Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Ryan Key of Yellowcard

Episode Date: November 12, 2025

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Ryan Key of ⁠Yellowcard⁠. This October, Yellowcard returned with ⁠Better Days⁠, their first full-length in nearly a decade, produced by ⁠Travis Barker⁠. “This [album] brought us into the room with nothing to start with. Just a fresh day, fresh minds, fresh idea,” Key said in the band’s ⁠AP cover story interview⁠, reveling in newfound confidence. In a conversation between two longtime peers, Key reflects on the journey that brought Yellowcard back together. He and Joel dive into healing old wounds, rebuilding trust, and navigating fame, as well as burnout, fatherhood, and self-discovery. Key also shares how a life-changing moment in the studio with Barker reshaped everything. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's just nothing. He's just playing and there's no sound. 15,000 people. And like, we've all been there. Like, you know, how 75 foot tall jumbo tron. So big. Of just him. And he was such a big show.

He played the whole thing silent. And people are like, oh, but you guys could hear it, right? We were like, no, no, it was, we were all mortified. I could feel your pain. Yeah. So, but I just love the fact that, and I've been telling that story that I told you guys, you really only need to see the intro. And then that happened.

But I will say, I saw it. I knew what. was going. We've all been there. It's like your pants get pulled down. Yes. And you're just standing there and you're like, how long till someone pulls them back up? I felt naked. And I wasn't the one out there having to just play a guitar that no sound was coming out, you know? You were talking about Vegas? Yes. How was it? When we were young? Yeah, it was when we were young. It was good. It's just so hectic, you know? Yeah. What a hectic weekend. But it's like currently definitely the biggest opportunity to play for that many people.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just insane. We played it, you know, like middle of the day at 2.45 and it was just still, you couldn't see the end of it. It was funny is I think the second day had a decent amount, like less tickets. And the first day was sold out. But the crowd, the second day was mental. More excited.

Yeah, I don't know why that is. More space for them. I guess, maybe. Yeah, more space to run around. Yes, because like the first day where you're going to be. But where are you going to start, like, getting your groove on? They really jam that crowd in there, what I noticed. 10,000 less tickets is actually good for the show.

I think it was because we had a way better show, the terms of the energy from the crowd, the second day. Yeah. Highlight was probably watching Blink from front of house the first night. It was just we were like all together. You know, our family, our wives were there. Our drummer that tours with us, his name is Jimmy Brunfist. He's from Sweden.

And I've known him for a really long time. time. I ended up producing an album for his band way back like 2012. I was just trying to get into doing that, you know. And so we've stayed friends forever and he's just a ripping drummer. And the Swedes are good musicians. They really are dude. And, uh, but him, he and his wife are the biggest blink fans on the planet earth. It's great. Like, dude, it's watching them watch blink was cooler than watching blink. Yeah. You know what I mean?

And they were standing right in front of me and they were just like holding each other and just, dude, it was beautiful. So that was really fun. Did you ever watch the movie, what about Bob? Yes,

of course. You know when he eats the dinner and he's just like, mm. Yeah. Yeah. That is like what watching someone who loves something, whether it's a band or fucking Star Wars, right?

Yeah. Going with anyone that enjoys, it's like going with my. wife to horror nights. Yes. That's like her favorite thing in the world. She waits all year long for it and she goes all the way in on it. But it's like watching anyone enjoy anything truly enjoy it. Yeah, dude. Is it a joyful experience. Well, then if and when we, well, I guess Starfighter with Gosling, the new Star Wars movie when that comes out, you got to come with me and watch me watch it. Okay. Because you love it? I'm a Star Wars. Yeah, it's my religion. Star Wars? Yeah.

Really? Yeah, I've known that about you. Yeah, I've been hosting a, I've stepped off for a while just because we've gotten so busy, but for three or four years, I was a host on a podcast called Thank the Maker. It's myself, Adam Russell, the basis of Story of the Year, and Nick Amberry in the basis of Bayside, and it's just a fully only Star Wars covering podcast. And it does really well. They're still going strong at like 400 episodes or something. I love Star Wars, too. And it's been so cool, man. We've had like real, real Star War on the podcast. Like we had Ashley Eckstein, who's the voice of Assocato. Wow. The Clone Wars. We had James Arnold Taylor who does Obi-1 and the Clone Wars and tons of other stuff.

Like if you ride Rise of the Resistance at Disney World, the pilot, I forget what his name is, but the pilot of the ship that takes you up, that's James Arnold Taylor's voice too. So he does lots of different voiceover stuff. But we had them, Emily Swallow, who played the Armourer on the Mandalorian was on the show. So it's been like, it started out as us just like, let's talk about Star Wars because we love it. And then it kind of got real. So we've gone to Star Wars celebration in London and Tokyo and done all the colors. covered the shows and it's been really fun. But yes, I love it. My poor child is going to, you know, he's coming right up on like two, three years old where it's going to start getting indoctrated. It's about to get fun. It's about to get fun because I would say like four to 12. It's prime Star Wars. That's the Star Wars window. I can't wait. And my son and me enjoyed like every

single Star Wars movie from every new one that came out. Yeah. We're not like, because I have a kid, I got to enjoy it. I got to like watch it. I got to like watching. again from his eyes. That's, dude, that's key. And we talk about that all the time on the podcast that all these crotchety old, you know, like the new stuff isn't. We love the new stuff. It's like you have to look at it through the lens of Star Wars was always made for

kids. Yeah. George Lucas created it from like his inner child and you can read it. You can just read about it. Read where he was inspired, what he was inspired by. You know, the like sci-fi serials he was watching on TV when he was a kid. And so, yeah, there's things I don't love about. I mean, all of it.

films. And even further, like, modern approaches to some old things is going to have things that, like, people who have married themselves to the old idea, of course they're not going to like some stuff. It's never going to be good enough. But if you just make yourself 10 years old again and watch it, how can you not be blown away? It's got lightsaber and stormtroopers and. Yeah. Blaster bolts. Like, that's, come on. I think rise of the resistance is the best ride it. Oh, it's so good, man. It's so good. It's so good. Yeah, I love taking people on that for the first time, especially if they're Star Wars fans.

