Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Mickey Guyton

Episode Date: November 1, 2023

Listen as Grammy-nominated country artist Mickey Guyton joins Joel Madden on the latest episode of Artist Friendly. Guyton represents a new crop of artists coming out of Nashville. Her 2021 debut album, Remember Her Name — titled in tribute to Breonna Taylor, who was killed by Louisville police officers in 2020 — pushed convention as a Black country singer and possessed a sharp, powerful message. In July, she also shared the affectionate single “Nothing Compares To You” with Kane Brown, which was proceeded by a heart-warming music video. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist friendly. On this episode, I'm talking with Grammy-nominated country artist, Mickey Guyton. Let's go. Smoking up, if that's my kind, I don't want to bed times, I don't want to have bad. I feel like that's the most important thing in life is, are your kids healthy? Yeah. And then are they happy? Yeah.

Right? Are they going through the world and developing? Yeah. And then everything else is just details. Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. Like my son, Grayson, I'll show you some pictures later, but he... How old is he?

Two and a half. Oh, that's great. Yes. So he's like talking and we're going to start potty training. That's great. All of the things. But he is... Oh, that's great.

He is such a beautiful, beautiful boy with just such a great heart. But that is like, I just want to make sure that I'm around for him. So anytime I'm in my car, I'm like, I say a prayer. Be safe. My phone down, like, stuff like I never, like how I'm alive now is a miracle because, you know, we were all so reckless when we were so much younger. But now that I have my son, like, I'm just like, I just want to be there for you. What do you think was the most reckless thing about your youth?

Oh, man. I mean, I'm sure there's plenty, but I had severe road rage. Oh, wow. Oh my God. Really? You're a road rager? I don't really see you as a road rager. I had such road rage until I moved back to.

to the south. I'm not a road rager. Oh, I was. I was terrified of road rangers. I'm like, I'm like, you worthless piece of shit person. I'm like, that is not me. Wow. I really was.

I would risk my life to prove a point. Really bad, yes. It really was. And then I moved to Nashville. What do you think that is? I don't know. I don't know if it was like the Texas in me where you just could drive really fast. Maybe.

And here you can't. I'm terrified of. I'm terrified of, I'm terrified of road rager. Oh, you would have been terrified of me for sure. And I'm a. terrible driver. Oh, I'm a great driver. Now, I am a good driver. I drive like I'm on a go-car track. Oh, no. Okay. Okay. Maybe I'm not like that. But, um, yeah. I think I'm a good driver, but I hear I'm a bad driver from my family. I am, I am a great driver, but I was a crazy driver.

My wife drives. Oh, she's the one that drives. When we go, please. She's the one. I used to be that for my husband. I used to be the one that drove all the time. She does that thing where every time you're pulling into like traffic slowing down, she's like, Put your hand right there. Put your hand right there. Every time we think I'm going to drive, we pull over and switch. She's like, no, I'm done. Yeah.

Well, I'm a good driver, but I had road rage. And then once I lived in Nashville, and really when I moved there, there was like, it was like a college town is what it felt like. Yeah. Before it, like, blew up. I know you've been to Nashville. Yeah, it's really changed.

It's so 15 years. It's been crazy. Yeah. I love Nashville. I love Nashville. Nashville. I like to visit Nashville, but I don't know if I could live there full time. Where do you live? I live in East Nashville. I have a place in East Nashville and we have a house here. Okay. So we're back and forth because my husband's a lawyer. Okay. He practices out here. What kind of law? He does

complex of litigation. So he does like class actions. Wow. He represents, I know, I got myself a smart man. Yeah. I was smart. You know, I'm a musician and you never know when we're going to get paid. So I've got a consistent paycheck from my husband. And he started his own law firm. And so we're back and forth, and we've been back and forth. But every time I go back to Nashville, it's become such a tourist place that I just, I don't think I can live there full time. My brother lives there. Does he?

My older brother. Where does he live? He lives in Franklin. Well, Franklin's good. Yeah, it's nice. Franklin is nice. It's a pictures. Very suburban.

Yeah. It's a very nice life. It's a very, like, and it's close enough to Nashville. He probably has a massive freaking compound. He's got a nice house. He's my older brother. Yeah. So, but we're all really close.

My twin brother, obviously. Yeah. We were in the band together. Well, we're in the band together. Yeah. But we do everything together. But we all work together. And he lived in New York for two decades.

Came out here for almost a whole decade. And then I was like, I need to get my family to, he has a daughter. I want to go somewhere that's more family-centric. Well, don't look at Broadway uncensored. on Instagram because that is like now I'm going to you have to actually like if anybody listening like go on Broadway and censored if you want to know what Nashville is like what it's really like oh my god well at least you know Nash Vegas yeah outside of that it's good it's good it's it's fun Nashville yeah for like but you yeah I guess I'm in that industry so much so it's like

it really is a small town like you can't get on a flight. I mean, you probably fly private, but us normal people over here. No, I don't, I don't fly private. Okay, well, the more you live in Nashville and you know the community, like you can't get on a flight without knowing somebody. You can't go to the airport without seeing someone. Right. So, you know, especially me as a girl and an artist, when I don't have my wig on and my extensions and all of that, like, it's very daunting going in that world. I could see how it would be hard in entertainment to be a woman. Oh, my God.

