Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Melissa Etheridge

Episode Date: April 29, 2026

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Melissa Etheridge. Following the release of her latest album, Rise, the Grammy and Oscar-winning rock alum joins Madden for a hopeful, wide-ranging conversation. Sitting across from each other, they traverse how a cancer diagnosis two decades ago completely rewired the way she eats, thinks, and moves through the world — and why 22 years later, she’s never felt better. Etheridge also reflects on losing her son to an opioid overdose, the foundation she started in his name to fund psychedelic research for addiction treatment, and what it felt like to come out in 1993. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Director/Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman ------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Good Charlotte. Good Charlotte is a band I started when I was 16 with my brother, and it is the reason I'm sitting here today. Thank you, Good Charlotte. We're going on tour. June 20th, San Diego County Fair, Delmar, California. And July 25th through August 30th, Good Charlotte and Avenged Sevenfold touring in the U.S. Starting July 25th, Thunder Ridge Nature Arena in Ridgedale, Missouri, an ending at BMO Stadium in Los Angeles, California on August 30th. If you are in the UK or Europe, we're coming to you this

November. November 8th, we are in Stockholm, Sweden. November 11th, we're in Munich, Germany. November 13th, we're in Brussels, Belgium. November 14th, Dusseldorf, Germany. In November 16th, we're in Amsterdam. November 17th, Paris, France. November 19th, London, UK. November 20th, Manchester, UK. Tickets are on sale now. We will see you at the show. Well, life is a practice. Yeah. We're not supposed to get it all perfect, you know.

There's things you learn and you keep learning, and it's all we're doing is learning. I don't like to miss when I get to meet someone for the first time. Oh. It's like a nice, it's a nice thing. It's a nice energy. Sometimes it's really nice, you know? Sometimes it can be like, whoa, but sometimes.

it's really nice. Good. And I have to say, it's like wonderful to meet you. Oh, well, thank you. Yeah. I have lots of people in my family who are very excited that I'm meeting you, and I'm very excited. That's really nice to hear.

It's so funny how like you're such a, you're such an iconic, you know, your music and you as the idea of you. Right? So the idea of you, because I've never met you before. Uh-huh. So it's just my idea of you, right? is so iconic and so badass and so all these things, so rock and roll. And then to meet you is really lovely.

Cool. It's really nice. A lot of people think I'm going to be really intense or something. Well, your music has an intensity to it. Yeah. It's bold. I'm very relaxed. I've been California for 40 years.

You're in California? Yeah. That's cool. It's really great. I'm buzzing. Cool. Good. Good.

And we look like we could like maybe be in a band together. We can be in a band together. We could. I really like it. How are you doing today? I am very good today. Yeah. To do yoga this morning.

You do yoga? Yeah. I try too. I don't do it enough, but I do it a little bit. Keeps you being able to move and that's important to stay moving. I should do yoga. I know, I really should. It's just, it's, it calls me sometimes.

Even just the stretching part of it. You know, yoga's one of those things that you never like go, hey, I finished yoga. You know, there's no, it's a practice. practice every day and you can get better and you can just, it meets you right where you're at. Yeah. It's kind of like a physical reminder that everything we do should kind of be a practice. Well, life is a practice. Yeah. We're not supposed to get it all perfect, you know. There's things you learn and you keep learning and it's all we're doing is learning. Yeah. If you got up every day and it was more of a mindful practice and less of a result-driven.

Problem-solving. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Mindfulness is a big, big. part of surviving all this. Yeah, surviving it. Yeah. You know. Do you have any, like, philosophies that you've found that at some point started, you started kind of embracing and, like, it's really worked for you? Oh, yeah.

I had a big, my big moment was 2003. Someone say my, I was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2004. But right before that, in 2003, here I, here I'd been a rock star. been a rock and roll, but I wasn't a drinker. I didn't do drugs. I fooled around a little bit more than I should have, but, you know, but just the, you know, the drugs and substances,

I was never addicted to anything. And I was like, I was a good little rock star. But in my early 40s, I, I'd smoke a little cannabis here and there, and it was fun. And I had a girlfriend at the time who had never done edibles. And I was like, oh, we got to do edibles. I you know and she cooks bakes really well so she made these great edible cookies and she's kind of from the Midwest and she's like oh it calls for a quarter cup cannabis well a cup

is going to be great and so I eat one and then oh it's not working and they eat another one and then oh you get the munchies and you eat three and it was just I I took what I call a heroic dose of cannabis right yeah and but I had this experience this in enlightening experience in 2003. Like I came back a changed person the next morning. You got so high. So high that you, and it's a state you can get into with meditation, yoga.

There's lots of ways to get there, but psychedelics are a shortcut. Yeah. And it really opened my mind to the spiritual nature of reality. and really the law of attraction and how things, you know, you manifest things, how important, how our minds are really running this whole thing. And it just started to, you know, crumble my Midwestern Methodist mindset that I'd been in my whole life and really changed my philosophy on life, really changed my. And then months later, I was diagnosed with cancer. And I went, oh, I had already died because there's a point in that sort of enlightenment that you realize,

oh, death, I've died, so I'm not afraid of death anymore. It's hard to explain. Yeah, yeah, I understand. It's old. You're at peace with the idea of it. Yeah, exactly. So all of a sudden this cancer was like, wait a minute, this is just a, this is me shedding something.

And I completely changed what I ate, changed. stress stress is the biggest thing and you know just how I looked at the world how I held the world you know I started thinking about myself more thinking about more taking care of myself before I made sure everybody else was all right little things like that that really make a difference 2003 so before that you had to likely be pondering those questions before and then you had that psychedelic experience, which I believe that psychedelics are like healing meds. So I think most people do now agree that like weed isn't a drug. It can be misused for sure like anything. Yeah. But I do think it's a medication. Same with psilocybin. I think that mushrooms are like incredible if they're used

the right way. Yeah. But you had to ponder that stuff and whether you let yourself go deeper on it or I think hearing that you had a Midwest Methodist upbringing, I had a very evangelical deep, I grew up in Southern Maryland, which is an interesting place because it's in Maryland, but it's down in the sticks. Yeah. And it's like very religious and I was not allowed to do anything. And I like you, I didn't do drugs. I drank.

