I can always be yours and I'm always available. Yeah. And how we, I think, in our culture, operate. Like, we don't take time to step away for

anything. Yeah. It sounds to me like that, that experience that you had was a real like life moment where you you don't stop and think about these things. You just go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And you're doing it all. And it's tough because in entertainment, the rules are different for women and men. For sure. No one's just saying shit about my kid, me and, you know, I had kids. And they're not like looking at how I'm doing anything. But can I just say this footnote? Yeah. You interviewed my future second husband, Pierre Bouvier, a simple plan. I grew up desperate for Pierre Bouvier. He's a really nice guy.

He's a Canadian. He's like a cute. It was like you guys were like, you know, a little too probably like bad boy for me. But Pierre Bouvieier, too edgy. Pierre Bouvier was like a ginger with a spiked cuff. I was like, oh, I can handle Pierre Bouvet. Yeah. So when you had him on your podcast, he was talking about touring and you asked him how he was going to deal with that with his family.

And I was like, oh, shit, I don't think I've ever heard one man ask another man, a musician, a touring musician, how you're going to make that work with your kids. And I was like, bravo, Joel. Yeah. And I think where I'm coming from is actually I know he cares about his family. Right. And I know that it's hard. Yeah. And so leaving to go and work is very hard when you care about your family.

And I don't assume that he is doing that. with no regard for like, how do you make that work? How do I see my kids? How do I find the balance of like, I don't know what anyone thinks, but when you go out on a tour, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

If you want to bring a whole ass family with you, you're not making any money on that tour. You got hotels, buses, this, that, everything, by the time it's done, it was like a very expensive vacation that you had to pay for so that you could be close to them. So then you have to measure,

like if this is part of the function of making a living and I'm not making any money, then why am I doing this tour? Well, I guess because the fans want it. Okay, so I'll go away from my kids for two months and make money. But then I have to be away from them. But I don't want to be away from them and it isn't worth the money to me because somewhere in there they're going to do something that I'm never going to be able to get back. And so you're left in this conundrum of figuring out how to make it work.

And it's really hard. I am so glad you just said that. because the amount of people who have said to me, and granted I left a baby, I had like a young baby when I was touring last, but the amount of people who were like, and so did you bring your kids on tour? And I was like,

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No, I'm not dragging three kids on tour? It's expensive and then you're all day long you're

looking for a Chuckie cheese taking care of them. Yes. And then you go on stage and you're

exhausted. Yes. I've done that before. I'm fine to do it again, I guess. But you got to also remember the places that people are making any of their opinions known or their comments is on social media comment sections.

So it's a passing thought. Right. Ooh, whatever. Like, they just, they vomited out. Yeah. And it's like the equivalent of like a burp. That's how I see comments sometimes. I'm like, you didn't think about that, did you?

You just burped it up. blew it up. Walk away. Blewed on me. Like, you're stinking. opinion of like, like you could give two fucks. You're not even buying a ticket. There was no price of admission for you to come and make this comment. Right. And you're not even coming to the fucking tour. So I'm, I'm actually trying to figure out how to go and do this for people who

actually want to see it. But at this age, I don't feel beholden to them either. I'm just kind of like, I know you, I know you guys want a tour and we are going to try to do it and we're going to do as many as we can. It might be two shows. Might be 20. I don't know. But don't even think that if I had to choose, I'm choosing my kids. I'm choosing, like, to be home with my kids and do nothing and just be near them. Because I got four years left before they're adults. And they're doing it the fuck they want. Yeah, you do. And so I got to hold on to that. And so you're just kind of sitting there trying to find the balance. Right. And it's just fucking complicated and no one's going to have a good answer. So you just have to come to what makes you feel good and make those decisions because you're,

someone's losing. See, I would argue, though, at times I am winning when I leave my three children at home. Yeah, you get a little break. It's like people will say, oh my God, that's so hard. You do shows every night. You're traveling. You're up late. It's exhausting.

I'm like, this is a vacation compared to being home with my children. I get to sleep in a hotel room by myself. I get to sleep in past 6 a.m. Like, I love being on the road. I'm showering. No one's popping their little face in there. Which is great for three days or two weeks. Right.

But then after two weeks, even two weeks is tough. Like, once you get past a certain spot where it's no longer, mom went on a little trip, two months out, grinding. Yeah. Is really tough. And I see my friend, I was just talking to my friend Matt. He's in Winneka Bowling League and they're touring and it's really hard. he's literally flying home on every day off because he's trying to keep the normalcy of dad during this like eight week tour he's flying home on a day off just to be home two days a week

it's insane but that's what he has to do so the eight weeks away from your dad not seeing your dad and they go out when they can but they're in school yeah so they're going to pull all their kids out of school they have three they have four kids it is not easy so like it's just funny because people will just say some shit like, must be hard. And you're like, yeah, actually, it is really fucking hard. It's really fucking hard. I think I am going to bring my kids on this spring tour for like a date because I want them to think I'm cool.

And see what you do. They have never seen me in this context. They've seen it on screen, but I think it's different. No. I think they're going backstage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They can't sit in the audience. Half of the shit is not appropriate.

