Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Joss Stone

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Joss Stone. Back in 2003, Stone broke out with her debut album, The Soul Sessions, when she was 16 years old, which largely reinterpreted ’60s and ’70s songs. Since then, she’s released eight other albums, received two Brit Awards, and won a Grammy for her cover of Sly and the Family Stone’s “Family Affair” with John Legend and Van Hunt. In a conversation with Madden, Stone discusses coming up in the music industry as a teenager, her take on horror movies, and what creating a live album was like. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'm talking to Grammy Award-winning, Brit Award-winning, multi-platinum singer-songwriter, Josh Stone. Let's go. If we're not smoking on gas and smoking out piff, that's my kind. I don't want no bad times. I don't want to have bad.

It's funny, though. It is a real thing. Yeah. It's funny. Humans, they want that for some reason. Like the stress shit that happens in your brain and your body. It's like people that want to go on roller coasters. That's me.

I actually do like those. But I don't like horror movies. Why do people like horror movies? My wife loves horror movies and I can't stand it. Because she like watches them for like comfort. Yeah, yeah, for fun. Before bed too. Like before bed.

She's like, I'm going to go upstairs and watch a horror movie. Yeah, I'm going to go watch someone get like started a million times. It's really weird. Why? You know. That is interesting though. There's got to be a deeper, like some trauma or something that's, I don't know. Or maybe they haven't had the traumas that we've had.

Maybe. And that's why we can't watch it. I can't watch violence that much. I can't even do like Harry Potter or Game of Thrones. Really? No. Because scary. I don't like the guy.

I liked Game of Thrones. And they all stabbing each other and stuff. Yeah, that was. And like shoving pokers up each other's asses trying to kill each other like that. Yeah. That was the episode I. But it was like, it's like sci-fi. It's kind of like, you know it's not real.

And it's like this like Dungeons and Dragons almost. I do like the Dragons. I liked when the lady made friends with the dragon. To me, Game of Thrones was like Dungeons and Dragons done like really dramatic and really well. In my mind, like that's where I go. Growing up with like Magic the Gathering, Dungeons and Dragons. I didn't play, but I was like a nerd. And I liked all that stuff.

Pokemon, this, that. So Game of Thrones to me was like a very dramatic. beautiful Dungeons and Dragons. With blood everywhere. Yeah. With violence. It's a lot, man. It's a lot.

It's a lot. Okay, so Cody put on Deadpool the other night. That's funny. It was funny, right? So I was, I can watch this, right? And then the violence happened. It's so much. I was like, oh my God.

No, I need a pillow for that. Just a pillow or make a cup of tea in those moments. Do you really cover your eyes? Yeah, yeah. I can't see it. Yeah, I can't unsee it. If it's in there, it's in there.

Like I'm actually seeing it now while I'm talking to you. I don't want to see that. Yeah, you're re-seeing it. I'm re-seeing it. I don't want to re-see it. That's funny. Yeah. That's weird, isn't it?

Yeah. Don't put it in my head because I always will come back later. I don't want it. How long you've been married? A year. Oh, that's great. Almost. Is it good, you enjoying it?

It's really nice. It's really nice. First year, I always say, like, the first year I would say, like, the first year is all kinds of things. Yeah. It's like, really great. Have you been married for how long? I've been married for 14 years in December. Oh, wow.

Okay. Okay. So tell me, when did you get married in your relationship? Four years in. Okay. We had two kids. And then we were like, we should maybe get married. Literally the same for us.

We were like, we have these two kids. They look like us. You're like, oh. They have our last name. Or your last name? That's an interesting question. My daughter has her last name, which is hyphenated. Okay.

Richie Madden. Yeah. My son just has my last name. Why? I don't know. That's so interesting. Okay, so Cody said to me, he didn't care about the last name thing. He totally cared about it.

Yeah. He lied. He died. He's like, I don't care. I'll take your name. Okay, yeah. This is all just like in the flirting stages of us being together. That is just not the case.

So I was like, I don't mind. I'm very traditional. I'd love to take your name one day. I think that's like really. sweet. Yeah, it's really sweet. I just really think it's a lovely thing. I don't see the negativity in it. None. I think it's pretty nice. But then when I had Violet, so Violet's name is Violet Melissa Dulouse, and I was like, oh, but what if someone tries to take her from me? You know, like, what if I get pulled over and they don't think I'm her mom or something? And our names are different.

And I don't know. Like, it just like worried me. So then when we had Shaq, and I was like, I know we're going to get married one day. One day we're married. But right now, kind of how we felt. We don't share the same last name. So, oh, so when we had Shaq, I wanted to give him four names. And Cody was like, that's too many names. We gave them a lot of names still. Did you? Yeah. So we have Shackleton, Stoker, Deluz. That's my last name in the middle. Yeah. But not, it's not a hyphenated last name. But it's in the middle. But it's in there. Yeah, I like that. So I can be like, okay, it's there. That's smart. But now poor Shaq has last name, last name, last name. He has no first name anywhere in there. Wow.

I know. Yeah. So I wanted to call him Shackleton Theodore Stoker de Luz. Which is great. That's a strong name. I know. But no, Cody,

there's too many names, girl. You're getting crazy. I love it. I love the four-name thing. I do too. What did you give your kids? Let's see. Well, my daughter has five names.

Okay, go. Hit me. Harlow Winter, Kate, Richie Madden. Oh, wow. Yeah. Winter is the second name? Harlow Winter, Kate, Richie, Madden. Love it.

So hang on. She doesn't love it. Is Richie Madden, uh... Last name, hyphenated. That's one? Yeah. Okay, wow. So then she can pick.

She's got choices. She has lots of choices. Yeah. And she certainly does. Yeah. My son, Sparrow James Midnight Madden. Oh, oh my gosh. She's the good names.