I always think about how hard. We live in a... And add mom to that. And then a mom. Yeah. Like, I mean, your wife, I mean, hello. I think she handles it incredibly well. Yeah.

Because I've watched, we've been together for almost 17 years. It's 17 years in November. And I've watched her navigate the world with a lot of grace. Because people, it's interesting, people just create a narrative and then they just create a headline. And then that becomes another little like talking point. Yeah. And then you go out and you're promoting something that you've created, that you love, or you're talking to the world about something you care about. And they're bringing up these like non, actually, they're not even real, but they're narratives that have been perpetuated and created by.

Yeah. So you're on the soup diet. So tell us about that. Yeah, and you're like, I'm not on the soup diet. I've never done the soup diet in my life. I actually eat hamburgers every day. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think with women, we're all, we live in a culture that's so comfortable. Yes. Talking about what you're wearing, how you look, what we think you're doing to look that way. Like, Ozmpic. All of it. Yeah. And like, it's just crazy to me that we're allowed to just.

that someone's allowed to write that. The pressure that we have for sure. The pressure is so bad. Like I did, I was like, what is this Ozmpic thing? I was like, let me just try this out and like, see, does it work? You did? I tried it for like. How was it?

Oh, my God. I just did it for like a month. Not even a month. Like I did it like two weeks. You're like, you do one shot. And then again, and I did the second shot. And it made me so sick. Like, I've never thrown up that loud in my life.

Wow. And that was when I stopped. So how people do that consistently, I have no idea. I actually think these things are good things, right? Yeah. For the right, for the people who need them. Who need it. Yes. My ass did not need it.

I would say from my perspective, I did not. I'm not one to sit here and judge who needs, who needs what? I didn't need it. So I'm always one that, like, I don't judge. really don't judge anyone. Yeah, that's so good. If you're going to do something, go do it. Now, I'll tell you from my perspective if I think doing these drugs are bad or doing that, like, the information that I've received is, I'll say, it's because I work with a lot of artists. And I'm like, well, I don't know about that. Yeah. From my perspective, I think this is what usually happens when you do that, right?

Yeah. But it's your life. And if I can be of any support for your health and happiness. I'm here for that. But I'm not your father, so I can't tell you what to do. But I also think everyone's got to live their life and try the things they want to try and do the things they want to do. Well, I learned my lesson. I can tell you that. Sounds like it. Oh, my God. But I don't think it's, I think things get, they get headlined as everyone's doing this and I don't know if everyone is doing it. Yeah. And I don't. And I don't know if it's, a lot of them are though. And maybe. But I don't. And maybe. But, I don't know if it's a bad thing or a good thing.

I don't know. We don't know yet because we haven't gotten down the road far enough. I do know that from what I've read, they've been around a long time, these drugs. And it feels like for the right candidates, it really helped. Yes. For the right candidates. It was such a vain reason. But so personal, though.

I was like, why did I do that? Like, I never needed to do that. Well, you felt like you needed to try it. Yeah, I did. I was like, you know, like. I respect that. You know, I'm trying to compete with all these. Well, that's the real thing.

Yeah. I kind of feel like it's like forget that you tried it. Yeah. Cool. Like I'm sure we've, and we all try stuff. Yeah. Whatever it is that made you feel like you needed to try it is probably the real. That was the real reason.

Yeah. The real thing to look at is like, how does the world make me feel about myself or the world that I'm in? Yeah. Or that I'm trying to compete with me. or I feel like I'm trying to get me. Because I've never had any, I mean, I've had some people fat, shamed me before. That's weird.

Isn't that weird? It was like right after I had my baby too. I was like, wow. That's tough. It was. It really, really was. I had some people say some really, really mean things to me. So I like.

I've gotten fat shame before. It's like, what the hell? Yeah. Like back in what the Renaissance era, like it being like, voluptuous meant you had money it meant you could eat yeah you know and now we're like trying to look like we're starving ourselves some people but you know like guys y'all are lucky you don't have the same pressure it's not fair that's the thing is i have like a 20 pound fluctuation i could have right if i'm like off right but i don't have the especially when you're in the studio you know or like

you're you know the last 10 years i've been building things and then They're not, it's not outwardly facing. It's like building companies. So I've been at a desk a lot doing like zooms or lunch meetings or dinner meetings or whatever. And then you have kids. Hosta bar meetings. Hosta bar meetings.

And then you have kids. So when you're raising kids, you're not necessarily. You're eating their snacks. And you can't go to the gym. No. When I was in my 20s, like I get up, go to the gym. Yeah. And then do go to the studio, whatever.

