Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Patrick Miranda of Movements

Episode Date: December 6, 2023

This week on Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Patrick Miranda of Movements. Movements are wrapping up a busy year. Following their appearance at this year’s When We Were Young, Movements embarked on an overseas headlining tour with Softcult and Webbed Wing in support of their third studio album, RUCKUS! Through its 10 tracks, the album sees the Southern California post-hardcore crew expanding their sound and taking unexpected turns into pop. Plus, you can grab tickets for their 2024 North American run here. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up everybody? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist friendly. On this episode, I'll be talking to my friend Patrick Miranda from the band Movements. We'll be talking about their latest album, Ruckus, and a whole bunch of other things like Will Yip and anxiety. Let's go. I don't want to bed times. I don't want to have bad. Patrick. What's up? Movements. Yes, sir. How you doing? I'm good, man. How are you? Good, man. Thank you so much for having me. Dude, I'm stoked you're here. Yeah, yeah, I'm super excited to be here. You know, I'm a fan of your band.

I'm trying to think of when we first met. Dude, it was 2016 or 2017. Yeah. We did that tour in Canada. You guys, Silverstein, Pali Royale and us. Yeah. That was like our first ever, like, big tour. That was the first time that we were like, oh, shit.

Like a big band wants to take us on tour. That's insane. That was a great tour. It was awesome. It was terrifying for multiple reasons, one of which being that it was like still very much kind of like wintertime in Canada and us being kind of like young guns still touring in like a van and trailer. There was some scary nights. But it was like awesome and totally worth it. What year did you guys get together? 2015. Well technically technically 2014. We put out our first song though like January 1st of 2015. And that was just like a demo that we were like. bucket like let's see what happens you know let's like try this thing out and if it works and then it works and then yeah i think by probably like summer to fall of 2015 we like played our first show and it like popped off and we're like damn okay like this might might be a thing we're pretty

good at this we're okay yeah well bands will never say we're pretty good at this but i always try to get them to say it because i feel like i can say it now you know well you guys are i you guys are In my opinion, you know, what I would say of newer bands, even though it's been long enough now that you say you're not a new band, but at my age, when you look at bands and you go, okay, they're in the newer school. Totally. I'd say you guys are one of the bands that I find to be the authentic version of something, you know. Yeah. Feels like you're making art and it's not a, it's not a gimmick. It's not a gimmick.

it's not a plan. You got to have a plan once you make the art. Totally. But you got to make the art first. Absolutely. Yeah. And sometimes people make the plan first. And then they go, okay, now fill in the slots with art.

Yeah. Okay, let's figure. And it's like working the, in my opinion anyways, this is just my thought. People listening can disagree with me for sure. And I'm open to always open to that. But I feel sometimes people work in the wrong order. Totally. And I think you got to go, oh, cool, I want to be in a band.

Start, okay, great. I think I could do that. Great. My friends or my, you find the people that you agree with. Great. Start making art. Great. Oh, now I kind of like these songs.

Yeah. Now let's figure out how do we bring these out to the world and how do we, that feels to me like the organic. Right. And I think that's like very much what our approach was, right? you know like when we started this band none of us thought that it was going to be a job a job or or turn into what it's turned into a lifestyle a career like a whole a whole fucking thing you know we always had a good feeling about it you know we were always like hey this is going to be our

attempt at actually doing a band for real and and you know trying to actually make it work but i think our headspace was like our idea of success at the beginning was more so based around like, okay, can we sell out our hometown venue? Like, can we sell out chain reaction at some point? If we can do that as a headlining band and sell out 450 tickets at chain reaction, we'll have made it enough for our book, right? Like, that was our idea of like, yeah, that's a successful, you know, route. And now here we are fucking eight, nine years later being like,

yo we just sold out the palladium in Los Angeles we just did two nights in a row at House of Blues in Anaheim and it's like no problem movements no problem next level right so none of us ever thought that we would get to this point and we all would have been happy had we only made it to the point where we were doing you know would you go rooms I think like honestly I think I would have been like are you managing your own expectations maybe a little get to disappointed? I don't think I would have been disappointed because at the end of the day, I just wanted to play music. Right. You know, I just wanted to, I wanted to create something that was real and honest and I totally get that. I totally. But at the same time, like, yeah, I think that now that I'm here,

and I see how successful it can be and the fact that I can turn it into some sort of like a career for myself, I think now I'm like, okay, shit, how much further can we push this? You know, we've already made it so much farther than we expected to make it. Let's keep going. like what's next where where do we go from here we only want to see like that upwards trajectory right also you have to at least realize whether you've talked about it or not but i feel like you have because you're very you're you're like you share i'm an open book like me i share i love to share that's why i have this show yeah because i like to share right and and i don't feel like i got to share enough of the stuff i wanted to share over the years sure that's the whole reason we started having to

this because I just want to share, won't talk to people and have the conversations we've had. Yeah. The couple conversations we've had, I want people to be able to listen in on those conversations. So they take something away and they get some game before they get into the game. Totally. And whether it's an artist or someone starting a business or someone just trying to better their life, they listen to the songs and they get something from it. But then also, like, we learn a lot in trying to make it.

Absolutely. And like we make mistakes if we could go back, we wouldn't make them again. And if we could help people avoid the potholes. Right. Right. Like that's our job as human beings. Absolutely. I think.

So my question is, so one, you have to have realized along the way how many people your music has helped, which also drives you. Yeah. Absolutely. It's like, okay, now I kind of feel like I have this relationship with these people and they've shared with me and now I feel like I need to like I felt like we gained a responsibility

in our band's career with so many people and I'm like it had to be tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of personal stories I got to hear firsthand or in a letter or however they shared where you start to feel responsible

for the people who have put you there and what they get from your music and it does kind of drive you as well to want to continue to like put stuff out and be successful absolutely to keep doing that because it feels good in that way yeah 100% I think that the connection with the fan base and the kids who you know like you said who come up to us after each show and pour their hearts out you know and let us know like uh you know their their whole life stories or whatever it is that their traumas are their struggles and whatnot and how much our music has impacted them and helped them, right? Ultimately, I guess that wasn't necessarily the goal going

into it for us. Like, obviously, we wanted to connect with people, but at the end of the day, we were just writing honestly about what we were going through, right? And the fact that it did connect with people and did turn into sort of like, yeah, you're right, our responsibility to be there and show up for the people who do connect with the music. I mean, that was super important. But it was also challenging, you know, like finding, what's that? It's a heavy weight. Yeah, yeah. I mean, finding myself in that position where I'm suddenly being thrust into this world of like almost being like a mental health advocate and resource for people, you know, like that was, that was really, yeah, heavy and in some cases overwhelming, you know, at times when I was struggling to

handle my own issues. What was your biggest struggle around your mental health? So I, have had struggles with anxiety and depression since I was like a child. I had my first anxiety attacks when I was like literally like five or six years old. You know. Did you know what it was at the time? No, no, not at all. And my parents didn't really know either. It's confusing. I had my first, I struggled with anxiety for a very long time. And I still, what I always say is I learned how I established a relationship with it. Yeah. So now I have a relationship with it, which immediately shrunk it to a place where most of the time I can manage it 95% of the time. Yeah.

So it's a great place to be when you've had it. I started having when I was 11. Yeah. And out of nowhere and I had no idea what it was, super confusing. You just think you're going to die. Yeah. And it's real at the time. Yeah.

And then I would have those like panic attacks. The first year I had it, I had them every night for a year. Fuck. Now, I look back after working. working it out in therapy and I know what happened that year there was a lot of trauma that right yeah so now of course I understand but I didn't at the time right and my parents certainly didn't have like an education they were dealing with their own shit right so I have my brother who we shared a room and I would have a panic attack every night and he would sit there with me

yeah until it was over and sometimes it was a half hour sometimes it was 15 minutes sometimes it was an hour yeah and then after that year Almost every night for a year. Maybe there were nights where I didn't. Sure. But it felt like a whole year of panic attacks. I would have them kind of like weekly. Damn, yeah.

And then it was just like something I lived with. And I didn't understand what they were until I was in my 20s. Yeah. Until you have the resources to like help you and like help you realize like, oh, that's what's how long. Someone tells you this is what you're experiencing. Exactly. And these are the, you know, this is lots of people. Also, you feel kind of shameful about it.

