Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Lainey Wilson

Episode Date: August 28, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Lainey Wilson. Over the past decade, Wilson has blossomed into a bonafide country star. The Southern-bred singer has written tracks with Luke Combs, made her acting debut in Yellowstone (as well as had her songs featured on its soundtrack), and devised her own genre, “bell bottom country.” The sound combines Southern rock, soul, and a distinctly Nashvillian POV, where she now resides. That’s best heard on her latest album, Whirlwind, which continues to play with the boundaries of her sound and includes a wistful duet with Miranda Lambert. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'll be talking to multi-platinum Grammy Award-winning country singer-songwriter Lainey Wilson, whose new album, World Win is out now, and she's headlining, Country's Cool Again tour, which will wrap up in November. Let's go. Let's go. If that's my kind, I don't want no bad times, I don't want to have bad.

You have a very nice, like, drawl. It's nice. It's a drawl. It's charming. It's a draw. Yeah. It's nice. Especially, you know, and you're a country singer.

So that's kind of the experience you want to have. That's right. When you meet a country singer, you're like, oh, it's, like, it's great. Yeah. No, it's, uh, actually when I moved to Nashville, I thought I was, like, moving there to meet a lot of people who sounded like me that were going to be doing country music. It was different. I was, like New York, might as well be New York.

Fish out of water. Yeah. Do you live in. Nashville now? Yeah, I've been there 13 years. Do you love it? I love it. I mean, it's kicked my butt quite a few times. Yeah. I've been there, like I said, 13 years since 2011, but it's awesome because I've met my people. Yeah, and you get to do what you love. That's it. Like, so many creative people that have just, like, moved there for the same reason. Yeah. It's a good town. Have you spent much time in Nashville? Yeah, I have. My older brother lives there. I did not know he lives there. Yeah,

my brother Josh. Yep. He lives in Franklin. Love it. Yeah. Him and his wife and he has a daughter and we have an office there for our music company. So I go to Nashville a few times a year. Okay. But I've been there over the years a ton because every now and then I would go down there to like write songs and then a lot of my friends live down there. It's funny because when you go back to Maryland and people are like, why don't you live here still? And you're like, well, I love it here, but I can't do what I love here. You know? And so how do I like, what do I choose? a place I love or a thing I love that I felt like the thing you are, music. 100%.

You have to go where the music is. That's right. And for me, it's more about like the people in my town rather than the town. My town is nothing but cornfields and not even a stoplight. We have a caution light. And that was a big deal to get one of those. We're like, we got our caution light. Finally.

Yeah. But I'm very proud of where I come from. Yeah. And I can feel that. Like I am who I am because of the place. that raised me. Yeah, it's the fabric. But there is nothing like meeting people and I guess you could say like kind of like chasing something together with somebody. Yeah, like you go to where there's a bunch of other dreamers and you're dreaming about this thing and it's elusive at first. But then you're there and you

start to meet people and you're like, oh, it's actually attainable. It's not like, it's not magic. No. You can work really hard and get somewhere. That's right. With your dream, whether, you know, And I always think a lot of times we're sold in music and in entertainment like it's this magic thing and this guy's got to wave a wand. I wish. And you don't realize like it's kind of like any other business. You have to be good at it. For sure. You have to work really hard.

And you have to try a bunch of days in a row and then just keep doing that for many, many years. And then like you start seeing, oh, I'm getting somewhere. That's right. And of course, like, you could say like, oh, my big break. but there are no real big breaks. It's like a bunch of little breaks. Even if you meet the guy and you get the thing and you sign the record deal

or you get the first publishing deal or this, you still have to show up. It still does not mean anything. It doesn't mean anything. Not a thing. It's like, I mean, when you're 16, you're like, if I could just get that car. Yeah.

If I could just get the boyfriend, if I could just, you know, get a degree. If I could just get my first guitar. I mean, it just like goes on and on and on. You're like, you don't think about, oh, now I need to get the job, put gas in the car. And then I'll drive the car to the job and I'll do the job.

And it's like, you don't think about the complexity and the layers of what it actually means to have a life. Yeah. And too many aspiring artists, right? I'll call them artists not to disrespect them. Yeah. But they're aspiring to become artists that can do what you do. And they look at you and they go, that must be nice.

You're like, actually, sometimes it's not that nice. That's right. It's right. It is hard. And what I've realized is like my struggles that I had in 2011 when I moved to town. When I was living in a little camper trailer, I lived in that thing for three years. You did? Oh, yeah.

Did you rent it from someone? No, I bought it from Louisiana and hauled it to Nashville. Entrepreneur. Parked it down. Yeah. No one can take that. No. And what I've realized is, you know, even like seven years after that is when I finally got a

publishing deal because I would consider myself a songwriter before an artist. And then year eight got a record deal. it still did not mean anything. It just means that, all right, you've been, like, preparing for the race. You just entered it, and now you're about to run it. And that just continues. But that's also the cool thing about this business, too, is it keeps you on your toes. And it keeps you living a life where you have things to write about.

That's it. There's a lot of pain in it, a lot of suffering, a lot of joy, highs, lows. I was watching the Olympics, and I was watching all these athletes that train their whole life to not get a medal. And just for a few seconds. So it's, yeah. You know, we're looking at everyone that's like the first place, second place, third place. And there's all these other ones that, like, train their whole life. Their whole life.

