Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Mario

Episode Date: January 3, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by R&B singer Mario. Mario is a legend of 2000s R&B. After adapting Biz Markie’s “Just a Friend” when he was only 15 — which opened his 2002 self-titled album — he soon entered global stardom. Ever since, he’s delved into different lanes, including acting, writing, and independently launching his New Citizen label, and cemented his legacy. Additionally, he released a new single, “Main One,” last summer, which features Tyga and last week’s guest Lil Wayne — a track whose alluring music video boasts over 12 million views. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. Today, I'll be talking to Grammy Award-nominated, multi-platinum, R&B singer, songwriter, actor, and entrepreneur, Mario. And he's from Maryland, just like me. Let's go. How long have you lived in L.A.? On and off for about 15 years. Okay.

I've been here for 20. 20? Like, from where? From Maryland. Right, from Maryland, right. Fire, bro. That's one of the reasons I was... It's obviously been a fan of yours for a long time because coming from Maryland, it's a big deal when someone makes it to the national and the global level.

And I mean, globally to do something at the highest level, there isn't a ton of people around you doing that in Maryland. So it's a big deal when someone does. But it's a lot of talent in Maryland. A lot of talent. So much. I actually did like a research one day. I can't remember everybody, but there's a lot of people from my area that has had success. But you don't really, when you're there, you don't really associate that with coming from Maryland.

No, not at all. Feel that. It's almost like we should open up like a little museum for success. People who came out of Maryland. Honestly, but think about it. They do have a museum for like Babe Ruth. Oh, right, right, right, right. If you had a museum for people that, like, all the different people that have come from Maryland and all the different, like, categories and walks of life, like, there's a lot of talent, but it's weird because it's when you're, you're, you know,

you're there it's it's it's uh everywhere it feels like a small place yeah no everywhere it does and it's a lot of little small sectors and towns and yeah different thing i mean growing up in baltimore i was i moved a lot around a lot just in baltimore all around the city so i never went to other places outside of baltimore right like it wasn't until i got older and started like doing shows and i'm like oh shit snap we got cool stuff in maryland like it's a lot of cool little areas and stuff so you know being in music gave me such a broader understanding of even where i come from yeah otherwise i wouldn't i wouldn't have probably had it i grew up in like a big family but my family didn't we didn't go outside of our comfort zone yeah i grew up in emerson village

then we moved to pikesville then we moved to um i lived back in east baltimore before i left and i got adopted at 13 so yeah yeah it was it was a lot of moving around though you got adopted at 13 yeah yeah what's that like to to get adopted at 13. Honestly speaking, by the time I got adopted, I was pretty like numb to life. Right. Because I have been through so much, like,

growing up in the city, and I saw so much, I got a lot of love for my grandmother and, like, you know, our family structure just like, everybody had to love each other, 18 of us and under one of them. Like cousins, older cousins, aunts, uncles. It was kind of like that scene from Minnesota Society when the party was happening, like,

it was that energy, but it felt normal. You know what I'm saying? So by the time my grandmother passed away and things that happened, I was like numb to everything. So I didn't really feel much sadness or much. I didn't know what I was feeling. I was 13 years old and I was just experiencing life day by day. It wasn't until I gotten older and I looked back on life and realize like the, I guess the controlled chaos within myself. Yeah.

Because I never reacted to what was going on around me. I just was observing all of it, you know, and just trying to figure out. Like, I always felt a big before my time. And I think that's one of the reasons why coming into the music industry, I was kind of like already super mature and like I wasn't really like, like a kid in the candy, so I was just kind of like, okay, what's next? Like, you know, what crazy journey is this next? You know what I'm saying?

I think the hardest part about the adopted part was just the fact that I was completely away from my family and it was a completely new type of control structure. It was, you know, I never had a father figure. So it was like someone trying to like beam up my dad. It was like, suddenly. Like, what is this? Yeah. So, yeah, that was the hardest part.

That to me though is like, it's crazy when I think about artists that it's weird because like I have followed your career, but over 20 years I've been following your career, which is crazy to even say. It is. And we're in this weird business where like we straight up, we see people don't, we see them go down to it. We see, we see people don't survive. Yeah, it's, it's tough because you have to, people have to see it.

Yeah. When you're not in the public eye or when this isn't your path, like you can go through your dark moments and your shadow work and everything and not have it be exploited in a way, you know. And that's the hard part about it. And so I think that I think I did good with managing the parts of myself that I didn't want the world to see and dealing with any moments of like complete chaos in my life without it being exploited. You know, it was one thing that happened. But like other than that, it was like, you know.

Well, there's always going to be one thing. Like, you know what I'm saying? Or two or three. And I learned that early on, you know what I'm saying? I learned that especially when the digital crusades happened, bro. Like I'm like okay this is about the like this is changing the landscape of how we live you know The digital crusades that's what I call it that's in that is I've never heard anyone say that And I'm like you know what you just nailed it bro that's what I call it that's that's that's crazy

That is a really great way of putting it and you see people fall victim to it and it's a real thing We all have an hallway yeah and it's like the prime example of like okay you can think one way and you may have the answers to like solving problems of a million people right you could give them but if 999 you know thousand people follow this one way and you have the answers it's like it's going to affect the whole movie you know what I'm so so it's like that's the control of the the internet you know what I'm saying and it's the reality we live in it's the reality we live in so you know I think I think now it's getting to a point though now where it's like, okay, I'm starting to kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel because

it's like, it's forcing us to have to wake up to like, oh, what's how the world is being, when I say the world, I don't mean earth itself, like people, how collective consciousness how every society is performing in life every day. It's like you have to kind of choose like, you know, choose what you're, who you want to be and what, what information you want to take in? What do you want to watch, you know, what do you want to watch? you know, what do you want to be your guy? What do you want to be your vices visually and subconsciously?

Like, it's getting to that point where I'm like, okay, this world is like very addictive. Yep. And it doesn't even have to be real. And so it's like you got to kind of make sure you know what you're doing there. Yeah. I was just talking about this. It's crazy.

I was just talking about this today that like what I kind of realized this week, I don't even know what made me think about it. Oh, I do a TV show called Inkmasters. It's a fun TV show, very light. It's a tattoo show. Fire. I got like 20 tattoos. Yeah, yeah.

You have tattoos. It's easy. It's not heavy. And I was promoting it and I went on a show and I was casually, I was comfortable. So I was casually just talking about like my wife and, you know, it was nice. It was like, they were like, how have you guys been together so long? And I'm like, oh, you know, lots of therapy. And it was kind of joke, but also we have gone to therapy, but I also go to therapy myself.