Yeah. Because you're living with this like. thing this episode that happens and it's like you have this episodes these episodes yeah and so you start also planning around it yeah so you can't go to spend the night of a friend's house right because you can't do this that's the thing that people don't discuss enough yeah is when things get in the way of us living like a happy life right avoidant behaviors because you are afraid of the the what ifs of like oh well what if i you know what if i freak out when i'm doing this thing you know when i've got something going on and then, you know, other people are looking at me in a weird way or whatever,

you know. Do you go to therapy? I do, yeah. Yeah. I've been in therapy for a long time, but I didn't go to therapy until well after I should have, you know. Me too. I didn't even know really. Yeah, I mean, my whole childhood, I kind of just dealt with it where I would have, you know, really gnarly anxiety or I'd have like periods of like, you know, childhood depression where I just, I didn't know why I felt the way that I felt. But I was just like, I knew I felt off and I was just like every morning when I would wake up for school like I'd be crying because I just didn't want to go and you know I didn't know why I felt the way I felt all that shit. And then it wasn't until probably like late in high school that I actually really

started like trying to actively do something about my mental health because as I got older, my mental health also like you know my issues kind of manifested themselves differently to the point where I was actually diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder. I have a little bit of that. Yeah. And that was like really new to me. And obviously, I mean, OCD is just like a form of anxiety. But.

Yeah, it is. It acts out. Yeah. But being treated for anxiety and being treated for obsessive-compulsive are like very, very different approaches, right? And it wasn't until I started treating myself for like the OCD side of things that I really started to notice like a big difference. Up until then, you know, my outlet, my way to kind of deal with everything was just putting it into music.

And like that was like, this is what I'm feeling. I don't know how else to talk about it. Here it is. You know what? I feel like while you're saying that, I'm thinking and I'm like realizing why I like your music. Because I relate. I thought I related to it, but then we've never talked about this before. Right.

And I feel like I relate to it so deeply. And now I know why I like it. Yeah. because you were pouring all that stuff into your music. Yeah. And I related to it, you know, on an energetic, on a spiritual level, right? Sure. Yeah.

For your OCD, let's say it's a good day on a scale of one to ten, where's your OCD at? Maybe like a three or four. It's like always there. You know what I mean? Three or four isn't a terrible. Yeah. It's not horrible. You know, I think on a good day where I'm feeling like a day like today, right?

I mean, I'm not feeling anxious today. I'm not feeling the way that I, you know, have felt in the past. But it's always there. It's always in the back of my head. I always have like a base level of like, okay, like I'm aware of this. I'm choosing not to draw attention to it. And I'm choosing to continue living and not allowed to affect me. Right.

It's not until that anxiety starts to creep up or something happens where I, you know, I experience some sort of trigger and then I go spiraling, you know. How's your anxiety act out in when it was bad? It was. attacks like breathing panic attacks, panic attacks shaking constant like you know pit in my stomach like just genuine like freak out moment where I'm it felt like the world is collapsing you know like the walls are caving in. Yeah no I know I was there like a physical thing though that like for me I always felt like my throat was closing and I was allergic like I was having an allergic reaction

and I was sure that I was having an allergic reaction sure yeah and that I was going to stop breathing Never been allergic to anything in my life. Yeah. But I'm the one guy who will win my anxiety. When I'm anxious and I'm in a very stressful time, I'll have those little moments where I'll eat something. And even my wife, it's a funny joke because she's known me for so long and we're on the inside together.

But if I'm in a very stressful time and we're eating somewhere, I'm like, oh, do you think there's something in this that I'm allergic to? And she's like, hon, I think you're just stressed out right now. and your folks, you think you're just having a little anxiety. She's like, you're fine. And then I'll be like, oh, let me just go out for a walk. And then I'll just go out, walk around the restaurant, come back in. And she's like, you good now?

And I'm like, yeah, I'm good. I need a second. Yeah, sometimes you just need a second. But when you do that and you feel embarrassed, first of all. So I'll get my phone out. I'll act like I'm on a call until I get outside. And then I'll like, breathe, take a minute, go back in. Like, that shit still happens to me, maybe like every couple months.

Yeah. Every three months I have one of those. Yeah. And I can't explain it. I feel you. Yeah, I think that, yeah, the, the, that immediate, like, need to separate. Yeah. Is, like, such a thing, you know, and I feel it all the time, you know, if I'm already

kind of having, like, maybe a little bit of a rough, rougher day, right? And every day is different, you know. I'm, I'm medicated now, so it helps kind of even out all of. my, you know, for the most part. What medication? So I'm on Prozac. Okay, cool. Prozac's been really helpful for me.

My friend texts that. He says the same thing. Yeah, I've tried a bunch of other stuff. Hasn't necessarily done me a whole lot of good. Yeah. I haven't felt like really, really like overwhelmingly positive. Yeah. Until I started Prozac.

And that's been like a game changer for me. That's cool. Do you smoke weed or anything? No, I'm straight edge. I've been straight edge for 11 years. Oh, cool. Yeah. So I'm like, that's like another thing too is like I'm kind of just fucking raw dogging life and having to deal with no medication.

Like no lubrication. Yeah, there's just there's no. There's no, you know, I think a lot of people and and obviously this is not like a healthy habit, right? But like a lot of people will help kind of reduce their anxiety by turning to alcohol or whatever turning the weed. Is the opposite on me. It'll make can't smoke weed. I've tried a few times. Yeah, trust me.

When I was like a kid when I was when I wasn't straight edge, I had tried smoking weed a couple of times. in high school and it made my anxiety a hundred times worse a hundred times worse it was horrible it's terrible yeah but i i i mean i totally resonate you know going back to what you were saying about like starting to be in a situation in which you feel um overstimulated or overwhelmed and everything around you there's just too much right there's like too much noise or the the people and like i do this thing and it's like this weird kind of like paranoia that manifests itself uh sometimes like where I think like oh everybody is like looking at me or everybody's talking about me or whatever right things that are like so bizarre and absolutely untrue because everybody else is just

living their lives right but I'll have this weird thought that comes into my head and it's just an intrusive thought and then I loop on it right where I'm just like oh everybody's watching me or like oh like there's like there's cameras that are like recording me right now or like any like weird shit like that you know I feel that and then and then I freak out and I have to separate myself and so yeah i mean i resonate with just like having moments where i've just needed to like get up go outside be like re-center myself take some deep breaths learn what i've learned in therapy or use what i've learned in therapy and like allow myself to like calm my body down and then once i'm physically calm it helps my mental clarity right because if you're if your if your body is tense if you're if you're

feeling all of that in your stomach and in your chest and you know starts to feel like you can't breathe that sort of thing. That's only going to trigger your mind to continue to think like, oh, fuck, something's really wrong, you know? So it's when you can kind of, yeah, like allow yourself to like, okay, I'm good. Go back into the scenario and allow yourself to just like maybe sit with that uncomfortability, right? Where like maybe you're still feeling or thinking those things, but not allowing them to like

manifest themselves as deeply. And I mean, honestly, there's a lot of just like, dealing with it that comes with this sort of shit you know like you just have at a certain point you just have to sit there and kind of deal with it and allow yourself to like move past it you know which sucks but well i i think it's like we have to get a relationship with it because i do think that we all have i believe that most people are on the spectrum of some kind of some kind of kind of anxiety, OCD, all the things. It's not like a new idea. No. We're not the first people to be anxious. We're not the first people to have to deal with this. And then measure, if we could

measure it against the trauma or the things we went through in our childhood. Now, some people, it's nature, right? They're born. The wiring's a little different. Now they're going to have the work on that. Yeah. And then some of us, you know, me, there was trauma, different trauma, right so i didn't even know about it until i was older and someone was like you should go talk to someone and figure out like like like a therapist told me this he's like it feels to me like you suffered some trauma and i was like no i didn't well how was your childhood oh it was great they're like tell me about it yeah tell me about it and you start telling them and i'm like oh that yeah you need because we'll take whatever our childhood was and we'll put a a filter

on it to live with it. Right. Because it was our childhood. So we got to turn it into something positive for ourselves. So we'll hold on to things as positives that weren't. Right. Because it was the best option to pick out. Yeah.

