Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Sam Carter of Architects - Part 1 (Rerun)

Episode Date: August 6, 2025

On this week's encore episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Sam Carter of Architects. After a busy couple of years opening for Metallica and headlining festival stages, Architects recently returned with their new album. Produced by former Bring Me the Horizon member Jordan Fish, the band set out to capture that raw energy, melding their live intensity with melodic depth. In a conversation with Madden, the Architects vocalist opens up about stories from his serendipitous relationship with Good Charlotte, his gratitude for a life of music, and the band’s latest album. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'm talking to one of my favorite singers. He's an innovator of heavy music, and he's the lead singer of the band Architects, Sam Carter. Let's go. I'm smoking up. If that's my kind, I don't want to bad times.

I don't want to have bad. I was thinking about talking to you because you're on my top ten list of people that I've wanted on this show. I appreciate you coming. do I have to start acting like I'm a nice person now? No, you are a nice person though. No, I appreciate you. You have your moments, but what I actually want is for people listening to get a shot of and an experience of the guy that I get to hang out with. Yeah.

Because I find you to be one of the most, and not just your music, because that also, it lives in your music as well. You know, when I listen to your music, I listen to it when I need to feel. encouraged. I listen to it when I need to feel motivated and I listen to it when I need to feel good about myself. So whatever it is that you do in music, it's I feel like you're preaching something to people who need to believe in themselves. Yeah. And maybe that's something that you're doing with yourself or for yourself, but really you're doing it for everyone that's listening. But the guy that I hang out with is encouraging, we'll tell you exactly what he thinks. So you get right to the bottom of something. and I know exactly how you feel about it.

With zero, it's not uncomfortable. Like you could tell me you don't like something and it's not uncomfortable. And I think I could say the same. There's very unique people like that that you listen to or you'll ask them something and you'll hear them and you actually consider what they said because they're just being honest.

Yeah. I think for me, I've always trusted my gut. I think since I was a little kid since I was probably like 12, 13 when I started playing music, for me, the only outcome for my life was for me to be a musician. I wasn't great at basically anything else.

So it was this or nothing. Right. For me, it was like, my gut is, this is what you have to do, you're going to get there and it's going to be hard work, but that's the only outcome. The only outcome has to be that for success or its failure. I remember literally like playing drums

and being like the, the only thing I want to do is be on the warp tour, which is crazy. But that was like a thing that I thought when I was a kid. I was like the pinnacle. The idea of this like foreign touring festival where all my favorite bands when I was at school were on was like, there's no way my little local band will ever be on that. And then, you know, fast forward however many years later I'm doing it with architects.

And I'm like, this is exhausting. Why do I want to do this? Yeah. But it was, it was an amazing tour. But I think for me, yeah, from that age, I've just had. this, I trust my gut. I know sometimes it doesn't work out, but I think it's just how I do things. It's like, if I really love something, I really love it. I love it and I want to do it and I'm ready to go. I'm going to go to war for it. And I'm the same with my friends. I'm like, if my friends are there

or they need advice, I'm there. I'm in your corner. I'm going to prep you up. I'm going to support you because I know that you'll give it back and, you know, we can go off each other. But there's sometimes I just, yeah, I know when something doesn't feel right. But it doesn't, Sometimes I'm like, it doesn't feel right because I know that I'm not going to give it 100%. So why would I even give it a shot? Or why would I even try? Because I know I'm going to just not be interested. So there needs to be a flame there.

You know the difference between yes and no. Yeah. Which is hard for some people. They don't know what no feels like at all. That would be something that I actually, it just came to me, what you're really good at in a very natural way, is knowing what yes feels like. and knowing what no feels like. Yeah. And I think if more people knew what their own yes and no felt like,

they could move through life less confused. I think for me, I know how much effort goes into yes. Yeah. So I have to really want to do it because I'm like, if I'm going to do it to the best of my ability. I'm going to bring everyone with me. I'm going to be on board. I'm going to be, you know,

I'm going to be the cheerleader. I'm going to try and help everybody. And if I don't, and I drag my feet, I know that I make that situation uncomfortable for everybody. because I'm like, I don't want to be here. I don't want to do this. And I have done that in situations. It doesn't help.

