Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Paul Stanley of KISS - Part 1

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Paul Stanley of KISS. Wicked Lester — an early ’70s band that Stanley formed with Gene Simmons — only performed a handful of times and failed to release an album, but planted the seed for a massively recognizable group in rock history. Through KISS, Stanley created his inimitable “Starchild” persona, a character who embodied glitz, romance, and sensuality through decades of elaborate, fire-breathing stage production. In a conversation with Madden, the celebrated rock legend and KISS frontman sits down for a raw, introspective conversation about legacy, fatherhood, personal growth, and the grind behind building one of the most iconic bands of all time. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'm talking with the lead singer, frontman, and co-founder of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame band Kiss. Paul Stanley, let's go. I don't want to bed times. I'm not a hoarder, but I could possibly be one if I let myself go there. I mean, you just find yourself, oh, I might need this one day.

Well, then buy it. but you don't need to put it in storage, you don't need it in your house. Do you think it's because I personally, I mean, I've talked about it in therapy, to be honest. I think it's something like growing up with not a lot and things being kind of hard to obtain when you're...

I think, yeah, I think that's part of it. But, you know, you tend to give something important that it doesn't have. This is a chair.

Yes. Whether your mom or dad sat in it, that's what you attach to it. It's a chair. So, you know, you don't need to keep things that you turn into something that they're not. Like you give it too much power importance because it's an old memory almost or it's a emotional thing that may be. Memory should be up here. Yeah. You can just clutter your life. You can wind up with suitcases and warehouses full of stuff. So yeah, I think that's like an ongoing thing is, I got to keep this because it was my mom's. Well, you know, your mom's not here, you know, whoever it is. Yeah. So do you need that? Probably not.

Yeah, it's a trip, man. That's funny we're talking about this. I was just thinking about this. Yesterday, going through, I got at the new house, it's more of a personal relationship with stuff. Like you're saying, like, I have all these boxes and I'm like ripping them out one at a time. and I don't want anyone touching my stuff. So that's the other thing is like my wife is a lot more like emotionally able to like not hold on to anything. She also grew up with and different than me. She grew up in Beverly Hills and I don't like differentiate us that way.

Like I have, I love how she grew up. I love her parents. But I grew up in like extreme poverty. And so I keep everything. Can't give that away. That could be worth something one day. Yeah. I mean people from the Holocaust generation.

People who were where they had everything taken from them or lived with uncertainty have that same characteristic of holding on what happens if. Uncertainty. Yeah. What happens if things go south? I need to have that. But I reached a point in my life where it kind of went, you know, when I die, do my kids need 5,000 kiss t-shirts? Yeah. You know, it's like they're going to go, what the hell did dad leave this?

for me. Yeah. And in my own way, I went through the same thing with my parents. You look at things and go, it's, it was theirs and it's just stuff. It has nothing to do. You're not insulting their memory by getting rid of it. Right. Again, it's like it's a suitcase or it's a, you know, it's a bottle. It's, it's, it's what you attach to it. The more you can let that go, the more free you are. Yeah. It's sweet though. It's sweet that we would want to remember people. And even though it'd be hard to let go of some physical things, the intention behind it is just holding on to someone because you loved them or you want to remember them.

You don't want to let go totally east, stuff like that. Yeah. But the best memories are in your head. Yeah. My dad died, I think, about four years ago. Oh, I'm sorry. I had a blessed time with him. Yeah.

And every time I think of him, he's with me. Yeah. he told me that he'd always be with me and he's with me so do I need his wallet do I need this no right so but I do understand you you want to have a certain standard or certain things but hoarding too much you know if you have one or two things I get it but the more you can free yourself of that stuff and that's something I only found as I got older because at one point in my life I had closets full of clothes. I mean, really.

And it becomes... Some cool ass clothes, though, bro. Yeah, but it becomes oppressive. It's kind of like, Jesus, you know, you're being suffocated by all the stuff. Yeah, you're hauling around all this stuff. Get rid of it. Have people come over, take it.

You know, I remember having somebody come over to my place, and I just opened all the closets and said, here's a suitcase, take what you want, you know. I'm not going to miss it. That's cool. That's some wisdom. You know, it's, you just unburdened yourself. You hold on to so much stuff.

