Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Michael Bingham of Spiritual Cramp

Episode Date: April 22, 2026

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Michael Bingham of Spiritual Cramp. Last year brought us RUDE, the punk group’s second album, where self-deprecating humor, anxiety, and bruised love songs melded with their “hard mod” style. Their first U.S. headline tour, presented by AP, soon followed, where the band delivered ferocious cool night after night. Having wrapped the run in late March, the Spiritual Cramp frontman stopped by the Artist Friendly studio for an engaging conversation with Madden. He gets real about building a band from the ground up, scarcity mindset vs. abundance, and why after years of pushing, the momentum is finally starting to feel different.  ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Director/Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman ------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Good Charlotte. Good Charlotte is a band I started when I was 16 with my brother, and it is the reason I'm sitting here today. Thank you, Good Charlotte. We're going on tour. June 20th, San Diego County Fair, Delmar, California. And July 25th through August 30th, Good Charlotte and Avenged Sevenfold touring in the U.S. Starting July 25th, Thunder Ridge Nature Arena in Ridgedale, Missouri, an ending at BMO Stadium in Los Angeles, California on August 30th. If you are in the UK or Europe, we're coming to you this

November. November 8th, we are in Stockholm, Sweden. November 11th, we're in Munich, Germany. November 13th, we're in Brussels, Belgium. November 14th, Dusseldorf, Germany. In November 16th, we're in Amsterdam. November 17th, Paris, France. November 19th, London, UK. November 20th, Manchester, UK. Tickets are on sale now. We will see you at the show. Hey, what's up? It's Joel Madden here. And it's festival season.

And as you know, our friends at DWP always bring the best rock shows in the summer. First up in Daytona, Florida is welcome to Rockville from May 7th to May 10th. Lots of artist-friendly alumni are on this lineup. Everybody from architects, the offspring, Cahedon, Cambria, Simple Plan, Underoeth, a Treu, yellow card, switchfoot, and many more. Make sure to follow Revolver Mag for all your DWP updates, and we'll see you at the show. I got home from Torrier yesterday,

and I was hanging out with my wife, and I was like, we played this really beautiful show. Have you ever played the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco? Yes. You know that room. Yeah. Gorgeous, pre-earthquake room. Yeah, yeah.

And we sold it out, like, to the gills with a, 100 person guest list. Right. People were hanging off the friends. Every person in the room knew the lyrics. I had all my family in a reserved box. We all had our families in their reserved seats and every person in the room in the lyrics. And we played this beautiful show and we played so well.

Yeah. You know, and they all got to see it. They all got to see the thing that's happening right now in its most thoughtful form. Oh, bad times. I don't want to have bad. Yeah. Here we are. Well, thanks for coming.

Thank you for having me. This is amazing. Thanks. Yeah. How are you doing? I'm really good. I just got back yesterday from like 40-day tour. The rudest band in the world.

The rudest band in the world. That's me. The rudest guy you'll ever meet. You don't strike me as rude. I don't get rude. Yeah. Well, there's some. So sometimes we have a part of us.

We only really expose it. in our art. Yeah. And then there's the more front-facing part of us, which is a little bit more maybe reserved. Certainly. Than we are in our songs. Digging, you're just going right in.

Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. I definitely think that that is what happens with the band. I mean, you know, the band started and it was a little, that part of it, you know, that actually. One of the coolest band names ever, by the way. Rachel Grant, thank you. Rachel Graham is a great name.

Yeah. I have always loved it. We were looking for a band name and a friend was like, why don't you name it after this Christian death song? And I thought that was a cool idea. But yeah, when we started, it was much more lawless. I mean, it started in San Francisco. We were all running around the bars out like little gremlins, you know, causing trouble.

Very punk. Yeah. Very like, whatever. Let's just make some cool seven inches and cool guy everyone we meet. You know what I mean? Like the intention behind it was not what it is today. And what changed that? What changed the intention?

Yeah, what changed that attitude? Time. And you know, like, I think that I have always had like an ambition, right? Like we all have ambitions that are. I have them. I'm feeling that as I walk into the studio. I'm saying there's some ambition behind this. By the way, the quote about how anything built on a grand scale invites chaos.

Yeah. And I saw that. I just show so. That's kind of cool, right? It's extremely, yeah, it's very real. The artist that did that was revoke. Oh, that's revoke. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, cool. Nice. Very cool. That's cool that that's a revoke piece. One of the last great active, okay, I'll get in trouble because I'm not a graffiti guy. So all the graffiti people out there, just think of me as your dumb cousin. Yeah, me too, but they know that I'm the dumb cousin too. Okay, so just to preface it with that.

one of the real active graffiti artist rebels out there of our time, I'd say. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I don't think I'll get in trouble for saying that, but I always respected him. Yeah, MSK did a lot of work in San Francisco in the early 2000s. So we all knew who they were as well. They came up and rocked all those jagged letters all over the city. But yeah, I mean, you know, ambition, right, is just this thing that is inside of you, right? and it's like a, it's like a moving target

and you have a blindfold on. And you say, I want to go somewhere. And I think it's in this direction. And as you start chasing whatever it is that, you know, whatever it is inside of you tells you to chase, you know, that thing inside says, go and go and swing at this.

Go. You learn how to walk in that direction more efficiently and untie, you know, sometimes you do, things you tie your shoelaces together on accident. Right. And you know, you learn how to untie them. And then you learn how to get better shoes for walking. Right.

So I think that like some of those things, you know, like being a nasty punk band who like is going to get in fights everywhere you go. And, you know, we hung out. This band was born in, in the tenderloin in San Francisco. Yeah, it's a very crazy place. Yeah. Totally. Every time I've ever been there, I'm like, oh, oh my goodness.

