Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Leah Kate

Episode Date: May 3, 2023

This week on Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Leah Kate. The episode drops just days after Kate shared her latest single, “Happy.” The pop star, who makes sharp alt-rock-inspired pop anthems with confessional lyrics, has been on the rise in the past couple of years, thanks to several TikTok-viral singles and tours with Chase Atlantic and Madison Beer. Listen in as Leah and Joel discuss how her anxiety led her to writing confrontational music, her songwriting aspirations, and more. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠Spotify.⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden. This is artist-friendly from Alternative Press. And today I'm talking to Leah Kate. So you had a green room full of people. I did. That's Chase Atlantic. Yeah, 50 people.

And why do you want to forget it? Oh, God. I don't. I don't want to forget it. Well, sometimes I want to forget the whole tour. But it was so much fun. Why would I want to forget it? It was great.

Yeah, I mean, that tour was great, but it was also tough for you. you were going through all the like online stuff not to say you even want to talk about this because i know you don't harp on it but like i always think when i think about that tour one i think like it takes a special artist to open and play in front of um chase atlantic because they just have such a very like their fans are very much just they want to see chase atlantic and they now i think they're super cool. And I think that you did well on that tour. But there was that there was that element of like a few fans at every show were like, we're like basically attacking you on TikTok and just like being, it was not cool. And not to open the conversation with this conversation. You know, like a great

catch up would be like, hey, Leah, how are you doing? Good to see you. Haven't been, having seen you in a little while. But here we are. I know how that feels. I think. I think you handle yourself in a world that I don't think I would handle myself. I would just go off. I would just shut down all my socials and I would just go, fuck all you guys, I'm out. I think every artist deals with this. But you were dealing with it in real time on a tour that I was on. So I was there experiencing it.

And I thought, you know, in that little moment, I think you handled it really well. Thank you. Yeah. I think for a week, I was like, what is going on? And I was definitely, like, shook for a week. I was like, because I was coming off of the Madison Beer Tour, where it was the actual opposite. Yeah, the opposite. Like, polar opposite.

People were throwing presents and love letters. And it was the opposite. Like, chanting my name before. every time I went on stage. And when I got offered this tour, I was like, oh, Chase Atlantic is so sick. I'm so down. They're the best.

I remember being like, I don't know if this is the right fit for like a tour. I don't know if like their fans will, which I think it was a good fit. I think it was too. So do I. I think like the five to 10 people in the crowd every night that would do the videos.

You know, whatever. Like I don't even think that it was personal when I think about them just wanting to get likes on their videos. Yeah, it was like how to go viral. It was like a hashtag that they were trying to use to get likes. Each video got 20 million views. Right, right.

You went not just like viral when you did this. You went mega viral. So they were kind of using you to have a viral moment. It really was kind of an empty thing. That's why it didn't stick. That being said, you, I thought, handled it really well. Better than me. I don't know.

I'm, I don't do well with that stuff. I had to get in on the joke, you know? I was like, I'm not just going to sit here and let you guys make these videos. I'm going to do it with you. And so, yeah, put up my phone and put up the calculator app during my song, Fuck You Anthem every night. And I remember the first night, it was like an iconic moment. It was crazy.

Like everyone definitely freaked out. And we were like, that was too good. We have to do it every single show. So just getting in on the joke, it was. It was funny in it. It was great. Your music is kind of like confrontational. Yeah.

What do you think it is that, what do you think it is that? Like I notice about your songs, like they really speak to someone who's maybe just been in some bad, like maybe even hurt by some people, been in some bad relationships or not ideal. You really get it writing those songs. Thank you. What is that? I think like when you just said your music's very confrontational, like growing up, I was the most shy person ever.

Like I could not speak in class. I had so much anxiety. Like raising my hand was my biggest fear. Like I couldn't talk. I couldn't. People would come up to me and be like, say your name. And I'd be like, Leah. And then be like, no, scream it.

Like people wanted to hear me make noise. And I like was so just. like I don't know. I think I just had crippling anxiety and like couldn't talk. Like I never wanted anyone to hear what I had to say. I was very like just reserved and shy and scared. And so I think a part of my music being so confrontational now is that like I don't really have that fear anymore or I've like overcome it. Like performing used to be my worst nightmare. I was like I want to make music and like write songs but I'm just going to do it from the studio and like not perform live. Like I was so scared of anything being in front of people talking to people talking in front of people um so i think

now but maybe that's a maybe that's like a strength though yeah like maybe like being slow to warm up like that's how i look at it yeah i look at it as not shy i look at i mean there's i'm shy if you if you for all intense purposes but then i kind of go like am i shy because like i can get on stage the right situation and not be shy. Yeah. But I was the same in school. I was categorized by other people as shy. And maybe even beyond that, like I struggled with learning and stuff.

So it was like all these things they would define us as. Like actually I was just a highly creative person who was super thoughtful and weighted. I was slow to warm up. I always say that like because I think like then I get warm and I'm and then I get hot. Yeah. And then I'm doing stuff, you know. I think that like I found you from my experience of you to be still kind of reserved. My experience of you is you have really good ideas and you share really relevant things when you connect, you know, when we talk. I think that you would be the person who would fill the space before you'd make the other person feel obligated to fill the space.

but whose job is it to fill the space? You, like me, probably are going to fill that space to make someone feel comfortable. For sure. It's not your job. Is that weird? No, I'm totally with you. And I do do that. I've thought around on this because I think we're similar in that way.

