Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Kyle Ng

Episode Date: January 31, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Kyle Ng. Ng is the co-founder and creative director behind Brain Dead. Founded in 2014, Brain Dead taps into varying subcultures ��� punk, skateboarding, streetwear — that are reflected in its vivid, one-of-a-kind pieces. The brand also sponsors the hardcore festival Sound and Fury and frequently collaborates with musicians, from veterans (Green Day, Red Hot Chili Peppers) to up-and-comers (Anxious, GEL). ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden and this is artist friendly. On this episode, I'm talking to the creative director and co-founder of one of my favorite brands, Brain Dead. Kyle Eng. Let's go. I'm so happy you're here because I'm such a big fan of Brain Dead. Thanks, but. And I don't know, I've just like been a fan. I'm actually wearing one of my shirts today. How did this Green Day collaboration happen? Honestly, I think we were talking some people and I'm from the Bay Area. Yeah. Actually, weirdly enough, I remember a long time ago, I told your brother, but basically

in middle school, like, you know, I was getting into punk rock and shit. Yeah. And the only other girl who was like a punker was this girl named Abby. And basically, yeah, so basically she comes up to me and, you know, we're like in history class and she's like, hey, like we don't know each other at all besides class. I was like we've never really talked. Okay. And she's like, hey, it seems like you'd want to like maybe go to like a show at some time.

Like, yeah, let's do that. She's like, um, my cousins are playing a warped tour. And I'm like, oh, cool. That sounds great. And we go, like her mom drives us into San Francisco to warp tour. I don't know. Yeah, the wharf. Yeah.

And basically it was you guys. And it was like probably your first warp tour that you guys played. And you pulled up on like a low rider bicycle. Yeah. And it was really. really cool. It was an amazing show. It was like being in a good Charlotte video. Yeah, it was really fun. So when we got into Brain Dead over the last couple years, that was one of the first, I don't know when you told Benj that or Josh that. Josh. Okay. So we were talking about that

and he told me and I thought that was funny because I remember that. Yeah, yeah. And Abby and Alexandra, our cousins lived in San Francisco and we always thought that was so cool. Yeah, yeah. My aunt moved out there. We were from Maryland, a small place. And I actually went out there and visited them. My first trip to California ever was visiting them. It was amazing. Went to Gilman Street, saw a show. Exactly. And it was right in the beginning when we were starting to meet with labels and stuff. And we ended up going there and then going to L.A. But it was pretty magical. But that story is so cool and weird and crazy. Well, it's so funny because there wasn't like a time where, you know, like, that was like

the first experience of going to like a show. Right. I mean, that was like before like I got really into like punk stuff. So to that point, you know, like then you go around and then you're like going to the Gilman. Yeah. And obviously Green Day is like the Jesus of the Gilman, right? It's like it's like the holy. Bay Area legendary shit.

Yeah. And then I knew that anniversary of Duky was coming up and we kind of talked about it. We have to make this happen because it's like, for me, that was like quintessential, obviously. But like Berkeley is a really cool place because you have so many this diverse group of musicians. And throughout each era, I learned so much. And now, like, to be able to work with like someone like Green Day, but then also to work with, you know, smaller bands and all these things like tsunami from San Jose. Yep. It's like incredible to like span what the barrier is.

And a lot of people we work with now are just like filmmakers. from that scene. So it's really cool. I want to finish the thought about my cousins because I didn't get to spend a ton of time with them growing up, but I certainly did enough to have like a very sweet relationship with they're your cousins. Yeah, yeah. You're related. And they are to, in my mind, I just always thought they were super cool and they've grown

up to be really cool people. And I think it's cool that you guys grew up together. And that's like, that's a full circle memory. I just think it's fucking dope. Yeah, it's so good. Going to the Bay Area with music and it feels like music's been a big part of your creative process somehow. Brain debt to me is so interesting because it's like, it's such a cool brand that does not

mirror or mimic any other brand, which is hard to find. And I've been, you know, a fan of streetwear brands and fashion brands and all the different kinds of brands for so long. I'd like to almost think I have a degree in being able to look at a brand and analyze and almost see like the creative process behind it, but really analyze like good, what I think are good brands and original, authentic, unique brands versus kind of like, hey, let's make a brand like that and sell it. Because it's almost like music. When you hear a band that you can feel the originality of what they're trying to do, you can feel the protection. they have over their art. You can feel all of that. It resonates through everything they do,

the songs, to the merch, to the tour. And so I think I look at brands a lot like music brands, music bands, an artist. And I think I've gained an insight to it over the decades that I've been in it, that I didn't have when I was actually creating my own legacy. I don't think I had the experience that I have now. And I don't know that I would do everything the same. But I also appreciate that unconscious kind of naive approach we had. But now as an older guy with some experience, I can get there pretty quick on things that I think are cool and unique and authentic

versus like copy, paste, put it out. Brain dead to me is that. It's this unique, authentic. original to itself brand and you can feel the music we've been in it but there's more it's not just music feels like there's nature feels like there's like a lifestyle that's been lived and you're expressing yourself through your brand that's a perfect example like for me I think about brands as identity right like you know if you think about the early cultural brands or you know called street wear whatever or even fashion

it was all about a certain lifestyle like polo is you're living this American lifestyle like whether it's elite or whatever you know street where you think it's supreme you think of New York and what that means and for us we want to be more of like a 360 perspective of identity

of like the idea that like we're not here to formulate like if you meet someone and it's like the obvious things and you're like they're just saying things that like are just bait to like make you like them you're probably not going to like them you're going to be like this guy's kind of corny or like they're cheesy or whatever. But like when you meet someone who's like, oh, I'm really into like kayaking and then

I'm also really love like punk, but I also love like, you know, orchestral music. You're like, oh, that's interesting because he's building these puzzle pieces that create the body of his own identity. Yeah. And I think brands have to be more like that because that's what makes originality and makes something different. Probably in like 2004, I went to a show with my friend and it was Mike Patton from Faith No More.