And I thought, I always bring things back to art and music because I don't think people contextualize what it took to get that record made the life you had to live to write that song. That's right. All the things that go into it. Are you excited about your new record? I'm partial, but I'm very pumped. I mean, we were working on this thing before the other one came out a couple years ago. And, I mean, the past couple years of my life has been changing, like, constantly, daily. And we just had to kind of rise to the occasion with everything.

And what I realize is I think I might do a little bit better under pressure. Yeah. Because I do think this stuff is the best stuff that I've done so far. And my band got to be a part of it. And you can hear a lot of their influences and their background. Yeah, the music is good. Thank you. Jay Joyce.

He's mad scientist. It's interesting. It really does feel like that on the record. It feels like a band's playing. I didn't know that. Yeah. Now that you tell me. Yeah, I mean, my guitar player comes from like a punk background. And then you've got some of them come from funk, jazz, blues, rock. Like, you name it, a little bit of everything. Yeah. The record is very musical. I'll take that. It's really got some, like, musical layers to it. Thank you. It doesn't sound like a producer made a track and then you wrote on it. You know what I mean?

It's so good to hear that. Yeah. No, I love working with Jay Joyce because I feel like, well, first of all, before we even decided to work together years ago, he, like, took the time to really get to know me. And like my personality and my background, my story. And I think that has kind of been the special sauce. That's what kind of makes our relationship in this record specifically. Just feel a little bit different. It's really good.

Thank you. I'm glad. That means a lot coming from you. Really? Yes. Thank you. your opinion. It's really good. I love country music. So I listen with a very, I don't say critical ear, but I've been making records a long time. So I hear stuff on records. And when I hear a really

musically rich record, it's refreshing. For sure. And I can get down with like a pop track and all that. Any, you know, every song's different. But every now and then you'll hear some music. And you can hear it live. You can, you can hear the sounds. It sounds like, oh, that now I'd go see that live. Well, and that's what we were trying to make sure happened, because, I mean, the past couple years since we put out our last record, we played hundreds of shows. There's really no telling how many that we have actually played. And so we have seen what works, what don't. And I went in there and I just said, like, I need some thump, whatever that means. They're like, what do you mean?

I'm like, I'm not going to know what it is until I hear it. And I think we found it. I think it's almost like we were all on the same page about what was missing from our live show. without really even talking about it. It happens when you do that together. You live together for a few years out there on the road. That's right. You just kind of organically.

That's why touring is so important in development. That's right. It is. We've just found it along the way. Yeah. And we'll keep on finding it. Yeah, I was talking to artists the other day, and they were like, what should I do?

And I was like, you're playing all these shows. That's what you should do. That's right. Go out and play. Because you also, like, you don't realize it, but when you're on the stage, you are actually like forming. So you've accomplished a lot and it's been hard work.

But that's what it means to be a great artist. It means to have to work really hard for however long and everyone's journey is different. But whenever I see any artist doing well and you kind of know who's been at it or whatever, but you know hard work has gone into that, right? And then you see people who push it further and they get a better live show and they take it. And there's different levels that you can. never stop growing. But while you're out there, I think you're kind of like learning, you're watching people's faces and you're like seeing their reactions. And you're seeing when you hit a chord on a

song and open a song up, you start to see the same thing every night. You're like, oh, when we play that song, like immediately everyone smiles and everyone, you start to like notice. And that informs the stadium show one day. That's right. When you put that set together, it's thousands of hours and minutes and words and feelings that you're designing. I think you're one of those like stadium country acts. Like it's it's, fingers crossed. I just think so. I think like there's there's a few that could do it and fill the space. And I think you have the personality. I think you have the songs. And I think you have the ability to accept it. Some people, it's hard for them to accept when they get to certain levels, right? You have to kind of hold it. Oh, yes. And too like, I mean,

it sounds cliche or whatever you want to call it, but like, I've always known I was going to do this, even when I was nine years old, when I wrote my first song and my parents took me to Nashville for the first time. They knew it too. They knew it. Yeah. And so they helped do anything they could to like encourage me and lift me up and it makes me sad to know that, you know, a lot of kids who have dreams like I did, they don't have that. Yeah, it falls on like deaf years. That's right. Yeah. But I think kids know a lot more than you give them credit, you know. And I do too. I really do. I think like you should listen to your kid when they say that they want to learn how to play the guitar. Yeah.

Because you just never know. And yeah, it's been a wild journey. But the truth is, I just don't know how to do anything else. Yeah. This is it. There's been no plan B for me. Yeah. Me too. It's like, this is it. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel that. And it's nice. That's the only way to be in my opinion. If I would have had a plan B, I don't think things would be looking like they look right now.

Yeah. I know that. Yeah, if there's a door, there's an exit. I mean, I definitely should have packed it up and went home a few times. Yeah. What do you think the hardest period of your career has been? Would you say it's the early stages, or would you say it's the stress and the pressure of success? So when I got to Nashville, there was a guy from my hometown.

His name is Jerry Caput. And he's actually the one that taught my daddy how to play guitar. And in the late 70s, he wanted to move to Nashville and be. a producer, songwriter. And my grandfather, my daddy's daddy, gave him a little bit of money to help him move to Nashville to get started. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. And he kind of became my mentor. Like every time he would come home to Baskin to see his mama, he'd stop by my house at nine years old and listened to the songs I was writing and be like, hey, you know, if you're writing about this blue truck, like, how fast does the truck go? Like, you know, how does it make you feel

and this and that and just giving me pointers and really kind of taught me how to write a song? years later, because he remembered what my grandpa did for him, he let me park my camper in his studio parking lot for free. Oh, wow. So it's crazy to see, like, what comes around full circle, you know, like what my granddaddy did for him, even though he's been gone, you know, it's still just kind of comes around. So, long story short, I was living in my camper. He and I, we wrote music together for three years, just like every single day. I'd go over to the studio. We'd write, just write, right, right, right, right, right. and he got sick and he died.