Yeah. And then also when you're on tour, the way we used to tour, 300 shows a year. That's the whole damn year. And we would just be, and that's like a two-hour workout every night. You're just like burning. So you're in the best shaving your life. Thousands of calories, yeah. You didn't even think about it.

You could eat whatever you wanted. And then you get older and you're like, you don't, you can't. You don't like just lose weight overnight. Yeah. I think I also felt pressure because, like, I have, you know, there's like the working mom influencers, right? Yeah. And they start the day with a little story, are you moving today? No, bitch, I'm not moving today.

I'm not. I'm not. I'm actually sitting here watching cocoa melon and eating my child's fruit snacks. I'm eating whatever my kid wants to eat. I'm grazing on it all day long. I'm eating cinnamon crunch. And I feed my kids terrible food. You know, I just want them to eat.

You know? Nicole is like a very healthy person. Yes, she is. She just has an awareness and an understanding of like she can look at something and tell feels to me like her. She's a whole foods person. Yeah, she's a. I'm a.

I'll go to McDonald's. I'll take my kids to McDonald's. McDonald's, mac and cheese. Yeah. Whatever it is that he wants, I will give him. Yeah, I'm the same way. And I think I'm, I grew up. I grew up on...

Like Reese's puffs, you know, that's great. Travis Scott, Reese's puffs. Yeah, that's what you're giving your children. Of course. I got the terrible cereal. We have this like... I mean, we're all right. We had that, right?

I grew up on fish sticks. I grew up on terrible food. Like the can mix vegetables. We also probably have like lead in us. We've got a lot of things in us. Don't we have lead in us? I feel like Nick said the other day we have like all our generation still has lead or we are the first with me all that.

You might still have lead from the paint and the gasoline. Yes, definitely have lead. Like, how are we still alive? I think, truly. I actually think that the... My mom let my sisters chew on chicken bones. We did too. We played with chicken bones.

That's my mom. Did the same thing with my sister. It's like, what was wrong with us? I think it's something like, I don't know if it's spiritual or... Somewhere, to me, like somewhere in people's idea of God. Oh, my God. And science, to me, it's all wrapped together, like the creation, right? Right.

However you want to believe the creation. I grew up Southern Baptist. Okay. So you can imagine what that was. Right. So I grew up in a very religious family. Is it not the most traumatizing thing? It's unfortunate because it could be such a, it's such an important.

Did you do a vacation Bible school and all that? Of course. Christian camp Salty the singing songbook and Odyssey and that was my life the idea is good though it is good

it's when people take the idea and start trying to apply it in places maybe it could be applied but like it's the people that mess it up have you seen Jesus camp no it's a documentary

we went to Bible camp though it was tremendous we all did you know if you if you go it's called Jesus Camp. I think you can see it on Hulu, and it was released in 2006.

And it is like, it might be a little triggering to you. It probably is, but. Like, you see like a six-year-old literally sobbing his eyes out, talking about the sinner he is. I'm like, what are you a sinner of? We went to Bible camp this year.

You're six, and you're like, so how did you end up in country music? Is it just because you're... Well, I grew up, I grew up listening to it, like my grandmother, loved Dolly Parton. Love Dolly Parton. So my one grandma loved Dolly Parton and my other grandma loved Westerns.

So whichever house I was at, like I watched Westerns with my dad's mom, my grandma D, and she loved Walker, Texas Ranger. She called them Chuckie Baby is what she called them. So I watched that with her. Then I would go over my other grandma's house and they all lived in like the Waco, Texas area. I know. David Koresh, I know.

And a lot of people. a lot of kids now wouldn't likely know that but they wouldn't but we know yeah like it was just like crazy i remember seeing tabloids and he was calling himself jesus it was like weird you know so um terrible and so i would go over my grandma's house and she was really poor and all she would have were like the roots VHS tapes along with like Kenny Rogers and dolly pardon duets VHS tapes and she would also have fried green tomatoes and all these southern movies so that's just what I watched and I, you know, I grew up in an era of Leanne Rhymes. And I wasn't like a, it's so weird that you just have to pick a genre, you know, like, we like, we love all music.

It's like it's weird that you put yourself in whatever box that makes sense for you. I just liked voices. Like that's what I loved listening to. And, you know, I loved Leanne Rimes. I also loved Dali Parton, but I also loved Whitney Houston. I loved Goodshart. Like, I just loved music. And I feel like that's what it is today. I was working with this woman who wrote books and she wrote screenplays and she wrote like bring it on and stick it and her name was Jessica Bendinger. And I was singing demos. I was living out here and I was singing demos and I was going to school. At what age? I was at 24. Okay. Yeah. So I was here and I remember I was doing some demo work for her. And she was like, Mickey, like, do you sing country music? And I was like, well, yeah, I love.

