Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Mike Einziger of Incubus

Episode Date: February 14, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Mike Einziger of Incubus. This past fall, vocalist Brandon Boyd stopped by to discuss the anniversary of their fourth studio album, Morning View, and now Einziger takes a seat across from Madden as the band prepare to release Morning View XXIII — rerecorded songs of the original album — in May. The two also go in-depth about skincare routines while discussing Mother Science, the biotech brand Einziger launched with his wife. Incubus will play Morning View in full, plus other tracks, on their upcoming tour with Coheed and Cambria in late August. You can view all the dates and grab tickets here. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden and this is artist friendly. On this episode, I'm talking with Grammy nominated musician and co-founder of the band Incubis, also founder of the biotech company, Mother Science, Mike Eindsinger. Let's go. Picking up is nice, but a lot of times I'll see someone out there and then we'll talk for 30 minutes and then we miss like good stuff no we actually haven't spoken yeah we've texted but we haven't like actually spoken that's it and we haven't actually been in the room together and if honestly if we think about it probably like ears oh for sure have we ever run into you i think i think i think the last time i saw you was a hetty's house in mall way way back this must have been

10 years ago crazy i think we've been in a couple of rooms together but Just like in passing. Yeah. I've seen you a couple places. Like, I don't know if it was like Grammy's week or Oscars week or some event. I've seen, but it was in passing. It was like, hey, good to see you. But it's like a packed room and everyone's, you're moving that way and I'm going this way,

which is always nice, but always like hard to see people when you're in a packed room full of, of so much personality. And then also like, I find those big parties. well sometimes I enjoy it I have to say if on the right night it's nice to get dressed up and go with your wife and go to if you're with the right group of people you can go have a fun time but it's very hard place to see someone that you actually really like and want to like catch up with and have a real meaningful conversation absolutely I know we've seen each other at some I forget where but I but but it's been a few years

it's definitely been a while but i follow you on instagram so i feel like i'm tuned into your life exactly as much as as much as we can as much as you want me to be uh what the things you show uh and you know nicole you guys go way back way back and she loves you love her you get a real warm response whenever i bring your name up when you started mother science because i've followed and i want to know about how you started it but But when you started your, would you call it like a skincare company or more of like a wellness company? Like what would you call it?

A biotech company. Biotech. Yeah, we were not planning on. We had no plans to start a skincare company. We weren't even planning to start anything that had to do with like, you know, a consumer company. We were trying to answer a scientific question. Right.

And then once we, you know, got to a certain point with that, then we had to make a decision about what we were going to do with the technology that we developed. And commercializing it was sort of a different endeavor than investigating a scientific hypothesis. Right. And they're wildly different things, you know. Okay. So I want to know about that. And I have a million questions. So, but before I go there, when you started talking about it, I said to Nicole,

oh, Mikey started a skincare, in my mind. I was like, oh, a skincare product. Well, by the time you found out about it, it was, that's what it was. And then I dug into it and the information you give when you look into the product is super science focused. So it makes sense that you're saying it's a biotech company. Now, this is one of the products that the technology can, that applies, right? Yeah, we wanted the best and highest use of the technology and also to get the technology into the commercial world in the most expedient way possible.

And an accessible way that people could experience one aspect of the technology, right? That's right. So when I told Nicole, oh, Mikey started a skincare. So very base level. She was probably like, huh? No, she was like, I totally see that. Because I said there's a there's an aspect of there's a proprietary quality or characteristic of the product. I was starting to break it down for her because I get super interested in innovation.

And when I see someone. And so we have a ton of stuff to talk about because I think artists are some of the most innovative people because we come from a more a different angle. And we have a creative kind of approach to things. and we don't live inside boxes. So anything's possible in our mind, right? Absolutely. So when I told her, yeah, Mike started a skincare thing and I bought some and it's amazing,

she was like very excited because she loves you. That makes me happy too. I just, you know, it's like I haven't seen Nicole in a long time either. I probably saw her the last time I saw you. Yeah. And, you know, but we go way back. Yeah.

By the way, I was just talking to Catherine Power right before I got here. Love Catherine. And Catherine says hi. And she was like, tell Joel. I say what's up. Yeah. And she thinks it's like, I told her that you were using Mother Science and she was just like, she was like, that's so awesome.

She was so happy about it. Yeah. I swear by it now. So before we talk about Incubis, because I want to talk about Incubis, I want to talk about incubis. I want to talk about where you started and where you're at. But Mother Science, here we are. So we're already talking about it.

And I'm because I use it. So I'm a big fan. Well, that makes me super happy too. so well i see honestly so i'm a big uh i wouldn't say i'm like a skin care junkie because i'm not but i just like to get something that works absolutely and use it every day yep and this is since i started using this i swear people Nicole and my you know people my friends whatever ask about my skin some days right you're like what on a good day when I've got enough sleep and I've drank enough water. But I can see a difference

in and and not only can I see a difference when I use it, but, but for me it's how it feels. So I've tried everything. I don't like a greasy face feeling. I need something that goes on after the shower and I feel good. Yep. Right? And I feel like, because after I get out of the shower, I just feel dry. Yep. And so I need like a serum of some kind and I've been trying expensive stuff. I tried keels. I tried this.

