Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Paul Walter Hauser

Episode Date: October 14, 2026

On this week’s episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden sits down with Paul Walter Hauser.A Michigan native, Hauser spent years waiting tables and working the door at a Burbank comedy club before a two-episode guest spot on the DirecTV series Kingdom turned into a 24-episode run in 2014. From there he became one of Hollywood’s most in-demand character actors, with standout turns in I, Tonya, BlacKkKlansman, and Cruella, plus a breakout performance as the title character in 2019’s Richard Jewell. In 2022 he starred as suspected serial killer Larry Hall in Apple TV’s Black Bird, a role that won him a Golden Globe, a Critics’ Choice Award, and an Emmy. These days he’s playing Mole Man in Fantastic Four: First Steps, appearing in the new Resident Evil, and joining the cast of Netflix’s live-action Scooby-Doo series. He also hosts the satirical web series The Boy Talk Talk Show and has built a second career as a pro wrestler, with more than 30 matches since his 2023 debut and a spot on the Major League Wrestling roster.Paul gets honest about the fears that have driven so many of his career choices, the long journey of learning to trust his gut and say "no" and why being his realest self matters more to him than chasing the next big role. (0:00) – Brunch, Blood, and Standing Firm(8:22) – Faith Without the Label(10:07) – Fear Behind Every Career Decision(10:55) – When a Marvel Role Didn't Go as Planned(23:09) – Wrestling Hurts Less Than Rejection(32:20) – A Message He Wasn't Expecting(35:28) – Passing on a Role Paid Off(38:26) – Chris Farley Biopic in Development(52:06) – Two Episodes Became 24(1:05:26) – A Second Chance at His Own Love Story Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The thing is, I want to buy you brunch. I want to pick up the bill when you're not looking. I want to hug you and cry with you. I want to know you're in most desires. I want to know how I can help you before you ask me for help. I love you. But by the same token, I am the same guy who is ready to wear blood on his clothing and lose his job if it means I was on the right side of moral history.

And that is violently important to me. I don't want to have bad. Where do you live now? I live in Atlanta, and I got a five-year-old, a three-year-old and a one-year-old. You got three? Three. Wow. I've had sex at least three times.

Three times, and it worked. Contrary to public opinion, I've made love more than once. Unassisted. No, yeah, I don't even know what that means. But it's crazy because, like, more kids you have, things get more expensive. Then you want to give your kids the best. You don't want to give them, you know. The worst.

We're going to go buy our produce at the dollar tree. It's like suddenly everything is the best of the best. And it's like. Only the best for you three. You're getting food for less. This one talks back where you're getting food for less. You two get whole foods. Also,

wife gets here one. Also what I learned if I can give you any, please compliment. Oh, I thought you meant advice. You said compliment and I said please. I would say it's not advice. It's more of. like a highlighting something that I think you're doing right. Okay. You move somewhere where family can be first. You live in this town where you're organizing your day and your life around what your

family needs. And then if you got to go work, it's like you learn how to make decisions that, like, you have to talk to your family. You're going to go, well, I might have to go leave for like a month or two to go do this. Yep. And then everyone, you and your wife are probably going like, okay, how's this going to work? And you come to the decision like, hey, maybe everyone's coming or maybe everyone's staying and I'm going back and forth, but either way, everything is acclimated towards the family unit. Yeah. And then what is best?

The priority gets flipped right side up where I found living in the city in L.A. for many years when my kids were small, I was choosing work over them lots. Yeah. I was that way with close friends, family. It was so easy to say that I'm doing it in the name of their well-being or the collective. but really it's like if you scratch long enough, you know that you're revealing you're just a workaholic. Yeah.

And maybe it's more ego than it is necessary for survival or whatever you're saying. Or like maybe it's fear or maybe it's like whatever it is. It's something else other than family, which what I found is like moving and then reorganizing my nature of moving out, even just an hour outside of L.A., It flipped everything the right way where like now, if it's really important, I got to go. You know, we organize like me and my, me and my wife will talk and we'll be like, and we'll come to a decision or whatever.

And then like I go do the work thing, but it's always in relationship to the family, not anything else. Not how does he feel or healthy. This is going to be so good for your career. If you could just go in this room and be here for an hour. You know, maybe you'll strike up a deal. It's also thinking like PR over thinking like an artist. Yeah. You know, sometimes we put a suit brain in our artist skulls. Yeah.

And it can behoove you on occasion, but I would say 80% of the time, it's really a bunch of nonsense. Yeah. Now, I'm grateful for PR. My PR team is awesome. I love, I like hanging out with them and working with them. Yeah. But when we come from that mindset, I don't think it's the healthiest output. But it was a nice moment for me to, like, do what you're saying, which is pick and choose and, like, say it's better for my health and my family. preserve your sanity and your family's sanity. And also, I think you can look at things and go like, actually, you know what, they're going to be fine. And tell them, I love them. I'll tell them I love them.

And then I think also there's a way where you can move through the world and say no to lots of stuff in a nice way where people aren't, they don't feel offended because you're not, it's not personal. You're just like, hey, my kids are at home and I got to be home right now. Can we talk about that with also artistic endeavors? Yeah. Saying no. I want to get your perspective on that because for me, I'm learning that the more I just tell the truth very blanketly

and share something intimate about the creative process or my real life, the more people are understanding and they feel seen even in a pass or rejection. Yeah. Because I'm not blowing them off or ghosting or saying, oh, I don't know if I ever, did I ever get that email? it's like I'm being really up front about this thing doesn't fulfill X amount of things I might need

but know that you have my email or my number type thing as a businessman musician I don't know what that's like in your case but so now I'm going into my like therapist slash manager brain because I'm into the same thing I'm into it okay because I work with a lot of bands and I try to help them as well maybe avoid what I did in my 30 years of my career

the first 10 to 15 I'd say we're not a good time not fully not wholly not a good time but Music was fun. But there were aspects that were taxing. Yes. Yeah. And one of that was my fear of disappointing people.

People pleasing. Yes. So I had a very people pleasing disposition because, and I'll be very honest, I had a very low self-esteem. And I wanted everyone to like me because I wanted to make friends. Later on through like working on myself, going to therapy, right? I'd say I have a pretty healthy relationship with myself. It's good, which then, of course, bleeds out to your relationships.

with other people. Right. And then you can actually be honest with them. You can say, hey, dude, hey, listen, love you. Or the timing's bad. I actually like this, but like, this is a season of life where it doesn't make sense. A bunch of reasons. Could be timing. Could be, you know, I'm not there. I just, I can't, I don't know why. I love, I love what you're doing. I appreciate you asking. But for some, for whatever reason, I just, I can't get there. I don't know what it is. maybe that'll change. Maybe I miss the boat with this, whatever, but I hope you understand, like, for whatever reason, I can't see it for me right now. And then how they feel about themselves usually reveals itself as well. Sure. And how they respond. How they respond. Yeah.

Like, well, fuck you then, man. Like, you're missing the greatest opportunity of your life. And you're like, I'm okay with that. Yeah. I hope you're right for your sake. I do. I'm glad we've closed the book on this. So that's the thing that I learn how to over the years of working on myself and I think also being married and having kids is a great teacher. Yeah, for everything. For everything. And I realize like anyone that makes me feel so upset or hurt, I have to check in with myself. It's not them. Yeah. Like what's going on in here that that person. So funny you say that. I had a similar revelation of like, have I committed the sin of offense? is it proper for me to be offended about something?