I love country music. Like, what do you mean? And she was like, she goes, you sound so country in your records. Like, would you ever consider same country music? I was like, well, I would love to, but like there's nobody like me there. Like, there's literally nothing. Especially, yeah, then it's like, it's crazy. Like they didn't even have Darius at the time.

Yeah. All they had was like Charlie Pride. I love Darius. He is so awesome. He is. He is. He is like, what a guy. What a guy.

What an artist, too. Yes, yes, he is. And what a, what a legacy of life. To then go and have this massive country career. Because Hootie and the Blowfish was country to me. Very much so. Like Mike Dungan over at Capitol, like that's why he signed him. Yeah.

Yeah. But the 90s was so weird. And that's what country music sounds like now. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I know people love Darius, but I feel like one day I believe it will be under a microscope. Uh-huh. will it will be written about the influence that that guy's had on music.

Yeah. Period. And certainly he's loved. But I think there's so much credit due to like when you think about 90s radio, rock. Yeah. And as a whole world, it's still just kind of to me we're realizing how important. I mean, of course we know that music was important. but I think it's like something about the legacy of music.

Yeah. In all weave throughout that and he was in the 90s. Such a piece of that part of the fabric. Yeah. And then what he's done in, we say in country music, but that's only because we perceived Houdi to not be country. It was country to me. But he was.

Yeah. So his legacy of music, I just think he's brilliant. Yeah. So at the time, you know, I didn't, I think it was like divine intervention because, you know, I was out here. I didn't know exactly what I was going to be doing. I just loved music. And after Jessica was like, you could sing, like, you sound country me.

And I was like, well, I love it, but I don't even know how to get there. Like, how does one even get there? How do you break into country? Yeah. It's a world that is. And so I randomly knew this guy who used to be, or was Nick Cannon's DJ. Okay. From while on out.

His name is DJ D. Rec. Okay. And he knew a guy named Julian. Raymond, who at the time was working over at Warner, and he was, I don't know, VP of ANR, I don't know what I was doing. And he introduced me to Julian, and I started working with Julian. And then he introduced me to my then management that at the time they'd managed like Lady, or they're called Lady A now.

Right, Lady A. Not Lady Antebellum. Right. But Lady A, they managed Keith Urban. They managed Faith Hill, Dwight Yocum. And so I started working with them. And the next thing I know, I was out in capital Nashville.

And at the time, I was like couch surfing here because I knew I was going to eventually move to Nashville. I just didn't know how to get there. But I did a demo, sang for the president at the time, Mike Dungan, who then was chairman, who's now retired. But I sang for them in their office during CMA Fest. Yeah. Which I feel like you should be a part of CMA Fest or something.

I love country music. I have so many friends in country music. Yeah. People don't look at me as like a country guy. You're totally country vibe. Like, have you not been listening to Hardy and stuff? But that's the thing is to me, like modern country is guys like me who were fans of country.

Yeah. But maybe felt like we weren't allowed to come participate. Oh, they would freaking die. And then I think it's evolved now to this new country. Oh, yeah. It is everybody. Yeah. Because I go to country shows.

I'm friends with a lot of, I mean, Luke Combs is like a really good friend of mine. And we have a funny, we, we have a funny, like, connection because we think we're related, but somehow. Yeah. But I have been a fan of his from the beginning. Yeah. And there's a bunch of guys in country that I just, I love going to country shows. Yeah. Love the audience.

Yeah. The audience is so great. I love being in the crowd. Yeah. And I think. It's a thing. Yes. But it, the label country, it bucks up things sometimes because people, people start trying to tell you

what country is. I'm like, I don't think that's true. I just don't, like, that is one thing that bothers me is there's so many different forms of it now. Like, it's gone to, it's expanding into so many different worlds that I, well, if you listen to some country songs now, modern country songs, I always hear songs that could have been on our record. That's what I'm saying.

All day. All freaking day. Like, I listen to stuff. I'm just like, I don't know. Like, people are so quick to tell, they don't do that in any other genre. No one even thinks about it. Nobody even thinks about it. But in country, someone's always trying to say you're not country.

And you're like, but why? Like to who? Like to who? Like I legitimately, like I know like I'm a city girl now, I guess you could say. But I used to have a thick ass southern accent. So much so that my cousins in Georgia. I work because my cousins are from Georgia. Okay.

Georgia, we're making fun of my accent. Well, because to me, Atlanta is like such a metropolitan. Yeah. Georgia is, it's interesting. Like, but yeah, a heavy southern accent. I like it, but of course, if you have it. People made fun of me so bad. I had a Maryland accent.

Okay, so you worked through your people made fun of you too. Yeah, because you'd say words and people would be like, what did you say? Yeah. Yeah. And I was like so southern, y'all. Like, I really was. Yeah. I was.

That's a lot more charming than Maryland. Maryland we have these words. But don't you love the Brothers Osborne? Like they're so great. Yes. They're, there's a whole vibe of. There's a real accent though.