You know, it's not positive for me to be a baby about it. But, you know, I know that when I want to do something and I believe in it, I can really pull it across the line. I'm the same way. Yeah. It took me years, though, to get the self. Maybe it's like self-confidence or self-belief or self-esteem or something, but it took me years to speak up and go like, eh.

Well, you're kind of the same. You're kind of the same as me. when we have conversations where like, I'll tell you how amazing I think a song is or I think this record is or like talking back about, you know, old songs that you've done and how important it was. And you're like, yeah, yeah, cool, cool. But you know, you turn it around on me. Like, you can't take the, the compliments. I really struggle with it because I'm like, I'm like, I don't believe that about myself. So I'm like, I just want to talk about, you know, I don't talk to myself the way that I would talk to you about what you've done. And I think you're the same.

So that is actually, I was wondering, and I wonder sometimes if, so again, me and Benz were talking about you last night, and we find you to be like a guy who's always optimistic, always encouraging. Yeah, for all the people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For us. Yeah. So think about it. You've been here, you've been on a ride with us now for some years. Yeah. With like not only our band, your band, our company, which architect. is what I would say. We always look at architects as at MDDN. There's a spirit you guys have in the band. We've always said it. Like, what would architects do?

We say that all the time. When we're setting up the GC record, we're talking about this new GC record, and we're like, what would architects do? Well, they would just do this. They would do what they feel. They wouldn't ask, they wouldn't have a committee. They wouldn't have, they wouldn't second guess themselves.

They would try to get to the best answer with their team, whoever they, whoever at, whoever's relevant to that conversation, they'd make a decision and then they would go. Yeah, yeah. Instead of, you know, when you bring too many chefs in the kitchen and everyone's second-guessing. Everyone's got their ideas. I think the good thing with architects is like we all kind of know our positions within the band and we all trust each other to do what we do.

I think that's really important because if you have too many ideas and too many people throwing things forward, it's never going to work. But we all have like the kind of great or good idea of what architects should be and where we want it go and we all just push that together. But we let other people be the voices for it or or be the figureheads because especially me and Dan are very vocal about the band and what we think and we both feel really passionately and intensely about about the band and about a lot of things in our lives, right? So I think Ali and Adam are just like, we're going to let them do their thing where they need to be crazy and blow off some steam and but we know that they're going to get us to

where we need to be and, you know, we're lucky that we have each other. I think, We've always been that band that has just kind of moved around like a group of sheep. You know, when we first started touring bands would be like, it's funny because I see you walking around the venue and it's just like the four of you, the five of you. And it's always been that way when Tom was here and when Josh was here and throughout all ilks of the band, it's been a tight unit. It's funny. We're all so similar.

And I think actually now with the four of us, it's, yeah, Adam's been with us. since just before Lost Forever. He did a tour of us around the world. We did 100 shows called 100 days. And it was just before we signed to Epitaph. And we've just experienced so much together, but we just know how much this means to us. And it's not really like about money or success or whatever.

It's just like it's how we go to sleep. I always say it to Dan, I'm like, we've got to get this right because that's how I go to sleep at night. Yeah. You know, even like with coming out here and things that we've been doing, I'm like, we've got to get it over the line. I'll do it. I'll go because it's how I sleep. It's how I feel like I've done everything I can to make this be as good as I think it could be. That's the thing that I think that you guys have when I watch,

which I learn from, is a natural ability to make a decision based on how you feel on your instinct and not second guess yourself. Yeah. And what's important to you is important to you. That's the most actually the key to it. Yeah. Because when I see your band, when you could you could say like, okay, you're coming up your 11th album 15 years yeah well i've been in the band for 15 years now i think maybe a little bit more right i think architect is around nearly 20ish right so because it was like tom and dan school band right it's the first you know when you like first start and you start doing like covers or whatever like this is the same kind of band from that that moment you know yeah so so uh two decades it's been a minute yeah um and architects today bigger than it's ever been and it's ever been

in the world. Yeah. But it doesn't feel like that's a metric you guys actually hold as like, it feels like you guys make decisions for each record and your vision is what it is. And you guys organize around that and then you go into the world and your architects. And you do it. You do what you do. But then on the outside of it, you watch and you're like, okay, two decades in,

this band is bigger than it's ever been a new band to some people. Yeah, yeah. And making important music, if you look at this at the state of heavy music, I would say, I always say this, you don't have to say it about yourself because I know you won't. I would say you guys are one of the most important bands in heavy music. You've pushed the envelope of what can be, what can exist in the sense of how many people can listen to it. Yeah.