And it was kind of a, it was a shock to everybody. And I had to start over from square one. And so for me, it's been a lot of moments like that where I've had to like, I felt like, okay, I've got something going. Yeah, it's cooking. It's cooking. And then it kind of gets like, you know, taken away. And then I have to start over and switch gears and figure out a different way.

But I think that's another part of this business is just like coming up on a bunch of roadblocks and to figure out how the hell do you get around it, you know? And so that was definitely like a dark time in my life because when you write 300 plus songs with somebody, you know, you become really close. And you got history, they about history with your family. And there's something really nice about that.

Yeah. So that was really hard. And during that time, too, I was dating a boy who got a girl pregnant. Ooh, while he was dating you. Oh, my God. These boys. It was all happening at the same time.

I was like, when it rains, it pours. Oh, my God. That's kind of heartbreaking, too. Oh, yeah, but I'm telling me, I learned how to, like, just embrace the heartbreak because I'm like, is this happening to me? Like, am I getting punked? Yeah. Is it happening just so I can have something to write about?

Yeah. But, and too, like now I'm learning how to adjust with my life changing. Yeah, it's a lot of pressure. It is a lot of pressure. And then you wonder why you're anxious. You know what I mean? And then you're like... I feel like I need to pay you for this therapy session. You got VMO. No, but, no, listen, therapy is the thing that saved me because through my 20s, my whole 20s,

I was going through this amazing career, which I'm super grateful for. And it has nothing to do with the fans or any of that. Certainly, though, you don't want to let them down or upset them. But at the end of the day, you're going, you're a human being and you're going through this experience and you're trying to, like, grow. I know. and maybe like find out who you are as well. You're trying to figure life out. And you have this success that you don't want to be ungrateful for.

So you're trying to hold that and keep up with it and make everybody happy. Then you have these weird outside sources and people that have nothing to do with you, didn't know who you were a year ago, kind of intruding in. And then you're dealing with all that and you get a little anxious. And then you become a little edgy and you're like when I'm anxious, I'm very unpleasant to be around. Same. And also, I shut down. I shut down.

I locked myself in the back of the bus. I'm like, I don't want to talk to anybody. I don't see anybody. Yeah. And I have to consider myself a people person. So do I. But I'm going to tell you what, when I get to eat up with that anxiety, it can take you down. Yeah, and I'm like, everything gets on my nerves.

And then my brother, thank God. I'll be like, yo, I think you're anxious, dude. Why don't you go, like, blow off some steam? Yeah. Whatever. Same. We'll, like, look out for yourself. But through my 20s, I had to, like, arrive to the outside.

idea that I was even anxious. I know. I didn't know. Well, first of all, your body has been used to that feeling for so long. Yeah. And stress, constant stress. And so I'm not here going like, poor me. I think all of us, I think most successful people that I've worked really hard for it are never poor me, but you're still experiencing the stress of the moment of whatever you're and when I started going to therapy, that's when I realized like, oh, I can unpack this stuff and live with it. And some of it I can get rid of, but I can just like breathe a little bit.

That's right. And go like, oh, none of it's permanent. No. Just have to work through it. And to where I grew up, I mean, therapy was not talked about. No, me, me either. You're like, if you go to therapy,

that's some kind of like taboo. That's why it took me until I was like 31 to go to therapy. That's right. Or 32. Now I've been in therapy for like 13 years. Amazing. I know. I fucking love it.

I know. My kids hate it. because I'm like, how do you feel about that? Do you want to talk about it? And they're like, dad, I don't need therapy right now. Okay, I'm just saying, if you want to talk about it. You know. I love it.

It's important. It is important. I mean, I'm actually teaching my parents a lot about it. Yeah. You know, I'm like, y'all could use a little bit of therapy. I just talk to someone. That's it. You know, there's a lot of forms of therapy, too.

You don't have to go sit with a therapist. For me, I do traditional therapy, but also, like, I work out. out. That's right. Or make music. That's right. It all kind of works together, but you've got to take care of yourself. And I'm learning that. Yeah. Because there's been moments where I haven't really taken care of myself. I've just been like doing whatever I got to do to get through it. And I want to give 190 percent. You know, I want to like set myself up for success and nobody's harder on you than you. Yeah. You know, and that's true. I'm trying to make sure that. I'm trying to make sure that. that I'm taking the time to be able to lay down at night and be proud of what happened.

I hope you are. I am. You should be. I'm doing a lot better with the whole balance thing. But for so long. Balance. It was like I just, I didn't have anything and no opportunities and they kind of all came at once. Things are a little different than they even were six months ago.

And then those six months, it's what you say no to now doesn't even really come into play until six months from now. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So we're figuring it out. That's all you can do. Yeah. But balance is important.

Yeah. And then like there are some times where you have to remind yourself like, oh, I'm in a busy season. Yes. And there's nothing I can do about it right now. Dude, I needed to hear this today. And then I know on the other side of this busy season, I got to find a moment. That's right. To reflect on that.