Yeah. I feel like I'm in danger right now. Yeah. And like we played it for our first show is at this bar called the hemlock and like, you know. I know I know of that far. Yeah. I've never been in there. And you know, as a band has grown, like it's like I in particular as, you know,

the figurehead of the band have just, I've put a lot of effort into consciously trying to grow and consciously trying to get better at movement. And, and you know, a lot of those things don't, a lot of those rude, you know, those rude behaviors. They're not productive in the sense of going forward. Yeah. And with as little trouble as possible. Yeah. Because if you're solving small problems all the time, because you've created small problems in meaningless, you know, it's like to pick your battles kind of thing. Yeah. Well, if I can move through a room without making enemies the whole time, I can get through that room and probably be invited back and come, and actually come back and forth through that room.

Yeah. As long as I don't create enemies for myself. And I think exactly what you're saying. I'll be honest with you. To me, I was like, oh, this is a very cool band. And I have no idea. I idea how this conversation is going to go. but that's also like, you came on.

Oh, dude. So it's exciting for me. Yeah. And then the first thing we start talking about is like growth mindset, being more productive. Like, that's my language. Yeah. All I fucking care about. Yeah.

You know, I live in L.A. Like, I know what you guys are doing. Cool. And I'm inspired by it. Thanks, man. I mean, like, truly. Thank you. You know, I mean, I don't mean to get like to, like, businessy.

But like, they say that diversification is the key to wealth. Yeah, it is actually. Yeah. Everyone listening. Yeah. Like really, it really is. Like, I would love to just be the singer to a band and be like, I don't know. This success just happened to me.

And all I do is like make my little songs. Yeah. It's not the truth for anyone. Yeah. Doesn't matter what they say. Yeah. To do this well, you have to try. You have to care.

You have to organize. You have to try to do better. You have to look at like, doesn't matter. I'll care what any band says. I'm not. It's super critical when I hear a band talking, oh, fucking care,

blah, but I'm like, well, I wish. Be successful in this as a, if you're making money doing this, you have organized yourself to a degree. Yeah.

That's more organized than a street punk band that hasn't put a record out, that'll never put a record out that you'll never hear of unless you saw them at that show with those other band. So you have to organize

to be successful at this. So let's just be real about it. it. It's totally. You know, and like you're doing that, but I'm saying there are sometimes you hear people and I'm like, well, that's a nice idea. Yeah. That you don't care. That sounds tremendous. I'm wholly jealous of someone who's like, yeah, I don't know, this is, but I just, that's not my experience. Also, not true. I think it can happen. It will accidentally happen to someone on the first record. And then sustaining it and in real growth, you know, those, and longevity. Takes organization. Yeah, totally. And, you know, I know what you guys are doing, you know, with all of this and, and, you know, Madden Management. Yeah, all the companies. Everything. And it's like that is, if I can even scratch the surface of that. Well, you can. I'm trying. I'm desperately trying. I'm desperately trying. I've been desperately trying for 30 years. Totally. So that's how it feels. You know, because you move to LA, right, and you start to meet, like, people who have success. Yeah. You know, as, as it does happen. And, um,

that is the vibe that I get, that it is just always a constant, you know, we're always just pushing a rock uphill, right? And it's a moving target, man. Like, it is. I would love to just at one point be like, hey, that was, that was great. I'm going to go become a postman, but it's that thing inside that's like, no, just keep, just keep walking. It's keep going in the direction. It's absolutely the scariest choice. And then, and then you get more, more comfortable living in that space. Yeah. But I agree with you and you're speaking my language.

Honestly, as like someone who is, you know, much like yourself, I actually didn't know where you came from and then hearing you say, you're from Maryland. From Maryland. You know how it is around these parts, right? You're going to meet someone. You're like, I wonder if they have rich parents. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's L.A. And that doesn't mean it's not bad or it's not good, you know, people can come from wherever they want. But, you know, hearing you say, like, you know, I didn't come from much. I didn't either. And, you know, even getting to come into your home, you know, whatever you call this. This is home. Yeah, yeah.

Getting to come into your home, I am, how do I say this? It's exciting to me to be able to even be able to sit in this chair with you. Yeah. And kind of be like, oh, we're like, I'm sort of speaking the same languages as someone who has done a lot. And that's really exciting. I mean, you know, it's like you said, it's like a never-ending thing, I think. But yeah, it's exciting to be here and to hear you say all that. I'm like, you say living at the edge of your comfort zone.

I'm like, cool, I'm doing that. Yeah, it's always a little scary. Oh, my, I live in fear. And it is, it is all about how you manage that. Remember the fear, though. The fear is a healthy respect for what's at stake. Yeah. Right?

The fear is going all in. Yeah. But you know you have aces. if you're a real entrepreneur, you know you have aces. I know I have them everywhere. I know I have when I go all in, I know what I have. You know Tom Brighan who works as stereo or does stereo gum?

Yeah, yeah. He wrote an article about us one time. And in the article, he mentions many times about how what we're doing looks effortless. Yeah, yeah. It does. And I,

that's how good you are. I was like, bro, you have no idea how much we talk about. You know, it's like every moment during the set. You got to remember. Even the size of the amps, do they look good? You know, every piece of it.

Every detail matters. Every detail. Anyone says some people sell chaos, some people sell this, some people sell that. They're all selling a feeling that people get and it's a good thing. So I'm not saying, but you have to be precise enough to carry the show so that the chaos can happen. So even if you're not planning in between or whatever, it doesn't matter. It's being able, you did write a set list. You did look at where the fucking amps were going.

You did decide on the lighting. You did decide on all the, to whatever level of detail you were involved in or not as an artist, you did make a decision. And then you constructed a show so that even if nothing's planned, you still constructed a show to contain the chaos. So that it could happen that people could experience it. Yeah. And otherwise, you wouldn't have gone on on time.