So like, I don't know. It's not that foreign to people now. Like it feels pretty casual to say. Yeah. And then I saw a thing today. I have, I don't promote stuff a lot. Yeah. So you know when you go out on promotional tours and you're doing TV shows and stuff, it's a little

stressful and you're a little uncomfortable and you're just trying to find your way through it and you know yeah for sure just feels weird like how to you know how to like say in these small bites in these small times everything that this means to you everything that right yeah and then avoid certain things that you know will be the headline so then the headline is joll and Nicole go to therapy to whatever yeah and it's like wrote up it's like one second out of the whole of you. Yeah. And also I kind of embarrassed. I felt embarrassed. Because like also I don't want to embarrass my wife. Yeah. It's really not anyone's business anyways in some regards. But then in other way, it's like, is that so bad anyways? Like, but I had a moment where I was like,

fuck man, I feel embarrassed. And I told my wife that. I was like, I feel fucking stupid, man. Why did I even go on that and say that? Yeah. And because I don't even fucking care. I don't even need to go on that. That's like when you just like a cool person and you go in the interviews, you're just like, when people always say like, what can't we talk about? I'm like, I don't know. Talk about whatever. Whatever. That's where that matters. It's like, but then you don't also, it's like, you know, when you make music that has lived with people for you, like you don't want things to feel like you don't want to push people away. It's like you literally could be changing somebody's life. And the person that the host of the show isn't even trying to get that out of

you like they're cool it's just the media aspect of it but i told her that and she was like i don't know it just feels like you were being yourself don't think about it and then i was thinking about that and um we were talking here and i and i came to the conclusion that like as embarrassing as those moments can be sometimes when we are vulnerable or even if we're not being vulnerable and we're just being casual and being honest yeah the most sustainable thing we can be is ourselves Very true, bro. If we create a character that we have to live up to, it's unsustainable. It's true.

And I also think, like, as artists, sometimes we, I know that I speak for myself, but like, sometimes I overthink what people may think about something like that. Yeah. People don't even care. Yeah. Most of the time, no one cares. That's right. They really don't. And you're like, oh.

They're literally reading it while they're like going to the bathroom. They don't care. You know what I'm saying? And so, it's true. It's true. It's true. We get in our head, though. For sure. Because we're thinkers.

Our job is to actualize emotion. Our job is to actualize stories. Our job is to make people believe what we feel is real through the music and know that is real and affect them. So for sure, man. I feel like you have over the last 20-some years done a, first of all, I think, you know, R&B music and what you represent in R&B music and what you experience at a young age and then essentially growing up in this. Yeah.

And you're having, you know, a lot of success with your new music, which is a testament to talent. Thanks. And experience. Definitely experience for sure. And also, though, from the outside, I look at it and I go, you must have found some calm in there to not be, I'm trying to explain it without insulting. I think I'm not trying. I don't want to insult other artists.

But it's the truth. Like, I think that. It feels like there's some calm or zen in there because I see people that have struggled and they're, they're jumping out at all these different places. And some of it, you're like, oh, they're really creative. And some of it, you're like, yo, don't do that. And then you see people who who grow up in this thing and there's some gracefulness to it. And like I feel like you have, because it can be a really ungraceful business, you know, and we all see those stories.

But I just feel like when I see you, I go, that guy must have some Zen in his life, some calm in his life, something that matters more than this music or more than this. You really just did it. what you just said is it and not to take away from the the gratefulness I have and the gratitude I have for people buy my music streaming, listening over the years

coming to shows like I just came off for tour like but in anything that we do and this is for anybody listening like your meaning of life and for life cannot be your occupation and it can't be

something that can be taken away from you I agree you have to have you have to build a ship around you energetically that is yours. And that space and that place is sacred to you. And it has to be in order for you to be protected and order you to protect yourself. And that's something that I think after moving from Baltimore for the second time when I moved back at 19 years old, moving back to Baltimore at 19 is different from 13. Right.

The reality of what I was able to remember and see that I was living and what people were living in the city and what was going on in my family, just my life. And where I really came from as opposed to what the world knew about me was two completely different worlds. And so I stayed in Baltimore for like five years as an artist, though, as a working artist. and it matured me a lot spiritually, mentally, psychologically. And I'm grateful for the struggles and the distorted chaos moments that I was experiencing personally that drove me to want to move and to understand life from every aspect spiritually. And that's what I think changed for me when I moved back. When I moved to L.A., I was like, okay, this city's interesting.

It has all of the elements of like, whatever life you want to live, you can live it. You can be anyone you want. You know what I'm saying? You can be anything you want here, right? And you're also. It was good and bad to that. Right. And so, but because I've seen so much failure in life, failure as in personal failure.

Not oh I tried this idea or this job and it did work like failure on a soul level right When I came here it was like Nothing could break me You know I'm saying it was just like okay all I need now was just space for me to like grow And I started studying I grew up chriside I took my shahad I was Muslim for five years and I became a mystic at 323 And 44 And from that point

You're 44? 24. 24. Sorry. How old are you now? I'm 37. I'm so fucking young. Yeah, man.

It's a blessing. I'm seven years older than you. Interesting. Okay. Because it keeps you young, bro. Yeah, if you allow it, it'll keep you young. Yeah, if you can laugh and you can try to enjoy life, you can stay in. But yeah, it was like, that was the point where I made a decision with myself.

Like, look, as a kid, even when I moved back to Baltimore, I abandoned myself. for a lot of other people and a lot of other things. And I told myself that I would never do that again. And I made that. It was like a ritual. It was like a literally decision that I made. I was like, I will never abandon you. I told that to the kid inside of me.

Yeah. Never abandon you again, bro. It's us for life. Eternity. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's an immortal relationship that I have for myself. And it is, it's real.

It is real. And also, like, we talk about, people talk about the inner child and in a in a therapeutic way but there is actually like i believe it because i had to do that with myself too like coming you know coming up in a tough childhood you know poverty some trauma all that stuff um very complicated relationship right with my dad who who who who left when i was young um but i always have my twin brother so i was really lucky because we were like so tight we raised each other. Wow.

We depended on each other. The relationship with yourself is it's one that's weird because we don't, it's really hard to talk about, especially in music. Because most of the time in music, if you've made music, especially successful music, nobody really wants to hear about your pain, but all that music comes from pain. It does. All of it comes. Even if you're singing about, it don't matter.

If it's coming out of you, whatever's coming out of you, it may sound beautiful, but it could be still be coming from pain. Yep. I've sang love songs my whole life. Like I've made a couple of songs that were other, that released independently. They weren't as successful as the other songs, but they mean just as much to me personally.

Yeah. And so I agree, bro. Like, energy doesn't die. And I feel like, you know, if you, if you, if you, if you, the same thing that, the same power that can come from darkness can, is coming from light too.

It's like, it's weird. It's an interesting thing. But it's like some of the hardest moments moments of my life, I've done the best work. Yeah. When I'm on stage or if I go through something, like I work really good under pressure. It's my life, it's been my life.

It's like, no, it's happening now and I hope you're ready for it. You're like, you know, there's something beautiful about that pressure. And I think as artists, we learn, we adapt to working under that type of pressure. But we just have to also use that for our own well-being as well.

As much healing as we give to other people through the music, We got to take care of ourselves. And coming from a tough place or any kind of a challenge growing up, right? Because I also say that. Like, I had a tough childhood, but it was, I'm sure there's someone listening that had a tougher for sure. For sure. And I got my brother.