Mr. Bumble. Yeah. And, like, at this time, like, you got to think I was listening to, like, punk, hardcore, like, all those things, you know, Blood Brothers are really popular, refuse. And that's what I was really into. And how old were you at that time? I was probably, like, 14. Oh, wow.

So I was like, oh, okay, like, I'm into hard shit. I'm into, like, hip-hop and stuff. But then when I saw Mike Patton, he comes on live with this guy, John Zorn, who's, like, crazy jazz saxophonist, but also, like, incorporates, metal and stuff. He goes on stage and he performs. and he's wearing the band The Locus. He had like a Locust t-shirt and like triple XL and like a chain

and he's just making noises. And it was the hardest shit I've ever heard of my life. And at that point I realized, whoa, when I go to these shows, every band's trying to sound like a band that I know. Like, you know, in the scene where you go to Gilman, every band's like, I got to be this hardcore band.

I got to be a beat down band. I got to be whatever. But with Mike Patton, when I saw that, it just changed my mind of like, oh, you don't have to be like this like singular mindset. It can be experimental. It can be weird. And that's the whole point. It's like we got into all this stuff because of subversive and subcultural. And at some point when everything sounds the same, it's, it's just monoculture. So like even when it comes to things that are like clon cope subversive,

whether it's streetwear or it's music, it becomes mono. And it becomes like a formula that's like not even exciting. Like it's not even like pop. Like pop's more interesting than like a punk band trying to sound like another punk band you know i mean because that's that's a formula that's like innovative that's a genre you know i mean but like and that i do think that the potential for different is bigger than the potential for same but i think that listening to that i think you're right on the money um we were we're like a poster child for this okay so our band good charlotte um i love to unpack and analyze like what we did at any chance i get because i think I still don't think we knew the whole time what we were doing.

I think at first you start the same because you want to be a part of something. Of course. We were no different from any other band in that regard was like we saw something. We were like, I want to do that and I want to be a part of that. And I want all those people to like me too. They seem like they love that guy. Yeah. And then as you start to gain some experience and understanding of what you're doing

as you go and you get a little better at it, I think you start to dig for your own individual perspective on it. And that's why artist development, brand development is so important. That's why you don't want to have your first hit too early. You can be a victim of your own success, right? You want to go through the metamorphosis of the growth and the development to find your artistic perspective. And I think we did that in real time in front of everybody.

and I think we had some good things that come with that, and there are some bad things that come with that. But at the end of the day, I think that, like, you start a lot of times in the same because you want to be a part of something, and then you start to explore, well, then you become a part of it, and you get comfortable there,

so you no longer are enamored by this group because you're a part of the group. And then you start to explore, like, who am I? What's my voice sound like? And then you start diving into, like, these these like the the mike patten experience you had yeah or for me it would be like the maybe different pop experiences where like i remember um i was such a fan of Andre three thousand right from outcast and i loved outcast and i think he was always digging for like an artistic

his own he was never staying the same he was always pushing pushing to the point where it feels like now he doesn't do anything because he's almost like he's bored it's like a block yeah it's like it's like i'm not doing anything it's our very artistic i think like true artistic stance to not cash in on everybody's love for you right and i think i learned a lot from just watching i don't know him personally i just watched him and i and so this is me as a fan going watching how he's represented himself is i've loved it because i think he's a true artist and I think he's taking this stance like very rarely am I going to do something and it's got to be something that I want to do and every now and then it'll pop up on something and it's great but it's

very few and far between because I just feel like from my perspective as a fan I go it's going to be very hard to find something that excites that guy because he's so unique to me like one of the greatest that's ever lived so when I look at artists like that I go I love I love that they behave that way. But I think that like finding your own original perspective is like the journey of like an artist. I think it's a hard journey to go on because you're constantly called to like do the low hanging fruit, you know, to pick the low hanging fruit. And it's easy to do that. And I totally get it when people do. Like like I don't really have a lot of, I don't like cast a lot of judgment on artists across the spectrum of artists. Going back to brands, you guys. You guys.

stand out to me as one of those, those brands that, uh, it's unique. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, to that point, what you're saying is like, there's no, there actually isn't anything wrong with any of those phases in your life. Yeah. Yeah. I think the key is just understanding like, what the responsibility is in all those different categories, right? Like, yeah, you know, at the end of day, if you're a brand and you're, you are doing the low hanging fruit, that's a business. Like, you're making money. You're in commerce. Like, Totally cool. Moving units.

But it's funny when it's like, if it's trying to be a cool cultural brand, but then it feels low-hanging fruit, but they're kind of tricking you, you might as well just make stuff for Walmart at that point, in my opinion. It's like this weird thing where you take the cool and you make it, you make it a commodity that's like a shell of itself. And I think that's where, you know,

that's where it gets dangerous. But for us, our big ethos is just like, hey, we're here for like to be inclusive. Like, it's a very non-exclusive brands. Yeah, it is. And it's not like a, oh, we're too cool for you. It's more like, this is just what we're into.