I didn't have a great relationship with alcohol, but that's another story because my dad was an alcoholic. I was conflicted about alcohol, but I did drink. but I didn't get in trouble. I didn't like party like that. I mean, we had something to do. We were going to do music. Yeah, I was going to make it. No, this is focused.

But I was very constricted. So I was always in conflict with myself when I wanted to like, normal things, like, whether it was like girls or this or that, like I was always in conflict because I knew I was bad. I was at my core, I was bad. I was kind of told that my whole life.

So I think it was very interesting. job choice to go and start chasing rock and roll. And then I think like you, I had some moment as well of enlightenment where everything fell away. And I realized, but it's interesting that in 2003, it was after a ton of success, validation, all kinds of things that you could say, if you looked at it from the outside, so we go, that person hasn't figured out. Look at them. they have it all figured out that it happens almost like you had to go through everything to find out the answers were not there, even though you should do those things because you're capable of it and you should always try to aim upwards and accomplish things. It's not the answer to

the life question, which you found in like a simple moment. The biggest aha was that for years and years and decades, I had chased, okay, I need everyone else to tell me. if I'm any good. I need to know, am I on the charts? Am I on the radio? What's my, you know, where's my album? Where's my song? What's, what do they think of me? How many people are here? And it was always what someone else thought of me. And that will, that will ultimately kill you, you know, in the end. But it would definitely make you unhappy because I came to the point where I was like, oh, this is my moment. And then my moment passed. And I was like, wow, that was my moment. how come all my problems aren't solved like I thought they would be.

And then you realize it, you have to feel that inside. You have to love you. I have to love my work. I have to love what I'm doing. And then everyone else can see that and they can go, oh, that's great. And then you get the momentum behind your own momentum. But any other way is just you're just going to, it's shallow, it's hollow. It's interesting, though, because to hear, you're saying exactly what I,

believe. I would say I started really working on myself in my like mid 30s was when I was like, oh shit. Like I haven't figured out anything and I've done what I thought was everything. I try telling people in their 30s. I'm like, oh, I know, I know. Wait, he hit 50. Wait, he hit 60. 60 is when you go, I don't care anymore. It's so nice. You don't, you don't, you don't care what people think about you and you know that it's all about what you feel about yourself. And And there's really, there's really something in this wisdom. And I, this is my favorite time that I've ever been alive is right now. So, well, you, you have such good energy. You've really good energy. Thank you. You're, you're thriving, like energetically sound. You know, I'm an energy person

and I, and I'm not saying I'm like, all the all-knowing energy person, but I just feel what I feel. So I'm a very like, that feels like yes, that feels like no. Or, you know what I mean? It's a very good way to go about like that's our feelings are really how we should make our choices. And getting clear where nothing clouds where no amount of money or no amount of shine or no amount of whatever it is that you could say like everyone has their vices or their fixations. So someone could be obsessed with this or that. If you can get clear and just go, that feels like icky and that feels like, yes, that feels exciting. There's a real clear feeling of yes.

and no. And then it's a best way to be. Right. And then the confidence to go like, I don't actually have a clear feeling. I'm going to wait and let it emerge. Because you will. Yeah. Right.

Which takes some patience and some trust and some ability to like not get swept up in everyone else's like need for an answer or need to go forward or need when you're like, I don't really have a clear yes or no on this. I'm going to have to wait. And if that means no because you need a yes, then it's a no, I guess. Yeah. Because I can't. But there's something about that clarity that you have because I can feel it that I wonder

you're this very accomplished, you know, award winning Grammy and Oscar, millions of albums, all the things that anyone could put on a board and go like, look, look at this. I've been out here for 20 years and I grew up in like really down, far away place. So I had a very clear experience because. of where I was from, it was so small. I wasn't confused about some stuff, you know. And what I've always kind of noticed is out here after it went hanging around long enough and then you start to meet all the different types of successes, right? There's the guy who's famous. There's the actor. There's the musician. There's the billionaire guy. Yeah. Sold the this. There's the this guy. All great.

I'm not, I'm not saying it like they're bad. I'm friends with a lot of them. Really accomplished people are really interesting people most of the time. But what I started to notice is there's a large group of people who are not happy. There's a certain group of people that I've noticed are kind of, you can't sit with them. It's like a weird, it's can't explain it, but it's like they're not there, you know, and there's no room in the room for anyone. I go, why, why, why does it feel like they haven't figured out how to be in this body they're in, in this life they're in? and maybe shut off that when they need to and be here with everybody or, you know, but it seems like there's people who have figured it out.

Yeah. Which is like a Zen feeling. And it does not relate to money. Right. Or anything. There's very happy, very poor people that I know. And there's very, you know, unhappy, rich people. And there's very, I know some really happy rich people too.

Lots of them, yeah. Yeah. And it's all like what you said, it's just. energy. If we really gave into a bit more of how we understand energy and how feel it, and really, like I said, just operate from that, we would all be a lot, life would make a lot more sense. It's the journey of self. Absolutely. And I think when I listen to your music, I hear you. There's some journey going on you were in. You're in some journey always. Will doing it, yeah.

Yeah, you've got some, you're figuring something out, you're saying something. It feels very self. And maybe the enlightenment you had in 2003 was the connection with yourself. And that was like the moment where you like, you came together. Because almost like sometimes I do feel like we left our life we thought was little. We thought it wasn't important. We thought we were less. We thought we were, we thought we needed to be rock stars.

