Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Ricky Hil

Episode Date: January 1, 2025

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Ricky Hil. As the son of famed designer Tommy Hilfiger, Hil has been tasked to carve out his own space within music and culture. He turned to emo rap in the 2010s, creating a murky sound that helped to influence GothBoiClique — namely Lil Peep. The duo even made a couple of songs together, which remain unreleased. In a conversation with Madden, the rapper explores his lifelong relationship with music and fashion, the complex process of self-realization, and the work ethic he learned from his father. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'm talking with music, artist, and streetwear fashion designer, Ricky Hill. Let's go. I'm not smoking on gas. I'm smoking on piv. That's my kind. I don't want to bed times.

I don't want to have bad. All right. How you doing? We're good. Not too early today. Yeah, I'm nervous, man. It's my first podcast ever, yeah. A little nervous.

How old are you? A 34. 34. Okay. Yeah. young. Yeah. I'm 45, so.

I mean, 11 years on you. 11 years, that's not that much. I feel like I'm 34 though. 10 years goes by fast. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.

How do you feel at 34? I feel better than I did at 24. Yeah? Yeah. What's that? Fuck, um. 24 was a 24, 24, I got off pills. It's like I couldn't sleep for a long-ass time.

Yeah. Just like trying to be a human and shit. Yeah, pills are tough, man. Yeah. You've been in my awareness, right? I've heard your music. I've followed. And so when I was like, oh, I'm going to talk to Ricky, okay, I didn't know what to expect.

I was like, is he going to be like standoffish? Or you know how you're like, it's like going to school the first day? I'm like, so that's how I always feel when I'm talking to someone that I don't know very well. And I'm sure we probably have like, we probably have people between us. It's like people we know. That's usually the case, right? Yeah. I've never.

And I think my brother met you. He said you were really nice a long time ago maybe. Yeah, we hung out one night. Yeah. Yeah. But I was like, I wonder what he's going to be like. So I'm pleasantly surprised because I always like a friendly face. Likewise.

Yeah. Now, I was nervous because I fucking look up to you, man. Like I said when I walked in, I was like, you're a real fucking rock and roll star. Like you're everything. thing I always wanted to be, you know what I mean? Well, you look more like a rock star than I do. That's a lie, dude. Look at, look around, you know what I mean?

Look at all the fucking plaques and magazine covers and shit. Like, you're a real rock star, man. Like, I'm emulating what I saw and people like you and, like, you and like Wayne and shit like that. I love Wayne. I know, yeah. He's a real rock star. He's a real rock star.

So are you, though. He's a goat. Yeah, so are you, though. What the fuck? Thank you. Yeah. You know, I don't know if I feel like it, but I definitely feel like I've got a life full of experience.

I think the biggest rock stars don't feel like it. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I'm not trying to be me when I was 24 today. Yeah. I'm being me when I was 45. What does that even mean? That's kind of the journey you go on in life is like, who am I at this moment in my life?

How have I grown? Do I still like certain things? Have I let other things go? Did I have phases? All that stuff is part of like what makes us uniquely us. at each stage of our life. And today at 45, I certainly feel like I've got a ton of experience in like things like music and all the experiences that we can get into.

But I also married, I have kids. I'm building businesses and I'm trying to like still discover like, what does it mean to to be me at 45? Damn. It means something different than at 25. Yeah. You know what I mean? But 25 got me here.

Fuck yeah. So it's like a pill problem may be a pill problem. until you until it's not a problem and then you can say it's something that got you here right? Yeah, I mean,

insight you have. Yeah. Did you used to, I was like, my homie was like, are you gonna ask him anything? And I was like, did you used to get fucked up

like back in the day? Because, um, I love your music and I look up to you a lot. I'm just wondering like when you're on tour, like did you, like when y'all were performing

at D.C., like in front of the fucking White House or the Capitol and your brother had the bad brain shirt on? Like, did you get fucked up Like, did you drink? Technically, uh, certainly got fucked up.

Like alcohol? Alcohol. Yeah. I wanted to ask about alcohol, too, so that's interesting. Yeah, so alcohol, um, definitely. I drank. I indulged. Yeah.

Overindulged. Yeah. Never had a pill problem. That's good. Never did cocaine. Never did heroin. I never did heroin. I never did heroin.

Smart. Yeah. I mean, all my homies sold it. So it was never like the cool thing to take. Right. You know, but we did a lot of. MDMA and then MDMA. Pills, you know.

But then there's like weed and mushrooms and stuff I don't really count as like drugs. Yeah. But everybody has a different perspective on that. Yeah. I guess I wouldn't really count that. I guess when I first started making music, I like to tell myself like

when I would eat mushrooms or smoke weed like yeah, I'm doing drugs. This is artistic. When I was like 17 or I just started smoking weed every day, I'm like, I'm doing drugs. Like, fuck yeah. I've always wanted to do drugs. Some people could argue that the right people drinking or smoking weed would end them up, going down the rabbit hole of trying other things, did it for me.

Although I'm not a big weed smoker. Yeah. But I don't have a problem with people smoking weed. Some people, it's like a thing they do. They need to relax every day. That's how they do it. But pills are a tough one because I saw, I came up in the opioid generation of like when the epidemic was an epidemic, but they didn't call it.

an epidemic because it was when it was happening. And that was like, my family members got a back surgery or got injured on the job site, end up hooked on Oxy or, you know, so I saw all that happening around me. Yeah. And it was like, oh, I got pretty quickly a reality of like, oh, he's addicted to Oxy. So that was like a thing. Like we were like, oh, that's scary. So I was always stayed away from it because it scared the hell out of me because I saw so many

people like fall apart from it yeah but you talk about it in your music too right like you're i mean i don't know if you want to talk about you like your pops and shit shrink yeah yeah my dad was a alcoholic and you know he died from it um wow and um yeah it was it was a sad thing to kind of when you grow up in it you don't really understand it until you're older and you realize what things are yeah you learn about it and then you go oh damn like you know i started going to therapy when i was in my early 30s and like unpacking all that stuff. And like, how did that affect me? And then I really got a good understanding of like

what it means to be an alcoholic for someone to go through that. Yeah. And it doesn't shock me. I mean, I'm around all different kinds of people going through problems, especially because I work in music. So I'm around lots of bands and lots of people. There's always going to be a drug element in music.

