Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Tyler Posey

Episode Date: May 24, 2023

This week, actor and musician Tyler Posey, who’s known for his solo work, former pop-punk bands, and role on Teen Wolf, joins Joel Madden on Artist Friendly. Posey, who’s been a fan of and making pop-punk music his entire life, is set to release his latest album, UNRAVEL, on May 26. The lead single “Lemon.” arrived earlier this year and also appeared in his most recent film Teen Wolf: The Movie. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠Spotify.⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? Welcome to artist-friendly. I'm Joel Madden. Today, I'm speaking with Tyler Posey. You know him from the TV show Teen Wolf. You know him from his bands and his new solo music that's coming out. Today we're going to be talking about all of it. So, Tyler, thanks. I don't want to bad times. I don't want to have bad. I love that. All right. I love that. You love that. Stoked, man. That's the mission, dude. Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, you know, I think everybody is always going through things that we're all going through, but we feel like we're going through it alone. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think also social media makes it easy to feel that way. Just kind of the way that things are nowadays, you kind of always want to advertise yourself

as like being this happy go lucky. Everything's fine. Yeah. And there is that version. Sure. We can all put that up. We can take the picture at the party. and show everyone what a good time we have,

but then we're not showing everyone what we felt like when we went home and we were there alone and we were, you know. So I think that a lot of the people listening I've found to this show are driven to grow. So they're looking for tools to have personal growth. They're maybe trying to achieve something. So personal success, whether it's their job or their dream, maybe it's music,

or they're actually struggling with something and they're looking for some to commiserate with people that I think they relate to. And I always find that when we share our experience and things, like you said, from social media, I feel like things are put into a filter that makes it look like, there's these people over here that I've had all success and everything's perfect.

And there's us over here who are, you know, we haven't figured it out. The truth is that none of us have figured it out. Yeah, absolutely. The only way we do figure it out is getting to the different stages of our life. So I'm 44. I've figured a few more things out maybe than you have. Probably. And maybe in your young life and experience, you figured some things out.

That's someone who maybe hasn't had the experience you've had. So sharing, I think, is always how we all help each other, bro. Dude, I love that. That's why I feel like whenever I'm looking for my purpose over the years, that usually is what it comes down to is me wanting to be there for others. And so that's why I felt like, first of all, dude, I'm really happy to be here. I'm stoked, you're here. I didn't even say welcome, but I'm so happy you're here.

I am like over the moon, freaking out. Love you, love the band. Oh, thank you. super inspired me from day one. And we've never got to meet, have we? No, I don't think so. No, we've maybe been in the same room once or twice. You've been around the scene for a long, long time.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, in the actual scene, I don't know, well over 10 years, but I started playing in pop punk bands when I was like 11 and 12. I was filming a TV show in Canada when I was like eight years old. Okay. And there was this great story called HMV. It was all CDs, all records.

Yeah, yeah, I know I loved that store so much. Are you Canadian? I'm not. Where are you from? I'm from here. I was born and raised in Cali. Oh, wow. Santa Monica.

Cool. But they had a plethora of Blinklin 82 albums. And so I, that was, I was the only kid on this show. And so Blink quickly became my only friends. Yeah. You know what I mean? Over in Canada. And it was the first time I, so I've been acting since I was a kid and I never really felt

like I fit in because there was a, sometimes there's a stick. of actors being a little bit too, you know, into their own shit. Yeah, totally. And I saw it happening when I was a kid from the people that I was working with. And I was like, I don't want to be like that, but I felt a little out of place. And so blink and punk was the first time where I really felt like I found something that I could really relate to and connect with. So, yeah, so this has been my life since I was really young.

Yeah, I can tell. I've seen you around for over a decade. Right. And always recognize you as, it's interesting, too, because I knew about you from music first. Oh, cool. And I always kind of saw you as a character in the scene. You know, I knew you were doing, you know, you had bands. And then obviously, you had the success with your show, which probably brings a whole host of things for you to work out.

Yeah, man. Wild. Because I think it's interesting how no matter what, if we're creative people, we never want people to know us as the thing we made yesterday. We want them to know us as the thing we're making today. Sure, yeah, yeah. I can relate to that a little bit, definitely. I tend to, because right now I'm an interesting position where I did this TV show, Teen Wolf, from 18 to 25. Hugely successful.

Yeah, it was like, I didn't expect it to be like that, but loved it and, and appreciated it so much. And then we took like a five-year gap and then just recently did the movie. Right. So I'm doing what you're talking about, where I'm re-sort of living an old, creative thing that I did. Yeah. But I tend to, I love that. I think I'm always, because I've been around a bunch of artists, actors, musicians who want to sort of leave the past behind and keep growing and elevating. and there is absolutely something to that, and I do do that with my work, but I also love sort of revisiting the past.

And there's something about that where I don't really, I learn from it. I don't judge myself. I'm not too hard on myself when I'm watching the shit that I was in. How old are you? I'm 31. Oh, my God, that's a very young age to get there because I feel like I just got there. Nice. I feel like I had to work a bunch of shit out.

And I got to a place where, like, I love the past. Right, good. I love what we did. Yeah. and feel like, I feel like I embrace it now in a way that I maybe didn't for a while. I feel like maybe I rejected it a while. I get it. So I kind of relate to that when I was a kid and I just started acting, I was like super

embarrassed by it. Right. I don't know why. I guess you would have that experience. When you started acting really young. Yeah, it was like six. Okay. So by the time you're 16, you're probably like looking.

back on all of that. I was getting me fun of a little bit. I wanted to go to normal school. I was homeschooled a lot and I wanted to like, you know. And they're like, oh, there's the actor. Yeah, exactly. So I was like, fuck that. I'm going to school pot.

I'm going to skateboard. I'm going to be in a punk band, you know. And I was a little bit. But by the time I turned 17, like a year later, I was like, this is a dope career. I don't want to ruin it. I want to get back into it. And then Teen Wolf quickly, like, happened right after that. That's crazy to me to think, like, that by the time you're 16,

17, you've already had this much life experience. That's your, that's crazy to me. Yeah, yeah, it was a trip. And then so that, I grew up in a small town, Santa Clarita, which is like just north of here. I know Santa Clarita well. Yeah, we play baseball out there. My son plays baseball. We go out there all the time.

Yeah, it's a huge sports town. Yeah. My brother was a big sport, baseball kid. But it was such a small town, and I was so far removed from the kids, my friends. Yeah. I didn't fit in as an actor and I also didn't feel like I fit in as a normal kid because I had a career. I was traveling the world already and my friends weren't and sometimes they would pick on me or they just didn't understand what I was doing. And so it was this weird sort of like, where the fuck do I fit in?

Right. There's no one like actually acknowledging the real reality of it, which is its work. Either they're on this side going, wow, that must be amazing to travel the world. Yeah, it is. But it's also really hard and lonely. in some spots. Yeah. And then on the other side, they're like, where are you from?

What do you mean you haven't been here yet? And you're like, well, I'm only 15. I haven't been to. Like, it's weird how when you can't, you're over here, there's Hollywood, which is, by the way, the word Hollywood, it's used to sum up the business or whatever. The place is actually a pretty grimy place. Oh, it's horrible. But the word we use to sum up a lot of things.

And sometimes it's good and sometimes it's bad. Sometimes we use Hollywood in a good way. Yeah, sure. Sometimes we use it in a bad way. Like, those out-of-touch people. They're all just people working in a particular business. And some of them are out of touch, and some of them are the most in-touch amazing people you love for me. And just like, to me, just like the world, we get these labels on things and everyone gets an idea of us because of that label.

And so you're sitting in the middle of both sides, which at that age is probably pretty confusing. It was weird, yeah, definitely. But honestly, music is where I really found my home. I was going to Warp Tour. Like my first experience of Warp Tour, I was like 14 with my best friend at the time. And he played bass. I played guitar and we were Mark and Tom. Yeah.

Like whenever we jammed, he was Mark, I was Tom. I love the boomer back there. Oh, yeah, yeah. Tom Boomer. I got all my toys back here. Yeah. Yeah. Same.

I've got like this little Tom Stratocaster, this little tiny guy. And I walked into Warp Tour. We were walking through the parking lot in Ventura, and this dude was like, you guys want a beer? He was like 20-year-old or something. I was like, yeah, I'm like 14. He tosses me a beer. And he was like, you got to chug it, dude. And I was like, I'd start chugging it.

