Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Pat Monahan of Train

Episode Date: June 24, 2026

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Pat Monahan of Train. Beginning in July, Train will go on a huge tour to mark the 25th anniversary of Drops of Jupiter — the 2001 album with a title track that won them two Grammy nominations and reached certified diamond status last year. Before hitting the road, the pop-rock frontman stopped by the Artist Friendly studio to catch up with Madden, where they discussed coming up in an era when shelf space drove record sales, scoring the upcoming musical Begin Again, and the band's upcoming run. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Janice Leary, Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin Director/Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman ------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Good Charlotte. Good Charlotte is a band I started when I was 16 with my brother, and it is the reason I'm sitting here today. Thank you, Good Charlotte. We're going on tour. June 20th, San Diego County Fair, Delmar, California. And July 25th through August 30th, Good Charlotte and Avenged Sevenfold touring in the U.S. Starting July 25th, Thunder Ridge Nature Arena in Ridgedale, Missouri, an ending at BMO Stadium in Los Angeles, California on August 30th. If you are in the UK or Europe, we're coming to you this

November. November 8th, we are in Stockholm, Sweden. November 11th, we're in Munich, Germany. November 13th, we're in Brussels, Belgium. November 14th, Dusseldorf, Germany. In November 16th, we're in Amsterdam. November 17th, Paris, France. November 19th, London, UK. November 20th, Manchester, UK. Tickets are on sale now. We will see you at the show. You know, I think Train is a romantic comedy. And I want people to feel like they listened to a really cool movie. And I think this is maybe my best lyric writing as a whole.

And that's important to me. Those ways of saying things that are meaningful that have not been said that way before is very important to me and very difficult. I don't want to have bad. How are you doing? I'm doing pretty well, actually. I'm working way more than I want to. I thought the last couple years would be easier that, like, I would take 20, 25 off because it's good to go away sometimes.

Yeah, I agree. And then instead of taking 2025 off, we went to Australia, New Zealand, Europe, and did a summer run here in the States. So, like, maybe it'll take 26 off. And they're like, great. Well, let's start. with a tour. And so, in a new record. And so, uh, but did you make the record and then you, my record's really close to being done. So I'm in the middle. I'm not in the middle. This is six years through writing for a musical. Ah. And we finally got a theater in San Diego called the Old Globe.

Uh-huh. And so it's really close to being finished. I have maybe one song just to finagle. Are you allowed to say the name of the musical yet? Yeah, it's called Begin Again. Okay. So it starts on September 16th at the old globe. Okay. Having that behind me will be very, very good for me. That's a big undertaking. Well, I didn't realize how big it was. Yeah.

You know, you think, I'll write a musical. That's like years of someone's life. It was years and I quit three times. Oh, I would too. Because, you know, it's different than being in a band or being an artist where you're writing songs for characters that have to tell stories so they don't have to tell stories. so they don't have to write dialogue. Yeah.

And you know how we repeat choruses because people want to hear it again? Never in Broadway. Mm-mm. You have to change every lyric. You can't repeat a lyric. Because you need to tell more story. Dialogue.

And I learned on Broadway that that's incredible means rewrite that shit. Right. That's incredible. Rewrite it. Just change. All of it. Yeah.

It's a little bit more of a committee and that's hard from me. Yeah. So then I wrote 80 songs for a new record, and then I finally hit Flow. And then I just got the flow and wrote almost the whole record. Right. You're like, I wrote 80 songs to get to 15. That's right.

And then I banged out 15. So only one of the songs that I wrote out of those 80 will make this record. That's insane. It's insane. What are you going to do with the other 79? If you heard them, you would tell me you should leave them right where they are. I don't know about that. You sound like me, man.

I'll sell you some of the worst songs you could ever want. I'll buy them a dollar apiece. Sign off. I'll buy them a dollar a piece. Listen, from the guy who's written some big-ass songs. I'll buy them from you. Sight, unseen. They're not a dollar.

Okay. Just so we can be clear. Just so you can admit it's not that bad. When you've written songs that are out of the atmosphere, it's hard, I think, for you, not to say you wouldn't write a song and just like it in personally, but when you know what that song feels like when it's that big, you could say you have a list of songs you've written and you could say they're some of the biggest songs of the last couple decades. When you've had that kind of size and you know what that song feels like, it's going to be a high bar for you to try and. Yep, that's exactly right. And so you may dismiss some songs that other people,

it would be a single for some other people. I don't know. The problem is that I am very competitive with myself and the world of music. Right. Like, I play golf. And so that's a very competitive thing for me. Like I'm trying to beat me. Right. Yeah, yeah.

I'm not very good at wanting to beat you. Okay, yeah. I'm saying mistake. Unless I have a teammate and you have a teammate, then I can root from us. Right. But I always want to be rooting for a teammate. Right. And if we're playing against each other, I don't want to compete with you.

But if we're music in music world, I'm really competing against you and me, but mostly me. Yeah, I get that. It's different now because I can also root for you as I try to win. But early days, it was shelf space. You can also respect a good shot. Of course. Where you're like, damn. Man.

You love that. Amen. Like listening to Jay Cole and go like, wow, I wish I could do that guy. Yeah, yeah. But there's so many of those. But in the world that I started in, it was shelf space. And for the Gougoo Dolls to succeed, I needed to beat them to get. a space on the rack.

And it's not like that anymore. Right. Those guys are friends of mine. I root for them. And I never rooted against him, but it was literally a shelf space environment. And now it's not. Now we all can live.

It was a scarce opportunity back then because it was only so many in caps your record got to be on. Exactly. And you were physically going into those stores because it was the only way you could see your music out in the world, whereas now you could look on a playlist

or you could look on, you know, like you're saying, it's, I totally understand that experience. It's really fun for me to be swiping on TikTok that I'm terrible at and just see all these high school college kids, tell me, did you say? And it's like, yeah, tell me, shit, let's go. Yeah. And it's so cool that a new generation of people.

