Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Maisie Peters

Episode Date: May 27, 2026

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Maisie Peters. The British singer-songwriter’s last album, 2023’s The Good Witch, was a “twisted” take on a breakup album, exploring the “fun and intrigue in being so hurt because it means you cared so much.” Her latest record, Florescence, takes a softer, brighter turn that’s grounded in hope as Peters embraces adulthood. Sitting down with Madden, Peters discusses her third full-length, being a nonidentical twin, and what it was like working with Marcus Mumford and Julia Michaels, who both appear on the LP. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Janice Leary, Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin Director/Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman ------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Good Charlotte. Good Charlotte is a band I started when I was 16 with my brother, and it is the reason I'm sitting here today. Thank you, Good Charlotte. We're going on tour. June 20th, San Diego County Fair, Delmar, California. And July 25th through August 30th, Good Charlotte and Avenged Sevenfold touring in the U.S. Starting July 25th, Thunder Ridge Nature Arena in Ridgedale, Missouri, an ending at BMO Stadium in Los Angeles, California on August 30th. If you are in the UK or Europe, we're coming to you this

November. November 8th, we are in Stockholm, Sweden. November 11th, we're in Munich, Germany. November 13th, we're in Brussels, Belgium. November 14th, Dusseldorf, Germany. In November 16th, we're in Amsterdam. November 17th, Paris, France. November 19th, London, UK. November 20th, Manchester, UK. Tickets are on sale now. We will see you at the show. With painters, they just get to paint. With songwriters, we tell stories and people want to know where that story come from. It's funny, I was writing yesterday and I was in the studio and somebody asked me that

was writing with, what does your boyfriend think about the songs that you make about, we were writing a song about an ex, I guess. What does he think about this? And I was like, well, obviously he supports me and wants me to buy my house on Tuscany. so it's just keen for however that happens. But also, I'm sort of making the point that I think he knows, he's watched me create enough to know that, and I kind of likened it too, when I'm writing a song,

I'm just writing a tiny book. I like the record. Thank you so much. I have to say, I'm a fan of your band. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. When I was maybe starting out, you know, when you become a conscious person, when you're like maybe 12 or 13, and you actually start

seeking things out. Yeah, somewhere in like 12 to 14, depending on, or 12 to 13, 14, 15, is when like the light comes on and you go like, oh, I can choose. And you can be an individual person. And you realize the music that you listen to makes you an individual person. Yeah. So I became an individual person with like Green Day, All Time Low, Good Charlotte, My Chemical Romance. I actually sent my dad out to get me my first CD that I sent him to get me. And I said, I want a My Chemical Romance CD. And he came back with a My Dying Bride CD. And I wasn't to know.

And I didn't tell him. So that was just sort of me for a bit. Me with my My Dying Bride CD. Just like, cool. Also like going between My Dying Bride and then switching to break away Kelly Clarkson. And then going back to my dying bride when someone cool was coming around. But yeah, I, Good Charlotte was really in that world of things I was listening to to become a conscious human being.

So that's really nice. Thank you so much. That's very nice. So you were a little bit of an emo kid. Yeah, some could say I had a strong fringe. Some could say I had a strong fringe coming from the side of my head. And I had a passion. So did I.

You know, though I think I had a passion for lyrics really early on. And actually yourself and all of those bands, I mean, especially like for that boy, my chemical romance, the lyricism of those bands and that music is so. specific and excellent. Yeah. And I think to be honest, that was what I was mostly drawn to, probably, when I look at it now. But like, welcome to the Black Parade. That was really on my iPod shuffle in a big way.

Such a good. Such a good song. Such a good album. Such a good song. It was actually YouTube to MP3 converter. That was actually how, sorry, Gerard Way. I don't think he needs my money. At the time, that's what you did.

That's what I was, yeah, exactly. It was the YouTube to MP3 converter. And so you'd have like the 10 minute version of Welcome to the Black Parade. Yeah. That era of music, there was so much drama in the stories and in the, there was a lot of freedom in that you could be so dramatic and so over the top with the lyrics. And they were, especially My Chemical Romance, Fall Out Boy, there's a few others that I would say. I was just listening to an album just yesterday.

I don't know how it came back to my consciousness, but I was like, I haven't listened. to this band in a decade maybe. And this one album, the band is called The Faint. And the album's called Wet from Birth. And I would highly suggest you go listen to that album. That could be good for me. I feel like I could get into Wet From Birth. It was such a good album.

And the lyrics are so dramatic. You forget that like the drama in the lyrics and the freedom to be, you know, so specifically. emotional and over the top is it's a really nice feeling to be able to listen to music like that. I also think another thing that those bands and that music does so well is that often people are, the songs are written so outside of somebody's perspective. It's so fun the way that it's so narrative base.

It's all these sort of very dramatic, often like, I assume, fictionalized sort of other worlds that was just so easy and normalized for everyone just be stepping into that, obviously that big panic at the disco song about being, what is it? It's like running away from the altar or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know the one I'm talking to? The goddamn daughter. Yeah, like.