Part of what makes you special is who you were as a kid. Because I think that's the most perfect version of us is like when we're kids. Yeah. And if it means we're like quiet, thoughtful, slow to one. warm up. Like maybe there's a lot of power in that. And then we're told by the world that that's shy. Yeah. And that we should speak up. Yeah. You know what I mean? Or like get kicked out of school and go somewhere for like kids with special needs. Huh. Yeah. People in the classroom. Yes. Because you can't focus because you care about other things. Yeah. So we're going to pull you out of

school. Exactly. And I'll bet you a lot of artists have that same experience. Oh yeah. I want to like so many schools because everyone was like, no. So you didn't do well in school? I hated school. I would leave the class and go to the computer lab and just like mess around and do what I liked. And everyone like the school like psychiatrist, everyone was like Leah's not going to make it to like high school math. Like she her brain just like I don't know. She's not built for it.

And it was like my whole family against my dad. Everyone was like we need to bring her to like a school for kids with. special needs. There's two people per classroom. She'll get like the special attention. Like, Leah needs so much help. She can't get through school. She's not. What's your dad say? My dad was like, absolutely not. We're going to put her in the like most academic hardest middle school ever where she has to like rise above it and like, you know, do what everyone else is doing. Like we're going to put her in like like the, like the, it's called the school called Curtis, which is like the Oh, yeah, yeah. I've heard of that school. Yeah. That's tough school. It's definitely tough.

It was like super academic, like test, this, that. And my dad was like, The perfect little humans. Yeah, right? We're going to take this little girl who hates school, can't do school, put her in the hardest school possible and force her to do it because I know she can. And did they? Yeah, they did.

And how'd you do? And I did so well. You did? Yeah, because I wanted to go to this one like high school and I knew I needed to like get five grades to get in. I did good. I rose above and I did it. When I want something, I can like put my mind to it and do it.

I just didn't want to do schools. I was like, this is so unnecessary. I hate this. Why should I do it? And everyone was so worried. And my dad, I think, had to buy my mom some diamond to get her to shut up and let him do what he wanted. It was, you know, everyone. It was like a family war.

And my dad talks about it to this day. And, yeah. So. Do you think you got, like, what did you think you got something really good out of that experience? Did you realize that you have kind of like a killer instinct? or ability to focus and get what you want, no matter how much you care or don't care about, maybe the work is not so interesting,

but you know the result of what you want is, you know. I think what I learned is if I put my mind to something, I can do it. And I'm not like, everyone made me feel like I was incapable. Right. And, like, Leah can't do this. Leah can't do that. Leah has problems.

She has learning disabilities. And I think that, like, definitely affected me. I was like, oh, I have all these things wrong with me. Like, I can't do anything. And then, like, something about knowing that you can. But you never believed it, I feel like. I don't think I did. Yeah.

I definitely didn't. I was like, I'll be fine one day. I'm just not there yet. Yeah, you strike me as someone who has their mindset on something. Yeah. I was just like, I'm just going to, like, do music one day. So I don't need this education. I'm just going to write my songs.

You're definitely, I got to say, you are definitely one of the best songwriters. I have every encountered. Oh my God, that's so sweet. I'm telling you, anyone out there that's listening that's a professional in our industry, it's funny, like we're all artists and we're all making art, and it is a real job, and it is a real career path, and you can really actually have a career in this in a lot of ways, right? I've had a very kind of multifaceted career over the last 20, how long is it is like 25, 26 years. I've been an artist and I've been a songwriter and a producer.

I've been all these, you know, we have a music company now, management company. We have all the, all these different paths inside of this career. And so in order to succeed, though, you have to have what, in my opinion, you have to have talent and then you with that talent you have to have a work ethic that keeps you showing up in a consistent way and over time if you're consistent you'll have success right you'll see fruits from that you write some of the best songs I've heard and and you find the sauce with whoever you're working with you know when you there's something about instinct with songwriters we know who our partners should be so we know when we work with a great producer who brings the best out in us as a top liner

we start doing it with them. We're hitting the ball well with them. You find different creative partners. It's the fun part because you can try on a few pairs of shoes and they don't fit right. But then you find one that really you guys are just perfect together. And that's a really good feeling. Do you play instruments as well? Yeah, but not really live.

Right. Because I'm just not good enough. But when you write? Yeah, like I can play guitar and piano. But I'm not like a live player. Yeah. I'm not either. but not there yet.

I'm not there yet either. Okay. I'm not there yet either. Okay. And I'm like pretty far down the road to be there. Same. I'm not good live. I play piano, play guitar, play all it.

But like live, no. I have zero confidence. Zero. Start studying and my fingers can't work. My fingers are working trying to play the piano live. I'll sit at home and jam on the piano and then someone will come in the room and I'll be like, so I just have to say that I, I, I don't know.

I think you are absolutely one of the best songwriters I've encountered in the last 10 years. Wow. Thank you. Every song is a jam. I love writing a good jam. Yeah. I live for a good concept. Yeah.

Like all day, every day, I'm just constantly like writing stupid things down in my notes. And like occasionally one is a great one. And I'm like, oh, let's do it. But yeah, I mean, I started. I don't think I knew I was a songwriter when I was really young. Like 5, 6, 7, I was like, I want to be a singer. I would, like, see these pop stars on TV with, like, 1,800 commercials. And I was like, that's what I want to do.

