Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Lionel Richie

Episode Date: March 25, 2026

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Lionel Richie. Richie is a legend in his own right, making several classic love songs through the years. However, he revealed the profound overwhelm of stardom in a near-500-page memoir, Truly, last year, documenting his journey from a “painfully shy” child to a stadium-sized musician. Ahead of a busy summer, Madden sits down with the music icon, American Idol judge, and his father-in-law for an unfiltered look at what it means to build a legacy. From a standing ovation at the Oscars to the real weight of fame, family, and survival in the industry, this is a conversation 20 years in the making.------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman ------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How did it feel the other night at the Oscars? Oh, good question. You know, the standing ovation. That was a moment. That was a moment. 40 years to the day. I mean, that's 40 years ago. Yeah.

Say you, say me, sitting in the audience, you know, and I said to Bruce and to Lisa, you walk up on stage, but it's not from the audience. It's from the back. And there's a standing ovation. Yeah, that was real. This is the academy. Yeah.

I'm not going on that stage. That is the most intimidating thing in life. Now, when I was there for the first time, 40 years ago, that's Jack Nicholson on the front room. That's Steven Spielberg. That's, you know, and you've got the picks and you've got the portiers and you've got, you're looking at Hollywood. That's the room. Okay, so they let you in this fraternity sorority. Yeah.

To walk out on that stage and the whole room started smiling. Yeah. And then they stood up. Yeah. Okay. Smiling means they like you. Yeah. Standing up is they respect you. Absolutely.

You follow me? I was touched by it. I was actually, I remember walking offstage and go to Lisa, what just happened? And she said, it happened again. Good to see you, man. You too. Thanks for coming. Oh, I wouldn't miss this, Joe.

This is a no-brainer family affair. It's more but like a visit. Yeah. In front of cameras. Yeah. You know. Our cameras. Uh-huh.

Okay. But they kind of disappear. They like, they go away. Well, talking to you, it's not, you know, the third eye is not on. So you don't have to worry about. And on top of that, it's always informative. Because I know you and Ben, every time you get around, I feel like I'm just being interviewed yet again. We're up to something.

Yeah. Well, it's not only that. You're just. you're pioneers. What I'm loving is you just keep carving. And I think you have the Italian raceguard driver's theory. Yeah. What's behind you doesn't count. No. So that's a good way of putting it. Yeah. No. And I love the whole idea of, you know, what you did five years ago, what you did 10 years ago, what you did two days ago. That's behind you. What are we building on for the future? And one thing I will say about you guys, the word hungry is an understatement.

I say starving to death. It's the way you all approach it. Mad dogs. Yeah. And that's what you want. That's what happens here. Yeah. I think you just get, I think it's like some early childhood,

hunger thing that never leaves where you just want to go. Well, get after it every, you know. You know, I always tell people every day, if you get into this business and you're in it for quick money, you know, I'll get famous and get out. Okay. Don't get in it.

Yeah. Because it's a hustle, number one and number two, discovery. Because you might find out you weren't the singer. You're the executive. Or you might think you're the singer. No, you're the writer. Or it just, you discover who you are in the process of trying to make it in this business. And then on the other hand, this whole expression, if you don't love this, don't even try.

Don't do it. Don't try it. Because, I mean, I'm now officially 200 years into the business. You know, when they call you Mr. Richie, how are you, Mr. Iji? That's officially 200 years in. But what it means is that why am I still doing this? Because it's in the blood, man. It's just a part of the business.

It's part of my life. DNA. Yeah, I also feel like the guys from your time were built different, you know? So it's interesting because you could say you've been here for however many decades. Yeah. But you outwork people that are that are in their second or third year when they should be the one. To me, I look at the definition of work is we're always working. You know, we're always working.

But I see the way you work and I go, that is just that's somebody who's had to work. It's almost like a love language, to be honest, to put in that kind of work and the practice of it, the dedication. You have to look at, first of all, you came from, I came from, as a band. That's number one. Yeah. So you're not working for you. You're working for five. You're working for, in my case, I'm working for five.

Yeah. And so, you know, I made it. It's really we made it. Yeah. Follow me? That's number one. Number two, we were in an era where, look at the competition, man. I mean, the greatest thing that ever happened was I came from a band.

We had to brainwash ourselves. We're the baddest in the world. You know, we just finished a show with Marvin Gaye. We killed them, you know, you know, because you've got to have that mind. that we're the baddest things in the world. You have to. That's your core. And so I've always had the kind of feeling that when the red light comes on, that's the red light.

That's the red light. Now, when that red light turns green, you don't know when that red light's going to come back on again. That means hustle. And along the way you discover, you discover that you can do things. I didn't join the band to be the lead singer. I was a saxophone hold. Yeah, how did that happen? Strictly biased.

I always forget that you play saxophone. I always brag so in case someone calls me to the mat. They say, man, didn't you play saxophone? I said, no, man, I held that saxophone better than anybody else you ever saw in life. You know, I could spin it. I could dance with it. And every once in a while, we go, did it, did it? Yeah, yeah.

Did it, you know. When did the piano start? It was always there. I just did it secretly off to the side because Myelan Williams was the keyboard play for the commonwealth, so I didn't have to have that preface. So I didn't have to have that pressure. But I could play by ear, but I didn't know how precious it was to be able to play by ear. I didn't know.

It just, you keep thinking that I'm the only one in the group that's not quite adequate enough. Why? I can't read the right music. So if you can't read the right music and you're not the lead singer and you're the hornholder, what's the future? Hang with these guys as long as you can and find something else to kind of pivot to as time goes on. but I didn't realize it, but I got in the business and found out that playing by ear, everybody was doing it, you know?

And so you start fooling around with Barry Gordy and Marvin Gaye and Paul McGarton. And you start realizing, oh, these guys play by ear? What are you talking about? And then you learn that, well, I can hear. And once you learn that that's that Martian side where you can kind of tap into the other side, it just becomes magic where but I was very insecure from my beginning stages didn't know what the heck I was doing but again by being in this cocoon of band group you know you kind of develop your your mojo get your thing going but it's um it kind of worked out for the insecurity side

it's interesting because I always wonder like when did you realize you were the songwriter you know I'm just going to stop for a minute. You keep saying this is the podcast. You know you do this every time we sit down. I know. I never got to actually, but I will say. I feel like we're dinner, right? We are, but I will say this is I do feel like we've gotten to have over the years.

We've actually known each other for almost 20 years. That's ridiculous. And you have been my father-in-law, which is crazy. If you can imagine, I can't imagine. Imagine what that would be for you. No. So imagine that you, I'm trying to think of somebody that could be your father-in-law. That would give you the size of when you're a kid, you meet this girl.

And then you're like, oh, you're going to meet my dad. I didn't even really put that together until I put it together. And I don't know how I feel about this. But I can only imagine how you felt. But it's interesting because from my perspective, by the time I had met you, I mean, you have this legacy. You have these songs. You have this big.

You were so nervous. Let me tell you. There were so many levels of nerves. I felt so sorry for you that I was going to joke with you. I was going to wreck you kid around. And I said, I can't kid around this kid. This guy might fall out dead on the floor even. You're correct.

Yeah. And you kept saying, oh, man, you know, like, you know, you are, you're lying on Richie. And you actually know when I'm nervous. Oh, no, I got you down. Over the years, you've seen me in some key moments. Well, listen. Weddings or this or that. And you're trying ever so, you're trying to represent.

I'm terrible. And I had to go over to you and go, just breathe, Joel, just breathe. They'll be over in just a moment. I'm terrible in those real life moments, but I have to give like a speech or something. But let me talk about just about two seconds as father-in-law. You know, what you pray for in life is, you know, obviously your daughter falls in love with a guy. And, you know, and there's either an oh-no moment or oh, yes moment. you came in so respectful it was ridiculous.

I was raised well like that. Yeah, and too scared to death, hat in hand. Terrified. Literally. Hat in hand. Hat in hand. I took the hat off. Mr. Ridgey, Ray.

And, you know, and I was nervous. Were you nervous? And so the bonding moment, I was going to reveal this, the bonding moment for me. And you was at the end, you said, You just want to let you know, Mr. Richie, I got this. And I said, no, you don't. Yeah. And you said, well, what are you talking about?