It's definitely, like, that's the other thing I love about Brain Dead. It's not too cool for anyone, but it's super cool. But it's weird. It's like, it's like that cool-ass friend that's friends with everybody, but they're just themselves, you know, that it's cool like that. It's not, you guys are in some of the coolest places in the world. you know you you have your stuff at like Dover Street and you have your stuff around all the stuff that you've had that where I've seen it out there where I go that's fucking cool but it's not too

cool for anyone to to to buy it and where it get into it and that's like our again like our belief is like I'm really into like a lot of nerd shit like magic the gathering and stuff yeah then we'll also do a collaboration I like the collab you did with magic oh thank you and we'll also do stuff with like APC or Dover Street or comb and that's like the cool part is that like it's not about one or the other like, oh, does that make me not cool? Does this like if I am I, you know, when people say like, I'm a closeted this. It's like that's so funny because that's like a gay person being like, oh, I'm closeted. It's like, why is that a bad thing? Like you should be expressing like what you're into and who you are. And like that's what's cool about it is that you

have the freedom to do these things and be free of who you are. And like, again, like saying that you like magic or whatever. It's like a very low-hanging fruit between like that and like literally like sexuality. So I think it's like an interesting take where you're like, I just want people feel like they could express themselves in any form. Yeah. And I think that's our key. It's like, you know, we have a movie theater on Fairfax. Yeah, I've been there. Yeah. The whole point is like, you know, is really to express the idea like how do you make a movie going experience or event space free and inclusive to people who don't feel comfortable going to like an art house theater like usually it's like a middle age white guy and a you know like a younger person of color

might not feel comfortable like oh I don't know anything about good dart and all this stuff it's like no now you have a brand that obviously shows it in different ways yeah but you can also like this thing it's for everyone right like I think that's the key is that like you really have to at this point dismantle like the preconceived notions and like the the how I say like the systemic structures that create like these blocks for people. If that's my, you know, kind of the best way of saying it. Yeah. That's a great way of putting it.

And very small things, right? Like from race, the sexuality to even like hobbies. Like it exists in so many ways because industry literally stops you from, you know what I mean? Like the idea of commodity like creates roads where you have to choose one or the other because it's selling you a product or selling you a concept, right? Like you could only like one. You know I mean? Totally.

High fashion tends to want to create something that feels like unattainable. I think at its best, it's aspirational. At its worst, it's a kind of exclusive unattainable, right? Well, to your point, it's what we're talking about was that systemic roadmap of like you build a barrier where you can't think of it different. because it creates it where there's a safety net. There's always a safety net of cool where it's like, oh, well, you just don't understand it because, you know, it's like art. Like what you say is like if you're too weird, like Mike Patton used to like talk shit on Anthony Ketus, right?

Like, oh, you're whack. Like, you know, there's that whole beef. But then it was just like, well, you're, you're so big. Like I'm going to do this weird freaky music with Mr. Bungle or whatever. And then you're like, okay, but like that's kind of a seat. But he's dope. Yeah. But there's a safety net with Mike Patton, you know?

And that's what I'm trying to say is like he can be that weird. And it's not about success. It's about personal growth of accessibility of letting people kind of like, you don't. Some people, hey, guess what? You're like, again, I go back to like a lot of these musicians. Like if you're a noise musician, you're in it for the noise music. Don't. And then if you try to monetize off the noise music and make it something it's not and you

could tell because it's not authentic and you're doing it because of commerce, then that's a problem. But if you're like, hey, now I'm going to make a pop record. That's cool. But don't make that middle ground. Do you know what I'm saying? Don't go to the middle ground. Own each side.

If you're making noise, if you're making noise music, own it. And don't be mad at the guy who's making a good living. Exactly. Well, I think brand of, you know, rock or whatever. Exactly. And I think with fashion, it's like you could tell how it's just all about commerce because at first they're like, we don't like people of color. Like, is elitist like this?

And then like, oh, no, no, no, like this is what sells. Like, they learn. There's like some weird. You can feel that in, spreadsheet that they see. That's like, oh, no, urban culture is this. And you're like, yo, like, this is crazy.

And you can feel that in the wrong, like in messaging when it's totally like, it's some marketing, you know, of course. A strategy where you're like, whoa, you guys, whoever, however that got past all you people and now it's out in the world, you guys totally fucked up. Are there any modern street? wear brands that you like? It's hard to keep up. I think I admire more brands a lot, right?

Like I admire more brands that are like doing their own thing, experiment. I'm trying to think of like ones off the bat. I'm like, wow. Well, it's a weird time in street wear. It feels like we're in this like in between. It feels like there was a big movement. And now it feels like there's the future brands are going to come. There's someone somewhere making something cool.

And we're going to find out about it. Right. Probably my favorite brand of the last decade would be born. and raised. Yeah, classic. Being in LA, watching that brand emerge and come up as a real local loved brand was a special thing to watch, right? And then also just the fit.

I tend to like all their graphics. I like where they put them on the shirts. For the most part, I always like, I can always find, every time they drop something, I can find a few things that I'm like, yeah, I'll wear that. And I know that their long sleeve t-shirt fits me a certain way, and I just love that. So like fit for me is everything. Once I find a fit I like, I can wear. Also, the cool thing about it is like they never try to expand too much.

