Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Tim McIlrath

Episode Date: September 23, 2026

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden sits down with Tim McIlrath of Rise Against.Rise Against formed to inspire change for the better, taking the torch from Bad Brains, Minor Threat, and 7 Seconds to create their own political anthems. From the raw sound of 2001’s The Unraveling to the complex themes spread across last year’s Ricochet, it’s apparent that the Chicago punks try to empower everyone around them. Along the way, they’ve championed the new wave of alternative, bringing Koyo, Destroy Boys, and Spiritual Cramp on tour with them. Before hitting the road with Alkaline Trio later this year, the Rise Against frontman stopped by the Artist Friendly studio to discuss what’s next. (0:00) – Stories as Bridges(0:54) – Getting to Know Rise Against(4:14) – The Next Generation Always Shows Up(4:50) – Politics Without Preaching(5:45) – Straight Edge, Vegetarian, Unapologetic(6:49) – Authenticity(7:27) – Building a Rise Against Community(9:17) – Meeting Fans Still Hits Different(10:14) – Fans Who Turned Music Into Impact(13:52) – Refusing to Be Silenced on Stage(16:38) – Building a Space Free From Hate(18:12) – Music's Power to Change Minds(19:52) – What Fans Hear That Artists Miss(25:46) – Being Flawed in Public Through Songs(29:11) – Stories Connect a Divided World(30:10) – Changing How They Release Music(34:29) – New Rise Against Music(35:10) – Chicago: Community Over Competition(37:18) – Patrick Stump at Rise Against's Debut(43:59) –Ambition Has No Ceiling(46:56) – Letting Fans Define the Band(49:56) – Giving Your Life to Art(51:21) – Not Everyone Is Your Audience Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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You want to make somebody feel a certain way. That's what you were talking about, like, art, music, film. Like, more than they relate to, like, say, like, a 10-page report on what's wrong with the planet, you know, they relate to someone telling a story. Yeah. With, like, a person, a character. You know, that's what a song is. That's what a movie is.

That's what art can be. We relate to stories. And stories are one of the few things, I think, that bridge that gap that we now live in, you know? Like, we can all, like, talking about, like, converting somebody. We can throw stats at each other and whatever. But, like, when you just tell us something, you know, we can tell us. story like, hey man, I had this experience. This was the way I felt about it.

Like, oh, well, now I'm starting to see why you are the way you are, how you feel. And maybe I even sympathize with your perspective because you just told me a story about, like, what happened to you to make you feel like this. And that's what any good song should be is like a good story that makes somebody feel a certain way. Tim from Rise Against. Welcome to the show. How you doing, man? I'm good.

Thanks for having me. We have never hung out before really. It's all like coming on there. But I'm sitting here going like, what's the meaning of life? Like, oh, we're just going. We're just diving deep right away. No, no. We're like seven minutes in.

No, but like we do this for a living and we make art we care about. Right. And I bring this to rise against because I'll tell you why. Okay. How this relates, even though I didn't know I was going to go this heavy on you right away. I'm a huge fan. Thank you. And one thing that I see from the outside, this is my perception.

Mm-hmm. Because I don't know the inner workings. You guys seem to really like what you do. You have a great live business. You make great records. You have a really good business. It seems like you like it. You have incredible relationships with your crew,

which says everything to me. Like, what's touring like with that band? And you either go like, oh, it's cool. That's where you really find out about. That's where you find out about people. You're like, it's cool or you go, it's fucking miserable. Yeah, yeah. And we share some crew members, I know.

We do. Yeah, yeah. And they say highly of you guys. incredible people. Yeah, they are. We're lucky to have them. Rory. Rory's the best. Yeah, yeah. And Chris Pollock is like, yeah. It's so funny, man. Like, I, I never used, um, in-eer monitors. You did my whole career? Really? When we had Rory, like, when we started with Roy? What? Like, Rory's your first, oh. Two years ago. Well, you're lucky you got Rory. Got the best. Because you could have found some.

And he plays golf. Some clowns. And he plays, are you a golfer? Yeah. He plays good golf. Yeah, he's annoyingly good golf. Yeah, he's good. I mean, he's Scottish, right? So he's good. Yeah, he's great. But But then you kind of get a peek into people's worlds and without, I'm not like judging. I'm just gathering like we all do. I'm like, huh. Totally. Yeah, you want to know. And the impression that I get is really positive.

It's nice. It's like, oh, I want to go to his house or his restaurant. I want to go like, that's a good vibe over there. Yeah, I think to your point, like a crewing crew in your band, you know what I mean? You're looking for young talent. You know what I mean? That's also within your budget. It's probably similar to a label or a management.

You're trying to find the next big thing. You're trying to find the band before. or they're big or whatever. And I feel like we've found a lot of talented people we put on the road crew with Rides Against. And they get so good that they outgrow us. You know what I mean? And so they move on to somebody who can pay a lot more

or like, you know, it's just a better gig, more high profile, whatever it is. And we never blame them, by the way. It's kind of like, dude, you got to go where you got to go. It's career stuff, yeah. Exactly. It's like jump to this stadium band. It's also fun for them.

They're like, it's fun for them. They're like, it's go mix something else and see what that's like. Exactly. And even if it's like, even if one of your like, smaller bands you develop turned into something massive and then moved on there's still a bit of like proud father in you you're just like this is great and it's good and it's so good for you know and so i think that happens to us for sure but i've also as as sad it is to watch our crew guys go sometimes to somebody bigger i've ran into them later on down the line like dude how is that and then it's like

they're not having fun i see guys who have tons of success and are poised for more success but they are me I look at it and go those guys are working that's what I want I want to just work right and have the hits or the wins or the good tours they'll come yeah but there's something about that like work that I just think is really really fucking cool you want to create fans every single year of your career yeah you don't want to just do it in this year and then rely on those same fans to keep coming to your shows or buy your records you want like I always joke that like my front row has been 16 years old for 25 years yeah you know yeah so every year there's like an incoming class of like freshmen finding like punk and finding hardcore and finding the scene

and you want to be there for when they do it you know i mean because they're finding the bands that they're going to relate to the most might not always be your band you know i mean but at least if like you're there you can kind of gather this incoming class of like freshmen and be like okay and now you guys are a part of this and you know what you just touched on it and i thought about why i like why i'm such a fan of rise against it is punk but i don't feel like it's preaching at me and it's judging me, I can participate. And I can be like, I fucking agree. I love this song. I love this brand. I love it. I like, I like the merch. I like the vibe. That's cool. But I don't feel like I have to be it either.

