Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Orville Peck

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

On this Surprise Drop of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Orville Peck. Though Peck wears a fringe mask whenever he performs, he continues to be one of the few openly queer artists in country. In the duo’s latest conversation, they go deep, resulting in a bold and candid episode about genre-bending, identity, and carving your own path in music. From his anonymous persona and punk beginnings to becoming a pivotal voice for queer representation in country, Peck opens up about what it really means to be authentic — and visible — in a changing industry. Fresh off his Appaloosa EP, Peck will host his 7th annual Rodeo from Nov. 14-16 at Pappy & Harriet’s in Pioneertown, where country, drag, and comedy will coalesce into an unmissable weekend. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠Spotify.⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

the missing element I had was just like the confidence to accept that in a weird way. And so things like drinking, things like numbing myself, like minimizing myself, apologizing for myself, sometimes like not wanting to rock the boat so not showing my full potential. You know, like all of those things have been ways of like holding me back from what really just wants to like burst out of me, which is like just this individual sort of perspective as an artist. And I think I've finally become comfortable and happy enough with myself that I'm like, proud of that now, you know, and like things are coming to fruition, I think, because of that. So I think you're totally right. I think big part of my addiction was dealing with this crisis I had almost

put myself in where I wasn't allowing myself just to flourish because I was like afraid to. Okay, so where do I start? I want to start with my thinking about around my outfit because I always put thought into it, even though it might not look like it. My thinking was also to try to impress you a little bit because you know I'm a big fan and me and Benj have been a long-time fans and you are one of the most stylish people in music oh thanks like effortlessly naturally stylish and I was like I can't just wear the same old black pants so I wore these dicky style no it's amazing there are chrome hearts oh cute yes we love So I was like, I got to pull out something that's a little bit more fashionable.

And then this is the ode to the Dickie style pants, even though they're Chrome Hearts. Yeah. Is the mastermind Dickie's collab. Oh my God. Which the mastermind's one of my favorite Japanese brands. And I was like, there was a story with the outfit for me. Well, I'm appreciating it. Okay.

Yeah. I was like, all right. Orval is getting a little style today. I love it. How you been? I've been great. I've been like super busy as I mean, I guess as usual, but like specifically just like crazy this year with sort of unexpected things. I know because I've been watching and following. But I was thinking about where to start because I was like, we could start with Drift Away. But I was like, maybe we should talk about Broadway. Yeah. To see like how was the experience. I know it's like so much work. Yeah, dude.

It was like the hardest thing I've ever done. But in the most rewarding way possible, you know? Yeah. I mean, so like I grew up doing theater. I used to be a dancer. Like, so I used to do that type of work and that schedule and everything. Yeah. But like, you know, haven't done it for like 15, 20 years or whatever.

And so that role like in Cabaret, the MC, like that was my like dream role always when I was younger, like since I was like 14. Right. So you knew it. Yeah, I have, I literally have a journal entry from when I'm like, because I've always kept journals. Like I have a journal entry for when I was 14 saying, I want to play the MC in Cabaret on Broadway. So it was like manifested for like, you know, over 20 years basically. Isn't that funny? Yeah, dude. And they just like, they approached me. I was on tour the year before last year, I guess last year, whenever it was. And they hit me up and they were like, you know, they're like, would Orville have any interest in in doing this?

placing the lead. And I was like, this is the craziest opportunity for a dream come true, basically. So yeah, I did us, they asked if I would just like film myself singing a couple of the songs. So we did like a self tape in the basement of Wrigley Field. I was like on tour. You did kind of have to audition. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, like they, they, I mean, they want to make sure you can do it obviously. And like, you know, I think obviously there, they go out to people where they like, I think they probably knew I could sing it. But it's such a specific type of like character work you know like I think you have to be able to really well and I really wanted to disappear and not be Orville at all you know I didn't want to just be like when they get

like a singer to go beyond a Broadway show and it's just like this is just them right it's a cameo yeah right like I just didn't want to do that I have so much like respect and also just excitement about doing that role so I wanted to like just completely transform and not be myself at all. So yeah, I sent in the audition video and didn't hear back for a long time and I was like super bummed because obviously like my natural instinct is to be like, oh my God, it was terrible, you know, whatever. But then they like, you know, they saw I was in New York on tour a few months later and I went in to like do it in person like workshop a little stuff with like the creative team. and again I left and I was like immediately told my boyfriend I was like oh my god I was so terrible

that was so bad I didn't get you know like the same old like framework of when I used to be an actor like what I would just do to myself and put myself through all the time and then got it yeah and yeah man like moved to New York for six months and did eight shows a week like it's obviously like the show is about the rise of Nazis in you know burly in pre-war and so it's like a very heavy show about fascism and I played I wanted to play the character really dark and aggressive because I thought you know we're sort of living in a time right now where I wanted people to come and see the show and hopefully leave thinking about something you know the hardest part that I didn't anticipate and not to sound like cheesy actor speak but like

it was like emotionally exhausting to do that every night like it's a very night like it's a very very heavy show, the subject matter is intense, sometimes doing it twice a day. You know, it was like you leave the theater and like you just have no capacity for doing anything else. So you sort of just like go home and you're like catatonic every night. Yeah. Would you say that that emotional energy that you have to give? Because you really have to buy in and commit and like you did, right? Like you're saying, like to do anything well, period in life, I think. Yeah. if you're the owner of a brand or if you're a rock star or if you're on stage, you have to dive all the way in and lose yourself to execute, in my opinion,

you have to live it, right? So would you say that the emotional energy that it cost you or that you spent every day was like completely different than the emotional energy when you're making a record or when you're touring and doing your own show, which is emotionally expensive, actually, I think, especially your records, Like when I listen to your records, I hear heartbreak. I hear a lot of things being worked out, which can give you energy sometimes. But would you say that that emotional expense on Broadway was totally different than anything you've experienced? And I think the reason it was different,

it's like funny you say because I think when I make my own records or when I'm performing live, you're like, yeah, there's definitely, you know, when you're an invested performer of any type, especially when you're investing your own stories and your personal life into your music, that's a different kind of exhausting. But like, you know, those emotions that I center my music around are usually about like heartbreak or vulnerability or whatever, you know. And an emotion that I don't feel very much in my daily life and I definitely don't necessarily tap into with my music is like anger and hatred.