Right. And you could actually go like, no, the holidays were not a happy time ever. But I made them a happy time with this, this and that. So, you know, I eat tons of food in the holidays because that was the happy part. Right. Right. Right. But everything else was to take.

terrible. So why are you such a bad gift receiver? Why are you such a bad, why are you not good at these family things? Well, you never had another experience but bad. And then you put a lens on everything like, no, it was great. It was, you know, and I think it's something like we all have some version of that. Totally. Whether it's trauma or this or that. And then we have to do the work at to some age you're not responsible for it right

but then you've become an adult and you're fully responsible for for how you behave yeah and so you have to go back and excavate yeah you got do the work unpack do the work yeah

that's why I think therapy is good for everyone absolutely and if we can get whatever our ticks are and whatever our emotional baggage is or our behavioral response to whatever it is whatever habits we formed growing up. The anxiety became a habit to deal with the trauma. Right. But at a certain age,

it doesn't work. Right. It didn't work in your 11, but at the time, you didn't know how to drive the, how to fly the plane. Right. You get to an age where you're like, no, I got to go do the work. Enough people are telling me that something's off. Right. And I'm through my 20s, I was like, fuck you, I'm not off, you're off. Yeah. But then you go, wait. If enough people are telling me, I always tell people, if you have a problem with more than one person in your life, you need to go in and look at. Yeah. There shouldn't be more than one problem with one person. That's fair.

You know what I mean? If you have a problem with five people, likely you're the problem. Exactly. Exactly. Any more than three. I'll give you three. Yeah. I always say that when I have a friend, they're like, this blah, blah, blah.

And I was like, I'll always zoom. I was like, let's zoom out. Right. How many of these problems do you have? Right. And be like, none. And I'm like, no, be real. Like, let's count through.

And if it's more than three, I think you need to go and talk to somebody about you. Yeah, exactly. But if we learn how to manage the OCD down, it can be a good thing. Yeah. My theory is if we can get it to the sweet spot, you'll come and you won't find a cleaner house. You won't find a more organized office. When my anxiety's down and my OCD is just right, everything's in place. Yeah.

Yeah, I feel it. Now, if I spiral, I'll just wreck the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's crazy to me when I think about how far I came and just doing the work on those little parts. Like, if I get my anxiety right to the right place, keeps me focused. Yeah. And I can live with it. And I can be super high functioning, high performance, do things at the highest level.

Sure, yeah. And now at my age at 44, I go, I know how to fly the first. plane. So I perform at a high level. And I think that's the strength we have if we can figure the wiring out and get it right and manage the thing to a one or a two or a three and keep it in the sweet spot. Because if we're OCD, I don't know how your OCD acts out, but mine is super organized, has to be, everything feels like a mess. Sure. I'll look at everything and be like it's a fucking mess and I'll be overwhelmed. And too overwhelmed even to do anything about it. But when I get it to the sweet spot, I can do, I can keep things in enough order, but let things slide.

Yeah. I mean, fuck man. I wish my OCD manifested itself like that. But unfortunately, it doesn't. I have, so underneath like the subcategories, right, of obsessive compulsive. I think like the general kind of understanding of OCD is that like, oh, it's like, you know, you're either like super organized or like you're a germaphobe, so you're super clean or like, know, you have to do certain patterns to make sure that you, you know, make sure things are in place

and safe and whatever. And I think that's like a very common. That's me. Right. And on a three, that's perfect. Totally. I'm a germaphobe enough that I'm clean, but I can shake hands enough. Right, right. And I think that's like a, that's like a very common experience for people with OCD. But I count hands when I shake hands. Right. Yeah. I count up to five and then I have to wash my hands. Dude, I'm with you. And I don't touch anything after the second hand shake. One hand shake, I can, these days I can let it slide and I can like continue through my life after one hands. But any more than one, I have to wash my hands.

Yeah. And I get a little like, gets a little hair. It's crazy. I get it. I'm with you. I mean, I'm, yeah, I'm, I can be the same way. But my OCD is very much what's considered pure O. So the idea is that it's like the obsession is more of like the mental thing, right?

the obsession, if you're somebody who is a chronic hand washer because you're afraid of germs, the obsession is with the germs. The compulsion is washing your hands over and over and over again to deal with the germs. And that turns into, and the compulsion fuels the obsession, which fuels the compulsion, which fuels the obsession, it's constant cycle. But you can kind of live with it. Right, until it's like out of hand, right? With pure O, there's a lot less of the compulsion. side of things, or at least less of the physical compulsions, right? With pure, oh, the obsession is more the problem and the internal kind of like, you know, paranoia.

Intrusive thoughts, paranoia. It could be anything, right? It could be, I had a weird thought like when I was driving my car, because everybody does this, right? I'm driving my car and I think, oh, I could just like swerve off the road and, and nail the person on the sidewalk and just obliterate them right now. Obviously, you're not going to do that, right? No, of course not.

No one in the right mind would ever, right? But it goes on a loop or something. Right. So normal people have that thought and think, that was fucking weird. Anyway, going about my day. Frontal lobe. Right. People with OCD or pure O in my case, right?

I'll have a thought like that and I'll be like, oh, fuck, why did I have that thought? Do I actually want to do that? And then I'm like, oh, my God, what would happen if I did that? Oh, I would go to prison or I, you know, like, what would that person's my god, I'm going to prison now. Oh my God, I'm going to prison. Yeah. And then you, and then before you know it, you start doing the, the internal mental compulsions, which are like, okay, I'm going to replay that in my head and I'm going to see how it makes me feel because I want to test if I actually want to do that or not. Do I want to do that? And I'll think about it again. And I'm like, no, I don't want to do that. Okay, I'm okay. But then something, like, some other thing will come up and I'll be like, got to replay that because I need to make sure that in this scenario, you know what I mean? And then before you know it for like hours at a time, you could. be looping this horrible, horrible image in your head of something that you don't actually want to do or that you would ever actually do. But therefore wasting time.

Right. Wasting time and only causing yourself more stress and anxiety because this thing that is haunting you is so bizarre and out of character. And it's like this little thing over here that doesn't matter. It does not fucking matter. But for whatever reason, it's right here all day. You're just thinking about it. And that's where my OCD manifests itself.

And obviously that's a very like specific. It makes sense though. You know in the Howard Hugh in the movie, the aviator, when he's trying to get the little spot out of the shirt. Right. And then the shirt gets soaked. Right. It's like that little thing causes this.

It's one little stain that you turn into like the biggest mess in, you know, in your head. But at the end of the day, it's just it's a normal everyday thought that people can have, right. But where it gets scary is when it starts to be thoughts like that that like, then, you know, my brain likes to do this thing where it's like, oh, you think that was a bad thought, well, here's an even worse one, you know, like, what if this happened? And then you're like, fuck, dude, like, and you start catastrophizing everything to the point where, again, it causes just like severe, severe anxiety and stress. And I can't even function at certain points because I'm just so

worried about what's going on in my head even though it's all just in my head. At this stage in your life though, how often are you dealing with that level? Much, much less. And I go through phases. I'd say there's probably like at least one time per year where for anywhere from like a day to like maybe a couple weeks I'll be in like a bad head space. And again, it's usually caused from certain triggers of mine. Occasionally it could just be like, oh, I have a, I have a nightmare

or something in which something bad like that happens or I do something like that. And then I wake up and I'm like, fuck, why did I have that dream? Like, does that mean something? Whatever, you know. Is it in high stress times, you think? Yeah, I think that stress definitely like compounds it, you know? I think most recently, actually most recently I had like a two day stretch on this last tour where I was feeling a little off.

And it was because I had had a dream that had like really kind of. set me off in a weird way and I was just feeling weird for a couple of days. But it was also like we had been on tour for three weeks. I was losing my voice. I was stressed out about like not being able to play the show. That's real. Yeah. You know, so I was at a point where I was like stressed about other things. And then it's like that's when that's when the anxiety, that's when the OCD kind of creeps up because it'll take advantage of your weaknesses, your your soft spots, right? And in those moments where you're a little bit more vulnerable, I think that's when it can can can really compound itself.

