Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Violent J of Insane Clown Posse

Episode Date: August 30, 2023

This week on Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Violent J of Insane Clown Posse. Violent J, one-half of Insane Clown Posse, is an elder of Detroit rap. Since the band’s inception in the late ’80s, J has helped establish a legacy of merging supernatural horror with shock rap — and garnered a legion of Juggalos along the way.  The band are preparing to celebrate 30 years of Hallowicked, an annual concert that goes down every Halloween in Detroit.  J also recently appeared at NWA 75, a wrestling event put on Billy Corgan of the Smashing Pumpkins, and ICP are set to play Riot Fest in Chicago this September. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Video Editor: Ryan Schaefer Sound Engineer/Audio Production: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Social Media: Sarah Madden Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Anthony Lauletta, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist friendly. On this episode, I'm talking to Violent J of Insane Clown Posse. Let's go. So you grew up in Michigan, your whole life. Yeah. And so I have to tell you, I have to be honest, I was a little nervous today. Because obviously, I've...

Fuck, I'm nervous, bro. It's funny how we'd both be nervous, but, you know, you guys have, you know, insane clown posse and your legacy with music, you guys have a real unpredictable mystique to you. You know, they say, like, that guy doesn't give a fuck, or those people don't give a fuck. But there is this kind of, like, persona people can have that they portray that. But you guys have always struck me as, like, really, truly being your. yourself, authentic to yourselves, you move through the world. It's completely unpredictable. And it's always, I've always been like very intrigued by it. But also there's, I respect it.

I'm, I just, I, you know, I don't know what I'm going to get. And so I was really excited to talk to you today. But I was also a little nervous. It's probably good. It's probably just a respect for the legacy. Well, I'm happy you're here. Yeah, I'm happy to be here, bro. I have, I've legit. Like, I for real am, you know what I mean? That's cool. I appreciate that. Not on some like a normal, normal one greeting shit. I'm geese. Yeah, man, me too, me too. And I have a lot of respect for what you guys have done. So it leads me to wondering, like, who are those guys? Right. Like, what a, what a, what a, age where you like, I'm not going to go down the normal path of life. I'm going to break off

and do my own thing and create this world for myself. And then when did that world, which eventually became ICP, when did that world come to life? How hard was it from? At what age? Was it seven? Was it some event in your life? Was it, you know, I know for me, I found music because my family fell apart. And it became the thing that I feel like the vehicle that rescued me out of probably a lot of bad stuff. And I didn't realize that until later. And now I'd say I'm more aware of it because I've just done tons of therapy and stuff, right? I really believe that that's the thing that saved me in my adult life.

But the music got me all the way from my young adolescent to, probably 30, probably saved me from going down the road. But what age were you when you were like, I'm going to do, I'm going to go into this world. I'm going to make my own little world. You know, when I look back at my super early childhood, I think how ICP got to be ICP is everything probably that happened before I discovered music. You know what I'm saying? And all of that mixed with music is obviously why I'm standing here or sitting here in clown paint. You know what I mean?

I think, you know, I come from, you know, pain, you know what I mean? Yeah. What is classified as pain or whatever, you know what I mean? Trauma. Yes, lots of trauma. And went through all of that and poverty. Yeah. You know what I mean?

And, and, um, but me and my brother always, like, if you, all of that in my, uh, molestation, you know what I mean? Poverty, all this, uh, trauma. But when I look back on my childhood, I swear to God, it's a positive thing. Because of the, I consider it a great childhood, you know what I mean? Me and my brother escaping into the woods, you know what I mean? Thinking, believing in our heart, it's haunted. You know what I mean?

I mean and we found this forest that we would go to all the time but my brother was into role playing you know what I mean imagination again you know what I mean I started getting into pro wrestling you know yeah of course I know it's fake but it was it was the imagination that went into it you know what I mean right grown ass men playing these characters and doing it so fucking well you know what I mean and it's helped a lot of people pro wrestling you could say that the world of pro wrestling. I only know about it because of my friends. And I would say the amount of people that are into it,

whether they would admit that it helped them get through something, it's definitely a world that's rescued a bunch of people. Oh, big time. Yeah. Any escape. Yeah. You know, you can look at wrestling. You got two guys in the ring, right?

Basically faking it, but they're telling a story. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? that they're telling a story and they got sometimes 75,000 people in the stadium. Yep. Going fucking crazy. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

And everybody in that fucking building knows it ain't real, but everybody's getting away. Yeah. You know what I mean? Everybody's bought into it. They're fucking, that's everybody just escaping. You can even think about it if you, I call a satellite. If you look at it from the big vision, you're off there looking at what's going on in the world right here. or in the city, right here you got 72,000 people, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. All just getting away and there's no real athletic competition in there, you know what I mean? You got to give that props because that's imagination shining. That's everybody getting away, you know what I mean? And it's produced some of the biggest stars of all time. It takes creativity. You've got to create a character for yourself. Not only have to have crazy athletic ability.

Yeah. That's already goes without saying. But you've got to create a character for yourself. an image, you know what I mean? A gimmick, you know what I mean? And you got to, it's got to be appealing, you know? Like there's two kinds of serial killers, you know what I mean?