The whole spectrum of everything you could try. And I always think like, oh, I kind of found it. It's good enough. And then when I tried Mother Science, done. I ordered like eight bottles because I don't want to run out. You just got four more. And I got four more. I swear by it.

And I tell all my friends, I'm like, yo, try that. You'll never use anything else. Well, it's funny. And at last, the bottle, you get one squirt. Yeah. It goes on. A whole bottle, it feels like it's a really great product. It's very simple.

And it does something really good for your skin, which is, you know, which was obviously, like, our hope was that it would, you know, have that kind of impact. So I'm super happy to hear you say all that. And what I was going to say is, um, I was really surprised. I'd never posted anything on my social media about really any product, specifically not a skincare product. So when it came time,

like, you know, we've been developing the technology behind Mother Science for six years before. And what is the tech? So it's a molecule called malisein that is naturally produced in the microbiome of your skin. It's produced in small amounts, but it does really good things for your skin. And there are a lot of compounds that are naturally produced in the skin.

Compounds like, and when I say compound, I mean molecule. Yeah. You know, hyaluronic acid is naturally produced in the skin. Azzalic acid is produced in the skin. You know, lots of different vitamins are produced in the skin naturally. And, you know, over the years, over the decades, people have figured out if you give more of some of these things to your skin, it really likes it. It's really good. It's not that way with all things, but your skin likes

hyaluronic acid to a degree. And basically, malisein is something that is produced naturally in the skin microbiome that we sort of came upon. And we weren't the ones who discovered its existence, but we were the first to basically use it for some purpose. We wanted to understand what was causing this sort of lightning effect that happens in a very harmless skin condition called Tenaa Versa color. I don't know if you're familiar with that, but it's a skin condition that happens on, you know, most people at some point in their lives. It's one of the most common skin conditions on earth where you just get these lightened

areas. And my wife, Anne-Marie, she was in India at the time this happened. she just noticed that she had these like lightened areas of skin on her. It was kind of on her back. And we wanted to understand like she kind of just had this realization like, wow, I have this like totally, it's harmless. It's just sort of a change in appearance. Right.

And my wife was like. Is it with age or is it? No, it happens to actually mostly to young people. Okay. It can happen to anybody, but most commonly it affects people age 15 through 25. Okay. So kind of is more prominent on the skin of young people. Okay.

But in response to this sort of thing that happens to your skin, your microbiome produces more of this substance called malaysan. And we just sort of have this hypothesis that it could be sort of having this, you know, brightening effect on the skin. And Anne-Marie just said, well, what if you could use this? this compound for a benefit formulated into a skincare product and you know potentially you know improve like dark spots on people yeah that was sort of the ethos behind it but then we learned a lot more about it you know it's a very potent antioxidant um and it has a very profound calming effect on the skin and that's how it impacts texture lines and wrinkles and things like that um which is all super fascinating you know

we dug into this scientifically. We surrounded ourselves with, you know, lifelong pharmacologists, you know, dermatologists, a dermatologist named Dr. Pearl Grimes, who's spent her entire career researching pigmentation. Pearl Grimes? Yeah, Dr. Pearl Grimes. Grimes. Yeah, she's amazing. Yeah.

She's here in L.A. And, you know, we have a team of people that, that have spent their lives studying skin physiology, you know, like cellular signaling in the skin and how these systems talk to each other and work with each other. And for me, I just got obsessed with it from a scientific perspective. I wasn't like a skincare, you know, fanatic in any way, shape, or form. This was sort of like a Rubik's cube I wanted to solve. And it's like any other thing, you know, like you were saying, creativity and innovation, for me, whether it's musical or otherwise, it doesn't matter. It's all the same thing. It all scratches the same itch for, for, for.

me. So once I get obsessed with something like that, like I kind of can't put it down. Yeah, you're kind of like a, you're a gamer. Yeah. You see a problem, a Rubik's Cube of some sort and you want to solve it. A lot of the guys and people over history that are the great kind of like inventors, innovators, um, imaginers, um, not necessarily, uh, well learned students So imagination does come into A hundred percent. Creative comes in. Absolutely.

But I always say to when I talk to, you know, most of the time I spend these days in my work life is building companies and executing ideas that we think would work for more people, whether it's the music company or the media company or the tech company. or the tech company, most of it is how do we have a creative approach in an organization that can build things at scale. So we need all the different kinds of people in the organization. We need people that are more organized and administrative,

but we need creativity because creativity always kind of, you think outside the box and you come up with ideas. And you're naive enough to believe you could come up with a new way. one of the most powerful things is that in certain cases that naive mindset can be very, very valuable. Like you can, you sometimes like, you know, the dumb question that like a five year old would ask is really like the one that no one's asking but needs to be asked. If it were simple, how would we do it? You need one side of the conversation to be grounded in information. And one side of the conversation has to be head in the clouds,

creative. When you find a good match, really it's powerful. And some people can do both. Some people have the brain, both sides of the brain are working. I think it's possible for everyone to develop their brain work on both sides. But I think part of your success is you kind of do have a little bit of both. You're a creative guy. But it feels like you were you a good student? I was a horrible student when I was young. Okay. But were you always interested in like science and? I was, but I had sort of a, I would call an adversarial relationship with academics

as a young person. You questioned everything? I was just, you know, I just didn't like being told what to do, I guess. And I had a lot of energy and my mind was just sort of all over the place. But then I went to college as an adult and that was a totally different experience for me. Did you do well? Yeah, I did really well. That's awesome.

