Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Sam Carter of Architects

Episode Date: March 5, 2025

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Sam Carter of Architects. After a busy couple of years opening for Metallica and headlining festival stages, Architects recently returned with their new album, The Sky, The Earth & All Between. Produced by former Bring Me the Horizon member Jordan Fish, the band set out to capture that raw energy, melding their live intensity with melodic depth. In a conversation with Madden, the Architects vocalist opens up about stories from his serendipitous relationship with Good Charlotte, his gratitude for a life of music, and the band’s latest album. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden and this is artist friendly. On this episode, I'm talking to one of my favorite singers. He's an innovator of heavy music and he's the lead singer of the band architects, Sam Carter. Let's go. I'm smoking out if that's my kind. I don't want no bad times. I don't want to have bad. I was thinking about talking to you because you're like on my you're on my top 10 list of people that I've wanted on this show. I appreciate you coming. do I have to start acting like I'm a nice person now?

No, you are a nice person though. No, I appreciate you. You have your moments, but what I actually want is for people listening to get a shot of and an experience of the guy that I get to hang out with. Yeah. Because I find you to be one of the most, and not just your music, because that also, it lives in your music as well. You know, when I listen to your music, I listen to it when I need to feel. encouraged. I listen to it when I need to feel motivated and I listen to it when I need to feel good about myself. So whatever it is that you do in music, it's I feel like you're preaching something to people

who need to believe in themselves. Yeah. And maybe that's something that you're doing with yourself or for yourself, but really you're doing it for everyone that's listening. But the guy that I hang out with is encouraging, we'll tell you exactly what he thinks. So you get right to the bottom of something. and I know exactly how you feel about it. With zero, it's not uncomfortable. You could tell me you don't like something and it's not uncomfortable. And I think I could say the same.

There's very unique people like that that you listen to or you'll ask them something and you'll hear them and you actually consider what they said because they're just being honest. Yeah. I think for me, I've always trusted my gut. I think since I was a little kid since I was probably like 12, 13

when I started playing music, for me, the only outcome for my life was for me to be a musician. I wasn't great at basically anything else. So it was this or nothing. Right. For me, it was like, my gut is, this is what you have to do,

you're going to get there and it's going to be hard work, but that's the only outcome. The only outcome has to be that for success or its failure. I remember I remember literally like playing drums and being like the, the only thing I want to do is be on the warp tour, which is crazy, but that was like a thing that I thought when I was a kid. I was like the pinnacle.

The idea of this like foreign touring festival where all my favorite bands when I was at school were on was like, there's no way my little local band will ever be on that. And then, you know, fast forward however many years later, I'm doing it with architects and I'm like, this is exhausting. Why do I want to do this? Yeah. But it was an amazing tour. But I think for me, yeah, from from that age, I've just had this, I trust my gut. I know sometimes it doesn't work out, but I think it's just how I do things. It's like, if I really love something, I really love it. I love it and I want to do it and I'm ready to go. I'm going to go to war for it. And I'm the same with my friends. I'm like, if my friends are there or they need advice, I'm there. I'm in your corner. I'm going to prep you up. I'm going to

support you because I know that you'll give it back and, you know, we can go off each other. But there's sometimes I just, yeah, I know when something doesn't feel right. But it doesn't, Sometimes I'm like, it doesn't feel right because I know that I'm not going to give it 100%. So why would I even give it a shot? Or why would I even try? Because I know I'm going to just not be interested. So there needs to be a flame there. Yeah, you know the difference between yes and no.

Yeah, yeah. Which is hard for some people. Yeah, for sure. They don't know what no feels like at all. That would be something that I actually, it just came to me, what you're really good at in a very natural way, is knowing what yes feels like. and knowing what no feels like. Yeah. And I think if more people knew what their own yes and no felt like,

they could move through life less confused. I think for me, I know how much effort goes into yes. Yeah. So I have to really want to do it because I'm like, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it to the best of my ability. I'm going to bring everyone with me. I'm going to be on board. I'm going to be, you know, I'm going to be the cheerleader.

I'm going to try and help everybody. And if I don't, and I drag my feet, I know that I make that situation uncomfortable for everybody. because I'm like, I don't want to be here. I don't want to do this. And I have done that in situations. It doesn't help. You know, it's not positive for me to be a baby about it.

But, you know, I know that when I want to do something and I believe in it, I can really pull it across the line. I'm the same way. Yeah. It took me years, though, to get the self. Maybe it's like self-confidence or self-belief or self-esteem or something, but it took me years to speak up and go like, eh. Well, you're kind of the same.

You're kind of the same as me. And when we have conversations where, like, I'll tell you how amazing I think a song is or I think this record is or like talking back about, you know, old songs that you've done and how important it was. And you're like, yeah, yeah, cool, cool. But you're, you know, you turn it around on me. Like you can't take the compliments. I really struggle with it because I'm like, I'm like, I don't believe that about myself.

So I'm like, I just want to talk about, you know, I don't talk to myself the way that I would talk to you about what you've done. And I think you're the same. So that is actually, I was wondering. And I wonder sometimes if, so again, me and Benz were talking about you last night and we find you to be like a guy who's always optimistic, always encouraging. Yeah, for all the people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For us. Yeah. So think about it. You've been here. You've been on a on a ride with us now for some years. Yeah. With like not only our band, your band, our company, which architects is what I would say. We always look at architects as at, at, MDN, there's a spirit you guys have in the band. We've always said it. Like, what would architects do?

We say that all the time. When we're, we're setting up the GC record, we're talking about this new GC record, and we're like, what would architects do? Well, they would just do this. Yeah, yeah. They would do what they feel. Yeah. They wouldn't ask. They wouldn't have a committee. They wouldn't have, they wouldn't second guess themselves. They would try to get to the best answer with their team, whoever they, whoever at, whoever's relevant to that conversation, they'd make a decision and then they would go. Yeah, yeah. Instead of, you know, when you bring too many chefs in the kitchen

and everyone's second guessing. Everyone's got their ideas. I think the good thing with architects is like, we all kind of know our positions within the band and we all trust each other to do what we do. I think that's really important because if you have too many ideas and too many people throwing things forward,

it's never gonna work. But we all have like the kind of greater good idea of what architects should be and where we want it to go and we all just push that together. but we let other people be the voices for it or or be the figureheads because especially me and Dan are very vocal about the band and what we think and we both feel really passionately and intensely about about the band and about a lot of things in our lives right so i think um ali and adam are just like we're going to let them do their thing where they need to be crazy and blow off some steam and but we know

that they're going to get us to where we need to be and you know we're lucky that we have each other I think we've always been that band that has just kind of moved around like a group of sheep. You know, when we first started touring bands would be like, it's funny because I see you walking around the venue and it's just like the four of you, the five of you. And it's always been that way. When Tom was here and when Josh was here and throughout all ilks of the band, it's been a tight unit. It's funny. We're all so similar. And I think actually now with the four of us, it's, yeah, Adam's,

been with us since just before lost forever. He did a he did a tour of us around the world. We did a hundred shows called 100 days and it was just before we signed to Epitaph and we've just experienced so much together but we just know how much this means to us and it's not really like about the money or success or whatever. It's just like it's how we go to sleep. I always say to Dan, I'm like, we've got to get this right because that's how I go to sleep at night. Yeah. You know, even like we're coming out here and things that we've been doing I'm like, we've got to get it over the line, I'll do it, I'll go, because it's how I sleep. It's how I feel like, I've done everything I can to make this be as good as I think it could be. That's the thing that I

think that you guys have when I watch, which I learn from, is a natural ability to make a decision based on how you feel on your instinct and not second guess yourself. Yeah. And what's important to you is important to you. That's the most actually the key to it. Yeah. Because when I see your band, when you could you could say like okay you're coming up your 11th album 15 years yeah well i've been in the band for 15 years now i think it's maybe a little bit more right i think architects is around nearly 20ish right so because it was like tom and dan school band right it's the first you know when you like first start doing like covers or whatever like this is the same kind of band from that that moment you know yeah so so uh two decades it's been a been a minute yeah um and architects today today

bigger than it's ever been in the world. Yeah. But it doesn't feel like that's a metric you guys actually hold as like, it feels like you guys make decisions for each record and your vision is what it is and you guys organize around that and then you go into the world and your architects and you do it, you do what you do. But then on the outside of it, you watch and you're like, okay, two decades in, this band is bigger than it's ever been.

a new band to some people. Yeah, yeah. And making important music, if you look at this, at the state of heavy music, I would say, I always say this, you don't have to say it about yourself

because I know you won't. I would say you guys are one of the most important bands in heavy music. You've pushed the envelope of what can be, what can exist in the sense of how many people

can listen to it. Yeah. Right? Because 10, 15, 20 years ago, music with people screaming was not accepted by a larger audience. Certainly metal music was big in certain ways,

but you guys had pushed the envelope of the intensity of what can be considered a big band, right? Versus a garage band or a fucking dance hall band or whatever little hardcore show bands. You know, in the spectrum of heavy music, there's all these different things. And of course, heavy music fans love to argue about it.