I write sins, not tragedies. Yeah, so dramatic. And it's so outside of normal life. And everyone was just fine with that. We could all just, everyone just allowed themselves to be transported to other places and sing these songs, which was so outside of obviously the experiences that these people were actually having, I assume. And I feel like nowadays, that would be way more outlandish to, you know, go into a writing day with someone and be like,

should we write a song about having a whore at your wedding? I mean, maybe I'll try that today. To be fair, we'll see what they say. Well, I think you're right. I think it's the modern way, the reality that we're like, that we have to share. So we have to share. Like, that's kind of the modern way. It's like, no, we have to show people our real.

life. If we don't, we're not, we're not participating. We're not doing it right. We're not. Totally. And then it's in our nature to want to present well, right? It's normal. Like I'm not going to show you my panic attack. I'm going to show you what like I'm doing right so that hopefully you like me. And then hopefully like I can just either one stay in line with like nothing to see over here or even better, everybody's coming. They like what I'm doing instead of just like not you, you not knowing me personally and then me putting my art out and that's how you know me and I can say whatever comes out of my head and I don't have to explain it because, you know, and also pre-social media like right where you're talking about, the era of the emo and that

all that kind of stuff. The era we got to be in. And you can say, there's good and bad to always like and there's truth and not to everything like somewhere in the middle there's there's always going to be was it better then or is it better now probably both but I think that was the last era before it all changed and then you're kind of living and dying by the rules of you know not not completely but subconsciously conscious of it always I think yeah and I think pre-social media, yeah, I'm agreeing with you essentially, but music was absorbed in a way that was kind of separate to the person. And it wasn't really as important. I mean, there were like rock stars and pop stars, but nowadays, yeah, you release a song and it's so apparent and obvious you are taken straight to the person.

So is the song true and honest, then it's true and honest about the person saying it. They're very linked in a way. Maybe it wasn't as linked before. Music could kind of exist outside of the individual person. And now it's probably why it was easier to be speaking in fiction and fact. And like weaving them together in different way than you would do nowadays. Where if I sang something, I think, to be honest, especially as a woman, that you sing something and everybody absolutely takes it at a face value that it is about yourself,

which happens to me all the time. And often it is just the way that I write right now. But even if it wasn't, I think it's just the assumed that you're an individual person and your music reflects your individual personhood. Yeah. And I think we're just kind of examining it and maybe unpacking it a little bit. I don't pass judgment on is now better, was then better. There's just different. There's nostalgia, which is nice.

But if we go back, there's problems as well. There's things that weren't good. There's things that were better. And you could come to now and there's things that are better and there's things that aren't good. So you could find good and bad with any time. But it's like, I think examining it is talking about it and just analyzing it is always interesting because I do think we can break out of things that we're not until we're aware we were put in that box.

We don't know we're in that box. And by talking about it and we go, oh, well, I don't have to do it that way always. And then also for people listening to hear. you talk about, hey, some of these songs might not actually be about me or some of them might just be an idea about me. Some of them might be something that I was thinking about and some of them might actually be what I'm living and breathing right now, which is like bare with painters, they just get to paint. With songwriters, we tell stories and people want to know like where that story come from. It's funny. I was in, I was writing yesterday and I was in the studio and

somebody asked me that was writing with, what does your boyfriend think about the songs that you make, about we were writing a song about an ex, I guess. What does he think about this? And I was like, well, obviously he supports me and wants me to buy my house on Tuscany, so it's just keen for however that happens. But also, I was sort of making the point that I think he knows,

he's watched me create enough to know that, and I kind of likened it to when I'm writing a song, I'm just writing a tiny book. And yes, I'm drawing upon my own experiences and my past, but in a way where I've kind of narratorized the whole thing, and I'm able to sort of look backwards and twist it and turn it in a way that I feel like I want to that day, and pluck moments out and then put them down again and look at it a different day and take a different side of that moment. You know, I think it's, at least that's the way I'm at right music is

very much. And that way I'm using my own lived experiences a lot of the time, but I'm not telling it a hundred percent truth necessarily. I'm just telling a truth. or my version of that truth, or I'm looking at what it could have been from some other's perspective, but it's just like writing little books to me. And so, yeah, you're never writing, nobody's writing lots of books from the same exact perspective. No author is doing that in the world. And yeah, I thought that was interesting. Do you like books? I do, yeah. Do you read a lot? Do you like books? Music, writing, painting. I just love all of it. My brother paints, big time painting.

The good painter, too. I feel like that would take a lot of, what's the word for, I feel like I would feel so much imposter syndrome, even though I know it's just creating and it's, you can, anybody can paint, you know? It's, anybody can pick up a paintbrush and make something that needs to be no standard for what you make, but I would be scared to paint. Really? Yeah, not in the deep way.

And yeah, you write songs. I know. It's like I'm, that's an art form that, like, is not for me. So I think I should, now I'm saying that out loud. I'm like, I think I should probably get a watercolor set. Just go crazy. What does your brother paint with? He paints with oil, but he does everything.

He draws and he's got like really cool artwork and has gotten some really cool experiences painting with really cool people. And he was in London and he got to work out of Damien Hearst studio. And he's like, and yet he's never sold a painting. He's literally just a painter. He paints. He paints for. himself and he's got all these paintings and he may every once in a while he'll like give one away

to someone or something but it's really interesting like he's not there's no commercial aspect of his painting which i think is is interesting because we're like such entrepreneurial like businessy kind of guys when it comes to stuff but with painting he just paints it's really cool I really like it but I think you should paint I should paint because you know how many people would say like I can't write a song I'm terrible And you'd be like, that's a sprite one. Fucking cares. Yeah.