Yeah, yeah. That's a fine line, especially as a band who has decided early on to fuse politics into our music. You know what I mean? How do we do this? How do we go out there? Because I don't like being preached at. You know what I mean? Like nobody who found a punk scene likes being preached at. You know what I mean? If anything, they walked into those doors because they got sick of the world telling them what to do. They don't need me on a microphone telling them what to do also. And so it's a fine line. I don't even think I always walked that line like that well early on.

You know what I mean? I think there were times where I fucked up. And I was like, dude, you just preached at that audience. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like you don't need to do that. You know, you lost people. And so it's guess and test.

You know what I mean? It's trial and error. It's like how do I communicate this message, you know? Because I know like as a guy who has like I have. like I stand where I stand politically. I'm also someone who has been straight edge like my whole life. You know what I mean?

I don't eat meat. Are you vegan? No, I'm not vegan. Just vegetarian? It's vegetarian. And you're straight edge. Yeah, yeah. So you've never drank.

Uh, no. I mean, I want to say never. I would say like 13 years old, like raiding the parents. Yeah, right, right. I wasn't like a drinker. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And no drugs or anything.

And no drugs or anything. I never did drugs either. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I drank, but. Yeah, totally. It was never straight edge.

I was just kind of like, do I like drinking? I don't drink anymore because I don't like it. But I didn't know. I was just kind of like, I guess I drink. And then, well, my dad was an alcoholic. So I always had a kind of strange relationship with it where I was like, do I drink? Right. Because if that's how he is, maybe I'm that way.

And then I wasn't. But I also was never really like comfortable. Right. So it was weird. So I just stopped. Right. And the only reason I'm bringing up is because I know that the majority, the overwhelming majority of my fans are not like me.

They're not following in my footsteps. They're not worshiping at my altar. They're not like, I got to be like Tim. Yet they're still there hanging out, loving the band, loving the music. I'm not asking them to be something that they're not. They're not asking me to be something that I'm not, you know? And I think that's a really cool relationship just from the get

that we can already be like, okay, I'm not sitting here trying to convert you to anything, you know, or whatever. I'm just who I am and I'm singing about who I am. And people recognize that sort of authenticity. Yeah, you're being yourself. Yeah. And I think that sort of worked and it's sort of worked for Rides Against.

I know we have all walks of life walking into our show. And so the idea is to have gratitude for that and be a cool band and be sing angry songs and be confrontational in your own way, but also create a community. Yeah. Of people that love what you do. And I think we've created a really cool community. I've never met a RISE against fan. I don't like, you know what I mean?

Like, I think it's really, even if we don't see eye to eye to eye. I have stuff. I think that we share a lot of things in common. That's a nice relationship to have. I feel the same way with Good Charlotte. I feel like I've never met like a good Charlotte fan I didn't like. Yeah, people are always like, do people bug you on the street when they recognize you? It's like, no one's ever bugged me. No. You know what I mean? Like I meet cool people. You know what I mean? Like that people are like, that person was nice, you know? Absolutely. And I know the difference between someone who's really like a good Charlotte fan. Right. And someone who just knows. Yeah. Yeah. It's two of things. Not that I wouldn't respect the person who knows of our band.

Yes. Like a passive kind of like, oh, yeah, you're the guy. I'm cool. Yeah. Very welcoming. Right. But I know when someone fucks with my band. I'm like, yeah.

Yes. And we generally have like at this age, I find it to be like a really nice, like we share something. Like it's really nice. Well, when somebody gets what you do. Yeah. Like that's pretty cool. Like you said, you can kind of gauge the person you're talking to like, oh, do you

just recognize me, but you're not really a fan of the band and you couldn't name a song. Or have you heard one song? You know, so you're like, that's cool. And then when someone's talking to somebody, it's like, oh, you just mentioned like kind of a deep cut there. You know the records. Or you just named the amount of shows you went to or you named a specific show. So I know you've been on this train for a long time.

And then it's cool to like meet somebody in real life, which is hard to do sometimes. You know what I mean? Our whole world is online and be like, wow, this is like a real person that really was impacted by something that I did. And that's pretty cool. I like those meetings. Like I find, I like to know like what they do or what their life.

Like I end up in some deeper conversation with so on. I will end up talking to people who like people that are fans of this band if I meet them out in the world, which I do like on occasion like probably like once a week. You know what I mean? You're out somewhere like Target or I don't know, wherever. Totally. And somebody like knows your shit. Yeah. I will take the time to have a real conversation with that person because I enjoy it.

Like you get to know back when you were in it in a younger age. I feel like maybe we were overwhelmed with lots of ideas and it was a little like, you're just overwhelmed by the whole thing. Is like, can I keep doing this? Is this real? Is this? You're just like, you can't believe any of it.

At this age, you can compartmentalize so much. There's so much more space to, you meet someone is like, hey, on that record, that song, you can give time to that and it's a really nice thing. Yeah. I love it. It's amazing.

To know a song that you wrote maybe like 20 years ago is helping somebody like right now, those stories are always, incredible to know that the music connected with somebody. I had a moment where a package showed up my doorstep and I opened it up and it was a model wind turbine, okay? Just like this big, right? You'd put it like on your shelf. And there was a letter with it and it was somebody who grew up listening to Rise Against, resonating with some of the songs that we wrote about, you know, protecting the environment and climate change and that kind of thing. And then deciding

I want to be a part of the solution. I want to do something in this world. And this person went into, I don't know what they studied exactly, but they went into help create wind turbines to create renewable energy on this planet. You know? And here I was holding this model wind turbine that this Rise Against fan was probably like 14 or 15

when they first discovered the band, was inspired to go on to do. And is now like, and now I am benefiting from his efforts. Like I'm living in a world where he is creating renewable energy, where a rise against fan, is creating a better world that I live in, that my family lives in, you know?

Yeah. And it was so, like, emotional to think, like, this is not an outcome that I predicted when I sat down to write those songs. It's a positive impact and outcome. And a crazy full circle. Yeah. Where it's like that's...