Right? Because 10, 15, 20 years ago, music with people screaming was not accepted by a large, larger audience. Certainly metal music was big in certain ways, but it was, but you guys have pushed the envelope of the intensity of what can be considered a big band, right?

Versus a garage band or a fucking dance hall band or whatever little hardcore show bands. You know, in the spectrum of heavy music, there's all these different things. And of course, heavy music fans love to argue about it. And I love it. It's good for heavy music. But I'm talking, if I zoom out as

a student of rock and roll and its existence in the world and where is it going and to me one of the most important genres of music that has to exist. If bands like architects don't exist then kids are not picking up guitars and going in their garages

and getting together and making original music together and finding out what they can be. Yeah, I think for us, I think the mission statement has kind of always been like, I want to look like just regular guys. I don't want to come across like a rock star.

I don't want to be a rock star. I just want to be a nice guy and just show that, like, it's, it's, you don't have to do all these things that you, you think you have to be or like, be a bad guy or whatever. I just want to be like,

I just love playing music. I loved it when I was 13. And it was my way of, of, like, creating some kind of success for myself. I think we're all the same. We go into every album,

just trying to write a good album, trying to write the best album. I think this one, in particular, we had a big conversation of like, it's our 11th album. You know, it needs to be, it needs to hit hard because a number 11 for someone that want to check it out, they already have an idea of what your band is and they either want

to check it out or they don't. You need to give them a reason for them to be like, wow, I want to check this out. And not everybody, in fact, I can't think of anybody that has their most successful album on their 11th. And it looks like we're about to have that, which is crazy. So I think you are going to have that and I've been seeing it coming. Right? It's not just stadiums with Metallica. Yeah. Or it's like all those things that lead up. Yeah.

And all those are a product of the records that came before. Yeah. So it's the effort. It's like the idea that if we put forth effort and do our best try and are honest about that. So that's the other thing I love about you guys. You're cool because you're actually trying to make the best record you can. Yeah. You're not saying whatever.

We don't care. Like the rock star thing is kind of like, I'll do this in my sleep. Right? And actually the honest thing is like, no, I'm actually trying my hardest here because I want to outdo my last one. Yeah. And actually the people that listen to my music, I care about them. Yeah. I think with us as well, we can like, we're so, I think it's kind of a British mentality of being able to point the finger at yourself as well.

And just go like, yeah, we tried on the last one. Maybe it didn't connect as well as we wanted to. We tried. There was no, no bad intention. We didn't do anything different to how we normally do. But we can always go when we know we've not done what we want. we can go, yeah, okay, we'll just learn from it. Yeah, you're not hard on ourselves.

You guys are very British like that. Yeah, we're down. We're like, give us a reason to like actually be happy. Yeah, yeah. But I like it. I think it's a driving, it's a driving factor in why we're still here and why we do what we do. I think it's just trying to navigate that because I think it can be helpful and it can be a hindrance. Right.

We've had a lot of conversations recently about like confidence and like confidence on stage and like, doing this and like actually being able to be like, yeah, this is what makes me want to be a better band. This is what makes me want to do this. But I actually need to kind of celebrate the fact that I have done this as well. And I can get on stage and I can do this. And I am a good singer rather than just being like,

you need to be better. You need to try harder. You need to do this. You know, there's a fine line between help and hindrance, I think with it. Yeah, with all of us. Yeah. Everybody.