I was lucky, right? But I do know that we always said that. We were like, man, what we made it out of, this is nothing. Right. Okay. So I don't have a hit right. record. Right. Or the tour didn't sell out. Right. Or drop me or no one cares about me. You know, and I, and I remember having moments in my career that were down times, right? Yeah. Where like at the

end of a seven, eight year run, nine year run, whatever. And then suddenly it's just like, we're not the hot shit anymore like in this moment. And there's some new thing. And coming into music with a low self-esteem and kind of like getting my self-esteem from the success of my music was a, it wasn't that it was a mistake, but it was a learning that like, oh, oh, it's good the music did well,

but also you can't have your self-esteem wrapped up in it. You've got to find your own self-esteem. And I remember in one of those times, which actually was the beginning of the most powerful, probably a decade of my life, which has been the last 10 to 12 years, was actually my wife saying like having a real like moment where I was depressed and angry a little bit, you know,

and she was like, what are you talking about? You come from nothing. Getting from there to here was the hard part. Getting from here to there is the easy part. Life is not. Life is not. Life is hard like it was growing up and she's like I just think you need to remember who you are sometimes we need that where you're from sometimes we need that reminder bro I've I feel you and thank you for sharing that story because I remember multiple times when I don't feel like I ever felt like oh I want to give up on music or like I'm not successful as I should be or I had these moment because like I said during that time when I made that decision I actually wasn't planning on there was somewhere I made that said that if I never started making music again

I'm totally okay with that and but it was also because of where I was spiritually at the moment but I definitely hit rock bottom at a point when I had went through like some things with my mom this was way before she passed when I was still living home like that was my thing darkest moments for sure because I thought I was doing everything right. Like I thought me moving back home and like, you know, getting her a place and like giving her everything she wanted was going to change her decisions and in turn make my life better because I felt like, okay, this is all I'm missing. But it just my ego was so, I guess my heart's ego. I don't know how to describe it, but because I felt like I failed that. It took me to a place that had never been before.

Because I'm like, okay, if I can't turn to you, who, what do I? What else is there? You know what I'm saying? Because I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for her. She recognized my talent, my grandmother did. So it was like, if I can't take you on this journey with me, then what is it? What am I doing? Who do I take with me?

You know, so I had to kind of get myself out of that, which is why I moved out of Baltimore. So, you know, I think those rock bottom points for us as creatives are really important. And it kind of helps us. to redefine what our purpose is in this shit like you know what I'm saying yeah the people around us and who is around us during that time like you know what I'm saying you had your wife that's a beautiful thing you know so yeah I think those moments are and I think it's just in life period everybody that is doing anything the wrong people will point to things that make you feel like a failure like or vices or vices they'll encourage vices

or they'll say like, why didn't you get nominated? Oh, right. You know, or whatever. Right. And the right people will remind you who you are. Yeah. And at your best self. But I'm just happy you're here because.

Yeah, for sure. Man, that's a blessing. I always wanted to talk to you. We met a couple times through, back in the day in passing like maybe there's a radio show or something. Radio show is a word show like that. Yeah. And you were always really nice. And I was always like.

from Maryland now I'm from the more like PG and Charles County side so that's more like DC side but I spent later on spent a lot more time in Baltimore of Baltimore it's crazy Baltimore is definitely crazy it's wild it's a wild it's a wild it's a wild see one of a kind small small and friendly but wild yes friendly but wow I mean I guess it just depends on or on who you know what you're doing out there but definitely like you know just like any other place man some good restaurants great food great seafood great people great food great food vibes but you know i think i think that the history of the city and at one point the city being one of the capitals of like heroin and like just it's such a small city's like a lot of like you know competition in the streets and like it's a lot

going on you know and you know i grew up in an era where heroin and crack and all of that was Heroin was big. You know what I'm saying? You walk outside, you're going to see needles on the ground. It was like the early 2000s, the late 90s and early 2000s heroin was big. Everybody was trying to, you know, everybody was coming through that. It was crazy. I remember we were talking about it in the early, in the late 90s, the early days of our band.

We started in 96. We would be playing parties around the Baltimore area, like little shows. And people were on heroin. We didn't know it at the time. Wow. And then you kind of start putting it together And you're like, oh, I remember we, me and Benj years later I never did heroin, right?

I never fucked with drugs. But we put it together that they were all, we were playing like these parties sometimes And there would be like, it was a total heroin vibe We just didn't know they were on heroin. It was, it was saying that before that's crazy. You know what I did not. It was definitely, you know, I saw so much of it

that it became the norm, you know what I'm saying? But it definitely impacted the family. But music was something I feel like my mother, she was like, when she found out I love music, she was like, I got to keep this around him. So she always had me on talent shows and singing that. Every time she could tell somebody or show somebody I had talent, she was making me sing at a birthday party. I grew up singing in church. It was like, that kind of like gave me a world, you know, when you're always living another world when you hear music. Like, when you're musicians, it's a whole other world.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So I think that's what really saved me from going down the wrong path. Yeah. Obviously leaving the city. Yeah. I feel that way too. For sure.

I think music saved me. I think you got to move away from the nest, bro. It's important because people around you sometimes can't really see the greater you until you're not around. Yeah. It's just like a thing, right? And so unless you like opening up a restaurant or like doing it, like when it comes to music, which is such a mystical thing, that doesn't exist until you create it, you have to leave sometimes.

Yeah. Yeah. How's L.A.? How is L.A. right now? Yeah. L.A. is good, bro. Like, you know. I've been there 20 years.

I love it. I don't know if I've ever seen it like it is now. I've never seen a place like L.A. before, bro. I've never been to a place. I would say that, okay, L.A., it's a beautiful place. Yeah. And like I said,

there's so many different dimensions to this place. Yeah. That if you are a person who enjoys dementia jumping, then you would love it here. Yeah. I like dimension jumping. I grew up dimension jumping. So for me, I loved it when I moved here.

I'm like, oh, okay, this is the place where the outcasts from their cities come and can be as weird as they want and be whoever they want, you know, and try that and fail at that. Yeah. When there are other things. You know, it's just a place. I mean, there's so many ways we could describe it. But I love L.A.

Yeah. Obviously, I feel like a lot of it, as far as living-wise, it's always been an expensive place. But now it's like the energy doesn't match what it costs sometimes. A little crazy right now. It's crazy. It's like you would think that, okay, for a place that so many people have given energy to, that the energy would be returned in a better fashion. But I think we're in like a process of like I always think things have to die and be like reborn.

And I think that we're in the process of like a little bit of that here in the city. Because I think that that I think is everywhere, but I feel what you're saying. Yeah. I feel what you're saying. I think people like have an innate weird. Like I feel like as a human, humans as a culture, we destroy things. Yeah. Like we just want to see them burn.

And then we all stand around the next day, like hungover. Like, that was crazy. Should we go get lunch and like sit quietly until we get a couple days away from this like hangover and we can go back to normal? Like I really feel like humans like we have these boiling point moments. Yeah, for sure that like doesn't understand balance. Yeah. Or that that likes to be in balance sometimes. because sometimes it feels good when you're not in control or, you know,

and the influence of the positive influence, sometimes it feels good. But I think it's, yeah, the balance be off sometimes, bro. It's been weird. I've been here for 20 years. I'm raising my kids here. Yeah. We've got teenagers. It's weird to think, like, this is all they know.

They don't even really think about it. Yeah. And so there's that perspective where I'm like, well, you're now really bothered. But then I also don't realize they're, like, I feel like my kids don't. realize how much dangers around yeah and i always wonder like i don't have kids right but how much of your child do you really know like right like how much of and i and i and i and i mean it's in a respectful way but like just anyone who has kids like what how much of your child do you really know how much do they actually tell you of yeah how they think about things and

what are they experiencing mentally and emotionally every day every second of the day who are they friends and who what are they like you know what i'm saying it's like what are they really into are they going to really tell you because what yeah it's essentially you're like parents are like they represent you know it sounds whatever but like parents kind of represent god to their kids yeah until their kids get old enough and separate enough to go oh they're not god they're just like me they grew up and they had kids right right but like in the early formation of their like psyche they're like oh this is kind of you're the being that like knows all you know everything and you can yeah yeah i've been thinking about that too because they're teenagers

And I'm like, I don't want to know everything actually. Wow. Wow. That's deep. Okay. I feel you on that. I don't, I think they should have a place where they, they should have private lives. Would you interview one of your kids on this show?

