Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Jonny Capeci of Nightly

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

Listen in as Nightly vocalist Jonny Capeci joins Joel Madden on the latest episode of Artist Friendly. Earlier this year, the alt-pop outfit shared their second studio album, wear your heart out, and now are in the midst of playing it live across the U.S. on their headlining tour. It’s a record that they say “was made to be played live,” with the band playing most of its songs every night. The run will wrap with a hometown show on Nov. 16 at Nashville’s Brooklyn Bowl, and you can grab tickets for the remaining dates here. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up everybody? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'm talking with Johnny Capici from the band Nightly. Their new album, Where Your Heart Out, is out now. We'll be talking about it and a bunch of other stuff. Let's go. How's it going, dude? It's great, man.

This is an awesome spot. Thanks. Yeah, they were saying it's management, like, kind of everything. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. It's like, yeah, it's kind of like, I mean, it is our offices, but it's really more like just like a big studio. So it's like a big recording studio. You know how like every studio has its own vibe? So you like, whether it's your friend's house and they have a guest house set up or a basement or whatever, everyone has their own like

space they create where they can. We got this building, probably like eight years. years ago. And it was a recording studio like functioning as oh sick. They booked it out. It was like a like a, like a really actually like working studio that a lot of people used like hip hop and R&B and pop. And it was we ended up buying it. We had started our music company and it was growing and we were looking at like just rents were crazy for the size of the company. I think even. even at like eight people it was like trying to find a space in hollywood was just really hard to find a affordable place to like and um and then this building this studio came up for sale and we're like we should just buy that building and like bet on the future of music and the studios

stay booked out just between our friends and artists that we work with and artists were friends with and it's like friends and family so you still have like active recording studio in this building as well Three of them. Wow. Yeah. And so we have like a friends and family kind of vibe. So if someone needs a place to record, if the rooms are open, we figure it out, they come in, they record, and they don't have to spend a ton of money on like.

Yeah. Just renting a studio in L.A. can cost the whole record budget for people. So it's nice when our, at least we feel like our friends and artists we know, if they need to record, they don't have to spend a ton of, not that artists have to spend a ton of, not that artists have to spend a ton of money today to record. Yeah. But there is something to go into a studio and like having that space that's kind of inspiring, I think. And oh yeah, for sure. It invites creative process. It's been great, man, because these studios just stay full. People use them all the time. Yeah, that's sick. And like, I feel like it's cool too. Like, do you know the people who owned it

before? I know you said there was like hip hop and pop records made it, but. Yeah. Yeah. Got a legacy. Yeah. I feel like that. I feel like that's cool. I feel like, like, I feel like, I feel like that's really cool too. Yeah, the history. There's so many home studios and like new studios, which is cool. But there's something like that's just like in the walls of a studio that's made some records before, you know? It's in the walls. Yeah.

You can feel it. And there's like a ton of famous records that were made in this building. Yeah, that's so sick. So like you can feel it when you're in those rooms. Like it's it's locked in there. Yeah. That's, I mean, I live in Nashville. So there's a lot of that kind of music history as well.

But it's sad because some of it's getting, it's growing so fast. So they're like taking some of that old historical stuff and making whatever, you know, apartment complexes. But yeah, paved paradise and put up a parking lot. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But I love that music history stuff. Like just being somewhere that a record was made, you know? Yeah.

Just feels cooler for some reason. Well, it's the aspirational side of what we do. Yeah. It's like we all started by liking someone else. We all started. That's how we, that no one was born and lived in a bubble where music was not a, where there was no. You had to be inspired by some artist that captivated your imagination and made you kind of go like, I could do that. Yeah.

You know, right. Or I want to do that. I want to be like them. Like, and I think that's the intangible. aspirational part of our, at least our start. I don't know, like maybe some people lose it as they go. I don't know. But at least our start was based on someone else's like art. Yeah, you're like continuing. It's like buying a vintage guitar, right? And you're like, you know, the songs that were probably written on this, you're sort of like continuing that story. So I think that that's dope.

How did you end up in Nashville? I don't know, really. It was kind of random. So I'm in the band in the band is me my cousin Joey in Knightley yep in Knightley yeah and then our drummer Nick okay so Joey and I both grew up in the South he he was kind of born in state in the South Jersey area but um we had some cousins down in Nashville and we always kind of knew that we wanted to do music um so we went down there for a trip randomly I think to like we We've been in bands just since we were like 12 years old. Yeah. So one of the bands, we took some trip down there, played a show at like, you know, in somebody's garage basically type of thing.

And there was a guy there who was like a friend of one of our cousins who was like, hey, you guys should come here and like learn how to write a song because your songs are terrible, but you guys like have something. Right. you know. And so yeah, we just like saved up some money and it felt more, I guess it felt more attainable than like coming to LA from the East Coast for us as like at that point didn't even really have a band. We were just kind of like jamming in and out of different bands. So yeah, so we were like, we'll go down there, try it for three, six months and then just like never left. You're stuck. Yeah. How old were you? When And so.

When you went down there? That was right out of high school. Oh, you're like 18. Yeah, 17, 18, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. That's around the same.

That's kind of the same timeline. We left home and started trying to make it. L.A. L.A. was dreamy when we first came. I remember when we got signed, we first came here. Oh, you were our first time on a plane. Well, you got signed before you came or after? When we came, that's why we came.

Oh, okay. Gotcha. It was probably 99. Okay. And it was such a like big overwhelming, but felt kind of magical. And I was like, I want to move here. But I didn't end up moving here until our third record. So had you guys ever played like a show out here or that was the first time?

We had never played a show out here. We had only toured the East Coast. So, you know, the Mid-Atlantic region. Yeah. Like everywhere from. Do you guys are close to D.C. Yeah. Yeah.

Maryland up to New York, kind of. New Jersey. Philly like we did that all the time we played all up and down the East Coast which is cool because there's tons of venues and little venues and short drives a little shows and back in the 90s it was like everything was kind of like genre-fied so there was like punk shows happening all the time and pop punk and emo and all that shit so we were just like jumping on shows anywhere we could and you start building a little network of other bands and working your way around and then locally the promoters would start putting us on like national tours that weren't selling well yeah yeah

we were always worth like a few hundred tickets yeah so they would throw us on like shows in philly shows in new york shows in dc baltimore and we started kind of like building that um and then that's when everything kind of started growing and labels and stuff all that all that happened but where'd you guys i'm trying to think of the venues is ramshead baltimore rams heads baltimore rams heads baltimore Yeah. There's a bunch of venues that aren't there anymore that were back in the day. Okay. Philly, you guys.