Oh, you're going to love this then. We just did randomly, I swear, like, we had four days to prepare. Someone dropped out of the Disney Christmas special. Okay. And the lady that books it or whatever knows my brother and Joey and Jen at MDDN from a management perspective, like they booked some other things with her at some other ABC or something she does the booking. Anyways, she was like, we need, can good Charlotte come, we need someone to perform in front of the Millennium Falcon for the Christmas special. What? And we were like,

yes, we'll be there. And then we had to like throw together. Yes, let me call yellow card. Yeah, yeah. Well, had I known, honestly would have. Dude, that's so awesome. Because we were, we put together a Christmas song because Christmas songs are tough. Yeah. You're like trying to find something. Especially like writing an original one. Yeah, well, it wasn't original. We had to do a cover. And they gave us a long list of songs they'd cleared and all that. And you're going through all the songs and you're trying to find something that you could as a 46 year old man stand on stage, like sing and like, you know what it means? And we're like, okay, like, which song could we do? We found one and we're like, okay, now like, now we have to learn it and do a rendition of it.

Yeah. And it was four days, kind of, not of hell, but like, I get super anxious. And so then my anxiety plays out like a little bit more like unpleasant. Yes, dude. we could talk about that as we get into this. Edgy and unpleasant. Yes. And it's mostly with my brother. So we contain it, which is good for business in the sense of like if I'm going to be the friendly frontman,

which usually I am because it's a fun job, fun, whatever. But like when I'm nervous about something and I wanted to go well, it's coming from a good place. Yes. But I'm anxious. I know, dude.

And then I'm just like, and they're like, he was kind of a dick. And I'm like, no, I was anxious and you caught me when I should have just been alone. I mean, getting off of playing in front of the Millennium Falcon and into that, which is a little heavier.

That's been such a huge part of our band, getting back into being a band and the success that we're having and making the record and talking about it, doing stuff like this and talking about it. I'm just fully open about the knowledge that people thought I was a real piece of shit back in the day. Really? Because, you know, it'll never go away. I mean, the end of this is a positive thing because it's like learning and, finding, you know, doing the work and finding the tools to deal with this. But same. I have such a reactive personality. And combining that with, and I think I've had that like since childhood. It's,

you know, my dad, I love him so much, but I got it, I got it from him, man. Is he an edgy intense guy? Yes. If he's not in a good place, you know it, you know. And that, and I inherited that. And he, same as me. He's now later in life, he's worked on it. And he's, you know, but I think you imitate that no matter what. If that's what you grow up watching. Of course. But I've learned a lot from him about how to be better about it too because he was, he recognizes it and realizes it. But anyways, back when we were first starting out, I mean, not even necessarily when,

when, you know, Ocean Avenue happened and everything got really over the top. Even when we were just touring around in the Vanda trailer, like, I always carried that anxiety. And a lot of that came from insecurity too. It was like, I was a theater kid my whole life. Musical theater was my least favorite part of being a theater kid. Like singing was like my least favorite. I had a band with my friends on the weekends.

It still had to be the singer. You know, like, you can't be the singer. I have to be the singer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I hated singing. This is a really weird thing, but... Lead actor. But I, yeah, sure.

Yeah, I carried, you know, all of this, like, insecurity and sort of like, what are you doing? Like, you're gonna be, you're gonna be in a band full-time, and you're singing. And then it got big, it got really big, really fast, and it got worse for me, because then I really had this like imposter syndrome going on. And if, you know, if a monitor would feed back,

or if a guitar was out of it, a tune or if something in a big pressure moment at a big show or whatever, I did not have the tools to keep it contained as you just said. Like I would just explode. I thought you handled it really well in Brazil. Thank you. Remember when that your ears weren't on? That's a let's hear a tangent story like real quick. And that's a good example of I meditate now. Yeah. And it's really helped me. I meditate too. Really helped me in moments like that. Yeah. To recognize what's happening. I can't stop it. I'm about to trip. But I'm not going to. I'm going to let it pass on through. But that night, funny, I hadn't seen

you guys in forever. And you were about you were like, we can only watch a couple songs because we were playing after you. And I was like, yeah, no worries. But so we're doing this big, epic, top gun theme intro. It was great. And our, Ryan Mendez, our guitarist, is an absolute face melting guitar player. And so it's really fun because he gets a chance to just go out there and absolutely shred. And so on the first night in Brazil, you were like, yeah, we can only watch a couple songs. And I literally said out loud, it's okay. You really only need to see the intro. I said that out loud. And then we were having trouble getting our guitars working properly. And then all of a sudden we heard them. So we're like, okay, they're good. Let's go because we were getting yelled

out to go. And as soon as they, you know, press play on the click and everything, it like reverted and they weren't working anymore. And poor Ryan, the first show in Brazil since 2012, there's 20,000 people there or whatever in Kurtiva. And he had to walk out there and where it's supposed to go. It's just nothing. He's just playing and there's no sound. 15,000 people. And like, we've all been there. Like, you know, how 75 foot tall Jumbotron.

So big. Of just him. And he was such a big show. He played the whole thing silent. And people are like, oh, but you guys could hear it, right? We were like, no, no, it was, we were all mortified. I could feel your pain. Yeah.

So, but I just love the fact that, and I've been telling that story that I told you guys, you really only need to see the intro. And then that happened. But I will say, I saw it. I knew what was going on. We've all been there. Of course. It's like your pants get pulled down.

Yes. And you're just standing there and you're like, how long till someone pulls them back out? I felt naked. And I wasn't the one out there having to just play a guitar that no sound was coming out, you know? We all know that every single one of us who have been doing this longer than five years. Yes. Have been in that situation.

For sure. And I thought you guys handled yourselves. I appreciate it. Again, I think it comes for experience. Yeah. Where if you've only been doing this for five years. and you have that happen, you likely come off stage and rip everyone's heads off and yell at everyone. But when you've been doing this long enough, you know that the acts of God, which we can't control,

the weather, the shit cuts out. You guys have a competent team, your twin team. You guys have been touring fucking forever. You've done a thousand shows and you've dealt with that. So something like experience comes in, but also I saw it happen and I was like, they handled that really well. So it made me like you guys more and respect you more. I really appreciate. hearing that because again, it's been a pretty long road in terms of like learning about why I was so reactive back in the day and knowing that I made a really bad impression on a lot of people. But I would rather admit to that and like mend if possible. If I come across someone who maybe had a poor experience, poor interaction with me, I would love the opportunity always to be like,

listen, I'm going to tell you why. I'm not going to give you any excuses. I'm just going to tell you I've learned why, you know, I was such a reactive, anxious person. I mean, because now you know you have those things and they're still there. But once you can recognize that they're there, it's so much easier to have an understanding about them. And again, like, kind of to the idea of meditation of like letting those thoughts happen and exist, but you don't have to act on them. It's been a huge lesson for me.