And I think everybody, like, I always try to pull those little ideas out when we have these conversations because anyone listening that gets, it's like get out of your own way sometimes. Yes. And you know what? Also like give yourself a pat on the back when you went out on the fucking stage. I didn't even know how I got myself out on stage to start when I first started because

I was shy and I had a low self-esteem. Yeah, yeah. And half the battle is literally taking the steps onto the stage. Yeah. And I didn't think I was good enough. Yeah. And then you get out there. And of course, this comes with all art.

There's going to be a bunch of people that like you. and that's great and you're like oh my god i did something and they like it and then there's going to be people making fun of you yeah yeah it's just how it is yeah it's like talking shit it is and but in the early days there was hard for me because i was like i was susceptible to that because i had that low self-esteem yeah and then what i had to learn how to do was find um what i actually liked about myself yeah which is very hard that's and you have to find that sort of youth like child like energy of like what would what would sam when he was 13 do when he was walking on this stage would he be up the night before worrying about what his performance was going to be like

would he be like oh i'm just not i'm so worried i'm not going to be good enough to my he would be like i can't go to sleep because i'm so excited to go can't wait so i think like coming into this this sort of year and this sort of album tour i'm just trying to bring that kid out with me more to be like you did it you're here you've done the hard work This is the bit you get to enjoy. Don't get in the way of yourself at this point. You've written the record. Go have fun.

No one wants to see someone on stage freaking out, critiquing themselves. They want to see you go and have fun because you're their Friday night. Yep. You're their Saturday night. You're their party. You're their like escapism. Like even if you're not perfect because you're human, they still want to see you smiling and having fun and trying to show that you love this thing, which I do more than

anything. I think my sort of mission statement for this year is just smile more, have more fun, because it's, you get in the way of yourself. Yes. And say that you love stuff. Like my, my go-to thing, my whole life with, with the band and with myself, you know, I'm so worried. I've spent so much time worrying about coming across as arrogant or big-headed that when people ask me about the band, I'm like, yeah, it's cool. Right, next, tell me about your job. Like, how was your day at work? How was this? I don't, I don't want to talk about it because I don't want to be like showing off. And like, actually the work that I've done this year, I want to be like, yeah, I am excited for this tour.

I love my band. Yeah, I love my band. I can't wait to go on this tour. I can't wait for this release because I've given it everything. And I think, you know, the amount of times I've told myself, just like, just ask someone else, like, don't talk about yourself. Your brain starts to react to that where you start pulling the excitement out of your life. So, yeah, this year I'm trying to bring that kid with me and just be like, I'm ready to go. Which is fun. I'm Anna Mena And like my music My Cable

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you get more out of life that Yeah. We see you as like the guy who you encourage people. Like when I'm selling you, you're like, I'm kind of we're working on this thing.

And you're like, oh, fucking great. Yeah, yeah. And then it makes me feel like, oh, yeah. Yeah. We should make an album. Yeah. You know what I mean? You should.

Yeah. And you should play a show. Yeah. I'm like, ah, we're going to do that. And you're like, yo, you should fucking do that. Yeah. Exactly. And that's the energy you give in your music too.

Yeah. Because I tell you, every now and then I'll text you and I'll be like, y'all just fucking rip the work out. Like, architects is my go-to. Yeah. When I need to get back in my fucking, on my A game of like being the person I want to be. Yeah. I want to be a positive person.

I want to be someone who believes in things. And that when people are around, they get energized, not fucking depleted. I think that's the thing with us is that there's always like when our records really connect and really hit with people, there's energy throughout it. And people can use it as their escapism or their like force for good. I think that comes from Yeah, just trying to make the music Really honest and believable

And a bit of pain in there I think we're not always suffering You know, I'm not always sat around sad You know, Dan writes the lyrics But everything that he's talking about Is so relatable to me Otherwise it couldn't be what it is You know, we have conversations

I'm always trying to push him to be darker He's trying to go lighter and it kind of works He'll always be like, I don't know about this And I'm like, oh, I do make it really fucking dark You know? He's like, I don't want to do that. I don't want kids to worry. I'm like, I don't care. Bring it on. You know, I have that darkness in me. So I think that's why we work so well together. But yeah, I, I, I think the energy needs to be there. When you're making the record, like this record, how do you get there when you guys are going over the lyrics of a song?