It's very strong names. It's very strong, yeah. It's like, you better do something. Yeah, yeah. It's good. Or do nothing. Drink beer, chill out and just have a cool name. And just have a cool name.

At least you've got something. Yeah. Even if you do nothing. What is in a name? Oh my God. Naming children is so hard. It's so hard. It's so hard.

And then especially if you're like anyone who's in entertainment and that anyone knows, you're going to get just ripped apart for your name choices. Oh, it's so true. All of these people think they are giving their kids names. Yeah, giving them names at all. Yeah. Naming them. Yeah.

It's boring or it's too fabulous. Name them Bill. Yeah. John. Bill or nothing. Yeah. You know, you're like, Okay.

Oh my God. I had Violet in Tennessee and I had written down her name on the birth certificate. I'd had this name for ages and all the grandparents were like, that's not. Oh, that's not the name. Which is so annoying, right? So I wrote it down. I was like super high because they give you all these drugs in there when you've been cut open and stuff. Yeah, yeah.

So I was like, okay, I've got. And I thought it's going to have time in England. You can take your baby home for a month without naming them. Right. And it's like, cool. You just have to, within the month. otherwise you know you get a knock on the door yeah so i didn't have that time and cody was like just name her okay okay so i'm going to go with this name and all the nurses couldn't say it

it was so annoying so i had to change it so her name was for a couple hours it was nalima rose isn't that sweet you said it perfect yeah it's lovely and they were like huh malala shabla shabla No, I was like, oh my God. It's just going to happen for the rest of her life. Yeah. But yeah, it just got in my head. So then you went with Violet. Violet Rose?

Violet. No, it was supposed to be Violet Rose. She was called Baby Rose for a second. It was supposed to be that, but that didn't sit well with me. She was supposed to be Nilema Rose. And I was like, something's not sitting right. Yeah, now I can't use Rose. I can't use that because that was with Nilema.

So now what is it? So now this is where it gets like not a nice story. So my auntie, my auntie, Melissa. She got COVID and she died. Oh, that's terrible. The day after Violet was born. And I so wanted her to meet my little girl. Like she was such a fun, vibrant.

She was a teacher. She was just like this beautiful woman. And anyway, so that happened. And I called my mom and she told me and I was like, oh, that's why she was supposed to be a Violet and not Nalima because the name, the middle name, was supposed to be Melissa. And, you know.

That's really sweet. Nelima Melissa would have been too much. So I was like, oh, that's why I'm like struggling. And I just thought, okay, there you go. So now we have Melissa with us forever. And then, you know, Violet can ask questions about her name and she'll get. There's a deep meaning there that's really, really nice. Yeah.

You take someone with you like that. Yeah. Lovely thing. Timing is so hard to understand, but it's so. You've got to trust it. Yeah. It's so right. even though even if it's painful.

I know. You know? It's hard to believe, isn't it? It's hard to get there. Yeah. Then you're like, oh, that's why that happened. Okay. All right.

Yeah. But you know, it's back to what we were talking about with people's fixation and their interest. With watching these kind of horrific things on social media. Yeah. I think it's something like human beings making sense. of like the actual reality of life is that it's like pain and suffering. Yeah, but you know what? It's up to you to choose how you see it.

Absolutely. So it's the half full, half empty discussion, isn't it? It's like, can we want to see this? Yeah, you really do. You do. You really do. So I have had this thought in my mind for a long time, actually. when I was about 21, I think.

Which was what, like three years ago? No, I wish. Oh, please. No, I'm 37. So I was touring a lot. Tell me your skincare routine, please. You know, nothing really. Some lip balm every now and then.

So I had been touring a lot and traveling the world a lot. And I thought, my God, there's so much love everywhere. There's so much light. But of course I see that. I'm entertaining people. Yeah, you're making them happy. And literally like I am the party. So I'm seeing them at the party.

And they're projecting their love and their happiness at you. Because that's what your music does for them. Exactly. And that's why they're there. Yes. So it's sort of like this echo chamber of like good feeling. So you can be very wrong. Actually, the world could be in tatters.

And you're just having a nice time at each night. You know what I mean? So I got it in my mind that I wanted to, like test the theory, I think 95% of people are just good. They're just pure good love and joy. And there's the 5% of major assholes that they make huge riffle effects. Yeah. So I thought, I need to go and find out. So I did a world tour. And I went to every country in the world. And I just had a little look for myself. And I did the gig, which of course is the joy. It's always the joy. I did a collaboration, which was interesting and very difficult to sing in all those languages.

But the bit where it showed me the people, I went to visit a charity in every single country in the world. Wow. So I saw like... Every country? Every single one. That's insane. Yeah, it was quite a big job. But it was good.

That's amazing. It was a good job. It's good job. And I got to see all the gorgeous people doing gorgeous things. What was the through line for you? The through line? Yeah, like what was the thing you realized was the same? I think we have this idea that people, um,

that we don't agree with. This is a running theme in everybody's phone right now. People that we don't agree with are just really bad and they're so different to us. No, they're not. I agree. They're really not different to us. Yeah.

You know, people love, love, people fall in love. People get pain when love hurts them. That happens to everyone. People, they all want their kids to be okay. All of them. Like it's just human. Yeah. We are just human.

You know, I was talking to Cody, he was a Marine and he fought in Iraq. And we were... So he's quite a tough guy. He's a tough guy, yeah. He's a strong guy. But in this heart, he's soft and so sweet. And we were talking about the Taliban. Now, I made a comment once, which I can be sarcastic sometimes.

Yeah. And it got, I think they put it on bloody Fox News or something. I don't know. Right. And they were like making fun of me because they thought I was being serious. But I'm kind of am. I was saying they just need a hug, right? Right.

Okay. Obviously, I'm not going to go up. to a member of the Taliban and give them a hug because they will kill me. Right. And I got that feeling when I was in Afghanistan. These people, they definitely want to kill me. But they are just human. They are just a little kid who grew up to a big person.