But I always tell my friends, like, they learned my music in a car seat. Yeah. And then they somehow decided that it was ingrained in their being. And so they continue. Yeah, it's so deep in people's psyche for exactly what you're saying, whether they were in a car seat or they were driving the car. It's in the fabric of life for a certain period of time that crosses a couple generations. And it becomes like, it's interesting, right, when you say TikTok. That song, it represents something more. It doesn't matter if they were the person driving the car or the person in the car seat or someone who's never heard it before and they're seeing people. But they know it calls to something. Like you can feel when people are sharing it, it calls to a feeling and a memory or a, it's interesting when a song becomes that. Memory is everything. Yeah. It's experiencing life and music being a part of it. Like being an actor seems like the hardest life in the world other than being a dance.

dancer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And being a musician, I'm so grateful that I get to be a part of people's lives because no one ever tells their story about prom or losing their virginity to watching Scarface. You know what I mean? They're like, I was listening to, this was on in the background. This song. When I was living in this beautiful moment. Yeah. That's the. This episode of artist friendly is brought to you by Better Help. If you listen to the show, you know we talk about therapy a lot. I go to therapy and not something I'm uncomfortable sharing. But for some people, they don't know where to start therapy. They don't have a lot of resources or options in finding different therapists.

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And I would suggest therapy for everyone. Father's Day is coming up, which is a great opportunity to talk about dads. And dads need therapy too. So if you're in the fatherhood journey, you need to talk to someone about it. You need to work out parenting styles. You need to work on maybe there's something you want to adjust or, change or work on you think you could do better. Therapy is a great place to work these things out. It's great to have someone to talk with about it. It's great to be able to work out some vulnerable

things in the privacy of therapy. So all the dads out there that are looking to continue to try and be the best dads they can be, therapy is a great place to work on that. And BetterHelp is a great solution. Find support in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com slash artist friendly. That's betterhelp.com slash artist friendly. Beauty and the gift. One time I sang,

I was probably 30, and I sang with Al Green. Oh, wow. And at the time, when I went into rehearsals, he had some, you know, they were older at the time.

There was an older gentleman who was his background singer. So this little white kid walks in the room and everybody's like, huh? And then I sang, and they were all like,

all right and this gentleman came up to me you might have been 75 at the time and he goes congratulations for respecting a gift and I was like never forget that moment that's cool it's cool when like an older person gives you a little a little nugget and you have to be at the right time to hear it because you you hear things when you're young and you and they come back to you later on in life and you're like I remember when my granddad used to say that and now it's played out and he was right the whole time, and I just kind of brush it off as, what is he talking about?

He's from... Because you're trying to make your own path. Yeah. You don't need advice when you're younger, but you kind of need it. Yeah. When you write this new record... I think it's called Mad Dog in the Fog,

which is a bar in San Francisco that we would go perform for free. Yeah. And it was a part of our coming up. Are you from San Francisco? I'm from Erie, Pennsylvania. Oh, wow. And then I moved to San Francisco to start train.

Oh, you're from Pennsylvania. I'm from Maryland. Oh, yeah. We're like cousins. Cousins. Everyone's cousin lives in Pennsylvania. Like a couple hours away. Yeah, you'd be, it's interesting how many artists are from Pennsylvania.

Yeah, I mean. Pink is from Pennsylvania. Pink. Taylor Swift. Oh, yeah. All right. Where's Taylor Swift? Holland Oates.

The list is long. Yeah, New Jersey and Pennsylvania sit next to each other. So some people are from like Cherry Hill. Like you're not from Pennsylvania, but you kind of are. Yeah. But there definitely is western Pennsylvania and like it's basically Western Pennsylvania and Philadelphia. And so I'm more of a Pittsburgh guy. So I grew up a Steelers fan.

Pittsburgh is one area and that's closer to Ohio. Yeah. I love Pittsburgh, man. It's a good place. Right. I'm more like from the Maryland to Pennsylvania, which is like what places. places in Pennsylvania, what I say like we used to go to. I mean, you could drive to Philly and it was like an hour and a half, two hours away. Yeah, Pennsylvania is, is good salt to the earth people. Yeah,

it's a good place. What age were you when you left? I moved to L.A. first when I was 19. Oh, wow. And then I moved back to Pennsylvania and had a child. So I was 23 when I had my first child. That's young. And then we went to San Francisco. And so I had to raise a, a little kid, a little boy, and I started a painting company because I learned how to paint houses in San Francisco and bought a house and I would paint all day. And then I would come home, shower, and drive back over the Golden Gate Bridge to sing for free. Yeah. Just until somebody would show up and say, that's pretty good. I'll give you 500 bucks. And then it just kept going. So you were like singing in bars and stuff?

Everywhere that would have us for free. That's why San Francisco was such a perfect place for us at the time, because it was like the heart of the beginning of like coffee house. Yeah. The coffee house scene was really important in San Francisco. And we would go to three or four open mics a night until people started to follow us at the open mics. And then we completed the band and there were five of us. And we'd start to do free shows and parties.

and then we would get booked at places like Slims and Mix Tavern and whatever else. And then one day we got to play the Fillmore, and that was a life changer. Yeah. Film were probably still my favorite venue in the world. It's one of mine, too. It's a classic. It's a great place to see a show, have a show. Yep.

It's a great on stage. The history, like just walking around, seeing the posters. Yeah. San Francisco did a lot of things right when it came to music. So you go back to Pennsylvania, you're 19 or 20. It was like 22. 22. Okay, so you were here in L.A. for three years or so.

Trying to make it. Trying to just grind. Remember, what were the magazines at the time? Music weekly or whatever. There was another one that was big and just like checking the box. Hey, dude, I'm looking for a, you know. Right, trying to make it. I'm your guy.

Yeah, yeah. And it was always singing. I was always singing. I started as a drummer, but girls seemed to like singers better, so I just figured that do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's kind of my same. My thought process around this was the same.

I mean, I got this great Lionel Richie story whenever you're ready. Okay. I want the Lionel Richie story. Not yet. You don't want it yet. But I want it. I'm really interested in a guy who is willing to move back to Pennsylvania, start raising this kid.

painting houses while singing in bars trying to make it not different from how I started. Tell me how you did it. Same thing. It was we left home probably. Where'd you go from Maryland? So we went to Annapolis. Okay. Which had a bar scene. And there was a band at the time that was on the radio was the 90s.

So there was a band at the time that was local that was on the radio. They had a national hit, Jimmy's Chicken Jack. I don't know if you remember them. And we heard they were performing and we were driving up there to open mic nights because the only place that had bars with open mic nights. How many of you just you and your brother? Just me and my brother. Who's to guitar.

