Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Slayyyter

Episode Date: April 8, 2026

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Slayyyter. After years of building a fanbase from scratch, Slayyyter’s new album, WOR$T GIRL IN AMERICA, feels like her breakout. The record lives in the same vein as Lady Gaga, Metro Station, and Marina and the Diamonds, reflecting a desire to be “nostalgic but also take it to a place that reminded me of the punk music my skater friends would show me when I was in St. Louis or seeing a Lana Del Rey GIF for the first time on Tumblr.” Before its release, the pop artist stopped by the Artist Friendly studio. Sitting across from Madden, she dives into growing up in St. Louis, staying DIY on a major label, and what it took to finally feel confident in her art. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Director/Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman ------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I think my biggest thing I wish for people is that even though this is my first album that I did signed to like a major. Which label are you on? Columbia and Records. Okay. Yeah. So it's been kind of the. Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you. It's been really cool. I feel like I've had more like I've been able to do more with like my visuals and all these different things. But even with that, like I still have taken a very DIY approach to this album. It was always just like me and producer. I didn't really have any songwriters on anything.

I was very, I directed all the music videos. I like. Oh, wow. I don't have bad times. I don't want to have bad. Everyone that I know that I told I was talking to you was really excited. Really? Yeah.

Oh my God. That makes me so happy. I always have like people around like cool young people. Wow. That I check. Yeah. What's the vibe? Wow.

I obviously know your music but wasn't deep in the world. Yeah. You have a lot of love out there. Thank you. How does that feel? It feels really good. I'm like, wonder, is it like gay, gay guys that you're a lot of people who said she's a gay icon. Yeah. Thank you. That was a reoccurring theme with you. Oh my gosh. A couple of people said total gay icon. Wow. Total gay icon. How does that feel? That feels good. I love that. I love that, I feel like that all the music I listened to was very much like the pop female champion by gay community type of stuff. That's a good way of putting it. Yeah. Champion by the champion. Like I loved Lady Gaga and I loved even like more alternative. alternative pop like Marine and the Diamonds and all of that. That was like all my Tumblr, Lana, you know, all of that.

Yeah. Yeah. You're a tumbler. Oh, I was a huge Tumblr girl. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had purple hair. I was like really weird. I wasn't like good at it, but I like loved it, you know. When did you start doing music? I think I started like officially putting out my own songs in like 2017 or 2018 maybe. I've always been kind of like musical or like I like would try to make bedroom music for like a long time before that but I didn't really put out like my first single as Slater until I think like 20 2017. Okay. Yeah.

That's long enough. Yeah, it's been a long time. Yeah, I've been doing this. I think for like. You're creeping up on a decade. Yeah. Oh my God. A decade of your life.

Yeah. Your young life. Yeah, which is crazy. I feel like I, every time I'm always like, I've been doing this for like four years and then I look into it. I'm like, oh, it's been way longer than that. Oh, it's almost 10. Yeah.

It's crazy. next year will be 10 years. Damn. Oh my God. That's really good. Yeah, that is crazy. It's hard to do. It is.

I am grateful for the kind of, you know, I feel like I'm not like the biggest artist, but like I've had kind of like a steady like cult following build for a couple of years. So I've been able to kind of sustain just like only doing music, which is fine big. Like you know, like I wouldn't, I don't have like a like a like billboard song or like I haven't had like a proper like mainstream breakthrough moment. But like I don't really like know if I want that. I feel like a lot of people. gauge success with that kind of like, you know, that goal post always like, you know, shifts around. But I feel like that's a really dumb way of gauging.

Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, I totally agree. I feel like. I don't mean dumb like I'm insulting people. I mean basic. Yeah. It's like if you aren't in this thing living the life of an artist and you were just like a basic person who isn't living in this, like living that life, the charts would be a very basic.

indicator of that being said we also celebrate when we do get it uh for sure it's an accomplishment so i when i say dumb i don't i i feel like i have to backtrack and take a take out dumb and go i don't know what i meant to say but i think people remember us in a different way than it actually was yeah because we weren't like a big chart band like our records maybe charted on their first week at the time, but like we didn't have, I don't think we ever had a number one song. Really? No. That's like, I don't know.

I feel like I remember that. That's what people, I always hear it all the time. Like, well, you know how that is. It was actually culturally, like, it was such a culturally, like you guys were like culturally massive. I think that's probably what translates to, well, they were huge. But what I got back about you was like this really positive, joyful. like culturally relevant answer. I'm more interested in that. Why? Why do you like her so much?

And then like Jacob in there who I work with who's so sweet. His husband and him love you. Oh my gosh. So he was like really tickled he got to meet you. He was like very happy. Oh my gosh. So that's what I look for across in my like world. It's like what artists do people go, you know what I mean? Like it's cool to see that because that to me is like music. Yeah. Versus like, oh my God, did you hear they had a number one last week? And no one says that. I don't know.

