Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Shaggy 2 Dope of Insane Clown Posse

Episode Date: July 31, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Shaggy 2 Dope of Insane Clown Posse. Given that Violent J sat down with Madden last summer, it’s fitting that the other half of the Detroit horrorcore outfit joins the series — just in time to talk about Gathering of the Juggalos. Beginning in 2000, the annual festival acts like a modern-day Woodstock, bringing together a community of kindred spirits where “anything can happen — and quite often does.” The festival will celebrate its 24th year in August, including performances from Rakim, Kim Dracula, DJ Paul, Vended, and beyond. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'll be talking to rapper, producer, and co-founder of insane clown posse, Shaggy Tudow. Let's go. That's my kind. I don't want to bed times. I don't want to have bad. Are you a cat guy? No. It's my cat. Like, I'm... I'm a cat guy. I'm a cat guy. I'm more a dog guy, but we have a cat. That's like the actual cat that I own on my arm, you know? I'm an animal guy, you know what I'm saying? But I'm a dog guy over a cat guy. I'm a dog guy too. My cat rocks. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? But I agree. I wasn't a cat guy. And then we got a cat. You know how that happens. Because I feel like most cats wander into your life. Like our cats are rescues or whatever. Yeah, so's ours.

And I was like, no. Because we have two big dogs. And I'm a big dog guy. And I was like, no way are we going to disturb the house with these cats. And now that. The cats like me better than everyone in the house. See, now, look, I can want up you because I was like, no fucking cats, man. You know, my kids and wife, of course, like, cat, cats.

I'm like, all right, we can get a cat, but here goes the fucking, here goes the fucking hook to this shit. Yeah. I'm not fucking with the litter box. No litter box. Yeah, I'm not cleaning it. You, and it's a purely indoor cat, too. I was like, as long as you handle the fucking the litter box, I'm good. That's funny.

And you know what? My wife has kept her word, still to this day. I never have to fuck with the litter box. That's funny because that is exactly the conversation we had. I said, no litter box. I'm not touching it. I'm not even looking at the litter box. Right, right, yeah.

Tide it in a bathroom that I don't go in or whatever. And she kept her word. Nice. She keeps... No litter? No litter box. We did it. Right, we won.

Finally. That's funny. Isn't it funny how like marriages are all the same? Yeah, basically, it boils down to it. How long have you been married? Uh, shit. Um, when I get married? 2013, so 11, it'll be 11 years this year, yeah.

Yeah, we got married in 2010. It'll be 14 years. Okay. See, it's crazy though, because I actually dated my wife in like 1998 and 9. And then I told her to fuck off back then. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

And then in 2009, the end of 2009, we bumped back into each other. And then, you know what I'm saying? Stuck together since 2009 and the 2009. Yeah, it's crazy. good. It's funny too because I feel like I'm lucky for whatever reason we make it work. Same. But I have plenty, but we're, you know, at our age, we have plenty of friends who couldn't figure it out. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I actually understand too. I'm not sitting here going like, oh, we're, we're still married. Like, I feel like it may be because we're artists. I don't know,

man. It's just to a point where it's, you know, you just realize what the fuck you're supposed to do in a relationship like that. You know, it's like, if you're not willing to fucking give up everything you got and share it, then there's no point to it. You know what I'm saying? Because, like, it's not 50-50. It's 100, 100, you know? One of the things that I was thinking about, I really wanted to talk to you about,

I got to have Violent J on the show. I really, really like him. Yeah. And I was thinking about you guys about what you guys have accomplished and what you built and how long you've been doing it. And how relevant you guys continue to create your world as a music fan and as an outsider to watch it. It's just interesting. Yeah.

Right. You guys aren't boring. Right. Yeah. We try not to be. You're not. It's just, it's, and then if you go around, right, because I talk to people and I'm like, oh, I'm talking to ICP, it's relevant. People are interested. They want to, they want to get to know you guys.

Yeah. I think a lot of that is because we were so hated back in the day. and they're like, they're still fucking around, huh? What are they doing? Why are they still around? Let me peep that out. You know what I mean? Some shit like that.

I could be totally fucking off the mark with that. You know what I think you're right. I think there's something to overcoming. Because the only thing that can make us stop is if we pull the plug. If you decide. Right. Because we never were like, we never had to play by the rules of like majors or like, you know, play by the fucking MTV rules or like, you know, any corporate shit.

you know what I'm saying where suits are involved we never had to play about those rules you never you never yeah you you denied it right yeah yeah well we told the fuck off early thank you which blackballed us for a while which was our advantage you know what saying in the long run it turned to be our advantage yeah that's what I think about is what when you decide nah I'm not gonna do it the same way everybody else right right I'm gonna be me yeah um that could be in your business or in your life. The first phase of that is rejecting the norm. And so short term, it's painful. Short term, it's, it's, it's adversity. Right. Yeah. The work is a lot harder. You know what I'm saying? There's no question about that because ain't nobody helping. You got to figure the shit out yourself or it ain't

going to happen. Because at that point, you're the only one may not going to happen. You know what saying? Nobody else is stepping in like, oh, let me show you how to do this. It's like, let me try to do this. Oh, we fucked up. Now we got to figure out how to do it a different way. that's the right way to do it, you know what I'm saying? And long term, you build something. Yeah, big time. That no one can take. Strong, right, yeah, strong.

And that's what I was thinking about the amazing thing that you guys have accomplished besides all the music. And I don't want to use the word brand, but it's the only word I could think of that covers what you built this recognizable thing that everybody knows. Mm-hmm. If I say ICP to anyone that listens to music, they know what it is. And you know what? I'm finding out nowadays, it's not even motherfuckers.

that listen to music because like our name comes up on like sitcoms and fucking all this other shit you know what I'm saying but like we always say me and Jay we always talk about this our notoriety doesn't add up to our success in the light doesn't add up to our bank accounts though you know what I said we're never never able to to monetize it the way it should have been because a lot of our shit also is is what we have made we just turned around and put right back into this shit We weren't sitting there enjoying Lamborghinis and fucking all shit like that. You know what I'm saying?

It was like, all right, now that we got this money, let's put on a festival on our own. Yeah, reinvest it. Which is fucking stupid amounts of money with no corporations behind it. You know, so it's no sponsors. So it's just like, I don't know if that's dumb or smart, but it's worked for us, you know. I actually think it's smart. I think it's because I've been doing the same thing for like not as long as you guys. So we were on labels for a long time.