There's the kind of serial killer that's not funny. Right. That does some shit that's so, that nobody can get behind, you know what I mean? Then there's the cool-ass kind of serial killer, the hand of a lector or something, you know what I mean? You know, or like the Joker, you know what I mean? Yeah, the fantasy.

idea of a of a bad guy we love to to we you know we love to hate and we love we love to love but I do think it's like interesting though because I could almost feel you'd saying you and your brother run into the woods and I think the same thing about you know we likely had different childhoods in some ways and similar in other ways and trauma is there's lots of different kinds of trauma. But I do think when I look at my childhood and go, it was really great because I have my brothers and we had our own little world and we escaped everything together by making these little games up or characters. And I don't think we could have created our personas in music had we not had the imagination we got escaping the trauma that we had when we were kids.

And the poverty, like you said, poverty was a big one. I always try to pull things out for people listening because I know they can relate, you know, people and poverty. It's a real thing. And if you've ever experienced real poverty, when you get away from it, you run from it for the rest of your life. It's the best thing that can happen to you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Honestly, because then you appreciate every fucking thing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like I've been rich way before I ever had any money in this music world. Like, once I started actually making money. money doing music. I was a million already. How old were you when you were no longer poor? Oh, fuck.

Well, yeah, shit. What age would you say when you were out of poverty? Like you actually had some, at least enough money that you would consider yourself well off. 24? I mean, before I actually had money. Like, you know what I mean? I was actually like driving a car from making music, you know what I'm saying? Probably 24.

but everything we had went back into the company, you know what I mean? Right, yeah. So we didn't really take anything anyway. It just was all... But you were no longer in poverty. Yeah, no, yeah, no. So now you could say, I've been out of poverty longer than I was in poverty. Oh, fuck yeah.

Yeah. Way, wait. That's interesting. But you know what I mean? When you come from nothing, you know what I mean? Everything you get is the shit. You know what I mean? Right.

If you came from somewhere, you know what I mean? Oh, also, if I returned to the... nothing, I know how to handle it. You know what I mean? I'll be right. I'm not, you know, I can handle it. But if you come from everything and then you lose nothing, you know what I mean? Right.

You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Where's your motivation? You know what I mean? I don't know. I'm not saying that if you come from everything, you don't have motivation or anything like that.

It would be a different motivation. If you're a beast, you're a beast. It don't matter where you come from, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, I think, like, when people come from poverty, I'm saying, don't use that as an excuse to be like, just where I'm from. I don't need none. I don't know. This where I'm from, you know what I mean?

I'm never going to leave. This is who I am. I'm going to fuck that. You know what I mean? If this sucks, get out of that. You know what I mean? Fuck that. Yeah.

I actually think there's this poverty mindset that we get given when we're, you know, were raised in it that almost they it's almost like people that sit in poverty and I'm not saying that they're there by choice right not at all um but I think that there's a there's a at least I had the experience that like everyone who had money was bad when I was growing up like you know what I mean like they did something wrong to get the money and so for a long time I equated people that had a lot of money to bad guys. Me too. And it took me a long time to realize, like, no, that's not true.

There are certainly bad people that have money and bad people that don't have money. There's a lot of bad guys that are poor, too, doing terrible shit. So I think like, but I feel like it was like almost like my mom had to just like make it better for us by telling us like those rich people, they, they steal from people or they trick people or whatever, like to make it okay, to make it feel noble that we didn't have money. But I think it took me a long time to realize like, no, evil does not equate to money, but there is evil in money sometimes. And certainly like there's evil and not, the people that don't have money that are trying to get money.

So I thought, I think that was interesting, like growing up that way. Yeah, I had the same experience, you know, there's a time. I mean, I still, you know, I think about that all time because anybody that listens to our music knows that we've always said shit about rich people, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, so did we. So, yeah, you know, you know, so, but man, I was blessed from the beginning, you know what I mean, to be, to be, like I said, right when I was able to do this for a living, you know what I mean? The rest of anything like that is irrelevant. I've been blessed. I've been rich.

You know what I mean? Right. It's a feeling almost. Yeah, I mean, it does change a lot of things, but I don't believe it's success or money that changed my opinion on rich people. It's wisdom from life, living. And being able to judge someone actually on the content of them and not what they're driving and being able to see past, like early days for me, I would have been in.

impressed by the wrong thing because I hadn't been around it enough. So I would have been like, oh, he's driving that or he's his and I would have been. And now I can look past that and go like, what kind of guy is he versus what does he have? That's what I'm saying. Yeah. That takes wisdom to accept that to work. I mean, to acknowledge that, you know. You just got to live life, I think.

You know what I mean? It's hard to explain, like, especially when you're young, you'll fuck rage. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Fuck that rich kid. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. We used to beat rich kids.