You wouldn't have blah, blah, blah, you wouldn't have blah, blah, blah. So I don't care. You could argue about it and lots of details. But at the end of the day, you built something, even if you're not planning the excitement and whatever happens on stage happens, you still built something to support that happening. Yeah. And you have to do it at an elite level. Yeah.

Past 500 people. Yeah. That's what I do. If you want to keep it, you know, because you learn so much. going from zero to 500 tickets. Right? That's where you really, and if you can get up to 500,

you know, what was it? A Green Days manager once told me, he said the road from zero to 500 is like 10 times longer than the road from 5 to 2,000. Yeah, way, way longer. And then by the time you're at 500,

and you did learn what you were supposed to learn, which is what you're talking about, like how to design something that is elite, then you will grow. Then it will go from, 5 to 2000. If it stops growing at 500, something,

you got to look at something and go, what are we, we need to pick this to the next level. Something's stopping us. And there is something about that. Totally. But you're right. There's zero to 500 is the hardest.

Those are the trenches you're digging. Yeah. It's a mindfulness, though, that it takes. Yeah, well, you're talking about thoughtfulness. And you have to combat self-esteem. You have to combat fear. I think it's all self-esteem driven,

but like anxiety and all that stuff. have to figure out what part of that is my old programming from poverty or being picked on at school or whatever. And then what part of it is I'm actually misunderstanding as a bad thing, which might be a good thing. It might be my level of focus. Yeah. And your ambition to succeed and do well and grow. Yeah, yeah. Right. Which is, you know, I have a big one of those. Thank God. It's great to hear. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, some days, some days, some days, but some days you hear the voice. wrong. You know what I mean? You hear it as something that's saying like you have a lot to be afraid of, you know, and that, you know, it is, for me, it is a conscious choice to wake up every

day and say, okay, like, like you're saying, like, am I actually afraid of this or am I just, do I deeply care? And, and I have to be thoughtful of that. Because my, my default mode is a poverty mode. Yeah, yeah, yeah, my default, my default mode is, is, uh, scarcity, I have a scarcity mindset. Scarcity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. And, and, and, and the, but, but you know, you know, you know, those people who you meet in your life who they're like, yeah, man, like, it's all good. Like, don't worry about it. And, and everything's fine. And that they, it's abundance mindset. Yeah. And you watch, you know, like, like attracts like. And, you know, that scarcity mindset of clinging to things and feeling afraid that you're going to lose it. It's like,

that attracts that. Yeah. But it's like, how do you shift your mindset to abundance mindset when all you know is that I got to figure out I'm going to get some cereal this morning. You know what I mean? Or how I'm going to keep the cereal I have.

Yeah, yeah. How do I keep the cereal, right? My fruity pebbles with marshmallows. Yeah. My favorite one. Yeah, yeah. The off brand. Yeah.

I'll tell you how, I think, I did it with a good, coach. Mentorship. Coaching and mentorship. Okay, so first thing that comes to mind is who I hang out with. Yeah, man. You're the average of everyone. We are the average of the group.

Absolutely. I don't care what anyone says. Yeah. And at some age, you start to look at that. And if you don't, you're not growing up. Yeah. And it sounds harsh. It does.

Because it is harsh to have to be like, oh man, you're not cutting it anymore. You're not cutting it. Your habits don't align. Your goals don't align. Your values don't align. What's interesting, too, is if you set your mind to your goals and you're a goal-oriented person, that stuff will fall away naturally anyways. Yeah.

And so I always say to, like, let's say, like, I don't want to say my kids because it feels like they would hate it. They hate it when I, like, use them as an example because the kids are fucking cool. They're smart. And they're very, like, edgy kids. They've had interesting lives. Yeah, sure. So they're pretty mature.

Right. And they don't want to hear me talk about, like, preach anything. But I would say, like, to a young person, such as my kids, I say, you'll deal with that as long as you can. Right. And then when you can't deal with it anymore, that person, you won't. And it'll fall away. How much time do you want to give it? Right.

If you aren't ready to say, hey, this ain't cutting it. Let them hang around. It's okay. And they'll tell you can't handle it. Right. That's the thing too about music and artists and this entertainment business is we're all just fucking people. So we're all going through the same thing as anyone listening to this. Like you're going through some relationship stuff or some job stuff or like I could name five topics and that's likely going to cover what any of us could be going through.

Yeah. Because we're all the same. Yeah. If it's a relationship, right? Well, I don't understand why. He's not honest with me. I'm like, well, you'll deal with it until you can't. Yeah.

And at some point, you're going to wake up and go, I don't want to deal with this anymore. And you'll move on. Yeah. And instead of trying to force someone to be the way you want them to be. Yeah. And then also there's a mindfulness to it where it's like, I just don't know why they don't love me. Totally. And I go, well, why do you need them to love you?

Well, then you can control everything. Well, think about that. That's the question I've learned to ask myself when I can't get what I want from someone. Like, why don't they love me? Yeah. Why isn't it perfect the way I'm like to me? Okay. Why do I need them to love me? Because I want to be loved.

Okay. Yeah. Well, do you love yourself? Yeah. Well, if you love yourself, it could be enough. Yeah. To sustain you long enough until you meet someone who loves you. Yeah, yeah.

Right. And you could take that into business. Why won't this company sign me or choose me or why do you need them to? Because I want this. And I'm like, well, that's not the only option in the world. but it's the one in front of you right now. But if you find your confidence and you really believe in yourself and you can't get there together,

and like say you're at the table trying to make a deal and they won't give you what you want, you can always walk away. And then go look for it somewhere else. Right. I got to decide if we're going to negotiate first. So I go, let's see where we're both at. Yeah.