We thought we needed to write a hit song. It's great we did. But it actually wasn't what we needed to do to be special, to be invaluable, to be loved. The journey was later. The journey wasn't getting famous. The journey was my own inner beliefs about it and about myself and how I felt about myself. And just looking back on it, it's very different. I mean, very glad have loved my career.

Oh, yeah, of course. You know, and but I think you can actually, um, appreciate it on a deeper level than just a hit, even though that's amazing to have a hit. There's something deeper there. I tell people it is about, it's about reaching people. I love performing. I love, I just, Chris Stable called me a road dog. I'm a road dog.

Yeah. I own it because that's where all the work pays off is when I walk out on stage and there they are and they love the songs and they, love listening to it and and and it's a it's an energy exchange for two hours we're going to do this and and there's nothing like that and so everything else i do is so that then i can go on the road like i'm about to do in two weeks and do it again you're going on the road in two weeks what's the the the next like three months look like uh it's well the album comes out also in two weeks oh say album and tour together yeah album tour together that's That's nice.

So it's a new, so I get to do a few new songs. I will always do my hits because I love them and my audience loves them and we do them. And I have changed up a bit of my show that I've done for the last few years. And so I've got new songs and getting out on the road with my band, which I love. So the next. Bad ass band. Bad ass band. Oh my God.

I have worked with some of the greatest musicians. Yeah, I know you have. You know good musicians too. When you lock into them, there's just, there's something so like getting in a really good car. There's nothing more badass than like a band. On stage and those moments click. Yeah. And I'm very, I'm not, we have to do this, this, this and this.

That's what we're doing. I leave the borders open, a lot of room to when it's a hot night, we're jamming. Yeah. It says, right, we're going to jam. Yeah. So I'm really looking forward to that. So the first part of the tour is just an evening with me. So it's an evening.

So I have all two hours. We're going to play. and then the summer I actually go out with Winona Judd Amazing Yeah And so we get to play

You know The big old Amphitheaters and stuff And that's awesome Yeah Have you guys Know each other a long time I have not

Oh really I've met her A couple times Yeah Yeah I'm really Yeah I'm like yeah So you have a full year Yes sir

When do you wrap up the touring Well I try to work April through Up to November That's my That's my I'm gonna work

once football really starts, we start, then settled in November, December, January, February. I really try to be home. You want to be home for the postseason. Yes. Yes. Yes. And, you know, that's, and just to be with my family and really just enjoy myself. Yeah.

So that about now, I'm like, oh, I'm ready to go back on the road again. Yeah, you're ready to go. That's amazing. You love football. I do very much. I know your team is the cheaps. Yes, sir. Yes.

I mean, I grew up in Kansas right next to, right really close to Kansas City, about 45 minutes from Kansas City. And I remember 1970, I was nine years old. And my dad was a big football fan. He was an athletic guy. And he was watching the Chiefs. And he would explain everything to me, which I really enjoyed. He just told me all about football. And so when they won the Super Bowl in 1970, the whole neighborhood went crazy.

and it's really something that burns into a kid, you know, you're like, oh, this is great. And 50 years later, we finally won another one. You know, finally got, we hadn't even been in the Super Bowl in 50 years, but I was, I was a big fan for my whole life. And I've really enjoyed the last 10 years. I'll bet any amount of money that that moment where you're there and everyone's happy is what seared it into your brain and your consciousness of like a joyful thing. to experience. And I bet every time you watch a Chiefs game, you're getting close to touching that joy every time.

Well, that's it. When I lost my father 30 years ago when he was, when I was 30. And that's the, I mean, just it takes your whole body. When we won that, the AFC championship to get back in the Super Bowl for that first year with

Mahomes. Yeah, what a game. It was, I mean, my father was there. weeping, you're just, you know, it's such a crazy, crazy experience. I'm like, I don't know, this is a game, but I, it means a lot. It means so. And so I know whenever I see, I love anybody who loves a sports team. Yeah. I think it's a, I think it's a good thing to do. It's

healthy. It's healthy. It's healthy. Unless you're a Jets fan. It's, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a couple teams. Because I don't like the Cowboys. Yeah. Well, that's a lot of people like the Cowboys. but I'm a commanders fan. Yeah. We grew up with the Redskins. Yeah. And it's been a long, tough road. I do root for the Ravens.

That says it is a nice little bonus to have. You get to jump over there. A Maryland team, even though we grew up D.C. side. The Ravens came and we root for the Ravens, but we kind of bleed for the, for Washington. And it's been a long road for us. You've got your NFC, AFC thing. So it's fun. I'm excited again.

We're all undefeated. Here we go. That's really, really, really nice. Do you have any favorite players? Well, I love me some Travis Kelsey. Yeah. I mean, he's just, he's awesome. Super cool.

Is he coming back? Yeah. Oh, he's coming back. Yesterday, he said, One more? I'll do one more. One more. I'll do one more.

Come on. We need to all say goodbye to him. No, I knew it. He's not done. Yeah, and he doesn't, that was a horrible season we had. He doesn't want to end on that season. Yeah, he got to redo it.

Yeah. And then my new favorite is Kenneth Walker, that we've been the Super Bowl, we just got him. Yeah, that's right. I just saw that yesterday. My son showed me, he keeps up on all of it. Oh, yeah. He tells me all the trades.

Yeah, we're back. We got Max Crosby at the Ravens. At least we don't see him twice a year and now. Raiders used to, oh, horrible. Do you ever go to the games? I didn't for a long time. I just didn't have the opportunity. It didn't come up because Kansas City is pretty far away from here now.

But I sang the anthem at a couple songs at one of the AFC championships. Did you enjoy that? I did. It's kind of crazy, right? That big football crowd. You know what the chiefs do, you know, and the home of the chiefs, and they all say chiefs. And so I was like, they warned me. They say, look, they're going to do this.

I'm like, okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's really, really fun. And it's really nerve-wracking. People are like, you're ever nervous? I'm like, no, no, I'm never nervous except when you sing the national anthem because you can tank your whole career. If you mess up the national anthem, right? right? Yeah, I have a rule with that. I don't, I've never done the anthem because it terrifies me.