And then my brother was a producer just on, like, garage band at the time. And I would just, like, go in and freestyle, like, a whole song. And I'd be like, oh, it was actually kind of fun. So I just started, like, freestyling. That's how I started doing like. That's how I right. It's kind of, like, the way. to like I find that my best ideas come when I'm just like all right give me the mic um so it's kind of how I started

I was like oh these aren't so bad I'm just bitballing stupid shit and some of it's actually okay and then I like learned oh I like writing songs yeah I don't think I knew that though because when I was like really young I would reach out to like I'd find like the producers behind Katie Perry like Fergie like all you remind me a lot of Katie about yeah her her she is an incredibly talented songwriter Oh, yeah. And she's also a great performer and singer. Like you, you're a great performer. You're a great singer live.

But not everyone who can perform and sing live can write great songs and really come up with like A plus concepts and finish them, right? You can, right? Katie's a lot like that. She's a super talented performer, but she's a killer songwriter. Yeah, I bet. You know, first time I ever met her, saw her, was on Warp Tour, early 2000s, she was, like, carrying around an acoustic guitar and, like, she was, she is a, the real deal, like, musician, songwriter, you know, I think she's at heart a songwriter.

Yeah. She understands songs. I feel the same way about myself, whether I'm a good musician or not. Like, I'm a songwriter, I think, in terms of songs. I always hear a chorus or a lyric. or I even speak sometimes lyrically. I don't write anything down. I freestyle everything when I write songs.

The good stuff, I always say, the good stuff will stick and I'll remember it. And if I don't, it wasn't good enough. It wasn't good. And I also kind of had to learn how to accept that my process was my process and that I shouldn't try to learn someone else's process. Because I would go into some of these rooms and everyone was so serious and they were like they had they seemed like they had such a method and a process and they were writing things down and they were like whatever and I was like when I started going down that road of

trying to get more serious I fucked myself up when I got back to just being me and I was like now just go in on the mic let me just let me just spit something and see if something good comes out yeah when all the good shake always comes out right it never comes out good when you're trying too hard or too serious and when you're being just the most honest like like having fun. And letting it flow out of you for whatever reason you needed to write 10 things. Right? Yeah.

And you need to get it off your chest. Whether it was from 10 years ago or 20 years ago or two years ago or two months ago, I needed to make that list. Someone did something to you that like hurt you enough that you needed to make that list. And you did. And that's a song that I think everybody relates to actually. Right. everyone can relate in some capacity of that.

Yeah, I needed to write that list. Today's actually the one-year birthday of the song, so happy birthday. Congratulations. 10 things I hate about you. Thank you. Yeah, that was a... Your first platinum? Yes.

That's great. Congratulations. That's a huge accomplishment. It's pretty crazy. Yeah. It's really, really insane. That's awesome. Thank you.

Huge accomplishment. Yeah, I can't really believe that happened, but... Yeah, it's a great song. Thank you. And I am... I am sure that you will have more. Yeah. You're just that, you're that person.

You write those songs. Mm-hmm. I love a good global smash. Would you write for other people? For sure. And that's like something I want to get into. I haven't really been doing sessions for other people just because I've been really focused on my own music.

But I want to start just like getting in with other artists writing for them. You should. Yeah, I think it'll be like inspiring also. It gets kind of like I don't want to just write for me like every day. day. I think it'll be cool to write for others. I mean, I have so many songs that are amazing that I'm like, oh, I probably wouldn't release as myself. And I'm always thinking about who could, you know, release what. But I want to, like, actively be writing with others. You should absolutely do that. I think you are too good to not, like, flex that at least a little bit. Thank you. You know, like 10% of your

time or 20% of your time, whatever. I know you're in your artist journey. And that's like, it doesn't just have to be one thing though. Like you should definitely write for other people. I think it's really, I think you will have a lot of success collaborating with other people. And by the way, the cool thing about these days when you write with other people is sometimes you stay on a song with someone. Sometimes it's like there's no rules to, especially when you're an artist, it's cool because like you never know where music is going to come out and how it's going to be like

where it's going to take root in. the world and it might be with some other artists or it might be you collaborating with an artist or it might be you but like it starts to paint this what I think is this really kind of like dynamic diverse picture of like your catalog of songs I would say you have to do that 100% that's on my list of things to do this year yeah so are you hard on yourself very yeah really hard Are you a perfectionist? Oh my God, yeah. Like even when at like when 10 things was at its peak like top 15,

I was still finding ways to be like what I'm doing isn't good enough. Like it's not like a number one. Like I'm a flop. Right. Like I always. I know that feeling though. Yeah. It's like I can never just like, wow.

Then when time like I'll look back and be like, holy shit, that was so crazy. Like why did I not think that what was going on was amazing? amazing and I never think I'm like good enough in the moment but I can like reflect when looking back and be like oh my god that show was incredible but instead I'll be like oh I ruined that song like I sounded so bad I like that's crazy went off key like oh my god like I'll come off stage and be like I couldn't hear myself in that song like everyone knew I forgot a lyric and Jacob will be like what are you talking about no one knows anything yeah that's crazy I I understand that though

And the concept of that is like in your head You're kind of living in a little world in your head Like as an artist You're not outside with us watching this like it's cool Yeah It's cool like everyone's it's good Yeah No one's picking it apart too by the way

Everyone's just watching going cool This is great All right You can sing I love to pick it apart Yeah but I do that But do you think that that like critical voice in your head drives you, or do you think that, like, sometimes it hurts you?

