Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Petey

Episode Date: January 24, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Petey. You’ve likely seen Petey on TikTok, who’s made his mark creating comedic, surreal videos featuring a rotating cast of characters that he plays himself. He also makes music — his most recent album, USA, came out in the fall — which juxtaposes his viral clips by employing a more serious, introspective headspace and is indebted to growing up listening to pop punk. “I try really hard to do a good job with this incredibly unique and cool opportunity I’ve been given. That brings me a lot of joy and peace,” Petey told Alternative Press last year. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'm talking with singer-songwriter, Pidi, about his new album USA and his tour and a bunch of other stuff. Let's go. I was very excited that you were coming to do the show. Right on. Me too. I was excited to be here. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. Because I've been following you for probably like two years. Nice. And I would have never thought to even reach out and ask if you would do the show. But I've been getting bolder and more adventurous in my asks. Yeah, yeah. Because I've learned, I think, if you don't ask, you'll never know.

Yeah, yeah. No, it's great. It's great. And I love your music. Oh, thank you, dude. Likewise. It's interesting because you do comedy and I love it and I love your music and I can't tell which one I like more. Because you're really good at both

And they both Are different from each other Yeah It's cool Yeah So I'm stoked to you're here Right on man I'm stoked to be here

Actually were you Represented at ICM at some point Yeah yeah Well I was yeah I was there for a little bit I used to see Walker I worked in the mailroom Really? Yeah for like three and a half years

I was just like a full-time mailroom staff employee Wow So I used to deliver packages up on the floor But I had to just like have sort of like a mouse Like presence up there, but I would see you walking around there all the time and I always get really stoked. Oh, really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool. Yeah, so did we ever say hi? I don't think so. I was definitely taught not to like. Really? Yeah. Don't say hi to anyone.

Agencies are funny. Oh, they're hysterical, yeah. I don't group all agents and agencies together. Totally. Yeah. But experience is experience. And I've had, I'm friends with some amazing agents. Yeah.

And I think they stand out. a group of otherwise sometimes agents can really be like they can suck yeah sociopaths yeah and then they say well I suck because I'm getting my client more money and you're like no you're not right I'm getting I'm a I'm in management now for 10 years yeah we help artists get make money and we don't suck yeah yeah no it's it was totally a fun I mean it was a wild place to be for three and a half years it just like my only responsibility was to deliver packages so I had a whole lot of free time just like within that ecosystem. Yeah.

It's just sort of like observing a lot for a long time. It's a hell of a place to kind of learn. Oh, for sure. Just kind of like what you like about human nature. Human nature. Not even necessarily the business, but just about how people work when they're sort of like confined to like a set of, I don't know, just rules like.

Rules, pressure, money, benchmark goal posts that are always constantly, put in front of them. Yeah. Stress. Yeah. Competitive toxicity. Yeah.

There's some of that. Not to say everyone there is the, because like I said, that's the music, kind of the music business. There's really good people. But then there's plenty of clowns in the music business that like, they, that's why it's almost weird because you're like, how anyone could be anyone they want to be, which is a great thing. But also there's no degree you have to get.

So you can, people can come into the music business and say anything. Yeah. They write artists will believe them. Oh, yeah, for sure. But it also makes all the good people, because I feel like I've just met so many great people in the music business that stand out. Yeah. Because they are just hardworking.

Yeah, I made lifelong friends there. And I would have never thought, like in the first month or whatever. I was like, I'm not going to meet anyone that I'm going to be actually friends with you. And now I have a bunch, which is great. Yeah, yeah. There's some great people there. At all the agencies, it's like kind of like the way it is. Yeah.

Do you have a favorite thing that you do or is it all important to you? It's all important to me. Like I guess I don't know if it's important. It's the right word, but I've been able to create a life for myself where I could like wake up and be like, all right, well, what are we working on today? We're going to like do a sketch. I'm going to write a song. We're going to record a song. We're going to do like a longer form video.

We're going to film a music video. All that to me just like is wrapped up into the same thing. and I kind of just like do wherever like the money is in the exact moment. So it's just like if we're getting paid for something, I'm going to do that. But I feel like I'm using the same parts of my brain to do it all. Right. It's creative. Yeah, totally.

So I'm super, I feel super lucky and to like live that life. But yeah, right on. Oh yeah. But I don't really think like too differently about any of them. It's kind of just like, right, how we're going to get paid this month or this week. And we'll do what we can. you are so good at making things like your videos from the first time i saw them and i have i've followed just like as a consumer just it's just one of those little things i like so it's in my feed right

yeah yeah so comedy and it intimidates me yeah because i've known a lot of comedians over the years living here for the last 20 years and they're very comedians are really interesting people they're really smart, like too sharp. I always get intimidated when I'm around them because they just, I actually think comedians tend to me, they feel I've always found them to be like the most intellectual people. Interesting. That I've met.

Yeah. And then the most, the intellectual people that are supposed to be intellectual, that get treated like intellects all over at wherever they go because they, maybe they wrote a book or maybe they did something. Yeah. Find them less intellectual. intellectual and sharp than the comedians that I know all tend feel to me like the smartest people. I think to play dumb, you have to be really smart.

I have trouble identifying, like, as a comedian, I think, because I feel like so much of, like, the comedy world is, like, thinking on your feet and, like, improv and, like, being quick and being sharp. And I'm none of those things. I mean, a lot of the, which is funny that the videos end up working out. but like everything I do in terms like is very premeditated and like written out like I really I don't go into any like video making situation without having all the lines like completely dialed right like say them as is yeah I don't like to switch stuff up um same with like songwriting sessions I don't go

into song I don't do that like I don't like write with other people and be like let's write another song like everything is like done before I go in um even before I like I have a conversation with a stranger I like plan out what I'm going to say right right beforehand. So like all like I'm not like an improv guy and that's like such I feel like that's such a it's such a smart comedian thing. So because that's like sort of my vibe I've like never really like felt like I fit in with the the comedy community. It's just so happen to work out that I just like wrote a sketch for TikTok that I thought no one would see and like two million people saw it and like kept writing and like two million people kept seeing like all of them. Yeah well everyone said yes.

Yeah. So that's something. Yeah, for sure. This is one of the reasons I like having these conversations because there's a lot of people listening that can probably identify. I just think that just because you're not an improv specialist, you likely have the muscle. You're using it in a way that you probably feel more comfortable using it. And that's a practice. But also, like, people have different styles.

So you may be more of a writer than a performer. Or you may be more of a, you know, like we all have our. But it's definitely comedy. Mm-hmm. 100%. Because the first time I saw it, that was exactly how I identified it as, oh, this made me laugh. It was a, it's really, it's like bite-sized, it's quick, it feels good. It's not mean, which is also another thing for me is like I always like, things strike

me when they can be funny without being mean. Yeah. I wonder sometimes that that's just because. Yeah, I don't think I write a lot of mean things, but if I'm, I make fun of the characters in the sketches a lot, but they're all me. But they're you. Yeah, so it's like, I feel like I can get away off the life. It's like self-deprecating. Yeah.

But, and then when I heard your music, because I really liked California off the last record. Sure, yeah. And I was kind of struck by how different those two things are. And then your touring is also really good. Yeah. Like you tour, you have strong touring. Yeah, it's crazy. How long have you been touring? I just finished the first leg of my second tour.

So two years. Doing really well. It's doing great, yeah. Definitely like selling tickets, which feels awesome. It's cool. Yeah. It's unique. It's not often you see someone that can do these multiple things that they work together,

but they are not, I don't group them together. When I see you on stage, I see an artist who's like got great songs. Yeah. I think that it's like I don't, I've described it as not, it's not like a Venn diagram, right? It's more like a super, it's like a circle within another circle. Right. So it's like, they cross a little bit.

No, it's like, because I don't, I haven't met anyone who like knows the music that didn't know I do TikToks or videos. Right. So they all know the TikTok. Right. Yeah. So if you take like, it. like a big circle that's like the TikTok stuff. And then if you take a smaller but much more concentrated circle and put it inside the bigger

one, then that's sort of the music fandom. Yeah. So I think I'm like you, you know, my stuff is not screaming like to the moon, you know. But everyone who like the conversion on the people who listen to my songs and go see it live is like crazy high. It's like really high. And I think it's because that they're involved with like both worlds. So it's like they want to hear the songs, but they also want to see the guy that they see in the videos.