Yeah, that was like, it was actually a very rewarding experience for me because, I felt in many ways. Didn't you go to Harvard? I did. Oh, wow. I don't want to say I felt defeated by academics as a kid because it was like I just never felt good about it. And it wasn't necessarily, it wasn't because I didn't think I could do it. You know, I was like, you know, putting gifted education as a young kid.

Actually, that's where I met Brandon. We were in sixth grade and we were in the gifted program together. Oh, wow. But I kind of hated that because, you know, we were expected to do more. and I didn't react well to that. But did you want to be in gifted? No. It was sort of a, you know, when you're in sixth grade, you're like, you know,

nine years old or 10 or whatever. Right. And, you know, I think that was just like my parents, you know, they wanted the best for me. They wanted me to get the best education that I could. But I had my own stuff going on, you know, as a young kid. And then when I, you know, when I had the opportunity to go to college as an adult, the learning experience that I had was just violently different.

Yeah. Like it was, you know, my whole, I didn't feel like my whole future depended on my success or failure. I was there to learn. Right. And so I sort of went in, you know, with this mindset that I'm going to, I'm going to study music academically for the first time in my life because I was really just a self-taught musician. But then when I got to Harvard, I realized, like, I can.

and study whatever I want. Did you know music theory when you started learning music? No. Oh, wow. I always assumed, it's funny, I've always regarded you as like one of the great guitar players. Thank you for saying that. I'm a good faker, but I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. That's funny because I always thought you, I was like, he must be classically trained.

I just listened to a lot of interesting music. I think as a young kid and was influenced by people who were really good. at playing. So I think maybe I could, you know, fake my way to make making people think I, like, understood what I was doing, but I was just emulating, you know. Well, at some point, you actually did learn it. And I would say a bunch of people agree that you're a great guitar player. Oh, thank you. And you have a really cool take. Like, well, thank you for me. I told Brandon, I was like, Mikey's like a freaky genius with guitar. But it's cool because it's perspective. it's your take on guitar, and it doesn't seem like it's constricted by any other kind of rock music.

I mean, I just listened to like kind of the most idiosyncratic mix of music when I was young. You know, I was all over the place. Like I just, I was interested in so many things for better or worse, you know, like just never felt sort of hampered by, you know, have to sound this certain way. And I was like that almost like with my friends too. Like I had friends that were like, you know, like stoner metal heshers, we used to call them. Yeah. You know, punk rock kids, skaters. You know, surfers, you know, like the sort of like jocks and stuff.

Like I kind of was just friends with everybody. I didn't really have any particular identity. I mean, I was like a, I guess you could sort of loosely categorize me as like a surfer skater kid. but I just sort of seamlessly like kind of like I was friends with everybody. Like I didn't, I mean, I knew that like there were these sort of different friend groups, sort of clicks, but I just was cool with everybody, you know, and I feel like my approach, and I never considered it like an approach. I'm just talking about it that way sort of retrospectively.

That's just how I roll through life, you know, like I just kind of absorbed everything. And I was that way with music. Like I would listen to Slayer and the Grateful Dead and, you know, Led Zeppelin and, you know, Stravinsky and like I would listen to just everything and like, you know, the Minutemen and fire hose. Like I was just taking all of that in and all of it was fascinating to me. And so when we started the band, it was kind of like, oh God, like, what is this going to, what is all this going to equal? But I wasn't even thinking of it that way. That's just what I was acting out and, you know, writing all of our. first songs and doing all that it was just like again it was just like the most fun that was just the it was like the greatest time like i'd rather be doing that than anything else in the world if you could say there was a record or a handful of records that really kicked off your interest in guitar what were those records i mean the first songs that i really started learning how to play on guitar that i could teach to myself were like early like metallica songs right like you know like like like fade to black

like one yeah um like you know like like like that was just like you know again it's like that like solving that puzzle you know like these are like little puzzles that I'm trying to solve and like and actually having a little bit of success at it like wow I can play this now I can play in front of my my brother and I can play it in front of my my friends yeah it was like a cool party trick you know like everyone didn't know how to play that stuff back then right so those were like really formative, but you know, that was a really formative period of time. I was about 12. You know, I was at a friend's house and his older brother was playing Van Halen songs in his room on his guitar. And I was just like, mesmerized. I was just like, I got to do that. I'm gonna do that. So, Anna Mena. And like my music, my hair changed with me and has to be able to continue my rhythm. For so, Potion Nine, of Sebastian Professional, has all what my hair needs. Nutrition Profunda, Protection Contrapsed Controuped, 99% less,

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my first concert, but even just seeing other kids play and I was mesmerized that they

could do that for real. Like it was like magic to me to see that you know at age 12.

You make that sound come out of that? I mean, you know, I actually picked the guitar up when I was eight because I was really into rock music. I loved, like, Van Halen and, you know, there was all this, like, really cool music in the early 80s. I wanted to do that, you know? I thought that was cool. And, like, my mom got me this little guitar and this little amp, and I started taking lessons.