And he's like, grab your nuts. So I'm like grabbing my nuts, chugging a beer at 14. And that was like, I was like, I feel like I'm home finally. Yeah. I just felt like, I don't know. I felt like I belonged a little bit, you know. And then that just kept going and starting bands. It was cool.

It was, it was, it was, it was really nice to have that amid amongst the feeling left out in like pretty much every avenue I was in, you know. That's, that's, that's, that's the great thing about our kind of music. Right. Yeah. It really is. Everybody's welcome, you know. Yeah, definitely, man.

I could see how you would need that. Are you close to your parents? I am, yeah, yeah. I'm really close to my mom passed away like eight years ago. Oh, man. I'm sorry. It's been gnarly. And once you started talking about kind of like getting deep,

and I was like, oh, this is a cool, I could definitely, you know, explore this a little bit in this side of my life. And there was a silver lining was that the rest of my family, my dad, my brothers, and I got really, really, really close. Right. Not that we weren't before, but it really brought us together. And I've heard stories where that kind of thing can kind of separate a family and sort of demolish it.

Yeah. And it did in a couple of ways. Like my mom was the glue that held her side of the family together. And so once she died, we didn't lose touch with that side of the family, but there's definitely a major separation there. I think it's pretty deep. I think it can go to like some animosity. And it's just there's a lot of unhatched feelings there that we haven't really

discussed as a group or anything like that. Yeah, it's tough to work that out because I think a lot of people don't know how to process how they feel. Yeah. And I think when you have someone that sounds like they were the, you know, if you're the glue, it sounds like that's the person that's helping everyone come along. That's what it was for sure. Yeah, I think a lot of them don't really know how to process their feelings.

That's tough. And that's tough. And that's where I think families break down as we don't have toolboxes to, you know, to stop and sit at the table together and all be right. Right, right, totally. To sit at the table and go, this is how I feel. This is my experience. This is how that made me feel. And for the other, for all the family members to sit at, I always say this to my family to my band, to anyone.

that I have a relationship with is we're all at this table. We all have equity here and how you feel isn't wrong. I may, you may, if you come to understand what I thought and what I, what I think and how I feel, what my experience was, and you can try and understand that. And I can try and understand your experience and how you feel. We can always, I really believe we can always stay at the table and start to talk about other things. Yeah, that's the ideal, for sure. It's tough. It's tough to do that.

It's a therapeutic exercise. Yeah. Not everyone has to kind of sign up for it. Yeah, 100%. It's tough because some people just, it's too painful for them to look at that. And a lot of times it's personal. That's the other thing too is like if we're not developing on our personal growth and we're not growing, because there's layers of pain we have to get through, right?

The truth is painful sometimes. Absolutely. So I think with families, it can be really hard to work through all those layers. And a lot of times it's just deep shit that's generational. It's back a generation or two that was never worked out. 100%. And then these moments happen like you and your dad and your, how many? I have two brothers.

Two brothers. Okay. So I have two brothers too. That's cool. Are you in the middle? I am the middle. Nice, me too. Yeah.

Well, I have, so I have a younger sister and my twin brother who's technically older than me. Right, right, right. And then my older brother. So we're in the middle. Nice. We went through a lot together too. And I think we inherently learned how to communicate with one another because we had to survive together. And so we are super tight and we talk about everything.

We overshare, you know, like I'm an oversharer. I think my wife gets tired sometimes where I'm like, okay, let's talk about this. How did that make you feel? And she's like, I don't want to stop. But it's okay because I think that that is just who I am. You know, I want to heal. I want to grow.

I want to. And I think it comes from having a pretty traumatic childhood. And then going into the world thinking like if I get successful, it all goes away and everything's better. If I can just make this much money, if I can just do this much. And then you get to the moment or the day when you get that success you thought you wanted. And it does nothing for it. Yeah, definitely.

Does nothing for the self-esteem. If anything, it inflates it in a terrible way. And then you start doing terrible stuff. So I think that like what I learned was if we don't process how we feel what our experience was. and also what each other's experience was. And if we don't communicate and help each other through, the relationships don't grow. Sure, of course.

And relationships are living organic things that have to grow together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it sounds like when faced with this devastating loss, you and your brothers and your dad grew together. We did, definitely, man. And there was, there was, like, moments of, like, where I, I instinctually felt what you were just talking about. And this needs, we can't get stuck here. We need to.

And I started with little things like, just telling my pops that I loved him all the time. Yeah, yeah. And it's not that we didn't say that before, but we kind of didn't, you know. You don't remember to sometimes. Yeah. And we're not like, you know, stone cold, hard-ass dudes. We are that. But.

You look pretty tough, dude. Just ride motorcycles. Yeah. That's the toughest part. Like a nice, tough guy. Yeah, definitely.

And we, and my dad's super tough and always, not like a bad, not like a hard ass to us. He was always so sweet to us. He's just like, he can, he can like throw down.

And I was always really cool to watch that. And so we were never that sensitive with each other. But like, I felt this. I'm like, we need to sort of, you know, start being really open with our feelings

because we're losing the only part of us that that was that. My mom was like the most emotional, cutest person ever and would get this stuff out of us. I was like, this has to, we have to carry this on somehow. And so I started with little things like that. Like, I love you, man.

Like, tell him all the time. And it wasn't awkward or anything. He would tell me back. And then that just kept growing and growing and growing. And now we're these very sort of openly emotional vocal people around each other. That's awesome. It's cool. It's really nice.

It needed to happen. Or else it was going to, you know, there was going to be a divide like you were talking about if you don't nurture a relationship. I feel like me and my brother are really sensitive too. We share. We tell each other. We love all the time. Like we say, I love you.

You want to call them right now? I mean, to be fair, we call each other at the end of every day. It's great, dude. We catch up. And we're like, all right, love you, man. Call you tomorrow when I wake up. Like one of the first calls. I mean, it's the first call I make every day.

Where it happens, it just depends on, like, what's going on with my kids and his kids. kids and everything. But like we have that relationship and I think it's really important you have that relationship with someone. I mean, there's people out there listening probably that don't have that relationship with their parents. I don't know why it's so painful sometimes for families to tell each other how they feel. Yeah, I don't know. I, uh, because it was, there was a little bit of like anxiety around it before I really started like doing it. And it is weird. It is weird. It's like, yeah, I don't know what the psychology is behind it, but it was definitely there. Yeah.

But you just kind of have to rip the band-aid off. And if you're the one who instinctually feels like it, sometimes they do feel, they feel like they need to start, you know, being more sensitive and emotional around you. But there's maybe they're more old school and they're afraid to do it. Take the, you know, initiative and like just rip the band-it off and go, I love you. Yeah. Like to ask someone for something you need. Right. Right.

Like to say, like, I feel anxious. that's again like I had this relationship with my brother if I feel anxious about something I tell him like I feel kind of nervous about this right and he's like oh dude you got this come on man like blah blah blah but like that's who we are to each other like you need that person I think you need that person I mean some people maybe they've they've they've learned how to survive completely on their own and I understand that but god damn like I feel like everybody's got to have that one person that they can be completely vulnerable with and be like hey man Man, how do I look?

Yeah. This outfit okay? You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. Like, whatever it is that you're, you're, everyone has their thing. Like, I think it's important that you have like your, your, your, your, your person that's. Super important. Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. Because there's definitely something to, you know, handling things on your own and, and being that independent person. But you break every time on then. It's, it's, you know, you need something there. Also, probably, like, acting is such a self. self-conscious art form. Yeah, dude.

You have to really be in touch with like, because you're literally making expressions in front of the camera to convey emotion. You have to think about how you look, how you sound. Yeah. And for the most part,

I'm pretty like forgiving with that. Yeah. You know, I don't, I've tried my artist over the years to not get wrapped up in that. Right. I don't want to be victim to having to do a take again because I didn't like how my hair looked in this service shot.

You let it go. I do my best to let shit go. But there's still moments where like I was just auditioning for this role and I got really close and I didn't get it. And I just was like, I fucking suck, dude. Yeah. That too has got to be pretty hard on the self-esteem. It's a trip.

You're going and sitting in front of a table of people. Yeah. Yeah. And then some of them are nicer than others. Some rooms are warmer. Some are colder. I'm sure the experience is just like anything. But like you go there and we're all looking and judging you now, go ahead, do your best.

And then ultimately, I think when rules are being decided, it's what they see. It's not you. Exactly. Right. Because you obviously have the stuff to act. Yeah. Sometimes you convince yourself that you don't though. It's so bizarre because I'm super confident with what I do.