You really have to be a next level. You could do it. Obviously, Chris Stapleton could do it. There's a list of artists who could do it. I'm not doing it, but, you know, I don't have that range. It's like start low, start low, start low, start low, start low, start low, you're in big trouble. Well, I made you a little thank you card. What'd you do? Check it out. I made that for you. So I have a little thing when I do thank you cards or birthday cards. I do them on trading cards. Oh, look at that. Oh, look.

It's a little Mahomes. I was going to say my homes. A little Mahomes peeking through. Mahomes. And that's my favorite Johnny Cash song. One piece at a time. One piece at a time. And there's a trading card game that I collect called One Piece and it all kind of ties together.

Oh, yeah? And I just like always connect things. I might have heard. Someone might have told me. Someone might have told me. And let's see, does this, that mean anything to you? Oh, that does.

This is one piece. This is what I collect. Yeah, what are we watching tonight? Oh, that's a leader. Come on. Oh, my God. That's a fucking great. Oh, my God.

That's a leader. I went all the way. That's a leader card. Come on. I know. Eish. Come on. These are, these are.

It just goes on and on. Yeah, buddy. Here we go. I love you very much. Yeah. There you go. And one more. Thank you.

Yamato. All Yamato's. Your favorite? A whole Yamato deck. Right? I love Yamato. I love Mahoto. You can see why.

She's cool. I didn't personalize any of them. No, no, no. I got a, it's just something I do. And it's a fun little way to do personal notes, you know, less of those these days.

So I made you a little Patrick Mahomes. Thank you card. I appreciate that. Let's go next to my Patrick Mahomes. I think I have his rookie card. Would you get me this year? Yeah, you got me the rookie card. You got the little shrine going.

Thank you. This is very thoughtful. You are welcome. It's a trade. Yeah, that's what we do. We trade cards, right? Was that kind of the nature of your relationship with your dad? Was it fun like that?

Oh, yeah. My dad was all about my dad. My dad was high school teacher, a basketball coach. He grew up super poor, like migrant farmer. No shoes sort of thing and got a scholarship because he was on a swim team. And so he goes to Kansas. And when I first started playing guitar, he brought a guitar home for my sister, who was older than me and she didn't want to play.

And I grabbed it. And they were like, you're too young, you're too young. But he was like, okay, well, if you want to try. So I started playing about eight at eight years old, nine, ten. Did you have a natural, like, knack for it? Well, I had a desire for it. Right. There you go.

That's what you need. Yeah. And I want to do it every day. Right. You got to sit there for hours. Eventually, my fingers bled and you get past those hard parts. And I could play and I started playing in bands. Like grown guys and me, 12, 13 year old.

But because my father drove me everywhere, every rehearsal, every gig I played, I got to play in bars, clubs all over the Midwest for like five years. So the performer you see is because he drove. drove me around. He was really supportive. He wasn't, he didn't push me or anything. He just allowed it to love you. Yeah, he just loved me. And you wanted to do it. And he was like, all right, let's get in the car. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's super cool. Imagine had he not. Yeah. Imagine had he not said, yeah, let's go. You know, like, whatever that feeding that dog, I would say that to my wife. Like, let's just feed it, whatever it is. Like, let's just, like, they're into that. Like, just don't

dump everything, whatever it is, like, what do they need to go get supplies or whatever project they're doing or whatever passion they have? I love that. You kind of just go and you're like, okay, well, that's how we got into cards. My son's into it. But now it's 10 years later, turned into this like whole world that's like actually quite big. We have kind of an insane collection, but it was him. It was his interest. He was just, my kids too. So, you know, and so, or baseball or with my daughter dance or whatever, but like I think that parent that'll drive. Just be there, show up.

Yes, show up. Very important. Amazing. Where did the songs come from? Oh. Like, when did those emerge? Well, I grew up in the 60s and 70s, so I grew up in this delicious time of music

and singer-songwriters. And my parents, my dad, was cool. And he listened to really, you know, great. I mean, we had everyone from Johnny Mathis and Aretha Franklin to Simon Garfunkel and Moms and Pappas, and he was a big Neil Diamond fan. So there's a lot of songwritory things around me. The first album he got for me as a gift when I was 10 or something was Carol King's, you know, tapestry.

Cool, yeah. So to me it was the songwriting was a part of the song. The singer-songwriter was a thing I could be. It always like stood out to you. Yeah. The two were like. That's interesting. That makes total sense.

I felt the same way when I was growing up. Yeah, it wasn't about being someone who's going to sing some other stuff. It's, I'm going to play the guitar. I'm going to live my life. And then I'm going to take that life and create art from it. Right. And that's the only way that I thought. I mean, that's what Joni Mitchell did.

As far as I knew, that's what Bruce Springsteen was doing. Yeah. This is it. So I just worked on that. And I, the songs, I was to people that all of my songs, you know, are mostly truthful. And then sometimes there's more truth to me that are in my songs. Right.

You can't, you have to, there's a place to make it palatable for everyone and also truthful to me. Especially before I came out, I was very non-gender in my music. So it made it very, you know, I'm the only one. I'm the, although I wrote that afterwards. Right. So when did you come out? It came out in 93. I was 32 years old.

That's like, it's a long time. Yeah. My first, it was my fourth album that came out after. So my first three albums, I wasn't, but nobody came out in the 80s. Right. That's so interesting because we live in a time now where, God, I can only imagine, you know, we're always standing on the shoulders of the people who did something before us that laid the road for us to travel down.

And I always wonder, like, how. We don't think about it now, how difficult it was in the 80s and the 90s and the 2000s. And, you know, it's interesting to me to think about like, do you feel like the younger generation sees that work? Do you feel like they see it? And they appreciate it. I'm not saying they don't. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't think they need to. Right. I think, believe me, not a week goes by that someone doesn't, you know, thank me. You know, just say something to me. So it's not like they feel underappreciated. I don't at all. And I'm glad that people don't know what it was like.

