Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Matt Pryor of The Get Up Kids

Episode Date: April 17, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Matt Pryor of The Get Up Kids. The Get Up Kids and the New Amsterdams vocalist recently shared a memoir called Red Letter Days, which features backstage stories culled from journal entries between 1990-2000 and rare photographs from the era. Across more than 200 pages, the story follows Pryor coming of age, pursuing dreams of becoming a bonafide musician, and his early days on the road with the Get Up Kids during emo’s second wave. Plus, the Get Up Kids will play Four Chord Music Festival and Best Friends Forever later this year. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠Spotify.⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On today's episode, I'm talking with guitarist and singer of the Get Up Kids, Matt Pryor. His new book, Red Letter Days, is out now. Let's go. I don't want to pivot. That's my kind. I don't want to have bad times. I don't want to have bad. You have a podcast, too, don't you? I have done them. I don't have one currently. Okay. But I thought you did for some reason. I did. I've done a couple, actually. But booking people, I don't have this whole. organization behind me. Right. And I got really sick of like just calling my friends and being like, hey, will you come talk to me for an hour?

Yeah, it's a lot of work trying to organize. And then it's not just, yes, I'll come. It's what day, what time. And then, you know, having the organizing all the recording. So for me, I'm not literate with recording at all. Okay. I'm extremely dyslexic, especially around using computers and stuff. That's, yeah.

So, but actually dyslexic. So there's lots of things that that keeps me from doing. But I think it also is a strength in a lot of other ways. So I'm lucky because I have. Or you to think differently than other people. Yeah, you've got to figure out how to get around the problem. It's a necessity is the mother of, you know, it's like you got to have one hand tied behind your back in order to be creative of how to

use the other hand. Exactly. That's exactly how it feels. So it makes me very clever in a lot of ways. and sometimes just slow in other ways. Which is a good segue into your book, because I've always actually wanted to write a book. It's not something I ever see myself doing because I can't really write. You could work with, I could work with you on it.

Yeah? Yeah, I could be your ghostwriter. Ghostwriter. All right. Actually, I'd probably want to be a co-writer on it. I don't think I'd want to be a ghost writer. This is going to pay me a lot. I actually think that a co-writer makes more sense because I, I,

At this stage, I love that the idea that ghostwriters can exist because it isn't a living for some people. Right. But as an artist, I wouldn't want to take credit. It feels weird, right? Yeah, I wouldn't want to take credit for someone else's. It's also like, I'm not entirely sure what the parameters. I've never worked with the ghost writers. I don't really know what the parameters are as far as like how much input they actually have.

If you had a co-writer, I could imagine you just like kind of dictate stories to somebody and then they sort of translate it. Or yeah, you create the idea. they write, you come back, you work on it. They would probably be a collaborative thing. Ghost writing is interesting. I think it's like a spectrum, right? So I think there are people who, yeah. Yeah, so there's different shades of ghost writing.

So there's the extreme version of someone who's just like, this is what I, I think the ghost writer interviews them and then goes back and like writes the thing. Because I had a friend who ghost wrote something. And they were like, it's kind of like that. I can't say. I know, of course. I wish I could because I feel like, but that's the deal. Like you're ghost writing and that's the deal.

So you're not going to get the credit. So you have to make peace with that. I think about that with those people. You've heard, I don't know if you have ever had a deal with this, but like you hear stories about like a band in the studio and then like late at night some shredder comes in to like lay down a different guitar track that they just don't tell the band about. And then I'm just like, how does the guitar player then come back the next day and

listen to those mixes and go like, man, I've really killed it. I don't even remember playing half this stuff. I think that I've heard those stories too. I think that, I don't know, I feel like it's like music literacy maybe, like being able to hear something and go, I didn't play that. Well, yeah, I think it's also just the playing into the arrogance of musicians. So just going like, oh, yeah, I really did that. I really kicked ass on that, man. I really nailed that. They do that a lot with drummers. Yes. I'm aware of grid mode and how to do that kind of stuff. When we did our last, the last Get Up Kids record, we were recording in this house in Connecticut and Peter and the producer would, he wouldn't let us into the room when he was tweaking, like when he was doing like rough mixes.

It wasn't like final mixes. And I think it's because like he was doing a little bit of polish on the vocals, like he was adding a little bit of audit, like nothing like crazy, but like a little bit of, a little bit of, Christmas, as we call it. Yeah. And I think he didn't want to have me in there to be like, hey, what are you doing? What are you doing? Like, don't touch my vocals or whatever. Because I'm like, I don't care.

Just make me sound cool, you know? Little sugar in the sauce. Yes. That's like when my wife cooks, I'll sneak salt and sugar into all her food because she doesn't use enough sugar for salt. My in-laws used to live with us. And my mother-in-law salts her food before she tastes it. Yeah, me too.

So it drives me crazy because I'm the one who cooks. So I'd be like, I'd be like, I made this dish for everybody and like at least taste it first. So you're Nicole in this scenario. Yeah. I, Nicole gets so mad because she'll put. Because you pre-salt your food? She makes the food. Yeah, it's infuriating.

Yeah, she's like, it's really insulting. It's really insulting. Insulting. Insulting. Yeah. But she'll, she'll make the food, put it on the plate, and we'll all sit down. we're all sitting at the table and the kids laugh every time because she doesn't have salt at the table for a reason. Yeah.

Because she knows that I'm just going to dump salt on my food. It drives me crazy. I know. It's weird, right? Everybody's got their own thing, but just as the person cooking the food, it makes me nuts. Hear me out. If I taste the food and then I put salt on it, I feel like you'll be more insulted than if I just put salt on it and you know that's what I do. I mean, you use whatever logic gets you through the day.

But that's not how I would feel about the matter. Yeah, whatever helps you sleep at night. That's cool. I would rather you taste it and be like, I think it needs a little bit of salt, and I won't be offended by that. But that's me, I don't know. Are you a good cook? I think so.

What do you like to cook? I don't know just anything anymore. There's a chapter in the book about when I first started getting into cooking was kind of around the time that like the band was doing really well. And it was before I had kids. And so I had money. Yeah. And I'd be like, I bought an ostrich egg.

I'm like, I don't know what to do with it. You know, like, but it was like, it was a $60 ostrich egg. And I'm like, I don't even know how to open this freaking, can I swear on this? Yeah, you can. I don't even know how to open this fucking thing. But like, you know, it was just sort of, I just wanted to experiment with it. So now I just, it's more utilitarian, like I have to cook for the family and stuff. I have to figure out what each of the five of us is willing to eat.

So you have three kids? Three kids. They're old. How old are they? 17, 19, and 21. Wow. Yeah. So they're just at home.

home. Like my wife and I came out to California and we're just like, all right, can you guys drop us off at the airport and this easy, peasy. Amazing. Yeah, it's nice. So for Red Letter Days, did you, so you did write all of this. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought it was really, I read through some of the different stories. Yeah. I love to how for anyone reading, like for me, I struggled to read books from cover to cover. Yeah. But I jump around a lot. And this was a really good book for that. Oh, okay, good. So I read some little different stories.

I thought it was great how it took me right back. I could feel the venues. I could feel the like. You can smell the stale beard. Well, like when you, you, you were talking about American musical. Yeah, yeah, great American in San Francisco. Yeah, yeah. You described it and I could see it because I've been there.