Like, you know, and that's really the emotion of what. what I try to place this character in, you know, to sort of justify and and represent how somebody might attach themselves to something like fascism is that I think it comes from a lot of resentment, hatred, self-hatred. So these are things I don't explore in my music because I don't feel those things as Orville. And so to live in that world to sort of perform through like anger and hatred, that felt really different for me and it was very it was really hard because you're yeah crazy to like have to tap into a dark feeling yeah I mean it was you know I think in some ways it's probably like weirdly cathartic because I think we have all got a gamut of emotions within

us and I'm not the kind of person that taps into like anger or hatred ever even maybe when anger might be a helpful thing to tap into I just have a hard time doing that so I mean, in some ways, it probably, like, released some stuff in me that should have come out, you know. But yeah, man, it was, it was exhausting. And it was, it was very, very hard. And also, I mean, you know me. I'm the kind of person, like, I don't know how to not give, like, 110% in a performance. And so I was, like, really at times on the verge of exhaustion. And then there was like about a three week period when I was doing Broadway that I was also making my EP. Oh, wow. While you were doing it? Yeah. And I had also got Street Fighter, the film that I was that went on film. So I was, there was a three week. Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah, dude. So there was like, that's crazy. Yeah, I just got back from Australia. I like filmed a street fighter for two months. When does it come out? October 16th next year, I believe. Oh, wow. It was crazy. So there was a three week period when I was in

New York where I was waking up every day at like 5 a.m. going to the gym, then doing like two hours of martial arts training for Street Fighter. Holy shit. Then going to the studio to record the EP and then doing the show at night. So I was doing like 16, 17, an hour days for like three weeks. You were doing three or four different people's jobs. Literally, yeah.

Because if you think about like people who are just doing one thing, which is incredible when an actor has success and they get to just focus on doing the movie. And what comes with that? Well, you're training with the martial arts person. You're in the gym because you have to look good on screen. And you're probably eating right. So you're not just sitting around.

eating whatever you want and doing whatever you have to focus on like every box being checked so that you can perform at the because one thing that you're saying in this that it brings I was having this conversation the other day performing is an athletic event totally you are an athlete yeah and people don't look at it that way because it's like whatever you're on stage you're a rock star you're acting this way you're like actually an hour and a half to two hour set yeah and you're you're you have to have to have to have energy if you want to stay in this thing. If you don't want to burn out or be a failure at it because you're no good on stage. There's a choice to do it a different way, but I don't know how it's that's not sustainable. And to be elite and to put on a great show, you have to put thought into it.

You have to rehearse it. You have to do all the things at the highest level. If you want to be the best, you can be. Yeah, man. On tour, I'm like, everyone always jokes. They're like, do you guys, like, have a lot of like, do you go out a lot on tour or whatever? I'm like, I'm literally the first one in bed on the bus every night. Like I don't do, I never go out, like, partying or going to, like, hang with the band. I wish I could, but, like, I'm exhausted. And also, I have to, like, worry about my voice. Like, if I lose my voice, we're all fucked, like, you know, so. But I think we're in a more modern time where people talk about these things and, like, the old idea of, like, if you're a rock star, you're supposed to drink, do drugs, stay out late. You get a little

older and you're like, wait a minute. Who said that any of that was even fun? Truly. except, you know, maybe once in a while, I guess, if you have a big night and you're like, that was crazy. I want to go back to normal life. I don't want to relive that night too many times. But I think that like this idea that we're not supposed to work hard, be focused, try to be elite at things is like someone else is like dismissing that this art form and this thing that you do is not only is it important enough to take serious. Right? Because that's, the differentiator before you're successful at art, it's not serious. Yeah. And then you become successful and it's all serious. And everyone's like, whoa, look what he did there. And you're like,

I was doing this back when you didn't even know the fuck I was. And you didn't even pass me on the street and you didn't even look at me when I was busking. And now I'm, I'm elevated by some group of people, thank God. But also like all the critics come and all the serious people come and they start making it fine art, which it is. What you do is fine. In my mind, it's fine art. It's fine. It's fine art that's not trying to be fine art. It's just so good and authentic that it stands out so everyone looks back and goes, look what he did there. You know, and like, it's because it's good. Yeah.

But like what you do is serious. And so it takes dedication. So you're in New York doing Broadway, which you have no life when you do Broadway. You're committed to that show. And if you don't show up, the show, it's fucked. It's like, it's all these people. working their asses off to make this thing happen and all these people that are coming to see it. And it's not like a show where if we lose our voice, we're like canceled.

No, dude. It's like, well, I mean, you know, like I would sometimes have to call out from just exhaustion or whatever. And like, you know, there's amazing understudies. You have understudies on Broadway. Everyone's incredible. But yeah, man, like people obviously get upset because. But there's only one understudy. I had two. Okay. So you have two. Yeah. That's good. Well, because it's a really, it's a crazy role. And also, So the way that it like, you know, the understudies also are usually their own characters within the show with smaller roles. So there's like this knock on effect. And then you have like Broadway's insane. You have swings who are people that are just in the building and they can go on for like five or six different roles when this kind of knock on effect happens. So they know like. They thought around on every single thing that could go wrong in Broadway and they have solutions. Oh yeah. It's insane. That's amazing. It's like these people are machines literally. Like I feel like NASA needs to study.

the brains of swings because like these people at any moment can go on for like five different roles with like dialogue like tracks backstage everything and like they just retain that information it's actually insane and they're professional swings yeah and you're basically also like you're not guaranteed to go on ever like you're just they're waiting to do that role i mean you have to love it so much and you have to perform at broadway level you're not just like a sort of mediocre replacement it's crazy Could someone become a swing for like that's their career? Or are they always hoping to like graduate to their lead? Definitely.