Let's watch the game tape. Maybe there's some stuff we can do more efficiently. Because it can just pass you by. Mm-hmm. And then it's just gone. It's gone. It's gone. You'll even remember it.

I know. And I want to remember these days. Yeah. I work too damn hard to not remember it. It's funny, isn't it? Oh my gosh. It's a dozy. It was more fun dreaming about it sometimes

because when you're on the ride and it's going fast, you're just trying to stay conscious and do a good job and do your job and do all the things and make everybody, you know, you're with your fans, you want them to feel the gratitude you have, you want them to feel the love you have, and they're showing you the love. So you're not even as present as you could be if you were just with one friend and you were sitting there having coffee and you could talk about things.

When you're in it, it just goes so fast and you're like, it's a little overwhelming. Absolutely. And then you get on the other side of it and you're like, I don't actually even remember what we did this weekend because we did so much. I know. And too, like, I know you're not supposed to like, you know, worry about the future and all this. But like for us at times, like you have to be prepared for whatever it is that's happening next week. I get a sense from you that you take a lot of pride in your live show, your performances. So you're preparing for that as well.

And you want to make that perfect, which will never be perfect. And another thing I'm learning about that is actually something that Melissa Etheridge shared with me during Grammy Week this week. She told me about the 85% rule. Oh, tell me about it. I wrote it down. I was like, I need to remember this. But she said for years, like, she was. would get on stage and feel like she needed to like bleed out on stage and like leave it all

out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like killing herself to just like make people feel something. And then she learned about this 85% rule where she's just saying you're leaving yourself a little bit of room to not set yourself up for just walking off stage and feeling like defeated like you let yourself down. And I tried to kind of shift my mindset a little bit because everybody else thinks you're given 100%.

Yeah, yeah. You know? But when you do leave yourself a little bit of that grace, it makes a big difference. Actually, that's a good rule for life. I like it. I like it, too. I want to interview you. I would love that.

I really do. Like, I sit here and I answer all these questions about myself and I'm like, dang, I want to ask him some questions. Well, that's the flow of the show. Okay. I do want to ask you just like sit down and getting to know you that how do you create more balance? And like, what are some of the things that you do to try to like, get your mind right so you can do your job your best. That's a really good question.

I think we have to build a life we want to live in. I like that. So we have to take the time the same way you would if you were building a house. You have to take the time with the details to make sure that you're getting everything right. Wow. And then let yourself go at the pace that you need to go at. And in some places, if you have to be opportunistic because the opportunity is too great, like when your music career, right, when you're having success.

So you're having success after success after success. And they all compound. So they build, right? You can't not look after that. So you have to compartmentalize everything so that you can get back to it. Which kind of makes you feel like a crazy person at times. It does. It does.

The other thing that people forget is once we learn something, thing we don't have to learn it again. I like that. So you are learning how to do what you're doing with each new experience, with each record, you're going to each level and you're getting acclimated to that. Once you get acclimated, hopefully you keep rising. But you don't have to get acclimated to any of those other levels. And it's not as scary the next time around. It's not as scary. And you're going to meet other people and you're going to be able to more quickly identify where they're at. Whether or not they know where they're at, you'll more likely be able to help some young person or some other artists, right? I feel like I'm starting to kind of like, I'm able to kind of

zoom out a little bit more. And I have like a little more discernment about where things are than I did last year. Yeah. And you got wisdom. You have people who work hard and don't have as much talent, but they have success because they work really hard. Then you have people who are really talented and they don't work that hard. That's right. And then you have people who are really talented and they don't work that hard. That's right. And then you have people who are talented and smart and they work hard. So for me, I always try to remember to trust talent and nurture it, work hard, and try to be smart, right? Do you think that you had all this wisdom years ago when y'all were like kicking off?

Not at all. This is stuff that you've just picked up along the way. I think I unpacked it all in my 30s and that's when I started doing the other things that all of that informed, like all my businesses. It informed all my artist's career and formed my businesses. And then I realized all artists are entrepreneurs. We're all building shops. We want people to come to the shop and have a good experience, you know, and they're all going to be subtly different.

So I try to tell other artists to look at themselves that way. Doesn't mean you have to be like a businessman or whatever. Be yourself, but like remember what you're doing. You're running a brand. You're running a marketing agency. You're running a record label. You're actually doing all this, whether you think you are or you're not. What we get while we have the artist's career is like some kind of like master's degree

if we went to a college or something. On the other side of it, we would have like a master's in something. Yeah. You know, but it's not necessarily looked at that way. So we don't actually get a piece of paper. But we do get that education if we have our eyes open and we don't zonk out. You know, some artists, you know, I feel for them. But like I've, over the last like three decades, I've seen people just like,

zonk out. And I think there's times I have zonked out. Me too. And then came back to life. And then I was zonk out. But I feel like I'm, you know, getting my bearings. I feel like you are. When I sit with you. I'm listening. Because I want to, I want to learn and grow. And like, when I leave here, I'll probably be typing down a lot of stuff that you're saying because it's important to me because I look at people who have had longevity and they've done it right. And I want that. I want to be able to set myself up for success and like even i think back to the way that i was raised and like my daddy's a farmer and he would always remind us that why he wasn't just working for himself yeah he was working for us and our kids and and their kids and so that's the mentality that i have and that's what you do yeah you work

yeah every person needs to work that's right we all have to do something that's like a productive world the people that become outside of society and they start putting that energy into bad are people who don't have something to do. And so the best kind of work is work that you love. That's it. Because a lot of people have to go to a job that they don't love. They hate. Yeah.