I said, no, no, no, no guy that falls in love has it. You are now being controlled by the other side. You see me through all the, you see you go through it. You said, okay, now I said, so here's how it works. When you can't figure it out coming to me, I've been living with her longer than you have. Yeah. And you took me up on it a couple of times. and you said, oh, okay, I got this.

But, you know, it was a bonding moment for us because, you know, what a father-in-law really prays for is that the guy loves his daughter. That's the key. That absolutely is the bottom line. Bottom line. Yeah. And so from that point on, we bonded right away. And then, of course, we just happened to be in the same business.

Yeah. So now, unlike awkward conversation with a guy who's maybe an lawyer or doctor, we actually have something we can talk about. Well, but I will say this, there are different types of us in this business. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you get the wrong guy in this business and you're just like, oh, God, I married, my daughter married this guy. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But what you hope for in, in, but like, you're right at the core, whether it's this business or that business or that business, if, as long as she didn't pick a shyster and a guy who doesn't want to work. Oh, please. Or, you know, or a guy who isn't honest enough to, you know. We know them. We know them all. Yeah, we met them all.

You met them all on the way. You can't play with us. But the thing that I've appreciated over the last two decades is every now and then we'll find ourselves. I'll never forget one night, we were on a family vacation in the Bahamas, remember? And we stayed up until like 3 a.m. Because everyone had gone to bed, but you're kind of a night out sometimes. Yeah.

And I was up and we were talking. And I felt like, this is. the complicated part. So I'm lucky because I get to come from, you know, growing up where I grew up in the sticks in Maryland on this journey all the way, not too different from, you know, your story with your band. Tuskegee where you are as I say, yeah. Different stories, but similar. You understand the experience. Yeah. Coming from this little place and then you come into the world and you're just like, what the heck. Well, how the fuck does this place work? Yeah. And then in the first few years, you kind of just believe everyone is who they say they are and then you find out that's not how this

works. No, no, no. But I've gotten the perspective of that that's unique, whereas Nicole grew up in your house. Right. So she already had a, she had a different experience with the world because she was on your ride. Well, this was on play. This is her playground. Right. This whole business of hocus pocus. She knows all the hocus and the pocus, you know, because she does, which has been very helpful to me. Yeah. Yeah. She got in when we, we were, you know, in our late 20s, she started helping me navigate. Yeah. She's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

She was not blinded by the light. She's sharp. Yeah, she's sharp. So the last 20 years, I've gotten a front row seat watching your life. Yeah. So I get to watch you, you know, with you sometimes. Yeah, yeah. And then from the outside.

Yeah. And I find that what you've achieved in the world is something that is, it's very thin air. It's very few men have achieved what you. you've achieved, which can, to me, from my perspective, can feel like it could be lonely and isolating at times. Yeah, yeah. It can be heavy at times. Yeah.

It can probably be also full of amazing experiences and all the, all the things, all the, all the great stuff that you can imagine. You've come up to me many times because you can read now. You've been it long enough to read. Not only can I read you stressed out. Yeah. You can read me stressed out. Yeah.

I'll get a phone call. I'll make everybody privy to this. I'll get a phone call from you going, you okay, pop, pop, which means I know you're off the cliff somewhere, you know, and it's true, you know, trying to navigate, you know, the present while scheming on the future. And carrying the past. And carrying the back. Yeah. There you go. So, you know, a lot of times, it's, a lot of times there are people who just say, I don't want to do this anymore because it's too heavy to carry. My philosophy has always been, I spent the first, luckily, the first 30, 40 years of my career, okay, this is famous, but just famous and recognizable famous. Okay, now, I tried it one time to say, I'm out, thank you very much,

and I'm kind of drift over the side, and then I found out something. Whether I say I'm in it or not, I'm at the restaurant, I'm in it. You're in it. When I leave my house, I'm in it. You can't shut it off. I can't shut it off. And what you pray for in this business is not that I can't shut it off. The public can't shut it off.

Yeah. So what was I thinking about, you mean, the light is still green and I'm still trying to, what, turn the red? So I had to make that decision to go, okay, I am going to now turning this full time. The rocket is flying now. Let's find out how fast this rocket can go. and how high can we get? And it's been a nice, consistent run, because like I say, to get here,

and first of all, to live to get here. That's the first thing. To outlive the damage of success and fame in this business in a time when what I've seen is, is obviously we know the cautionary tales. We all know, we don't need to name the name. I mean, you know it's not survival. It's hard.

Yeah. Let me just say this. It's not survivable. So, you know, it's a lot of times you get here and think, oh, okay, I just want to be famous. And then then you realize, okay, the rocket is flying. Okay. Now, this is really fast. Okay.

And then you realize there's a moment where you don't have control of the rocket. Yeah. You don't get to choose. You don't get to choose. Which is what I was saying when I think about. the times that we've gotten to have over the years where I'd say this, for you to go out to dinner, there's a few people that I know, very few people, it's, it's, it's, it's, like I said, it's thin air. For you to go out to dinner and actually be able to have an uninterrupted, meaningful conversation or

hang with your family, imagine what was that? So-and-so's going through something or this or that. You don't get to have uninterrupted self-family time, family time. Not out in the world anyways. No, no. Forget about it. So to be able to catch up a night or a moment with you, like I was saying in the Bahamas, it stands out to me, I remember.

There's a few actual moments I could name that I remember getting to feel as if I, in the moment, I was like, oh, this is the guy that was in the van with the Commodores. This is the guy. I heard the guy in Tuskegee. because as people, as men or whatever, there's pieces of us that we can evolve, we can grow, but there's moments where you'll see me as the kid from Maryland, and then there's moments where I'm the guy I have to be right now

in this moment to be in my shoes in this life. And by the way, that's healthy. Yeah. If you can actually see those two people. Yeah. Because there are days when the last thing you really want to do is wake up as Wynel Richie. You want to wake up, I wake up every morning as,

is the kid from Alabama. Right. Now, the wonderful part about it is I get to stagger into the bathroom, depressed because this is happening, and I'm not sure about this. Yeah, yeah. And the kids are, and what about the thing? And then you look in the mirror and go, oh, hallelujah, Lionel Rishie.

Lionel. I forgot. Let's go. Good to see you, Lionel. You know, because, you know, thank God. You're in the mirror. You know, there could be a thousand and one people. That real life, too. That real life was scared me.

So do I want to give that brother up? No, I do not. Thank God. I made friends with them. We made it. We made it. Thank God. Yeah, that's funny.

No, but it's really, it's really a moment where it's a lovehead relationship. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, again, it's Nicole's birthday or it's Sparrow's birthday or the case maybe. And yeah, what I try to do is I try to find me a nice place over the corner. but you can't celebrate it the way you want to celebrate it because we're in a restaurant. It's impossible. You can't. And you don't want to upstage their birthday, you know.

But at the same time, you know, I have one feeling about, I have one look out of my eye that I know that I've spent my whole life with my kids. And that is when they go out with me, it's always, oh. Here we go. Here we go. And I remember taking miles out one day of all things. I don't know who talked me into it. But we're going to SeaWorld. And I let somebody talk me into it.

It's time for you to be, you know, a parent. And you go to SeaWorld on the bus. You go on the bus with the rest of the kids and the parents. The meeting greet is eight hours long, man. And I said, yes. I made the mistake. What was I thinking? And I'm on the school bus that we get down.

And there's Shamu or whatever the brother's name was, you know. And I'm thinking. Still in captivity. Right. And you relate to him. You know what? And I knew I was in trouble because on the way down, the parents, could I get a picture? I just want to get a picture.

And just, Mr. Richard, can I get it? Okay. Now we get off the bus. And when I get off the bus, the first thing the driver said was, Lionel, you might want to stay here just for a moment. So Miles looked at me and said, oh, oh, right? And then three of his friends who was so cute, they said, okay, okay, Miles said, okay, you guys, you got to protect my dad.

And I said, wait, I'm here to protect you. These little mice are running around here talking about they have to protect me. And they're buffing. They are now my buff on this thing. Dad, stay here. Dad, stay here. Hold on, hold it just a minute. And then he said, this lady, this lady.