I'm just saying. I, no, I fully agree. I feel like kind of in the era of streaming too. There's a lot of like nameless and faceless huge hit songs where it's like I've definitely heard the song. Couldn't tell you who sings it though. It's kind of just like this background like algorithmic thing. So I feel like when things, when artists do kind of cut through and it's more about the

whole world or like their personality or more about like their visual. tied in with the music and not just like this one singular thing. I always like that when I'm like listening to music or like finding new artists, but I feel like people have. Well, no one wants to say it. Yeah. Because the truth is, and I'm just saying it, I'm not, I don't care. AI is writing half of the songwriter session songs.

These songwriters, name one, I'm not hating on them. They're doing a job. It's a job. They're going. Now, there are some songwriters who are artists. Yeah, for sure. And I know there's like a whole kind, there's like a style of different styles. And then there's guys who just want cuts.

They're just getting cuts. They're like, got another cut, got another cut, got another cut. And that's another style too. By the way, there's a place for that. But they're using AI to write melodies to give them tracks to give them starts. And then they're taking it and they're like fixing it up. And then they're walking into a session with an artist. who needs a song and maybe they're not as strong at writing and they're like selling this as their

idea. Yeah, Black Mirror episode. But it's not, it's, it's, it's really happening. Yeah. It's real. It is real. And I'm not saying, I don't know if it's right or wrong. They're getting the cuts. Yeah. And so what has diminished pop music is a little bit of that algorithmic and AI and all that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. It doesn't mean it should exist. I don't know what it should. I know that if there's something that makes things easier and you get there faster and you learn how to use it with some smarts, you can really succeed with it. Yeah. And it doesn't matter how they got there because they got there. Yeah. At the same time, though, I do think that there's something obsolesal us about it, which is probably what you're kind of talking about us. Like, there is something

about it that like, I do think that you should have to say you used AI to. Yeah, like a. Yeah, like a disclaimer. A disclaimer. Like some part of this was you, AI was used in some part of the making of this. Yeah. So that we know nutritionally like what's in our music. Yeah.

Even just videos on the internet. Sometimes I get fooled and I feel like crazy. I'm like, I'll be like this video and then people will be like that's AI and I'm like, is it really? And then I'm like, fuck. Like I didn't know.

And then I feel like I'm like, I don't even know. It's getting really. I feel like with music though, I don't know why I can always kind of clock like AI-ish. Yeah. I can tell. and the vocals sound kind of off.

The lyrics are always kind of weird. I'm not hating on it. I just want to know. Yeah. So I can look. So, because I think we would look at it differently. Yeah.

If we knew. If there's like required, yeah, I feel you. There should be. There should be a disclaimer. Definitely. Like your food.

Yeah. Because you're putting it in your mind. Yeah. It's nutrition for your soul. There's like full on artists that are just AI. Yes. And like, I feel like people and labels are like really behind them.

And they're like all excited about it. And it's like, Oh my gosh, that's so weird. It's free money. Yeah. Free money. Yeah, that's true. You want some free money?

That is so true. I never even thought of it. Just do it. Also, it exists and like it's not going away. It's only going to be more. So with AI, I don't have a position. It exists. So I acknowledge that it exists and people use it.

But I don't know that it's wrong. I don't think it's wrong. I mean, I like robots for sure. Like really, I hate robots. They scare me. That was my wife. Really? He hates them.

Oh my gosh. We're in this big standoff right now. But I want to get a robot. Like a real robot? A real robot. Oh my gosh. To do housework. What happens when you like wake up and it's standing over you in your sleep and it's like trying to take you out?

I don't think it would do that. That's where my head goes. I immediately think of like those like I robot and like the movies where they like turn on the humans. Yeah. That's why whenever those like roving like Uber Eats carts like come down the street, I love those. I always am like very like respectful. When people talk shit to those, I'm like don't talk shit to those because they'll flip and they'll come after your ass. You know?

Like crows. Yeah. You know, crows have a very good memory and they remember who have done them wrong. What? And they tell the rest of the crows. They're vengeful? Yes. As, as they would be.

That's like that checks out for that kind of bird. Yeah. You know. That's why they say don't like shoe them off away. Don't try to hit them with your car or like when they're in the road. Don't speed up. Yeah. This was a great start to the conversation.

Yeah. I agree. robots. Slater. Yeah. How did you get your name? Is that just like your first name, your last name? No, my name's Catherine Grace.

But I... That's a really like... Thank you. Like, well, I don't know what you're going to say, but... It's a regal name. Thank you. Yeah, my mom, I don't know. She really, like, wanted like, the old lady queen names for me and my sister.

What did they call you growing up? So, Anna Mena. And like my music, my cabello can be with me and has to be able. of my rhythm. For so, potion 9 of Sebastian Professional has everything my needs. Nutrition Profunda.