Do you have it on your shelf? I have it in my studio. That's pretty cool. And I've run into that person because it was a mystery to who he was and, like, everything that I've run into him at the airport, actually. And he didn't think I'd remember us.

He just started talking as, like, a fan. It was like, hey, I'm a big fan, whatever. I don't know if you know, but I sent you and I was like, dude, like, I have that in my studio. Like, I see it like every day. Like that's really cool. That letter was like moving for me. You know, it was an important part of like my career. Now I've like, I've seen him at shows sometimes too. And like, and it's pretty cool. That's pretty cool too. They're like, when you think about the effort he had to go through to get that and send it to you. Yeah. Yeah, that was a good one. I'll tell one of the story. I was in mind to get coffee in Chicago. Rize was rehearsing, uh, taking a break.

coffee. I'm in line behind this guy. And in the back of his calf, I can see a rise against tattoo. And I'm in line behind him. And I was like, that's pretty cool. And I can remember if I said something to him or if he said something to me. But either way, we got talking. And he's like, dude, like, obviously, like, your band is important to me. And that's what we're making small talk? And I'm like, where are you from? He told me he where he's from. It wasn't from Chicago. And I was like, so what are he doing here now? And he's like, I'm working in human rights law and I'm here in Chicago holding law enforcement accountable for all kinds of misdeeds. You know, I'm representing victims of like, wow, you know, basically like bad cops kind of thing,

which Chicago has a reputation. Yeah, yeah. We always have. Bad apples. Yeah, bad apples. Exactly. And again, I was like, that's incredible. Like, like, again, I am benefiting from you being here in my city.

You know what I mean? Like holding bad people accountable, representing innocent people who got screwed. And somehow in this full circle world, like, you're telling me that this band inspired you to do that. And then all of a sudden, the power of music becomes palpable and, like, real and like, holy shit. Like, how can we ever underestimate this ever again? It's why every record, every song, putting your heart into it, putting your soul out. By the way, you risk your, honestly, you risk your safety sometimes. You risk your comfort.

You risk your peace when you speak your mind, when you stand up for something. But you're doing it because you believe in it. Yeah. I mean, we were a band that has had death threats. You know what I mean? For things that we've said, you know. I didn't know that.

Yeah. And it was, yeah, it was a moment then where we had to decide like, oh, should we still be saying these things? You know what I mean? Yeah, it's a decision. It's like when I walk out on stage tomorrow, as the guy's promise he's going to show up and like do something about it like am i going walking on stage you know and it was a moment especially for me or i was like well yeah i have to walk on stage

like i got to do that i can't live in fear of this person what do you guys do do you have to have security like it's not a regular problem it happened but it's not like it happened but it's not like to happen once is fucking like i don't know dude like in the world we live in it's not like this is a new problem or a new idea that like people are like unhinged and crazy and they and they show up places and they do bad things. Like the only reason you would say I've gotten death threats and I still went on stage

and everyone listening would go, ooh, because we feel it because we've seen it. Not like it's not happened. Right. So when you say that, I don't take it lightly. Right.

And that's the thing is like when I hear that, I go, oh shit, that's the power of a platform where you're standing up for something you believe in. Right.

The fact that you have to stand up means there are people who don't agree. Right. Otherwise, you wouldn't have to stand up for it. Right. The sick part of extremism, religion, politics, people that have attached their personal happiness

to this kind of idea where they would see someone standing up for something and they'd want to hurt them, that extremism is like, it's like mental illness, sickness, things like that. Like, it's real. Right.

But that's made it a dangerous world for people to speak up for things to speak their mind, to stand up for things. It's made it dangerous to do it. Totally. And like, I don't know the answer, but when you say that, it strikes me. I'm like, holy shit, wait, what? You had a death threat?

Yeah. Like, that's not, as soon as somebody writes it or sends it to you, it's a death threat. And then you really actually have, in this world, you have to take that seriously. Yeah. And we took it as seriously as we could and forward it to people and said this happened to us. This was over 10 years ago now. So, and I feel like political violence has escalated. It was still bad then, though.

It was still bad then, yeah. But it's become even far more real, like, as of late. But it was something that was in the back of my mind. I mean, for sure, I had to think about it. But at the same time, I was kind of like, I, I'm not going to live on, like, behind this veil and hide from anything. You know what I mean? I have to go out there. And if anything, I have to say this even stronger because I know it needs to be said.

Like, I'm putting water where the fire. is and obviously hitting nerves, you know. And I think that that's the backwards part of rise against and being in the music industry is that the idea is that you, if you're in the music world or whatever, you're not trying to alienate anybody. Like we're trying to alienate people all the time. You know what I mean? Like it's just sort of it's baked into all we do.

We're just going to. If we're doing our job, there's somebody being alienated, you know, from this community that we're creating. Right. Because there's a community that we are creating that people are, we want people to come in. And then there are people that we were trying to actively reject and say, you're not welcome in this world. You know what I mean? Like this world that we're creating is going to be free from racist and sexists and homophobes.

You know what I mean? Right. If you fall in that category, we'd love to convert you. But like B, you're also just not welcome in this community. So we're having that compass arise against from the get has made it not a debate. You know what I mean? Yeah. We don't debate about who we are.

Like it's just sort of to where we like put our foot down from the, The day we named our band rights against. You know what you just said that man? I was like, it was really interesting. And I give you a lot of credit because it shows your optimism. Because I'm not,

I'm not a political activist. I'm not. It terrifies me. You just said if we could convert them. Like to me, I never thought about that. Can you convert a bigot? Can you convert a homopophobe?

Can you convert of someone who's full of hate that hates someone for existing? can you convert that person? I never thought about that. It's a good question. Like honestly just hearing you say, I don't even know where I'm going with this. But you just said something.

I've never heard someone say, like there's hope. There's good in people. You know what I mean? And like you see it and like, I've seen, man, I never heard that.

