Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Mikaela Hoover

Episode Date: July 29, 2026

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Mikaela Hoover. Hoover’s best known for her long partnership with James Gunn, who created a web short for her called Sparky & Mikaela before casting her in a series of superhero films, including 2010’s Super, 2014’s Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, and last year’s Superman. Following those roles, she’s stepped into the world of anime by playing Chopper in Netflix’s adaptation of One Piece, which Madden calls the “Japanese Star Wars.” Stopping by the Artist Friendly studio, the actor discusses how the character helped heal her inner child, the importance of trusting instincts as an artist, and the freedom that comes from embracing who you are. “It was almost cosmic,” Hoover tells him. “I was like, ‘I love this role, and this role is me,’ and I knew nothing about it.”  ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Janice Leary, Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin Director/Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman ------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I actually think that's the point of art and life is like learning how to be ourself. Yeah. And I think too, Chopper has healed so much in me. I like, I didn't know how much I needed this role. So when I booked the role, it was the first time I looked at myself in the mirror after I booked it. And I was like, you did it. Michaela. Yes. Thanks for coming. Thank you so much for having me.

Wait, you order House of Harlow? They do extra extra small. They do. She's so small. I'm so grateful to her for that because people don't make like tiny clothes. We got to get you on the like the friends list. That would be my dream. So they send stuff.

What? Yeah. I'll post around. I'll do anything. No, I'll make sure. That would be so cool. Yeah, I'll get your information somehow and give it to. It would be so nice.

Thank you. It's cool company. Well, it's your wife's company. Yeah. I'm super proud of her. Yeah. She started it 16 years ago. I started wearing it shortly after she started it.

Yeah, House of Harlow is funny because it's like, it's not the biggest brand, not the smallest brand. It's been around for 16 years. It's really made its way into the like multi-generational culture. I think it's pretty big. It's all right. Yeah. I'm proud of her. Probably because it's my wardrobe, but it's, I feel like it's pretty.

That's really cool. She'll be really, she'll be tickled. I was actually trying to find a house a harlowe outfit to wear to this, but I'm like, I've worn everything a million times, and so it would be kind of on the nose and cheesy, but yeah, I love her stuff. That's really nice. I could talk about her all day. So sweet. What is her sign?

When was she born? What month? Virgo. And what are you? Pisces. Yeah. That would go together. You're into astrology.

Very into astrology. What are you? answer. Emotional. What month is that? July. Oh, July. But what is your moon sign?

Oh, that's a good question. I think I'm a, I want to say maybe Leo moon or maybe. Well, Leo would explain why you're in the spotlight. Oh. If you're a Liam man. But I wonder what you're rising is. Because you have a very mellow energy. I wonder, am I mellow?

Yes, you have a very calming energy. I think I'm grounded. Yes, that's why I'm sure there's a lot of Earth signs. Earth. In your chart. Yeah. That's probably it. Earth.

I don't know a lot about this stuff, but... Pisces is one of, if not the best sign. Pretty fluid. Yes. The water sign. They're very psychic. Very intuitive. They're the most intuitive sign.

Very intuitive, very gut. And lucky. It's a lucky sign. Very lucky. Super lucky. I also work with my wife. What? Yeah, I work on House of Harla.

Oh, so me just talking about that. you're like, oh, this is extra great. Yeah, I'm not involved in the like design or anything in the like business as far as like the vision of the business or whatever. I just run the company. Wow. So I just work with the CEO and like help manage the infrastructure of the company. Wow.

Which I really love. I'm not good at like clothing design or anything. So whenever she shows me something like, that's cool. Well, her designs are great. I love them. Yeah, she's dope. So. Do you do like anything like that?

Design clothes? Yeah, or like, do you have any other companies or businesses or? No, I wish. That would be really, no, I've been so focused on my acting career for the last two decades that I haven't. You can do it a long time. I know, I know. You don't look old enough. Oh, shut the hell.

You really don't. That's so nice. A long time. I mean, I moved out here at 18 and went to college out in in Los Angeles and then for. Loyola. Look at you. Yeah. I'm not.

I studied. Oh, my goodness. I feel so special. Thank you. Yeah, and just was in the school plays and then got an agent and a manager and all of that stuff. But like, it's taken me so long. I mean, I've been working. I've been a working actor for a long time, but it's taken me a long time for people to actually recognize that. What does people recognizing it mean to you? People thinking, oh, she's talented and she deserves to be here.

And you get more looks like people go, you know what, let's call her for that. see if she, right. Like she, I think that she could possibly play this role. So you love the work. I love the work. And the problem sometimes is people not giving you a fair look, you see a role and you go, I would fucking crush that.

Yeah. But they can't see it. Which is usually the case. Right. Which could be really frustrating. I think because of my voice and I look a certain way or, you know, have a certain energy that people think like, oh, she couldn't do that. But I do love the work.

I love the character work. And I have OCD. And the only time that I don't have OCD is when I'm working because I'm in that character. So it's really great. Do you think that being such a pretty girl gets in the way sometimes? Thousand percent. Yeah. Which would also be frustrating.