Yeah, it's true. They don't really have them, but I don't know why they want to call. Like, there's so many people that want to say what is in what is in country. Yeah,

they have a lot of time on their hands. Like America as a whole is country. It really is. Period. Everywhere you go. Everywhere you go, whether you're in Bakersfield. Go to Seattle.

Like, Just like you'll find it I'm anywhere like there like America is a southern like everybody you'll find a pocket of it there so um that's what I lived and that's what I grew up and that's why I I did fall in love with country music like but again I fell in love with all music like I loved Shanaya yeah I've recently opened for her how's that it was awesome like her audience is so diverse. Yeah. Like you have everybody from the conservative side to the left side to,

I mean, left, right. Yes. That to me though, is country. Like that's modern country. That's the thing that I like about it. Yeah. You actually have a large group of people that are coming together with something they agree on. Yeah. It's when we start weaponizing things against people that we don't know. Like when you weaponize God, that's evil. I think it's evil. I, there was a minute there where I was getting a lot of online hate

for calling out racism. Okay. And the things that were said to me. Just pure hate, pure evil. Some of the most atrocious things that anybody would ever say. It was like, it was like,

the road rage person that I was. Likely someone who, if you looked at their presentation of themselves on their socials, that's all we can go by, right? If we don't know someone. Yeah. They always had a Bible verse. They present as this loving, that their ideal in life is love, right, which is God, right? The idea of God and God, you know, my belief anyways, and it says it in the Bible,

that God is love. That's it. Period. So they present this, but then they fire hate bombs. Yeah. It's so strange to me. Yeah. And like I would look and it would be like some forgiveness Bibleverse or like a cross or something.

I'm like, the math ain't math. Like this makes no sense. The math doesn't add up. It doesn't add up. Also, you're a person from what I understand. Yeah. You experienced a lot of racism in your early life. Oh my God.

Oh, yeah. You know, around schools and stuff. I lived in Crawford, Texas. I near George, former President George Bush's ranch, and we were supposed to go to China Springs. That was the public school we were supposed to go to. And we had some family friends that their selling point at that school was that there were no black kids that went there. Oh, my God. So I actually went to a private school, an all-white private school.

And I mean, even in my neighborhood, the neighborhood I lived in the suburb. division that was literally right on we were the only black kids in the neighborhood um my brother and i were playing outside and two kids rode there and the school bus were hanging out the window and they started calling us the N word that's terrible i know i was like 10 but it's taught like those kids that's the other thing with me with kids in my opinion they don't they don't just they just repeat what they hear. They just see it and they repeat it. Then it becomes real because they grow up and they become real people in the world and they make at some point kids become conscious and they make decisions and choices. Yeah. And likely repeat the models that they

grew up in. Yeah. Because I'm not going to have cussed in front of my two-year-old son. Yeah, I don't really have a problem with it. I don't either until my son. I don't either until my son was like, oh shit. Fuck. Yes. I said, what did you say? You said truck? No.

And you were like, shit. You said sheep, Grayson. And he used it in the proper context. And that's when I knew. I had to like. I tell my kids, I don't care what words you use. It's how you use them and how you're. I mean, obviously, he still hears me.

But my kids aren't big. They don't cuss a lot. But like, but I do believe it's. more about how we use the words. Yeah. And so if you're excited and you're cursing, that's great. If you're using... Dad, guess what the fuck I did.

Yeah, yeah. So you're in an all-white neighborhood in Texas, going to an all-white private school. And then an all-black church. Literally, you're the only black kids in your school. Is you and your brother? Me and my brother, my two younger sisters. Wow.

And actually, and in my grade, we had two others. two other. Okay. But it was just us. How did your parents deal with that when you tell them that? You know, I wasn't one. Like, you know, like kids a lot of times, they keep it internalized. Right.

And like, my mom heard it. She was outside. She was the one that recalled the memory where I was like, oh, my God, I forgot about that. It would happen so long ago. Like, sometimes I think, like, especially in the South, you just kind of just carry on because that's all you can really do. Like, you can't. That's crazy.

It is. It is really crazy. I did get called and we're at a country show. Nobody stood up for me in that moment. I was the lone wolf in that moment. Where was that? That was in New York. Was it just once or was it more?

It was just once. Huh. In New York? Upstate. It's pretty crazy upstate New York. Yeah. And I was like just, it was crazy. Like the person,

I couldn't see who said it. Right, it's a crowd. But he was like, everybody's waiting for the, and I like looked up. That's, that's, that's fucked. And I looked up because I was doing after show signing. And I remember looking up and I couldn't find him. And all I could say was I just said, God bless you. But, and you heard people in the line to meet me.

You heard a gasp. Right. I wonder why no one says anything. I wonder why everyone's standing there. You think it's initial. They're being completely mortified. Right. But I've, like, even, I'm not a confrontational person when it comes to me, but I don't

care where I am. If I see someone bullying somewhere. That's me. I'm not confrontational, but I'll say something. Yeah. I'll say something. And it doesn't matter. Like, I will.