You're so much more free. Yeah. And it's true. I mean, I think about, you know, my dad passed away in 2019. So like you, we had a very complicated relationship, but the last 10 years of our time together was incredible. Mine too. My two.

It was really, my dad lived to 101. Oh, wow. And the last 10 years were magic. I mean, that's pretty special. Yeah, until that time was kind of like magnets that are turned the wrong direction. They can't quite, they can't quite cement. But the last 10 years were just priceless. So that's what I have.

Yeah. And I kind of, I don't question it because it was so good. And we had a very, we had a good time. I think that's how it was meant to be. I think I had to go, the complications in our relationship, I didn't even think we chose them but they were there and as i got older i realized like he was just like me he was just a guy trying to figure out how to have a family adults are just kids that grew up yeah you know there's still somebody stumbling around trying to get it right yeah you know still got the same

shit going on so uh you know we we look at our parents or adults when we're kids as though they're perfect they're they're no different than we are yeah you know So if you go to the movies or if you read a book and it's not so great, but it's the end of it, you remember. You know, so that's the same thing that I experienced with my dad. And I think we can experience that with a lot of relationships. Yeah, there was some bad times, but it's all a means to an end. It's how it ends up. And it's the real experience of living and being a human is these like complicated,

things love is complicated life is complicated parenting is fucking complicated i always know like my kids are teenagers and i go you know what there's going to be some stuff that i didn't get right that you're going to have to work out and i'm going to be here for it like i'm here to sit with someone with my kids if they have everyone to let me have it i'm here to hear their experience and like but what's so nice to hear and we're just diving in but like to sit with you and hear you talk about that for a few seconds even is really comforting because you're this rock and roll legend you have all this experience right i always wonder there's that experience where you you've had this legendary career that's spanned decades but then there's the real person that's living their life and that's important for people

to see because we tend to get caught up in deifying looking at celebrities or musicians as perfect. And the best thing I can do is tell people I'm not. The less secrets you have, the more free you are. Yeah, right. Yeah. The more you can say to people who you are, you're not carrying that anymore. Yeah. And then you also find people going, oh, you too. So when you're talking about your dad in the last 10 years, somebody else like me will go, me too. Yeah. So when you put it out there, you'll find out that, You're not that different than everybody else, and it's healthy for you and for them. No secrets.

I agree with that. I think it's harder to practice, but I think that's also just like the wacky world of like being, you start as a kid, you start abandon a garage with your friends or, you know, you have a dream. And then you go on the ride and you work really hard and you do everything you possibly can. But you could never expect how it's. going to affect your life in success and failure and all the things. Well, because you can only understand, you only comprehend what's within your realm of experience. You don't know, I want to be famous. What does that mean? I'm going to get girls and I'll get money. Yeah, that's true.

But it's all the other stuff. Oh, it also means that these people aren't going to like me. and this person's going to be jealous. And, you know, there's so much that goes along that you can't know ahead of time. Yeah. You know, it's a work in progress. It's, you know, you don't know, got to turn the page. You don't know what's on the next page until you get there. So, you know, you stumble through and give yourself a break.

Yeah. And telling your kids, hey, I'm going to make some mistakes is probably something that your dad didn't do. Right. And that's great for your kids to know that you can say you're sorry or that you can say, I made a mistake. I think there's a generation that couldn't do that because they thought it made them less. It actually makes you more. Yeah.

When you tell your kids that you screwed up, then they look at you a whole lot differently. So, yeah, I think we can either replicate what we saw or we can remember it and go, that's not the way to be. I always say I'm who I am because of my parents and in spite of my parents. Same. I feel the same way, man. And when I make a decision with my kids, it's like, how would I like to have had that handled?

What would have been the best way? Because we tend to just do what we remember or what we saw at home. And at some point, if we're lucky, we go, wait a minute, that was fucked up. You know, that wasn't good. Yeah, we can stop and go. So if that was me, which it was me, my kids are, I think they're better than I, like, they're more well-behaved. Of course.

And they see you more realistically because you're telling them that you're, you're an adult, and you still, you're not perfect. Yeah. And you're going to do things wrong. Yeah. You know, I'm here for you, and there are things you may have to work on. Yeah. It's interesting being also in a rock band.