And then the last really 14, 13. years we decided okay let's be independent and let's just start building out something that we can hold yeah of course when we're older and you know 13 years down the road we have built some things yeah and it's a longer road but i think there's something about the pride of ownership no doubt knowing that you you did it you know what i'm saying yeah of course i mean pride yeah it's like I'm that motherfucker now, you know what I'm saying? I know how to do it. And nothing scares you.

Like, what's someone going to tell you? You couldn't be more right with that statement, you know what I'm saying? Because you can't be threatened because you don't need them motherfuckers. You know what are you going to do? Tell me, you're not going to help me do this shit. You're going to blackball me from that? Go ahead. I don't get a fuck.

You know what I'm saying? I'll just do it this way. But I think that's why you guys are relevant because you, if you had, if somebody had dangled a million dollars over your head in that time, and you said, okay, I think it would have watered down the vibe and spirit of what you guys do. And I think that's why your fans, because I'll tell you this, your fans show up. When you do a podcast, they listen. Yeah.

When you guys do something. And then let's go on the outer ring of your fans and let's call it music fans. Whether or not they're a day, everyday ICP listener, they still feel real or not. Yeah. And there's something about the integrity of what you guys do. And I think it's something like, I don't have a price. Right. Yeah, exactly.

Right, I'm doing this. This is, I could do this and that, but this you can't touch. Right. I have that too. Like there's a couple of things that there's no price on it. There's things I'll go do. Yeah, of course. But this thing, the core, I think about Good Charlotte and where we're at today.

And I go, that's not for sale. Right. When we show up, it's because we want to be there. And now, look, and yeah, because here goes a thing. thing. They're selling out and then there's shit you do what people might accuse you're selling out, but are you selling out? Because we've been accused of selling out on certain levels of doing things, right? Yeah. But here goes the thing. It's like, okay, let's say we got called sellouts because we did something on the George Lopez show back when that was a thing.

That was cool. Yeah, but here goes the thing, though. Your sellout when you change what you're doing to get paid, you know what I'm saying, for somebody else's shit. You know what I'm saying? People come to us and if they ask us to do anything that we don't normally do for you know they're bent fuck off it's not happening you know what saying but if they want what we do we're more than willing to do it you know what saying as long as we could do it our way we're all for it you know what I'm saying any kind of light we could take and shine on on juggalo's we're with it you know what I'm saying and that's that's not selling out that's fucking we're not changing what the fuck we do when we when we do things outside of the juggalo world I can feel festivals now but you know what

we still spray fago on these festivals. You know what I'm saying? We do the fucking songs. We don't change our shit up to do anything. You know what I'm saying? And if they want to invite us into a world that we're not normally invited into, as what the fuck we're doing and not ask us to half step and not do some shit, all about it.

You know what I'm saying? All about it. I think that's why it's still here. I think it's so I think it's a longer road and the short term doesn't feel as profitable. But it is as profitable. It's just you're putting the money back into the thing you love. Yeah, no question. Right? Instead of watering it down and then keeping some money here. So I think about me and my brother talk about this all the time. We have three categories for decisions on what we will and will do. One is, I would do that for free. I fucking love that. Right. Yeah. Two is, I will never do that.

I will feel like a joke if I do that. Three is, you know, I wouldn't do it for free. I don't mind it, but this is how much I need, I think, to show up and do it and feel really good about it. There's got to be worth your time. Right? So those three categories, if I can, if somebody brings an opportunity to me and I look at it and I go, there's no way I'm ever doing that. I would feel like a joke if I did that. Right. It's just a no.

Right. We're not getting into a negotiation. Not negotiating. Not wasting their time. This one, it's, I would do that for free. So let's figure out what works for you and we'll figure it out. And then it's an easy negotiation. Two is I think this is what I need to feel really great about that because I don't mind it, but I don't, it's not necessarily, I'm not excited about it.

Right. But I don't mind it. Right. And then it's a negotiation, right? And usually if we categorize opportunity that way for us, we can make really quick decisions and negotiations. Right, right. So that it's easy for both sides. Because what we also don't want to do is like get into a negotiation we shouldn't be in.

Right. Or you can look at who's the benefit. for you know what I'm saying because if it is something you're like maybe and it's more benefiting than them you know what I'm saying for you to come out and be away from your family and your kids and giving up your time it's got to be worth my fucking time you know what I'm saying because that's all we have now is our time you know and you know getting older that shit goes by like this you know it was just fucking 2000 you know what I'm saying it'd be like 2000 it was 20 years ago I'm like what the fuck that was 20 years ago holy shit it was you know what I'm saying so as far

I'm concerned, my time is so fucking valuable. It's ridiculous, you know what I'm saying? Because I'd much rather be at the crib. I can work out of home and do everything I love right there and see my kids every day and marinate with my wife and enjoy my life, not be in a hotel, you know what I'm saying, dealing with these people I don't know and runner, you know what I'm saying, this and that.

So you need to make it worth my time to come out and benefit your shit. You know what I'm saying? And if you're able to make it worth my time coming out where I can then go home, and benefit my family from what you gave me, then I'm down to do it, you know what I'm saying? If it's something that I'm willing to do, though, you know what I'm saying? That's not something myself short.

That's a really good, that's a really good point. I feel that. Because I'm the same way, man. I want to be home with my wife. I bet shit, we've been on the road. Too many times. Fucking too many years. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? It's like I was just saying to somebody else. It's like, okay, so I got my sons, I got 27-year-old sons or twins, right? I got a 21-year-old daughter. Okay, they're grown, you know what I'm saying? I have also a nine-year-old son and a seven-year-old daughter, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

So my older kids, they were born in 96. Right. You know what I'm saying? Shit, 96 to fucking 2000-something something. We were not at home, man. We were on the road. I wasn't a fucking deadbeat. I wasn't an absent, but I wasn't home a lot.

And I wasn't with the mom, you know what I'm saying? So when I was home, I'd be with my kids like a motherfucker, you know what I'm saying? But I was out on the road so fucking much back then. I missed all the milestones. I missed birthdays. I miss this and that. So with my kids now, I don't need to be on the road like that. And I'm fucking loving seeing them every day and watching their milestones

and watching them grow and being as part of their life as much as I possibly can. So you really got to make it worth my motherfucking time because I've been through that shit where I've given my time up to get to where I'm at. You know what I'm saying? I'm not willing to negotiate with my time no more, you know, because I've already paid a lot of dues with my time. Yeah, you already did that. We're not getting paid, you know what I'm saying?

That hits me because I think I had a very complicated relationship with my dad, so I didn't have those memories that I wanted to have with him. And I didn't have a, I had an absent dad, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, I want to make sure my kids got the dopeest fucking dad they could possibly have, you know? Yeah, it's pretty crazy. I don't want my kids growing up like, oh, man, my dad wasn't around, you know. No, fuck, no, they ain't going to be allowed to say that. Yeah, I think about that.