I wouldn't because I'll tell you why. One thing I think about this show and one of the reasons that I like doing it is that they'll be able to listen one day. Maybe one day they'll go, I want to know my dad better. And they'll be able to listen to hundreds of hours of me talking to people. Yeah. And even if it's when I'm really old or when I'm. I'm gone. Yeah.

But I think like, so I think it's nice for a record, right? Because I'm not good at writing. So writing them a long letter doesn't feel like something I would ever do. But this is kind of like these conversations whenever I talk about my kids, it's a love letter. Because I do love them. But I also don't want to control them. And I don't want them to feel like they have to live up to my idea. Absolutely.

the freedom part is very important i do think that for sure but i want them to feel like i'm here like if they need something i'm your guy if you want to figure it out i'm your guy like we'll figure it out so you need that space for them like it's an open space for them still always but i always worry about them yeah because i love it yeah like watching your heart walk around right your heart had legs yeah you're like not for sure you know um i definitely love it i i've left plenty of times and i always find myself coming back. I feel like there's a certain, like, a level of just creativity and vastness that's here, like I said before,

that inspires me as an artist. Like, I feel like certain places are, like, one-dimensional when it comes to the type of music that's going to be created in that space. I feel like here's a little bit of everything, and it always keeps me... Like, I come from a city. Like, I come from a lot of grit. A lot of action. And so here I get grit, I get beauty, I get soulfulness, I get everything, you know what I'm saying?

There's a neighborhood for everything here. Exactly. One thing I feel like I wish happened more here, which I do get in certain circles that I walk in, is like more teamwork amongst like the different types of people and artists that are in the city. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like the different types of music that everybody makes, like something that's a little more, you know, of a collaboration. on something. I don't know what that is, but that's what I wish that.

It's like pockets here of little groups of people. I thought it was really hard the first five years. And then once I met my wife and kind of started settling down in that way, it got a lot different. It got a lot easier. You met her here. I met her. She's from here. Oh, wow.

Well, actually, she's actually from Oakland. She was here off and on, but she got adopted when she was nine. and she was here full time from there. Yeah. But like L.A. has always has really been home. Fire. Where she like got, you know, her parents really, her mom and dad and her family life bloomed here. And she, she, I think.

I think that's beautiful. I think it's beautiful to find love in a space where you're also still finding yourself and creating your destiny. I think it's interesting. I always think about like that. That's why I ask what's it like to be adopted at 13 because I ask her the same question. What's it like to be adopted at nine? Because you hear about people getting adopted when they're babies. So they don't have any other memory of their family.

And it's complicated. But like what I see with her is like because I talked about moving from LA a few times because this is not my my childhood memories of like home will always be Maryland. So when I go home to Maryland, it's very, it's the only nostalgia I feel is when I'm home in Maryland. Wow, that's crazy. Right. So when you drive down a road and you're like, I remember this from when I was a kid, or I remember this smell or this, you know, your first formative moments of happiness,

of sadness, of heartbreak, of joy, all happened in this area. And so you have these familial feelings. And when you're here, I don't have any. I don't have any familial feelings. Interesting. And so. Even ones that you've been created from living here? Yeah, like I have some good memories.

Right. But like those formative years, I was in Maryland until I was 21. Right. Okay. So it's just like a feeling you have. So when we go home probably like two or three times a year, I take my kids with me. And I have a really good, when I go home, I have a really nice time. I like that.

I'll talk to anyone there. I'm actually going back home for the holidays with family members from both sides of my great, like my great grandmother's sister. The other side of our family is in Philly. So we're actually going to Philly And we'll all be together for the first time And like Can't even count the years, bro That's cool

It's gonna be interesting Yeah It's gonna be interesting I'm looking forward to it Yeah and by the way When I come back Yeah I always have like a lot of stuff to process

You know for sure You know for me I got to mentally prepare for it Yeah you Because we also had a pretty complicated Family life I always have to kind of go back With a therapeutic mindset

Right Where I go okay I know that I'm gonna have a really good time in some ways. And I know in some ways I'm going to have experiences that trigger me make me feel like jumpy, make me feel anxious. And as long as I know that, I can come back here and kind of unpack it all and process it and go like and I feel like it makes me better for it. But I have a really good time. When I go home, I don't feel like I have, even though LA is a great

town, when I'm home, I'll talk to anyone and just have like a little like small town conversation. Absolutely. I don't know. There's something about that. Yeah. It's, it's important. It brings you, I want to say humble you, because you obviously are a humble person, but like. Sometimes. It just reminds you of how vast life is and just like what, that it's limitless, bro. Like, to me, that's what I feel when I go home and I talk to like an old neighbor or somebody who knew my grandmother or somebody who knew my mom. Like, I'm like, I'm like, wow. And then it also reminds you, the effect that they've had on, like certain families that had on people. And those are the things that I love most about it, I think,

and just like going back to like the different places that I've lived. You can have these small interactions that are just that. We're never going to be best friends. But they're wishing you well. You're wishing them well. And you're passing people on the road. And it's not always a step towards your goal. All right.

You know, in like L.A., sometimes I feel like we, We live in an environment where everyone's like taking another step to their goal instead of like meeting a stranger. And just having just, weather's nice. I hope you're doing well. And even though that's, I think it's a character thing though, because sometimes I have those moments.

Like I don't know the environments where it's like, okay, this is work. This is like, okay, this person that I'm meeting could possibly be an impossible partner in some type of something. And then there's people that's just like random conversation. I've had,

I'm weird. Like I'll have a conversation with a homeless person. Like, and just talk about whatever it is that they're in dimensionary because like I don't know I feel like Maybe there are in another dimension You feel me? I don't know I talk to random people all the time

And I love it Yeah Like I love every time Every moment of that type of stuff bro It's refreshing To talk to somebody about something And know that there's no arterial motives It's just another person living their journey

Whatever that journey may be I feel like coming up in music, I've made some really great friendships with other artists. I feel like I have kindred spirits with a bunch of artists. You have a lot of friends who are also just... I don't know what it's like in your genre of music, right? Yeah.

I hate the term urban music. Right. In R&B and in my field of music and urban music. Right. I don't feel that camaraderie unless it's like beneficial. Right. I don't think that, you know, and I see a lot of people that say they are friends or say they, but it's because maybe, I think there's some people that obviously there's real relationships. I wonder that.

Most of the time, what I see is like, you know, it's because it's beneficial. Right. It's a little transactional. Transactional, yeah, for sure. Me personally, a lot of it I would say is my fault because I've always been like, you know, like to myself and like kind of like standoff is with people. It takes a lot for me to like trust people and to be vulnerable. I've just started being that way over the past few years being more vulnerable

because I don't want people to get me fucked up. So like I started being more like, nah, like you have to be yourself fully because otherwise people are going to make assumptions. Right. Not that it matters, but it does at the same time. Right. So I started just being a little bit more social and like, you know, Latin people in my world more.

But I wouldn't say I have a lot of real friends. I have a lot of associates. Right. I think it takes a lot for someone to be my real friend. Right. And the times that I have tried, I think that there's just different mental, I think there's just different lifestyles

and different ways of life. And I have a very short social media, I would say. And I also like to take time away from things and people often. Like when I go on tour, when I get home, I don't want to talk to people for like a week. Yeah, you need that solitude. Yeah.