Right. But then in moments like that, I get like, and I'm pretty emotional. so maybe that's the part of it. But I get, I'm like, I have to quit. Like, I fucking suck. Yeah. I don't know, man. It's a whirlwind.

It's weird. And I just got out of that. And then I justified it with like, maybe I'm not ready for that, for that role again yet. You know, like maybe I want to get better with like some habits that I have. Like with spending money. Like I, we were just talking before. I love motorcycles. Yeah.

And every time I get like a nice paycheck, I'm like, I'm going to buy a few motorcycles. Buy another motorcycle. But I got to start saving. I want to start a family at some point. And I want to start saving up. And so I was like, maybe I need to develop better habits at home with my money, cleaning all the time. Like I want to make myself proud. And at this point, I'm getting there for sure.

I mean, dude. But you're young and you've had great success. I realize now looking back after working on myself, I was just working out and making sense of the first 21 years of my life on all those records. I was just making sense of all of it. And I spent my 20s probably just subconsciously letting out all the trauma. And then I spent my 30s getting my shit together, working on myself, working on having better habits, learning how to manage our real life. Because I think we go into the entertainment side of things.

There's a lot of escapism. There's a lot of fantasy. The fantasy is if I go there, everything's better, and I don't have to ever be a real person again and deal with anything. And then you get to kind of your 30s and you realize like, that's not true. Right. Like, I got to figure this out. It's kind of crazy how it's very parallel. Yeah, it's a trip, dude.

Yeah. Yeah. My 20s, my mom died when I was 23. And so a lot of it was feeling like I can deal with it. Like, I'm strong enough to like, yeah, I'm. I can talk about this. I'm fine. I'm okay,

but then not being okay at the same time, like when I'm really fucked. And that was a big pothead before she died. And then that sort of like transitioned into other stuff. Right. You know, and so I'm like, I'm sober now.

And so that's, that's one of the things that I. So you were, you were drinking, doing drugs, whatever in your 20s? Likely you were medicating all that shit. Yeah,

definitely. That's not easy. No, no. It was, It was weird. It was weird to like wake up one morning and being like, wow, I'm totally an addict. Right.

Didn't feel good. It felt, it felt, it felt really out of control and big. Right. Holy shit, I really can't slow down. I'm like 130 pounds and I'm like 170 now or 180 or something. Yeah. It's like it was a big deal. You're super fit.

So I was, I wasn't for a little while. I was super fucking skinny. Okay. And unhealthy. And then I got. fat. Not fat, but it was like... Because I go the opposite direction of skinny when I'm unhealthy, but... Well, I was doing a bunch of cocaine.

Okay, okay. Well, I'll do it. Yeah, dude, it was like all day, all night. I didn't eat. I didn't sleep for like two years. Right. It was, uh, it was brutal. It was scary. It was super scary. I thought I was dying a bunch of times and I just couldn't stop.

And so that was like the weirdest part. And so I was like, I got to have a little bit of help. And so once I stopped... doing everything, no weed, no anything, I just ate a bunch. And so I got like this little sort of this belly for the first time ever. The food is always there for me. Oh, it's great. I love it.

I still a huge fan of it. Yeah, yeah. But it's good to be healthy. It's good to be. Yeah. That's where I'm at right now. Yeah, you seem super healthy. Definitely.

Yeah, trying to eat healthier. I'm going to the gym for the first time. I got a gym membership in January for the first time in like 10 years. Do you think the drugs and alcohol was a direct, reaction to losing your mom. I'm gonna'amena. And, like my music, my my hair can't be able to

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per year per day in Shopify.es Barre Records. It's hard to say because I was a huge pothead before and I experimented all throughout high school and I was always sort of into that stuff experimenting.

Right, you dabbled. I dabbled, definitely. But then I like, before, it's weird, I have, right before my mom died, I said to myself, or at least I had this premonition where I was like,

Like if she dies, I'm not going to be okay. Like, I'm going to be pretty fucked. It was scary. It was scary to feel that because I'm so, I don't know how to put it strong. I don't know if that's the right word. But like, I've been doing, I've been traveling the world since I was a kid. I feel, I feel pretty like together. You have control.

Yeah. And I have like good head on my shoulders. And so to have that feeling for the first time of like, I'm not going to be okay, it was really weird. Yeah. And then when she did die, I was trying to mask it with like, I'm fine. Everything's okay. I can do this.

but then it just started declining more and more and more my mental health and where were you at that stage in your career like where were you at yeah so we were I think on the third season of Teen Wolf which is kind of peak right yeah it was peak for the popularity of the show right right so it's like the boiling point a moment so you're also dealing with that so that was I don't know if that helped or anything but I was also like dealing with

pretty intense fame for the first time I'm gonna go ahead and probably guess it didn't help no no it It was a trip, man. Fame is a fucking weird thing because everyone looks at it like such a good thing. There are certain things about it that can be good. But the truth of the matter is it's a horrible thing that you have to manage the entire time you're dealing with it because it spins out of your control. And it's just a fucking crazy weird thing. I think that people that respond to it like, fuck you.

I'm not famous. That's the one side of the response to it. And then there's the other side of the response to it where people dive all the way in. They go off the deep end. It's not, both are wrong. When you have, in my opinion, from my experience, I think in being around a lot of different people

that have had different kinds of fame, I found that the people that I admire are the ones who learn to manage it kind of in the middle. Like the weather. They manage it with some real understanding of what it is. And they don't seem to like it or hate it. They just manage it.

I've found that I've seen a few people that navigate it like that. And I go, wow, that's a person who's very, it feels like they just have a really great understanding and a way of processing. Because you get swept. It's a little wild. You get swept up in different directions. But it doesn't make anything easier. Definitely not. It just magnifies everything.

It was kind of a distraction for what was going on, which was what it was. I don't know. It didn't make it easier or not. But I was like, okay, I have this show. I have the success to kind of focus on and grieve later. Right. You know, and so I think like the drugs and all that when I really hit. I hit it hard.

I was like, that's when I was grieving, I guess. Yeah. I don't know. I still am though. I just started reading this book. Sorry to digress a little bit. I like, go please. There's this book called Crying in H-Mart.

Have you heard of it? No. You heard of Japanese breakfast? Yes. It's this dope band and the singer wrote this book about her mom dying. And the, fucking, the parallels of this book to my life is really, really, really, really intense. Wow. So much of how her mom died.

Her mom died. Her family was very much like how we processed it and how it happened with me. And it's the first time in a long time where I'm like, I'm reading this book in every other paragraph. I have to like stop and just fucking just break down. And I haven't done that in a long time. And I felt like I've needed that. You got to do that, dude. I couldn't.

So, all right. So here's a little backstory. So right before my mom died, I was engaged. I was really young. I was like 20 years old. and when we broke up, I didn't really know why we did. I just know if it didn't feel right. You were too young, dude.

That's why I was saying now. It's too young. Definitely, definitely too young. But the reason why I proposed was because I had gotten my mom's diagnosis a few years earlier. And subconsciously, I was like, I want her to be around for a family, for a wedding, for all that. I didn't know that, though. I was too young to sort of process that. That's really sweet, though.

Yeah, definitely. But also, like, unnecessary. Didn't need to happen. Right. I wish I had known what I was going through to not go through with any of that stuff. You couldn't have, dude. You're too young. Yeah, too young for all of it.

Yeah, too young to even make sense of it. Yeah. And so I lost that safety net of my fiancé of being the person that I could break down to and feel vulnerable around, comfortable. And then I lost my mom who was the other person that you could do that with. So I was like, what the fuck do I do? Who do I cry to? I didn't want to do it in front of my friends. I was kind of embarrassed, even though I know they would have been down.

I just was like, I can't do it. And so having that feeling around my friends, I sort of transcended into being alone. And like I couldn't do it alone. I could feel the triggers of it wanting to resurface. And then I just got so good at choking it down that like even if I were alone, I would just stop. And then I couldn't find that trigger again because I knew I needed it. I know even till this day, I'm like, I need to let it out.

And in this book is. I'll do. Yeah, yeah, 100%. But then that then comes in. I'm going to venture to say you're a little bit of a perfectionist, too. Sometimes. Or you're like a heart on yourself. Yeah, definitely hard of myself.

Definitely hard on myself. You hold yourself to a high standard of, you know, of the things that you think you should be. 100%. But I'm also like a realistic person. And so I try not to beat myself up over certain things. But there are certain things where I'm like, I really fucking nail myself on. Yeah. I'll bet.