Protection against the encrespaid. 99% less of rotura and punas abirtas under control. New potion 9 of Sebastian Professional, the secret professional of who don't seen't

tendences, but of who those create. Grace. Grace. Yeah. I always went by my middle name. My mom,

very much like I am. She's so weird. She was like, I wanted you to be called Grace, but Grace Catherine sounded very strange. So it had to, it had to be Catherine Grace because I wanted Catherine in there. So it's like, it was a whole thing in school.

Like I'd always be like, you know, St. Louis, Missouri. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. St. Louis, Missouri. And then, yeah, my artist's name comes from. Have you ever seen Danecy Confused?

The Lady Catherine Grace of St. Louis, Missouri. Yeah. That sounds so much more like. It's very, real and classy when you say it like that. It's very Victorian. Yeah, and it kind of is, yeah. Yeah, era, 1912. Timeless, a timeless name.

18, late 1800s, early 1900s. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Thank you. Yeah. So they called you Grace. Yeah, I always went by Grace growing up.

And then, yeah, like around high school, I started to kind of like, like, when I got like my tumbler, like I started making music a little bit towards the end of high school. I love the movie, Days to Confused. And that like stoner character Slater, who's like, catch you later, man. I thought he was so cute and I wanted, I just loved that word like Slater. And it was like S-L-A-T-R at first. And then I added W-S-A-R at first and then I added W-S-E-R-H-A-R-H-R-H-R-A-R-R-T-R-R-T-R-R-R-T-R-R-E-A-R-R-W-R-E-R-R-E-R-R-E-R-E-K-E-K-K-E-K-T-E-E-K-E-K-E-T-E-E. That's cool.

Yeah, Slater is a cool name. But your real name is very cool. My daughter goes by her middle name. Oh, really? Kate. Oh, nice. My best friend's name is Kate. It's funny.

Yeah, it's good. It's good. And technically your name's Kate. Oh, yeah. Catherine. Yeah. But you go by Grace. Yeah.

Does your family still call you in Grace? It's like a joke. Oh, it's funny. Yeah, which I feel like that. I feel like I need to like reserve that for like my like later in life. Yeah. Kathy. You know.

Later on. Later on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Grace is cool though. And Slater is very cool with three wise. Thank you.

Yeah. Is there anything coming up that's important to you? Yeah. Yeah. I have an album coming out. in like two weeks called Worst Girl in America. So that's kind of like... How did you get there with that name?

So growing up, I think... I grew up in St. Louis. I feel like in my high school years, I hung out with like a lot of skater boys, which by the way, they all like freak out that I was on this podcast, I'm sure. Big fans of yours, obviously. But I grew up around all these skater boys

and they had this like weird terminology thing where they would be like, if like they'd just be like, oh, most worst dude or like worst girl or like, most turn dude. Like they would always say like things like that. And I was naming my album.

I just was thinking about like myself and what the songs are kind of about and feeling insecure in music and how that's kind of can be a term of endearment from friends or it can be kind of like a self-deprecation thing, like self-deprecating kind of term that you put on yourself. And yeah, it just felt like the right. Do you feel insecure in music sometimes? Oh, all the time. Really?

Yeah. I feel like my upbringing and, And you know, like, what was your upbringing? I grew up in St. Louis in the suburbs and my family didn't have a lot of money, but my dad was kind of like a Frank Gallagher kind of like drunk, like drug kind of guy. I don't really talk to him anymore, but my parents are divorced now. But I feel like growing up, I went to Catholic school. Me and my sister went to Catholic school for free. So everyone in our grade was like pretty like wealthy, but we weren't.

So it was almost kind of like gossip girl like Jenny and Dan Humphrey situation. And yeah, I always just kind of felt like insecure about like that. Like I've always just kind of felt a little out of place like in my surroundings. And I think in music like I got like I was like a hair salon receptionist. And I got like plucked out of St. Louis like right into this kind of job and lifestyle. And so, you know, like my first couple like how did you get plucked out? I just put my music on SoundCloud and it started to kind of, you know. Okay.

So you're a self-starter though. Okay, wait. You just said a lot of things that I want to touch on. First was you got. plucked out. Yeah. So you started putting music on your sound cloud on your own. Yeah. Yeah. And then someone heard it and they like, kind of on Twitter. People started to the gays actually, gay stand Twitter. They found it on Twitter. And my first song was this song called BFF with my collaborator Aisha Erotica. And she was like a really sick rapper and producer and pop artist. And we

collabed on a couple songs. And yeah, I think Stan Twitter just like ran with it. And like it started circulate. I'd be like working my hair salon receptionist job, like checking SoundCloud and like the plays would go up and then like Fader wrote about my song and I'd be like, oh my God, like what's going on? Yeah, that's exciting. This is so crazy. And my manager, who's still my manager now, he reached out to me and we have been working together ever since. But I feel like it felt like things kind of blew up really fast. And I quit my job and went from being like a St. Louis, like townie, like bar trash, to then doing like this as a career. And it's just like, I don't know. There's like no pre for it. So I feel like I feel like I've always been kind of like the girl who's too drunk at the