I think like, you know, and a lot of them do will then also have like set roles in ensembles and other shows or be, you know, hopefully like they want to be a lead in something or whatever. But yeah, you, I mean, it takes a very certain like type of brain and dedication to be a swing. It's crazy. That's incredible, man. Congratulations. Thank you. Broadway's huge accomplishment. Yeah, man, it was like a dream come true. And so it's crazy that I did that this year, sort of unplanned in a lot of ways. And, you know, that's sort of like opened up this. Because, you know, I used to act a lot. But like, that's sort of, I've been waiting to kind of get back into it, but in the right way. So that sort of opened the door in a way that felt perfect and also like, you know, nourishing for what I want to do. And then so from that I kind of got Street Fighter as well, which is crazy because I just did like, you know,

know it's like a major Hollywood film with like it's a major it's crazy man huge yeah so i just went and did that yeah dude it's crazy i just went and did that for two months in australia which was it fun so fun the best but like i definitely hit a point while i was down there where i was just like man i have not been home in like nine months um like you know on the other side of the world at this point like i was very ready to come back and do music again you know yeah i bet but that's an amazing luxury that you have the ability to jump from mediums because a lot of people wish they could. A lot of actors want to be in bands. And it's cool.

Like, I'm always like everyone should do everything their heart desires. Yeah. Get after it. But you know in music to build a career, like a following, like to have fans, it's not a side gig. It is, it takes your whole life. Once you establish that, though, you can go and play in other arts. Well, that's like, exactly it. There's a lot of ways to get there.

Yeah, like, I think I had to really focus on music for long enough where I felt like. Like a decade or more. I mean, look, I got offers to do acting over the years, like a lot. You know what I mean? And I turned a lot of stuff down because I was, for that very reason. I was like, I feel like I just want to focus on music. It's going well in the way that I wanted to. So yeah, man, the stars all kind of a lot.

And also it's funny, like, I've been sober two years now and like... You've been sober two years? Yeah, just like a few days ago was my two year. Congrats. Thanks, man. How's that going? It's going great. It's still sober. But like, it changed my life, man.

And like, I think the stars aligned in a lot of ways this year. Because also like, there is no possible way in hell I could have done Broadway or this film, frankly, if I hadn't had that part of my life figured out as well. well, like, that would have been just disastrous. Yeah. So, like, everything came as these opportunities at, like, sort of the perfect time, like, stars aligned kind of, you know? So I'm a big believer in, like, that we write our own story, you know?

And the more we lean into being ourselves, the more everything gets clearer and clearer and clearer and clearer and laser-focused, the more we accept and lean into who we are. And then if we stop questioning or thinking that anything about us is wrong and we just follow our feeling and go, no, that still feels right or still just feel this way or whatever. What if you manifested the role on Broadway and your subconscious knew that it was coming and that the decision to get sober was more a time to lock in. Yeah. This is coming and you're ready.

and maybe some of us who need to get sober. I think that people who get addicted to things, because I believe in addiction, it just runs rampant through my family. So I'm not questioning that addiction is a condition, a disease, and that it's something that's serious. I'm not by any means.

But what if some of us are medicating we're so creative that it's painful? Dude, I feel this so, like you're so nail on the head for me personally with this with this thought because the culmination of like all of this stuff we're talking about it even ties into like you know i've known you and bench for a while now and like you guys were such early like i feel like you guys are like my fairy godfathers in like in this industry you know like just like yeah man and like i think it all just culminated in like finally learning i mean it sounds like so kind of like cliche but like i mean truly

finally learning to like believe in myself and believe that like I think what I've really come to learn kind of recently is that I am just someone who is always going to be on my own path and creating my own lane as an artist. Yeah. And like I don't like I used to sort of like struggle internally like for years in different ways. Like even when I got signed to like a major label and got in more in the industry and all that stuff like I was like subconsciously so concerned. with trying to prove that I fit into this world. Yeah. And I think what I finally realized is I've just been like beating my head against a wall where it's like I don't fit into this, to a lane in this industry.

And actually that is like the best thing because I just constantly carve my own lane. And I think that is just what I am happy to do now, you know? And I think for sure, like I had just like all of this potential in me and I kind of knew it my whole life in terms of like performing. artistry, creating, whatever. And I think the missing element I had was just like the confidence to accept that in a weird way. And so things like drinking, things like numbing myself, like minimizing myself, apologizing for myself, sometimes like not wanting to rock the boat so not showing my full potential. You know, like all of those things have been ways of like holding me back from what really just wants to like burst out of me, which is like just this individual sort of perspective as an

artist and I think I've finally become comfortable and happy enough with myself that I'm like proud of that now, you know? And like things are coming to fruition, I think because of that. So I think you're totally right. I think big part of my addiction was dealing with this crisis I had almost put myself in where I wasn't allowing myself just to flourish because I was like afraid to. Yeah. I just first of all think that is so great for people to hear because we all have we are all the same. We all have some room we feel small in. Yeah. The question is this. If I'm in a room that makes me feel small, it's either a problem with me or a problem with the room. Right? I either don't want to be in this room with these people or I need to let myself be big. I need to let myself be me. I need to let

myself be whatever the fuck size I am. And is it always so bad to be small in a room? Can I not move through that room quicker. Can I not find places to, to, you know, it's interesting. Like, if we zoom out and we go, okay, what if I'm exactly who I'm supposed to be and I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be? And I'm just, by the way, all you said, says the guy who is like, wearing a mask. Gay kid from Vancouver does country music, makes movies, does this. And you're sitting here telling me you are struggling with feeling like you fit in. Well, well, okay, so let me just break it down for you. Okay. You never fit in. And it was the best thing that ever happened to you. It's just learning to accept that. Yeah. That it's the self-love thing.