And I'm not saying boohoo me because I'm like. No, it is what it is. I'm just saying. It is what it is. Yeah, but I think that that's why playing this little reindeer boy, Chopper, has been so amazing because nobody would ever be like,

she can play a little boy or a little, you know, and it was like that has nothing to do with the way that I look. Nothing. It's all. I have a theory. Uh-huh. I think our most productive years are from 40 to 60.

I feel like I just stepped into life. And I think that your talent, because you're very talented. Oh, thank you so much. It's interesting. If you're smart, which you're smart and you're talented and you work hard, you will not lose. It's just a matter of time. I hope you're right.

No, I know I'm right. Yeah. Thank you. And I'm telling you, and I'm psychic. I love this. I think that you're about to find out in the next chapter. and I think the chopper role I'm not saying you're just here

because of One Piece but I'm one of the biggest One Piece fans in the world You are? Yes Wait, I didn't know that Oh, you didn't know that? No! Okay. You are? Yes. I'm a One Piece nerd.

I'm so happy. Like I would get in a line at Comic Con for you to sign a fucking card. For real? I wouldn't know. I didn't even know you knew what One Piece was. I'm obsessed with One Piece. I just didn't want to lead with it. that. I wish you would have left with that. I would have felt so cool. I'm like looking around like,

oh, I'm so intimidated. You would have said one piece. I feel cool. Okay. So I love that. And I think that we think we have the idea of what our career or our work, because a career is just a life is your life's work. And we think that we know what our life is supposed to be. And then God has another plan. And that if we try, that and go forward, we will discover that plan and that plan will always be better than our plan. Because if you had made what you think success is, because success is not just a hit movie and you're on the poster and then everyone's like, oh my God, it's you. And there's cameras and you have sunglasses on and you're like, that's one picture we see all the time and we're like, we're programmed to think like, I guess that's what success looks like. Because I, in my 20s, I had the,

they hit records and all that stuff. And I was like, I guess this is, this is success. All right. And then that got in the way. Wow, that's so true. And it got in the way of my growth. It got in the way of my, of me. And then I had to go into my 30s with having done no work on myself, having not grown,

having been infantilized by all the people that do all the things for you and all the success. Exactly. The success. The success. is what? I got a bunch of money or I got a bunch of whatever. It's not that I'm not grateful for the experience I had. It's not that I want to throw it away. It's that I thought that was the ballgame, but I'm sitting here now. This is the ballgame. And that's a cool backstory in my opinion. It's so much more interesting. And yeah, it is. It's, you know? Yeah. And if someone has had to work

to get here and not give up, which that's how I feel about myself. Like, I'm, I'm here now and it's not that I don't care about anything I've done. It's that I showed up for that. I worked my ass off and I'm grateful that things happened in the order they did. But I'm not chasing that. I'm not like here trying to figure out. How do I do that again? How do I have a hit song or how do I?

But I thought I was until like I came to me in working on myself and realizing what's the most important part? It's me actually. Yeah. I need to be happy. I need to be healthy. I need to live a long time. I need to like have a good relationship with the world and with like myself and with people. And having success young can stunt us from actually having the one knowing who the fuck we are. Yeah. Having real relationships with people. We're like we know them and we're not the only one in the relationship. It's not transactional too. When you're young it's like and you get success like that.

Yeah. I can't imagine how transactional everything feels. Success now in this stage of your life is richer. Of course. You know, it's like a more rich. You earned it too. Feeling. Yeah. So I'm just saying, I think every career should feel exciting and interesting.

Those are the best ones. And I think that you've had a very interesting. Feels like it's just starting. Yeah. But it hasn't just started. Yeah, it does, though. It feels like it has. It feels like it's just now starting.

Has the chopper roll, one, did it open your eyes to one piece? Yeah, so when I, I was filming another show, when I, which I thought was, the other show that I got was a, um, beef. Yeah. Have you watched season two? I haven't watched season two. Yeah, I cannot wait. I cannot wait for you to watch season two. We've been waiting to like binge it.

So it's like on our binge list. You have to watch it together. Yeah. So I was a huge fan of season one. And the fact that I even got an audition for season two, I was like, oh my gosh, this is crazy, that I'm even being considered. And when I got a callback, I was like, there was a confidence that I had got from that that I had never had because it was like, just in my mind, beef is such a, it's like the highest form of art for television. Like one of the highest, it's just, it's a masterpiece, the first season and the second season. So when I booked the role, it was the first time I looked at myself in the mirror after I booked it.

And I was like, you did it. You did it for you and you did it. And you showed yourself that you're talented. You can walk away from this career now and say that you did it because you just proved yourself. And it's just one role on a show. But there was something about that moment in my life where I went, now it's just fun. Now you don't have to prove yourself anymore. So going back to one piece, I was working on beef.

And my agent called and said, you know. Who's your agent? Stephanie at Buckwold. She's my voiceover agent. She's the greatest. Cool. So like such a nice person really cares. She saw me, you know?

Like I had had agents before that who didn't see me. She sees me. And to me, that's so much more important. than anything else. 100%. So she called a week later and she said, hey, casting asked for you specifically on this. Because I had been auditioning for voiceover

since Guardians of the Galaxy and I hadn't been booking anything. Nobody was taking me seriously. Nobody was even... But Guardians is such a good piece of tape though, like for you. Oh, thank you. It's so good. Oh, thank you so much.