We had the band at the time. But we were in high school and the other guys were a year behind us. And their parents were more involved. So they weren't allowed on school nights. My dad had left earlier in my life. and it was like us and our mom and she had her hands full. She couldn't barely get by. And you had nothing to do with that.

And well, I'll be honest with you. We didn't. Oh, really cool. We were very good. We didn't get in trouble. That's great. We worked jobs. We contributed to the bills.

What a great relief for your mom. It was. I got to say my mom would say the same thing. Like we were contributors. We would pay bills. And it was really hard. Like I was working from 14. I was telling my son this the other day.

I was like, at 14, I was working probably 40 hours a week at a pizza place and going to school and trying to start this band. And I was serious about the band. It was number one. I was like, there was never a moment where when I started, I knew it right away. I was like, this is it. And I was dedicated. We were dedicated to it first.

But we had to work. We had to pay the bills. And then we had to like every now, like get another piece of equipment one at a time. Was it so hard back then? because then where do you go? There was a guitar shop 45 minutes away. Unreliable transportation because we were buying

cars out of people's yards. You know what I mean? So it was like, it's the 90s. That was the vibe back then. Still is probably for some people. I'm not saying it isn't now. But like,

well, then we had to get a job and then we would cut people's grass, wash people's cars. We do anything we could to make money to buy stuff and we'd have to help pay the rent, pay the electric,

pay the whatever. So it was very hard time because we were always working and everything was like 50 bucks away. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I'm sure you could relate to that. When it was like you were just 50 bucks shy of that part for your car or the bill or the this.

So when we left, it was our, we had just finished high school basically. My dad would paint houses on the weekends when I was little. He always had two or three jobs. And I used to paint houses with him. And so when you said you painted. It hit me because that's, for whatever reason, painting houses is near and dear to my heart. Me too. There was great joy in it. And it was the only time I ever hung out with my dad. He worked my whole life and then he left.

And so the only memories I have of him was when I got to go work for him. And he was a pretty joyful worker. Like that was his element, I think. At home, he seemed very, I think him and my mom were not very good at communicating and conflict resolution. But most toolboxes were pretty empty. They were empty. Yeah, they were literally real toolboxes, not emotional ones. Manual labor and jobs like that can be very humbling when you're dealing with the different types of people.

And there's nothing better than when you're dealing with people who are like joyful and nice. And so when I was on the job with my dad, I saw all that. I'm dealing with this, dealing with that, dealing with this. And how he interacted with him, how he handled it. He was a humble guy. He had his problems, but he was a very, very. humble guy and a very nice guy and um it taught me how to deal with the different types of people that you encounter and when you deal with it enough times and see it when you're young you realize it's

not personal it's different types of people and then and it helps you what i think it provided for me for my real for my career was the ability to work hard long hours with joy with humility and gratitude that this is what I'm doing and I'm not breaking my back moving fucking shit and painting houses and those long ass 12, 14 hour days sometimes and then a diligence in it and the process painting is a very diligent process.

You have to be diligent. And I think that like when I hear you say that, I'm like, oh fuck, I know you. I already know you already. I already know what you'll do to achieve what you want. And most people won't do that. most people will not be uncomfortable for too long, therefore they won't get what they want.

We have to have a, and I say this for everyone listening because everybody wants something and we'll either tell ourselves we don't want it so we don't have to be uncomfortable in the process of getting it. Or we'll tell ourselves we want it bad enough to go through the process and work hard enough and be uncomfortable and be humbled in the process to get what we want. and then you bring it back to this music shit every time you have a hit a week later

everyone acts like you're never going to have another you're never going to write another good song yeah like that was it that's the mentality that was it now the clock's ticking that's not true we're a well of creative my I have a great manager

who he's a guy who loves coaches of great athletes and great teams And so he's become a great, great coach. That's great. Whenever I start working on something, he's like, remember, never count Monaghan out. It's like, just gives me a little bit of juice. Yeah. But when you're talking about humility, my father, he was a, he made suits and he was a haberdasher.

So he sold hats. Oh, that's cool. And I remember being maybe in 10th grade. And I had a day off of school and I came down and I just. My dad, yes, sir, I'm so sorry, sir, on the phone, just getting his ass handed it to him. And I was humiliated for him. Mm-hmm. And he hung up the phone, and I was like, I'm not asking.

And he said, a suit was messed up. And this guy was very upset about it. And so I called him right away and apologized and told him I was going to fix it. Because had I not, he would have had more and more and more time. to be more and more and more angry and make a big story and potentially never use me again. And so apologizing can make a great relationship. Absolutely. I was like, it didn't sound like a great relationship, but it ended up being one.

Because he had, that takes courage. Takes courage. Most people won't make the call. No, we run away. We run away from discomfort. Yeah. Like, I'm really uncomfortable now. I'm about to leave.

I'm kidding. Well, I feel like because it's my space, I can be like really, I can open up a little bit and share things because I like to. This is also, I mean, do you record in here? Like, this looks like you could do a lot of things in here. There's tie through lines right there in the wall. If you wanted to track drums in here, you could. You could set up a band and run it through and record live in here. These are recording studios.

So this room has like a multi-function. Yeah. We don't use it that way. It seems like an expensive building. It is now. Well, I guess by any standards, yes, it was an expensive building. But I'd say it's way more expensive now than when we bought it. Because we've owned it for like 10 years.

It's been a blessing. Yeah, it's cool. I love it. Always wanted to have a recording studio. And then when we started our company and we started doing all the stuff we're doing, we needed a place for everybody. And, you know, it didn't make sense to rent forever. So we found this buildings have been incredible.

It's got good energy, too. Yeah. Everybody's recorded here. You did good. Thanks, man. Glad you liked it. It's a special to us. It's like home.