I actually think it's trying to protect you. Right. And so if you just, even though you don't want to deal with it and you don't want it to happen, if you reframe the problem as something that actually is a likely it's connected to your superpower, which is writing songs, performing, doing something that very few people can do successfully. You know, if we did the math on how many people can be successful. at what we do. It's a very low number of people that can actually have success making art,

music, and doing what you guys have done. So that's a positive. It's likely super connected to that wiring. And therefore, I always try to remind myself with this so I don't carry like shame around it. And like, because we are all made individually, uniquely. And I, and I, and I talk to people like when I meet people, a lot of people will talk to me about how they feel. and their anxiety and stuff. And I always try to remind people like, we have to learn how to manage it and we do want it to go away

to a point where it doesn't get in our way. But it is likely connected to why we're so good at what we do. Yeah. And first we have to recognize we're good at what we do. Sure. Which is hard to do for a very long time. I couldn't do that. Now I'm like, you know what?

I am good at what I do. And whether you like it or not. Yeah. There'll always be someone that like will, will listen to what I do and I'll enjoy even if it's 10 people if I can share it with them I know I'm gonna get 10 yeses at least right yeah and so I had to build a positive relationship with what I do in the world first and then I had to build a positive relationship with that anxiety and stuff so that I could actually not hate myself right for it because for so long I hated myself for it because it

was embarrassing yeah like I would have to like when I was younger it was really embarrassing now as a grown man, I'm not embarrassed by it. I'll tell someone if I'm at dinner like, yo, having a little panic attack. If we're friends, I'm going to tell you, I'm having a little panic attack. I'm going to go outside. Give me five. And if I don't know you, I'm probably going to get up and go to the bathroom. Yeah. But either way, I'm not ashamed. It just depends on our relationship if I'm going to share with you or not. And it's not happening often enough that like I feel like I have it under control. I have a relationship with it that I can manage. Sure. And I did work on it though. That was that was 10 years. I would say by the second year

therapy I had it in a great place. And then it was like I start I'm pretty competitive work wise. So I wanted to fucking nail it. So I was like really working for a long time. But I do think that we have to learn to appreciate the system that we have in us as like a part of what makes us unique. Totally. And it's our job to learn how to manage it. Yeah. So that doesn't get in the way of us being unique and being successful.

Yeah. But then also to like not necessarily like feel shame or hate it, hate it, but just go like, yo, my OCD is crazy. It makes me do this. Yeah. I think like the good thing about, you know, being able to like talk about it and bring it more into like the limelight, right? and discuss mental health and put mental health into our riding or whatever it is.

And, you know, it's all helping the destigmatization of mental health struggles, right? I think even, you know, when I was growing up, the idea of like somebody needing to be on a medication for like their brain, I was like, whoa, like that's weird. Like you're like you must be crazy. Like there must be something seriously wrong with you. I felt that way about therapy. Yeah, I'm saying. In the 90s, we were like, therapy.

Yeah. That's for like fucked up people. Yeah, it's for wackos, you know? Like, and it's like, it's like that whole idea was so prevalent for so long. But now it's really shifting and it's changing and it's becoming okay to like have those issues and to be medicated and like, you know, to bring those things into everyday conversation and whatever. So, I mean, I love and I respect like that you can be straight up with your with your people and just be like, yo, I'm feeling super anxious right now, I need a second. Because that's something that I still struggle with.

You know, like, I will always kind of, like, crumple into myself if I'm feeling a certain way. And then it's not until somebody points out, like, hey, are you good? Like, you seem a little weird that I'm like, honestly, like, no, I'm, like, not feeling great right now. Like, I need a second. But I'm never the first person to, like, admit it because I am, like, you know, there's still always, like, that kind of, like, initial knee-jerk reaction of, like, oh, I need to hide this, right? Yeah, I don't want anyone to know because it's embarrassing because you know what it is even when you're going through it. Right. Yeah. It sucks because like I, and it's something that I'm working on, you know, but yeah, I mean, I, I'm still guilty. How old are you? I'm 28. Oh, dude, you're 16 years younger than me. You're good. Like you're way ahead of the game. I wasn't in this conversation until I was 32. Yeah.

Yeah. And my whole 20s were really tough. And I was so lucky. to have super kind people around me, whether it was the relationship I was in or the friends I had, everyone was kind. And they all pointed me in that direction. Totally. They were always, I was always like, they were like, I think you're like, anxious

and I'd be like, along the way, people would, there was a few people in my life through my 20s that got me to when I was like 30, I started going to therapy. And then I'm super obsessed with work. So therapy became work to me. Yeah. And I just started going in on it.

And like, I was like, if it takes some people five years, it's going to take me five months. I'm going to do it in 10% of the time. Right? Or whatever that is, six months. So I was always doing the math on things going like, how much more efficient can I be? Right. At what I'm doing than the average. And I want to beat everything by like 80%.

Sure. And so I started obsessing over the progress. Right. You know, and there's something to that too. Like the obsessiveness I have is always on the projects I'm working on or the things I'm doing. Yeah. Which can be annoying if I don't manage that as well. Totally.

Because that is anxiety and OCT acting out in a positive way, I think. Yeah. And I think like, I think it's important to be upfront and to be like enthusiastic and like really into your own progress and your own. recovery from whatever it is that your ailments are and what you're struggling with, right? But at the same time, I think it's like important to remember too that like, I always say this like healing is like it's not linear. Like it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not you're starting here and you're going to end here and it's going to be like this the whole time.

It's like you're going to have ups and downs. You're going to have great days. You're going to have terrible days. You're going to have stretches of time that feel like you're not making any progress at all and like you've plateaued from that plateau. You might even end up coming back. a little bit and being worse off than where you were before. But eventually you start to work your way back up, you know.

Well, it's, I like to say it's like I use the word dynamic. Absolutely. Yeah. And I try to always remember to, because we are all dynamic. Yeah. We're not linear. And if anyone's bought the lie that they're linear and they're boring, they're, they're just believing a lie and they've, they've surrendered to the lie. Now, every person I meet, I see something in them that's dynamic.

every person. And I'm obsessed with that. If it's at a coffee shop or if it's at a restaurant or if it's on a plane, wherever I go. And when I talk to people and I look at them and I have one conversation with them, I always find something dynamic about them. And then I tend to attach my idea of them to that idea. So that can be a real weakness though. Because you will find a dynamic aspect to someone.

But the majority of them have not developed. And you can bet if you're not careful about understanding where people are and meeting them where they actually really are, even if they have a dynamics special unique quality to them, you also have to zoom out and you do have to look at, you've got to meet people where they really are because you can make the wrong bets on people. And you have to invest in people that are investable where they're at right now. you can't want them to be here and then invest in them with like they're here and they're still there right so like who we invest in because our time is the most precious resource we have sure in my opinion it's not money it's time so our time and with people we give it to we have to give it to people that are investable right and so when we look at people we have to meet them where they really are we have to see what's special about them and be a dynamic but if they're

really in a bad spot and that spot would hurt you if you invested in it because they can't get out of it on their own, you have to measure that and try to see who can you really help? Those people are always worth helping because there's a lot of, it's a rich experience when you help someone to get to a new place in life. Absolutely. And certainly the people in my life that have helped me have had that experience with me and I've had that experience with people and we pay it forward.

Absolutely. And it's this like special relationship we build with one another in the world. Yeah. That's investable people. Yeah. There are people who are, if you're realistic about where they're at, you have to measure, like, I can't invest my time in that person right now. They don't want to not be addicted to drugs or they don't want to not do the things they're doing

that are hurting themselves. Yeah. But I really believe that we're super dynamic. And therefore, when we're in that pendulum of the highest highs of life, the joy, but also the pain, it's dynamic. And we have to remember that in the healing, just like you said. It's all over the place.

Yeah, it really is, man. Yeah, and it just, yeah, pendulum, you know, always going to swing. But yeah. So do you think, or someone who could be, who could, you could say has bouts or fits of things like paranoia, anxiety, OCD, the things, all the different ways we experience it, that you chose a interesting,

like career paths thing to do with your life where everyone is looking at you and they're like maybe they're looking at maybe they are looking at you because you're covered in tattoos and you look kind of like that band I think I like.