But like that's good work. Thank you. But the industry didn't... I mean, they clearly did because it led me to One Piece. So when I got the sides and the breakdown and the audition, they didn't say what it was for. So it doesn't, it has a code name. And then it didn't say what the character was.

And it said it was three episodes on a Netflix show. And that it was facial capture as well. And the breakdown was that he was this ugly little forest creature who had been picked on his whole life, who'd never been seen. And right away, when I read the breakdown, I was like, They want me for this. They want me to play this ugly little boy forest creature. I'm so happy right now.

And then I read the sides. And one of the scenes was with, one of the scenes was with Dr. Herlich. And where he's saying, you know, he's locking him out. And immediately, it was almost like cosmic universe thing. I was like, I love this role and this role is me. and I knew nothing about it. And I went and I recorded it

and I had the most fun I'd had in years playing this role and making up this who he was and all this stuff about him. And then Stephanie said, producers want to see you. I still didn't know what it was for. And so when I auditioned, I again thought he was this forest creature.

So I was like hunched over. I had one eye closed. Like so gross. And the producers, were like, you don't have to do that. You don't have to. And I was like, no, I'm getting it. I'm getting into character.

I thought of him as this slimy, gross thing. And I did the audition. And one of the producers was, had tears. And he goes, people are going to love choppers so much. And I was like, who? What's? I thought it was for, I can't say with the breakdown of the, the code name, but I thought it was for like Ninja Turtles or something.

It was something so like not what I had envisioned. And then found out it was one piece. And I called one of my best friends who also happens to be in the business and is a director. And I knew when I got the call for Chopper, I was like, I knew it was something so special. I knew that it was something that I wanted so bad. I was crying. And I called my friend and I said, it's for this show One Piece. and he goes, your life just changed.

Oh, yeah. And I was like, what? Do you know about one? I mean, now you know about one piece? I do now, but I didn't. Do you know how important one piece is? I didn't. To me, it's Japanese Star Wars.

That's the best way I could describe the universe, right? Even though it's not Star Wars. It's that important. Every character has a backstory. Every story arc is related somehow. Yeah, it's so beautiful. It's also the, the, the biggest selling comic of all time.

You know, it just surpassed Superman. Yeah. And it's like one of the greatest, like, worlds. And I discovered one piece because I went to, I didn't get to travel as a kid. And my first time traveling was when we started touring in like the year 2000, I went to Japan. And it was already in Japan. It was like in the early, yeah, in the early years of it, it was there.

And it was like, it was cool. And then in the 2000s, it got bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And then in 2010, 11, 12, it got bigger. And you saw this thing over the last 20 years grow. Really? But it's only because there's so many fans. See, and I've never been to Japan. Oh, my God.

I know. I know. I've been to Korea. And when I was shooting beef, we were shooting the finale in Korea. And I was chopper, but nobody could say that I was chopper. I couldn't tell people. and I saw in every convenience store, there was little choppers.

He was everywhere. Yeah, choppers. But I couldn't tell anyone. Chopper's beloved. But I couldn't. It was so cool to see him everywhere there, but then I was like, but I can't tell anyone that I'm him.

And One Piece is at the beginning of its global awareness. Like now. I just saw Shaq was wearing a Netflix One Piece shirt. Yeah, I'm telling you right now, the next 20 years is going to be about the rest of the world, discovering One Piece. like the way it's loved in Japan, it's loved in America by anime fans, but now it's expanding because this is why I keep saying Star Wars. In the beginning, Star Wars was big. One Piece is big

in Japan. Star Wars was like, I'm a sci-fi fan. Now, no, Star Wars is just a global accepted piece of entertainment, right? Like everyone knows Star Wars. That to me is one piece. Like I believe that every character should have their own movie. The backstories are so good in One Piece. You're making me so happy and excited right now. You have no idea what you're doing to my little heart. It's so big and so important. And it's the number one manga, but also just like comic. And then now that the rest of the world is understanding like more and more about the characters,

their stories are so good. So good. And I love One Piece. So I'm just like such a nerd. I'm so happy that you're not out of it. One Piece. Yeah. I thought I was here for Beef.

I'm sorry. Oh, I was like, chopper? Oh, you have no idea. No, I love beef. Yeah, but trust me when I say this. Me and my wife, we have like our list of shows and whenever we get like a weekend or we get to like binge watch something. Like that's definitely one we binge. And season two, we're going to watch that. It's on our list. But like one piece is beyond not just the show. Like I love the live action show. I think it's the greatest tribute. Like to me, the live action. is like the best execution of a live action I've seen. And they could have really fucked it up and they didn't. And that part is what as a fan, it's so nice to see a live action get executed the way that Netflix has done it. That is so nice.

Yeah. And they have to do the whole comic, which I think is like probably 12 seasons. That would be, it's my favorite role I've ever done. There's a thousand episodes. And you know of the cartoon, there's a thousand episodes.

So I never. watched over a thousand. The cartoon because Oda Son picked me. Oda picked you? Oda picked you? Oda picked me. Is that, wait, do you know One Piece too?

Oh my God. Oh, I love that. I didn't know Oda was so deep in the live action. Oh, oh, yes. That's amazing. Have you met him? Fully, no, I'm hoping. Wow.