And then when we started the show, we built this set and it's become like a fixture back here. We made a lot of memories in this room. But for me, the people listening need to hear the human being who went through what they had to go through to get to where they wanted to get. Because that's the inspirational side of life that we dismiss it sometimes. And everything's soul is like, this is how you do it. this and it's not it's like human beings have to struggle they get what we want we have to work hard we have to sacrifice we have to not every human but guys like us do yeah yeah maybe not every human you worry about that but i think everyone has their own challenges in their own way i think it's

more fun to have challenges and to have to fight to get something i was telling uh somebody earlier that i once was asking about this fella who uh seems to have a lot of money and i have I said, what's his story? And this guy goes, he earned it the old-fashioned way. He inherited it. Right. Yeah. It's so funny because I don't think that would be that fun for me.

It'd be a lot of fun for me to be the giver. Yeah. The guy who's passing it. I was going to tell you, like, one of the most humiliating things of my early days and working as hard as I did and having a young family was I couldn't buy people dinner. Right. And every time somebody bought me dinner, I kept very close tabs on how they did it. Right. Do you want me to feel this or do you want me to feel grateful and like just lucky that I got to be friends with you? And I learned some people want you to feel it. Like, I'll get it. Right. And I, right. I, huh. Yeah. I buy a lot of dinners.

Yeah. And I never want people to feel it. I want to sneak away and pay the check. Yeah. And just kind of, oh, guys, it's good. Yep, it's time to go. Yeah. I'm the same way, man. That's interesting.

Because I would say I had the same experience where I felt like someone bought me dinner and I felt a little shame. Yeah. And it was also shameful to feel like I'd say, oh, I don't really want to eat there. And they'd be like, nah, come on, man. Like, I'm like, I don't have the money, man. I'm sorry. I just got to be real with you.

I can't afford it. And then they're like, nah, I got it. And then the whole time I'm eating, I feel like I'm, I'm a pride guy. Yeah. And so it was a conflict for me. It's always been a conflict for me for anyone to pay for me because when you don't have a lot, it felt shameful for me. And my dad raised me that way when I was little.

I used to say things. And he was like, no, don't take any handouts, you know? And that's not what buying dinner for someone is. It's not a handout unless you make it feel like a handout, which is exactly why what you're saying, like that's what you're saying. There's an integrity. I wish I would have been more confident in my younger self because I would have asked a lot of questions. Right. People like in conversations that seemed like they weren't friendly. I wish I would have had the tools to stop the conversation and say, what is your intent? Right. Like what do you mean? What do you

want? Are you trying, do you want to hurt me or do you want an answer? Are you buying me? because you want me to be less than or are you just being generous? And man, generosity, the most beautiful thing in the world. It is. But wanting somebody to feel less than the ugliest. I think it's just a lack of integrity or not. Yeah. If you have integrity, you do what you mean.

You mean what you say. And you have intention. And so it's clear when you have it. The integrity, it's clear. There's nothing passive about integrity. And the passiveness of that weirdness of people when they're not clear is, okay, so I have a thing where whenever anyone confuses me, I have learned that it's something, it's some form of dishonesty when I'm confused.

Like confuse my behavior or words? Words. They're being passive aggressive. That can be confusing. Passive aggressive is hard for me. But it's dishonest. So it's just dishonest. It's, and whether they mean to be or not.

Yeah. Because like what you're saying is like, I'm the same. It took me many years to be able to do what your dad did, which is like nip it in the bud. Get right on it. Yeah. If there's a problem, let's, okay, let's talk about it. Yeah.

Instead of like running away, skirting around it, you know, saying yes but meaning no. The older you get, you also get much more confident about I'm okay if this is it. Right. I'm okay if this is our last interaction. I can live with it. I'm good with that. Yeah. But if you want more interaction, I'm going to need this from you.

Yeah, we need to. And you deserve something from me. Right. And it's like keeping your side of the street clean. Well, plus your circle has to be very important at this point. Yeah. How old are you? 47.

I'm 10 years older than you. Okay. That's a nice. 10 years more, fuck it. Yeah, yeah. Like, I went to a gala. 10 more years, fuck it. I like that.

It was a gala for my kids' school. They were having a fundraiser. This is last year. I have four. Oh, wow. You're blessed. 28. And then two little kids, letter 17 and 14 that my wife and I still live with.

But we went to a gala last year. And I went out in the drink area, you know, the lobby. The reception lobby area. Yeah. And I got a glass of wine. And a friend of mine was like, hey, Pat, meet these two. guys that you've never met. And man, these two guys talked for five minutes about their children and didn't ask me one thing about my children. And I went, nope. And I went back in the room.

Because it was like, I don't care, bro. There was nothing you said that it was interesting to me. Right. Curiosity, that's friendship. Yeah, yeah. If you're curious. Yeah. You want to know anything about me. We are instantly friends because I'm very curious about you. Yeah. And that's, I learned from the best. I have, there is a 77 year old man that I try to have dinner with every time I'm in New York because he's the most curious man alive. And he's the most interesting guy in the world. Very important in New York. He doesn't talk to me about that shit ever.

Right. He talks to me about me, what's going on with me and all the people that he admires. Right. That's beautiful. Yeah. The tough part of, for me, like, the school thing with kids, I have teenagers too, like you. I got an 18-year-old and a 16-year-old. And we've been doing the school thing since, obviously, we're trying to just be good parents, be engaged, show up.

And like, every now and then you get a punisher where you're like, oh, my God, you got me for a fucking hour. The Punisher. You're going to punish me, aren't you? The Punisher is a very music-related term. Yeah. Oh man, that guy here. He's a punisher. That's right.

Every parent can relate to that too, dude. Guarantee it. Actually, every human can relate to it. But like, there's nothing better than cool-ass parents who we're all there. It's not like we all chose to hang out together. We're all here, though. And we're participating. We're not like, I don't think I'm better than you.

I'm just here. And I'm not pretending. I'm here. Like, I really want to be here to support my kid. And I'm not here to network. I'm not here to like, I'm just here to support my kid. and your kid, by the way. I'm here to, like, be a part of the community.

And every now and then there's just a punisher, man. They're just like... How old are your kids? 18 and 16. And boy girl? My daughter is 18, graduating this year from high school. My son is 16 and he's in 10th grade. It's such a trip.

The difference between boys and girls as groups and what they do to one another in high school. It is. And the things that these girls... girls do. They're tough. Oh, baby. It's like mind games. With boys, it's more, it's more straightforward. Oh, yeah. And they just, I will punch you. Yeah. Or they like, I'm going to make sure that the next 40 years of your life are miserable. Yeah, I'm exactly. They're like, I'm going to be your best friend and destroy your life. Yes. And like, see, this is why we need a female president. Yeah. I is so much more advanced. It's a very intelligent thing the way these girls operate. It's high level.