I'm not going to lie, when I was like 16. Those poor rich kids, man. We were like, my mom would clean houses, you know, out in Birmingham. And that pissed me off. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's like outside of Detroit. And, you know, for some reason when I'm 16, I'm fucking listening to fucking straight out of Compton, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, you're pissed off. I'm like, fuck them rich kids, man. My mom's cleaning their fucking toilet. You know what I mean? So we used to, I'm not going to lie, we used to drive out there and we'd have, we'd all be ducked down in the car. You know what I mean? So the only guy driving would be looking at like three kids on the corner. And the kid in the corner, be like, fuck you're looking at.

And also we'd all raise up. What? We were crazy, you know what I mean? Yeah. That was our anger to rich kids, you know what I mean? Yeah, but it makes sense. Makes sense. I mean, you're like 16.

you're probably at that age you've probably seen a bunch of shit probably don't know how to process it most of the time and you're just pissed off and then you look out at the world you see your mom working hard

no one's really saying thank you I had kind of similar experience and then you're just pissed off because you feel like someone has it easier and you also, I think I went through this anyways personally, felt pretty bad about myself because of the way I got treated and I also didn't have access to what I saw, what I think other kids would, to me anyways, look like a normal life where they were going to parties and they were like having a girlfriend, you know, high school was tough.

I was working shitty jobs. And I think that that rage that comes out. until I found music really found its way out, me just being pissed off with other people. And they, you know, we know now as grown-ass men that, like, plenty of rich kids are going through their own trauma. They're going through hard shit we don't even know about. Well, man, don't matter who you are or what you got,

nobody can escape the trials and tribulations of being human. A life. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? That's just it. All these emotions that motherfuckers go through, money don't take that away. You know what I'm saying? You're still going to go through the same fucking emotions, you know?

Worry don't just leave you all of a sudden. You know what I mean? You might feel better about something, but then all of a sudden you're going to be worried about something else. You know what I mean? Worry is a human emotion. It's just going to be there so accept it. You know what I mean?

A focus on what the fuck. I make it sound easy. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I've had fucking problems with depression and anxiety disorder, fucking panic attacks that I like a motherfucker fucking tsunami in the brain, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's going to be bad.

I'm not anyone to give any advice, you know, but without being thinking about myself, it sounds easy to give it, you know what I mean? So it's easier to set it done, you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, I, but I think you are, you are one to give advice because you've had a lot of success and you came from a place where you could, you could put you on paper, right? If you looked, if you, if you stepped outside of yourself and you just said, I'm going to put the idea of who I am on paper, where I'm from, what my, you know, my early life was like, my experience is, if you, if you wrote them all out, you put it all on paper, and you put that

on the table, and you said, here's a kid, this is a story, here's all the details. And likely, you know, I talk about this with my therapist. We were talking about this. because my childhood was there was a lot of trauma a lot of different kinds of trauma right and if you put it all on paper and so on Reddit they'd be it would be like oh ugly to read I don't like this this does not make me feel good reading this I don't want to read this anymore I don't want to hear about these things right and you could say that and I'm not saying I'm special a lot of artists musicians especially have these traumatic childhoods where we've just been

through all this different stuff and all different kinds like the whole special spectrum of struggle, trauma, all that stuff. So you could say, if I put this on paper and I read about this kid, I would not bet on him because the stats say, someone has been through all that, they're going to end up with all these other problems. But success is not on the list. They're not set up for success. But to, so despite that, despite those early struggles to come out and have success in the world and then maintain it, right? I think you're definitely one to give people advice because I think, and I also think you have a lot of people that follow you. You have, you guys have built a culture of, it seems like to me a culture that a large

group of people depend on, right? And they find a lot of joy in it. They find a lot of, they they personally identify with it they find a place uh and so when i think about and i go into these rabbit holes in my mind of like how like the butterfly effects we have or that things have on on people so when you go down the rabbit hole of how many people is this affecting in a positive way first of all and then how many people is that affecting because this one person went right when they might have gone left and then how many what's the chain of events and the chain reaction of positive that your music and your world that you created somewhere when you were a kid, that you and your brother and your best friend create this world that's now a bunch of

other people's world. It doesn't even really almost belong to you anymore. It belongs to this group of people that depend on it for certain things. When I think about that, I think, like, who to thunk that this kid would create that thing and then it would affect all these people. And you just don't know how many people are there at a moment where they would have done something bad or they would have hurt themselves or they would have made a bad decision. And they chose to do something positive, which led them down a whole road of their life that's from positivity versus the negative choices. Right.

So I think about that and I go, well, it may be unconventional, right? but that's but it's absolutely serious and it's had a huge effect on a bunch of people's lives and so that's why I wanted to talk to you because I was like I want to find out what is going on with those guys because you guys have been doing it for so long and there's plenty of reasons to you know to not do it you could find a million reasons not to do it but you're still doing it and at some point it's it goes beyond it goes way beyond personal success or money or any of that stuff and it goes into this it feels like this legacy that you guys are keeping that is i look at it as good it's that's fucking cool you know yeah man well why why go away you know what i mean

yeah it's what the fuck we love you know what i mean you know i don't think you know unless some tragedy came along that um And unfortunately, nothing did to either one of us enough to knock us off our fucking rails, you know what I mean? Thank God. Thank God. Yeah, absolutely. So we ain't going to stop, man. It's what we do, you know?

