Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Prayers

Episode Date: February 3, 2023

From being jumped into a gang at 13 to becoming the genre-defining cholo goth icon he is today, Leafar Seyer of Prayers, also known as Rafa, sets the bar on what it is to be an artist on your own terms. He exudes street-level confidence and a sense of invincibility that comes not just from surviving being shot at and stabbed, but from beyond conscious awareness. In this episode, Rafa and Joel explore the double-edged sword of manifesting, working with controversial musical co-creators, and the special kind of art that comes from emerging out of survival mode into a place of intentional creative expression. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠Spotify.⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, it's Joel Madden, and you are listening to Artist Friendly from Alternative Press. And on today's episode, I'm talking to my friend Rafa from prayers. All right, Rafa. What's up, brother? What's up? Everything, baby. Everything's good. Everything's coming up, roses.

So I want to start the whole conversation off. I just want to start by framing one of the things I was, you're one of the people I was most excited to talk to. Thank you, brother. I personally just look at you as, and we've never actually met or hung out. You've met my brothers. We have a lot of actually people between us. But I'm a huge fan. I look at you as like this icon.

I think you're super, I just think you're this iconic guy. And maybe, you know, you probably couldn't say that about yourself, but as a person who's watched you, and seeing what you mean to music and to alternative music and to, I think just the culture as a whole, what you represent, everything that you are. I just see you as this, like, iconic artist. And that's very kind of you. So I'm stoked. You're here talking to me.

I'm happy to be here, you know, part of the team. Always down to be involved in whatever the family is doing, man. So when my boy Ryan hit me up, I was like, yeah, man, I'm there. Well, thank you. I'm stoked to talk to you. And I feel like we could start with where you're at today because it feels like this version of you is just like me. I think we evolve over our lives. And I think great people continue to live their life in transition and continually evolve.

And it feels like you're in this. amazing place today in your life. How do you feel like where you're at today, personally, musically, how did you get here? Because for me, it feels like you're, you as an artist, and prayers and everything that you've done and everything you're doing, it feels like it's just this constantly evolving, growing tree. But it also feels, feels like one of the things I'm probably the fan of it, it feels like you have zero rules. You're not asking permission from anyone to do anything. You're just living and creating.

How do you feel like you got where you're at today? The natural? There's a lot to unpack. I don't even know where to start. I think I got here by definitely just like following my passion. or the things that inspire me. I've always done things based on like what I want to experience out of life, you know, like even things that have been challenging. I was up for the challenge based on the experience, never really the outcome. So I don't really do things based on an outcome.

I just do it because like, you know, I want to be able to like know what it feels like to be on stage singing in front of people, you know, whether it's fucking 15 or 2000 or whatever, you know. It's interesting. I was talking to a friend of mine about manifestation, right? He's super into manifestation. I love manifestation. Yeah. I love it.

And it's, you know, I think a lot of people are, you know, I think when that book, what was it the the secret came out. I think a lot of people got introduced into manifestations. But I guess I've always wanted to do this, right? But I was unaware of it. And I, because at the time I was, when I was younger, it was more survival, right? I came here as an immigrant when I was four years old. My parents didn't speak the language.

So I was the first one in my family being the oldest to speak English. And then I became kind of like a translator between my parents and whatever else was happening. You know, whether it was landlords or you're paying bills or whatever. So for me, I was on survival mode always. So, but as a child, you have, you know, dreams, you know. And not too long ago, when my mother passed away, my sister found a shoebox, you know, that had a bunch of like drawings and photographs. There were my belongings, but I had forgotten about them.

Or there were my stuff that my mom collected of me as a child. And my sister asked me if I wanted it. I said, yes, picked it up. And I started looking through it. And there was all this stuff that I never even remembered. And there was a little drawing that I had drawn. And it was like a little stick figure. And I don't know how old I was when I drew this, right?

But it was obviously that I drew it. My name was on there. And this little stick figure is on a stage by himself with a microphone and there's all these little stick figures in front of him and on on top of it it says Hollywood you know so I had already like it was already in my subconscious you know I think as a kid I was already thinking like yo I want to do this but then the road that I was on and the the reality that I was living that wasn't something that was accessible at the time so I think I just put it away and forgot about it, did that drawing, but obviously I had created a sigil, right? And not only had I

created a sigil, but it was a seed that was in my subconscious mind for, you know, decades, because I didn't start early, you know, I'm 47 years old. You know, I started when I was doing music 10 years ago when I was 37. I'm a Lake Bloomer, you know, and it's crazy that, you know, I had drawn this thing of me being a singer and on stage went about my life. And then, you know, 37 years later, I'm actually doing it. And now here I am with you having this conversation about it. So fucking awesome, dude. It confirms with me why that's, to me, that's, I, I, I'm telling you right now,

I see iconic people and I go, why are they so, you're not. trying to be anything but what you are. It's the through line I see. I've been lucky enough to be around so many iconic people. And there's this through line. They're not trying to be. And they wouldn't call themselves either. And I say, I call it out because that's just who I am. I'm such a fan of special. And what I see when you tell me that story is it reaffirms what I believe that everyone has potential. Human potential is a thing. Yeah, and I mean, for me, for example,

like I was always around like really amazing, you know, musicians. And I myself don't really consider myself a musician. I consider myself more of a magician in the sense where I just make things happen, you know. And I go about it in a way that's very true to myself and true to my nature. I don't really come from like I didn't go to school to learn how to do these things, you know, how to produce or how to write songs. And I'm around these amazing people now that I'm like, oh, wow, you studied this, you know, and you work at this.

I don't. Mine is completely instinctual. Yep. You know, it's all instinct. It's very primitive the way that I do things, you know. I come from, you know, a lot of it is just me trying to understand or explore. my self-identity more than anything. It's more, I'm in like this journey of self-exploration and self-awareness.

