Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Paul Stanley of KISS - Part 2

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Paul Stanley of ⁠KISS⁠. Wicked Lester — an early ’70s band that Stanley formed with Gene Simmons — only performed a handful of times and failed to release an album, but planted the seed for a massively recognizable group in rock history. Through KISS, Stanley created his inimitable “Starchild” persona, a character who embodied glitz, romance, and sensuality through decades of elaborate, fire-breathing stage production. In a conversation with Madden, the celebrated rock legend and KISS frontman sits down for a raw, introspective conversation about legacy, fatherhood, personal growth, and the grind behind building one of the most iconic bands of all time. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden and this is artist friendly. This is part two of my conversation with the lead singer, frontman, and co-founder of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inducted band Kiss. Paul Stanley, here you go. I think when you're young, you don't realize, as a 46-year-old, I look back on those kids and I go, fuck yeah, boys. that's what I respect when I see someone working like that.

But as a young guy, you're embarrassed or you're, people don't take you seriously. But if you have a band, that's so cool because you're all in it together. That's right. It's you guys against the world. And when you need reassurance, you got your brothers. You got whoever is there with you. So that's all magic. bands that are given too much too soon burn out too soon.

They do. It's how much you put into it that's going to decide how long it lasts. And if you don't know why you succeeded, you're like a dinosaur. You're going to die. If you put the work in, you understand what it is that made you, and you can sustain it. Yeah, you can navigate things. There are parts of a career that are just wacky, you know, and there's things you go through career and it's this uh it's this winding road of of it's all kinds of things ups downs great times

personal hardships all those real life work life all in this mixed bag and if you don't have the grit and the experience of those early like those early stages of working really hard and having to persevere over time i do think it gives you the resilience to go through this life which is, you know. Yeah, and hopefully you learn much more from the bad times and you learn much more from the mistakes. Success, you go, yeah, I was right. But when things are shaky,

that's where you build up experience for the next time. That's right. And it can't all be peaks. It can't all be mountain tops. There has got to be some valleys in there. That's just the nature. That's also when you learn. how much you love what you do.

Right. Is when things go south. Look, there were times in the band where we did a tour, I think, in 82, where we would show up at these arenas, I think around creatures around that time. And the parking lot in the arena would look like they just left the lights on because there were no cars there, you know? And you go in and there's a big echo with this band that's on stage opening for you,

and you go out and there's nobody there. Well, you either call it quits, or you go out there and kick as much ass as you can. So those people go home and tell other people how good you were. You know, you don't cheat the people who showed up because of the ones who didn't. But you learn all that stuff as you go along. How much does it mean to you?

How much do you love what you're doing? And that's what you've, fight for. A lot of people wouldn't, though. A lot of people would quit. I've seen it. You know, they do measure the value of their music or their brand or their art or whatever they're doing or what they set out to do with is the room full or not. And some artists, it breaks them. I wouldn't. You know what? I have had that experience too. I think it was like 2011 or 12. We played in, I'll never forget it. We played in like Austin, Texas. Two years before that, we were selling out arenas and we were over touring.

That's what we were doing. No one was telling us, like, don't go back to that market two times in one year. We had been on the road for 12 years. Everyone involved was making lots of money and we were just going hard. And I remember we showed up in Austin to like a half full venue and it like really checked our egos. And it wasn't the only room on that tour that was how full. But I remember this one in particular because it was a rough night.

and my brother said well who the fuck are we where are we playing because of the venue size or the people or are we playing because we fucking love this shit and let's figure out what happened later but let's go and do this thing and we all went and did it and it was a real moment where I was like yeah you know what fuck it like we started playing for that gig pushing our gear many gigs like that pushing our gear on skateboards playing for 10 people at a bar and here we are you know, many years later, and having to really have moments where you go, you have to ask yourself, who are we? And why are we doing this? It turns out to be one of the best moments of our career. Yeah, it's what we would call like an epiphany. You know, you suddenly realize something,

the value of what you're doing for you. I remember around that same time, some reporter was doing an interview with me. And look, we're a band that's loved and hated. So people certainly in the press were getting, they were enjoying seeing our decline. And this reporter said to me, so how does it feel to be like on the Titanic? And I thought to myself,

nobody is going to decide when this is over but me. And I will fight anything I need to and I will do anything I have to, to prove that person has no say in what I do. I do this because I love what I'm doing and I will not only survive, but I'll come back and that's what we did. That's what we did because it meant that much to me.