But it was like, I was learning how to play, like, you know, learning how to read notes off of a page. And it didn't, I didn't connect that to, like, Van Halen. in any way. It was like they were totally different. And I had no one to show me. You know, like if I had somebody, if I had like mentorship at that age, like here's how this sounds like that. And someone showed it to me. I would have been hooked right then and there. But I put it down at that age because I just thought like this is boring. This doesn't feel this isn't what I want to be doing. And I got bored with it quickly. And then at age 12, you know, seeing my friend's older brother play the way he was playing through an amp in his room. And it sounded like that.

I was like, oh, I was obsessed. I think there's something to genuine interest and discovering something on your own. 100%. It's almost like a key to the journey. Like you have to find it. It's the authenticity of it. Yeah. I think what other parents ask me like, how do I get my kid into music?

That's a really hard question to answer because I've found with music, especially with artists who have careers. And at MDDN, a big part of what we do is artist development. So we find people really early. We think are special. And then we don't know how long development takes. It could take you 10 years. Some people, it's two.

And they're out there and their songs are getting big. And so it's hard to answer the question of like how or when. There's more of just a feeling of like, oh, that's special. Yeah, like what makes you happy? What makes you feel good? Yeah. Like the way I always answer that question, because I get asked it a lot, is the thing that I did not have when I was really young,

that I think sort of at least gave me what I needed at age 12 was there was a disconnect between the music that I liked, that personally was inspiring to me, but then like what I could play. Right. know so I think that a good place to start with respect to that question about you know what do you teach a kid or what do you tell a parent who wants to like you know get their kid into music it's like what does the kid like music you know are they interested what are they what are they into like is if the kid like loves you know lady gaga or what like my daughters like love lady gaga so

they play violin you know their mom's a violinist she teaches them you know according to like the Suzuki method but they also learn songs that they just like to play. And when they can play those songs, like there's a joy that comes out of that. Yep. That's sort of like that's, to me,

that's like what will drive everything. Like once you have that feeling of like being able to play a song that you genuinely connect with, it feels way different than like reading notes off of a page or like playing something someone else asked you to play. Like there are reasons to do that. But I think if you start from a place like, you know this is my favorite song learn your favorite song and somebody might be like well that's

too hard for you fuck that try it you'll you'll be able to get it you know what i mean like nothing's that hard that you couldn't like you just can't even attempt it yeah you know so i think that's like the best place to start that's kind of where where i always go is we'll have your has your kid asked if they've asked great feed the beast whatever they want if they want to try piano or guitar They can't do it because you want them to. Right. I mean, you can. There's a version of that.

There's a version of you forcing your kid to do a lot of things. And there are some things that are important, like eating right or whatever. I mean, you know, there's, but finding the version of it that they enjoy is part of that. I think likely the age you started because, you know, 12 is still young enough. I mean, it's young to get into something. Also, I think it sounds like your parents allowed it and they were supportive, which is a big part of... My mom was a music teacher when I was a kid. Oh, that's cool.

So she, you know, she was very supportive of me and my brother and my sister making music in the house. She was supportive of, you know, the band. Our first rehearsal we ever had was in our living room. And then we ended up having kind of a rehearsal space in the garage. And none of that would have been possible if, you know, my mom wasn't supportive of that. So she, and she really was.

And what about your dad? My dad's a doctor. He's an amazing guy. I don't think his first choice would have been for me to be a musician. Right. Like he didn't quite get it. I think he just, you know,

he grew up in a different generation. You know, he wanted me to get, you know, the quickest route from point A to point B to have a successful life. Right. And he didn't want me to have to struggle. So I think like in his mind,

he would always tell me, not to be a doctor, by the way. But I think that he, you know, wanted me to take the, what he perceived to be the straightest route, which is like, you finish school, you go to college, and then, you know, in today's world, obviously, that's kind of all out the window. Yeah, that doesn't. It doesn't mean that I don't think there's value in college. I think there's incredible value for college, but it just depends on the person and what they're into. I mean, I didn't go that route. I went to college, you know, as an adult, and, you know, I didn't even finish.

So I just got distracted by other things. Whatever it is you needed to get out of that question you needed to answer by going. I got more out of that two years than I ever could have imagined. Yeah. And I think where I run into problems sometimes is I overanalyze things and always look for the value of everything I do. Sounds like a good thing. So it can be good, but it can also get in your way.

So I always have to remind myself to get out of my own way. sometimes there's a feeling versus an idea of you if you find a good balance for that you know like yeah my kids get tired of me going oh yeah you know what there'll be a lot of value in that what you can do is and then we and i start i start trying to get into some process where they're more like i just feel this way i want to do this and there's a lot of value in that people who can act on instinct and have good instincts and talent have success uh there is something about speed sometimes definitely So if we look at something and we can process, if we can analyze something and go, this needs to be done this way. There are processes that take a long time and inside that process, there's many processes that actually can all be quick and they can all lead to things in the bigger, greater process.

And then there's opportunities that you need to be able to be quick because it's an opportunity that your instinct tells you yes. There are moments of like momentum. Right. That can really trigger the bigger process, right? So I always kind of analyze, zoom in, zoom out, zoom in, zoom out. And I try to get it right. But a lot of it is just learning how your brain works and how you function. Yeah.