And I do it through whether it's painting, whether it's writing, whether it's, you know, making music, all of it, you know, allows me to look into my own self, if that makes any sense, you know? So I don't really, I don't really, can't really explain it, but I do know that hasn't failed me yet, you know, and everything that I've done, it's always, I've just, I just follow that inner voice. Yeah. It's a, it's, I see it as just a raw, unconscious, um, uh, like you said, instinct, instinctual, um, but to me, it feels very authentic as opposed to, and there's a lot of different ways to get there so people can go to school to learn music and and that's a listen if i had i feel like

if you had the opportunity if i had the opportunity to go to school when we were younger for this we would have because but i think what happens is you're this um creative force right and at a young age you don't know what you are you're just alive and and you're growing up and you're so as a kid you play right And as creatives, I think the key to our creativity is to play and to have to do things we think are interesting, cool, fun, whatever. But as a kid, you play, you create. No one's telling you, you're alone a lot of the time as a kid where no one's telling you that that's not possible or that what's the point of that or why would you do that? And then at some point the reality of life, it hits you because your your environment does, it's such an influence on you from a certain age to a certain age, right?

So I think like whatever that reality is was for you. I know that you, you, from what I understand, you grew up in a place where it was tough for people. And so you were hit with that reality, the same way I think I was hit with the reality of life in the way of like my parents fell apart when I was, you know, an early age, money was always a thing, was always an obstacle. Everything was just like, we were always $50 short from something we really needed. It was really tough. And I think that was the reality that hit me having to move, like, we talked about this. Moving all the time gave me a lot of triggers around moving. So I have all this things like when when my wife is like, okay, so it's been 67 years and I think it's time to, you know, think we're going to sell this house.

And I always like emotionally fall apart for a second because like I get dug in because I didn't have a place to. And I think that I also think it's why it made me really good at touring from a young age when I left home at 18 and never stopped touring basically until the thing that brought me back down to earth maybe. or back to wanting to be in one place with my kids. And then that was like, that being said, back to, I think reality hits us and stops our creative growth for however long until it finds us. And maybe for you, it was in your 30s. But to be honest, like, I don't think you can put a timeline or an expiration date on creativity and on art.

And I think what you have created is, you know, I said iconic, but also it's really important. Because I actually think that like what you're building in the world is the story of a person who, you know, when you say you came here as an immigrant. Yeah. And I just got my green card last. year. Unbelievable. Like December 24th of 2021. That to me is an important layer, an important thread in the cloth that you're, that you're weaving with your life.

You know, obviously you're a father, right? You have. Father first, you know. Father, me too. I feel that way too. Father first. So there's all these layers, right? To this, to your story that also.

also goes into the art. So the idea that you're going to continue, so the idea to me that you're going to create your best art is ahead of you, is real to me. Because I think like the part of us that has to get comfortable and actually see ourselves as creators and as artists, it takes a long time before. Because also I think, and you probably can relate to this, Where I came from, like, no one takes it seriously. It's not a real thing you do. It's not important. Why would you do that?

Like, I didn't discover that, like, what I do, that I take it seriously. Right. That I take myself seriously. Just in the last few years probably, I came to that. You know, I'm 43. So just in my 40s, I think, where I started taking myself, actually what I'm making is just as important as anything anyone else is making. And even if only just for me, for my healing, for my own self-worth, for my own self-esteem, my own

my, I don't get to be anyone else in the world. It's get to be me. It is very important because like, I mean, you know, I mean, the times that we're living in today, there's a lot of bands right now that are inspired by, you know, Good Charlotte and what you guys have done and are doing. And there's, you spawned a lot of people that are right now content. contemporaries who are making the type of music that you guys were making, you know, I don't know, when you first started.

So it is important and it's, you know, theme songs for people. There's a lot of people that grew up listening to it and it's important to them and it's like part of their whole identity. And I think music is that. For me, music has always been about identity. You know, I'm older than you. I'm 47 and I come from a time. Maybe I'm not sure.

Maybe you were, you got to experience this. But when I was, you know, 13, going to middle school, your identity was what you listen to. Like now people listen to everything, right? Rap, rock, pop music. Back then, you could only listen to one, not the other. So you were either into rap or you were into punk or you were into hair metal or pop, right? You couldn't really like go in between those worlds. Because that was your identity.

You were like, I'm a rocker or I'm this urban guy. That's how it was. The 90s was like that like for everything. But nowadays it's like everything is just one mix of everything, genres and music. But identity, I think is important for everyone. We all need it in order to know who we are and to identify with our tribe. and whatnot. So I think what you've done is very important. The music that you've made is extremely important. Thank you. I feel like what I'm doing too. You know, I feel like it's funny.

I read a comment today on my way over here on my Instagram and it's funny. You know, it's always the negative one that stands out. Of course. That's all you look for. You know, there was like a hundred fucking people saying you're the shit and then the one person it was like, I was like, ah, here we go. That's all of us, dude. Yeah, of course, of course. You know, because and it's important because it's a defense mechanism. Of course, you're going to look at the one in the room that's trying to attack you in whatever way. It's how nature built us.

That's smart. I didn't really think about that way. That's what it is. It's like, yo, someone's attacking you regardless if it's on the internet or here and real. It still triggers that. Yeah, it's still like defense. Like, yo, what are you talking shit? You're my enemy or what's going on here?

You're definitely not in my corner. Right. You're against me. So this guy wrote, this music is not really got. and it's very poorly done or something. And I didn't respond. I just block people now.

I didn't used to block people, but now I'm like block, block, you don't have the, you're not going to be able to look at the core. Yeah, I don't want you even seeing what I'm doing. And it's funny because this guy followed me too.