So it was cool to be like, it's cool. It was cool to like. had that feeling again at walking in the venue on a day on tour. That one's a cool one too because it's a gorgeous venue. It is gorgeous. That's in kind of a weird, rough neighborhood. Really weird neighborhood. You know, and it's just sort of like, how did this place end up?

You know, like it looks like it should be like a cathedral kind of. Like, it's a really cool spot. Or you talked about the streaming platform that, that sponsored your tour? Yeah, Napster sponsor. I mean, I didn't say NASP. Napster in the book. Yeah, you didn't say Napster, which I assumed it was Napster. No, they sponsored. So like, you know, the early days of Napster when everybody was like freaking out about it,

Vagrant actually saw it as like a kind of like an opportunity, or at least Hardy, our management did. And so they, they got sponsorships for our tour and face-to-face tour. NAPSter sponsored those two tours. And when we played at Great American in San Francisco, there were like 40 people in matching Napster T-shirts. Like it was like a corporate retreat. treat, like hanging out backstage. And I was just like, I don't, what, I don't, why are these people here? And they're like, well, they've sponsored the tour. And I'm like, I don't care.

Like, please make them leave. They're lame. But it, you know, it was, it was, it was, it was, uh, they probably had a great time. I had a good time. Yeah. That's all that really matters. It was just funny. Why do you think?

So for me, I really feel like the get up kids are like the, one of the quintessential, you know, emo bands. when you think of a genre that at first we would maybe even reject. But I never did. I always loved like that the idea of it. And now I think it's being appreciated in a different. To me, it's being appreciated more like a real chapter of music. Like it should be, I think, it always should be.

But it feels like now it's actually taken root in music fans' idea of a genre of music that I really feel like, didn't get the credit it deserved at the time, but that's the case with all music. Right. But now it does feel like it's a really important part of music that other people are now trying to create their own version of. And it's hard to say that if they're doing it or not, because when I look back and I see the original articles, you guys, some other bands, it's hard to recreate that time. I mean, it was such a time.

But you guys were right there. Well, there's no way to recreate the time, I don't think. Just like there's no, there's no way to like recreate an underground, which is what it, what it was. Yeah. You know, I've thought about this a lot. It comes up a lot because, first of all, you get into the whole thing about like, why are you called emo in the first place? When you're just like, I thought we were a punk rock band. You know what I mean?

It's just like, why do we have to have this like subcategory of, you know, and it, for us anyway, it was because it was a derogatory term. it was sort of like fucking emo kids you know what I mean like that's what like hardcore kids would say and pop punk kids would say and it was just sort of like kind of derogatory which is funny that now That's kind of how we felt about pop punk I totally it's well even calling it

Pop Punk is kind of derogatory it's just sort of like there's punk and then it's like oh you're like like candy punk you know what I mean like it's sort of like that's oh it's pop punk it's not real punk it's like oh you're emo you're not real punk you're like

sensitive punk, you know, like, and it's funny that now, you know, it comes around again, that it's almost like a derogatory thing of like the kind of like early, you know, like hair in your face and eyeliner kind of like, you know, emo, like a kid who's like a real like just bummer. Yeah, yeah. It's a meme. It's a meme. Yeah, it's a meme. And we were just an indie rock band and we met other people who were touring and it was just sort of like, it didn't feel like anything in particular and then all of a sudden everybody was just calling it Emo and it was like we just thought we were just an indie rock band

you know punk rock adjacent indie rock band and you're definitely an indie rock band I think now I see Emo as a term of endearment I think most people do I still have a hard time hang like I have that baggage I can only imagine because you're actually in what I would say a class

of a small class of bands that helped create something they call it waves now they say that like Yeah. We're second, second wave, I think is what it is. Yeah. It's like sunny day and jawbreaker

and like writes of spring is first wave and then it's like us, the promise ring. You guys weren't that far behind them though. It's about five years because we're like, we realize this because we're going to go,

uh, I put waves in 10 years. Well, I mean decades. I think generations are, or not about 10 years or 20 years maybe. Something like that. But I think they're getting shorter.

You know what I mean? Like the way that like, like, you know, trends used to come in 20-year cycles. I think they come in maybe 10-year cycles or less now. But I don't know. I just waves, who knows. It's just, it's sort of like to distinguish between what we were doing and like, I guess, my cam, you know, like, or something like that, you know, like.

So this is why I love these conversations. Because if we didn't care about music, we wouldn't have them. And so I never mind people arguing what we were or what they thought we were. Oh, I don't give a shit. I feel like those music. conversations disappeared for a good long period of time. And now it feels like they've come back and people are talking about things and arguing about things. And I like it because I think it's good for music and culture. But from my perspective, when I think of your band, I put you in the

first wave with a bunch of bands. Like the bands you named, I still feel like it was close enough that I was discovering their records, probably a year or two after the fact. And shortly after that, I'd gotten into music and I heard your record and I heard that record and that record. So I always kind of sum up that first wave of like a decade of a different style of music coming out. I see that. I think there was a couple things that you said. One is that like I don't think people would debate things if they didn't care about them. And so that is like, you know, that in itself is just kind of a testament to everything.

It's just sort of like that you actually give enough of a shit of a shit about it to like, you know, get angry about or get upset about something. And then I think that the way that we interpreted, the wave thing had more to do with, like, our reverence for the bands that came before us. Because, like, Sunday Day was a huge influence. Jawbreakers is a huge influence. You know, Fagasy is a massive influence. And it's just like, so we would never be like, oh, there are contemporaries. Right. You know what I mean?

I get it. Yeah. Even though I think Enix the same age as me. You know what I mean? And so just kind of like, but, and like, we're playing this, we're playing at Southby. We're playing with Sunny Day. and they're doing 30 years of diary, and our something at home about came out 25 years ago.

So it's like only a five year difference between those, like timeline wise between those two records. But it's like, I mean, also when you're that young, like time is so much different. You know what I mean? Everything seems longer, but then you turn around and now five years is nothing. Yes, absolutely.

We maybe put out a record every five years if we're lucky. Right, exactly. But at the time, it was just sort of like, your world could change in six months. Yeah. You know what I mean? Even just like the, my band, like, I didn't even think about this until the other day.

Like, we started in the fall of 1995, and our first record came out in the fall of 1997. That's crazy. It's just two years. And it's just like, but we did so much. Like it was like, also just at that time when it's like, your band is your everything. You know, it's like, everything goes into it.

Everything goes into it. So it's just like all of that time is sort of magnified. And yeah, it's just, it's not like that when you get older. No, yeah. Especially when you have kids and you're just like, oh my God, my kids are old. I mean, full grown. My kids are 14 and 16. And so I'm only a few years behind you.

And I'm already experiencing the teen thing where like we have more time now. Like it just changed 14, 15. It changed. There's an interesting thing that I struggled with actually around that age time and a little bit older where you know that thing about when you go from not having kids to having a baby that like your whole life changes. And all of a sudden you're like, I'm so needed to do this other thing and take care of this other person. No one talks about that when they get old enough to take care of themselves,

you go through that change again in reverse where you kind of have to like retrain your brain to be like, oh, I can just be me now. Yeah. I don't have to be dad all the time whenever I'm around them. And so it's kind of like you have to like, you know, re-evaluate who you are and what you're doing. And it's like, it's not quite there at 16, but it's almost. You're getting into that kind of like, they're sort of like testing you probably. They're probably like don't want to hang out with you as much.