Because it's not always warranted, or it just doesn't matter and I bloviated it and made it something it doesn't need to be. And do you deserve to carry the weight of offending everyone? Like, are you really going to carry that weight around with you that someone asking you to do their movie and you not quite being ready for it

or it's not the right time? Or maybe you just didn't get it. Like maybe you read the script and you were like, I don't see me in this. Oh, and I was even, talking about the other side of the table flipping it where like I'm the dude emailing you the sin of offense to like get a pass from somebody like that that too I'm like having to learn as much as I want this that and the other if they don't choose you you're really getting mad at

fate more than anything you might see the vessel of the casting director the financier whoever's in front of you that you deem as a gatekeeper in that moment but the but the truth is you're actually warring against fate. Yes, and you're actually... Because it's not yours. And you're deifying anything other than God. Straight up. Do you know what I mean?

So I know you're religious. Yeah, I'm a Jesus guy. I don't even use the C word Christian because it has all these connotations. You're a Jesus guy. People are like, you're a Christian. I'm like, well, I don't... I'm not afraid of gay people and I don't like Donald Trump. So maybe I just use the J word.

You don't fit in with some Christians. Yeah, yeah, quite a few. Yeah. But I would say I know that about you. so if I know that you believe in Jesus, right? And so if that's the only God, right, that in your belief system, you could say that you can feel that, hold that, you feel it in your like, deepest part of you.

Thankfully, it's real and I'm not choreographing. Right. So nothing else is the answer. Yeah. So if- Which I forget. Right. But thank God I'm trying to go back to that in those moments.

But we all forget it. But we have to remember, like, because you're an artist. I'm an artist. Like, we both are probably guilty of in any given moment we get hung up on one idea because we're like, we have the ability to hyper focus on things that might be harder for other people to focus on. Sure. Right?

So, like, you could be focused on like a song or a script or a movie or any one creative endeavor you're doing because you do a bunch of different ones. Again, you're an artist. So you might be hyper focused on that. In the moment, this person feels like the right. the answer. Yeah. Right. And then so you get attached to it. And because you're a person who had to, again, like, this is probably like, I'm not doing a good job of simplifying it, but like, I think because like what it takes to be successful in your field, the amount of time,

the amount of rejection, the amount of. A lot of unseen work hours. A lot of unseen homework being done. The tries, the amount of times you had to try. What I'm learning through, I just started with a life coach, which is like the kind of thing I never thought I'd do, but I love it. I never thought I'd be sober. I never thought I'd lose weight. Never thought I'd marry someone amazing. Look at you. Yeah.

God's dope. Yeah. I'm doing okay. But one thing I'm realizing through the life coach work I'm doing is this guy is teaching me how to come from a place of vision rather than other places. And what are those other places? Well, what I've discovered just for talking to this dude and doing light homework he gives me is like, oh, fear is.

a massive majority sort of motivated from where I come from and make all my decisions. Fear is motivating a lot of decisions. And sometimes it's like, like when I got offered Fantastic Four, it was like I was super stoked to play Moleman and to be a part of that Marvel family or whatever. And I knew smart people were making the movie. So I'm like, no matter how it does, I think it'll actually be a really good movie because it's got Matt Jackman and these cool actors and creators. but one of my fears came true, which is like I really wanted to tear it up as a villain and I kind of became more of like a comedic sidekick

and half my scenes were cut, et cetera. And it was like a thing of like, oh. And now if I really look at it from a healthy perspective, it's like you were in service to a good movie. Yeah. But fear also tells you to take the role no matter what because you may never get offered a superhero villain again. Robin Williams famously wanted to be the riddler

and I think his or the Joker or the Riddler and when Nicholson and Jim Carrey cornered that market in that six-year span, it was like, oh. Like it was a gut punch, even though he had a dope life and was killing it. And I think I have a fearful mindset sometimes where I'll sign on to something or I'll jump into an opportunity

because I'm imagining this is the last plate of food that the kitchen staff is willing to make. That's it. And it's like, dude, that's not reflective of the truth. It's a fear. It's a poverty mindset. Poverty mindset. And now that I'm trying to come from a place of vision, when I have boundaries and expectations

and I dictate them and communicate them to other creatives and business people, if something doesn't meet the requirement, I say, I can't do it. And it's not because I don't want to. It's because I'm doing some form of quality control for myself and the project. That's right. And that, whatever that is, the combination of advocating for multiple people involved in a project and doing quality control, that's why I am as a project. That's why I am as a producer in any capacity. And I'm like, that's a gifting I didn't know I had, but I had to grow into it. Right. I had to figure it out. I'm still figuring it out. Some of the past we need to organize, right? We need to organize how we see it, how we think of it, and where it lives. Say more.

Some of the past. What's an example of that? When you started acting, when did you start acting? I got my first role 17 years ago this month. Okay. Yeah. Wow. And did you want to or did you, did you Yeah, I really wanted. Okay, so you were trying. I was a try hard big time. Okay. And then very immersive. The way we're trained in the arts sometimes is like, if we could just get that role,

and then it'll break us out into our dream, right? My poor manager has to hear this conversation. Where did you get discovered? You know what I mean? Like it's like some fantasy idea that a guy in a top hat came in and said, You ain't, make you a star. And you're like, well, it's not so much. like that. It's like you try and try and then you got this little role here and then you got that

and then you did this and then somewhere along there you started also developing and you started getting your own style and you got better and more comfortable and then there was a role you could probably say like that role I would say or that song I released I would say put me into the ethos of like people's awareness and then once I got that role and I did a good job I got another another another movie and another movie and it led to now was it that role or was it the 10 years of work before that role that mattered the most

I think they all mattered and it all kind of but they do share that pie graph is the point right because a lot of people would like to say this one thing was the trampoline that made me go nine feet and it's like well you're giving a lot of credit to the trampoline exactly and then you well because no one wants to know the truth like even now

I'd say if you said to me like, hey, you got to go back and do it all again. I would say no. I did it once because I didn't know what I was doing. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah. And I can do this now, but I already did all that. I don't want to do it again. It was hard. And I don't want to tell anyone coming in. I don't want to tell some 18 year old kid who's about to get their first, you know, opportunity how hard it is and how long it's going to take and all the nuances of what a career means. and it's just one day at a time. You've got to stack together and then, you know, it's decades of work.

Yeah. And you'll never be satisfied because you'll always be on to your next artistic expression of yourself. Yeah, you're looking at a different mountain. Yeah. Which is a good thing. But I think that like you, where we started was you kind of working out like how you feel about passing or saying no and stuff and then asking for stuff.

I would encourage you to one, say this. I would say this. You're a serious guy you've accomplished a lot. Anyone getting an email from you is a compliment. And you inviting anyone to participate in anything you're doing is a compliment and an opportunity. And if they say yes, great, because you were right, your vision for them was right. If they say no, fine, you'll find the right answer. They have to see it too.

It's great to be great. Yeah. And then for anyone you pass on, I would assume they'll understand. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, giving yourself grace and having to come from that place rather than burdening yourself with thinking about all the time. And if they don't ever want to see you again, fine.

You're saving yourself. Whatever that headache is. Right. Whatever that mess is of, you know. Thank you, man. There have been times where I've gotten passed on something and then I assume I know why. and then years later, months or years later, you find out the backstory of what was going on in that movie or that show.