I'm like, damn, you follow me just to whatever. But in my defense, I was thinking, no, you're right, dude,

this is not goth music. Yeah, I call it Cholo Goth, but it's not. I created something that no one has ever created. I'm the only one that's doing this. I created a genre that didn't exist before me. So you're right.

It is not goth music. It's actually super original shit. And the people who are doing goth music today, they're only copying the people that came before them. They're not doing anything original. You're just copying a formula. I created. I made the formula.

What I'm doing stands alone. There ain't no one before or after me that will do what I'm doing. you know and i do have a little bit of an ego but it's important too you know i think it's also we all do i think it's also against something that nature gave us in order to like helped you survive uh life you know what i mean like you had to i'm what i'm what i call i say i call myself i'm a humble arrogant yeah you know but you need it in order i mean we wouldn't be doing what we do if we didn't have any ego you know what i'm saying like at all like if you're up on stage in front of people like there is an ego involved 100% you know um then whether and especially if you've had

success in it you know that validates what you're doing if there's no success behind what you're doing you know it's a drug for sure yeah you know feel like i've i have really have experienced the entire human experience the whole spectrum because i come from poverty i've had wealth I've had success. I've had failure. I'm adored when I'm on stage. I've been rejected by people that I wanted to, you know, be with. So I've experienced everything. I've experienced like extreme poverty and extreme wealth and all of the middle. Some people won't. Some people only will experience like poverty. Born into poverty, die into poverty. Some will are born into wealth, will die into wealth. So they don't get a spectrum of what life has to offer. And I feel to be a complete human, you have to experience all of it. You know, sorrow, jealousy, you know, rage, you know, love, all of it. I think from the outside as someone who's been watching artists and talking to artists and all different kinds of artists for 26 years, I always feel like I'm a fan of special.

and then I want to dissect why that person's special, right? Like, why are they so iconic? Why are they so special? Why do they stand out? Why are they so magic? Why does it feel like magic? Like, so as an outsider who's looking who's like, so I'll give you my perspective, right? Because I think you're living your real life, which is real.

Yeah. Right? So you unfortunately have to have the real experience that makes the thing, the complicated, like when you look at the. old tree that's just got all the branches and all the complications to it and you go how the fuck did that thing become so crazy like special that old tree it it grew over time and there was all kinds of weather and things that made it the way it is so i look at like an artist like you and i and i i'm lucky because i i get to be honest and just share what i think and feel about things and i've just

been lucky enough to like sit with like really special people over my my life and artists that do magic like you say they it is a magician right like it's yeah because you're manifesting your your your dreams into reality or you know whether whether there is success that's not the point it's that you're making it happen you know what i'm saying that's the thing with you i don't see the sick i don't see the the success thing mattering as much as the creative thing the creation of what is here and what's here and then you create a these things. But then, so I think you're, the, the complications are also what makes it so special.

So I think it's like one of those things that like, you have to live with those complications because it is a part of what makes you so, you know, to me, I don't, this is what I say, said to Benj. I said, when I said I wanted to talk to you and I was like, do you think Rafa would, would talk to me? because I don't think you give a fuck about doing things to promote things. I don't think you're... So it's hard, you know, I'm a hard, I'm easy but hard to work with at the same time, you know.

I'm easy in a sense where like I always, I'm always down. But if things, I don't know, again, I go with my gut feeling, you know, and if things just don't feel right, I just don't, I don't, I don't, I won't do them, you know. I feel like, listen, I, I like, I like. working with people but I just want everything to be like not like desperate or or I don't know I just scared I don't know not even scared I just don't like when things are are very consumer right based right you know like I don't make music this for the masses you know like it's for select few, you know, and that's for the deep thinker and that's for the person that's really like, I don't know, if you get it, you do. If you don't, like, it's cool, but I don't, you know,

I've been asked to do stuff for like this or that or write music for this or that or this person. And then I do it. And you know, it always gets rejected, you know, and I understand why, because it's like, I know what they're looking for, but I can't give them what they're looking for, which for me it's always interesting that you came for me for something. I'm giving you what I do. And then you're like, yo, this is not marketable. No fucking shit. Look what you came to.

Yeah. I don't do marketable shit. You know what I mean? So it's very interesting. But I can because I'm intelligent enough to listen to a song on the radio. And I have great people around me to say, oh, that's the formula. Cool. Let's do it.

Let's fucking put some auto tune here and do this and do that. It's easy, breezy, you know? But it's not, it's not hard. I have a buddy of mine who's like hitmaker, right? He just makes hits, hits, hits, hits. And it's funny because he's always like, yo, it's a formula. You do this, you do this and this.

But I can't do that. You know what I'm saying? Because that's not what I want to be known for. But that's, I think, why everybody fucks with you. If you, whether you know this about yourself or you don't, I feel like you do. You've been here a long time. You know that everybody fucks with you.

Everybody likes you. Everybody respects you because, I think that we all have a deep want to be able to just be ourselves. And I think that, like, I struggled with it for years. I was myself, but at the same time, I struggled with, like, trying to keep up, trying to, like, I think for many, many years, I was worried about what everyone thought because I, like, I didn't have the confidence for whatever reason until I was older to be like, you know what? This is me. this is what I'll do

I won't do that sorry I can't do that we'll do that and I try to find the balance of like I like to make things I like to be out there I just hosted a TV show Inkmasters

I liked it I did it because I liked the show I watched it with my kids and I want and then they called and I was like it was like fantasy camp for me because I had been watching the show for 13 seasons

and then I got to go do it and I didn't even think how did I do? I just was, I had a really good time. Yeah. And so it was like actually kind of a healing experience because everything I feel like early in my career,

I would do things I thought I was supposed to do because that's what you do, right? Like you don't say no to that because I think I came from like maybe it's a poverty mind, but I felt like I didn't deserve to be. I didn't do like it was just luck that I got there. No, it's not luck. You guys make amazing. music. You know what I mean? Thank you. And you guys have great style, you know, like I remember when

you guys stepped into the scene, you know, you guys were unique and different from everyone else, you know, you guys stood out. You wouldn't be where you are if you didn't. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, man. But you're, oh, to add, I'm sorry for interrupting you brother. I'm sorry for that. What I wanted to add to that was like, I think the reason I am how I am is because I've experienced that, but I also started older, right? I started making music at 37. You started making music way younger. So your experience is completely different from mine because you were still, you know, growing.