And it becomes like kind of like, I don't know. I just have had a really easy time selling tickets. I think comparatively to like how many like albums I'm selling or whatnot. And it's like it's a blessing. It's awesome. Yeah, I actually think that their touring artists stream less but sell more tickets. Streaming artists stream more but sell less tickets. For sure.

That's what I've seen. Yeah. And it feels like you're building like an in real life. Like it's like a, it's almost like a way for people who, but also one of the things that I think that you do well in your content in the, in the videos you make, I don't want to say content. It is content, but the sketches you do. Yeah. Is they do feel like you, you do feel like a character. So you wonder what the real guy is like.

Yeah. So there is an invitation almost. almost to like, I wouldn't mind like hanging out with him. And then you listen to the music and it's really good. Yeah. So if you were like making shitty music. Mm-hmm. So I'm gonna make my music.

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You may have like a kitchy in real life experimental event and people might come once or twice but to build touring audience you have to have good music

and you have to be good live period, done. Yeah. It's the one thing I know with MDDN when we work with bands one of the questions is

is how are they live and Are they good songwriters? Like you have to have a generative part of you that can do it again and make songs. And it can't just be a fluke. I think it needs to be a real artist. Yeah, totally. And then live, there's got to be something there live that's like, and everything I've seen of yours live and the music, it just stands up.

It's fun. Yeah. I mean, it's fun. It feels good. I feel like the live shows better than my records, which is cool. That's cool. Partially because I hire really good guys to play the songs and on the records, it's just me.

So they're bad. Yeah, you play everything. Yeah. That's cool. So I have better musicians than myself playing live, which I, it just like makes it so much fun. And we're all buddies and we have so much fun together. Like from what I've seen like every crowd and every city, it's like they're all

singing like all the words. Yeah. Which is really, really cool. It makes it so much easier, at least from a like stage fight perspective. It's just like, oh, damn. Okay. You guys are doing like a lot of the legwork for me. This is sick.

And that's been the pretty normal experience. I just feel so lucky. It's great. Were you a big, like, emo kid growing up? Totally. Yeah, I can hear it. Yeah, big time. My first concert that I went to without parents was a motion city soundtrack.

Oh, wow. How old were you? I was probably 13. It was when they put out, commit this to memory. I saw them at the Vic Theater in Chicago. 13-year-olds were so much cooler. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, my parents were pretty good about letting me just like take the aisle into the city. and we could go and I don't know I don't know if you could do that these days as a 13 year old I don't yeah maybe I don't have a gauge on like what it's like to I don't know anyone with kids in Chicago I know people with kids

here and it's a completely different vibe to like raise kids in LA versus Chicago I think yeah LA is different at least like the north side of Chicago being like contained to that with like within the train system and stuff and like bopping back forth between the stuff it was pretty easy

Free safe. Yeah, it seems like. Just the occasional bully. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Seems like no big deal. But, yeah, that was a fun show. Fall Out Boys from where I'm from.

Yeah. So, yeah, a ton of that, like, one I too, of course. Do you know those guys, Fall Out Boy? No. Okay. No. But all you Chicago people, like, all know each other somehow. Yeah.

Alkaline trio from Chicago. Yeah, big, huge Alkaline trio guy. But I'm 30. I just turned 32. Oh, wow. I'm a bit like younger than those guys. Yeah, you're, yeah. Yeah.

But 32. That's young, dude. I guess, yeah. It's young enough to, it's young enough to still feel young, but old enough to be old. For sure. So you're definitely not. I certainly don't want to be younger. Like I'm definitely like loving life more with each past year, which feels great.

That's how I feel. I'm 44 and I don't want to be any other age. No. And when I'm 45, I hope I feel the same way. Yeah. I hope so. I think aging is kind of a. if you embrace it you can do it well yeah and i it's hard to watch people who don't want to age

because you can't stop it for sure just got to kind of go with it yeah i just i don't know i've been like on a nice like steady uh upward trajectory which has been really nice it makes me out like yearn for being 22 that sucked so bad but how long did it take you from when you decided i want to make music or I want to do like when did you move out here and when did you and was it to pursue creative? Yeah, I mean, I moved out here with a very little structure and very little idea of what I wanted to do. I just figured that if I was in LA I would give myself my best shot. Well, I really wasn't thinking too critically about like anything other than just like being in the zone with good weather. And, you know, I had a very limited idea of what LA was.

I thought I'd be able to like work retail and then like live on the beach. That's like so stupid. Yeah. Me too. Walk across the street after my shift and like jump in the water. It's like TV. I'll work at a hot dog stand. It's like the show.

Yeah. And that was like totally not at all. It's a grind here. It's hustle. For sure. Yeah. It's like super and it's not very, it's not a super convenient place to be poor at all.

It's not so bad. It's a terrible place. to not have money yeah but but then once you're in it like you don't want to move home so you're just like kind of stuck in this like weird like kind of purgatory zone and I was stuck in it for like eight years wow yeah I just couldn't figure out I couldn't figure out I'd make more than like 15 an hour for the first eight years I was here I was trying as hard as I could yeah so it's like I sort of compartmentalize my whole vibe and like just trying to survive and pay rent um that I wasn't even thinking about doing anything creative.

I kind of like put that out of my head in like the first two years. I was like I can't even focus on this at all. Then I got that ICM gig and I just like sat in a basement and delivered packages for three and a half years. And that's when I was like, okay, I got health insurance. This is a good job. It was fine. Yeah. But I was just like, you know, I'm not using any of my brain capacity to like do the work.

Yeah. It was a lot. Like there would be like three hours where I would just sit in the basement and do nothing. Right. I was trying to Cubs game or whatever. Not a terrible job. No, yeah, it was totally fine. If I had known going into it that I was going to like use the time to be creative,

maybe I would have gotten somewhere sooner. But it wasn't until like probably like three years in where I was just kind of like staring down the barrel at never getting out of there. Yeah. And I'd be like, I got to do something to switch it up. And I just got out of a relationship. chip that was kind of tough and so I just wrote a couple songs and recorded them and so that came first uh music yeah and then you started making those videos yeah so I recorded two songs I've recorded

then I've sent them around to like different indie labels because I was like I'd love to flesh out an EP but I don't I can't afford it I'm I'm really not like I'm like a studio guy like I like to go in play drums play real instruments like all that stuff I need at the that time I needed to it to be a transaction for me to to motivate me to actually release it. Because at the time it was like, oh my God, I just spent $300 like this has to come out. I'm not going to waste $300 like that. I needed that sort of like motivation. Yeah. So I did that and then signed an indie label deal with terrible records. And then they give me advance. So which was more than my yearly salary at ICM. So I quit. That was the first time I ever

gotten paid for anything up front. And as soon as I got money up front for something, I was like, this is what I've been waiting for my entire life. Like I'm no longer bound to like the weekly paycheck. Now I have a year to figure out how to make more. And then I realized right away that I was like really good at living life like that. So yeah. And then I started the TikTok during COVID. But I got the music advance first. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. I think most people don't look at it this way because they're not in the music business but once you kind of get in i always like i always said if i can get my foot in the door yeah it's going to be a problem for everyone yeah yeah i'm going to go in and i'm going to work harder and i'm going to but how was always was the big question it's such a mystery

yeah when i started when we you know we left home uh 17 18 and then we looked at everyone around us at our age and they were all going to college. And it wasn't necessarily a great option for us. It was pretty complicated to figure out how we could go to college money and all the and grades and all that. And I was like, you know what? I have four years. By the time they're done graduating, if I don't make this happen, I'll just go get a job. I'll go get some respectable job, I guess, that someone else would get, you know, and work my way up in some, you know, job at some company somewhere in my mind yeah yeah and then we just worked really hard at it and by 20 by 20 we had gotten our record deal and so I was ahead of schedule which I liked but I think that setting

goals like that like you got that first you may have like maybe subconsciously because I don't ever want to rule out that there was a part of you that wasn't fiercely determined to do exactly what you're doing whether you were fully conscious that you wanted it that bad or decided it. I think sometimes we struggle between those two parts of ourselves. Yeah. Like the brain or the conscious part of us is like we're only thinking in math. What's possible?