It's just part of the culture, I think. And it doesn't shock me when someone's addicted to a drug. drug, but I have like a very grave understanding of like how it can affect your life. For sure. So I try to share that with people. Yeah. I come from a long bloodline of alcoholics myself. Yeah.

And my immediate home too. You know what I mean? Like my mom, you know, so she doesn't really drink anymore, but it still took a toll on all of us. Right. You saw her go through it. Yeah. I mean, for sure.

And then I find it hard to stop drinking myself. And I don't even get like fucking. up every day, but sometimes, you know, I get too fucked up and I'm like, damn, what am I doing? Like, you know? Yeah. And you probably have a conflicted relationship with the idea like I did for a very long time. I get really drunk one night, go big, blackout, something like that. What I found out about myself was I was medicating some trauma from my childhood.

And when I went and did the work on myself, I no longer really wanted to drink. And then I found like there was something about healing some stuff that was directly related to my need to feel like I need to go out and like drink. So I'm not saying that everyone who's an alcoholic probably just has trauma and needs to fix it. They probably do. But there are people who are just alcoholics. They cannot stop drinking unless they're in a program and they're vigilant. For sure. That's not me, but certainly my dad would have.

I was like had to. But, um, but, um, but your dad were to rehab. Did you ever go to rehab? I went to rehab a couple of times. Wow. A few different rehabs. Yeah. How was that? The first time was 60 days in Utah.

Wow. And, um, how old were you? 20. Wow. 2010. Mm. So I got arrested out here in L.A. with, with weed. I just had three ounces in different bags.

Yeah. But in 2000. They put it together. 10. Yeah. Yeah, it was a different bag. You were like, but I put this jacket on. There was a bag in there.

I put these pants on. It was back in there. Yeah, you know, like expired registration, like smoking weed in the car. And they gave me a felony for intent to distribute. Oh, my God. So my lawyer was like, you got to go to rehab to show that you're an addict. You have a problem. And I was like, for weed?

I'm not fucking going to rehab for weed. And I was like, all angry and shit. I didn't even drink alcohol at the time. Right. But being in rehab, I'll never forget. Like, after getting out, after two months of being in there, I was like, I wanted to drink alcohol because that's all they talk about in there. And they, you know, like, A.A., they just tell stories about getting fucked up.

Sounds amazing. Yeah, this lady's like, I remember I used to wake up every day, like that Jim Morrison song. Just have a beer out the fridge. And I was like, fire. That's kind of. Like, is it that much fun? Well, yeah. Yeah.

Yep. Yep. So then I started drinking. It's a distinct difference for someone who's an alcoholic because I had this experience with with my dad, God bless him. Rest and peace. We had a very conflicted relationship our whole life, but the last 10 years of his life, we became very good friends and I understood the man that also happened to be my biological father. So that's how I kind of like look at it as like, okay, put aside all of the emotional things that maybe I didn't get when I was younger that I had to go

and work out when I got older. And certainly I feel like being a father now, I've been able to heal a lot of that. But the man who actually was my father, I got to know him and we were friends. And he was a good guy. He was old schooled. He was like, came from nothing, wasn't motivated by money, wasn't motivated by any of the things that people care about in the world today, like politics or this or that. It's like all this stuff. Man, he was just a working class. Wanted to have a job. Yeah. And then go to the bar after drink, watch sports, would pull over on the side of the road and help someone, would go over to someone's house on the weekend. And he worked with his hand. So he would build things for people or renovate their fucking nursery when they were having a kid or their bath. He was just that guy.

Yeah, all around. Yeah. Yeah. But he's easy great to everyone else. But like, was it hard to deal with them at home? When I was younger, he had four kids. He was never, when I think about it, imagine having four kids and making 30, 40, 50 grand a year maybe and trying to put a roof over their heads and keep up with the bills. And my mom was a handful too. That's a whole other thing. He was trying to be upstanding. He came from a rough background. So he was trying to be on the straight and narrow, work a real job and be a upstanding citizen and go to church on Sunday and do all that. Yeah. Now I understand how hard that would be if you don't come from that and then you're trying

to do that. And then also he was an alcoholic. Yeah. My granddad was he, you know, my granddad was a World War II vet, had lots of PTSD. So that was a hard house to grow up in. And so there was a lot of generational stuff there. Wow. And so now I understand it.

But he was a real rageaholic. Yeah. Real violent guy, real, real angry guy when he was drinking and certainly I think when he was dealing with his own PTSD and all that stuff. My dad's dad was like that. Yeah. And then now my dad's fucking amazing. Like, he's just a con great guy.

Doesn't rage or anything like that. But his dad used to, you know, beat the shit out of him for sure. Right. So he was the opposite. Yeah. Yeah. Just kind of like how you must be with your kids. You know what I mean?

I'm the opposite. Exactly. Yeah. I'm like. That's how he was. How do you feel? Yeah. I'm not angry.

I'm like, that's the thing with raising kids. I don't know if I'm getting it right or not because I'm not a very, I'm not big on punishing. I'm just trying to like talk to them and like we're close but also they're fucking teenagers so I was gonna fuck up with a bad dad or a good dad or anything like my dad fucking did well he did his best for sure yeah you guys are close we're very close yeah that's really nice yeah we're like that like best friends yeah best friends amazing for sure that's what I hope for yeah we are we're like that I asked him if I could fucking get this rose on my face you know what I mean

yeah what did you say he was like you know what at this point because he's been mad at me for getting face tattoos and shit before in the past. He was like, at this point, he was like, you could put it over your fucking nose. Like, do whatever you want. Yeah. You're good. He just loves you.