Both. I think it definitely drives me, like, with 10 things. I was, like, not releasing a song. If it's good, it has to be, like, amazing to the point where I think this is going to, like, go crazy. Like, I'm not, I was like, I'm not just going to release a good song anymore. Like, I don't believe in good songs. It needs to be, like, spectacular.

And you got a hit. Yeah. And then? And then I think. The critical voice comes in and says, not good enough. It's not a number one. It's not making it to number one. Like all my collaborators on the song probably think this sucks.

Like it only went to top 15. That sucks. That's crazy. But now, now that I'm outside, I'm like, I had a top 15 song. Why did I not think that's good enough? I never had a number one song in America. I think top 15 was as high as I got. That's great.

It's amazing. And now I can see that. But when I'm in it, I never see, I'm never like, wow, this is incredible. I'm just like, how can I do better? So I think it drives me and then it probably has to hurt me in some way because it's just like a little toxic. I think that critical voice we have is there to protect us sometimes. But most of the time we don't need to be protected. I think like it's in like in our DNA, like our nature to like to avoid.

I actually think it goes back to like being cavemen and like we were actually a voice. death from like bears and stuff. You know what I mean? Yeah. But it's still in our DNA to like the anxiety we actually get is like a mechanism there that's been there a long time. Yeah. And we have to kind of update ourselves and like take the pressure off of like the survival.

Mm-hmm. We're not actually surviving. We're actually thriving as a species, you know? Yeah. And you're thriving as a person. Mm-hmm. Part of the recipe of like the ingredient that probably drove you to that is exactly the thing, the reason why you can't be satisfied with it. Mm-hmm.

The like life or death survival mode. Yeah, the need. If I don't have a hit, I'm going to die. The relentless, the relentless pursuit. Mm-hmm. 100%. I have to as well. I'm very, very, like, tenacious in some ways when it comes to like building things and trying to achieve things.

But then I have to like, I have had to train myself. to compartmentalize that. Yeah. And contain my ambition to my tasks. But then when I go home and I'm in my personal real life with my wife and my kids and like I have to find quiet to be content, I have to contain because I won't be able to turn my brain off. And then I won't get any sleep.

And then I'll wake up and be grumpy and then it's a pattern. And then I'm like, you know, it's crazy when you have like ambition. You have to really be able to point it at things and shoot it. And then go home and be like, okay, I'm getting in this quiet space with these people who love me. And I've got to be here with them and interact with them. And if I'm not careful, I'll be a million miles away. Wow. Yeah, I can't do that.

It's really bad. I feel like I never like turn off and go home. I'm always just like. Your brain never stops. It never stops. How do you sleep? The only time it stops is. is when I'm in a massage and have to like,

but I'm still thinking about everything. I just get really good ideas, but I can't be on my phone or like doing anything. Right. But like when I'm in a massage, my hands are just like, my head is in a whole. Is that the only time you're not on your phone

is when you're in a massage? Like maybe. That's crazy. Or sleeping. Maybe you should do float therapy. Maybe. I'm fine with my 90 minute massages, too. Yeah, that's good.

I find it's like a form of meditation. Yeah, for sure. You fall asleep. I'll take like snore. Yeah, exactly. I fall asleep a lot. But I also, well, I'll grab my phone occasionally in the massage actually because I'll think of a really good song idea in my massage. And I have to write it down because I'll fall asleep and forget it. So I will actually be on my phone during massage. But like really quick. My masseuse is like, what is wrong with you? Quickly. Yeah, very quickly. How much do you sleep every night? So I am kind of a grandma when I comes to sleep. I sleep a lot. I fall asleep really early, which is good. Like I'm not up. all night being crazy. Right. My sleep is kind of normal. And I think that's why, like, 10.

Yeah. And then I wake up at five and, like, craziness starts at five. So I'm not mad at my life. Nicole goes to bed, like, she'll go to bed at nine if she can. Oh, same. I love a nine o'clock at that time. Oh, my God, my favorite. But 10 is usual.

Like, 10's pretty, pretty standard. Yeah. But still feels early to me. I go to bed around midnight-ish. Okay. 12.30. Okay. And then.

If I'm lucky, if I can turn my brain off, and then I get up around six. Okay. So it's not a ton of sleep. Yeah, that's not. I should get more. I try to get six hours. Okay. That's not a lot.

I cannot function on, like, if I sleep six hours, I'm so tired. And then like my whole day is ruined. So you need eight? I do. What time do you wake up? So early. Like six a. Five, six.

Yeah. So I have to go to bed at 10. Even if I go to bed at like 3 a.m. I'm still up. So how do you do late nights? That's the thing. I don't. You don't do a lot of late nights.

That's why when we were talking about that music festival, but I have to go to. Is that what you're really afraid up? I was wondering what that was. Like, you want me to stay up until three in the morning? I'm getting nervous. Yeah. I mean, like, on tour when I was headlining, yeah, like it was a later set. I'd probably be done at like 11 and then just like go to bed.

I don't like going to bed after midnight. I don't really party a lot. I like my sleep. Yeah. Because it's... That's smart. You'll live a long time. Yeah.