That's for me too, by the way. I'm saying this from a halfway kid. No, I know, man. Because I had the same experience in a different way. I don't think all of us were dealt a different hand. Like we were born differently. We were just born us. We didn't get to choose it. But it's good. And to learn that thing, to learn that it's good. I mean, that's like the gold. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. You're good. Yeah. And the most important thing, if anyone, and this is why I love having you on the show, because I believe in you as a person, because you're a good person. And to know you is the gift, not the songs, not the Broadway, not the movie. It's you. It's when you show up. It's when we see you out in the world when we cross past. It's a safe person. You're like, oh, Orval. You know,

it's like, it's a love. It's pure. That's the gift. All the things you do is just, it's your art. It's what makes you so freaking incredible because you have so much talent. The separation that I had to learn was, no, what makes me special is if you're my friend, and you know me, then you know that I'm like, as a person, I'm actually better than my art or my this or my that, what everyone else might know me for. It's actually just to know me because I'm a good friend and I'm a, my love language is like encouragement and like believing in people and like pushing people to be the best they can be. Yeah. Because they deserve it. And I think like the struggle we all have when we come from everything from low self-esteem to whether it was our

families or whether it was we all had something we had to work out the rubics cube of life that we all get handed everyone's getting a different rubics cube that's been turned a bunch of different ways differently than the other one so no move is going to be in the same order yeah there's no there's no like there's no blueprint so how to do it right but there's only so many moves to change a rubic cube to get it figured out it's right left up down right and when you think about like my set of things that I had to solve were unique to me, but not so different from the feeling you had, which is like, do I fit in here?

But once you started to embrace, like actually, it fucking doesn't matter if I fit in here because I fit in right here. And I think you start making your best fucking shit because you just keep enjoying it more. Well, I'm like back to like where I started in a weird way. We're like, when I first made my first album, I've talked about this always, but like it was so pure in a way because like I had no label,

no audience, no, I didn't, there's nothing. There's no expectation of like what to do. So I just did what I wanted to do and it came from such a pure place, you know? And I'm kind of like back there again. But now having learned like all this shit along the way. So it's like I'm sort of going back to this place where like, I mean, listen, like I think for years even like I'm such a lover of country and like a country like historian in my mind and like and I understand country music so well. And then I found myself in this place for a few years like where I was trying so hard to like validate my presence in country and like almost like contort myself to fit in. And like now I'm just like I don't give a fuck.

Like I actually don't. I'm not interested to be honest in trying to like prove anything to anybody. Like I just want to do what I'm going to do. and I'm like most proud of that at the end of the day. You know, it's very freeing. And like, look, I think, too, there's a thing of like, when you're like me or like you and Benj where like you didn't come up in like this industry or in this environment and you sort of get like plucked out from like your talent of what

you've been doing and someone recognizes it and then like you start to be in this world in this industry. Like at least for me, like I think I start. It was very easy for me to believe that my worth was what I could do and my talent. and like those things. Like that was my sense of worth. And so you're not really focusing, like you said, on you, who you are at your core and understanding that your work is only that way because of who you are and who you are at your core. But like you're missing this like crucial step where you start to believe that like what you do is your worth. And so when that's not

hitting or maybe you're not whatever like you crumble, right? Because you're not, you don't have that belief in yourself. And like it's just changed a lot for me. especially over the last year, I think. And yeah, man, it's like I feel like I just feel like I grew up a lot emotionally over the last year. Yeah, I can feel it. I also think naively we're raised to think that money and fame are all things. Now, I will say, money solves a lot of problems from this level to this level, right? Like basic living ability to have freedom. So I'll never take, I'll never say, money's nothing. Because I came from poverty, so it solved a bunch of problems to a certain point. Exactly. And then there's the point where all the problems are solved. That's about all you're

going to get out of money. If you don't have to worry about where you're living, where you're sleeping, what you're eating, getting around, traveling, moving around, driving a car, like anyone that's wondering, those are all the basic needs. When they get met, there's like maybe a small margin above that where it provides some happiness and joy of like, oh, cool, you go on vacation or you can buy that thing you're like that's about it doesn't solve any mental problems it doesn't solve any self-esteem problems it doesn't solve any relationship problems it doesn't solve a whole most of the things we actually get joy from yeah which is actually love companionship self relationship with self the transcendent part of life like that it is worthwhile to like live

and go forward and go up and try to accomplish things and believe that there's some higher purpose. Well, it shows just, I mean, we have examples in the world where like somebody who literally has nothing, there are examples of someone who has nothing that is exponentially happier than a billionaire. That's right. Like that is just. And healthier. Right. And like, of course, like money, like you said, like money is fucking helpful. And I get that and I see that. But yes, it is not everything. And, you know, this idea of like fame being the monitor of success. Like, you know, I'll tell you something I have also realized in the last year or two is that like I am just intrinsically not equipped for fame and it does not make me feel good.

I'm just like too fucking sensitive. It is impossible for me not to do. You care too much. Dude, I can't. I I've tried so hard to pretend that I don't care. It is really hard for me. And you care about people. I care about, yeah. Like I care about when I like don't read the comments, all this shit, people say like, yeah, man, I have to like force myself not to do that, not because it's an annoying thing or whatever, because it truly deeply hurts me. So I like have to just stay away from it, you know? I think that you have to just, it's so good to know yourself and to know if you're sensitive. Yeah. Because you're a sensitive person. And that's a good thing. Totally. I would never want to be any other way. Is good. And just because someone else isn't

sensitive. And they're like, essentially to me, comments are the equivalent of, you know, burps and farts. I hate to say it, but it's so gross and it doesn't smell good and it doesn't feel good. And it's obnoxious. It's not, I've said this before, but like, it's not natural for anybody on this planet to have thousands of unsolicited opinions about themselves, even when they're good. It's not normal. It's the equivalent of someone completely unaware of themselves, walking in a room, scratching themselves, burping, doing like, it's just obnoxious and unaware. and masked with some level of intellect,

it's even worse to me. Totally. And you know what? Ultimately, like I said, even when it's positive. You like it. You're going to be second-guessing yourself when you write a funny little comment next time, I'm not you? But ultimately, too, it is more than anything.