Yeah. even in your latest song Don't mind me Yeah don't mind me I hear that That's what I hear when I listen to the song I'm like You're working out a bunch of shit in the song

And it's really it's interesting It struck me It really struck me Cool I thought it was like Interesting Because I feel the same way About myself

I'm very hard of myself I am my I always have to remind myself If anyone else was talking to you like this Yes I do that You would fucking kick him out of the room and never talk to him again. You know what I mean?

100% yeah. He'd be gone. He'd be like, get the fuck out of here. Who are you talking to? Yeah, I think my therapist told me that one time. You know what I mean? It's real. I think I learned that from my therapist who I've been seeing for 10 years and it's a game

changer. But that's the thing that I always have to tell myself sometimes when I'm in that mode because I'm such a killer sometimes when I want to achieve something, which is a good thing, super driven. And me and my brother have always kind of been a team like that. We're like, let's go do that. All right. Let's go.

But then while I'm doing it, even if I'm like working out, like, sounds stupid, but like lifting weights or something. In my head, I might be saying the fucking meanest shit to myself. And I have to like catch it. You have to catch it. If you don't, I could go the whole hour and not catch it. That's the fucked up thing. is I have to make a practice of catching how I talk to myself.

Totally. Because that's, I keep no one around me that talks negative to me. Yeah. Everyone that I am around, all my friends, we have a very, what I would call open, therapeutic relationship on how we support one another, but also how we give each other feedback. We have a really, there is feedback. Feedback's important.

So it's because you could say, I could say, what I just said and someone listening could go, well, then what? You don't want to hear anyone tell you when you're wrong? That's not it. Feedback is important. It's how we deliver feedback, right? That I've learned is the right way. Sure. Yeah, because it could close you off. But to yourself, it's just a negative. It's the voice that came from someone somewhere when I was little. I have a few suspicions. I don't feel like sharing. And it's funny because here I share a lot of stuff.

Some stuff I am not ready to share yet. You know what I mean? This show I always end up talking about some stuff. And I'll leave out one detail because I'm like not ready to share that yet. Same. We'll get there. I got that too. But the feedback system's important.

And that's another part what I think of a really healthy relationship. Yeah, totally. Like, how do we give each other feedback? Yeah. And when do we do that? But what you said, too, is like, how do you give the feedback, the way that you say it? Because sometimes, like, for me, like, I'm all for that too. Like, I want that type of relationship, whether I was with my friends or my partner.

And sometimes if the feedback comes from, like, how do I say it, like a negative feeling place, I'm like, I'm like, I'm not going to listen to you like that. No way, dude. Then I have to really like, I have to be like, okay, all right, wait, it's coming from a good place. It's just being said weird. I'm like, maybe next time when you say that, maybe it could be a little gentle, or softer or something. Yeah. It's what you're implying.

Yeah. When you ask me that question, what are you implying? Right? We also need to stop and tell someone like, yo, when you ask me so blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What you're really implying is what kind of asshole are you? Which kind of stupid are you? And that makes me feel bad. Right.

So I know you didn't. I'm assuming you didn't mean it. because I think you like me. I think we're friends. But it feels like you're implying something. And I'd rather you ask me, I'd rather you give me feedback. Maybe I hurt your feelings. Maybe I made you feel bad.

But tell me that. Like give me feedback. But like let's not, those relationships that families always have. If you notice, like, they're always implying, we're always implying stuff to each other because we don't know how to just say, I want you to love me or tell me you love me more or be nicer to me or. I feel like this. So we end up in these edgy family conversations around the table where we're all feeling

implied. So I always try to break that down. With my family, for sure, we don't have that. Good. Because we always go, what's explicit and what's implicit. And we got to always be conscious of what we're implying and if we need to be explicit about something or not. But like, I always think it's interesting, especially.

around, you know, loss. You know, we went through loss, me and my brothers and sisters. We had a really positive grieving experience, and it was interesting because, like, I think when you lose a parent, no matter how good the relationship was, no matter how complicated it was, there's something deep in your soul that that person you're connected to. I think that like the grieving of a parent is a different thing. It's a different, it's a whole different thing. And I think that it takes years.

It took me maybe two years to even get to it really being real, a real, like it's, it's, I think the connection that you have. And I think that like, and what are you grieving for? Some people are grieving for the parent that loved them, that took care of them. Some people are grieving for the relationship that never was. Yeah, totally. You know? And I think that like, it's okay to say, I always dreamed I'd have a relationship like this, but I didn't.

And I'm grieving for that. Yeah, that's a tough one. I do that. Yeah. Because I was so young. I was like, I want her to know the fucking dude that I am now, the man, you know, and I want to be buddies with her. and absolutely.

And that's a grieving process that will, that will be, it's, it's kind of a club you're in. You know, I'm sure you relate to a lot of people that have like lost parents. But it's a piece of you that will, that you'll always have to learn how to live with

and grieve for a little bit each time you have a new phase in your life. Yeah. You know, marriage kids. Or your kids are growing up. Like my kids are growing up. And, and, you know, know, you grieve for the things you, you had maybe had this, this dream of that this is what

it's going to be like when, you know, and I think, I think people need to be easy on themselves and tell themselves that they should, that it's okay to feel that way, that sometimes we have to power through things all the time. We got to go to work, show up, turn on, do the thing, power through. But there is. is a deep sadness we have when we lose stuff, when we have a loss, right? And there's also people out there that haven't lost the parent. They just never were, they never had them. Right.

And there's a deep loss there. And I think it's like being able to sit with that and say, yeah, and just accept it and not power through it all the time. Right. because it leaves us with little quirks that can get, it can get a little tricky if you start medicating with stuff because you're not, you're not, you don't want to accept how much pain you're in. So you just go out and you take, I mean, for me, when I, when I was dealing, you know, I found in my 20s when I was dealing with stuff that I didn't even know I was dealing with, I would go, I'd go out. And I would be the fun guy that was, you know, I would go all

the way, you know. Never got into drugs, thankfully, I was never, I was always terrified of drugs. I was always terrified of drugs. Good. I was scared to. They're horrible. But the, on the other side of that, the reason I was terrified, it's got tons of anxiety. I was terrified of everything. Yeah. The drugs were on the long list. So some of the stuff, I shouldn't have been terrified up. So it's like there, there's always like a way to something we need to work through and grow on. And some people end up on this side of the spectrum. Right. People end up on that side. I think it's good for me. Like, I've, I've lived both.

You know, I was always the, this quote unquote, strong person. Like, when all that shit was going down, I was like, I'm going to remain strong. I'm going to be level-headed, all this. And then there was like this little voice inside me that was like, you need to experience this. You need to have this rock bottom, this major downfall. Right. And I was like, are you sure this little voice? I was like, I don't know, dude.

Like, it sounds pretty fucking gnarly. But I was, for some reason, I needed it. Yeah. And now, and I think maybe it was because now I'm at a better place than I was before any of that shit happened, you know. So it's sometimes you need to go through that to kind of come out better. Yeah. It's a weird, it's a weird thing.

I'm not saying be realistic, but be realistic. You know what I mean? Like, if we don't know where we are right now, we can't take a, step forward to get further. And I think what we, what I think in my 20s I did was escape reality. And in my 30s, I got back to reality because I want to be grounded. I want to understand where I'm really at. Like if I lie to myself and say that this isn't true and it is true, then I can't make any decision around that thing that helps. And so likely it's the same thing. It sounds like like it's it's part of learning it's part of growing up i think it's part of like like having

you know a real life yeah definitely man there's a there's a value to the lifestyle choices there's a value to the things that you can actually you are in control of so like again i always think about while we're having these conversations who's listening and what are they getting because i want people to take away something that makes them feel better not worse right yeah do Totally. And I think that most of the things we can do to make ourselves better are in our control. We can actually do we can do something healthy for our body, something healthy for our mind, something that, you know. So I think it's interesting how I always find that, that, again, we've never met.

Certainly I've been aware of you. And like I said, I think we've been in probably a bunch of the same rooms. and have lots of people probably between us, mutual friends and stuff, have only ever heard really nice things about you, which is a really cool thing too when you think about, like, who you are in the world and how you treat people. You hope that people walk away with a good. I mean, I do.