Right. That that is gone. That is such a nice. Yeah. People would ask me in 93. They would say, well, what do you think about the future? And I'm like, I do believe someday a young pop artist is going to come on. People are going to go crazy.

And they're going to be gay from the get go. Chapel Rhone, Sam Smith. Yeah. They're all here and it makes me very, very happy. That's such a nice way to put it. But I guess I say it to say, and you answered it, but I guess I say it to say to give you your flowers. I have lots of flowers.

I know, I know. I'm really okay. But I think it's more of like the empathy that you have when you look back and think like the idea that someone could be themselves or that they had to think twice about being themselves is something that, frustrates me. And I'm happy we're here, but we are here collectively through a bunch of people's effort and their lived experiences and they're, you know, being fearless and being able to step out and say like, this is me. Because we're never alone. No, I consider Billy Jean King

was that for me. Because she was the first word I'd ever saw lesbian next to anybody. And it was, she lost everything, you know, back in the late 70s. So when it was time for me and I was ready to come out, I reached out to her and Martina and Abertilova and they were very supportive. And there was a real, it was a very small community, but there was those of us who were like, that's cool shit. You can do this, yeah. Yeah.

That's cool. You ever think that maybe also there was, like it also maybe drove you to like, there was an edge, you know, that I think like sometimes the chip on your shoulder. is a good thing sometimes. Sometimes it can get in our way, but a lot of times it can be really powerful. Not to say it's a good thing, but there is like an edge to it. Yeah. When my first album came out, it was that unspoken thing.

And I would go do a show and my first two rows would be women losing their minds, right? And I'm like, I don't know, you know, what's this? And so you, but it was that sort of, oh, we're all getting. I know this and you and Rorya and there's there is that thing but there came a point I put two albums out and then my third album is okay and this is like 90 91 and grunge is starting and I'm like hey I can wear flannel I've been wearing flannel for a long time you know and yeah and so so and I hear alternative and I'm like this is the time and I did an interview with someone for it was music express magazine Oh yeah, I remember that. That's crazy. And I was on the cover. And he changed every pronoun that I used.

He changed it to my boyfriend. And I was... No way. And it horrified me because there was an underground. You know, the gay community was really strong, but it was underground. Right. And I'm like, oh my God, they're going to think that I did this. And so my plan was I was going to come out on Arsenio Hall.

Oh, wow. You know, but before that, I worked on the Clinton Gore campaign and at the... inauguration there was a I was around a lot of really important strong powerful gay leaders right and they were the ones they're the ones who were because this is during AIDS and they're the ones who are standing up and saying you know act up and and these guys they would put in their jobs and everything on the line these women and and they would here come to this they would kind of drag me along and I was like yeah I got to do this this is my brothers and sisters right and And so I finally came out at the inauguration, actually.

What a time, man. What a wild time. I can almost feel you in the room with those people and at those times because I can see the clips on TV and I can so interesting to have to hear you talk about it. It's really cool to hear that. I'm grateful that I had the opportunity to be truthful to myself and then speak about it. And like I said, it comes back to me constantly. I'm very happy.

Sitting with you and getting a sense of you, it makes me feel good about the person that, you know, I feel like you helped more people than you could even imagine could relate to you and you'll never meet them. And, but to know that you've, that's a really cool thing to think about.

This is the butterfly effect of it. Because I really believe in that too. It's like, how many people did that song get to? We don't, we'll never be able to quantify the vibrations of one action or one song or one. And so when you start to kind of try to round all that up, you couldn't quantify how you've impacted the globe.

Now what is there, 8 billion people? It's interesting to think about. But the other thing I'll say is alternative. Because this is what I was talking to my brother. I was talking, my twin brother is my best friend. We talk about every time I'm coming in here to talk to someone. I'm always like a little buzz to like I'm like,

And so I'm like thinking, whoa, what are we going to talk about? You know, I never know, right? He said it. He's like, oh, she's the original alternative. Like, she's, that's, that's all rock. That's the beginning of alternative rock. And when you think about, it's cool. And that's what we came up in is alternative rock radio in the 90s.

That's when our like musical kind of, we started our band in 96. We were listening to alternative radio. Of course, I grew up listening and hearing your music. music and so but when you think about it it really is like the beginning it all starts from somewhere and it starts to emerge and you were like the beginning of an alternative that's been now going for you know i mean the 90s it's exploded but it never stopped i mean there's every band's alternative now yeah it's a kind of it's almost genreless now right if i find that i mean this new album i have it's like where is it going i mean to me it's just same it's rock

and roll. Right. But that rock and roll isn't really a place anymore. I mean, the country music sounds like 90s rock and roll. I agree. It's kind of there. And you've always had a little country. Yeah, I grew up playing in country bands. I can sing to stand by your man with Tommy Wynette. I can kill it, you know, and Johnny Cash, big influence on me. And the radio station in the 60s that I grew up as a child, who was one AM radio station. That's all we had. It was out of Kansas said it was called WHB. And it played everything. It would play Tammy Wynette. Then it would play Led Zeppelin. They didn't play Marvin Gay. Then you could hear Johnny Mathis. And it was just, there was not these, this is your music, this is your music. It was all the just good music.