Exactly. They all probably, I imagine, loved their mom. And if they've had kids, they would fight and die for their children. Absolutely. You know, so this goes for everyone. You know, so Cody was a soldier. He was fighting other soldiers. These are men.

And he was like, in that moment, you can't think, like that. No, you can't. If you do, you're dead. Yeah. But now he's like, I see that now and I do. This is just a man fighting for what he believes in, for what he's been taught to believe in. This whole life. It's not, they're not evil. There's no evil going on here. There's just indoctrination. And I will indoctrinate my children the way I want to. Absolutely. And you will indoctrinate yours the way you want to. Yeah, that's what you as a parent, you think, you have to believe as a parent you're doing the right thing by teaching your kids like the values you care about yeah you're trying your best to lead your kids into a life of happiness of success yeah

hopefully like being a productive member of society and a good person or whatever yeah but my idea of that might be different from well yeah exactly some countries it's dog eat dog yeah so it's like you know they might be under under duress and they might not have the lunch to be like, I want you to keep this road clean. So you married a real patriot. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, he's a real patriot. That's amazing.

Which is so funny because, I mean, I am. I suppose I am. Like, I'm one of those English people that, like, loves the royal family. Yeah. I love all that. Yeah, you're very English. Yeah, I think it's lovely. Yeah.

And I don't think it's a dangerous thing for someone to, like, put their flag outside the house. I think it's very sweet. Yeah, yeah. You know, I see, like, that's nice. Yeah. So Cody put one up outside. our house. I said, you better put the English one up right there with it. So we have two. That's sweet. I do think it's really nice. You live in Nashville? Yeah, just outside of Nashville.

There's loads of studios, great musicians. Yeah. And it's just like, that's great. It's such a nice place. And there's trees and there's deer. I drive home through the deer. Oh, it's very, yeah. Yeah. It's cool. I get a kick out of America. I think it's really, it's really fun. Yeah. It is funny. You guys are funny. Definitely, definitely funny. I love America. I'm from I'm from Maryland which is a very much that. It's a country place. Is it? And I grew up in a very like, it's a very kind of southern place. Yeah. So that's very nice though. Cody sounds great. Cody is great. He's lovely. So you guys have been married a year. We've been married a year. Yeah. Together for five. Four or five. Yes. Yeah. We're going to have our fifth anniversary soon.

That's great. It is really nice. I do think. Do you know what? The marriage thing always sort of maybe think, oh, I don't know if this is, I don't know if that's a good, I don't know if people should do that, you know. Yeah, I get it. I'd have moments of like being very traditional and then being like, hang on, this is, that's stressful. It's so not stress. It took out the stress. It's so great. Yeah, it's removed the stress. The right person does do that to your life. Yeah, yeah. And now I'm like, well, we're married so you can fight me, but you're, ha, sucker. You're with me forever. Yeah. You know, we got these two over here that look. like us. Yeah. Oh, it's kind of lovely. My kids don't look like me at all. Okay. Violet looks like Cody and Shaq looks like my dad. That's funny. Damn it. I've got to have a couple more. Yeah. But you know, two's a lot though. Two's a handful. How many have you got? You got two. Yeah. Two. Yeah. I have friends with three and four and I'm like, how do you do that? Two was, I felt like. It is a lot. Overwhelmed. Even though I was, I mean, now they're a teenager, so we're like kind of easy now.

Oh, because they just like do their own thing? They do their own thing. So what do you do with social media? Do you let them have a phone and stuff? Yeah. 15 and 16, you're not stopping that. Really? Yeah, no.

Really? I had about 14. It's over. No way. Yeah, you can control it until about 14. Damn. Yeah, then you're like. Then you'll be the big bad monster if you don't give them a phone.

Yeah, you're like living in a different time or something. They're like, you know, so. Oh, God. You guys got to trust them. Yeah. I don't trust anyone else, though. I don't either. That's the problem.

Well, you have to trust how, like, the tools you've given them, right? Yeah, and you just got to tell them. Like, guys got to remember, like, anyone can be anyone they want. So as long as you know when you're out, when you're in, you know, when you're surfing through the interwebs, that people are presenting what they want you to see. Yeah.

And not what they want you to know. Yeah. So don't be so gullible to think that that's the whole picture. So it doesn't matter. how great you think, you know, anyone is, they're only showing you what they want to present. It's like when I go out and market something, I'm marketing it. I'm not going to say it's fucking not great or that I'm fucking worried about how it's going to do. I'm going to say it's fucking great.

So I was just telling them, I'm like, look, choose what you want to look at and believe, but remember that it's all kind of entertainment. And these days, everybody's their own kind of TV channel. Yeah. But like, be skeptical of the people that are trying to get you to believe that they're something because most people are just people. So if you look in their closet, you're going to see some dirty laundry. So when do you start having those conversations with them?

14, 15. When they start saying, you know, like, yeah, that's when it all kicks off. Yeah. Honey, when they're so little, it's like, hmm. You don't want to say, be afraid of everyone. No, you don't. But you also don't want them to just be like running into strangers' cars. Yeah.

I would never be away from my kid long enough for that to happen. Yeah, that's the thing is you probably wouldn't. Right. I certainly wouldn't. Yeah. I certainly wouldn't. I don't send them to like daycare or nursery or anything like that. That's good.

I'm like, no, you stay with me. If they go to a class, I'm coming with you. Yeah. I'm going to sit in the hallway. Well, that says to me that that's someone who's been in the world and has experienced deception, has experienced people doing things and being dishonest. And I think that that's actually normal when you're as experienced as you are.

I mean, you've been making music and touring and doing all that since you were 16. Mm-hmm. So you have decades of experience with people that are either, they either want something from you in some instances that are trying to manipulate. you in some instances that are deceiving you in some way. And then you have the other side, which are people who are just giving you. I just want to jam.