And likewise, dude. You know, I've admired you since I was like a sperm in my dad's. I was conceived. track seven on your third album I'm just kidding Say anything It was my favorite song Well yeah dude

That's an old jam man I love it That whole album is so fucking good So where So where with your music Because you've been doing it a long time Where do you see that going What do you like is it

It's a trip man Because like I have two different sort of careers Yeah You know and And the fact that my music Even got to the point Where it is right now

I'm like sort of like it's super cool it's really cool I'm blown away by it and and I I don't know

I okay so I got with John Feldman in his label for a little bit and I never was my first label I'd ever been on

and everything else was independent up until that point and and now you're independent again I'm independent again cool

I'm independent too nice and it's sort of it put a lot of without him trying to, just the idea of being on a label having to sort of perform and make another sort of entity happy, it puts some pressure on me of like, what do I want to do with this career? Like, I've just been having so much fun up until this point. I got to play Warp Tour. I playing shows, starting bands, writing, being creative. Do you like making music better

or playing shows better or you like them both? I like them both, definitely. But there's something about creating music that is just, it's my, it's the best fucking thing. thing. Even at my house, like, I, I've been, like, recording myself since I was 12 on, like, a little track recorder started with, or a track. And then it graduated to, like, Pro Tools and Logic. And just at my house, just, like, being alone, creating music, it's just, there's, I fucking love it so much, dude, it's so much fun. The best. It really is. Best feeling in the world when you finish the song.

Oh, so good, do you listen to it. And you're like, um, but then, like, uh, and I also love performing, too. There's another added pressure to that where I, you know, the nerves, was the anxiousness coming to play and all that. Yeah, I always had anxiety. Yeah, it's a little anxious. And then halfway through the first song, you're like, oh, this is why I do it. This is fucking fun. At least for me, that's my experience.

Yeah, it's fun. Once you get that, by the time we get to the first chorus of the first song in the set, I'm good. But the days leading up to the show, like I told you, we played at my little sister-in-law's wedding. I was so nervous. We only did a handful of songs. It was the best kind of set. Just like bang, bang, bang.

Just hit five songs. And it was the best crowd. It was like all people who love you and a bunch of people who love each other. Best kind of show. In fact, one of the best shows on my life. Because it was a room full of people that loved each other. And it was like your dream show. Like it was almost like, I don't know.

It's like playing a bar full of all. all your family and friends who know all the words and are all excited that you're, it was the best feeling of any show. Incredible, but I was so nervous. Yeah, yeah, totally. Leading up for the days leading up to the show, because that's just how I am before I perform. Yeah, dude. I know, I'm just nervous.

Yeah. Anxious. Yeah, yeah. Is it because you wanted to, what? It wanted to go well. What if, what if I, some of our songs is really high parts and I haven't sang in four years and I just kind of, you know, it's different than in the studio

because you only get to do it once live. Like you, what if I forget the word? I don't know, I was just thinking about everything. Everything, yeah. What if the stuff does it? What if the gear isn't? We had all, of course, all the things, everything went fine, but like I'm just anxious.

That's what goes through, I think everyone's head before a show. For me, that's the exact same thing. Yeah, you're like, what if no one cares? Yeah, yeah. What if they all think I'm stupid? Like, you know what I mean? Like the dumbest little things that you would maybe think that you'd never think.

I think all of it. I'm like, what if I just look stupid up there and I just don't deliver? What if I don't express how much I love them enough? What if I don't know what to say between songs? Like, all of it. Always. Yeah, yeah. 20, how many years?

26, 27 years, whatever. Same. Never changed. When we first started, I would play the first three shows we did. I started the show with my back to the small, it was basement shows and little FOP lodges to the crowd because I was so nervous about people looking at me. And I think I still have like that in me. I think it's just before the show. I'm just nervous as hell.

I was like, how's this going to go. It doesn't matter how big the show is, how little the show is. It's just like always going to. I think it's just going to be a part of it. who I am. Like, and maybe part of what makes me perform, uh, because we're good live, which is crazy because like, we are,

we're really good life. We're tight. We put on a good show. But like, I'm nervous all the way up until we get to that first chorus and then it all just. But then it's so relieving. Yeah. You know,

it's like if you, if you were just like, all, we're going to go play a show and you weren't nervous at all. And then you get off the stage. You're like, it's just like this level sort of, but like,

the nervousness creates this, this reward after, like, during when it goes away, just riding this high. So I think it's actually a cool thing. Yeah. You know, for me, I'm always like, I'm going to fuck up. I'm going to suck. People are going to hate this. And then halfway through the first song, I'm like, I'm on a huge high.

It just keeps growing and growing and growing. And so it's fun. It's so much fun, dude. It's fun wave to surf. It is. Yeah. But it's like I'm, it is a, you know, that's a good point. Because it's funny, talking to you about it makes me actually appreciate it more.

I've never actually had that, realized that. Like, it is a wave you surf and it's scary because it's a big wave, at least to me, because performing was something I never thought I had the stuff. Growing up, I didn't have the self-esteem to go, yeah, of course I'm going on stage. It's me, right? That's not the case. So I think that that childlike part of me is actually maybe the most important part of the whole thing is like that tension and that buildup before the show, whether it's shows that are a day apart. As soon as that show is booked, it starts growing.

Yeah, totally. As soon as we commit, whether it's a year out, two days out, that tension in me, that anxiety and tension starts to grow and build and build by the time I hear. hit the show, it's like, it's crazy how that rush I get for that to be, like, lifted and to dissipate is a huge rush. Yeah. And it always feels like by the first chorus of the first song, I'm always, and we always usually play the anthem, so it's a great chorus. I used to cover that on my old tours.

Oh, cool. Yeah. That's awesome. Oh, dude. It's a fun song. Yeah, it's great. Everyone sings along and it's just a, it's a banger. And it's a great opening song, you know.

It's like a great way to kick you off. It's such a good feeling. Yeah, I'd almost prefer, I think I'd rather have that than just be sort of even keeled the entire time. Right. You know, it is, it is annoying. It is like this struggle of like, I hate this, I hate this uncomfortableness of this anxiety. But then when it goes away, it's worth it. It's so worth it, you know.

It's the highest high. I have, it's what I imagine some drugs must feel like. Better, yeah. Do you take any of that to acting? Um, it's different. I'm a little more even keeled when it comes to acting, but the reward is still there. Like, I don't really get too nervous anymore, um, especially with the team will thing because that's something I've been doing for years.

And you know all the people. Yeah, I know all the people. It's a good crew, good family crew, like live. Everyone's super comfortable with each other. I guess every now And like if I'm auditioning for a role That would drive me nuts bro I would be so nervous

It's nerve-wracking But then once you start doing it Like the first chorus of a first song It's sort of It washes away At least for me But yeah Auditioning is super fucking annoying

And I get super nervous And so there is a little bit of that You know But if I get the job Another high Another high But it's sort of The nerves sort of go away

Yeah, I don't know. But yeah, I still get like the same sort of, it's different. It's a little bit more intense with the music side because there are the nerves there. And then you're playing in front of a crowd. And it's just a different, it's crazy. It's crazy how young you started when I realize you're only 31. Yeah. Your whole career is ahead of you.

Right. Yeah. For acting, right? Acting is an interesting thing because you're going to have different stages of your career where who you are at that time in your life lends itself to different roles that you couldn't have played. Like the roles you're going to play in your 30s when you get there, you couldn't have played them when you were in your 20s. So as much as you, I always say that too. I think like we always want to be somewhere we're not always, it seems. Yeah, totally.

And learning how to be where we are and like, smell. the roses and really like feel our life is like the mindfulness of that is the real to me the art of like living well is like being where we are even whether it's in our struggle we're on a high from some success we're on a low from a loss to sit with how we feel to to smell the roses to be mindful of the present moment is the is living well in all its forms. whether good or bad, right, rain or shine. But people that are ambitious, we always want to be to the next place. That's where I lost a lot of my, a lot of my youth I lost to wanting to be further always,

always wanting to go forward and run away from, as far away from my life as I could get. at this stage in my life, my kids taught me just watching them grow up and they grow way too fast. And you're like, God damn, 10 years just flew by. Now they're teenagers. And you're like, I wish I would have savored that a little bit more.

Now I just try to savor everything because you see the clock starts ticking. We're like, God damn, you're only going to be in the house a few more years. And then you're just going to be wherever the fuck you want to be. But that too is a practice, like you were saying earlier. Like that, like being in the present moment is not easy. Yeah. You got to practice it every day.