It's high level. I couldn't even hang. Like, when I hear about something going on, my wife is like, just. You don't want this. Stay out. Go write a song. You're not going to help. I'm like, what do you want me to do?

You want me to go? Yeah, that's the way. I will punch them. Exactly. Your wife is right on with that. Yeah. Because women are very good at that. Like, they can, they're much better at talking to both sexes of children.

Like, I'm, I will punch them. and she's like, you're going to be fine. I would definitely not respond to that text that's pulling you into the vortex of awful. And I'd be like, give me the phone. You know, like, and that's the difference. Like, my wife knows how to run my family and my life. Like, I used to text people and she'd be like, no. No internet.

Give me the phone. Never again. Take it away. You can look at pictures. She's turning the Wi-Fi off in your house. Yeah. You can go to Instagram and just swipe. Don't heart.

I turned off your comments. You're like, yeah, you need that. You need that. My wife's the same, man. She steers me through the storms. How long have you guys been together? It'll be 20 years of marriage in July. Congrats.

Wait. No, next July. Sorry, 19 this year. That's great. How about you? 20 years together this year in December. Cool. 11 years, no, 16 years married.

Nice. 11. Sorry, hi. That's going to go over a grain at home. Leave that one in, Ryan. 11 years of marriage. She'll laugh. He's 16, honey.

It's been great. I don't know what I would do without her. Yeah, the people who say marriage is hard. It's supposed to be hard work. It's like, not to me, man. Yeah. It's supposed to be the easiest relationship in your life to me. The relationship isn't the hard part.

I'm the hard part. You know what I mean? I get it. Yeah. I got stuff. Yeah, I got stuff too. It took me 10 years to believe that it would last. Do you catch yourself knowing this about yourself that before you stir shit up in your house?

Yes. That you feel you're about to do and you go back it off. Now. Yeah. Like 45 I turned that corner where I was like, it's like I feel it'll come back. Yeah. You're going to have to beat that shit down again. Yeah, yeah. I listen to you. I'll listen to you. Yeah. You're a cool dude. I'll listen to you.

I'm all right. Honestly, dude, I didn't not know a lot about you. And I'm like in the first hour, almost an hour, I'm like, oh, fuck, I fuck with you. Yeah, I fuck with you. Big time. I learned that from Marshaun Lynch, who's a buddy of mine. Oh, Marshaun Lynch. The first time I ever heard that was like 15 years ago. He was like, yeah, fuck with that. And I was like, I don't know what that means. Someone tell me what Marchon means. It means I like it. Yeah, I like him.

Everybody I likes Spachshundon. He's the most authentic human I've ever met. He's very likable. But he's never not him. But that's what you feel. You feel like he'll say what he thinks. Always. And he does it with a smile.

But this man, you talk about generosity. Yeah. What he does for other people, big. He's got, you can feel he's got a big heart. Yeah. He's probably had to go through a lot. That's what I guess because people that I think have had. struggle, I think become very generous people. In success, they become very generous people.

And not before success, I would say, anytime you could be generous, you were probably. Of course. There's a good feeling with generous. Something feels great about paying for dinner or buying someone a gift or surprising someone or just. You know, I've reached an age that the real generosity is giving someone your time. That's the money gift. Yeah, I'm right about that. Somebody who wants your time.

Yeah. And then you give it to them, very important. The only thing you can't buy, make more of. Yeah. Once you give it, it's gone. I agree with that. I really feel like if you could live your life with that as the currency, you could actually make the right decisions.

Sure. Time is money. In love and life and everything else. Time is all of it. If someone held a clock up with a certain amount of years, months, days, hours, and you saw it. Like, you would think differently when you're making decisions. And I think people, sometimes we all get caught up in the money of it or the, if we do this,

they'll think this or the, there's a lot of different currencies you could use. There's fame, there's money, there's power, there's this, there's that. And the only one that actually matters is time. Yep. Ask your kids. Yeah. So what's the most important thing that happened to you last year? And they won't say, that's sweet ride, you bought me pops.

Yeah, yeah. And they'd be like, it's when we went and visited Grandma at whatever, and it's a moment for them. It's a forever memory. And that's where we come back to memory and music. Because while you're on your way to visit Grandma, which is an important moment for everybody, you probably have the car radio on and you're listening to some great stuff. That's right. And then it made that moment stick.

That's what music does. It's why they need it for the musical. They need it to stick. They need it to stick. And music makes the word stick. It makes the memory stick. It memorializes the moment. Yeah, it's a great way to put it, yeah.

And you can keep it. You don't have to hold it. You don't have to put it on a shelf. You don't need pocket space for it. You can keep it. And you feel it's pretty cool. The coolest. Talk about, too.

It's not a cooler thing. Everybody I know wishes that they had music. Yeah. Don't matter how many millions or billions they have, they wish music was in them, like, it's in us. The way it is in, yeah, and us. We're lucky. But sometimes having music in us is very difficult and destructive.

It can make your head feel crazy. It's just like, man, get out. It can also... Just give me five minutes. Yeah. Also, like, I listen to music every day. Obviously, I love music. I'm a fan of music.

But it can ruin sometimes if you're too deep in your music thing. you can't just enjoy a song. You're like, yeah, because you're like competing at every moment. You're like, God damn,

that song's so good. I hate them. Yeah. I love those moments, though. Yeah. When you hear great instead of like,

that, that's sex. Damn, I wish I would have wrote that. Yeah, man, I wish I would have wrote that. Yeah.

Wish I would have written that. The way he said that. The way he said that. You know what I mean? Yeah. With the new record, is there anything you feel like, yeah,

this is my, my best shit right here. Yeah, there was a few of them. Cool. And that's the only reason I want to put an album out. Like, who puts an album out? Why?

And it's because train fans are my age, some much younger, some older. But we grew up buying albums, which had stories to them and different. You know, I think train is a romantic comedy. And I want people to feel like they listened to a really cool movie. And I think this is maybe my best lyric writing as a whole. and that's important to me. Those ways of saying things that are meaningful that have not been said that way before

is very important to me and very difficult. I think my favorite lyric writer of all time is a guy named Johnny Mercer who wrote Moon River, Autumn Leaves, and a thousand beautiful songs from early days. And that's just important. And when I can hit it, I keep going. The flow.