I also think that we're culturally like, we love to see giants fall just to hear the sound of them falling or to watch it. Like I think there's a real like cultural, like a pop interest that people have in watching like train wrecks, watching people fail. I think it's a weird, sick, twisted thing when people go here. We want to see it. Well, there's an old saying that maybe as you experience more, you realize how true it is.

Misery loves company. Yeah, that's true. And it's really a thing where people, it's not hard to find people who want you. to fail. Yeah, because they're miserable. Surround yourself with people who tell you not what you can't do, but what you can do. If somebody's telling you something's impossible, chances are they failed. I'm here to tell everybody, yeah, you can, but it's going to take a lot of work. It's a lifelong dedication. Totally. No matter what you want to do. That's right. If something matters to you, you're going to prove how much it matters by how much you're willing to work. Yeah. Well, sitting with you

makes me really happy that you succeeded. Me too. Because the world needs to hear that. It's possible. And we live in a time where there are a lot of instant gratification. People can go online, make something and get a lot of attention. But to make and build something that will last forever, which is what I think you've done. So I'm saying it. To do that is a lifelong dedication to a brand and to an art form and to a craft. To do it with integrity, to do it so that it lasts forever. There's something that goes into that. Of course, people could say there's a little bit of luck, whatever.

I would say that you work hard and you show up and the harder you work, the luck you get. And so you're taking opportunities out. Maybe they're there, but the first guy through the door or the first guy that notices it. But for what you've done and what Kiss has done, I stand back as someone who wanted to achieve that as well as a kid, and I've been able to go on my own ride that I feel very proud of.

You see the dream and you go, that guy did it. I think I can do it too. That's the most important thing in rock music and in music period for me is that somewhere out there, there's a kid with a guitar, and he sees what you've done, and it allows him to shape a dream. Totally. And at our best, we're out there telling people, yeah, you can.

Yeah. And again, it always goes back to it's not necessarily easy. Yeah. And if you really, I think passion is the key to so much. Yeah. Integrity, everybody defines integrity differently. Yeah. Somebody thinks I'm a whore, you know, and, you know, but that doesn't matter.

I have a certain standard. So it becomes, again, about how you see yourself. I have standards and I have certain requirements and ethics and that's for me personally. But just in terms of success, success will only come, long-term success will only come from work. Yep. And knowing why you succeeded. If you're the winner of a talent TV show, that's not what's going to make you. What's going to make you is winding up playing.

a bar afterwards and finding out, did I do this just to win that talent show? Or am I doing it because I love it? Yeah, and learning how to actually do it. We can fake it till we make it only so far, but at some point when you get your hands dirty and you get into the craft of doing what you do, whether it's playing music, writing songs, putting together shows, yeah, I think there's something important in the work that teaches us. But what you guys have done, is to me very, very few and far between, obviously, bands that create not only an iconic catalog of music. Great music is one, you have to have great music,

but then to create larger than life, the personification of like rock and roll and the rock and roll dream and what, you know, people can do. To me, it's just stood the test of time. It's one of the coolest things. and I'm sure you've had your own experience inside of it when you say, yeah, we weren't cool then, or we had our ups or downs where people were rooting for us, reading against us, press loved us, press hated us. That's the experience of being in it. But from the outside, as a music fan,

and then as a fan of culture and a fan of streetwear or a fan of brand, when you see a good brand and you go, fuck, that's tight, that's to me is what kisses. And my brother, my older brother, We're super close to me and my brothers. We do everything together. He has all this kiss stuff. We have always agreed that it's like one of the best brands. We could see it. It's like these guys.

They started this and they made this. And you had to dream it big before it was big. That's what I love is when someone had, it's like Disney. It's like Walt Disney had the dream. And then he built the dream. And it's just you can't fuck with that. It's so good. That's how I see.

I see Kiss like these guys, they were from New York. They just started this band. And they started dressing like this. And they were like, we're going to do it, whether it was at the time you did it. And now you have. And so did you. Yeah. It's that team. It's those guys that you, the sum is greater than its parts. Yeah, you're in the van. Yeah. And you did it. It's easy to look at somebody who attained something huge and then go, yeah, but, you know, you did this.

Well, we all do it on whatever level we do it. And it's a matter of how. we've used success. Yeah. And then at the end of the day, it's do I like who I am and what I did? And do I like the person I am? And that's it. Sitting with you and hearing you say that makes me love it even more. I always wonder who the person is behind it.