That's fucking cool, bro. Thanks, man. You want to know what? I think, I do. I think that anyone worth mending fences with. you'll be able to. Yeah, I agree. I agree with that.

Because we all have to, especially in like entertainment, right, music and this thing, there's different kinds of relationships. There's like the relationship you have with this weird thing that you did at a young age. And you were also kind of like

made to feel like it wasn't that important when it actually was. Yeah. And you were also made to think it wasn't that special when it actually was. Yeah. And you were also made to think like you didn't really.

do it like it was these other people? It was this label or was this or is that and you didn't really do it. So there's all these weird aspects of like, so the imposter syndrome, which we all have, we all come into this with low self-esteem. Most of us were like weird outcastish. That's part of why you start doing it. That's why you do it. You're finding a place to be. And then you have some talent and then you apply that talent and then you start doing something and then you achieve something that is unheard of, right? That's what it was. It's not only was it special, it was virtually impossible, right? So you did that. And then the information you're receiving through implied messages. Yeah. Not just the audible things. It's this implication,

this implied stuff by the way the adults are all talking to make you feel like you actually didn't do it and it's this and it's going to the radio and it's this and it's doing that and it's doing this instead of like, oh no, these group of kids that are talented got together. They put their to something, they organized, they cooperated, they came up with a plan, they started going towards something and they navigated a very virtually impossible situation to achieve something great. And now we're not all calling it great because if we do, they might get too big headed. And then what will happen if they do that? Well, we'll all get fired and then we'll blah, blah, and that's the nature of the music business.

Yes. That's why we started a management company because we wanted to write those wrongs and we wanted to be the guys we wish we would have met. would just like tell us how things work and be straightforward. Yeah. So in a really weird business, if you come into it with some injuries and some deficiencies and some weak spots and then you're not nurtured to grow, you're not. You're infantilized by people who want to keep their jobs.

Then you act like a child and we all did it in some way, in some way, shape or form. We all did. We acted like children. and we weren't nurtured. We weren't encouraged to grow. We weren't encouraged to grow the fuck up. Right. And then, well, what happened?

Well, we went through the whole thing and we all had our careers. And then the whole music industry died around 2011. And from 2010-11 to 2015, the changeover happened from MP3 on a computer, on a website, people ripping it and stealing it to streaming. Then streaming became Spotify. I mean, we broke up. Right. Everyone did.

Right. You know, credit to Fall Out Boy. They were like the only ones. They survived. We just stayed at it. Yep. Stayed chipping away. Yeah. On the trip to Brazil, me and Pete and Patrick, Matt Como was there, Benj was there, Paul was there, Billy was there.

We were sitting in a lounge on a layover from Brazil. We talked about that. We gave, we told them. We were like, from 2011 to 2015, everybody, the whole thing died. Everyone said you're done. Mm-hmm. that's when they like came back from their hiatus and we said that to them we were like right you guys were like the only ones who just kept chugging along and and we give you guys a lot of credit

for doing what you've done and they were and it was nice they were like wow no one's ever said that to us well and it's interesting too because they really changed their sound at that time in such a big way and we've all been we've all experimented with that to not much six you know not much positive reception i think too or a lot of us have But they just got bigger. They were like, we're just going to do this instead because we can read the room. And it worked, you know. To hear them say it, their experience wasn't exactly.

They say there were moments where it wasn't bigger and it did feel like failure and it did feel like we didn't know what we were doing. And I was like, but the important thing was you just kept getting back up and doing it. And what I learned in that time was, oh, no, no. know, we're not supposed to stop. We thought we were supposed to stop. What we're supposed to do is take a knee, catch our breath, which is what we were actually doing. We, we at, again, at a young age, and this is me personally, I'm not saying you. Yeah. Somewhere in like 19 or 20 when we started touring to then 21, we got our record deal, then 22 we had a hit, went on that roller coaster ride, I stopped growing and I stayed like 21 maybe. And I had a young brain. And

that's what this thing will do if you're not aware of it. Correct. And then somewhere in my 30s, like early 30s in that like 2012 and I met my wife, I started growing again because I had a wife and a kid was born and the kid forces you to grow. So you're responsible for them. And then you get plugged back into growth. And then I think when you come back. Back to this with a mindset of accountability, growth, and it's a bit more plugged into the reality of the thing. You can actually work from a more real place. I think you can enjoy it more. 100%. I have the same exact story just later. The 2010s for us, we had really gotten into a place where financially we had to just non-stop. I mean, if we were not on the road,

It was barely what we could do. Right. You know, so we signed with hopeless records. They were amazing. But we would do a record. We'd go out for like nine months. 2011, we're out nine, ten months. Came back directly in the studio.

Another record. 2012, we're out eight, nine months, done back in the studio immediately and did the 10-year anniversary Ocean Avenue acoustic record thing we did. Went right back out and toured that. By the time we were done with all that, we made a record that was really, outside the box for for our band and it fell pretty flat on its face my favorite record we've ever made but it just wasn't when people were looking for it from us you know and that's okay though it is it is because i again it's my favorite record that's it but then that so 2014 15 the decline was

very steep in terms of how are we going to actually keep making a living that's worth being away from home for 10 months a year still yeah that's 15 years in i rather just go get a job you know yeah and so So Sean, our violinist, he had kids first. And he was just like, dude, I'm done. I can't do this anymore. And we had to come to a really hard decision that it was time to step away from the band and not to take a break. But when the whole, like, all bands break up and come back, we dissolved our LLC.

We shut it down. It was like the storage unit with the gear, get what you want. Because if whatever's left, we're donating to music schools and stuff. We were done. and it was one of the best tours we've ever done because we put a lot of thought, I think, and time into like how do we say goodbye properly and do this. So the tour crushed and we hadn't had a tour crush in a long time. And that was it, you know, goodbye yellow card.

As good as a tour was, though, it was such a sad time in our lives and in my life. You know, speaking for myself, I was just so sad and I felt so lost in terms of like, who am I without this? And like my role in it. What do I do now? And I fought really hard after that in 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 to keep making music. That was really important to me. And it was really hard.