And so I said, I'm with my kids. And okay, I understand. But meanwhile, I'm getting the same attention as the whale, right? That's right. Or the shark or Shamu has his own father today. And I didn't realize, I did not realize. That's fucked up. Forget you.

It's fucked up. I couldn't have said that better. You know what? I say this to say that. This is why I say this only so people can understand. It's not that I'm saying, we laugh about it. We're not complaining. No, no, no.

I've never heard you once talk shit about any one person's ever come up to you. I have a little bit like, man, there's some hygiene questions there or whatever. I'm just saying, I've gotten to have an experience. You can no longer have, you haven't been able to have in decades. And I would say that when I'm around you and over the years we've gotten to become close, so I feel like I know you in a way. where I can be honest. You feel my pain.

And I feel your pain and at the same time, what I try to explain, you set out to make music, you tried your best. You couldn't, it's not that you couldn't have planned, but you shot for the stars and you hit the stars.

And so the legacy, the size, the songs, the way, the cultural, where they live in the culture across decades, not just a decade or two or three.

And then now, American Idol, the way that you've been in the world also, not just American culture, but the legacy is bigger than, and it's something that you couldn't have ever been prepared for, you couldn't have planned for it. And so when I see that as a guy who's also gotten to know, the real person that's living in the life and had these moments across two decades of shared, you know, all kinds of emotional, emotion stuff because I had to call you when Nicole was pregnant. I had to call you when I was going to ask her to marry me. We've had to go, families go through stuff. So you're dealing with real life, right? Real stuff. So we get to know each other. And so I still, but I still have a front row view

of when you go back out. I don't have to go out there with you. No, no, no, no, no. But I mean, I can take it one step further. I mean, try to go to a friend's funeral. Right. Okay. It's, it's about the friend in the box or it's about the person. And no, it's the celebrity shows up and it's the weirdest thing. It's a, it's a funeral, you know. And so you have to debate some days, do I want to go to the wedding or do I want to go to the funeral? Why? Because as I told my friend, I don't think I want to come. He said, no, no, no, I'm insisting that you come to the wedding.

I said, I'm telling you, you don't want me to come to your wedding. And he says, no, no, no. So what? Here's his wedding pictures. there he is at the altar there he is and coming back down the aisle and then the reception

there's pictures of me and the mother-in-law is a picture he's no longer he's no longer he better not be a goddamn piano there because everyone's going to be looking at did you say that

and you know you're in trouble but what I always think about I'm just being honest I got it what I always think about is after watching that And, you know, I call you sometimes and I say, how you doing? Are you okay? Everything cool. It's on time. But what I always think about, it's not, it's, we, we joke about all of it,

only because I want, I do think that people don't stop to think about the experience of living in that life and carrying this legacy that people have taken and it's bigger than any person could be. And it's an amazing thing. It's like something that no one gets. to do in their life. But to me, I always wonder how the weight, the weight of it, and the, it's just, you're never going to escape. No. And again, like I say for everyone listening, it's a wonderful thing. It's amazing. Yeah, yeah. But at some point, to reconcile that and sometimes in moments where, again, you just wanted to take your kid on a field trip, be a dad, and participate. And you can't. No. And to go even one step further, it gets to be really kind of trying because it's one thing, what I always say one time, it's lonely in a sea of world of people who love you.

Yeah. Okay. And it's not loneliness. What you really want is, you know, I love your dad is more powerful than any the world loving you. You know what I'm saying? That is. And it's real, man. You know what I'm saying? I mean, that is, you know, when you, a fan grabbing you and hugging you and happy to see you come home. Thank you very much. It's wonderful, but you know, but your kid coming up to you go, oh, my God, or do you see them crying when they see you?

That's the story. That's it. And it's an adjustment of time. You know, you know this business. It never stays here in the center. So when you were going to sleep that night with the number one record, you woke up the next morning and the new number one record is over here. Wasn't number one anymore. Right. And then you have to, they use that terrifying phrase, what you got next?

Which means, okay, I got to get another one. And then if you get that right, another one. And then if you get that right, it's another. Meanwhile, that's four years past. That's five years past. Okay, now your kid, you, okay, that was good. But where's the little babo boobo booboo? No, boobabba is going to college.

Yeah. Bob is graduated from high school. Uh-huh. And so now you've got to realize, was it that much time? And so you start dedicating these moments as I remember Sophie was playing soccer. And am I going to miss the soccer? This is the final tournament. This is it, you know.

And, well, how do you get there? How do you do that? And so Pop Pop shows up. in a helicopter two hills over, you know, because the last thing you want to do is show up in a helicopter in the middle of the family. That's not what you want, but you got to get there. And so you land and you show up and you kill it. And but you've got to show that night. You know, and East Chop somewhere. And you're trying to balance these very important moments. And so, you know, you don't really realize, I always say to people, what comes with success are sacrifices.

Yeah, oh yeah. And there are some people who get to a certain point, they say, I don't want to sacrifice anymore. And I get it. You know, unfortunately, what happened in my case and everything, the light was still green. And that's number one. And number two, I'm in love with this. This is not something I did until I got famous. this is what I do when I'm off.

When I'm off, I go to the studio or I go on tour or, you know, someone said to me, you know, when are you going to take a vacation? I said, I booked three tours. What do you think? Yeah. You mean go on a vacation and pay for it, number one, or go on vacation and lie by the pool and take selfies all day with people? What the hell is?

You know, that's not going to happen, you know, so where am I going to go to hang out at the pool? My house. That's right. So other than that, the world, and by the way, the blessing, don't let me sound like I'm complaining. Not at all. If you're lucky enough to get one record, one, one record, Frank Sinatra said this to me. If you're lucky enough to get one record that the whole world ask you to sing over and over again, you got yourself a career.

He said, you lucky son of a bitch. He said, not only do you have more than one, but you wrote them all. Now, that's not lucky. That's blessings. That's a blessing. And then you've got, it didn't become a hit in America. It became a hit around the world. That's a blessing.

And then you get to the point where you want to share that and experience that. And it becomes really what you realize is this is not going to be my second choice, fallback. This is it. And then what would my life be like without it? I don't know. Because I can't, I didn't have a plan B. And so at this stage right now, enjoying watching the family grow at the same time not being there every day. And I say this to people all the time.

My dad didn't do peanut butter and jelly sandwiches at school. No. He provided for us. Yeah. You follow me? That's also the other thing when you say it all. And I know you're not complaining because I know how. No, no, no, no.

But what I have come to, not a conclusion, but what I've come to understand, there's only a very short, list of people on the planet who have achieved what you have. It just is what it is. And that have survived it. Yeah. Because it kills, it's killed them. It will kill you. It's lethal. This is a lethal business. And I also understand that I leave room for trying to understand because I love this stuff. I love music. I love this thing that we get to be a part of. Right. It's legendary shit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And. And, I love this stuff. I love this stuff. I love this thing that we get to be a part of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when I see what I've gotten to see as your son-in-law, as your son, as your friends sometimes,

as your road dog and sometimes, you know, I've gotten to come along in different spots and get a perspective that's unique. Because I've also done some of it, not on the level, but I've done it, you know. And so I have some experience. And when I look at it, I just go, I don't know if someone chose that or if it chose them. and that they, and there's some divine. Well, let me clear. It is divine guidance. Yeah.

I'm going to. That's what I think. It's divine guidance. If you could tell me right now, man, what were you thinking when you started with the Commodores? Well, looking at my math grades, I was not going to be some incredible economics, even though economics was my thing, you know, and the nervousness of, well, how do I get into business? Economics.

Can you imagine that? That's not even a subject anymore. is it right now, you know, because it changes every day now. You know, math, okay, everything that I'm going to put down as a calculation. Oh, they threw me out, get this now, of math class because I brought a Commodore calculator to class. It's the size of my chest. Yeah.

Big ass calculation. And the first thing that happened where they said, Mr. Rich, you're cheating. I said, no, this is the future. This is the calculator. And they said, we're interested in what you know about math. well, this was not, this was too slow for me, I'm out. You know, so what I learned over this craziness, as I was leaving the room, I said, this is a mistake, kicking me out of class of mistake, I'm the future.