And I love it. It's good for heavy music. But I'm talking, if I zoom out as a story, student of rock and roll and its existence in the world and where is it going and to me one of the most important genres of music that has to exist. If bands like architects don't exist, then kids are not picking up guitars and going in their garages and getting together and making original music together and finding out what they can be. Yeah, I think for us, I think the mission statement has kind of always been like, I want to look like just regular guys. I don't want to

I'm across like a rock star. I don't want to be a rock star. I just want to be a nice guy and just show that like it's, it's, you don't have to do all these things that you think you have to be or like be a bad guy or whatever. I just want to be like, I just love playing music. I loved it when I was 13 and it was my way of like creating some kind of success for myself. I think we're all the same. We go into every album just trying to write a good album, trying to write the best album. I think this one in particular we had a big conversation of like, Tare Lerl. 11th album, you know, it needs to be, it needs to hit hard because a number 11 for someone to want to check it out, they already have an idea of what your band is and they either want to check it out or they don't. You need to give them a reason for them to be like, wow, I want to check this out. And not everybody, in fact, I can't think of anybody that has their most successful album on their 11th. And it looks like we're about to have that, which is crazy. So I think you are going to have that, and I've been seeing it coming, right? It's not just stadiums with Metallica or it's like all those things that lead up.

And all those are a product of the records that came before. So it's the effort. It's like the idea that if we put forth effort and do our best try and are honest about that. So that's the other thing I love about you guys. You're cool because you're actually trying to make the best record you can. You're not saying whatever, we don't care. Like the rock star thing is kind of like, I'll do this in my sleep. Right.

And actually the honest thing is like, no, I'm actually trying my hardest here because I want to outdo my last one. Yeah. And actually the people that listen to my music, I care about them. Yeah. I think with us as well, we can like, we're so, I think it's kind of a British mentality of being able to point the finger at yourself as well and just go like, yeah, we tried on the last one. Maybe it didn't connect as well as we wanted to. We tried.

There was no, no bad. We didn't do anything different to how we normally do, but we can always go. When we know we've not done what we wanted, we can go, yeah, okay, we'll just learn from it. Yeah, you're not hard on ourselves. You guys are very British like that. Yeah, we're, we're, we're down. We're like, give us a reason to like actually be happy. Yeah, yeah.

But I like it. I think it's a driving, it's a driving factor in why we're still here and why we do what we do. I think it's just trying to navigate that because I think it can be helpful and it can be a hindrance. Right. We've had a lot of conversations recently about like confidence and like confidence on stage and like doing this and like actually being able to be like, yeah, this is what makes me want to be a better band. This is what makes me want to do this. But I actually need to kind of celebrate the fact that I have done this as well. And I can get on stage and I can do this and I am a good singer rather than just being like, you need to be better. You need to try harder. You need to do this. You know, there's a fine line between help and hindrance, I think with it. Yeah, with all of us. Yeah. Everybody. And I think everybody like, I always try to pull those little ideas out when we have these conversations because anyone listening that gets, it's like get out of your own way sometimes. Yes.

And you know what? Also like give yourself a pat on the back when you went out on the fucking stage. I didn't even know how I got myself out on stage to start when I first started because I was shy and I had a low self-esteem. Yeah, yeah. Half the battle is literally taking the steps onto the stage. Yeah, and I didn't think I was good enough. Yeah.

And then you get out there. And of course, this comes with all art. There's going to be a bunch of people that like you and that's great. And you're like, oh, my God, I did something and they like it. And then there's going to be people making fun of you. Yeah, yeah. And it's just how it is. It's just how it is.

And but in the early days, it was hard for me because I was like, I was susceptible to that. Because I had that low self-esteem. Yeah. And then what I had to learn how to do was find what I actually liked about myself. Yeah. Which is very hard. That's and you have to find that sort of youth like childlike energy of like what would what would Sam when he was 13 do when he was walking on this stage would he be up the night before worrying about what his performance was going to be like would he be like oh I'm just not I'm so worried I'm not going to be good enough to worry he would be like I can't go to sleep because I'm so excited to go can't wait so I think like coming into this this sort of year and this sort of album tour I'm just trying to bring that kid out with me more to be like you did it.

You're here. You've done the hard work. This is the bit you get to enjoy. Don't get in the way of yourself at this point. You've written the record. Go have fun. No one wants to see someone on stage freaking out, critiquing themselves. They want to see you go and have fun because that's, you're their Friday night. Yep. You're their Saturday night. You're their party. You're their like escapism. Like even if you're not perfect because you're, because you're human, they still want to see you smiling and having fun and trying to show that you love this thing, which I do more than anything. I think my sort of mission statement for this year is just smile more,

have more fun, because you get in the way of yourself. Yes. And say that you love stuff. Like my go-to thing, my whole life with the band and with myself, you know, I'm so worried.

I've spent so much time worrying about coming across as arrogant or big-headed that when people ask me about the band, I'm like, yeah, it's cool. Right, next, tell me about your job. Like, how was your day at work? How was this? I don't want to talk about it because I don't want to be like showing on. And like actually the work that I've done this year, I want to be like, yeah, I am excited for this tour.

I love my band. Yeah, I love my band. I can't wait to go on this tour. I can't wait for this release because I've given it everything. And I think, you know, the amount of times I've told myself just like, just ask someone else, like, don't talk about yourself. Your brain starts to react to that where you start pulling the excitement out of your life. So yeah, this year I'm trying to bring that kid with me and just be like, I'm ready to go, which is fun. it's a fun way to live

I think you get more out of life that way yeah we see you as like the guy who you encourage people like when I'm selling you're like I'm kind of we're working on this thing and you're like oh fucking great yeah yeah yeah

we should make an album yeah you know what I mean you should yeah and you should play a show yeah I'm like oh how we're gonna do that and you're like yo you should fucking do that yeah exactly that's the energy you give yeah because I tell you

every time, every now and then I'll text you and I'll be like, y'all just fucking rip to work out. Like, architects is my go-to. Yeah. When I need to get back in my fucking, on my A game of like being the person I want to be. Yeah. I want to be a positive person. I want to be someone who believes in things. And that when people are around, they get energized, not fucking depleted.

I think that's the thing with us is that there's always like when our records really connect and really hit with people, there's energy throughout it. And people can use it as their escapers. or they're like force for good. I think that comes from, yeah, just trying to make the music really honest and, like, believable and a bit of pain in there. They think we're not always suffering. You know, I'm not always sat around sad. You know, Dan writes the lyrics, but everything that he's talking about is so relatable to me. Otherwise, it couldn't be what it is.

You know, we have conversations. I'm always trying to push him to be darker. He's trying to go lighter and it kind of works. he'll always be like, I don't know about this. And I'm like, oh, I do. Make it really fucking dark. You know? And he's like, I don't want to do that.

I don't want kids to worry. I'm like, I don't care. Bring it on. You know, I have that darkness in me. So I think that's why we work so well together. But yeah, I, I think the energy needs to be there. When you're making the record, like this record, how do you get there when you guys are going over the lyrics of a song?

And I'm guessing the melodies. How are those born? Well, on this record in particular, me, Dan and Jordan work together, basically like a tag team. Right. It's going around. We're starting. Yeah, we start with the basic ideas of a track, get an SM7 out, start humming ideas back and forth, building a skeleton from there.

Grabbing things that are cool. Yeah, that's cool. That key. Let's try this key. This is where this works or like this little bit's great. You know, with Jordan, it's, you know, he hears something really quick and he's like, no, what you just did. There's magic. Let's build from there.