And they still do it because they have a reason. And that's the other best thing you can have is a reason to work. That's right. And when it's not really about you. Yeah. It's about my dad who I wasn't very close to, but I always respected him because he worked really hard. One of my big reasons in the early stages of my career was that

I was doing something that was way easier than what he was doing. And so I felt obligated to do it, you know, because it just seemed like a joke compared to, like, the work he did, you know, he's a... I get that. So the idea that music or that any of this is, like, not serious and that we're not, that we don't care about what we do, and it's like, whatever is wrong, that we should care about what we do. We should care about the details.

Right. And then I also think for life is building a life you want to live in. I think you said the word balance. I think finding your opportunities to have that balance where you take care of when you can, right? And you'll have different moments where you can. But take care of yourself, take care of your health, and then take care of your personal life. I was lucky I got to build a family in my 30s. I had just spent like 12 or 13 years like on them.

There was not room for anything else. I missed weddings. I missed birthdays. I missed everything. I was just always on the road. And at the time, that's what I had to do. That's right.

That provided me the opportunity to slow it down in my 30s and find some balance and build a life with someone. And I found more fulfillment out of that. And I didn't realize that was possible. Yeah. because I thought that the dream of like the platinum records and tours and all the stuff, I thought that was going to be the most fulfilling thing I could do and the most valuable thing I could do. There's a ton of value in it, but actually taking the time to put the family first when I got to,

I got really lucky I felt like. And I see other people doing it really well too. And they're actually like touring and building the family. Like everybody has a version of it. I see the people who try. For sure. They build some version of it. And some of them are a stadium guy,

playing stadiums and going home to their family. Everybody has a version of it. But I think you have to just want it and then try. Yeah. And figure out what that version is. So you're going to have to figure out what it means for you to find that balance as you grow. Yeah.

And you will because you'll try. Because everyone is like, how do you do that? And I always just say, Just try. Just try and then try again. Yep. And then that work, that didn't. Get rid of that.

Do the thing that works. Try something else. And then you start, like, building some momentum in, like, that dance. Mm-hmm. And you also, your capacity grows as you stay in this thing. Yeah. And your capabilities grow. And you get quicker on some things that were slower before.

And I feel that, too. You know, time shifts because you're like, okay, maybe it took six months to make a record or three months to make a record. There is a version of. of you getting to a place where, like, you know exactly how you make a record and the time starts to become a little bit, like, more focused. Yeah. But that's all just, like, record after record. Well, I feel like for this record, for me, especially, I mean, you know how they say

you've got your whole life to write your first one. Yeah. With this, I realize that there are so many different parts of this job now, everything from just, like, brand partnerships and appearances and... What's your merch look like? Yeah, I mean... This and that. Like, just so many different things, but there was not as much time for me to write 300 songs or whatever to get the, you know, 12 or 14 that I was doing. And so I had to really get focused.

Yeah, because I don't think you need to write 300 songs now. But I know. And I think then I did. Yeah, because you were learning how to do it. Yep. Now you know a good song. Yeah. And you. And now I know too. I mean, I just know whether I want to share that message or not. Yeah. You know with probably within. 30 minutes of writing a song where you're like, yeah, this one's, this is, we got one here. Let's go.

Let's finish it. We don't have time to waste. And I'm kind of getting to the place where I'm just like, once I start getting back to writing and stuff, I really liked the way that we did this record by just like diving in, knowing what we were trying to do and everything. I'm not going to say all of the time has been wasted. But I'm definitely moving forward, not going to be wasting time. Yeah.

But all that time goes into the bank of experience. Yep. And so it's not lost. Yeah, I feel that. Because you call on it in different spots. And you never have to go back and waste it again. That's why it's not a waste. You know what I mean?

That's what I think. How old were you when you started writing? 15. Yeah. This guy at our church gave us a guitar and a bass. And we were like the little poor kids. People would give us stuff. Then we got interested in music from that.

And then we started trying to learn. And then we started listening to music. you come from a musical family? No. Not at all. No, no one would even know how is, except for maybe church. Yeah. There was a lot of music in church. And we were only allowed to listen to Christian music. Yeah. So it was like very, we were like sneaking. Our God is an awesome. He raids from heaven. From heaven, love. Power and love. Our God isn't awesome. I know the sign. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I know that one. That's a classic. Church of God. So then we started like sneaking cassette tapes in

listening to like the Beastie Boys and the 90s was amazing for like good records Allison Chains and all this like great music and then we started trying to write songs and then that was it we started Good Charlotte

and we were I think we just turned in 16 And so how old were you when you got your record deal? We got our record deal We were 20 20. Yeah. We left home 17, 18, playing like bars and stuff around like Baltimore, D.C., Annapolis. And we would play any bar.

We had an acoustic guitar by then working like two jobs, doing anything because we were on our own. And it had to have come to y'all pretty natural, though. We worked really hard at it. Yeah. Every waking hour that we weren't working a job to pay. You were obsessed with it. Just like, how do you make? How do you get a recording?

Back then there was like papers with like classified listings of like studio time. And there was a magazine called The Musician's Guide to Touring and Promotion. And it had all the record labels, clubs. It was like a big directory of like labels and clubs and publishing companies in the music business. We made a demo and then we got my sister to take like pictures of us. And we wrote up like a press release or a buy. And we put together like what we read books like press kits and we would send them all out. And we would just be doing that nonstop.