I love you. Yeah. He's like, I know you understand. I don't know. He knows I understand and I'm happy with myself and I understand what I want to look like. And I understand how I want to feel. And he respects that. And you're on your own journey.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. You're just trying to make your own way in the world. and figure out what it means to be you. For sure. Yeah. It's hard.

Yeah, it's hard. For all of us. For sure. I say, like, it's interesting. With you, I have no idea what it felt like or what it feels like to be you. I have no idea what it means to grow up where you grew up. I have no idea what it means to grow up and have your dad as your dad. But no one does.

Yeah. And because I think about this. Like, I always talk to other guys who have. great men as fathers, right? So whatever, you know your dad as your dad, as your friend. The world it's different. I will look at your dad and I would put him in the box I'd put him in and say, he's a great man because of this or that, because he's accomplished things. Right. Right. Which I'm sure you're proud of. Right. But you know him in a whole different way. To grow up with a man who's, the example you have is a guy who's accomplishing things and accomplishing things

at a high level is probably one amazing in some ways. But then the other way, you know, I talk about this because my wife's dad is, you know, Lionel is like this great man. Right. And so for a very, very long time, the most interesting thing about my wife was her dad. That's what people knew we were as. Like, that's his kid. Right.

For a long, long time. She went through these like, who am I? Right. Like, you go. Like, who am I? Like, what, think about it. Think about it. In the reality of your life, not the, not the storyline that someone could read, the reality.

Like, every day you got to get up and live and breathe and do stuff. Like, that's real life versus the idea of you that I could write down on paper, right? I could write down Nicole, her dad, this. Everything that I would write would be, that would be, like, interesting to you, because we're all just people going along and through the world, right? Like, you remember driving in my car. Trying to get a coffee. Like, look at that.

The headline, you read the headlines because that's just like people. That's all you read is the headline. You don't even read the headline. You don't even read the article. You just read the headline and you're like, oh, that's it. That's what happened. Whatever they wrote. And so you look at Nicole who grew up in this headline.

Very compelling house with like her dad's Lana Ritchie and her godfather is Michael Jackson and Prince and Quincy Jones. And it's this like insane world. that you think, like, wow, oh my God. And you're like, no one stops to go like, to think about anything else, right? We just read headlines. And then you come into the world

and you try to like just be a person and do stuff and everybody's throwing kind of stones at her because it's kind of human nature. It's like, oh, you come down off your high horse to like try and do something. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.

It makes no sense, right? Yeah. So I always ask her, I'm like, and she's so funny because it's all she's ever known. And I'm like, what does I feel like? And she's like, I don't know. She's got a lot of class because she's had to deal with it her whole life. So it doesn't really like, it's not real to her. She's just like, it doesn't affect her.

But it certainly has affected her somehow because when the minute she got into the world and started doing stuff, people just run away with all these narratives. But she's actually just a cool-ass person who's. was smart, funny. Underneath it all. Underneath it, the real person. Like, I'm sitting with you and I'm going, look this guy. He's smart. He's nice.

You sit with a person and you get a sense of them. Thank you. Likewise. You know what I mean? And like, that's what I always want is I like to sit with people and get a sense of the person. Right. Because that's the person that you go, like, do I, would I hang out with that person or not?

At the end of the day, like, as human beings, we're all just sniffing out. For sure. Like if someone's real or not. Yeah. Or like are they a liar? Yeah. Or not. You know what I mean?

Like it's kind of that simple. Yeah. And she's just real. Yeah. And she's been through a lot. And she's been on this journey to be to, I think, come into her own sense of herself. And when you're coming out from under parents who have achieved greatness in any category of life, it's a lot harder. I think, to come into your own sense of yourself in the world and then do what you want to do with your life without dealing with the mass kind of, because I don't want to say it's stupid. It's just the reality of us. We're all the same. We drive along and we look at billboards. I would hate me too is a thing too. Like as a normal person, like, I mean, as just me looking at me from the outside, like I would say all the things that people say about me too.

I guess at one point. You know what I mean? But that's only because you are actually a real person who lives in the real world and you understand real people. That's why. You wouldn't say, you were only saying that,

and I'm saying it as a good thing. You're only saying that because you have a real sense of reality. And there are people who don't have any sense of reality who grew up in bubbles who are not actually aware. I don't get you. Why don't they like me?

You're like, no, no. It's okay. Listen, I get it. And that goes for anybody, and I'm hogging the mic here, but I want you to share. You're saying some real shit. But I feel compelled to tell you because I always am so interested in people that come from compelling stories, compelling families, regardless of what that family is. Some people, it might be a political family. Some people, it might be a whatever.

All I'm saying is this is like, everybody has some deal. different thing that they have to, like, figure out how to live their best life and be them. And we could all stand there and look at each other's and go, like, you had it better than me because of this. And that's not true. Because it's, we're all. Yeah, you can't measure pain. It's a singular experience. You can't, like, measure pain, like, the weight of pain. You don't know, you know. And also, like, going back to what you said about, like, with your wife's father and, like, how that is, is like, my dad, what he gave me was like work ethic and creativity. Yeah.

She's like, do what you want with that. And I fucking made music. And like, he was working a lot. And like, I also would kind of just like be out. Like when my parents split up when I was 10. Right. And then I just moved with him. You know, I stayed with him.

But he was kind of always working. Right. Of course he was. So I would just be out with like the older homies. I would be in Philly most of the time. Yes. And I would just be like on my own. and I would just kind of experience the world pretty young.

Right. You know? And I would have people to take me where I wanted to go. And I'd be like, take me to Philly. Take me to New York City on a school night. Take me here. You know what I'm saying? I would have older people around me.

Not always my parents. Right. But I learned a lot from older friends. Right. You know what I mean? And then what he gave me was like a work ethic and creativity. So like I really just make music for me. Right.

And then it kind of started to work out a little bit more where people, you know, told me they liked it. And then I didn't really do shit for a long time. I don't make a lot of money. Like, I barely make anything at all, you know? So I- Yeah, music is very hard to make a living in. Yeah, I mean, for sure.