And I, I always felt that. So I was always, don't put me in a box. Just if you like it, listen to it. Yeah. I think that's great music too. It's kind of genreless. I think that about classic music. It's genreless. It's rock and roll, but it's a little country sometimes, or it's a little whatever. You can hear your roots in the music. You know, you can hear you're from where you're from. Yeah. And it plays well if a country artist wanted to sing it easy. You could go country. The only ones that ever covered my music have been country artists. It's interesting. A little Nicorette. How long you've been on the Nicorette, my friend. Seven years. Yeah, see. So my wife, before she was my wife, she's my best friend. And one year for

New Year's Eve. I said, my New Year's resolution is that you will stop Nicorette. And she's like, I don't think that's how it works. It's not good for you, but it's not, it's better for you than cigarettes. Okay. But make a case for me. I want to, I want to,

because you could speed up my dependency getting off of that. Nicotine's probably the hardest thing to get off of. Oh, it's like, absolutely. It gets its claws in you. I remember I was, for a minute, I was one of the long line of women who was up to play Janice Joplin. And so I was like, okay, Janice, she smoked a lot. So I was like, you know what, I got to get,

or I'm going to look like someone who, you know, you see them in the movies and they don't know how to smoke, right? And I'm like, I need to do this. So I would, I would smoke a cigarette once a day, like at the end of the night, at the end of the day, I'm like, okay, I'm going to, one, one a day. And I remember the morning I woke up and I said, I don't feel very good. But, and the first thought in my head was, bing, but I bet if I smoked a cigarette, I'd feel better. And I was like, there it is. That's what it is. Boom. And it's a little thing in your mind. And so mindfulness is what will is really the only way out of it now, I think. I do think so. I got off everything else. Yeah. Yeah. Although I wasn't really on anything else. I stopped drinking years ago just because I

didn't like the way it made me feel. Have you tried like something like psilocybin or something even harder to because I have a foundation. I lost my son to an opioid overdose about five years ago. I'm sorry. And I tell people he was my greatest teacher. He's, you know, I'm grateful for the time I knew him and he, it was a hard life for him. And he, and what we did was start a foundation called the Etheridge Foundation that we provide funds for research into psychedelics and how they can help with opioid use disorder or just addiction in general. But what, we're finding now in these studies is that it can interrupt your neural, your neural pathways, those grooves, those nicotine grooves that you've put in there, it gives you a moment. And that's

why, I mean, we've heard of ayahuasca now, but beyond that, there's a thing called ibogaine in Iboga. It's a root from Africa, ancient, ancient. And it, it is, we're finding that one treatment of that totally opens up your neural pathways and you put in all the good habits then and you won't have the you can actually get off of it like this so I'm into it okay um ayahuasca scares me because I don't like to throw up you and I hear you throw up on it yeah you don't want to know the mysteries of the world because you're afraid to I am okay okay all right fear is a real stopper you know what but when you really keeps us on a journey when you throw up you're going to be happy that you're throwing up. Okay. Well, I'd do it with you. Okay. I'll call you next time.

Okay. Hopefully somewhere not in all the way down. No, no, no. I know many people have gone to Peru and I'm like, okay, I don't need to do that. But I recently heard someone did a mushroom journey with a person who does it. And then I also, which I'm interested in doing, because I, I microdosed and I found that too. I only did like one cycle for like a couple months and I found it had a huge impact on me. And I haven't done it since and I kind of always think about it. I'm like, maybe I should do another cycle because that really had a huge impact on my. Yeah. If we got out of the thought of, oh, this is so woo-woo and I'm going to be wearing white robes soon or something. You know, no, this is, it can absolutely be done in a way that it's so helpful just rewiring those things

that we're talking about, those habits, those thoughts that we don't even know that we're put in there when we were fucking 10 years old. Yeah. It's old shit. Yes. So that's where we're focusing on actually the care and the facilitation after the journey because you can have this moment, but you can go back home and just it can all go right back in. And it's not just, the thing is, is like the addict who's suffering is like the most apparent, right? The most, you know, the most, most honest person. They're in their addiction and their suffering. But the rest of us are in some addiction suffering in smaller ways where we're kind of we can hide it a little bit. We're functioning. And we're functioning. But we're still dealing with old shit. Yeah. And we need to go into the basement

and clean it out. We're in a problem solving consciousness. That's what we wake up in every day. We we it's like what do we solve today? What are we going to get done? Let's get our coffee so we can be can be, all the things that are legal are to help our problem solving consciousness, cigarettes, you know, coffee, these things are stimulus. Yeah, yeah. I love them. We need to get done. Yeah.

That's where we're at. Yeah. Well, that's going to. This is my third coffee today. Oh, okay. So you've got, so nicotine is not the only thing. It's a cocktail. Yeah.

But you get it, you get it done. Yeah. And the thought that, oh, I can't get it done without these things or that I need to get it done, And that's the part that needs to change, not just, oh, I need to stop doing this, but it's, it's that belief. And beyond that, I believe that exploring your consciousness is a civil right. Right. And it would be great if it was something that we could lead ourselves to. And you'll find as you get older, it'll be more important to you.

The problem, you know, the kids will get older, the, that you'll see that they'll, they'll, they'll get into their things that they're into. and you'll realize that you're just here to feed and water them and love them and then they make all their choices and they're going to have problems and go up and down that's that's what we all do so we can learn to make better choices and improve and then everybody improves that's that's that's the organism that we are so it's the evolution yeah the interesting thing too that i just thought about is exploring your like consciousness and your subconscious and the deeper you Did I just think that? Did I just notice that, that subconscious part of you is actually like true spirituality.

Yeah. And the idea of that by people, it's interesting because I grew up, listen, I'm not saying there's not a lot of value to some, to religious teachings. There's not, there's a lot of value to them. But that I find because I come from that deep in me like, I'm like, I can't do that. When I first did mushrooms, right, I took microdose and I tried to explain that to my mom. I was like, no, no, mom, I wasn't tripping. I wasn't tripping. It was a little microdose and it made me feel a little, it was subtle.

It made me feel like a little happier. It made me feel a little bit in a better mood. It wasn't a trip. I wasn't seeing things. I was like, and I did that for four days. Then I did three days off. Then I did it. I did that for four weeks.

And like, she couldn't, all she heard was I was doing mushrooms. Yeah. Oh, and I was like, no, mom. I'm in touch. I'm more in touch. God forbid we did use something that came from the earth to make us feel better. Right. Yeah. It's, it's.