But then we also have to make a living, so we find the balance of like, how do I make a living and, you know, we do our best. That's what every guy, I think every good dad is just a guy trying his best. Yeah, and we all have our own version of it. But I kind of weigh up because I missed some stuff with my kids in the earlier years from zero to like six. and I missed a bunch of stuff because I was working still, you know? Yeah, of course. And I weigh it up now because they're teenagers.

And I know I only have a few years left of all this, of this family time. Because then once they're 18, 19, they're out. Yeah, even before that, because I don't go fuck about being on your trip. When they start driving. I don't want to be around your old ass. You know what I mean? Sure, you were in a cool-ass band, but shit, you ain't in fucking this band now that we're listening to, you know what I'm saying?

And to every kid, their parents. are, especially when they're teenagers, the last person they want to, like, deal with is their parents. What was I said? I read, like, a while ago, it was like the lead singer to Slayer's teenage daughter is just like, oh, fuck. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's like your dad's Slayer, though. You know what I'm saying? He's cool. Doesn't matter. It's her dad. Yeah. If you're somebody's dad, you're not cool to them. Right. And they definitely don't want to hear what you think is cool. Right. I always ask myself when I'm called away, right, when some opportunity comes in, Even for two weeks, you're like, is this worth it?

Mm-hmm. And then you look at that two weeks and you'll straight up decide, okay, if it's someone's birthday, it's not happening. 100%. I'm staying. Or I better have a day off on that so I can fly home or whatever to fuck. I'm getting home for it. Right.

And you, that's how all. And that's not negotiable to me nowadays. You know what I'm saying? Me too. 100%. And that's how all the decisions are measured now. It's like you look at, okay, the opportunity and what's that worth? And then you look at what's it taking away?

What is it taking you away from? And then you're just holding them next to each other and you're trying to figure it out. What's more valuable in your life? You know what I'm saying? The money you're getting for this or what you're missing out on, you know what I'm saying?

That memory you're missing out on. Is that money worth that memory? You know what I'm saying? Because I mean, that's what life is about is creating fucking dope-ass memories. You know what I'm saying? That's it. So are you giving up for that memory?

You know what I'm saying? It better be something that worth that fucking memory, damn it. You know what I'm saying? Or fuck that whole situation, you know what I'm saying? You know? Yep. Because you ain't going to remember what the fuck you did there, but you're going to remember that you fucked up and didn't make it to that, you know?

Or vice versa. You go to that. You're going to remember that to the rest of your life. You're not going to remember what you blew off because of that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And I think that why I like these conversations is actually I think that most people that are just listening to our music or watching us do the things we do, they don't actually, they can't feel

that behind it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you never will. unless you experience it. You know, that's why everybody is, like, everybody wants to be a famous person and this and that. It's a lot of fucking hitches that come with that.

You know what I'm saying? You got to give up a lot of shit to do that. You know what I'm saying? That you don't understand as just being like a nine to five person. Like, I'm envious of a lot of motherfuckers that just do that because they're able to do shit that I can't. So on the flip side, people are looking at, you know, I would kill to be like in that situation.

But it's, it's cool. It's what I dreamt about. It's what I wanted to do, you know what I'm saying? But not everybody's cut out for it. I've seen, we took him people on the road and shit. You know what I'm saying? They're like, yo, let's go the road. Finally, I'm fucking doing it.

You know what I'm saying? A weekend, they're like, my dad's sick. I got to go home. You know what I'm saying? You're like, okay, man, it's cool. And then you see my Instagram at some party. You know what I said, oh, back in the house. It's like, your dad ain't sick.

Just say you're not cut out for this shit, man. It's not for everyone. You know what I'm saying? Because it's not easy, man. It's being away with, especially people that aren't used to being away from home that, like, you know, didn't start younger, traveling and touring and shit. You know, you jump into it when you've already got a family established at home. It's not going to work, man. You can't at that point, you know, unless you're willing to give that shit up, you know.

Yeah. That's why it's hard even at the beginning when you got a young kid when you first starting to tour. Even though you're young, it's fucking rough, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I was talking to a guy the other day singer from this band I really like, and he's got a four-year-old. And they're in there, you know, they're not a new band, but it's a band called Health. It's a good band. They're not in their beginning, but they're nowhere near their end. Yeah, of course.

They're on the rise, you know. Yeah, but they're not at a point where they can pick and choose 100%. Right. They have to go now because it's just, it's growing. Right, yeah. And they got to keep their foot. That's the other thing about what we do making art and making music and building legacies is you guys built a legacy that you have to now look after.

So you can say yes and no to things that you choose. Right. But that's because you did all that work. Yeah, of course. So you did give up memories and all that shit. Tons of them, yeah. And so you suffered through what we all sacrificed to build our legacies. and then on the other side of it in success,

it's still hard work. Yeah. But you can be a little bit more measured and thoughtful about how you curate that legacy. Yeah. That also comes with age, too, an experience. Age and experience. You know what I'm saying?

And then a band like that, they're on the rise and they have to go. Yeah. He's got this kid. That's what you're talking about. You have to do that in order to reach that level of success. You know what I think? I think that's what a lot of people don't understand, too,

especially with nowadays shit. with streaming and fucking, you know what I'm saying, influencing and shit like that, you know what I'm saying? Because I stream and do all that shit as well, you know what I'm saying? And that's another full-time job, man. You know what I'm saying? It's like people will just, oh, man, I'd be nice just being a fucking kid opening toys up

and then you just get millions of dollars for taping it. There's a lot more it goes into it than that. You know, it always looks so much glorious, more glorious from the other side, you know what I'm saying? They don't see the work you got to put in the editing and the fucking brainstorming and what the fuck that's going out

and making it happen and the set all the lights and everything and setting everything up and you know what I'm saying it's a lot of work that goes into all of that shit if it was that easy to do

everybody would do it you don't say everybody would have a hit show you got to be consistent you gotta fucking just like touring you gotta go on tour it the right time with streaming

you got to be consistent as fuck on a schedule you know what if you dip up fucking attention span as what nowadays fucking songs are fucking two and a half minutes now because motherfuckers attention spans are like that you know what

saying yeah so if you're not rapid firing that shit you know that takes a lot of fucking brain power thinking of that shit you know what I'm saying the second you relax on that shit they're on something else you know what I'm saying yeah and you have to be good exactly you have to bring something to the table that's interesting for motherfuckers to want to grab onto you know if you're naturally good and talented and you work really hard you might have a shot right right so And it's still like hitting the lottery, even with the talent, even with the work ethic, even with all that, it's still a fucking shot in the dark. You know, what really blew my fucking mind, I think it was like 1995 or something like that. And we were signing with Jive Records.