And it's like, you don't know what you don't know. You know, the same way your knowledge is finite, your ignorance is infinite. Yeah. So it's like, it's true. And it's like, if you can have the humility to come from that place and acknowledge that, then it kind of takes away the inclination to be offended.

But it took me a while to get there. It took me a while. It takes it. I think I'm getting, I think I'm better at it now than I've ever been. But yeah, it's tricky because we're also emotional. Yeah. Just people are humans can be emotional.

And it's like something that you have vision for. If it doesn't come together, you're like, man, I thought, I really thought I was 2020 on that vision. Yeah. It's like, you don't, my come. Dude, there have been, let me give a crazy example. There have been multiple movie ideas I've had that I've jotted down in some notebook somewhere or on a phone. and six months later that exact movie gets made. Yeah.

And I'm like, it's not that somebody stole it. It's parallel thinking and somebody beat you to it. And you get to let that go now. Yeah. But it's just interesting where it's like, the death of something doesn't really need to always be mourned, is the point too.

Just because something died doesn't mean you got to sit chiva. For me, I think you're explaining like what being tapped in feels like because when you're aware, when an idea comes to your kind of like, and then a movie, you see, oh, a movie's being made six months later, it means you were tapped in to the collective need at the time. I believe in that. I believe in that big time.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's almost can be its own comfort too. Yeah. In that moment. I think I've been having, ever since I started with his life coach, I've been having really weird, healthy moments of synchronicity, which I had more when I was younger.

When I first moved to L.A., I had crazy synchronicity that I interpret as like God's way of saying like, hang on man, you're right where you're supposed to be. You're in the right place. You're right where you're supposed at the right time. And I didn't have it for a long time and wondered like what is that that it came and went. Was I just dumb and young? And I think the real answer is that you busy yourself with your own worries and concern rather than taking part in the magic of the moment. Yeah. And surrendering. Yeah. And when you surrender, I think when you come at it from the childlike awe and being okay with

the inconclusive parts of your work, you start to recognize the synchronicity and the things that are kind of like sort of what my mom calls God winks. Yeah. It's like. I call him that too. Yeah. Oh, yeah. God's winking at you.

Yeah. That's what we refer to it as. Yeah. And it feels like that. It's very helpful for me where it kind of calms me down where I would normally be offended or worried. What worries you? the most. Oh, man. In life, when it comes to, I wouldn't say, listen, of course, we're always

going to worry about our kids. We're always going to worry about our family. And I'm always personally going to worry about, like, am I doing a good job? That's like the big worry I always have. Like, am I doing a good job with these kids? Yeah, that's normal. Do I figure this out? Like, I think it's okay, but I want to do the best possible job. But then there's life. Like, what in your, I would say, what you do for a living and what you do to find your purpose, what makes you happy, it kind of all blends together, right? Yeah, yeah. Because we're creative.

We're lucky like that. So like what worries you the most? The things I worry about the most would be selfishly am I reaching the potential I know I'm capable of. Uh-huh. But that potential still needs to be invited and. tapped into by somebody else. I can't just make my whole movie on my own. Yep.

The way a painter can technically get on easel and be like, now it exists. Yep. So I would say not reaching the potential of what I know I'm capable of. That scares you. That scares me a lot. And it's mostly just the fun of doing that work, the belief in oneself,

and then some part of ego, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah. I think I'm a little, I worry about my comfortability with calling out corporate greed and immorality in the higher offices of the land. Yeah, yeah. You feel like maybe you're too comfortable doing that? Yeah, I think part of me is like a little kid who just keeps touching the stove.

Like, is it ever going to burn me? And Cat Williams talked about that. You know, he spent a lot of time calling some folks out and I won't get into it, but it was very much a thing of he got really comfortable doing it. And then he said he got stung by a hornet's nest too many times. And he's like, okay, now I can back off. As life seems to be more peaceable because of it. But I think there's a weird, rebellious spirit.

I have a little bit of a punk rock thing of wanting to throw my words and fists around a little bit. And I worry sometimes that I, am I coming from a good, I'm coming from a good place partially, but I don't know if it's fully. I think part of me wants to fight. So I'll be honest with you, because I know your socials and I follow you. And I don't do that. Sure. It doesn't bother me when you do. Like I'm being honest.

Like, I feel like you're being honest. I think I'm just outraged and trying to say, does anybody else see this? Right, but I think you're being honest. Yeah. And if you weren't being honest, it wouldn't be as acceptable. Like, I don't know why. If I was trying to gain favor, like, signaling. Like fans or like really like, what is it, like engagement farming and like, grifting.

It's like grabbing people that you know will agree with you. And that's not what you're doing. You're actually like speaking your mind. I'm journaling in public, which is dicey, but holistic for me too. It's healthy for me in a weird way. Your PR people may hate me saying this, but I think the more you can be yourself is always the best. I think I'm like that with, you know, I've written songs for a couple bands. I've put out a hip-hop EP.

Yeah. I wrestle. Yeah. I'm not producing movies. I'm acting in and stuff. It's definitely a thing of I'm following my love and my passion with that. And I'm like that's the show we did this web show. It's called The Boy Talk Talk Show.

It's the kind of thing where I think a lot of people like I had a wellness check from like David O'Yallowo actor, buddy mine, a couple of people who are like, saw your wrestling. Are you good? Yeah. You're having a midlife crisis? The wrestling scares me. Yeah, I know. It scares a lot of people.

But I really love it and I think I know what I'm capable of. And I've suffered. I broke a bone in my hand. I've broken four or five ribs. I know what it feels like now to pay the price of doing it. And I'll tell you what, no broken rib hurts near as much as a rejection of being an actor. Wow.

Nowhere near. Wrestling is easier. Wrestling is so, because the pain of wrestling. And by the way, I'm not doing it five days a week like some guys and gals. Right. The John Csians in the world kind of,

you know, they walk like they have scoliosis because they did it for so long, so hard. I'm interspersing, so I got to be fair with that. But I would say, say that the things I'm doing are very much in line with me trying to be the realest version myself.

And I can see. I can feel that. And give some sort of answer where I remember we're on the red carpet for Fantastic Four and I felt bad later about it. I genuinely do. But I think Pedro Pascal was talking to, Pedro Pascal was talking to like, Good Morning America. Yeah.

Or something. And on the red carpet. And I leaned in and I go, yeah, the today show, right? or something like that. But like the very obvious joke there is that we think of morning television from two very obvious branded shows. And I did it at Sundance where we were in a movie, we're in a room sponsored by Papa Johns or whatever.

I was like, Domino's. It's like natural. Yeah. I'm being silly. Of course. But my need to self-amuse, I saw the look on Pedro Pascal's face and he looked mortified. I realized like, oh, like not everybody

Poor Pedro, I didn't know. Like even though you're trying to have your fun and self-amused, not everybody is in the same mindset as you. And you have to also honor and respect that, the invisible boundary of what somebody, but if I'm being honest, that's my inclination. I find that you got to be yourself. Yeah.

At the end of the day, the greatest trend or indicator of worth is, is quality. So it's like, does Salomey putting out in A-24, track suit help Marty Supreme be this or does having a good movie help Marty Supreme be this. We don't really know.