What are the possibilities? What is what's the odds, right? And so we've kind of been like conditioned by the world to kind of look at things in terms of what is possible at face value based on what I think I'm worth and what people think I'm worth and where I'm from and whom I'm from. and who my family is, whatever. So I think there's this conscious part of us

that makes a face value judgment even on ourselves, but there's a subconscious part of us, the creative part of us where all these ideas come from. Your music is really good. That doesn't come from, that's not an accident.

Right, right. I listen to your records and I go, someone put effort into this because it's really good. Yeah. And it didn't just like, shit it out. Right. It's fucking good. Because I see you with a big ceiling, like a very high ceiling. I think if you're not already acting, you will. You're not writing comedies or movies. And it doesn't have, you could also, I'm not, I'm not boxing you in with comedy. It's just the first meal I've had at your restaurant, right? For sure, yeah.

Drama could be a thing. But all I'm saying is, is like, I think there's the potential is, is, endless and I want to say it's endless for everyone but not everyone's willing to put themselves out there to see right but so when I think of the the you in that time kind of eight years in the like let's call it contemplation phase yeah right I always try to like label things so I can understand what someone was doing. Sure. And so eight years spent wandering in contemplation, looking for the opportunity to create. And then you take a step, do your songs, you get a deal.

And then you get confirmation that you were right, that something in you was right, that you could do that. Yeah. And then you give yourself a timeline, okay, I have one year. till this money runs out. Yeah. To figure out how to replicate my win there. And like, I only, I only break all this down because people listening, most of the

people that listen to this show, most of them are actually like looking for insight into how to accomplish things. For sure. Yeah. And I mean, you're totally right. I certainly could have been like, I probably obviously was motivated by like a lot of subconscious things. But I think after struggling to make money for so long and getting into it so late, for me to be financially motivated to make decisions about this, it's not like the sexiest thing

in the world, but it actually like freed up me to make like sort of like objective decisions without like vanity or like ego shit involved. But I think sexy is a really, sexy is a really false idea, right? Oh yeah. We can paint ourselves up sexy. We can put makeup on. We can We can suck things in and we can get in the right angle and we can be sexy. But reality is reality. Yeah, totally. And I would say that 99.9% of people are financially motivated to take steps forward. For sure.

Over everything else because we all have to eat. We all need a roof over our heads. And we all have to like take care of our families, our growing families, our dream of having a family. Most people can't even start the dream of having a family until they feel like they have financial security. Yeah. And financial insecurity is probably the number one problem that everyone, myself included, yeah. Financial was my biggest inspiration to make it.

Yeah. Because grew up with nothing. And it was always a problem. Every $100, every $50, every $20, every $20 you needed for something was always an obstacle. Yeah, it doesn't leave a lot of space to be, to think about creative stuff when you have to think about. $50. Yeah, exactly. You know?

Yeah. And like people forget how. real that is when we talk about creative. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So it just like, it freed it up for me for the entire year. And to be able to be like, I have this, this clock runs out at the end of the year. So how do I make, how do I turn this into more? And that was awesome. And to be able to think about the label deal, I don't know, I had a very good idea of like what a record label was at that point too, which for me has always just been a bank, you know, who gives out forgivable loans for you to like do your thing. And that's what it was.

That's what they are. And to think, yeah. And to think about it as anything more than that is like, I don't know. I just, I like, I'm fortunate today, I think have a real, a real head about it. So I think that, right, if we, if we kind of expand on that, because at its very baseline, it is that. Yeah. When you find a great partnership, there's a ton of other things you can experience and get in a good partnership. I'm more talking about like my mindset going right you know it's just like at least I get to cash

this check and then make something and then try and make more whatever however like good or fruitful the relationship is along the way that like sort of like in my head that's just seen that's just like an extra sort of luxury to that you know initial initial money that you get um and it's just sort of helped me navigate it in a way to just basically like manage expectations and be like the only thing that this means is that I'm getting money to make music and that's my job for the year and that's awesome. So yeah, it's been cool. It's been a fun, a fun run.

Do you like the touring? I do, yeah. I think about this whole career, I try not to like break down what I think about each individual aspect because nothing really like. I love the cumulative like hole that all of it. that this life gives me. Do I like certain parts of touring? Yeah.

Do I, are some of it, like, some of it's awful, yeah. And like, so it's like, um,

well, it constricts you. Yeah. Touring is not like total freedom. Touring is, you're on a schedule every day. Yeah. It's groundhogs day every day.

The shows are great for the hour and a half you play. Yeah. And everything else is kind of just like a box. You have to stay in. You can't just run around and do whatever you want. That's kind of cool. That's kind of cool for me because I'm such a, I'm, I'm such a space.

at in normal life. So touring is like my one opportunity to have like a regimented schedule. And what I really like about it is that like I'm very much like affected by like the American way of like, oh, I'm being productive and so my brain feels good. That type way. But like I hate working, right? So touring is like the one opportunity where I can sit in a car for like 10 hours and that's my job for the day. And so in my, I'm tricking my brain to be like, I'm at work. I literally have to get from freaking Vancouver to LA and Examondays.

So I get the serotonin or whatever the hell from sitting in a car or feeling productive and I get to space out. It's like the ultimate, it's like my dream. Like I love that. Like everyone asked me what my favorite part about touring is and it's literally just sitting in the car tearing out the window

and feeling like well, someone's forcing me to be here but I'm doing nothing. and then being productive at the same time. It's freaking awesome. Yeah. My job to stare off into nothing. Yeah.

Then we get to the venue, then load in sound check. I hate sound checking. It's like every night. So do I? Like when I were after. I used to never go to Soundcheck. Oh,

that's awesome. That's my dream. That's where I want to get to you. I used to just not go. That's sick. That's very cool movie. And then it became a thing. Yeah.

Phil doesn't sound checking. Yeah. Now I do actually. Now I actually, all these years later, I actually appreciate sounds like. Would you go? on stage and your mixes would be fucked sometimes?

I just never thought about my mix. Wow, that's cool. I never used any ears. Really? Yeah. Damn. I just was a different animal when it came to like precision. I didn't really care about the mix.

I didn't know what a good mix was, what a bad mix was. Wow. If I can hear myself, you get to a point where like the, the monitor guy knows you. And they were your guys. Yeah, they were on tour with you for long enough where, but I never gave them notes. and they must have been I don't know if it was the best job to work with me or the worst job

because I know they care about what they do did you get like a standard mix being like y'all know what I kind of like just do that yeah that's cool and then everybody else used in ears but me and Benj we would just use my brother we were right next to each other on stage and we just had

we each had two monitors and I always thought it was more it was hard for me within ears because I tried them once and I was like I'm never doing that again. Because you felt separated from the audience. Yeah, you feel like you're in your own head.

Yeah. And when you have just monitors, you can hear the crowd. Yeah. And it just feels more like you're in the room. Yeah. So I'm the exact opposite. Like I, like, I'm such an introvert. I had such bad stage fights.

That was like my biggest hang up. Like the whole stuff, like I got my fan base during COVID. So the first show I ever played, the first show is ever played were all sold out. So I never got the, where was your first show? show. First show was at Subterranean in Chicago. Okay. And we did, so we did two of those. And it was really strange because that it's like, that's a 400 cap room. And I was like, I had like over a million followers on TikTok at that point, but like music wasn't quite at the fan base that it is now. Right. So I was like kind of like, I was like internet famous to a lot of people. Um, but I was playing like this

small room and the green room was just like a curtain and like it didn't have like a private bathroom or anything so I feel like I might have been more famous than bands that normally sell out that venue just because I had the whole TikTok thing and I like really don't

vibe in like crowds or whatever like talking to people and stuff. Yeah you get freaked out I get real freaked out yeah how do you get freaked out? I describe it as like if you and I were at a restaurant, like a noisy restaurant with a bunch of people talking around us, I would hear all the conversations at different tables.