I've found that therapy over the years has just helped me learn how to organize how I think about things. Yeah. You know, just sort of like it's almost like when you feel, You know, that feeling you get if you have all these things you need to do and you make a list, you know, like you at least feel like, okay, you got a handle on this. Yeah. It's kind of like that. Yeah. You know, for your life. Are you kind of like a big ADD, ADHD guy? Yeah. I mean, you know, I don't think I was ever like, was ever like officially diagnosed as ADHD or ADD, but most of us aren't though. I mean, you know, I, I definitely have that aspect of my personality. Like my, my. my mind just wanders into all sorts of different places. And that was a challenge that I had continually as a young person, just not being able to sit still and not being able to focus on anything unless I was obsessed with it. And then I would like sort of singularly get focused on certain things.

That's the strength of it. Pointed at the wrong thing, you're, you feel insane. Pointed at the right thing, you feel hyper-focused. Yeah. And obsessive in all the right ways where you can actually achieve things. Because you've also done a lot of songwriting and done tongue. You just, you're, you've been involved with so many artists. I've definitely like had a, had a fun time, like working on lots of different things,

you know, getting to create music with my band, you know, work with other artists, you know, work on film scores. Yeah. Like just a lot of different things. Didn't you work with Hans? Yeah. Do you still? Not currently, but, you know, he's like a, you know, he's like a, you know, he's like a,

family member, you know, like we're, we're close, we'll always be close. Legend. And we spent a lot of time together, you know, in Anne-Marie, my wife and I, when we first sort of got together, Hans was kind of like, like a person that we had in common. Right. And Anne-Marie had been sort of like Hans's musical right hand for a while. Like when we first got together and Hans and I were friends for years and we always would kind of like, you know, joke around like, oh, when are we going to make music together? You know, we'd always kind of dance around that idea. And we would just sort of hang out.

And he's like one of the most conversationalally gifted humans on Earth. Cool. He's so fun to talk to. And so that's the kind of friendship we had. And then once we sort of triangulated this whole thing like, well, you work with Anne-Marie. And like, we're all, you know, we're all close with each other. We ended up scoring a bunch of films together, working together, just becoming really, really close. so we did a lot together

and then Hans back in I think it was 2016 you know he would say to me like I just want to do what you do you know like I want to play I don't want to be making music in a dark room with no windows right like he's like I want to play music in front of people right he would say that all the time

so when he decided like I want to put on a show like you know Anne Marie and I were there for that and we helped him you know put together his set list yeah kind of helped them organize how to do it Yeah, like, that was really fun. You know, my relationship with him up until that point was really like him sort of sharing his world with me. So it gave me an opportunity to kind of share some of my world with him. You know, like, this is how we play shows and this is what we do and this is how we tour.

And, and, you know, not that he was like, you know, like, he didn't need my help for anything. Well, experience is one of the, like, I think what we do in rock music because it's kind of a, an accessible version of music because we're not scoring a symphony and it's maybe not looked at as

as complicated. Actually, executing a good live show is a complicated, precise thing. For sure. It's not easy to be a great live band.

No. And so executing something live in real time, it takes experience, practice, and talent. confidence too what's that confidence confidence like self-belief yeah precision if someone's out there listening to this and they're like i have this idea and i've started my company but i don't know how to do that

they could likely look to their community and find someone who is good at that and ask them for help we don't do that a lot especially artists we're shy to ask people hey would you come help me do this i need and i've never done this before and i think that's a great example of pulling resources and in community. Yep. And it's also why being conscious of your community, being a good productive member of your community, but also picking people you respect

and spending your time with people you respect and admire. Well, there's no better collaborator that I've ever met than Hans Zimmer. It feels like that. He is just, he works with a lot of different people. And, you know, there are some people in the world that would criticize him for that. You know, like, oh, he's got all these other people.

And it's like, no, the guy just really knows how to collaborate. And it's what has sustained his career for decades and decades and decades of making this incredible music and not just making the incredible music, collaborating with directors and creating these audiovisual masterpieces. And it's not just like, yeah, he's a great musician, but there are a lot of great musicians. His superpower is his ability to collaborate. And, you know, when he wanted to tour, you know, like, it was really fun and exciting because it was like this new chapter for him. And it was really fun for me to be able to be around that.

Didn't he do a bowl show? I think I went where he performed somewhere. So at the time that Anne-Marie and I were with Hans and performing with him, it was all in Europe. And it was his very first time doing that. So he was like, you realize like, if I'm going to go do this tour, he was like, I'm taking Anne-Marie with me. He was like, he was like, I'm not doing it without her. And I was like, okay, well, then I guess I have to go too then.

Because, you know, and he was like, cool. So me and Hans and Ann-Marie lived on a bus together for three months in Europe. That was his first tour that he ever did. And it was like, it was such a fun time and such a great experience that we made a live video of that. It's on Netflix. Oh, cool. It's called like Hans-Zer.

or live in Prague or something like that. And it was amazing. Johnny Marr came out and like, you know, played all these shows with us. And like, I mean, what a dream, you know, like we're playing interstellar and we're playing, you know, like Inception, the time from Inception, like all these iconic songs, pieces of music. And it was so different and fun, you know, like, it was just like, what a joyous thing to be able to do with your friends. Sick.