They're going to be like, what did she say? A vaginal birth? What is happening? But no, I want them to think I'm cool. I think that's what it is. You talked about like seeking the approval of fans and the internet and whoever it is. Now I'm at a phase of my life where I'm like, if my kids think I'm fucking cool, then I'm done. Me too.

I also want to say to you, thank you. You're an executive producer of my stand-up special. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I got to type here. Well, I didn't type it, but I got to see your little name on my credits. And I felt very proud.

It was an honor. Thank you. And thank you for bringing it to Veeps. You know what? I only exclusively work with identical twins. So when I, it's just like, I don't know, it's in my contract. So when I saw it was you and Benji, I said absolutely. It's good.

It was fun to come to VEPS because VEPS let me do whatever I want it. Yeah. Listen, it's very, very like what VEPS is and what it's becoming is really important. And it's so interesting because it's cool. We started it seven years ago. It's grown and grown and grown and grown. And it's continuing to like become its own thing. But that's because it needs to exist.

So in a space where like we should be able to make what we want and create it and put it into the world in a way that's elevated and not again. Like YouTube is definitely important, but you are not going to be able to keep out all the like just people don't give a fuck about what you're doing. And they're just passing through to throw something at you. Yeah, burping. And burping in your face. You know what I mean?

So I think this platform in what used to be MTV, what used to be places where we went for cool shit, that was music and culture. And it hasn't existed for a long time. So I think it's really interesting where it's going. I'm really excited about it. It's great. But it's because of people like you that are bringing their art to it. And it's exciting. Thank you for doing your special.

It was so fun. Truly. I am used to getting notes from people and feedback and having to tweak things, change things. Like I worked in network television for so long. And so I was, I probably over emailed the VEPS team being like, are we sure that everyone is cool? I can just say what I want, do what I want. No pushback. There's a section in my special where I,

I ask the women in the audience to throw, take off their old, sad, dirty, used bras and throw them at me on stage, Drake style. And then I like improv and go through them all and crown the saddest bra in that city. How were they in the bras? Just absolutely fucking disgusting. And this is what these girls wore out to a night out that they knew was being filmed for a special. I mean like, why you're poking out, Milk stains, sweat stains. Wow. That's crazy. I think one girl just sent up like the little maxi pads for the nipples that you use when you're breastfeeding. You know the ones.

I've heard of them. But like even when I was touring it, Live Nation said like, are we sure that people are going to do this? Veeps was like, whatever you want to do. We trust you. Sure. Yeah. And we had like 50 women throw their bras on show one. So, you know, thank you for the trust.

Do you have bras. every night. Every night. Wow. Yeah. Every night. That's a really, it's something you never think about. What?

Just old dirty bras? Just like, yeah. Yeah, like what, yeah, it's interesting. Joel, I've reached a phase of life where it has occurred to me that I spend more money on clothes for a toddler than I do on yourself. On yourself. Slash the undergarments that hold up my sad, tired bosom every day. Yeah.

I am out here wearing the same bra that I have been wearing since. 2012 and and I figured that there was a lot of women who would be coming to my shows who have done the same and I was not disappointed. I'm happy for you. Oh my God. It made you also feel like seen. Yes. Yeah. Right. Actually, it's all I was all just doing it to feel better about my own life choices. Yeah. You're like you know what? Everybody is struggling in realizing that they they probably should have bought, you know, some new underwear or socks or a bra sooner than tonight. Uh-huh.

And I'm like, oh, shit. Uh-huh. I didn't realize that I haven't been really taken care of myself. There is really that sense of community, though, that moment in the show is like, I tell the women I want them to take off their sad bras. And everyone's like, ah, this is a joke, right? And then there's a pause. And then Nellie's hot and here hits.

And suddenly, like, the first girl comes up. Yeah. And the next girl sees, and they're like, well, my bride isn't that bad. And then like the sports bras are flying at me and like, is there ever like a really pristine brawl where you're like, this doesn't get that. Get out of here. Yeah. I tell them to go fuck themselves. And by the way, in my world, a pristine bra is one where like there's two underwire instead of one.

You know what I mean? Like it's the bar is low. But if someone tries to throw up like a red bra or a pink bra, something that clearly like used to be cute, I'm not even talking about it. Right. I'm exclusively looking at like the nude color bras that don't actually match. anyone's skin tone unless they're severely anemic. Like, that's the kind of bra that I want to discuss on my show. Yeah.

It's worthwhile. Yeah. You're a good mom. Thank you. And you're funny. Thank you. Yeah. Congrats on the special.

I really appreciate that. Imagine if I wasn't, if I just came in here and I just cried the whole time. That would have been good, too, though. Okay. Good. Thanks for coming. Thanks for having me, Joel. God.

It was fun. Am I your first cry officially? Yeah, you are. First cry. Perfect. We just put that in the title of the episode. First cry. Great.

Yeah. No, seriously. Thank you. It was a great surprise. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of artist friendly. If you really liked it, you can follow, like, subscribe to the show, anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support. And we'll see you next time.