Do you feel like people want us? to do things wrong. Well, I think that sometimes people glamorize the worst. Yeah. Wow, he's a rebel. He's got a needle in his arm. Yeah. It's like people want to live vicariously by you doing stupid, dangerous things that they

wouldn't do. Oh, he's a real rock star. He's living on the edge. Well, that's kind of like looking up at a building and seeing somebody on the edge. and telling them to jump. I don't think that's something to either emulate or put in a positive light. It's, you know, at some point in your life, you either roll up your sleeves and get it right or work on it or put a gun in your mouth and a needle in your arm, you know, you got to make choices.

But to look at people, to glamorize people at their worst as though it's cool. it's a cartoon yeah i think about it and i think you know music in general has a very high mortality rate and it's it's glorified when artists i think at our core we're like working shit out in front of everyone we're like it's a very therapeutic process of making music and um going on in making art like that but we're actually i think like we want to bring people together to have a good time to feel better about themselves. And that's at the core of like music and rock music and live shows, which. Yeah, but we also, we also want to get people together because it makes us feel better. Yeah. And that's something you work on over time because that's not the solution either.

Yeah. It's like fame should give you the opportunity to work out what needs fixing. Yeah. The reason we get in front of a crowd, well, that's abnormal. To be comfortable in front of a big crowd that's not why do you need that then you can continue being a performer but you kind of get away from that being the drug right there are people in bands there are people who are always on tour because they have no no life right that's their life i reached a point years ago where i went you know who am i when i'm home whom i when i look in the mirror you know that's fucking awesome dude That's nice to hear. At what point in your life did you realize that? You know, I was always struggling, you know, and like a lot of people, I thought success was the answer. Me too. And then you get it and you go,

I still got all these same issues, but they think I'm perfect. And then you just got to, you know, are you going to live a lie? Are you going to let people think you're perfect when you know you're not? or you're going to work on yourself. And that's, you know, that's where therapy or whatever you need to do comes into it. Yeah, some form of like personal growth, personal development, whether it's therapy. I like therapy. I like being able to talk to someone that I respect that helps me work out the core of something and doesn't, I need to talk to someone who doesn't value fame, who doesn't value money,

who values kind of integrity, values in personal success, which, I look at as like personal growth, happiness. I mean, this is very therapeutic for me, but I really like having a place to go and work shit out where the values are right. Well, the whole purpose with therapy is to find somebody who has no vested interest. They're not there with any agenda

except to help you look at yourself and figure things out. I think when people sometimes start therapy, they're looking for answers. well they can help guide you to finding your own answer but nobody can give you an answer. It doesn't work like that. When people start going, well, if I were you, well, you're not me.

You never lived a minute in my shoes. So right then and there, I'm not interested in what you have to say. But somebody who has no interest and can just help you look at your own life or your own decisions, that's if you're willing to put in the work and it's a lot of work. If you just go in there to chit-chat, you're going to get out of it where you put into it. But you can either live with a, like, a toothache and decay in your tooth.

Or you let them dig it out. You know, it doesn't go away on its own. But you do the work, you come out a lot better. That's cool. That's cool to hear. Yeah, it's funny. I was like very excited to talk to you. It's like great place to start because I didn't know where to start because there's so much to talk about. It's not every day you get to sit down with with you.

That's very nice of you to say. It's so legendary and so hard to accomplish what you have in your life. And so if I ever get the chance to sit down with someone that I admire and respect what they dedicated their life to. It's a big deal for me because I love music and I love the dream. You know, I love inspiring people for the, you know, I always think like out there, somewhere out there there, there's a kid that picks up a guitar and wants to write a song and wants to believe that they can, you know, do something that matters. You were that kid. Yeah. I was that kid. Yep. So yeah, it's, it's, I've never stopped being a fan. Me too. I mean. I'm certain people and I'm still in awe of them. That's part of my DNA. There were certain things that

changed my life in terms of music or going to a concert. And that doesn't change. It has nothing to do with what I accomplish. I accomplish things because of that. And I'm still tied to the, to the appreciation and the wonder of some people or bands. Yeah, they're creative for. their talent, their take on it, the way they say it, the way they do it. But then also, it's not often someone creates, you know, a special brand of, of music and art that stands the test of time and lives in the world in a way that is so special and important. And I think Kiss is, no one can argue with that. You know, this is my first time meeting anyone from Kiss. So this is really cool for me. But then you get to meet one of the guys who created this, this force. And

immediately sitting with you, I'm like, oh, I already love, I love to kiss, but now I know. And I, and I, and I've seen enough to, to know that I respect you guys as people, but to actually be in your presence and sit with you, I go, okay, I fucking know exactly why. So that's nice to experience as a fan. I mean, you guys kind of wrote the book on, on creating this brand that stands out. We wrote a chapter. The book is real big. Yeah, the book is big. But it's a good chapter. Yeah. I know you paint too. Yes. Yeah. I paint almost five days a week. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I really think that the more challenges you take on and the more outlets you find to express yourself, the more you find out who you are.