party or like just like I feel like I've always been like the odd. I feel like an odd ball sometimes. Yeah. Were you too drunk at the party? Many times. Many times. I don't sit at like I had no business doing that. Sitting with you talking right now. You do not come across to be like someone who would get inebriated past a level with which they chose. That is excellent. news that you that is that's how i that's how i perceive you sitting here with you thank you maybe i don't give that impression as much now like i'm 29 now i feel like i've learned a lot i've definitely slowed down like we all have our like party phases but i i really don't like going out that much anymore i feel kind of like a recluse almost like i i prefer like watching movies and like

like working on stuff in my apartment or like sewing like clothes and like just doing little hobby things I don't really like to, I don't like going out too much. I always feel like I'm like the most uncool person at the party anytime I like, I just feel like taking up. I just feel awkward. I don't know. I don't like it. I can relate to that.

Yeah. So I think that's why I drink to overcompensate for that. Yeah. But like the very few times I've been invited to any kind of like celebrityish or like any kind of like ritzyish event, I especially in the early days, oh my God. I would just be like, I would be nervous and then I would drink to a point where like shit would get so bad. Yeah,

yeah, the things I've done that. I did that too. Oh my God. Terrible. The other thing you said that I was really, um, that really perked my ears up.

Yeah. And made me think, huh, was when you mentioned, very briefly you, you mentioned your dad. Yeah, yeah.

Have you talked about that a lot? No. I'm down to talk about anything with that. But I, I don't think I've ever really publicly talked much about him or like that whole, you know, relationship.

Well, it's hard to, yeah, especially is he still alive he is okay he's i don't know his health is not great he lives with my grandma somewhere i think in like virginia which sounds so country but um yeah i'm from maryland so virginia is not far and it is a very southern state yeah he uh i think a couple years ago started to have like a kidney issue where like i don't really know the details me and him have been kind of estranged for like even when him and my mom were still together.

That sounds very similar to mine. Oh, yeah. Very, yeah, that's strange how parallel our lives. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. My parents were married in like a really bad, like, toxic marriage for a, like, pretty much my whole life. And only very recently has my mom divorced him, but I.

Even though she was separated from him, she didn't divorce him. No, they lived in the same house. Like, he was like, oh, wow. He lived downstairs. she lived upstairs. That's more of like a cohabitation type thing. Yeah. Well, she also,

she couldn't really afford to like get divorced. So that was always like a big thing. And like kind of part of the reason she and like, you know, we were so broken away where like he's like he's, it's kind of funny. Like it's not like some big depressing thing. Like I kind of look at it through like a funny scope sometimes because he

really is like a nut job. He's had like 50 jobs during my lifetime and each one is just like, you cannot make this shit up. He was like a lays potato chip delivery. man and he like hurt his back doing that. And then he like worked for some like weird like he like repaired cracks in people's houses. He's just he's done like so many random jobs. So he's struggled to get consistent. Yeah. And he yeah. And he had his own like really bad things I think happened to him in his life like before my mom came along before all of that. Like he has like, you know,

alcoholic like my grandparents were really big alcoholics like handle of pop off like every three days vibe like really like gnarly like. And he had a. really hard upbringing. He got into a car accident when he was in college that was really bad that like, I don't know if I can really like say too much about it, but like he just something really bad happened. I think that really scarred him for a really long time. And he couldn't really like ever get it together in his life. I feel like he was like frozen in this like 24 year old like mentality where even growing up

and being old, he just couldn't quite like figure out how to like parent or like, you know, it was always like acted like a frat boy in a way. It was like weird. Okay, so yeah, it sounds tough. So he grew up in an unstable house with alcoholic parents, which my dad did as well. Couldn't get consistent with anything, it sounds like. Yeah. Jobs, relationships.

And then also there's something you're saying like he's immature. Super immature, super immature. And he's your biological dad? Yeah. Okay. And your sister as well? Yeah. Okay.

So has kids probably tries to settle down with your mom. in some way, shape, or form. Yeah. But can't seem to get momentum with that. And also you said he struggled with, did he struggle with drinking in drugs? Oh, yeah. Okay. So he was also dealing with addiction issues.

Yeah. Okay. And he was just kind of like, he was just kind of a shist. He was kind of shasty. Like he would always be like getting into some shit. He'd be in like some kind of like, I think he started doing real estate and with my grandpa. And then he like, guys like, license taken away. I'm not really sure why. I was very young.