I know. So, but and that's a lot of pressure too, having a dad like that and I'm like, don't want anything. Like, I like my pickup truck and my little house and my dog and like, don't give me nothing. I don't need that life. Right. You know, because I thought when I was a kid, like, damn, you want to have a big house and

and bantleys and shit like that. You think you do. You think you do. But then now I'm like, that's when I was the least happy. Yeah. You know, so I'm happy with a simple life. And if I ever make money off music, like how you did or how he made money off clothes, like, that's great.

Whatever. Like, I probably still live a simple life. But it'll be mine. And, like, I try to take as little as possible. because I fucking respect what he did so much. And I'm like, Dad, that's your money. I'm not entitled to shit. It is big shoes to fill sometimes.

But then I kind of just stop trying to fill the shoes. I'm like, just I got to be myself. I think that is the key, is like realizing that the idea that there are shoes to fill is kind of like put in all our heads, right? Every man is his own man. You got to be. Yeah. All you can hope for when you have a son is that he hopes.

hopefully grows up to be the best version of himself on the other side of whatever he has to go through. We all have to go through something, all of us. For sure. Some more than others. Yeah, some more than others. Some more than others. Some earlier than later.

Some later than earlier. Absolutely. But you hope that they do something they love and they work hard because there's something about working hard that gives, I think, people, the texture and the grit that they have in life to deal with the pain, suffering, lost.

we none of us get to escape that it's just the way it is people always hear my music and I was like this shit is dark you okay or like you know especially like family members or be like you okay like whatever like worry about you

and I'm like I get all the shit out so I could be so light you know what I mean I'm pretty jolly I guess every day you know I smoke weed and smile and go outside in the sun and laugh a lot and you know what I mean but um I think I

get a lot of the darkness out. That helps me... It's art. Be light. But there's a lot of darkness. I don't know. I was kind of just born a little negative, a little glass half empty. Yeah.

So when I started learning how to, for real? Yeah. I mean, like, you're an amazing songwriter too. So it's like... Thank you. That's got to come from that. Like, you've got to get that shit out, right? Yeah.

Well, it's like pain. Yeah. Where does it come from? I don't know. It comes from somewhere. Yeah. I was in a lot of pain. I think it's from my childhood,

but it also could just be one of those people. Like, I do think some of us are just born, like, with some sadness. Yeah. I definitely think it's, like, it's the formative. If we're inclined to be sad and then we go through some stuff, yeah. Our experience of the world is going to be one that's sad. Yeah.

That to me is what I've been working on for, like, fucking 13 years. in therapy, just like, and I've done a good job of it, because I do go out into the world now and look for all the good, but it took me a long time. It was fucking hard. Yeah, like chasing the exterior shit. Do I see the world as a place full of good things where I'll make friends and people aren't out to get me and things go my way and I like myself? Or do I see the world as a place where everything goes wrong? I don't like myself. People don't like me. Those are like two distinct different, you know, biases or whatever. And it took me a long time to flip mine. I think I was generally waiting for, like, the bad things to happen. But I think that's just

from childhood because a lot of bad shit happened. Yeah. Yeah, I'm, I've kind of always been the same as that, but I try to, I try to be happy. Like, I've learned, I'm 34, so I've, like, learned different ways to feel happier, I guess, you know what I mean? Yeah. Do you go to therapy? I do, yeah. That's good. Yeah. Yeah, I believe in that. Yeah, I do go to therapy. This is kind of like therapy for me too. Yeah, this is.

I feel like I'm in therapy. Yeah. For sure. Well, it's like, I always wonder, like, when I see someone going through something out there, you know, we watch each other. We're humans and we go, oh, he's going through that. I always wonder, like, are they talking to somebody? Are they giving themselves room to be, like, a person?

Yeah. Or are they just not dealing with it? But I think it's important. Work some shit out. One of the big things I realized recently in the last, like, year, was like I just like even something as hear me out as simple as like I didn't get a lot of hugs when I was little. Damn for real.

Yeah. So I didn't really think about that until I had kids. Yeah. When you gave me a hug when we saw each other. I was like, that was a good hug. I didn't realize it until I was kid till I had kids like I hug them a lot. So it's important. And I had to like really make sound weird.

But I always asked myself like, did you hug your kid today? I like check. Damn. It's a weird thing to think about, right? Like, maybe some people don't think about that. They don't have to. You probably hug them more. So I'll try to hug them.

And, you know, teenagers don't want to be hugged. But when they were little, that you got to grip them up. Yeah, you just got to grab them. Just corner them. Yeah. But it's something as simple as that. You could think about it and go like, oh, that affects someone and how they grow up. Yeah.

Did they get a lot of hugs? Yeah. Someone like grab them and hug them. Yeah. I actually think a lot of us probably didn't. Yeah. It's a weird thing. No, I got a lot.

My dad used to hug me a lot. Yeah, your dad seems like a nice guy. Yeah, he used to take me to hockey practice at 4.30 in the morning. Oh, wow, you played hockey? I did for a while. I stopped in high school. Were you good? When I got to high school, I wasn't good enough.

Okay. You know what I mean? But I was... That's a whole lifestyle choice. And my little alternative ADD school. Like, I was one of the better players, but then I was went to another school and I was the worst player, so I... Right.

You have ADD? Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Bad, you know? Yeah, really bad. Sure. Yeah.

That probably has something to do with the drugs, too. Yeah, I mean, they gave me riddling in 1997. Right. And then kept giving me shit. And they're like, this is concerta. It's like riddling, but it's better. And then they gave me that. And then I, like, transferred from that to weed.