That's my best friend in the world, you know what I mean? And we die for each other, you know what I mean? And we both have this passion, you know, it's not, there's really, at this point, there's no other drive. By the way, we are talking about. people, listen, I believe about success we were talking about, I believe it breaks down to this. The gift of drive, my friend.

You know what I mean? Yeah. The gift of drive is really it, man. Either you have it or you don't, right? You'd be successful in any fucking thing. You know what I mean? No matter what you do, if you're a lumberjack and you've got the gift of drive,

you're going to be Paul fucking Bunyan. You know what I'm saying? You're going to end up with the five lumber mills. So I'm saying. It's like if drive is the gift, you know what I mean? That's really what it boils down to. And settling for unhappiness is the answer, the opposite of drive. Yeah.

Usually. Yeah, settling for your own unhappiness. That's right. Yeah. You know what I mean? I totally get that. So, yeah, it's like where is your, where you lay? You know what?

And so really that's it, man. but man everything yeah like um and we only have man time the other thing i say is time time is a fucking beast time is everything time time is um ooh time is the most precious thing in the world it's the only resource we can't uh make more of it's right we can't do shit with we can't slow it down and speed it up you know what i mean you can't do nothing but fucking watch it and we're all on it you know what i mean and the craziest thing is uh my boy you Eshan said, what's the worst thing you can do to a man? You know, take away his time.

Take away his time. You know what I'm saying? Say, all right, motherfucker, you're gonna sit it out. We're all on this fucking rolling thing together, but you're sitting your time out, you know what I mean? Say, we can all see the fucking cliff coming, you know what I mean? It's just time, you know, if you think about it, even if you were one years old, in a hundred years, this whole fucking population is going to be gone. It's going to be all new ninjas here.

You know what I'm saying? And so it's crazy you think about, but that's time. And yeah, it's nuts. You know what I mean? So how much, my point is, how good are you going to make with your time? Yeah. You know what I mean? If you got drive dope, you better have it because we only got so much time.

You know what I mean? That's it. That's right. How many experiences you want, you know, because physical things are dope. Like we were talking about the collectibles in here, physical things are dope, you know what I'm saying? But they really don't mean shit. When you get it, it sits on your shelf. You know what I mean?

Every once in a while, you can be like, hey, man, Pete. Cool little thing. And then it might sit for fucking nine months before it fucked with again. You know, in my man cave especially, you know. But what I'm saying is, yeah, man, you know, physical items and shit, what matters is fucking experiences. You know what I'm saying? Like, what, you know, even if you have a fucking, like if you have a gold medal, right? you can have all the you could have that whole fucking shit filmed at the Olympics with 39

fucking digital cameras or whatever and satellites and blimps and shit all filming it nothing can replace the actual experience of being in that race right and running and winning that fucking medal right the experience yes is what it's about you know what I'm saying I totally go you're saying yeah it's some time you know make best with your fucking time and experience shit 100% I think experience and being actually able to be present in the experience and actually be there. And what I think, and this is the thing with like anxiety and stuff because I struggled with that too. And it was directly related to childhood shit.

But anxiety and all that stuff, PTSD, all that. what it does though is it steals your present it steals you out of the present moment you know what the past can do to us is dictate how we see the present so we can work our way out of a bad situation out of a bad past out of all this trauma and all this stuff but if we don't actually get grounded and heal right heal actually work on healing what we've been through and then be present in the moment to actually experience the thing to be the thing to be a in the race or to experience the thing we're doing as the present as a good thing, we will let the past dictate the present as a bad thing and we won't actually enjoy it.

And so I do think that it's being present and experiencing and then but then also learning how to be happy is a whole journey like I found anyways. It took me a long time, man, to be happy. Even early successes in music where I was like, okay, I finally got money. All I wanted all my life I thought was money. Like I thought that would solve everything. I was like if I get money, everything's going to be better. Because it was always the root.

It felt like in my adolescent life from as soon as I became aware, probably like, how old are you 11 or whatever when you become aware? And then I became acutely aware that we did not have money and that all of our problems stem from not having money. And then from 11 to 21, 22, probably when I first got paid, it was just like money problems was always the thing we were solving while we were trying to get to our goal. I think probably from 15, we were like, you know, we were like, all right, I'm going to make it. And the reason I'm going to make it is to get out of this hole. You're right. Get the whole family out of the hole. But then I realized, then I got the money and it didn't make me happy.

And I realized it took me, God, my whole 20s, they actually get to a place where I was like, I had to go talk to something. I'm going to go to therapy. I'm going to start reading some books, start trying to learn a little bit about why I feel this way. And then I think my 30s was when I came into my actual reality that like, it ain't even actually the success with music or any of that that makes me worth, that makes me worthy. It's actually me and how I feel about myself. And then learning how to be happy in my present reality and not keep kind of sliding

back to the past with that black cloud that hangs over you, I think, when you come from that. So I think it's really part of the experience thing that you're talking about is being present in the experience of your present success. And for me, everything's a success if we're not dying, right? Every day is a success. If we're not hurting someone, if we're not doing, if we're not destroying, if we're being productive in our life, if we're loving someone, if we're having, you know, even just you're hanging out with your brother, whatever you're doing, that's a success to me. And all of it works together. So I think it's like learning how to be present for me was probably, I probably wasn't even present in my own music career until I was probably my,

till I was like, I think I'm going to retire. But I probably till I was like in my late 20s, Man, so crazy. I was just so, I think you just get, I think, especially too with success, and you probably had this feeling like you make your first million dollars or whatever, you get overwhelmed by it and you sometimes just, you're not even present there to enjoy the thing you just accomplished, you know? Yeah. Man, yeah.