I came into this shit as a grown-ass man. I came in as an adult. I already knew who I was, what the fuck I'm talking about, what I'm doing. I already came in with, not that you didn't have an identity, of course you did, you know, but I came in with a fucking 37-year-old experience,

you know, with fucking, I had already gone through a lot of shit. So when I came, I was, I was already set in stone. The only thing I didn't have was like I came from the streets. So I didn't have the, the, not, not, I didn't know this game yet. You know, I didn't know the music game yet, right? Because I come from a place when someone gives you your word.

It's their word. That's it. I didn't realize that here in this music industry, the word don't mean shit. Yeah. But I did come into it as a grown man already, as artistically at least. So I came in already with my identity. I was like, yo, this is where I fucking am 100%. You know, I'm a 37-year-old grown man.

At the time, I had a 22-year-old daughter. I already, you know, I had, I already owned two houses, had an apartment complex. I had a fucking restaurant. I already had money when I came into doing music. Wow. I didn't come into music. Broke. Right.

I came into music already loaded. And so I funded all of it. I funded the vinyl, the mur, everything came out of my pocket. There was no one backing it by me. I didn't know that. Yeah. That's cool. I didn't come into music.

I probably was making more money before I started making music. So for me, the music thing really was just like, yo, something that I got to get out of my chest. I'm feeling something. I really want to. I don't know. Like the seed was there. I think the seed was there and it took fucking 37 years to blossom, you know. Or to get back to where we started.

Well, I was also like living a lot of different lives. I've lived multiple realities simultaneously. So, you know, I'm a father at 17 years old. Wow. I open up a business. I'm gang banging at the same time. I'm trying to take care of my dad who's sick. I'm trying to live the American dream by buying my mom a house and doing all these crazy things.

And also trying to like, because I was, honestly, I think what I'm doing now, it's a little reversal role where I'm trying to be a child now because I never was a child. Never got to have your childhood. I was an adult my entire life. Right. And now that now I'm just having, so the music thing for me was like, I was already, I was, I was my, I was already, everything was concrete. So for me, I was like, now I just want to fucking, just fucking fuck around and, and have fun and just live my life without, because, because before that, I was living for everyone else. Yep. And not for myself.

I was living for my parents who were immigrants. I was living for my daughter was, you know, she had to be here. I had her when I was 17. of my siblings who I consider my children, you know, and my nephews. So I was always like the provider. I've always been the provider. You know, it wasn't until I got with my old lady, with my wife, who actually has more than I do.

And because before that, even whoever I did it, I always took care of. If I was dating a girl, I helped her with whatever, with rent, furniture, whatever. I was like, if I loved you, I got you. You know what I'm saying? And it wasn't until I got with my wife that's, you made your math. That I experienced, not even my match, that I experienced someone saying, oh, no, I got you. Let me pay for dinner.

I'm like, what? Yeah. Baby, I got you. I'm like, well, my wife really, like, for me, I was like, oh, this woman really loves me because I've always been the one that's got the fucking credit card out or the money out. And my wife is the first person ever in my entire living that actually takes care of me. Yeah.

I was like, yo, I got you. Don't worry about that shit. You're good. And I'm like, what the fuck? I've never, I've never had that, you know? What are we talking about? You see my mind is a labyrinth and I get lost. I love it.

I love it, dude. It's everything I hope for. I got to tell you, Rafa. It's everything I hope for. It's because I'm living multiple realities simultaneously. So I'm telling you multiple shit because my brain is layered with too many things. But you're talking about things I believe in. And it's not often that someone says things that I think about or talk about.

And we'll start back with where we started with manifestation, right? Oh, manifestation. So manifestation. or we could call it creative visualization. Well, talk about manifestations. You know that I met my wife fucking almost 20 years ago before she was famous or anything, before anyone knew who she was.

I met her on my space. Oh, wow. I met her on my space. I reached out to her, you know, saying that I wanted a tattoo, but I didn't want a tattoo. I wanted to meet her. Right.

I drove from San Diego to LA when she was working at True Tattoo. We hung out, we talked, we vibed, and then we stayed in contact. contact and then all of a sudden, boom, she became who she became. And then I was still in San Diego living my crazy life. So she went and became who she is now, you know, and I just was still an SD. Chearing her on too, going like, wow, I used to hang out with that girl. And now look at her.

She's fucking killing it. Kat's an icon. She's an icon. And then I come back in 2013 as prayers. We reconnect 2015. Now she's my fucking wife. and this is a girl that I was in love with 20 plus years ago. And you guys have this beautiful family.

And it's so crazy. So I remanifested that. You know what I mean? I was like, yo, this is the woman of my dreams. Boom, she's unattainable.

She's out of here, man. She's fucking Hollywood. Then boom, all of a sudden, I'm fucking without thinking about it, I'm in L.A. I'm working.

I'm not even thinking about it. But, you know, everything was in motion. Everything was in motion for us to get back, to be together. It's interesting, too, because like you both manifested it because what you guys give each other is something that you can't buy

you can't obtain you can only have with the true a true experience of love right so you guys have this beautiful family when i look at it i like like again i'm gonna just be a fan iconic iconic family it's like look at the look at them man the fucking way they do everything is cool look at them that's how that's how i want to be right like that's what we get inspired by people That's how we get inspired by people who are living their life. When I look at you guys, right, and I look at your life and I look at your music, your brand, whatever you want to call the thing that you represent yourself, the way you represent yourself, it is a manifestation.