I love sleeping. Sleep is key. Yeah. I'm really working on it, I promise. Yeah, you should. Yeah, you should. Six hours, not a lot. Yeah.

And I certainly have had times in my life where I got more sleep than others, but I feel like I feel like I'm at this place in my life where I have a lot of things that I care about going on. And when we're in process, it's really hard for me to turn my brain off because I'm always trying to analyze everything and make sure. that I'm not missing something and that I'm not letting anything fall by the wayside. And what I do, particularly at all of our companies, tends to be really brain heavy and then conversational, like, I'm a relationship person. So I'm out in the world talking to people all the time. And I have these conversations and then I analyze them in my head. I find myself having these long inner conversations and analyzing like what I,

what are the takeaways? Because I always feel like every person I come in contact with is a new kind of like experience of life. They have their own experience. They have their ideas. And I always think there's something you can take away. Yeah. Some of it is really valuable information.

And some of it is like I really think that that's an example of like what I don't want to do. or how I don't want to be or whatever. Like, I just think that there's, like, just, like, information, constant information. It makes my brain, like, just, oh. Mm-hmm. So it's really hard to turn off. It's hard. A struggle I deal with.

I think it's ADD, too. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Crazy. You have ADD? The worst. ADHD? Yeah.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Like. Oh, you're creative, so I'm not surprised. The worst case of ADHD known to mankind, maybe. Yeah. So the phone helps because you're like constantly like switching between things. It keeps you calm.

Yeah, it does. Yeah. Switch between a thousand things at once. How do you, how do you make decisions? How do you deduct? I usually know what I want. But I'll opinion shop. Yeah, opinion shopping, right?

I love the opinion shopping. That's a good way of putting it. I never heard of that. Do the shopping. It's good to get perspective. Perspective. Love perspective. And then I just come back to what I wanted originally.

So I think like I can feel within what's like the right decision. Right. Always. Like I just listen to like what my God is telling me. But I love to ask around, get some perspectives and then decide. And then you feel good or do you do you constantly contemplate if you may the right decision or once you make a decision, do you just pull the trigger, bang, and you don't look back?

I look back. Okay. I'll be like, if I did that, then would this have happened? Would that have happened? I don't look back. Yeah, right? It's bad. It's not.

I just go forward once I make a decision. Yeah, that's what I should do. But I don't know if you should. Maybe you're like, maybe I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying like that's what I do. No, I love that. I'm trying to channel that. I wonder sometimes if I should analyze the past.

I guess I was having this conversation last night with someone. And I overanalyzed most things all the time. How do I feel? I wonder where that came from. And I certainly analyzed the past, my childhood. How did that affect me? How did my relationship with my dad, my mom? And I don't know if it's over-analyzing or not, but it's just who I am.

I'm kind of like continually deep in the world. work of trying to figure out like what how my brain works and how I process things. Because I think that we're all trying to like clean up the messier parts of ourselves because we all have them like there's well for sure we have like a messy part. Yeah. The part I'm not super tight on. But then I have these super tight parts that I present well as like, I do this and I do that and I have my shit together and blah, blah, blah.

And like, but I do think that we all have our like. like the things that we guaranteed. I think we all have the issues we need to work on. And we don't want, I mean, we're not going to put our dirty laundry out there for everyone to look at all the time. You know what I mean? Like, here's the mess. But like, we're all working on it.

And I think that I'm just kind of always like analyzing the past that way. But when I make a decision on like, like if it's a work thing or I don't ever think back. I don't look back at all. Just go. It's almost like I forget that it was even a decision. I'm going to try that. I'm going to try that. I love that.

I don't know if it's right, though, but. It's worth trying. It works for me. It's better than thinking back to three years ago when I did something and maybe if I did it differently, something else would have happened. There's no going back. So it seems like a waste of energy maybe. I don't understand living with a lot of regret.

I just don't understand it. but maybe like someone who did something really bad regrets, the best way to alleviate regret is to be present now and get the most out of right now. Yeah. If I regret not spending time with my kids and spend time with them now. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Definitely. You know what I mean? That's the most immediate, to me, the solve of regret is to get into now. And do what you regretted not doing, do it now. Yeah, 100%. I'll usually go back and forth like a thousand times before I decide. I noticed that we were talking about the festival. Yeah.

I felt like... Still not decided. From what I understand is the decision you were making, I think you were solid. I think you're making like good points. You have a tour coming up. You're trying to figure out. You're trying to be zen. Actually, there's nothing more important than your tour, I think.

I agree too. So nothing should fuck with that. Yeah. And like a late night for me And staying up all night Will fuck with me Like I'll be tired for the full weekend When I can be like

Planning my set on Saturday And thinking through and rehearsing I'll be tired and ordering a bagel to my bed Yeah That's what happens when I go out all night And this would be kind of You stay in bed Oh yeah I'm just so tired

I'm like I'm very easily just like Burnt out And if I don't take care of myself and sleep And I'm just it really gets to me. I think there's a real clock, though. Yeah. Like there's a nature clock, like for optimal hours of sleep.

And I do think it's something like between 9 and 11 and between like waking up between like five and seven or eight. Yeah. I think that is like the optimal hours for some reason, like the sunset, sunrise. Yeah, it makes the most sense. Something like that. Yeah. I think Huberman was talking about it.