They want to hang out with their friends. Do they like your band or do they think you're lame? Are they like into something like totally different? They're into hip hop. Okay. Well, they appreciate my band. Okay. They really do.

They respect it. Yeah. They're by no means do they like shit on it. They think it's cool. They've checked it out and they're like, it's cool that you did that. Yeah, yeah. And that I did that. And I'm like, well, I still do it sometimes?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you guys want to come? And they're like, eh, like. Right. But we did a show in October in Vegas. And it was good. It was a big. It was like we were one of the last bands of the night.

And we brought. Oh, was it the when we were young. Yeah. And it was really great. It was really fun. Hadn't played four years. Okay. So it was really fun.

And the band was all together. So were you exhausted by the end of it? The second. So the first night we played, I was charged up, and it was like a great crowd. It was the perfect crowd, right? Yeah, yeah. And like peak of the night, they gave us like a great spot. It was awesome.

And I was like, we should go on tour. Second night, I was like, whoa, if we did this every night, I would be, I would be fucked. Yeah. But my son came and we brought out Little Wayne. We brought out Weezy to come and do a couple songs with us. That was his favorite. That was, well, there you go. That was like his favorite part.

That's what it is for me too. They're more impressed by the people I know. Yes. And it'll be like, can you get us paramour? Can you get us into Paramore? Yes. I probably know somebody who works for Paramore. I'm sure like I can get you.

Yeah. I am the plug for tickets. Yeah, yeah. Same. Big time. Any show I can usually work. Except that's always something random. Like, do you know anybody that can get his tickets to Thundercat?

And I'm like, I don't know anybody who works with Thundercat. I'm sorry. Let's see. They want to go. Rich Amiri's going on. tour, they want to go to that. I've been told Rolling Loud, I'm now responsible for figuring out Rolling Loud, although I'm still questionable. I'm like, do what I'm going with you guys to Rolling Loud. I don't know, having, I have no clue what that. It's a big festival.

Is that the, it's like a big like hip hop festival. Oh, okay. Hitop centric. And I have no idea with the backstages. I've never been there. So I'm sure it's fine. I'm like, I'll take you, but we have to go with me. And then. Because the crowd seems kind of nuts, but it's fine. I mean, they went to Travis Scott. They had a great time. And we left him alone.

But me and my wife went on like a date and like went and hung out and watch the show from like seats. And they were like down in the craziness. Is he the one that has like kind of floating stage? He had like, yeah. It's like some. It's pretty incredible. It looked pretty neat. It was cool.

So anyways. They definitely love. Yeah. It was super neat. Wow. What a nice young man. Yeah. He is, he is.

He seems like a nice young man. Very creative and very industrious. He has clothing line is really, really well, well done. Like my kids like all this stuff. So I, but they don't want to be anywhere near me because I also analyze everything. Well, that's, I'm a bummer to go to shows with. I'm like, I wonder how much this production costs. And I start counting everything.

And I start trying to estimate how much the show costs to put on. We were on tour this summer and we played, we were on tour with the All American Rejects and we played it. this like this theater that was next to Fenway Park in Boston and uh Morgan Wallen was playing Morgan Wallen Morgan Wallin was playing three nights at Fenway yeah and so we're just like watching the parade of people going and then we like I'm like I'm gonna go check this out so I'd go in you know can get in go in and watch it and I just all I did was like looked at them and I just went ugh and I left it was just like the most all I could do is critique like what the the band and like how they were all like dressed blue collar but they were obviously like

Nashville session people and stuff and it was just but like I'll go if I go to like a punk show and just feel like I'm like looking at their gear I'm like looking at like you know like critiquing their stage presence and anyone that impressed you uh I haven't been to a show in a long time actually kind of for that reason what was the last great are you hard to impress hard to impress not musically, no. Okay. Live, maybe. I don't know.

I haven't really thought about it. You know, critical listening is a real thing. Like, to be able to hear things that most people can't hear is a real skill, and they actually teach it. Right. And I think that there are some people who are inclined to hear things. Yeah. I mean, I think I definitely, I think just from making records for 25 years, it's like you get so,

used to like listening to like the same 10 seconds of a song over and over and over again to be like or like if you're trying to do a vocal you know it's just like uh ah uh you know like you're just like kind of like little minutia of things that like i hear edits a lot in songs i can hear like where like if it's a bad it's like a poorly mixed edit in like a pop song don't listen to our first record then well don't listen to ours either uh but like i hear those now yeah yeah Or like, it's interesting too. Like I was at somewhere and like an older Madonna song came on and I was just like, oh, this is kind of refreshing.

This is actually like a vocal take. Like this is not like. Full take. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it was a full take, but it was definitely like not treated the way that like modern pop vocals are treated. Right. And it wasn't like not in like a crazy like auto tune for effect kind of way.

Just like you can, you know, when you can like kind of hear the pitch correction a little bit. which I don't think most people can can really hear. And I don't know, maybe I'm talking out of my ass. But no, I do listen to things pretty critically in that regard, I guess. Which was beneficial in writing because you, one of the things I really didn't enjoy about this process was editing this book. I bet. Because it was like, you know, when you're editing a song, it takes three minutes to listen back to it. And when you're editing a book, it takes like three weeks.

to do it, you know, it's just so, it's kind of tedious. It's a huge accomplishment to put a book out. Oh, thank you very much. I'm impressed. I'm always impressed when people take on, like, this is no, by the way, this is a, this is a, it's a substantial project to take on. And I'm impressed, man. I'm really happy for you that you got to do this.

Oh, thank you very much. I appreciate that. I feel like you know my brother's wife, Amy. Yes, I'm not Amy for forever. And I met your brother once. he was working at the 930 club. Yeah, back in the day. I got to, I was like,

I was having one of those, like, we had just gotten off stage and I just went into the alley to like, smolder, you know, like, it was sort of like it was cold out and I was like steaming. And I got to talk into your brother and, you know, I kind of learned who he was

and I was like, oh, hey, you know. And then, yeah, but I've known, Amy did some of our first shows in Florida back in the day. I've known her for forever. I wrote the forward, one of the forwards in her photo book. Yeah.

Amy's an OG. Yeah, emo. She's such an OG email. She's one of the people I sent this book to when I first wrote it because I was just like, she'll tell me if it sucks. She will too. Yeah. No, I knew she would.

In a nice way. Yeah. Yeah. She's, uh, she is like the family music historian. That makes sense. It really feels like that. Yeah. She's a real historian of, uh, rock music.

She's a fan of music. You know what I mean? Like you can, you, you meet less people in the record industry than you would think. who are that intense about being fans of music. And those are the people that I'm still friends with now. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like not the people who are like think you're the next big thing or are there for them, you know.

I feel like Amy was, it is, because she still is in and around the music industry, but obviously she had a label. And I feel like she was too pure-hearted and love the music industry. music for real. It was almost like she was too good for the business because the record industry is so tough. Yeah, it's, it doesn't, it'll, it'll chew you up and spit you out for sure. It doesn't care about you. No. Even if, even if you're the artist, it doesn't care about you. More if you're the artist. But part of the pain of being an artist for a living is, I think, coming to terms with the idea that the business you're in that you want to love you you want the

record business to love you i think we all come into it going i you got to make peace with the idea that it doesn't give a fuck about you no and when you make peace with that you can actually live and exist and and carry on well there was something that i think this is something my mother-in-law said to my sister-in-law when she got married that they're planning the wedding and she was like just remember no one's going to care about this as much as you do. Yeah. And I was like, that's totally true for your career. A career. Or just like, no, even the people who do care about it a lot, don't care about it as much as I do. And, you know, you have to kind of, you know, it makes me, I don't want to be jaded about it, you know,

but it's hard not to be sometimes. Yeah, we're all jaded. I think we're all jaded. I know, but I'm trying to be more at peace in life these days. I think it's like something like experience is jaded. And so there's scars we have and lines we have and there's a weatheredness to us that we have from experience. But I think that that can also inform our and temper our ability to see things for what they are sometimes. Totally. It makes your bullshit detector a lot more acute.