I've seen people come around. You know what I mean? And you've seen and like going back to us talking about not being able to us, not we shouldn't underestimate music. Like there's literally studies that will tell you that music is a bigger influence

on a young person than their friends, their family, their religion, their teachers. Like, think about that. And like, it sounds bizarre until you think about your experience and then you know it's true because you're just like, oh, yeah, music was that important to me. And I think music was that important to me too. 100%. Like, it taught me how to dress. It taught me it does teach you ideas like, yeah, that's not cool or that's cool or like,

I feel like I hope our music contributed to people loving themselves. So sometimes we implied things and sometimes we were. But I feel like we were always, maybe we're like somewhere in the world of Rise Against and the sense of like we did want people to be themselves. Yeah. I never felt like I was good at standing up for anything. But that is standing up something just like what you just said. You're populating the musical ecosystem with positive things and good things.

And that's when you meet that fan that knows more than one song. And when they tell you about what the band means to them, they're talking about every. song. They're talking about everything that you put, every little Easter egg that you put into every single song. They know your personality. They know the overall like arc of your message, even if you don't know it. You know what I mean? Right. Like they can just see like, oh, I like this. It's making me feel this way. Like our fans worked out my subconscious. Right. That happens to me too. Yeah. Like I didn't even know what I was implying by saying that. Yeah. But also what I realized too about a good Charlotte show is you may be there and you may not share the same political view as the person next to you. You may be a

different religion. You may be a bunch of different things in each other. You will not fit in or have a good time at our show if you're hateful and like want to hurt people. You will only have a good time if you are accepting of everyone there and the vibe is we're all here together. Period. Which is so important. Which is like definitely who we are. Yeah. Like as people like like I, my first questions for people aren't necessarily like their belief system. Yeah, yeah. That's not how my brain organizes. Yeah, yeah. But usually you get there with someone at some point. If you spend enough time with someone, you get to their belief system. You go, oh. Right, right. Oh, we don't agree on that. Right. But we've gotten in enough that I've already accepted this person. Yeah.

And that's generally like the way my brain organizes to people is something more like how do we feel and like our thoughts on like something like a more emotional. Yeah. And then when we get around the bend to like, they're like, I had a really interesting conversation with the singer from spiritual cramp, right? Oh yeah. And he's like, he's great. Fuck cops. And I'm like, oh, but we had already, we had already had like such a, we, I like, I like, I love him. I really like him. And I love their music. I don't know if I picked up on the fuck cops part because I'm not fuck cops. But I'm like, Bad cops, of course, bad apples. I'm like, no, there's bad doctors.

There's bad priests. There's bad cops. Absolutely. There's bad people. We should hold all bad people accountable. We should get bad people out of power, all that. But like I love cops. I love first responders.

Like I'm a, we do charities for first responders. And I was like, oh. And we see it differently because I group cops in with first, like I look at them as first responders. I look at them as like, I've always felt that way. So like we do a lot of stuff for like first responders. It's a really good thing. Right. It's not, it's a different wavelength than like we do need to reform things.

We do need to punish people that do. You're always holding things accountable. You're always regulating the, yeah. It's a tricky conversation. Yeah, it is because it's like, do you, wait, are we saying like there should be no law enforcement? You know what I mean? Like at all. And then people could take you and take you out of context and put you over here on their piece of

TikTok content. That's not reality. It's not a sound bite. You know what I mean? It's more complicated than that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I grew up in a punk scene that was like fuck cops. I grew up in Chicago where cops were, you know, we probably invented the term forced confession.

You know what I mean? Things like that. Also, when I finished this here today, I'm going to go have coffee with all my best friends who's an L.A. cop. Right. You know what I mean? And I was just riding bikes with my best friend in Chicago who was a Chicago cop. Who are risking their lives every day.

Risking lives every day. Yeah. And these are good people. And you know them personally. They are good people doing good things. good things that care about what they do. But they also, the thing they hate most, too, is a bad cop. Yeah.

They also hit a bad cop. Yeah, exactly. They want bad cops out also, you know? But I mean, if you think about it, like, we once lived in, like, medieval times where, like, violence meant, like, we each had our own castle and we each had our own armies, and we could do whatever we wanted with that army. We had private armies. You know what I mean?

So it was like, I want more of your land. I'm going to send my guys out to get you. And you're like, oh, I'm going to fight back and let me do that. And whoever kills each other wins. And that was the world. We all lived in. We all had our own little, like, brutal. Exactly.

And at some point, we monopolized violence and said, let's create something and hold it accountable where it's following a code of ethics. And when it doesn't follow that code of ethics, let's hold it accountable. And it's kind of as simple as that. When people say, fuck cops are back to the badge, it's like, let's just talk about justice. Yeah. And let's let justice be served. Not that there are people wrong on both sides of it, you know?

I knew I'd like your perspective. I think having like cop friends too helps me have that perspective as well. You know a person that's having an experience and you can you can contextualize it. Right. But I'm not naive to the sense that there are, there have been police in Chicago that have literally forced confessions out of young, disenfranchised people on the south side of Chicago that are in jail for no reason. Absolutely.

And things like the Innocence Project exist because this person was railroaded into jail, you know. And there's reform that has to happen. And like what they've done in Maryland is really, they've done a lot of good stuff in Maryland because there's like a bunch of old weed fucking convictions and people, you know what I mean? There's like stuff that's, it's not right. Right. And it affected a whole community. Right.

If we took all the sensationalized pop culture media out of it and just looked at things as people and we all looked at a table and looked at that sounds right. Most people would agree with like the right thing. Also the idea, right, like that I'm a preacher, I'm a saint. Now you're a person. Totally. And you take advantage of people and you have some sort of power over this group of people. Or I'm a doctor or I'm a politician.

I'm giving my life to serve my community. No, you're in a position of power and you're using it to gain something. And like there's good people that are actually serving their community. And there are bad people who are like, ambitious and they're just like in a way that they want as much power as they can have so they can you know bend it and twist it and be powerful and that's like ego and like human beings are flawed so like the interesting thing about being a professional musician is you're a flawed person who's living it and working it all out in front of everybody in your songs yeah i mean it's like and it's all in our

lyrics it's all our songs if you went through all of your songs and my songs right now we're not going through records telling people how we have shit together every fucking day all the time. And we're not saying follow me. We're saying this is what I think. Yeah. Like all my flaws are in these songs. You know what I mean?