It's trippy. Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. Our whole fucking thing. was coming up, there wasn't one moment where all of a sudden, boom, we hit. You know what I mean? We don't, like, there was never no point like that. It was just such a slow, gradual climb. Right.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So, yeah, there was never that moment went where it was like, oh shit, my life just changed. Right. It was like stacking bricks. Yeah, whole fucking thing, man, you know. But yeah, I was saying, I'm saying. experiences though man like having done it is priceless because you can take that anywhere you know what

i mean that's with you you you know you did it you you lived it you could tell that story you know yeah for sure do you feel like you know the person that listens to your music if you see them on the street can you tell who they are do you feel like you can identify the people that listen to your music um or is there a character type yeah well of course if i see a juggalo yeah right you know what i mean Yeah. Like somebody that's, yeah, because usually there's some sort of flag on. Right, right. There's a certain, there's so many fucking logos, you know what I mean?

Yeah. But there are only certain logos that guarantee this ninja is a juggalo. Right. You know what I mean? Because if he's got one of those logos on, he's obviously listening to something that's been in our direct orbit. Right. You know what I mean? And yeah.

So which... And in that orbit, for many, many years, nobody hated each other. There was no war. Right. It was unusually cool. Right. Between all these bands. You know what I mean?

So there was a world, there was a whole world of bands you guys all got along. And if a fan... In the juggalo world. Right. In the juggalo world. Uh-huh. And is that not the case anymore? No.

I mean, no. No. No. No, not band-wise, you know what I'm saying? First of all, time has done a lot to it, you know. Yeah, time does. Yeah, you know. But over time, yeah, time fucking, you know, what it was in the beginning, it's just not going to last forever, you know.

Plus, you continue to grow, you know what I mean? Yep. You know, and I only know the groups that I, me and Shaggy, put, put, you know. out. Right. You know what I'm saying? Oh, I'm having it on. Damn.

I was going to show the, the hatchet, man. You know what I mean? I was going to say, I'm so used to having it on it. I was going to say it didn't have this on it, you know, for many years on the music, you know, that logo. Then, you know, I knew that was something that I musically endorsed because I had something to do with it. Right.

You know what I mean? And, but then over time, it just... Just, you know, things change. Yeah, it does. That's kind of how it works. Yeah, man. I like that you wear that chain. How long have you had that?

I just got this, man. You just got it. Yeah. That's cool. Man, I had a dream. I swear to God, this is the logo in the year of 2017. The number 17 is very important in the drug of the world. You know what I mean?

It's very elusive and mysterious and lucky. Yeah, I love numbers. I got numbers tattooed all on me. Just all my lucky numbers. 17's a good one. In the year 2017, we released a series of music videos. We worked real hard that year, you know what I'm saying? Because it was like the only calendar year with 17 in it, you know what I mean?

Yeah. So we were like, every video we put out that year had this logo on it. You know what I'm saying? At the beginning of it, it was shine. It was just like at the beginning. any of the video, you know. And then, so anyway, I was going to a super fucking ruthlessly, ruthless time of my life. You know what I'm saying?

And I fucking... In 2017? No, this is after that. After that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. This is two years ago, a year ago. Not even that.

So kind of like, post-COVID, you were going through a bad time? Huh? You said you were going through a bad time? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So, so I was sleeping and I had a dream. that I was wearing this shit, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

And so when I woke up, I was like, man, that fucking charm was fresh. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I knew what it was, you know what I mean? Yeah. Because I always liked that logo, you know what I mean? We got so many different logos, but I've always liked that one. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And so I had that dream and then I was like, I'm going to make that happen. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I called my boy Parker at D-Customs or D-Town Customs in Dallas. Okay. mean and he made it you know what i mean that's cool it matches your teeth too how long have you had your teeth no i just got these i'm fronting i just jumped on a bound wagon oh okay yeah yeah these uh

you know they just pull them off okay yeah they look good thanks man i thought that's too he did him i thought they were implants because they don't affect how you talk and usually fronts will affect how people talk no no yeah doesn't that's cool they're good they're really good my brother has affect me a little bit, you know. But I got hearing aids. Sorry, I got hearing aids. Have you always had hearing aids? No, fuck no.

I fucked my ears up. From touring? Yeah. I have a hearing from, because we don't use in ears on tour. No, me. We don't either. Well, I will say, half of the band used in ears, but me and my brother, we always, because we came up doing all these acoustic bar shows and stuff,

And like we just found wedges and monitors to be more real. Like I could feel the crowd and feel the music. So I never used any ears. But it cost me my hearing and my... Night after night after night after night. My right ear is my bad one. But my left one's pretty good. Man, they told me I was in a truck stop, man.