Like, you know, so yeah, I think a lot, it's 50, 50, 50% me being a very, being a loner and being kind of an introvert. That's a very honest fair. And it's 50% of it being just how the industry is. The environment. Yeah. That's super fair, by the way.

And I don't know that many people would, would like take ownership over. like we were talking about this and I said if I have the same problem with more than one or two people then I have to look at myself for sure what is it about me that's causing this but it's 50-50 right because the environment is real I'm gonna be honest with you too a lot of the music in in my genre whether it be R&B or hip-hop it's like built off of ego right that's just the way there is like a There is a persona that you have to have to survive. It feels like it's hard.

I watch it sometimes. And everybody don't know how to turn it off. So it's like, who am I talking to? You or am I talking to you? You got to keep your guard up a little bit sometimes. Yeah, it's kind of interesting. But doesn't that like... I don't do it as, I don't really keep my guard up anymore.

I try to go in like this so that I know who's like this. Yeah. When you're going like this, you know who's like this. Yeah. And I respect whatever it is. It makes sense, though, because, but also the idea that you're a loner when I think about just hearing what you've told me about your life and knowing where you're from, because I have been there, right?

And I don't even go there that much, right? You know what I mean? But it's what. But I know, and I know what I know. Exactly. So it makes sense to me when I put it together. And it never left me. Right.

Right, because it can't. Yeah, it's crazy. It's hardwired into you. That's the nature of us as like, as a species is we're these extremely resilient survival species. So we adapt to our environment to survive and then that stuff gets hardwired into us. And then we're thrown into this other environment that's like Disneyland. Right.

But it's important. Like we needed that. You feel me? Like I feel like growing up in Baltimore gave me the resilient. spirit that you need in a business like this. It becomes you're saying. I don't care how successful or not successful your career is. It is a jungle.

It will eat you alive. You have to really be built for it so that you can both have your career, which you should separate from who you are to a certain degree in terms of what makes you happy, what you really love outside of just, you know, music and going on tour and all these things. Like who are you really outside of that, right? You got to separate it. In order for you to enjoy life outside of that, you can't take on the gravity of it fully until your life.

Like if something bad happens in it, you got to know how to separate it. It's really important. The thing that would have been the biggest challenge also becomes your biggest strength when at this stage in your life, you can live where you want. By the strength of your hard work and the life you made for yourself, you can live where you want, you can live how you want. you can interact with who you want. All of that is a choice now. It wasn't a choice then, right?

You could perceive that as like a weakness, right, or a challenge. And I said this, me and my brother talk about this all the time, all the things that we were the most embarrassed of or the most challenging parts of our life all became our strengths. Mm-hmm. Right? And it's just like a mindset thing. So that's interesting, like to me when I see it in real life,

because you're a successful guy, you're sitting here. You don't have to go anywhere you don't want to go. You don't have to be here. You get to, you're at a stage in your life and your career, right? You have a legacy. I just, I think like now it's like about this conversation and you have in the journey that you've had. Like I've watched, you know, some of the ones you've done in the past podcast, you've done in the past interviews. And I'm like, okay, this is one I like this.

I like this energy. That's cool. That's like what I think about. I don't do a lot of interviews. Yeah, I know. It's like, it's like, I just have to like, it just have to feel right. It's a little live forever. You did a, you talked to Joe Budden and I actually want to have him on this show.

Yeah. Because I think he's a Virgo. I think he's interesting. He is a Virgo. Yeah. My wife's a Virgo. And Virgo's are interesting characters. That's true.

And I, I like, I'm obsessed with like understanding. people that achieve things, right? We could argue about brand, we could argue about perception. And in entertainment, there's all different opinions, right? You could talk to someone about one person about my music, and they'd be like, they're the greatest. You could talk to another person, they'd be like, well. Yeah, right, right, right.

So I'm out of age now, though, where I understand that. It's not personal for me. I'm just kind of like, I think it's good for the, I think all. The whole conversation's good, right? And then I also think I'm going to cut you off. It's also about how people experience you, man. It's like for someone to be like, oh, they're the musical, and then maybe they come to a show and they're like, oh, shit.

Or like, whatever, like, come watch you create in the studio. Like, people can only dislike or like something that they've experienced. And then some people go off opinion already following the crowd. But, like, you got to give people a real chance. But yeah, I was just. Because even like a music video or a song doesn't really capture the being that's projecting all this stuff out there. It's true.

And that's one of the reasons why I like to do this because I love meeting artists because I feel like we all have a similar, we all have similar qualities to us and we strangely all been through very similar experiences a lot of us. Yes, man. It's like two boxes can respect each other.

Yeah. Rather they win a fight. It's like you see them hug it out at the end. It's like, bro, we both went through war to get here. We went through war. And I feel like there is a beautiful war happening as an artist who has had a certain level of success. When you go through these fucking labyrinths of success and creativity, it's like when you go

in the studio to create a song, like it's you and God and you're creating your talent and whoever you're working with, like that in itself is its own dimension to conquer. Also, the amount of times we've been rejected or the amount of time someone's done us wrong or the amount of time someone's come in and just tried to cash out early and take that little piece of us or whatever it was. Facts. And to chalk it up to the game as many times as we have. Because how many times have you had to say, man, just chalk it up to the game because I should have seen that coming and I didn't. That's me coming from a world. Now, rock bands can be competitive. They can be standoffish. They can be jealous. They can be a lot of things, just like

human beings, right? But we're not, it's a difference. What I see as a hip hop fan, as an R&B fan, it looks extremely hard to me. Not only is it one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. The competitive nature. Yeah, the competitive nature. That is also used as a marketing to, especially these days. Yeah. So it's like, let's have beef so that we can cause a scene. I mean, sometimes they were all real beasts, but it's like, how far are you going to take it? Yeah. Like, you feel me? Like, it's like, it's just, I'm not in the genre of hip-hop, but I am in the culture.

Yeah, but R&B is, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's still. R&B is competitive, but it's completely different. Like, the label's not going on or, or no one in my team is going to be like, yo, you heard what such and such a state about you, you got to. Right. It's like, do you want to talk about it? Because you don't have to.

You know what I'm saying? I'm just saying that it's a different texture and a different reality still. Seems so stressful to me. I mean, the environment's, a lot of black artists come out as stressful, bro. Like, a lot of it is also like, you feel me? I grew up. I seen my second cousin, Rob, my first cousin, in our house that we all grew up in, like, gunpoint. You feel me?

Like, so it's like we grew up. in environments where it was sensitized to certain things. It's not even stressful. You're just desensitized to it. You're numb to it. Like you feel me? And so there's a certain level of like ignorance that comes with that numbness to where as though somebody else

might be like, how could you ever do that? It was like, that's regular. Right. Like you know what I'm saying? It becomes and it's sad, but this shit is true, you know? But for me personally, I literally tried to elevate myself above that mindset. So the things

that I allow happen around me, you know, don't mirror that type of energy. Right. Because I know how I can get. Yeah. And that's how I've stayed out of the way. Like, you feel me? And so, like, a lot of times I don't put myself around certain types of energies because I still learn from where I'm from.

Right. And it could go there and I don't, I just don't, I don't like that type of energy. But some people, like, have to be in that energy because, one, what I don't have to be, but they choose to, you know, to use it. Right. To use the energy. Because you can kind of direct it at things. You can.