Like all of them. Like my deepest darkest moments. The things I don't share with anybody, I share with a pen and paper, you know. And so I am going on stage, broadcasting to you how flawed I am. And in a fucked up way, that is what has amassed a community of fans around

who said, I relate to what you're saying, you know? And that's kind of music. It's our music. It's where our world comes from. It's not songs talking about how awesome we are. Yeah. And it's like,

follow me. I have the answer. Yeah. But it's interesting. I never thought about like comedians too. Yeah. They're not saying they fucking have the way. Yeah, yeah.

Follow me. You're like, nah, actually, I'm just saying what I think about that. And in a way that you can, it's palatable so that we can all laugh at it and acknowledge it's real. It exists. Like I love Dave Chappelle for this.

He'll bring shit up and we'll all laugh. But he's leading everyone along to. acknowledge things and to me all great comedians do this. Yeah. They help us see the truth. Yeah, yeah. And you can't change the truth. Like, it may not be something we can fix right now or it may not be something, but we can

all at least like acknowledge it like musicians, movies, actors, writers, like the arts. I would say the arts. Yeah, yeah. Where artists could go wrong is feeling like they have all the answers when I think the artists that make an impact. You guys, you guys would be in that group. We can name a bunch of bands. They're actually just like vomiting out all their thoughts, their worries, their anxieties, their anger. You feel angry. You can't change. Like you obviously at some point felt frustrated about something about the environment. Like why doesn't anyone fucking care about this? Right.

This is a problem. And you write a song, you're angry. It translates. People are like, I want to go and actually be a part of the solution of that. And then the guy starts working at the wind turbine thing. And like now he's contributing. That's the power of this thing that could be dismissed as like, oh, you kids, you're in the garage, you're making your music. Good luck with that. Right.

It's interesting. And it's the risk you take when you create. You're throwing it. So it's so bold to go out there and throw something out there and think anyone's going to relate to it. You know what I mean? And then when someone does, it's why your band eventually goes on to do another record or plays a show and that's what I feel like that was what the early days of rise was for me it was

like writing these lyrics these songs and then just like giving them to the world and just like oh shit we'll see what happens you know and then going from town to town in our van and watching the people come in the door and be like holy shit people relate to this you know like people feel like I feel and like you know fans will tell you like oh your music makes me feel less alone like no you're being here makes me feel less alone like the fact that you're here is like holy shit like someone I identifies with this way I'm feeling, which it took a lot to put down and it might have been, you may even felt like it was cringy and like, I don't know if I should say this, but I'm just going to say it, you know, and then have somebody kind of validated and be like, man, I've

been waiting for someone to. That's the word, validate. Yeah. To be validated is a real thing. You want to make somebody feel a certain way. That's what you were talking about, like art, music, film, all that stuff. Like people relate, like, more than they relate to like, say, like, a 10-page report on what's wrong with the planet, you know, they relate to someone telling a story.

with like a person, a character. You know, that's what a song is. That's what a movie is. That's what art can be. We relate to stories. And stories are one of the few things, I think, that bridge that gap that we now live in. You know, like we can all, like, talking about like converting somebody. We can throw stats at each other and whatever.

But like, when you just tell a story like, hey, man, I had this experience. You know, this was the way I felt about it. Like, oh, well, now I'm starting to see why you are the way you are, how you feel. And maybe I even sympathize with your perspective because you just told me a story about, like, what happened to you to make you feel like this. And that's what any good song should be is like a good story that makes somebody feel a certain way. What about the new music?

Oh, yeah. Let's talk about the new music because I feel like you guys are like gearing up. You know. Going on tour. So for the first time in our band, instead of doing a batch of like, here's 15 songs, making a record, we did just, we did a couple songs, just two songs.

We had two songs that were like, yeah, they were ready to go. go and we were like, I don't want to wait around from our two years till there's, so we have a record, 10 more of these, you know? Smart, actually. Yeah, and like, I think we spent a lot of time touring with, like, Papa Roach last year. Oh, cool. And that's kind of how, like, they do a lot of things.

I like Papa Roach. I like Papa Roach. That was one of the most fun tours. I love those guys. We were the nicest fucking guys you'll ever meet. Their shows were amazing. Their fans were super cool to us. They are, I think, just as, like, an amazement that, like, their band is now twice as big as they've

ever been. Yeah, yeah, they're bigger than they've ever been. And it couldn't happen to a better group of guys. They're just nice, hardworking. Like you see a band like that and you meet them and you're like, fucking, fuck yeah, dude. Yes, they should be there. Yeah. They put in the work. They care. They're awesome. And we had a blast with them. Like our, we've been talking about kind of touring together, but we come from such different worlds that we're never sure how it worked. Well, it 100% worked. You know, I thought it would. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was a blast. It's a great show. Thank you. And I feel like we introduced a lot of their fans to us. You know what I mean? too, which was cool. Anyway, but to hang out with them, it was like, they're like, oh, you guys are

doing a whole album? We just did a song last week. You know what I mean? We're going to do a song next month. Drop a song. Yeah, we're going to drop a song. I was like, oh, we were so, we were kind of, like, we were kind of, like, we were kind of, like, albums only. We're old school like that, you know, I'm It was fun. It was fun and on a number of levels. Going to the studio and only being worried about two fucking songs. It's really nice. Instead of like,

especially as like a singer and lyricist, like having 16 songs that are in various states of finished and unfinished in your head. You can't even really be thinking about the one that you're in because all you think about all the homework you have to do to finish the rest of them and then you're on the clock and shit. Uh-huh. Just focusing on two songs was so much better. I feel like we were able to give much more.

I was able to give much more attention to the detail of the songs. And then also just kind of knocking it out. We did it all in like seven or eight days, which is world record for Rise Against. Like we had like mixed and mastered in like two weeks. Awesome. Yeah, we never do. We take,

we take so long to do shit. That's so gratifying. It was so gratified. I was like, I can't believe we actually just fired up this engine and then churned this out into two songs that we're super proud of too. And we did it with the blasting room again with Bill Stevenson and their whole crew. And yeah.

So we're excited to kind of like instead of putting these songs out in two years from now and tell people, oh, here's where we were in 2026. And now it's 2028. It's like, no, here's where we are right now. Real time. Yeah, it's real time.