I mean, I remember I was in a truck stop. We were on tour and... I fucking got to change from the lady, you know what I'm saying? I accidentally dropped it. And it hit the town floor and it didn't make no noise. You know what I mean? I was like, what the fuck? And I picked it up and dropped it again and it didn't make no noise.

You know what I mean? And man, truth, I fucking went in the bus, just went in the back and started crying. Hearing gone. I was really, I was like, it's just not what happened. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I kept, I remember when I started to realize it was going bad, I kept going to the get my ears clean, you know what I'm saying?

Like what's going on? You know what I mean? And yeah, you know what I'm saying? It's like, oh, and then one time we're in the studio, you know, and we're doing a skit and we're looking for crickets. Yeah. And so they're pulling the crickets up. I'm like, that's cool, but we need something that sounds more rule, you know?

Yeah. So they pulled the next one up. I'm like, nah, you can hear cars or whatever. Whatever we were looking for, you know. Yeah. They pulled the third one up and they were like, what do you think? And I was like, play it. And they were like, it's playing.

And I was like, I turned out. I couldn't hear it. It was some kind of, whenever that fucking cricket was doing, or crickets, it was some kind of pitch that I just could not hear, you know what I'm saying? Right. And then you had to go get hearing aids. Yeah. And how long has that been?

Like two Well, I got them I got them It's so crazy I got them I wore them for like a year, right? Right. I've had to wear them on and off

because when I have anxiety, you know, I can't wear them all day and then take them off at the end of the day and not here. It's like, you know what I mean? Right. It's crazy, you know? and it gave me a panic attack or something.

So at different times I would be, in my life, I'd be like, fuck that, you know. Yeah. But probably like three years ago I started wearing it and got over it, you know what I mean? Yeah. But probably like three years ago, I started wearing it more. But at one point, I started wearing it for like a year and fucking the cat snatched one of them. Oh. Damn cats.

It's a true story, man. We fucking turned the house inside out. You wouldn't even believe it. searched everywhere. It was nowhere, right? Can I ask you something? The bitch is like 13 grand, you know. Let me just ask you, is the cat a rescue?

Yeah. Okay, so we have a rescue cat and we get into a fight about it all the time because my wife, these damn cats come and then she's like, needs a home and it's a kitten and it's cute. And everybody's trying to get rid of a kitten. Everywhere you go, someone's trying to give you a cat. We have two cats, the rescue cats, and I'm getting ready for the first tour we've done. In 2018, we were doing a tour, right? We hadn't done a tour in a couple years, and I was like, I'm nervous.

So I'm like getting in shape and I'm trying to get ready for the tour. And I like, get everything. I'm like ready to go. Ready to go for this tour. Got back in shape, you know, worked out for six months. And I was like ready to go. The night before we're going to go to tour, the damn cat. that we had just adopted my wife.

And I said, no, I don't wanna get this cat because it was literally in the woods. Like someone in the neighborhood was like this cat. And so she's like, this cat, she needs a home, whatever. So we had the cat for like a month or two. I'm getting ready for tour. The cat is the kind of cat that like goes after your feet with a claws and she would like at nighttime.

Everyone goes to sleep. My wife goes to sleep early. She's asleep by like nine o'clock. And I'm packing. packing for tour the night before tour. I always leave until the last minute. Packing for tour. The cat is chasing my feet around while I'm packing, and I'm just getting around it.

And then the last thing, I'm zipping up the suitcase. I'm getting ready to put it in the corner, put it away. The cat goes after my foot. I swung my foot up and slammed it into like the arm of this armoir we had in our room. Broke my toe, right? At 1 a.m., before I'm getting up for like a 9 or 10 a.m. flight to Europe for this tour. I got to go to the doctor at like 7 a.m. or 8 a.m. or whatever, it's like, your toes broken.

So then I go on that tour that I had just gotten ready for for six months because I was so nervous and excited, whatever. And I have a cane on the tour. It ruined the whole tour for me. And the whole family was like, poor Tiger Lily. The cat's name is Tiger Lily. But like, because I was so mad. I mean, I didn't hurt the cat.

I was just like, I didn't want to look at the cat for like ever again. Again, now I'm, you know, now it's all good. But it's like this funny joke now of the family. And I always go, it's not funny. It ruined a whole tour for me. Well, it's history now, you know what I mean? So the cat stole your hearing it. That's right, man.

And then it fucking brought it back. For that whole year, I was like, fuck it. I ain't wearing them. I'm done, you know. These are expensive. I was already suspect about them because they're giving me panic attacks. Right. So when he snatched it, I was like, fuck him.

You know what I mean? And a year later, 13 grand in the toilet. We turned the house inside out, man. A year later, it was back. All of a sudden, it was in the, on the living room floor. The cat brought it back as a gift. You know what I'm saying?

Did it still work? He was like, all right, bitch, you can have it back. I don't think they like the Pearson's because sometimes. it makes an eerie, you know? Yeah, yeah. And the cats can hear that, and that's probably why it snatched it. Did it work? Yeah, no.