Yeah. And I felt like I've needed something ever since. Like, I've always felt like I need something. This fucks me up. Well, yeah, ADHD, there's a part of your brain that is never turned off. Yeah. I actually went and got a brain scan, and I wanted to see. see it and um it's it's real it's like this part of your brain that other people when they do

certain things it fires off and then when they do other things it calms down but ADHD ADD we have this part of our brain i forget the name of it anyways it's just always going yeah and there's my boy said that about me the other days like i don't know anybody that just doesn't take naps like you got to chill yeah yeah and then there's like a dopamine thing too there that like we're constantly like we need like constant like gratification yeah or stimulation or whatever stimulation yeah so it's like a real thing that's why the phone's bad for me like social media is bad for me because yeah like i have to delete instagram and shit it's probably good you do yeah i i'm not i'm like i'm trying to force myself not to be addicted to the fucking it's heart

yeah that's ADD too yeah what is your like your idea of music success is it you want to take it to the very top of wherever you can take it? Yeah, who doesn't? Yeah. But I think my ultimate... It's a good answer. I think my ultimate goal, though, is now, like, just being in full realization. It's just, like, to inspire people.

And if it's inspiring, like, another musician or if it's inspiring a fan or if it's inspiring anybody, good with God, maybe. Yeah. Like, fucking... Yeah. That's what I'm here for, right? Like, we're all here to, like, inspire others, right? Yeah.

So, like, that's my ultimate success for that because I haven't seen a lot of, like, financial success with music. So I have to ask myself what I'm doing it for sometimes. And it's like, okay, you're doing it for yourself and you inspire people. Yeah. And that's great. So, like, if you can keep doing that, you know, if I can maintain what I'm doing now, like, I'm happy.

Yeah, I also think you have a good story to tell. Yeah, I think it's like, how do I make music that I love, that, expresses who I am. And every time it's different, because every record, you're, like, in a different spot at life. But I always think, like, the older I get, we just made a record. And I'm like, it took us five years to. You're putting out a new album?

Next year, we're going to put out a new record. But it took us five years to start. Damn. Because everything I'd done before that, and we have, you know, eight records or something, which is probably, to me, it's not a lot of records. To me, we should have 16. But I realized, like, in the last five years, I was like, I got to wait until I feel like I need, I got to say something or I got to make something. And then then has to express myself in a way that feels like it's me.

Like you feel like you have to. Yeah. Yeah. Some people can do it way more. But for me, it took me five years to get to that place where I was like, okay, now I want to make music. I don't know why, but I really want to make it. And then we made this record in like two weeks. Well, like, I mean, oh, you made it in two weeks.

Yeah. So it took five years to start, but then you made it in two weeks. Yeah, we may have like three days of work left on it probably. That's all it takes that spark. Yeah. It's weird how that works. Yeah. But I mean, I don't know.

I've never stopped because my dad's always like, you need to make money. You know what I mean? So I'm like, fuck, I keep going. Yeah. But like, you've hit the point to where it's feeding you while you're asleep. Yeah. So it's like, are you still doing it for yourself? You know, you might want to paint in the fucking garage.

or some shit, you know. Which my brother does. He paints and he doesn't sell any of his paintings. His paintings are amazing. He doesn't sell any of them. He just paints. And like, that's art. I like to paint and not show anybody to.

Yeah, you paint? Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Just for fun, though, you know. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. I didn't know you painted.

Yeah, that's important to make art. Yeah. I think it's something like that. I feel like I have to. Yeah. Yeah. But then also, like, whether you realize it or not, you have a depth of knowledge around

fashion. You've been around it your whole life. You've seen what it means to build a brand. You've seen what it means for people to like it, to not like it, to like it again. To, you know, what it means to be on that. It's like a cultural thing, right, when you build a brand. And you are probably naturally a creative director, a designer. You just have a depth of knowledge that, like, whether you realize you do or not, or you give yourself credit for, Floyd Mayweather, right? grew up in the gym right it's around boxers real real boxers naturally knows everything about boxing right yeah so there's like like like you're naturally also like inclined i think probably to make like some kind of uh fashion you have a streetwear brand but like i do merch right and stuff like that

but like what you're saying yeah for sure and i feel it but i also respect it so much and i respect the people that do it so much, the people that do it well. Yep. And I really like clothes. I love clothes. I'm really, like, fascinated by them. But, like, to make them, it's like, I have too much respect for the people that do it because they work their asses off in an office. I can't. I just, I won't. To me, I would say there's, like, an experiential wisdom there that says something about the integrity of, like, how you see it. You're likely, like, a giant in that way that, you wouldn't even give yourself credit for because you are the son of a giant, right? And you go, but that's integrity.

So that's to go, I have too much respect for the people I've seen my whole life doing it and I know what goes into it. Because most people are like, yeah, that's easy. And you're like, or I can do it because of my name or something like that. Right. And that's, that's integrity. Yeah. I know I won't put my all into it like I'm supposed to, like you have to, to really give the people

something good. you're going to spend over $100 for these jeans. Like, I'm not going to put in the time that makes these jeans worth over $100. I help out with brands of my friends, like, you know, creative direction and stuff. But like, me to do it, fuck. I respect it way too much. Yeah, but I'll bet you any amount of money that when the day arrives, that you have an idea that you love, that you will likely be able to do it without even

realizing that to everyone else, it looks like a magic trick because there's so much you have to learn. Yeah. There's so much you have to learn to build a brand. Right. It takes a lifetime. You grew up in that school. You were playing.

It really talks about, yeah. You know what I mean? You were that kid. You were the kid who was at the boxing gym, playing with your toys while all the boxers boxed. So whether you real, so that to me, that's the interesting thing, like when I think about it, Like likely at some point in your life, you are going to have some idea that you love that you're

excited about, that you want to activate because you care, and you're going to have a lifetime of experience and knowledge because of where you grew up, that you'll be able to do it and make it look easier than it is, not because of your name. That's your name because of your life, because of how you grew up, because of where you grew up, because of... Experience and that, yeah. Yeah, like, that's nature and nerds. You know what I mean? For sure.

It's pretty cool, I think. No, it is. And that's why I kind of am like, man, I, you know. No, I love fashion too. But that's what got me into music. Yeah. Well, they go hand in hand. Right.

So I would ask my dad, you know, like in the 90s. You know, I remember asking them in like 97 or 98, like, who's the coolest person that wears your clothes? Just being like an eight-year-old kid asking questions like that. And he's like, Snoop Dog. He's like, look at this shit. he like played me his music. He's like, isn't that cool?