Yeah, going on at the, or at least at the same volume. I can't really block that out unless I have like a couple beers or cocktails or something. So when I was like playing those first shows, it was like just kind of like a wall of like vibes going back and forth and I completely dissociate like I played him but I I didn't have too much fun um and then as soon as we started like going to the more kind of like appropriate size venues for the amount of people that were going there um I got any years in and I was like oh this fucking rocks like oh my god I can just totally like being actually be in my own head yeah do the show you know pop and and and so the first shows we did I was like it was like there might as well have been a wall

between like me and the audience i did that sort of like strategically and now this past time i'm comfortable enough to the point where i can i'll pop out in here uh just to like catch a vibe with the audience or whatever and um it's become a much more comfortable hybrid but those first first couple um first couple runs were pretty difficult for me um now it's chill now now it's like i don't get nervous at all which is great how many shows do you do on like each leg of your tour um i did 14 last time. Yeah. So it's like a little 20-day run.

I saw you did the 930 club. Yeah. That's where I'm from. Really? That was my favorite venue and favorite show to ever play. It's a great venue. It was awesome. It was great.

Yeah. I loved it. And like I love it when like a city will surprise you. Because I had no notion of like what D.C. was like other than just like the White White House is there and like a bunch of politicians walking around. Yeah. So to go play a sold-out show there. Like I can't believe and then have everyone as hyped as they.

or it was just like a really special feeling that's my favorite thing yeah it was really cool and the people were great um that and like carborough north carolina or like two favorite shows i've ever played it was awesome USA yeah how do you feel how do you feel about like how it's how it's done you feel happy yeah it feels like it's done really well yeah it's like it's like it's like it's like did i did i put something out that i'm really proud of and i'm not even a better spot than i was beforehand and I can answer yes to all these questions awesome there's the song that I love on that album is fuck off freedom to fuck up yeah yeah yeah it's so good that's what we were just talking about with the financial security thing too it's just like the paradox and yeah with that

all thing weird right yeah yeah that's my favorite one I think I've ever written during that eight years that you were really like struggling to figure it out um were you're parents supportive or were they like what the fuck are you doing they were really supportive in the sense that like you know my mom always over worries about me right and i've had to like it's it's only it's because she loves me so much you know and it's great yeah um and as i've gotten older i've been like i've been able to separate it's just like oh she's just being a mom and shit you know i mean it's we've grown past the point where we can really give each other you know career advice she's in Like what, yeah.

But she's always been super supportive. Just like let me do my thing, including like get seas in high school. Like I never felt any. Yeah, I was pretty terrible in school. Yeah. And they were, they were totally chill about that. And yeah, I mean, I've never felt anything but support. The emotional support from either my folks.

That's nice. Yeah. Do you have siblings? Yeah, I've got a little sister and a big sister. Oh, cool. Yeah. The middle boy. Yes.

So you're a gentleman. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Two sisters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like sisters make us, they,

I don't know, having a sister, I feel like it's a good thing. Yeah, I'm happy about it. Yeah. I'm happy about it. Are you married?

No, I'm engaged. Oh, you're engaged. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you. Thanks. Nice. Yeah, I'm stoked on it.

I'm really excited. Is she creative? Yeah. We're in her company. She doesn't, she doesn't, she doesn't, it's a 10 fish company.

called Fish Wipe. What is it? It's like she makes tinned fish, like sardines. Oh, cool. Salmon and stuff. Yeah. She loves fish. Like, yeah, I guess so.

Yeah. I have to make a company about it, but. Do you guys eat a lot of fish? I do. Yeah. I'm like on this whole new, like, workout thing. So I'm always looking for like quick ways to get protein stuff. So I eat like a fish can a day and then go out to the gym.

Protein is the key for putting on muscle. I know. I've been struggling with my whole life. Yeah, it's hard to get enough protein. We're supposed to get like a gram per. pound. Yeah. Which feels so unrealistic.

It's impossible. I did a free session with one of the trainers at the place I go to and the amount of protein that I was saying I had to eat today to like, it's like I'd have to become a professional eater. Just to keep your muscle, it's this much. To gain muscle, it's this much. Yeah. Feels impossible.

But I think I know they're right because when I was like really focused on being fit in my, I was probably your age when I was in like the best shape of ever been in. it was a lot of protein. It was like four times a day, it's like a job. Yeah. Eating protein. It's like you're another job. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. I don't have time for another job right now. I just do the best I can. How did you guys meet? We met at ICM. Oh, cool. So she was an assistant.

So I was like, you know, stroll past her every day. Had a big crush on her. How long did you take you to say hi? Oh, we said high right away. We're like homies. Yeah. But I was just like in love with their watching. I worked there.

We didn't get together until COVID. So like six, seven years later. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. We just kept in touch and stuff. That's, that's sweet.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's the best thing in my life. Mine too. My wife is, I've been with her for 17 years since she's the best thing

that ever happened to me. Hell yeah. It's cool when you can figure that part out. Oh, totally. It takes a lot of pressure off to some of the work stuff too. Yeah. Because I give, the majority of the,

what, keeps me gone. It's just like my life outside of the music stuff. Yeah. It's hiking with her. It's living. You know what I mean? You guys hike a lot?

Oh yeah. All right. Where do you hike? Or where are some of the spots? I don't want to give away your favorite spot if you don't want to be bothered by people. But I go on solo hikes and Altadena all the time. Just because it's close to where I live. But we go to Ohio like all the time.

Oh hi is awesome. Like a day trip to Ohio. My favorite thing in the world to do with her is to go. all day hiking in Ohio, and then we'll go to the Ohio Valley in for a cocktail at the bar. Yeah, go on a hike and then drink. Yeah, that's a perfect day. And then if we can get home, good time and watch a movie, then that's like the trifecta. I love Ohio.

Yeah, it's awesome. Have you ever hiked up in Santa Barbara? Yeah. I love Santa Barbara. Yeah. The punch bowls hike in Santa Barbara. Yeah. Really, really cool.

Really cool. Santa Barbara is awesome for all that stuff. Yeah. I'd move up there tomorrow if I could, but. That's where I want to retire. I mean, if I ever retire, that's where I would retire. Yeah. Santa Barbara's the shit.

Yeah, it's so nice. We go up there whenever we can. Well, you get those like Central Coast vibes that I really, really love. Yeah. Without necessarily like being in it. And then you can just like bob down to L.A. Anytime you want it if you need to do a meeting or whatnot or go a new fancy restaurant or whatever you like. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's pretty ideal zone. Yeah. And there's some fancy stuff up there too. Yeah. But it feels like. I don't know. It feels like it's a little bit of a time capsule because there's not a ton of development and stuff happening up there. I don't think it'll ever happen up there. And the ocean's right there. It's really nice.

What's a week like for you? Do you have like a schedule? Do you keep for like making videos or do you keep it pretty loose? I keep it pretty loose. Yeah. I mean, I kind of just like my one of my managers has been my best friend since we're in first grade. That's cool. And we make all the videos together too. So it's kind of like on Monday morning. I wake up at like 10, 10.30. He wakes up around the same time. What time do you go to bed?

I try to go to bed and sleep at all, but it doesn't happen a lot. I'm like an insomniac. So you stay up all night. Yeah. But then I'll finally like pass out at around like four or five when I can't sleep. And I'll sleep until 11. And I'll feel fine.

I mean, that's good like works for me. but if I have to be up for something at like 8.30 or 9, then I just, like, won't sleep the night before. And I'm pretty functional the next day, but a couple rounds of that, I start looking a little worse for wear. What do you think it is? Just internal dialogue, just can't shut off.

And it's not even, like, bad stuff. It's, like, good stuff a lot of the time, too. I just get, like, hyped on ideas and have, like, conversations in my head and songs stuck in my head and all that stuff. It makes it hard to go to bed. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

Feels a little crazy. Well, in a good way. But like when I, when I watch your videos and when I listen to your songs, I definitely hear someone that's talking to themselves about something. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And even in your videos, they're funny, but I feel like, is that, I was wondering today when I was thinking about talking to you.