So he's getting himself into like short term deal making and borrowing from this guy to pay that guy. Oh my God. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. He got arrested outside of my sister's basketball game once. And I remember Oh my God. That's that's traumatic. Libby, is that your dad? And she was like, what? No. Uh, like, it was like one of those things. But like it is traumatic, but just like it's all like me and her just like laugh. It's just so fucking funny. Like I don't even, it couldn't, it sounds like a TV show. It really, it's a tough way to grow up, but I feel so separate from it now. But, you know, I feel like it definitely did a lot of damage to me. And I was, I was really angry at him for like pretty much my whole life. And I feel like as I've gotten older, I've had a lot more forgiveness in my heart and realized that like, you know, he was a kid at

one point who like had dreams and, you know, hopes for the future. And I feel like he, you know, I feel a little more sorry than I. I do angry about it. Both things can be true. Yeah. And that's the nature. That's the complicated nature of life. Yeah.

Is both things can be true. We can have compassion for someone who didn't have the support they needed. Yeah. And you didn't get the love they needed. And we can be upset about the support we didn't get and the love we didn't get. And that's what I learned is I can respect and love my mom and dad for trying their best. And just being people, they had very tough, very tough lives. So as an adult who's done work and worked on myself, I can look at them more therapeutically

and go, I can see a mile away where all your problems and troubles and, you know, your inconsistencies and your shortcomings and all your injuries, I can see a mile away where that came from. Does it change that I also suffered from your shit? Yeah. And then someone's got to do the work to heal to stop it. Yeah. Because what I don't want to do is do the same thing to my kids.

Yeah. And I think our generation in these last 20 years, like we all started working on ourselves because we kind of cracked that open. We were like, I don't want to do that shit. It really can affect you or it does, like, affect a person for the rest of their life. I don't think people necessarily have to be like victims of something like that or like victims of an abusive parent or victims of or repeat the cycle of things. I feel like I, you know, I don't feel like a victim of my situation. I don't feel like I am going to repeat the

cycle of things, but it is something that in many different facets of life, like from like little girl with like an abusive or like addict parent to to now, it's like it affects so much. It affects you romantically. It affects how you have like conflict in your romantic partnerships or affect. your friendships, your relationships with people, just like how you kind of like move through the world sometimes in ways that like doesn't necessarily have to do with like drinking or drugs, even though sometimes it's affected me in those ways too, those ways too. Well, you're going to have a conflicted relationship with it no matter what. Like no matter what, I do think that like if you grew up with a parent who struggled with addiction, you have a

conflicted relationship no matter what with drugs and alcohol and you have to figure out like that thing. I also think sometimes it can be. very genetic, which is like, I don't know if everyone always agrees with that, but I feel like there's like an addictive kind of personality trait people have. And it's kind of, this scares me a lot sometimes, but it's like everyone's like one of their parents' child. I am like my dad's child to a tea. I've never liked people saying that, but everyone's always like, you know, I have his personality. I have this. I have that. I'm like a funny girl. Like, he was always like Mr. Clown man in the room, whatever. Like, I feel like I'm very much similar to him. And also with

like the kind of needing of instant gratification or like serotonin boost, whether it's like impulsive purchases or whatever. Like he, I'm just very similar to him. So it's like one of those things where as an adult, like I really try to get it together and not let, uh, kind of the things I saw become like my, my like habits and my like the way that I act, I guess in a way. It's interesting. I've said this before on this show because we talk about this stuff. I actually think there is a very thin line between obsession and addiction. I think that creative people, when not applying the creative energy to a constructive thing, building something, making something, can very quickly go cross the line to obsessive

and addiction behavior. Yeah. And I'm probably the same as you. Like if we had not found music and art and take something to make, we could have easily gotten hooked on something else. Yeah, for sure. You know? Yeah, I feel very grateful to, you know, I switched to public school for high school

and got into like choir and very like nerdily loved singing and all of that. And I feel really grateful for that time period in my teen years because the big like, I feel like everyone's high school has like a drug issue. Heroin was like huge at my school. So many people There was like a CNN report about like St. Louis Like death of like teenagers being like three times The National average in this like one pocket of my suburbs

And it was always like wealthy well to do kids from like nice It was really it was really a strange thing. It was like a really big thing at my school. I knew a ton of people. It like it was just it was such a crazy thing like kids were just like overdosing left and right. It was very weird. But I that like I never really like hooked into like that world like I would like smoke

weed with my friends sometimes, but I feel like I never took it farther. I would always get really nerdy about like my passions at that age. Like I feel like I loved painting and making clothes and singing and music. And I got really into different bands and really into different like rappers and all these kinds of things that I like kept myself out of trouble almost just by like having like, you know, a nerd like passion and hunger for creativity and being artistic and drawing and illustration and whatever it was. You know what I mean? It would sometimes it would change. It would be fashion. It'd be all these different things. But I just, I feel like I was always chasing that. So what you're saying is so true. I feel like I was, it's like if you don't find that thing to chase almost like a

drug from like early on and you're like and you have damage from your family or whatever, like it can get, you can get into a bad situation. That's just a cycle, you know? Like what if life knew that we had to be in the first 18 years of our life right where we were to need what we needed to go out and do the things we were going to need to do. Absolutely. And this is the thing about art. Do we make the art? Do we decide?