Yeah. I just went and saw my, 14-year-old son is obsessed with heavy metal and we just went and saw a black label society the other day. Oh, cool. And, oh, he's, he's got cool, cool taste. Oh, yeah, he's obsessed. He's metalhead. So we got to hang with Zach a little bit.

Oh, cool. And J.D., the bass player. And what lovely people they are. Yeah. And so my son tours with me because he's such a great singer and becoming a terrific guitar player that we were on. tour in Europe last summer. And he was like, Dad, can we go see Ozzy? And I was like, hell no, dude, I'm going to be tired. I'm touring. Of course, I bought tickets right away. Yeah. So I took him to see Ozzy's last show. Oh, man. And the whole thing was that was a life memory for both of us. We got to

have that. And like, that's forever. There's no currency that could ever compare to that. And then when Ozzy died 16 days later, I was working. And my son sat with my wife outside for two straight days listening to Ozzy and like weeping. Because he's got such an emotional connection with people and music that seeing Ozzy, it felt like he knew him. Yeah. And then all of a sudden he was gone. And he was like devastated. It's interesting how deeply, It makes me think like, okay, yeah, you just, you have an artist on your hands because when someone, when someone feels so deeply connected to someone and to music, that's a different kind of appreciation. That's an artist's appreciation.

This is a real story. Yeah. So my wife is from Seattle, so we live there. Okay. You live in Seattle? Yeah. Now? And it snowed like a mother father the other day.

And the snow is dumping. and my wife says to my son, look at the snow, go outside and play. So he goes outside with his amp and guitar and starts playing guitar in the snow. She was like, it's not really what I meant, but he was like, I'll go outside and play. Yeah, that's cool.

That's funny. It was really funny. You got an artist on your hands. I'm telling you right now. My son's 16. He's a cool guy. He loves Allison Chains. No, so does my son.

Love's Allison Chains. And let me tell you, the new singer of Allison Chains is dope. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it. They played at the Aussie concert. Oh, wow. In Birmingham. And he is terrific. And Lane is hard to like ever want anybody else up there. For me, one of the greatest singers, rock singers of all time. Me too. It's still hard to reconcile him passing away at such a young age for me. And it makes, makes me, it's the thing I hate the most about our business is the mortality rate of these special artists when. Yeah, but it's so, you know, it's more visible. There are other businesses that many people do disappear.

But acting in music, you see so much of it that you're aware when they go. And you become attached to them. So it's really painful when as a fan you wanted more because you love their art so much. And we could have used a lot more. Yeah. Every time I think of Allison Chains, I just think I was living in L.A. at the time when I first heard him. And I was just like, whoever wrote, buried in my shit, I was like, that's my new guy. That's the line.

He was incredible. Man in the box. What a fucking, what a great. Oh, my favorite song of theirs is, I'm trying to think, I mean, rooster is one, but the acoustic one. It's on the tip of my tongue. Nutshell. Nutshell, yeah. Fucking so good.

They're all great. It's pretty cool, though, that I see the young guys now coming back around to, like, the 90s, the early 2000s. Yeah. And it was a really good time for music and art. I think so. Yeah. You did all right. It's an interesting time right now.

Like, you know, there are. Feels like it's alive again. Well, metal and rock is the. huge resurgence right now. Maybe bigger than ever, to be honest. Bigger than ever. And TikTok is so interesting because if you're a child or a very young adult trying to make your way in music, you need a great 30 seconds.

Like we needed a great three minutes. Yeah, you need 30. You got 30 seconds now. You got 30 seconds, which is terrible, but also maybe easier? I don't really know. Like this is such a weird world. It is a weird world. It seems very difficult.

Then the grind, like to be on TikTok and you need, you know, I got two phones. You need more than two phones just to keep up. Yeah, you do. What was that guy's name? Who's the guy? Kevin Gates. Kevin Gates. Yeah, that's my guy.

I love that guy. I want to have him on the show. But what is he saying? He needs two more. Yeah, he needs two more phones. Hip hop is the greatest genre of music. around. Because they're funny, they're interesting, so smart. The modern rapper is a poet. And what people used to long, many years ago, people would listen to poets. When it's done really well,

it's like really good poetry. It's very clever. It's deep. It's at the same time, it's light. And there's something about it that I've always taken a page from or a note from. in my own writing because I want to as well. Right, I want to be clever. Like, there's something so sharp about a good poet. So years ago, I was on the golf course. I just turned on like hip hop radio or whatever. And I hear this is when I fall in love with Jay Cole.

Have you ever heard a song that goes, I guess the neighbors think I'm selling dope, selling dope? Oh, yeah, yeah, Jay Cole. So it goes on like this for a minute and a half. I guess the neighbors think I'm selling dope, sailing dope, sailing dope. Sailing dope. And then the punchline. And motherfucker I am.

Jay Cole! That's my new guy. I love Jay Cole. And motherfucker I am. He's one of the greatest. He's, I mean, he's my greatest.

Yeah, you love Jay Cole. Who's your top? Kendrick is incredible. I think Drake is just like so good, man. Yeah, I mean, to shame him and Kendrick had to beef.

Well, and then Jay started to like, but in and he was like, I'm out on this. I was just trying to be helpful. I feel like, okay, let's talk about Drake and Kendrick. This would be really great. I'm not sure I know enough about either one of them. I know enough to know that two of the biggest and the best,

and they're bound to clash. That's kind of the sport. Yeah. Right? That's hip-hop. Biggie and two-puck. I've always appreciated the sport of the battle. And I will say this.

I like that the Kendrick and Drake thing, it stayed in the art. You know, whenever it becomes a violent thing in real life, that's where, like, I check out. I can appreciate a rap battle because it's, like, kind of part of the sport of it and that the competitive nature of it is cool. Well, I thought that was really cool. I don't think anyone could outwrap Kendrick Lamar. I don't think so. I don't think so.