Unbridled love and affection and attention. And that isn't even that honest, right? Like it's not to say it's not great because they're expressing. No, but it's a surface level thing. Because they don't know you. It's surface level. They don't actually know you. No, they don't know.

And if they did, they'd be like, oh my God. So it's not, that's the thing is like when it when someone who, who's like loves your music comes up to you. It's like, you changed my life. Oh, yeah. You're not going to say, well, actually, I didn't change your life. I didn't. You did it.

You did. Yeah, you did. And this is probably what you did. And my music maybe inspired you or gave you a soundtrack or it was a positive force in your psyche to go forward and try and take care of yourself, love yourself, all that. So I'm happy. I played a role. Yeah.

A positive role in your life. but you actually had to do the work. They had to do it. Yeah. And they should take the credit for that. Right, but you can't even get into that. No, you can't because it's such a quick, it's a quick moment. It's a quick moment or it might feel like rejection.

But like that's the reality of when you're out there for 20 years in the world, expressing yourself and people are agreeing. Yeah. I had to have, well, I had a day of media training when this younger. Yeah, I remember though. Oh my God. They were like, okay, Jass, you cannot tell people you don't like your single. I'm like, well, then you shouldn't have made me sing it. Yeah. Yeah. And then put me in front of a camera and asked me to lie about that. No.

So then they had, yeah, they had me do a day of media training and that did not go very well. Yeah. That was funny. But, you know, I am who I am. Yeah. I did not like the single at the time. You know, it's funny. I always found you to be, as a spectator. I always found you to be very much an say what's on your mind kind of person. And when I sit with you, I realize it's true, but it's with a lot of warmth. Oh, which is different than anger.

Oh, yeah, no, no anger. It's just a warm, honest truth. Yes. When I was younger, I had the anger, I think. And I only had it for like a, I feel like it was like a two year period. Yeah, that's normal. And yeah, and I'm glad I had that. and I'm so glad I got over it quickly,

and I don't hold it still now, because that's tiring. It's probably likely, like, a part of your growth. Yeah, yeah, you've got to do it. Go through it. You have to do it. You have to go. Yeah, I think being a teenager is, like, annoying for anyone.

And then in front of people. And then in front of people, yeah. And then you have to, I certainly had to, like, sort of fight to sing the songs I wanted to sing. Yeah. Or wear the clothes I wanted to wear, like really, like, simple stuff. You should not have to fight to do that.

You should just be able to. do that. But now I've decided, no, I don't have to fight. I just have to do it. Why do I think I had to fight? Yeah, why did I think I couldn't just say no? Yeah. Nah. We can just say no. Because when you're young and there's all these adults. Yeah. And they're the big, important, powerful, the manager, the label. And you're like, oh my God. I have to do this. I have to. You don't have to do anything. No, actually, you don't. You can just say no. And with a smile. And like, I think a lot of artists need to hear that because there's artists that are full grown that still feel like they have to fight to be themselves.

I know. Yeah. And I kind of say it all the time. I'm like, listen. Why do you? Yeah. If I, if some A&R guy is sitting there telling me what song to put on my record and I don't like the fucking shoes he's wearing.

You'd be like, bye, bye. There's no way I'm listening to him about a song. No. Because it's style. Oh my God. Yes, exactly. It's a thing. I think if you were sort of unsure.

of what you were doing. Like, okay, you know, I want to try a new style of music. I've never done this before. And I don't know, like, I don't know what core progression is normal in this style. Then you can open up your heart to going, hey, can you tell me what should be doing? But if you are fully clear, fully clear on who you are and what you want to do, what you want to say, what you want to sound like, you don't need to ask someone's permission. Oh my goodness. that's completely mental.

Just have to go do it. I also found somewhere in the process, the end-all be-all isn't the metrics of the success of the record of the song. It isn't the end-all be-all. No, it's not. The end-all be-all is actually how I feel about it. Yeah. And then if I start to care the most about that and protect that,

it all works itself out. Mm-hmm. Because then the people that receive it love it because you love it. Mm-hmm. If you don't love it, and they're not going to love it. I agree with that. They're going to feel that, you know. Even if you're singing words that they don't understand, they're going to feel that.

Yeah. Yeah. It's the energy thing. So. Now I sound like super hippie, but it is the truth. No, no, but I'm a little hippie-dippy sometimes. Just the truth, in it. Yeah.

You know. It's all, there's something to it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And we can market the shit out of something. If it's. Yeah, if it's disingenuous. And if you didn't, it's, it's, you didn't,

If you didn't like it before, you're not going to like it after. No. It doesn't matter how big it is. It's going to be worse. And you're not going to enjoy singing that every night. Yeah. You've got to be super excited about your music. I remember they used to say to me, oh, you know, they used to say Tina Turner didn't like

private dancer or something like that. She didn't like it. I was like, how do you see this as a positive, guys? Why are you telling me this as a positive? Yeah. And they're like, well, she hated it and it was a big hit. I'm like, so she had to say that for the, for the, rest of her life. Guys, you were missing the point. But they were coming from a different perspective.

Yeah, they were just thinking about hits. Yeah, it's a business kind of decision. Now, what I had to learn is to not be mad at people that didn't like what I like. So, you know, yuck someone else is yum, right? So you've got some people love business. That is their passion. Do not yuck that. Yeah, yeah. Let them do that. Let them do it. I love music. I don't want them to yuck it. so they should let me do it. We can do these things separately. Yeah. And have dinner, laugh, joke, go to the park.

They can work well together and find a middle ground for sure. They can work well together, yeah. Or not. Or not. They can work separately and then still be happy people. Yeah. You know, we don't have to do it. We don't have to do this.

It's true. But what stage of your development or career or whatever did you feel like you really came into that self-awareness and that like place where you realize like, oh, I'm not, I actually don't have to answer to anyone but myself. I answer to the people that I love. I answer to the people that I respect and the people that I work with. But at the end of the day, I'm not working for anyone. I'm making art and I'm expressing myself.