You did manifest it. You created it. A kid at 10 or 9 or 8 who drew that picture had that in them, right? You had it in you. Yeah. And then reality hits you and you have to survive because there is the present. Yeah. How do we put food on the table, get from A to B, and then just survive, right?

But then you survive through a time where you share about life in a place where you're a gang member and you're up against a lot of things, right? that most people, like majority of people on the planet, are not also up against. So they may be in poverty, but they're not also up against this, this, and that. So to be fair, you could say if we were scientists and we put everything on the table and we started to calculate the statistics

of this, this, this, this, this, and that. You could say, like, statistically, you're an anomaly, right? Right. So part of that may be manifestation. Part of it may just be divine birth. You know, you were born. Some of it too. I believe that to be true too. I do think what's yours is yours and no one can take it. And I feel like this has always been mine, you know? So there's like I'm just, I'm just in my in my fucking. And then you look at your kid, right? And you see the best of like you see the best of your wife. You see the best of you. And then you see all. also this individual where you're just like trying to let them grow up and be their own selves. But like when you think about what, what I always think about like I don't want to, I don't want to kill any of the inspiration or creativity that my kids have because I had that as a kid and people killed it. And then it found its way out though.

And that would became, you know, early on in our music career, it was just about getting out and like getting ourselves into a better position. So like survive. I needed to find a way to, like you said, I wanted to get my mama house and I wanted to not be broke. And I wanted to, and I also think I wanted to feel good about myself. I wanted to feel important. I wanted to feel special. I wanted to feel, because I think I struggle with that when I was younger.

But when I think about you, when I go, okay, how the hell did this guy survive this, this period, from 10 to, you know, 20, 10, you're 20. And then you get to where you're at now, and you look at this picture of what I look at is a picture of what I would call success. This is someone who knows who they are, who's happy in their life, who's growing, right? Doesn't mean we have to be perfect, but we're not stuck. We're always bettering ourselves and moving forward. And like, that's a part of like what I look for, but people that inspire me are people that are always going.

forward and they look like they're not afraid. They look like they're they're charging forward in life and they're and they're being authentic to themselves. The inspiration though for me is how many kids, how many people, how many guys, whether it's where you're from or all over wherever that are faced with the reality of life that have to go through that reality like you did that don't get to the other side of it or that gets stuck or like to me whether you realize it or not this is why music is important, art is important and people are important. It's like we actually inspire people to go forward because I think you don't look at yourself that way, right?

You're just being you. But I do believe that like there are people watching that are drawing inspiration from what you've done. I believe you have everything that you have because you believed you could have it, because you manifested it because that kid that drew that picture was imagining what life could be. And even when the present reality could tell us it's not that, if we look past the present reality, we can find it. And I think that's the whole idea of us all creatively visualizing our lives and what it would, what it can be manifesting all that stuff i believe it is actually reaching for the better thought

reaching for the better the better reality is like it's a daily process of like battling against the harsh reality of like other people and the negativity that the that you know sometimes our environment can have i think like that is how we get always where we get where we're going we can't have a successful marriage unless we see ourselves being happy being happy being married, I think. We can't be good parents unless we, a part of us believes we could be a good parent. We can't be successful entrepreneurs if we don't think we could possibly, you know. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's funny. You know what? For this environment too, I think I was raised with a loving mother. That's great. Who always was cheering me on. And, um,

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price per month on Shopify. She would tell me stories that definitely influenced and changed the way that I think and see myself. And I had a lot of experiences that compounded that. Recently I heard that contemplation is a luxury of the wealthy, right? You're wealthy, you have time to think about your life and where it's going and what it's doing because when you're poor, you're just in survival mode.

That's right. You're just trying to survive. You're just trying to have food on your table, take care of your kids. You don't have time to read a book and grow and learn. There's no hanging out and just contemplating your day. What am I doing? And I was like, wow, you know what? I must be rich now because I'm constantly always contemplating my fucking life and always

thinking of where I am and how did I get here. But it wasn't always like that. I used to be in survival mode all the time. So with that being said, I think my success has to do with my mother because I had a friend, a dear friend of mine who was abused by his parents and he would always run away and stay at my house. And my dad and his dad once got into it, you know, because he came over. He's all beat up.

And I remember he used to get beat up. And his dad traumatized me one day. We were all hanging out, playing basketball. And he got in a fight with one of the kids and he lost the fight. Went home crying. The dad came back and said, I want you to fight him again. I don't, you know, my son ain't a bitch. And next thing you know, Walmart fights this kid again, loses the fight.

He can't beat our friend. We used to call him Webster. He was the only black kid in our neighborhood. We called him Webster. but he continues to beat up Omar. The dad gets mad that Omar can't beat up Webster and the dad beats up Omar even though he already got beat up like three times by Webster.

That's painful to hear. And Omar became an animal, right? When he became like, I think like 15, he just was massive and so angry. He beat the shit out of his dad, you know, put his dad in a coma. Wow. Got locked up in juvenile hall. We were all gangbangers, but he was in my gang, he was the scariest of all of us, right?

He was just a fucking monster, right? The difference between Omar and I is that I had a mom that was always encouraging me, you know, to be myself. Even though I was in gangs, I would still come home and have like a sanctuary, have a loving home when a lot of my friends didn't have that. You know, the streets were already chaotic and scary and violent and then they would go home to more violence. Right. You know, but at least I went home to a mother. You used to say, hey, you're my angel, you know, and you're special. You're the special one of all my children, you know, because my mom said that she had me when she was 27 years old.