Can we, is there even really? Too far apart? Yeah, yeah, totally. And most of the time I know I'm dealing with someone who's probably probably going typically the normal route, which is let me just see how much. And you can see if I can. And they haven't thought it through. So what you're mostly dealing with most of the time. Everyone's like buy as low as possible, sell as high as possible.

Very old way of thinking. Yeah, yeah. Instead of like value. The partnership and real partnership and synchronicity and stuff. Totally. If you spell it out at the beginning of the deal, this is kind of. of the style of deal I'd like to do. And this is where I'm kind of thinking, if that's too far from where you're at, totally cool. Yeah. That's always kind of the approach. And it's very real, it's very

honest. Yeah. It's like actually where I'm at. Yeah. And I think beginning, middle and end. I always think beginning, middle, and end of deal, right? And I always think if things go sideways at this stage, is there a caveat and is there a lever? But we are all somewhere, however far of a distance we are away, from freedom in that capacity financially. So then I try to measure how far away I am. And then I find myself being closer and closer with each year. Yeah. If I just keep my eye on it.

Because you're looking at it. Because I'm looking at it. And you're talking about it. And that's it. Yeah. It's not even like a plan or I find myself more and more in line with freedom. Right. As I look at it.

Me too. And I continue to look up at it. It's just painful to look at sometimes because it's maybe not painful. scary to look at because I don't know I don't know about you but I learned that you just if you just remain silent about your problems you know you don't talk about it and be like hey like I'm in credit card debt I don't know what to do about X Y or Z if you're saying that to people somewhat especially if you're like learning how to surround yourself with the right people yeah one of those people is going to be like hey come over here sit down look at this and I did

yeah a guy wait what did you say well this is what I did look Check this out. Totally. Here's the game. Yeah. And if you really are truly, if you really do want to get yourself, you want to increase the awareness of that pillar and learn and grow, you'll listen. It's just simple. It's called confirmation bias.

What is that? So we have a bias to find what we're looking for. Oh. So if I believe that life is full of our chain, suffering, hardship. Totally. And people who don't like me and things don't work out for me. Yeah. And trouble along every, like there's a problem everywhere I go.

Yeah. We'll find it. Yeah, you're going to self-fulfill that prophecy. It's that simple thing of a, look for the red cars. Oh, there's red cards everywhere. Totally. Look for the blue cards. All those blue cards are right.

We go through, as someone put it as simple to me as in the woods, we're looking for the bears or the berries. Right. It's a thin line, right? So we're our bias to believe, and it's pretty deep. It's like, if I'm a person that I just can't find love. And I really truly believe that in my core. There's a lot of work in that that you have to do to get to the bottom of your belief of yourself.

Yeah. But at the simple top level, it's like the confirmation will be there every day. Yeah. And so if I'm looking for answers, I'll find answers. If I'm looking for friends, I'll find friends. if I'm looking for opportunities, I'll find them. And as we find them, we get confirmed in that bias. So it's like that builds momentum.

Right. And so the beginning of changing your, whatever your bias is, is the hardest part. It's not. It is the hardest. Well, because, you know, if all you've known is you're in the woods full of bears or whatever, like if that's all you've ever known, what I think is, I think it really takes a, I don't want to, Because anyone can do anything, right? Anyone can be an astronaut.

Well, you know, that's a little hyperbole, but like, if anyone can do anything, right? If you are, if you have enough tenacity, but I think that you said it's like starting to break that confirmation bias is kind of the hardest part. What I did is I searched for people because I didn't really have a lot of family, right? And so I just, I like found people who would be like, hey, like, you are worth something.

Yeah. I met this guy. He, his name is Stuart, and he'll probably listen to this. He started spiritual cramp with me. He was the first person to ever be like, where is Stuart now? Stuart lives in San Francisco. He left the band because he didn't want to, you know, be in a full time touring. Yeah, because, you know. That's the life. It's tough life. It's tough life. But, you know, he runs a very successful company. Now he's run a bunch of very successful companies. And before I met, or even before I met him, he's, you know, built these big companies and, you know, sold them all off. And he was the first person to ever take me aside and be like, hey man, like, what you have is called leadership capabilities. He was like, all the people,

you just have never assembled people and explained that you were going to be the leader. And I, I searched for that guy my whole life. Yeah. You know what I mean? A good coach. Totally. And now after meeting him and learning that, He was right. Yeah. I am good at leadership. Now all I do is search for people like that. And, you know, that's all you should search for.

All my friends feel like that. Yeah. It's something like that. Yeah. All my friends feel something like either a coach or a cheerleader. Yeah. I would also throw people that you are now doing that. You are mentoring.

And I am that. You are that for them now. I try to define that in every relationship. Right. There's only three roles for me. This is just me. Anyone listening, you don't have to subscribe. I either go, I'm a coach here, I'm a cheerleader here, or I'm a player here. Right.

And sometimes there's coach players. Yeah. Sometimes I'm on the field playing and I'm coaching. So, yeah, so I feel that way. Yeah. So I try to quietly in my head, I always think like, what am I in this relationship? I'm a cheerleader. Right.

I'm just cheering them on. Right. I'm just trying to get them to keep going because they have it. They don't need a coach necessarily. my wife. And the truth is, is that you're like, maybe you're two out of three in every relationship. Sure, sure. Maybe you're being coached.

You're a player. Maybe you're a coach and a player. A cheerleader and a player. Maybe you're a cheerleader. This is my wife. In my mind, I think that way. Yeah. I think like, I got to be a coach or a cheerleader or a player.