Jordan. And then Dan is just like, I think, especially coming into this album, He's just, he's got an amazing ear for music. He's an amazing lyricist. And I think actually having Jordan there as well, we were both able to say, this is amazing. Right.

This line, don't change it because it's two of us. He's had years of me going, this is amazing. Right. But now somebody else coming in and producing and having that other ear, you've got two people being like, don't overthink it. No, this is fine. This is great. But we all worked together. It was an amazing experience.

and it was one that like, I think it's the most involved I've been in probably like two or three records. That's cool. Where like I feel like I really had a purpose and something to bring to the table and Jordan and Dan were both so inviting of that.

You know, they're two musicians that I think are like two and the most talented people I know. I mean, for me, I can't pick up a guitar and write a song. I can't either, by the way. I played drums when I was a kid. Yeah. You know, I can bring you an idea for a groove

or I can bring you an idea of what I think a song should be. I can sing a melody. Yeah. I can hum a melody. I need an idea to be born for me to then go. I think it should go here. It should go here. I think we should do this. I think you should use this chord and this. To be able to bring what I can bring to the table with those two was just so great. I mean, it's awesome to think about like the three of you because it's three of my favorite, like, rock people. Yeah. You guys are just all talented in different ways. We're all a bit. Yeah. Yeah, but it's great, it's just unique. But like Jordan is one of my favorite people. He's an amazing. He's an amazing guy. And I think he's so, so, so talented. And he's sweet. Yeah. We work together a little bit.

And I could see him like, he's very, he's thoughtful, man. He's thoughtful. He wants to speak up sometimes and he's like, he's got, he can be a bit sensitive about where he gets in like when he's in a new group of people. But it's all coming from a thoughtful person who really cares about making music. I think me and him are very similar in terms of like when we when we love something, we're ready to go. Yeah. And we're like pulling each other and we're going, we're going, we're going. And then there'll be points where like I'm deflated or he's deflated or sad. But when we're down, we're like, yeah, okay, I'm done. And it was cool to try and pull each other through that. I think especially like vocally, it's my favorite record of vocals that I've ever

recorded. And he pushed me, you know, to get that. And Dan pushed me. They both were there. Yeah, I got pushed to places that, like, I've not been before, right? It was like a journey of like, how much do I want to be the best vocalist? Yeah. Like, am I just going to wrestle my laurels of what I've done or am I going to, like, go there? And they both knew that it was in there within me, right? So they pulled it and pushed and pushed. In some points, I'd be like, I'm storming out of this room.

Yeah. Because I'm screaming my head off. I've got adrenaline flying through my system and, like, I can't regulate this emotion, right? That's how it feels. And then other times, there's times where they're doing, they get a vocal performance at me, and I'm sat there like, I can't believe I've just done that. I can't believe, like, that's me. Like, I've really given that everything.

This record, vocally, is the most satisfying record as a fan. You do everything that I love. All the things you do with your vocals across all the records, you put on this record. And it, like, is so satisfying. Yeah. I love it. Thank you.

I appreciate it. The big choruses, the heavy stuff, the screaming. Yeah. every part of it is just like it's like you perfected the things that you do that I love on all your records and there's aspects of each song across different records that like my favorite parts

really is like you know all your moves I felt like I appreciate it coming from you of such compliment really much stuff I can't do it's I don't know how a lot of it happens but it's I think I needed to believe that I was actually good I think for so long I've sort of just sat there and been like

yeah I'm a good I'm alright I'm an all right vocalist I do the job you know postman goes and delivers post I don't need a pat on the back for it you know just that's what I need to do but actually I think this time it was like no now I'm done

like I'm done I don't want to just be like okay I'm like I can do everything to a good standard and I know I can and I've worked with my vocal coach I've worked with Jordan I've worked with Dan. It's like just go and put in all those years of hard work and actually show that you really believe in yourself. And yeah, they both got that out of me. And it was a little bit you and a little bit working with them. Yeah, I think it was just the right time. I think it was we all had something

to prove. I think Jordan had just come out of the situation of not being with bring me. We're on our 11th album. We want to prove it. I'm coming in wanting to to show that it's our strongest album. And then together it was just like, okay, let's go. We're all pushing it up. the hill we're all getting it there. I thought it was a really, really cool decision that you guys decided to collaborate with Jordan and make this record. It was also, it felt like more than friendship. I mean, obviously you guys are friends and if you know Jordan, you love him. He's just so talented and such a good guy. Yeah. I believe in him as a producer. I think he is a fucking badass. Well, I think we had history with him, which is really special. When we did Doomsday,

which was our first song after losing Tom and coming through everything. We did that song with him. We didn't do it with him. We wrote the song ourselves and I remember we got the first mix back and I remember Dan calling me and he was like,

I need you to be really honest with me right now. What do you think of this song where it's at? And I just remember being like, it's not good enough. And Dan said, that's exactly how I feel. I'm going to call someone. I'm going to call Jordan. I think we could try and go with him,

do some producing and we'll get it there. He called Jordan, call me back. And then the next day, Jordan was like, come up to my house. Like, I'm at home, just come up to my house. We'll do the song together. So we went up to his house. We were there for a day, for a night, and then a full day and then went home.

And we worked with him on Doomsday. And he just, you could tell that he just cared about kind of like our journey and our story and where we were. And like how important that song was. And it's one of our best songs and one of a very important emotional moment. And then from there, we were both obviously so busy. would have loved to have done stuff with him. But bring me as busy as we are. They're always writing.

We're always writing. And yeah, the moment kind of came up. It was odd. We had a, me and Dan had had a really big conversation sort of the night before this, this other conversation I'm going to talk about, about what we needed to do. Like I'm saying, it's our 11th album. What do we think it needs to be? How do we do it?

Like, how much does it mean to us to get it there? And then we played a show with Bring Me the day after we had this conversation. And we were having. a conversation with him in this hallway outside the dressing room and we were talking to him he was like you know classic like what are you doing next what we got coming up and we were talking about the record and he was like oh so what are you going to do we were like talking about it and he and we were like what would you do we're inspired by you and and the band like what what what where would you take this what would you do you do and he was like do we're like we're not we're like we we want this we

we want this chat had a really important conversation for about half an hour about everything and and dan went off to the toilet and before he came back, Jordan was like, I'd love to do something with you, but I don't know if Dan would be interested. I was like, yeah, he would. And I think he was just like thinking from like a producer point of view, because Dan had producer records. I was like, yeah, he definitely would. I remember Dan coming back over and being like, oh, Dan, Jordan thinks that you don't want to work with him. And he's like, what? It's like, I don't think you want to work with me. And they were just stood there like, they're like pointing fingers at each other.

And then he was like, oh, I'd love to write with you and I'd love to work with you. And we walked off. And I remember us just being like, well, it's a nice idea. But it's never It's never going to happen. But it's cool that we had that conversation. And I feel like it lit a fuse. And then everything happened with him and bring me in. I remember him. We'd been working on Seeing Red, which was the first song coming back on this record. And we'd got the song to a really good point. And then we were like, well, there's no harm in just shooting the song over to him. And we sent it over. And he came back with like, he just did a quick face time with us and was like, I'd do this, this, this, this. We went and did it, sent it back to him. He was like, yeah, and do this, this. And then we were. like, oh my God. This is great. Then we didn't hear from him for a while. And then everything happened. And then he called, he called Dan and said like, I'm, you know, I'm free.

I want to do a record. Yeah. Do you want to do a record? And we, Dan called me and I was like, yeah, I'm done. I'm in. Let's go. I'm down. And then within a month, we had a studio time booked out for a week.

And within the five days, we did three songs. And the first song that we got done was curse straight away. That was done in 24 hours. Yeah. one of my favorites. I was singing it coming in. Yeah, yeah. And me and Dan had had that riff. We tried it a million different ways, different keys, different vocation, different choruses, different ideas, just played that riff to him and he was like, this is an architect's

riff, let's go. And we just built the song around there and it was super exciting. And Evil Eyes, I think, came out from that session as well, which is on the record. And another one that didn't end up making it. But it was, yeah, we were just, after that, it was like, yeah, let's do an album because we've clearly got chemistry. Yeah, but it's interesting because, This show is kind of modeled after that, right? It's hallways, dressing rooms, dinners, parties, where we interact with one another out there in the world, different artists.