You know, like. And outside, outside of being in a. band, you know, playing like, you know, a bunch of the venues that we played with Hans were like places that, you know, Inky Biss has played many times. Yeah. So it was kind of like, this is a different take on this thing that I've been doing for so long. Yeah, it's probably really refreshing and cool to even go back and visit some of those places. It was awesome. Yeah. It was, it was awesome. What a unique legendary shit, fun experience. And I have so much love for Hans and his family and like just what a great group of people, you know.

What guitar do you play? I've been playing these sort of custom telecasters. Oh, cool. You mean like live when I'm playing live? Yeah, I had problems with my wrist. Years ago, I had surgery for carpal tunnel syndrome. I just overuse. Yeah.

Like, just years of abusing my playing. You know, I had a very specific way that that happened, though. And it's kind of a funny story. I'll tell it quickly. Before I had a guitar tech or any help on the road, you know, we were just setting all our equipment up and breaking it down ourselves and all that touring in the van. And I didn't have a guitar tech. I only had one guitar. I didn't even have a backup guitar.

So if I broke a string on stage, I was kind of, you know, it's kind of pain the ass. So I started playing heavier and heavier gauge strings until I stopped breaking them. Right. And I got all the way up to like 13s or 14s, which is like kind of unreasonable, especially for somebody. playing rock music or at least you know like the kind of music we played right so once I did finally get a tech and like support and like I was so used to playing these like crazy heavy strings that if I ever like

picked up a normal guitar it felt like a toy to me like rubber bands right so I stayed with those really heavy strings for 10 years and it totally ruined my isn't that crazy how like such a small thing you don't I wouldn't even think of the gauge you got to play so hard you have to pressed down much harder. It feels really good though, like in a certain way to like be playing these like, you know, crunchy heavy chords with these big heavy strings. And I like that part of it too, but I just damaged myself over years of touring. So you have to get a custom telecaster. So I play these really light sort of semi-hollow guitars and, you know, light gauge strings. That's what

feels comfortable for me. I like the consistency of it. I don't really change guitars too much on stage. because I just like things to kind of stay the same. It's good for my, I only get so much use out of my playing, you know, so I got to, you know. I mean, I can still play, like, you know, at a high level, but, you know, everything gets harder, you get older, everything. My brother plays, bench plays telecasters, and he plays sers. Oh, cool.

What's your rig? You know, I just have, I've had the same rig for quite a while. I use these, you know, Mesa Boogie combo amps. Cool. And, you know, I've got a bunch of effects pedals that are the bane of my existence, but, you know. But you love them. But they were what I used to record all this music. Right.

So you have to replicate your music. I mean, I could totally just, like, put it all into some sort of multi-effects processor and hit one switch that does it all, but I've never felt good. Never felt good about doing that, you know? That's called integrity. Part of the performance is, like, all the crazy tap dancing I have to do while I'm playing. Yeah. kind of ties me to like otherwise i guess i wouldn't know what to do then i'd have to like perform

like normal people do well actually though i think as a fan when you watch you when you watch you play you want to see that it's a it's watching someone navigate sound i mean i guess you know back from where we come from like you and i as musicians you know like the time period that performance really like meant something you know i think to like the way that stuff was recorded and like that was really a big thing to me like was it recorded live like did you guys actually play it like that like now you know anyone can do anything so there's like no there's no up or down as far as that's concerned but that like really meant something to me and i think that the reason why i still do all that is because it still means something to me i think so i think it would

likely change something about how you're playing it i mean all of a sudden i'd have to start being like let me see your hands like no it doesn't it doesn't feel natural to me Wouldn't either for me. Unless I'm, unless I'm doing it in like a humorous way. Yeah. Like humor is like everything to me. Um,

but I wouldn't know how to like perform in that way. You know, it's like I play the music, but like being a performer as like someone with like stage presence, I don't even like know what that is. You know, like I mean, I do know what it is.

But I mean, it's just, I don't know. I don't that doesn't, that doesn't feel natural to me as a human. I like that. You know? But,

I mean, whatever we can call it whatever we want right yeah yeah it's cool i know incubus is so when this airs you guys will be kicking off another leg of a tour so we're starting in april um in australia new zealand and asia okay which will be the first time that we've been there for a while so i'm actually really excited about that yeah um you know the pandemic kind of shut everything down for a while and i think at the time i think we were planning to go and do a bunch of touring you know and in other parts of the world and then everything shut down and we've just been sort of slowly

kind of getting back online and going and visiting other parts of the world. But we spent a lot of time touring in Asia, touring in Australia, touring in South America. And so it really made me appreciate how amazing and experience it is to go and play these concerts all over the world like that.

So I'm very excited to go back to Australia, New Zealand. You know, like we have so many fans in like Malaysia, you know, Indonesia, like the Philippines. Like it's just amazing. Like it's so much fun to go. Yeah. So really looking forward to that. And between now and then, we're working on new music kind of for the first time in a while, which is also exciting and fun. I said this to Brandon.