And we can still dream and we can still come up with, I want to write a book. I write a book, right? But you're not under the illusion that someone's going to. come with a wand and write the book for you well so when they when the book was getting edited when it was finally done and i was just like fine it's just it's done just please just take it away from me i don't want to look at it anymore and the guy who edited it had written an email and he was like it's a fine piece of literature and i was like we're not going for a fucking politzer dude like it's just like a punk rock book you know like at at best i could maybe aspire to be henry rollins you know like it just sort of like i

expect anything in the same way that like I didn't expect anything the first time we made a record it's just sort of like this is something I wanted to do and so I'm gonna do it and if you like it great and if you don't I don't care you know I'm glad you did it I'm glad I did it too I think there is some there I think there is something about the subculture art though when you say Henry Rollins I think I'm like yeah that that is a good example of like a world of but I also think that there's not enough art that curates in a real way a time for a generation of people that had this experience. Yeah, I think the problem with that, and maybe this is something that I thought maybe why I would have a different perspective is that I think a lot of music history is written by journalists and not by the people who... I mean, it's not a lot of it.

I think almost all of it is written by the people who weren't there and who are looking at it through this sort of, you know, romantic rock and roll sort of lens. And there are aspects of that that are true, but there are aspects of that that are just absolute bullshit. And it's kind of like, you know, I heard all the people who watched the bear on Hulu,

who worked in the restaurant industry, be like, okay, that was so real that it was triggering to me. Right, they got it right. Right. It's because it was written. It was written by people from that world. Right, exactly. I would love to be able to try and do a fraction of that.

I didn't even think about this line. It was like a throwaway line in the book, but someone brought it up in an interview where I talked about driving all night and then getting out of the van and your legs being wobbly. Because you've been driving for like three hours and you're just like, oh, I have to relearn how to walk

because my legs have kind of atrophied a little bit from just sitting like that. And everybody who's done a drive like that knows that feeling, you know, and knows the feeling of driving in complete blackness of a highway and then the garishness of the neon of a of a two pump mom and pop gas station in the middle of nowhere, you know, where, you know, you're going to drink that coffee, get that speed. Yeah, apparently. Get that yellow jacket.

Get those yellow jackets. So I just, I think that like, I don't know that you can, you can write about this particular time and these experiences unless you actually, not accurately anyway, unless you actually, like with all truth though, like you know, you're going to have a much different, I have a different perspective as an insider looking out

than as an outsider looking in, as would, as you do as well. Yeah. You know, like, so I, I just, I don't know, I just, I think it's different. That's what I was hoping, how this would be different from like,

other people writing about this time. But I think this is actually really important. I think for you anyway, from what I read in the book so far, you have a real specific voice. So it does feel, it feels like something, right?

As opposed to reading something and you can't hear the voice. For some reason, I can't explain it, but when I read things, I can hear, and not say I hear your voice, but I can hear.

It wouldn't surprise me if you knew like my podcasting work, if you did hear my voice. I think my speaking voice is different than my singing voice, but like, I can hear, a real person behind the words.

I can feel the experience when you say them. And maybe part of it is that I toured in a van and I toured in a lot of the venues and I kind of know the places. But I feel like you do a good job of painting the pictures with the words. But what I'll say is I think what the 90s and the early 2000s were to music will be remembered like we now look at the 70s or the late 60s and the 70s, when we watch documentaries about Woodstock or we watch documentaries about certain bands.

I feel like it takes time for people to want to look back and actually want to know what was that like and then they start to look for genuine voices. So what I'm saying is this book feels like the tip of the iceberg for someone who has some information that will be. I hope so. I feel like there's something here. When I read it, I was like, there's something here. And this is important.

And we're just at the beginning of people looking back at this time of music and trying to remember, wanting to know, all of the questions are going to continue to come. And so I think there's going to be more need for historical documentation and storytelling around that whole time. Yeah, I agree. I think that like it's especially given that it was. a it's kind of like when you talk and I don't want to sound like I'm comparing our scene like but like when you talk about like New York in the 70s and like CBGB's era about how like so I am

comparing it to that well I you don't have to but I am I just don't I just it's the Midwestern modesty in me yeah it's just kind of like there's a lot of humility like I think that we're as important as the Ramones or whatever but it's just sort of like that scene you talk about like Blondie being the first band to actually break out of it and get on the radio or whatever. It's just like, oh, right, this was just a scene that either existed in New York or you read about magazines. And now it's like this was a scene that just existed in vans and venues, not even venues necessarily, but like basements across the country for a long time that then, you know, became, you know,

influenced people who got popular and famous. And even, you know, when you look at it now, and you can probably draw a line to Boy Genius and Olivia Rodriguez and Taylor Swift. And like, you just sort of like, I think that all of those people would say that they would have some kind of an influence from the scene that both of us come from. You know what I mean? And even if you look at the, even if you look at our bands and you look on to a record collector or a music curator or whatever, you could put our bands apart in all these different

ways. But if you really look at the, so we started in 96, our first record came out really in 2000. We put out our own little indie thing. Okay. Yeah, we put out a little like EP on our own. Okay. In like 98, 97, 98. But it, I mean, we actually sold like 10,000 copies of it out of our out of our van. Good hustle. Yeah, it was. And it funded everything that we could do. But really, we made that first record in 99. It came out in 2000. And it was on a, major label and it when in it and it um started the you know the the the climb to the second record and and and all the other stuff we did but all that time when we were hustling trying to get gigs and like you're saying every which kind of gig basement or this we were interacting with and coming

across all these different bands that would all go on a lot of them to become other bands that we toured with or that we and we all were connected somehow yeah i think it has to do with like being part of an underground and then also i personally think at least for me anything it was a work ethic thing whereas like when i started i think i started noticing it around 2003 or so when there were all these like young bands who were getting like big record deals and some of them had really good work ethics and some of them didn't. Yeah. You know?

And it was kind of like, okay, anytime anybody who was just sort of like, I'm doing this because I want to be famous, I was kind of like, that's not really why I do it. But good for you. You know, like, but we're not the same. You know what I mean? Like, whereas like you guys like coming up, even though our bands sound different, it's just sort of like you come from the same, you know, subculture that we do. And so you have that same.

And, you know, your band's work ethic and your, you're, you're, you're, you're, just business acumen is like aspiring, inspiring, aspiring, inspiring. We try really, we, we've always tried really hard. Yeah. And I think we are, our idea of ourselves was always ahead of where we were maybe. Because musically, we started in 96 and we didn't have a lot of musical chops. So I think we were kind of catching up. You punk rock band.

You don't need to have musical chops. But we wanted to be more musical. and I think we were always trying. But I think that like we also really love the idea of being a part of a scene of bands that were all supportive of one another or playing together or whatever we thought it was. And I think we were really excited about the idea of trying to be successful. Yeah. I think it really excited us to try and have whatever this, whatever the success meant.