But he, you know, I just saw an interview that he did where, like every character that's on One Piece, He is like, that's his, he does background for the character, like for the actor and sees if, if they have that like energy and soul of the character, which I'm like, that's why it's good. It's crazy that he does that. That's why it's good. That's why it's good. That's why it's because.

Isn't that amazing? The artistic choices. That's why it's good. Because he looks at the each one of, and I'm telling you, each one of those actors are so much like they're in the best way. Like they are in the best way they're like their characters. Making the show. Did you get to, obviously you got to interact with all the, even though you're your part. I went to South Africa, yeah.

Okay. So was it fun? It was so fun. And seeing, you know, I had been acting off them, but on a big screen, you know, because they, you know, have the cameras up for me. And so I felt like I already knew them because I'd been working off of them. and they were they're just so lovely and so it's a really great cast it's a really good energy and a good group of people and everyone that works on the show is so passionate about the show and take such care of every little thing which is so beautiful again this is why i think that is whether any of them

knew about one piece some of them probably did i think you guys all have a sense of like oh shit we're doing something really like special here. We're doing something. I didn't even realize what this was. I didn't even know what it was, but I wanted it so, I felt so connected to him and I wanted it. I've never wanted a role like that. I've never been like, Stephanie, talk to them.

Did they say anything? Are they like, and I didn't know why. Didn't know why when I read the sides for him, why I was immediately like, I have to play him. Because it's that good. The sides were that good. They were that good. And it also felt aligned with who I am.

And I'm telling you, it's, it's because special is special. Mm-hmm. And we get distracted from special by other information. This much money or this much this or that or this or that or this or that. That's so true. Welcome. Hey, kid. You know what I mean?

Because it, you know, I will say like some of my reps don't know what one piece is. And they're like, I try to explain it. they're like cool that that's cool so i like i said i didn't know that you were i thought i was here for me i am a one piece so happy that makes me so okay so so then i have to ask you as a one piece freak what do you think of of chaw of that because i didn't know anything about chopper going in i didn't that i think that's perfect i think that sitting with you makes me really happy that you are chopper Really? Yeah, because you're a really, you're a kind person.

Oh, thank you. And you're smart. And you're like, there's something, there's something edgy about you that's in like an unsuspecting way. That's chopper. Really? Yeah. That's chopper. Chopper is like stronger than you think.

Because people. They underestimate. Yes. And I love that about him. And that is, I think, well, going back to, is it hard to be a pretty girl when you, you're trying to get goals that maybe, you know, that's what I meant by that question is not, have you been underestimated? That's the question.

Yes. And that's chopper. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And so when I sit with you, it makes me really happy because I didn't care if you knew One Piece or not. I'm not that kind of fan. I love One Piece.

It's not, I don't care if someone is into it or they know about it or they don't. I like sharing it because I love it. Yeah, I just think they've nailed it with the show. I wonder if it is because Oda I literally just saw this interview where he's like he's like I look into everybody's he's like yes the looks have a huge part to do with it with me not so much but I will say

like my friends are always like you're the way that I they're like the way you talk is so animated that if you were to put you in a movie someone would think you were a telenovela like it's so over the top and that works for chopper It's so, I don't feel like when I'm playing Chopper, I have to like overdo it or do anything. I'm just playing like I would if I was myself. Oh, you're being yourself.

Yeah. I actually think that's the point of art and life is like learning how to be ourself. Yeah. And I think too, Chopper has healed so much in me. I like, I didn't know how much I needed this role. My inner child has been more than therapy could ever do by playing this role. So I have so much gratitude for him and for one piece in general. But that's the thing is, is Chopper is not real.

Chopper is an idea that a guy came up with because he was making art. And he was telling a story that he needed to tell. And that's why I love Oda. And I love the whole world. It's storytelling. And art is that. Art is us telling stories so that people, they don't feel alone. Exactly. And music is that. That's what I love about music. All of it. Art is that. And we dismiss art

until it's big or whatever, right? So you get, I get everyone in the art space, we get dismissed until we're not. And the you that started, you know, when you came out here, you're 18, It's the same you. You just have more experience. You have more whatever. But what I'm saying is that what I see in the chopper role is you get to be you. And they picked you. And the fact that Oda picked you, the guy who created the thing, he's going to make the best choice.

He trusts his feeling about something. Whatever his process is. I'm going to look in their background. Whatever. It doesn't matter. It's a feeling. I don't know why. I just like that one.

And I'm just going to stick with how I feel. And then you have the agents and you have this, and you have that. And they're like, well, what about the one? The marketing says this. And the focus groups of that and the blah, whoa, whoa. Right. And you're like, no, no, no, no. No.

I feel. I think you learn whether it's him or who are the creator of something within time. There's like this critical moment that happens when we're in the art space where we create and we have a feeling and then we share it. and that feeling is agreed on. Someone else has that same feeling. And then we get momentum because we do that again and more people agree and then we do that again.

And then somewhere that becomes a hit of some kind. He had it with his comics. And then 20 some years later, it's bigger than it's ever been. That's not, wasn't his plan. You're on your journey and you've got to trust that your journey is the right one and that if you just become more you and not less you.