Oh, 100%. No, I'm, now I've learned that. Well, I didn't really know this about myself until I said it right now. But now I'm going to look into that. I think also thinking about it now, when we were at school, my sister was like the artist. She was the one that was doing art. And so potentially maybe that's some sort of deep repressed. Yeah, like some message you got.

Childhood feeling that I have that I can now. But now she is a corporate queen. And she uses things like Slack. so I can probably lean into the art more. Yeah. Like she's got her thing now. So she started an art and ended up in like more of a structure. Yes, she works.

She works in a corporate job doing events. Oh, wow. But she's also a really good cook. So she actually still is very creative in some ways. She's got creative. She's very creative in the kitchen. That's what I call it when she ruins my kitchen. We live together.

Oh, you live together? Mm-hmm. With our boyfriends as well. With your boyfriends, all four of you. Mm-hmm. Oh, that's cool. It is cool. Yes.

I do consider it. What do we call it? What's the appropriate way to say this? It's definitely a matriarchy. I am at the top and then my sister is below me. And then I guess we're going to sort of fight it out of the bottom for the scraps that come. But she's great. Yeah, she's great.

But we live together and she cooks. And when she's being, when she's really cooked in a very explosive way, I say that was very creative, Ellen. Maybe we could be a little bit less creative next time. Yeah, because she makes a mess. But it's good. But it's so good. Yeah, this is the thing. This is the double-edged sword.

It is delicious. But she's messy. But she's messy. Yeah. And without her, I eat like five mini eggs and a lentil. So I need to keep her around for that purpose. But yeah,

one day my surfaces will be clean all the time. And that's something I think about if I'm going to be honest. 25 is thinking about your surfaces a little bit more than you did, 24. Are you 25? Yes. It's a great age. Thank you.

It's been well so far. Yeah. It is a really good age. You must be 25 too. Me? Yes. I am 22 years older than you. I'm going to go for 22 and I was like, no, I know that's not true. I'm 47. That would be impossible. Are you a twin or have I made that up? I am a twin. You know I'm a twin too. Is that your sister? Are you guys identical? No. Okay. Are you guys identical? We are. You are. And the older we get, the more we look alike. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, people must ask you lots of like annoying twin questions a lot. Do people ask you if you You guys are telepathic.

Yeah. Yeah. And we are. You are. You say that you are. We are. Now, expand on that. Not that I don't believe you.

I don't. But expand upon that. It's not like the telepathic in the sense of what maybe you see on TV that's kind of dramatized. Like horse, horse. Right. But we've been together our whole life. We're as close, I think, as you people could be. Yeah.

We talk all day. every day, we text all day. Have you always been like that? Always been like that. Even work because you obviously have been the band together, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's never been a period of your life where you've not been close. You've not spoken every day. No. Wow. That's impressive. I'd say we're like two parts of a whole. And there's strengths he has that I don't and strengths I have that he doesn't. We are in sync together in a way that is only two people who have lived their whole life together could be. And we can kind of communicate without talking.

We can less give each other a look. Do you use that for good or evil? I would say that we use it naturally, whether it's for our benefit or not. I'd say it's just kind of like breathing. That's nice. Yeah. Do you write together? We do.

That must be useful when making music together. Sometimes and sometimes we'll start something I'll be getting in his way or he'll be getting in my way and we know how to go, hey, hey, hey, get out of the way. I'm on something. Let me finish it. And then I'll finish the idea and then he'll go in and it'll actually make it better. So learning how to communicate and without emotion so that we're not. I think with art, it can be emotional and you can be what's the word? I could be self-conscious. I can be insecure. And so, if I'm in a safe space when I'm making things with people, I can try things, you know, without going like, is this, it's okay? And with him, it's easy to do that. It's funny because sometimes I think it's easier to try things and be like vulnerable and nervous and put yourself out there when it's people that you're not that close to because they have no knowledge of what it would mean for you

to say something. Does that make sense? Which is the opposite, very opposite. working with your twin brother. So, and I mean, there's, I also disagree with that sentence at the same time. Like, I've done both, but I can't imagine making music with a family member. Really? Yeah, definitely not. It's my favorite thing. Yeah, I feel like if it's, if it's good, it's amazing.

Yeah. Learning how to communicate with family is something that takes practice. There's a big bag of mixed things. I think with all family. I think people don't give that enough credit. I think we're supposed to, like everyone, And obviously I think we try to present our families to, you know, outwardly to people as like, oh, we're all, everything's great.

And like the truth of the matter is, is there's stuff with family. And you're supposed to work it out. And that's like it takes practice. It takes, I always talk to especially artists, because we work with a lot of artists and artists that are siblings, I find have a lot of unresolved stuff. And they need to work on. Like siblings and bands kind of thing. Yeah.

Yeah, like great examples. It's easy to look across music and across time and find examples of that. Yeah, cool. Like the most glaring example from the UK would be Oasis. The brothers, right? I love them so much. I mean, I grew up on them and I'm like their biggest fan. And they have unresolved things.

And it feels to me that they've never given that a credit, even though that probably does lend itself to some amazing art. At the same time, I think the person. development and personal growth and the joy you can get out of life when you do resolve family stuff is really great. Therapeutically, it's really great. And I feel like sometimes I see them and I go, I wish they could work out their stuff so they could enjoy the fruits of their life and their work together on another level. Because in our 20s, we did fight a lot. We didn't know how to communicate.