You got to catch it when you're like drifting to the past or the future. And you're like, oh, shit, right. I got to be here. I got to be here. And we have to do it in work too. We have to be like, oh, this is the stage I'm at. I can't go back. But I can't go forward too fast.

I got to like enjoy this journey that I'm on while I look to the future and I want to achieve that. I got to enjoy this process. all the painful auditions. You may one day go, I miss those days. I miss those days of feeling that those nerves. To me, there's something really humbling and grounding about having to do that that most people are going, I'm fucking, I'm not doing that. I'm going to go in there and sit in front of these people, I don't know.

Yeah, totally. And hope they picked me. Right, yeah. Right. Like that's my reaction to people judging me too much. because I'm going to go, I'm not going to fuck that. There's something really like there's a work part where you're doing the diligent work that it feels like that's super grounding and humbling and human.

They go, okay, I'm going to go in here because I want this. It is humbling. You know what I mean? And it's nice to acknowledge. It is. It's nice to acknowledge that it's humbling in the moment because then you're like, oh, right, yeah, this is like. This is the process.

This is the process, you know? and it should be like this and I should feel like this and I don't want to get to a point where I'm like, well, you fucking better pick me. But there's also people that have never had any success

that also would say, fuck that. Right. I'm going in there and begging anyone to pick me. Essentially, I'm going to try my best

so you pick me. Like, that's the feeling sometimes. Now, we know that's not the case. You're actually likely having a very professional and career enriching experience every single time if you look at it that way, right? But the way a lot of people would look at it is like, fuck you, don't look at me.

Don't make me feel like I have to, right? And that's not just people who have had success. I think that's anyone who struggles with their own. For me, it would just be about my self-esteem. I would just be, I'd have an adverse reaction because I don't love myself enough to go, no, I do now. at the time where I would probably go like, fuck that. You know, because that's my reaction to like, will they like me?

Right, yeah. Right. Instead of looking at the process completely different and going, no, this is the process of my art form and I'm going to get something out of this, whether I get the part or not, I'm going to be enriched from this experience. It's going to make me better. It's like tinkering in a workshop on a little art project for a long, long time in every little detail. You're the sculptor.

You're banging away on the stone, chipping away little pieces and parts with every experience. Yeah, each thing is a learning experience. You have to take it like that or else it'll make you go fucking crazy. That's how I see it. Just like every day in the studio, whether you finish the song or whether you do the, like, you'll never, it's not for nothing. It's always for something. It goes somewhere. I always try to tell people the little jobs, the little jobs, the little.

little things, the painful little things you have to do, the auditions, the different things, they're not for nothing. They go somewhere and something always leads to something. Right, yeah. Right. So the diligent part of your job is the grounding part of your job. Likely, too, with, same with bands, with actors. You get into a place where people only see you like this.

And you're like, you know, I think I could do that really well. I'm going to start stepping towards it, and however long it takes everyone to come along, as long as you keep moving towards it, they will. Yeah, it's tough to keep that faith, though, you know? It's like I know the few, I know this is working out for the future. I just got to, you know, see the fucking the statue that I'm carving.

Yeah, yeah. Sometimes it's hard to see that. Of course, yeah. You know, it's, it's, that's a practice too. The life of an artist. Yeah, yeah, because artists, I think also are pretty self-critical. Yeah, a big time. You know, like for me, if I, if I,

acting is where the juice is for me. Right. So music, I've had to teach myself that it's just fun. Because I was going to say earlier, when I got with Feldy's label, there was this added pressure to be something. Right. And I was like, okay, so pop punk is my heart and soul, but it's not what's going to sell a bunch of things for me

because it's not the biggest in the world right now. Do I have to deviate and do I have to... Do I have to sell anything? Yeah, dude, exactly. So it's like, it was this weird sort of like... it wasn't fun for me anymore. Right. Out of nowhere.

And I was like, what the fuck is going on? I love music. I just want to keep playing it. But this is, I don't like this weird pressure that's on me right now. So I'm now just having so much fun with music. But with acting, it's definitely one of the things where it's like, I'm super like, if this doesn't work out, I'm fucked. You know, it's hard to see the bigger picture. That's funny.

But I, you know. You're definitely not fucked and it's definitely working out. Right. Yeah, definitely. But, you know, there's still that moment of being an artist where it's, you know, it's all or nothing. It's like, I better get this role or I'm, my life. That's why, to me, that is what, like, there's a really healthy amount of that that pushes us. Right.

Yeah. I had that same feeling. If this doesn't work out, I'm fucked. And it doesn't go away or get smaller. It only gets bigger. I don't think I want it to go away. I think it's, I think, like you said, it's necessary. Yeah, it pushes you.

And it's just getting the balance of, like, how. keeping that faith of the ultimate sculpture that you're sculpting, you know, and knowing what that vision is going to be. And it's just, it's a trip. Life's a trip. I don't think anyone realizes when they think of music, acting. I don't think they think of it as, to me, sometimes, like, even like sports is treated a little different.

It's like, you're, there is a very clear version of sports working out. to become a professional athlete and then to get that big contract and then to whatever. Music is weird because it's art. I don't think people treat it the same and I think it is kind of the same. It's a career choice for sure.

Acting's a career choice and then you make a life out of it and then you want to succeed to the highest level you can. My success is spiritual success. Totally. Is being in tune with something bigger than me. It's helping people,

being of service, all that. You know? Totally. But then there's this human side that's sort of like, I don't want to say a prison, but you kind of have to make money to. They'll have to have to live. You have to do that. You have to do that shit.

You know? And our professions are really riding on us. Like we can't just go up to a nine to five and rely on like a paycheck every single week and whatever. It's very much like I have to go against sort of my spiritual, my soul, my morals. It's unnatural. And so far. Finding that balance is what I'm sort of figuring out now, and I think will be for the rest of my life, which I think is... The art of living.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's what makes it sort of entertaining and life, entertaining and worth it, is sort of always walking this balance and being too far on one side and then on the other side and sort of finding the middle ground again. That's what I'm loving lately. I don't know. There's like, we're talking about so much shit that like all these books that I'm reading right now, like reminding me of and it's it's the power of now and a new earth yep yeah they're great books at cart uh totally yeah he's awesome yeah i love him and and i'm reading the power or no i sat on the bench yeah yeah yeah yeah bench yeah i love him he's dope yeah he's great he's cool i'm reading uh the new

earth a new earth for the second time in a row right now and it's all about like ego and letting go of ego yeah and not attaching yourself to anything not even thoughts of myself like body image my anything. It's because you're inside you're this soul. This gets a little heady. I like it. It gets a little heady. Please tell me the gist of it.

Well, the part that I'm on right now, I guess the whole gist of the book is kind of this, but it's all about sort of letting go of ego and realize. Ego attaches itself to anything and everything. A thought, a situation that happened when you're younger, physical things. It attaches itself to it.

Like, this is my water. Right. And this is my water. So it means something to me. It's not my water. You know, it's, it's, it's, um, and that, that, this little symbolism goes to everything. Like something traumatic happened to me in my life. That defines me.

That defines me. But it doesn't because you are sort of nothing at the same time. Yeah. It gets a little heady and a little, a little gnarly and you sort of have to reread it over and over again, which is why I'm doing it right now. And take the pieces that you really can apply, that you feel like, wow, it really resonates with me. I always find with every book, I have to listen to books on tape. There's always like one or two or in a great book, I get a handful of ideas that really

hit. And I go forward and they start to work into my philosophy in my own life. So that's why I love getting like little keys that stood out because it, I never thought about that. The ego. It's so true. Yeah. And the one that really stood out to me on this one is that it attaches itself to everything. Right. And when you stop attaching itself to things, it disappears. The ego sort of goes away. It's a trip.

It's really, really, really interesting. I wish I could articulate it. You did a good job of it. Thanks, dude. That's cool. Yeah, it's a good one. So Eckart Tolly, any other books you really like? Any other standouts?

Yeah, I read Untethered Soul, which is a really good one too, sort of in the same vein. I'm more of like a self-help book all day. Give me some information. Let me process it. Let me. I want to, I think I'm driven by achieving understanding.

Yeah, totally. Figuring out how something works. I'm like both. I'm like, for the last two years, I've been all self-help book kind of guy. And like I love that. But it does take me a little while to read them.

Yeah. Because it's pretty heady stuff. And it does, it sort of takes me a little while for my brain to like, digest what I just read. But I was like recently, I'm on my phone a lot and I hate it, whether it's a video game or like an Instagram and I'm just like, what am I doing it? Like really bums me out.