Yeah, no I mean that's yeah that it's it's sort of crazy the position that I put myself in right? I mean I hate when there is a lot of attention on me. I hate it. So do you like performing? I do but here's the thing

about when I perform. is I kind of like compartmentalize right so like on stage and a lot of people will point this out on stage I'm a different person like the person that you're talking to right now this this like you know who I am on an everyday basis yeah this goes away like as soon as I walk out onto that stage like persona fucking switches and I'm just like I'm confident I'm like you know I'm really like aggressive and I'm and I'm barking you know around to the crowd and like really getting people hyped up and all that stuff and I'm doing my thing and I'm performing, right? But it's because I have to separate myself because if I think too hard about the fact that there's a thousand plus,

you know, in certain cases like upwards of like 10,000 people watching. Yeah. I will lose my mind. I'll freak out. Like I wouldn't be able to handle it. You know what I mean? So I have to just like put on this kind of like, you know, brave, courageous persona and that's who I I become on stage and then as soon as I'm off stage, even if I have like four or five people around me who are like, yo, great set, whatever. I'm like, thank you so much. There's a lot of people looking at me right now. I would really like it if I could just have, you know, one or two people or like, you know, like not be, not be surrounded by so many people. Like I just, I don't like attention. I've never liked attention. And it is, it's a stupid thing that I've done because here I am

being the center of attention on stage. And, and I have to just like allow myself to like, yeah, again like uh i have a theory embrace it you know i have a theory yeah so i think that that side of you that comes out on stage yeah first you have to acknowledge that it is a that it is you yeah yeah and that it is like a real part of you and that it may not be the dominant part of you because you haven't maybe learned how to integrate those parts of you and i think that's a thing that happens over time and I don't actually think we get there until we're in our 40s where we can integrate all the pieces of us. Sure.

And like thousands of years ago, we literally had to like kill bears or they would kill us. Right. Right. So it's in us still. Right. It's in our cells that we have to rise to challenges. And you see people do it every day. You see here people be heroic.

Right. Yeah. And like that's what we all get inspired by is the heroic acts, people saving other people, people sacrificing their lives for people or people risking their lives all the hero stories but also why we like why we all and I personally love to watch people

that are great on stage like great artists it makes me aspire sure because it's scary to be on stage to everyone else they're like that's fucking crazy I don't know what I do

people get stage right or they just they underperform right it's a thing on stage if you're not a good perform and you get out there, you're fucked. You're fucked. And you know, it's funny that you mentioned that

because I think that that's something that I've really had to learn over the years. You know, when we started out, I was not confident on stage. You know, I was very, very quiet on stage. You faced the task. Right. And you hadn't done it before.

Yeah. And our first show, my back was to the audience the whole time. I didn't turn around. Yeah. It was so weird. It was a weird story. But now I'm certainly not comparing us going on stage

to people risking their lives for other people. But what I'm saying is, there is this, like, there is this, like, fight or flight we have. Yeah. And we can certainly, like, run away or fall down trying, or not trying, but it either lives in us or it doesn't.

And at some point, the training wheels come off, and you're like, I'm fucking killing this bear. Yeah. And you go out and you do it. Because I know, for me, terrified of stage when we started.

Yeah. and still anxious before we go on. Oh, yeah, that anxiety never goes away. But you're like, but it's a different anxiety, right? You become more focused and less edgy and uncomfortable and kind of, I used to be like downright, kind of like unpleasant. Yeah. Like I needed to be alone because I was so tweaked by the idea that in an hour

we're going on stage. Right. 45 minutes, we're going on stage. Yeah. 30 minutes. Oh, my God. It's getting too close. Oh, yeah.

The countdown. I'm familiar, man. Oh, God. Okay, now we have to go. and then you know and then but then you go out on stage and when you learn how to surf that wave yeah it gets fun it's awesome yeah it's so much fun i'm so glad that i'm at a point now where i've been able to like make that shift right you're good on stage thank you i appreciate that's probably do you also like find like the way you guys are kind of like you let people everyone's on

you can come on stage you can stage oh yeah i mean it's part of the whole it's it's very much part of like, I think like my bread and butter. I mean, I grew up in Orange County. I grew up in the hardcore scene. Like, you know, my home venue is chain reaction. You know, I've been to legendary hardcore shows at chain reaction. Yeah. That energy, that feeling of like the community, the, the intimacy of like a small fucking packed out room and kids just going fucking nuts. Like that's what I I love. I live for that shit. So yeah, man, we do encourage, like, a little bit of a rowdyer crowd. We're not a hardcore band by any means, but, I mean, it's definitely in our blood.

It's in our bones. And we... I hear hardcore in it, though. There's elements for sure, especially in the earlier stuff. There was a lot of, like, you know, some... We took a lot of that away from it, but while still wanting to be more of, like, an emo band or whatever. I mean, we kind of genre-bended a few times throughout our time so far, and I'm sure

it will continue to be a gray area. I feel like you guys are like a post-hardcore, like true post-hardcore sounding emotional rock. That was the vibe. I mean, that was exactly what we were going for to begin with. And now it feels like just a more evolved version of that. Like to me, it still sounds like you kept all the good emotional parts, but it's got, it feels like the music's grown.

So it's a little, you know, you could say indie rock. or like even just rock and roll it doesn't feel as like cookie cutter to me as if you just said rock sure there's a lot of things you get to say in your music that I don't think a lot of people could say get away with saying it honestly there's something and again I go back to your personal experience with your emotional you know your mental health yeah I think it's that dude I think it's that wiring that gave you the license that a lot of people don't have. So there is some appreciation you have to have for how you were made up. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I love it, man. I think that like, especially with, I mean, you know, that's, that's very much like the entire thing like about

hardcore, right? It's honest. It's in your face. It's like it's fucking angry people with something to say. At its best. Yeah. And it's best. And turning that into something, you know, that maybe, maybe at its core, like, lyrically it's, like, aggressive and it's, and it's harsher, it's mean or fucking whatever, but turning it into something positive at the end of the day with the community around you and making, it really curating that community. And I think that movements has done a good job of that. You know, I think our fan base are all very, like, in tune with what it is that we're doing, you know,

and that we're creating because they resonate with it on more than just a musical level. They resonate with it on an emotional level and on a level where they can feel comfortable and feel like feel comfortable expressing themselves and and and letting out that sort of shit that maybe you aren't letting out in other you know areas of your life but also being a part of something bigger and being a part of a community that embraces that and breeds that and turns it into you know something really special and positive so yeah I mean going back to the live show setting I mean, like, we try to, like, really, you know, embrace that. And, like, I hate a crowd that just stands around, you know.

Yeah. I want you to get, I want you to get rowdy. I want you to fucking climb on top of each other. I want you to fucking crowd surf. And if there's no barricade stage dive, if there's a barricade fucking stage dive, I don't give a shit. Do it. You know what I mean? Like, I'm all about that stuff.

So, yeah, I love it, man. And again, I mean, I think, I think you're right. Like, it wasn't until I could embrace, you know, more of that, like, confidence on stage to like tell people to do that. Because in the beginning, it happened naturally. The rooms were small. We were playing with like hardcore bands. We're playing with bands that like the, the energy was already there.

So I didn't really have to do a whole lot. It wasn't until we started playing bigger rooms. We started touring with different acts. We started, you know, being in scenarios where that's less of the, of the reaction right off the bat that I had to start really learning how to control a crowd and to like, make a crowd want to do those things. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think one of the things I like about movements is you guys do take the elements

I love about hardcore. Yeah. And like I say, something at its best is the thing we like, the thing we love, right? You guys take so much good stuff and you put it into your music in a way that we can appreciate, but you're still you. Yeah. So you're not boxed in by anything. So the potential is endless because you guys could make any record you want to make.

And I think that's important for music because we don't box ourselves in. Yeah, absolutely. You guys are going to come up on 10 years as a band pretty soon. Pretty soon. What are you the most proud of movements? I think I'm the most proud of the fact that one, we're still doing this. And two, that it seems like we're still on an upward trajectory. Yeah, yeah, for sure you are.