I mean, as soon as he starts, everybody else is like, I'm good. It would be very hard to out hook, Drake, because he's the hook man, you know. And the pop man, he does these big pop songs, and there's a level of elite talent to that, that I appreciate big time. Like, I don't know which I would choose because I like big songs. And big butts. Yeah. And, uh, and, uh, and, uh, this is when you look at your public assistant, they're going.

that one out there. That was like a slow, that was not even a fastball. That was like a slow ball right down the middle. Because you, I like big and then I was just right there. But, uh, don't we all? Come on, Pat. Admit it. I like petite. I'm patica. I like them just perfect. I like them just. I like all different. I like them just the way they are. Yeah, that's right. I like. I like. I like. like Billy Joel likes it. I just was at, I just performed at a Billy Joel tribute. Oh, wow. In New York.

Anyway, I won't interrupt you anymore. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. But I appreciate it. So your first kid, your son, how old is he now? 33. 33. Do you feel like he was on the ride with you the whole time?

The process of like building a career and what I know it's, takes and I think about what would it be the hardest thing to do is raise a kid and build a career at the time. It's interesting because like my kids were a little bit. I was touring until they were about six or seven and then I couldn't do it. It was really hard. They were out sometimes, but it was like it was too difficult to like be together all the time. And then I stopped because I, it was too painful for me. I just couldn't. And we've kind of come back to it now. We're touring more. And like, we haven't in a long time, like 10 years or so. I always think like you guys were there with me. You had to sacrifice too. Like you had like when I was starting this company and starting that

and touring and doing all the things. They don't know anything else. They're just like, no, dad, it's cool. Like, but I always feel like I was gone a lot in the early, um, state, in the early first decade of their life. And like, I always wonder like, yeah, I don't know. I feel like, your first kid probably was on that ride with you. Well, you know, he, I was away a lot, a lot. Yeah, yeah, I can imagine. And then when I was no longer with his mother, he toured with us a little bit as like a photographer. Oh, wow.

And he's a musician. And he was a part of different phases, like the very unsuccessful to the, I'm getting there, to the, this song got big and I'm traveling the world. where like I feel like he was you were painting houses. Like he was there like the early years of his life. He was like watching his dad do whatever he had to do. Like that shit gets in. It sinks in.

It's a very end and I will I will say this as kindly as possible. Your partner in this is an incredibly important part. of being a support. Right. So that your children see that you're out there working your ass off. Right. If your partner is home saying your dad's never home, this is bullshit. There's no context.

Then your child goes, my dad was never home. That's the story. Right. Not my dad was never home and he might be the hardest working person I'll ever meet. And my mom like said such great things. Like the story was this big. It's the message they get. You like fatherhood?

Yeah. So it's like the best lesson you can learn in life. Yeah. Men that don't have children, I feel sad for them just because there's so much that you learn about yourself. You do. And you don't get a chance to do that without kids, but that's not a judgment. No. It's just a feeling of like until you try to.

guide a being through life and then you listen to yourself and you're like I did all these things successfully but I'm still a knucklehead do I want to tell my kid anything about anything or to let them you know so basically my parenting is just trying to be there yeah me too I think my dad would say hey why don't you uh keep that precious advice and cut me a fucking check yeah yeah And I'm like, he was so funny and he said it so quickly in the right way. I was like, yeah, that makes sense to me. How about you save your advice and cut me a check? That's pretty fucking smart.

Let me use that one. It's kind of true, though. Yeah. If you ever thought you were a man, whatever a man is, fatherhood will make a man out of you. Because there's a depth of feeling that you. Well, I think what fatherhood can do is it will categorize you. Right. It doesn't necessarily make you a man.

Yeah, because you could run away from it. Everybody's going to find out if you are now. Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's a good way of putting it. I would have come up with that in about 10 years. Yeah, see? I'm 10 years to fuck you right. Yeah, that's right.

Or fuck it, sorry. Yeah, how often do you get asked to play school, gala, and benefits? Well, once a year. Yes. We'll do some donations. When you're a musician and your kids go to school, they're going to ask you to play every year. My daughter just ran for class president and barely lost.

And she told the class, my dad's going to come and sing some songs. We're going to have free donuts once a month. Like the whole pitch was perfect and great. So now I don't have to do that because she's not the class president, which is sad because it's sad because she would have been an incredible class president. And you would have done it. You had to show up. Oh, shit.

Yeah. I would have gone every Friday. I would have been out in the. Yeah. It's me again. Yeah. Hey, guys. You ready? What's the only about to hear today?

Which one? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Before we wrap it up, I wanted to, if there's anything else you want to talk about around the record and the tour, let's do that. But I want to hear the Lionel story. Well, the record is potentially going to be called Mad Dog in the Fog. There's a song called Mad Dog.

I'll tell you this quick story about it. So I was super excited writing the song, and I have the same driver in New York as Billy Joel. And I've had dinners with Billy before. I don't talk much at those dinners because I'm the least interesting guy here. I want to listen to everybody else. And so I was in the middle of writing the song, and Billy's documentary inspired me so much that the song sounds like a Billy Joel song. So I go to my driver, Abu, is there a way you can get this song to Billy? He goes, I got to go through all the right channels.

So he sends it to Billy's assistant. So like three weeks later, Billy sends me an email back from his assistant that says, I'm no longer, because I was like, would you like to help me finish this? He said, I'm no longer in the business of writing songs. I actually like my life now. And so then supposedly he writes me a second email. And my driver said, we wouldn't let him send it. And so I go to Billy's tribute. and Billy is like, hey, call Pat up here.

I want to apologize for my second email. And they go, we never sent it, Billy. And he goes, well, then call Pat up here so I can tell him what it said. So Billy's super funny and wonderful. So I go up and he goes, hey, I just wanted to tell you, you got to quit writing songs, man. It's going to fucking ruin your life. That was this, a guy who wrote 300 number one songs.

And a Pennsylvania guy, so there's. Well, Billy's, he's in Long Island. Oh, Long Island. Yeah. What is from Pennsylvania? But anyway, Matt Dong in the Fog would be probably the name of the album. And it's a much more guitar rock, you know, classic rock, rolling stonesy type of vibe than we've had. My friend Butch Walker is playing guitar in my band right now.