You know, and I don't know what that looks like for posterity, like how it, you know, what it looks like on albums or whatever, but I don't care. I saw that Pop Roach didn't care. They were kind of like,

we put a song out. It's fun. Yeah, we did a video. And now we're playing it live tonight. Like, you guys are out there trying to promote 16 songs. We're out there doing promoting one. Yeah. And it was like,

that sounds easier. That's cool. And it sounds like people are going to actually hear it. So yeah, I think if we do that, just know that it's because of Rises Against Impapa Roach. Okay. Know that. Because I'm already going like, why don't we just do one song? It was, I could see doing that.

Like, I could see it just going every couple months and doing like one or two songs. Yeah, because you think about it like, are you guys making on the record? Like, oh, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. It sounds like a lot. That's a lot. Like a lot. And for us, like we usually end up living somewhere different for like two or three months.

And that's stressful. Yeah. That's the other thing, too. I think you'll appreciate as like an artist too is that being in a studio. for like, you know, six weeks at a time or whatever, goes without saying at some point, like, you miss your family, you get, uh, you, there's, there'll be tension in the creative process, which absolutely exists, you know, with your bandmates or your producer or whatever.

And being there just doing two songs, we were able to get in and get out before any of that stuff really materialized. Yeah. Like, and it was material. It was happening. You could tell it was like, oh, like, you know, we were all fighting our battles for like our parts or whatever. And then, but by the end of it, we're just high fiving and walking away before it got

crazy, you know, because it can get crazy. crazy in studios, you know. And I like, you had a good time. I had a good time. I'm giving it a 10 out of 10 reviews so far. Awesome. And I'm excited about the songs. And you love the songs?

And I love the songs. What are they called? What are the names? What are the names? Living Undercover and then Katie Bar the Door. Living Undercover. Yeah. And Katie Bar the Door.

Katie Bar the Door. Yeah. It's kind of like, it was an idiom that I wasn't like that familiar with, but it means like, shit's coming. Yeah. Like, I mean, it was kind of, I think it has like, maybe even original. originally like Scottish, Irish, but ended up in like Appalachia.

Yeah. Kind of an old southern way of like, well, Katie bar the door. Here comes shit. You know what I mean? So that kind of thing. That's good. That's exciting. Yeah, I'm excited for people to hear them.

And then you're going on tour. Yeah. So we're all with Alkaline Trio. Yeah. Oh, that's a good tour. That's a great tour. A little Chicago. Yeah, yeah.

We've known those guys forever. Yeah. Like I was, I knew. I mean, I knew Alquine Trio guys before they were Alcline Trio. Yeah. You know, when they were in bands like Jerkwater. and slapstick and Tuesday. Were you guys all like in Chicago

and like bands and like playing shows and stuff? Yeah. Sounds kind of cool. Yeah. I think Danny and Skeba are maybe five years older than me, four or five years old than me. So I was probably a kid in their front row at first. And then before sharing stages with them.

And then Joe, my bass player's old band was called 88 Fingers Louis. And they were like a punk band that had like national, international presence as well. And so yeah, this was Chicago. It was like slapstick. It was Pegboy. It was Los Crudos. It was Cap and Jazz.

Like all these bands that were happening around that time. So knowing those guys for a long time, we have tour with them in the past. This will be like probably our third tour together. It's been many years. And so it was fun to kind of put like a Chicago thing together. I always felt like the Chicago punk bands were nice. Do you feel that way? You know, there's...

Everyone was pretty friendly. Like I felt that way. Like I met Alkaline Trio and Warped Tour back on the... Yeah. back in the day. And they were like really friendly. Yeah, it's a friendly scene.

And all the Chicago bands felt like friendly to me. It felt like we were all in it together. There were no kind of delusions of grandeur when you're from the Midwest. You know what I mean? Like I found the coasts were more competitive. You know what I mean? Where it's where more music was happening.

Chicago was its own kind of private party. If you were in a band from Chicago, you were part of a community like immediately. And then everyone had really unique sounds. Yeah, everyone was different. Like you go all the way to the email. side, you go like Fall Out Boy, Rise Against, Alkaline Trio, you start naming Chicago bands, they are all different.

Yeah. But like everyone's like really, like, everybody was always really like chill, friendly, cool, calm. That's what it felt like to me. Yeah. He's got along with Chicago bands. Yeah, that's my experience with all those bands that you just mentioned too. Because I grew up with the Fall Out Boy guys as well.

Oh, cool. I played in a band with Pete, you know. Oh, you did? Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's cool. And Rising's first show ever was in a basement in the suburbs of Chicago, and the opening band was a band called Patterson, which would have a young Patrick Stump on the drums.

So it's all very kind of like... Patrick Stump is a musical freak. Yes. He's so musically talented. You know what's amazing about that band that he played in, too? Because I'm neighbors with his bass player now, or of his first band, is that he's a musical freak and he's so talented,

and he played drums in that band Patterson. I don't if he's told you this before. But the band was kind of like... small brown bike hot water music like three guys with kind of gruff voices singing yeah and then Patrick on the drums and then Patrick's like hey what if I sing you know and then he would sing and they're like no dude we're tough guys singing yeah you're like some soul bluesy soulful your voice is way too good to be singing and then like okay i'll just go back to playing drums and it was like it's so ironic that like here we were existing with this you know future insane talent

where's hot water music from gainsville florida Florida yeah yeah Yeah. I liked Hot Water music a lot. Yeah, one of my favorite bands. I really like them. They still make great music and great records. Yeah. Yeah. They're such an interesting band.

Yeah. You know, another band with like two singers, you know, that have like how those guys found each other. I don't know, but like they just, they go so well together. Lyrics, music. What other bands did you like? Oh, man. We probably liked a lot of the same bands. I mean, I grew up on like the Mount Rushmore of punk, like minor threat and Dead Kennedys and Black Flag and Descendants, all that stuff.

loved like jawbreaker. I loved jawbreaker. Yeah, Jawbreaker was a huge one. Just watching like skate videos and snowboard videos like Sam I Am, Jawbreaker happening. I love San I Am. were so great.

They were so good. Oh my gosh. I still listen to Sam I am sometimes. Whenever I listen to them, I'm like, why isn't this band as big as like the foo fighters? Like there's just such great riffs in there. Some of those records like Clumsy, you know, and I know they had like...

Climsy. I loved clumsy. Dude. Yeah, yeah. Cap size. I was just thinking of capsize. Like I, I, up to capsized.