Yeah. Sometimes I got to be both. But I need to make sure that I'm doing one of three and nothing else. Right. Because if I'm just an angry fan, yelling my thoughts, you should have done that play. Yeah. A couch fucking spectator. Couch protester. I'm no good

to the fucking equation. So if I can't participate in a productive way, I just step out. Well, I could just go play some video games. Yeah. You know, there's other things to do. If I'm going to be a part of something where I'm like, I'm not contributing, about being contributed to.

And we got to be honest with ourselves. If he's a better player in this situation, he should run the ball. Yeah, you run the ball. And I'll just cheerlead you. I'll just be your cheerleader. There's a thing with that. Some people can't stop when they say get out of your own way. Yeah. It's a little bit that. It's where are we getting in our own way because we aren't stopping and going like, I should not be running the ball on this. Right. Where are you guys at in the music? We're in the middle of the baby.

Middle of a, are you in the middle of an album? I know, you man. I was just, yeah, well, we just, just released the record in November. Oh, good. Fresh. Yeah, yeah, totally. Went to Europe with Hives. Well, that's cool. Yeah, great tour. Went there immediately after the record came out.

We took a break for the holidays. And do you celebrate the Christian holiday? Oh, you've never seen a, you've never seen a more celebratory little elf than me. You like Christmas? I love Christmas. My favorite, too. I grew up without Christmas. I did. I did grow up without like really much of a...

Why? Poor family. Poor you. If my parents were just, you know, busy working on whatever it was that they had in front of them. Dealing with life. Yeah, totally, man. Yeah, mine too. I get it. I just lucky enough that now I...

Did you have birthdays? I was born on a day and... But did you have birthday parties? I did not have a lot of birthday parties. No. How's your birthday? I work very hard to celebrate it. and put my best foot forward every year.

Good. That's nice. Yeah. It took me a long time. My wife helps with that. My wife helps with that as well. I find myself to hide a little bit on my birthday. I have to actively take steps.

It's weirdly sad every year for me. Yeah, yeah. I feel weird too for sure. Like I never got a lot of birthday parties, maybe ever. Yeah. And I always wanted one. That was the thing I had to come. I had to come to terms with like,

I got to a place where was like, like fuck birthdays, I don't want to fucking party. And I still find myself saying that. Yeah. But I realized it was like, as a kid, I wanted, like, so-and-sselves having a birthday party. They're having a birthday party. They're having a birthday party. Sounded awesome.

And then my wife is, like, every few years, I'll let her put something together. Yeah. She's very sweet. And my kids are sweet. And then sometimes I find myself going like, I don't want to do anything. I just want to go. I just need to work. I just want to work.

Yeah, yeah. Totally. It's weird. Yeah. Christmas, though, I've allowed myself to. We love Christmas. Yeah. I love Christmas. My wife, again, my wife is someone who has, you know, put a lot of sweat equity into Michael Bingham. Yeah. Because she nurtured. She saw a lot of potential. Yeah. And how long you guys been together? 21 years. Really? 21 years. Yeah. That's great. Long time. 20 years for us this year. congratulations. We were right on the same. Yeah. So you guys, 2005. Yeah, something like that.

That's great. What's her name? Her name is Barbara. Nice. Yeah, yeah. She's a hair stylist. Cool. She was actually the catalyst us moving down here four years ago. She said, I think I can do celebrity hair in LA. And I was like, yeah, whatever. She's a cool hairstylist. Oh, yeah. She does Hillary. Oh, cool. She does Hillary. And now they're like very. She knows Matt. She knows Matt. Amazing. Do you know Matt? Me and Matt are supposed to be friends. We're on our way to becoming friends. You've got to be friends with him. Yeah, yeah.

Like me and Matt are best friends. Yeah, okay. That's your, that's your A one. That's my guy. Yeah, cool. And what we figured out, and Nicole and Hillary are best friends.

Cool. And what we found is actually, me and Hillary are more alike in the, are where we sit in the world. Cool. And Matt and Nicole are more alike. I've never met him. Oh, my God.

Barb and Hillary have become. very, very close. That's nice. Great. I mean, Hillary is amazing. Yeah, yeah. Their family is incredible. Yeah.

The first time I met Hillary was at a birthday party and I looked down and those people, it was Hillary Duff. And I was like, oh, not who I expected you to be, but. Yeah. Hello. I know you. Yeah. You know.

And then you get past that and, you know, incredible person. Yeah. Immediately. Incredible family. Her and Matt are. Yeah. Incredible parents. Yeah.

Incredible people. But yeah, so Barb was like, I want to move down here. And she's always been the catalyst to my growth. Yeah. She's, same with Nicole. She's always like, we have to do this thing. And I'm like, why would we do that? I'm comfortable with where I'm at.

We fear change. Yeah, we fear change. And she dragged me down to L.A. And four years later, I'm like, she's like, say the line. And I'm like, I have experienced lots of growth. And my life is much better because of this move to L.A. That's right. You're like, you hated L.A. before you moved to.

I hated it. Like a job. Yeah. I hated it like a job. They're all fake. They're all fake. The town's fake. It's actually what I, what my wife taught me.

Yeah. Is she from L.A.? She's actually, not that I want to sit here and talk about Nicole all day, but. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. But I do. Why is. We want to talk about our wives.

We love our wives. She was born in Oakland. Oh. And was there her first, you know, her. her first like five years. Respect. And then she was adopted. Oh.

And she moved down here with her parents. Got it. With Lionel and Brenda. Got it. And then she grew up in L.A. And so L.A. is home. But her first few years of her life were in Oakland. She still remembers Oakland.

Yeah. Okay. And she was, you know, she came down here at an old enough age where she has like formative memories with, you know, her grandparents and, stuff in Oakland. And so she does have like Bay Area roots that she got real roots there.