And then I was in the Snoop Dog. And I was like, I want to be like Snoop Dog. Like, what the fuck? You know? Yeah. And even as I got older, I was like, I really want to be like Snoop Dogg. Yeah. Like just smoke weed all day and rap.

Like, yeah. And wear whatever the fuck I want. Like, you know what I mean? So like, I also wanted to start making music because rock and roll stars. Yeah. Could dress so cool and wear what they wanted. And nobody really questions it. Yeah.

Because it's like, oh, you're a musician. You're a little, you could be weird. Yeah, you could be yourself. But I've wanted to be fucking like that my whole life. I've wanted to wear weird shit. So I was like, oh, I have to start making music. So that's why I started making music. Yeah.

To wear cool clothes. Yeah, me too. Not feel awkward about it. Because if I was just like, wanted to be a lawyer, like, what would I wear? Right. Yeah. Yeah. You see what I'm saying?

You know what I mean? Yeah, it was like, the beginning of the tearing down the genres and tearing down like the boxes of like this is how you dress and what you listen to and what you do. And now I would say like you're in a generation of people who don't give a fuck about a genre. Yeah. It's so sick to me. Yeah. I like Chief Keefe. I like Chief. Yeah. He's like probably the newest thing I actually listen to. You know him? No, I've never met him. I've never met him either. I met Fredo Santander. You should have Chief when he was alive. You should have Chief Keith come here. Yeah, I would love to talk to Chief

Keith. I would really be interested to hear, like, what his experience has been. Because I know he is from a genius. Seems like a genius. It's just crazy. Well, I know all about the part of Chicago he's from and the kinds of experiences that he's had. I, 10, 11, 12 years ago, I was actively searching for artists to work with. And I had met a few up-and-coming rappers. from Chicago who are both gone now, which is sad. Damn. Which really makes me sad about the reality of the gang culture, the street culture, when the drill music was coming up.

Back, you know, it was like 12 years ago or something, 13 years ago, Chief Keefe was coming out. And there was all these artists and they were insanely talented, but they were from the worst place in the world. And on a crazy path, in life. And just like their reality of their life was they would come out here to LA and work. Yeah, they don't go a fuck. And you could see like they were insanely talented, hardworking, and they were up against what they had to go back to was the street in Chicago. And it was just

insanity. And it still is. It's just, it's crazy. So to me, like, it feels like Chief Keefe really, not only did he have a lot of success, he got away from all the insanity. It feels like it to me. It feels like he's really removed himself from the craziness of like the street. Probably knew he had to. I think so.

To survive. I'm friends with Fat Trell, who's close with Chief Keith. I don't know Fat Troll. That Trell's an amazing rapper, too. He's newer, he's my age, but he has songs with Chief Keefe. Yeah.

You know, he's crazy too. That's true. Makes me sad that. they have to deal with that. I mean, not just in Chicago, but Chicago in particular. It's always been like that. I had really, really gotten to like love these guys. And then they were gone. This era too, just a lot of, a lot of rappers just die. Yeah, it's a really dangerous job. Yeah. It makes me sad because there's these really talented artists that are also dealing with a reality of like violence and stuff that's just, I don't even know what to think about it.

They probably just want to make their art. Yeah. You know? To truthfully, I think most musicians, we want to make music. Yeah. We want to make music people will like. Yeah. And we want to go out and we want to tour. And we want to, there's a certain feeling you have when you're on stage. And then you get older and you realize, like, you go and play a show and all these people show up. And you're like, oh, it's kind of a generational thing. So now we should think about the show and make it a little bit more like a Rolling Stone show or something like that. that where it's not just young people, it's like generations of people. So some people wanna sit in chairs and watch and some people wanna be on the floor, you know.

Think about it like, little peep loves you guys, you know? How old was he when you guys were like popping, like when you guys were all over MTV? Like, yeah, he was like, he was a baby. It was his formative years, yeah. He was a baby, yeah. So like, I don't even see,

there's people that studied you like him later on in life. Yeah, we were big fans of his. We actually were talking about a tour together right before he passed away. Wow. And it was like, it was a real conversation. Like we were trying to figure out how we could. That would have been so cool. Yeah, it would have been awesome.

Yeah. We covered one of his songs. I know I saw that. He, I know he would have loved that too. Were you a fan of his? Yeah, I mean, I was a friend of his. Oh, wow. You know, he's like my little brother.

Oh, wow. Yeah, so we used to, you know. Wow. Yeah. But he found me. You know what I'm saying? And then we just became close like that. And how'd you guys meet?

Somebody said that he quoted one of my lyrics on, like, his Instagram and like, this kid's dope. And then I started, like, following or something. And then he hit me up and he came to my house and we started making music together and shit. And he was, he was inspired, you know, he was inspired. Like, he said he really formed the sound, like his sound around my sound and McCona's sound. Yeah. Yeah, McCona's cool.

And that's what made him start. you know making music and shit but and then I just became a fan of him because he's like he said he's inspired about me I was inspired by him yeah he was he was a cool guy you know what I mean he really I was just making like the blues on hip hop and like guitars

and like my own way but then he was coming with like inspiration from like guys like you and then like singing from his gut yeah on shit and I was like damn that shit really inspired me because I never really sang like that until I met little peep yeah you know what I mean. So he really inspired me for sure. I became a big fan of little Pete, you know.

Yeah, I was a big fan of his. As a person, too, because he's just like a sweet guy. Yeah, he was a good person. A sweet person. Yeah. Yeah. A artist. Genuine. Yeah. I find that with most artists. Beautiful soul, you know. Yeah, I find that with most artists. We all have, for the most part, I think, like, a sensitivity. We actually want people to be happy. We don't want them to be sad. We want to bring people up And we all feel, I think, misunderstood but there's a sweetness that I thought he was a real sweet guy.