Okay. And I remember our A&R, Jeff Fenster. He was like, look, man, he's like, I'm going to keep it real. This is how it goes. He's like labels every year sign a few hundred bands. you know what I'm saying? He's like out of those like fucking multi-fucking hundreds of bands that we sign, maybe if we're lucky, one will fucking go gold.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like throw as much shit at the wall and see what sticks. You know what I'm saying? That's the ones that they start homing in on. You know what I'm saying? And I, you know, because when you're a kid, you think, oh, I signed to a label. That's it.

That's it. That's it. That's it. We signed. You know what I'm saying? Exactly. You know, not realizing, okay, that's just your, toe in the water. Now it's time to fucking learn how to swim. You know what I'm saying? So yeah, that like

blew my mind when I, and I was like, well, how could that be? And of course, just like everybody else, we learned the hard way, you know what I'm saying? Well, you learn the reality and you guys did the hard work. Yeah. You guys did. You guys worked really hard. You work really hard. Your band, your music, it's known. I mean, like, if you, if you go out on the street and you talk to people about ICP, they know what ICP is. Yeah. So, To me, that's not, it's not just one song or one record. It's all of them. But the culmination of it is this legacy that you have.

And I think that that's what people, they don't understand the sacrifice that you've had to make to get there. And I think artists understand. I think any, that's why I think at our age, we, we all respect all the different artists out there because we understand what it takes. Yeah. I think artists, our brains are wired definitely a little bit different, you know what I'm saying, than just, you know, I don't want to say normal people because we are normal people, but you know what I mean? Like just, you know, out of high school into the factory motherfuckers, you know what I'm saying? That, I hate to sound like this, but like, I don't want to say people with no ambitions, but different ambitions, I guess, than to like, then what artists are into, you know what I'm saying? Creating things for people who enjoy and whatnot, you know what I'm saying?

I think the brain is wired differently in that fashion. You know what I'm saying? Because it's like, I don't know, I never had no interest to do anything else. You know what I'm saying? It was like this or nothing. You know what I'm saying? There was no backup plan. I didn't want to be nothing else.

I didn't, nothing else. I felt the same way. You know what I'm saying? It was like, it's like it's like almost kind of like you know it's going to happen. You know what I'm saying? Because there was no other option. No option. You don't give no other option a chance.

There was no chance. It's this or nothing. You know what I was it? I had no backup plan. Right. We were all in. You have to be all in. Yeah.

And the crazy. part is, like we're saying, it's like, you know, and being young like that and being like in a local band and this and that, the big dream is to get signed to a label, you know, and take the ride, you know what I'm saying? And the crazy part is, it's like we got, I mean, we got signed to like a battery records, which was a sublabel of jive, you know what I'm saying? We were already bummed out from the get like, well, why not just jive? You know what I'm saying? And it was a small deal, you know what I'm saying? But the thing was, the way we came up, when we first started out in Detroit was,

we didn't just play gigs and hope somebody noticed us or like rappers, you know, cipher circles and hope you get noticed, sending demos and all this shit. From the jump, we started recording records and selling them ourselves. That's what we knew how to do because there's a couple examples in the city that people that were doing that,

and we're like, okay, we didn't know the other route of just like, we had no experience. Like, we weren't a band, so we didn't, like practicing, you know what I'm saying in the garage or no shit like that. So it's like we hit the studio and then we started selling records. We just did from the groundwork. We didn't go to parties or nothing like that, you know, as teenagers. We went to the clubs, but we were in the parking lot, flying them.

You know what I'm saying? We'd be at the fucking high school with flying them. Anywhere we just walk up the street, just every car, flyer, boom, every fucking light post, every store that would accept flyer, more than just record stores, whatever store that you saw a pile of flyers and put them in there. You know what I'm saying? Our flyer game was immaculate.

You know what I'm saying? And that's all we did because we were like, how do you push records? You know what I'm saying? We didn't have money for commercials. We didn't even know what the fuck a distributor was, you know what I'm saying?

So it's like, so that was our game doing that. And, you know, it's fucking crazy because we sold around 80,000 records just in Detroit before we even got signed to anything. You know what I'm saying? So at that point, we knew how to do,

what we were doing. We knew by that time, we knew what we were doing. We knew our music. We knew the direction we were going to take it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And when we got signed with Jive, and this was something that just happened constantly to us with different labels.

It's like they would sign us. They didn't know what the fuck to do with us. They're like, okay, these motherfuckers are selling 80,000 records. Let's get on that. You know what I'm saying? So they scoop us and they're like, so, okay, like hitting us with it still okay how do you work this what do we do with this you know what what I'm saying they didn't know to put us with rap they didn't know to put us with rock

you know what I'm saying so it took us we we weren't we didn't take our advance to go buy shit we took our advance and we bought promotional vans you know what I'm saying and we put it back into our band you know what I'm saying and then so when we saw jive wasn't promoting our record anywhere we're like all right we're taking our vans we're taking the rest of money buying samplers and we're fucking hitting the road on our own and we're, no shit, we fucking close their eyes and threw a dart at a fucking map.

Fucking Dallas. You know what I'm saying? Dart hit around Dallas. So we're like, all right, Dallas, that's our first shit. Went to Dallas. You know what I'm saying? Started fucking,

and people never even, like the stores had no clue who to fuck. Never heard of our record, nothing, you know, of, you know. And now I understand we were a new group on a fucking label. Of course they didn't. You know what I'm saying?

They weren't pushing us. takes time right we weren't we weren't we weren't a radio group they weren't pushing radio and nothing you know what I'm saying so we're like fuck that so by the time we left Dallas knew who the fuck we were you know what I'm saying and all of a sudden we notice stores were starting to carry our shit and whatnot you know what I'm saying so then um whatever we went through our shitty deal with jive you know didn't work out whatever the fuck you know what I'm saying so then uh we're looking for a way to get out we've been on god damn I don't even know how many fucking labels we've been on jive we've been on island Island Def Jam

Um Fuck What's the one that one on a fuck I don't even know you know You know say we've been on a lot of fucking labels like majors And um The thing is we've never been dropped We always find a loophole

Or a way to get out of our contracts Because it's always like okay So with Jive What happened was uh Hollywood records We know we had a Entertainment Lords whatever And I guess they had shot it to the right place So now this dude Julian Raymond

From Hollywood Records he was like, he was interested, he's like, okay, but the deal was we were still signed to Jive. So he was like, yo, we're owned by Disney. We got this money, you know what I'm saying? So they bought our contract out from Jive, you know what I'm saying? Because they saw the potential, at least Julian saw the potential, you know what I'm saying? And it was great, man. They treated us fucking awesome, you know what I'm saying?