It is useless. It's unuseful to anything you're trying to do with your life. Because even when they're positive, it only serves to sidetrack you from your own path. It's just useless. It's just, yeah, it's not,

there's no helpful element to it because it's only going to make you suddenly think differently about like who you are or what you're doing, you know? I think it's, we're taught to be just not sensitive, which actually it makes us less sharp. Yeah.

Because when we're sensitive, think about it when you say you have a very acute sense A sense of smell, a sense of sight, a sense of whatever. That's sensitivity. Yeah. Right. So doesn't that make us sharper in some areas, but then we're taught to suppose to say, I don't care.

But like actually sensitivity to things, I think it's intelligence and I think it's sharpness. And so I think you acknowledging your own sensitivity, even if it's just someone making you feel like you let them down, someone's saying they don't like something. There's a bunch of ways someone could give a bad comment and it's not just, I hate you. It's like, you let me down or I saw you and you didn't say hi back to me. Right. And you're like, oh, you saw me at the place where there was 2,000 people saying hi to me. And I didn't say hi.

Whatever it is, though, you're still sensitive. And I think that like there's something about like slowing down and actually just like going, no, no, that's like how I am. Yeah. And accepting it is actually a strength. I will never choose to dull down or fortify my empathy. Like, I don't think that is helpful. to anything in the world. I think we kind of grew up a lot of ways similar. And like, I think when you

are sort of, how do I say this? Like when you, when you grow up almost in this sort of like empathetic caretaker role and things like that, like, you know, you become so hypervigilant about other people's feelings, other people's comfortability level, other people's, you know, you're sort of like, you naturally become this like encouraging, caretaking kind of person. I think you and Benjure very much like that, you know. And like, I don't want to have to suppress those parts of myself, which I think are really positive things, in order to navigate someone's shitty opinion. Like, you know, I would rather just ignore even even indulging it, you know what I mean? So it's smart. Yeah, it's a, so let's talk about the new shit. I mean, it's a, so yeah, I recorded it while I was in New York doing

Broadway and it's a, it's like seven songs, EP. It's called Appaloosa. You know, I always name my records horse things. And this one is like, you know, Appaloose is a spotted horse. My thinking behind it was kind of that, you know, in keeping with this idea of like really just like getting to this place where I not only acknowledge my individuality and my uniqueness, but like really just feel so proud and lucky to be unique, you know, instead of this idea that I need to like validate myself in rooms. I feel like I kind of looked at Apalusa as like this like, you know, it's like a unique looking horse and stands out and I thought that's kind of where I'm at right now. I'm feeling like I'm really embracing that. Like sonically, like sound world and vibe, I feel like I wanted to

take it back to like my early days, like I spoke about just just now where like I really wanted to not be too concerned about like, is this like a big enough production level? Is this like, I was just like trying to make cool, interesting sounding music again and, you know, in this way that felt very unbothered, I guess. Yeah, I thought it was really, I don't know, I thought it was really refreshing. I thought it was, it's just nice to hear in a world, because I like country music so much,

but it's bigger than ever. And a lot of times I feel like we're inundated with like the same 10 producers making country records. I'm not hating on those producers. They're working. You know, they're eating. And they've been working a long time to get to this level and point where they can make all the records.

but as someone who's always looking for something different and new and also as a fan to hear it. So from both perspectives, if you put it up against everything right now, it stands. If you put it up against your own catalog, it stands. So like for me, it was really nice to hear. I listen to Drift Away. Yeah. And I was like, fuck yeah, that's going on the playlist. Because it's just kind of what you do really well is you've found.

a place in your soul or your heart in your creative to create this time when like country and Western was different. I don't know. There's something about it that it strikes me. And to bring it to today and put something out that's modern. Yeah. It's really hard to do. And I think you did. I think you nailed it. And live. So live, you're so good live. And live to me is the most important thing. because that's how I see something come to life. And that's when I become a real fan, you know? And the record feels live to me. Yeah.

I mean, that's the thing. It's like I would never want to make music I couldn't emulate and do live. You know what I mean? Like, because to me, you know, but we come from like band worlds. Like you want to the energy and you want to play that shit. Like you want to perform it. You know, that's part of it. And part of it is like the crowd and the people connecting to it.

Like that's a massive part of it. So like I don't know really how to make music like, you know, sort of computer. I saw like so as I like an old person like whatever it's called like computer music. Yeah. I don't know what to call it. It actually is computer music. No, it is. I mean, sometimes.

It's calling it that because it sounds bad. But it is computer music. And no hating, but it's not my thing. It's just not like I can't like, you know, have like a synthesized drum track. I don't know how to do that. Like I just don't know. It's not the world I'm from, you know. So everything I need to be able to perform and have people experience in a live setting for sure.

I think you nailed it. Thanks, man. Especially now knowing that you did it while you were on Broadway because I didn't know that. That's crazy. Yeah, it's going to while. I threw some, like, there's some New York references in it for sure. I also do a cover from Cabaret on it. You know, I just, I wanted to kind of, I mean, I didn't even think I was going to be able to

on that timeframe put out like a song this year. I was really bummed about it actually because I was worried that people were going to sort of be let down that there was no music coming. But then I just like started writing. And I mean, yeah, we got like a seven song EP and I'm really proud of it, you know, and like shot a music video for it. Like did a lot of stuff that I feel great about and managed to do it in this like insane year, you know? So that's another thing is I've like remembered my old like DIY days of just like get you get it done somehow, you know, like. Yeah, you call back to the kid who would do anything to make it. And that's the thing. I think the joy I've had this year acting, making this EP, doing what I do and what I've done this year. Like, there's been such a joy attached to it because I feel so free of, yeah, that feeling of kind of like trying to contort myself into some lane that just doesn't exist. I mean, that's the thing. So I have to just like, so I'm just making it my, on my own, which I kind of have been doing, I guess. But now I'm like, I know I am now.