I remember, I told this to the guys that came on the show, the MXPX guys. they took us on their headlining tour we were the support it was such a big deal to us and we had done warp tour and we had done a little like support five shows there or support so on five shows there but on a whole u.s tour um i remember we were in a van and we were main support on that tour and it was a huge deal to us and i remember seeing sold out shows every night at like 15 to 2,000 cap rooms or some 3,000 cap rooms like big show shows. And I was blown away at the like crowd knowing every word. And that was what I wanted. I was like, I want to do this. And it was every step of the way we'd get an opportunity and we'd

see what success look like. And we were like, I want that. I want to do that. And then we always just kept not like going for it. It's funny. Because like, I mean, it's just drive is what you're talking about. And like that's everyone needs to have that in order to make a living as an artist in general. but it's just you have to figure out like what what it is that you want exactly it's funny though because like our first support tour was mxpx as well that's cool and it was we were the first of three and i didn't know anything about the scene that they came from you know what i mean and so like we were just sort of like i guess so like we were just sort of like we didn't really know them at all we had heard of them and i think we had seen the chick magnet video yeah yeah you know and it was sort of like

they want you know they want you to go on this tour and we're like we'd never been gone on a support tour we'd only been playing like we didn't even really have a concept of what a support you know what I mean it was just so like we're going to go on tour with braid and it's just sort of like whoever showed up later goes on last yeah you know what I mean like whoever's van didn't break down goes on first and so this was like you know like an actual like headlining and support tour and they were wonderful to us they were absolutely like yeah totally like the salt of the earth kind of dudes but we were just sort of We're like, we don't have any fucking idea what's going on.

We're just going to show up and, like, jump around a lot. I imagine you guys did really well on that tour. I think we did, but I think it was more, I think people absorbed us more. You know what I mean? Like the same, that photo on the cover of the book is actually from that tour in 1998. That's cool. In Ottawa. And the, I had to track the guy down who took the photo because it was.

Where's this one from? That one's from a truck stop. That one's actually in Amy's book. Cool. It's our friend Mike Dubin took that photo. That was on the, that was on when we were opening for Weaser, I think. Oh, well, that's cool. Yeah.

Do you have a favorite tour you guys have ever done? Support tour? Or just in tour in general? Maybe it was your own tour. Weezer's cool. Yeah, well, that's a whole other thing. I'm sure the experience is whatever it is to you. But I was like a huge Weezer fan.

Yeah, same. Pinkerton was probably an album. I mean, I love the first album. I got into it because all I had at the time was the radio when I was a teenager and I'd listen to like alternative radio. I'm back around to it now. It was after that tour, it was hard for me to like them after that tour because I didn't have. I mean, we always have fun. That's kind of our sort of thing.

But like that tour was just sort of odd for us. When was that? 2001. Okay. But the MXP. Green album? It was right before the green album came out. They were playing some of those songs.

But the MXPX tour. It was just sort of like, I don't know. It was just interesting to like observe that world. You know what I mean? Because there were parts of it that were like, this could be cool. And then we were playing those same venues like a couple years later. And I think that like I think a lot of people who saw us for the first time on that tour didn't know who we were. And then we're like, oh, this is interesting.

And then would go listen to it later. So I don't know how well we actually did on that tour. Like especially competing against MXPX's merch. Jesus Christ. They had so much merch. And people would just come and be like, I'll have one of everything. And we're just like, what? Yeah.

This is crazy. But we had a really good time on that tour. It was so, and they were just, I don't think they knew about the scene we came from that much. And so we were like teaching them about like our scene as the way we were learning about. Because I think they had just signed to, what were they on RCA? Were they on? I think they went from. I think they went from, yeah, I think they were on tooth and nail to A&M.

It was like right when the first major label record was coming out. I think so, yeah. Slowly going the way of the Buffalo maybe. Is that the name? I can't remember what the name of the record is. I think that would have been the album maybe. But it was like this sort of like, it was interesting to watch their, how do we want to put this? Because they were in kind of a unique position of just like they had this following

from the tooth and nail era. Yeah. And they were making the leap to a major label and main. mainstream and it's kind of like that balance is tricky you know what I mean because you don't want to alienate the people who you know supported you for forever but there's a ceiling on that you know what I mean like you can only like you can you can make a don't get me wrong you can make a good living doing that but if you if you have that drive that you're talking about yeah you want to reach new heights you want to you know go for that and it's just kind of an interesting thing to observe you know

and just, I don't know, we always, Gettup Kids always made like creative decisions over, business decisions. Yeah, yeah, I get that. For better or for worse, you know? And so sometimes we just watch people get bigger than us and just kind of be like, huh, that's what that's, like I remember going on the, opening for a dashboard on the Honda Civic tour and all the crap Chris had to put up with.

I was just like, I'm good. Yeah. You know, like, I don't, I don't need, I like Chris a lot. He's, he's a wonderful person. He really is a good friend. Are you guys friends? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he's such a nice guy.

He's great. I want to have him on this show. I told him, I was like, bro, I really want to have you on. The dashboard confessional, the whole thing, I was so, I didn't know him back then. I met him a few times, but I really liked his music. And I also liked, like, how he was, I don't know. And then I got to know him, and I felt really found like he was the guy I thought he was in the music. He's a very genuine person.

Yeah. And he's tougher than he looks, too. Yeah. He's actually a pretty tough dude. Yeah, it was kind of interesting just watching that whole phenomenon happen of his. Like, I remember we were on tour in like 2002, and they're like, Krabba's on CNN. I'm like, why? And they're like, oh, everyone wanted to do a story about how everybody just sings along at his shows.

And I'm like, I guess I'll watch Chris on CNN then. I don't know any other bands of, I don't know, I don't have any other friends that have ever been on CNN. Have you ever been on CNN? I don't think I have. Maybe actually, I'm not sure if I've been on Larry King or not, but back in the day. You don't remember if you've been on Larry King? Nick, have I been on Larry King? Looking right now.

I remember him. How did you forget you've been on Larry King? I think I have, 2009. A 2009, okay. I think I have a really, bad memory around things in and around performing. Yes. Because I do feel like I black out a little bit when I perform or go on anything that

feels important because I do think I struggle with stage fright. Okay. And I have. Well, performing on TV is way different. And even just in an interview on TV. Yeah. Because I love to talk. The whole reason, this book's interesting because when I look at what you did with the

book, I feel inspired to try to do things. Not to say write a book, but to do, I see someone who wanted to do something and they did it. I always get inspired. And the whole reason I started this show was these conversations happen every day in my life with musicians. That's why I wrote the book, too. It's just sort of like, it's just like these are, every story in this book is something I've told someone like you backstage. So the whole reason I wanted to do this show was, one, I really enjoy these conversations. I love getting to know other artists. I like to see what makes them special because I really do think there's something incredibly

special about making art, putting it into the world, going out and going forward and making it a life. It's a lot different than I'm painting in the garage and I'm not showing anyone. That's not putting yourself out there. Not to say that people shouldn't paint in the garage. Well, yeah. But to choose a life where you're putting yourself on the chopping block every time. Yes, and I think that that's to what you were saying before about the music industry.

You also have to do that with, you know, the public in general of just like, you have to have a thick enough skin to be able to like, like I, the scariest thing I've done was send this book to Amy to have her read it because she's an actual writer. And I was just like, okay, she's just going to tell me this is something. And she knows of shit. Yeah, she does. She knows her shit. She's cool as shit. And so she was just like, she's like, this is really good. I'm reading it, you know, after the kid goes to bed.