Yeah. You can for sure. And then there is an idea that like, if, in there, to me, there is this, like, kind of protective layer you think it gives you sometimes, like, if you feel like, you know, feel almost safe in it. Some people have to, bro. Like, some people definitely, some artists, they come from a space where it's, like, you know, like if they slack it could end bad for them yeah you know what I'm saying so I get that I understand that but it's not lacking if it's real yeah to you and that's really where you come from I get it yeah yeah no judgment I don't respect sometimes when it's created when it's created yeah weird

you know what I feel like people are starting to understand that and want real connection and substance and to really be inspired again I feel like the landscape of music is changing even in hip-hop You know what I'm saying? I feel like some artists are realizing that growth is more important than like. Yeah, personal growth. Yeah, it's important. And I love seeing that in my community. I love seeing that.

Yeah. I feel like I'm really proud of like, you know, a lot of the artists that I see taking that step. Yeah. Even though some of them may get condemned for it, you know what I'm saying. Like I saw a GZEZ interview recently. He was saying how like at the moment where he started changing his life, like he was attacked by, you know what I'm saying. And energies that were trying to like, pulling back

pulling back. It's like that do happen bro. It's like when you are making a change in your content

it's a shift of energy because you're affecting so many people and so that's just you know that's how it goes but I think

people have to understand their power too you know what I'm saying I think obviously the mystique that comes with being an artist like you want it to be

about the art but like we gotta give people their flowers too because they're the ones who put us where we are in a sense

so people have a lot more power than they think when it comes to what they consume. I think that collectively as we evolve, we'll start to. It's like, if you eat McDonald's every day and eating bullshit every day, you're going to see how that reflects in your life physically and your environment, all that shit, right? It's the same thing with when you do personal growth, you might not listen to the same music. Your body might reject certain foods even just by changing your attitude. That's how powerful energy is.

I feel like we're getting to that space where people are starting to be like, even if you don't want to look at the truth, it's going to make you uncomfortable. And coming to terms with your past in a way that isn't like, like we can wear the struggle as a badge of honor sometimes, right? But then we also have to come to terms with how sad it was. Facts. You know, and like, I don't think enough people talk about it because we can't really as artists as successful artists.

We can't go out in the world and go, yeah, but it was really sad. You know, my childhood was really sad. Like too much. You can say, yeah, it was tough. People will accept that. But I think there's this like private, I don't even know if it's something you should talk about publicly because I don't know that everybody could actually receive that from you.

But at some point as an individual, you've got to come to terms with, even like I think sometimes I feel bad because I deeply feel other people's pain. And I might see somebody that might be the hardest person in the world. They might be the toughest person in the world. And there's a part of me that, inspired by that because it makes me feel safe when I listen to the music. I'm like, oh, yeah.

No one, you know what I mean? Like as a kid, I listened to hip hop because I was little and I didn't have anyone protecting me. So it made me feel safe. So I felt a real bond with with rappers. So I always was friends coming up in music. Like our band, we always found kindred spirits with hip hop artists. And they didn't know it, but like that raised me like the hustle mentality of like anything's possible, I'm going to work hard. The rawness of it. Yeah. Especially back then, like hip hop was, it was different.

And no one can mess with me. And that was like as a kid, I always felt like in danger all the time. You know, like anybody could, you know, could hurt you. But then as I got older and I became a dad and I look at my kids and I'm like, I don't want you to be tough. I want you to be smart, you know? I want you to find a quicker route, you know, to the end, you know, result. and a safer route, right?

So because I also, I think sometimes artists don't get to mourn for the loss that they suffered to become the artist they are and to share this, like, art with people. You know they had to suffer. Facts. And I think that that's a part of their healing process too sometimes. And that's why I was like, try not to like, I try not to judge people of music when I listen to it. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

and the payoff is the therapy you get from your music, you know what I'm saying? I feel like in a lot of ways, personally. And there are a lot of people that are inspired by music and music should be inspirational and it should be like a template of that time of your life. Like I should be able to listen to a project and maybe feel where you were in your life at that time.

And that's what you can always be there with them. Yeah, it's like you're there. And I think that's healing for an artist. I've made songs like that. some of them will never come out, you know. But I can't say that a lot of my music has just been the fact that I have a good voice.

Yeah, you have a great voice. Some of it, thank you. I appreciate you. Some of it, though, is like... You were giving a gift. Yeah, he was like, I'm going to give you a really... He was working on my vocal cords why they was taking me out in the womb. But do you feel like sometimes, like God,

life, the universe, whatever anyone out there wants their understanding of it, do you feel like they're like, I'm going to give you this superpower, right? Your voice is like a superpower. Because no one can just get up. Not many people can just get up and sing. So God gives you this superpower, and then he drops you somewhere and goes,

okay, now you're going to have all these other challenges to work through. And if you can get through the maze and find your way, you're going to get to have this incredible life. And whatever it was in you that drove you to keep trying, because there was certainly times in your life, I'm sure, that stopped you, stopped you, stopped you, and you keep working through. I don't ever stop creating, though. Right, but you kept going forward.

Yeah, thanks. And a lot of people give up. That's the difference between you and the other, maybe there were nine other guys, right? Right. That could sing like you, but they all gave up. And then you get to the next level and there's 10 other guys, right? Right. And you keep going and they give up.

And then you get to the next level and there's five guys and you keep going and they give up. And I always think about that because it's almost like becoming like an astronaut, right? There's thousands of guys in the Air Force that are trying to be an astronaut. or not, but the tests and the challenges are so hard, the training's so hard. I thought you were going to use the other analogy of the rocket itself has to drop off certain things, the higher it goes up. No, but that's a good analogy too. But to me, it's like the idea of the superhero that discovers he has the superpower

and then the movie gets good because then he learns how to use it and then he becomes a superhero, right? That's the story of like the hero story of our lives. And I say these things because there's people listening out there and we don't even know them. And they're going through something really hard, whether it's personal or maybe it's their challenge of their building their business or their dream. And everyone's like, how did you do it? Right.

And you're like, I don't know how I did it. I just kept trying. I just kept going. Just kept going. There's so many ways to answer this, like to respond to that beautiful statement you just made. one of the things that stood out to me was when you say superhero every superhero the origin it's always a dark origin yeah it's crazy a lot of them are orphans yeah right right or adopted it which is crazy but there's so many different ways to look at a superhero story

I was in a studio with Metro one time we was just talking and you know he put out the album's villains I love Metro it's my guy man another Virgo brother oh he's a Virgo yeah he's so cool You're fire, man. I don't know him personally. I just love his whole. He's a great person, bro. Yeah. And we were talking about heroes and villains, right?

And he says something. And I was like, yeah, that's so true. So pick any superhero you want. He's fighting a villain, right? And it's just like, old lady or somebody's sitting in her apartment. And like, she knows nothing about who's the hero or who is the villain. And he's getting his ass beat. The hero is getting his ass beat at that point in time of his life.