You have, but to be in your own head and be in your own mind and be in your own life is different than to be someone watching. And that goes for everything. So when you're having the experience of what does it mean to be Orville Peck, well, we've been watching you find out. Right. Right. And like, that's why you could go back and you, of course, with hindsight, you could look

at the last 10 years ago, I would have done that different and maybe I would have done that. I'd do the same thing. Me too. But that's the journey of like, what does it mean? to be Orville Peck. Well, we don't know. Only you know and you're only and you only know because you're finding out. Yeah. And then you'll be the one to decide because you'll feel right or you'll feel wrong. Now, the danger of someone who hasn't figured out that they are the master of their own destiny and they are them and them are they, right? Like there's only one, you and then you have to

decide. So you can ask, when you get too caught up and asking everyone what they think, then you'll get, you might get spun around and then you don't know what you think. It was funny when you were saying that, and I thought about like, not to get too therapeutic, but. But we always do. The inner child thing, right? Yeah, man. If we look back at ourself too harshly. Of course. We are doing a disservice to all the power that that kid had. And you're like re-bullying, re-traumatizing, re-doing all that shit to yourself. And we're discrediting the genius of that kid. A thousand percent.

The strength of that kid. The ingenuity of that kid. I mean, you're letting, you are literally letting yourself down by doing that, you know. And so the only thing that we, I think that I've learned too is like, healing has to happen, period, for everyone. Everyone's got something to heal. And if they're not, they're not facing, like from zero to 18, we're growing and we're getting like cuts in grapes and broken bones metaphorically, you know, emotionally. And then from 18 on, 19, 20, whatever, 21, whenever we come into our full adult brain,

our job is to heal, grow, and figure out what it means to be us. And I think that the kid from Vancouver who played in punk bands and didn't fit in, if you look back at that kid, he was figuring shit out and he got you here. And I think the integration of both, right, is like to stay young and creative and excited so that we aren't too cool or too jaded to get excited to go do Broadway or to do a movie or to make a record is what makes us good at it. Because you need to have like a childlike. Well, you got to like return that favor too of like you got to like take that like that kid is in all of us whether we like it or not. And you got to like take them along with you and like, you know, that's the thing is the healing. you talk about like, listen, there are events and people that can help heal things in you for

sure. I think those moments, at least in my experience, have been fewer than I think I thought. I kept thinking I would have something or someone external from me heal things in me or fix things in me or make me feel, okay, like that's helped me feel like I've arrived or invalidated. And like, you know, the honest truth, in my opinion, is like, 99.9% of that healing, even when it's from shit other people have done from you to you, that healing has to come from you. You got to do it. And it's the hardest thing to find out how to do that and figure that out. But like, yeah, man, we search for this like external, you can call it validation, seeking, lack, whatever. And like, I did stuff over the last 10 years that I thought was going to make me feel complete and, like, better about myself. And it didn't. you know and like i think when i finally figured out like to look within and like just appreciate that kid and me appreciate those things about myself that's when it really started you know and then i'll go even further because i'm i'm older than you so i'm calling you from uh 16 years in the future or whatever what i realized also after the journey of getting there which i think you are is having real

joy and appreciation for the journey that took you here because what if what you thought was a need for validation that you arrived to actually was just a personal growth journey of healing and growth and and in all that. But what if that's what you needed to get you here to exercise your greatness, to exercise your creativity to find out how much of a star you are, how much of an artist you really are, how much of a unique person you really are that you couldn't appreciate even at that age, but now you actually can appreciate your own power and you can use it the right way, right? Because pointed at the wrong things, our own power can be very destructive. We can destroy ourselves or other people. It plays out in drug addiction. It plays out in bad relationships.

It plays out in all these things that are very common amongst all of us, right, on the journey to figure out like, oh, no, if I direct my power and my own personal focus and my creativity at the right things. I can do really great things that I really enjoy. And then it's just, it cycles up. It like builds momentum. Yeah.

And then you find like even my relationship with Nicole, it continues to get momentum because we're both doing that in our own lives. And we give each other their freedom to do that. 100%. But like the happier I am, the happier she is, the happier she is I am together. And there's a cycle up that isn't so much like we're in this,

this 20 almost, 20-year relationship that we need each other. We do need each other. We depend on each other, but we just fucking like each other. But that's the best thing, man. If you're looking to another person to like fill your cup or make you whole, the foundation of that is very sketchy. Like you, you know, like, and that's the thing I found too in my relationship. Like, the more I feed into myself and like don't rely on this other person to complete me. Like that actually, it builds the best partnership in a relationship. You know what I mean? And like, yeah, It's funny. Like, you kind of have to do, you're going to have to like do the opposite of what

feels like the comforting thing sometimes. A little counterintuitive. Yeah. You know, like you've got to kind of like, I mean, it really just boils down to like you got to, you got to be able to like look in the mirror every day and like what you see and who you see. And I don't even mean like physically necessarily. I mean like, like you got to be really in love with yourself. Yeah. And happy with the person you are or like none of these things are ever going to feel complete to you. Yeah. You know, it's just not possible. You know what's funny?

I always thought it was funny. You wore a mask because you're a really ridiculously good looking guy. And I was like, well, I don't want to distract anybody. Just kidding. I'm totally joking. I was like, does anyone else? No. I'll just say.

That just popped in my head. What about shows? Playing any shows? Yeah, we got shows. I mean, listen, like, I will always tour. You'll always be on stage. Yeah, man, that's like what I love doing the most, more than anything. So, yes, definitely.

So the rodeo starts today. Yes. In fact, we are at the rodeo right now. It's incredible. Artist friendly from the rodeo. That's been going on for a while, for a long time now. Yes, the seventh year this year. Seven years.

It's like so wild. It's crazy to do any. and have the guts to start it, first of all, and then to have the strength and the dedication to, you know, things are very hard to build. They're very hard to get to stick, you know? And so to keep showing up and building this thing is really cool. Seven years is real, dude. Man, it's crazy. I'll go on like, you know, we'll be on like a Zoom call with the whole greater rodeo team of people. And I'll be like, I sometimes like laugh to myself because I'm like on a call with like 30 people who are all working behind the scenes on this or whatever. And I like pop in

the Zoom. And I'm like, fuck. Like I forget. I'm like this is like people like work doing this. This seems so wild to me. Yeah, man. It all started as an idea in your head. We were like, wouldn't that be cool if we did the rodeo? And like I can't believe we pulled it off. again this year. Like, like I said, just given my schedule and what I've been doing this year, like, and it's, it's crazier than ever. I mean, we've got like, you know, we have like crazy sponsors on board and like, it's like a full thing now just every year, you know? It's why. And like, just like tons of artists that are like just an immediate yes that want to come out and do it. And like, you know, people that are excited about it every single year and look forward to it.