I think when the band started, I tried to be extremely realistic about it in the sense of like what the longevity of the band could be. And in my mind, I told myself, if we get 10 years out of this thing, that's like, that's pretty much best case scenario. You know, I'm looking at bands who were in a similar genre to us or similar realm to us who had been at it for a while. Yeah. I think everybody, once they hit that 10 year mark, it's like, yeah, you've either done a great job and you've made it or you've kind of fallen off, you know? So I was always always love like, look, like best case scenario or, or, you know, I guess technically if you look at it like worst case scenario, like, you know, 10 years is like a good, like if we make it by then great. Huge accomplishment. Yeah, it's huge accomplishment.

If we make it to there, great. If that's as far as we make it, that's fine, you know. I think the thing I'm most proud of is the fact that here we are coming up on 10 years and it's like, we're just getting started. That's how it feels, you know, especially with the release of the new record. I mean, ruckus has, we've seen huge growth from it already. We just got off of a six-week tour. It's a great album. Thank you.

Yeah, we just got off of a six-week tour the first time touring that record, headlining it. Fucking all the five shows sold out. The shows that didn't sell out got damn near close to selling out. It didn't matter. Yeah, fucking, I asked on stage every single night. I was like, yo, who's seen us before? And, you know, kids would raise their hands.

And I'm like, all right, who's never seen us before? Who's new to this band? Half the crowd every single night, new faces. And I'm like, yo, that's crazy. Like, we're seeing more growth now than we've seen since, like, since the beginning. Since the band started and we had kind of that, like, immediate, like, really, like, intense growth right off the bat. You know, and then maybe it kind of leveled out over the years. We're back to another spurt, a growth spurt where we're seeing all these new faces and stuff.

And the fact that we're still continuing to reach new people gives me so much hope for like the next 10 years. Now my goal is like, all right, fuck it. Let's go, let's go 20 years. You know, what's going to happen at the 20 year anniversary of this band? Are we going to do another 10 after that? Are we going to end up doing it for 30 years? You know, like, what's going to happen? And the fact that that is even fathomable to me at this point, right?

The fact that like I can see that as a very real possibility is incredible. It's the best feeling ever. Yeah, it is a good feeling. Yeah. It makes me think, when I think about that, I always just relate to my band, because that's the only experience I have. Right.

I think, well, I don't want to be in a band with anyone else. So I'm an amena. And like my music, my hair can be able to be able to continue my rhythm. For so, Potion Nine, of Sebastian Professional, has all what my hair needs. Nutrition Profunda,

protection against the encresado, 99% less of rotura, and puntas aviour under control. New potion 9 of Sebastian Professional, the secret professional of who not are the tendencies, but of who are the people who are

the passion in a business with Shopify and bathe records of ventas with the form of pay with a better conversion of the world. You've heard it. The best conversion of the world.

The incredible system of the Pago of Shopify facilita the company on your site web, in the networks and in any place. That is music for

your ears. No, let's more Wiltas, your negotiation your new thing. Start your

period of a period of per year for a year on Shopify at shopify at

records. Exactly. I love the guys I'm in my band with. We've been together since

high school. Yeah. I'll never be in another band. Yeah. I just know that about

myself. I don't want to be in another band, but I learned my relationship with my band had everything

to do with my relationship with myself. Sure. Two questions I've learned just in the

last couple years, just in the last year or two, really what I've learned to ask people when they come and tell me about their idea. I'm starting this. We have this band. We've been together for two years. Or I have this company I've started a year in. Whatever the dream is, I've learned to ask on a personal level if it's one-on-one. You love it. Yeah, I love it. Do you love yourself? It's a tough question to ask someone. Yeah, it is. Because it's a weird one. And they're like, uh, yeah. And I'm like,

I would just focus on making sure I love myself as much as I love my dream. Yeah. And then if I learn to love myself, I'm going to love my dream even more. Yeah. And then what is it about you that makes you special? Because I think going back to our mental health, I spent so many years hating it. In fact, in turn, hating myself and that part of myself. Right.

And learning to embrace it and love it and see it as a thing that makes me unique. And I have to learn how to drive this. car, it's a different car, right? It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a little bit more complicated than a more basic car. Sure. But when I started looking at it that way, I started to find something special. Yeah. So when I talk to people, especially on this, this show, people listening, a lot of people are trying to build things. They're trying to build their lives, their dreams, their businesses, their careers. But they hate something about themselves. And they need to go and like figure out how to love it. Yeah. And then when you figure that out,

you actually, it's almost like a superpower because you can embrace what you're doing and not just go, well, I'll never be as good as them, but I'll be me. There's a version of it where you are better or different or whatever it is. And I think sometimes as bands, we bring our low self-esteem that got us into the band in the first place, which is a good thing. So we have to be grateful for that. But then we have to work on it and like make sure that we're not boxing ourselves in. and limiting ourselves into what kind of impact we can have. We don't know what our art. We don't know the impact our art's going to have.

It may not be the number one song, but it might have an impact on a small group of people that feel alienated or it might help one or two people. The impact is so hard to measure that we have to believe that. Yeah. And then we can focus on the art and do things we really believe in. Yeah. and be happy in the relationship because I love my band.

I love being married to these guys essentially 20, 26, 27 years. And we've had our moments, you know, like all people. We're all going through life and figuring out how to build families and do all the things. But we arrived to a place where we're like, we love being together and whatever that means, come what may, whatever we decide to do together, you know, we're going to make music or we're going to do this. We also don't limit ourselves in what's possible for what we can achieve. Right. And some of those achievements might not be visible to anyone else.

Yeah. But it's important, I think, that we like stop and like do an inventory as a band of like what we've achieved. Yeah. Personally together. Like Billy and Paul, I look at them. We've been together for so long. And they're like amazing dads. And they're, you know, great husbands.

And I admire that. maybe more than I admire like how their musicianship or how dependable they are all the good qualities of them being in a band with them with that experience is like watching them kind of have personal lives that they show up for makes me a better you know in my own life like married being a father all the things that you have to kind of figure out yeah there's no real manual for it yeah you model it after people that you admire. Absolutely. And I would say, like, as much as the music we've made together has had an impact

in my life, it's given me a life, actually just our personal relationships with each other, watching them make decisions. Yeah. I'm like, man, I fucking feel great about the decision I made when I was 15. Yeah. And I don't know. There's something full circle about that. Absolutely.

Yeah. I think it's not always easy, right? Like being, like you said, like married to your guys. because that's the way that we look at it too. You know, like I'm, I'm very much in a relationship with every person in my band. Some very multidimensional marriage of all these different relationships. Yeah, and it's not always easy to juggle that,

and it's not always easy. Like, you're going to have issues just like you would in any marriage or any relationship, right? There's going to be difficult times. There's going to be really, really fucking great times. I think the thing that is so special to me about, like, having that group of people is like they're you they're more than just your friends or dudes that you make music with like they

become your family and it's so cool when you have a group of people who work so well together right that you end up it's one thing having best friends it's an entirely separate thing having best friends having best friends who can come together and make something like straight up magical you know what I mean, because like creating music and, and continuing to, like, improve on your musical ability and your songwriting studios and whatever, there's something like, really, like, spiritually, like, fulfilling and, and magical about that experience. Every single time that we go into the studio and, you know, we go and we write and record with Will, and will, in our opinion, is very much like the fifth member. Will's the goat. He's the best.

dude. And he is like truly the fifth member of our band. We're a quartet, but Will's the fifth dude. How did you mean Will? And what record did he make that you were like, I got to have Will produce this? Bro, let me tell you. He's made, he's made almost all of my favorite records from all my favorite bands. I mean like it was it was when I started getting into like the more melodic side of like the hardcore Jason shit. So like title fight being a huge, huge band for me, right? I saw the they made so the record is

called Sheds their second full length it's the first one that they recorded with Will and they did like this whole VHS documentary about it I was obsessed with that record came out like I think I was a junior in high school found out about Will through them through title fight did some more research realized

oh this producer's worked with balance and composure he's done fucking daylight at the time now Super Heaven another you know one of my favorite bands of all time worked with Tiger's Job, Piano's Become the Teeth, Law Dispute, basically every band that was like... That you loved.