Hundreds of them. And just like anywhere we could send it. And we were just like we were managing ourselves, you know. And just like it was the 90s. So it was all like really slow. Yeah. Like you'd get a written reply. But there's also numbers.

So we were calling the record labels. It was wild. So I'm Anna Mena. And like my music, my cabello can't come back. to be able to be able to continue my rhythm. For so, potion 9, of Sebastian Professional, has all what my

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bar records. I love that. Yeah. Because you believed in yourself before anybody did. Yeah. You got

to. Yeah. I've made this one summer, I think I was like 15. I made this like little portfolio booklet of everywhere I had ever played, like the first time I sang out in public, my kindergarten graduation, and I write a little thing underneath it, and then the honky tonk talent searches, and literally it was like a big book. That's awesome. And in the back, I got some references, and it was my mama, daddy, and both of my grandmalls to write the references. I'm like, I don't even know who I'm going to show this book to, but I was doing something. You know what? It's the greatest part is that they did it too. Yeah. That they participated. Yes.

That's amazing. I know. I love them for that. Do you have any artists in, and maybe not just in country music, but in music, that you feel like have been maybe either mentors or just great supporters and friends? Oh my gosh. I mean, of course, Dolly Parton has, she's taught me a lot. She taught me a lot before I really even knew her. That's pretty cool to say. Yeah. Um, anything, maybe Nick Jagger has become a friend of mine. I'm like, how did that happen? Yeah.

But we got to play a show with them a month or two ago and just even like knowing that he was side stage watching us. It kind of gives me that little extra of like, okay. Yeah. Like these folks who I've, you know, have influenced me and inspired me, if they're kind of signing off on me, I guess I really can do this. Yeah. Who is that for you?

That's a good question. Probably the most influential person in music in my life for the last, 20 years, 18 years, has been my father-in-law, Lionel. Wow. To be such a legend, but then to be so supportive and just have the depth of music that he has, you know, just you think about the guy who wrote, We Are the World. I know. I actually got to meet him.

He gave me my very first CMMA award I ever. Oh, that's cool. I won a female artist of the year, 2021 or two. 22 and he was the one that gave it to me. That's cool. And I thought that's pretty cool. Yeah, he would remember that. Yeah.

He's been such a big influence. And my mother-in-law, both of them have been like amazing parents. I love that. You know? I love that you have that. I'm very lucky. God I have people like that in your life. And that it's your in-laws.

Like, I hear horror stories about in-laws. Oh, gosh. From day one, they were both like open arms. Really, really, like, amazing. But there's other people in the music business. I find a lot of the new artists. or the newer artists have a big influence on me somehow. I love that.

You know? I love that. Who are some of them, you think? Bad omens. Incredible band and incredible people. Architects, it's like this heavy rock band, amazing people. I feel like you're always trying to learn something from somebody. Yeah.

I'm curious person. That's a good quality. Very curious. Chase Atlantic, Australian kids. Cool. This is Girl Poppy. Mm-hmm. She's awesome.

Very much an individual. knows exactly who she is and very focused and very okay with if they don't get it yet. And then I've watched her grow in her career and that's served her. Now she's, she's blowing up. She's having all the things that's all coming together. But I've watched this person work very steady at their vision. And it reminds me that we all kind of need to have a vision for ourselves. I love that so much.

And we got to like. You just said something that reminded me to do something. that Melissa Etheridge said to me that same night, she said, don't get out there and try to win them over, just let them catch up. Yeah. That sounds like that's what Poppy's doing. You know who else is a lot like that I found is Adele. Really? Yeah. She knows what she wants. She doesn't like stray away from, yeah. She'll spend however long on the record, she's sure of it. It's not done yet. And then you hear it and you're like, it was worth it. That's right. I mean, she knew. How could that?

anyone else know. You got to listen to yourself. Yeah. That's respectable. Yeah. That is. Because I mean, there's a lot of opinions and a lot of voices. Yeah, well-meaning, you know, but like at the end of the day, I think with whatever you're doing, and some people listening may not be singers, but they may be trying to build something. That's right. And I think it goes into even like building a family, building a life. I think you have to have a vision. And I would almost say the first, the first, question should be like what's the vision what's the vision and like what tools are you going to keep in your tool belt yeah because you could say you could say oh it's just big you're like well that's big is part of a vision but it's not the vision that's right the vision has to kind of like you got to

take your time with that one and kind of go like what's the vision for this next chapter yeah I can hear it on your record I can hear like a vision there was a vision and we call the record whirlwind because that's what my life has been the last couple years, but I guess just writing and recording the record just brought me a lot of, like, peace and comfort during a time of my life that was changing a lot. And so the vision was for people to just, like, hear it and feel kind of like, feel grounded and at home. But also, I don't know, there's a lot of different emotions and feelings that we wanted people to feel in there, but I know how they're making the record made me feel. And it just kind of like took my head out of the

clouds for a minute. Yeah, I felt when I heard it, because I got it right away, a whirlwind, I already knew that that's what it was about. That's what it summed up. But it also was a way of acknowledging it and almost acknowledging it puts you back in the ground. Yes. And then there's lines on the record, like the line of good horse always comes back home. Is that the line? Yeah. I don't know if I got it. Good horses come home. Good horses come home. It like hit me. so hard because it's true. What's just what we were talking about about going even back to the balance. It's like, I love the road.