And I'm confident in that. Like, was there a switch? There was a switch. Now, I don't know if there was a proper switch. I think I've sort of had that in me since I was young because the way my parents are. Right. So my mum always said to me, you do anything you want, love. You know, she's very, like, creative and she was like, you're amazing, you know.

And my dad was like, play to your strengths. Right. You cannot do anything you want. Right. But my dad said, no one can make you do anything ever, ever. Right. And that just rang around in my head. Like, because here, I think he would repeat it a lot.

And it just rang in my head. I remember being. What a good statement to have. No one can make you do anything ever. Right. Yeah. So then every action you make is on you. You decide.

It's on you. You decide. Yeah. You know, so I think that's been really helpful to me, just having that. I remember when I was about, well, I left school at 14. I didn't do much school. I actually got kicked out of school. But I didn't do anything wrong.

I just had a job. Right. And they didn't like love me there. Right. But where was the school? It was in Uffcom. Uffcom school. Okay.

Now, okay. Is that where in England is that? It's, um, do you know Devin? Yeah. It's in Devon. So in a little village called Uffcom. Just off a junction 27. Hmm.

And I went there for a bit and they'd asked me to leave. because I wasn't going because I was singing. And the head of the school had had a meeting with my mom saying, you know, when's this, all this singing stuff going to stop? All this nonsense. Yeah, like, when's she going to, you know, because our books, she's a bit tardy. Mom was like, well, I hope it doesn't stop. We want to encourage her, you know.

Yeah. Because, you know, I was in like the bottom sets. I wasn't going to do anything else, you know. So anyway, so they said, no, you got to, you have to go. And now they have a bloody venue and a studio and everything. And they want me to, like, go in there and open it and stuff. I'm like, oh, I'm not going. I'm not going back there.

That's funny, yeah. But I'm glad they have that. Yeah, that's good. But I remember talking to one of the teachers because he had, he had like shouted at this little boy. And he was so big. He was so big. And this little boy was so, you know how boys take a long time to shoot up, don't they? Yeah, some of us.

So, you know. I was like, were you? Yeah. I always felt sorry for the little ones. Yeah, a little guy. Bless him. Yeah. And he's being.

shouted at by this massive bellowing man. I said to him, hey, stop doing that. So, of course, then I got in trouble. You got in trouble. And I had to sit there and I had to sort of talk to this guy and it was all like, we're going to expel you, la, la, la, la. And I remembered my dad. I remember him saying, you know, no one can make you do anything ever.

You know, this is a really important attitude to have. When I'm talking to him, I'm like, okay, with all. all respect. You shouldn't be, I felt like he was trying to make the little boy do whatever he wanted him to do. And I was like that, he was scared and you weren't protecting it. Yeah. This is wrong. And I felt like that was, even though that's not an important thing to anybody other than me, that moment was like, okay, this has taught me how to deal with really scary, big people that are acting like they're in power. Right. And protect people that aren't. So that helped me. with all of the things that I've dealt with

in the music industry and all of the things doing the world tour, all of it. It's like just look after those that need looking after. Know that you don't have to do anything. You don't have to listen to someone if you don't want to listen to them. You don't have to walk into their office and sit down and listen to the head teacher if you don't want to. If you wanted to, that's on you.

You don't have to do shit. Right. So it's up to you. And I think that was helpful. That little moment was like, hmm, I can do this. I'm brave and I can be polite at the same time. Yeah. Yeah.

It makes a lot of sense. Yeah. It does. It's funny. I think that side of you comes out when you sing. Oh, yeah? Yeah. There's quite a lot of strength.

Yeah. When you sing. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So I think that artists are super dynamic people. Oh, yeah. So we have different sides.

Yeah. And they come out in different places. Some when you're creating, some when you're on stage, some when you're on stage, some when you you're in an interview or you're interacting with people. And then there's this other side of you in life, like this person I'm sitting with. And they're different sides. And I think that on stage and when you sing, it's like a very strong. Different songs sort of. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like the way that I've tried to write songs, I don't know if I've achieved the goal, but I try to sort of, if I'm talking about something that's upsetting, which a lot of songs are about something that's upsetting, aren't they?

Yeah. Love is hard. Yeah, love is hard. I try to have a bridge that gives you hope. So if someone is listening to that and they're feeling like, oh, you know, I've got unrequited love in my life or whatever it is. There is a softness in us all. There's a vulnerability in us all. Yeah, deep need. Yeah, when we have that like, I just want to be like, okay.

And then you get to the bridge and then it's like, fuck it, I'm going to be okay, and this is how I'm going to be okay, and you're not going to kind of control me. And I think that try to keep that theme so then people get strength from it. Yeah. And it gives me strength in those moments too, because I have to tell the story. But God, I've had some ridiculous moments happen where I didn't feel strong. Yeah. And now I sing songs about those moments and it's very strong. So that's the thing is when I say when did you realize you didn't have to do anything, It's not that I think you ever did anything you didn't want to do.

I think you come into a game that's a bit dishonest with an honest attitude. And then you don't realize the game that everyone else is playing a little bit. And then as you get to know the game, you realize, oh, there's these other rules I didn't know about. Yeah, I don't know what they're on about all these. I completely understand what you're saying. And you've just put it in like a little cute sentence there. And then you grow up and you go, oh. Yeah.

I don't have to listen to you guys. We don't have to do that. All this advice you're giving me is almost like you're filling the space with words because you want to reinforce how important you are and why I should listen to you. So I kind of listened to you because I believed you and you were lying. Yeah. Because nothing's actually important except the art.

And the art is coming from the artist. And the artist has to love it. Being honest is the most important thing. Being honest. I think so. you and for the listener, for everyone, for every single person involved. Even if, okay, so this is set up, there's a bunch of people in this. I know how many people are in this room.