People limit themselves. Oh, I can't do that. Well, other people can tell you you can't. Don't be one of them. You know, be an advocate for yourself. I tell people, if you paint that water bottle and it doesn't look like a water bottle, it doesn't mean it's not good. Yeah.

So give yourself some freedom to find out who you are and do it without fear. There's no way or reason for, Why? How about why not? I'm gonna. And I'm gonna, and like my music, my cabello can be able to continue my rhythm.

For so, potion nine of Sebastian Professional has everything my everything needs. Nutrition Profunda. Protection against the encrespaid. 99% less of rotura

and punas abjuredas under control. New potion 9 of Sebastian Professional, the secret professional of who who don't

see tendences, but of who they're us crean. Yeah, and I think, you know, my brother paints, he's a very good painter. When you achieve art at a high level in music or say let someone, someone's in film or whatever, and then people start to only see you at first hand, they only see you as that thing that they know you as, which is expected and understood. But artists are creative in everything they do. And it's not too far-fetched to think that a really good songwriter would also be a really good

writer or a painter or, you know, creator of other things. And I found that with his art, too. That's why I was interested when I saw that you painted. I was interested in that because he's not doing it for the result. He doesn't actually, you guys strike me as similar. He doesn't care about the result. He's not out here to sell paintings. He cares about making good paintings that he likes and he, he enjoys the process. And I think it's actually art in its purest form of someone just doing something because they love it. Well, it should start like that. I think when you try to second guess the public is where you go wrong. Yeah. Because if you try to please yourself, you'll please somebody else. Right. If you're just trying to make yourself happy, somebody else will be made happy. But if you're

trying to second guess people, it's no different than a relationship. If you're, if you meet a woman or if you, you know, whoever you get involved with and you second guess who they want you to be, at some point, You can find out they go, you know, I don't like that. I thought that's who you wanted me to be. Just be yourself. And as far as creating, create for yourself and let it do what it's going to do. I didn't start painting. I started painting because I was getting divorced and I was miserable.

And a friend of mine said, you should paint. I went, okay. So I started painting for that reason. I've done very, very well in terms of selling art. But it came from me wanting to do it. And at one point it was so successful that I took like a year off. I just went, it's turning into what I didn't want it to be. So if you start with the right intentions and, you know, check yourself once in a while,

it works out pretty well. Yeah, it's funny because that's kind of how music started too, huh? just it's similar. Yeah, you do it because you love it. Yeah. And then maybe you go, hey, this could do well or this could become popular or this could take the place of me having to have a nine to five job, which I don't want to do. Yeah.

And then you just chart your course or you just, did I ever think this would last 50 years? I was hoping for five. When we started out, a good band lasted five, six years. if somebody said you'd be on stage at 70 flying across the arena and all this stuff, I'd say you're out of your mind. But life is what happens while you're making plans. Yeah. But there's got to be something I find there's a certain kind of person that I think I am one of,

and I suspect you are too. When I started, there was never a moment where I didn't want to make it. From the very beginning, I was like, And however long that meant, I was, I just wanted to go. And I find that I approach everything that way, um, in, you know, whether it's this show or this building and this company or anything that I do from just like the band as soon as we start. And I think we've learned how to refine our, our process so that we are, you know, thoughtful. But, but right when we started the band, we were like, we're going like first band practice. And, um, I find like we have that fire in us,

with everything. I think you can want something and then it's a matter of what you're willing to do to make it happen. That's right. Everybody will say, oh, I want to be famous, but how much you're willing to do to make it happen lets you see how important it is. I lived 24-7 wanting to succeed while everybody else was going to college and becoming this and that. That's right. And thinking I was out of my mind, I was like, this is my obsession. This is my calling. And I put every ounce of my energy into doing it. That's how you find out how much something means to is how much you're willing to work to achieve it. That's right. How uncomfortable you're willing to be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of things are doable. It doesn't mean they're easy. And it's humbling in those,