It's in a calm place, isn't it? It's like a, like you're safe. And we don't have to be anything. We can just be real people. And then those conversations are the best ones. And I think a lot of times, like fans and people that listen to music, which is everyone, they don't actually get to see the side of the artists. like as real people.

Oh yeah, like mates. If you ran into them at a coffee shop or if you had dinner with them. Yeah. And that's the thing I like about doing this show because everyone that I've had on this show, I actually want to experience them the way I would

if we were having dinner. Yeah. Or we're at someone's a friend's party. Yeah. Or, you know, you just randomly meet someone. And I met that guy. He was fucking cool. Yeah, yeah.

He was sound. Yeah. If you're at an award show or you're at a fucking thing, you don't get anyone in the real. Like there were- Some people were still at their like, characters on. And you're there and you're like, oh, oh, am I dressed in the right close? It's like you're never going to have the real experience to meet each other and interact.

But with bands, we get to tour with one another. So we do get to interact that way. A lot of these conversations happen. But it's interesting because I go back to instinct. You guys, conversation in a hallway, talk to Jordan. Then you go and you make a record. You make this record, which I think is the best record of your career. Okay. And I love it. Yeah. I can't wait for it to come out. I think it's our best as well. It's just so good. It's just a great listen.

Thank you. You made it with Jordan, who just changed his career, right? He's had a career change in the sense of he's in a band. He decides to go and go full time, all in. I want to produce records. I have a dream. I want to produce and write and make classic records. Yeah.

And we talked about this. I talked to Jordan about this. And he's got dreams. And I encourage dreams, right? I just think if we stop dreaming, we die. Sometimes things just happen that don't make sense and things just fall into place and it works out. And I think the best moments of my life have been that where it's just like this isn't supposed to make sense, but it's just happened. There's something about that.

There's something about architects having an idea that's just coming from feeling, from instinct, from whatever, the way you do everything else. You just go, yeah, that's cool. Let's do that. And then you just do it. And then you make this great album. But you also inadvertently, like, are the first record in what I think is going to be an amazing career of a producer that's going to make amazing records. I agree. And it makes a lot of sense to me that architects would be the first band that goes, yeah, yeah, we'll make a record with you.

Like, it just makes so much sense to me. And you may not stand back and analyze all of it, but that's what I do. Yeah. I analyze everything and go like, what did he do there? Those clever little bastards. those fucking guys. But it's because you guys are just animals. Yeah.

You just do what you feel and you go forward. You're not thinking about size particularly. You're not thinking about you've done the arenas. You've done the stadiums. You've done the entire spectrum of shows of what you could do as a band. From the smallest show to the biggest show. You've had a number one record in multiple territories. You've had for a heavy band that screams.

Yeah, we've done stuff that shouldn't be possible for. a band that like us. Think about it. It should not be possible. Yeah. It wasn't before. Yeah. Someone's screaming and doing the things and then singing. And so all I'm saying is to blaze a trail for ourselves, right? And then inadvertently we we help others because we hush what's possible for what wasn't necessarily accepted before. And we could go in art, in music, in culture, in any which way, fashion. Any way we want to say, where was something not quite accepted by everyone? And then who pushed it to the edge every time and more people accepted it? And now are more bands that are heavy that can do all the things, however they want to express themselves, be big and make an actual living.

It's also funny as well because, like, I think, obviously not just for me for a lot of people, like actually good Charlotte was like a gateway into heavy music like you and your brother were wearing like cradle of filth shirts we were you were wearing like aggressive bands shirts and you know what it was like when it was when but when you're a kid and you're getting a record and you look in a record you look at the thanks list and you look at the shirts that the people are wearing so like I would listen to bands that you guys would wear because I'd be like who's suicidal tendencies who's cradle of filth who's who's danzig I didn't know I was just a kid right I'm like I'm hearing this who's the misfits

Who's this? You know, and you're like, you were a darker band. Dark in our aesthetic and kind of like the way it looked. It was like, oh no, this is cool. I always said it's like the Morrissey lyric. I wear black on the inside. Yeah. It's black's how I feel. Yeah. On the outside. You know, I felt, always felt down. Yeah. I always felt a bit angry, but not at anyone.

Yeah. It was very hard for me in the upswing and the peak of that, all that kind of. a good Charlotte stuff in the in the in the first iteration whatever I want to say that whatever you call that part of our career yeah to express how I was feeling all the way yeah we tried in the music it definitely how we dressed we were always trying to like push the limit of like what bands we'd take on tour like what we wore because I don't know that we wanted to be a part of the mainstream in the sense of like I don't know it was hard to explain but But our music was so fucking poppy.

It was like, because we just love fucking catchy shit. Yeah, but it just didn't seem, I think for kids and for when we were listening to it, I'd say kids, like when I was starting listening to music, it didn't seem like mainstream to me.

It was a, it was dudes that were playing instruments and it was, you know, you had, yeah, it was like, it was punk. Yeah.

It was my, that was my entrance to it. And I think, yeah, it's crazy. Like, you know, how I say like weird,

weird things come together. Like, you know, obviously, now we're with you guys and Joey and the links between like me being a kid and coming to see you and then singing with you and being friends and it's all so weird to me but it also all makes complete sense. Okay so I definitely want to tell the story about you coming to Brixton. Yeah. Because it's a crazy story. Probably my favorite story of one of my favorite stories.

Yeah. Just because you're such a legend and I like listen to your music so much to think you were a kid. kid. How old were you? When I came to see, it was probably, I want to say, 04. Did you do the first time you do Brickson? We were talking about the line up. Yeah, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, Mest and, uh, sugar cult. Yeah. We were saying, and I remember I was there, I was got dropped off by my friend's dad. Okay. We both came together me and two girls. How old were you? I was, I was in school young, so I must have been like 13. Middle school? Yeah. Yeah. Me, my friends, Helen and Hannah, we were big GC.

fans. We got dropped off at 10 a.m. I waited by the bus, waited by the side door. No way. Yeah, to try and hang out. And I didn't know any better. I was just like, I want to be at the barrier. I want to do it. Like, I was that kid. I see those kids come to our shows now. Did you see us get her on the bus? No, I didn't see anything. Because I was probably

like around the front and you guys were like getting around or whatever. But like, the show was just amazing. It was like my first big show like in London. High energy. Yeah, I was from like, I was from a smaller village. So like going to London for the first time in like, Brickson Academy venue that I'd heard about for years, being there and then seeing this show, it was just so amazing. I was right at the front, singing every lyric, every song. Crazy. And then you come back, I think it was like, I don't know how many years after.

2018, maybe? We're best, we're like pals. We're like, you're like, do you want to come and sing with me? I'm like, yes, I do. And then that many years later, I'm on that stage with you guys singing a song is just crazy and one of my favorite parts about any UK show now is if you're actually if you're in the country

and you can sing and then I sang on your record like what the fuck and one of my favorite moments on what the fuck on Generation RX which I think is a fully underrated GC album that one day will be

more appreciated than it than it was I just think it's a special album for us Leach which is a very deeply meaningful emotional song about me, me and Benj coming to the realization of like how deeply wounded we were from our childhood and this song that no one could come on. No one could sing on that song. That song was a precious gym to us. Yeah. Just because it was a message that we both

needed to get out and it was like therapeutic for us coming to the realization that like, the childhood trauma that we suffered, that we never really came to terms with, and never really talked about, we kind of put it into a poetic message on this song, and it meant a lot to us. And so for you to come and do the chorus was more meaningful than just you being on a song. Yeah. It was like, there was light. There was something about you that, the fact that you did it, first of all, which I was like, I was scared to ask you.

That's so crazy. Because I was like, I don't run here. I don't want him to feel like. You know, you don't want anyone to feel obligated. Yeah, yeah. Because that's not, because it isn't even about that. Yeah, yeah. So you don't want someone to feel like they can't say no.

Yeah. And I know you would have if you didn't want to do it. But like, we're not the guys to ask anyone for anything if we feel like it's going to be, like, them doing something they don't want to do. For me, it was amazing song. And it was, it was the best part. It's one of my favorite moments on the record. Yeah. And it kind of opened up a part of my voice that I hadn't used, like, sort of tonally.