Yeah, he was. Yeah, it's crazy how long it's been. So, Anna Mena. And like my music, my hair changed with me and has to be able to continue my rhythm. For so, Potion Nine, of Sebastian Professional,

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a euro at me in Shopify. coms bar records. Yeah, he would have been older in, like 28 now? Yeah.

Yeah. And he was so young. Because I was around 26 when he came around me and he was like 19 or 20. Yeah.

And I tried to take him under my wing you know, But like with helping with like the addiction stuff, but like we said with the pills and stuff like that, like I had a big pill problem. But then when I was 24, like I fucking just like you, you're going to lose everybody that loves you.

How did you beat it? Or you're just going to die. I ended up in a psych ward. Oh, wow. Because I threw away all these zanibars I had. Like I threw them down that thing. But like I ended up in a psych ward just like from quitting cold turkey, the Xanax after taking it every day for three.

three years. Yeah, that's a tough way to quit. And I got on the Xanax because I was like on the MDMA. Right. And then like to come down, we would do that shit seven days in a row. Well, that's great. And then you just want to fucking die. So you got to take Xanax to just feel okay.

You know what I mean? And then I got addicted to Xanax. And then I'll just start mixing everything. Right. Which is dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. I've always been too afraid of pills because I'm, I got like, I get, like, I get

anxious when I take any pill. Yeah. Because, I don't know. I'm just like super anxious with medicine. Also, I keep letting my dad down. Right. He was, he was. That's just hard, bro.

Yeah, you put your family through a lot when you're doing that. Yeah, so like, I have that one thing in the back of my head that maybe some addicts don't have is like, I really don't want to let down the people that believe in me. Yeah. You know, I've been to the point where I'm like, fuck everybody. And I know a lot of addicts that are just like, fuck everybody. And like, rightfully so, because everybody. everybody's fucked them, you know, but I've always had that fear of, like, taking it too far.

So once it hit the point where I'm in the psych ward and in and out of these rehabs again, you know, five, four years later from the last time, I just had like a greater fear of letting everybody down. As a parent, you would look at your kid doing that, and you only see them hurting themselves. Dude, I put my dad through hell. Yeah, and the fact that on the other side of that hell, you guys have a loving, close relationship. Sure. It's a huge deal.

A lot of people don't make it out of drugs. If they make it out alive, their relationships aren't always intact. A lot of people can destroy their lives. But I wonder if part of the success of beating addiction is someone who doesn't leave, someone who sees you through it. You know what I mean? I have no idea what I would do. God, willing.

You cut me off. You get cut off by everybody. and like that's kind of when you're like wait is this what it's like to nobody loves you you know what i mean and nobody picks up the phone for you and nothing like nobody wants to talk to you nothing i watch intervention at home i like that show just because i'm just like damn keeps me on my toes you feel it you feel it try to stay healthy like watch turn that shit on and roll out and that's reality you you see people going through their bottoms and you're like yeah i kind of i know what that feels like Dude, yeah.

I don't want to go back there. Yeah. Also, it scares the hell out of you, the older you get, because you're like, how many decisions away from death or an institution was I? Yeah. And it's scared to see a loved one like that. Yeah. So when you love, if you can imagine, also like the great healing,

the great healing experience you have as a parent is you realize what it means to love someone more than you love yourself. And you don't realize what that even means when your parent would, like, but then you start thinking about things from like a more global perspective of like it's not about me it's about like the decisions I make affect my kids my wife my this

so I think that like to have a relationship with someone that sees you through your very worst right which would probably be addiction because what do we do when we're addicted to something we lie we cheap we steal it's disgusting yeah so I'm happy you made it through that. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I'm still, I drink too many beers too sometimes,

or I fucking, I'll get too fucked up sometimes just on alcohol or like I'll smoke way too much weed or like I'll just, I'll still have ups and downs where I'm not respecting my body and like my spirit, you know, trying to escape the moment. When I'm really just supposed to be here. Yeah. I don't know. But even in the beginning, I was thinking about asking you like, when you record songs, it's not when you write songs, it's not me, it's not my brain writing the song, it's a channel from

somewhere. Yeah. It's like to get really quiet, sometimes you get fucked up or like you have a couple of drinks or like right. You know what I mean? You do something, you alter your mindset a little bit to like let the flow happen. Because my mind as soon as I start thinking like I walk out of the booth like it's fucked up. Right. It just, it's vomit.

It just comes. Yeah. You know? It's a stream of consciousness. Right. Yeah. So, like, I don't know. Drugs and alcohol sometimes make that shit easier as an artist.

So, like, I know a lot of musicians struggle with that. Probably for that, maybe. I don't know. What do you think about that? I used to maybe feel that way. Yeah. As I got older, I realized that a lot of it was anxiety. A lot of it was this idea that I thought was something that it wasn't.

And I could say now I don't need anything to tap into that. Because what you realize is like, as much as you say it isn't your brain and maybe it's not, it is still you. And you can do the same things that you could do on any substance. You can still tap into that without the stuff. You can learn how to get quiet. Yeah. And it's work. Like it's figuring out what it is that you.

you need to get quiet, you know? And some of it, you know, meditation is definitely is something that I started doing and learning how to do. That's what it is. Songwriting is like meditation, right? Yeah, and then you learn how long have you been doing that? Like 15 years.

Wow. Like since I was like early 30s. So like 12, 13, 14, 15 years, something like that. I've been dabbling into it lately. It's good. Yeah. It's a real thing. I mean, it's a real, it's proven.

It's a real thing. Learning how to do it is a whole other thing. But for me, it was like, how much energy have I put into these unhealthy things, right? Can I shift a majority of that energy into healthy things that give me maybe even more benefit? More inspiration, maybe. Work. I should be working. I should be working on three or four things at all times.

I should always be working. I used to struggle with that. Like, what are people going to think? Or everyone's going to say, of course he's going to do this or whatever. And I stopped. I stopped concerning my. myself with anyone's idea of me. And I said, I should be working on things.

I should be building things. And now I build a lot of things. Yeah. It's a practice. My health, my fitness. I go to the gym. I didn't always do that. Look for my addictions.