And, and I'm guessing the melodies. How are those born? Well, on this record in particular, me, Dan and Jordan, work together, basically. like a tag team of like going around we're starting yeah we start with the basic ideas of a track get an SM 7 out start humming ideas back and forth building a skeleton from there grabbing things that are cool yeah that key let's try this key this is where this works or like this little little bit's great you know with Jordan this you know he hears something really quick and he's like no what you just did there's magic let's build from there Jordan and then dan is just like I think especially coming to this album it's just he's got an amazing ear for music

he's an amazing lyricist. I think actually having Jordan there as well, we were both able to say, this is amazing. Right. This line, don't change it because it's two of us. He's had years of me going,

this is amazing. But now somebody else coming in and producing and having that other ear, you've got two people being like, don't overthink it. No, this is fine, this is great. But we all worked together. It was an amazing experience,

and it was one that, like, I think it's the most involved I've been in probably like two or three records. That's cool. Where like I feel like I really had a purpose and something to bring to the table. And Jordan and Dan were both so inviting of that. You know, they're two musicians that I think are like two of the most talented people I know. For me, I can't pick up a guitar and write a song. I can't either, by the way.

I played drums when I was a kid. Yeah. You know, I can bring you an idea for a groove or I can bring you an idea of what I think a song should be. I can sing a melody. Yeah. But I need someone, I need an idea to be born for me to then go, I think it should go here, it should go here. I think we should do this. I think you should use this chord and this.

To be able to bring what I can bring to the table with those two was just so great. I mean, it's awesome to think about like the three of you because it's three of my favorite, like rock people. Yeah. You guys are just all talented in different ways. We're all a bit. Yeah. Yeah, but it's great. It's just unique.

But like Jordan is one of my favorite people. He's an amazing. He's an amazing guy. And I think... He's so, so talented. And he's sweet. Yeah. We work together a little bit.

And I could see him like, he's very... He's thoughtful, man. He's thoughtful. He wants to speak up sometimes and he's like, he's got... He can be a bit sensitive about where he gets in, like, when he's in a new group of people. But it's all coming from a thoughtful person who really cares about making music. I think me and him are very similar in terms of like, when we, when we, when we, when we're... when we love something, we're ready to go.

Yeah. And we're like pulling each other and we're going, we're going, we're going. And then there'll be points where like, I'm deflated or he's deflated or sad. But when we're down, we're like, yeah, okay, I'm done. And it was cool to try and pull each other through that. I think especially like vocally, it's my favorite record of vocals that I've ever recorded. It's amazing. And he pushed me, you know, to get that.

And Dan pushed me. They both were there. Yeah, I got pushed to places that like I've not been before, right? it was like a journey of like how much do I want to be the best vocalist? Yeah. Like am I just going to wrestle my laurels of what I've done or am I going to like go there? And they both knew that it was in there within me, right? So they pulled it and pushed and pushed.

In some points I'd be like, I'm storming out of this room. Yeah. Because I'm screaming my head off. I've got adrenaline flying through my system and like, I can't regulate this emotion, right? That's how it feels. And then other times, there's times where they get a vocal performance at me and I'm sat there like, I can't believe I've just done that. I can't believe like I've, that's.

me like I've really given that everything. This record vocally is the most satisfying record as a fan. You do everything that I love all the things you do with your vocals across all the records you put on this record. And it like is so satisfying. Yeah. I love it. Thank you. I appreciate it. The big choruses, the heavy stuff, the screaming. Yeah. Every part of it is just like it's like you perfected the things that you do that I love on all your records. And there's aspects of each song across different records that, like, my favorite parts really is like you know all your moves. I felt like, I appreciate it coming from you of such a compliment, really.