That choppers help me with that. And you'll find your path. But I don't think it's about success in the sense of what everyone else thinks it is. I agree with you a thousand percent. I think you'll have that. Continue to have that. You've already had it. You've had it.

Had it again. Had it again. But it's more like actually like learning about life. You know what I mean? You're speaking my language. Yes. And I think that when I am able to play chopper and when I book Chopper, it felt the most, you know, I always wanted to be like Penelope Cruz or like this like, you know,

Selma Hayek type. And it's like, who knew that the thing that helped me get the closest to myself is this little boy reindeer. But you being you could now, in my opinion, I think you're going to get the Selma Hayek role. I do. I think you're going to get a role you didn't think you would get. Thank you. Being you. Yeah. And I think you in that role will be more entertaining than you trying to be. Be somebody else.

And that's what I was trying to do. You know what I mean? Yes, exactly. It's like if I try to be the, when I came on and I was like, what is a rock star do? I think he does that. I'm going to try to be like that guy. And then I'm like, okay. And then I'm like, no, I'm not very good at being like bad.

Yeah. I'm not good at like being too wild. I'm not good at being too drunk. I'm not good at being any of these things. But I had to learn, like, actually, I think I just got to, like, be this. And then I'll be better at it. Yeah. And then at least it's more sustainable for me.

Yeah, and you're actually happy. And I'm happy. And I'm happy. And I know who I am. Yes. And I go, no, I don't like that. Yeah. I tried to be like that.

I don't like that. But I'm just saying, like, I think the more we get to be, the more we discover what it means to be us, we go back. And we go, oh, I actually think I come. It's not the role. The role, I think, if you do the role, you will kill it if it's you. The chopper role is you nailed it, like nailed it. You got like 100 out of 100.

Like you nailed it. Oh, thank you so much. And I don't know that. I'm sure it was hard work. Not really. It's the easiest role I've ever done. It doesn't feel like a stretch. It did not feel like a stretch.

And I feel like every role you do should feel like that. Agreed. It should align. You know? Yeah, but it's hard because exactly what you were saying, agents and managers and this person are trying to all fit you into this. The business. The business. You got to make it, here's how you got to do it.

Here's how you got to make it. There's no other way. But it's a thing. It's like, because you come in and you're like, who am I? I'm from fucking nowhere. You must know better than me. I mean. And so then you listen to that and you lose who you lose who you are.

I mean, I completely lost who I was. And it wasn't until I was like, if I don't start experiencing life and loving my life and stop trying so hard to quote unquote make it, that's when stuff started happening. But you were making it all along. That's so nice of you. Thank you. You were making it all along. Thank you.

It did not feel like that. Your ambition tells you that if I could just get here. Exactly. That's okay. We have to kind of know where we're pointing, but just also, I would say, from my perspective, you were making it all along. You were honing a craft. You were learning how this whole thing works.

It was the journey, yeah. It's the journey. And listen, none of us are satisfied. That's part of being in this business, though, isn't it? We wouldn't be attracted to this life. We want to be in the game every fucking second, every day. And that's a good thing. We can't deny that about ourselves.

We also have to trust the process and we have to measure things in relationship to our happiness versus like our what we were told was success when I was 18 was like a platinum record and sold out arenas and that's the only thing. That's all there is to it. It's good to get that stuff, but that can't be the measurement. That's not the thing. You know? There's something about like joy.

Yeah. And that's also, I mean, bringing it back to Chopper, like, I've had more fun playing this role. And I also think because it's been so easy and come so natural, when I go to work, I'm like, I'm never like, oh, I'm nervous. Or I'm like, I'm like, I get to be Chopper again. Like, it's a different feel than, than any other role because it's like, there's a part of me that is like, it felt, it feels just, it's so aligned with, with who I am and it got to open. I mean, it, like I said, it healed so much childhood trauma in me, Chopper has. And Chopper's biggest thing is he doesn't feel seen.

And so he's trying to make others feel seen. and that is my life in a nutshell. Like I'm constantly trying to, because you never, like you never know what somebody's going through and their own personal hell. And that has to do, you know,

with the OCD that I have. But I'm, I want people to, if there's one thing people take away from me, I always want to make them feel seen. And Chopper has that. And it's not like I had to like create that for Chopper. He just naturally had,

like that's just who he is because of his upbringing. and what he went through and the struggles that that he had. So being able to play a role like this, and that's why it is so important to me and is so precious. And there are people who are like, it's just an anime adaptation, and they don't take it as seriously as I do and aren't as passionate about it.

But it's something that has changed my life for the better and that I am so passionate about it. It's why I do conventions. Like I love doing conventions. I love it. I take it so seriously because if I had had, you know, I'm obsessed with scary movies. And- So is Nicole.

Really? Yeah, it's fucking really fun. Because she fucking falls asleep to them. And then you're still awake? And I'm stuck watching this goddamn last night. She's like, there's a really good show. I'll start it over if you want. Is it something very bad is going to happen?

No, it's Willow Bay or something. Oh, I've heard. That's so good. Okay. So first of all, I don't know what it is, but it's definitely not just a fucking, like, crime drama. It is like a scary fucking dark thing. She loves scary movies. And she's like, there's a great new show.