And I got back in a van with like one with my buddy who was my guitar tech and yellow card. And, you know, put work gloves on and was humping gear upstairs into bars to play on my little solo EP's I released. I just did it because that's that I had to keep playing music and writing and recording music. When the pandemic hit, that's for me when everything you just said about really growing is when it started. Because I ended up in a situation where I was kind of back in Florida close to my parents during that whole time. So I was taking the pandemic pretty seriously, you know, in terms of just my parents' health and not wanting to put them at risk. And I was really alone, dude. I was just on my own.

It's when my journey and meditation really started. I had a good friend who was already kind of going down that path and was like, I'm going to share this. with you, take it or leave it, but I think you would really benefit from it. So I started that in 2020 and having that time to myself and starting that process of like expanding my brain to sort of understand what's going on inside of it and why. What followed is so evident. Like the positive change in my life is so obvious and documented and like you can just see I, you know, the pandemic ended. I started to have a decent successful run on my own doing a lot of on like, streaming and like building this kind of online community of yellow card fans who were getting involved

in that with me and it was going well and I was making a living again and then the phone call came to play riot fest in 2022 with yellow card at that point Sean and I hadn't spoken to each other in six years. Oh wow. So there was a lot of healing and a lot of discussion that needed to happen. But was it kind of a painful like parting of waste? Yeah, it was. It was not just to imagine. It was not. I've only experienced both you guys as like easy, nice. But I guess when you're in that together. There's a lot of stuff. I mean, collectively, the energy was so bad that it wasn't just about me and Sean. It was just like no one wanted to be there anymore at the end in 2015, 16. And so we did, we had to have a lot of conversations, all of us, all four of us did. And we did,

like adults. We went into this, this time around just before Riot Fest, which by the way, at the time was, we'll do this show and we'll see how it goes. Because it seems like a really tall order to just be a band again after everything. we've been through and after shutting it down like that. But one of the things I remember the most about like, you know, all of us being on the phone together for the first time was the idea that we needed to find a way to be more kind to each other and that we needed to be more kind to ourselves. You know, I think I brought up what I had sort of been working on and kind of making assurances to them that I was not the same person that would get off stage and lose my

mind and scream and yell at everyone. That I had kind of figured out where a lot of that stuff came from and was trying to learn how, you know, learn how to have the tools to deal with that better. And that I would be more, I would be a better friend and business partner and bandmate to work with. And I gave, you know, I'm giving you my word that if we do this, I'm going to do that. And everyone was like, me too. You know, let's all focus on that. And we, you know, we have. It's been the dialogue and like the open communication in the band never before didn't exist. It's there at every turn now. Everyone's able to just be like, hey, you guys, could we all talk? I haven't thought or an idea. Even if it's for like a set list or if it's like, this is

really bothering me. Can we talk about it's just totally different in terms of how our personal relationships work together. So we did Riot Fest and we're playing Ocean Avenue all the way through for that show. That's kind of what they asked us to do. We hadn't seen. each other. Ryan and Josh and I had seen each other a lot, but I hadn't seen Sean in a long time. So this is the first time we're all in person together. And I remember we played through the record like twice on the first day of rehearsal. And we had like three days of rehearsal booked because, you know, and we all were just kind of like, are you good? I think we're good. I think we're ready to play the show. And it was cool because then we spent the rest of

the time sitting and talking and exploring where we all were in our lives after that long time apart, you know, six, seven years apart. And that led us into the biggest tour we've ever done in our career, summer of 2023. You know, I remember Live Nation was like, here's these amphitheaters you're going to play. We're like, what do you mean? We broke up because we couldn't sell out a house of blues anymore. What are you talking about? And they were all like, you just got to trust us, man.

It's the time. It's time. And yeah, it was so then after that tour, it was like, okay, boys, we got to figure out how we're going to do this thing again. Flash forward now. Yes. Touring's bigger than it's ever been. Number one song on radio, which you never had.

Yep. I don't think you ever had that. We did not. Okay. So why I like to talk about this stuff, which, and I'm really fucking pleasantly, I'm going to say surprised because I didn't know what to expect. We actually haven't spent a lot of time together. We've been around each other a lot.

Yeah. But we have never really had a chance to sit down and talk anywhere. It might be life's way of divine timing. Yeah. And you end up, I've learned to trust this in my older age, just like you. I've gone through my own process of a bunch of things. But I've got the attitude now. where I'm right where I'm meant to be, wherever I'm at.

Yep. I lean into how I feel. I make decisions on feeling everything, even as a band. We just decide, I like that idea. That's cool. Let's do that. And it's very intentional though. So we don't calculate things.

Yeah. We just go all that. I like that. And I've learned in trust timing too. And so if I end up with sitting with someone who I've been around for 20 years, but never actually got to know you more than in passing and very pleasant, which has always been my take on you's always been like very nice and easy um i appreciate that you guys i've always thought you guys were nice and i thought you were great i loved your music in the 2000s when

we were in our thing too really in those like making those records every other year and going and touring and all that i always thought you guys as a band had the better songs you were one of those bands with the better songs then when that record came out i wore that record out Like, well, we owe a lot of that to Neil Avron, our producer. He was like, yeah, he's great. Like, you guys have a lot of talent in here. Let me show you how to write a song properly. Yeah.

Maybe this is when we were meant to, like, know each other deeper than, I mean, you know, surface level highs and how's it going and good to see you guys. Yeah. I feel like there was something, and we talked about this, like you guys kind of coming over to say what's up in Brazil. We were like, man, that's rad. We haven't seen them in a long time and just to have that moment before we played. And then when the call came in for this Australia tour, the Australia tour, dude, I mean,

obviously I can't thank you enough for the opportunity, but like, oh, we couldn't thank you guys enough. But it just, I just feel like there is really something to what you're saying. Like, I think it sounds like mentally we're really aligned in terms of our, you know, the evolution of our mental health and like how it affects the way we interact with other. and especially others within our immediate orbit in terms of band and crew and everything. And so, yeah, I'm, I mean, I'm stoked to be here hanging. And I think, dude, I think the Australia thing is when it's just going to be amazing.

It's going to be amazing. And we're just stoked. You guys are coming with us because our idea for the Australia tour was like, let's give people the biggest ticket they could. Like we let, like we're not going to Australia to make money. We're going to Australia. Neither are we. You know what I mean?

I know that. I know that. And so. And you guys have been amazing at accommodating that. But we were struck at how quickly you guys said yes, because that tells me the same thing. Yeah. It's someone who's thinking bigger than these five shows or however many shows it ends up being. Who knows?