That was formative for me in high school for like what I wanted to create, right? That I was like, yo, this is the dude. He is the goat. Like, that's my dream. I want to work with him. It wasn't until we started making music and putting together songs and stuff. And then we started getting label interest, right? both fearless records and hopeless records

and I think Equal Vision at one point after we had put out our first few demos and played some shows and whatever had like shown some interest. And who'd you go with? We went with fearless. Okay, great. And the reason why we went with fearless

because it was fucking neck and neck, dude, like we were so torn between who we wanted to go with. Right. We went with fearless because they legitimately said to us like, who do you want to work with? And we said, Williip, that's our guy. We want to do something. The legend.

And he, literally, and so our A and I go, we'll get you well. And I was like, okay, yeah, sure. We get a call maybe week or two later. He's like, hey, talks to Wiliip. He's on board. He wants to do your guys' first record. You know, he sees like the, he sees the vision. He fucks with it.

If you sign with us, like, we'll make it happen, like right off the bat. And we were like, fuck, like, okay, sick. So yeah, we signed with Frearless because of that. And obviously, like, too, because we like the team over there. They're all fucking great people. Yeah. It was obviously an incredible opportunity for us to even be considered, to even have the consideration of these labels to want to sign our baby band that nobody really knew.

But they wanted to take a chance on it. It seemed to work out too. It's worked out great, man. And we've been on Fearless ever since. And we've done every single one of our records on Fearless with Will. And so he's truly become like our best friend over the last 70, years, you know, of just working together. And when we get together and we sit down in a room with Will, the four of us and will we always make the best shit that we've ever made, you know? And we

started to recognize that. Like, because originally we would write our songs ourselves, bring them into Will, you know, do pre-pro for like a week or whatever, adjust stuff, change stuff around, fix things, you know, whatever. And he would help us shape them into, you know, great songs. If they were good before, he made them great. We started to realize that every single time that we were in there, in that process with Will, he was just firing off ideas that were like, yo, that's it. That's the song. You know, like, why didn't we think about that? Like, that's incredible. That's when a relationship with a producer and a collaborator is good. Yeah. That's what it feels like. Absolutely. Yeah. And so. The icing on the cake. It is. And then, and then when it came to writing the latest record

ruckus, we were like, dude, fuck doing anything just like the four of us. Let's just go to the studio and let's spend like a month at a time just not even recording, just sitting there with Will and writing a song every day. And let's just see what happens. And it truly, I mean, in my opinion, it's our best work we've ever made. Yeah, I agree. Songwriting wise, it's certainly, it's certainly, growth. Yeah, it's certainly the most advanced. It's, I think the most accessible to a wide range of like an audience. You know, there's a little bit of something for everybody on this record. And I don't think that it would have been as good had Will not been there the whole time really helping us and really like crafting these songs and turning them into what they are. So I mean, yeah, that's been

incredible. And I mean, I've said it a couple of times. I'll say it again, it's a magical experience. Like there's something like unexplainable that happens when you're in a setting like that and you just come out of it feeling so fucking good about about everything and it just it gives you a whole new love for being in a band and being able to do this shit for a living you know and being able to like be like yeah i'm just gonna i'm gonna go write music with my best friends and we're gonna make something fucking awesome that we're all super stoked about and then we're gonna go tour on it all year like that's sick so for will and you working with them every day and getting to know him really closely you know him better than i do but i i certainly know him and i just like have always found him

to be an influence in music that it's like for those who know yeah right will will's one of those guys but absolutely when you see greatness you recognize greatness like i i think um i i i definitely saw that um but i also noticed something about him so i'm curious on a scale of one to 10 on a day to day How positive would you say Will is one to ten? Will is an 11 out of 10 on the positivity scale every day. Okay. So that was my theory with Will. Dude, every day.

I don't think I've ever seen him be negative about a situation. I find him to be overwhelmingly positive. Yeah. And I have a theory about that. So the, well, it's not just a theory. I mean, it's proven that optimists do better. Right. But when you see it in an action, it's different than a,

a theory. Right. So for those of us who have struggled with any kind of pessimism or, you know, depression, things, all the, the symptoms of the stuff that we were talking about can be pessimism and a pessimistic view of the world, right? Yeah. So our worldview on any given day can be on the negative versus positive. Sure. We know that if we go into situations with a positive mindset, we're going to have a better outcome than if we go in with a negative mindset. We've all heard that. But in action, it's different than talking about it.

So me sitting here, anyone that's listening, maybe they're driving their car or they're walking or they're doing something and they're listening to this and they're going, yeah, I know that. I know that if I go into something with a positive mindset, my chances of a positive outcome are going to be higher, much higher than if I go in with a negative outcome. But then you meet people who are actually living that in action every single day. Yeah, dude.

And I think there's something about infusing that into our, actually as a part of the strategy, whether you guys planned it or not, you were a fan of the records he made. And so somehow, some way you were feeling his optimistic, positive influence before you met him. Right. And then when you met him, it confirmed in your gut, I knew I liked this guy. Yeah. Now, you weren't going, oh, because he's so positive. you were going oh because he made these great records the records are great but i in theory believe that

and he's a force of nature i think you know he's like all great you know collaborators and and characters in music and art when you meet those electric people yeah they have a way about them they have an energy about them i've seen a through line with like incredible creators you know when i think of like feral i've worked with him a bunch of times over the years and gotten to know him and insanely inspiring positive brings positivity to the room and you can and it electrifies the whole room and then everybody's working together and everybody's collaborating and now are the chances he's going to have more hits higher or lower because he brought that into the room right and i put will in that category and on that level of the way he the way he connects with a creative and then

electrifies the records and the rooms that he's in and makes these special records. Truly. And it's likely why I like your records. Yeah. Not just that. Right. Right. But it's a quality to the record.

Totally. That I find it's magnetic. Right. Right. I'm drawn to it because I want to do more like that. I always try to like, okay, let's watch the game tape and get rid of all the stuff that doesn't work. Right.

It goes back to if you have a problem with more than. one, two, three people in your life, max, you need to look at the game tape. Right. And you need to get rid of some of the strategy you're using. Right. Regardless of right or wrong. Yeah.

It's not working. Yeah. And so if we can look at our band that way, and if we have more than three problems, what are we doing? Right. Right. And I found with electric people, they bring success and they bring a better mentality of how we're going to run this play

so that when we go make the record, it's a better time. If we have a better time making the record, we're going to make a better record. If we make a better record, we're going to have better outcome. Right. And then we're going to enjoy the whole cycle.

Yeah. If we have a good time making the record. We have a bad time making the record. I don't know if we're going to enjoy the cycle at all. Yeah, it's going to suck. Until the next time. Yeah. And so I like,

if I use that as a metaphor for life, though. Yeah. And that's the great gift I think that music gave me was looking at the times we had and going, okay which ones were good and which ones were not a good time. And if we can have a better time most of the time with how we feel, we can have better results. And if we get a better result most of the time, we'll have a better life. Absolutely.

And have more success and more of everything we want. But we have to look, we have to check, are we having a good time here? Right. And maybe it's a toxic person or maybe it's us. Right. Either way, we have to face it. Sure. And do an inventory of it and try to like identify.

So will I find to be one of those great collaborators who brings an electricity that kind of electrifies the whole thing? Absolutely. Yeah. I think that was like the one of the most validating things too, like right off the bat was the fact that not only was Will down with this, but he saw the vision, you know, and that he was willing to take a chance on such a small band like what we were at the time,

you know, and really like get involved with it because he fucked with it to a level that he was like, yeah, I want to help develop this. And I want to take it to the next level. Having somebody that you look up to on a level like that care so deeply about what it is that you're doing. It's incredible. It was like the coolest feeling ever. Yeah. And that was just the beginning, you know, and now it would, And it's happened more and more and more over the years. And yeah, I think that like, yeah, he's been super influential on that. And like, yeah, his positivity is next level.

And I think he's taught me to have a lot more of a positive outlook and a more confident outlook on what we do as a band as well. That's been super influential. That to me is like a really important that you have people like that in your life. Yeah. You got to like seek those people out and then keep them in your life. Yeah. I've learned anyways that it has a major influence on me.