Yeah. Yeah. It makes sense. Good. Yeah. I'm in that cycle. And if I get out of it, then I'm just so tired. I'm like, ah. And you're touring in Europe. Mm-hmm.

And last time you were there with Madison Beer. Mm-hmm. It was really nice. She's the best. Yeah. Love her. Yeah. So just down to earth and great.

I toured with her last year, and then I had my headline in Europe in the fall, which was insane. Yep. So fun. And now I'm going back. For another headline. This, I'm opening for Haley Kiyoko. Oh, cool.

Yeah. She's cool. That'll be fun. I'm excited. Yeah. Are you a fan of her music? Yeah, I think she's awesome. Cool.

Love her. I've never met her, but we've talked online. Oh, good. But I'm a fan of her, and I'm definitely excited. How did these tours come about? This, okay, so the Madison Beer Tour was actually, like, a long time in the making. Years ago, I was just like a fan of Madison, and I really liked her music. and I was looking for a manager and I reached out to her manager because I was like, oh, he does a great.

I like what she's doing. Why not just like DM her manager? And I DM him. Makes sense. I was like, hey, I love what you're doing. Looking for management would love to meet. And he responded. He was like, let's meet.

I was like, oh, he wants to meet. And this was like, I maybe had one single out at the time. We meet and he wasn't really interested in like taking me on as a client. But I was grateful that he wanted to hear my music, give advice. Yeah. You know, and in my head, I was like, I would die to open for her. Like, I just feel like fandoms would be aligned and the music is similar. And I asked him, she was performing in New York once.

And I was like, is there any way I could open the show? And he was like, I'll let you know. And it didn't work out. And then I, like, saw she announced her U.S. tour and I hit him up. And I was like, is there any way this can happen? And it didn't, nothing. It got close, but nothing really happened. And then I saw she announced her a Europe tour.

And I was like, I will do anything. to open for this tour. He didn't respond. And I followed up a week later. He didn't respond. I followed up like five times. And I was like, hey, following up once more. I have this song like, you know, doing well.

This was pre-tent things. I was like, is there any way I could be like, I could submit myself for this? He was like, send me a performance reel. And I was like, okay. So I spent like hours making this reel of like shows I had done. Oh, wow. And he was like, what's your manager's email? And I connected them.

And he was like, hey, we'd love to like consider Leah for this tour, looping in her agent, we'd love to have her for the Europe tour. I was like, oh my God. And it just like happened. But I feel like I've worked towards it for like four years. You definitely tried. Yeah, I tried. That's good.

And then I worked. I was really annoying. Super annoying. Yeah, but, well, you know, listen, if you weren't good, it would maybe be annoying. Yeah. But usually when someone's good and you realize they're good and it takes time sometimes, you know, I found like a lot of the bands that came knocking on our door that I'm a fan of. I just everybody's living, it's not personal.

Everyone's living their life running through their thing. And I always try to tell artists like, don't take a non-response from someone as like an insult or rejection. Everybody is living their life and they do not give a fuck. Yeah, they don't. Until they do. because you can't you can't literally give a fuck until you do and you can't fake it yeah you can try to give people time but you only have so much time so you're just going to try your best and i absolutely try to give everyone i can time if i can but i miss for sure miss things i have for

sure miss things and i and that's on me yeah i've also learned like i have to be careful because i'll get excited about something and i'll want to help and then I have to be careful because it'll take me away from what I'm doing. You can't do too much at once. Weird, yeah. You've got to find a balance. Yeah, yeah. I always want to do way more than I can mentally handle, I feel like, which never is good.

I want to help everyone. Yeah. I want every band to be big. I want everyone to, their dreams to come true. They have to do it though. I believe that your success comes solely from you. Definitely. And you build out a version of that success with people that you want to be like a team.

It takes a village. It does. But the drive is coming solely from you. If anyone has to give you the drive, kiss it goodbye. Yeah. No, it has to come from you. Got to come from you. Yeah.

Especially now you just, you can't rely on other people to, you could have like the best team in the world. They can't dream for you though. Yeah, no, they can't. You got to dream the dream. Yeah. You got to dream it. You got to do it. But you're doing that.

Thank you. You're a great example of someone who's like driven to succeed. And listen, again, like hit songs, great. You'll have more hit songs. And like I guarantee you likely it won't just be your hit song. It'll be a hit song with someone else. You'll write for someone else for sure. You're always going to want more.

You're never going to get to another. You'll have another hit. it won't be enough. You'll have to keep. But that's the drive. You have to have that. You have to keep it. Yeah.

I don't think that will ever die in me. Yeah. I feel like it won't go anywhere. That it feels very much within. It's not dead yet. So. Do you think the need is personal? What do you mean?

Is it personal? Like, do you feel like you're doing this to prove it to yourself? Yeah. Or do you feel like people in your mind, I'll tell you the honest truth about me. In my mind, it wasn't early when I started in music. And still to this day, I guarantee it, even though I would try to say that this is not the case now. I've always had a chip on my shoulder. I always felt like people underestimated me and made me feel like I didn't have the capacity

or the ability or the smarts or the talent to do something special. Yeah. No, I can definitely relate to that. I think like I always never felt good enough or smart enough or, you know, nothing enough. Growing up, yeah, I never felt good enough about anything. Do you think most artists feel that way? I think so. I mean, there has to be some kind of, yeah.