Much stuff I can't do. I don't know how a lot of it happens. I think I needed to believe that I was actually good. I think for so long I've sort of just sat there and been like, yeah I'm a good I'm alright I'm an all right I'm an all right vocalist I do the job you know postman goes and delivers post I don't need a pat on the back for it you know just that's what I need to do but actually I think this time it was like no now I know I'm done like I'm done I don't want to just be like okay I'm like I can do everything to a good standard and I know I can and I've worked

with my vocal coach I've worked with Jordan I've worked with Dan it's like just go and put in all those years of hard work and actually show that you really believe in yourself. And yeah, they both got that out of me. So it was a little bit you and a little bit working with them. Yeah, I think it was just the right time. I think it was, we all had something to prove. I think Jordan had just come out of the situation of not being,

we bring me, we're on our 11th album, we want to prove it. I'm coming in wanting to show that it's our strongest album. And then together it was just like, okay, let's go. We're all pushing it up the hill. We're all getting it there. I thought it was a really, really cool decision. that you guys decided to collaborate with Jordan and make this record.

It felt like more than friendship. I mean, obviously you guys are friends. And if you know Jordan, you love him. He's just so talented and such a good guy. Yeah. I believe in him as a producer. I think he is a fucking badass. Well, I think we had history with him, which is really special.

When we did Doomsday, which was our first song after losing Tom and coming through everything, we did that song with him. Or we didn't do it with him. We wrote the song, ourselves and I remember we got the first mix back and I remember Dan calling me

and he was like, I need you to be really honest with me right now. What do you think of this song where it's at? And I just remember being like, it's not good enough. And Dan said, that's exactly how I feel. I'm going to call someone. I'm going to call Jordan. I think we could try and go with him, do some producing and we'll get it there.

He called Jordan, call me back and then the next day Jordan was like, come up to my house. Like I'm at home, just come up to my house. We'll do the song together. So we went up to his house. We were there for a day, for a night and then a full day and then went home. And we worked with him on Doomsday. And he just, you could tell that he just cared about kind of like our journey and our story and where we were.

And like how important that song was. And it's one of our best songs and one of a very, a very important emotional moment. And then from there, we were both obviously so busy. I would have loved to have done stuff with him. But bring me as busy as we are. They're always writing. We're always writing. And, yeah, the moment kind of.

kind of came up it was it was odd we had a me and dan had had a really big conversation sort of the the night before this the other conversation we're going to talk about about what we needed to do like i'm saying it's our 11th album what do we think it needs to be how do we do it like how much does it mean to us to get it there and then we played a show with with bring me the day after we had this conversation and we were having a conversation with him in the in this hallway outside the dressing room and we were talking to him he was like you know classic like what are you doing next what we got coming up and we were talking about the record and he was like oh so what are going to do? We were like talking about it and we were like, what would you do? What would you do? We're

inspired by you and the band. Like what, where would you take this? What would you do? And he was like, do you want to be really honest? We're like, yeah, we're like, we want this. We want this chat. Had a really important conversation for about half an hour about everything and, and Dan went off to the toilet and before he came back, Jordan was like, I'd love to do something with you, but I don't know if Dan would be interested. I was like, yeah, he would. Yeah. And I think he was just like, thinking from like a producer point of view because Dan had producer records. I was like, yeah, he definitely would.

I remember Dan coming back over and being like, oh, Dan, Jordan thinks that you don't want to work with him. And he's like, I don't think you want to work with me. And they were just stood there like pointing fingers at each other. And then he was like, oh, I'd love to write with you and I'd love to work with you. And we walked off. And I remember us just being like, well, it's a nice idea,

but it's never going to happen. It's never going to happen. But it's cool that we had that conversation. And I feel like it lit a fuse. And then everything happened with him and bring me in. I remember him, we'd been working. on Seeing Red, which was the first song coming back on this record. And we got the song to a really good point.

And then we were like, well, there's no harm in just shooting the song over to him. And we sent it over and he came back with like, he just did a quick face time with us and was like, I do this, this, this, this. We went and did it, sent it back to him. He was like, yeah, and do this, this. And then we were like, oh, my God. This is great. Then we didn't hear from him for a while.

And then everything happened. And then he called, he called Dan and said, like, I'm. you know, I'm free. I want to do a record. Yeah. Do you want to do a record? And we, Dan called me and I was like, yeah, I'm done. I'm in.

Let's go. I'm down. And then within a month, we had a studio time booked out for a week. And within the five days, we did three songs. And the first song that we got done was curse straight away. That was done in 24 hours. Yeah, one of my favorites. I was singing it coming in.