And they were all laughing, and the joke. But then it became apparent to me, life begins at the end of your comfort zone. Yeah. Okay, are you comfortable? You're not growing. Okay. So Commodores, first song, what year was that? That's 75.

Wow. 74, 75, 76. Okay, is it the same as 80? No, was it the same as 85, 90, 2005, 2005, no. Each time you had to reinvent, I had to reinvent myself. So when someone says, how does it feel playing the same songs every night? No, no, it's not the same song. It's not the same time.

It's not the same error. It's not the same clothes. It's not the same mental attitude. I started out, I had no kids, I had no divorces. I had nothing. I was a free spirit to the world. And all of a sudden, you're now walking through this world with, okay, those jokes that you used to hear all the artists talk about, I got a couple of them.

Yeah. You know, and it's not as easy as you thought it was going to be, you know, and how could that guy let that happen? Well, it was very simple. How could the Beatles break up? How could the Beatles break up when then, how could the temptations break up? how could the miracles break up? And then you realize, I know exactly how they broke up.

You know, it's just that it's life. How to navigate this, unfortunately, you're going to have to scare yourself to death to get to the next level. And I'm going to give you the analogy in my head. All you see is made it, made it, made it. Right. Okay, that's not how it works.

It's made it. Then that's the top of the mountain. Then you have to go back, down in the valley and you have to fight your way up to the next made it it's over there the next mountain top is over there you don't jump from mountain top to mountain top now here's the only problem you can die down in the valley yeah that's when you organize yourself to change your concepts and your patterns and then you go back up again and then you get to the next mountain top and just when you're trying to take a good break saying i made it someone walks over and says i bet you can't do that again

you've got to be kidding me. And then that's the 80s, and that's called the 90s, that's called 2000. In fact, if you don't do it again, you're worthless. You're worthless. You know what I mean? That's how it feels. And everyone keeps talking about your catalog. No, no, no.

It was not a catalog. It was one song at a time. Yeah. And you know what's in between those one songs? Terra. Yeah. Absolute terror. And so a lot of people can't take the pressure.

There's pressure. It's pressure and sacrifice. And they all and sacrifice. and what they all have as the storyline of life. Well, when I got out of rehab, I was at a near death. You know why that is? It is near death because it's not a navigating, you can't read a book and say, this is how to do it.

Because your personal story is going to be different from my personal story. We all kind of get to the same place, maybe, but can you survive your story? That's the hard part. And so what I'm celebrating always is when people ask me, how did you do it one day at a time, but also have, you know, preparation is everything. Preparation.

Talk to some people who actually have been there before. My greatest, greatest success was that I had sitting in that hallway, sitting in that studio. That's Smokey Robinson over there. That's Marvin Gaye sitting over. That's Stevie Wonder sitting over. These are my label mates. And it was only one or two studios you could record.

And it's called Motown Studios, L.A., California. Who would you say stood out to you as the most encouraging? Smoky. Smokey. Marvin, in terms of songwriting and just, but he didn't tell it to you. You just had to watch him. The fact that they allowed me in the room. I was called Little Brother.

Let Little Brother in, set open to call him Little Brother, and I watched him freestyle. you know, he just waited, did they write it down? No, you didn't write it down. Did you feel like you belong there and you were just waiting for the ball? I think God gave me a moment to kind of watch the professionals play before the light hit me. I appreciated that. Because I remember one time sitting in a writing session with the corporation.

This is a group of guys, a group of artists that get together and they would write lyrics to tracks at Motown. I was invited one time. And I thought, oh, they finally, they want to see me do this, right? And I walk in the studio and around the table and they play the track and they get the da-da's. And I spent the entire time going, oh, up, up, uh, uh, uh, yeah. And then, okay, that's it. Thanks, guys. Why? Proves. Right.

I learned how to tell a story. It's only three minutes and 45 seconds. It's only four lines in the first verse. It's not a whole lot of stuff. Yeah. So I wasn't quite ready for that kind of songwriting. You know, you get your eye, your ear focused on, what are you looking for? That's what you learned there. So I call it Motown University.

And then at the same time, studying Barry Gordy was also very cool, you know, because this is a record guy who was business. Yeah. No matter what economics course I could take at Tuskegee or Auburn. that's Barry Gordy. And so it's really powerful when you can start thinking about what did they give me. They gave me the time to see what professional look like, pros. And from that point, my edge was easy.

Then all I had to do. But again, that's that little kid inside of you going, I could have given it to him. I mean, I could have done it. I was just wanted. The answer is they kicked my ass. I was as much as I thought I was ready that's the NBA that's the real

that's the real game so no matter what my jump shot I thought I had I wasn't at that level but they taught me so much about purpose and just just narrowing my vision

because the most important thing is when you're going to songwriting just give you a point you gotta know what you're looking for period if you don't know what you're looking for you can't hit it you know, my music teacher,

when they were trying to teach me how to read music, I was going, did, did, did, did, did, did, did. And my teacher would say, put the horn down. Hum it to me. Because if you can't hum it,

you can't play it. That's the answer. Well, melody is the same way. You know what I'm saying? If you can't hum it, so that's the most important part of the whole thing. And for me, it was just a moment in time

of getting those folks to share to share. So now you see me on American Idol now. I feel really great about being there because that's me standing could be back there at a time when I'm going I got this and I'm going no you don't. Not yet.

There's some things you need to know. And I'm now that guy at Motown Studios passing on that wisdom to them. I'm gonna'amena. And like my music, my hair can change with me and has to be able to continue my rhythm. For so,

potion nine of Sebastian Professional has all what my my hair needs. Nutrition

Profound Protection contrae against the encrespae 99% less of rotura

and Puntas Abirtions No. Potion Nine of Sebastian Professional,

the secret professional of who not they're not

they're they're doing TV I do do so do I

do what it is TV TV did we say TV and we field data saying that yeah filming shit yeah well well tv when i started was abc mbc cbs and this new thing called cnn yeah you know and then you go to europe and it's bbc you know

right that's it i got it on one hand i like it because what it does it's almost like radio it is it's radio you know if you there's many times you can stand on that stage you know and let that camera just wave around you a couple of times, you're getting to millions and millions of people, right? I mean, now the problem is we got too many cameras and too many avenues. So getting people to focus. But if you can get on that screen and present your personality, present, you know, your charm, your likability. And I tell these kids on American Idol, the most important part is this two halves of this likeability. They come to the show to A, to hear the song that they like,

but two, they want to hang out with you. Yeah. Why? Because they like you. They want to feel like they know you because they do feel, they live with you every day. Every day. And then you do the best thing you could do possible is,

you don't sit up on that stage and go, thank you very much. Now my next song is, no, you break the glass and go, girl in the red dress, oh my God, you look great. Yeah. I mean, you can see me. Now, once you can see them and they can see you, that's an evening. That's one of the things I've learned from you.

And I've seen you do it because I think it is actually who you are, is you see people. You've got to see them. So you stop and you acknowledge them. Again, I go back to when we go out to dinner or when we're in the world, you have a different kind of respect for the thing that I think it's a time thing. It's an experience thing. It's what you've seen probably over the decade, seeing all the experience adds up to a certain kind of gratitude that only someone who's been in your shoes could have.

But I see you acknowledge people in the entire restaurant as you walk through. You see someone if they look at you and instead of look away because you're like, you acknowledge them. Well, Nicole. Nicole. It's interesting that you do that. Yeah, Nicole, Miles, and Sophie, they walk. go, dad, who are you talking to?

Yeah. And I go, I'm talking to the people at the other table. They're all their anniversary dinner. And they go just, but they didn't say anything to you. I said, no, they didn't say anything to me. They waved. They looked at me. They looked at me.