I love chasing these things. But I also know that like I got to go back and plant my feet on the ground. So and be Lainey, the sister, friend, daughter, everything. So I can be the artist. And no one needs to remind you, the girl who lived in the camper. No one needs to remind you. You were there long enough. Yeah.

Right. The world tries to make us feel like we should be smaller. We should be quieter. especially if you're a woman. You should not say this. You should not, you know. And I always challenge that idea. I think it's coming from other people who haven't worked it out or maybe they're suffering or they're in pain or maybe their self-esteem is low. Whatever. I'm not faulting them. But don't tell me not to go and try to climb that mountain. That's right. And then when I'm on the mountain, climbing, I'm not going to be looking back trying to listen to you tell me that I shouldn't be up there.

I'm going to be climbing. That's right. And then if I climb the mountain, thank God, if I get up there, don't tell me how long I can stand up and look at the view. I'm not saying I'm better than you because I climb the mountain, but let me climb the mountain. That's right. And then when I'm ready to come back down and look at the next mountain, then I'll do it.

Then I'll do it. Like that's the thing. I always think, like, who told the girl who lived in the camper that she could be audacious enough to think that she could do this? No one, except for a couple people that loved you. And actually, they just loved you. That's right. And they saw all the good.

If we let the world tell us too much, there's a fine line of being a thoughtful person and having good manners and then letting everyone tell you that you can't go and try to scale that wall or climb that mountain. That's right. And I always got to remind myself. It's those voices. And you just got to like block it out. Yeah, politely say like, fuck off. That's right. I got to go and run this race.

want to run. That's right. To see how fast that can run. But I will say too, somebody told me this and I was like, I really like that. One day I said something about, man, I got a lot of people to prove wrong. Yeah. And they said, no, how about like flip it and just be like, I got a lot of people to prove right. Like, think about all those people that four-hour restaurant. And like, think about those people, those people who really thought that you might have a shot at this. And, but still, every now and then, And I'm like, no, I still got a lot of people to prove right. I can't help it. No, I tend to agree with you.

Yes. But we said thank you then. That's right. You don't owe them your life either. And all the fans, like, I want to prove them right and I want to prove my family right. But the people that laughed at me or picked on me or that were mean to me or that those ones stick with you for their scars. They're burned deep in your psyche.

They do. And there's nothing wrong with that either. because those are some of the things that have driven me. I'll be honest. As long as we, I think, acknowledge both. That's right. You know? I think that's important.

Yeah. I think it is. I think you do. Take the good with a bad. Yeah, I think you do, though. Like, I was excited to talk to you because I just feel like you're like kind of badass. Thank you. I know how hard it is to make it.

And so I know what that feels like. For sure. And so there is like, there is. there's the energy you bring with you for all the years that like you can feel it in the music and it kind of like I think it's it's a good thing thank you I think that there's people listening to your music that are getting more than just like good songs there's some kind of energy or spirit around it that like people need especially now it's like everyone spends so much time fighting about shit that doesn't matter and I man and as musicians we get to sit in the middle

of all of it and actually just try to give people inspiration and actually like it is a form of love. That's right. We're putting love into the world. That is right. I think it's good. Like what you do is really good. That means a lot to me. It's great.

It does mean a lot. I feel a responsibility. Yeah. But I'll take it, you know. Yeah. And you got to say what's on your mind. That's right. And that's the thing too is like there's a way to do it.

Like we can say what we think. That's right. And I think you do that in your music, and I like, I really appreciate that. I like it. It's good. I want you to come to the Greek show. I'm coming. Come on.

Definitely coming. So you have the record coming out, August 23rd. Tour starts soon. We've been tour and we've, Lord. Or you've just been on the road. We've been on the road. Pretty solid this year, but we'll go through like the end of the middle of December. But, oh, yeah, I got a song coming out with Post Malone.

Oh, sick. Yeah, on his country record. I love it. One we're doing together and then one I wrote that him and Dolly partner are doing together. That's amazing. That's pretty cool. Did you enjoy working with Post? I loved every second of it and I love him.

He's a nice guy. We've become great friends. I mean, what I noticed about him is like even the people who were coming into the studio and taking the trash out and whatever, like he treated them just like he treated the guy that was running the soundboard. Yeah. And I'm like, he's good people. Yeah, that's the reputation. he has because that's who he is. He is.

And too, I'm so proud that he's a part of country music. Yeah. I mean, you could quiz him and be like, who wrote that song back in 1951, that, you know, whatever. And like, he would know it. He's just, he seems very excited to be a part of it. And I'm proud he is too, because I think he's going to introduce a lot of people to country music. Yeah, he's good for country music, but he grew up in it. So he's in the culture.

He's been in the culture. That's right. And in fact, I actually think that, where he started was a kid who like, I think he's a musical person. I think he just loves music. He's super talented. I know. But I think that like country feels to me like it's more natural than ever.

Like I feel like it's been, I feel like everything he's done to now has been, I'll bet you he does country the rest of his life because everything he's done has evolved him back to where I'll bet you. He started when he was a kid with listening to records and stuff. Well, that's the way, like, even when he was telling me about the songs or playing me the songs that he and, like, Morgan and Luke Combs, and they had all written that past week, he was like a little kid. Yeah. Like, how excited he was about it. You could tell that it, like, got him fired up, and I'd never been in the studio with him when he was, you know, playing other kinds of music. But there was something about it that I was like, this is pretty cool.

Yeah, he knows his music, too. He really likes like rock, country, hip hop. He can tell. He's just the music. It's about the music. Yeah. I love Post Malone. I do too.