Do we write the songs? Or do they come from something else through us? I don't know. But I do know that art heals people. Art brings people together. Art makes people feel in times when they need to feel. Art comforts people. Art.

And so as artists, we needed to suffer to feel. that pain so that we could make something to help lots of people. And when I mean lots of people, any amount of people you help is enough to say that it was worth doing. If it was one person or 10 people or 100 or 1,000 or a million, it is enough to say that you did something for one person and that one person carried, went forward. So all of it, there's like the butterfly effect type thing is is beyond what we could actually like quantify like we can put a number on it we couldn't put a value on one person you couldn't put a value on it because you don't know what that one person that one life is going to do as it goes forward the possibilities are endless so to say you make art

to help one person or a thousand people or or a hundred thousand or ten million it all matters the same in my mind. And so in order to do that authentically and in a real way, the only way you get there is suffering. Most of us as artists have similar stories. Like we suffered early. We found art. And then we go forward and like we heal making the art and then people listen and they

heal. That's like the whole purpose. Whether people want to admit it or not. This is not that cool sometimes to say like there's therapeutic value. But it's 100% therapy. value no matter what anyone says every single time. Yeah. Whether it's a big pop song that everyone's just partying to, there's therapeutic value.

Absolutely. In celebration. 100%. If it's a song people listen to when they're alone and they are crying, therapeutic value, all of it matters. And I think artists have to suffer early in life to make art. Yeah, I totally agree. So what would we change?

Because I wouldn't change a thing. Yeah, same. If I had a super cushy, comfortable, upbringing, like some of the people that I like grew up around, I feel like I would not have, I would not be here. I would not even be like in LA probably. I probably would have never gone to L.A. or New York. Like there's people from my hometown who have never like, like, it's like crazy to them that I even like live in L.A. or New York. They're like, whoa. Like that's. And then it also for me was part of my process of actually like loving and accepting and meeting my parents where

they were at. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I, and I'm not. telling anyone out there listening to meet anyone where they're at if that's every situation is different. I don't know what I'm just saying for me I had to find some place to make peace with my own because it was really painful for me for a long time and it was confusing and all the rest. But I feel like you have a really good grasp on it. Thank you. It's refreshing. Thank you. It took a while to get to this point because I definitely held on to way more anger in the past, but that, like, just weighed on me so much heavier. Like, I feel like when I started to feel a little bit more forgiving of him, which granted, like, the last time I saw him in

person, like, we fight, like, we fight crazy. So it's not like it's like perfect or like getting to a forgiving place means that everything's perfect. But definitely. But no one is. Yeah. No real. Yeah. No one is. But at the same time, I feel like letting go of the like hating him so much and like being like, like having like the mentality of like, oh, like I hate my dad. I hate my dad and just kind of letting that go and being a little more forgiving. It just feels better like for me. Like it feels better in my like soul to not hold on to all of that. It's lighter for you.

I walk around. Yeah. It's like I feel lighter in my life lighter in my shoes. I feel like I walk around feeling lighter than having this kind of like. I think it's better. Like over me constantly of like blah blah. Like I think it's better that way. Honestly, even someone out there listening.

you're listening and you're like, there are people out there that are narcissistic psychopaths and you will never, ever make peace with them. You will never get through. You will never. And at some point, if that's what you're dealing with, you have to be able to recognize it and go, I've got to let that go. I've got to like, everybody's dealing with something different. And so I'm not telling someone out there who's estranged from someone, not just their dad. There's not always hope that you're going to be like best friends or you're going to get the, love you want from them. You know, the work might be, might be like, why do I feel like I need love from this person? They can't love me. Yeah. And I deserve better, better than that. But the

therapeutic work and the journey of self is getting to a place where you are at peace. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's like for me, that's what I learned was like early on thought I wanted to control my idea of the results I wanted from everything. Yeah. And then I started to, as I got older realized like, no, no, I want peace with the truth. Yeah. And there may not be a result there for me. It may not ever be a result, but I'm at peace with making peace with the truth of who that person is or what our relationship is or whatever.

So I think that's like really, really, really great. So to your new record, what is your hope for this record? Honestly, I don't really have any like hopes or expectations. I want people to kind of just digest it and enjoy it as they seek fit or, you know, respond to it. Feel something even if they hate it. I just like when people listen to things, even if people hate my music and videos, like, I just like want them to like, feel a little something. I don't know.

Everyone, you know, people on Twitter is so annoying. I feel like people. Twitter is a big fucking junkyard. It's like this, yeah. And it's like dog pack wars between Stan, different Stan fandoms. The dog, it's like when like the like two packs of wild dogs like meet on junkyard and they fight each other. It's like, that's what fandoms are like. Twitter is, it is crazy. It's crazy. I love it, but it is crazy. I'm like addicted to it. I love it. It's insanity.