They're just like, we do what we do. Right. Right. And that was it. That's all it needed to be. Yeah. Because it was storytelling, not like, that's what I'm trying to say. That's a good example of really being a storyteller, not trying to be like part of this

consumer business of like streetwear. It's like, no. Like you're wearing a hat this is born. race but says LA. Like it's a very simple. It's a very simple idea that they just do very well. And I think there's a lot of genius to, you know, the late great Sponto who like thought about that with Alex where it's just like they created a brand that like, I mean, how easy is that? Like it's just, I mean, not in a bad way, but I'm like, it's such a smart idea to be like born and raised. Like that relates to anyone who connects with something like. Yeah, you, you feel

pride wearing it for lots of reasons. Exactly. And you feel like you're, you know, for many years wearing it and Sponso was like, was such a local legend. And now, you know, obviously globally recognized. But in L.A., he was someone who, who, who advocated for his community and the city. And when you live here and you see people doing that, there's something about the cultural, you know, there's a there's something about it that's warm he was nice he he was a he was someone who anyone could meet and feel like oh I know the owner but that's what I also like is like his world is so different from mine but that's what's special it's like when you went back in the day and there's ex-girl and like all these brands like that yeah like fresh drive it's like everyone's

so different and it never really had to connect you know like it connected and sometimes with music like you'd see like, you know, Kim Gordon wearing an ex-girl shirt or you thought about like, you know, um, babe on DJ Shadow. Yeah. You know, that's cool because it was like, it wasn't like defined of like what you're supposed to do. Like, fuck, you know, like you would see like, you know, Dave Grohl and a fucktat. And that was really cool.

Well, music and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, culture and clothing have always gone hand in hand. And I think that it's because a lot of creators like you, you're inspired by art in all its forms because you're an artist. So you're making your own art in the form of clothing. But you're also relating to this guy over here that's similar to you because he's a rebel like you and he's making art in the form of music. And I think that music and fashion will always go hand in hand. And when it's, you know, like at its best, it's a creative expression with a group of people that all are just admiring one another.

I think the two, yeah, and to that point, the two brands that, like, I really think about that a lot of just being like, they're doing their thing and they're like, you know, we could be very different, but like we connect is like, number one is Nepenthes. Okay. who does like engineer garments, needles, South to West State. That brand is incredible because it's multiple brands under one name, but it's like all their loves and hobbies and their identities. And I think we connect mostly with them.

And it sounds funny because it probably feels like a different category, but it's very similar. Like we have very similar price points. We're a very similar brand. We might speak more towards like a cultural side of the stuff, like movies, music, whatever, hobbies. where they're more like Japanese culture, right? Like crazy tracks.

It's a little more on the avant-garde fashion side, but not even fashion. Right. But South to West States is just because they love fishing, right? It's just like, oh, we love fly fishing. So this is a whole brand around fly fishing. So that's where we are very similar, right? And I think that's where we connect with them.

And I'm like a big admirer of that. And same with APC. Yeah. APC is one of the most important brands of all time because Jean is this crazy anarchist guy and he was like this weird protest like crazy weird guy I love him he's the best

but like now everywhere he is he's wearing like a braindad hat and they they love brain dead he wears brain dead and it's like people are like why is he so into brain dead it's like because we're very similar like we're very similar people like it's about juxtaposition not fitting in

like he's some weird rocker guy who then realized that it's all about like subtle expression too and that's what APC is. It's like this idea of like clean denim minimal and this idea of what this aesthetic is and he played it up for so long done perfectly. And I think his price points and his strategy is like it's brilliant. Like he's a brilliant person. And he was hanging out with like all the Japanese streetwear guys like Hiroshi Fujiwara like I love Hiroshi. They do collaborations with babe, all these things where it's like people are like why are they doing a babe thing? It's like because

You got the thing. That's the French version. Like, you know, people don't realize they've been around for 35 years. Yeah. So, like, he was around all that. Like, Hiroshi would do a music curation in the APC catalog back in the day. And I think that's the thing that makes me so happy is that like, if you go to, when I go to Paris, when we did our first collaboration, he met me at my showroom. He was like, I want to do a collaboration. Let's do it. And it was great. It was like, this is the best. And even when we met Kanye, he was. was like, you can do your brand through here. And it wasn't like you're successful and famous. It's like he liked him at the time. Probably still now. I don't want to say like I don't know their relationship. But like at the time, they were very one to one. Right. And that's what it was. They just made stuff when they felt like they connected with people. And that's true authentic like collaboration and relationships. But you know, those are the two brands that I'm like very obsessed with and like very into i could see that yeah they are um they're always pushing and i love a lot of like um like that brand mr freedom in um l a they just have a store in beverly but like

that brand's insane because it's like so niche and like he's just some old rockabilly guy who just makes weird american made and japanese made like workwear but it's like so focused and kind of Amongard too. Yeah. I love BAP. I mean, I started wearing BAPE in the, as soon as I could afford it. I would, you know, as you know, Josh, my brother has always been kind of a forward-thinking guy when it comes to fashion.