And that's at that age for a Mexican woman coming from the little town, the little Pueblo where she's from, it's like you're already old, you know. And my mom at the time, she was afraid that my father was going to leave her because she couldn't have children. And my mom used to bleed out a lot, you know, so the seed wouldn't stick. You know, my father's seed wouldn't stick in her. So my dad started. wandering, you know, and that scared my mom. Right. I think my dad really hurt my mom because I think he even started talking to my mom's sister, you know,

and I really hurt my mom, so she got really desperate and wanted to keep my dad. So she went to the local healer, right? Which doctor, that's a woman, to the local healer. She had my mom do a few things, you know? And one of those things was to offer her first born to the angel Raphael, which is my name, which in Hebrew means healer. So Raphael is the left hand of God. Michael is the right hand of God. Michael is the warrior.

Rafael is the healer. So the healer told my mother, look, you're going to have a child by this man. Male or female, you're going to name him Rafael. after this angel, right? My mom was got pregnant by my father. She was able to keep my father. And then she had my other siblings, five siblings after that. All my siblings have middle names, right?

I only have my name, Rafael Reyes. That's it. I don't have a middle name. I don't have nothing. I'm not named after my dad, an uncle, a cousin, nothing, right? My mom told me this story because one day I came home. I was in school. when I discovered the word junior.

And I thought it was really cool. I was like junior. I've always been into words and language, right? Yeah. Like my favorite word is ceremony. I just love the letters, the way it sounds, all of it. So I discovered the word junior. And I come home and I said,

and I found out what it meant too. So I come home and I asked my mom like, hey, why am I not junior? I'm the oldest. Why is my little brother third down the line? It's me, my sister Lupe, my sister Sandra, then my brother Alfonso. Why is Alfonso, why am I not Alfonso? I'm the oldest.

My mom tells me this story. You're the special one. You're the reason I have my family. You're the reason your siblings are here. You're the one that stuck. You know, I had to do this and go through this ritual. You're special. So then I started feeling special, right?

So then I grew up thinking I'm the one. Yeah. I'm not named after, I'm unique. I'm not this, I'm not that. I'm not even part of none of this shit. I'm above it. And then it was more, more into that one day, my cards are being read right through Terrell and I'm really young.

and this is my first time that Terrell's introduced into my life and I'm told oh you're going to grow to be very, very old you're not going to die young you're going to grow to be an old man the way I interpreted it when I was told that oh nothing can kill me

because I'm going to grow old right I've been shot, I've been stabbed I'm still here I run into the line of fire. I'm reckless. I'm reckless with my life. Wow.

I'm young. I'm doing crazy shit. Not because I'm the toughest guy in the room, but because in my mind I'm going to grow to be very old. So that means if I fight you, you're not going to be the one that kills me. That means if I get in this situation, that's not going to be the situation that takes me down because I was told that I was going to grow to be very old. So it molded me and it shaped me.

And it made me who I am, these stories of my mom, these certain things, having a loving home, you know? It feels like, I mean, it's amazing, dude. But I'm very lucky to have my mother, man. My mother definitely, and it's interesting because now I try to do that with my son, you know, I try to make him feel like, yo, man, you're, you know, he's definitely a gift to me, you know. Yeah. But I definitely, I feel like it's important, especially when someone's extremely, young in development to encourage them and tell them that like, yo, man, you're beautiful,

you're great, you know, because I saw, I saw it. Listen, me and a lot of me and my friends, we come from almost similar families, immigrants, all Mexicans. And I went like this. And they went like this. And I'm like, well, what changed? Sure, for sure. We all have our own identities. I see what my son. He's three. He already has an identity, the things he likes and the way he sees things. But I know that my mom played a huge important role in my development, you know. And psychologically, I think I wouldn't be here or even write the things. If you really know who I am and what I do and you dive deep into my lyrics, like, you know

that someone that comes from my background shouldn't be saying those things, you know, or talk i should be talking about low writers and shit you know but i'm not i'm talking about things that are like you know well i think that you've drenched in mystery and darkness you know well i think that you you know again i i i always i think we get told and we get the the and i don't i'm not and i'm not pointing a finger at anyone i think it's a generalization we get told we get told what we do is not take away the music, take away everything and just put the words on paper. You're a poet, right? You're telling a perspective.

You're inspired by something to write. Now, you put it to music, you sing it. I understand. But at the end of the day, you're a poet. You're writing poetry. And then you're singing it and delivering it that way. but it's poetry, so it's art. Now, if we led with, this is poetry from this, this poet, he comes from this place.

And he was, and he comes from a life of, of gangs, and there's the street, and there's, and there's, the compelling, you know, the, it's compelling. there's, you know, an immigrant who came here and has lived this experience, right? When you look at it that way, if I took your name off of it, there was no pictures involved and it was like, if I just told you that, it's like, there's this poet. And he's amazing. He grew up and his family immigrated here. He had this experience in the streets. He's got, and I told you, I painted the picture of this person.

You'd be like, damn, let me read his poetry. I want to read that. That's fucking interesting. That, to me, is what I see when I see artists that have come. Because to me, art makes its way out no matter what. If you're a born now, again, like I'm saying, if you stacked all the statistics up and you put all the odds there, the odds were not in your favor. They were against you, right? So against all odds, you've come to this place and you have this, what I say, as an al-a-old.

outsider and a fan, picture of a successful life, right? Now, music, poetry, art to me is it's one of the ways, it's one of life's little like the universe, the equalizer, is that like the universe, the equalizer is that like the universe gave us all the potential. But then it's what actually. activated that potential, your mom. Yeah. Right? Your mom tells you you're special. Yeah.

So you believe what your mom tells you when you're little. So that that gets planted in you. And then that's the differentiator sometimes. When you look at your friends and you go, why, why this and that? Why did I see some people go this way, that way? And it's that differentiator. Not even with my friends, even with my siblings. With your siblings?