Right. It's someone who sees what we're trying to deliver is something that's outside of us. It's this like bigger show for fans coming and having like something they'll remember. versus like just another tour with the bottom line. Yeah. Right. There are some tours you go out and there's a bottom line. There's a balance to how do you build a big, larger than life business and not go broke doing it and make a living?

There's a lot of things you have to balance. But you have to pick your moments and shots and try to like for us live has become really about trying to create a legacy, not just our band. see this kind of era of music we come from being way more important than anyone ever said it would be. And we always felt it was. Right. But it's like now it's getting even a bigger moment in the sun. What people don't realize is it's bigger now than it was then. It just felt big then. I know. And don't you feel like the bands that, you know, you listen to as a kid, if they came back 20 years later, it just, it would be like, oh, did you see death leopards doing a tour? You know, and you go and it's the one thing at the stadium. And then that's it. That's not what's happening here.

Yeah. With 20 year later bands. Every one of our peers, Ryan Phillips from Story of the Year said a really cool thing in an interview in Brazil that I saw where he basically kind of referenced that the idea that rising tide lifts all boats. In stark contrast to 2003, four, five, six, whatever, where it, like it or not, it did feel. It was competitive. Yes. It was like there's one deal. Who's getting it?

In an unhealthy way. Yeah, yeah. And now that was the adults, though. I know, but now it's not. It's just not. Like, if one of us has great success, it's pulling so many people back into, you know, the music that we all make. And yeah, I just, I agree. It's like, you don't want to get too far ahead of yourself, you know, like that, like you're

kind of talking about living in the moment and making decisions based on how you feel in that moment. That's another thing that we all talk about a lot. So this tour, for example, is a tricky one because one of the things we're most excited about doing the tour is what it might mean for us to go back and headline in Australia, you know. But at the same time, we're like, but don't, don't get too focused on that. Just focus on this amazing moment that this tour is going to be. But this implies that. Sure. But that should be enough. And then you let it pass on by. So I agree with you. And I'll add that you can have both.

Yeah. So while not being married to a result, I can imagine what the result might be. And I can be excited about that possibility. Sure. And likely that possible some version of that possibility will come to fruition. Sure. If I'm looking that way, I likely go that way. Yes. If I look that way, I likely go that way. Right. So we got to look where we want to go. I think part of the trick too, though, is, and I used to not be very good at this either, is being kind to yourself if that thing doesn't happen. That's the part that we all have to work on though, is we had to learn how to separate out our past injury and disappointments in life with our present. So we had to right size it, right?

So only through therapy have I learned how to measure and go, okay, okay, this disappointment is not this old disappointment where my dad left and I got evicted and I was broke and I went through this painful thing and my mom told me this. And like, okay, this is the size of that disappointment. Right. Right. This disappointment is more like a this. Right.

So I can have a more right sized reaction to it. So that one. Oh, that was disappointing. 100%. Also, one thing I've learned in my career, but it came through the same work, I think, is, okay, I got outside of the thing that I was in that I thought was going to make me valuable, special, likable, lovable. I thought, if I can make it with Good Charlotte, started it when I was 16, I was,

just broke and felt like a loser and had no self-esteem. And then if I can make it, I'll be special. Everyone will love me. And then I'll be lovable. And then I'll meet someone and they'll love me. And then everything will be better. And that's truly, if I'm being honest, where I was coming from. And then I'll have money. And then I'll be valuable. And then I'll be special. Okay. Then I got all of it. And then still didn't feel special. Still didn't feel valuable. So when I was anxious. What did I act like? I acted like not special, not valuable. And, you know, don't look at me. Right? Yeah. You see the real me? Yes. I'm a weak, right? And then I go work on myself and I get away from Good Charlotte and I go through the process and I start this and I start doing this. I start doing that.

And then I learn, oh, actually, if you point towards something, work really hard, try to be smart, be honest, humble yourself to do the work. When we started MDDN, it was me and Benj and an assistant and no one would fucking talk to us. Right. And it was like, what are you guys doing? And we're like, we're doing this thing. It was like very humbling going on those like sales calls, right? Getting in a van and pumping your gear up again. And like 20 years in. We found this band and we're doing this and we're telling people. And of course they were like, what are you doing? I don't blame them. Like we're starting a new idea. It takes time. But what I learned was through marriage of having kids and through therapy. Thank God for like teachers and meditation and other teachers.

You find your people who are like growth oriented and like a well-being type people is, oh, that's my self-esteem. Yep. I have to find, I have to learn to love myself and then I have to grow up, be responsible for myself, take account. And then over time, start doing that long enough. It's like counting calories. Yeah.

You know, it's like accountability. Yeah. Right. Then you start to get some understanding and momentum and awareness of yourself. Mm-hmm. And then you grow. And then your kids start going and your marriage is longer and you start to see like the adult emerges and you're in this real life in Good Charlotte's great. But it doesn't define me.

That's where the real success lies. Right. In the end. In the personal. Yeah. And you actually having that discovery and that awareness and going to someone who maybe you felt you were a dick to go up to him. Hey, I'm really sorry about the way I acted. I was going through some stuff.

It doesn't excuse it. but I just want to make amends or hopefully, you know, you can hear me at least. Yeah. And I'll bet you the experience has been somewhere. Someone said, hey, man. Wow. Thank you. 100%.

That's cool. It has been that way. And, you know, and I've had the chance to do that in some places that really mattered, you know? Pretty powerful. For sure. You know, a person that I have recently learned a lot about this from is Travis Barker. Oh, wow.

Making the record with him. Oh, cool. Because I went into that fighting a lot of these, at least on the kind of insecurity and, you know, what are you doing here? A lot of those demons kind of like reared their heads going into that process. Yeah, of course. I hadn't done a yellow card record in 10 years almost. And in terms of my own music I create or produce, record, it's not really rock and roll anymore. And I'm trying to get into film scoring and I do a lot of ambient instrumental stuff.

It's just kind of where it's what I love. Cool, yeah. What I love. Yeah. And so. Star Wars, nerd. Sure. Sure.

Star Wars nerdy shit. Come on, man. So if we're going to make a record, it just, there has to be a story to this thing. These songs have to be just the best shit we've done in decades. It has to be or else don't make one. What's the point?