And instead of looking at them and turning my head and keep walking, instead of just waving and keeping my mouth closed, I go, hi, how are you? Yeah. So all they hear behind me is, how are you? Good to see you. Hey, good to see you. They go, dad, nobody's talking to you. well they talk to me with their eyes dad's got a problem right but what do you think that is

well you know it is i was i was invisible once okay the worst thing in life is to and i i was that kid i mean once you experience it there's a person who they they're scared the death of you right and they want to say something to you and you can see it on their face they're want to say something and for me to ignore them would be like the worst that there's an old expression I have you know sometimes you meet the person you idolized the most and you're sorry you met them yeah you don't want to be that because I made a promise to myself I'm never going to be that asshole never you just is not going to be that you know and so if it takes a little time out of the my going in to acknowledge for example let's mean I mean I mean I mean I mean

meet a dignitary. Now, what you don't realize is there's a bunch of folks between the person I'm supposed to meet and the car. There's rings. You follow me? Yeah. And so who are you going to meet first? There's security.

The next people you're going to be walking the door. That may be the janitor. That might be the guys inside. Okay, now there's a corridor of these folks. Yep. Do you walk past men, ignore them? No. It's like walking in the venue.

You say hi to every person working there. That's the crew. That's the guys. This is the thing. And you can tell, you can tell their condition in their heads. He's never going to say anything to me because they met the other folks like us. And so did they say anything to them? No. So they're expecting that for me. For me to turn around and say, how you doing, man? Good to see you. Oh. And then how many people is, I'm being attacked by four people backstage. So I turn around and say something ridiculous. Like, you got your phone by there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's take a picture. Yeah. Now that is more important than the dignitary. You follow me? Absolutely. It's something that I've learned. I wouldn't say I was confrontational, but if someone's looking at you too long and you forget that you're a rock star, you know, what the fuck are you looking at?

Right. Well, you have red hair. You have tattoos. And you're also a singer of a band. They might like. And that's the thing you have to learn. He was like, no, no, they're actually just saying hi, but they're too shy to say hi. My problem was, my problem was I couldn't pick a fight because I couldn't kick your ass.

So my problem was I lived it long enough to wear a night, all the bullies, all the bullies. And I used to go, oh, my God, I got to go at this club and I don't. And then finally one day I came back and kicked all the bullies ass. You know why? Yeah. And how? I came with security. Yeah.

Yeah, man. Yeah. over the years, every time I go through an airport, I go to a hotel, I go to a venue. Oh, your father-in-law was here. He's the best. That's what you, it starts to, you clock it. It's a reputation. And it's also people's, when they get that one story, they tell it for the rest of their life.

And that applies equally the other way too. Right. Okay. Now, let me tell you, without social media. without anything we have of new technology. You know what travels fast? Asshole. Yeah.

That guy was a dick. Okay, that guy was a freaking dick, man. And I promise you, you know, I always related to planting seeds. You know, when you plant fucking seeds, you get fucky flowers. Yeah. Nothing grows. So if you plant a career of fuck your flowers. That's wise.

It's coming back to haunt you, you follow me? And so these people keep planting these seeds. And I keep going, man, it's only going to come back years from now as these big giant plants with your name on it. Yeah. And so, you know, just keep planting goodwill. Goodwill did it. It takes you five seconds less to say, hey, thanks, man. Or how you doing?

Yeah. That's it. But I do think that it comes from. It's not contrived. It comes from a place in you that is, again, like I said, I think. there's something about from what I've witnessed over the last 20 years is there's something bigger that I say this you earned every second of it you wrote the songs you did the work but there's something bigger it's something that I see that's like feels a bit divine it feels like uh so it's something

like that same thing I feel like that calling or whatever it is I do feel like that the joy that you give to people. I've seen it at, you know, shows. I've seen it in a restaurant when you say hi to someone. It's part of you. It's part of the whole thing. I'll tell you, I tell you a little tidbit that's in the book. Yeah. It's interesting. You like that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great book. You know what I'm saying. Look, I got over there as I got one over there too. You know exactly. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. As I, as I do, we got a big audience down. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. As I go with my kids, I go, that's me. Yeah. That's me. Okay. So, good looking. Thank you very much. I came by Sunday law right there.

The thing that happens a lot of times is I tell people when they get into the business. There's one thing you didn't calculate. I hope you like people. Yeah. Because if you don't like people, here's how it's going to sound. You spend the first half of your career going, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me. And then you finally get famous. Don't look at me. Don't look at me. Don't look at me. It is funny. I'm going, okay now, what did it? The universe gave me, look at me. The universe gave me, look at me. you what you were asking for. Now, what is that about people you don't like? Or you want to be famous and rich without the people? It doesn't work like that. It doesn't work like that. You have to be

able to engage. And I'll tell you what was in the book. I started out not as the musician. I'm sitting there with my friends. They were all deciding, well, I'm going to be a commission second lieutenant. I'm going to fly, you know, jets. I'm going to, no, no, I'm not flying. Yes. Vietnam War is happening. I'm not not going up in no airplane by myself. That's out. Fighter pilot, you know, top gun. Oh, watch the movie. Top gun ain't happening, right?

The next thing, medicine, forget about it. You know, I don't like blood. This is not going to work out. Law. I don't want to read that much and don't want anybody else's problems. I got enough of my own. Yeah. You know?

So at that time, I'm figuring what is going to be that thing? And I was infatuated with the clergy. I was infatuated. Oh, that's right. I was in, I'm dropping the thing here tonight. I was fascinated. I was going to be an Episcopal priest. Why?

Because all of my mentors were Father caution, Bishop Merritt, Father caution. I've been naming all the names now. Father Vernon Jones. These are all my mentors, my counselors, but they were all very sophisticated and very knowledgeable. But I thought maybe I might be a minister, go to a seminary and blah, blah, blah.

Okay. And then I met the Commodos and my, my freshman year. Quite the opposite. Right. And everything was fine. Yeah. Everything was still on track until the girl on the front row said,

sing it, baby. And I went back to Father Jones and Bishop Murray. And I said, I don't think I'm going to be priest material. Yeah. I'm not going to be priest material. Yeah. Because up to that point, no girl. I didn't play basketball.

I'm not football. Right. You know, the girl screams. That was it. I'm in the business. I don't know what this is, but this was something I'm going to do. do, but it's people. And from that point on, the whole thing started making sense. I like people. And when people come to me and say, oh, my God, man, he wrote this song, you told my story.

And so finally, I did We Are the World with Michael and Quincy and the whole thing. And I think was Father Caution came to me. I don't know, he wrote me a great note. He said, after listening to your song, We Are the World, your ministry is doing quite well. In other words, it's just a different form. A different form. Just a different form. And so, you know, I like what people say to me, hey, man, you really helped me see this clearly. Or somebody you didn't expect, I was about to commit suicide, man, and your song came on.

Was I there? No, but the song was there. And so you don't really realize how these folks. interpret, I mean, I knew it was something crazy when it's the guy's funeral. He's in system. You would think it's going to be Jesus's love or easy or something. My man wanted Brickhouse. Yeah.

Yeah. He wanted all night long. I mean, I can tell you, you know, that's the song. And you go, you go dog, you know. I would have been a mega church pastor. I could see that. I can see that. And you know what?

You'd also be in jail about that third year. I just want to let you know. Yeah, yeah, I saw that look on your face. Yes. He's going to jail. Brothers going to jail. Never would have seen me, didn't know me at all. You probably would have, yeah, yeah.

It had to get you. You probably let me out of a few moments in my life. Yeah, no, no, no. Now, I found that A, the roughest thing you want to do is handle somebody else's money. No, yeah. That's number one. Yes. Number two, you don't want to take it in the name of anything.

No way. Okay. because no matter what you do in goodwill, no good deed goes unpunished. And then if something comes up, they're going to ask that one question, where's the money? I don't know.

The money, and you're going to jail. So you did the right thing. Sitting in this chair. We both did. And there's no bars here. You can go home whenever you want to. That's right. That's good.

One of my favorite stories, not in that book. It might be in my book one day. Good. I'll take your book. Do you remember when you met my dad for the first time? Yes, I did. Thanksgiving? Yes, I did. Yes, I did.

You did a black eye? Okay, so Joel has been able to answer questions for me on many occasions and your upbringing and my upbringing, we've had moments. Yeah. And I remember going over to him, he said, hey, geez, there's a black eye. Did he run into a door or did he fall down? And your answer was? Bar fight. I never heard that before from my parents. So I just, for some weird reason, it just didn't come out.