The one thing that sucked, and the only time we did sell ourselves short was on Hollywood record, we turned the record in, right? And they send it back to us with a list of lyrics. we had to change. They're like, you can't say you shot this guy in the face or whatever fuck, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. But what we did, we were clever.

We just slanged it up. So the same thing just with slang. Right. So you never even know the fuck. Just the suit motherfuckers didn't know what we're saying at that point. You got creative. Exactly. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? So then record comes out, you know what I'm saying? Man, Hollywood treated us great. You know what I'm saying? It was awesome. You know what I'm saying? And then fucking had everything in place. We had the in-store releases, all this shit.

You know what I'm saying? So I think it was in like Toledo or something like that. Not far from Detroit, we go to do the in-store midnight release shit. So we sit down, we start doing shit in our rep. He's like, hey, man, I got to talk to you guys. You know what I'm saying? So he takes us into the back room at the record store, our manager and shit. He's like, yo, they just pulled your record.

We're like, what the fuck does that even mean? What I'm saying? They pulled their record. You know what I'm saying? So the day it came out, Disney was like, nope. And they, they're, like, recall all of it from everywhere. Because what had happened was... So did you get out of that deal for that?

Yes and no. It was weird, you know what I'm saying? So, like, what it happened was, like, all the Southern Baptist groups, you know what what I'm saying? I guess something was going on at Disney with, like, gay people or something. I mean, this was in the 90s, you know what I'm saying? Totally different gay world back then, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, it was a hard.

And so all kinds of ruckus was started because Disney was, like, hiring gay people or something. I don't know exactly what it was. But Disney, they were by... the boycott Disney, you know what I'm saying? And I guess they're a big group enough to make a dent in Disney. So they're like, oh shit, let's see what the fuck Disney owns. And when we first signed with Hollywood records, we were like, yo, Disney owns you. How to fuck, they're like, yes, but they have Disney records for that shit.

We're Hollywood records. They own us, but they also own Merrimack's films. You know what I'm saying? Which is Freddie, Jason, all them, you know what I'm saying? So we're like, bet. That sounds cool, you know what I'm saying? And that was always the thing. You know, they had the suicide machines, you know, the name alone.

You know what I'm saying, on Hollywood records, you know? And then so these Southern Baptises, you know, they're just like, yo, fuck all this shit. So Disney's like, oh, shit, oh, shit, what do we get rid of that is obvious? You know, like, oh, these fucking guys. Yeah. No, shit can't them. Get rid of them. You know what I'm saying?

Just like that, our fate was sealed with that shit, you know what I'm saying? Because of whatever the fuck else was going on, you know, they kept Freddie and Jason, though, which is crazy. Yeah. But, uh... So what happened to that record? So what happened was. they pulled it. You know what I'm saying? Our career was over. We're like, what the fuck just

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a month in Shopify.comus bar records. All right, fuck this. We just got in the car we're like, we're just headed the Virginia beat, I don't know, somewhere,

fucking Myrtle Beach, I don't know, we're just driving to the beach somewhere on the East Coast where it's warm and fucking regrouping and trying to figure out what the fucking just happened.

You know what I'm saying? So we're about like, I don't know, four or five, six hours out, you know what I'm saying? And, you know, we stopped this four cell phones. We stopped and called our manager. We're like, what's going on? He's like, fucking turn around. Get home right now.

We're like, what the fuck you're talking about? You know what I'm saying? He's like, yo, shit's crazy around here. Alternative press got a whole of the story. You know what I'm saying? And fucking a Bidmore is about to be going down for you guys. We're like, what the fuck? You know what I'm saying?

So all of a sudden now we're flying to fucking L.A. to New York, L.A. to New York, meeting up, Lee R. Corrin, Jimmy Iveen. You know what I'm saying? All these motherfuckers. You know what I'm saying? Like the top motherfuckers at all the labels and shit. You know what I'm saying? Talking this, talking that.

So we eventually went with Island. What had happened was Island still had to buy us off of Hollywood. They weren't just letting us go. They already invested too much fucking money. You know what I'm saying? And on top of that with a non-disclosure fucking shit, you know, so we were, so we weren't even allowed to say what the fuck have. I think it still stands, but we don't get a fuck.

We don't care. It really got to do it, you know what I'm saying? It doesn't matter. Exactly. I don't even know if Hollywood exists anymore. No, the record label, don't. But Disney does, you know, but I mean, come on, they fucking Marvel and Star Wars. Who the fuck are we to Disney?

What I'm saying? Yeah. But they wanted to fuck with a so bad island. This is what sold us on going to island. We didn't even have an A&R. The president was our A&R. You know what I'm saying? So there was no middleman, no nothing.

His name was Humine. Fucking straight to the man. No report. No, nothing between. Us, him, boom, let's do this record, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So they re-released it, you know what I'm saying? We're like, yo, we want to do this movie, big money hustlers.

Like a fucking knockoff on the cheap hood movies that, you know, mass, P and them used to come out with back in the day. I love us. I love with them. We were like, okay, we're going to do a spoof of one, funded all that and this, you know what I'm saying? She was actually going good with them, you know what I'm saying? They still didn't know how to market us, so it took us stepping in.

We never stopped Martin working ourselves, you know what I'm saying? And we never left it to any record label to work us because they didn't know how to, like I said. And we're still struggling at that time because they didn't know, once again, how do you label this? Where do you put it? Because it wasn't cut and dry rap. It wasn't rock at that, you know what I'm saying? So it was just like, what the fuck do we do with this? You know what I'm saying?

In the meanwhile, this juggalo world's building. And we didn't even, we weren't intentionally doing that. We didn't know, we didn't come up with the word juggalo. None of that shit. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's at all fucking. I can't tell you. We can speculate where it came from,

but we never said the word juggalo before juggalo's were calling themselves juggalo's, and we never were like, yo, you're now juggalo's. Never that. You know what I'm saying? Man fuckers adapted and started doing that. At this stage, you guys own the word juggalo. Yeah, by that point, yes.