And so he gets, he like goes through this lady's apartment and ruins everything. The ashes from her son just falls on the ground. Just ruins it and then he's gone. He don't know this lady. He could have ruined a whole entire life trying to save the city. Yep. You know, and I feel like sometimes doing this journey that we have, like we have moments where something that we do may affect other people and we're doing it because in that moment, maybe we need to worry about ourselves. Collateral damage.

damage or we say no to something that we usually say yes to. And being hyper aware, because that's what we have to be is like you have to like deal with that. You know, and sometimes for me, it feels like failure because I can't give somebody that energy or I can't do say, well, I can't even give myself that energy at that point in time. So in my own life, it's like, what's what, which part of life is the villain? Which part is the soup? Like, who am I today? Like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's just, it's really interesting. And I feel like sometimes you don't have to speak about something that your actions and your energy can speak for you

and that's what I think I've learned most about the journey itself is like you have to hold the truth before you're able to speak it you have to be the truth before you're able to express it so if you're able to like hold that whatever that is whatever you're feeling

you're able to hold that and cultivate it into a balance bro because you can't have one side be like this one is cultivating to balance and if you're able to do that that's what i think the real the real test is is like you go through things and you have your struggles and you overcome that hurdle and you're like how did i look back like okay i made it through take from what you learn from that other things you you balance you make this

gumbo that's only yours it's it only got your recipe in it it's like your special recipe that's great and you take that in your relationships and you share that with your kids and you're able to like that's valuable it's the truth it's the truth that you learned it's the truth that you learned it's the you learned. It's like I always say to my kids and they get it's funny because they shake their head. But I always say like, I'm going to try to tell you but life will teach you

one way or the other life's going to teach you. Bro, it's the hardest thing to watch sometimes. Right, because you'll see a friend or you'll see you and be like, look, I'm telling you from my experience and I've experienced a bunch of shit and there's some stuff I don't know, but I do know this and then you'll share an experience you've had or a truth that you know.

Facts. But some people just got to learn for themselves. Yo, it's the craziest thing, like, about life, bro. It actually excites me when I see, I know this sounds great. It actually excites me when I see people go through things sometimes because I'm like, I know they're going to get through it. And on the other side. But I'm like, you're really blessed because you're going through this.

Like, I've said that to people before. It's a gift. And they're like, for the fuck are you talking about it. I'm just like, trust me. Yeah, you'll get through it. And on the other side, you're. Watch. Yeah, you're.

Because I know it. Because I, there's been. times of my life where I felt like I was dying. Right. Energetically. Yep. And I did die energetically, right? I was being reborn.

Yeah. And, but in a moment it doesn't feel like that. At a moment, it feels very lonely and painful. And like all the walls are closing in on you with spikes in them. When you give in to trying to control it, you just allow it to happen. and you take it day by day, minute, by minute. Slowly, but surely, if you truly believe and you're able to have a little bit of hope in yourself,

the light going to come through at the last moment, you're going to be like, I'm going to be like, Nutrition Nine, my baby, I'm going to be like, and puttas abjureds, new potion 9 of Sebastian Professional, the secret professional

of who don't see in tendencies, but of who they're creating. Convirted your passion in a business with Shopify, and bathe records of ventas with the form of pay with a better conversion of the world. Has you heard it.

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at month in Shopify dotes bar records What the fuck, bro Yeah And you like

fucking light is shining still, you know what I'm saying? And so it's And you gain a new most of the time you gain a new muscle

you gain a new a new skill You gain a new thing that you didn't have But you had to go Through that to get it And that is

like why I get more and more comfortable in new, you know, new challenges with each age. The crazy thing to me about you, though, is you're 37, which is like, you're just entering your prime.

I've been, I'm seven years ahead of you, right? So I have, I have, think about this, in seven years, you're going to have a bunch of insights you didn't have.

Facts. 37 is such a young. I'm excited, bro. I wake up more excited. It's young to be this grown. Yeah. And,

to me it's like 35 is when you enter what I think 35 to 55 65 65 is like prime we're killers now it's crazy because we know what we're doing now and it's like you can enjoy it more yeah you can enjoy the hard shit more you even you enjoy just the whole process more because you know that you have to and you know that it takes the process in order to achieve it you know so it's like and you hear a 27 year old talking you're like Ah, you're going to learn. But yeah. 10 years, you're going to learn.

I always try to tell people, people I love and people around me, like, remember that you're creating literally at every moment. With every breath, with every thought is a creation. It's like the same things that you desire right now, you probably won't desire in two years. It's true. You probably won't even care about it. So it's so important for you to understand why you desire something, where it's coming from, what is influencing it? Yeah, what's the need? What's the need for it?

If you had to detach from things in your life right now, how would you feel? If you had to detach to get that what you desire truly, but you had to give up this, this, this, this, and that could you do it? And why do you desire that? But could you do that? I'm curious. Like, you know, it's like, those are the types of things that I ask myself all the time. How do you deal with relationships? Because you have, because I always wonder what it's hard, I always wonder what it would be like to have like all these, like there's a certain energy.

Like your music is definitely like girls. I'm a R-B singer, bro. Yeah. Let's just start there. Yeah, exactly. That's my question is how do you deal with having a relationship and then having to go to work? and your your work is about captivating people's imaginations and inspiring certain things and creating an energy right to your shows and all that so you're you're around this certain

kind of energy all the time and then you have to come home and either shut it off or if you're with one person like let's say you just go on a date or you're dating someone you have to deal with their emotion around it because you're going to have to go back to work and let's say I worked in a meat packing plant but I'm dating a vegan right right that's a fire analogy right and and and and she she is not going to like that I'm in this meat packing plant all day serving up the the meat for the people I was going to say something I can't say it but so so my so I wonder how you balance and how you compartmentalize going to work and doing this thing that you're very good at yeah and certainly I've seen your shows

and seeing, you know, there's an energy around you. Like, girls get, it's like something happens, you know. And it's a good thing. It's a great thing. We need that in the world. And I always wonder how the great singers and different people that captured that that one emotion from people that was predominantly around, you know, romance and love and all these kinds of emotions that are all wrapped up in the heart.

How do they turn that off when they go home? and deal with either it's one person or how do you do that the short answer is at this point the short and I'll give you both answers the short answer is you get to a point in your life where you just respect your space and your energy towards to a level of like you just not willing to share it with just anybody right period right and that doesn't mean like you know you got to get married or you got to know it just means that you're really picky about who you're allowing your space it's almost like you're on a mission yeah you have to find a counterpart you have to right because it's like you understand how energetically taxing your life is right especially around that you know what I'm saying

not to say that you don't like the energy but when it comes to your decisions that you make whoever you're with when you're at that point will naturally feel safe right because of you know if If she's your partner and you're that thinking like that, she probably is on that level too. So she can tell like, okay, this is where he is. The long story is it takes a while to get there. Right. You got to learn how to do that. Like, you know what I'm saying?

You got to get to that point. And I feel like there's different quarters of my life where it was a lot harder for me than others when it came to relationships. Yeah. I've been bad in relationships my whole life. Contrary to the songs. Right. I see. Sir.

I'm not surprised. You know what I'm saying? And I think it has a lot to do with my relationship with my mother and losing my grandmother at such a young age. I think if my grandmother was in my life, I would have had a different relationship pattern, different relationship patterns with women. Because I never wanted to disappoint her ever in life. Not that she hasn't watched everything. It's big to know that. It's big to know that, though.

Yeah. And so I feel like in my 20s, I was dealing with a lot of, it's not an excuse. But I was dealing with a lot of trauma. I was in relationships and I was. You were trying. Trying. And I was like, but I didn't know how to deal with myself yet. Right.

You had a lot of growing to do. A lot of growing to do. I didn't know how to do it myself. And I heard a lot of most of the women that I ever dated, I hurt literally. Well, you probably didn't know how to communicate and express and like be, there's hard to be honest. I was good at communicating and I was fun. and I was, everything was fun. It was always lit.