We can watch it together. I'll restart it. And I was like, I got out of the shower. And I was like, no, no, it's fine. Just finish watching it. I'm going to get ready. And then I'll like, and she watches movies in bed. I don't.

I hate TV. I don't want a TV in my room. It keeps me up. Oh, to watch TV. I fucking hate it. So she needs TV. She falls asleep. And then I'm watching this fucking show.

And I'm like, she didn't tell me it was scary. She told me it was like a crime drama or something. She's like, this is a really good thriller. It's like a thriller. And I'm like, what does that mean? So then I'm watching it and I'm like, it's scary. It's like there's something in the fog or something. And I'm like, and then I look over and I was like, this isn't a crime drama.

And I'm like, she's asleep. And I'm like, This happens all the time. And then I love her. And then I'm like watching it because I want to find out what happens, but it's like scary. I heard he's in the basement. Yeah, it's so freaky. I want to watch it.

It's fucking, I hate it because it gives me bad dreams. It like is not the way I like to go to bed. Let's watch this, babe. I don't want to watch this. Every time. And then she falls asleep and you're like, I have to finish it. It's the most psychotic thing about her is her movie choices. She watches scary movies

Like Rosemary's Baby It's one of my favorite movies of all time What else? Like even the comedies are like fucking Dark? Yeah I don't like Beetlejuice She loves Beetlejuice

I'm like a little dark and creepy Like still like I get Like I have an imagination So if something goes in my head When I go to sleep I dream weird dreams Whenever she's like Can we watch TV

Because it's kind of like Most of the time I'm just like Can you watch TV And then When I come in the room, I'm going to turn the TV off because you'll be asleep. And I know she's going to be asleep in 15 minutes. She's that. She couldn't fall asleep that fast?

Let me tell you something. When she says, let's start a new show. I'm like, what, so I can watch the first episode 10 times? It's like a joke. Like, let's do that together. I'm like, what, so I can watch episode one 10 times, 10 days in a row. And then, what? And then what happens is this.

She's like, let's start. This is what happened with the first season of beef. I watched this first episode 10 fucking times because I get hooked in. I'll watch four episodes. I'll be up until 2 a.m. watching four episodes. She's asleep. And then the next day I'm on episode like six, five or six. And she's like, are you ready to watch beats again?

And I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I'm on episode five. Oh, my God. She's the worst. She's amazing. She's the worst. She's the worst. Are we watching fucking Sex in the City again?

That's the other thing is she watches Sex and the City, girls, fucking, like, all these shows she has, like, these comfort shows. And she's like, like, I'm going to fall asleep, so I'm going to put Sex and the City on. And then you have to watch. I know every fucking episode of Sex in the City at this point. it's very vulgar by the way that show very vulgar so was girls by the way and adam driver's very mean to her he's very mean I never got into those shows I need to okay or do I not I don't know but it's either

like some girl show or a scary horrible scary movie that's like like really like disturbing Even like American horror story is just like disturbing. It's like or do you remember the substance? Yes. She woke up one night and she like couldn't sleep. I'll tell you why she woke up. Oh.

Because she like fell asleep too early and then like she fell asleep at 8 and I was like, you're going to wake up at 2 and turn the TV on, fell back asleep. And I woke up to the fucking substance. where the like woman is like exploding her face is exploding and I was half asleep and I was like what's happening talk about lucid dreaming I thought I was like what I was like what and she like it was loud our marriage TV balance is not great it's not great movie is horrifying it's horrifying I would not imagine waking up and seeing that. No.

Her face is exploding in like a theater and getting on people. And I was like, what? What's going on? No warning. I didn't know what movie it was. God, that's amazing. Yeah, it's bad. That's a great story.

I would say the most off-balanced thing of our relationship is our TV. Did she like One Piece? No, she's like, what is this? She would humor me and watch it. But she's like Freddie Cougar. It's tough. She like scary or feminine. Wow.

I love her. I think she'd like one piece if she gave it a chance. Yeah. Because she did get into like Game of Thrones. Yeah, so I think she would. Way late though. I still haven't watched Game of Thrones. How?

I know. You are. I know. You know what though? I'm jealous. Because I get to watch it. You get to experience like eight seasons. of great TV.

Yeah, that's how I feel about Breaking Bad or, like. She loves Breaking Bad. I love Breaking Bad. That's dark too. I like dark. I don't like it at night. Breaking Bad. There's a darkness to it.

You have such a piercel? It just makes me disturbed. Really? Yeah. Wow. And it's great. I love, in theory, I love it. Like, it's not that I didn't love Breaking Bad.

I did, but like it's weird. Probably triggers you. Does something to me. Yeah, it triggers. Yeah, it's a little dark. Your body remembers. But also that's the testament to the incredible work they did. Yeah.

Because you get lost in the story. You forget you're watching, you know. I think that Brian Cranston and Aaron are like such a good duo and they cast the show. Like I don't know. That show is just a great piece of work. It's a masterpiece. Yeah, yeah. It's one of those.

It's a masterpiece. Yeah. I think beef is the same way, though. Like I, season one of Beef, I was, I wanted to live in that work. world. Even though it was it was uncomfortable and icky, I wanted to, I just was so blown away. And the same with the second season is the actors on on it like Oscar Isaac. I don't know if you carry Mulligan. Like you know what though? They again, it's like to me like the great modern television are like really good interesting choices. Yes. And it brings something new like. Like,

Like the old, we need a, we need a big star in this show. We need a name. Always. Put them on the poster. We need to sell tickets. The new way is like more artistic. I pray to God you're right. I think I am.