Like it's, yeah, it's funny. I like, congratulations. Thank you. I like, don't even think about it. And now, like, as much as I probably should, but like, it is pretty wild. It's a, it's come a long way. And it's like, yeah, it's, I look forward to it every year. It just feels like, like, you know, it's just like a staple now. That's a huge accomplishment. Yeah, man, thanks. In and out of country, like, who would you say are like some of your favorite artists today? I mean, within country, I think what I really look for is like, you know, I think this is also a byproduct of being like a punk kid is like when you talk about your favorite bands you are also broadcasting like your identity in some way like you don't just connect to an artist like sort of lightly

because you take into account everything about that band or that artist and that somehow is like you know you wear like patches or whatever like that's the back patch on your vest you're broadcasting something about yourself by saying I like this musician right so for me there has to be more to it than even just like, I kind of like the song or whatever. Like I need, I'm investing my own self on the line here by enjoying you. Totally. You know, that's how I am with music, really. I love that. Um, I like Tyler Childers a lot. I've always loved his music. I think he writes, I mean, I love a, I like a good singer, first of all. And then I just like people that are like, tell vulnerable stories and that I can connect to. I love Tyler Childers. I love Sturgle

Simpson. Oh, I love Sturgle's. Sturgel's amazing because like, you know, I've never met him. Oh my God. He's the, he is the, you'll love him. He's like, you know, he's become a friend of mine over the years and like, he's just so unconcerned with anything that people expect of him. And it's just so fucking cool. Like, he just will make something so out of left field that people are like so baffled by. And the funny thing is he doesn't do it to be like an aggravator or whatever. He is just on his own frequency and wavelength and he doesn't. give a fuck. Like, it is so refreshing and lovely. And he's so talented, you know? Like, I listen to Sturgle a lot. Yeah. I love Chris Stapleton. I love Chris Stapleton. I think is one of the, I think that is probably in like modern country. I think that is probably the best and closest thing in my mind that we have to like a great country artist, like truly just the voice, the writing. I mean, Chris. He's awesome. Yeah, dude. It's like, it's just, it's so like in the canon of a legacy. Like, you don't even have to, like, worry about it. You know what I mean?

I really like Caitlin Butts, who's, like, a new artist. And she's like, you know, she's got, like, like, this playful, clever, witty turn on country music. And it's very classic and sort of like, almost like hoakami where there's, like, comedy to it. I think she's amazing. I like Flatland Calvary, who's like, you know, they're amazing. Like, their songs are so beautiful. I like them too. There's a great crop, man. There's like a, there's a really good crop of artists that are inspired by, you know, what I like to call sort of like real old country, which is also broad, by the way, like in my definition of that. But like there's like a big side of country music that is, in my opinion, just really surface kind of like shitty pop music. And it's just, it's fine.

And not that I don't listen to like surface shitty pop music once in a while and like go off. Yeah. But like I said, it's not something I'm willing to like put my identity attached to in terms of like, I love this music. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think that's the kind of artist and fan you are. I think you are deeply invested. So I think that by the way, I think that's really good to know about ourselves. Totally.

And I think that you look deeper. You need to be emotionally moved by something. But I also think that's where a lot of the source of your energy comes from. And I think that's important because, again, if we don't look at it, our difference as a strength. And that's all of us, everyone listening. Even if the person listening is into top 40 and they wouldn't know anyone you're talking about.

There's actually some strengths to them. A hundred percent. And so I think it's like knowing how we tick. What makes us feel energized, what makes us feel alive. What makes us feel loved? What makes us feel seen? What makes us feel excited? That is the key to.

to, in my opinion, like a healthy life full of like growth is joy. And to get to joy, we have to enjoy things. Right. So finding what we actually enjoy versus what we're supposed to enjoy or what we're supposed to like actually gets to us to that well-being quicker. Yeah, man. And that's that for me it's like, oh yeah, Orville, of course I thought this. You're emotionally moved by things which moves you towards sharing your own emotion.

Which what does that produce? Well, it produces art we all get to enjoy. Events like the rodeo, we all get to come, be together. So it's interesting when I hear you talk about what you like. When I zoom out and look at all the things you do, I'm like, oh yeah, well, that makes total sense. So I'm gonna, and like my music, my hair changed with me and has to be able to continue my rhythm. For so, Potion Nine, of Sebastian Professional,

has all what my hair needs. Nutrition Profunda, Protection Contraceous Against Contrata, 99% less of rotura and punas under control new potion 9 of Sebastian

professional the secret professional of who not are not even they're not the

people they're like you said like there's you know it doesn't need to be on this pretentious level

or anything like yeah yeah it's like you know I also know there's a part of me

that like you know drives around on the 101 like blasting Sabrina Carpenter like I'm also

like I'm not above that either you know yeah so it's all good, but I know that part about myself, you know? And there's a good album. It's great.

Full of bangers. Yeah. You know, so I listen to a lot of stuff these days. I actually now I think, because I went through this period where I only listened to like music still from like 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s. Like I never listened to a lot of contemporary stuff. And like more than ever, I listen to like current music now, a lot actually. That's great.

Yeah. Which is kind of, it's kind of like, I guess encouraging that there's people making good music. I feel like music is heading to a really good place. I think live has become paramount, which is challenged everyone. Yep. I think artists are challenged to be able to bring it to life. And if you can't, you have to rethink what you're doing. And I think that there's something authentic about that.

Yep. And I think there's like a focus on creativity, too. Like, look at someone like Chapel Rowan, you know, like people. I love Chapel Rowan. I don't know her. I've never met her. Oh, she's the fucking, you'd love her. You should try to get her on it.