D.C., there was the Black Cat. Okay. And there were some other little tiny, like, revolving venues that would open and close that were, like, a DIY type shows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In Philly, there was the Pontiac Grill. There was TLA. Yeah, TLA is still there. There was...

Do you guys ever do? This is, like, a little bigger. but electric factory. Electric factory we did many times. Dude, yeah, that's where I grew up, like, going to shows. I loved electric factory. Awesome place. Which I don't know if it's still, because I've been in Nashville now for a while, but.

I think it is. But it was like bought, closed, new ownership. It might have been renamed. I'm not sure. I think it's still. I think it's still. I loved that venue. It was great.

Yeah. And then in New York, we did CBGBs. We did Bowery Ballroom. Yeah. We did Irving Plaza. we did like all and then in new jersey there were tons of places and in pennsylvania there were like harrisburg pennsylvania there's so many towns in pennsylvania college towns for sure Penn state with tons of little venue like Pennsylvania's full of little venues those shows would go off

they'd be like 200 kids packed in some bar yeah venue college type venue they're very like music starved up there you know and they like live yeah oh yeah they'll come to a like live show of a band they've never heard. For sure. If you pass out flyers during the day, like there was a real culture back then. And I think it was around the colleges or something, you know, in these college towns, because there's so many of them where you could go book a show and most of the people there had never heard or had maybe they'd heard of you.

But like, and back then there was like college promotional teams at labels and stuff. But before that, before we were signed, we would just go to wherever people were. or maybe it was the mall or the street in the college where all the restaurants and shopping was. And during the day, we would just be passing out flyers, passing out demos. And you'd get 50 people to the show just that way. And then you'd get asked to come back

and it would just grow. And it was like real straight up street team marketing type of. Yeah. Dude, I remember we did when we were like, I don't even know. We were probably like 14th. I remember like our moms were driving us around and stuff, but we would somehow we like got to play a show at a hot topic like or something. And then it was like then we would play it like hot topics like around Jersey and Philly.

Like, you know, and it's just it was just people walking by or whatever, but it's so weird. Was it the same band or a different band name? No, no. This is like I said, we've been in so many bands just throughout the years because it's always, I feel like we just did it like some people. do sports or skateboarding like it was just like go to school afterwards come home and just like make noise until mom says shut up you know what I mean like that's just what we did for fun that's pretty cool so it's always been something even if it was nothing like not even a real band like we would just throw shows in the backyard with our friends you know it's just what we did for fun and I feel like

we just kind of never really grew up when did nightly start nightly started in 2016 Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So we were in, again, another band before this, and we had booked a trip to L.A. actually. Because we were pretty like, we didn't travel, you know, to record or anything like that, but we had sort of saved some money and met somebody at some publisher or something

who set us up with some co-writes. And we had never co-written before. I don't know like how you guys are about that or what it was like growing up. But like growing up, it was just like you play with the guys in your band. You know, like that's who you write the songs with. Yeah, that's like that that's definitely how we did it. Yeah. And that's all we knew as well.

So the idea of like bringing some stranger in to write a song was like the most foreign. It's like almost like offensive. You know what I mean? Like what do you mean you try like come fix our songs? which now being a songwriter and like doing that for other people, I'm like I really enjoy it because I feel like I've been on both sides. But so anyways, yeah, we booked this trip. And then the other like member quit, you know, a week before.

And it was like, well, we can't get our money back. So we just went out there, made some songs. And the old band we had been doing just kind of some like sync stuff as well with MTV and where they would give us like, a really small amount of money, but to us it was like a million bucks. Yeah, what I mean? And so we're like, whatever, we'll just go out there and make some songs. Maybe we'll kind of sell them to MTV.

And they ended up being like the first couple songs that we released as nightly. And we were just like, that was probably November. So after that, we went home for Christmas. Which songs were those? So that would have been no vacancy. This song called Talk to Me. maybe even XO, which XO was the first song that we released. And yeah, we just, we had this like private sound cloud link.

And over the holidays, we came back in January. And I was like, Joe, I've been listening to the sound cloud link like every day. I was like, I don't know, man. Maybe we should try another band, you know? And at that point, you're just kind of like, and he was like, dude, same. Like, I haven't stopped listening to him. So that's kind of like, it sort of started accidentally. But yeah, so that was 2016.

Yeah, I was actually remembering, like, we had a conversation at some point in the past with, with you guys' management company. I don't remember who set us up. But I was, like, looking back in my emails, and I think we did, like, a FaceTime or, like, a call with you and your brother. When was that? I think it must have been, I think it was 2016. Yeah. and when I told Joe that like I was doing the podcast you know he was like I remember meeting you guys and it must have been that zoom yeah because I thought we had met yeah but I it sometimes

zoom life and real life get blurred because I liked your music that's why I asked when nightly started because I can't remember when I heard your music first so I thought it was maybe 2019 but maybe I'm wrong maybe it goes the years kind of blurred together yeah but um You got, I always thought you guys had airtight songs. Your songs are really well written, great songs. I can see why, um, thank you, man. I can see why like this band of all the things you've done, this band that you guys are getting traction. No doubt you have songs that people are like and all they need to do is hear them to like them.

The challenge for every band is, is kind of getting people to hear your music and give it a chance. Right, right. But to hear your band's music is to like it, in my opinion. Dude, thank you. That's why you're, I mean, ultimately for me, like, this is the great thing about this is like, this show is conversations that, like, no real point to them other than people listening don't get to participate in these conversations. And when we're at this studio every day, it's kind of when we talked about this in the

beginning was all these great conversations we have with all different artists that you would be surprised. I think fans maybe separate artists or whatever, but like, we're all doing the same thing. Right. And we're trying to achieve the same things. And we're trying to figure out how. Right. And so we all share experience and perspective. There's definitely, for whatever reason in our industry, taking care of yourself isn't always the sexiest thing, you know? Yeah, or being vulnerable about something that you care about. Yeah, right, right. Unless it's in like a song or something.