And I was just like, okay, then I'm safe. If, you know, but it's like you have to have a thick skin and I have to, you know, I do care. I say I don't care, but I do, you know, there's, I can't care so much about it that it consumes me. So I have to like, you know, let that, let that kind of go. But, you know, these, like, the rise of, like, podcasts and, like, this sort of thing is, like, you can actually have a conversation that is in an interview so it's not, like, canned. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And so I can kind of see, like, if you were doing an interview, I will say that once you and I write your memoir together, there will be a whole chapter on how you were on Larry King, but forgot about it. Except for I have a pair of his suspenders. You have a pair of the side. Because I remember that, but I couldn't remember if I was there with my wife and just supporting her. It all blurs together. And I do think that I get. another level of it too of just like having you know another person that you're like she's she's my wife is famous from a famous family so when you're a kid from nowhere and you you know you make

your career and in and you have your success or whatever but then you meet someone and it's not even a thing she has it's not a thing she thinks about she just grew up and so it's it's just her reality and it's not something that she acknowledges as important or valuable. It's just something that she grew up around. And she manages. It's just a job. Right. And she manages that aspect of her life in a way that it feels like very natural and healthy.

But you have to temper how you're measuring the success of things. I think also especially if you have success, you know, early on, then you're, this is something that I was actually talking to my wife about this earlier because like, I think it's a blessing and a curse to be successful early because then you're always comparing whatever you're doing now to that. And it's like a different age. You're like, what was I, 22? Well, and it's also just sort of like the scene was different.

And then also it's just like, you know, punk rock to a certain degree is a young person's game. You know what I mean? Young man's game. I say it all the time. And, you know, you have to be sort of just aware of that. And it's time for someone, it's time for my kids generation to, to play music.

And, but, you know, it is still, one thing I really did like is, I think I instilled in our kids that, like, this is a job and it's something you can do if you want to do. Exactly. But it's, this is the reality of it. You know what I mean? Like, you might be playing bars, you know, six nights a week to scrape by a living if this is what you really want to do. Or you might get on the radio and have, you know, major success for six months.

and then completely disappear and hopefully you hung on to your publishing so you can keep getting those checks. Yeah. But, you know, that's rare. That's very rare error, you know. And but when you meet people who are successful, it's sort of like, you realize that like, oh, they are just like me. They're just, they have more money than I do.

And you meet all different kinds. You meet the good version. You meet the version that may not speak to you. Like, there are definitely people out there that are living on a different wavelength. Yeah. I kind of like make room for all. of it so that I don't feel I really really like want to maybe this sounds like hippie-dippy but I really want to love people yeah and so like I'll meet someone and I'll go I was on

different wavelengths you know like we're on a different totally plane but I think watching and getting to spend time with someone who grew up around it their whole life and seeing how they don't really actually find any value there other than it just exists and they have to manage. My wife is thoughtful because she knows that people she doesn't know are watching and she also knows that she represents herself, now, her husband, her father. And you have to find your own identity within those parameters. Yeah, and then you have to live your real life.

And then you also have to just be aware of the reality that people that don't know you are watching and will probably make something out of nothing if you slip up and do this. And I think she's had like that experience her whole life. And so she's super comfortable. And she just moves really elegantly. That's very healthy. I mean, you know, you hear about plenty of people who don't deal with it that well. I think she moves through it really elegantly.

Yeah. And I think that had, I think I struggled for a long time in my own relationship with all of it and myself in finding what I think on this side of like 40 and probably in my 30s when I really started working on myself was finding the value in just me. And then all of this work stuff, whether it comes with momentary moments of fame-ish stuff or moments of success that goes up and down or whatever, it's all part of the thing when we go out and we make stuff. But the real conversation and the real work for me was finding the value in just being me. Yeah, and I think that you have to do that when you're part of a collective, like a band as well,

of just like, you know, figuring out who you are as an individual outside of that. Right. That moniker. You know what I mean? Like that, that tent. That identity. Yeah. And it's because you don't want to be like, oh, I don't want that.

You know what I mean? Because it's still something that you care about and something that you love. but at the same time you're just like, I have other facets, you know? You know what I mean? Like I do other stuff. Yeah. But it's just a matter of like learning how to be comfortable with yourself, which I don't think you really totally get until you get old enough and have enough

life experience to like. That's a good point. And enough heartbreak and trauma and disappointment in order to like just like, I'm good. Enough, yeah. I'm enough. Enough lived life. Like it really was my mid-30s when I actually came.

came to terms with everything from my adolescence, let's say, let's say 15 around when we started the band. Yeah. To then. So it would have been, it would have been 20 years. Well, and it's a weird time too to get like super successful when you're in your 20s. Yeah, 22. You know, everyone's telling you how great you are when your brain's not even fully developed yet. And you haven't even unpacked your childhood, which was full of all kinds of fucking shit. That's a whole other thing. Right. So that's what I learned was my 20s. I don't know if the success of our band was a good thing or a bad thing. It was what it was.

I don't regret it. I feel like super grateful that I ended up where I'm at. Well, that's why I was going to say. I think it's no matter what it is, it's a net positive because it gets you to this point. And I'm here, and I will say I give my band all the credit for the friendship we've had since we were 15. And the vehicle that the band was that got me to a healthy place in life where I actually like, love my family, love my life, wouldn't change a thing, wouldn't change anything we did,

but wouldn't go back and relive it, if that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, I very much don't, and this is another part of the balance of like reliving all of this stuff, whether it's the stuff in the book or doing like anniversary album shows and like all of this kind of stuff of just kind of going like, I want to, I need to be able to celebrate that. Yep. but then not just live in that time. I always call it like Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite. I think about that. If I had just been in the,

if I had just been in the big game, just one more time. And like you're still talking about this, dude? Like, I don't want to be that guy. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to be like.

I feel you. But that just means you're happy in your life. And you like don't want to be far away from your kids and your, your family and what you have now. And that's what I think about. Listen, I think. what I was trying to say too was most of my success was born out of needing to be more and

needing people to see me and needing people to value me. And I think that was I got on the other side of it and I realized it. And I think the beautiful thing about making music is we made those records. And for whatever reason we made them, they were made and people related to them however they related at the time. And I wouldn't change a thing about that. But I think I was coming from an unhealthy place most of the time. But that may, you know, I don't think you have to suffer to make good art, but it doesn't hurt.

Yeah. You know, like sometimes good art does come out of that. And the reason I love Good Charlotte so much now as a thing I kind of protect and hold dear is I actually think it was all a big part of like some healing. experience the whole time. Yeah. And I think that it's, I think if I didn't have that, I have no idea where I would be. I don't know if I'd be in a healthy place, but I, I shudder to think about my life if I

didn't have that vehicle to pour all that anxiety into all that, all that pain. That makes sense. Yeah. So I feel super grateful for it. And I'm interested to see where we are when we, we're going to make some music pretty soon. And I'm really interested to see like where. we're at and what the music feels like and because we feel compelled we haven't really felt like we

needed to make music for the last five years and like we all feel like we need to so I'm kind of interested to see that's a good place to start from yeah sure you know I mean that is a better place to start from than feeling like you you need to do it because you need to make a living you know I mean like you're lucky in that regard you know it's just you know if I can be completely on it like kind of real with you about this like finishing the book And then so it's like a combination of like finishing the book and living in that time period in my head, which is 91 to 99. And then this thing I was telling you about about the kids getting older and not needing me as much. And then also we did the 25th anniversary tour of our first record.