That intro, I hate you still. Yeah, I imitate you. So good. That was, when we toured the manorize against, like, you know, as you know, like, the musical selection is important. On the trips, when you're driving in the van, like. Yeah. And back then we had like a CD thing that plugged into the cassette.

We had a binder full of CDs. Right. And like, we were passing around CDs. Like, that was important. It was important. It was a little bit of pressure because you're shooting your shot when you're putting that CD in. And all your guys were like, what is he going to listen to?

too, you know. Yeah. And so there were albums that we all agreed on. You know what I mean? And Sam I Am was definitely a band. We all agreed on. Oh, I love that record. Was a band we all agreed on, you know, like certainly,

Jawbreaker. I mean, and then later was stuff like refusing at the driving was big for me. Chicago was like, like that Midwest emo sound that's big now was like really, really actually happening like the mid-90s in Chicago with like cap and jazz and American football and stuff like that. Yeah.

Those bands were playing when they were playing for 50 people, but they were playing, you know, back then. Did you ever, listen to Bill to Spill? Yeah, like Bill to Spill. What about Promise Ring?

Yeah. The Promise Ring were like definitely happening in the Midwest because they were Wisconsin, like Madison. Yeah. Texas is the reason.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. That was all happening around that time. That was all that time. Obviously like, I just had Jim Atkins on from Jimmy.

We're all. We'll do that in August too. We're going to open up some of the Bleed American 25th anniversary shows in the UK. Awesome.

Yeah, yeah. So we'll do that in August before we do the Alquine Trio tour. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. Those guys are, I mean, I love that band. I mean, back in the day, I'm playing punk shows with Jimmy World with, like, my high school band.

You know, so watching that full circle is incredible. We've known them from around. He's always been really cool, really nice, really cool to sit with him. And, like, I've never gotten to spend that much time with him, like, in his chair. And, like, it just made me love the records even more. Like, I like all their records, but I went back to the records. I always do that either before. I have these conversations or after, I usually go into some deep dive and remember why I love a band

or getting to sit with someone like you is awesome because you get a sense of somebody and then you go back to their music and you hear it. It's a cool experience. It's my favorite thing about this show is I get a sense of someone. I go back to their music and I hear it differently. That's yeah. I find that when I tour with bands. It might be a band you're not that familiar with. You know what I mean? And then you tour with them and you're like, oh, I get these people, now I get their sound a little better. And like, you know, you mentioned like a spiritual cramp. We did a whole U.S. tour with them. And then...

That's a good match. It was awesome. In fact, we were on the U.S. tour while our agency was like, who are you guys taking to Europe? You have to answer these emails. Tell us who you're taking. And I remember we lost in the dressing room. We were like, wait, why don't we just take those guys? Because they're awesome.

And we ended up doing the same exact tour, actually. It was like Rise, L.S. Dunes. Oh, that's spiritual. Yes. And we took the same exact package to Europe. Had a blast. That was one of my favorite tours ever, just all cool people and cool bands. Great ticket.

Yes, I think so too. I think people were getting a great show. I mean, I imagine that we're all going to be opening for spiritual cramp like in another few years. I agree. I think their music is really good. Yeah. I felt that way about like this summer we're touring with Avenge Sevenfold. Yeah.

Which might sound like not strange because like we're not similar bands, but we've been friends forever. We've known before either one of us were like, Like back in the day. And they were one band that I met just as guys. Like we didn't, we was before either one of us had done a ton of touring or whatever. I just, I liked them.

Yeah. Personally. And then we always, and then we went on to both tour, have our careers, but never toured together and always said that would be really fun one day to tour. And we always talked about it. And then finally,

this past year, it's like the Papa Roach thing. We've talked to, same thing. We've always wanted to tour with Papa Roach. It's just hard to work it out. You know how it is. It doesn't always work.

Yeah. Everyone's married. All the stars have to align. All the stars have to align. And it finally did where we were with like Venge, we were like, hey, should we just go out this summer, just do it? And then we did. And I think it's going to be one of our best tours.

Oh yeah, I believe it. You guys are both bands that like belong in those big places. You know what I mean? It's funny because you were talking earlier about the punk scene. It's not a place where somebody walks in and they're like, I want to be in a stadium, you know? Right. But what's so funny, avenged are the exception to that rule. And I toured them like, you know, 25 years ago.

years ago and like a van. And I remember we were all playing, you know, rooms not much bigger than this room for like 150 kids and like vans or whatever. And I remember just talking to Matt and those guys and they're like, we want to be in stadiums. And it catches you off guard at first. You're like, I don't hear people from our world saying that. Dambs? Yeah. But then now I'm rewatching their band and I'm like, oh yeah. They're creating songs that are meant to be played in stadiums. And they've got their eye on that. And obviously they were right. You know what I mean? Because it's like And they still do. They still do it.

And they created something that's like, they had that vision, you know. And that was always something that I had a lot of respect for. Just watching a band with a real vision that wasn't relying on like radio and whatever else. They were like, we're going to create a bam in the same way that like Iron Maiden Slayer and Metallica take over the world without taking over billboard charts or radio. But they've now, but they've taken over the world in general. Avenge was like, we're going to take over the world like that. And it was like, to their credit they did. Well, what I learned a lot by just being friends and watching them from the outside, not being in the inside of the bubble with them, was a band that wasn't conflicted.

They did what they wanted. I see you guys the same way. I like to think that we got there. And I think that, like, most of our conflict was probably more like internal. But I always admired when I look like that he doesn't look like he's questioning what the fuck. He's just doing what the fuck he thinks he should do. And I learn a lot by watching people who approach things with like, this is what I'm going to do.

But I always felt they'll go play with Metallica. They'll go play with whoever and they're going to be avenged and they're not conflicted about. I think that they've always been that way. That's inspiring too to see that. There's bands that come from scenes that can be very pretentious, judgmental. That was certainly a scene that I came from in Chicago.

But also a scene that I would say like the fall boy guys came from as well. You know, so we were in the same scene. And at some point, you sort of just like cast that shit off and you're like, I'm done. I'm done. I'm done caring. Yeah, that's it. Fall Out Boy is being Fall Out Boy. Yeah.