It just feels like one of the bands that it stands the test of time. So your records hold up. I still listen to Incubis probably every day. That's awesome. It's like a few of your songs are on my, I have a playlist that's like growing playlist that I have. It's mostly like music over the decades that that that songs that stick with me. So I have this just running playlist and I play it every day. And when I work at my desk, I have my playlist going and it's on it's on random. It's randomized. No, that's great. So um, you guys are probably better live than you've ever been. I think I've all,

found that with like like good charlotte i think we're the best live we played live a month ago or two months ago when this is out three months ago so we played a few months ago i think we're the best we've ever been live i think something with age and time and yeah i mean experience experience like we're we're better live we add some things in we know how how to we know how to we know how to execute a live show um and we care i think we're better and more thoughtful and more focus and people are getting more out of our live show than we've ever been able to give them. And I think you're poised to make great records.

So when you decide to make a record, it's going to be a good record. Hope so. I never, you know, it's funny, like the writing process, because it's so non-formulaic for us, it really has to just come from, like, we can't really plan it out. like it just has to happen.

I feel that way. You know, it's like one of these things where, you know, I think people are like, well, why don't you just make it sound like this or make it sound like that? And it's like, we can't, even if we tried, we couldn't. But no one else could make an Incubis record. You know, we just re-recorded Morning View.

Yeah. Which was another thing, you know, that's what we've been up to. Which was, you know, if you'd ask me like two years ago, like, oh, go re-record your album or whatever, I probably would have just been like, why? Yeah. Like, why would we ever do that?

It's been so much fun. Well, I think it's genius, man. I actually got inspired by that. And I said to the band, I was like, we should re-record all of our favorite songs. You should. Imagine how they would sound now. Nothing will ever take away those original recordings.

Yeah. Nothing will ever take. It's not like you're going in and like changing the thing that was there before and the thing that was there before is gone. It's not that at all. like you're you're you're you're just sort of reimagining it however you want but also the songs like take on a life of their own and then isn't it possible that when we go to re-record it and we do what we do naturally which is just try that the song is also going to kind of lend itself to the new

version in a way that it's never because it's been living for decades it's just what it's whatever you wanted to be now you know and and and all i can say about going through that process was that it was super fun. Like, we just had a blast doing it. And it was kind of like, um, it was kind of like revisiting an old friend with a new outfit on or something. Yeah. Like, like, like, and you know, we worked with some new people that have been awesome. You know, we, we worked with, um, and we did a lot of it ourselves. We worked with Tom Sorowski, who's an engineer that, you know, worked with us with Brennan O'Brien for a lot of years. And then, um, we've been working with Adam Hawkins, who's a mixer, and he's just awesome.

Like, we've been having a great time. It's been a lot of fun. I got totally inspired by that. And I said, we should go and re-record our favorite songs and see what that feels like. Yeah. Because also, think about this, you're bringing back from the time you made that record to now, you're bringing back into the studio now, all the experience you've had out there on the road all the experience you've had working with other artists all the experience you've had working

with with with hans with mother science you're bringing all this different kind of like experience and information it's just going to be a whole different thing and that's that to me that's cool like as a fan and you're like i can't wait to do that yeah and it's interesting like you know everything just sounds a bit different and you know some things are you know like pretty accurate to like at least you know what we were playing on the original recordings and then there are some things that deviate a little bit and and all i can say is the process is really fun and you know we've been playing with nicole who's been playing bass with us for a while you know um you know ben had to step away for a while um you know for a health reason so you know Nicole ben actually

recommended nico i don't know if you know Nicole roe she's i mean i know her in relationship to incubus. I don't know her personally. She, you know, Ben actually said, you know, like, you should get in touch with Nicole. She's, like, an incredible player. And she is. Like, she's a monster. And, like, so that's been, like, really interesting and fun and different. You know, she's a lot younger than us. So she just has this energy. And I think it's infectious for everyone. And so that's been part of the recording process as well and been fun just you know the experience always changes and and it's good for it to continue changing and this will be our first time ever like re-recording an album and then like you know playing

sort of in response to that yeah and all I know is that like when we did that at the bowl it was just so much fun like we had a great time and like I think again like at one point if you had asked me like, you know, about doing that, I might have been like negative on it. I might have been like, oh, that's cheesy or like whatever. But it's like, what's cheesy about that? It's our fucking music. Like, we should play our music anytime we want, anywhere we want. But I think that you got there naturally. Had to arrive at it on my own. I think that cheesy is just another way of saying inauthentic. And I think when we do things too soon or because or for another reason. Yeah.

And I think the reason you guys are doing everything right now I can feel it is why everyone wants to see. Because when an artist shows up and they want to paint, they paint. And then you're like, I want to watch that guy paint. It looks like he's really fucking into it. Or anything where someone feels compelled for no other reason than they feel like they have to do it. Mother science is a great example of that is you're compelled to figure something out. We all start to watch. It's why people watch people play video games online.

Yeah. It's amazing, by the way, that, like, that's really such a big thing. Like, people really just want to watch. It's entertaining when someone loves what they do and they're trying to win, even if they lose. It's why we watch sports. They both, when we watch people where there's something, I think, actually at stake. So, again, I take this to anyone listening that is trying to do things.