He always knew about everything way ahead of everyone and he always put me on everything. So I, I, I, people are always like, you guys were always ahead on brands. And I was like, nah, we were, but there's an asterisk there. my brother was always the one who showed me music and fashion and we grew up in a small place so he would go to dc or and he would get magazines and then he would find things and he was into brands early on and he would give us all of our all my ideas to this day still he puts me on to things and we share a love for finding that next brand right um he he he showed me brain dead and we both agreed we're like yeah this is cool you know and that that's our relationship we have a very the the three brothers we've

always found things and gone look what i found right um in in different ways um and art the same with art like i've been collecting art and painters for uh mostly paintings but but for 20 years and and i have art that is now would be big art but it wasn't at the time i got it because i'm not interested in buying big art. I'm always interested in finding someone new and believing like I found something special that's going to be really big. And so when it gets big, I'm always really happy. Your brand's no exception. All the brands that I'm into. When I see them and the things growing, I'm like, I fucking knew that that shit was cool. My relationship with fashion, streetwear, all that stuff, is simply, I met the guy. I like the brand and then I met the guy. And that's always been my

process is like got to meet a sponto i knew i loved born and raised and now i know why right got to meet nigo i loved babe met nigo of course i made me love bait more right certainly there's been experiences where you go like yeah i met the guy it was weird you know and and it turns you off a little bit and then you end up just focusing on things you love that's how i i work anyways um I've just been a fan. In an alternative life, I like have a brand somewhere. You know, I always imagine like what I loved about BAPE in the early 2000s when I got to meet Nigo and I was a fan of the brand and I was wearing it. And then I got to see his world and it was like, it's like Willy Wonka. You go in and it's like a big, that's how I want my house. I wanted to be full of

the things I created or the things that I'm obsessed with. And it looks like this big fun world to live in because you're constantly looking around at all this cool shit and some of it is this one-off babe thing he made or it's a piece of warhol art or it's a Beatles thing. It's just cool and you're like all the shit we like, right? One of the other things I want to say that I love when I go into the Brain Dead store is like the home goods are my favorite. When I see a cool little thing that's, you know, like that is that captures my imagination because it's like it can be larger than life and it can be, I love the rugs you guys do. The rugs are some of my favorite. That feels like it's the fun part. It's like, oh, we should do that. We should make one of those

our own way and bring it to life. And that to me is why early on, why I was such a vape fan was I got to go and I was obsessed with going to Tokyo and experiencing the culture around fashion and music was unmatched at the time. Another brand I love in Japan that I love from the early was bounty hunter. Yeah. And if you go and you meet Hekiru, he's this punk rocker who started this brand that was like he wanted to make toys before toys were, I mean, he was making these bounty hunter toys that like before the toy craze happened and the clothing and the, there was, he was, he was, you know,

it was cool to see this diligence and perfection put into an idea that. that he had and he executed on. Well, I think that, like you're saying, like with a lot of Asian culture, it was like very progressive of, like, not creating a lot of boundaries to, to, like, what you needed to do. You know what I mean?

In some ways, it was very strict and stringent, but, like, in other ways, it was very, like, free. Like, you could be a brand and let me be like, oh, I'm, you know, like, Nigo loved the Beatles. A lot of the graphics were very, like, old school, like, retro feeling. but then he also like was hanging out with James Lovell and like talking about like hip hop and electronic music and he's DJing Terriaki boys like you know it's just like it was a full body of work right and like mindset um the craziest thing is like I think the thing about it was that Japan was never like the full on most like cultural product place meaning like they weren't they didn't have the most musicians that were like exported out like they were like exported out like they were like they were.

were never like the most with like certain things like California is so important right now because they're exporting so much stuff and I think that's why California's having this renaissance with like fashion brands coming here and like the brands and like the idea of like independent brands here having their own stores is even fashion week here has become a thing where 20 years ago you couldn't you wouldn't be caught dead at a fashion show in L.A. It was a joke. Yeah. Now it's like there's people who are doing very relevant things and I think it's because it's a cultural thing. It's like,

we're surfing, skating, making music. It's just like a playground and sandbox of like what's happening in the world. And then now it's like, that's why people like, you know,

Hedys LeMayne was like out here doing St. Laurent because he's just like, I need to be around the real people. I'm going to take photos of the real surfers and like these rockers. You know what I mean? And I think it's smart.

It's like, you know, you go back to your place and you just have a mood board of like all this cool shit, but you weren't doing that cool shit. Like you have to be doing it. And sometimes the people doing the cool shit never thought about how to commodify that into a product. Right. A band now, they don't need to make music off merchandise. They need to make music and then make t-shirts to sell because that's their product to live.

Right. Right. And that's cool because you are a brand, but you're actually actively doing stuff that like, makes you you right like you're doing something you know it's like for us it's like this is what i love right like you have this whole wall of things you love that's what makes you your i don't want to use the word brand your identity right it's like cool i'm going to list the podcast like oh i love all this shit like i didn't know that and it's cool when like i remember seeing the good charlotte videos and you had like all you know the dudes that you're like all these hardcore guys yeah they're

all hardcore you know some groups who are like you know some tough dudes that we know And I'm like, you know, like Rusty and all those guys. Yeah. Like you're like, that's sick. Because, you know, you hung out these guys that like I know do other things. But like, you see in the photo, you're like, no one maybe knows that. But like, then you're like, oh, these guys are cool. Yeah.

Right? And I always say that. We were into cool stuff. You're into cool stuff. But that's the key is like you're part of a community. You're doing your work. You're doing the things that you believe in. And that's cool.