I was like, I wonder if those sketches are happening every day, all day long, and how do you turn it off and how do you not just yeah get like completely sidetracked in an idea of a sketch when you're getting a coffee and someone says something right and then you're like you start having one of those sketches happen in your head and that's how i like to imagine yeah what the inside of your brain feels like well i'm i'm very i dissociate a lot so i'm very dissociative so if i have to like Like I don't go to coffee shops to get coffee because I don't like all the stimuli that goes along with like being in a coffee shop. So you make it at home? Yeah.

Yeah. I'll try and do whatever I can at home. So I just like don't have to like go to the grocery store like any of that shit. It just tweaks me out. I don't like a garden. We got a nice backyard. It's cool. You grow your own food?

No. I wish out that. Yeah. Sometimes. Right. And then. Yeah. My fiance does a lot of the shopping.

Okay, she doesn't mind. Yeah, no, not at all. Okay. Not all. But yeah, and a lot of like, I don't know. Yeah, I guess I just, when you have that much internal dialogue going on and then you get in a conversation with someone, I think I start to go on like autopilot and my brain will just like, I'll just start saying words that like from context clues I know will

just get the job done to get me through the conversation. Yeah. But then I'll like become aware of that. And sometimes I'll just like completely like leave my body. and the most mundane conversations. Yeah. And yeah,

it's just like, are you, are you, are you, ADHD person? I'm sure. I never got tested for any of that stuff.

Right. Just I think like when I was a little kid, my mom didn't want me to be like medic on medication or anything. Right. Or like that type of stuff. And it's just like, I'd probably

rather like go on with a excitement for life than just like be dosed with meth every day. kind of live. Yeah. Yeah. Or being labeled. Like, it sees. Like, who cares?

You know? So she was good about that. But I never got like a clinical, um, diagnosis for, for anything. And I, I'm happy about that because I don't know. I don't know. I kind of like, uh, not. Well, you kind of know you are.

You kind of know you are already. I don't think, I think there's this like spectrum that we're all on. Yeah. That like I'm AD, ADHD. I've had to learn how to like, uh, function. Mm-hmm. And I have. And it still gets in the way sometimes.

Like, there's no way that if I get left in charge that anything in the routine is going to be done. Like, it's so funny getting in trouble for forgetfulness. Yeah. Because like, yeah, my excuse is, yeah, I fucking forgot. And it wasn't my choice. If you could remember, you would. Yeah.

Yeah. There is, that's the hardest part to explain. I was thinking about something else. And I didn't want to be thinking about it either. I would much rather have been present and made up a better decision. And it can be overwhelming. Oh, yeah. I've learned how to like manage it.

But I'm 12 years older than you. So at your age, I was still in the throes of like coming to terms with it and going, okay, no. Some of it I need to like contain and direct it at certain things. And some of it I need to try to figure out how I work. And it's not how everyone else works. Right. And like over like 10 or. 11 years, I started to figure out, like, better ways for me to do it versus anyone else.

Yeah. And, like, it's more like idiosyncratic. And I think, like, I got it to a place where I can function way better than I used to. Because I think in music, you know, and we were in a music career and it was just kind of, there's a part of it that feels chaotic. It just feels like nothing makes sense and it's super chaos. And I think part of that kind of calms your ADD. Yeah.

And some of it inflames it. Yeah. So it's hard to, but it's very hard to explain to someone like, oh, I didn't think of that. I forgot. Or that's just not something my brain will ever retain. Right. I made some lifestyle changes that like catered to the, to the way that my brain works in a way that allowed me to feel productive and be productive for the first time. So it's like, I think it's about like finding the sweet spot between making those changes and then fixing the stuff that doesn't allow you to be like a part of like regular society at all or like maintain like healthy relationships with friends and and family and stuff so it's it's interesting to you know you pick which ones you really really want to like maybe like be uncomfortable with um for a little bit so long as

it doesn't sacrifice your creative output um and then there's stuff that you just have to be like this is the way i am this is the way that i work i know it probably sucks to be around, but it's the only way that I'm going to be able to make any money at all. So, yeah, kind of like that. Like, I know that that's the game. Sleeping until 11 gets me, it works for me, you know. It's the only way that I can have enough energy to be able to, like, write sketches and songs. And that's my job.

That's what I do. But I know that there's probably going to be a certain point where, like, I can't sleep until 11 every day. because I have to do this project or this thing. So it's like I'm going to have to work at this. I'm going to have to figure out how to fix this thing. Yeah, but you will when you need to. Right. That's the thing I've learned is you have kids and then suddenly you do find yourself getting up early.

And it's not a problem. Yeah. Because you want something more. Yeah. That's what the freedom to fuck off is about, that last stanza, where it's, um, It's like talking about rejecting all notions of like organized, like, structured life, but still wanting to make money. And then reaching the conclusion, it's like, so what do I want? I want to be a real man.

I want to be a father. I'm tired of thinking about me. I think I need to worry about a daughter. So being able to put all your needs aside just to focus on this one other person and then you both are better because of it. But that, yeah, that's largely like the theme of like, the whole record. And that song is kind of like the centerpiece of everything. It's true. Well, I mean, as artists, like, we can be self-obsessed.

Yeah. We can be, like, trapped in our head. And I don't think just artists. I think people, like most people have an interpersonal relationship and dialogue going on all the time. And they're not artists. Right. But it's something like getting outside of ourselves. it's why like in if you if you know anything about like a a programs for people who are who suffer

from addiction number one thing is be of service and gratitude which is just like get outside of yourself you you you have this affliction with yourself and getting outside of that and focusing on someone else gives you this relief right i don't think it's just for people with addiction I think it's a through line for people. Acts of service and gratitude are like two of the most powerful things we can do to get outside of ourselves. It's funny because when you're suffering from anxiety or depression, they say like the number one thing you can do first is move your body, go out and do something physical. Yeah. And get back into your body and do something good for you and make you feel a little better.

But I think our artistically, especially your. art, you benefit from being in your head. Yeah. That's, that's, that's something that, the, the, the, I struggle with that idea a lot. But it'll be a struggle because your livelihood is actually being who you are. Right. Being in your head. Yeah.

So you're, and likely a thing that whether you looked at it as a weakness or not, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if people said, oh, you get terrible grades. Mm-hmm. And you're not, it doesn't feel like I could imagine if I just, imagine the kid who's in Chicago, who's got C's, who's, you know, loves music, likely not getting a ton of trophies for this kind of achievements at that age. Like, you know, there's the kids that are the superstar, whatever, like, they're the dancer, they're the theater, they're the sports kid. They're the math, math elite, the spelling bee champ. And like, I was kind of the same. Like, I wasn't really good at anything.

Yeah. And you wouldn't have even said I was good at singing or making art. Like I was just a very average, like, bad grade kid who didn't seem to have, like, a ton of drive, except me and my brother started a candy business when we were in middle school. And we were making, like, hundreds of dollars a week selling candy. Oh, damn. And we were really into it. Like homemade candy?

No, we would just go buy bulk candy from, like, the store. They'd have those bulk candy barrels. the grocery store where you could buy like penny nickel quarter or they no they would sell it by the pound so you would just scoop the candy in there would be like jolly ranchers or like volley pops or whatever right and then we would buy like candy bars and we'd have different sizes and then we would sell like every week we would come with a variety of this is what we have this week and we would sell things for like a quarter a dollar a dollar a dollar You had that entrepreneurial spirit for the young age.

And we loved it. It was the, it was, it still stands out to me as like probably the best three months of my, like, youth. Yeah. And then we got busted. Yeah. After, like, three months. We were just making money hand of her fist. Yeah.

And they shut us down, got kicked out of school. We had to go and, like, beg to be back in school. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it was terrible. Just for living the American dream. And that's the thing, though, is you would think, like, we weren't hurting anyone. Yeah. And it was this, it turned into like this terrible experience.

My parents were upset and my grades were already bad. But I remember I bought my first pair of Jordans and I was so proud of that, of those shoes. Yeah. That was probably like my shining moment in like that I did something, accomplished something. I bought those shoes and I had cash. That's cool. Yeah. I didn't have that probably until I sent that first record deal.