I mean, now when I think about it, I definitely, there's a lot of people I want to, like, prove wrong, including, like, family. Those, like, don't go into music. Music should be a weekend hobby. Like, you don't do that for. For a living. How would that work as a weekend, hobby? It would not. There's no way.

We get together. We play jam. Me in the garage. The moment that like my career started, you know, actually becoming something was when I got fired from my like day job because I could actually, it was working for this like startup. It was like an app. Okay.

It was great because I didn't have to go into the office. It was a remote job. So for me, that meant be in the studio. and, you know, write songs all day, but, like, do it on the side. And I got fired because they're, like, this girl has songs coming out every Friday. Like, we know she's not really focused on this. Yeah. She's not really doing it.

Yeah, she's not doing shit. And then I got fired, which was like, I was so upset because I was living in New York at the time and I needed a salary to stay there because it was so expensive. And no one was going to be giving me money to stay in New York to like. New York's tough. Oh, yeah. It's so tough. How do you live there?

Oh, God. I do not know. When I go there now, I'm like two days and out, like get me out of here. It's hard. Oh, it's brutal. You don't get a lot of space for your money. You do not. So I was there.

And I was so sad because I got fired. And I was like, I need to move back to my parents' house and just figure it out. Yeah, reset. And my dad would call me and be like, what are you doing today? I'm getting lunch with my grandma. Like, everyone wants to know what you're doing for your job and your career. And I'm like, I have a session and writing a song. And my dad just like, no one understood it.

They're like, you need to. to get a real job and music, you should 100%. Yeah, I was like, this will be a real job. And I don't think anyone believed it until like last year that it was real. Everyone was like, oh, Leah and her music, whatever. So I think, yeah, like I was never like the smart kid in class. I never felt like, oh, I'm like the cool kid in high school. I always felt this like, oh, I'm not good enough.

Definitely. I felt severe insecurities of not. being good enough. Yeah, me too. Yeah, I think I'm always trying to prove people wrong, even though I don't realize it. Like, maybe I'm just my whole career. Chip on the shoulder, they say. Yeah.

A little chip. Definitely. I'm trying to prove everyone wrong. Even when I think about, when I like tell my dad things, I think, you know, I'm still trying to prove him wrong. Yeah. I just got a sink for a movie. Yeah.

Do you regret all those times? He told me to go get a job? He's like, no, I was trying to protect you and I didn't get it. That's what he'd say. I would say that too. If my kid wanted to come out and go do something, I argue with my kids all the time. Yeah. It's just what we do.

Because they don't want to, for whatever reason, I feel like they don't think that I know what I'm talking about. Like I've been here for 44 years on this planet. Longer than that. I promise you, I'm not trying to fuck with your good time. I'm trying to give you information that is going to help you get there faster. Yeah. So listen to me. Yeah.

That being said, I don't think there is many career paths that I would not, that I would say what I don't understand or what are you doing. But I do understand that like, but there probably is though if I think about it. If my kid said, oh, I'm going to be, I'm trying to think of something that I just don't understand because of my age. Right. If my kid said, I'm going to be a YouTuber, I go, no, you're not. But... Oh my God. I'm not.

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know I would be wrong. I know it's just because I don't understand how that works.

Yeah. So what do you mean? You're just going to like, what does that mean?

You're going to walk around with cameras all day and then they'd be like no, dad,

we make videos like blah, blah, like they don't want to be YouTubers, but I'm just saying, like, if they did, I would have to support it. I'd have to be like, I would probably go like, okay, give me a second. Let me go, like, research and learn what this means. And, like, then I'll come back to you with hopefully a strategy that I think could work.

And hopefully we can, like, I can help you. But, man, it would be hard for me to, like, I think, accept something that is a real job. Yeah, real. But to me, it's. But to me, it's. not because I don't understand it the same way they do. Yeah. But I know it's a real job. It's real. I know like people do really well and build lives making content. Yeah. It's just I'm an old guy.

So when someone says I'm a content creator, I go, say you're on Instagram all day. Yeah. Cool. No, that's not actually what it is. They are actually making content. And a lot of them will go on to become serious. creatives because they're starting a serious creatives, but I'm writing them off because they're calling themselves a YouTuber or a content creator or whatever.

It does not mean they're not any less important or serious than someone that's like, I'm an artist. Yeah. What kind of art? Multimmedium, different mediums, all different mediums. And if we use different words, it sounds a lot more important. important. Yeah.

But if a kid goes, yeah, I'm a YouTuber. Yeah. I asked my nephew the other day, what do you want to do when you grow up? And he was like, I want to be a TikToker. Exactly. Okay. You'd be a TikToker then. But that's a real job.

Totally. We just old people don't want to like acknowledge it. Yeah. I'm sure my dad would be like you are not going to be a TikToker. I mean, I would do that too. That's why I'm saying I understand like if music is this. the version of that, I understand because... That's his YouTuber.

Yeah, like, I would go, that would be my version of telling my kid, like, what are you doing with your life? If they were like, I'm a TikToker. Yeah. Like, what? Yeah. No, you're not. No, you're not going to be a TikTok.

I work too damn hard for you to be, to call yourself a TikToker. But it's a real, but I got to accept it. I'm a TikToker. What if they now become TikTokers? What if I'm... I feel like we're going to jinx it and they're going to go. No, we're not. I'm not a jinx it.