And then in those conversations appears Travis Barker wants to produce your record. You know, so day one, I'm walking in and I'm already like, can I even write yellow card songs anymore? And I'm watching this guy who I'm getting, to know, but you know, you want to talk about like irons in the fire, dude, or like, or, you know, multitasking at a level that you can't even imagine. I mean, I bet you're pretty amazing at it

too because of what you're doing here. Like, I think Travis is exceptional. It's a lot, dude, what he's, you know, managing in his life. I think he's one of the, I do not know Travis well. I don't know where he sleeps. I know I'm in passing, okay? Like, look, we have a very nice, familiar relationship in passing. Like, you see each other will have a nice talk. And I think he's, a really nice guy. Yep. I admire him. I think he's an exceptional person.

He is. Think about this. And then I'll let you finish. Yeah. But I'm giving him the same flowers you are probably like I'm saying. He's taken something to be a drummer. Mm-hmm. He's made it an aspirational accomplishment to be a great drummer.

Yep. And he's made it, he's created a model for people to follow and people have. Yeah. Of what a drummer can be. And now certainly there's been famous drummers, from other bands because they're great musicians. He's an exceptional musician.

Yeah. And he's like one of the best drummers of all time. But what he's made the career path of what a musician and a drummer can be. Yeah. With what he's accomplished is aspirational. And that's what I always look at is like, it's like, Shohei Otani. What can a baseball player be? Well, they can be a pitcher or they can be a batter who plays a position really well.

Yeah. And like, Shohay's like, nope, I'm going to be everything. I'm going to do it all. Right? And that's what Travis has done for, drumming and I don't know if enough people give him credit for what he's done for rock and roll over the last 10 years when rock and roll was dead yeah and he again like a fallout boy there's a few others kept their feet moving and kept blazing kind of a trail for the people behind him

so I look at him like that I just I think he's exceptional he is and and I coming into the studio while I was feeling all these things I had this you know really conscious thing of like you cannot you cannot show this. You know, you can't let, there was a pedestal still. You know, I was like, you can't let Travis Parker see you get upset. You can't.

And healthy respect though for the. But it happened early once. I was, I was trying to get a vocal and it was not going well. And I lost your shit a little bit. I didn't like lose my shit. I just was so visibly frustrated and kind of like in a I give up.

Yeah, yeah. Mentality. That's me. And, you know, talk back off. Travis comes in. And we've known each other for at this point, like known each other for two weeks or three weeks of our life. Comes into the booth, man, and just sits down with me and talks to me about not being hard

on myself and most importantly being like, I'm here, dude. Like, I'm not just going to be like walking in to check on you guys. I'm making this record with you. I'm in this or I wouldn't have asked you to be here. I believe in you. I'm going to sit here as many takes as it takes. That's what I do. And I was like, pretty awesome.

Bro. I mean, it was a life-changing thing because I'm like thinking. about how many things or how many plates that guy has spinning all day every day. But again, this is kind of pedestally to talk about him this way. And I don't, I don't want it to be taken the wrong way. He's on a podium. Yes. He's got a bunch of gold medals hanging around his neck. Correct. And so to feel seen and respected and connected in a creative way like that right off the bat, I immediately was like, that is never going to happen again through the rest of this process. You are never going to go to a negative headspace.

you're going to step away from the microphone and make some tea relax for a minute come back try it again i feel like i i did really well at like keeping that met up but it was really just that one conversation turned it for me and then again watching his work ethic and how invested he was in our record you know it's like if he had to be like i got to go take this call for whichever many brand you know of the empire yeah that he had to go work on but i'll be right back he's back he's in the he's in the room got there before any of us left after we all you know left last every night. Yeah, he's a killer.

He's a killer. I don't know when he sleeps. But it was a really, I think it was a really cool addition to all of the other things that I've tried to work on for myself was him being put in my life to kind of be a good example of how to be a good dad, how to have a good work ethic, how to stay unbelievably positive no matter what, just the billboard of PMA. And I learned a lot. I learned a lot in the studio.

And I mean, man, I again, too, I think all this stuff, all that positivity, all these lessons, they're manifesting. I mean, look, we're going to play 15,000 seed arenas with you in Australia. It keeps getting cooler. Yeah. It's like this stuff keeps getting better and better. And that has to be connected with. It's 100% connected.

It's absolutely wherever you point and shoot is where it goes. Yeah. And everywhere you look is where you go to. And so you've got to always check in with where you're looking. Yeah. And because if we get in our own head and we start looking down, we will. go down. So bad at that. You know what I mean? But so am I. Yeah. And what Travis did, which is important to kind of notice, right? Because it tells me a lot about him too, because he's a, he's an animal.

He is. He's an instinctive. You can tell he's, he's not sitting there calculating everything. No. He feels and goes. Yeah. And it's like, there's a natural kind of like killer in him. He's been around anyone in the world you could think up from the, from the most famous to the this, to the most gangster, to the most street, to the most this, to the most that. The whole spectrum. So he's a master class on humanity. Yes.

And characters and working in this environment. And he sees things probably, he gets there really fast, faster than the average doctor, probably, or therapist. That's the thing is what we do, it gives us experience with people

that give us skills that something like therapists have or doctors have. we're around so much different kinds of interactions with people. I think we cram a lot more life experience in in a shorter time than most human beings. Right. So what Travis did was stop, call a time out and have like a therapeutic conversation with you about your process because he saw something. And because you're smart, right? This is why you're successful. You're the same. You have natural instincts. You go to to the win, not the loss. Even if you went to the win,

you won and then you went to the loss because you couldn't believe the win was real and you were trying to test it or whatever you were doing. Like we've all blown up our own shit somehow, some way, somewhere. But the winners get back on track. If you have that natural drive towards the good and you're a manifester. So you manifested your career. You dreamed it and then you got together with your guys and you guys talked about it. You cooperated. You tried. You tried. You tried. And then it started happening. And it felt like magic, but it wasn't. It was like years of work. And it was. So if you think about that, if you were not smart, you'd go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks, Travis. And you wouldn't hear it. Right. And you go right back to what you were doing.