When you hear the word juggalo, you know exactly what that means. And then Island merged with Def Jam. Right. And then shit just changed. You know what I'm saying? at the whole humah was no longer there we didn't even i don't even know if we even had an a nr we had no representation there we went up there at one point we went up there to figure out what the fuck was going on right we go up the elevators and shit manhatt and all that shit you know

when you walk in the labels all the cubicles and all that so we're walking through the cubicles motherfuckers fuck as it was a fucking Halloween around here what fuck is this up here my fucker we're on your label you're on your mother fucking label what do you mean it's a Halloween, who the fuck is this up in here? And we're like, we're doing, man. That's it. The fucking Island owns that record, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, fuck, man.

What do we do? So we just kept doing what we did. We stayed on the road. You know what I'm saying? Kept fucking beating the pavement touring. Kept promoting everything ourselves because Allen was doing nothing at that point. You know, they didn't even know we were on their label. Straight the fuck up.

To the point where they didn't, they forgot to renew our contract. Right. How to fuck, they forgot to renew our fucking contract. It was right there. We were counting the fucking days down. Like, oh, shit, we're about to be off. They're going to hit us up anytime now. Anytime they didn't.

We were free. It was the fucking greatest shit ever. You know what I'm saying? And then we ended up going with, I think it was E3 or some shit like that. You know what I'm saying? Smaller label and shit just for like, you know, because they were distributed through Sony and shit. Like then eventually we just did like, oh, deal with Sony.

Sony Red knowledge is for distribution. but it's crazy because like I was saying it's like we've never been dropped but we've never been actually we never had the machine working behind us of a major label ever even though we've been on the majors they've never put the fucking coal in behind us you know what I'm saying right it's always been on us so and I think that 100% now looking at it you know of course we didn't like it back then we're like yo where the fuck is the help where's this and that we're on a major what the fuck we're supposed to be all over this and that you know what I'm saying but because of the grind we had to put in, you know, because if we wouldn't have, we'd have been dead in the water.

You know, if we were just like, oh, fuck, okay, they're not doing nothing. What do we do? You know, but because we did everything ourselves at first in Detroit, we knew what we had to do. You know, it's time to grab the reins and keep the shit going, you know? And, you know, and we never stopped that. And that's how we still do it to this day, you know what I'm saying? So the only time that we'll stop is if we unplug ourselves now. Well, that's, well, so, so that's the other thing, right, is what you could have done is quit? Oh, yeah, no doubt. But then what? Then what? Then what?

But something, I have two thoughts. One is for people listening, right? Because everybody listening has their own life. And they're trying to go forward in life and succeed, right? Yeah, no doubt. I think it's human nature. Like most of us, like we don't want to fail. We want to succeed.

We want to go forward, aim upwards, try to make something out of ourselves. Of course. And so for people listening, I think sometimes when you listen to artists who have had success because to an outsider they don't know that story right right they they see you guys and they go that must be nice and mind you started to cut you off but the whole time we're going through that motherfuckers didn't just dislike us motherfuckers hated us you guys I was there hated us man yeah I was there as a as a spectator dealing with the hate well that you know what you're dealing with that you know we did we embraced the hate we're like fuck it hate us you know what I'm saying

let's go. Fuck it. Now we're the most hated motherfuckers, but what are you gonna do? So now what can you do to us? Right. You already hate us. We're not allowed to be at your shit.

We're already outsiders. You know what I was just telling this story. Out of the blue. Blew our fucking wigs off our head. You know what I'm saying? Billboard awards. Like, you guys come to the show. We're like, wait, what?

Us? You know what I'm saying? Because we weren't allowed on nothing. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Even if we asked, they'd be like, get the fuck out of her face.

You know what I'm saying? And we were like, like, yes, all right, let's go. The whole red carpet gimmick, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I think we were behind the back, backstreet boys in that line. Yeah. Getting out the cars.

So, I mean, you've been on this situation. You know what it is. Like the photographers are, but before you hit the media shit, that's where they got the stands at for fans. You know what I'm saying? So you walk through there, they're cheering for their favorite people, whatever.

Yeah, yeah. That's the part that you don't see unless you're in it. You know what I'm saying? So like whatever I care Whoever the fuck gets out the limo in front of us We see you know through the limo glass You know everybody's like

Ah going ape shit You know what I'm saying So we're like all right our turn We get out Boom Fucking it's all like a rival team Was in town You know what I'm saying

And we're like you know what Fuck yeah You know what I'm saying It's like what else do in that situation But I think that you guys Embrace the controversial elements Around that it tended to be that the that the entertainment world like to turn ICP into a more controversial thing.

But what you guys did really successfully was embraced it. If we wouldn't know, it wouldn't have worked. But to me, that's the mark of why you have so many fans. Yeah. Because most people, I think, and I certainly did growing up, feel like outsiders. We don't, most of us don't feel like we're in the in the cool group. Most of us feel like we're outside. Most of us feel like we're not invited as well.

Right, yeah. And even when I was invited, I felt like I wasn't invited. Right, yeah. Right. So that was my experience with success the first time around was because of my self-esteem and my growing up in a tough environment and with adversity and things just didn't seem to ever go the right way. Yeah.

So it felt like, I always felt like I was down on my luck. The thing that I think I had to learn. learn to be careful of was that might have been the truth for the first 18 years. And then when I got out into the world, when I got to leave home, it wasn't actually the truth. My luck started to change because I started to do things towards success. And whether it was driven by a passion for making the music or my dream of making it, I was aiming upwards. And I was trying. And I didn't realize that I live in a world where there's a cause and effect. If we put forth effort, something comes back. Right, right. Something leads to something. But what I struggled with through my 20s and through

the first kind of the 10 years of success we had before we, it was like 10 or 11 years of nonstop. Yeah. And then we stopped because, and we took a look around. And that was when I started to work on myself. And I realized like, I'm not down on my luck. I'm up. I'm up. I'm way up now. My formative years gave me a perception or a bias of the world that it's just a hard place and nothing goes right. What real creative, successful people do is adapt to the environment or the situation and make the most of it and find their way out of it and then they find a way. It's like we do what we have with what we, we do what we can with what we have. You guys, no one told you how to have a career, right? You guys had to figure it out. And that shit is hard. Most people don't have the

stomach for that kind of confusion. Yeah. And then you get into the world and it's not exactly the kind of party you thought it would be. Right. When you're making art in the studio in the basement in the bedroom, you're making, you're actually making something good. You're trying to make something that other people will like. That's a good. Yeah. That's actually the concept of that is good. Right. Yeah. Right. And you did it and then you go into the world and then the powers that be, the people in charge, the media, the labels, the this, to that, they decide to put you guys in a place

and make you a scapegoat for something, a controversy for something, because the truth of the matter is, is we need that in entertainment. We need a bad guy. Yeah. And you guys... What did you ever feel that fucking slot, man?