But I wasn't good at getting close. Opening up. Right. When it mattered on the deeper levels. Right. So I would express myself. Which you have to get to at some point. Like you go here, here, here.

And then, oh, it's time to open up. Because I would, I would always date girls that were deep women. And I would always date girls that were powerful in their own right. Right. But like when it came time to meet them on a level that would make them feel safe. Right. is where I would feel. Right.

Right. That's powerful, actually, that actually realized, dude. Yeah. And so, yeah, I felt myself, when I wasn't happy in my relationships, I found myself finding other vices outside of a relationship, you know. That's pretty normal, though. Yeah. You know, I think also when you're not.

I hate that it's normal. I know, me too, but I had to learn because I got lucky because I had a part, I ended up meeting a partner who had a lot of grace and who knew I needed to, to grow up. Yeah. And I think I got lucky. And that's why I kind of like believe in God because I look at my family and I go, oh, there has to be a God.

Because this was definitely not like my master plan. Right. And then I just kind of like stumbled my way through my 20s in the same fashion sort of. Yeah. And I think that like, and then I met someone and I was like that that had the patience and- I met a lot of incredible women in my life. I bet. I could have been married at least three, four times by now.

I bet. I was just too scared. Yeah, I assume that. So many great women, man. Yeah. Like, some are married, some are, like, have families already. I'm just like, wow, like. Yeah, it's amazing what I...

But I'm dating right now. That's good. I can't leave this conversation without, I'm dating right now, and I'm happy, like... That's great. You know what I'm saying? Like, somebody I've known for a long time. That's cool. She's showing to me, but she's incredible and she's a great person.

Yeah, it's amazing what a really great, like, counterpart does. for your life. So true, bro. Because they hold you to it. They hold you to account. They hold you accountable for. You hold yourself accountable different when you love someone and you see them and they see you and but I also think back to the point. It's like you have to get to a point where you understand how to recognize that. Yeah. You could you could say you recognize something. You could say but your actions have to line up with that in order for you to really reap the benefits of your own growth. Yep. And I feel like I'm at a point in my life where I don't have the space to live any inorganic shit or any synthetic.

Like I want to create from a real space. I'm trying to attract the people that's supposed to be on this journey with me right now. And it starts at home with the person I'm spending my time with. And I'm sharing myself with on every level. So if that's fake, then what the fuck do I expect from life? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It matters.

And women are powerful. They're powerful. To me, they're the most powerful. They give life. And when you think about that, when I look at my kids, it gives me this like reverence for my wife and what she's done. I can only imagine. You know, because also like the game that we play at a high level, you know what it takes to win at a high level. It takes everything you have.

And finding the balance is the hard part, right, so that you can have a real relationship with people and your family. and still be out there doing it. I can't even, I don't even know how to speak on this level because I don't have, I don't know what it's like to have kids. It's like, I can only imagine like, it's like. I don't even know what it is. That's the thing is like the whole time you're doing it, you still feel like a kid.

So you're just trying to hold on and go through it. And so, but I feel like. But it started with finding the right part. You start to value that more than like the vices and the things and, you know, whatever it is out there. And then also, there are some things I give up to have it. So I can't tour as much, right? Because it takes me away from what I actually want to be around, which is in this, like, this family.

But that's the blessing, though, to be able to have that choice. And be able to choose. It is a blessing. I'm excited to watch you the next 10 years. Thank you, man. I'm excited about this next journey, too. And I feel like where I'm at right now is unique to what my purpose in the world is. You know, as a voice, both on stage and offstage, there's a lot of things that I have to share with the world that only I can do it in the way that I do it.

Period. Not just for the collective, but also for my peers, also for where I come from, being a voice of somebody who made it out of a very distorted reality. and kind of moving through this lab by myself in a sense. You know what I'm saying? None of my family members work in the music industry. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Nobody, you know, so it's like I've created my own path, if you will, with God, of course.

And everything means at this point. And it's super energizing to think about the possibilities. As things change around us, not happening. you know imagine you're moving you're this like magnetic ball moving through all of this chaos and then the things that attach to you're supposed to supposed to be and you're affected the way you're supposed to but like knowing that now you have your protection and you know how to protect yourself and you know how to move through it and stay clean and stay like out the way it's like there's a sense of like to me I think that's part of being a man yeah your battle tested

you know what I'm saying it's like knowing how to move through life stay grounded yep and your truth like that's a me is what being a leader being a man is right and so that's that's for me that's like the exciting part of where I'm at in life right now everything else I move from that space with everything else I also think that like a lot of guys didn't hear that you know I think that we're in this new place where we talk and we didn't used to really yeah facts and so I think it's important so I think we're evolving but but I but I think that like when I think about it and just like an analyst right and i always analyze things and i watch artists and when i look at you and i go okay you're young enough to do whatever you want but you're old enough to know how to know

who you are yeah and how many other guys are there like you there they're just there they're just aren't when you when you think about the class of artists you're in you're just there's just not a lot. So there's only so so it's unique right. It's a unique place to be in where you have this experience you were so young when you started. Yeah. Sometimes when we get started young and I was young but not as young as you. I was a few years older than you. When I got on for real in a way where the world knew who I was, I was probably 22. You were a teenager. So think about that. I do. You survived that. Most people don't. A lot of people don't. We don't even remember. the people who don't, right?

And then we had to watch some of them painfully not. And then we've seen people overcome and survive. But there's only a few guys that can stand where you're standing and give the advice to the younger artists, impress the older artists and get respect, get the respect that you have. And then the next 10 years, I look at it and I go, oh, he's going to do his greatest work. It's true. And then wear it the way you'd hope someone would wear it, right?

And be that inspiration. But like that to me is like it's such a cool, it's such a cool story. And I'm excited to see like the next 10 years unfold. I'm excited about the next five. Yeah. You know, but right now I think, you know, there's other things that I'm doing outside of music that make me happy creating and being a visionary

and just using my relationships and that's the beautiful part about being an artist right and being in this unique click of like urban music and like the times and my peers and all this but like outside of that just being a person who likes to think outside of the box and do cool things

giving more reverence to that part of myself and using those relationships and making it a four-circle moment. That's the exciting thing about it. It's like we live in a world now where it's like, it's cool to involve your other creative sides and your art. And it's like it gives more depth to who you are as a person. And that's what I think I'm most excited about people experiencing it and seeing.

But I'm one of those people who don't like to talk about it until it's like actualizing. Yeah, yeah. I'm just like, you know what I'm saying? I was planning on doing this show for two years and then I finally did it. And it's nice to be doing it. it but I was dreaming of doing it for two or three years. Yeah.

So I think the world needs inspiration again. And I think I think that's what we're here to do. You know what I'm saying? If you are a person that's something that's chasing you, there's a vision that's chasing you right now is the time. I'm like really acting. I know the world is in a crazy place, but like, you know, you got to continue to evolve and try things and just do it.

You know what I'm saying? Wake up and move towards it in whatever capacity you can with where you are right now. There's always a step you can take. you know i think that sometimes we think like oh until this is done until this is done i can't make this step like no there's always preparation before the reward so and there's no time like the present no time like it bro no time like but yeah thanks you're coming no problem well thanks for a hario i hope you enjoyed today's episode of artist friendly if you really liked it you can follow like subscribe to the show anywhere you listen to podcasts spotify

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