Yeah. But she grew up in L.A. So she loves L.A. and she used to tell me because I'd be like, oh, fuck L.A. Everyone's fake. I'm moving. When I first met her, I was like, I'm moving back to the East Coast. Same. I was like, get out of here. And she's like, no, like, don't, that's bullshit. All that everyone's fake bullshit. Yeah. He's like, there's great people here. Oh, the best. There was a moment in my life where I was like, all my success, my idea of myself was completely wrapped up in the success of the band. And I, that was, if I'm being honest, that was a, that was my measurement of myself. Of course. Yeah. And we were like, it had flatlined. Like, now if I zoom out and go, yeah, well, there was MP3s, people were getting music offline, they'd stopped buying

records. Spotify hadn't really didn't develop until 2015, 2016 was when that really took root and became like the standard. And then 2018, 2019 was when it really popped off where like you're measuring your monthly listeners and this and that. But there was no metrics for for success in music unless you had a hit song or whatever. And we were like 12 years into a career of like having hits and doing this and doing that. And then it was just like flatlined. And, in my mind it was over. Yeah, yeah, of course. And all that fear that I was running away from.

Yeah, yeah. It was like, well, it happened. Yeah, I'm going to lose it all. And that was it for you. And, of course. And she was like, we had a real moment. She was like, snap out of it. Yeah.

How are you defining yourself? How are you measuring yourself? Because I don't see you as that. I don't, I don't care if you ever do another fucking thing. Right. With that. Right. In fact, I hope you don't.

Yeah, yeah. Let's move to a farm. Better for you that you don't. Let's fucking move to a farm. What do you want to do? Like, let's go far away from this. Wherever you're going to be happy, because that's all I care about. But it really bums me out that you would define yourself with that.

Yeah. And she was like, you need to go and talk to somebody and you need to figure out what you want to live for. Yeah. And it was like, holy shit. It was the first time anyone said to me, like, I don't need you. you to be a success in the world. Yeah. You're good enough.

Right. And that was the beginning of like my real, I think, like personal growth. Yeah. And that's what like an amazing partner does. Yeah. I mean, you know, they say like when you hold sand, if you grasp it, it'll all fall out of your hand. But if you hold it gently, you know, it's like,

what you're talking about with career stuff. It's like, you know, it's something starts to change. And you know, it's not like you want it to be. And you're like, well, if I just grab this, this is, tight as I can. And then a bunch of the sand's gonna fall out. And, but it doesn't feel like that. Right. In the moment, you're just like, you're like, it feels so scary and desperate. You know, whatever that is, right? You know, any sort of change, you know, I got fired from my, from my job in 2023 because, you know, I had, I had like a real job before I was in music.

What job was it? I worked as a project manager at a tech company. Oh, wow. Yeah. That I, I like Photoshop to degree to get in. Oh, wow. Yeah, I did. You don't have a degree? I do not have a degree. Did you go to college? I did not go to college.

I did not go to college. I heard of die. Entry level job moved up, like, figure it out how to move in the ecosystem. And then in 23, you know, we got, we got signed to a label. We got the other, they were putting some money into the band. We had a great agent, awesome manager, tour in, tour in, start building. Start moving from zero to five.

Yeah. You know, you're meeting me at, like, like, like seven, you know, right? But you guys are happening. Spiritual cramp is to me like one of the coolest bands out. Let me say this to you. Thank you. It's fucking cool.

I appreciate that. So cool that I was like, what's he going to be like? Which is a cool thing. Trust me. A little nerve for me. A standoffish, standoffish closed off.

Yeah, yeah. That's me. You guys are happening. Oh, I appreciate it. As you could. And I just love the music.

It's got all the right. Fucking great. It's like everything I love about old music, but it's not trying to be old, which is what most bands get wrong when they call to the past. Like I think I can hear influences without like, it's not a parody of some, but there's all the stuff I love,

whether it's the clash or this or that. There's stuff in there that I'm like, the ingredients is really good. It's like, if you're eating a meal, it'd be like really all your favorite stuff. That's what it is supposed to be. Yeah. It's real.

It's supposed to be that too. It's like, it's, I really think, I think you guys are really one of those bands that have a really bright, fun future. Thank you. With the kind of music you make. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, you know, I feel that way too.

Yeah. You know, some days, you know, and then others, I'm like, this is not going to work. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. But yeah, I mean, thank you so much. Yeah, for sure. It's really fun to create something in the image of what you think should be in the world.

You know, like all those things that you just said about how it's like, you know, we're pulling from, you know, Sham 69 and we're pulled, but we're also pulling from block party. I love that reference. And trying to put those two things together and then offer it up in a way that looks, feels, tastes, and smells fresh. Yeah. It's such a fun project. Yeah.

So it's great to hear that, you know, that it hits. It hits for you. It does hit, yeah. And, you know, nothing happens overnight. No, no, no. It doesn't happen overnight. But we just got back from. You know, I literally just got home from a 40-day tour yesterday.

Oh, wow. As you know, the Roodest Band of the World Tour. Yeah. It's working. Yeah. I was out there. You can feel it. Oh, there's people.

You can feel whether it's electric and when it's not. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. I mean, it definitely, we were all out there and we were like, you know, we were in Toronto and we thought, I bet there'll be more people here next time. Guarantee it. You know what I mean?

That's what I mean. In L.A., S.F., D.C., New York, all of these shit. shows that it really did feel like different, but you know, one day at a time, right? As our, as our ANR says, who I am in love with our ANR. What label are you on? We're on a record label called Blue Grape. Cool. Dave Wrath, who is, he was head of ANR at Roadrunner for like 25 years.