Right. And you guys embraced it and branded it and gave people a place to go when they felt like they're that guy. So all the people, that's what I, one of the things that I feel like strikes me the most about the gathering and your, the people that I think, uh, they not only love your, your music, uh, but they love the, I think there's something about people having a place to go when they feel like they're that guy. Because there's more of us than less of us that feel that way.

We, we compare it to like a family reunion from all fuckers, you know what I'm saying? And a lot of those people don't have another place to go. True. Yeah. And that's what's important. That, that's the thing that's that you can't put a price on it and you don't know what it means like you know it's dope man most people don't get that and they don't they don't get it but you get it i get it you understand you know what i i get it the way you're you're explaining it i feel like that's the way i would explain it but people when you explain that to people it just doesn't click in their head they don't understand that you know what i'm saying and it's like i don't know to me it's so cut and dry because it makes sense to me maybe because it's our fucking story you know what i'm saying but you live it so

it's not going to When I say it, you understand it. And I felt this when I sat with Jay. Like, I actually don't think you guys are completely aware of the value and importance of that. I know you know it. But I think that there is some things that you will only be able to tell with time. Oh, yeah. I agree with that.

And that's the thing that's striking to me. And then I also think for people listening that are trying to be. trying to do something. The story you just told about the labels, there's this like parable. I won't, I won't get into the parable, but there's this like, is it good luck? Is it bad luck? Right. And in a time, we may think this horrible thing happening to us. That's our story. Because at the time, we're like, yo, like, we always call it like the fucking like career killers. We had so many career killers, but somehow they always turned around to be our benefit in the long run. Well, because you didn't stop. Right, exactly. Because most people stop. Yes. They quit.

This is what I tell motherfuckers too. Because, you know, like meat and grease, all that shit. You know what I'm saying? People will be like, yo, please, what is, what's the best advice you can give on success or like, you know, doing something and making it successful? And I'm like, it sounds a lot simpler than it is. Don't give up. You know what I'm saying? People that have made it are the ones that never gave up.

That's it. You know what I'm saying? The second you give up is the second you don't make it. I mean, saying it's simple. You know what I'm saying? Simple in concept. Exactly. But then doing it is a life style.

The work is something else, but that's part of the process. But the second you give up and you don't do it, it's not going to move forward no more. Right. Because it's this long winding road. And that's the thing that I tell other creatives and other entrepreneurs and other people that are trying to achieve, especially when someone talks to me in their 25. 25 feels, you know, you're in your 20s. You feel older.

Yeah. But I'm 45. Right. That's like a kid now. That's a kid. Right. I'm about to be 50. I'm like, God damn, man.

You look like a teenager. Yeah. I tell them like, look, do it for 20 years. Right. And one is you have to love what you're doing in order to do that. For sure. You got to want it for, you know, money is a metric we use to measure some things. But it can't be for the money.

Exactly. And you ask anybody that's in a successful. I don't know about businessmen and shit like that who just aren't it for the money. You know what I'm saying? But like when you start, like anything art-wise, you know what I'm saying? If you jump into it to get money, you're going to quit so quick because there is no money in it until, you know, say you take it somewhere. At the beginning, nobody gets painters, fucking poets, fucking musicians.

Nobody that fucks with any kind of art makes money from it at first. You know what I'm saying? If anything, you've got to sink mad money. into that shit. A lot of times it still don't go nowhere. It's constant sacrifice. And then if you amortize the money over the years, you spent not making money. Right? So you spend all these years building. And then it's this curve that happens where then you get paid up here. So it's 10 years or work. And then these last two, you get all this money. Right. But if you average that out over 10 years, still not that much money. Exactly. Right. So what you guys are an example of is,

One, adapting to the situation and embracing the reality of what life was then. Okay, you're going to call us the bad guys? We're going to fucking entertain the shit out of you then, right? On the other side of that, it must be an interesting experience for what I know was a controversial roller coaster ride of a career in the early stages of it. Now I can say from my experience as a spectator, everybody embraces you. It's all love everywhere you go. This is the payoff.

Right. You know what I'm saying? Because like we never saw that coming. Right. Never. You know what I'm saying? So like what like I mean, and this is more recent than anything. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. As far at least in our face, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And you know, I got different ideas of what happened. You know what I'm saying? But I think the number one thing is the fact that we never stopped. You know what I'm saying? It's just not only did we keep going consistently,

but we just kept going at the same rate. You know what I'm saying? It's like we never stopped going on the road. You know what I'm saying? And it's funny because like you'll bump into people like, you know, it's always older people. You're still doing that ICP thing? Get the fuck out of here.

Yeah, of course. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You still doing music. I'm not going. Exactly. But it's like a two-fold thing because not only is it, you know,

just people that buy music, just the public at large, you know what I'm saying, now accepts us. Not fully, I mean, it's not going to come to a show. They might go to a festival and see us, but they're not going to,

I mean, they're scared to come to show still because they think juggalo's will fuck them up. Yeah, which is not true at all, by the way, you know what I'm saying? But they got a stuck in their head.

Yeah. But, and the industry as well, you know what I'm saying? So it's like the fucking, it's like the consumers and the industry, both are now, like, embracing,

you know what I'm saying? Which is fucking alien and a shit to us, you know what I'm saying? But I think motherfuckers that were, like, running shit in the industry in like the 90s and earlier 2000s and shit like that, they're retired, dead, you know what I'm saying? So the people that were young back then and I were running this shit who are like, okay, they were dope, you know what I'm saying? I liked them back then, you know, or whatever the fuck we may have done, you know,

so now they're the people running shit, okay, let's give them an interview, okay, let's put them on this, okay, let's do that, you know what I'm saying? They're still around, so let's go, you know what I'm saying? And, you know, it's weird. It feels great, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know what would have happened if it would have started from the beginning. We would have been totally different motherfuckers, you know what I'm saying? But I think that also, as far as, I can only speak for me, but it humbled the fuck out of me.

You know what I'm saying? And it's like just going places now, like, just doing podcasts like this and speaking to people like you that actually see it for what it is, not just dismissing it's garbage and fucking shit like that. Like, I'm not saying you personally have done that. But I'm saying, like, most people have. have done to us in our career, you know what I'm saying? Not even, not even listening to it.

Oh, I know it's trash, it's ICB, you know what I'm saying? It's like, what the fuck you're talking about? You know what I'm saying? But now that that's not a thing no more, you know what I'm saying? We're not the joke no more that we used to always be. We were always the butt of jokes, our whole career, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, but at least it's not an ICP, you know? Right.

You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, it happens so much, it doesn't even fade us no more, you know what I'm saying? So like, so the fact that it's, that it's turning over now. You know what I'm saying? It's weird.