So I'm trying to use every instinct I have to go on my phone to start reading. And so I'm like, I want to read not just self-help books because that takes a little while and I want to read like all day because I sometimes want to be in my phone all day. So every instinct I have to get on my phone, I'm just going to start reading. And so this book crying at H-Mart, that Japanese breakfast, captured your imagination in a way. Yeah, but it also is something that I can just flip through and not have to like go back a chapter or a page and kind of reread it again.

It's a story that's sort of, you know, it's not like a self-help book where it's just like it helps to reread stuff over and over and over again. So I want to get more into that. I want to have the self-help book like sort of be like the foundation. Yeah. And then just like blast through like a memoir or a book in a week or less. Like I just picked this up the other day and I'm already more than that. halfway through and I'm like very proud of that.

That's sick. It's sick. It's really cool because I'm not, I normally takes me a little while to read because I'll mix it with fucking going on the phone or whatever. It's probably good for the acting too, reading books and stuff. I think so, yeah. And for writing, music. Yeah, and writing music.

Yeah, I never thought about that. Vocabulary and. Yeah. It is. What are you the most excited about right now that you have? I mean, you have more music coming out? Yeah, I got a whole album. The album's coming out.

So when I was with, when I was with, when I was. I got with Feldy in the label. He wanted to keep showcasing my work as like in an EP. No, yeah. And I was like, okay, EPs are cool, but I want a fucking album.

I'm ready to like, that was always such a right of passage to me. Yeah, I make an album. Every band I grew up listening to, I never saw an EP, except for like Flyswater from Blink. Right.

There was no EP. Right. It was all LPs, full lengths. And I was like, I don't want to do the EPs anymore. I don't want to do the singles. Singles are fine because it's sort of

as a precursor to the album. But you should always have like a line of work attached to the singles. Yeah. Singles are leading into the album. And I was like, I want to do that so bad. It captures a time in your life, too. That's why I like albums. When I think about the album, I go, oh, I remember the years that I live to write that album.

And so with each album, you know, the first album, five years of trying and living. The second album was two years of the third up. And it's time stamps. I can feel my life when I hear that music. I can feel my life back. Yeah, dude. And that's cool. And it's kind of cool to have that like that it's interesting how that works.

Yeah, yeah. It feels important. I wanted that. Yeah. I still do. And so I got a full 16 track. Awesome. LP coming out.

I'm stoked, dude. Awesome. And independently, which is super cool. Yeah. So that was sort of an experiment. You know, I think there are some things at the label where I was like, you know what? I want to try this. alone.

Yeah. And definitely have more freedom. There was a lot of freedom there, but it's... And you have resources. If you need help, you can call someone. You know enough people that if you need to figure something out, you know, you can call some people. Yeah.

That was my mentality behind it. You know, I've got the fan base and it seemed like I had everything that sort of a label of that caliber sort of can get it. It helps you get there. Yeah, but you do. Yeah. It's smart. Definitely.

So it's more of an experiment. I'm trying it out right now. I think it's smart. Yeah, it feels good. I think where artists go wrong, this is my opinion. They get convinced that they don't know what they need to do. And I always say, first of all, no one told you you could even fucking do this. You just did it.

You didn't ask anyone permission. But then suddenly you get some success and you're around experts and they're telling you what you can and can't. do and what you what you should do and you're like no your instincts are always going to take you yeah to the direction you need to go and when something isn't really right change it you're the no one knows better for you than you build a group of people around you that you respect right that that that and that you have a good communication with ideas off of yeah and and then build partnerships with people that trust you and trust your instincts and that help you, that encourage you to make a decision that you feel versus, well, I don't know if we should

do that because if we don't, blah, blah, blah, blah. Everyone's like so scared. There is no switch. There's no key. Every different career is different. It's all organic. You never know when, like, When there's a tipping point or a moment where something pops off, when something jumps off,

it's not because someone waved a wand. What we do is we put together a strategy of how we think we should go. And then the strategy changes. We dial it as we're going because it's real and there's reaction. And then what we do know is if we go down the road, we're likely going to meet opportunity. What do they say? The harder you work, the luckier you get. Right.

So there is a little luck. It means we went forward and we met opportunity on the road and we took advantage of it and we made the most of it. But no one is a better manager for you than you. It's just you do that until you can't do it anymore. And then you find someone you trust that you respect, that it shares the same values as you to have dialogue around like, what's the strategy here? And they go, well, I think this. I think if we did that and you go, yeah, but I feel like that. And then you have this like real, you know, that's to me.

It's like a feedback thing we were talking about. There's great partnerships out there. And you just have to try and try to find them. And what I like about what you're doing is, is you're like, I'm going to do this myself. Yeah. My instincts are telling me. I wasn't listening to my instincts for a little while.

And it was, it wasn't fun anymore. And I have the luxury of this being sort of, I want this to be included in my career. But the acting is the breadwinner. And so I have the luxury of this just sort of like, really, I get to go with my gut for everything and have fun with music. And you can celebrate every win with this because you're not putting any pressure on it. And likely that's why it will succeed is because it feels like someone who's actually

doing it because they really want to do it. Right. Yeah, totally. And I think where it gets hard as I think when things become, when the job starts to outweigh the art, like you said, finding the balance is always the key, right? And I think that I think it's smart. I think it's cool. It was smart, whatever. It's cool.

It's cool. It's fucking cool. It's like, that looks cool. Let's do that. Yeah, exactly. And that's, and like I'm not, a lot of this, the sonically on this album, it's stuff that, like, there's some pretty heavy screamo shit. Yeah. And that's not, not going to get me fucking top charts, you know?

And I'm not, I love, I love it. You never know, though, dude. Yeah. I mean, it'd be dope. You know, I would love for the world to sort of get back to a place where all that shit is number one. Yeah, yeah. That's the one, you know, when I first found late 90s, early 2000s, that's when I found my home in music. Yeah, yeah, me too, by the way.

I know. It changed my life. Yeah. And whenever I pick up a guitar, it sounds like Good Charlotte. And it sounds like Blinkin. It sounds like all these. That's cool. It's so fucking fun.

And so I'm not catering to anybody but what I love in that era. And so there's a lot of most of the songs on the album are sort of dedicated to that. You know, there wasn't really an objective or a plan or a goal when I started this album. but it's sort of turned into expressing myself with all of my um uh inspirations you know so there's

there's heavy screamo there's pop punk there's rock there's like 311 type shit there's acoustic it's literally all over the place and so I wanted it to just be an expression of myself that was like the antithesis and the goal that sort of presented itself when I when I started going along with this album and it's it's

dope. I'm excited for it. I love all the songs. I think they're so much fun and there's 16 of them. What's the name of the album? Unravel. Cool. It's the final track of the of the album. And that one felt really important when I wrote it. It was like a little over a year ago. It was the first time I got really depressed as a sober person. Right. And couldn't like turn to anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Normally I would try to get high. Right. Or make myself more depressed, blah, blah, blah. And so this was like what it felt like. to be super depressed, sober. I think we all have various forms of depression.

And I've actually gotten to where like, uh, I'll be like, how do you, if I'm in a mild, mild depression, it's a real thing. The mild depression.

Yeah. Like I'm mildly depressed. Yeah, totally. That's interesting. What's mildly depressed. You know, a little sad overall. Mm-hmm.

feeling a bit, a bit of hopelessness. Don't know why. I don't know what triggered it. And then you, but I think being aware of how you feel is the very first medicine. Oh, yeah. The very first medicine you can take

is to be aware. And so when someone, there are definitely people out there, I think, that aren't aware that they're depressed and aren't aware that they're depressed. And aren't aware that they're, anxious. As crazy as that sounds, like I didn't know I was dealing with depression or anxiety in my

20s until I started going to therapy. And they're like, you know, you're very anxious. And I'm like, no, I'm not. The most anxious answer. No, I'm not. You are. So, so I think that but the, but I think that sharing it is how we share the information. It's how and music is a great way to deliver. It's a great vehicle to deliver the medicine. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So I think that's yeah. That song felt super important and I like the name of it unravel and I was like maybe this is like the title of the of the album and then it made sense like later. I was like oh it's unenravelling myself. Like it's all my inspirations from yeah. Yeah. I was nine years old to now, you know, and and and there's also those songs that like, because I'm a big, I have a tattoo that says don't take yourself or don't

take life too seriously. And there's a song about like being a piece of shit and grabbing my dick. Like that's like the hook. Yeah. And then there's a song about my mom that's like super fucking heavy. And so it's sort of all over the place. Kind of like you. Yeah.