Make sure that what you're trying to do is what you actually want to do. Because when you start down that road, and you actually start competing with yourself, more and more people start watching and they start participating in some way because it's authentic to who you really are. And I think that's the thing about Incubis. That's probably the word is like where you're at is authentic. It's not like watching a band trying to recreate something from the past or be something else to fit the pop cultural moment of the it's this great band being a great band doing what they think they should do when they want to do it there's something about that that's compelling because we see so many people

that feel a little bit directionless yeah there's no criticism to anyone i i just don't look at music that way so i i don't hate any artist um but i always notice people when they're doing something i'm like i want to see what's going on there um i think it's artists who are compelled to do something. Definitely. And it feels like that with incubus. It just feels like you guys are compelled. And you're also just really good at what we're. Well, we only do it when we're compelled. Yeah. Like if we're not, we don't. Yeah, I can feel that. That's just the way that we've always been. And it's badass when you see people live their lives that way. I think it's what inspires all of us to try to be a bit more like that. Because it's hard to as well to say no and wait for

your conviction. Or know when it's the right time or whatever. It's like no one tells you that. Right. Like there's nobody sitting there going, you know, like, okay, like at this time, we're going to do this or that. Like, they can say it, but it doesn't mean you feel it. Yeah. You have to be able to, there's like an inner compass you need to have.

It's awesome, man. Thanks for coming. Yeah, man. Thanks for having me. What's next from other science? We're going to launch another product. You know, at some point, I remember in next year, probably early-ish in the year or maybe mid-ish year.

and we're really excited about that. And can you say what kind of product or is it early? Not yet. Too early. It's going to happen. And this product is doing very well. And we're really, really excited.

Awesome. People are really connecting with it. What I was going to say, when we were talking about this earlier, is, you know, I never posted anything about, like, you know, skincare or anything like that. And I was nervous.

The very first time I posted something about Mother Science. I was worried, like, people are going to be like, oh, that's lame or like, I was just like, I don't know, It's just out of my comfort zone. All of us are like that. Totally out of my comfort zone. But then I was just like, oh my goodness.

Incubis fans love skincare. Overwhelming response to anyone I show this to because it's good. I'm telling you right now, it's not a sales pitch. When I give someone this thing, I go, no, trust me, this is, I'm not. You're going to be our brand ambassador, dude. You know what? Naturally, I will be because I love the product. But I think that it's a good.

lesson for people listening. Likely there's someone out there with something they made that people have said yes to a bunch of times. They've showed it to their friend. They gave it to their, they gave it to a stranger. And everyone's been like, this is great. But they're still afraid to go all the way with it. And this is a great example of like putting yourself out there with something you care about. If you're being real and you care about it. You're vulnerable if you do that. It's vulnerable. Yeah. I was, I had anxiety about it. I totally. I mean, but I still did it. You know, like it takes it takes courage to to put yourself out there in ways that like are out of your comfort zone and it definitely was like a bit out of my comfort zone to you know launch a brand like this and

promote it on my on my social media but I was actually like really excited because like the reaction that that I had to it was like it was off the charts 10 out of 10 every time every time I've showed this to people it's 10 out of 10 the packaging the product and then actually using it and how it feels But that reminds me of this show. I've been doing this for years. I've been having these conversations. And I've been trying to get to the bottom of happiness success. Like how can people, how can we demystify success?

How can people obtain success in their everyday life? Because we've gotten to experience that at different levels. We've gotten to have success in music. But you can carry that success. you can you can like call you could clarify things you did right and replicate them in other areas in your in your marriage in your fitness in your all the different areas you can replicate success if you take the time to try to understand what you did yeah and that to me is what i think at zero cost can we give people whatever information we have and some of it we might

articulate and some of it we might not but they'll they'll listen to our conversation and they'll pull something out of it that they can try to apply in the problem areas for themselves or the challenging areas for themselves and we can get them there faster at no cost the cost is time right yeah and so that's my goal always with these conversations is yes also as a fan i love talking to people that i respect um i've always have been just a fan um but i get it a lot out of it because then I'll take this conversation for the next week and things will strike me and it'll help me in other areas. But everyone can experience that. Everyone listening, so many incubus fans listened to the conversation I had with Brandon. So they're going to enjoy

this just because they're a fan of you. But there's likely some piece of information they get from you that they'll be able to apply in a place in their life where it'll help even a little. It's worth it. So for an hour of your time, if you get an idea that you can carry, for the rest of your life, and then you develop your own philosophy around that. Because that's the other thing is I don't think it's a one-size-fits-all in the sense of our application of an idea. It's how we tailor that idea to our life in a way that it becomes our own version of that philosophy.

Again, I love to see creatives and musicians go out and innovate things. I really do think that creative people have way more potential than they think in their medium. They think they're kind of boxed in by the art they do. You need to have the audacity. Yeah. To do other stuff. You just have to. Like that's the, I think that's the biggest hurdle for people to overcome is just getting out of the comfort zone and making yourself vulnerable by putting yourself in a position to be judged. But that's just, that comes with, you know, being an artist. All artists have to deal with that. Or they don't. Or they stay in their bedroom or their basement or whatever, you know. Yeah. Thanks, Mikey. Yeah, man.

right bro tell your brother i say what's up i will i hope you enjoyed today's episode of artist friendly if you really liked it you can follow like subscribe to the show anywhere you listen to podcasts spotify apple amazon we appreciate your support and we'll see you next time