I mean, my siblings, we have the same parents. We lived under the same roof. We ate the same fucking food. Yep. we're all completely different. We're all so different. Actually, my siblings, they're all kind of like grouped as like, they're,

they're all have a lot of similarities. Like my two brothers married two sisters. That's how close they all are. They're like very, but I'm an outcast inside of my own family unit, you know? Why is that? We're all from the same home from the same parents, but I was told different things.

Do you know? And everybody survives experiences in different ways. And sometimes like maybe we can't pass judgment on how things work out. They just work out. And in no way I'm saying that, hey, I'm having a better life or different experience. I'm saying that like, it's completely different. In no way you're saying like, yo, my life is better than my siblings or my friends in my hood. I have friends that are doing life in prison, you know.

I have a friend, my boy Smurf, he's doing life. in prison and every time I talk to him, man, he gives me the best advice and he's always so positive and he's never negative and he's like, yo, man, just keep moving forward. And I have people that are doing better than me and they're always dark and negative. You know what I'm saying? So it really, that's not what I'm getting at it saying like, look where my life ended. Like, look at me. I'm married a cat and which is great. You know, but those are my, this is my life. This is my reality. This is what I want. This is what makes me happy. Wouldn't make. maybe my brother happy.

You know what I'm saying? Like they all have, everyone's experiencing what they signed up for. I actually, I agree with you. Like I actually don't think that either one of us and most of the people I'm around would even ever compare our lives to anyone else's.

We're just living ours, right? We're just miserable. Yeah, there's no way. But I'm just saying that it's shake me and mold me to make decisions to lead me to where I am. Like, hell, my, why didn't my friends pursue what I pursued? Why are my siblings?

My siblings didn't pursue what I pursued. You know, they're like, yo, we're pursuing some other shit. We're over here, you know, doing this. I'm over there doing that. And it's just, but it did shape me in the sense where like, yo, my brothers didn't join a gang. Right. But I did, you know. My sister did.

Me and my sister are from the same gang. But my other sister and my three brothers, they're not gang members. They went a whole different other route, you know. So it's just My whole, even my whole gang thing was always about just trying to put my family first and do what I can for them. And at that time, when I was 13,

I thought the best thing for me to do for my family was to join that gang. Right. So that they can maneuver in our neighborhood safely without having to get, you know, um, whatever taxed or, or hurt or anything.

So I was like, well, if I do this, then, that'll protect them. Yep. You know, so it was a sacrifice. It wasn't like, I want to be in a gang, you know? It was like,

what can I do to better my family? Well, this time, this is the decision, you know? And it's funny, you know, I look at 13 year olds now or younger kids and I'm like, damn, what the fuck? I was gang banging at 13? So young. You know, and I felt like an adult back then

and I was making adult decisions in a sense where I was doing, you know, I mean, I was always around, you know, all the older homies who were adults, but I see kids now, that are 13 and I was like they're babies yeah they're children you know

I'm always here like carrying guns and like getting in really dangerous situations you know I remember my mom used to cry my mom my mom used to for a long time my mom was barefoot right she was always barefoot

and it used to embarrass me and I would get in fights with my peers over it because they used to call her like an India. They were saying, your mom's in India, which is an Indian, you know, barefoot Indian. Why is your mom barefoot? Like, what's her problem, you know? And at this point, I'm probably like, you know, 15.

I've already been in the gang for two years, you know. And at this point, I'm making money. You know, I'm making more money than my dad doing dumb, not even doing nothing, like just being running errands. Like, yo, go here, drop this off, boom, boy. I was making like $100, $200 a day. day you know my dad was making like two dollars an hour right maybe i remember you know and i would just fucking get on my bike and ride to another neighborhood drop off a backpack boom a hundred

buck you know so i'm making money i'm living a good life but i'm getting teased by my peers because my mom's barefoot and they're like why don't you fucking you got money why don't you buy your mom's and and i would get him physical fights with my peers you know with my homies from my gang over it, you know. And then one day I got it, I got in a fight over it. And at this point, I was just fucking already, like, kind of fed up with getting teased about it, you know. And I come home and I see my mother, you know, and she's in the kitchen and she's per foot. I had a fucking a roll of fucking water of like hundreds, you know, probably had like a couple grand, two, three grand, you know, I'm fucking like 15. That's crazy.

Yeah, no, I've always, so listen, I'm just, I grew up really poor, but I've always had money. Yeah. Like, money has always been around me. Like, I've never not had money. Like, it's a weird thing. Like, and I grew up poor as fuck, but I always have money. We're not, even before I was gangbanging, I used to go to the soccer fields and collect cans.

I would collect cans. And they got to the point where all the people at the soccer field got to know me and they would just save their cans for me. So when I would go there, they would just, Mikoven, and they would just already. he gave me a bag with all their beers and sodas. And I would take those to the recycling center. I'll just take them and I had my little bread. We had a candy business at school. Yeah.

Me and Benj would sell candy. That's dope, you know? And I had my little bread and I would buy myself whatever I needed for school and shit to still look fly, you know? Because I didn't even know I was poor until I went to school. Right. That's when I found out I was poor because I was like, God damn everyone's looking fresh.

But I grew up around poverty, so I was like, yeah, everyone looks the same. Yeah. But then when I started going, I went to Pacific. beach and that's a little bit, you know, more middle class and people have more money. And I was like, oh shit, I'm, oh shit, I'm poor. So then I started hustling, you know, doing my little thing. But I digress. So I come home, I see my mom, she's barefoot, and I'm heated because I just got in a fight

with one of the homies over, and I see her feet, you know, and I just fucking, what the fuck, man? Why don't you wear some fucking shoes? And I fucking didn't know that my dad was around the corner and I grabbed the fucking water money and I fucking throw it. my mom, bro, and I just hit my mom with all this money. And it just fucking goes up in the air. And she's just there.