Right. But like you just think about the portrayal of a rock star, you know, somebody who's like coked out and whatever. And even to some degree, like that still exists like the mystique and all of it. And I think it's cool when you do meet people like yourself who are. And I think that's the cool thing about call it what you will, podcast, whatever. But a lot of the conversations I feel like that you've had have just been about. it's like why is that not cool to be like working on your mental health or whatever you know

or like physical fitness like for me that that's been such a huge game changer in my mental health because i have like i have such bad anxiety you know like you do yeah i couldn't guess that yeah well thank you i've been working on it you have a calmness about you that i've striking a striking calmness thank you man i mean dude but honestly for real, it's definitely been something that I've had to work on and like being like in control of my physical body has transformed my mind like so much. It's transformative. I still haven't gotten all the way there. Yeah. Like a full grip on it. Probably like maybe never will, you know, other than Arnold Schwarzenegger or something like that. But even him, I don't know if that's, yeah.

Well, those, it's like those people figure, it's achievable for everyone. Yeah. But it's a plain of understanding when you understand your body and like when you have that much connectivity through your body that you can shape it through action over time. Like when I look at it, because intuition's a funny thing. Everybody has their own version of some kind of intuitive, I think, ability. And we, where most of us are not taught to look for that. Like, what's your intuition on that?

Some people, like your gut. Yeah. Some people just have this talent of being so connected in their body that they, it's not a challenge to think, oh, I could put on this much muscle. I could, I can. Yeah, I've never thought about it like that. Right. Like, they have this connectivity. Yeah.

Because we're in our body. Yeah. Your muscles and your body are yours. Like, I know it sounds whatever, but think about this. No, no, I've never thought about it like that because I've always looked at it through the lens of like getting myself to look like, you know, whatever. I want it to look like. Right, but it's actually your avatar. Yeah. Like you're in it. Yeah. And your consciousness is in it. And I think about it because I've never, I'm still working on it. I consciously kind of like think about that. Like how in my body am I today? Because a lot of times I'm in

my head all day long. For sure. And I'm just thinking. And I'm not fully aware of how I'm taking care of the machine. Yeah. And therefore, because also my emotional, and we all have some kind of addiction of some kind. Yeah. You know, and little things, little habits. And like my stuff is either, like, I'm in my head all day long, figuring out problems up here and dreaming up things up here that I didn't take care of what I ate today, any movement. Number one way to cure anxiety, depression, the first step you can take is physical. You can go out and actually move your body and it'll give you some relief. And over time, if you do it more, it'll give you more relief.

Yeah. And like, that's proven, right? Yeah. When you're in here, that's not your first thought is, oh, you know what? I'm going to go for an hour walk. No. And I mean, I feel like it's also a little counterintuitive as well because if you're tired in the morning, like I generally try and, you know, be active, workout, whatever in the morning. It's like the best. But I'm tired in the morning. I'm not a morning person at all. You know?

And it's, I had to train myself that like if I work out, because I think, oh, it's, I'm exerting energy. So I'm going to be more tired when I need to not be. But it's like a weird reverse thing where it actually energizes me once your body's used to it after you start out for a couple weeks. It's like, now when I don't do it, when I don't do it, I feel like shit. it, you know. Yeah. But it's a real relationship. So if you don't have a relationship with it, that's why certainly people listening have all different kinds of things they're trying to figure out.

Some people it might be physical, might be your health. Some people it might be a career in music like you and they're listening to you and they're like trying to learn how did you do it. Some people, it's just their life in general, their finances or their job. Some people, it's mental health. A lot of people, it's mental health. I think most people are trying to to figure out how to be happier yeah right and how to be more themselves yeah and if you break it down if you if you if you if you zoom out and you go what's my relationship to all of this and you actually give yourself a a chance to go oh i have to build a relationship with each area of my life and i've got to design the house i want to live in yeah and so i've got it doesn't work the same

for everyone that's what i had to learn just the way i work in music i had to learn with exercising because I'm still kind of getting it. Yeah. I have to do it the way I do it. Dude, that's, I feel like, yeah, for sure. But like, even the fact that we're having this conversation just tells me that like, it's not a conversation that's had a lot. Like, for somebody to say like, dude, you doing yoga

and you doing like power lifting like is good for it to be different. And like this is actually better for, you know, like, or whatever, whatever it is, whatever the gate, is into being more fit. And I'm not like I'm some physically fit person, but I just, I'm just saying in the last year. You're more fit than I am. I don't know.

Yeah, you look pretty fit. Not judging, but I like fit. No, I don't, I'm just, yeah. I definitely could tell you workout. I was like, he works out. You're embarrassing me now, so, uh, I don't even know where I was going with this. You better work out. You're the lead singer.

You gotta work out. I mean, yeah. You're one to talk, man. So, you know, we're on the same wavelength with that. But no, what I was saying is, like, I don't know why it's not a, why is it like the opposite is kind of glamorized in music. I think is what I was saying. I think it's something like it's embarrassing.

Yeah. To admit if we don't like something about ourselves. I am less embarrassed because I feel like I'm being a dad cured me of all. embarrassment. I think it opened me up because I'm no longer aware. I don't, I'll share. My kids make me feel like the lamest person on the planet because they're just not into no, no teenagers into like their parent and we're cool. We're friends. But like if I try to tell them to listen to something, they will not listen to it. So I don't try and I hope they discover things that I like. That's crazy. But like we have a good relationship, but also they don't want to hear from me. You should be

getting more sleep. Right. And I try to tell them sometimes, but at the end of the day, like, if you're tired, you probably didn't get enough sleep last night. Yeah. I think it humbles you of having a family and also being married. I mean, I've been married for, probably mentioned this on every single episode, but it'll be like 13 years or something in December.

It's awesome. Congrats. Thanks. It's just like humbling, though. Because it's work. And like also you have someone that'll sit, that'll stick with you through all the peaks and values of being a human being and being in like entertainment especially because it's a weird yeah.

It's a weird job. It's a weird industry. Well, because you can be, you know, cool guy to people when you're, you know, playing a show for a couple hours doing press, but when you have to be around somebody, you know, constantly for years. You can't be cool guy. No, and you can be scared, you can be stressed, you can be nervous, you can hit a low point where shit is slow or no one, what you're trying to work on isn't working. Yeah.