But I don't know. because I've been so in my head for all of it. I never had anything like bring me out of it. If you can survive eight years in L.A. On, you know, not making money and figuring it out, like you can survive anywhere because it's the toughest town when it comes to like not having a lot of money and being able to like navigate this place and still retain your self-esteem. Yeah.

It can be really hard. Yeah. Yeah, it sucked. When I moved here, it was on our third record. And where are you all? You are still in D.C.? Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, and I was in D.C. actually, before I moved here, I lived there. I grew up in Maryland. I remember moving here and thinking, God, I feel like such a loser. And I had had success.

But it's such a big, overwhelming town. Yeah. There's always going to be a richer guy, a guy with more hits, a more famous guy, a better looking guy, somebody who grew up here and with a family name. There's just so much greatness or perceived greatness that anyone could come here and feel if you have any self-esteem issues, you can come here and feel really bad about yourself. The thing that I think probably challenged you your whole life, being in your head, is your strength. It's the thing that generates all your success.

Yeah, and it made everything else make sense. And it made like the stuff that I struggled with when I was a kid make a lot more sense, which I like helped too. But it's just like if you were told my like my fifth grade teacher that I make a living by coming up with imaginary conversations in my head and then writing songs where I like write all the parts in my head, like all that stuff, it would be like, oh, well, that makes sense that you weren't paying attention to anything, you know. You were practicing.

Yeah, for sure. And that just didn't materialize until I was 29. So, um, in perfect time though. Oh, totally. Yeah. I wouldn't rather done it any other way. And it allows me to just like have so much gratitude for what's going on right now too. So that's awesome. It's really awesome. It is awesome. I'm only real, I'm only sitting here kind of like that's how I think is I always want to make things make sense to me. Yeah. And, um, and I want and I also like truly at the core, I want to help people help make sense of their life. Yeah. And of themselves. And I want to. And I want, and I also like, truly at the core,

of themselves. Yeah. And because I think, I always think about when someone's listening to these conversations, because likely people listening to this know you, right? Mm-hmm. They enjoy what you do. But there's a lot more they can get from you than that. Yeah.

Because I think we only get to be ourselves. Mm-hmm. We don't get to, some people make a life out of trying to be someone else, which is, and some of those people succeed, and that's what they are become good at. Yeah. But a lot of people end up in like kind of a cycle of confusion. And I think that like making sense of ourselves in how we think and how we operate and then looking, being able to analyze ourselves and then make and not completely overhaul anything. Yeah.

But refine some things. We can become better versions of ourselves. I think that's like the work we have to do in life. Yeah. And so I love having conversations with people like you, like people that are really successful. successful creatives. I know from experience, my experience, really successful creatives have found a way

to be themselves and channel what everyone thought was the reason that they would never make it. Sure. Yeah. Is the reason they made it. Yeah. Because they've just learned how to be themselves. Yeah.

And exist in this, on this planet as a unique individual. Mm-hmm. It would be very hard for anyone else to replicate. what you do. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. And it happened during COVID when I was having zero human interaction. Probably you enjoy. Oh, yeah, I fucking loved it. Yeah. But yeah, it's cool. It's cool. Do you want to be a dad one day? Oh, yeah, totally. Cool. Yeah. And I didn't. I didn't for so long. Fun. But I'm, I totally like changed my tune. I think that when you, it really takes finding the person that you want to do that. 100% and to me I'm I'm stoked that like it wasn't just uh just sort of like a lifelong dream

and it's just something that I'm like very very like newly stoked on because because I've you know share my life with this person um and that to me seems like the the I don't know I'm just kind of stoked on that it's it makes it up very exciting um because it's specific to like an individual yeah It's almost like a magnetic force. That's when it's the most fun too. Yeah. I've had a lot of fun with having kids, but it's because of the person. Yeah.

You know, she's the responsible adult. In my mind, she really does, like, have a good idea of how the general stuff should be. Yeah. All the stuff that I don't think about decorating our house. I just think, oh, this is cool. That's cool. Yeah. Or it's nice here.

Yeah. But I don't have a better idea than she does on like a lot of stuff. School. They didn't really care where they went to school. Because it just never, school just never really mattered to me. Yeah. Just didn't seem important to me. Yeah.

And I know it is. For some people, it really is. So I'm glad she has a good idea on like a lot of the key stuff. Yeah. Totally. I just, I, it's fun to think of. bet as like a really incredible opportunity you know yeah to be able to you know hope you know

hopefully be able to create someone who's half this person yeah that's really really neat to me it's a it's a crazy concept it's so fine it's like the most like the most normal thing to do is the most like far out thing that I could ever think about happening uh do you think the music uh career uh do you see it just going and going uh yeah it's it's hard for me to see anything going and going so no but i i trust that it well you don't think too far ahead i don't think far ahead at all yeah i think it's so good oh thank you thank you like i like i'm like right now all i i'm thinking about is like i know i'm going to do another record uh so you're already kind of so i'm thinking about i'm imagining it i'm getting kind of like the mental pieces in in place uh and

And that's all I can think about right now. But I'm stoked as how I was like so, so excited to do another one. But that's all I have the capacity to think about. Right. Yeah. What's your favorite sketch you've ever done? Do you have one? Yeah.

I have a couple. There's some of them that just like, you see it when it's done and it's like, oh, we nailed that. That's exactly what I thought. Yeah, because like we put out so many. We put out less now because I'm so busy. touring and the album rollout and stuff. But when we were really doing them, like three, four times a week, we made this rule. It's like 80% and it's done. We're putting this out tonight no matter what.

We're going to start, today, finish it today, yada. So I would like, I'd do it all in my notes app, and I'd write out the dialogue to be like paced and timed out like for a minute to the best of my ability. And I'd nail it sometimes. And Will, the guy that I deal it with would nail the editing sometimes and um but sometimes i would like write too many lines of dialogue and sometimes he would like pause for a middle second too long on an edit none of these issues are a big enough deal to to try and fix it it's like we'll do another one tomorrow who cares yeah and then there's some times where we just hit the sweet spot in both and it's and it's perfect and like the pacing and that was perfect and to me um i think that we did one with some cordhole boards versus just like a half

a guy who got cut off and he was stuck in the cornhole boards and like sticks and he's like his last uh his last dying wish was just pull a prank on his friends so he throws the bag he throws the bag out of the hole um and that that's my favorite one i think the cornhole yeah the half half a guy in the cornhole board yeah i wrote an original piece of music for that one specifically and i called it bags theme because cornhole's we call it bags in chicago and so i called that bag steam and i actually put that on that's a leading track for USA called Bags theme and just didn't change the name

but yeah that's like my favorite thing that we've ever done so that's like another thing that's like how the world's kind of inform each other a little bit yeah but yeah I do like that one a lot I like the train one

oh the one we just did yeah that one was fun too that was funny that was like I that was a really on the spot one because we went there to originally do the one with I watched the show Godless yeah where the guy keeps being like, I've seen my death.

And so I thought it would be funny if the guy had seen his death, but it was just because he was like eight, chose to eat 17 balloons. So we went out there in Altadina to film that one. And we had like a bunch of time, just to kill, I guess. And we were just chilling in that zone. I thought the outfits were funny. Yeah.

And then we were just like, try to write another one real quick. So I just took 30 minutes and, I don't know how that poached in my head. I haven't thought about train in like years. I just think they're a funny band. Yeah. And I just thought of, I don't know. Well, it's a great play on it.

Do you ever think about writing like movies or TV? Yeah. I think about it. A lot of people are thinking about it for me. I'm probably thinking about it more than I am. Yeah. But yeah, I just like writing sketches so much. It's hard for me to branch out and think about it.

about things in a more like long form way. Right, right. When you're writing an album, you can sort of like compartmentalize into song by song by song. It's really hard for me to think about like a movie out once, but totally, I'm not going to say like... You would probably like be really good in like a cohort of like a couple writers.

Yeah. Right? Like you guys could all just play. I'm like, y'all do big picture. Let me dial on the dialogue. Yeah. Make that super funny. I'd be able to do something like that pretty well.