Like, I'm not even hating on it. I'm saying like, that's just what it is. Yeah. The world we live in. But I think that one's going to hate your music. That's stupid. Yeah. I mean, hopefully not. I feel like, I think my biggest thing I wish for people is that even though this is my first album that I did signed to like a major. Which label are you on? Columbia and Records. Okay. Yeah. So it's been Congrats. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. It's been really cool. I feel like I've had more, like, I've been able to do more with like my visuals and all these different things. But even with that, like, I still have taken a very DIY approach to this album. It was always just like me and producer. I didn't really have any songwriters on anything. I was very, I directed all the music videos. I like, have styled myself for everything. Costume design, like made shit. And like, I hope that kids that like will see that will not make the mistake that like you need any kind of like, because it's very DIY, like approach for a lot of stuff and that you can make magic and make art and like make your visuals and like, if you have music that you want to make or visuals you want to make or something to say, you can do it. Like have a friend, like help you out and like you can make

whatever. You can make it with just a little creativity, I guess. But I really hope people feel inspired to like make their own art in their own way, I guess. Yeah. I feel like, you know, I feel like people always think like, oh, like if only I had this like big budget to do this video, it's like, yeah, you don't need it. I will like rhinestone my own. I like rhinestone to fish for videos and I like held it up. You know, you got to like do stuff yourself. Yeah, yeah, you know. We're still kind of doing that. Yeah. Like we've always kind of done that. And like the videos like we always kind of threw it together and figured it out. And even like we had like big budgets sometimes for the video. But like I remember we made this video this I just want to live video.

and like we somehow had been talked into some video idea that the night before I like came to and I was like, this is not a good video idea. This is going to be terrible. And Benj was like, well, what are we going to do? And I don't know. We had to come up with an idea and with the location that we've already agreed. We're going tomorrow. And we need to figure this out.

And we had the whole day basically to figure it out. And we worked out the video in like 24 hours. we pulled together these like these costumes that were really cheap costumes yeah and like worked it out and put together this whole video and it like ended up being like a classic video for us iconic you know that's how like that kind of stuff that's like that's magic like I love that and it was like a little bit of elbow grease just like we had 24 hours and we did it I think that you have to be that way yeah your fingerprints have to be on stuff you need to really have a perspective and I feel like ideas and something to say. I feel like anytime things are like aesthetically copy pasted or just not

like I feel like as an artist, people will love you and your story or what you have to say. Like I feel like in the past, I don't know, like I've gone through different waves and different kind of like visual worlds with like my music. And this is the first time where it's very like St. Louis. It's very like Missouri and it's very Midwest feeling. It's very Tumblr vibes. It feels like stuff I would have loved in high school. And it feels like really like my story, like very, very much like me and my little like trashy girl drag like thing that I do. And I think, um, people are responding to it more than anything else. And I just feel like there's something to kind of note about that and with, you know, all you really need is like your voice, your perspective, your own like kind of, it doesn't even

always need to be like authentically you per se, but like authenticity and like what you're behind and what you're doing. Like you can make up like a bullshit world, but like you have to be like in it and like making that, you know? and driving that. Yeah, it's kind of like full circle. You get all the way, you go out, you leave St. Louis, you leave the place you grew up, and you go searching. And then you're like, we all go through like the Who Am I phase of like, and then you come

full circle to like, well, you are the person who left St. Louis and came and made their way into this big, wild music industry really hard. It's really hard to make it. it's really hard to like stand out. It's really hard. And you have. Like people out there love you. Thank you. And you're on your way to wherever you're going. And you've got to trust that. Yeah. What is your career going to be? Well, it's going to be you. And I think the more in tune and in touch you get with yourself and what makes you happy and what brings you joy. And when you put that music in the world, you're going to be more and more you. That's what this album sounds like. Sounds like it's more you.

Definitely. And you're taking, you're embracing kind of what you, what I found with myself too, running away from something, learning that like I actually, there's room for that, that kid who grew up in Southern Maryland who hated the place and wanted to run away from it and didn't want to admit he was even from there and didn't want to blah, blah, blah. And like, you come full circle to like, no, no, I love where I'm from. This doesn't mean I'm going to move back and set up my life there. I'm not.

I live here and I have a wife and kids and I love my life. both are true. Yeah. Like I am that person, but I'm also this person who left and went into the world and went on all the rides to figure out which one I liked and figured out a bunch of stuff and landed and just like, well, this is kind of who I am. It's all those things. And I think every single career that's interesting has to be different.

And I feel like you're on your own path, which is cool. That's the thing that stood out to me when I asked people about you, people that really love you. Like, why do you love? Why do you love them? And it was that. It's just there's something unique. There's something different. There's something special. There's something like it feels like you're individual. You're on your path. That's so nice of everyone. And it's not about, I promise you, I think you'll go forward. You'll have your hits. You'll have all the things. You'll get there. It's a winding road. You'll get there. You'll have all the things. And the thing that'll continue to stand out is like the feeling more than. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Well, all of that stuff doesn't really put like wind in my sales. I feel like, most satisfied if I've like made a video that I like love the way it turned out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't really need like, I don't even need critical acclaim. I feel like I that is like, I'm so uninteresting that too. I don't really, I don't know. I don't like trust like. I feel like music. No, actually, I feel like I'm not like a, I'm not like a music critic like darling. People don't really people be like, hate her and I'm like, fine. Like, you know. The critical darlings get kind of chosen. I feel like it. It feels like it reminds me once again, back to like the growing up poor thing. I feel like it's always like music that's very like avant-garde that I don't really understand because I was not in like a financial bracket to be like, oh, I love that.