I think I remember me and Dan were talking about we were like kind of opened up and I like a few ideas for the album for those that wish to exist kind of singing in that sort of style but yeah I just attract it with Dan as well which was super super cool yeah I was just so honored but like it's so funny because

you know it's not like in our relationship I spend the whole time sat around going like oh my god this Joel from Good Charlotte like fucking hell no but there is part of me that is like I'm saying with that like 13 year old kid that is like This is so crazy. Like my, my, my, I went to go and see a band.

I was inspired by it. Then I'm in a band. I'm now like in a fucking conversation with you all the time where we're trying to big each other up and encourage each other. Rolling text. And we're saying these things to each other to support each other. I'm on your record. It's an amazing.

It's an amazing thing. But do you know what's even weirder is how it kind of all came together? And I think we've spoken about this. Dean Robotham, who's, who was a guitar tech for Benj. He'd just been out with you for a while. And I remember he came to my house and we were having like,

we were just sat outside having drinks and it was like me and my girlfriend at the time and a bunch of our bandmates and we were all around. And he'd just come back from being with you guys in L.A. And he'd come back and he was like, oh, I've just been out with good Charlotte and like, they're the best people.

Like I love them. And I was like, be honest with me. I was like, be really real with me. I love that band. What are they like? And he was like, I'm being completely honest with you when I say they're the realest, nicest people.

They've gone out of their way to take care of me, gone above and beyond. That's nice. He's great. I love him. Next day, without any link or knowledge that Dean had been at my house, Joey calls me. And he's like, I've got this Joey, our manager for people that don't.

Joey Simmer, who's now the president of MDDN for many years, but has been your guys as manager for forever, yeah. He called me and he was like, I want to run something past you. I've got a proposition to go and work at MDDN, what do you think? And I was like, do it. Great. I was like, I was like, I just had a conversation last night

with somebody that would never lie to me, says they're the best people, says it's like amazing company, go. And Joe was like, cool, done. We needed it. And he was like, okay, that's it. I spoke to the guys and was like, because obviously they had been at my house as well.

They'd had the conversation with Dean. And it was so funny, like how it was like at that moment, around that time, we'd been through so much like, shit. and trauma. Been through a lot. Lost Tom. I remember Dean,

Dean had come down and it was still around that time and it was just like... You were all still processing. Yeah. But it was like, oh, that's funny. Like, this is all sort of... It felt like something was happening.

Someone was looking over and going like, oh, here's a little bit of light. It's obviously not fixing everything that we've been through, but it was like, here's just something to make you go, huh, that's odd. I was just talking about them yesterday and you've called me asking about this.

It was really strange. We're all weaved in a cloth. We're all weaved in a, and the thing that I think people don't, but I believe anyways, that people don't realize is that we're all connected. Like we all are. I just believe that we're like a big colony of ants that we're not even conscious of the dance that we're doing together.

Oh, you know who else was at the Brixton show? Adele. She told me that too. You're just inspiring everyone. I went to here. So, no, by the way, I fucking love Adele. She's the realist. Yeah.

You want to. you want to meet somebody that will not disappoint you if you love her music meet adele yeah she's she's the best and i've only become friends with her because she's very close with Nicole and so i've gotten to become friends with her and i count her as a just dear friend because she'll give you she's a lot like you she's our national treasure we love her she is a national treasure and And that's the thing. Because not only is she talented, she's sort of everything that's amazing about England. She's like, in Britain, it's like she just encompasses this like cockney legend.

She's so British. She's just insanely talented. The talent is like, that's the thing everybody knows. Yeah. Or whatever are you. That's just like, you just know Adele is Adele. It's agreed upon. But the thing that I think people don't always know is at the heart of a person when you sit with them.

Yeah. Are they a person? Can we all be in the room and can Adele be here and you be here and they're there and we're all here together as people and that everyone in the room matters? That's kind of how the experience I always look for.

And can she sing the chorus to little things? And did she own a maid? Did she own a maid t-shirt when she was in the crowd? I don't know. But what I'm constantly impressed with by artists that I admire, like what they've done

is when I meet the person. Yeah. And they're real. Yeah. And they're also aware. They're aware that they are who they are. So if someone comes in the situation that's a little excited or whatever, they're kind. Yeah.

But she's not going to be beholden to someone that is full of shit. Yeah, yeah. She's not good time for it. You know what I mean? Because she's real. Yeah. So she had to, just like you and me too, we weren't blessed with, like, we didn't come into the world and we were like the shit. In fact, we were the opposite.

it. We had to find our self-esteem. We had to find our talent. We had to work our asses off. Yeah. And we had to try and make it. But we had to believe in ourselves before anyone else. Yeah. And that goes for Adele. That goes for you. That goes for me. Yeah. And we still doubt ourselves. Yeah, yeah. It's what keeps pushing you, I think. And it also is what makes you kind. Yeah, yeah. What makes you have empathy. Yeah. And, um, but it's funny because Adele was there, you were there and you're two of my favorite people. Yeah. And you're both English. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, we're in London, so. Yeah.

But, like, two of my favorite, like, English people. Yeah, yeah. Because my experience of England is my friends. Yeah. And I love the UK. You know, good Charlotte, we have a great relationship with the UK. Yeah, you definitely do. It's like one of our favorite places.

Yeah. But it's the people. There's a personality there that is very you. It's very Adele. It's very, like, there's an honesty. And there's something about it that I think we could use a little more of. But it's funny, the two of you were there and you're two of my favorite. singers and two of my favorite my favorite friends just the whole thing is just so crazy to me to just be like

that's kind of i was there those records were just so inspiring well thank you to to to then be like okay now we're mates and we talk all the time and we work together we work together joey's here i've been on your record i was on that stage where where where i first saw you do doing it i've now done bricks than myself. Yeah. Like, it's an amazing, things like that where you just take a step back and you're like, wow, it's been a... Did you do Alley Palley, yeah, I did...

I did Leachia Pallie, yeah. Yeah. Which was amazing. Yeah, an amazing room. I love Allie Pallie. I do, yeah. What a great venue. Yeah.

It's amazing. All flat. But yeah, there's moments, there's those moments in your career where you go, wow. You think like Little Sam where I'm just like, it's an amazing, it's been an amazing life. So my theory, when this all proves it, in my opinion, is we only become what we actually truly see ourselves becoming. So if you in your very core belief do not believe that you could do that, whatever that 13 year old looked at and Saul on that stage, he somehow, some way, thought, I think I can

do that. if you don't have the I think I can on anything, you will not have it. You will not possess it. No. And my belief system is vision first, dream first, imagine first. And then don't worry about how. Yeah. And I think what you guys do really well is you let how happen.

You lean into how you feel. And if we think too much about how we want the thing we're imagining, to come, we're caught up on the how and not the thing. So if we don't imagine what we want and just go to bed dreaming about that every night and we let Howe happen every day and lean into how we feel. So, oh yeah, I think that's a good idea. Let's go. It comes to you if you're looking at the vision. And I think we attract what we want and we attract what we don't want. If we think, you know, the law of attraction, all that stuff. It's all the principles of like we will get, we will find what we look for. So if I'm looking for enemies, I'll find them. If I'm looking for friends,

I'll find him. Um, and I think that we are like somehow you manifested the connection that we have and I manifested it as well. Because when I heard your records before, yeah, Joey. Yeah, because I remember you were both you and Benj were talking about us before we even started working with you. I was like, wow. Architects. I was like good Charlotte like us. God damn. That's a turn up for the books. Yeah. Who saw that come in? Because it was, not me. It's never stopped impressing me. I appreciate it. You know what I mean?

The music has always impressed me. But somehow we manifested, and I say this in the bigger picture for anyone listening, is like we absolutely manifest everything in our life. Yeah. If I get up today and I'm looking for problems, I'll manifest them, I'll find them. There are plenty of problems to find. We go through the woods looking for the bears or we go through the woods looking for the berries. We'll find both.

They're all there. But I think the thing you and me, continually have to work on, which is probably slowing down and maybe even slowing. I always think is it slowing down my progress is how am I talking to myself? Yes. And am I encouraging myself as much as I encourage everyone else? Yeah. Because I love to encourage people.