We've always got like ideas flowing back and forth. Like, of course I'm thinking about it. be done for me not to but um well yeah i don't know i like that stuff i was i did a scene in a movie i was acting in a movie recently yeah what is it it's called sitting in bars with cake um and that was it was an amazon movie i don't know i had so much fun doing it it was like a 15 hour day i said six lines yeah holy shit i was like looking at the girls who were starting the movie i was like you have to do this every day oh my god it's long days yeah acting is long days i couldn't do it i have a lot of respect for actors and actresses uh i told i i didn't i don't think i processed what was going on or what

it took and then it's just yeah again i was just like i'm fucking exhausted it's hard work you got to come back tomorrow oh my god and they have to like prepare for these movies yeah they have to get in shape in different ways for different roles and yeah all the the pre-production and the preparation they have to do it just feels so overwhelming to me that anyone could spend that much time getting ready for that. Everyone talks about famous actors being like, like, you know, there's always like, hearsay about this guy being an asshole is because being an asshole is like, no, it's like, all right, whatever.

Like now, now I know what, like the shit sucks. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. Like they're making a lot of money, but like. And people kind of dismiss things so easily. Yeah. So I think you get in music too. You get a little bit jaded and a little bit kind of, I think, cynical or bitter.

when something that you put so much time and energy and work into gets kind of just dismissed. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, this movie came out during the writer's strike and whatnot. So, I mean, I was, I had so much fun with it. It was one day, no one day, it was getting off my back or whatever. But there was people who worked on this thing for like so long and they couldn't even like, you know, it couldn't even have like a premiere for it or promoted in any way. I was thinking about that. I was like, damn. I bet there's some people who are kind of sad about this. How do you like doing promo for music?

Oh, I hate it. Yeah. Yeah. Tough. I hate it. There's a whole lot of people who hate that. I hate it, too. Everybody hates it.

Well, it's tough because you need to do it, I guess. Yeah. Right? It's always the worst part of putting an album out is promoting it. Yeah. Because you're going somewhere to promote this thing on someone else's platform, right? I mean, you could say you're, you're here to promote your record. I don't feel like this is a promo type show, but we promote things

inherently here. Yeah, yeah. It's natural to talk about what we've worked on. But you go to do a TV show or you do an interview with a magazine. And I'd say like I'm, I wouldn't say that this is a majority or this is the rule. But when people are cycling through a place and they're promoting things every day, it just feels like they don't care. Yeah. The whole thing feels like unnaturally. I have a particularly, I think, interesting ecosystem, like within my own social media stuff, too, because so many people follow me for the comedy videos. Like the way that I've been able to acquire fans is to have comedy videos go viral to get new fans on social media and for like fucking 1% of them to figure out that I do music.

And then once I figure out to do music, it's an even smaller percentage that like it. because obviously music taste is so subjective and everything. So it's hard. You don't want to alienate people who follow you for a certain thing and then force them to like something subjective by just batten them over the head with that. Right. The way that I think I've been able to sell out 930 Club

and have everyone screaming the lyrics is because they found me through this vessel that is like the comedy stuff. But even in that, it's a bit organic. It's totally organic. The ones who want it can get it. The ones who don't, you're finding it. And they could feel cool about it because I didn't really, like, force them into it, you know?

Like, they found it. I try and make it as easy as possible for them to find it. And, of course, when I'm writing a record or releasing a song or coming out with a music video or something, I'm going to tell people to listen to it, it's all I can do it. But I'm not really playing the whole, I'm not playing, like, the standard, like, TikTok. social media game. Right. That I think that like I feel that though. I think I think most people I do think that there were in a time now where like people are generally

like we'll look at those kind of planted videos because they'll be like in your algorithm or something. Yeah. But the people you follow you I feel like these days you kind of follow people that it feels authentic. Yeah. And like they're just making stuff they like. Yeah.

And it's not too algorithmic. I feel like people have really learned that, learn that. So it kind of evolves. How many ideas do people bring to you? Like, hey, we want you to promote this. How much stuff do you turn down? Are you talking about from like the label side to promote my own shit? Or from brands or just how many people bring opportunities to you and go, we want to do this and we'll pay you this much and you have to turn it away because it's just not right for you.

With the brand stuff, I've always been like, oh, it's like kind of funny and super meta for me to like sell out in this way. And I think like people get it. So I've actually been like fortunate to like partner with some good companies that like understand that. Yeah. Well, you do it really well. When you do it, it doesn't feel like an ad. It's like, yeah. You're like, oh, I'll use that as a prop in one of my videos or I'll do something.

Yeah. Or smart around it or I'll do. But like, do you get a lot of bad ideas? No. Oh, okay. Yeah, I don't think so. That's cool. When we first started doing TikTok, there was a lot more inquiries because brands were figuring out like what it was, like how to use it. I think they were just like just throwing everything at it.

So I got like a couple requests. I did a couple of videos for some like financial service companies. And after the second one, I was like, I'm not fucking doing that again. It just didn't make sense. Yeah, yeah. But it was like whatever. You tried. And like people just like don't.

I don't know. I don't know. I just did one for Domino's and I love Domino's. Oh yeah. So it was like great. That's one of the best. And I think I felt kind of like, you know, I hadn't done one for a while. I still think Domino's is one of the best tastiest pizzas.

Yeah. Domino's is so good. So good. I wonder why. It's so good. They just, yeah, they just got it dialed. It's something about it. You think they just put a bunch of sugar in the cross or something?

Maybe. I don't know. Yeah. It's something. but I did one for Domino's. I was logged out of my own TikTok for like three and a half months because my manager had to change the password for some admin stuff and I just forgot to ask him before.

So I wasn't logged in. We did the Domino's ad. I thought it was funny. You know, we posted it like a week and a half before. And I was driving back from the beach with my fiance and I was like, oh, can you check out on my page? I put it at Domino's ad. Can you just like read me the hate comments around?

I just want, because I think they're funny sometimes. I just like, I just want to see what people are saying. She's going through it. She was just like, uh, just ordered dominoes. Uh, wow, you made dominoes look so good. Like all this stuff. It worked. There wasn't one hate comment at all.

It's a pretty safe brand do it with. Everybody likes dominoes. Also, it's a pretty, it's like, all my fans are like, you know, like 30 to like 45 years old. Yeah. And like at that point, if you're on the internet like trolling some for trying to make some money, it's like, come on. like curl the fuck up but uh everyone's kind of like get it's true get that bag yada yada yada um yeah so they're celebrating yeah i never feel weird about it if you like fuck off like yeah yeah it's

it's all good do you love pizza i love pizza yeah yeah what's your favorite pizza in l a i order from joe's pizza that plays from new york that i love jose's great i think they got us shot in santa monica in the valley that's really good but i just got out the road i haven't had a debit car in eight years, I think. Oh, wow. I just put everything on a credit card. I lost it, and I just never replaced it eight years ago. So I put everything on a credit card and then I paid off my phone.

Yeah. But as a result, I haven't, like, had cash for eight years. But my favorite food is, like, tacos and, like, the tacos truck. So I'm really excited because we just got off tour and we just get the venue buyouts every night. Yeah. So I have, like, $150 in cash for the first time. It's still a long. I'm just going to go crazy on tacos for the next month and a half, probably.

A lot of people do Apple pay now. yeah but all the really really good taco places i feel like are still in the cash only five like angels yeah they're still cash only and they're they're really really good so i'm gonna be hitting that a lot yeah yeah and we got to figure out a way to get cash i know like um like a you know you could set up uh uh you could set up a weekly uh um this is a thing i i learned about it i actually learned about for my wife because I was like, why do you get an envelope every week? And she was like, oh, you don't go to the ATM. And she goes, no, the bank can deliver cash.

Like you can have cash delivered. That's incredible. Somehow, some way. I love it. I'm going to research that for you. Another one of my favorite things is like, like, I go to the ATM. Yeah. I still like that.

I mean, I can't physically take money out of it because I don't have the debit card. You could order another debit card. Yeah. I could do that, but then I would have to... Then you'd have to go on the phone, wait. The process of ordering a debit card is the culmination of like, or pretty much our entire conversation. Yeah.