We don't have a perfect barometer metric for that. In some instances, it did. In some instances, it didn't. You know what I mean? And I guess it's at the end of the day you're really looking at it from a marketing perspective of if you hear it X amount of times,

it will stick. And maybe that's what it really is. But it's interesting because I just got off tour And we hadn't toured in like 10 years. We didn't even know what we were going to do. And then we're now planning another tour because we had so much fun. And so one of the things we did was just like not only did we put together a tour that we believed in musically because we love the other band.

We all love each other. We also said like, how do we want to do it? Well, when we went out there, we kind of designed the experience. And I was like, I want to bring my son. My son came with me. We played golf every other day probably. We went to card shops and went hunting for Pokemon cards and sports cards. And like we did.

We love that stuff. And then we played shows at night. And so in my mind, I went, oh, I think I'm the most successful I've ever been. Right. Because you're defining it differently than you did 20 years ago. Yeah. It's great. Oh, I love that.

You know, so I think that there is something like, it's weird because I look at you and I'm like, because you won some major awards. Yeah, I won a leg lamp You won a leg lamp from My wife broke it Christmas story Sorry you said major award Ralphie

I'm vividly remembering Christmas story Darren McGavin Yeah I think that's the actor's name He's saying Oh it's a major award You know what I love that movie so much

I love that movie Not even as a Christmas movie It's just a brilliant comedy You want to take the bunny suit off Go ahead Go on Brandon We actually say that that to each other.

We've said that, like, me and my brother have this funny... Movie quote language? Entertainment analogy of, like, the bunny suit. And you're like, oh, I didn't realize I was going to have to put the bunny suit on. Uh-huh. And I feel like I'm in the bunny suit right now. You know, when you walk into an interview or a situation where you get a little blindsided because the person there maybe, like, doesn't care.

And they're just like, you're just like, you know what I mean? You're just another piece of content for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like the bunny suit is on. And I've had moments where even, and this is funny, because once again, we're like finding a new path here, even through something funny. I've worn the bunny suit and hated it.

And recently I've wore the bunny suit. And I made it fun and I made it my own. I made it my bunny suit. Yeah. And that was interesting to make the decision to kind of ask forgiveness, not permission while in the bunny suit. That's what I say with you though. You got to always remember you can always ask people to forgive you.

You'll be fine. Because as long as you're doing things that you feel and you're being yourself, I think that's what, I think you're one of those artists that has to be themselves. I think that's how, I think you play these characters that only you can play. And I think that you have a unique style. So I think you got to trust that. Yeah. And also make peace of that because there are times you want to war against what you even are. Yeah. Because you're like, oh, I want to be that guy. It's like, dude, Can you just be okay being you? Things are pretty good. You got to make,

you're psychopath. But that's the thing is like, you got to make peace with yourself. Yep. Getting sober, help me do that in Christian spiritual. What were you like when you were? Warped sober.

Oh, man. Louder. God bless it. I was louder, unknowingly selfish while, while being benevolent. Yeah. Thinking you're benevolent

and only realizing that's part of the pie graph I alluded to earlier. Yeah. And just very, very much like self-hatred, insecurity. That's tough. I think most bad behavior out of the male species is rooted in insecurity. I think that's kind of the origin story of a lot of bad stuff.

A lot of bad guys. The macho contrarians, as I've coined them, the guys who punch you with their words because they've never been in a real fight. Yeah. Yeah, those guys. To your point earlier, I'm making more peace with the timeline and saying, rather than being like, where's my next Richard Jewel? Where's my next blackbird?

I want to compete at the award show, whatever. When I worked at Vince Vaughn, he told me that Gene Hackman or somebody told him, like, you're an actor. Your job is to work. Sometimes you get great stuff. Sometimes you don't. But like, your job is to work. And if you have the privilege of not having to work all the time and you don't have kids

and you don't, whatever the situation, cool, great. Go be DiCaprio and do one movie a year with an Autour for $20 million. Hell yeah. sick. But most of us have to kind of lay our ego side and be in service to multiple things, even if they're not ticking every box imaginable. And that's okay. It's okay that I'm not Jesse Plemons or Jonah Hill with the Oscar nom and some fancy stuff. Like that's, it's okay. Like, you're okay. I kind of have to have that conversation with myself and I'm making more piece of that. Yeah. That's interesting because like if I looked at you and I, I,

So you won major awards. I actually wrote them down because I thought it was so impressive. I actually didn't know. You won a Golden Globe. Yeah. You won a Golden Globe, a Critics Choice Award, and an Emmy. Yeah. Okay.

You did win. Yeah. That's not fake. No, it's all real. Do you have? Hollywood's not fake at all. Do you have... Wait, let me cover one eye.

Okay, so I'm just saying... No, yeah, yeah. No, nothing bought and paid for. Homies, homies dug my work and I took home metal. That's right. And you have those awards, plus probably some others, somewhere in your house on a shelf somewhere or somewhere, you can actually go and dig that award up and say,

hey, here it is. I really did win it. So you did win it. So to me, what I would say is like your career has been incredible from the outsider, right? You're insanely talented. Like you're one of what I would say, like I don't even want to say.

like a sleeper because it's not like like many many people would agree with me that you're you're like really talented and that you've played these roles like to perfection you know like you just nailed these things that you've done and like what if because you're young and also the thing about making movies is like you're never going to be out of work if you're good and you are good because like no matter at whatever age you are whatever like wherever you're at you're always going there's always going to be the version of you in a role, in the right role, where you nail it, which is why being sober matters, right? Because you're, you know, there's this phrase in Christian spirituality. It's called the still small voice. Yeah. It's like, supposed to be the voice of the Holy Ghost,

Holy Spirit can talk to you sometimes. And I don't think it's audible. At least it wasn't for me. It wasn't like, I could be like, did you all hear that? It was more like, felt like something spoke to me. And it wasn't me because I wasn't thinking, I would never think whatever it said. I was drunk or high one time, and I felt the still small voice say something to me, one of maybe three times I heard it. And it said, there are people who don't like you because they've never met the real you. And I thought, whoa, what does that even mean? And what I realized is the real culmination of you coming to you and being a piece of them loving yourself, that's going to look different than the people please or insecure, self-hating, whatever this is. to come out on the other side of that, that helps you make peace with not being Austin Butler or Miles Teller

because you actually love yourself and appreciate who you are. Appreciate them for who they are, you know, and can cheer lead them. Yeah. Good actors. Super cool guys. Really good actors. Yeah. But I kind of had to learn, and I was still learning that, but I kind of had to learn that

and realize when you are self-actualizing in a genuine personal, you know, spiritual or borderline spiritual way, you start to let go of those other things. And I really do think it's better to, it's better to keep playing ball and knowing that you're going to get a good pitch than saying like, I'm going to pick my pitch to the degree that dot, dot, dot.

I think it happens with some NBA players. I've seen it where it's like, I got to get on a better team. And it's like some NBA players lose what's special about being a part of this town and this team and this organization. because they've played for five teams in 10 years. And more often than not,

and my manager and agents can back me up on this, I'm always trying to be the architect. What movie can I joke? Can I get in heat too somehow? It's got DiCaprio, Christian Bale, Michael Mann is back. It's got Stephen Graham. Can I be in heat too? There's no hard.

And that would be fun, and I think I would crush it. I think I'd be a good Tom Size World Guard in their movie, genuinely. But I also think it's me trying to be architect rather than just showing up and saying, I'm going to be, I'm going to be a great Jay Bueuner. I'm going to be a great Mickey Tadleton, a great Mike Trout, and being okay with it. And I actually think that's probably the way to go. The future me is trying to tell the present

me that, but the present me is only half less. Yeah, but also I would say like you're being you. So even if you is, I want to throw my name in to heat two, I want to go and try to get that. Like, it's okay. And then just don't. be conflicted about the results. The results are something else. You just nailed it. Yeah. You know?