I would say if DJ Shadow wasn't wearing that bay putty, it would have not affected or jacket. it wouldn't affect both of them. Like D.Shada would just be like a DJ from the Bay Area. But he became global once like he had the backing between James LaVelle and Nigo. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like it's really interesting where it's like, you know, Bay Area is a very small market. But like when it crossed over, it's very interesting.

Like it was like, you know, it was always a place where it's progressive. And then like if you could bring things out and like repackage it. It's some of the most important stuff. Like Dan the Automator, right? With Deltron, he does the guerrillas, the biggest, you know, one of the biggest acts of 2000s. And it just took the repackaging of what he's doing with Damon Auburn to make like the biggest music. It's art. We always included just stuff that we liked and people we felt were important that we wanted to show the world when we could.

And sometimes people notice, sometimes they didn't. At the time when we were wearing brands, they weren't the biggest brands yet. But we liked them. And a lot of times we had met the founders. That's always for me. It was always like the communities, right? Like on Melrose or whatever. It's like, oh, I'm going to wear your shirt on my video.

Yeah. You know, like in your mind, like that's a big deal. And it's still important to this day because that's how things organically grow. And organic growth is the most important kind of growth. Yeah. And if you really need to grow, like if you're like, hey, I want to make millions of dollars. Cool. Find that that's your goal.

There's ways of doing it without tapping into certain things that don't need to be there. Like that's what's actually cool about what you guys did. You made pop music that had essences of punk. But it was very you. And that's what I'm trying to say is like, that's a thing. Like my Italian business partner like knows your songs because he's like, oh, that was in like this teen movie. Yeah. It's like he doesn't like punk at all.

but he knows what you guys made and like loves it. And like that's what's so interesting and cool is that like it translates to both scales. But yet your authenticity makes you like legitimate to anyone because you're like, these are real people, these are real guys. Like this is cool. I think it comes down to being comfortable in your own skin. Exactly. Learning how to be that as a life.

If you're just like doing stuff that's let's call it clownish where it's like not even like you, then it's it's not real. it really shows. But I think there's also people like, you know, when I think about like, you know, what a brand is like we, you know, one of my closest friends is this musician named Fay Webster who's like has played two nights like at the Novo. And it's incredible. Like her show's great. And then, you know. Where's she from?

She's from Atlanta. So she grew up within like this like awful records father. But she makes like pretty much like folk indie country. Cool. And like very different than what it is. but like all her friends are like father, ethereal, like all these, you know, like kind of like Elena rap guys and then like Yadi, all these people. You go to her shows and it's like all little girls for the most part.

And they just love her music and relate to it. But she's wearing like all brain dead. She loves brain dead. And like, you know, we've done collaborations and we've done projects. But it's like for us, that's not like, you know, that's not like the, you know, like, oh, I need to put this on this. guy who's like really popular. No, you're her fan. It's like I'm her fan. She likes what we do. We became really close friends. And that's all it matters. It's a natural. It's a natural

plot race. It does all matters. I do all her videos. I've done three videos for her right now, her music videos. I'm like build a thing with her. But it's like that's where it's like fun because it's like it's a friendship and it's real to us. So therefore it's real. It's not like, why are they doing this with this like singer? It's like she's incredible. And then they're like, oh, that makes sense. And then maybe that expands that to someone who would never listen to that kind of music. And for her fans, it's interesting. And not from a business perspective, but when you see them where brainded, you're like, that's cool

because that's like this weird thing that you almost feel like, you're like, whoa, maybe they're going to get into stuff that they didn't know about. Yeah, because I think that actually if you listen to, if you follow your interest and inspiration first. it always leads you to good things. And if you do things from a perspective of, I'm going to get this result. A lot of times it takes you off the path.

And if you keep going that way with just results-driven action, some people can be very good at it, but for the most part in the artistic space, fashion, music, cultural things like that, the arts. If you're not following your own interest, if you go back to like Paris, when all the artists were hanging out together and the writers and it was Dolly and it was like all these different, who was the writer.

There was all these people hanging out together and they were making art. And it was all influencing one another. That is like California, in my opinion. There's painters. There's fashion guys. There's musicians. Everyone's mixing it up. Everyone's, whether they're supporting each other publicly or they're just inspiring one another

because you're like, whoa, you just did something you wanted to do and you didn't care what anyone thought, you just did it. I'm going to do that too. And that is how we get to good art. And I think like you wear your friend's t-shirt, you do a collaboration together. That's the natural way artists, when we get in a room, we can't help ourselves. We make stuff and we come up with ideas. We make music videos and we make art and we support one another and we do things like this podcast is an expression, right? It's not a business idea. We don't monetize it.

It doesn't make any money. Not to say it wouldn't be valuable one day. I think all good art and the documentation of good art is valuable in some way for the culture, for the future. So I like to think that at the end of a few years of this, we have thousands of hours of artists talking about what they do, how they do it, and at the time they were doing it. So I think there's a historical representation of this medium and the reason we film it is, one, people listening that aren't necessarily artists yet, or maybe they are artists at the beginning of their journey, or maybe they're an artist who struggles because they live in an environment that isn't full of artists.

hopefully they're hearing insights and ideas that they can take and carry with them and find their way because I think that the most important thing for culture is art and the more artists the better I'm gonna'amena and like my music, my hair can't change with me and has to be able to be my rhythm for so potion nine,

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At this point in your life, what do you think is like the most important part of like your process? Like,

what are you the most like inspired to do? Because I know you guys are doing the magazines and like yeah, the podcast.