I did it eventually get on gummies, weed gummies, though. Okay. Yeah. She's come over a little bit too. All right. We'll do mushrooms. She's scared of those. But I was like, okay, just the weed is enough.

Yeah. For now. Yeah. No, but it's the, when I had my, whoo, experience, my heroic dose, I, afterwards, for 20 years, I studied books and I studied the world's religions. And there's actually good evidence that religion was actually born out of mushrooms and things. Right. That the understanding that we're all one.

No, we started talking actually after mushrooms. Yeah. We actually like, you know, language and stuff like that. Yeah. It would be nice if it got a little better, you know, rap in the world. So we could. Incredible. Yeah.

Stuff, though. Could. Incredible. Very much so. and it's it's finding its way these days also incredible what you're doing with it with addiction i think is incredible because i think that i actually have seen it work with people personally yeah good and that hit me to you know that that that hits home my my uh my dad was a alcoholic and he died from it and then that's a tricky one because it's not yeah

Alcohol is acceptable. It's acceptable and everyone accepts it and they all kind of like drinks a little too much. Drinks a little too much. You know, like, and you see it coming like a slow, slow motion train. It's a slow suicide. Yeah. And I used to, me and my dad were strange for many years and then we reconnected. It was talked about it a million times, but it was really nice. We became good friends. He was a very old school, tough guy. But in his last 10 years, he, there was a side of him that came out that I never knew when I was a kid. He was around and then we were estranged for a long time. But it was really like nice, but the drinking was always there.

It had always been. And I said to him, I was like, Dad, this is not good, dude. You're going to, like, let me try to get you into this treatment place. A million times he said, no, this is just how it is. And then he died one day. And it was, you know, from drinking. And I knew it was coming, but I thought maybe in like 20 years, it would be like he'd break down and go into the hospital and it'd be one of those, which is,

also kind of awful. Yeah. But he's had a really big night and boom. And it's sad. It's, I don't, it's, of course it's sad. And it was shocking and I, and I, and it was painful because it was, I didn't get to say or anything like that. But also it's weird to say. It's hard to say. Like, like, yeah, it was my dad. He had a big night and he, yeah, it was it. But also kind of the only way he would have gone out, which is crazy. And probably didn't want to have a long sickness and whatever. And that was not his style for sure. think, we don't know, but I think sometimes death can be your choice. Death is not that they're killing themselves, but in the moment, you're like, okay, I'm letting go. Also, within the same amount of

time, one of my oldest, oldest, bestest friends also died from opioids. So it was a small window where it really hit me in the face, but I knew it was coming because both of them wouldn't, they wouldn't listen. We'd all accepted that that's just how it was. There comes a point where you realize you can't save people. Yeah. You just, you can't. And that's not our job that each person kind of has to save themselves. You can inspire. You can be a light. You can inspire. But anything else, you know, I had to come to that place with my son, you know, for years and years, just trying this and that, this and that. And, you know, too much money, not enough money. You know, and, and finally I said, you know what, he's, I have to be prepared that I might lose him. This is his,

choice ultimately in the end only he can do it. And it's the pain and suffering of life is, is real, is real and, and none of us escape it. Yeah. No. The loss is a part of life. How we deal with it is our job. I mean, I could have easily, and I meet parents all the time who have lost their

children to opioid addiction and they just crumble. The guilt and the shame. And I'm, that's, no, no, no. It's that they would not want us to take on the guilt and shame for what they couldn't do, choices that they made. And it's a big lesson. That's deep. To not stop my life because my son made a choice that he wouldn't want that.

Nobody wanted to. He's out of pain. He's happy. There's no reason for me to suffer now. Yeah. But people need to hear that because it's hard. It's just one of it's hard to reconcile. It's just, it's hard to reconcile.

And every parent. would relate to that it's very it's it's there's not a word in the english language right for a parent losing a child yeah you can be an orphan you can be a widow right but there's no oh my god what do i call myself as a mother who's lost a child there's no word for it not supposed to happen well i'm sorry for your loss you know like i said i had 21 wonderful years with him you know yeah yeah that were i learned a lot he was my biggest teacher with breast cancer so i i i won't say who, but we just had a family member beat breast cancer. And now it feels like they've gotten so far with treating it. So it feels like it's, um, we felt optimistic. Good. We did. We felt really optimistic.

But it wasn't a sure thing. It wasn't early, but it wasn't late. Yeah. Yeah. You know, there was a moment there where we were all really, really worried. And not just one moment. It was a long. It was, but we just got the all clear a year ago. And then it was the anniversary a year and we got the all clear. And so like we all just celebrated. It was a big deal. This is where the, I mean, go ahead and ask the question, but the real work starts after because it's. Yeah.

So that's what I want to know is how after. And when did you, when did you beat it? It's, I've been 22 years cancer free now. It's incredible. Yeah. And it's, it's, yeah, what's the key? The key is understanding that cancer just doesn't happen to you. It just doesn't, oh, I got cancer.

Well, my family had cancer, so I'm going to get cancer. Each of us in our ancestral lines have a way that dis-ease is going to present itself. Okay. Some families, it's heart disease. Some families, it's diabetes. Some families, it's cancer. It's neural. Yeah.

Wherever that my father died of cancer, my grandmother died of cancer, my aunt died of cancer. So my stress and my life choices were so that my body had to cancer is, this is what really really like opened my eyes, is that in the medical community, they will tell you cancer starts when cells go bad. And they start there. And then they blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's all numbers. There's just tons of numbers and letters.

your HP2 negative 7 something, I don't know, all those things. And they start from there. But I was like, well, what makes cells go bad? Well, cells go bad when there's too much acid in the environment. A lot of us think that a cell, that the most important thing is the nucleus, it's actually the covering of the cell, because a cell will become anything that it is emerged in. That's why stem cells work. You can take a cell and you can put it in with other gallbladder cells and it will become a gallbladder.