You can still allow yourself that process. Yes. So long as you divorce yourself from the emotionality or offense in the results. It's not going to define you either way. If you get the role, you will deliver and you won't still won't define you. And let's talk about sometimes it comes back around too. There was a Pete Fairley movie I got offered that I passed on. And I'm a lifelong Pete Fairly guy.

But it didn't take enough box. and the expectations I had that I was like, I don't really feel like this is being honored or what have you. So I passed. And then like a year later, I get offered a Pete Fairley movie from Walberg via FaceTime. I'm just getting a FaceTime from Wahlberg while I'm at the airport. And he's like, hey, buddy,

they're pitching me some people to play opposite me in this Amazon comedy with Pete Farley. And it's awesome. But like everyone they're pitching me, I'm kind of in the middle about. Like, I think you and I would have good chemistry because we know each other and we can trust each other and this could be really fun would you be down to do it

and I read the script that day and I was like hell yeah are you and Mark Wahlberg friends yeah we're homies that's cool very much I've always liked him I've always liked him

and there are people that for a creative reason or other reason have what they want to say about him but I've spent enough time with the guy to where I know he's got a really good heart

and he helps a lot of people without signaling without a flare gun I help somebody he does a lot of that Kyle Williams has a lot of that too Kyle Williams does

does a lot of helping people unseen without trying to say hey I help somebody which is dope but what's funny is the situation ended up being so much better than the first fairly offer and I'm like that's also like

that comes around a lot that happens to me a lot dude where like the very thing that didn't make sense if I make the right decision then some version of it comes back around even better later and it's it's healthy

to trust yourself in those moments to any artist listening or budding person who's doing what we're doing. It's like it's so okay to trust yourself. Yeah. But it's scary. Yeah. Yeah. It's a two by four walk, but you're assuming it's a tight rope walk.

It's not. Yeah. It's a two by four. Yeah. You could fall. You probably won't. But then there's also the like idea like, yeah, you could fall. But like, what if the fall is a foot or two down and not off the edge of a building?

perfectly sudden. You know what I mean? Sometimes I thank God for unanswered prayers and the thing you thought was so important at the time turned out to be nothing and you had the better thing later. I've always believed it about relationships romantically. It took me forever to actually believe that about work.

Yeah. Because in the moment you're just so, oh, that would have been the thing. And it's like, even the person that got it, it might not have been the thing. Yeah. And I also think that like it's interesting because like I think that like you'll

probably step in some and you'll end up doing something some, you'll probably end up doing some movie somewhere that you just like, that you're like, they have no money and they're just like, you just love the thing. And then you end up making some piece of art that, you know, that's how art kind of works.

Yeah. You hit a nerve when you do it for the right reason. Yeah. Okay, so you're in development. I don't know if you're a lot to talk about it, but the Chris Farley biopic. Yeah, I know. We set that up a couple years ago and it we have an amazing script from new saturn weber the guys who wrote uh 500 days of summer and um daisy jones and the six at amazon these guys i cannot stress enough how much they crushed it that would be one where it's teed up for me as you were alluding to and it's if i put my love

and my homework into it i i wouldn't worry about it at all because i i know it's a ball i can hit and something i care about i wouldn't worry about it either are you doing uh the scooby-do thing Yeah, I got to do the live action Scooby-Doo thing in Netflix. And those people treated me incredibly well, took care of me, had a lot of fun. And once again, that's like commercial, but you have brilliant artisans working on production design, wardrobe, special effects makeup.

Like, I think that show's going to hit hard. Yeah. And I'm really proud of what everybody did on that. And then I have like indie films with, I did a crime film with Pete Davidson called Tommy Karate. I did a dark comedy. crime film called Turpentine with Mosul McCarthy and Bill Camp. Like a lot of, a lot of cool things that kind of are genre agnostic.

If you look at the resume, it's just very all over the place. It sounds like a dream to me. Yeah, I'm living it, man. Yeah. The wrestling, the comedy stuff, the drama stuff. And now the talk show. Yeah, dude. Oh, and the talk show, you want to talk about doing things for the right reason.

How can I satirize toxic masculinity as I see it in the world? growing at a rate that I that is just like a chia pet with an erection it's uh it's really upsetting yeah to see the andrew tates of the world and the manasphoric dudes just mount up like the young guns it's upsetting to me it's scary um i love masculinity but that's why we have a phrase called toxic masculinity yeah because anything in its extremity toxic Christianity toxic whatever fill in the word there's a version that's not great and so we are trying to shine a light on toxic masculinity and satirize it while entertaining people and making them laugh the way that I laugh at stepbrothers.

You know, as a self-professed Jesus guy and a father of three, there's some comedy in the Boy Talk Talk Show where me and Julian are just completely out of pocket. Yeah. But I'm not going to lie and clean up my comedy for the sake of perception when I'm dying, laughing at South Park and stepbrothers. Yeah. I'm not willing to do it. I don't think it's honest or healthy.

I agree. It's healthy to have edgy comedy and it's healthy to have clean comedy. It's good. I've always found like most artists start out very sweet and honest people to be honest. And then death by a thousand cuts and they're like, I'm bleeding over here.

But I think it's why it's really healthy to do therapy or get a life coach or kind of shake up the system you're in isn't to do away with all of it. But when you shake it up, when you shake up the etchus sketch, you're like, oh, I can actually make a different visual here with these knobs.

And I think, like, I think I've had a nice moment of that recently, and I'm hoping that it manifests more, in a more loud fashion. Because my poor manager and agents, like they do still hear the same sort of petty or insecure things out of me sometimes.

But I do think, the more you shake up and realize most of us can unconsciously be in default preset, mode. It's so healthy to do that. And I think even like Dwayne Johnson, it's like how much money do you really want to make at some point? And I think he probably, I'm guessing, I don't know the guy. I've never met him, but I'm guessing he hit a point where he's like, be fun to make the smashing machine with Benny Safty. Yeah. Be fun to do work with Scorsese. Be fun to try making tequila that thing. Like there is a healthy shake that you see people and maybe they're a lot

happier because they weren't running the default playbook. Yeah, I believe that like all of us are searching for at our core. I really do believe like all of us are searching for happiness. And then I'd say there's a very small number of people that are like just narcissistic psychopaths. And that's like a small percentage. I actually think that most people, especially artists, they want to be happy and they want to make things.

I think I would also tag on a sense of belonging or community. community either in the literal and the natural or through what you're making and doing because that builds community too. Yeah. I had Duane on, I call him the rock. I had him on this show. I call him the people's champ. Yeah, the people's champ.

You mean I'm not the most famous wrestler you've had on the show? Only by a little. Dang it. But I had him on the show and I really loved him. Like he sat down and we got right into it and we specifically, we shared a lot of similarities in our dad, our relationships with our fathers. Yeah. And I thought he was really like generous with his like, he shared about his dad.

I thought I'm a fan of his work. But I liked him more after talking to him. That's cool. Which was nice. Yeah. Tequila's, I have a bottle up there. Tremana. I give, I give a bottle sometimes to people who like tequila.