Or first five years of this company, nobody really fucked with us. They liked us. Yeah. But they couldn't understand it fully. It's why I have so much love for like some of the bands we work with like Chase Atlantic, Water Parks, Bad Omen, people we've been with for five, six, seven, eight years. they grew with us. Yeah. So the people who believe in you really, they fill you up with all the that keep you going,

you know? And we have to all do that for each other. Yeah. But your partner has to see you through all of it. And also being in entertainment, it's easier for guys, but still, you're aging, you're older than you used to be or whatever. Totally. Facts.

Yeah. You gain some weight. You lose some weight. Whatever it is. you wear the wrong thing at the wrong day or whatever any detail someone could say about anyone else think of the 20 things you could criticize about the way someone looks or what they said or yeah you said a dumb thing you didn't mean to or they catch you with the long nose hair or something right yeah pull up some dumb shit you said yeah they're all the factors of what people could

scour the the earth and look for and then bring up and and and make you feel bad um you have a when you find the right partner it's someone who like doesn't care they accept you and and and i think that humbles you yeah to trying to present like any kind of vision like the instagram version of yourself i get it right we are going to put the best picture that i can on instagram yeah i'm never going to not do that yeah i'm definitely going to show you the angles yeah yeah 100% right i'm telling ryan to shoot me from up here like right right The cameras, I always want them about a foot higher. Yeah.

Like, shoot down. Smart. Don't shoot up, right? No, that's, whatever. And, but that's just like life. And I just got to a place because of my family. I think my wife, my brother, his wife. Over the years, we built like an imperfect, but perfect for us foundation of like not needing

to present that perfect angle. Yeah. And working through stuff together. and over the years building like this real trust. Yeah. Because we're all human and we do dumb shit sometimes. A lot for me. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And like I'm just not trying to, I'm not trying to necessarily hide it. I think it's like, I mean, it sounds like it's just like you guys unconditionally choose each other. Yeah. You know? Like that's like, that's a conscious choice that, you know. But it's not cool to talk about things that are just.

kind of vulnerable and embarrassing sometimes. Yeah, but it's like you don't see like men, I'm sure there's some exist, but you don't see many like rock stars who are posting about being in the gym or who were jacked and stuff or even not about being jacked, but like that side of life isn't glamorized the way that like drugs, sex and alcohol is, which I always found so interesting because that inevitably has a burnout point at some, you know, at some point or not even, whatever with those things, but like physical and mental well-being, you know, which I think is a cool thing about these conversations that you're having with people

because it's promoting and at least opening the discussion to those sides of things. Yeah, I think the drugs and alcohol and sex and stuff, I think is a, I don't know how, I don't judge it. Yeah. Because I just feel like it's all medication somehow. Sure. And so, but also it might not be. Some people don't know it's not.

I just like, that's how I roll. I think there is a burnout like you said. I think I always wonder like how old, what age do you stop if it doesn't kill you, right? Because I've also just seen that. Yeah. The sad part of being, of getting, the sad part of getting older is you see people go out in ways that they could have prevented. And like it gets to be the older you get, you kind of like. you see these preventable things.

Yeah. And you just go, man, that's sad. So I don't, I don't really buy the glorification of it. I always kind of know that's just, I want to be able to do it openly so that I don't have to feel as bad about it.

Or it feels like I can, you know, there's something in addiction that we want people to kind of buy into that we should be doing this. And I don't think everyone's addicts that's doing it. But I think there's, but then people have phases too, where they're just like, I just wanted to rip it up and see what that felt like. Yeah.

Sure, yeah. I mean, I'm not saying it from a judgmental standpoint either. I don't think so. I feel like there's definitely an optimal way that you could live your life, you know, for your own well-being and happiness. And I don't know that that's like as sexy to talk about or like, you know, amongst musicians especially. Because like if you're an athlete,

obviously you know what I mean you're that's part of your thing but why isn't like taking care of our bodies and minds as sexy in the music world you know you know Noah from bad omens he's really healthy yeah there and there definitely are a lot of people who are he's like dedicated to it for his own like mental and his own like work ethic yeah like it's a part of his program is he he trains goes to the gym does like jujitsu sick has a like a regiment that he's for himself like it's i don't know if it's as much about how he looks but more for his like mind and he's like he's very like serious in the sense of like i think it's what keeps him sane and organized yeah um i could be wrong that's how it is for me too it's it's all about my mental because i think there's like a

thing with a tortured artist right like you think that that's what you need to be and it's like man you can be healthy and make some of the best shit that you've made you know but there's for some reason there's like this sort of narrative that's like the tortured artist you know i don't know that i've just seen maybe maybe it's just something that i've experienced but when i kind of stopped thinking that way i feel like i've been a lot more happy and healthy and and also falling in love with like making music again, you know. Self love. Yeah.

The best love. I actually think it's just perpetuated by like stories because I think the story of the tragic is more interesting. Yeah. And somehow gratifying to our like, I think we kind of idolize artists and we put them on a pedestal and then we constantly look for a way to pull them down or prove it's a weird like paradox that happens it's like we idolize them but at the same time we we want to see them fall so that we can feel better or whatever that is humanize them or something humanize them so i think the tragic stories the drugs and all the stuff on one hand you have people worshipping that if only i

could get out of my and i actually think it's like a collective a collective a collective self-esteem issue where everyone's almost like, if only I could live that life, like that idol, doing drugs and partying and having sex with whoever he wants or they want. And that just sounds like that's the fantasy. And I think it's like this fantasy we're sold, some to escape their life and some look at it and they want to just think their life is better because it is healthier. the healthy story is kind of boring. Right.

Kind of boring. Which sucks. Yeah, but I get it. Yeah. If you, that's the thing is I don't have a really good story to sell about my life. It's kind of boring in the sense of like my real life. The stuff I work on is not boring at all. Yeah.

So that's exciting. But like I go home and I have dinner with my wife and kids and it's kind of like you don't want to hear about that. Like generally people I think don't want to hear like that. I think it's kind of boring, especially about an artist. They want to hear about the adventure. Yeah. That's what they want.