What a guy? I do too. He's, we wrote, Lord, I think we wrote 12 hours. That was the first night write I had ever done. Oh, really? Usually work in the day? Yeah, most of the time I'm 10.30 in the morning or whatever. Do you guys work in Nashville?

Most of the time, this record, I don't think any of them were written in Nashville. Some at my house in Nashville, like a writer's retreat. And then most of them on the road. Okay. But yeah, we wrote through the night. I was like, this is some rock star stuff, I guess. This is how they do it. I'm tired.

What time did you guys wrap? Probably 5 o'clock in the morning. Yeah, that's real. I don't think I could go past two. Yeah, and I was like, shoot, I'm going to hit up that McDonald's. And then I got there and then I realized they weren't even open yet. And I was like. That's awesome.

I'm very, I'm really excited to hear that too. Yeah. And the song that I'm getting to be like a part of that I didn't write, he was playing it. And I was just kind of like singing the harmony in the background. And I was like, this song is bad ass. It's one that him and a buddy of mine, James McNair, and Luke Combs wrote. Are you friends of Luke? Yeah.

I love Luke. He's one of my like good friends. I love me some Luke. He used to come over to my camper trailer. Okay. And we'd write songs together. That's amazing. So we go like way back.

So he's one of my favorite people. Yep. I love Luke. Mine too. And he's exactly the same. He might be wearing a Rolex now, but he's exactly the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the best thing about him.

He's just like him. He's a good boy. He's just him. Yes. Yeah. He's amazing. He is. I love him.

It's crazy to see to what has happened so fast. Yeah. Do you think for you watching what's happening with artists right now, like blowing up really quick? Yeah, yeah. Do you think that's going to continue? you happening? Yes. Well, you have to think about it in this way, right? Because of everything now, the distribution of music, it used to be in physical record stores. So you'd have to go and it was an analog experience. So it was clunky. And now because it's all digital and everything's platform-based,

it's just faster. And then you have to also think that more people are consuming music in the various ways they do. Mainly, right? Like, so if you think there are people listening to music through Spotify, Apple, whatever, Amazon, whatever, then you have people listening to music and using it on social media, right? So now you have all these little movie and TV studios

that all need music, so they're syncing music. It continues to be more and more organized so that it's all being tracked. So that anytime anyone's using, you know, they want to use your song on Instagram for the background of their video, it's being used and it's tracked. So it's more organized.

The digital distribution is way bigger than the physical distribution ever could have been. And then you also have to think that every year, another 100 million people get a smartphone. And so as the world expands. I did not realize that. Yeah. So the world continues to, you know, it's more and more and more accessible for people all around the world to get a smartphone. And then also people aging into having phones, right? So 13, 14, whenever they get their first phone, 12, whatever.

So every year you have this audience that's another 100 million people. And now they're all searching. So I'll tell you this, our music is bigger now than it's as far as audience goes than it ever was. Wow. So our shows are bigger than they ever were. So everything just grows because there's just a bigger audience. That is so nuts. But what are you saying like, so if everybody's getting so big, so fast, with the oversaturation,

Like, I'm just trying to wrap my head around that. I'm like, there's not enough venues for everybody to go play. That's true. And like, you see that sometimes. And also people just can't afford it to go see everybody. So like, are people actually going to start showing up to live shows? Well, they're showing up to your show. They're showing up.

Thank the Lord. Yeah. So what I would say is I think that it becomes more about the quality of the experience and how you continue to nurture. That's why I always say like Zoom out. on the big thing of like the distribution of the music, right? But then zoom back in on your own, like call it a niche, right? If your audience in comparison to the whole audience is a niche because it's, let's say,

50 million people are listening to your music, I would say continue to super serve those people and it'll grow over time. And if you get swept up in the how am I going to break through and compete with the millions of artists that are trying to release music, you'll never be. be able to focus on what you're actually doing, which is like go back to the center, keep it small in the middle. Like I always say the bigger your life is, keep your real life small. I love that. You know what I mean? Write that down. Like the bigger you get, I don't even have a tattoo, but I'm going to get that tattoo. Yeah, yeah. The bigger my life gets, which is weird because

it continues to grow, but in different ways, because I'm not, it's not, it's not all about my music. It's not actually about me. It's about these other things. My home. My home. life, my real life has to continue to feel like small. Yes. So that I can continue. Those are the things that keep me going. Yeah. Friendships are important.

That's right. Sometimes you kind of have to pretend that like this on the outside of that smallness is not real. But I think that like with if you get overwhelmed with the size of the market that you're in because like the world, it just keeps, the audience just keeps getting bigger. It's insane. You got to go back to the small, like, every now and then and just make sure that it feels good to you. That's right. Like, you got to taste the sauce. That's right.

And go, like, food's still good. Okay, now we can go back out. Yeah. And remembering why you started doing this in the first place. Yeah. Like, holding on to that inner child. Yeah. And every now and then you go, like, I just need an hour.

I got to go, like, get back to that. That's right. And be the person everybody wants you to be. That's right. But you've got to do the other so you can. Yeah. I think both are important. Me too.

You know? I needed this. Me too. I did. It was good. This just flowed and it turned into me interviewing you. Yeah, it was great. I feel like I've met you years ago.

Come on the next record. Come on. Please. Okay. All right, Lanny. Let's do it. Thanks. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of artist friendly.

If you really liked it, you can follow, like, subscribe to the show, anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support, and we'll see you next time.