What have we got? Five, six. Okay, so it takes more than one person to do a job, right? Yeah, absolutely. And honesty is the most important thing you can have when you were trying to do anything with anyone else. You have to have that honesty. Otherwise, what are we doing?

Well, it's a bloody nightmare if you don't have it. It's a mess. Because people think something's happening. It's not happening. It's like it causes dramas within the group. It stops productivity. It makes people feel upset. Waste time.

Like nothing good comes from not being honest. And the same goes for writing a song and giving it to someone. If you're going to give them bullshit, that is not going to be a good thing coming back to you. They're not going to feel good and neither are you. It's the same with anything, anything, anything, anything. Yeah. It's true. Yeah.

It's very simple. That's kind of deep though. It's simple and deep. Yeah. Straightforward. Life is very straightforward if you let it be. It's very straightforward and complicated. Only if you let it be. If you let it be. And the complication can come from dishonesty.

Yes. See, that is the problem. The cause of the dishonesty might not be evil. It might be fear. It might be. Usually fear, isn't it? Yeah, a lot of fear. Like, I'm afraid to hurt someone's feelings or I'm afraid to say no to someone or I'm afraid. And we all experience this all the time. my kids all the time like you're going to lie because we all lie when we're afraid we lie we lie our way out of something because we're afraid nothing good can come from fear right right um and then it takes you off your path and then you're digging a deeper hole because you're afraid instead of just it always feels

better to kind of the the truth always works does work you know yeah i always like say that it's weird because it does kind of work it does work it can it can throw people sometimes yeah which might not work for like them in that moment, you know, sometimes if you're honest, like too quick before you know someone, you know how to be tactful with them. It can really jar people. Oh my God. Yeah. Like, you can see that like physical reaction. Like, oh shit, I should have been softer. I should have sugar-coated that one. Yeah. But I'm just too tired to be doing that. And it's easier to be consistent when you're coming from that place too. Yeah. And people will get to know that you're just being honest. You're not being mean. Well, they start to rely on it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You start to really to trust you to like it because there's something really nice about that yeah yeah it's good I like that

it's just better it's just life is just better with the truth if you have it you might not have it you might not know what it is so just say don't bloody know

yeah don't you know which is also a really nice honest answer when you're in dealing with anything

when you ask someone something and they don't feel the pressure to come up with an answer. To make something up, yeah. Instead it's going, you know what, I don't know. I always say, I don't know, but I'll find out. Yeah. And then I go try to find out. Yeah. And then I'm either coming back with some answer or I'm going, uh, I couldn't find out. Yeah. I'm stumped. I don't know. How about

someone else? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Ask that guy. Okay, so have you read the love languages book? No. Do you know your love language? Uh, well, tell me about it. And I'll likely be able to tell you what Okay, so there's five. Yeah, what's yours? Mine is quality time and acts of service. Oh. That's how you show love? That's how I show love and that's how I receive it.

Yes, it's my language. So the idea is if you're speaking Chinese to someone that's speaking French, there's going to be a couple things that get missed. Okay. You know, you might get the body language. You might get some of it, but you're not going to get everything, are you? Because you're speaking two different languages. Yeah.

So there's five love languages. It's a very short book. You can do like a little quiz online and find out your love language. So Codes is Words of Affirmation for sure. And that one is the bottom one for me. Oh.

So I'm like, shit. Okay, so what is it? It's gifts. Yep. Words of affirmation, acts of service, quality time, and touch, physical touch. And a lot of men

think that their physical touch. Yeah. And actually, you might do the quiz and find out you're something else. Okay. But yeah, physical touch and words of affirmation for Cody. And for me, that words were on the bottom, I sort of like felt uncomfortable with people say like too many nice things to me, you know? Interesting.

So then I don't say them as well. So I had to just knowing that. Yeah, I'm like, oh, I don't need to say it. Like he knows I love him. You know, yeah. So I had to really put it in my mind every morning, be like, he's words of affirmation, Josh. That's what he is.

That's what he is. If you think he looks gorgeous, just tell him. Just open your mouth and say it out loud. And it's brilliant. Just so brilliant. You know, and if Cody unloads the dishwasher, I'm like... I'm like, I'm gonna'amena. And, like, my music, my hair changed with me and has to be able to

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in the world. That is music for your Ohidos.

No, you do more Wiltas. Your business will your business will

be a period of a per year for a year on a

year. You're such a good man. Yeah, because it helps me you know. That's my

man. And he'll like set up my studio for me and he'll put like Yeah, he does

stuff for you. He does stuff he's a man. He's a man. He's a man. He's a man. I like

Cody. Yeah, he's a man. He's a great. It's brilliant. I feel like Cody would

be like a good guy. He's like he's a he's a good guy. He is a good guy to have. Mm-hmm. Oh, he's a good guy to have on your side? Yeah, that's for sure. I want that guy on my team. You want him in your stockade. Solid. So my dad has this game that we play. It's actually really bad because the whole family starts fighting when we play this game. That's great. I love those games. Terrible. Yeah. So it's like after a lot of wine has been drunk and, you know, people start arguing about this. He's like, look, we need to discuss the stockade. who would be in your stockade and why and it can get so harsh

like apocalypse stockade okay got it so everything's gone to shit yeah who's in your you have nothing everyone's fighting each other for food and all that kind of stuff

like who's there out of the people that you know and you know he would ask us to look at our immediate friends when we were younger he's like is that person in your stockade and we were like yeah I love him he's great he's really fun

why yeah what's he gonna do why is he in there like oh god and what's he bring to the table we Yeah. But no, that's not going to be enough.

There's no, there's, we do not need to be high right now. We are like, you know, that is not the purpose of the stockade. So you have to look at, and that can get a bit hairy in conversation. But it's nice to realize that the person you married is, he's actually like a real one. Yeah. You're like, that guy. Oh yeah. He's down.