And it would come to, it actually got physical a few times. Like we got into fist fights and things back when we were, probably your age. Who won? He did. He's very, he's got that power. But through work, we learned how to talk and we learn how to say how we feel and we learn how to see each other and hear each other. And it took us to another level work-wise, but also just personally, I think we became a stronger

team. Yeah, I mean, you guys work so closely together. I feel like that was, it's great that you did that, but that also would have had to happen, I guess, for you to keep working the way that you do. Yeah, or we would have just destroyed it. Yeah. So that's really cool. But I think that's a thing. Like I think with family, we have to identify and go, hey, we have some stuff. Let's try and go in the direction where we work on it and then let that happen over time, whether it takes a decade or it takes five years, it takes time. It will actually happen if you just set your, if you just identify it and go like, I don't know how, but we got some stuff. Let's just try and like make room for this to develop. And then it starts to kind of. You know what I mean? This is useful because as an English person,

obviously very repressed nation. And so it's interesting to hear about unrepressed things you can do. Like, yes. Yeah, these are some things that did not involve repression. So I will be, I am absorbing this and thinking about how I can apply it to my own repress life. It is possible for the English. It is possible for us. Guys, where's the camera? It is possible.

To unrepress yourselves. Let's unrepress ourselves here, artist friendly. Yes. That's sort of a different episode, I suppose. It is a different episode. They all weave together. But you're at a great age because you can really, live this life you're living it's it's like it's really truly like your music life is something that you

can be all in on and really live it and this is you're in the thick of building what will be your legacy is right now which is a really cool time what a thought what a thought my legacy hmm you will have one let's hope so yeah well you will you will You're a great artist. Thank you. You are. The new record I was very struck by. Oh, thank you so much.

And I was thinking about it, which is interesting for you to say your boyfriend. Because I was like, are we in love or are we out of love? I can't tell because the songs go in and out of love. So it's really interesting. To keep one of the toes, him included. Yeah, no, I am. I am in.

I am in right now. but I feel like I would find it very difficult to write a wholly happy album. I think most, again, I've been talking about this a lot with artist friends recently about how happy music is so kind of challenging to write. And also, I'm sure you agree when you put out an album and then you promote it, say, and then you tour it and that whole period, that whole thing is going to take you two years. I feel like from the little things I've learned over the small time I've been doing it,

it's nice to give yourself a real breadth. of emotion and feeling across an album so that no matter sort of at what point you are in your life in those two years, there's like something different to cling to. Or if you resonate with one song at one point, you give yourself the opportunity almost to resonate with something else later, sort of hedging your bets, I suppose. But yeah, so I am in love, but I guess, yeah, maybe am too English to just be like wholly happy for a whole 45 minutes. Yeah, by the way, I love the record for that reason. I love the ride you're on with it.

It feels like some of the songs, it felt to me like there's songs and almost like how you got there. The songs are telling this whole album, there's some stories of like, how did you get here? And it might be from some heartbreak and some loss and some pain.

But then there's moments where I felt really, when I was listening to the album, I felt like I was in love. Oh. Well, you are in love. I am. You are, yeah. Yeah.

But it reminded me in a really nice way. Because sometimes I think we forget to, you know, I think we take it for granted. When we love someone and we're loved by them, I think we take it for granted sometimes. And I think there's moments on your record that really, like, hit me. That's so nice. Made me want to be in love. How long have you been with your wife? It'll be 20 years.

Oh. In December. That is a long time. How did you guys meet? we met through a friend. Wow, that's nice. Yeah, we were kind of set up. Yeah, you must have been your early 20s when you guys met.

Yeah, I was like 20, yeah, 27. And you guys have been together the whole rest of that time, yeah? Yeah. Wow, that's so cool. It's so cool that you've lived so much of your life with one person. More with her. And then also with your brother, you've really had a partner in life your whole life. I know about partnership for sure.

Like lucky. I do think that when you have a twin, it predisposes you. to being a partner. A partner, yeah. More easily. Yeah. Because you share everything, you know? Yeah.

And I think that I was always a, I was always a relationship person. So I think that's how I think of life. Mm-hmm. Do you think you're a comparative person? What's comparative? I'm just thinking about being a twin and how it does definitely predispose you to being, wanting partnership, but also growing up with somebody else alongside you for your whole life. I guess can breed comparison

because there is this person that is sort of your double living exactly the same time hitting exactly the same like milestone as you and it's easy, it's also just an easy thing for people to do is to compare you

because you are, you know what I mean, the A and B of the same thing. And so, and I think like my sister definitely struggled with that when we were younger and now she's much more of just, you know,

got her own life and her own world and she doesn't as much anymore. And to be fair, so have I definitely, when we were younger and you're living at the exact same age, but you're so different in the way you are living. So I was going to ask if you feel like you compare yourself to him or to others, if you feel like that relationship has made you more comparative, more easily able to compare. I totally understand what you're saying. I would say that I'm more of like a share.

We share everything. And that is, I think with everything comes good and bad, with all. strength comes weakness. So there's another side to every coin, you know. And I think that that's a good, I've never had to think about that. I don't think we compare ourselves. I think we share everything, which can be a problem because I think we just kind of don't see each other separate. So if I have something, it's his.

You are kind of one. Right. There is no, yeah, you are like two halves of one. or sort of. I guess you've also been in the band together. So what are you going to compare? You are so the same. All together.