Yeah. But they'd be very good TikTokers. Oh, I'm sure. You'd be like pro. Yeah. I think All-Star. Yeah. I believe in them.

Oh, me too. And I don't necessarily want them to be surgeons. No. No. You know? If you could choose, what would you choose? A creative entrepreneurial business. Something that is, there's room to,

grow and it doesn't have to be perfect. I think that where they can really like learn how to build things. So like an entrepreneur, but in some kind of creative. Okay. You know, whether it's music or art or fashion or, you know, but I definitely like, for me personally, I like being an entrepreneur is something that I feel like. It's very hard, but once you get it down and you spend enough time and enough years building out the foundation of your life and your business, there's no other life for me.

Yeah. If they want to be artists, great. Great. I'll be fun. Yeah. I don't know. My non-existent kids wanted to start a band. Yeah.

If they want to do that, I'll help them. Yeah, right? Yeah. But it's a hard life too. Yeah, it's not easy. I don't want to tell them that, though, because I didn't know it was a hard life until after the fact. Right.

You don't realize. You don't want them to go into it with like, oh, this is going to be hard. Because the first few years you're just so excited that it's not that hard. You're just running forward. It only gets harder when you get older and you become aware of like reality. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people would tell me like don't get into music.

It's the worst career path ever. My advice to anyone out there that's listening that goes, I want to go into music is do it. but go and go all in. Gut check, do I want to do this for real? And if I do want to do it for real, I got to go all in and then just go all in because it will be hard no matter what. It's not as hard if you're all in and you just have no other options and you have to go forward. And I worked at the 90s. So I was working terrible jobs.

Oh, my God. Yeah. She did not want. Yeah, literally working two jobs, paying the bills. We lived on our own. We moved out when we were young, working jobs, barbacking, waiting tables, worked in a, like, unloading trucks at like Barnes & Nobles, all this stuff. Like any job that I could have that I could keep long enough until I had to quit because we had a show

and we couldn't work that weekend. And we'd always, every three to six to nine months we were finding jobs. It was hard, but we didn't know it was hard at the time. We were just doing what we had to do. Yeah, you didn't realize how hard it was. You were just running. Yeah. Yeah.

So I always say to people, just start running. Yeah. It won't get hard until you've already made it. Yeah, right? Things definitely got harder once I had success. Which is a little bit of like a paradox. Yeah, that's so confusing. Like shouldn't have...

It'd be hard before. Yeah. And easy after. It was easy when I had nothing going on and I was just like running, running, running, working these jobs in the studio, riding, no one cares, whatever. It got way harder when there's like some success. But like, don't you think it's in our brain? brain that it's hard.

Yeah. And that's the only place in our mind. Definitely. We create our reality. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I think so too.

Yeah. I could look around and go tell you how hard my life is and you go, what? Yeah. In my brain, it's so hard. Right? Yeah. I always think about that. Yeah.

That's an interesting. That makes me feel better about a lot of things. I try to tell my kids out. I'm like, we live in the reality that we expect to be in. we find the evidence of the reality that we choose to be in all around us. So if we think the world is a good place, we'll find evidence of that all around us. If we think the world is a really hard place where nothing works out, we'll find evidence of that every day.

I think you're going to be a okay. Thank you. I'm excited for your new stuff. Oh my God. Thank you. Me too. Tour, new music. So much new music.

It's kind of exciting too, because. You're independent right now. Indie artist. But like you may not. You may, you may do a label deal. Like you're going down the road. Maybe.

Right? Yeah. We'll see. That's exciting. Yeah. For sure. I'm excited. Especially with a like coming off of a hit single.

I love being. Being with a label was great. Yeah. It's also good not to be. It's great not to be. I'm not with a label. Yeah. I.

love being independent also. I absolutely appreciate label teams that work. They're the best. And I have great relationships out there with labels. But I really love being independent. And I don't know that I'll ever be on a label again. Okay. Yeah.

Being indie is fun. It really, I just, I think I was on a label so long in my career that like, I, like, I'm getting back all the time. that I didn't have to be independent now. And I really enjoy the freedom of being independent. And I didn't even know, like, never say never. Not to say I'll never work with another label again because I absolutely think there are some killers out there in label land that like are just champions.

But the right team really matters. I think when you're putting together a successful strategy with the right team, that's when you win games. You can put together a good strategy with the wrong team and it just never clicks, right? So I think like when choosing a label, you have to just make sure you feel like the team, you really believe in the team as much as they believe in you. And when that happens and it all clicks, it's great. But I am really enjoying my independence.

I bet. Being independent is amazing. Yeah. I spent most of my career as an independent artist. And you'll likely go. I actually also believe in short-term deals. Yeah, definitely. I really do.

I think one-offs and stuff are the best. 100%. And if it works, do it again. Yeah, yeah. You can always re-up, but like you also, I think there's something about those deals that I would probably only ever do those deals if I did. Yeah. Another deal. 100%.

It's awesome. I can't wait to hear the new music. Oh, my God. I can't wait to show you. Thanks for coming. Thank you for having me. It was fun. You're awesome, Leah.

So are you. See ya. Bye. See you, Leah. Thank you for listening to artist friendly. I hope you enjoyed this week's episode. We'll see you next time. This car only take premium gas.

I love my engine. I'm not smoking on gas. I'm smoking up. If that's my kind, I don't want no bad times. I don't want to have bad.