Yeah. But because you're open and you're smart, you hear him and go, oh, he's communicating something to me. Yes. That he thinks is important. And all right, I'm going to try that. I'm going to, that's a great fucking reminder. Yeah. And I've already been working on it. Right. And so those are moments you would not, what I'm saying is you got there and you were, and you were ready. And I say this for people listening. So all this is, it sounds like we're just like going deep on something. But actually what I'm trying to pull out most of the time is for someone listening who doesn't have thousands of dollars for therapy, who doesn't get to hang with Travis Barker, who's like I said, exceptional, who doesn't get to hang with Ryan from Yellow Card. I'm trying to

extract ideas that are real from exceptional people like you and Travis and everyone else so that people listening get the gold in their day to day life when they're in their car or they're going to a job maybe they hate or they're starting something and they're nervous because they don't know if they can do it or they're doing the same thing we do because we're all humans and we do the same shit as each other because we are all kind of on the same level just some of us have experienced more yeah and what Travis did and you received and then you applied to it and then you made a great record where you have a number one song and you're having bigger shows than you've ever had in your life. And you're going towards your more success, not your less success,

is by being open to the idea that you can grow, that you can go up, that it all doesn't stop here, that this isn't the last record you'll make. This isn't the last show you'll play. This isn't the last thing you'll have and getting out of the poverty of, this is the only one I have. So I'm not sharing it with anyone. Right. This is the only tour we're ever going to do. So we're not sharing it with anyone. Yeah. Right. Instead of that, we're going, no, no, this is more leads to more leads to more. And it all kind of gets bigger if we let it. We don't get in our own way.

And so how do I do that? How do I get out of my own way? Well, I listen to people like Travis and other people around me that have had success in different areas that I'm inspired by and other teachers around me that actually just, or my family and friends who I love who don't give a fuck if I'm in this band. They just want me to be happy. And I point upwards and I try. And then I try to correct my mistakes.

and I always try to ask myself, am I thinking big enough? Am I being generous enough? Am I being positive enough? Optimists always do better, period. For sure. Across the board. Yes.

Friendly people have more friends. I wish I was one. I'm trying, you know, but I'm learning to be one. It can be learned. It can be learned. Absolutely. It's a muscle.

Yes, you could rewire. And it starts when we're young. Like, you didn't choose. When I say I wish I was one, I just mean like I have all this old baggage of not being optimistic. You're working against it. Yes. And so somewhere back from zero to 18, yeah. The messages were overwhelmingly more negative than positive. I had it because of poverty, you know, addiction and all the things that my family struggled with. It was one big negative

message after another. And so by the time I was 18, if I didn't have my brother, I would have thought nothing was possible. Yeah. But our little escape from all the negative was just this little world we had together where we wrote songs and we dreamed about the band being big and then you saw it play out when we got on we got all the fucking shiny clothes and we were like all the stuff and we lived our wildest fantasy out in good charlotte videos and and like it felt a little over the top but at the time that's where that's where we were at we needed that yeah and we we thought that escape is a great word It was a scape. Yeah, it was larger than life because we needed to go all the way, way far away from that

back there. And somewhere in there, though, we found our way to after Good Charlotte, the first, you know, was from 96 to 2011, really, when we never stopped, never thought about anything else. Same. Didn't live, breathe, nothing else mattered. Never came home. Then, exactly. And then we landed and we were like, who am I?

Yeah. And why am I not happy? And why do I feel like a fucking miserable mess? I know, dude. It's crazy. Right? My wife is like at the time we met and she's like, I think you need like, this is a couple years into our relationship.

She's like, I think you need to go therapy. Like you're not happy. Yeah. And then I listened to her because I didn't want to lose her. Right. And then go to therapy and start working. And then that was the real, that's where to me the real journey began where like, okay, work is great.

We're all going to work. You're going to work for the rest of your life. Yeah. You're going to be in yellow card. Yeah, we don't retire. Yeah. You're going to score movies. You're going to do whatever you.

The creative shit that comes out of you is going to come out of you. And you're going to make it a job. The real work is like, the who am I work? Am I happy just to sit here? Do I need another hit? It would be nice to have hits. They come when they come. But at this point, not if it affects the things that you're actually doing that work for,

your wife and your family, you know? My wife and my son. Right. Exactly. How old's your son? I'll be two in December. That's the thing is like, What's his experience?

That's where it really fucks you up, because that's when I really started digging in deeper was when my kids, too. Yeah. I don't want them around an edgy, anxious, worried guy. Dude, I mean, it is so important to me, the version of myself that I'm projecting when I'm with him, you know? You talked about this earlier.

I just vomited it all up on you, like all the stuff. The whole time I've been thinking about how earlier you brought up timing, you know, in like the timing of life. Divine. And my son came into my life at a time where I have these tools and this understanding. Having a kid, kids are hard. It's hard to do. The hard work.

You know, and you have to look in the mirror. And yes. And so, it's crazy. Talk about, you know, an amp blowing up at Warp Tour in 2004 and me losing my mind because the show went down. How does that compare to the struggles you face when raising a child? it would be very easy to be the reactive blow-up version of myself. Not only is it like I've learned how to not be that way in most situations. Like I said, it's always going to be there.

You're going to you're going to fuck up. But for the most part, I've learned like, oh, you can feel that coming. Let that move on by, dude. Don't act on that thought. When I do that with my son, it's just like a conscious and incredible feeling to So, man, pat yourself on the back because that was the really stressful, intense, hardcore situation. And you stayed calm and level and you solved the problem. And your son, that's all he saw.

That's the only energy he got from you was, it's okay. We're going to figure it out. We're going to figure it out. And so the timing of life bringing my son into my life when I'm ready for it. And same thing with Travis. and the record and everything. You might not have been ready for that moment with Travis, or the moment with your son,

or the show in Brazil. That honestly, the show in Brazil was what was one of the moments where we said, who's fucking like those guys? We both said like tough start to a show. They handled that really well. That's what we said. We walked away after we watched a couple songs

and we had to go back and get ready. I was like, man, that's tough when you shit breaks. I hope our shit works tonight. We're all thinking that way. We're not going like, that wasn't good. We were like, Fuck, they handled that really well. And it is a nice little reminder for us.