I hope so. It doesn't mean that the big name doesn't like in the right. What we, what I think now the modern lessons are like just because the big name doesn't mean it's always going to be like amazing. Yeah. And just because you don't not, you don't. know that person, it isn't going to be amazing. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So like it's more to me back to artistic choices where artists make choices of a feeling like I don't know I like this guy. There's

something about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's there's something about I mean that's why you connect to certain certain actors. There's something about them on screen. They have a magnetism to them that that you want to know more. And so back to you. I think that it, experience you've had, which has been, you have a very established career that you should be really proud of. Thank you. The chopper role is, it's the first time I went, who's that? And then I, then I realized I knew you, that I didn't, you know what I mean?

So that's a, I love that. And then what I think is the chopper role, because I'm such a fan of you in that role, I think your world is opening up in a way that you deserve. Thank you. So think that like maybe people were looking at you from the wrong angle. Agreed. And then this is this is going to be really interesting, not only to watch this live, this show over the next many seasons they do it. And Chopper's such a great character, but also like what people have discovered about you, which I think you could see it all along.

Well, and you know what's crazy too is right before I had the audition for Chopper, I was with a. an acting coach who I was leaving and I turned around and I said to her, I just wish I had a different voice. I've tried to work on my voice for years and I can't get it deeper and I hate my voice so much. And she stopped me and she was like, your voice is your calling card. Your voice is what makes you so you and different and able to play these interesting roles. and because you're bringing something so different.

And I was like, wait, really? Because nobody had ever said, everybody had always said, you need to change your voice. You need to change your voice. You need to deepen your voice. You need to. And so I was always trying to do, be somebody else. And then two weeks later, I got the audition.

Isn't that funny? For a chopper. But, but you know, your subconscious wanted you to have that conversation. It's so beautiful that she said that and that I was like, thank you so. I mean, I was so taken back. Did you believe her at the time? Or did you just kind of go like, because she is, he's an acting coach that I hold. I mean, you have a lot of respect for her. She does everyone. And so it was like the fact that she said that and I know that she's not full of shit. I was like, wow. Like that means so much. And it did mean so much. And I clearly took it

into the next chapter of my life. Yeah, it's funny, though, because I actually think you're our subconscious, and then maybe I'm going off too much you're about. No, I like this. I think I like what you're about to say. I think our subconscious is really wise and knows, and a little psychic. Yes. And the subconscious knows when it's time.

Yeah. To put something to bed, to do something, to learn something, to fix something. And it leads us whether we realize it or not. So we think we're frustrated. It's actually our subconscious poking us. I think in that moment your subconscious is like, okay, get it out. Say it. I hate my voice.

Why am I never going to be taken seriously? Why is no one ever going to see this talent because of the voice? This is the me that's received information thinks. This is the me that has received. I say this too for everyone listening, for people listening that are like, you think you're frustrated about something about yourself. but what if it's one of your greatest attributes and you are looking at it all wrong? And what if we need to go all the way around to get back to that?

So what if you had discovered that you love your voice when you were 18, when you were 21, when you were 23, would you love it as much as you do now? No. You know what I mean? Yeah. What if it was all so that you would actually cherish yourself as much as you do in this moment in your life right now. That's what I think when I go, why did it take me so long to get all the way to hear? What if I was always supposed to just be on that? Yeah, but it took me so long

to realize that. All of us. All of us. Why? Why when you, why at 40 do things seem, because people, people tell, especially women, they're like, oh, 40, like, I mean, people told me like, you haven't made it by 40. What are you doing? Like, why are you still around? That's the biggest load of bullshit. It couldn't be. After 40, I was like, oh, I just started living. But I'll tell you why you look like you're fucking 29. Oh, thank you. Because you're happy. You think? You, I promise you, you, you look older when you're not happy. Yeah. Everyone says, like, how do you do that? How do you? And that's why you and Nicole look so young. I don't even know if we look young. I think we're just, I think we just are comfortable in our own skin.

And the energy. We're not fighting against anything. We're not trying, like, we're not trying to be the biggest this or trying to be, like, we just are where we are. Is it, are we perfect? Or is it figured out? All figured out? No.

But we like each other. So nice to hear that that exists in Hollywood, though. It does, but it starts with you just liking yourself. But that's rare, too, in Hollywood. I think so because it's such a business of scrutiny. Like how do you look? Oh, you better get this. You better get in shape.

I mean, it's you're not tall enough. You're not pretty enough. You're not this enough. It's it's constantly for the last 20 years. It's been, I mean, you'd have to it's, there's a bit of insanity. It's insanity. Like, why would I put myself through that for so long? Why?

Why would I keep going? But I think there was something that I always knew. Keep going. It's going to, it'll happen. You know? It'll, your talent will eventually come. Well, it's happening big time for you. Oh, thank you.

But I also think that it's part of your, like, your growth and your, like, your journey. Your journey with all of it. I think it's just like, the timing is, like, true to itself. Yeah. Because, like, I don't know if I would like your story if it was any other way. That's really nice. You know what I mean? Yeah.