Yeah. That is interesting. Do you guys live near each other? We do. We did live on the same street for many years. And then they moved to Santa Barbara. And then we were pretty far apart for like a couple, for like two years-ish. And then it was too far for us.

So we moved halfway. So we're now an hour or less from them and an hour from here because we were all in L.A. So then we moved up north about 45 minutes to an hour. And then another 45 minutes to an hour is where they are. So we're now like close. But we traditionally have always lived on the same street like three times in our life. We've lived in the same street. So we're very close.

I like that. I would like to live on the same street as my sister. I mean, right now she's the room next door. Yeah. which, you know, might reach its natural conclusion at some point. But then, yeah, she jokes that she wants to like live in the flat below our flat. But I will have to provide that for her, which at this point in my career now might be a challenge to buy the whole block of flats. Yeah, well, you will.

But, you know, you never know me and my legacy could come through. Anything you think. Crazy things have happened. I don't even think it's crazy. Okay. That's good to know. I just think you... I'll take that on board.

I think we become what we think about. Oh, okay. And so whatever we think about long enough, we start moving in that direction. And then one day we kind of go, yeah, I kind of always thought about this. Now look at it, you know.

What did you think about that you feel you've become? Happy. That's nice. Yeah. I wasn't happy for a long time. And then I'm thinking, one day I'm going to be happy.

Healthy. Mm-hmm. Which I always wanted to be, which I didn't know how. I was like, how do you live a life where you're just healthy? And sort of just incrementally, subconsciously do it.

Start heading there. Married was a thing I thought about. I was like, I think I wanted to be married and I always wanted to be married and like have kids and then have like a family. So like, didn't that happen? Can I ask you something that you don't have to tell me? What was your first dance song at your wedding? First, oh, the first dance at our wedding was, it's a wonderful world. I think to myself.

for that song. It's a great choice. I just really like knowing that from musicians who get married. I feel like it's like a big, what do people call it? Needle Drop. It's like a big real-time needle drop of your own life. So I feel the choice is just cool to hear about. Yeah. I don't know why we chose that song. We just really liked it. We always listened to certain songs together. And that's always been one that we both really enjoy. No, I think that's a great choice. Yeah. Funny enough, even though it's such a massive song, I've never heard that from anybody else. Yeah. Weird. Mm-hmm.

It's a good question. What would yours be? My instinct is just always to give you a joke and I'm like really. You could joke. No, I need, I actually, it's good for me to do something sincere. No, it's a good challenge for myself. Be sincere. Let's be sincere.

Let's do it. Like, literally it's coming out my mouth. I'm going like, LifeSiles, the Richard Famous, I'm going, be serious. Panic at the disco. Panic at the disco. I write sins, not tragedies. The entire 10 minutes of I'm not okay. No, okay, let's just think about something serious.

What would my first dance song be? Well, actually, I do have an answer for this. That is serious, huge for me. I love the Billy Joel song. She's always a woman. Oh, yeah. I think it's just the best love song of all time. But when sort of listening on closer inspection,

like I know that it's a love song. Like, I feel it and hear it as a love song because I feel like it's a song. I hear that song and I think, like Billy Joel knows this person, the most anyone has known anyone. I feel like I hear the song and I feel like it's such a true understanding

of somebody else, which to me is a perfect love song. But A, I don't know if it super is a love song. B, I actually did some research and I found out that the person that he wrote it about, they got quite an ugly divorce and she hates the song. The irony of him. And it rings about up there, you know?

I think about that. And I think maybe that's sort of an ominous vibe to bring to the function. if anyone else knows that story. So I don't know. That's what I, that's sort of what I always think about. But we'll see what happens by that time. It's some way away.

So there's time for someone else. Well, here's the wonderful thing about art. Your interpretation of the song redeems it. You know, and regardless of the mistakes or whatever. And that's what I think the cool thing about art is, is we all own it in a different way. So you see a painting and you put it on your wall. well and I see it differently. And that's the amazing thing about writing songs. It seems like you're a

real fan of songwriting. I am, yes. I can tell in your work. Thank you. You're a very good songwriter. Oh, thank you very much. The lost art form. Do you think? Yes. Oh, maybe. How do you write songs? How do I write songs? I sort of intend to. But do you have, do you sit with a guitar or a piano or you just go, let's... Probably, yeah. I probably sit with an instrument. It depends if I'm on my own, if I'm with other people.

I do both. If I'm by myself, then I'll sit with probably a guitar and I'll probably know what I want to make. Like, I'll know the song that I want to make by myself. It's quite rare that I would just sit and play and see what happens, sort of know the story that I want to tell.

But if I'm with other people, I might come in with something I really want to say, or often I won't really know what I want to say. And I'll just come in and sit down and play and something will take shape. But I do feel like I'm definitely somebody who, I don't know if maybe this is everybody, but I make a song because I decide I'm going to

and then I make one. And you finish it? And I finish it, yeah. All of my songs, I mean, on this album, I make songs in a day and then the song is done. And I'm never, I'm like really rarely going to go back and change the actual song. I'll change the production and the world around it,

but I'll so rarely rewrite some. something because I've write a lot of songs so I'll just write a different one, I think, if I have something else I want to say or something. But I don't know.

The first version of the song is sort of always the one that I stick with. But I don't know, I worked with Marcus Mumford from Mumford and Sons in the last couple years. Yeah, legend.