And I always wonder would I believe in that person if I met them and sat down with them or ran into them. And I like to believe that you can have that and you can be a real person and you can live your real life and you can have the human experience, right? And that's what I'm trying to have is. But you are. You're sympathetic and you're empathetic to your kids to your wife, things that everybody isn't. Yeah. And success and what you've acquired has given you that opportunity. But some people throw that away. There are guys in bands who are clueless. Yeah. I mean, they can barely tie their shoe in terms of life.

Yeah. It's true. It's true. It's hard to watch sometimes. Yeah. And then there's other people who sees the opportunity, not just for success in a band, but success in life. Yeah, that's it. Which is a whole different thing.

You kind of want to shake him and go, oh, this shit only matters if this matters. Yeah, but that it doesn't work. It's about who you are. Yeah. It's about who you are. It's like sometimes there are people who don't have kids. And you go, oh, you don't know what you're missing. No, actually, that's who they are.

That's who they are. And to think that you can project on them what you love or what's gratifying for you, it doesn't work like that. Yeah, I always see that too. I agree with you. Like if I see someone that doesn't have kids because there's those people like, I'm never having kids. I respect it.

I needed to have kids. My kids are amazing. but the experience has been amazing. But when I see someone who doesn't need it, and they're like, nah, that's not me. I respect it. Everybody is an individual,

and you either, if you missed the boat, you weren't meant to be on the boat. Yeah. And having kids, I think in the perfect sense, is healing. Yeah.

Because it heals you by allowing you to be the person for your children that may have been lacking for you. Yeah. So you get to have them experience what you didn't. Yeah. Let's talk about the Vegas experience. Can you tell me about it? Sure. Kiss for 12 years or so has done kiss cruises, which are fantastic. And people from 33 countries

come and we get on a ship and it's us doing Q&As and playing. We bring in different producers or people who we've worked with. We have competitions and all kinds of other bands. And on the Kiss Cruise, do you play a show on the Kiss Cruise? Oh, yeah. So there's one show, two shows, and then a bunch of experiences. Yeah, on the Kiss Cruise, we do that. And what we're doing in Vegas, because we're not touring,

because the band isn't as it was, doesn't mean we've forgotten our fans. Our fans made us who we are and continued. to keep us where we are. So at this point, the idea was, well, we couldn't get a ship. Well, we'll do a kiss cruise in Vegas. We're doing a kiss cruise without a ship. So we've got the Virgin Hotel.

We're going to play. We haven't played since Madison Square Garden. We're going to play. Other bands are going to play. We'll do Q&As. We'll have some producers who have been. a part of us doing Q&As. There's going to be competitions.

There's going to be everything that people have expected on the Kiss Cruise. Gene and I felt a little at the beginning of this idea that we weren't enough of a part of it and it seemed to be going away from the spirit of what we did. So we jumped in and said, no, no, this needs to touch all those emotional touchstones that everybody has come to love in the kiss cruises. And the fact that we don't have a ship this year and it wasn't available,

doesn't mean we can't have the same kind of time. I'm gonna'amena. And, like my music, my hair changed with me. And it has to be able to continue my rhythm. For so, Potion Nine of Sebastian Professional has everything my hair needs. Nutrition Profunda, protection contraption against the encrespaid.

99% less of rotura and punas abirtas under control. New Potion Nine of Sebastian Professional. professional, of who not are the people not are the people who are it actually

become a, I could see it like becoming a yearly thing because Vegas seems like Vegas is back for sure the last few years it's really just like

it had a moment where it felt like Vegas I don't know and then the last few years it feels like Vegas is fully back you want to go to Vegas like I always

gauging on what I want to do and I remember like there was a few years like five year run COVID had something to do with it, but like where I was like, I don't fuck with Vegas right now. And then suddenly in the last few years,

I'm like, oh, I fuck with Vegas hard now. I want to go back to Vegas. Yes, it's not Kiss Storms Vegas. Yeah. It's Kiss Cruise landlocked in Vegas. Yeah. So it's yeah, it's, fuck yeah.

It's the hotel. You know, it's everything everybody is expected in the cruises. And we've sold out these cruises for, I think 11 years. So Gene and I just got involved and rolled up our sleeves because nobody can do us better than we can. Yeah. And we felt very much that certain things were missing.

And that's what we've kind of rechristened this experience. And when is it? It's November 14th, 15th, and 16th. Awesome. And it's going to be awesome. And we're going to play all the songs that we normally play. and it's, but I'll be more like this than I am, you know, the kiss gear is hung up and that will stay in the bat cave. Yeah, that's kind of cool though.