Is it food? Where can I shift my focus and my energy that I'm putting into bottomless pits of waste, which I think drugs is, into productivity, whatever that productivity is? And then over time, you build momentum. For sure. So it's like therapy, fitness, personal growth, whether it's meditation or listening to some stuff. I don't read.

I'm too ADD, 280, HD, too dyslexic to read. But I listen to things. I find things, you know, and I find things to replace bad habits with good habits. And then over time, and you do what you can, right? And then over time, you build momentum and you do more and you do more and you see growth. And then a decade of that, you're 34. 34. So imagine in 10 years, if you took three habits that you have right now that you said, this is a bad habit, and you owned it, right, and said, I'm going to replace that over time with

this, this, this, and that. We overestimate what we can do in a year, but we underestimate what we could accomplish in five, right? So in a year of figuring it out, two, three, four, by the time you get to five years of practice, you turn around and you're like, God damn, I have a fucking built that and done that and I'm this. And I think it's something like that. Yeah, I'm starting to get there, I think. Starting to taste some of that. Well, I think you're set up for it.

Being okay with being me. Are you still on Warner? No. Okay, are you independent? I'm independent, but I have distribution with 10K. Oh, cool. Yeah. Oh, that's great.

Yeah. Elliot. Elliot. Yeah. You guys are family now, right? Yeah, it's my family. Yeah, that's, all right. Yeah, cool.

I didn't know because somebody was like, they're related. I'm like, oh, nah. Boy, it's my brother-in-law. through marriage. Yeah. Yeah. And we're talking about Elliot Grange, who's, uh, my sister, my wife's little sister who has been, uh, I mean, I've, I've been in her life since she was seven.

So she's, she's truly like my little sister, but also, yeah, my baby sister, but also, uh, one of my best friends. I just love her as a person. I mean, she's like my, my twin. Yeah. We see the world the same. That's cool. When we have family dinner or we have.

have a holiday. Sophia and me are a sense of humor, the things that, you know, when you're a room and someone does some shit, you look at each other, you're like, what the fuck is this guy doing? Like, that's, she is that person for me. We have the same sense of humor. Yeah, you don't even have to talk. You just give the look. I'm also, like, super protective of her.

Yeah. Elliot's a great guy, huh? And when I met Elliot, I was always really hard on any guy she dated. I always, like, you know, I was always kind of whatever because. I, you know, you just like, you know how it is. You're just like, these guys. Yeah, I'm sisters, so I know, yeah. Yeah, you're just like, you don't take them.

Until you get to the next level with me as a guy, if you're trying to date one of the women around, you're just another guy. I'm like, we'll see, we'll see. Yeah. I'm not buying it until something happens, right? Right. And I always kind of avoid meeting these guys until I'm like,

if it's serious, I'll meet them. like it'll it'll have whatever and um not to say she dated a bunch of guys but i was very very critical just like i like same thing with my daughter like she's a teenager and i'm like in this generation you're probably like fuck these kids like you got to prove yourself right right fuck this so so who does he win at yeah you're like that's it you're just like you're just like you're older guy so you're like you're the fuck is it but also it's you like you fucking started the culture you just like get out of here like you like you go home I will say it's hard to become friends with me.

Right. Right. If you're that guy. Yeah. If you're that guy, yeah. I'm a guy's guy, but like in that setting. Yeah, yeah. Right?

So it's an honest approach. I'm not hating on them, but I'm like, we'll see. We'll see, yeah. That's a good way to be you. Yeah. And I finally got to meet Elliot. She brought him over to the house. Nicole's like, you got to meet Elliot.

It's like, they've been together now for like eight months or something. eight months or something. Serious, you gotta meet him. And I was like, all right, all right. So she brings him over and I'm like, they get right to the house and we walk out and I hug Sophia and then Elliot's very friendly. I was like, ah, he's already nice.

And then, but I go, all right dude, I meet him and I go, hey, let's go for a drive. So we get in the car. You and me, come on. He was like, all right, he's eight. Just you and him? Yeah, and zero. Yeah, with his glasses.

zero nerves zero trepidation he goes all right cool gets in the car and I'm like and we're driving and we just start talking and like in two minutes we are like best friends we go we drive down we go to pinkberry I don't even know what I was thinking I was like let's go to pinkberry

pick up pinkberry by the time we get to the house we got pinkberry we ask the girls if they want something and they say yes by the time we get to the house we ate all the pink berry and go back and we get back and like that's it. It's done. I love the guy. We were fast friends and truly now, it's been a long time. It's been a couple years now. Best friends. Wow. Very close. Yeah. He's a great guy. And he's a good husband.

He's a good father. He's a good guy. Also, you know, we're in the same business. We're in music from different perspectives, but we're in the same business. And we see eye to eye on a lot of things and we have a lot in common, but we also can disagree on stuff. And it's like, it's important to have friends you can talk with and disagree and get perspectives on because he holds his own. When he has an opinion, you know what I mean? It makes me respect him more. Yeah. Because he won't just like placate me and say whatever I want to say. So we're very close friends and he's one of my favorite people and with one of my favorite people. So they're one of my favorite couples because I love both of them in different ways.

That's great. That's great. That's great. So did we cover everything you want to promote? Yeah, I mean, I'm not a big shameless self-promoter. Yeah, yeah. I got my tour coming up, the stories tour. Albums out.

Albums out, the stories. Yeah. Yeah, that's about it. Best record yet? I think so. Yeah. Are you going to make another one? Fuck yeah.

Making it right now. I have a couple things I'm going to put out soon. I'm always recording. So I have so many songs. I just, I record too much. much to organize it all, you know. It's good. Yeah, we're going to put like eight or nine songs on the deluxe and just keep dropping stuff,

you know. I have a lot more music to put out. That's cool. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Good, man. Yeah. Thanks for coming.

Thanks for having me. It's great. It's great. It's great for sure. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of artist friendly. If you really liked it, you can follow, like, subscribe to the show, anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support.

And we'll see you next time.