And it was so interesting working with him. We did a week together here in L.A. And I think we did two songs and I was really nervous at the end of the week. I was like,

oh, I don't think we did enough. Like, it was a very slow week. That was sort of unproductive by my standards. Two songs? Yeah. That's very good week. Well, I sort of said that to him the next week and he was like, that's insane.

He was like, Mumford and Sons and himself, we've spent months on one song. We'll spend two weeks easily on two songs, just those two songs for those two weeks. And it was a useful thing to hear, I think. Are you a fan of his? Yeah, of course. What a nice guy. I like him a lot. Yeah, such a nice guy.

So charming and easy to get along with. but also, to be honest, a fan as well, such a fan of music. So loves music, such an instrumentalist, plays everything, knows. Everyone who's making anything interesting, Marcus knows and plays with. And he actually, he came to one of my shows in New York last year. And he was like, I just love to be in band. It's like, I just want to play in your band. And I said, Marcus, I think you're a bit busy for that.

I need to be going to some emphasis on shows. I need you to be playing those. But he just loves music. And I love that about people, especially when you meet people like that, you know, so successful and been in it for such a long time. And they just still love making things. And you write with them and it's like they've never made a song before. That's how they feel. Yeah, that's why he's still good.

Yeah. Of course. I think the new album, I think the new one of if not that best. I think it's so good. Yeah. It's the staying in the joy and the excitement of making something and the novelty of making something every time. That is why I think you could stay inspired. and keep making, you can always be inspired and make records as long as it's real.

I think you have to love music and not, I think to stay inspired and keep making music. You have to keep loving music, like other people's music. I found that. I found that I kind of go in and out of listening to music, like in its proper way. Like I'll listen to music. But I mean, like, seeking it and like really loving it. Been hearing a song and going, God, I wish I would have said that. Yeah.

I wish I could have said it like that. Exactly, like feeling so strongly about something, but I feel like the music that I make is always better when I'm in a season where I feel like that about something else. Excited. Yeah. That's how I felt when I heard your new record. Thank you. Yeah, I was especially struck by Audrey Hepburn. Mm-hmm.

Thank you. That song is so good. Thank you. Do you like that song? I do. Yeah, I like all of them. I like all my own music. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I like all the old ones as well. Like, yeah. I don't know. I feel, even if it's not something I would make anymore old, I mean, obviously, Audrey Hepburn is I made that not that long. ago. But even the older stuff I wouldn't make anymore. I still feel very fond of it. Yeah. And I'm really not somebody that's like, you know, rejects what they made or feels nothing towards it. Like, it's very much not me. I felt really lucky when I listened to your record. Oh, that's lucky to hear it. To hear it. Like, thank you. I got a link and I got to listen to it. I love to listen to music, but I'm just

honest with myself when something hits me or when I'll listen again. Or if it's not, I'll you know if if I skip I skip if I go okay and with your album I listened to every song it was a ride I was on a ride it was like a really nice it was nice to hear something where I could where I was I was listening through every song it's hard to explain I felt one part I was reading someone's journal or like one part a fly on the wall watching someone go through a relationship one part listening to really good songwriting which is I appreciate it's a it's a it's a it's a like I said, I said it's a lost art form because I really do think that we live in a time where we can construct things that sound good.

Yeah, yeah. It works. Like, it really does. Like, you can make a pop song and go sync it up with something and it's background music that become, you know, so I think you have really good guitar work on your album. Thank you. I mean, that's probably not me. But still, some of it.

Yeah, but Ian Fitchuk who did it. Yeah, so thank you. Yeah, I've produced it with a guy called Ian Fitchuk. who's in Nashville and such a tasteful producer. And I was actually saying that about the album the other day. I listened back and I'm really proud of how not necessarily sparse, but it feels sort of tasteful and not overdone, which I'm pleased with.

And especially in pop music, it's kind of what you're saying. Something can sound so good. It can kind of get like a pop music sweet tooth and just keep going with something, you know, keep sweetening it. and I feel like the album did a good job of sort of sticking to, it feels like kind of timeless in that perspective. But I think I was just thinking when you were talking,

I'm just such a song, I'm such a songwriting person. Like I will, when music comes out that I'm really excited about, artists who I love release albums, probably before I can, I'm so impatient to, to know it, that I will read the lyrics first. Because listening will take me too long to get to every song and read what they're saying. that I would like read the whole thing first. And then I will listen to it.

And choose which song you want to listen to first? No, I'll still listen front to back. But I just am so impatient to know what the world is and like know what they said and what they meant and how, and the sort of the story of it that I'll do that first. And then I will just listen from the top. Yeah, that's interesting. I can kind of hear that in your music though.

You're a lyric person for sure. In a big way. Big time. Yeah. My boyfriend like isn't really a lyric person. And he said, yeah, I don't really listen to those. And I'm like, I'll just go kill myself then. I don't think I'm particularly a great lyricist, but I would disagree.