I know. I guess I just wish there was a way to have the adventure while still, like, promoting, like, healthy relationships and physical well-being, you know? There probably is somehow. I find myself because it's such a comparison career or, like, you're always, like, looking for that next thing, whatever it is. Yeah. And I've definitely found myself more so in the last two years than ever.

And I'm sure that just COVID and not being able to play shows and stuff plays a part in that. But trying to be very grateful for like what I have, you know, in the people that care about nightly and other aspects of my life as well. But it's so easy to be like, okay, this tour, we sold out this venue. we need to go up to this next one or this record did this so this next one we need to beat that or just like you're saying we have 1,000 now it's time for 2,000 it's like they're not numbers you know they're people yeah and they're people who are giving their time money and energy like to something that you're making um so i've definitely been because i you know you're on the business side of things as well now.

Yep. I don't know what your role in the business side of things was, you know, when it was just the band, I would assume it was probably a lot. But my brother was really, Benj was really the like operator. He really has a mind for operations. He really understands like how to operate things and put together teams. And his brain organizes really well around like that kind of information. Yeah.

I tend to be. a little less linear and I move all across the space. More like just hyper creative kind of. Together we like, yeah, we kind of balance each other out. Yeah. Because he's super creative too.

Like he can sit, but that's the thing is he can sit down and write a whole song, record it and give me a demo of him singing this like beautiful acoustic song. And I'm like, that's, we should just put that out. Because there's something really like soulful about his version of it. Yeah.

Like all of our songs generally started with him on an acoustic. acoustic guitar kind of like Noel Gallagher style yeah just sits down writes a song on acoustic guitar finishes it yeah lyrics there's a course I'll do first chorus done yeah hand them the idea and I'm like here's an idea and I never finish an idea I just like I got to move fast I can I'll get so bored after a half hour if I don't get an idea out I'm done I'm out 45 minutes and now is my taller I can't tolerate longer than that yeah something doesn't start to happen yeah I've ADD so bad But there's a balance there.

It's weird. A lot of our big songs started with him. And then I took it and like changed the chorus, made it this or that. And then we brought it to the band and we all started playing it. And then it became the song. But the original version was like some really cool little acoustic thing he did. Yeah, that's sick. But I think there's like obviously huge value in both.

Yeah. But I will say for myself, I've definitely tried to train myself more to be in the space of, like, what you're talking about, where it's gut, gut instinct, initial inspiration. And, like, and then also just taking breaks. When you hit a wall, like, take a walk, whatever. Yeah. Go get food. Because, like, if you're just sitting there staring at a wall, like, you know, I feel like you get stalled. You'd almost be more productive trying in half hour hour spurts.

And it's like go top of your head, chase that flame. So I think, but you definitely need the people as well who are like your brother, who are just like pounded out, start to finish, no matter how long it takes. But for me, I definitely try and chase that inspiration. And if it's not there, don't like force it right away. That's why I always say if I work in the studio with someone, And it's always like a, the note is, yeah, let's do it. Monday, it'll be one to three hours long.

And they're like, what? Yeah. That freaks people out. Because I think most people are like, it's like 11 to 5 or, you know, 5 to 2 a.m. And I'm like, no, it will know in an hour if we need to keep going. Yeah. And if we get to something in an hour that we want to keep going on, we're excited. And we may go three hours, four hours.

Could be five hours. Yeah. Like they won't be more than three hours because I just know. I don't know. I just know how to get how I get the things. And I and I and I just had to somewhere along the line trust like my process. And if someone else has a different process, we'll either figure out how to do it if we can. And if we can't, we can't. Like some people, it's too far away. We're too far apart in how we work. But like I'm cool with that too. Yeah. Not the end of the world. If, if, our, if we can't find our process that works for both of us. Yeah. And there's,

It's not like I won't compromise, because you'll get into a situation where you're like, oh, that opportunity just seems too exciting. I'll stay for five hours if that person wants to. So there's exceptions. But in general, I know, like, if I don't get to a good idea within an hour, it's not happening. Were you always like that or was that something you kind of discovered? I was always like that, but I didn't have the license to leave. So everyone would be like, why do you always sleep in the studio?

I used to sleep all the time. And it was like some, it was like some defense mechanism. So I would go in and if it wasn't getting to it, I would just get tired. And I would. That's the most incredible thing I've ever heard. I can't imagine just like, you're working with somebody and then they're just passed out. I'm just asleep. And it was always with the band.

So they knew me. And Benj would get so mad because he'd be like, why do you always sleep when we go in the studio? And I'd be like, I don't know, man. Like I didn't understand it. I had to work it out in therapy though. really because I seriously had to talk to my therapist about it so I was like I just sleep I get tired and he's like well what do you explain to me on those days what what's happening and I'm like I don't know I'm just in the studio like trying to make a song and he's like well walk me through the

the songs that happened how did those happen I was like they happen in five minutes I just came up with it and then we did it yeah and then it happened and like all our good songs were written in 20 minutes 30 minutes. I know everybody says that. I mean, it's, yeah. It's like bang, bang, bang. And then I'm completely encapsulated so I can sing for three hours if I'm excited about a song. Yeah. Like it's not about the time of work because I work long days now, but I work on 20 different things. And it really is what keeps me like excited. But man, like go in the studio, we would try for 30 minutes, 45 minutes, nothing's coming. And then they're like trying to change. full direction and new riffs and before you know it, I'm over on the couch sleeping.

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New Potion Nine of Sebastian Professional, the secret professional, of who not seein' tendences, so what did your therapist say about it he's like you have extreme ADD you get exhausted by boredom wow and when you can't focus on something that's we're like if you're not chasing the thing around then you're just like trying to and it's exhausting and it's like something like that he has a more articulate way of putting it or whatever like likely it's it's some real extreme Meme, ADHD, ADD, whatever. Interest is not a problem.