Yeah. He started his own label. And, you know, he works very, he and I work very closely together. And he always says to me, says, one fan at a time, Mike. and man he said that when we first started working together three years. And I was like I was like no that's not how it happened

and three years later I'm like man you were right this is one fan at a time brother. But yeah oh yeah I got fired 23 I got fired in 23 from your tech job. My tech job and my wife was like and I was like

because you know I did the we were doing the band part time it was like this cool guy seven inch and my wife was like huh it's time to jump with both feet. So it feels like the universe is telling you it's time to jump off this cliff, cannonball, or stop talking about it.

Yeah, either shit or get off the pot. Shitter or get off the pot. And it has been three years. And I have. Fucking great. And I'm like, what a good partner. And I opened my eyes and I'm like talking to you.

You guys are like best friends. Yeah. I have never had a friend closer on this earth than that woman. Where's she from? She's from Petaluma. Where's Petaluma? It's about 45 minutes north of San Francisco. Oh, cool.

Yeah. Bay Area. Yeah, she's Bay Area. Yeah. Is she a punk rocker? No. Oh, wow. Oh, no, no.

She's like a, she, she is by proxy. Right. She knows everyone. Right, yeah. You've been with you forever. She's in the middle of it. But no, she likes, actually, she's a little bit punk. She loves your band.

Punk adjacent. She's punk adjacent for sure. Yeah, I'm punk adjacent. I would argue that you're punk. I've had my moments. The first time I ever heard of like, unseen. Yeah, yeah, my brother's shirt. Was your brother's shirt. And I remember being like, he loved them. He loved like street punk bands. Yeah. All those bands of casualties. Yes.

All those bands. He, he knew them all. He would go. Yeah. It was funny. He loved all that. So you're a punk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she, she likes, she was the first person ever showed me the killers. Oh, cool. I love the killers. Yeah. I, I didn't like the killers when, when I heard it. Right. And now, now I'm like, this is what I want my band. To Durand Duran for you. I just, I was, I was too busy listening to the casualties. Right. You know, you like that real shit. Oh, yeah.

I was way too punk. You're dirty. Or anything. Yeah. And, and, and, and it was uncool. And I couldn't be uncool. Totally. And now I'm like the most uncool guy in the world.

I think spiritual cramp is, I would put it on like a lot of my lists, my top lists. I love. It's amazing. And we're, and this to me, like this shows a music show. Yeah, yeah. And at the core of the show, like, oh, when we're, started to now, I've always just wanted bands to have a place that's substantial to like come and share their music with people because there's just not that many places these days.

Yeah. To really actually get a good look. Yeah. From music fans. Yeah. And everything's kind of like really quick hit, turn and burn press. Yeah. And so with the big platforms, there's not a lot of places you can go to like share your

music these days. And so when we started this show, the ultimate goal for me was to have. have the biggest music show in the world where musicians could come and music fans could get a sense of them. Sure. And a lot of people might be discovering your band like that are listening. So for me, it was like, you're one of those bands I would put on like, share with your friends kind of band. You know what I mean? I think a lot of people feel that way. That's probably why you're getting, you're feeling that right now, the energy of that. Because you're a real share of bands sharing band. We were a band's band for a while.

People would always say this sentence to me that I really didn't like. Yeah. They would be like, dude, I just wish you guys were bigger. Right. And I'm like, yes, I do as well. And it does, it's starting to feel. You're getting bigger. Like that.

You're bigger. Yeah. You are bigger. Getting done with that tour. Yeah. I walked in the door and I said to Barb, I was like, there's something happening out there. That was a success. Yeah.

Yeah. And that is, yeah, ready for more of it. You know, I hope so. I hope we can. No, I'm telling you. I hope so. It's good to hope. Yeah.

But the bullets left the gun. Yeah. The ship is sailed. Oh, I hope so. Yeah. I'm telling you right now. Yeah. The thing is doing, it's doing what it does, which is, again, like it's organic.

So it's like watching a plant grow sometimes. Yeah. But before you know it, it's a tree. And then before you know, there's apples on the tree. Yeah. And like the thing grows. I think that you guys have, you make good music. As long as you make good music.

Yeah. And you can put on a good live show. Yeah, we're a good live band. Yeah, you are. That is one thing we've worked really hard. And bands like you. Oh, like people in bands? Like bands.

Like you won't have, it won't be hard for you guys to book tours and to get opportunities. And like it's going to get easier and easier you'll see because you guys are a cool band. So any bill you guys are on. is an improved bill, I think. Oh, thank you so much. You've made a good name for yourself. Like, in the sense of like, it's a cool band, the music's good, it looks good on a bill.

Right. You know what I mean? Right. Like, people are like, oh, they know about that. There's no question, dude. It's a good band. Yeah. You know what I mean?

You know the band Deft Heaven? Yes. Yeah, yeah. So their guitar player, Carrie, is like one of my best friends. And he is such a great wealth of knowledge. and, you know, we spend so much time talking about this stuff. And he says that being in a band is like building a monument of yourself. Yeah.

For people to stare at. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, that's really funny. Which is so funny. It's true, though. But, you know, it is. You're building this thing that you're like, look, this is cool, right? And it's my chin.

It's, yeah, yeah. Like, how does my chin look? How does my chin look? Are the glasses right? Does the sweater fit well? and you know when you're making the music right like all I can do is be like well what do I think it's cool like I think it's all you can do Joe Strummer's cool and I love the specials and I love Interpol and how do I take Paul Banks and Joe Strummer and Terry from the specials and make them this thing

that is mine and then you know you erect the statue it's like getting to choose your parents. Totally. Yeah. Which is, you know, my dream, which is my dream. God bless our parents. God bless our parents. But but yeah. And so it's, I mean, that's just like to have you say that, you know, I mean, it's real. I appreciate it. Yeah. I mean, you know, the work was done. You did the work to get to this place where now I wasn't there three years ago. I wasn't there two years ago. Sure. I probably became really aware of your band the last year. with everyone else. Sure.