Like when you see like performance art and you're like, people are like, this is so thoughtful and poignant. And you're like, huh? Like, I don't know. I don't know about that. You know what I mean? Like I feel like it's not always, not all, not every time. But like, you know what I mean? So where I landed with that because we weren't either and I always had a chip on my shoulder.

And then I kind of made peace with it. And then I became friends with some people that were critical. critically acclaimed people. And I realized, like, too, like they didn't even choose it. Yeah. Like, and I also kind of realized, too, like, it's a double-edged sword. Like, it swings both ways. Because they can, like, they can turn on you.

Especially now more than ever because things move so fast. Like the minute, the public decides something and it's like, doesn't matter how true it is. It doesn't matter the details. Like, suddenly, like, the sword has swung. Yeah. And, like, the narrative just, you know, there's a very, it's a very tricky place. place to live. For sure. And to be free is to not give a fuck. Yeah. And just do what to be able to move and go wherever you want and not have and not be encumbered by any good or bad thing. For sure. You know,

but I think that you actually do get, I think you're critically respected. I don't, I don't, a claim is a, is a tough one because like some people get tapped and like they're anointed like somehow. Yeah. Yeah. And you could probably engineer that too if you really wanted to. I mean, like, but I think that you're in really good spot. Thank you. I think you're, I think you're prime. People, you know?

Like, I care about like what people, like, if like people respond to it, that's like, that's like, that's all good by me. And you have a very, so, so. So, so one thing I'll say too is like, tell you when the gays love you. Yeah. That is a fierce. Yes. And loyal and supportive.

And the community is like, like that's, and that's also one that like, you don't get to choose. No. And the people. who who try to market to any different crowd. It's like you see it. And then you see people who people just embrace. And I think that you just have like an excitement.

And like when that happens, you're in a really good place. Yeah. The very good crowd. Thank you. Yeah. I love it. I feel like I'm like one of them. So like it's like it's very synced up.

Like I, like my friends in high school were like two gay guys. So like I very much was like the hag, if you will. I get it. You know. Yeah. I'm married to a gay icon. I know. I'm aware.

I stole her tattoo, you know. Oh, yeah. She has it on her foot. Do you know I got my Jesus piece by Mark Mahoney and he looked at this one and he went, I did a tattoo like that. Oh my God. Love. We have matching Jesus pieces.

Is that cool? Mark did this and he saw this and he was like, I did a rosary tattoo for Nicole ones. And I was like, that's where I stole it. I love Mark. He's great. Mark Mahoney is a, by the way. He's really cool. O.G.

Oh, yeah. What a guy. Bad ass. dude. And a really, really nice guy. So sweet. I interviewed him and he did this tattoo while I was interviewing him for this like magazine piece. And he is like, I don't even know. He just feels so like spiritually. I feel like he was just like very casually like dropping wisdom on me. And I was just like, whoa. His like outlook. He's so calming. He's so he's so cool. He's such a gracious person. He's nothing bad to say about anybody. He's very generous guy. He's very kind. Yeah, I really,

yeah, he's great. He's saying he's old school. Legend. Yeah. He was telling me his whole story about like learning his, you know, gray scale shading and like all like him doing tattooing down and like, I think he said like Long Beach or something like that. And he learned from like all the gangster tattoos. He's the coolest. I love him. He's really cool guy and really like just a LA legend. Yeah. And like and did all Nicole's tattoos. Yeah. And that's why he was like, I did something like that. And I was like, that's where I got the inspiration. Yeah. It's cool. I love her. She's so cool. Yeah. She would like that too. Wow. new album are you going on tour yes yes when's the tour i think fall this year starts in fall so like around september i think we're hitting like is it on sale yet it will be on sale it's called worst girl in the world tour okay are you excited about tour i am i actually love touring more than like any other piece of the pie with yeah with music i absolutely love touring it's my first tour i'm doing with like a full band too it's always been kind of like me and dj

and I wanted to do like a very like soul wax like punk electronic kind of vibe. So it'll be like band electronic and I'm so excited. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I'm excited. Congrats on the record. Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me. And this is like so I'm such a huge fan and this is crazy. Thank you. This is great. What a deep talk we've had today. I'm like, good talk. Yeah. You know, I'm like excited to even listen back to it.

Like I feel like it's interesting. Listen, I'm excited for you. I think you're, you're super cool. Thank you. Thanks for coming. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

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