We're so used to getting hated that the love now, it's sometimes it's hard to accept because you think you're getting set up or something almost, you know, for like, for something. But, but you know what I'm saying?

Hey, I'll take it because I, it's fucking. Well, it's dessert. It's, it's because especially nowadays at the age of Matt, like my mental health is number one over everything.

You know what I'm saying? Because everything falls in the place once that's fucking correct. Yes. And that helps that like a motherfucker. Yes. you know what I'm saying so it's like you know I think that look if I had a book called how to be yourself I would give ICP a chapter you know what I mean because I do think that the through line for me the thing I pull out of it because I'm a overly at this age anyways I wasn't

always this way but I think it's just a need to make sense of of life in the world and a need to feel like I understand people and then I also want to take something to something away from your success and go like, what did that guy do? I want to learn how to do that, right? Because I think that the point of life is learning how to be yourself. You don't get to be anyone else. You only get one chance to learn how to be you. And what I don't want to do is spend my life chasing an idea, someone else's idea of what I should be. Right. And you know what? And this is not easy to achieve. But once you learn, and I'm sure you've already learned this, You know what I'm saying? Once you learn the skill of truly, truly not giving a fuck

what people think about you. Right. Like whether it's a blemish on your face, oh no, let me cover it. Or you know what I'm saying? You got a fucking coffee stain on your pants. Whatever to fuck, small things or big things. Yeah. Once you truly don't give a fuck.

You know what I'm saying? Yo, it's the biggest fucking weight off your shoulders, man. You get to set that bag down. Right. You know what I'm saying? I think you guys are coming into an RN. Actually, I think you're in it. Whatever it is these last couple of years, I've noticed it.

But then I also talking to you both, I feel like you're there in your lives. And I think you're there mentally, spiritually. I feel like you guys are in the most interesting and likely the most important chapter of your career. I would agree with you. 100% and I agree with you. And I don't even know what that means. I just feel it. And I think you'll discover it.

Yeah, no, I agree with you because, like, I don't know, there's just so much shit on the horizon that not only seems so good, but just from the experience and the fucking, I hate using the word maturity, but the maturity and shit that we both have now, you know what I'm saying? It's just handled from a whole different perspective and way to do it, like, more smart, more experience, you know what I'm saying? and you know we we both do a lot other more shit than just iCP now but we're we both know that when we come together as icp that's when the real shit happens yeah you know what's it's like this is cool doing this and i love doing this you know what i'm saying my heart's in it i love it you know shit like that but we know what the fuck this is in the middle there's some magic in it yeah there's some real magic in it and that's that's just all that time all those years all those hours on the court together yeah you don't have to talk exactly

just so there's some magic in it but i think you're right i think there's this awareness and experience that's going to allow you to understand exactly what to do with each thing that comes yeah um but i really feel it i feel like you guys are entering the most interesting chapter of your career and i think it's because of however many years 20 30 years of work and uh effort and adversity and all the things. So again, I always pull out for people listening, trying to figure their shit out, the bigger ideas of why you're sitting here. Yeah. And you know what? This, this phase of our life and career, it's like we're entering this without the fucking hate. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. That's the big difference. You know what I'm saying? And I think it's going to show,

you know what I'm saying? And as long as you've been here, me too. And not the hate in our hearts. I'm saying the hate towards us, you know what I'm saying? It's all love. I'm telling you. But as long as you've been here doing what you do and me too to still be working is one thing I feel grateful but there's plenty of guys who aren't here anymore it's true they either died or it was too much because it's hard and I get it I understand I'm I never see someone go out of this year is we're 100% easier than doing it and some people had to give up they couldn't take it they would likely be dead if they didn't give it yeah and so I respect that um but The reason you're sitting here and the reason you can show up somewhere and everybody wants you to be there is all of those years of doing it.

Yeah. And you can't buy that. You have to live it and earn it. And I just think it's really, really cool and it's really inspiring because most people want to look at the future and feel hopeful about what's possible. And they want to believe that they'll still be here in 20 years. And you know what I love about all this shit is of the fucking treacherous mountain that we've fucking cut through, the path through, getting up to that bitch, you know what I'm saying? Still not to the summit, you know what I'm saying? But like just fucking cutting through the fucking jungle up on the side of that fucking mountain, the path that we left, you know what I'm saying?

Making it easier for the next man in our situation, you know what I'm saying? Well, they're still climbing that mountain, but at least they don't need their fucking machete now. They still need your mountain climbing boots. Yeah. But you know, but the path is fucking a lot more clear than it was before we came through it. You know what I'm saying? And that, that's a good feeling knowing that. You know what I'm saying?

There's only one ICP. There only will ever be. You know what I mean? There's only, yeah. That to me is the standout is there's only one. Yeah. It's true. It's pretty incredible.

It's an incredible feeling. You know what I'm saying? And thank you. You know what I'm saying for saying that. It's the truth. It's hard for me taking. compliments. I know, me too. Me too, but someone has to say it. Well, thank you, man. In my heart, thank you, don't. Yeah, I appreciate that. If we don't say it, we all know it. Yeah.

And it's important to say because it's all the money, all the stuff, the accomplishment is that you guys built this thing that is unique. Yeah. I mean, it's what gets put in the fucking book in the end. That's what matters. It's what gets put in the fucking history book. The record sale, You guys have done a lot. There's record sales, there's money. There's a bunch of stuff that's all great. But the real true accomplishment is, to me, two guys that started when they were kids are still together. So what does that tell the rest of us?

That it's possible. Yeah. It's possible to have a relationship. Yeah. It's possible to have a friend for your life. And it's possible to work through all the adversity of friendship and relationships. And then to do something unique on your own at the darkest. times when no one believes at the height when when when you have those moments of success all of that

passes on the other side of it is what did we do what's our legacy right um and it's the things we can't touch but i think that when when i look at you guys i feel a lot of happiness because it it's telling someone back there that it's worth it and that if you have an idea that no one else understands, you can still go forward and build that thing. I think you guys are the example of in music. It's like, I'm not judging anyone or I'm not talking shit about anyone, but to find something unique is hard. Yeah, it is.

Yeah. I appreciate you coming. Man, let me tell you something, though, what you did just now, you just fucking, you just put me in the best move for the rest of the night. I'm going to be like, oh, shit, man. I mean, I'm always in a pretty good mood, you know what I'm saying? But now I'm about to be smiling all night and shit. Definitely.

Thanks for coming on. Hey, man. Thank you. Thank you, man. Great to be. Awesome, man. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of artist friendly.

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