A 10-hour day is no problem for me if I'm working on stuff that I care about and like. Yeah. That challenge. I don't know, whatever it is. Who knows the factors of what make it interesting or challenging or whatever? But man, when that would happen and everyone hated me for years, they'd be like, you sleep. And all you do is sleep. Well, did they take it personally?

like you're like you were uninterested in what they were making after a while they stopped because i think i would always say it's not personal i don't know like yeah i don't know why and they're like you have like some kind of disorder and i'm like i don't know i don't think so i don't fall asleep when i do other things yeah that's crazy but it it was a real relief to figure out like no no no like what if we work the way we work yeah and what if we could influence that a little bit and we could push it a little bit and expand on what's possible, expand how we work. Because it certainly has changed over time. I can manage that boredom. I don't fall asleep now when I'm bored. But I think it was like this unconscious, it was a, I didn't understand that I had any choice anyways. And like,

what if, like, what if there's relief just in knowing this is how I work? And even if I'm not going to, even if I'm going to work how you work today, I understand that that's not how I work. And I can certainly compromise and stay in it with you, but I'm relieved just because I know this is not how I work and I'm doing it and I'm making a compromise for this person. Instead of trying to force myself mentally to believe this is how I'm supposed to work, but how I work is wrong. Yeah. And going in for an hour is wrong. Right. And what if there is no right or wrong? Yeah. And what if like I work a certain way? And as soon as I establish how I work, I'm relieved from even the weight of the confused. when someone pulls me into how they work and I'm not conscious of what I'm doing.

Yeah, I think it's probably the same with like learning and stuff too. Exactly. Like with kids, you know, because there's obviously, I don't even know the name of them. I didn't go to it or any, but I just know because there's one kind of by where I live, it's like a Montessori school, is that what it's called? There's definitely Montessori schools. I don't know what they do there. I don't know.

Montessori. But I've heard, I mean, I've certainly know of Montessori schools only because my kids they're teenagers now but like going through trying to pick schools they're like everyone else going this is a Montessori school you're like what is that mean yeah but I think I don't know what they do there I don't even know why I just thought of that because it's by where I live but I think there are some places that think like you don't have to learn this specific way because there's going to be some kids who have ADHD there's going to be some who are like more you know audio based learners some who are more like visual and it's like instead of

of treating them all the same, you know, maybe like playing to some strengths and allowing that like difference to be okay. I think that's the modern approach to education. And I think like I was, I had a bunch of learning disability type things or what felt like a learning disability when you're young, you learn, you actually, when you get older, you realize like it isn't actually. It's just a difference. And in fact, you're really good at learning certain things. And you can remember, like, I can work on 50 things a week and other people will literally kind of go they're a little overwhelmed if I tell them. It's not for me overwhelming at all. Yeah. I always have 50 things on my brain. Yeah. It's very like easy, normal for me and actually keeps me calm. Yeah. And but if I tell someone,

like me and my wife don't talk about work. Right. Because she gets a little overwhelmed with if I start spouting stuff off. If I go into it and I start jumping around from the things and how they're related and why this matters to that and why that matters to that and all the, because I believe that everything we do, how we do one thing, we do all things, and everything we do affects everything else we do and that the resources all blend together and they all, one business helps the other business and they all rise together, but they all grow at different speeds, but doesn't mean that this little thing over here that you think is important that no one else cares about yet isn't just as important as the big thing that everyone cares about.

And when you learn how to differentiate what you care about from what other people care about and you no longer need other people to care about this little thing, it can be free to be organic and real and it can grow into a real brand. And that's how real brands are started. The DNA of that is just as important as the thing that started to scale that everyone cares about. So you could if I showed you the things I was working on and you could say, well, that's the most important one. And I might say, well, that's not the most important one, but it's important.

It's just as important, but that's the most important one, because that's where all of the authenticity is coming from in the feeling behind everything we're doing. Right now, to me, it's that fire that's burning. And I have to look after all of them. If I go into it, my brother understands, and we work really well together in that way, because he can organize around things and that he's really the guy who can then put together a plan of action and keep me focused on like the actionable things that I need to do yeah in the right order is that helpful for you big time yeah because I can't come up with the list do you find like when you get that list say and it's it's it's is it specific pretty specific tasks and stuff like if you if you're

having to focus your brain instead of on 30 things and you're like today I have to get this done is that hard for you to focus or no because you're like you're comfortable being like I can finish this it's not it's not hard because it's put into a system we built a system and a process so there's actually like physically a schedule that it gets plugged into but i mean i'm just saying your own mental focus is that hard for you when even though it's in a system and you're like i know i have to spend two hours on this thing. I relate to a lot of what you're saying about thinking about 30 things at once. I think a lot of artists too.

And our like my cousin in the band, Joe, he, he's very like one thing at a time, give me one task. Yeah. And he's very good at that task always, you know? But if I start talking to him about stuff, I feel like there's a certain point where like his eyes just glaze over. And he's like still thinking about the first thing that I told him. And he's like, what are we going to do about that, right?

But if I know, you know, I need to hear some things that we have to get done. We have to finish the mix on this song. We need to finalize merch designs for this. We also need to, like, come up with, you know. Hey, what about the video? You know with the video? We should do that. Right, exactly.

And there's a guy, you know, he's really good. He did that other thing. Yeah, and where's the location? Oh, well, I saw a picture that I saved on Instagram. And it's like, well, okay. And, yeah, exactly. Like, I start doing that. And I feel comfortable in that.

but then when I get the list whether it's like you know, Nikki or whoever giving me a list sometimes if I'm like all right this three hour block is to finish this one thing

I don't know if I could do that that's what I'm saying that's hard for me because it's like I like I like doing all the things at once and I feel like I'm kind of slowly chipping away at each of them until like they're all randomly falling out

complete but there's sometimes that there's just hard deadlines of like this merch is due or this master is due. I think that's where for me I'm lucky because over the years, you know, Benj has always said we're process driven. So he really believes in that. He has a process.

And so he's really good at taking all this information I just gave him. And in his mind, as I give it to him, he's organizing it. I can see it. And he goes, okay, we're going to have a breakout on that. I'm going to put that here. and I'm going to put that there, that there, and then he'll hand back to me two tasks. And we have a team of people that are doing,

that are really functionally good at what they do. So Joey, who runs MDDN, who's the president of MDDN, has built this big music company. He's really good at what he does. Yeah. And he knows how to, he's again, he's a manager, like a career manager,

builds big touring businesses and is good at what he does. He appreciates my strengths, which is my strengths tend to just be talking. You know, like I was going to go sleeping. Talk to anyone and go sleep. And I don't know which order, you know, but because I don't sleep at night. I mean, I could barely get six hours of sleep. Oh, yes. But I could sleep in the middle of the day if you give me the right job.

and um but joey's really good as well at organizing around artists because he's been working with them for so long yeah but he also understands the value of my perspective when it's time and when he's like hey i need you on thursday we're talking to chase atlantic i want you to be there because we're talking about this and i want to be there so that's what i want to talk about i don't want to talk about tour routing. But I want to look at the venues they're in because I remember what it felt like to be at certain venues and I'll try to flag. I care about things like that.