Right. So during that time, I was just living in who I used to be. Right. To an unhealthy degree. Right. And it's ultimately what led me. me to kind of what was my rock bottom and have been sober for a year on Wednesday. Congratulations. Thank you.

But it was kind of like I was so stuck. I mean, it's a number of things, but one of the big things that was I was so stuck in like, well, who am I now? You know what I mean? Because it was sort of like, oh, it's well documented by me and other people who I was when I was 20, you know, but like who, who am I now? And, you know, it kind of fucked me up for a little while. Yeah.

And, you know, since then, it's just sort of like going like, okay, so I, I am the person in, I am that person on the cover of that book in 1998. But, you know, I'm, they're part of me. You know what I mean? They're not, that's not all of me, you know, for one thing, I don't do this pointing thing on stage. Although it's cool, I got to say. It's a good photo.

I've had it on my desk for like 20 years. I had to track the guy down. It's a dope photo. It's like, I want to use this photo for something. I just don't know what. But yeah, it's just sort of like you have to, I think that like, if you're going to continue to create things, especially, you have to be comfortable with yourself and you have to like. And your real life where you are right now. Yeah.

And it's, it's, you know, it would be disingenuous for me to try to write music as a, you know, trying to pretend to be a 22 year old. Or if either one of us were going around acting, trying to act like we were in our like early 20s. right it's just weird and uncomfortable it's a bummer yeah and it's like full on like midlife crisis sort of yeah and i'm and i say all the time like to my brother all the time i'm like we're middle-aged yeah it doesn't mean we have to be like old but like we also have to let the hair grow gray you have to let the we have to let things be what they are otherwise if i'm going and getting i'm not saying look i'm not criticizing people who have had like plastic surgery done or whatever.

But you see people sometimes, you're like, yo, you're really reaching for an age that's passed. And there is something about aging that's also kind of cool. Yeah. I mean, there's nothing wrong with it. It's part of the process.

You know what I mean? About five, six years ago, I started hearing people referring to us as a legacy band. We have a legacy. Right. No, but like, no,

it was just a new phenomenon. Right. There was just kind of like, wait, No, we're like the young upstarts. And they're like, no, you're a legacy band now. And I'm like, what does that mean? Like, it's a compliment.

It is. But it's just sort of like, you know, then you have to like kind of go like, oh, okay. So like, you know. And I've since settled into a bit of a more elder, elder statesman sort of vibe. Yeah, you guys have a very cool legacy. It's just a different thing. It was not a phrase I had heard before. I get it.

It's like when someone calls you sir. or madam if you're like a woman at a restaurant or something that's a new one too ma'am or mr yeah or like they look was like uh mr prior will you sign this i'm like if you'll stop calling me that yeah sure just call me mad mr pryor's my dad yeah as my father i think it's cool though man and i think i think what what i was going back to with with just seeing you put the book out is i think the same thing i i did when i when i started this show. I had wanted to do it for a long time and I was stopping myself because I was worried about what it looks like and what it would and then I just did it and I got a year into it and I love it.

I don't care. I just love it. I love having the conversations I have whoever I want on. It's fun. It's fun. It's fun to do. To me, it's these conversations aren't ones that people get to listen in on. Right. And I do think that there's a ton of people out there listening that are trying to figure out how to make their version. You could say that there isn't a manual. There is a manual. It's just written by journalists and it's outdated and it's, you know, it goes out of, you know, it's, it's,

by the time a book gets published, it's not the way the music industry works anymore. But I think that like this sort of breaks down, kind of like what you're talking about with your wife, just sort of like getting used to, this is the world that I live in, you know, and it's normal, is it like people can listen to this, and it just sort of like breaks down this sort of like

artist and fan sort of barrier. It normalizes. Yeah, and it makes it, which is something that I'm a big proponent of, especially when you start talking about like mental health stuff, where it's just sort of like, you know, the tortured artist is just sort of a, you know, a trope that I, glorifying someone's drug addiction

is not a positive thing. You know what I mean? And it just like, Or that someone needs actual just mental health. Yeah. They just need help. But it's like it's a perfectly acceptable thing in our line of work, especially as singers.

Oh, he's crazy. Yeah, he's just crazy. He might show up. Who knows? You know, like, he might be too wasted to play, but like, who knows? You know, it's just like, it's a, it's still like an acceptable form of behavior. And it just like, it drives me crazy. For the longest time, I used to, like, I was really into the doors growing up.

And then I started to hate Jim Morrison for the long. his time because of the way he acted. You saw it for what it actually was. Well, but I realized now that he was just a kid. He was only like 24 or whatever when they got big. And it's just sort of like, and everyone was telling him he was a genius. So of course he just, you know, but it was sort of like the work ethic part of me was just sort of like, you can't just go on stage and be too drunk to sing and then whip your dick out.

Like you can't just do that. Like it's just like people paid money to see this and, you know, I mean, And you were also like addicted to drugs and it killed you. Yeah. And that's the truth of the story. Probably depressed and probably, you know. That's the thing. Probably needed a lot of therapy.

Probably needed to work on like figure out what was behind. Or even like the romanticizing someone like, you know, Cobain's suicide and just like. It's extremely sad. It's awful. It's like it's like the most talented person of our generation. It's just like it's just gone. And we still do it. Yeah.

We still do it. Every time someone dies within there's a morning period where people talk about how awful it is and how. And then it moves on to just be like, oh, they're legendary. Certainly celebrating their music is great. Yeah. But not talking about what actually killed them. Yeah. As a reality of like in entertainment, you are encouraged almost to be that.

To be a spectacle. To be a spectacle. Yeah, in some capacity. Be a train wreck. Yeah. And it's almost like, that's crazy. You know, and it's just kind of like, no, that's bad. I mean, it's bad business.

You know what I mean? Like, it's just sort of like you're putting out a bad product. You're, you know. It's crazy. And it's also just that kind of attitude is not being smart about like how people will remember you or how, you know, the industry will chew you up and spit you out. because as soon as you're not that mess anymore, if you do get sober, you know, or whatever,

then it's maybe they won't even be interested in you anymore. Who knows? You know, I don't know. Yeah. It's rough. I just, I just don't want to, the point I was trying to make is that I like having conversations like this in this format because it normalizes what it is to actually be in a touring band

or to be a musician or, you know what I mean? Another human being doing something. Yeah. That someone else can actually. when they listen to these conversations, they can connect with it and they can actually see you as the person and not the idea. And I think that's important. I also think it's important for other people's success. So I think that most people listen to music and look to artists for examples of inspiration and success and things that we hope to aspire to be. I think in life,

most people's natural aspirations are to grow upwards and you at hope. I hope so. And I always hope that people listening are taking something away from the conversation that they can apply to their own, you know, their own ability to aim upwards and look for their own happiness. Yeah. And their own success and whatever that means. And I think that artists are great teachers in just the...