I was so, okay, so it was still, it was still, it was still early enough in our relationship where I felt like there was likely something I could do where you would reject me. No, no, no, no, no. You know, it was early enough where I questioned, you know, had I gained your respect? Was, you know, it's your father-in-law and it's Lionel and you're navigating this and you're building this family and the kids are this high. And I reconciled with my dad, which was the whole thing, which was so beautiful, which you were a big supporter of. And over the years, we've had these moments where I gained something from you, where you actually said something to me, or I watched something.

Or I was around watching you move through the world. And you've always encouraged me to take care of my family. Yeah. But see, you have to understand something. Family is deep. Yeah. Okay. And complicated.

There's no surface to family. There's no, la, la, la, la, la. No, no. If we're going to be family, it gets deep. And I don't care what kind of facade you may have put on. It's going to get deep sooner or later. So I remember going through the situation, my dad, you know, my dad was not well. And I remember the guy said, well, if it makes you feel comfortable,

you don't have to bring your dad to the dinner downstairs. What do you mean? Well, it might be embarrassing for you. you to have him at the dinner to, that's my dad. Right. What are you talking about? I mean, I'll cancel the dinner and just me, me and my dad having dinner downstairs. You don't have to be it.

That's your dad. Yeah. Okay, you understand me? That's your mom. Yeah. What comes with your dad and your mom is their relationship, their baggage. Right. And your cousins.

See, people don't understand. When you're getting married, you don't marry one person. Yeah. You married the whole family, the whole, all the soup, all the soup, all the nuts and bolts and trauma. And you don't realize, and until it all shows up in a room one day, and you find yourself going,

oh, yeah, what's my dad going to say? What's my mom? You know, you don't know. And so you're on pins and needles. I saw that. And so the first thing I wanted you to do. And he loved you. He raised me on your music.

So that was the other, that's the other odd thing. But I could see the total fear of my dad has a black eye. I can say he fell down the steps. you know and you turned to me and said bar fight okay when you come that honest they I said oh okay but it gave me a sense of first of all let me just say this to you one thing you don't have to do you're the bravest man I ever met in my whole life why you married my daughter yeah okay yes okay and let me say you something she's that that's a handful

and she's opinionated and she's my kid she's one of a kind she's one of a kind and so when you said I got this. I said, man, hang on this seat. But it's family. Yeah. It's family. And what I loved about you was, you're a scrapper. Yeah. Okay, this is not some sit back in the corner and I'll kind of take this ride. Okay? You

had your hands full and you're trying to figure stuff out. Yeah. And I'm, listen, and even with my family, my mom and dad and my upbringing, it wasn't all better roses, man. You know, and I didn't have to quite present as

heavy as you had to come in that door of trying to prove your, but you didn't have to prove anymore. Right. Well, I learned that. You didn't have to prove it. That's not the point. The point is, you love my daughter, keep the family together, you love your kids, you're on your way. Let me show up. But I say this all the time. You and Brenda, as my parents have been parents in a really nice way where now I see it, if I look back, I didn't have to prove anything. But it's beautiful. I'll tell you my really defining moment. I mean, I don't know we're going to go this deep, but I'll know this deep. I'll tell you when I, I really fell in love with you. Tell me. Okay. Go deep. I'll go all the way deep. All right. You call me dad.

Yeah. You're all right. Yeah. You said, hey, man, I, you're my dad. You had lost your father. Yeah, that's right. You know, and I got all teary-eyed because I know what that represented to you. You're the only dad I got left. That's what I'm saying. And so, you know, from that standpoint, you know, to have somebody this close to your life, to your real life with the family, you know, it's a wonderful place to be when you have that kind of faith and trust in me as the as this Lionel Richie bigger than life in your head you know but still I'm that kid that walks in front of the mirror every morning going to discoverer Lionel Rich again yeah but that's funny but you know it's really important when someone believes in you trust you to the point where okay am I going

to make myself look stupid yeah that's called family if you start pretending around that then what are you doing? You're lying to yourself. So I just want to commend you on the fact that that was the moment I fell in love with you. Thank you. That was very cool. Well, it was a big part of our relationship and reconciliation was, you know, when he came out on that trip, it was the first time he'd come out and really spent time with my family and we had been building this relationship that we did now. You were nervous, Frank. I was nervous. You were nervous. But as you got to see, and know him a little bit. He was a great guy.

He came over to me. First of all, old school. We left you out completely. Yeah, yeah. He came over as the fan. Yeah. And not only the fan,

but he knew my story better than you did. Yeah. You know, so we got to talking in, I guess at one point, we just kind of ignored you. Yeah. And he was a real one. He's a real.

He's a real person. And, and you could see, he's been through his battles. Yeah. It's okay. But you could see he's trying to process. He's trying to get it together. And I was that one.

anchor in his whole life history that he could relate to the music. Yeah, yeah. And so we had something in common to talk about. Yeah. That was a very moving moment for him and for me. And you also told me, you know, as that relationship developed, you were, you were very supportive of it. It was great because I was a little conflicted at first, but you told me you only get,

you got one dad and however long it takes, you know, you forgive him. Yeah. And accept him. He did the best. He did the best he good. He did. Exactly. That's what you said.

And we ended up with this incredible friendship that I really am glad I got to have because when he passed away, I was really sad. And I got to have what was the closest thing to a father-son relationship that I can imagine. And now I do think that my relationship with Sparrow and with both my kids is better for all of it. But you were a big supporter in that. And it was in a time when I needed it. And whether it was not only in words, but it was also just in your actions. But you also have to understand something.

There's a moment that you don't know how blessed you are. Yeah. Okay. If I told you that one of the surprising moments on American Idol, see, I went out to judge singers. Yeah. I went out to judge, okay, where's the judging going to be? Let me tell you what it was. I wasn't prepared for.

So tell me about your family life. Tell me about your mom and dad. Yeah. We're homeless. My dad's on drugs and my mom's on. drugs. I have four kids I'm responsible for. I wasn't ready for that. People living these real lives. I wasn't ready for that. So now this kid's not singing for to get famous. He's singing for the house, for the family, for the kids. Okay, I wasn't ready for that. But each time

you hear the stories, the kids will go, yeah, my dad abandoned us when we were to, my mom left us when we were, okay, nobody does every night for me. It reminds me of how blue. blessed we are. Okay. You knew your dad. You know your mom. We had a dad. Yeah. We had a mom. Right.

They didn't, most of some of these kids, they don't have moms and dads, man. So I leave there every night thinking, I got my kids. My kids, I can call them. We can hug. These kids can't do that. Yeah. And so I became on the show, Dad.

Yeah. And that's Uncle Luke. You know, and that's Uncle Kerry, you know. It becomes really a responsibility of knowing what your blessing really is. And your dad, I saw it from the beginning. In fact, we had more to talk about than me and you talking because we bonded right away from what? The music and being a fan. So you were nervous about whether we were going to bond.

Yeah, yeah. We left you out right away because you missed 75. You missed all that, man. Yeah, yeah. I was born in 79. Yeah, there you go. So you missed all what we were talking about. Yeah, so it was wonderful to realize the blessing of us and what we have and how you create your family and what you have for a family and what I have for a family.

We're living in a blessing. Yeah, we are. So it's not about the hit record is where are we in terms of love, respect, honor, you know, you learn that inside. That's inside family job there, man. man, and you did the work. When that tear comes on the loss of your father, you know. It's a moment. It's a moment.

It's an interesting one when you lose your dad, because the man that was in front of you, that you're standing on his shoulders. That's the anchor. Is now when he leaves his world, you realize, now you're up. You're it. And you're the last, you're, you know, for your family.

And I also think a lot becomes clear that you're, when you're young, you don't have that wisdom. and you take for granted a lot. And I think the gratitude or the idea of being happy with what you have instead of just looking around at what you don't have all the time. Or how you wish it was, this is the way it is. And I think also maybe it's not supposed to be the other way.

Right. Maybe this was supposed to be this way. It's supposed to be this way. Remember now this is a learning experience, my friend. And so what happens, my dad was at UCLA on his deathbed coming in and out of a coma, okay? and I am there by his side and I'm there with him and I'm talking to him when he comes in and out. And so finally one day I said, and by the way, I'm asking him questions now.