He's down. And he's so protective. He's so loving. He's like, yeah. Yeah. And his heart's in the right place. But it's good. have a balance in a family unit. So our children will grow up with a balance from their grandparents

to their parents. Like, I actually think this, it should be done this way or I think it should be done this way. Yeah. Okay, well, what do you think? Rather than dad's a wanker, mum's a bitch, we're not doing that. Right. It's just all balance. Everything is for discussion. Yeah. Which is a beautiful part of life. It's real, too. That's how the world is. Yeah. And through those conversations, you have like, thoughtful moments where you might change your mind on certain things. It's interesting. What strikes me is it feels to me like the most important aspect of your life is your family. Yeah. It's really sweet. Yeah, it's the best. That's the reason. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited about them. Yeah. It's really great. Yeah. I love them.

I feel like you crack the code. Oh yeah. Finally, I got there. Yeah, me too. That's what I was trying to get to. Yeah. And finally I got them. I see it. You're all about, art and experience. Yeah, just life. I think each person has a responsibility to themselves to be happy. Yeah.

And if you're not happy, you're not really very good for anyone. Yeah, if you're not happy, you've got to figure it out. You do. Because you're only going to be as happy as you are right now. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. Always say that. We're only going to be as happy as we are right now, so we better figure it out. Yeah, we've got to figure it out. and it's up to us and we can't blame the world.

Yeah. You can't blame anyone else. It can't be like, oh, well, they won't let me do this because I signed a thing. Oh, no one to let. No one. What do you mean, let you? Yeah, you got to do it. It's on you.

You have to do it. And if your dream is to make people smile with songs, then go ahead and do it. Even if you can't sing a lick, I guarantee you people will smile. If you stand in a park with a guitar and bang away, it doesn't matter how good you are. If that's what you want to do, You can do it. You can go and do it in a pub. Go do it.

I just, yeah, I just wanted to do something positive and not waste. I don't want to be like purposeless. Yeah. I think that's one of the coolest things I've heard. Oh, yeah? Yeah. That's funny. It's very, very cool.

It really gives me like a lot of insight into your, into you and your music. It really does. It's really great. Oh, good. It's really awesome. That's why I do this show. Well, I mean, you've asked very different questions, like deep. It's like totally different interviews.

So you're going to see a different piece of people. Like this is a great, this must have been so interesting for you doing this. It is. It always is. Yeah. Because I like to understand really, you know, really talented people. They're special. They have something that maybe it was some experience or maybe it was all the experience.

but you get insight into like, you know, not just why are they successful. Why does so many people like them? But you get to see why someone is. You understand their whole catalog almost. Right. When you understand how they think and how they see the world and like how they decide things. I think that you have a really great approach to how you make your art. Because it's coming from a good place.

Yeah. And you're trying to experience something. Yeah. and connect with people and give people that experience. Yeah. You know, I want to feel, or I want to give the feeling that I got when I listened to Aretha Franklin and when I was really young, I remember thinking, oh my God, they're so exciting. Like, I remember her.

How does she do that? I mean, yeah, like, it was cool. It was, I remember it like it was yesterday. It was an advert, commercial, for her greatest hits and it come on the TV. I was like, this woman's voice and, you know, goosebumps. I was like, oh, this is so amazing. It made me feel like just excited. And I had to run upstairs and get a pen and paper and write her name down because I'd never heard of Aretha Franklin before.

And it was just like, wow, that's magic. If I can give that magic to people, then this is a cool little life. Yeah, it's special. Yeah. That's cool. It's very special. Yeah, it's like. It's interesting.

You're one of those voices. an artist that have a real, it's like Aretha Franklin, or you could name some other singers that have a real timeless, like you could sing in any decade. Oh, that's nice. There's something about that

that's really like hard to be. That's nice. You know, I would say... Apart from this one, Autotune and me are not going to make friends ever. Yeah, but what's interesting is you haven't, tried to conform to a time. No, we just do.

You're just doing what you do when you do it. Yeah. Or you've taken some time off. Make good sounds. And then you'll know when it's time. Yeah. Because you want to say something. You want to sing something.

Yeah. And I suspect that you'll discover, I'll bet you any amount of money that you'll discover in the next 10 years what that actually means and why that's so important. because I think you'll likely do something that is really musically important. Oh, you think so. Absolutely. I think you have one of those.

I think you have one of those voices that's just like, timeless is a weird, is a hard word. It's a word that's hard, hard to, it is very hard to say something is timeless. And it's not just because the style of the music, there's something in a vocal that you could hear. That's someone's heart. Yeah. That's what you're hearing.

Yeah, but there's a lot of soul in it. Yeah, because the human emotion is not going to, like, go out of fashion. Yeah. You know, so if you're hearing someone's heart from the 20s, you feel it here today. Yeah. You know, it's kind of great that we can record sound. It's pretty crazy. That's the power of music. Yeah.

So what are you working on now? So now, well, everything's about my kids. So I'm like, oh, God, I realize when I chat, I'm like, God, I always talk about my kids. but Violet, I was trying to play our soul music. I mean, I do still. And she was really into Fight the Power by the Isy Brothers. The bass line was like, she was loving that. Yeah.

But mostly she liked dance music. Okay. So, and obviously I have not, I've probably stepped foot in a club like three times in my life. Like, I'm just like, I don't know. Yeah, like, I don't know anything about that type of music. But then, okay, so I. It's fun, though. It's fun.

It's really fun. And I have no idea how to make that. So I was like, right, VV, I know you need to hear something that you can dance to. So I was like, hey, go, go, go. Play disco music. And now that is it. That's the vibe in the house. It's disco.

And it's soul music. It's all soul. Yeah, disco is old school soul. Like 70s disco. That is the vibe. Are you going to make a disco record? I'd love to make a disco record. I think you would crush a disco record.