It's good. But I think he is a really hard worker who I think also coming from. wrestling. You could feel what I'm saying. Wrestling's different today than it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago. And the era he came out of, I think when you think about what people will accept from you, if you're, oh, you're a wrestler, right? So you can't do this role or that role. And I think that he's been proving people wrong his whole career. And I think like he's probably just recently like made that turn. I mean, it probably took him a long time to feel like at what point did he feel like he proved everybody wrong because he obviously did. But like I feel like guys like him,

John Sina, people who have come from wrestling and had these. Yeah, huge careers. Yeah. They're probably like up against, like even me, right, I'm the singer of a band where you might go like, oh, that's cool. But I might go like, no, it's not. Everyone treats me like I'm the singer of a band. Interesting. Do you mind saying more about that? Because that's one of the most interesting things I've heard in a while. People treat me like I'm the singer of. of a band. Yeah. Because when I met you,

we met at the birthday party, right? Yeah. When I met you, there was a little bit of a giddy Starstruck thing, but it was also. But I was to you too. Like I was a fan.

No, you were very cool and reciprocating. I, but I, yeah, I probably sang seasons to you. I was probably just straight up like,

October air reminds me up all the seasons of your love. Oh yeah. You sing it better than I do. Me and my buddy, me and my buddy, I would be remiss to say I worked at a summer camp for years. I mean, my buddy Aaron Howard used to literally sit around watching Kevin Smith movies and

playing on his guitar. And Seasons was like the one we would belt like the Titanic was going down. That makes me very, that makes me feel very good. I love that song. Yeah. Please receive that. But, oh, I say that to say, though, like, I feel that I, I've come to a place in my personal journey where I treat everybody 97% of the time the same.

Yeah. Whether it's dude on the street who you can smell them before you see him, whether it's Dwayne, whether it's you, whether it's any of my friends here. I feel like I treat people basically the same. So when you say that thing about they treat me like a musician or a rock star, I'm like, what is that? I guess in some scenarios, you're everybody's Friday night, right? So if they're meeting you or hanging out with you, they think it's something like,

oh, like, we're going to party. or we're going to do that and you're like, what are you talking about? Like, it's one thing if they're at your show, I guess, like that's where they're going to like have a good time. I'm sorry, I've just seen this manifest in my mind where you're like,

you show up for a friend's baptism and some guy just walks up to and goes, hey man. Or like, yeah, yeah, like by the way, I do this.

This kid's about to get the Holy Spirit, right? Yeah, like, dude, come on, man. This is wildly inappropriate. And I've never, I've never done cocaine. I've never like.

I have it either. I was so. scared. Yeah. Dude, I was scared. I couldn't do it. I've never been into drugs.

And, you know, even like pretty shy, not in the sense of like, it wasn't just like, like, I think people have this idea of like rock star life. Yeah. And like maybe some guys personified it. But I find that to be like weird and not like messy. So I've always been that way. I've always been a little neurotic in this sense of like, like, I don't want to be a mess. Anything I do, I take it seriously.

maybe too seriously, like when it comes, I try really hard or whatever. So God bless those bands that were like, I don't know, like Motley crew or whatever. Like that wasn't my idea of like being in a successful band. It wasn't that, you know, like drugs and girls and all this stuff. Like it just wasn't. No. Well, those are also ancillary. And they're kind of like these. Biproducts, not why you or I got into this. And it's also kind of like a bit, I feel like it's like this like cliche lie that's not true. No. Yeah. No. Well, It's also the deification thing you mentioned earlier, is it not? Yeah, like, I never...

It's kind of like saying like, this cookie is a meal, and then you're done with it, and you're like, I'm still hungry. Yeah, and I never wanted to be like a golden god. No, I don't either. I didn't want to be on stage and be like... I do want to be perceived as a dangerous, funny person, though. Yeah, whatever that... Like, I definitely am like...

You are. But I don't even know if that's good, but I'm being really honest about... I do want to be perceived as... Because I like dangerous, funny people. That's really what it is. I like Norm McDonald. They had to have the red button ready for Norm anytime you went on the view or anything else.

Yeah. I love sweet disruptors. Yeah. I am always going to be the guy who wants to be equal parts disruptor and medic. Yeah. I might stab you, but I'm also the guy who's going to clean the wound. Yeah. If that makes any sense.

And maybe that's, maybe that analogy is really unhealthy. but there's something to it, I guess. So I say, when I say like, they treat me like I'm the singer of a band, I say like, it's not that I think this being the singer of a band is a bad thing. I love what I do, but I guess I feel like if you only see that when you look at me, you're missing the whole point. And that's just one thing I do. I don't know.

Maybe that's an insecurity of mine. But I feel like it's just like. that you can't, that you aren't supposed to talk about the music? No, no, we can, but it's not necessarily what I'm interested in talking about. Yeah, no, I mean, I'm, dude, my buddy Chris Caraba from Dashford, him and the Freight just at a concert, and I went backstage. All we did was talk. I love Chris. He's a man. Yeah. I know him very well. I love him. Yeah. One of my childhood heroes that I'm now getting to sit with. That's pretty cool.

That's cool. But, but I've been doing that a lot lately. I'm very spoiled. But in that, I, you know, me and Craig and some of the guys from the friends. We were all talking about our kids. Yeah. We're also just talking about things we're fans of in general. It doesn't have to be about Richard Jewell. That would be weird after nine seconds. Right.

But we're all talking about what we're watching and listening to that has nothing to do with us. Yeah. And that's more of the connective tissue than someone expecting. And maybe that's it. Maybe it's just I want you, I want you to connect with me as a person. And versus like your idea of me.

Yeah. which is something that I probably do for in terms of time, probably I do it for about 50 hours a year. You are guesstimating the time in which you have. I'm on stage singing. Oh, okay. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

Across the year, if I do that for 50 hours, it's probably the smallest part of my life. In a lot of ways. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But tends to be the biggest topic of conversation. That's the thing that can magnetize a lot of people and that's what they know of you.

At the outset. Yeah, so I'm not complaining about it. I guess I'm maybe, maybe I don't know what I'm doing. I think I've been, I think I've been that guy early in my career that probably treated some people that way. In fact, I know I did. But I think I did break that cycle and get out of it. My entry point with most people is I'd rather crack a joke or say something genuine.

Yeah. Then try to appeal to what I think this is supposed to be. Right. And the more often, more often when I do that, I make new friends because we're, I'm inviting you into the silliness of, I'm actually, I'm trying to get to you, but I'm actually promulgating myself and my character and my traits so that you have a way into me that isn't about anything other than the real me. Yeah.

Does that make sense? Totally makes sense. It's a weird little trick gag thing that's fun, but it also is like a bit of a smell test to either invite. It's like chefs. They put onions on the grill, not even because they're serving something with onions. is because they know that the smell is going to bring somebody to a food truck. Yeah.

I'm kind of giving the aroma of something that's, that is for the sake of opening up and not saying like, have you guys seen my movie? Your first, like, big role broke out. How old were you? I got my break from a show called Kingdom that was on the audience network on direct TV. It wasn't a huge show. But Frank Grillo was the lead. We had Nick Jonas, a multi-hyphen it as well.

If you haven't seen Nick Jonas' new movie with Paul Rudd, it's called PowerBank. I saw it. I saw it. Run, don't walk. I thought it was great. I thought it was great. Cool movie, cool movie.