Yeah. I can get super heavy but then like make a joke about my asshole. Yeah. That was always the dichotomy and like the balance that I've always really loved. Yeah. It's good. Yeah. So yeah.

You deliver that well. Thanks, man. Yeah. I couldn't do that. Dude, please talk about your asshole. Yeah, I can't. It's never going to happen. But I like that you can.

It makes me, it gives me, you know, I love, I love it. And then the movie, is that kind of like the summation? I hope not. No, I want there to be more. Cool. Like, I've actually, like, so there's something really exciting that I'm going through right now, which is the next phase of my. filmmaking career, which is writing and directing and producing,

making all that shit. But like you said earlier, when you were starting your business, I want to prove myself. You know, like, why are people going to give this actor a directing gig or a writing gig? Because you fucking know what you're doing, bro. I've got to prove myself that. Yeah, of course. I got to prove to them that I can do this. Exciting, though.

It's so exciting, dude. But also think about where you started and in the time you started to now. everything's changed. TV is a different thing than it was. Yeah, dude. And it continues to change. So that's why I go, you're going to fucking win and you're going to have success is because what TV, where TV is now is it's so different and it's so wild that anything goes,

we need a, the people that come in and are just trying are the ones who succeed because they don't have, there's no rules anymore about what we can make. If we do the Teen Wolf, more Teen Wolf, I already wrote the second movie and I have an idea for the third one. I'm just like trying to show. I'm like, look, I can do this. I'm ahead of the game. I can hire me.

Yeah. Or I'm not going to do it. Yeah, yeah. I have that leverage. Yeah, yeah, of course, dude. I'm not going to do the next one. If you want to do the next one, we're going to do my version of it. Cool.

So. I bet your version would be really cool. It's sick, dude. Yeah. It's so dope. It's where I think the show needs to go and I have a whole argument and, and, you know, and, and, you and PowerPoint to, like, dedicated to, like, prove my point. And be, like, this is where I think it should go.

This is where it needs to go. This is why, blah, blah, blah, all that. So that's the next phase, dude. And then riding motorcycles and... Riding motorcycles, building motorcycles. Getting covered in tattoos. Yeah, I've got patches on my chest and I'm going to start filling it all that. Start filling them all in.

I'm not going to go to the hands or the neck for now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's part. I want you so bad. But that's the moneymaker, baby. Exactly. Gotta be able to play different roles. You can cover that stuff easily.

Yeah. I have no hope as an actor, so I'm just going to continually, it's going to creep up. I want. I want that. I'm getting my head tattooed next. Sick. Do you know what? I'm working on it with Scott Campbell, who's one of my best friends, and he's at this stage in my life, the only guy that can tattoo me just because I think the older I've gotten, the less patience I have for

like, I don't know, the pain is actually just, I don't remember it hurting like that when I was younger, but the pain just is like now it's like, God damn, this hurts worse than I use than I think. And I don't use like numbing creams or anything like that. So, but I also just, he's my best friend. And there's something about, it's weird. Like I just, all my tattoos in the last like, you know, five, six years have all been him. I think it's the way it kind of should be. That's the direction that it should go. It feels special.

Yeah. And if you do really care about the work that you're getting, you find some, you experiment your whole life. It's beautiful, man. We have such a nice friendship, and I love his art, and I love him. And it's just so nice. So, but I'll always get tattooed until there's not a, and I have some really great real estate left on my left.

What about your asshole? My ass. Yes. And I, you know what? I will get covered. Like I do plan on that, getting my legs and everything covered. But I don't know about the whole. But definitely all of the real estate. Yeah. That hurts. Ass hurts. I got it. I got somewhere close to. I got my upper hip. I got a Harley engine tattooed on my upper hip. A couple months ago. It was close enough to my ass. We'll be like, that would just be awful. And you love Harley Davidson's? I do. Is that the only motorcycle you ride?

No, I also, so my first bike was a triumph. Oh, triumphs are cool. Triumphs are great. So I still have my triumph. I have a KTM. I've had a BMW. How many bikes do you have? Right now I have four.

Okay, cool. I just got rid of like four. Do you like old cars at all? I've had eight. I do. I've never owned one, but I was wanting to get a 32 Ford Roadster. Oh, that's cool. That's really cool.

Just like the do. Fucking hot rod car. That's super cool. So I do. I like all that shit. Yeah. It's fun. Like my vision is going to a car show, winning an award with like my kids in the passenger

seat with me and like they're like locals. They know all of like the judges. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the other car heads and that would be like my, that's what I want to do. I want to, I don't know, that's on top of all my work and all, like I want to keep going and keep pushing myself, writing, directing. playing shows, making great albums, producing, having fun. I want, that's like,

I want to build a bunch of shit and like have a car where I can drive my little kids to a car show and like win an award. Yeah, yeah, that's fun. I have a couple old cars. You do, what do you have? My favorite is a 65

Impala Super Sport. Sick. Convertible. All original. It's great. And I'm looking at another one right now. I haven't gotten one in another old car in years. It's been many years now.

And I'm looking at, and it's funny because I'm just looking at 65 Impala's again. And I'm trying to break myself out of, I love 65, 66 Impala's. I just love them for whatever reason. I've always just, when I was a kid. Like, always something I shared with my dad, he loved Impala's. And when I was really little, I used to look, 63, 64. or 65 Impala. Those are the ones. But so I'm also kind of looking out into Chevelle's.

I definitely love Chevy's of a big Chevy guy. Would you get a pickup? I have a C-10. Sick. Yeah. So I'm trying to figure out. But then I started looking at all the old, like the old like the Ford's, the 30s and the 30, 40s and 40s. Those are so cool. So I'm kind of letting myself explore, like, which old car?

It'll find you. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool, though. It is cool. I love it. I love that shit. And I'm getting to an age, too, like my kids are teenagers. The dadmobile isn't as necessary all the time as it was five, 10 years ago. So I have more time to drive them now. That's what I think when your kids are at a certain age from zero to 15, you're driving them around. But then they start to get like they're, they're just, it changes. This is less soccer. Like, they're getting rides. So I feel like it's going into that stage of my life where I can start like driving cars again.

And it's kind of cool. I'm looking at it and going like which. And you know what I love about old cars is you could buy a Ferrari for. 300 grand. You'll get more looks and just a good, well-done classic car all day long. It's way more conversation piece, I think, in like any parking lot. You'll get one guy who cares about old cars to come up and you'll have a great conversation about the car.

Like, that's what I love about old cars and motorcycles is the people who love them. It's kind of like that with tattoos too. Like those niche things that people love, you'll meet someone who loves it as much as you and you'll have a great little bonding moment with someone about this old car and they'll show you theirs or it's just a cool little thing to share with people who love them. And I think that's what I love about the old cars. Yeah, it's a good community. Yeah.

Definitely. And we all have our favorites, but you learn a lot about all these different cars over the years. I've looked at everything. And I love a car show every now and then. just go and walk around and look at like beautiful cars. It's such a cool thing to, to, it's probably the only hobby. If I had a hobby before, that was probably one of the only things that I would really enjoy doing is like just taking the car out for a ride. Yeah, man, I get it.

Yeah. Probably same with the motorcycle. Oh, yeah. Love it. And it's, it's, it's, the older stuff is like easier to sort of understand the engine. It makes more sense to you can work on it yourself. You can tinker on it. like you can figure out because no matter what if you have an old car you're going to end up

in a parking lot somewhere at some point with a problem yeah and you learn those it's cool you can you learn how to fix those little things and you learn how to drive it you learn how to keep the thing you know you know they all have their little quirks and each car's a little different and it has its quirky little personality and you learn that car and you just get it's it's a cool it's a beautiful thing. It is. It's so cool. Yeah. Well, dude, thank you for coming. Dude, thank you. So good to hang. That was so much fun, man. So good to meet you. Likewise, yeah. Good luck with the album, the movie, and the, dude, I can't wait to see when you write direct when your first thing comes out. I'll be watching. I'm excited. And you'll come back

and we'll talk about it. Yeah, we'd love that, dude. Cool, dude. Thanks, bro. Thank you so much, man. I don't want to bed. Hey everybody, hope you enjoyed today's episode and you got something out of it. It was a fun one. See you guys next time.