Like, what the fuck? My dad comes from around the corner beats the shit out of me. Right. Just starts fucking bombing on me. And I'm thugged out. I start whatever defending myself. And then, like, I kind of just run out of the house. And my dad, like, after he beat the shit out of me, he sits me down.

And he's like, you know why your mom's barefoot, right? All the time. She made a pact with God. that she would humiliate herself so that you wouldn't get shot or killed because she's afraid that she's going to lose you, you know? That's crazy. That is really. It's her.

She doesn't have anything to offer God for your safety or your protection, but her humility. You're the reason she's barefoot. It's not because she can't wear shoes. This is her penance. This is her way of keeping you alive. And it just fucked up my mind, bro. It started warping me more and more.

I've always had like sacrifice and magic and all kinds of in my life. Yeah. It's so crazy to hear these stories and then listening, hearing your art, the way it comes out. There's some, there's, it's all woven into who you are. I see that, I hear that story and I see, okay, a 15 year old 13 to 15 is the craziest time for kids emotionally. Yeah. And I'm falling too, you know. Yeah, and so self-balling, not like my parents, but I don't think that actually you're giving,

that's the crazy part about having to grow up at a young age, grow up and provide for yourself and do all the things that you've had to do. We don't count the actual reality of what we're actually going through as human beings, as all being the same species is from 13 to 15, you're going through the most emotional changes, hormones, all that shit. As a normal teenager is just a. normal kid is not coming in from the street getting into a fight with another kid out there doing this a normal kid is like sitting in his bedroom and he's pissed off because he's going through

fucking puberty right because he's going through the love the change of life that's it that's all the reason he's pissed off so when his mom comes in and he yells at her it's just because he's a fucking hormonal teenage like brat right like that's just like pissed off which is normal like you even go as a parent you go like okay if my kids like moody whatever my kids are pretty easy like i gotta say i have it pretty lucky like but i've seen this they're at that age so they're 13 14 my daughter's gonna be 15 in a few months you see all the kids around and they're all moody and they're all kind of like and they're not going through any let's say of the basic need stuff like like we're in the basic survival everything's provided for and um so they're just having so you're you're

you're going through the the the the the different experiences right of like to me that again that's what i'm just saying is like to get a snapshot of how you grew up and get hearing these stories it really like it's it's it's it's it's it's it's really cool as a fan um it really makes it helps me understand like why i think the art is so special and also it gives what to me a real importance to what you do as an artist, as a poet, as a, as a storyteller, to, and why your music and your art has to continue to live in the world and breathe and evolve because I don't, again, I think you're one of those special artists who's doing it for the right, you know, I don't want to say the right reasons because it makes

I never want any artist to ever feel like they shouldn't be creating for whatever reason they're doing it. I really am one of those people. Like I don't hate anyone. I don't have any enemies. I don't hate anyone's art. Whether I relate to it or not, I really believe that like everyone should.

You can judge people's art, you know? Right. I don't judge anyone for whether everyone's doing something. I'm sure about that people do that. You know, when people, yeah. This music did it.

I'm like, yo, what are you doing? Yeah, Exactly. I want to hear your fucking song. I want to see your fucking painting. The guy on Instagram or whatever that wishes he was maybe closer to you or for whatever

reason he wants to write a comment or troll or whatever. A lot of times they're reaching out. That's how they connect. They've had a negative relationship with the world. So that's how they relate to you. But at the end of the day, I think what you're doing is really, important and I'm so glad you came to I'm so glad you came here and to talk to me because you're you're on my short list of people that I just was I just continue to be interested in like

thank you brother the fuck how does that guy like what how does that guy move and and and and hearing your story from firsthand you know and it's not your whole story it's just little moments of your life sharing, you could have an entire series of talking about your life, your experiences, and your art and present and past. And I think that it's a really unique and special perspective in the world that needs to be seen and heard because I think you represent something really. great. I think that like in a day and age where people would kind of say that the American dream isn't alive and well, that it's not, maybe that the things aren't like they used to be, whatever.

There is, there's a through line for me with human beings and that are honest that are not trying to like put together the right look to put on, like we live in a world of social media. It drives everything now. And I think that we come from a time when it wasn't like that. So we understand what it was like to just do things. Yeah, I mean, I come from a time when there wasn't any cell phones. And the way that I discovered music was like through magazines and records. And I would sit there and like study them and like, who's this? And, you know, I would do deep dives, you know, like research.

It wasn't like in my hand where I could just be like right away. And I feel like I really appreciated art and the people that were doing it because I really would spend time like, you know, doing a deep dive into things that I was interested in. And like now I feel like the attention span is shorter and then everything is just consume, consume, consume and like this is cool today and not tomorrow. And I want to make shit this timeless, you know? I think you are. And I think, look, there's positive and negatives to both.

But I think I understand why you have so many fans and why you're, the movement you have is so important. And there's a timelessness to it. I can exactly, I can see why. I can feel why it's timeless. You know what I mean? It is kind of, it's new. It's right now, but it also feels like a classic car.

It kind of has the details of, of a classic thing. And so I think that it really like is cool to sit and talk in person when you've been watching someone. and it has been a bit of a mystery to me. And I think that's part of being a fan. It's part of what we like as fans. Like to watch a, you know, it's like to become a fan of something.

I like, I like that, but I think it's cool to know, you know, we all are living in our real lives every day. It's like real reality. And I think, I think it's,

it's, it's really cool to see, the guy who's married, who's a dad, who's navigating the world in his own way, that it's inspiring to see someone who has the, you know, the confidence and the, the, the, whatever it is, it's like of the authentic, the, the, the originality that you have. And then getting to hear some stories that help me understand why. I think it's, uh, It's it's exactly what I wanted to experience. Yeah.

It's dope. Yeah, brother. Thanks for coming here. Oh, my pleasure, man. Thanks for having me, man.