And I did that show and I started out, I was supposed to do two episodes as a co-star under five lines of dialogue. They pay you nothing. And you come in, you do your thing. You're happy to get to be on a TV show and act for a day or two. I improvised and took it deathly seriously. I treated a scrimmage like the Super Bowl.

And they wrote me into 24 out of 40 episodes. And I got to quit my day job. I was working at Flappers Comedy Club and Burbank nearby. And I got to quit my job and my manager, Brian, who's sitting in the room at the time he was my agent. He helped me get enough of a fee to where I could quit serving tables and holding doors. So that was the entry. How old were you? Brian was that 2014, so I would have been 28. Wow. So that was like, that was sort of me going like, ooh, I'm about to like earn my associates its degree. I Tanya was like in 2017 was the movie where it's like you're starting your bachelor degree.

And I Tanya then had Black Klansman with Spike Lee and then Richard Jule. And that was like really earning the bachelor degree where it's like you got your foot in the door. You got your foot in the door with kingdom. These movies have now allowed you to enter the door and they shut it. And then Blackbird in 2022 was them saying, you know, you can, the party is still question mark. You know, You want to see the rest of the house? Like, that was kind of the flow state of that over a, what was really only 2014 to 2020. That was really only like a six to seven year period of time,

probably seven years from those degrees. Did it feel faster, slow? It always feels a little slow when you're in it, but looking back, it was warp speed. Yeah. The amount of opportunities I got in a seven-year time window was absurd. Yeah.

And that includes working for Disney on Cruella Inside Out 2. That includes Cobra Kai. That includes wrestling. It's a lot of cool crap in a short... When did you start wrestling?

I got asked to do a show for the victims of the Maui Wildfires to raise some money. It was me and it was Ronda Rousey and all these great fighter people you've heard of. I thought I was showing up to do autographs and take free photos or whatever the thing was

and do my part. And then he said, do you want to wrestle? This guy, Sammy Callahan, was like, do you want to wrestle? and I was like, yeah, I've never done it, but I've like played around the ring, maybe 12 hours of like training with wrestler friends. Are you a big fan of wrestling? Psychotic, yeah, psychotic.

And to this day, if I meet a wrestler I love like Aaron Anderson or Sting or Rick Flair, Diamond Dallas Page, it's more exciting to me than meeting, Phil in the Blank actor. And so I did that one match and I just had a crazy adrenaline spike, which I have never had in my life the thing I felt. and I kept doing it and you know there are some fans and people who are like you know oh this guy sucks you know

he's overstayed his welcome 15 minutes of fame he's doing Hollywood it's like I've never hurt anybody in the ring in 33 matches I put more butts in seats which helps out the indies who are making money and it's paying for everything

I have a blast and I've there are times where I've brought in a bunch of food for the locker room or wrestlers I paid this guy to make a bunch of not papoosa what's the other thing? I've like,

PINANATES. Yeah, I've like paid a dude to come and make empanadas for the roster. Like, I try to give back as much as I can to the professional wrestling world and love them as well as I can. But also, you love doing it. Yeah, I do. So who cares? I feel like there's got to be even more. You weren't the right.

Yeah. You are in the right. You know what I mean? Like, for whatever reason, they let you come in there and you went in there and you're still there because you love doing it. And that's enough for me. No, I appreciate you saying that because I think I still feel like I need to find new ways to reciprocate and earn love or trust from those people. I personally feel like obviously we don't know each other really well, but I remember meeting you and I knew right away.

I was like, we probably would have been friends in high school. You're a nice guy. You're extremely talented. I don't think you know how talented you are. I think you believe in yourself. And I think that you have, if anything, you have the incredible drive. You know what I mean? like you have a want and that is enough, but you also have talent.

So guys who are talented and work hard and have drive, you are never going to have to worry about success. You're always going to have success. When it comes, how it comes, that part, I can't, I don't have a crystal ball of the exact timeline, but I know if I could look at as long as I've been around, if I could look at people and if I was going to put money on horses in a race. I have people like that where I'm like, I know. I get excited because I'm like this, this.

I'm never wrong either. I promise you. I want to talk to your wife. I have seen, when it comes to picking winners in movies and arts and I see someone, I watch tons of shit and I see people coming. Yeah, I was surprised.

Your knowledge of what we do was pretty serious. I've always just picked stars. Like, I've seen people coming. I remember seeing different people from, you mentioned Miles Teller, or you mentioned this person or that person. Yeah.

I remember seeing people early going to, man, that kid's a star. He's going to be a big star. Miles Teller, to your point, I saw him in a movie called Rabbit Hole with Aaron Eckhart, Nicole Kidman. He's got like one or two scenes of Nicole. He's like on a bench in a park. I was like, that dude. Yeah, yeah, some people. And so I think that like you are going to have a ton of success and it's going to be like a winding road that's interesting and not just a straight line, which is I relate to that because I think that's my career. And that's why I'm always more interested in that, like, that arc, because I think that you're going to be surprised.

Thanks, man. By yourself. I hope so. I bet all my money on it. For the record, when I see other people doing the very thing you're saying, when I see Action Bronson having a food show, I think it was called Fuck, it's Delicious or whatever. Yeah. I love that because it's, it's, once again, you feel they're authentically following their

ticker in their nose. They're like, this is the thing I want to do. And it's cool. It's cool seeing people do that. It was such a bummer when Kobe Bryant died, not just for the obvious reasons of he has a family and his beloved, talented figure. But like it seemed like he was about to do the very thing you're saying. Yeah.

When he won that short film Oscar thing and was like getting into it. It seemed like, oh, we're about to see this other thing. I think Stephen Colbert is in that place. I think leaving late nights he'll look back and be like, thank you. I'm glad I left. Because whatever is on the other side of that and whatever he gets to know,

whatever path he may have had to ignore or didn't even know was there, it's like it's exciting to think like, what's that going to be? Yeah. Also, like, anybody who has had continued success in very hard fields, so I put movies in that field,

I put music in that field. When you think about like, the people that get to a, award-winning levels of success like yourself, right? You got to put yourself in that category just by the IMDB credits of the awards you've won, right? Or how long you've been working? Or I look at that and I go like, well, what else could they do? Because artists are so dynamic. We're not just one thing. Yeah. So yeah, Colbert will do something. Well, you tap into that thing, though. Yeah. Jim Carrey did a painting and some of his paintings are awesome. I love Jim Carrey.

You have one? Yeah, he had like 50 prints made of this thing called She's the Bomb. Yeah. And it's got this like matching orange frame. It's really cool. That's cool. Okay, so the talk show. Please, yeah.

Please go see my movie Resident Evil. I say my movie. I'm in it for 10 minutes or whatever. But I love Zach Krieger. I think Barbarian was dope, but weapons was even better. And I'm hoping we got a turkey in bowling terms with this Resident Evil movie. Resident Evil. What else are you excited about?

But super stoked about the boy talk talk show. It's so silly and it's deeply irreverent and dysfunctional and funny. But it's also trying to shine a light on this reality of culture right now. And next year I got, I got like five movies coming out next year, five or six that are kind of like stowed up. Yeah. That have been like laying around. Yeah. And I don't think that's indicative of their quality.

I think it's just indicative of the game we play. Yeah. And I'm hoping those entertain people, man, because the longer I stay in the business, I got 17 years, if I'm learning something, it's become so crystallized that like you don't know what's going to be a hit.