You know, like what do you find? is like your kind of bodywork into this phase of your life. The most important thing in my life when it relates to art and then decisions around what we're going to work on because we there's no shortage of opportunity to work on things. The most important thing is how I feel. If it excites me and it feels like a yes, I know right away. And so that's the gold.

It's hard to find, right? when you've seen a lot and you've seen you've been at the beginning of a lot of brands you certainly there's a lot of brands that that people are trying to start and for the most part you're kind of like you know it's not special doesn't feel special to me right I'm not going to tell you that it's not special but so when you find another one like when I when I like your brand I was like okay yeah now we're talking this feels special right I tend to agree with you on all the decisions you make on all the little things, right? So you find your thing. It can be the same with music, the same with painting when you find an artist you love. And you're like, wow, I love all

his paintings, right? Some I like more than others, but I like them all. I want to hang one on my wall. I want to wear the t-shirt, right? I wear, I have a bunch of brain dead t-shirts. I like to wear them. They make, I didn't even play magic and I got the magic t-shirt because I thought it was cool. Yeah, yeah. I had friends who played and it was, it was nostalgic for me, you know? Um, so feeling is number one. And then once the, I always say like make the art in the studio and then we'll figure out the commerce after we make the art. So some stuff you can sell.

Some stuff isn't meant to sell. It's meant to just have one and you go, no one can have this. I made this. You know, so, so, um, as I've gotten older and I, I hung around the music business long enough, I started looking at scale. Can we scale something? And could we scale something that would do good? Could we do something that would help artists not hurt them? Because I also believe that like most of the time we limit ourselves to, to what we can achieve.

And I wanted and I felt that I had done that always for myself. And I wanted to look at our ideas and go like, which ones do we think we could build into something that could, you know, exist on the globe. globe and interact with a billion people out of the eight billion people on the planet. Like, is there something at that scale? And that's just a question I have, right? So we have this live stream platform, VEPS, and I have no doubt that the future of live music is accessibility for everyone on the globe. So, and if we build a platform where hundreds of millions of people that otherwise wouldn't be able to see that tour because of lots of reasons, not just location. So it's not just a village in India or a place in South America that doesn't get tours, but it's the person who can't actually leave their house for a bunch of reasons.

People that can't afford to go to concerts. More people don't go to concerts than do. We think we are living in a culture where it's normal for people to go to concerts. But I'm saying more people on the globe don't go to concerts. They don't have access. And so if we built access in a way that's scalable and sustainable and cost effective because we're working in different markets at different price points because we want it to be affordable.

But I think that's an interesting thing. Do you find that what you do because you've been successful and certain ways you what's cool is like if you're a massive record label right like you have so much to lose like it's just like everything's a gamble or you just throw like darts at the board and like you know you're just burning cash because like you have like one will hit one will be in your yeah we'll see what sticks right but like it's a numbers game yeah the key i almost feel like with you and i always think about this too is like how do you grow things from our perspective because like we have no skin in the game that's like it's like yeah you are

successful but you're also like you know you don't really need to do it you know i mean but you also can offer the same advice to like a musician or like a project without the like crazy uh bandwidth that it would take right or like the hoops that you have to jump with for even a big company to even make that option right yeah or like get through a old mindset where i feel like you it's like hey i'm going to manage this person or like i'm going to do this thing but it doesn't have to be like the other things because I can do it my way and at least try it. If it doesn't work, it's all good. That's not my main thing.

You know what I mean? It's just like I just feel like you have that ability at your level where you can try and fail. Exactly. Or at least give the advice of what you've learned without like someone tainting that advice because it will help them down the line. You know what I mean? It's like you probably have like a way where it's like, hey, look it. I can help you do this to this level.

It doesn't need to be here. It can just at least get to here. Do you think that's like something that you kind of feel in your heart where you're, or like you're kind of gut where it's like, hey, I know how to run this magazine where it needs to be. Like I don't need to be the Rolling Stones, but I can be here and I feel very comfortable. Resources are a thing, right? So if you have the resources and you can fail at something without it sinking your ship, you have a lot more freedom to, I think, be less afraid.

And I think with like alternative press is a great example. The whole experiment there was just not let's get a magazine and control it. It's more what would it be like? Because I have this theory that artists are the key to the culture and that artists create billions and billions of of value that they don't even participate in in the world by how they dress, what they say. And it's why you have this. It's why artists are usually the key pieces to marketing campaigns. These days, I find that the things we work on are just out of being compelled to do it

and passionate about what we're doing and without really knowing what's going to come from it. This shows a great example. I have no idea where this show goes. know is that the conversations get more interesting and the people listening expressed that they get something from it and i think that's really important is music has always been a source of inspiration for people it's been a source of of support and i think the biggest for me was support as a teenager i had a rough life and music was my everything and then going on to being in a band that i think really gave me a life. And I look at my wife. I look at my kids. I look at my life. I go,

that's all because of that band. That's why that's sacred ground for me. It's why I love those guys. We've been together since high school and they gave me a life. And it's a life where I get to do things I'm interested in and I'm never bored every day. I'm like having this conversation with a guy who is, it's one of my favorite brands. So that for me is special. And if it's special to me, I think it'll be special to someone else. And even if it was just five people, there's something about that that's cool to me. Because once you've done mass and you've had that experience, great. I always tell everyone, go have it, go do it. But like you'll get back to little and you'll want to do special and you'll want to do limited because it's not about, you don't