Yeah. I think it's, I've had it actually with, with Stephanie from Brutus. They just supported us in the U.S. This is amazing. Amazing band. Getting some love at home too in their home country. Yeah. We tour with them and I love them

they're one of my favorite bands but Stephanie is very similar to me is she's so hard on herself as a vocalist and she's so like brutal to herself right so we would watch her like our dressing room would empty every night we'd all go watch then we'd go back and speak to them

I remember speaking to her one night and her and her she was upset with her vocal performance and I was like that was one of the best vocal performances I've ever seen in my entire life and she was sat there like in tears being like I've let you down like you guys, like you've brought us out and we've done this. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no.

And we spoke, I spoke to her. And she was like, you know, you know that if I spoke to you like this, you wouldn't listen. And I was like, yeah, that's true. She was like, you need to speak to yourself like this. And I was like, whoa, like left the room and went on stage and was like, yeah. Yeah, this is, this is, that's right. Like if I could see myself as not myself, how would I speak to myself?

How would I engage? How would I encourage myself? because I'm like you, like, I'll talk to you, I'll talk to her, I'll talk to other bands and other frontmen and other people. I'm like, you're good, don't worry about your voice, just do this warm up, you're going to be good, you sound amazing, no one can sound like you. You are the only person in these 20,000 people that can go and do you, so go do you. But me, I'll be going and walking on stage being like, you're about to let every single person in this room down. That's crazy. Everybody is here to laugh at you.

You know, like, that's just the way my brain goes. And it's rewiring that of like, everybody is here because they want to see you succeed. So just have fun because no one has bought a ticket to this concert to come and watch you laugh. Like that's so insane to think that. But it was a really interesting moment. And like I say, like when we have conversations where I'm like, this is great, you should do this. This new song's great. Try this.

Like, you know, we're bouncing ideas of each other even yesterday. It's so funny because, you're like, yeah, if you're doing it to me, I'm like, yeah, I need to take that on board, that actually take it on board. Like, just try and be nice to yourself. And then think about every area of your life, because this is where I get it from you and you don't even know you're, when you don't even know you're there is I struggle in other places. Like, I don't actually have, I have a little bit of stage fright. Yeah, same. It's brutal. But then I get out there and I'm fine. Yeah. And I don't think about how I sung after the show. Yeah. Yeah. I don't fucking care. Yeah. Like, I'll be honest with you.

It's done. Yeah. And I don't think about it during the show. Yeah. I'll lose my voice during that song, whatever, and I'm like, whatever. I just have a drink afterwards and I'm like, whatever. Now, that might be some self-esteem stuff. I might just be like, yeah, we're not that good anyways or whatever, but at the end of the day, definitely is. Yeah. So I'm like, maybe I should take it more seriously or whatever. But I think I'm going to go try my best in the live show, getting on stage is the hardest part. I'm anxious. I'm a little edgy. I'm a little uncomfortable. I might be a little unpleasant to the people who are closest to me. Yeah. And I'm freaking out. I'm just, yeah, you're like, you're not breathing properly.

You're just like, yep, yep, that, you know, get it done. I'm exactly the same way. I get a song in and I'm like, okay, I can do this. Yeah, then we're flying. Yeah, you've ridden this bike before. You know where you're going. But places like, to be honest with you, like the gym where I like am like, it's taking me years to get comfortable with like working out.

It sounds whatever, but like it's just real. It's like some self-esteem thing. And your music is one of the soundtracks I put on to like get ready to do things. that I'm scared to do. Yeah. And I don't know why working out would be something someone's scared to do, but I'm being honest. But it's honest, everyone has different things without their uncomfortable to do. It's hard for me, like to show up every day and like commit to something like that

because I don't feel like, maybe I don't feel like I deserve it or maybe I don't feel like I'm that kind of guy. Like I'm not a fit guy or I'm not a whatever. And I've never like pushed myself to see what's possible in that category of my life. I think anything that's like anything that intimidate you and you do, you learn a lot more about yourself after it. You feel better because you go through it, you know? Yeah, on the other side. And I'm on the other side now. Like, it's no problem. Yeah. But my soundtrack in the last three years when it's been like this start, stop, start, stop,

try this, try that. Maybe even more, maybe like five years. Um, my soundtrack has been architects. Crazy. And it like gets me there. Like gets me ready. It gets me. And, you know, I don't think we live in like a culture where being vulnerable and sharing something like that is like, I don't know, sometimes I hold back because people are mean. But it's the truth. And, you know, I think about anyone out there that's struggling to get to start something that they're scared to do. Because for you, it's like, I got to get on stage. For some people, it's like, I'm really nervous to apply for this job. Yeah, yeah. Or I'm really nervous to move houses. Yeah. Or to ask this person out. I think it's anxiety and fear and depression is something that I've dealt with for a long time.

Yeah. And I think if people just think that me getting on stage is just normal and that's just what I do, then that actually shows how far I've come as a person because it's hard work. Life can be real hard. It doesn't matter what position you're in or what you have or what you do. Mental health is very real and a real struggle. I think I've just tried to be really honest about that throughout my entire life. Yeah, you've been good about that.

Just conversations of like, I'm not the finished article. I don't, I certainly don't believe in, you know, like, oh, I'm fixed now. I'm fine. I've been through this bout of depression. And I've come out the other side and I'm like, I'm all good. I think it's an ongoing thing that you have to work at to just keep your head above water. Not that like I'm always drowning, but I am, you know, I'm swimming. And you have to work at it.

You have to be open. You have to be honest. You have to be honest with people around you. My wife is an absolutely saint within my life. So is mine. The rock of me. Everything I do, I try and do to impress her and make her think, I'm a good guy. So I, uh, yeah, I just try and be honest and work. You know, I go to therapy every week. I take antidepressants now again. And I've had bouts of being on them and being off them, and it's just what works for me. I'm not on a lot of them. I'd have enough that help me put my shoes on

in the morning and some people say you shouldn't do, it shouldn't be on antidepressants. Some people say you should. I really care. It's just what works for you. And I think they came to me at a couple of points of my life that I really needed them. And I'm so grateful to have been in a position to have that. But I think, yeah, just being honest, I think that's the real core of like what makes me, me is just not not hiding behind anything. I just want to be open and honest and show vulnerability because I think that's important. I think especially for young people and young musicians everywhere, I think just being able to be like open and honest is key because I think it's times where I've needed to hear people talking. talking about it they have. And you had that in that you you had that back in the day on young

and hopeless you had that hold on. It was like an amazing. I remember the video it was massive and so important. Straight up about suicide. Yeah. Because we got so many letters from people that either didn't kill themselves or lost someone and somehow in their two years we were touring on the first record. We got so many letters. And in 2000, 2001, and we went and made that record, we were like, we have to make a song because we can't write all these people back. Yeah. And it was always about suicide.

Yeah. It was really crazy how many kids back then were. It's not. But I think it's just, it's just such a big thing that everyone's going through. I think, like, the conversation needs to keep happening and people need to be talking about it because it's... Papa Roach just did something really great. It did.

Yeah. It was an amazing song. I love those guys. like, I mean, they're all amazing. Yeah. Kobe has just got like the maddest energy. I love it so much. I just can't imagine what he was like when he used to drink.

Oh my God. That guy comes in with the best energy. Yeah. Straight over the bat. And he's so supportive. He's a great guy. He's such a nice guy. He's like that band has always been a band that we've loved and unliked as well.

And, you know, he's always made time for us and been. so supportive and I've got to sing with them on a couple of occasions and he's come and sang with us as well and yeah again just like another sort of mad moment where like people that you grew up, idolizing and listening to you're just like texting and like

shooting the shit with and what a guy supporting each other with. His heart is really in the right place. He's a good guy. Yeah he's got a big big heart. What other bands would you say you guys have become really good friends with over the years besides good Charlotte and Papa Roach? We have got

so many. You toured with Knocked Loose, right? We haven't told we're not loose. Oh, I thought you did. We were not loose. We were friends with Not Loose. Okay. Are you friends with them? Yeah, Brian and Isaac, we've, you know, had a lot of chats with it. Great guys, great heavy bands. They were actually the funny thing about that band, and I've told them this was, it was the last band that Tom showed me.

Oh, wow. Yeah. I remember Tom showing me the first song that they kind of put out of their first, like big record, like the second record, I think it was. I remember him showing me in his house when we were doing some writing. He was like, I think you're really like this. You know when like your friends and you just show each other stuff. Yeah. It was the last band that Tom showed me. And I was like, wow, this is really, really good.