in the early stages of any endeavor when you're trying to basically show or convince people or do whatever you do when you take it out. We forget sometimes when I think about Kiss and I go, oh, I've never really thought about the early days of like what that must have been like before trying to make it, trying to convince people, trying to show,

you know, trying to find you way. We were crazy. Yeah. People laughed at us. I mean, we weren't cool. in New York there was a whole kind of like glitter scene of a lot of bands

we weren't part of it and they thought we were they were all hanging out in clubs and we were rehearsing and then once we started on the road literally we'd go out on stage in a club or somewhere and people would be hitting each other and laughing at us they weren't laughing

at the end of the night when we were playing clubs before we had a deal we were doing strutter black diamond firehouse deuce but yeah I mean it's a lonely road sometimes

yeah but you're on a crusade yeah you're you have a you have a calling don't you love those guys though those guys that would do that those guys that would that would show up at that club and fucking grind it out when no one

when it seemed like no one cared when it seemed like um is this going to work feels like it's, you know, you're pushing against. Faith. Faith in yourself. Our first, I think our first show was at a club called Coventry. And I think there were six people there, including the bartender. And we went out there and we played all those songs that are on Kiss Alive for nobody. But we didn't do it for those five or six people.

We did it for Madison Square Garden. We did it for what we believed we were. It's the dream. Yeah, the dream. But also a dream is only a dream unless you're willing to work for it. Everybody can dream to be this or that or the other thing. But then you have to come up with a map. You have to come up with a plan.

It's not good enough to dream something. You have to decide how you're going to make it real. I think about that. I don't know. I like to imagine you guys back then. I like to imagine what that experience was because I know we did the same thing. We were pushing our fucking, we booked a gig in Annapolis, Maryland at this bar called Armadillos. And it was just like another bar downtown where like the Naval Academy midshipment would go drink and everyone locally.

It's a real bar street on Main Street in Annapolis. But it was where there was a like very vibrant like music scene. And we went up there because there was this band, Jimmy's Chicken Jack. They were like a local band that got big. They had like a big hit on alternative rock. And in the 90s it was like. like radio was everything. Alternative radio was like our world.

And if we could just get on that HFS, you know. And it was important to us. And it was really important in our development as well, just dreaming like that and having that local scene to like aspire to try and find our way. Anyways, we booked a gig at this bar every Sunday. And the deal was, it was like a couple hundred bucks, we had to bring all the equipment.

We had to bring the PA, the drums, everything. And we moved up there, and we rented this like row house. We had no car. And we would, every Sunday, we would push all the gear is about a mile to Main Street from where we lived on skateboards. We would push it back and forth, back and forth all day. When we did things, I used to rent our truck.

Sometimes it was like a mail, it looked like a mail truck. And those are the things that we didn't. Even back then I went, one of these days, I'm going to look back on this as the magic times, the magic, magical times, you know, being on a subway after a show with me and Gene, and we still have a little bit of makeup on our faces. Yeah. And we had to just bring the truck back to Long Island City and drop it off. And, yeah, those times.

No iPhones, no easy route to, you know what I mean? Nothing. We would load our equipment into places in the afternoon. afternoon so people thought we had a road crew. And we had big speaker, big cabinets like that that we bought. They had no speakers in them. But it looked good. So we tell the guy, don't put lights on there because you can see right through it. Yeah. But that's the cool stuff. That's it. That's the cool stuff. Doing what you can with what you got. Yeah. Going putting flyers up. It became a very normal thing for bands to do. But we were a band in New York that was putting flyers up all around the city for shows

that we were doing. We couldn't play most clubs because they wanted top 40 or whatever was on the radio and we weren't doing that. So we would most of the time rent a ballroom in a hotel and do shows. And the Kiss logo that's on one of the posters for the hotel diplomat that I drew with a ruler and it's not perfect. That's the Kiss logo today. That one. That's sick. And I did it on my parents' coffee table on a piece of white paper. And when we got a record deal, they said, do you want us to redraft that? I said, got us this far. And if you look at it to this day, the S's aren't completely lined up and one's a little thicker than the other. So yeah, those are the magic times. Our conversation continues in part two.