So it's the environment. So if our environment is too acidic, a normal cell will get so in acid that it will go bang and it will become a cancer cell. Then your body goes, woo, whoa, okay, white blood cells, everybody, and it puts a tumor over the cancer cells. and it lets you know, hey, hey, you got cancer. And then you were supposed to go, oh, I need to change. Whatever it was is making my body acidic. Mine was number one stress. The thoughts you think, they're all sending chemicals.

Chemicals, stress is chemical. Stress is a real thing. It's a chemical reaction. And is it just stress from everything from? It's just you don't even know. Right. Just thinking things. How you think about your stress that, oh my God, my pants don't fit me.

right. That's it. So self-esteem is a part of that. Self-esteem is a huge part of it. How you think about yourself. Those and your relationships. And then your relationship, I'm not getting enough, but I'm not, oh, I'm afraid that they're going to, any fear, anything you spend. Toxicity is very, very, and then you're going to be drinking and that's acid. Then you're going to be, that's acid. Okay. You know, and then, and then you're, look at he's good. And, you know, and sugar, that's going to make me feel better. and you're just, we're just petri dishes of acid. Right. Inflammation.

A hundred percent. And you know it, you know it too. Water. We're supposed to drink so much of this. We're supposed to drink a gallon of this a day. I know. None of us do. This changed.

I try. You do. I do. I can tell you. I'm trying not to ask you to go to the bathroom, right? Yeah. You can go if you need to. I will.

Yeah. But yeah, but these are the things. But so cancer. once you then go, okay, I've got cancer. And then they cut it out, like they did, they cut mine out. Well, I need my responsibility, my ability to respond to my cancer was that, oh, let me look of the things that put me in that state and change it. All the doctors I had were like, well, we find that the ones that survive are the ones

that make a change in their work, in their food, in their exercise, and whatever. they're like, I'm changing in their mindset. That's what it is. And it can change. It changes your life for good. You're going to be an insufferable guy in 10 years telling people, you shouldn't drink that much coffee. You're going to be like me.

Because you will see that it works. Yes. Because I've seen the light. Because it works. You'll feel better. You'll love better. You'll love people better. You'll love yourself better.

That's the way. That's the only way you couldn't love better is to love yourself better. The best thing you can do for your partner is to love yourself and take care of yourself. I agree with that. And a wise man once told me that better is better. Yeah. We get used to better really fast and we don't get used to worse. Yes.

We will never go back to worse once we've had better. There you go. And so when you hear advice of something that could be done better, you should, you know, we're so closed off because we think we're, well, I'm doing it this way. And then someone says, there's a better way to do that, you know, if you do that. And then when you listen and you do discover better, never go back. It's very easy to adjust to better. We will hit our heads against the wall for a long time and go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know,

I shouldn't be doing this. I know, I know. And then something will happen. A health thing will happen. Yeah. Your body's like, okay, I tried to give you this signal, that one. Okay, it's finally going to have to be, you know, that high blood pressure, that whatever it is, that's, your body's going to warn you.

It's going to say, hey, we need to kind of make another decision. And the good thing is once you start making the other decision, your body can get rid of cancer. It can. If you put yourself, but it's really up to you. I don't recommend it for everybody, you know, but it's what you believe. If you're doing what you believe, like I believe I will never, ever have cancer because I will never get my self. To that point. Yeah.

I mean, 22 years is incredible. That's a real, that's incredible. That is true proof. All the medications they wanted me to take. I was like, no, I got this. Congratulations. That's incredible. And I knew that what I believed and felt,

I knew that every year that I was a survivor and that pretty soon after 20 years, I could go, look, this worked for me. This work. This is, I'm proof. Yeah. Be happy. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And then you go back to your work with a whole different, there's a different vibe. It's like you're bringing, it's a practice. It's a practice. It's the yoga. Yes, it is. Life is a practice. I don't ever get to a place where I'm like, I did it.

I've got this life diploma. No, it's just every day. It's like, right, if I start my day out great, chances are my day is going to be great. Yeah. And most of them probably really are. I love my life. That's one of my songs on the album is called Being Alive. It's like, and the chorus is, God, I love being alive.

Do you love this record? I love this record. I cannot wait for everyone to hear it. Isn't that a good feeling? And for me to sing it, it's such a good feeling. It's so amazing when you feel that way about a record. You don't always get that. There's been moments where every moment matters

and you were there for whatever reason to get here, but you get to that where you love the album and then you want to go play on, you want to go on stage. It's incredible. Just play and play. Just play and play. And if anybody wants to hear and join me, great. Not I'm just loving planet.

New record, the tour. Is there anything else you're excited about? I'm excited every day. I'm excited. I'm excited about, I'm at the point now where I used to like live, you know, years ahead of myself and never really spend time enjoying this. So I'm at the point now. It's like, yeah, I got lots of things coming.

I've got, and I know they're out there and they'll be, they'll come here when it's time. Yeah. You know, it, and I don't have, I don't have to go make it happen. I know that those things are out there. My desires are out there and they're coming to me. All I got to do is be in the place where I'm ready for them. And that's, that's a place of joy of appreciation.

Appreciation is huge. You can change any situation, any day, anything about yourself just by appreciation, just by, man, I really appreciate this. Talk with you. This has been an incredible, this, lifts me up. This fills me up my whole day. Me too. I haven't had this, you know, nice of a deep conversation in a long time. Well, I'm really stoked. I got to talk to you. Thanks for coming. I hope I see you many, many times. You will. I look forward to that. I'm going to come to the show.

Come on. Come on. Right on. Thank you. Thank you for watching artist friendly. If you like this episode, please make sure you hit the like button. You follow the channel and please share it with your friends we appreciate the support that is why this show exists because you listen to it thank you guys and we'll see you next time i don't want to have bad