And he just again, like a sign that Tom had his finger on the pulse for a long time. For a long time. We've known them for a long time. Yeah, we've known them for a long long time. Like our first ever show in America, they were on. Right. Like however many years ago in the middle of nowhere and and, you know, a parkway drive, a really good mates of ours. Oh, they're cool.

Yeah, we've got so many friends because we've been doing it for so long. You guys have just been in every fucking festival, every tour. You guys, I would say... We're chatty. So when you know us, when we're in, we're in. We're kind of like my rescue dog, Sophia.

We're like, once she knows you, she absolutely loves you and you're in. And before it's kind of like, who's this guy? Who's coming into our like compound area? Who is this? Are you going to hurt me? They're quiet.

And you're like, no, they're not. And then when you're in, they're like, no, they think they're too cool. It's like, no, we definitely don't. No, we definitely don't. We're just shy dogs. Yeah, I think we'd be doing it for so long. That's one of the best things about touring. It was one of the things that I really was looking forward to getting back over to the US

when we hadn't toured it for a couple of years and actually getting over and seeing those people that I just hadn't seen in ages. Yeah. You know, where you see them around the world. And that's one of the best things about touring. It's like going to a place and being like, this person's coming tonight. persons come in there and you know it's like a like a little yeah just a hang around the world did you have a favorite metal festival this year favorite metal festival of the ones you played like

was there one that just stood out to you as your favorite i i really enjoyed bloodstock head on in bloodstock in the uk was awesome i didn't really know what to expect because it's quite a like heavy heavy metal festival i didn't know how we do i figured you guys would do really well we just don't have the confidence to me oh yeah and then um the fuck do you get it was amazing the promoter and the people that put on the show were like this is the most people we've ever had i was in fucking architects. I just walk into any fucking show. Yeah. Just be like, put me on anywhere. Yeah. But it's, yeah, I need to try and, again, I'm trying to be more confident. Yeah. But we do, yeah, we absolutely, we had a great show. The promoter was like, this is the most people we've

ever had through the door of the main arena on a Saturday night. Amazing. And they were so stoked on that. Um, we're full force was amazing. Um, in Germany. Oh, it's just, there was, it was just a year of like craziness. What about America? Aftershock was awesome Aftershock is always good Aftershock was awesome Welcome to Rockville Yeah

Which you guys are doing right We're doing this year Yeah And that's awesome All those Zimmer festivals Are amazing Yeah It's amazing to see

Actually now America Has its own festival season Yeah Like Europe is always been A time where it's like Oh you're doing festival season In Europe Are you doing this

And putting yourself around it Now America is like The US is like Yeah It's got it And it's like And your lineups are insane Yeah

Your lineups are like Your lineups are like You're like day just one day is like our like Friday, Saturday, Sunday. You're like looking at the lineups. You're like, America. Yeah. Bigger and better. I love it.

And I just think I love it. I love it. I love the opportunity of going out to people that maybe haven't heard of us. And I like we're in front of them and showing what we do best. And I think because we've been doing it so long, we've smashed festival seasons in Europe so many times we know how to, we know how to work a big crowd. Yeah, it does help. It helps. Yeah.

When you've played a thousand. thousands of shows and you know how to do a live show, whether something fucking goes out or something isn't working. There's something about being over in America where I'm like, I feel like I can be a little bit like more lairy as well. I like to sort of like attack the crowd and then sort of give them a little bit of love in between the songs and then rile them up a little bit more and call them pricks and have a go at them and get them rolled up.

And I think they see the sort of sense of humor in it. I'm not up there trying to be cool. I'm just sort of winding them up. I've loved it. I love this stage of our band and this sort of time that we're in. I actually love being out here at the moment. I think there's something happening in the US for us. Yeah.

There's an energy around it that hasn't been there up until recently. It's not for lack of trying, but it just feels like something's shifted. I'm telling you right now, I think it's where the culture's at with rock music, where it's rock music is having a real like across the board yeah it's not just nostalgia rock it's not it's rock across the board if you're a good band if you're good live if you have good songs new or old doesn't matter there's like a rock thing happening where people are listening to rock music and they want to go to rock shows yeah and i think you guys are are great rock band and i do think that like things are shared faster now yeah even five years ago it was different yeah like things get shared so

fast now and I think you guys have an amazing catalog of songs. When I turn people onto architects, they come back to me and go, oh my God, I don't know which songs my favorite because there's just so many good, like by the way, if you don't start playing Gravedigger. Yeah, we have, we, we did on the, on the Euro shows. In the set, because it's one of my favorites, but you have so many good songs. Yeah. And that's what it's all about. Yeah. It doesn't matter how, if I'm just discovering this band. That's where I think rock and the rock festivals, there's a real culture now, like a little bit more like Europe used to be. And it still is. But I remember we would do America in the 2000s or in the, you know, 2010 or whatever. And it was like, if you

didn't have a hit in America, don't give a fuck. Yeah. But you go to Europe and they listen to every record. Yeah. And you're playing an arena and they're singing the album cuts on the third that no one else in America. Those shows are the best shows. And it's crazy. So that's kind of happened in America now, I think. It's like this culture of live. And I feel like we've just got to a point where we're just like trying to be the best we can possibly be and put on the best show.

And in those situations, we're just like, we know how to do this. And we want to be the band that you go away and go, they were great. And you go and listen to the record? Yeah, that was a great show. was a great show. This was my favorite band of the weekend. This was this. I want to be that. I don't want to be ashamed of that. I don't just want to, I don't want to waste my time and turn up and just be like, okay. But also you guys. If I'm leaving my wife and my dogs, yeah. It's come and play over here. You best believe every single person that room has got

to go home going, they were awesome. They were fucking good. And to do what you do on the record live. Yeah. Because also, if you listen to a record with complications, it's like a watch. Yeah. You hear little things that are choices that. aren't necessarily easy or, you know, it's interesting when I listen to an architect's record, I don't just love it for the songwriting. There's complications in the music. Yeah, tell me about it. And you go, oh my God. Yeah. Like that little guitar part right there or that little thing. And that to me is, and then you see the band live and you go, fuck, they did it live too. Yeah. That's a good band. I'm very lucky to be in a band with some amazing musicians. Yeah. And I say every night,

I'm like, I'm so, I don't have to worry. I don't have to look around. I don't have to turn around. I don't have to think about it. It's just, it just happens perfectly every night. It's very rare that any of them will make a mistake. And I'm very,

yeah, very fortunate to down at the front. And I think the best thing I can do is be as good as I possibly can for them. You know? And I think we just, we're all in that mindset of. So I think in America, people are discovering you.

Yes. Yeah. I think you have a good core audience here. of like, of, like, heavy music fans. Yeah. But I actually think there's, like, this very big new wave over the last few years of rock fans who are discovering music, like, rock music truly for the first time. Yeah.

Or expanding their rock music taste. Yeah. Because of these, all these new festivals that have popped up in the last decade. And I think that you guys are experiencing, like, a wave of, like, new fans. I think also, I think, in the U.S. Yeah. I think also we're very, very, uh, I was going to say lucky.

We're very thankful for the team that we have around us. Yeah. We're very grateful for it. I think label, agents, management, everything around us is just, it just feels like a no-brainer. It's like our mates. Our mates that work for us. Like sometimes we see people and I'll be like, oh, we're not really talks about work, but it doesn't really matter because I know what you're doing.

I trust you. You know, we're just hanging out. I think it's important to surround yourself for people that, like, you can be yourself around. it's not just like, you're not just having to be nice, you know. I've had people that, I've had so many people that work for us that were at my wedding. Yeah. You know, and I know loads of people in bands, I'd be like, what? They're like, yeah, they're my mates.

Also going to be there. You know, it's, it's a, it's a, we're very, we're very thankful for the team that we have around us because it does just feel like it's not, if architects does, does well and something happens or we have a moment. And I think it, we have our fans as well, actually. It feels like it's a win for everybody. Big time. It's not like, we're not like, look at us.

We're like, look at this. Look what we've done together. Because we, I understand the importance of our fan base and the people that are around us. Because we're not rock stars. We're not. I walk my, my best part of being alive is walking my dogs and picking up their shit. Yeah. I love it.