I'm answering, he's, I'm asking question after question and he is firing. He's giving me answer after answer, killing it. Yeah. Killing the answers. And so finally I said to him, man, let me ask you a question, man. Were you always this smart? He said, yeah, you just started listening. Yeah.

Because when you're on his every breath, you've got his undivided attention. When you're a kid walking through the house, you didn't hear half of it. But now that he's on his deathbed, you're listening. You're paying attention. Every breath you know. And he's saying everything. He tried to tell you growing up. In fact, you remembered it.

It's just you didn't pay attention. Yeah. And so I use those moments to say that it's a growing up part of life. You know, people call it a tragedy. No, no, no, no. He has your undivided attention. Your mother has your undivided attention. Right now, your family has your undivided attention.

You know, it's, it happened to me. I had a hit record and then another hit record and another album and another album and another tour. And here comes another tour and I got to be going to go to the award show. I got to do this. Lionel, yes, your dad's ill and they want you to come home. I'm going home. Mm-hmm.

I'm going home. And I'm thinking he's going to be sick for a couple of months, a couple of weeks and then he'll get back. No, no, no. Three years later was the journey. I didn't put it on another record at an album. Why? Because if you put out another record, you've got to go on another tour. Yeah, you got to go out. And you got to follow up on the thing. I didn't want to get on that train again. Why? The most important person in my life is right there. And that's the priority. And so, you know, there are moments in time when life will teach you what's important. Right. Did you and your dad, did you share your feelings a lot?

Yes, yes, but he was so funny. Yeah. But I didn't understand. I get that impression. You think so? Yeah. I grew up with the Tuskegee Airman, and he's the Army side of the airman side.

But anyway, what I couldn't figure out with him was every problem, every massive issue I had in my life, he started laughing. Right. Dead. Did you hear what I said? The girl left me for the football play. Yeah.

And he's in tears laughing. And I'm thinking, what is he says? Eh, another day, man. He says the idea is you growing up. I don't talk about growing up. Tell me about the girl. No, she's not coming back home. You know, but the point is it's a part of life.

Yeah. The whole story of pain and struggle and recovery and pain and struggle and recovery. That's life. He came from, he was so poor. Right. So every time my mother would come with a tragedy. I mean, God, we're dinner. What are we going to do for dinner?

We don't have the dinner. My dad, Debra and my sister, we loved it when my mom said we don't have any dinner. Dad's going to put on the pot. You know what the pot was, don't you? Everything in the refrigerator is going in the pot. That's right. Right? And he had the most exciting meal of everybody.

Yeah. Because we would. And mom couldn't figure out, why are you excited about your father cooking? Because he, it was never bad time. Yeah. It was always the fun part. Yeah. So I'm saying my relationship with him was real because it was, he just, as he said to me years ago, I mean, your mother's going to teach you etiquette.

Yeah. And how to speak well. I'm going to teach you how to survive. Yeah. Period. Yeah. And this is how life is and how it's going to be. And you kiss ass for the privilege to kick ass.

There's a period in your life where you have to. kiss ass you might not like it but it's going to give you passage to the point where when you get to that point you don't have to kiss as anymore now you kick ass that's wisdom that's crazy got it it it's interesting because people don't want to deal with the i always call them the bridge trolls of life you know anyone listening it could be your boss or at the dmv or wherever whatever whatever little maze you're navigating in the day or in your life of trying to build a career or whatever. Right. Along each way, you're going to meet someone in some position of power that can give or take from you.

Right. And you got to deal with them to get past it. A moment. Yeah. A moment. Not your life. Yeah. Just the obstacle.

Now you can figure it out. I can make a confrontation out of this obstacle. I can waste another hour and a half arguing with the obstacle. Or I can just, what is the obstacle one? Obstacle needs, either something from his ego. something from, what is it? What is it? Authority.

He wants to be authority, okay? I'm going to make you the authority. Yes, sir. No, sir. You got it, sir. Thank you, sir. Right? I'm not going to sit there and go,

you don't talk to me like that. Yeah, yeah. All I want is my goddamn license. And I'm just going to get through this. I just got to get through you. Whatever there, your hoop is. Okay. So whatever you need, I'm going to give it to you.

And then it's over. Yeah. But I found out something. Once they realize it's not banging in the door, they go, all, hey, come on, kid. Hey, right this way, Lion. Hey, it's okay. Yeah.

Why? Because it's my ego against your ego. You're the best. Yeah. You don't have to kick my ass in the club. I open up by saying, you're the best. Yeah. Yeah.

They weren't ready for that. Yeah. Because normally what the bar fight is, is my ego is clashing with you. Yeah. So let's fight. Waste some time. I'm wasting time. Yeah.

Yeah. Get beat up. I did it feel the other night at the Oscars. Ooh, good question. You know, the standing ovation. That was a moment. That was a moment. That was a moment.

40 years to the day. I mean, that's 40 years ago. Yeah. Say you, say me, sitting in the audience, you know, and I said to Bruce and to Lisa, you walk up on stage, but it's not from the audience. It's from the back. And there's a standing ovation. Yeah, that was real. This is the academy.

Yeah. And everybody in that audience is whether they are or not in their heads, they are famous. I'm not going on that stage. That is the most intimidating thing in life. Now, when I was there for the first time 40 years ago, that's Jack Nicholson on the front room. That's Steven Spielberg. That's, you know, and you've got the picks and you've got the portiers and you've got, you're looking at Hollywood.

That's the room. Okay, so they let you in this fraternity sorority. Yeah. And to walk out on stage with some of the faces, they're so new. I would love to tell you what they did, but I don't know. But to get the old school, new school, everything is, and they stand up. It was a moment. It was a moment.

I have to tell you. From my seat, and just watching from the outside, it felt like a moment. And it felt like it was the, it was an acknowledgement. Again, like I said, a bunch of generations of people who are recognizing what you mean. Yeah. To not only you winning an Oscar, kicking down doors for artists. Yeah. which it isn't always acknowledged what it's meant what you've done.

The songs are great, but there's something else. There's a trail that's carved out. And so that moment was nice for me to see, obviously, because it's family and it's you, but for anyone to see them acknowledge someone, it was a moment. I was really happy for you. You know what I enjoyed the most, to walk out on that stage, and the whole room started smiling. Yeah. And then they stood up.

Yeah. Okay. Smiling means they like you. Yeah. Standing up is they respect you. Absolutely. You follow me? That's what it felt.

So when you get an unsolicited smile and a wave and then they stand up, it's like, huh, you know. And so it's really appreciated, number one, but it's also a moment where you don't take it for granted. Yeah. And if I could have just, if I didn't have a time slot, I'd have stood there a little. Yeah. Just to take it in. You know, but I mean, it's really, this is the academy, man. This is this, you know, this town and this business, you know.

And so when people genuinely feel that and they demonstrate it, it's the best. After all these years, I mean, it's the best. It was quite a moment. It was a moment. I was touched by it. I was actually, I remember walking offstage and go to Lisa, what just happened? And she said, it happened again. You know what I'm saying?

It's just, when you write a song, you're trying to get a hit record that day, that time. When you start talking about 40 years later, 50 years later, and those songs are still played, you know, it's standard play. You didn't plan for that. You know, we were just trying to get a couple of the girls in the dormitory to notice that the Commodores are living in town. Yeah, me too. You know, that's how we start. You know, that's where it all goes. It's pretty simple.

And then it's not a heavy equation, right? And then as it goes on, you realize not only do they scream, but then the money, and then you can make a living. And then you could be great. And then you could be great. And that's when, and by the way, you can't get a P. There's no PR company that's going to give you, I can guarantee your greatness. No way. That comes as fine wine.

It sits there and it's seasoned and whatever the case may be. And you can't call it. Everyone else decides. It's that, it's that standing ovation. It wasn't, you can't rehearse that. That was, there's a feeling that everyone agrees. They all start doing, you're realizing in a standing ovation moment where you start feeling like, I feel like I should stand, like it happens together.