Yeah, it did. It did, yeah. But I've got an upgrade version since then. I never, my hearing didn't go that bad, but I have a bad ear now because of tour. And sometimes I'll talk too loud because I can't hear. And my kids and my wife will be like, dad, if I pop. my ears, you know, like when you're on the plane, you have to pop your ears. Oh, of course.

Because the hearing, I guess the eardrum is loose from the vibrations or whatever, from the bass back in the day. So, like, sink. I don't know, like, I have to pop it out. It's weird. So anyways, Mike, I'll be talking too loud and they'll be like, Dad, pop your ears. And I can't hear it as well. But it's definitely not, I don't, I can get by without a hearing aid, though.

So I'm lucky. Good, good for you, man, because, yes. You know, what you can do though? You know, Shaggy wears them too. Yeah. We're gonna go back and beat all our old Salman's ass, you know what I mean? All the guys that used to work for us, we're gonna track them down and stomp. Yeah.

Where's Shaggy at? On tour right now. Oh, wow. Solo album. Yep. Yeah, cool. Yep. You guys best friends?

Yeah. Life long. Boy, you know. I met him. Fuck. How old were you guys? I'm trying to remember. I think he, I'm trying to remember, what is, what is seventh grade?

Seventh grade, I'd say my son's in eighth grade, going into eighth grade. So it's probably like 12, 13. Okay. Yeah. Then he was like 10. Right. So you were 12 or 13. Yeah.

He was like 10, 11. Yeah. Wow. Same neighborhood. No, we had to be a little bit older. Maybe he was, anyway. Middle schoolish. One or two years.

But he, maybe by one or two years, I don't know. So don't quote me on the age one we met. I won't quote you. Yeah, it was me, him, and his brother. You know what I mean? We were like, like, it's separable. You know, I went to school with his brother, and Shaggy was in elementary school.

So we were in middle school, you know what I mean? But the three of us were super down. We were wrestling in the backyard, you know. And then when music came in, we were doing music together, you know what I mean? And then his brother left the band, you know. And years later, he passed away, you know what I mean? So anyway, yeah, me and Shaggy been together, you know, even before the band since way, way back, you know. Best friends.

Yeah, man. That's awesome. Yeah. And you guys are still best friends. Yeah. We used to be a gang, you know. Right. Like, and it was basically, you know.

Basically, there was 10 of us. Yeah. You know, we're pretty much serious about it, you know? Yeah. And when we started doing music, we were like, man, this is no fail. You know, failure is not an option. Right. So it's all out.

This is like, fuck everything else. This is what we're doing, you know. What we meant by that is any spare time we had, we're flying. We're basically, we're giving 24 hours. I mean, we're giving all. All our time to this. Right. You know what I'm saying?

Like just what we're doing, you know. But they split, we split in half, you know what I'm saying? So then there was five of us. And those five were still together. And that became the music? That became psychopathic records. Right. St. Clown Posse.

Right. You know. And what age was that? Teens? When we split? When you guys decided we're going to. Yeah, I was 19. Okay.

So you're in a gang. probably middle school, high school starts up and you get obviously you get down the road is it I don't see a very bright future in this or we need to find a way to to get where we want to go. In music?

Yeah. Fuck no. Brother, when we made that decision, I'm giving it to you real. When we made that decision, see, me and Shaggy, we used to want to be right. wrestlers. Right. That wasn't, it's an understatement said we want to be, I kind of give it to you

real, we knew we were going to be wrestlers. Right. Right. We bragged about it. Right. You know, we fucking, we didn't care about anything that was irrelevant to fucking our pursuit for wrestling. You know what I mean? Right. And, and, um, suddenly hip hop started coming into our life when I was like 17, you know. Right. And I didn't want to, I kept denying it because I, I, I, I, I fucking, we loved wrestling and we already knew what we were doing. We already got, we were on the independent scene. Wrestling in Detroit. Right.

You know, wrestling in the Midwest actually. Shaggy would be my manager. But hip hop was like, you know, knocking. And it's like the soundtrack of your life as you're out there. That's right. Music just became fucking everything, you know. So we talked about it all the time and finally we were like, fuck it. This is what we're doing.

You know what I mean? Yeah. We abandoned wrestling and we did. But from that day, brother, there was never a doubt. Like, I'm giving to you real. We were like, failure is not an option. Just what we're doing. There is no plan B.