I would say that I'm a connoisseur of lyrics. I like that. I hear them so strongly. I can't unhear them. And so when I listen to songs, all I hear is lyrics. Another thing that no one maybe thinks about, but I just think about it so much is, how the melody and the lyric together relate and how people use melody and lyrics together in relationship with one another and how I hear whether they intended to think about it or not

some people are very naturally good at it and then some people have actual an intellectual more intellectual relationship with their poetry than others that's probably one of the things I enjoyed about your album was the lyrical journey. Yeah, thank you. And the choices you made in little spots. Yeah, I'm very pedantic. Like, I don't like, which is overboard, but I will notice, and I will, not just like a song, but I will, it will get a little mark. If somebody has written a lyric with but twice in the same sentence, I will, I will mark it down. I'm the same. I will, and someone suggests it to me in a room and unfortunately, I like them a little bit less. Like, you can't have

but you can't have but twice in the same sentence. And also there's an and an event and a cause. So anyway, I'm just, I'm like super big on stuff like that. But I do, I think what you said is so true about melody and lyric, the way they work together being something that I actually feel like I've, I tried a little bit more with this album,

because I definitely, my natural instinct is just lyric and like, melody shmody, like whatever. But I, but I don't believe that. I just think that's my natural instinct. So I, with this album, definitely think I tried a little bit more,

and I'll obviously probably keep doing that for a long time post this, but not sacrificing the melody. I'm never writing a whole lyric, though, before I've lit, melody it. I know some people do that. They will write the whole, they'll basically write poetry and melody it, which to me is too far. I do think they definitely react more so than that way. But yeah, I definitely am on a journey of that.

of learning to appreciate a melody. Yeah, melodies, to me, just as important. No, historically, they've been good as well. Like, there are some good melodies out there. But also not being lazy and using the same melody completely all the time, which I had to learn how to do. I definitely am still on that songwriting-wise. Making sure that I'm not being lazy is one thing.

But then also what I would say about your new album, what's the album called? Fluorescence. Florescence, that's right. But what I enjoyed the most about it was I didn't feel like there was you threw away any lines, any lyrics, which I hear all the time and everyone's, and I'm not like some hypercritic either. I'm not. It's just what I hear. And I can live with some of it.

I can go, that's fine. But then when I hear someone do what you did, which is I don't think you threw away any lyrics, which is like really nice. it's refreshing. And it's quite a job. And I'm with you when they say, but or and or cause or whatever those little words, what are those called? Prepositions? Yeah. Okay. Prepositions when you misuse them or throw them away or fill space with them or it really bugs me. I'm actually more bugged by that than with an overuse of a baby. Like I think some people really go to bat for like no babies and songs. And I feel ambivalent about babies and songs, but I fucking hate a double butt. Like, and that makes sense to you. Yeah. Like, and it does. I never thought about that. No babies and

songs, but people hate, people will really get at me. If I, you know, you do a baby and then you do a baby again. But I feel like there can be, there can be a time where that is authentic to the song. And that, like, that's a, that's, there's a meaning in that. There's no me is that's got meaning. A double bar. Like, but I love you so much. But I don't think. about like it's it's not it it's never say it such a good but it's just such a strong but if you're going to use it twice in the same sentence and you would and you would just never it was so weird to do it's so weird but it's so nice to talk about because what i actually have never had this conversation unless i was in the room working on and there was a double button and then you have to be the

guy to be like guys we're better than this but your songs really got me thinking which was great That's great. That's cool. Thank you. It's a good album. Oh, thank you. How long did you spend on it? Here we go.

I spent, I guess, about a year and a half. It's like top to bottom. Yeah. Is that long? Is that short? What do you think? It's long? Mm-hmm.

Not the longest. No. But year and a half in the very first song I wrote for it on the first day of that year and a half. Right. And then the end being it's like mixed and mastered. And it's a finished thing. Probably a good year. Yeah.

So, yeah, as in that probably cumulatively a year. And then, yeah, six months for just waiting around to get, to get back in with people or to do this or that or whatever it was. I think that's a really good, thoughtful amount of time. I actually agree. You know, it felt long when I was in it because there was definitely kind of, well, you just said, there was a few months here and there where I wasn't actively working on it for different reasons. People's schedules weren't free. We weren't lining up or whatever it was.

and that felt very long to me. But actually looking back, I think it was a good amount of time because sometimes the time you're not making the music is subconsciously important to when you go and do it. Yeah. Giving yourself time to not do the thing you would do without thinking. Sometimes it's good to actually do the thing you would do with thinking. Yeah. And to have the time to...

Yeah. Reflect. Yeah, like to be thoughtful enough to get the details right and let things happen. Yeah. That's a good amount of time. What's been the hardest thing that you've had to, if you could say there was a challenging stage or time or moment in your career from, what age were you when you started?

16. Okay, so that's when you decided I'm going to do this. Yeah, I think so. It wasn't actually super active thought. I just did it. I just had, it was in bands and I had a YouTube channel and I put my original music on my YouTube channel. but I actually, I wasn't doing it for an end goal. Oh.

I don't think. What did you think you wanted to do? I just wanted to. With your life. Go to university maybe. It's funny. I know that maybe sounds like I'm lying, but I'm not. Like I didn't, I didn't have any, like, grand ambitions until I started, really, until

it was sort of somebody suggested it to me. I met my manager now when I was 16. And, and, you know, he was like, do you, do you want to write with other people? And I really did. I thought that was so cool. And then it was, do you want to sign a publishing deal? And I really did.

And I thought that was so cool. But I didn't, I never thought to seek it out. I just, I loved writing songs. I was writing a song every day for years. So you thought maybe I'll be a songwriter? Yeah,

but I didn't know that was a job. I just did, I just really liked doing it. Like I just had, I had this YouTube channel, which I had because I made a couple other internet friends and they had YouTube channels. And there was this little community of people in the UK.

putting original stuff on YouTube and like a little community of fans who would who would watch and engage and i thought that was so cool sort of like the beginning of social media for me and i thought that was cool so i made youtube videos in my house but i guess it was it was like 2016 i don't know i it wasn't the same as it was now i guess yeah it's different you didn't know what it could lead to in the same way yeah that was actually the time when that stuff became this stuff so it was like the early days of a certain modality. Mm-hmm. And I didn't know about it, really?