Right. Everyone agrees. Everyone, that's the interesting thing about it as a physical manifestation of a cultural, a multi-generational agreement on something. Yes. And that's what I saw. And that was just, it was, it was, it was, it was a, Quite a moment.

When you're on stage, I'm in any part of the world. Mm-hmm. And I go out on the stage and I start singing a song. And right in the middle of the song, I go, excuse me, I'm the singer. They sing louder. In other words, you mean you paid a ticket to come see, hear me sing and perform. They're dancing better than I'm dancing. And they're singing louder than I'm singing.

The answer is, so my, you all rehearsed? You can't buy that. Yeah. These people came from all over wherever they came from to come in this building to do the same act. Yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing. And the standing ovation or the, we finish the song and they keep applauding and they keep applauding. And then you're trying to go to the next song and they keep applauding.

Did you all rehearse this? It's a moment when you're in the happening. And that's what that other night was last night, you know, with the Oscars. it was just a happening that happened. It was cool. And everybody agreed on that act. You know what I'm saying? And I think that's probably one of the reasons why we're kind of addicted to the strangeness of it all.

Yeah, yeah. I'm also kind of addicted to the adrenaline of fear. You know, I wonder if it's going to happen. I wonder if we got, you know, because every night when you walk on stage, you don't take for granted it's going to be like last night. Well, it's like jumping out of an airplane every time. You said it. This is why those guys do it. that first two minutes of the show.

Yeah, you're right. It's like you jump out. And then you start to, by the first chorus, you know, that's how it feels to me. It's like, I'm going to jump out of the airplane. And by the way, start for a big wave. If you don't feel that, people ask me all the time, aren't you nervous? Yeah. Before you go out on stage after all these years and I go, listen, nervous makes, only tells you

one thing. You're present. Yep, you're focused. If you're not nervous, you're not present. Yeah, that's right. Okay, that's got to be that look. Now, of course, four or five minutes into the show, okay, you're in, but just for that first opening, you're not, listen, don't take it for granted. You know, you don't know what that reaction is going to be.

Last night was Tulsa to Nice Denver. You don't know until you get there. And they may have a different opinion to you. Yeah. You know what of my favorite memories is? Tell me. My wedding night. Oh.

At your house. Well, that's one of my favorite memories, too. You're like, you're taking her. Take her. Get her out of here. It's done. Deal's done. He's signed the contract.

I saw, I saw this, Joel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I was nervous. Oh, this poor guy is going to die. I'm nervous. But it was beautiful. Tell me.

But it was probably 1.30 a.m. Maybe 1 a.m. I always say it was 2 a.m. But it was probably 1 a.m. Maybe 1.30. The whole place, they're breaking down. Everyone's leaving. There's a good drunk guy over there.

And you... Well, that was you, right? Oh, no, that was a drunk guy. Oh, okay. That wasn't me. Yeah, okay. It was you, me, and Quincy. And rest in peace.

Sitting there, the last three guys standing. Yeah. Watching the whole breakdown, they're cleaning up. They're starting to clean up. Yeah. And I'll never forget it. I don't have a picture of it. I have a picture here of it.

I don't know how we managed to not take that part of it. Because everyone had left. The photographer was like, I'm out of here. To sit there in between you and Quincy in this overwhelming moment of my life where I'm like, what am I doing? At this age, you're just, everything's overwhelming. We already had two kids. Right.

And is that true? That's true. We had two kids before he got married. You were brave, man. I'll never forget it because it was just the three of us sitting there watching the thing get broke down and it almost just kind of. relishing in a good night, good party. You jumped up and sang, you are.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. That was my favorite time. Oh, yeah. Remember I told you. You jumped up on stage with the band. And I announced before I did it. Now, you can't afford me.

Yeah. So I'm doing this for free. That's right. I had to let you know it because as well as. Because I had to mess up the whole budget. Wasn't a cheap wedding either. It wasn't a cheap wedding. You paid for a lot that night.

I just want to let you know. And I thank you. A lot of money. Let me tell you something. I did. The father or the bride. Yeah. Oh my God.

That was no, that was an extravagant night. No, it was, it was beautiful. And I'll never forget in my little memory book of life. There weren't a lot of words. It was just like, yeah, it was like the three of us sitting there, the last people at the party. Yeah. Just had a moment. And I'll never forget it.

And it defines our friendship and our relationship because sometimes we talk a lot. Sometimes we don't talk at all. Sometimes we just sit and look at the leftover mess of the party. You've been there in a lot of places in my life where we've sat back and looked at the room. And sometimes the room is fucking crazy. And sometimes it's just two of us in the Bahamas, you know, the last two guys up.

But that night, I'll never forget it. It definitely stands out as one of those moments in my life where I was like, this is special. You were baptized properly. Yeah. Because for whatever happened, the universe gave you not only you as a godfather, us, but also my godfather came to baptize you. I'm the priest. He's the bishop. Yeah. Follow me? Yes, absolutely. So you had my godfather to sit there and give you the blessings of what you were getting yourself into. We saw a young pup between us kind of looking like this going, what's the heck? You know. You would be okay, right? Yeah, I'm going to be good, right?

I'm with you guys, right? I'm with you. You got me, right? You got me? You got me? You got me? It's kind of how it feels. You know, but I know you were looking back at, I came from Maryland.

Yeah. What am I doing sitting here between these two guys, number one? And why are they sitting with me? And you were as far as I was going, you and Nicole were two kids at, you know, at the magic castle. Yeah. You know, you had no idea what the future was going to be. You've taken on this thing. in Neverland.

And, you know, I think Quincy kind of gave you all the wisdom because he told you one thing about Quincy, you'd like for him to be a little delicate. But he was on you and giving you the wisdom right after the other. And I was taking a lot of it in too because, you know, he wasn't there for my wedding. But the point was you got a chance to hear it from the real deal.

Yeah. There's no one who has been through more stuff. He definitely said it now. Thank you. So he said it to you, and you took it all in, and I must give you credit. There are a lot of people that get counseled on your responsibility and what you have to do. Joel, you did it very well. Thank you. A lot of people don't listen, but you're a great student.

Try my best. I will say this. There have been times like at Benj's wedding, where I actually said to you, I'm going to get up and give a speech, but I'm nervous. I have no idea what I'm telling you right now I'm going to fall down. Yeah. When you see me start to stumble, will you get up? And you said, just make sure there's a piano there. Exactly.

And I said, got you. You got up. We actually did like a comedy routine together. So, Benji, Cameron. Cameron. Yeah. Benji. Joel.

Maryland. Oh, man. From the house you showed me. Oh, yeah. Right? Middle of the woods. Benji. So the comedy routine was already.

is set up. Oh, there's too much to laugh about. My opening line was, Fingy, what did you say to Cameron to get Cameron? Tell me. Tell me, because that's a love song. I haven't written yet. No, that was a, from that point on, it was off to the races. That's a lifetime achievement. That's a lifetime achievement. That's right. You come from Maryland to get Cameron. Are you out of your mind, right? So it was a wonderful evening. But that dog and pony show between us. We could take it on the road. We could take that one on the road.

We could. It was wonderful. I think what made all of this happen was we got closer as a family. Yeah. Because if you can laugh at the good times, the bad time, there can be tragedies. Get ready for it. You know, it's going to happen. But the point is, if you can just take these good times and bonding times and moments of, you know, how to laugh together, how to suffer to

together, you know, and that, down to your career. We all think we're going to be in this business, and it's always going to be number one forever. Not necessarily. Yeah. And most times it's not. Yeah. But you've got to learn how to fade well. I always tell people every day, there's a point where you're the cutest person on the screen.

That's right. You're cute. Then you turn into handsome, and then you turn it into distinguish. And then you, man, you look great for your age. Yeah. And that tells you the story. So, you know, you've got to navigate each one of these avenues until, but you gracefully gracefully enhanced or step into the next role.

And so I look forward to watching your career, son. Just go and take care of it right there. Pop, pop. Pop, pop. Thank you. I love you, man. Love you, too. Thank you for watching Artist Friendly.

If you like this episode, please make sure you hit the like button. You follow the channel and please share it with your friends. We appreciate the support. That is why this show exists because you listen to it. Thank you guys. We'll see you next time.