She's amazing. She would be great here. She is the coolest. I love Chappel Roan. a lot and like, I was just proud of her. Well, you know, it's really funny. So Chapel came to my first rodeo in L.A. at the Trubidor. Oh, wow. So she was there and she talks about in interviews where, like, I had drag queens always on my rodeo. Yeah. And like seeing meatball and my drag queens I had at my rodeo at my first one, that inspired her to do drag queens at her show. And like, so like,

you know, me and Chapel. Yeah. So me and Chapel have this kind of like cool little like parallel with each other. And we've become, you know, friends, which is lovely. But like, What do you think it is with you and the drag scene? Because it really is synonymous a little bit. Yeah. In a very kind of organic way, I guess maybe you've always been around the drag scene. I just think it's an incredibly cool form of art. I think it encapsulates like it is sort of like intrinsically subversive, you know?

It's like. Great punk rock. It's super punk rock. I mean, it's like it's kind of like intrinsically like. activism in a way. It's like it's just cool and it's also the most I think I think I really appreciate like art where there's so much that goes into drag and it's it is one of the most difficult expensive time consuming art forms and usually there's no payoff no payoff like at least financially. Yeah. And I appreciate the fuck out of that. Like it takes such dedication. Yeah.

For the people that are good at drag, which is think about any high level elite player of any art form. Yeah. People that are good at drag have had to dedicate their lives, their time, the energy. And some people may make it look easy. But certainly, like, there's plenty of people who are not good at drag. Yep. And then there are people who are, like, so elite at drag.

Yeah, man. And then I didn't even realize how big the world was until Trixie came on the show. Yeah, I do. Which I think you hooked up somehow. Maybe, yeah. But anyways, Trixie came on the show. Yeah. That was huge.

Yeah. There was such a crowd. Oh, dude, it's like, you know, I mean, drag race and all that stuff. And people like Trixie, I mean, Trixie has built this unthinkable empire. I mean, Trixie is from a trailer park in Milwaukee. Which is my favorite part. Yeah, dude. And she is like a fucking mogul.

She's like the Rihanna of drag. Like, it's crazy. Like it's just like she's a star. Yeah man. It's insane. So hilarious and yet also fierce. Well, you know what's amazing dude is like that is another and that's probably why her and I are such good friends, why you connect with Trixie. Like because that is another person that is just doing what they love and carving their own lane constantly being themselves. And just being themselves. Yeah. And like look at what it forms. I mean, it's funny like the style of makeup Trixie does that didn't even exist really. People used to joke laugh at her when she first went on drag raise you know like she carved her own lane in every way

possible like do you think that there is a form of like you said the word activism and then i thought about it and i could also say representation 100% it's like saying something without saying it through the art saying it through the life saying it by living by existing for sure and do you think that there's some drive though behind Not that you chose it. It's not like, it's like we didn't, we didn't choose to be born. We were born. And then we live and we exist.

But I wonder like if part of that, and I don't want to say a chip on your shoulder, but there is a little. Yes. Do you feel like it drives you? A thousand percent. And I think what it is is like I, it's part of that sort of not fitting in thing. It's like, and it's that punk mentality in a way as well where it's like, I can tell you something about me that is sometimes my strength and my weakness is like,

I do not like being told what to do. I do not like being told how to do something. And if someone is telling me how to do something, I quite adamantly decide I'm going to do it differently. You know, which is like for better or worse. And in the sweetest way. Right.

I hope to be polite about it. But like, I don't know how to not be myself, I think. And when I'm being myself, it is sort of dedicated to being, different or I guess unique in whatever way. And it's something I feel like I've really realized is my power. And that's the thing too is like like it or not, you know, I'm open to both. But that's like, that's me. Here I am. And that's all I know how to do now. You know what I mean? I just think it's

awesome. I think that like I come back to this like thing and mostly for people listening, but also for us is what we thought was. the thing we were ashamed of. What we thought was the thing that we maybe wanted to hide when we were younger. What we thought the thing we were embarrassed of our younger self or we were we were we cringe. We shouldn't. It is actually our power. Who we are today. You're in your power today. You've accomplished things. You go on the street. You talk to anyone. You told them what you accomplished. You'd be like, wow. Yeah. Right? Because it's incredible. But you also aren't carrying it around with you and putting it on the table and making everyone look at it and like you're a very humble guy. And I think that's

we have to be. I've usually already forgotten about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's because you're an artist and you're a real true artist. But also I would say that you've had the unique experience that I haven't had and that many people can relate to, right? So there are certain groups of people that are identified and labeled that are then told they shouldn't exist by another group of people. That's a real thing. It's a real experience. And there's a lot of people that can relate to that with lots of different aspects of their life. And so you sit in a space where whether you like it or not, you are representing someone. You are activating a group of people that are, again, at some point in their life, if anyone

was told that they shouldn't be the way they are, they shouldn't exist, they had to come to terms with, well, I do exist. And I am the way that I am. At some point, they have to come to terms of that. And then they have to go forward and find out what it actually means to be them. and then they did most of the time discover how great it is to be them thousand percent and i think that you whether that was ever in question for you also the human experience we can all relate to is that we all feel insecure we all wonder if we have the stuff we all wonder if we fit into this

or and and then on the other side of realizing that we actually the most important thing is that we just find out what it means to be us that's the game changer and that's when you start living Yeah, man. And I think that you're in that like flow state now. Yeah. Even though last time I thought you were too, but like you're on the journey and I think that it's incredible to watch. Congratulations on the EP. Thank you, buddy. I would call it an EP album because it's not quite an EP, not quite a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah. Congrats on Broadway. Thank you. Congrats on Street Fighter. Thank you. Congrats on the rodeo. Thank you. And sounds like your relationship's going good. So congrats. It's all going good, man. Thank you. I love you so much. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for watching Artist Friendly. If you liked this episode, please make sure you hit the like button, you follow the channel, and please share it with your friends. We appreciate the support. That is why this show exists because you listen to it. Thank you guys and we'll see you next time.