I'm like, I wasn't from London or a big city. Where are you from? A small town near Brighton. Near Brighton? Oh, one of my very close friends is in a band from Brighton. Really? Architects. You know architects?

Yeah, I do. Sam. I don't know any of them personally, but I do know architects. Oh, you love Sam. Really? You should link us up. Lyrics and melody. I think he's in,

Architects is a heavy band, but if you listen to their lyrics and you listen to the melody and you, they have a very interesting way of making music and they're also just great guys who have carved out this like really interesting style of heavy music.

So when you hear it, it's very aggressive and very heavy. But then you go beneath the music and it's this thoughtful, really not, like cool really nice interesting it always as a as a fan of songwriting i always listen to the records and i love the lyrics and i love the songwriting and they're just like sweet nice people love very conscious nice people so um yeah and sam and and the band are from brighton oh yeah good guys brighton's a good place yeah makes good people i think yeah do you feel like it's funny you listened to the

to the whole album before you met me, do you feel that I am what you thought I would be through listening to the album? Yes, you're what I hoped you would be. Oh, okay, good. What are you hoped? Because you're fun, but you're serious. Thank you.

Which is a good combination. Thank you. Because I feel like you mean what you say, which is nice, it's refreshing. Because sometimes I think we can throw ourselves away. It's more like, Who am I? Well, who am I? What is what I say matter? You know what I mean? I have I have been guilty of that in my past for a very long time. I had you know, it was like some self-esteem stuff or

whatever. But I think that you're a serious girl. You make great music. It needs to exist. I think it's a world where there's a lot of easy ways to get there. There's a lot of shortcuts you can take. There's a lot of things you can throw away. And I think you're doing the hard work, which is writing songs and being vulnerable and then going out into the world and not hiding. You know, not to say, listen, there's lots of ways to present this stuff, but you present it in a way that I think is important. And yeah, when I heard the record, I was like, this is a building on what you've done in a really, really great. way where I can tell the hours. I can hear the hours. I can hear the work in it. But when I heard

the record, I was excited to talk to you. And then I was like, well, there's always the possibility that someone is not open and they don't want to talk about anything. And so the conversation can't flow. That would be a funny thing to do on a podcast. But I suppose people are doing that. There's definitely an openness that has to have to be comfortable. If you weren't open, I would be more self-conscious and then there would be a less fun conversation. For sure. But your music and you, I can feel how open and honest you're being in your songs because when I sit with you, it's the same person.

That's so cool. Well, that's cool to hear. I guess I've never really asked anyone that before because it's kind of unique that someone would hear your music before they've. Well, actually, no, that's not unique at all, but I'm unlikely to ask somebody. But to have a first listen, which is not a lot of people I've had, I felt. Upon first listen, yeah. Yeah.

What about me? we just wrap it there at cuts um yeah yeah larry davy in it larry davy so i can't do it i'm kidding i'm kidding so you know i think like my if my base level gonna be so honest was lifestyles of the rich and the famous yeah you're quite different from from that yeah i mean makes sense yeah if I was to talk to the human embodiment of that song, I think we'd be having different conversations. Yeah.

But you're the duality of man, you know what I mean? You can be both. Yes. But you know what? I did, I was in Australia recently, and when you guys were either in Australia or had just been in Australia. Okay.

And I'm good friends with this guy called Thomas Bleach, she does my PR, and he was working with you guys at the same time. And he said, you guys were really nice and you were massive in Australia. And I did think you were Australian for a bit. So you're not. We're not.

No. So I learned that. A lot of people think we're Australian. Yeah. And you're not. So that's another thing I didn't expect. But he did say, you guys, your show was great. He loved your show.

And you guys were really, yeah. Yeah, I'm glad you think so. And he loved, yeah, he loved you guys, loved your show and said you were really easy and fun to work with. So that was subconsciously my mind. And that you were not Australian. Yes. Because I did. I actually think I said that you were on TV.

So just letting you know that now. Well, not at all. No. And so. Somebody should clip that. They're not Australian. If you thought they were. Turns out they're not.

I thought you were as well. Did you? No. People do think that, though, to be fair. I just know how... I think English and Australians get annoyed when you mix the two up. Well, yeah. Maybe we do.

We're sort of an annoyed base level bunch of the English. Yes. So it doesn't take much. Doesn't take much. No, sir. But it turns out you're not Australian. Neither am I. But you're English.

You're very English. I am. Thank you. And it's great. I love it. I love the English. You guys love the English. We love it.

A little bit of an accent, tell a joke. They go wild. It's so great. You just turn up the American accent all the way. Big time. I actually have quite a good American accent. Would you like to hear? Yeah, please.

Maybe this is the end. That is so tight. Say it again? That is so tight. Say, oh my God. Oh my God. That was so tight. Yeah, okay.

You did it. This episode, so tight. Macy, thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for being here. It was a pleasure. Good luck with the record. Thank you.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Artists Friendly. You can also watch the episodes on Spotify. Spotify premium users get no commercial breaks on my show. Make sure to follow, like, and comment because I always read the comments.