Yeah. And me and Dan had had that riff. We tried it a million different ways, different keys, different voice, different chorus. different vocaries, different choruses, different ideas. Just played that riff to him and he was like, this is an architect's riff, let's go. And we just built the song around there and it was super exciting. And evil eyes, I think, came out from that session as well,

which is on the record. And another one that didn't end up making it. But it was, yeah, we were just, after that, it was like, yeah, let's do an album because we've clearly got chemistry. Yeah, but it's interesting because this show is kind of modeled after that. Yeah. It's hallways, dressing rooms, dinners, parties, where we interact with one another out there in the world, different artists.

It's in a calm place, isn't it? It's like a, like you're safe. And we don't have to be anything. We can just be- Your guards down a bit more. Real people. Yeah. And then those conversations are the best ones. And I think a lot of times, like fans and people that listen to music, which is everyone,

they don't actually get to see the side of the artists they like as real people. Oh, yeah, like, mates. If you ran into a coffee shop or if they had dinner with them. Yeah. And that's the thing I like, about doing this show because everyone that I've had on this show, I actually want to experience them the way I would if we were having dinner. Or we're at someone's a friend's party. Yeah. Or, you know, you just randomly meet someone. And I met that guy. He was fucking cool.

Yeah, yeah. He was sound. Yeah. He was down. Yeah. If you're at an award show or you're at a fucking thing, you don't get anyone in the real. Like there were. Some people will still get their like, they're like, oh, oh, yeah. And you're there and you're like, oh, oh, am I dressed in the right close? It's like, you're never going to have the real. experience to meet each other and interact, but with bands, we get to tour with one another. So we do get to interact that way. A lot of these conversations happen, but it's interesting because I go back to instinct. You guys, conversation in a hallway, talk to Jordan.

Then you go and you make a record. You make this record, which I think is the best record of your career. Yeah, thank you. And I love it. Yeah. I can't wait for it to come out. I think it's our best as well. It's just so good.

It's just a great listen. Thank you. You made it with Jordan, who just changed. changed his career, right? He just had a career change in the sense of he's in a band. He decides to go and go full time all in. I want to produce records. I have a dream. I want to produce and write and make classic records. Yeah. And we talked about this. I talked to Jordan about this and he's got dreams. And I encourage dreams, right? I just think if we stop dreaming, we die. Sometimes things just happen that don't make sense. And things just fall into place and it and it works out. And I think

the best moments of my life have been that where it's just like, this isn't supposed to make sense, but it's just happened. There's something about that. There's something about architects, having an idea that's just coming from feeling, from instinct, from whatever, the way you do everything else,

you just go, yeah, that's cool, let's do that. And then you just do it. And then you make this great album, but you also inadvertently, like, are the first record in what I think is going to be an amazing career of a producer that's going to make amazing records. I agree.

And it makes a lot of sense to me that architects would be the first band that goes, yeah, yeah, we'll make a record with you. Like, it just makes so much sense to me. Yeah. And you may not stand back and analyze all of it, but that's what I do. Yeah. I analyze everything and go like, what did you do there? Those clever little bastards.

Those fucking guys. But it's because you guys are just animals. Yeah. You just do what you feel and you go. forward. You're not thinking about size particularly. You're not thinking about you've done the arenas. You've done the stadiums. You've done the entire spectrum of shows of what you could do as a band from the smallest show to the biggest show. You've had number one record in multiple territories. You've had for a heavy band that screams. Yeah, we've done stuff that shouldn't be

possible for a band that's like us. Think about it. It should not be possible. It wasn't before. Yeah. Someone's screaming and doing the things and then singing. And so all I'm saying is to blaze a trail for ourselves, right? And then inadvertently, we, we help others because we hush what's possible for what wasn't necessarily accepted before. And we could go in art, in music, in culture, in any which way, fashion, any way we want to say, where was something not quite accepted by everyone? And then who pushed it to the edge every time, and more people accepted it and now are more bands that are heavy

that can do all the things however they want to express themselves be big and make an actual living. Our conversation continues in part two.