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orgs. You know, the courage it takes to write a book and put it out, right? Whether or not you feel that,

feel it. And so I look at it as an example because this show is the same thing. It's like to be able to go, okay, I'm going to do this and then do it and then put it out. And because it's a mean world out there, you're going to get made fun of. You're going to get all the things on the internet. If you go there, you'll find any kind of a comment you want on anything you do. And I tend to not look too much. But on the other side of that, I've gotten so many people that listen and share. their own experience. Like I went through this and that episode helped me with this

and that's nice to hear because that is kind of actually the point of it. Yeah, that makes sense. That's awesome. You know, I think it's also too, you have to remember is that you have to be comfortable with failure to a certain degree.

Yeah. You know, that like you were saying like you were always talking yourself out of doing this and then when they just did it and just like, but in order to have that kind of fuck it attitude you have to be comfortable with the idea that it might not work.

Yeah. You know? And like my thing with the book was just sort of like, I wrote a book to see if I could write a book. Yeah. And if nobody read it, then I still wrote a book. You know what I mean? And it's just sort of like maybe I wrote a bad book.

I don't know. But it's just sort of like you miss all the shots you don't take as the same goes. Well, thank you. Also cool that you're complimenting me way too much. I know, I know. I try not to, but I can't help myself. It's cool too because books live forever. books really...

So do records, though. They tend to be a little more dated than books, I think. So there's something cool about a book. You know? Because it lives, like, someone's going to find this book. Someone could find this book in a thousand years and read it. And like, it means something different. And probably biodegrade by then.

No, but like, I just think in like a hundred years. Let's say 100 years. Someone could find the book and read it. Like, that's interesting to think about like where the life of the book goes. You can say that about records too. Yeah, that's true. I mean, especially in the digital age, like nothing ever disintegrates, you know what I mean? Until the whole like, you know, the big, whenever Y2K actually happens, not the not the one that was supposed to happen.

It didn't. The future of like nuclear warfare will be actually digital. Yeah, once we have like a wallie situation. Digital destruction of actual records. The EMP attack. The EMP attack that's going to take out all the digital media and we're going to have to go back to it. Are you a prepper? No.

Okay. I have a dog. Yeah. What kind of dog? We have two dogs. We have an Australian shepherd and a little pocket pit bull. Oh, cool. I have two dogs as well.

Yeah. German shepherds. Nice. Love shepherds. They're smart. Shepherds are smart. They're too smart for their own good. Ozzy shepherds are smart too.

She's very smart. Yeah. She got away. We went running the other day and she got away from me and she just fucked off. And I was just like, God damn it. Do you guys, you said you hadn't played in like four or five years? Yeah. How was that?

It was awesome. Yeah. It was so much fun. We would do it. You know, we were talking about like first things, first, we think we really want to make some music. And then we feel like if we get somewhere with that, which I think we will, I feel it calling. So I know, like, whenever we made a record. I will tell you, though, just from experience, you don't have to put out something new to tour.

I know, I know. But we feel like we want to. Yeah. And then I think we'll want to go tour. But I don't know that we would do more than. like 30 dates max. I think it'd probably be like 20. Yeah.

30. Well, there's a, especially as you get older, there's a, madness threshold that's about two to three weeks of a tour before the madness sort of kicks in. I think our max would be six weeks if we were going to do a world tour.

Never do a six week tour. That's insane. It sounds crazy. No, it's just like the tour we're routing now is like three weeks. weeks, two weeks off and three weeks. Is that like what? That's like 30 shows?

25? It's five shows a week because I, because I wanted to, which is less than usual. It used to be six shows a week. It's like 30 shows. Something like that. Around the world or there's a few weeks. That's just two legs in the U.S. It's not even the whole U.S.

So it's like we're planning the whole world, I guess. But it's like it's everyone has families and I'm. not 22 and, you know, I don't want to do that for that long. There's a story in the book that's a, when something at home about came out, the tour that we did was 65 shows in 70 days. And it's the only time I've ever completely lost my voice, is it like show 63?

And I had to go to a rock dock and they were like, we can give you steroids injected into your vocal cords. And I was like, nope, not going to do that. And so they gave me, you know, the pills or whatever. And then I just drank like two gallon jugs of water. I was so scared, like to sing. You know what I mean? Like everything was dependent on being able to sing.

And there was just nothing I could do about it. When your voice goes out. It's the only thing that scares me on tour. Well, the problem with me was my voice would go out and I would take steroids. Would you get shots? I would do. If there were shots, or I would just take the prednisone pills.

Yeah. And I would just fucking sing and then blow it out. And so I'm lucky I still have my voice because it does still work. But I have to really look after like how many shows we do in a row. That's what I was, I was like, okay, I don't think I can do more than four in a row. And so that's why it was sort of like, I just don't want to get into that situation again. On The Young and the Hopeless, our second album, we did two years in a row over 300. and 30 shows a year.

That's insane. That's a lot of... One of them was like 350 shows in a year. It was like two weeks off, counted a total days off. I mean... It was insane. We burned ourselves out so hard. Yeah, that'll kill a man.

We had no idea what we were doing. We just said yes to everything. We had no idea. That's what you do when you're young, right? Yeah, you just thought, I don't know, we were terrified that if we didn't do it, somehow we equated that to like not succeeding but now I'm like you know what I mean 60 shows a year would be fantastic to be able to get so it was spread out I think yeah you know like you spread it out yeah I don't get the whole world every other year would be great true you do that I mean you know

there's plenty of places to go yeah no the big world you get into this thing when you're routing tours of just like well we got to go here and we got to go here and we got to go here and you're like well or we could go here and here and then later we'll go there and then later we'll go there there and there, you know, like, it's just Albuquerque's not going to fall into the ocean. We'll get there eventually, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. But, yeah, I don't know. It's, I'm just trying, you know, I'm proud of the book.

I think of it a lot of like, sometimes I go like, okay, I can do that, I can do that better, which I think is good. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. Because now I've, I specifically ended it in 2000 so that I could continue writing, you know, beyond that point and I'm excited to start doing that with a clearer head

and just more experience it's like the difference from your first record to your second record of just like your first record's you know the one that you put out yourself like it's just probably very raw and very honest to listen to sometimes

same still as ours the vocals on our first record are all flat they're terrible but there people are like I love it and I'm like okay fine but then no one says anything like this is something I thought was my buddy aunt from Bayside. He was like, you come to help invent cool emo flat.

And I was like, what the fuck is that? And he's like, you know, like, you're singing flat. I'm like, you mean singing wrong? Like, I invented singing wrong. It was raw. But then like when we play those songs live, I sing them in the right key. And no one goes like, oh, this sucks. You know what I mean?

Like, it just sort of like, I don't know. Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that like I'm excited to, like, I'm excited to like have had written that and be able to look at it and then also to be a more clear-headed person and to like, you know, do what comes next. And it's like, you know, as an artist, you're always like, like, I want to, the next thing is always the most important thing. Whatever, whatever the newest album. What's your favorite record? Oh, the new one. The new one's the best one. But to be able to be in my life and actually feel it. Yeah. and live it.

And I feel very grateful. And I've seen people that haven't been able to. And I feel for them. And so when I see someone that's in their real life, I feel very grateful for them. And I also love, because in this show, I get to actually give people their flowers, so to speak. And, you know, I think you got, I feel like you guys deserve it. And I think the book is a really. great example of to be able to capture that time.

Thanks, man. It's really special. I thank you. I appreciate that. You're making me so uncomfortable right now. Awesome, bro. Thanks for coming. Yeah, thanks for having me.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode of Artist Friendly. If you really liked it, you can follow, like, subscribe to the show, anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support. And we'll see you next time. I don't know.