Oh, that's cool. Until he gets bored. But But Butch is a close friend and a wonderful musician. And he's changed the vibe of what we're doing. Yeah. And I'm really in love with what we're doing. And then we'll tour with Bear Naked Ladies and Matt Nathanson in July and August. And that tour is doing really well.

And I hope that people will hear the album in June so we can play a few songs in July and August. And then my Lionel Richie's story is this. So I met Lionel for the first time. There's two parts. I was having dinner with Martina McBride. And I think it was in Vegas. and we were in the back of the restaurant and all of a sudden here comes Lionel with his assistant

I'm not sure if it's still as assistant Kirk or something Kirk carries his phone and Lionel you know it's just like yeah just give Kirk your number and all that shit so they came up and they see me and Martina and he comes up to me and he starts telling me how much he loves drive by and then he did a couple interviews and he said I love this new song by train yeah so I'm like I love Lana Richie like he's a boss. So I'm like, thank you so much. And we hung out for a little bit. Parted ways.

I would text Dirk or whatever and be like, hey, I'll be in L.A. if Lano was it, he's like, no, Lino does not want to do that. Like, so. Lino does not want to do that. So years, years go by, and I have a song called Play That Song, which is the melody of heart and soul. Yeah. And it's a private show and like a very expensive part of Los Angeles. Right. Lionel Richie's there, along with Slice Stallone and all that shit. Right. It's the first time we ever perform play that song.

So we play that song and it's like, play that song. So Lionel's hearing this melody and he just comes up to me after and he goes, you motherfucker. He was like, I should have thought of that shit years ago. Still competitive. Yeah, that's right. He's like, I should have done that. All he hears is. songs. When he hears a song, he's checking the writing out. That's how the man thinks. He's just

one of the all-time great. He is. We just had him on the show. Oh, cool. It was cool. We were like, well, we've never had a public conversation together. We have a lot of, it's a strange thing to, like, get that close to a Billy Joel, a Lionel Richie. Yeah, they're, like, I think at this point in my life, I'm just so happy I get to be on the planet at the same time as so many of these people. Yeah, man. And like an infant is still very close to our age. Yeah. When you think of time and the expansion of it and how long we get to live, like a baby

and us on the same planet at the same time. That's right. Because that baby's going to be 57 real fast. Yeah. And that shit is over. Yeah. And so I don't know what that means, but just figured I'd throw that out. I go back to the beginning of our conversation, and I imagine a guy who's painting houses,

singing in bars, and wants to make it. And I look around in a time where everything's fast and you can order everything. And you can literally order fame. You can order songs. You can go on a website and get AI to make a track and then make a melody for you. And you can fast track your success if you're smart enough and clever enough. And, you know, not saying that doesn't take some time. talent to figure that out. But there's something about a guy who's got a young child, he's

painting houses and going and singing in bars that hits me and I feel it. And I go like, oh, now I'm going to hear every song different. Cool. Because there's a blood, sweat, and tears in that, that it took that you could have quit and you should have quit. That's what everything's telling you at the time, you should quit. Yeah. Right. It's too fucking hard, man. Quit.

People saying it to you. What are you doing with this thing? It's cute. How's your little band? How those songs? How's it going? And there's something about that that sticks on you. And even when you have a hit and another hit and another hit, you outdone yourself,

outdone yourself. Outdone yourself. And everywhere you fucking go, you have stepped into a very, to very thin air. where no one dares to sacrifice what it takes to get to there. And to this day you're still like, you still have that in you where you're like, hey, Billy Joel, will you check

this song out? That takes fucking like guts, man, to like put yourself out there and like do that again and again. But that's the stuff that that's why you have achieved what you have. I bet you I even fucking have

some stats. I guarantee it. You're You got 20 million monthly Spotify listeners, over 10 million albums, 30 million tracks, six billion global streams, diamond status, top 250 greatest songs. I haven't had a new diamond plaque in like almost two weeks. Give me a diamond plaque, baby. Give me one. I don't have one. Give me one.

It's been like two weeks. But I'm just saying, I like you. You're like very straightforward, straight shooter, straight. Like you've lived life. I just, I think it's very important to not be full of shit. Yeah, yes. And if you're full of shit, everybody's pretty hip to it. Like in the music business, we have a saying that everybody knows everything.

Yeah. We just do. It's too small. Yeah. I saw this really cool thing on Instagram yesterday. It was a guy who he was talking about family and friends that you grow up with. Yeah. And he said, I'm going to translate something for you.

Don't forget where you came from. You've changed. You're different. What they're saying is don't grow. Right. Because we didn't. Right. And we need you to stay who you were.

And I was like, damn, that's a pretty big translation. Don't grow. Yeah. And I'm like, I can't stop, man. Because Sia, who's managed by Jonathan Daniel, my manager, they went to the Grammys one year and she did not win. right but Jonathan leans over and she goes man I'm really sorry and she goes did you think that was going to fill the hole yeah like that's what we all live with yeah there's no fill in this hole

nah man no maybe golf will try I'll keep swinging and hopefully that fills a little bit of it yeah it has to like Steph Curry's going to do the same thing he's going to go from basketball the greatest shooter of all time to a golf course because it's the only thing he can do to just ease his mind because of being an all-time elite athlete, he's just going to become, I mean, he's already a very good golfer, but he's going to become a very, very good golfer. Because he doesn't have a choice. That's right. But it says a lot about the guy like you, you're a good golfer. Well, that takes what? It takes work, dedication and a hunger to succeed, which you can't quench that thirst. That's why golf kind of scratches that itch because it does satisfy that.

It's the most frustrating, difficult game in the whole land. So is music. You know, no, it's different. Golf is a beautiful, insane high school girlfriend where you're like, what the fuck am I doing here? I know nothing. Look at her. She's incredible.

Look. Like, that's what golf is. Why am I here? Yeah. I'm not good enough to do this. I'm not good enough to be mad because then you hit that one shot and you're like, I'm amazing. I can stay a couple more minutes.

I can do one more. One more. Well, thanks for coming. I'm really, really happy I got to meet you. Friends for life, man. You're a big baller, man. You're a big baller. Let's get out there and golf.

Tell me. Tell me when, dude. Thank you for listening to this episode of artist friendly. You can also watch the episodes on Spotify. Spotify premium users get no commercial breaks on my show. Make sure to follow, like, and comment because I always read the comments.