You know what's going to hit a nerve. You don't know what's going to be completely forgotten. One of my favorite albums of all time is rocking the suburbs from Ben Folds when he went solo. I love Ben Folds. I love him. So I'm live in downtown LA years ago, and just it was like food for the soul.

And then Zoolander, one of my favorite comedies of all time. I've seen it 30 times or whatever. Both those came out around 9-11 in 2001 and did not do what they could have. Thankfully, they found audience later, et cetera. But like divorcing yourself from the results and hoping people are touched by it is about the best conclusion you can come to. I think you are entertaining people. And I think that you have to just continue to go forward and be yourself.

because I just think you haven't done anything. If I watched the arc so far, I'd say you're nailing it. Thanks, man. And thank you for the entertainment you've provided me and everybody I know. I have those hallmark moments of seasons being like that song we played all summer and continue to play. I remember when I got into video editing, which I'm really passionate about to, I'm directing a documentary about my wrestling journey. And we've been compiling footage, and I love editing.

love the editing process. It's so fun to play God with a computer. And I say that to say, I remember when I got into editing, I just shot a bunch of footage of my spring break one year when I was 17 with me and my friends. We didn't do anything extraordinary, but it was catching fun moments on this like road trip we took. And I set it to the anthem. And it was a fun moment of like trying to find the footage that feels right at different parts of the song and like finding the magic of that. So just know from Veep's partnering with MLW, to your long history and future music. Like, thank you, bro.

Thank you. That makes me really happy. I actually realized why we were sitting there when I said earlier, people treat me like I'm just the singer of a band. And I was thinking, like, if I play that back to myself, is that a bad thing? It means they were entertained by something that I did and they relate to me in a good way and like something that they,

I think that they see as a positive thing. And so it's funny. I was just like, I'm going to analyze that when I got. go home and go like, what part of you are you not accepting about yourself? But what I was going to say is this. Depends how it materializes too. Hopefully the person can hold both. Yeah.

We can keep it on the real while being a fan of said thing. Yeah. Where I think you'll go in that work is total acceptance of your own confliction around anything or your own imperfections around anything or your own. I wonder if I should have said that or not. No, that's why I like you. Making peace. That's why I like you.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Okay, maybe you shouldn't have. I don't know, but keep that energy. You know what I mean? I appreciate that. Doesn't mean you won't find new ways of doing this. The growth will happen.

The refinements. It'll happen. But keep that same energy because it's that wrestling match that you're having. That's what is so great about you because we all are. But we're afraid to, most of us won't let it out. Most of us will keep it too buttoned up or to this or to that. And like the people who can't help but. be themselves are the ones who who teach us how to be ourselves, right? And like, whereas the guy

that, like, has it all perfect, I don't know, like, there's plenty of them out there. We could pull them all up and there's people selling perfect to all of us in different ways where I'm skeptical of because I'm definitely not selling perfect. I'm not telling anyone I know. I've been with my wife for 20 years. I don't know how. I love it. I love her. But when people are like, how did you guys do it. I'm like, I don't know. Like, don't ask me. We just love each other and we're trying our best. Yeah. I also see people get divorced and I understand like it's tough. Like I get it. But I'm not selling like, especially on this show like any answer to anything other than like, I don't know, you go and you figure it out and you try to be your best and you try. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's more about

exploring the different thoughts than coming to a conclusion, obviously. And that's what's so fun about this forum. I think you're, you know, you get to have a safe space to talk about that. And I, and for the record, the same way, listen, I was married, divorced, got sober, and remarried the same woman and two more kids. The same woman. Yes. Wow. That lets you know somebody screwed up and it wasn't her. Right. So I, I'm willing to own the faults and retract something. If I repost something and somebody goes, bro, that's a I slop. That's not even real. Or, bro, that article you reposted that you're really upset about, that's from nine months ago. Right.

I have those moments a few to several times a year and I have to retract it, neither make a statement or just make a statement by deleting it. And I've apologized to people online or in person. But by the same token, when Valenciauga put out an ad where it had a little choker necklace around a little kid's neck. Yeah. And it was hanging a teddy bear. Yeah. don't for one minute think that I am going to ignore my objectivity

for the fear of your disagreement because that's... But that's the rapper in you. That's the wrestler in you. Yeah. You know what I mean? But that's the thing is I want to buy you brunch. I want to pick up the bill when you're not looking.

I want to hug you and cry with you. I want to know you're in most desires. I want to know how I can help you before you ask me for help. I love you. By the same token, I am the same guy who is ready to wear blood on his clothing and lose his job if it means I was on the right side of moral history. Yeah. And that is violently important to me. And I think I expect it out of more people sometimes.

And it's not fair to put that on them. But that is how I see the world where if somebody was sexually harassing somebody on a movie set, I'm going to fuck you up, dude. Yeah. I believe in Jesus. that does not mean I am your Christian. Yes. You're getting up. Yeah.

And whatever that is, I don't know where it came from. Maybe it's being from Saginaw, Michigan. Shout out to the nasty. It's the rapper in you. There's some justice tick in me that's like, I can put up with a lot and I have. And I'll give somebody 12 chances, not a second chance. You might get a dozen.

You might get 15. But if it's the wrong thing, it's the wrong thing. And I can't be, I can't back down from that if I know it's wrong. Yeah. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. I love it. I don't know, man.

Like, it's not a false, like, you're being yourself. That's why I back it, and I love it. And I also, I've never been bothered. I always, like, see you express yourself, and I'm happy to see someone do it. I think you're being you. And, you know, I think that, uh, sometimes I just want to make somebody else feel better about the same situation I'm upset about. Yeah.

I'm kind of just signaling to go. Anybody else seeing this? Yeah. You're not crazy. I don't think I'm crazy. I'm not the smartest guy in the room, but I'm also not a liar. You're not a liar. I'm also not.

Yeah. And like what I always say, for me, the answer is in you. So I tell anyone listening to this show, you're going to find the answer if you go do the work. If you go work on yourself, you will find the answer. Exploration. To all your problems. It all lies within you. And that's the whole, for me, that's my whole philosophy is I work on myself.

And I try to get a little bit better every day. I tell people to, you know, my dad's a minister of a retired Lutheran. minister. It's like it used to be so black and white and so much about like, how do you save everybody? How do you? How do you? How do you? And it's just like, I'm now at the point where your job is to love people and let them go on the journey. Yep. Because for me to dictate it and tell you how to you, that's not the journey. Yeah. And God's love and mercy is bigger than whatever legalism we're going to try to attach to our faulty adaptation of an ancient book that's already been adapted behind the scenes many times. Yeah.

It's provable that this thing is not exactly what it was two thousand years ago. Yeah, yeah. And I'm not talking out of school. Yeah. It's, it's, this is, it's now there, buddy. You now have the information. You can ignore it or you can stand on your, on your tribalistic views. But I tell people, go on the journey, man.

God's got you. You're going to figure it out. Yeah. Paul? Sir. Thanks for coming. Resident Evil. Resident Evil.

the Boy Talk Talk Show, trying to raise kids. Trying to raise kids. Trying to not screw them up. That's right. Trying to not have them need as much therapy as I do. Just a little bit of therapy. Just a little bit. Thanks for coming, dude.

Thanks for having me. You know, next year you'll have some movies. Maybe like same time next year, you come on. I'm in, dude. Yeah. Thank you for listening to this episode of Artist Friendly. You can also watch the episodes on Spotify. Spotify premium users get no commercial breaks on my.

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