do a limited run or something because you want to exclude people. You do it because it's like this fun idea that I hold something that no one else has. It's something about that. And then you do mass because you want everyone to be able to participate. And there's like a balance to that, right? And it's also an expression. I think it's also scalability of like it's all in the same context or like in the same world, but just depends what, you know, like everything has to be like up and down. Like it fluctuates of like importance. You can't just do only one thing because it becomes hollow. And I think that's the key of what we're saying with this whole conversation is like the core of something is the core you think of the smallest thing is the core of like anything right then just builds around the body and you have to

build the body to then even have the core yep right so i think that's the main thing is like it's it's it's um it's always a tricky subject and like i think what i love about what you guys have done you know when i talk to josh it's just like you guys have like supported a system that you guys have like supported a system that has been around, but maybe hasn't always been seen as like, you know, oh, this thing's like middle ground. Like, we don't need alternative music anymore. Like hip hop's the biggest thing or whatever it is, right? Like maybe hip hop is alternative now or like a form of it.

But like it's like we need to do this because we're making way more money off this. It's like you could be like, okay, well, I'll take that little pie. And that's good enough for me. Right. Like, and I always see that as my thing where it's like, hey, how do you take this thing that's not like already there and make it something cool or interesting. It doesn't have to be like, oh, I'm going to monetize on this because it's like the biggest thing right now.

And you have your moments. You have your hits where you're like, oh, I'm glad that everybody agrees that this thing that I'm doing is cool. But then you have more moments that are not those, that like the band wave thing with all the bands and coming back and lots of people wanting to do bands. And everyone's like, are you guys going to do something? I'm like, we've been doing something.

We've been building a music company that supports. predominantly it's bands, but it's, that sounds very specific. It's not. It's a very diverse group of artists. We have some, all different kinds of artists. If you look at like bad omens, look at Idris, look at Chase Atlantic, you look at Bob Villan over in the UK, architects, you have all these different bands, but they're all making organic music. That's how we see it. It's like, you know that kid started in his bedroom or his garage. It wasn't a, a like copy paste idea. It was someone trying to create art.

That's what we look for. And we've been here doing that and that's what excites us. And if the wave goes down, we'll still be here doing that because I think there's something about being in your garage and making this little thing and then showing someone and go on, check it out. I mean, I'm not sure if you know our relationship with I dress. We've known him since he moved out to LA. I was a big fan of his.

And then like, he's one of my favorite artists of all time. Yeah, it's crazy. But like the funniest thing is there's so many times he's like, he like we just put on shows and he'd just play him. Yeah. Like I remember we were in Japan in like 2019 and I was like, okay, I'm going to DJ.

I just was out there. I'm like, do you just want to play? He brought his guitar in. He plugged in all the shit. It didn't work. And he's like, it's all good. Like he just, he played like one song.

It's like fucked up sounding and he's like, cool, we'll just hang out. And it's like this thing that. he's just always down no matter what he was doing because he's a real artist he's a real person like he's just a real one like and i think that was the coolest part was like you know like it was from a different world but it's the same it's the same mentality the same ethos of like how you do things there's never like money ever like transferred from projects we've were done we've done other projects that have had money transferred but at the end of the day he's always been the same person of how he wants to activate his things and seeing his success is really

special because like, you know, he has done stuff, learn from mistakes, you know, got success. And that's a really cool thing. Well, I just is the perfect example of a real artist. He makes art. He's not thinking, oh, this will be big. That's not even. I just, if he feels it, he does it. If he doesn't, he doesn't.

He's the genuine article. That is hard to emulate because it takes balls to be yourself. He's not successful because he wants to be the most famous person in the world. He's successful because he wants to take care of his family. And then if he feels it, he does it. And if he doesn't, it's not like it's like, no, I don't fuck with that. It's more like, yeah, I don't really, that's not really me. And like that's as simple as that.

And you can always trust that like if Idris is there, he wants to be there. because he's happy to be at home with his wife and kid making some music and like people could learn from that example it's that core value of like is this me or is it not and like that's what i learned from idris and that that's the effect he's had on me is like making the choices that are right for me and if they're not it's just not me it's like and i think that's where a lot of artists like they get confused and spun around because they're like they think they should be doing everything yeah i just didn't try to keep up with anyone he's He's just running in his own lane, doing Idris. So I think that also says a lot about your brand that artists like that are the ones who are like advocating by just being a part of your culture and you're a part of their culture. But I'm Stoogs you came in. Oh, thank you. Thanks for being here.

Dude, this is incredible. I'll be, I'll be wearing the t-shirts for a very long time. Thank you, man. Yeah. I can't wait to see what you guys do next. Thank you, man. Any big stuff coming up? You want to, you want to.

It's our tenure next year. Awesome. So we're just preparing that finishing off this year. You know, like for me, it's like, you know, we're trying to grow into our next phase of like, like you said, we're growing our product to be very special. And I think some projects for next year will be really awesome to like showcase. But there's always going to be the same, you know, it's the same but different, right? Like it's always like the next thing that we're trying to expand in and like build upon. Yeah.

I mean. But it's great. We're so grateful to be around and my team's amazing. So I'm just happy. Congrats. Thank you. And good luck. Thank you, man. Thanks, bro. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of artist friendly. If you really liked it, you can follow, like, subscribe to the show, anywhere you listen to podcast, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support and we'll see you next time.