And they're going to be Fall Out Boy every time. Yeah. And meanwhile, like, if cut to like 1995, you would have seen Pete and Andy in like vegan straight edge metal bands. You know what I mean? Yeah. We're judging each other about like the shoes we were wearing. You know what I mean? And like whether they were made in a sweatshop or not.

You know what I mean? And like, so they came from a world that was very. the teeth were very sharp in that world. And we came from that same world. That was your college. That was your, that was your, that was, you were cutting your teeth. Yeah, yeah. You were figuring out what you want to keep, what you don't want to keep, and going forward

and like, and then reality hits and you have to be you. Totally. And when that, your original community, when those teeth are so sharp, like, and you survive that, nobody else can hurt you or touch you. Like you don't know the school that I came from and what they threw at me. Yeah, yeah. And how I got out of it. And so the things you're throwing out of it.

So the things you're throwing at me now, like they're missing, dude. Like, you don't understand. Yeah, that's why I see what the band like Fall Boy. Like they're doing their own thing and it's, avenged doing their own thing. Yeah. Like, and it's inspiring.

But also I can see the ethos in those bands. Still there. Still there. Yeah. Yeah. The only other thing I want to bring up is the art project. Oh yeah. Because I feel like it's,

it's important. Yeah. You guys had the fans do, uh, do the artwork. Yeah, it was like, it was really simple. We were having like sort of a meeting about marketing like some new stuff. We were doing some of music.

And we had a lot of conversations about like, well, who has rises against? What has rises against? What do you guys want to like showcase? And similar to what we were talking about earlier, sometimes the best person to tell you about your band is like that person on the street. Yeah.

You get actually a real idea of like not how you see yourself but how someone who's digested your music either in full or someone who just has seen it, you get an actual perspective on how they see your band. Yeah, and I found those things far more authentic. Like, I'm too close to it. Yeah. I'm just creating and I'm hoping that it lands.

You know what I mean? And sometimes it lands in ways that are like, I didn't predict, but even fucking cooler. Yeah. It's like, whoa, I didn't think it would land like that. And that's when I think we turned to like the label and marketing. And we were like, well, stop asking us who our band is and what it means. you know, we can, I can tell you what I think, I ask the people who are actually like having

like a lived experience with this music and what it means to them, what's mean them over the years or what's meant to them over the years. And that's where the art project came in where like, let's invite people in to express what this band means to them, you know, and so we put them into music, where they interviewed them and they got to kind of tell the story of what the band is, which I thought was a far more authentic story than us just simply kind of projecting to you who are band is. you know. And I hope we do stuff like that in the future too

because I felt like it was really, like it went well. And I think that people resonate with it. And I think we learn about how the music is hitting people. And it also, no matter who you are, you have days where you wonder, is anybody hearing this? Yeah.

Is anybody listening to this? Is anybody even getting it, you know? Yes. And so to meet people like in real life that say, I'm listening and I get it. It's like, okay, I'm going to go back then to the woodshed and keep chopping, you know. I feel the same way about this show.

Every once in a while I'm like is anyone really listening I care about these conversations? I listen to this show by the way you do yeah I think you do a great job here I think these are great conversations if like someone's doing a press thing and they've done five podcasts but you did one of them I'm just going to some of years that's cool yeah yeah because I think they're great that makes me feel so good no it's for it's for real I really appreciate that well I think you've been on many sides of this yeah thing now you know and like you know and we're similar ages too and so I think that you have a unique perspective, but you're also not just like, oh, let's just chill the new album or whatever. You know, I mean, like, you're having deep conversations about, like, what it is to be an artist,

you know? Yeah. And the thing for me is like, you know, with art, we make the world sound better. We make the world look better. We make people think. We make people feel good about themselves. It's overtly, mostly positive. Right.

I don't get to stand on a stage with a degree. I didn't go to Harvard. I didn't go to Yale. I don't get to be taken seriously in lots of. rooms. I'm not a serious guy in plenty of rooms. But I gave my life to this. Yeah. And I respect and appreciate other people who have. Totally. And like so that's like this is the show like the core behind the show is something like that. Well, the fact that you're still curious about it too. Yeah. You don't need to be here in this room doing this. You know like you. I love it. Like you want to

do it. Like you're a point in your life where like you want to do it. Tell me how you did that. Yeah. I'm interested. And like that's something amazing when you can still be doing this and still be still want to know people's perspective, still want to learn. And then you're offering this, you're offering something to people like, like for this one now, it'll be for Raz Against fans

who to get a different perspective or just more perspective. People are hungry for more than just the song they just listen to. And they get to hear about a little bit how the inner workings of the band go. Or how does that guy think? Right.

Yeah. And then I would say most of the time they believe in you more or they can actually get, but it contextualizes and gives perspective. but just like you just said like sometimes you do something like does anyone fucking care man

you know what I mean like you do that with music with anything you're doing like I actually care about this so I'm gonna keep showing up but just I just wouldn't care like that's a good thing though

because it challenges why you're there yeah you have to be there because you believe in it and it's also important remember like no not everyone does care but they're not who you're talking to yeah yeah talk to people who do care you know not everyone

my dad worked a job where he was like behind a counter for a long time and he didn't always get along with all the customers and he realized one day not everyone's my customer. Right. You know what I mean? I'm not going to be out here just trying to make every single person happy and it's like yeah like when you when you learn that when it's like I'm not worried about every single

person out there. It's unrealistic. You can't live that way. It's overwhelming. There's always be more real estate to conquer if you are that band. You meet people who are the top of their fucking game and it's not enough. You know? And it's like How are you so unhappy, like filling a baseball stadium? It's like, because I want more.

Like, why didn't I fill two baseball stadiums or whatever? And it's like, that seems like a crazy way to live. So you're speaking to the people who care, who are enthusiastic about what you're doing. And that's so rewarding. It's more rewarding and focusing on those people who actually do care. Then there's a warning about people who don't care and are probably never going to care because you're not cut out for everybody. Yeah, it's like you're not on the same wavelength.

It's never. Yeah. And you don't have to be. Yeah, yeah. It's good, man. It's good. Absolutely. Thanks, Tim.

Hey, my pleasure. Thanks for coming. Oh yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Awesome. Thank you for listening to this episode of Artis Friendly. You can also watch the episodes on Spotify. Spotify premium users get no commercial breaks on my show.

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