I'll remove them. I will straight up be like, don't talk to them like, like, that's me. I'm so, I'm so not. Yeah. That when something sets me off, I go over the top. That would probably be my road rage if something like that happened in my presence. Yeah. I would likely get, I would physically remove the person.

Yeah. So that could be a problem in itself because, you know, anything could happen. You never know who that person fucking is. But, yeah, you don't know what they have. But, yeah. What state you're in. It would snap. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, nobody said anything. fucked up. It was. How do you recover from that? I recovered. It's like I've my career path has been so weird and it recovered in such a weird way. I recovered by really trying to make sure that there was a space for black people in country music and a space for queer people in country music, a space for any person that you think is different. And that, this genre of music. Right. Because we all have dreams and we all, they're valid and we need to see someone in this space that represents us so that we know that that dream can't come true.

Yeah. And so that was kind of how I coped with it. You know, first of all, I started talking about it. I'm not angry by any means. I'm not mad at whoever said that. But I, I mean, it was so long. That's big. I mean, what do you do? You know, you can't, it's like they're the ones that look bad, not me. Yeah. I didn't say that. You did. And so I've truly tried to fight to make sure that people have a space because that's important that they feel safe in that space.

Don't you feel like someone that would say that lives in like a really shitty situation? Like I would be like, fuck off. Go back to your hole. Yeah. I've told people to fuck off. Go back to your cubby hole. Go back to your little fucking hole where wherever that's, wherever. Whatever hole you live in that that's okay.

You have to be miserable to say that. That gave you the confidence to say that has to be a little fucking delusional hole. Yeah. Because or your fucking frontal cortex is not. Fair. Doesn't exist. It's so underdeveloped. You are just dumb.

Yeah. That's how I feel when I see people that are operating on such a low level. Yeah. You're either not right in the head. Yeah. developmentally something wrong with you. Yeah. But not, that's not okay.

Like you're living in like a dark place. Yeah. And you have an underdeveloped brain. Yeah. That you think that you can come into the group here. Yeah. That's all here for this positive experience and disrupt it like that with, with just pure, evil. Evil.

It is. That is pure. Toxic. Yeah. You know, I have zero. that's where I get really angry is like where where someone who actually doesn't function on your level. Yeah. Can pull you into their dysfunction.

Yeah. And all of us because it shocks everyone. And now everyone's looking at the dysfunctional tool who's full of shit. Yeah. And they've suddenly gained some sort of relationship and access to the group that's decided we're here to do this good thing. The problem with the world today, maybe, and I'm working it out in real time, as we we have these conversations is that they have access to that to us yeah that well that's the whole thing that and that's the hard part about social media too is they do have access to to to say whatever they

want and to have standing on some level and i guarantee you most people you see like you see them you see the comments like no matter how much you try to avoid it there'll be one day where you do see it of course and those words live on and they live forever they live on it's a memory you're talking about You're just like, people are like, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. You're like, no. Like, I get it. I'm not worried about that person.

Yeah. It's what they said. The words, even when you know it's not true. And you'll probably, because you're an artist, go even further and go, how many people is that reckless, terrible psychopath? How many little kids can't stand up for themselves? How many people don't feel like. they have a platform to stand up themselves. How many people have to take that or feel like they have to take that?

Yep. Because truly we don't, as humans, have to do anything we don't want to do. But people would argue, yes, I do. Because I have bills or I have a family or I have, you know, and I understand. Yep. It's why I think we have to build out lives where if we want to speak up, we can. Yes. A lot of people feel like they can't.

But they can't. Because they have a dependency on the job or. There's aspects of their life that they feel out of control of. Yeah. It's easier said than done. It is easier said than done. But I always encourage people to try and diversify their life, whether it's financially or socially.

However it is, they feel like they can't survive if they lost that thing. Try to build out a life where you could survive if you lost. Yeah. Well, that's the sad part when people have financial dependency on whatever that is. Yeah. And that's why I'm proud of my husband who's a lawyer who defend. Sounds like a smart guy. He's a very smart guy.

And he just, he defends the little people. Not the corporations, but the people that can be taken advantage of. Especially like immigrant workers that don't realize they have rights in this country. And are treated like a modern day slave. It's absolutely atrocious some of the things that he sees. And he fights for those people. So, you know. Isn't that interesting though?

you ended up marrying someone who is a protector. Yeah. And almost a strategic mind. Yes. To defend people he feels and groups of people that he feels need to be defended. Yeah. He committed his life to this career path. That's what he does.

He does. Every day, every week. It's like, it means so much to be married to someone who's so compassionate like that and has a brain to, be able to separate. Like for me, I'm a very empathetic person. I'm an empath. You take your work home with you.

Yes. And the words like hit me. Way harder. And he's able to separate that. So even in my own respective career, at one point in time, he started his own Twitter account to defend me. Like there wasn't a tweet that didn't get a clapback.