The friends of mine that always end up becoming collaborators somehow. We're collaborating on something in life in our friendship because we all tend to artists. We get in rooms and we make stuff. Yeah. Whether it's music or anything else. That's like our nature, right? Right. Man, positive people are so powerful.

Yeah. I always look, I always look for those people. Absolutely. Yeah. Cool, man. Yeah, it's awesome. I'm stoked to came. I'm really, I'm really stuck to be here, truthfully.

I mean, it's like, I don't know. It's one of those weird full circle moments for me too. Yeah. And not to like fucking get too fanboyy, but I mean, like, good Charlotte's a huge. I'm not joking, bro. Like, that's like a huge reason why, like, I'm even a musician. Like, for real. It was funny because we just, we just played when we were young.

I was bummed because I only got to see three songs and then I had to leave from y'all set to go play my set. Yeah. But I got to see, you know, I saw the first three you guys opened with the anthem and I was like, well, that's fucking crazy. You got to come out with the. Bro, I had my mom. We understood the assignment. Yes. Dude, I had my mom standing next to me, right?

Yeah. And my mother is like, she's fucking 60 something. I don't know, mid 60s, right? teeny little thing completely white hair she like stopped dying it or whatever like she's just like a cute little old lady at this point um and uh it was crazy having her there next to me because when i was a kid right i used to go on our on our family computer because i think at like eight years old i was introduced to good charlotte by an older cousin of mine yeah came and stayed at our house had his little walkman the gateway band straight up no like for real had his little walkman and then

I, when he would be, like, when he would be still sleeping in the mornings, I would, like, steal his walk in and I'd listen to whatever was. I remember those days. I used to steal my brothers. Yeah, dude. And so it, it was fucking you guys playing in there. And I was like, yo, like, I really like this, whatever. And then as a gift to me, like, as he, because he knew that I was, like, listening to it or

whatever, he ended up gifting me, uh, y'all's first record. And I was like, yo, this is crazy. Like, what the hell? Uh, and that was like a huge, like, influence to me getting into, you know, from, from good Charlotte. It was like, okay, found out about like some 41, found out about fucking even simple plan and, you know, all like the big like, you know, pop punk, like, yeah, big ass bands that were happening at that time. But it's funny because I was obsessed with the music video for the anthem. I love that music video. The whole style. Fucking awesome music video,

still to this day, like one of my favorites. Um, fucking. Frank Boren. Dude, like straight up like next level. Next level. Yeah, what a guy too. He still still makes amazing. Yeah, yeah. Now he produces them, but amazing. But yeah, like, that was a fun video. I would go on MSN music, okay? And I would watch, like, it was like 240 bits or whatever. You know, like the, like, it's so pixelated, like the worst quality video you could imagine, right?

And this was like, again, I was eight or nine years old. I'd go on, I'd fucking watch that video on repeat, dude. My mom, that's cool. My mom ended up getting charged something for whatever to her credit card from MSN. She's like, who's been using MSN, like all this shit? And I was like, oh, not me. I don't know. Fucking, she, she.

You guys remember these days? Dude, so one day, I'm like, I'm like, in our family office. I like open up MSN. It has like this little like, ding, ding, like a, you know, chime that happens when, when you open up the website or whatever. She hears it from the other room. And she comes in here. She's like, you're the one who's been racking up all these charges on my, on my credit card.

Why are you on MSN? you like don't use that it's it costs us money whatever i'm like i'm sorry i just want to watch the music video um anyway anyway so i wasn't allowed to go on msn music anymore and that was i think before youtube was even a thing so it was like i didn't know where the fuck to watch that shit so full circle moment there i am standing there in the crowd and little VIP section with my mom next and we hit the anthem first you guys played the anthem i look at my mom and i was like do you remember what happened with this song and i told her that whole story it was like it was very funny man it was like a full circle moment and then yeah dude and then fucking i go over i play my set

rip a set and uh and my mom for the first time ever because she's always usually like in the balconies and whatever for the first time ever my mother is like front and center like at the barricade watching our that's crazy uh because of the vip section being there it was like it was more accessible for her to like get there yeah and so i'm like watching my mom sing along to our set at this fucking massive that's sweet where you guys are playing like right down the way. And I'm like, dude, what the fuck? This is crazy.

Like blew my fucking mind, man. But the power of you and the power of all of us is that we can think of things and then do them. Yeah. And that is what I always try to like remind people is like, we're no, we're not special in what we can achieve. Yeah. We're special in the individual aspects of who we are.

And just like you, you're different than me. And your songs are gonna be. be your songs and mine are going to be mine and like that's the special part of what we do yeah but like you as a kid whatever it was in you that thought that little inkling of i think i could do that yeah that's the thing we got to hold on to yeah that first thought we had was our best thought i think i could do that then we'll talk ourselves out of i don't yeah probably kidding but they could so and that's what separates us. When someone doesn't make music,

it's not because they can't. We all have some musicality in us somewhere. People could argue with me like, no, they don't. We do somehow. You may not be a singer or you may not be a drummer or you can find what aspect of you can be part of the success of art or if that's what you want to do. But it's that first thought you had as a kid

wherever that started. where I was like, I think I could do that. Well, you can. Yeah. And you're doing it. And you're going to keep doing it because you're young. Yeah. And so the next 10 years, mark my words, are going to be the best 10 years.

I hope so, man. And then the 10 years after that'll be even better. Dude, that's the dream, you know. But that's the fucking dream. But you think it. I can tell you think it. So I already know it because you're here. And it takes a lot to get here.

Yeah. And I love your catalog. And that's 10 years of work. Yeah. But what happens after 10 years is you get faster, you get better at quicker at deciding, you get, you trust your instincts more, not less, everything ramps up. So if you allow it to and you go with it, you can be even more prolific and productive. But there's no time like the present to own that. Right.

And so where a lot of people waste time, which is my, man, I'll waste anything but time. Sure. I'll waste some money. I'll learn from my mistakes there. I'll waste a bunch of stuff, but I will not waste time. Time is the only thing we don't get back. And so there's no time like the present to start doing something that, you know, to get better at something, to start something that you, you know,

you had an inkling about. And someone said this to me the other day. My friend Jed, actually, I think it was Jed. Prolific author, right? I had the same conversation with him. Like, who told you that you could do this? You could write New York Times bestselling novel. Well, it was an inkling.

It was a thought. It was a feeling. I think I could do that. Yeah. And then doing it. No time like the present, but he said, you'll find the things that love you back and you'll end up loving them more and they'll take you down the path.

But you don't get those opportunities if you don't try things you're interested in because your interest leads to your time. talent. Right. Like there's something that our subconscious is calling us to do things by these feelings we have. And so the reason your band is great is because you should be doing it. It's loving you back. Those, the shows sell out. That's, that's life saying yes. Yeah. Right. We all have to figure out what those things are in our life, but we won't unless we try things. It's got to feel special. Yeah. Whatever that means. I don't even know what that means. feel you because it's not like big it doesn't have to feel big right it's just got to feel yeah you know

yeah exactly yeah maybe it's will yeah dude a good charlotte record with will that would be crazy that would be nuts oh shit i never that's fucking dope that would be sick yeah it'd be awesome man thank you for saying that stuff though yeah hey i mean i mean it bro it's uh yeah it really is like a very special thing for me to even to be here man it's special for me man it's special for me I mean, it's a special thing we get to do. Yeah. And when you get to meet other people who are good at it, I think it's inspiring. Yeah, it's sick.

Yeah, dude. Thanks for coming. Dude, thank you so much again for having me, man. I really, really appreciate it. Dude, come back when you guys make the next record. I would love to. Yeah. That would be awesome.

Yo, if you end up making a record with Will, I'll come hang out. Their conversation has started today. Dude, yeah, I'd fucking, I'd love for that to happen. That'd be so cool. Yeah, he's the best. Yeah, you rocks. Thanks, Pat. Dude, thank you so much.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode of Artist Friendly. If you really liked it, you can follow, like, subscribe to the show, anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support, and we'll see you next time.