You know, it's cool, too, I'm thinking about that moment and going back to how we were getting the band, getting the band back together. And we were talking about that kind of concept of kindness, you know, and being more forgiving and kind to each other or whatever. That moment for me became not about Yellow Card and not about the 15,000 people that are going to have some opinion about Yellow Card. I was only standing there feeling like this ultimate compassion and like sharing that fear and how uncomfortable Ryan must have been out there and knowing as soon as it was over I just

wanted to give him a hug and be like dude thank you for you handled that well playing that through it you know you he kept playing as if that guitar was going to turn on at any moment it just that's where my head was it just made me like we both said it me and bench were walking away and I was like fuck that's tough they handled that really well and he goes, yeah, they handle that great. And I was like, I hope our shit works tonight. And he was like, what are you going to do? That's what he said. And that's kind of what you have to do. You guys, what are you going to do? Well, you do what you guys did. But anyways, it's funny because we left that show and we're like, in full honesty. Like, we were like, we should play with them. And then Australia pops up. And we were like,

we should ask yellow card. And we asked you guys. And you said, yes, it was like that fast. And it also said, fucking A right. Yeah, they said yes right away. It was like, and then we all just sort it out. We're like figure it out. We're like on those phone calls. Easy yes. It was like you're going, you know, we're going Australia. Direct support. It's huge. These rooms are huge. There's a good chance we're going to lose money to go on this tour. And we live all four of us, we don't care. We're going. It's amazing. We have to play these shows. You know, we have to be a part of this. This is a really special moment. So yeah, we're, I mean, we're super grateful. But I really, dude, I think the shows are going to be. We're grateful to. The shows are going to be great. And it's actually a nice way to go tour together because I've always kind of wanted to tour with you guys. I've always been a fan. I've always loved your voice. Thank you.

I think you have, I don't know, you just have a classic voice. I saw it in the, when you talk about the times you were going through from 2010 to 2000, whatever. Yeah. From the outside, I could feel that too. Right. But we can all kind of, when you've been in this long enough, you get a sense of how this thing works. And then as an outsider with no like personal look inside, you can almost see like when someone's trying to find their way.

Oh yeah. And they're figuring it out. And by the way, we have too. And I think that like to sit with you though and hear your firsthand account of it, it makes me like you guys more because most people I think were trained not to show people our weakness. or any moment of weakness or any moment of failure to protect ourselves from being made fun of, I guess. I don't know like what I...

And I was that guy too. Yeah. I was trying to show no weakness, no mistakes. I think I learned in my older age. Like, no, no, no, no. I'm just going to tell people the truth about something. So I'm an amena. And like my music, my hair changed with me and has to be able to

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not are who are people they're to be honest having these conversations

and being open and telling the whole story and accepting responsibility for my

role and things and it makes it more fun to talk about what

all of this is and what it means. Like, I don't want to sit here and talk about record sales and, you know, like, remember the good all days? Like, that's, what, where's, it sucks. What does anyone get out of that? Like, I would much rather talk about this stuff. And I don't want to talk to Ryan from 2004 anyways. No, you do not. Right? And you don't want to talk to me from 2004. You know what I mean? Like, but that's also just not us. Yeah. Like, we grow and this is also one of the things that we about you guys when we saw you guys in Brazil. I don't want to be on stage and be any other age than I am right now. I'm 46 years old. That's how old I want to be. Agreed. So I'm going on stage and we've built a show that we're extremely proud of. We try really hard at it and at 46. Yep.

And that's the good Charlotte you're getting. We're a better band than we ever were back then. Sam, dude. I love playing in my band. It matures, right? I love it. You know? Absolutely. And we saw the same thing when we see you guys were like, okay, it's them now. You're actually there. You're plugged in. You're playing a show. You mean it. It feels like everybody's excited to be there. They want to be there. I thought it was cool to see Sean. The success of you guys as a band to me is just so much cooler now. I agree. And me too. Yeah. That being said, hearing you share honestly has been probably one of the best episodes like episodes we've had. Because, I'm being honest with you, man. I don't even know if I expected it. I'm going to tell you the truth. I don't come in here with expectations. I had no idea.

I knew it was just a like free form conversation. And I didn't even know what we were going to talk about. I knew we were going to talk about our tour and your new record, right? But we're not that much. We ended up, which is cool, you know? New record's great. Thank you. If you're listening, check it out.

I knew we were going to promote some stuff, but we don't really promote a lot here. But to hear you open up and talk about looking back on yourself and seeing things and wanting to change them, right? We all have to do that, but most of us don't admit it. Yeah. And that's the thing like when we're in music, we can't let our guard down. So we have to act like we have our shit together. It's all buttoned up. And like, we know what we're doing and that was on purpose and this is that and this is not.

And like, I just get so tired of it. Yeah. Because actually we all started as kids who just wanted to be. be creative and have fun and like make something out of ourselves and dream big and believe in ourselves and like feel like we could do something because I couldn't play sports and I was never going to go to college and I was like, well, how am I going to do anything that matters? Then music gave me like hope. And it's nice to get to know someone to sit with them and get like a sense of them because, you know, we're all running and we've all, you know, you're inside your life

and your career and you've crossed paths with people. But. But you're a band and a group of people that I've always been interested in. And I never really got the opportunity to even like tell you that. Yeah. But also like I think I've always been kind of just an organic kind of person where like I just let things happen. Yeah. And so I always thought we would eventually hang out. Well, I think we're going to have even more fun than Australia now.

Yeah. We're going to get coffee together and hang and vibe. It's going to be great. Yeah. I think this tour in Australia is going to be fucking the best. show. I think this is a great tour. And do you know Kiss Chacey? No. Okay. Like, OG from the same time Australian band, like really good band. All right, cool. Really great band, really great songs. And like, it's a big deal. I can, I mean, I can tell that Australians are very excited that they're on

the tour. We've even been talking like, should we add another band before them and really stack it? But it feels like body jar? Maybe. But it. It feels like with this many bands, everyone gets to play the set the fans want because like- I love a three-band bill. Right. And all of the bands have like a really deep catalog. So like there's a lot of songs. I think this bill is really good.

But I think this show is going to be one of the best of next year in Australia. I think this tour is going to be sick. I can't wait, man. We went in April and it was the biggest shows we've ever played. It's going to be sick. And so now to like less than a year later go, actually never mind. These are the biggest shows we've ever played. So rad.

It's going to keep getting bigger. I just, dude, it's, it's fascinating to sit and talk about how that long valley to come back to this giant peak, you know. It's not magic, bro. But it's just cool to be in the moment. You guys work hard, man. Yeah. And it's not magic. It's, it's you guys getting together and figuring it out.

Yeah. Ryan, thanks, bro. Dude, this was awesome. It's awesome. So glad we, you know, I got super sick, of course, release week. Yeah, and we had to move this, but I'm so glad we got it done. Yeah, this is laid back. Anytime you want to come, you can come.

Cool. This is great. Thank you. Yeah, cheers. Thank you for watching Artist Friendly. If you liked this episode, please make sure you hit the like button. You follow the channel and please share it with your friends. We appreciate the support.

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