A response. Love it. Hey, you know what? They were probably bots, but he still was clapping back. He sure was. He's got conviction. Tell me about your song with Kane Brown.

How did that happen? So I, at the time, managers recently signed an artist. You know Tyler Hubbard from Florida, Georgia Line? Yes. What an angelic human. What a great guy. Like, you look at his persona from FGL. Yeah, Florida, Georgia, which I loved all their songs.

But like, you looked at him, you think, this frat boy. from Georgia, like whatever. And when my managers had signed him, he took an interest in wanting to write with me. And I'm like, why the hell does this guy want to work with me? And he's actually like an extremely talented songwriter. Super talented. Like super talented.

Whenever you're ready to get a good shot to do their country record, he should write him with Tyler. That's a great idea. I'm just saying. Like I'm putting out the ideas. I'm firing away. Anyway, so Tyler. I really like Tyler.

Like, have you made? met his wife, Haley? I think briefly. Equally angelic. Yeah. Like they're like just salt of God's green earth. Yeah, good people. Like they're good people.

But anyway, he was stepping away from doing like just duets and he had this song that he wrote with Bibi Rexa that he wasn't going to put on his. Who's also very nice, Bibi? I haven't met her yet. She's very nice. But she was really nice to give me this song. She's a sweetheart. Like I want to meet her.

You would love her. I would love to. Bibi, I'm where are you at? You guys will meet now. Yeah, we will. You put it out there. We will. We will. We're putting it out there.

And I just love what she stands for, body positivity and just being a badass bitch. But anyway, so they gave me this song. And I just loved it so much. And we really still thought it would be a stronger of a song as a duet. Yeah. And so I didn't know who in country music that I could sing with. I had no idea. Right.

And the now chairman of UMG, Cindy May, suggested Kane Brown. I love Kane Brown. I love him. He's cool. He's such a painfully shy person. I wouldn't get that from him, but I'd have never met him. But I'm a fan of his music. And I mean, that's enough, I mean, this good Charlotte country album, he's another person

that you should collab with. I mean, we would die. Like, die. I'm putting this energy out there, okay? I've always wanted to make a country out. I'm putting this out there now. I've never felt like I could. You'll be right at home.

I've always been afraid of rejection. They would love you. Are you kidding me? Like you would be a dream come true to Nashville. Seriously. I'm dead serious. Like everybody would come out of the woodworks for you. I don't know if that's true.

It's true. But I think we have a great relationship with country. They would love you. You would be like a dream come true for sure. I think we're truly fans and have been forever. And, you know, my brother lives down there and we're opening an office down there. Okay. See?

We're working with some really cool country guys. See, I'm putting it out there. We tend to be more in the artist development. Oh, great. So we like to find artists. Oh, my God. Well, if I find some. There's a really great guy named Ryan Waters.

I don't know Ryan Waters. Just check him out. Okay. And then there's another guy. Do you know Michael Warren? Probably. You would love Michael. He's got a song called Another Round.

I do know that song. He is so, he's such a good songwriter. Don't you love the songwriters out there? The best. It's the best in the world. I love country songwriters. And there's such a culture of songwriting. That's kind of, it's nice to think that talented people could find places where they can thrive.

And I do think that Nashville has this like incredible community of people who are literally, they want to be songwriters. Yeah. Some of them want to be artists, but there's tons of people there that are passionate about songwriting. It's a culture. Yeah. It is. And it's like very family oriented.

Yeah. You walk it, you go in and write at 11. You're done by four. Yeah, four or five. And then you go to Redwood or winners and losers and have a little drink. Yeah. And then you go home and you're with your family by 630. It's really nice.

Yeah. It is really, really nice. But so when my Cindy Mae suggested I asked Kane Brown. And I have a really hard time. taking up space. Like someone described that in the best way possible, but like I don't ever want to bother anybody. Right.

So it took everything in my being to hit up Kane and his DMs. And we follow each other. Right. And we have a great rapport. I'm the same way. That's so weird. I will not ask anyone for anything.

Why are we like that? And yet I'm excited if someone asks me. I would be, it's like it's an honor. Which is your birthday? March 11th. Oh, I'm Jim 17.

I'm a Gemini. So I don't know what that means. I thought maybe if you were Gemini, it would make sense. But I don't. It's gone. Might just be artistic. Maybe it's artistic. Maybe it's archistic.

Maybe it's the religious trauma. Maybe that. That could be it. So I hit him up and I slid into his DMs and he said, send me the song. So I sent him the song. And he said yes. And I was like, great. And then nothing for months.

Because he's so busy. Yeah. And so when he said yes, I was like, okay, great. And then I didn't hear from him for a long time. And then I was at a show at the Rhyman, and I ran into his manager. And she came up to me, and she was like, Kane really loves this song. He really wants to be a part of it. I was like, send it.