Yeah, I, look, I've always thought that you can get the biggest production and put on a big show and a band still sucks, you know? Yeah. A band that's no good is still no good with all the trappings. And you could take a car, an old beat up. car without an engine and painted any color you want. It may look beautiful, but it ain't going anywhere. Yeah. So I've always thought that the band at its core has always been a kick-ass band. I grew up going to the, I saw Hendricks twice in New York. Was that like? Unbelievable. It was, it was life-changing. And that was at a college and at the Fillmore East.

And I saw Zeppelin. I saw The Who, all the. these bands in 69, Derek and the Domino's Humble Pie, you name them. I saw all these bands and that's what I wanted to be. Yeah, we dressed it up, but it comes down to people committed to the music, people on stage preaching what they believe. I like both. I like, I love the big show, the, all the, all, but I like this too. I think it's cool that you can do both. Yeah, I don't know. It's a cool experience for fans, I think. But also, like, yeah, I just think it's, it's cool, it's smart, it's interesting, it's a story, you know, and it's...

Again, it's, why not? It's real. Why? Why not? Yeah. It's arguably the most dedicated fans and the fans that everybody kind of compares themselves to, it's the Kiss Army. Yep.

I mean, the Kiss Army. One of the first fandoms ever, dude. Yeah, Kiss Army started as a volunteer army in Terre Haute, Indiana. the local fans weren't getting kiss on the radio in like 74, 75. So they called the radio station and said, if you don't play Kiss by this time, we're going to surround the building. And they did.

And that was the start. And they called themselves the Kiss Army. So that's what it started from. It was grassroots volunteer army. And built a model for so many people to follow in such a good way, It's such a positive thing to show. I don't know. I would argue that Kiss has a lot of those,

those things you guys built as models of how to succeed with your fans first, right? That's what we did as a band. We had the fans first. And that's what every, I think, great band has now is this idea that, of course, but the model that you guys built with Kiss Army, also you could argue that a lot of rock bands and pop artists and everything else yeah i don't know if i i would argue that kiss broke ground for artists to do a lot of things certain ways and took our lumps for it yeah band clubs were thought of as uncool because in the early 60s or in the 50s you had these

interchangeable teen idols branky avalon fabi and bobby rydell and bobby ridell and you would have these fan clubs. And they ran their course. And it was, it didn't have any real passion in it. It was, they called a teeny bopper. But we wanted something that connected us to the fans.

And when we first started out doing T-shirts or belt buckles, people snickered. That's so uncool. But there's nothing uncool about giving your fans what they want. Yeah, they want to wear your shit and, you know, represent. So, hey, you know, every band rightfully so has merch now but the idea from us besides the money is yeah these people want to

represent these people want to wear the colors and that was thought of as uncool and then other bands see it and they go hey this this is a pretty good idea this is a pretty good idea and god bless them all but the kiss army that's that's where it started but you guys had to go through it And like you said, you took your lumps for it. But on the other side of it, I think you could probably sit here. And if we don't have all day, but if we really wanted to connect kiss across to all these things, whether directly or indirectly affected, influenced, carved out, I think if there isn't a documentary on it, there's got to be at some point because I think it's really important to,

I don't think you think about it while you're doing it. You're being honest, you're being the kid who's getting after it with good ideas. The kids, you know, when I say artists are smart, they're creative, they figure out creative solutions to problems. But when you're going through it, you're just experiencing it. But now you could sit and if we got a room full of exorverts to get in and start dissecting it apart and putting all the connections. Well, the thing that I love about us and about the influence we've had is,

It's not copycat. It's inspiring people to be who they are. Yeah. I could give you a list of bands and artists who sound nothing like us, but it inspired them. And that's what we're here to do. What we're doing, if it's credible, we'll have somebody else go, I want to do that.

Or I'd like to be like that person. Look, the bands that I saw were, what inspired me. And that never changes. So that's what I really think it's about is being true to yourself. And hopefully people aren't out there just being a clone of you. They're finding who they are, just like we found who we were. It's nice to reflect on, though, because I think it's important.

And it's great to say with you. Is there anything else you want people to know about Vegas or anything else? No, I'm just nice to sit down with you and get to know you and shoot the shit for a while. It's fucking awesome, man. Thanks for coming. My pleasure. This was awesome, dude. For me too.

Yeah, thanks. I bet you. Thank you for listening to Artist Friendly. We really appreciate it. If you like the show, you can also follow us on Spotify. You can follow us on Instagram at Artists. And you can watch us on YouTube and Veeps. Leave comments.

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