There's only a couple more things I want to ask about. Mm-hmm. I know you're tight with James Gunn. Mm-hmm. He's been very like... It's like my older brother, yeah, for two decades, yeah. I think those people are also like so important to our direction, our growth, do you know what I mean? He was my first call when I booked one piece that I just said someone in the end, you know,

and he said your life just changed. But he saw it. You guys have collaborated a bunch. Yeah. And like you guys see that in each other. That to me is like those people, the people that see us. There's a few people like that in my life that like saw me the whole way. I'd say my therapist is actually one of them too.

Like I feel like he's like he saw me when I first came in and sat on his couch and he was like, you could be a lot more than. I love him. You know what I mean? I was like, what do you mean a lot more? I'm fucking rock star. He's like, yeah. He's like, that ain't what it's about.

And then like a year or two later, I was like, now I know what it's about. It has nothing to do with this. This is all just what we do. You know, the work is work. We're going to work on stuff and impress people because it looks like we're doing a magic trick. When you do chopper, it looks like a magic trick to the rest of us. We're like, whoa, oh my God, how do you do that? Just being yourself.

And you're like, I think I can jump over that hoop. I think I can climb that mountain. You have the stuff, but like it's something else. It's like this. It's like, who am I? That's the actual like journey. So why do you think that so many, because you sit with so many people that why do you think there is a like why do you think actors and musicians and it's never enough like what is it is it a

a whole that that we're trying to constantly fill is it a is it a validation is it insanity is it why is it never wow okay you know it's enough and when does it become enough my perspective I think self-esteem most of us come in with a wounded self-esteem. 1,000% like most all of us. All of us. You can't be in this without it.

And then we get, we overcompensate. When we get success, it turns kind of into a bit. The self-esteem never gets fixed. So we kind of get this inflated self-esteem so that we can hold our own in the role because we don't feel like we're good enough.

Like imposter syndrome? Right. So we just inflate ourselves. So we either become assholes or whatever. that gets mixed up with a love for what we do because we are artists and we do love what we do. Yes. So those things get mixed up because I still want to write songs and I still want to create. But if having a hit is the only thing that makes me special and good enough, then I always have to have a hit.

You can't live like that. That can't because then the art gets, it's not pure anymore because we're thinking about the hit. Exactly. And we're not thinking just about the art. And the art when we started was just expression. Yes. And so what we have to do is separate the art from the result. And the result has to be measured later, way later, not on release day, but more like, one day I'll look back on that and see if I thought that was a success or not.

Because a hit movie doesn't always mean it's a good success for you. You could have a hit movie and it could be the worst thing that ever happened to you because you got pigeonholed into this one thing and you didn't even know. why you did it because your agent talked to you into it and then everyone's like oh it's a hit and you're like why do I it's exciting but I also don't like fucking feel great about it because I don't care about it when there's this thing over here so it's weird because like if that's the only measurement that is success that it's a hit don't think that's a true measurement because what defines a hit is usually numbers and numbers don't relate to feelings and how we feel is more something like I'm happy yes and that feels like success we have to separate

them. And then we also have to understand our self-esteem. And then if what you have is not dumb luck, what I have is not dumb luck. We put our, we aimed up and we started going towards it. And however long it took us to get there, we never stopped. And that's where when people are, the people that are listening that are working through some problem in their life, because everyone is, the idea that it's worth it to try and get back up and try again and try again. It's the most important thing. And you will get there. So to me, us talking about our experience, it connects them in. They hear you talk and they relate to a person and they realize like it's not just a pretty girl.

But I do think there was a brokenness in us that kept us at it. Like if you are just a, which God bless you, if your life has just been amazing and perfect and happy home life and all of that stuff. but I do think there is something about this business that attracts a certain type of trauma and damage. And so, you know, we get into it and then we kind of go the long way, like you're saying, of like discovering who we are and figuring out that trauma and why we need that external validation and what that is. The last thing I'll say, and I live my life by this, at some point I realized. debt. The check is there. You're going to pay it. So even the person that everyone thinks has it easy,

or maybe it's, if you don't dig in and do some work somewhere in your life, and all of us have a different place. Some of us, it might be our inner work because we have some trauma. Some people don't have trauma. But some people, it might be their work work. They're not digging in and building anything. Some people, it might be their relationships. Some people, it might be their health, whatever it is. If you don't dig in and work on yourself in some way, shape, or form, you can run away from it your whole life. Somewhere you will have a check that you have to pay. Some people, it's health. It's for all of us. And it's they, you know, it's, some people, it's their relationships. If you're not being, if you're not investing in your kids and spending

time with your kids, it will come back to you. It'll, it'll, it'll, it'll, the check will be there. And what I realized was like, oh, I got to do the work. So I just want to get up every day and just try to pay the check everywhere I can. You know, and some days better than others. Some areas better than others. But like, that's my mantra because I don't want to get to a spot in my life where the bill is too big and I can't pay it. Whatever I'm running away from. Everybody has that somewhere in their life, you know?

You're right. Every single one of us does. All of us, too. It doesn't matter who you are. but thanks for coming on I'm so grateful this was so wonderful for me thank you

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