Okay. Well, here's the stems. Put something on it. Nothing. The next thing I'm getting a message from my A&R being like, Hey, so Kane is in the studio right now. He's going to send the vocal over now. That was probably like four months later.

I was like, I'm like, I'm gonna be my music. My hair can't change with me. And he has been able to be able to keep my rhythm. For so, Potion Nine of Sebastian Professional

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your period of the It happens when it happens. Okay, you know, I'm not one. And so meanwhile, my management's freaking out not knowing what's going on and wants me to bother him to get more answers. And I'm like, if he wants to do it, he's going to do it. Yeah, there's an organic.

If he doesn't want to do it, I'm not going to keep just knocking on this person's door. Yeah, there's like, there is like a feel, right? Yeah. To how you do things. Yeah. And in music, there is an organic. nature to like how things happen. Yeah.

And we could talk about it for three years and then it happens. We could talk about it and do it the next day. Yeah. It's hard to say when a song's supposed to be. Yeah. When it's supposed to be born. Yeah. And this was like in 2022.

Okay. So we're in 2023 now, almost the end of it. So it took like a year and a half for this whole process to happen. But we finally got it out. We shot the music video. And it is just, and we sound so great together. So when I got- You guys sound good together.

You just never know. You never know how voices are going to sound, but it was like a great, like our voices meshed really well together. And I was just so excited. And it organically happened. The music video was awesome. And we had his video director and videographer shoot the video. And it had this really cool, like, old town.

Star is born kind of a feel. And it just really turned out great. But then you have to think about it. We're both on different labels. I'm on UMG. He's on Sony. Right. So the legal part was like.

It's litigious. Oh my God. Yeah, it can take a long time. It was just like. Everyone's arguing over who gets wet on the back of it. Yes. And trying to get Randy to finally say yes. He's, you know, he's chairman of Sony Nashville.

So getting him to say yes. Come on, Randy. I know. I mean, we were all going from all sides, like just trying to get an answer from him. And he finally said yes. And here we are. You ever just want to call Randy? You go, Randy, listen, dude, I understand.

Yes. But let's make this happen. Yes. What can we do? Yes. But there's all this ways of doing things. There's a lot of people in between. Oh, my God.

It seemed like it was like such an easy thing. It's like, great. You'll have this song out together. It was like a year and a half process. Yeah. I'm glad they worked it out. Yeah. Because it's a great song.

Yeah, it is. It is. Do you have another one in mind? Are you like, what's the next one? Next song? Yeah. Oh, I have a whole, I have a whole album of things. I've actually started getting into acting too.

Oh, great. Yeah, I'm a little actress, which is something that's really awesome. I'm releasing a short film that was a passion project. Cool. But it was by the people, some of the people I do, The Mandalorian. And it's a short film that, They're working on getting it into Sundance. What's it about?

It's called The Principal. And it is a movie about cyberbullying, which is actually very close to me because I have been cyber bullied. And it's a pretty traumatic thing when that does happen. It's scary. Yeah. And I'm the principal. And so there was one kid that was like the hot, white jock dude, right? Right.

And he comes to the door in the Tobardo State. And then another guy comes in the Barto. State, which he was Asian. So it really said a lot because of all the Asian hate that it's been happening throughout the pandemic. So there's a specific lesson. And he could be gay. You weren't sure.

So it just represented a lot of things. So he comes through the door. And they're like, why am I here? And what they start seeing in the Bartow State were all of these social media posts. Like, it's like it looks like it's just in the air. I actually could say it's, but it's on a big screen. Right. And so you see all these social media posts of this guy bullying people,

and some specifically were to the Asian guy. And what you find out is he ends up committing suicide. And he committed suicide because of this guy and all the cyberbullying he was having. And then the father comes in. And so what you find out in my movie was that the white kid that was bullying, the Asian kid was actually bullied by his father. And then you find out that his father was then bullied by his alcoholic mother.

So it's an all chain of event, chain reaction. The generational. Yeah, the generational curse, really. And so you're showing them break that. And they understand that and they see that they have to forgive not only the bully. Because you have to forgive the bully because you don't understand and you don't know what happened to him in his life, which goes back to what we were talking about earlier with cyberbullying. and people that are so mean in the world and whatever,

and you have to ask what happened to them, which is crazy, but this is what that film is. I think those kinds of things are great. Yeah. Because it does give you perspective. Yes. To help you understand why someone would be so terrible. Yeah.

So what are you going to do next? Well, you know, I'm going to continue putting out music. Yes, I would love to do some film and television. I'm going to finish this album. Hopefully it would be out by next summer. That is my goal, as we know. Great. Just really enjoy talking to you.

That's great. It's been you're a badass. Well, see you down the road. Yeah. I'll come to a show. Absolutely. I love that. Awesome.

Thanks, baby. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of artist friendly. If you really liked it, you can follow, like, subscribe to the show anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support, and we'll see you next time.