It's weird. I just want to see what venues they're playing and I want to make sure like I remember hating certain venues and I'll just flag it and go, hey, are we sure we want to be in that room? Right. And it's either, yeah, we like it. And I'm like, okay. I didn't particularly.

Maybe they changed something about it. Or they're like, we've never been there. And I'm like, well, I didn't like it last time, but see what you think. and usually there's a middle where some of that is valuable and some of it is like just my perspective or there's like the album whatever it is for it's different for every artist it sounds like you're just and I don't know if this is something

you've always been good at or if it's more of like something that's developed but it sounds like you're just good at delegating stuff to people and like trusting them to do it as opposed to like having to do it all yourself which I feel like is maybe where I struggle and I'm trying to like get better at that for sure but it sounds like you're you're kind of saying like Joey runs this and he's just really good at it yeah yeah I believe in him he's my

manager yeah when I have to go do something for music there's no one else I want yeah to make that deal or to help me figure out how we're going to do it and Benj is kind of the same like he's he's like him and Joey are like counterparts because I think um he had the artist's experience but But he also, he can really design a deal. He understands the beginning, the middle, and the end. And he can look at a deal and almost live the whole deal out. And then go back to it. It's wild.

And help make changes in it. And usually, I mean, he's always right. And he has a perspective of like, which I love this about him, where I was more like, I want this. Let's do it. And he's more like, slow down. The person on the other side of the table, what do you want to get out of this? Like in a dream scenario, what's success look like to you? And really like digest that, feel it and want it for them as well.

And then come back to the deal and decide should we go, should we even get it into a negotiation? Yeah. If we can't achieve some version on a spectrum of success, like little to high success. and usually is writing deals that all have some version of a win at the end. And I think that's part of dealmaking that's important that people forget because a lot of times they're caught up on factors that feel most important like money. So like it's a lot of money. Yeah.

Okay, I get that, but like take that out of it. Like what are they hoping to get out of this? Right. Can you ever give any of that? And what do you really want? Take the money away in success. do you want to give up this this this and that and like finding that place where like okay we there is a version of this where we all win on like a spectrum of winning we can be happy no matter

how it goes yeah because if you take the money aspect out of it would you be happy right or like because no matter what the amount is it's going to last for a time period it's not most likely I mean, there are some probably deals that artists are getting that will change their life forever. But I would imagine those aren't too often, you know. Those are, yeah, those are these. Yeah, some, but like. So it's like that's a good way to look at it is like taking that out. Is this going to make you happy?

Is this what you want for your thing? And I think that's a really like smart way to look at it. And I will say when back to when we chat it and I told, I told Joe, you know, that, that, um, was doing the podcast. He was like, man, I remember like so clearly that they, and I remember this as well. You guys were so everybody else, because at that time, you know, how it is when something starts to happen, whether it's internet or elsewhere, everybody comes, like at once, you know? Those are cool moments, though.

They all, yeah. They could be confusing, but there. I think it was exciting, but also. stressful because I just I had nothing you know before before this and when all of a sudden people are like dangling things in front of you and you're getting to meet you know people like you guys and you're just like holy shit man this is crazy it feels like at least I felt like there was a lot of pressure to make the right decision you know because they're going to let someone down yeah well like yeah I mean or that you could make a wrong decision my well like my you know my boys like in the band or

just like that this was like our you know time or whatever you know i don't know for whatever reason i thought of that way but the thing i remember which i really appreciate is you guys were so different from everybody else and what you were saying like you were almost like it wasn't even like business chat you were just like yo here's what's going to happen like just don't forget to like care about what you want to do and you don't have to sign shit like all like all this advice that was just I don't know. It was obviously coming from a very season, like, perspective, but it was so real, you know, when I feel like there's a lot of people who say things to kind of sell you on themselves.

Totally. It was like, you were kind of like, I don't give a shit if we ever work together, but just know that, like, this is my experience. And, like, it was so encouraging. So, like, that really, like, stuck with us. So, and I appreciate it. So it feels like cool and full circle to be here. And I didn't want to like not say that because it definitely impacted us.

Well, I appreciate that. That makes me feel really good. Because that is actually what we believe. Yeah. I think there's a lot of, it's a lot of unnecessary and unimportant pressure. Yeah. It's like unnecessary on decisions that are more about fit. and more about vision because you have to design a life you want to live in.

Yeah. So it's like when you go to buy a house, of course the realtor is going to try to sell you if they're a typical realtor. Right. But then I've seen the really good realtors who I've become friends with over the years because I've bought a lot of houses and property and stuff. And it's something that I like really like enjoy is like a special place, however big or small, if it's a condo or if it's a fucking whatever.

I find the really good people, they actually don't, the end result for them also isn't the transaction. Because they almost have had so many transactions. It's this organic process that they trust will happen if it's right. And they're more excited about the specialness with you. And you end up building relationships with people that are good at what they do. But that almost like you're just intrigued by how good they are. it's like this not typical. Yeah.

And you end up doing something together, whether I bought a house from the guy or I just was friends of them and I sent and I sent all my friends to him because I knew he was going to give them like an honest experience. Yeah. And like I think that's more important. Like it goes way further than what like the short term thing you could gain for your ego or whatever, even for money or whatever, I think there's something like that.

Yeah, it's almost like considering a win, like, in a different way where it's like, if you're trying to sign somebody, then your definition of a win is signing them, then that doesn't always have their win in mind if there's a better partner for them. And I feel like you guys, again, in that conversation it wasn't like your win was like just want to be supportive and like helpful

to you guys like in any way possible it wasn't like some of the other you know that's cool bulldogs out there who are just like it's almost like a notch on the old belt you know when they get to sign something that's hot right now and it's like no the win is actually like you finding your best home and being your best version of yourself as an artist and like totally i never thought about that I think that's a, yeah. I actually think that's honestly how we feel. Because also, like, I'm terrified of signing people because I know what the work. I know what the work is going to be.