Love to, love to. Yeah. So I think you would just crush it. Yeah. I've got a couple tunes. I think it's a great idea. You do? Yes.

Okay, good. And I think you should go all the way with it. I think you should try to make a disco record like they made disco records. That's what I want to do. Yes. I want to like cut it to tape. Yeah. I mean, I think it would be really nice to have that option.

Yeah. If you could do it to tape, fine. The live aspect of disco was really, was really special. And the strings, like the orchestration in those records, they are so incredible. So great and very simple. but just like emotional. So good. Those bass lines, oh.

Yeah, that was the song. That was the song. You had to have a sick. Sick bass line was the song. Yeah. I love, love, love that. I think that's a great idea. Yeah, so yeah, and it's not too far away from, you know, it's soul music faster.

Yeah, it is. I just love it. Yeah. And then, you know, that was it. I did a song with the shapeshifter Simon Marlin. And it was interesting how we got linked up. It was a makeup artist of mine that I've known. known since I was a kid, literally just DM'd him or something.

It was like, you need to wait with Josh. And then that was it. So we ended up linking. And he was like, so how do you know, Dary? I'm like, what do you mean? I thought you knew Daryl. The makeup parties. He's like, no, he just DM me, random me.

I was like, oh my God. So now we're doing this song together. It's called Bring on the Rain. It's out. But it's the first time I've heard my voice on a dance record. That's great. I like, oh. Do you like it?

I really liked it. Oh, good. But this is nice. Because most of those dance records, they sort of are, they've taken samples from old school soul records. Yeah. And disco records. Like, you know, Donna Summer is like definitely that. So it's kind of magic, isn't it?

Anyway, that's what I'd like to do. I'm working on it. But it's not got anywhere yet, apart from in my little studio in my garden. That's good. Yeah. I think that's great. You do. Well, you're iconic.

Oh, no. I don't know. You are iconic. I know. You're, let me just tell you, you're iconic. And I think iconic people do iconic shit. Doesn't matter when, doesn't matter why. But there's something that I could hear that record.

So that's exciting to me. Be fun, wouldn't it? What about live? Are you doing any shows? Oh, yeah. So we've got at the end of April, I'm doing like a co-headline with Melissa Etheridge. Amazing. So that's pretty fun.

That's insane. Because she is a big influence to me. My mom went to a gig of hers when I was in her belly. Yeah. Amazing. So she's an influence. She's a big influence to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

For sure. She's the only real rock-esque influence that I had. It was all like a lot of big soul voices in the house. Really? And then Melissa Etheridge was like the rockiest. I know it's not like straight, half or rock, but it's rock soul. Melissa Etheridge is very rock and roll to me. It's rock, isn't it?

But her voice is like so... It's iconic. So I'm like, oh, this, I've always loved her. And I know every word to pretty much every one of her songs. So I'm a bit of a fan. So I'm, yeah, I'm a fan. So I play before her and then she plays. If I'm lucky, I'll get to jump up on stage with her.

Fingers cross, she'll let me do that. Yeah. I would like to do that. That would be really nice. So you would love to sing with her. Oh, yeah. I have sung with her once. Right.

That's how we got to know each other. When I was about 17, the Grammys wanted to, honor Janice Joplin. Yeah. And so they asked Melissa to do that and me. Oh yeah, I remember that. Oh, you do? Yeah.

Oh, cool. Yeah, that was cool. Yeah. That was the first time we met. And then you became friends. She seems cool. She is cool. She's lovely.

She's just, oh, I love her. So it's exciting to be able to do that. You're killing it. Oh. You really are. I'm really happy for you. Oh, thank you so much. I hope I get to meet Cody one day.

Oh, yes. You will. Do we cover the things that on the music side that you want to talk about? No, I think we did. What did we not do? Oh, the live album. Okay, the live album.

We didn't talk about the live album. So I made a live album. Okay. And I did that because the fans asked for it. You know what? The best thing about the social media stuff that we didn't have when we first started. Yeah, we didn't.

You remember them days? Yeah. When there was none of that silliness. Yeah. We just went to play. And there was like actual like fan mail. Yeah. People would write you letters.

Yeah, real letters. Yeah. Remember that? Yeah. That was a real thing. Yeah. It's really. sweet. Yeah. But yeah, so if people come to the gig, it was either word of mouth or they heard it on

the radio or on TV or something like that. But now it's all like immediate. It's right there, which is actually very annoying because that means we have to do a lot more work. But it's also wonderful because I get to talk directly to them. Like I can literally have a conversation. Yeah. I think that's so cool. Yeah. So a couple times I've done some like, artwork competitions and stuff for the records. I did one for this last single and for the live album. So that was amazing because I got to see all their ideas. Yeah, it's great.

It was like a collaboration. It was magic. Yeah. And I get to ask them, what would they like? What do you want? And so they said, a live album, a live album, a live album, a live album, a live album. And I was like, shit. Because I've always been a bit nervous about doing that.

It's crazy because you're really good live. Thank you. But I've never felt like it was all. good. I've always been like, that's not exactly right. And, you know, I'm just, I think I'm just insecure about that. I get it. You know, so. Perfectionist. Yeah, I just don't want to be shit. Yeah. So, you know, so I've, I've never really wanted to do it. But that being that they asked, I thought, okay, I'm going to do it. So I did it. And I actually love it. I was a bit emotional when I listened to the, to the mix. I was like, I can't believe it sounds good. That's great.

It's out. It's out. It's out. It's out. It's called 20 years of soul. Amazing. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you, darling. Congrats on everything. Oh, thank you. Thanks for coming.

Thank you for having me. So great. It's lovely to be here. It was really nice to talk to you. Next time we should make tea. Yeah. That's a good idea. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of artist friendly.

If you really liked it, you can follow, like, subscribe to the show, anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support and we'll see you next time.