Right. So I'm a pretty good template or like a good test group. Like I'm a I'm a consumer in that sense. Totally. And I see it and I go like, oh, that band's coming up. That's when I see it coming when I see a band coming. Sure, sure. And then I'm like, oh, check their music out.

And then I'm like, and then I hear all the young people and they're cool, like Anna from Alternative Press. Right, right. The coolest. Yeah. She's got great music. taste. She's in it. She fucking like music first. She's a real one. She's in it. You know, that's why alternative press is cool. Right, right. It was a cool magazine when I was growing up.

And then it went, you know, as magazines do, they go through their cycles. And, you know, since she took it over, there's a culture there because the person in charge is a music, person who only fucking cares about music. Yeah. So she's living it. Yeah. That's also why artists like her. Because when she shows up, she doesn't need to be perfect. She doesn't need to be anything other than real. And she's herself.

Totally. And so like when she points at a band and goes like, I'm like, I heard of them. And then I see Anna's into it. Right. I'm like, oh, this is the shit right here. Yeah. And so like those are good signs. Right.

You know, and I've been around long enough to know those kinds of things. Yeah. But like the trajectory is like more like it's a lock as long as you guys keep showing up. It's a lock. We're locked in. It's a lock. I appreciate that.

But as long as you show up. As long as you show up. Yeah, yeah. I'll show up. And you do the work. Yeah, yeah. And you don't like blow your own thing up. I'm excited for you guys.

I think you guys are really such a great band. I am enjoying it. Good. I got home from a tourier yesterday and I was hanging out with my wife and I was like, we played this really beautiful show. Have you ever played the Great American Music Hall? San Francisco. Yes.

You know that room? Yeah. Gorgeous, pre-earthquake room. Yeah, yeah. And we sold it out like to the gills with a hundred person guest list. Right. People were hanging off the friends. Every person in the room knew the lyrics.

I had all my family in a reserved box. We all had our families in their reserved seats and every person in the room new lyrics. And we played this beautiful show and we played so well. Yeah. You know, and they all got to see it. They all got to see the thing that. that's happening right now in its most thoughtful form where they were like, whoa, like when did you become that?

We got to treat them all so well. We had a family green room and you know that it was just this great gorgeous moment. What a night. And I got home yesterday and I was with my wife and I was like, I just, we were sitting there. I was playing video games and we're hanging out on the couch all day. And you know, the sun is shining and we're recalling the night in San Francisco.

and even the wonderful Los Angeles show that we played the day after. And I was just overwhelmed with joy. That's great. You know, because these are the problems I begged God for four years ago. I was like, dude, please just like even make it so that we could play like a 300-cap room.

So yeah, I am trying to enjoy it. Gratitude is the quickest pathway to true happiness. Yeah. Are you a gratitude list guy? You know what? I probably am in the like actual, actual, I am a gratitude guy, but it's, it's been such a practice that it's now just a state

of being. And so like every morning and every night, I always have at least one moment where I look up or I look out. And I see, I zoom out. And it might be, I'm like, usually I'm in my driveway or I'm out in the back area of our house. Usually like in the morning when I have coffee, So I'm lucky. Me and my wife get to have most mornings. We get to have coffee together and just like have like an hour maybe of maybe less. but best hour of the day and we are together yep and i have a real a silent moment of gratitude and i usually will say in my head out loud thank you for this and this and this and maybe i'm talking to god or i don't know and then at night i do the same thing i take my dogs out every night before bedtime for them to you know go to the bathroom and um that's like my duty every night

as i take the dogs out and i like put them to bed they're like our kids and um i'm telling them i love him I love you. You're such good boys. You guys, look at you. You're going to protect the house tonight. Like, that's every night, they're German shepherds. Are you got German shepherds? They're really sweet.

They're like bears. They're like cute teddy bears. And every night I take them out, I'm like, all right, guys, go to the bathroom. They go out. And then they're like running around, sniffing and whatever in the yard and they're peeing. And I like, look up and I like, I say thank you for like a few things. You're like, how I thank you for all of this. Yeah.

And I'm like, or if it's like today this happened or I got this or my, my kid was blah, blah, blah, whatever. It could be like, I could zoom all the way out and go, thank you for this. Or I could zoom in and be like, thank you today, the kid or the wife or some work news or whatever. Sure. And when I started to do it for things that were not good news, it got really interesting.

But now I started throwing in bad news. Yeah. What could be perceived as bad news, which I kind of eliminated good or bad. Yeah. And just said, eh, could be good, could be bad.

I don't know. Yeah, we don't know. Yeah. We'll find out later. I still try to practice it on tour and I have it. You got it on tour?

I got it on tour. Not me, bro. I'm like, I struggle with routine on tour. When's the next record? We are going to go and start writing in like a week. Oh,

wow. Yeah, yeah. Oh, you're going, quick. We got to keep moving. We got to keep going.

Yeah, we're going to do, we're going to, I think we're going to tour, you know, a few times the rest of the year. Still kind of TVD what that's going to look like. We may do, we may do one thing,

may do another thing. But in the meantime, I think we basically have the whole summer off since a couple festivals. Take advantage of it. So I think we're just going to try to write the new record and get that out early 27. Yeah, you guys are on one, right?

You should keep making music. We can't. You're in it. Yeah. It's fucking great. Yeah, yeah. Totally. Thanks.

You know, one day at time, right? Yeah. I guess. Michael. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for going, man. Yeah, it was great.

Anytime. I appreciate it. Awesome. Thank you for watching artist-friendly. If you liked this episode, please make sure you hit the like button. You follow the channel and please share it with your friends. We appreciate the support.

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