Like, you should know I can't do something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do think that having cash available is a, it's a luxury. Yeah. But it's one that I think you've earned. Yeah.

You should have cash available. Yeah. Yeah. you know always keep some cash on you i just went up to tahoe and i i i went for the weekend and i went by myself and i had lost my wallet um three days before this is like a month ago um so i was going up without a wallet and i just learned how to use apple pay so it's like proud of that so i was like all right everything's going to be fine don't have a wallet don't have an id don't have a driver's license I'm going to drive up to Tahoe.

And just to break up, it's like an eight-hour drive. So just to break it up, I was going to stop at Mammoth Lakes. My favorite place to swim out in the entire world is this one lake called Convict Lake. And you just like peel right off. But then you've got to drive like a couple miles inland. And I went and I was feeling really good. I was just like, I'm going to break up this. Drive you a nice like cold swim.

I had like my snorkel mask and everything. and I went swimming. It was an awesome swim. There was no one there. And my gas tank is like pretty much on empty, which you know, it just usually is. And so I go for a swim and then it's like

and put my clothes back on. I was like, damn, like I've made it with Apple Pay. Like everything's working out. The only thing I can't do is just like drop my phone in the water. And like as soon as I thought that, my phone was like in my hat. and I just like put my hat, I moved to put my hat on,

my phone just dropped in the water, touched, landed on the bottom, you know, three feet deep, the bottom of lake. I turned it out, I pulled it out, and I just thought like, oh my God, like this is the only thing keeping me alive right now. Like there's no one around.

I've got like no gas in my car. I don't know how to get to Tahoe. I can't like call anyone. So how does you survive? Well, I was waiting for it to Do that thing where it just like It just like breaks It's still worked

And so then I did a lap around the whole thing And turns out phones are just waterproof now I had no idea Yeah, which model do you have 14? The 10 But this is what it looks like It's so fucked up

That's okay I think from some model on They're waterproof up to a point So I had no idea So I was sitting there thinking like I guess I'm just gonna die here Because it's like What would be the plan of action

at that point. And then I didn't think of it until like a week later I was like, this is what I would have done. What would you have done? I would have gotten back in my car. Logical.

I would have driven, tried to make it to the nearest gas station. And then panhandle. Well, no, because I wouldn't do that. I'd have too much anxiety for that. But I would wait until like a dude

who listens to my shit, like that demographic. So it's just like, if they're like, a really straight looking white dude in their 30s and they like look kind of sad they're like definitely a fan of my stuff it happens like without fail 100% of time right we'll be like it's so funny we'll be like hiking in the middle of nowhere and there'll be like two gen z kids walking like nothing there'll be like a family vacationing from like India we'll walk past like nothing and then we'll see like a balding 39 year old

and i'm just like watch this oh my god pt um without fail, like every fucking time. It's so funny. But so I would sit at the gas station, wait for a guy to look like that, try my luck, be like, you know who I am? And if he doesn't, I'll be like, okay, this is going to be really weird. But like, can I see your phone? Like, look me up on Instagram.

I've got like fucking like 600,000 Instagram followers. I need you to fill out my, I have a truck too. So I need you to fill up my truck. It's going to cost $110. I'm not going to be able to pay you back for like five. days but if I don't pay you back in that five days I'll pay you like I'll pay you like I'll pay $300 if I don't pay you back in five days then you can like put me on blast whatever like cancel whatever the fuck you want to cancel me yeah yeah do whatever you want

if I don't pay you back it's a it's a risky bet yeah but it was it would be like my only means of survival at that point but in the middle of like no it was it was a middle of nowhere yeah and you'd have to remember to pay him back yes yeah I will I will I would. Do you Venmo? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

You'd pay him back. I would pay him back. I was like, send me a message on my Instagram right now being like, hey, this is my Venmo, this is everything, this is how much money you own me. I would, if it was me and I pulled up and you're there at the gas station and I know who you are and you're like, funny story, I'm out of gas. My phone's dead. I coasted into the gas station or maybe even my car is a mile away and I walked the rest

of the way, right? Yeah. But how would you have found it? that your iPhone and your maps right yeah um but i would have just been like i'll feel you guys take up that's really nice and then i would be like yeah if you don't have to pay me back oh that's so nice that's nice to know that the people like that exist are you stoked on the live shows on my live shows yeah oh yeah totally is it it is it is fine did you ever see it being what it is like did there was there any part of you that was like i think it's going to do well uh yeah

yeah i think you know i haven't been super surprised by anything which also feels good because I'm confident in it. Yeah. And the show is really, really fun. We put a lot of work into it. It flows really well. The players are great. I think the fans are really enjoying it. And it's nice because like when we're getting

into these 1,200 cap rooms, I really do feel like, I feel like I play like arena rock. There's like some aspects of that where like, you know, a lot of stuff's like real subby and some of the more like electronic stuff.

it like really sounds good in a big space in a way that it doesn't in like a 400 cap room and people sing along oh yeah everyone yeah so yeah don't tell the boys big sing along moment even the new stuff people are are really starting sing along that that makes me feel real good yeah don't tell the boys is good yeah that's like the one that's like the gateway California is good too yeah I like that one too I'm waiting for that one to be in like a title track in a movie or something or like a Or like the next like a cool YA show. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The next OC or whatever drama shows next. That's what's nice about now. It's like as soon as it's on the internet, it could be 20 years from now. But if it's right, someone will find a home for it. Cool. Yeah. But yeah, love playing live.

You know, which is great because I used to not. But now I do. So it's great. When this airs, the second leg of the tour is starting. Yeah, I'm going to Australia. and February 1st through, I think like the 10th or something. Australia is, have you been there? No, never.

It's awesome. Yeah, so I'm kind of pinching myself. I think that's going to be fine. I started thinking about what it would be like to hold a claw the other day. It's like actually got like a little emotional. It's pretty, they're freaky. Yeah, yeah. They have like beady eyes.

Yeah. But they're really sweet, cute. Hell yeah. I don't know if they're sweet, but they're really cute and do. That's good enough for me. Going to the zoo in Sydney is pretty cool. Yeah, so I don't know what the recreation's going to be like. I know we got two off days, but like if I could use any amount of free time to just like

interact with nature or wildlife that I wouldn't normally get to be able to, that's like Australia, dude. That's it for me. You'll love it. Yeah. I've been going to Australia for 20 some years. Yeah. And it's like home away from home.

I love Australia. Oh, yeah. The routing's a little bit fucked. Like I think we're like flying into Melbourne. It's like 16 hours. And then the next day we fly five hours to Perth. Yeah, Perth is like on the other side. But it's the next day.

So like, all right. And then you're like, why are we doing this? And then it's just what you do. I'm like, okay, okay. Well, yeah, you got to get Perth out of the way either in the beginning. Yeah. Or you do it at the end. Gotcha.

But if you do it at the end, it's an even longer trip home. Gotcha. So if you're going to do Perth, you usually want to get up there, get Perth done because it's kind of on the edge. It's like the furthest. Perth is interesting. It's unbelievable. It's beautiful. The beaches are insane. Yeah. You do feel kind of like you're like on the edge of the earth. Yeah. It's like very far. Yeah. Unbelievable place. You'll love it. Hell yeah. They're like foods great. They have like wine. Australia is sick. I'm really excited.

Yeah. People are amazing. People are super friendly. You'll have a good time. And then do you have any time off in Sydney? You know what? I have to double check. I'm not sure. I think we have time off. to Hasmania, which is where the festival is. And I heard the high kids great over there. Yeah, yeah. I'm excited for that. Then we get back to 10 days rest and then go out for the second US leg. And that's like playing my biggest shows I've ever played on that one.

So amazing, dude. Yeah. Yeah, it's going to be fun. Congratulations. Thanks, dude. I'll be following. Right on. Thanks for coming and doing this.

Yeah, dude, thanks for having me. Great. Awesome. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of Artist Friendly. If you really liked it, you can follow, like, like, subscribe to the show anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support and we'll see you next time.