I'm not picking up their shit, but I love walking my dogs in the countryside. And I love being, being live and doing that. But like, I'm not a rock star. I'm not walking around carrying myself with any sort of energy. I feel the same way. So when we do well, I think people are like, that's awesome. That someone like me has done well. You know, it's like, I can do that.

And if they can do well, then I can do well. And that's what I was inspired by when I was a kid. A good winner. So I'm Anna Mena. And like my music, my hair changed with me and has to be able to continue my rhythm. For so Potion Nine, of Sebastian Professional, has all what my hair needs.

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when they win what we got to do you know just we're just I'm like what's next let's go

yeah it's like when you see an athlete win and they go man my team was so good

they blah blah blah and you go like you know that that guy is a fucking baller yeah he won the game but he's never going to give you the satisfaction of saying yeah i fucking did it because he knows there's a lot of time left in my life where i can look back and think and pat myself on the back for what i've done totally like i don't need to now you know what i mean like i was poor and now i'm not good enough for me but one day maybe i'll look back on on how hard it was to to get out of that poverty. And I'll celebrate it. And every now and then me and Ben do celebrate it because we have moments where we're like, wow. Can you believe this is our life? Yeah, yeah. And it's important to have

those moments where you're just like, I'm so grateful for this. Gratitude. Yeah. And just having a conversation of like, wow, this is, this is insane. And like, look who we get to work with. Look who we get to hang out with. It's truly joyful experience to be backstage at one of your shows. It's amazing. I think especially with architects now, I mean, I used to have quite a few drinks. Thank God. Thank God I don't have quite a few now. You come off stage and it's like, cool, we just go play FIFA, go bed. Yeah. Like we have a thing now. This is so lame. This is so lame. We have a thing now where before we go on stage, you see a few of us get our stuff ready to like get our pajamas and get ready for bed. Yes. And it's like, you get off stage and it's like, who's going to get in the shelf? Who's going to be the fastest person to be there?

bunk you're getting your bunk and you're like I've won't or just like get cozy in the lounge you're just sat in the bus being like movie wouldn't want to be used out of dressing room i'm just I'm sat just looking at pictures I've taken for out the day on light room like see you later yeah you know it's uh I'm lucky I'm we're we're all the same people you know I'm so blessed to have them in our lives and I was talking about it to to someone the other day about like how how much we hang out and talk to each other we talk to each other every day I love those guys so much like we're just such a team and if the band stopped tomorrow we still talk to each talk to each other every day yeah we're still best mates it's it's it's you can't you can't fuck with us

well i think you guys have a very long way to go yeah i think you have a long road ahead of you yeah a really good one i think you're in the the fun part i think you guys have done a ton of work um you've been through a lot as a band and every fucking way you could go through something you could write the book on how to run a business, in my opinion. We always say it. We're like, what would architects do? They would just make a decision. So what do we think, guys, okay, that's what we should do.

Okay, let's do it. We say that all the time. Yeah. Because it feels that, whatever your process is, and it sounds like I'm not far off, but it feels like that's it. It's not like, how big is that going to be? Or blah, blah, blah, blah. No, it's just like, I feel like that's it.

And then we just do it and it's right. Yeah. And then we, what's the result? Okay, cool. Now let's go. Like, we're not all hung up on the result of every fucking. thing we do. Let's just keep going forward, forward. Make another record. Drop or another record. We have a thing where it's like if the four of us, if one of us is outvoted, we're still kind of like,

well, why is that one? What's wrong? What is it that's not right here? We're like, we'll put it through if it's, if it's, you know, it's for the greater good. And normally I'll come around and be like, yeah, actually it was right. But it's always like, we respect each other. If you actually don't think this is right. I trust you and love you enough to know that there's something in this. So let's dig in and let's figure out what that is. But for the most part, it's like we're all just, we know what we need to do. We're on the same page. We have the same kind of gut where it's like, yep, this is what we've got to do. And I think that's what's gotten you to this, what I think is going to be and is becoming as I think you're feeling it. This record is being

really well received. Yeah. And celebrated, I think people really fucking love your band. And what I think you're seeing is two decades of instinct work. Feel it, do it. Yeah. Keep moving forward. And I think you guys are coming into the fun part of being an architect's where you actually get to probably enjoy it a little bit more than maybe you have in the past. Yeah, I think that's it.

Now it's like just time for fun. Time to enjoy it. Done the hard work. We're still going to keep working hard, but you can loosen up your shoulders a little bit and have a smile. You can smile a bit. You can smile a bit. Doing these big-ass shows, it's fun. Yeah.

And bring that little kid with me and just a little kid in my heart and be like... Yeah, the 13-year-old who was in line at Brickson at 10 a.m. Yeah. Now you're doing this. And now he's on stage and you got to show him what he's done. Yeah. Sometimes. Let him take the wheel sometimes because I think really like that's what everyone's sort of actual talent is,

is born from that era, era of like being that, the formative years of like, I got it. I'll take the wheel. I'm good. You know, you looked after you grow up, you get to that point. You're like, actually, I think I know better. That's the kid who dreams. Yeah. So let them carry on. And I really do believe that the dream starts everything. So if we, anyone listening, take it for what you want. If we don't start with a dream around everything, our marriage, our ban, our life, our health, if we don't start with a dream, then we're just letting any other thought come in and rule what this becomes. So it's usually fear-based.

Right? Or we're wrestling between good and evil. But if we start with just a dream, my dream is this. So I always tell people, have a dream and a vision around every part of your life. Give yourself that. Because you don't get to be anyone else. I don't get to be Sam from Architects. I have to be me. And you get to be you.

And that's kind of like the journey for me is like, what's my dream around everything? What's the dream for MDDN? It's to work with really fucking great bands and be in an environment where everyone enjoys it and everyone like knows where they're at. Yeah. You know? And so I think you guys do that.

But yeah, it's that 13 year old kid who's at Brixton who goes, I'm going to do that. I want to give it a shot. Yeah. And I think more of us need to like remember that we all. But hopefully the people out there listening, maybe they haven't accomplished what they want to yet. And I always want to encourage people that are listening to our music.

that are getting something from it to find their band, to find their dream, to find their, you know, their hit record, whatever that is. It's there. Yeah. If you want it. If you want it. Some way, shape or form. I think now, like you say, like I've got to this point in my life where I'm so inspired by bands and music that they were doing stuff before anybody else.

Like going into a studio and recording to tape, like people don't understand until you, until you like look under the hood of what music. music is now. So much music is just recorded into a laptop and if it's wrong, you just delete it and start again. Yeah. These bands like the Beatles were going in and recording Sergeant Pepper on a four track. Yeah. Four tracks. That means there's four different things. They would record four instruments at the same time, but three, then play that back so it was being played back on one and record three more layers. It's insane. It's insane. Yeah. So bands like them and the stones and Led Zeppelin and Credence and I mean, Crosby Still's National Young, Oasis. Like, I'm fully going back, Tom Petty.

Yeah. It's like, I love all that music. It's just amazing. It makes me feel happy and smile. And it reminds, like, my dad was always playing the Beatles and the Stones and Zeppelin in my house. You know, it's been what made me love music. And when I was a kid, you know, I started getting into my own music.

And I was like, I don't want to listen to that. I want to listen to this. I want to do that. And, you know, you go back. You go back and you start listening to songs and you're like, I know, every single word to this. And I've not listened to it in 10 years. Now I want to listen to it on vinyl. Yeah, yeah.

And then you start buying it. And I'm very lucky to share that relationship with my dad musically where I'll come over to the US and call him in a record shop and be like, oh, I found this Beatles record. Like, should I grab it? Like he'll be like, oh, yeah, they printed this on this. And Paul had done this and like, you should grab it. and you know it's cool to mine and my dad's record collections are almost identical now I think so it's yeah it's cool to have that Sam love you man it's been a joy thanks for coming let's just carry on hanging out out there yeah we'll go out there and hang out thanks bro thanks for having me

congrats on the record thank you appreciate it and the tour thanks for being the best man you're the best thank you for listening to artist friendly we really appreciate it if you like the show can also follow us on spotify you can follow us on instagram at artist.friendly, and you can watch us on YouTube and Veeps. Leave comments. I always read them. See you next time.