It's not just making records of putting them out. It's building a life. Yeah. And then I get so invested emotionally. Yeah. And so hard not to. I don't know how people don't. Because I want people to be happy and healthy.

And you're on the ride with them and sometimes it takes longer. and sometimes it go, you know, so it's, it's an emotional journey. And so I'm always down to do their work, but it's got to be right. They have to believe in me as much as I believe in them. Yeah. And there are bands I get excited about, but I always temper my excitement because I need to find out what they have, what this, the stuff that they're made of. It's got to be the right time, the right place.

Everything's got to be right. Sure. And you can't work with everybody. You can't sign everybody. So that's also like a kind of a false idea that we're going to go out and sign everybody. You learn that too over the years. But then I look at like things like bad omens, Chase Atlantic, Idris, Poppy, Waterpark. So look at these bands and we've been together for years.

So there's like a life, you build a life together. Yeah. And it's got to be a life that you want to live in. And it's got to be people like on every side. you have to want to be able to sit at a table together and not just talk about just music or just their success. I think that there's this idea that in the music business, people are selling dreams.

So I think there's this like, hey, sign with me, kid, and then we're going to hit the switch and your whole life's going to change. That's not how it works. You build your life one day at a time, and it's momentum you build. through decisions you make.

Yeah. And you live in your life. I don't live in your life. So you are the end, at the end of the day, you have to make the decision, not me. I can tell you what I think. But only you are going to know at the end of the day, if you should do this or not.

And that's going to be how you feel. And I'm just going to gut check if you're afraid. If fear's keeping you from doing something, that's the wrong thing. But if artistic choice is keeping you, that's the right thing. So let's talk about it. And maybe it's not as bad as you think,

or maybe it is. But like, you're building the life that you're living in how am i going to know exactly what's right i'm only going to be able to like try and give you my perspective yeah um and zoom out probably further than you can because you're in it yeah makes sense i didn't necessarily have that besides my brother and my band and so i learned after the fact like i probably should have zoomed out a little bit more on that decision zoomed in a little bit more on that one like with with your band or with bands that you work with With my band.

Yeah. And that's where I think that's what I bring to conversations when we're all, when the whole team's sitting around because in the management company, there's managers, there's associates, there's assistants, they all have a say in the conversation in some way. And so everybody's opinion kind of matters. And so you may see a younger, less experienced person get more excited about something they know less about that seems exciting.

And you may have an older opinion, more experience. kind of more afraid because they've gone through the experiences of we need to watch out for that that that that that we try to like take both bring it to the middle and try to find the balance of like and then and then the artist is sitting there trying to decide something right and you want to just see how they feel yeah and also we don't have to make any decision until we have to and so also give yourself time don't let anyone pressure you into like giving you a clock on an artistic decision and if you missed an opportunity because you didn't it didn't feel right but you can't get paralyzed with the the analysis paralysis

right dude for sure so you got you got to kind of like sit at the table and try to get to some forward motion and um i think art always comes first if we agree this is artistically okay we can move on now let's talk about the details of the deal okay let's get through those and like usually you can get to a clear yes or no yeah like specifically with when it comes to working with artists i think so yeah and and or is it even like including like releases and things like that or like a andring like are you involved in any of the all of that but i also just don't i think things are over a and ard i think i think a lot of times i like really want to know what the artist's first thought was Yeah.

I think we always get talked out of our first thought, and I think our first thought usually is our best thought. Yeah. And then we start overthinking. I do it too, artistically. So I think forward motion is the most important thing for all things. So we got to move forward. We have to keep moving forward.

And I think there is something, too, that a lot of good artists that I respect or have had conversations with is there's definitely something interesting about timing. Like, sometimes you just feel something and you can't tell why. You got to trust it, though. But it's like, it's the time. And you could look back and be like, I don't know why that decision at that time, but that sparked this. And like, that's something that I think is killed in over-analyzing, over A&Ring is like, you're constantly, if you're constantly second-guessing that initial gut thing, then eventually just gets like,

quieter and quieter, you know, as opposed to paying attention to it. And maybe it's not always right, but at least acknowledge that it's there. And so that way when it happens, you can recognize it. Because I think there is something special in people who have the drive to be artists, especially great ones, where it's like the timing, something that's almost bigger than yourself, you know? Yeah, those instincts on that. And then collaborating with people and with a team is important. And usually when you get the right, the right collaborators around you and you guys build that rapport and that trust, you do really good shit. You do really good work together. And I think that's like the great teams over time and the music business and people that you could, you could, if you got to look behind the curtain and analyze how they have their success, you likely find a smallish group of people that just did really good work together and they collaborated together.

and that's managers, that's some labels sometimes, and great artists. I mean, without the great artists, none of it happens. What's next for Knightley? So, yeah, we just released a brand new album, came out like two weeks ago. We're really proud of it. Great band. Thank you, man. Great songs.

Thank you. I really am looking forward to see where you guys go on this record. You guys are a great band. Thank you. Really, those songs are our first class. Thank you, man. It means a lot, you know. coming from anybody, but especially coming from you.

Thanks, too. And thanks. You know, everything that you guys stood for, I feel like, has been cool to also watch y'all grow. And the things that you've said have stuck with us until now. So I feel really honored to be here. So thank you. That's nice to you to say. Honestly, I think, you know, you take what you want.

You hold on to things and ideas as symbols and things that. that I think help, but I do think that like you have to have it in you to have it. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so I think there's only something that people who have quality to them can understand and agree with. Otherwise, it would really be like someone speaking a different language because there's definitely like we find things we relate to and I think that we understand.

But likely it's because we agree with. We actually have that quality in us. And we just maybe haven't worked out how we say it or even like being able to label it but feel it. And I think that like you guys, I think you only grasped it because you guys, well, you're proving it out. I mean, you guys have worked really hard. But you're not getting smaller. You're growing. It's happening.

It's working. You just have to keep doing it. Yeah. And over time. That's effort over time is really. results, right? Yeah. All right, dude. Thanks. Dude, thank you. Sick. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of artist friendly. If you really liked it, you can follow, like, subscribe to the show, anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support, and we'll see you

next time.