This is it, you know. And that's even from that, even from that day, it was that same brick. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's how I know that if you, whatever you're looking for, you know, take it from a whole man, whatever you're looking for, for. If you don't sit there on your ass waiting for some kind of break or some kind of opportunity

and you just start walking. Yeah, man, it's a long fucking walk. But at least if you're walking toward your dream, you know, whether it's up a mountain or whatever, keep doing that shit. And eventually, you'll be way up that motherfucker. You know what I mean? Yeah, I agree with you 100%. I think I always...

encourage people, especially the people that listen to this show, are, I think, looking for ideas to help them along the way. And I think that the idea that like the most important thing we can do is go forward towards whatever goal we have. Even if we don't necessarily have the full plan yet, we just know we want to get there. Every day, if we can go forward, we're going to meet some opportunity that we would not have discovered if we hadn't gone forward. So if we sit at home or we sit somewhere and we don't do anything towards improvement or progress, we won't discover anything. There's no way that you guys can do what you've done if you haven't continually gone forward, right? And not just been stuck. Fuck yeah. And so to be in the world in 20,

three, right, and have a brand that's still relevant. I'm telling you this, there are a bunch of kids up there in the office at our music company. I actually talked to an artist named Poppy, whether you've heard of her or not. She's a sick artist, very cool artist, one of my favorite. And in fact, another artist who makes me feel a little intimidated when I'm around her because she's so cool, right? She's very right now. She's just cool.

I told her, I was talking to her, and I told her I was talking to you. And she was like, that's fucking cool. I can't wait to listen to that. And so like to accomplish that. Yeah, Poppy's cool, man. And she was like, I can't wait to hear that conversation. And I think that to accomplish that, it's not a group of people who sit still. It's people who keep walking forward and keep stacking bricks every day.

And me and my brother are very similar in a very similar way. we're always trying to build things. It's just kind of in our, it's in our, just who we are. And I think it comes back to being kids and having to use our imaginations and play games in the yard or go out in the woods and play games or do whatever to kind of survive the pain of everyday life. You escape it through fantasy. And it makes total sense to me that you guys would run away and create a world.

what feels like for people to escape the pain of life. Yeah, but man, let me just think, because I want to make this clear from my perspective as far as what people perceive the drug of the world as, you know what I mean? Right. We did not create that. You know what I mean?

For real, that's organic. That shit would create itself. Right. You know what I mean? It was a collective group of people just coming. For real, yeah, man. Yeah. And that shit.

Okay, first of all, at the end of the day, let me clear this. Juggalo's are people. You know what I'm saying? So even though they're juggalo's, I've read articles, you know, all my life when they're reviewing a concert or something to say. And somebody would be like, sure, the juggalo's were having fun, but outside of that, it was a terrible show. and I'm like, how the fuck does that make sense?

That's like saying, yeah, the people were having fun. Right. Well, then how to fuck did the show suck? Right. You know what I mean? If everybody's having fun, like, that's like asking me to review some shit I don't know, none about. Right. You know what I mean?

And put it in, you know, this shit sucked. Who am I to say? You know what I mean? Anyway. That tends to be the problem with media anyways, though, is people have. No, but it's been our blessing. Right. Yeah, like all that distance being the most hated band in the world, the colder it is on the outside, the warmer it is on the inside.

You know what I mean? Right. And that was the juggle of the world. All our career has been a massive blessing, you know what I mean? But it is essentially a fan base, you know what I mean? Right. No different than any band. Yeah, of course.

You know what I'm saying? but the unity and the loyalty in the motherfucking passion and the unity and the creativity between them you know and the music did us come because by the way we've inspired them you know what I mean and what it's like a tree I mean it's like yeah just growing more and more roots out you know the family tree or whatever, you know what I mean?

But it's a massively wonderful blessing because that's like more than half our legacy. Right. Like if we didn't have the juggalo's, what sort of relevance do we have? You know what I'm saying? Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, everybody credits us for creating them, you know? They created us. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. We didn't say, hey, listen, you know, we didn't sit there and plan. in our meetings, like, let's, um, have a fan base and we'll call our fans juggalo, you know, that all of that shit fucking happened, you know what I mean?

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on Shopify dotes bar records. Absolutely. I think that happens with good art though.

I think that with art that a bunch of people decide they identify with, right? So George Lucas didn't create

Star Wars land at Disney. It created the original story that then now has been told by so many different people in their own way, which is what happens with art, right? Right, yeah. We start passing the story on to our kids and to our friends, and we start telling almost like our own version of the story.

So my version of insane clown posse is going to be different than yours. So when I share that with, when my son goes, tell me about that band. And I go, oh, yeah, these guys from Detroit, and I start telling the story, it's different than your story. and it's different than their story. And that's what happens with good art, right? Like it's subjective to say that everybody loves good Charlotte, right? It's subjective.

Like, not everyone does. And everyone's going to have a different story and a different, but the legacy of our band that I found, especially now at my age, is literally the people that have taken it and made it their own and made it a part of their identity and the part of a thing that they relate to. it started different than it is now.

And it's amazing now what I experience out in the world when people come up to me and talk to me about my music. But it is definitely not, it's a different thing than it was when we started. But it's been all these people sharing it along, you know. And I think it's the same thing. I think you guys experience like, so I go back to say it's a legacy. And your legacy is literally going to be how it's, going to be all these people that are passing it around to each other and sharing it and telling

their version of the story. And I think that it's special though when you have something that still exists in the world as a legacy. To this day, you have a brand of music and persona. And when your fans get together, people still talk about it. How long have you guys been doing us? Since 96. Okay. Yeah, 96. How long have you guys been doing it? Since 91. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, I'll tell you this, though, man. You guys have a real legacy. I'm just saying. Hey, thank you, brother. I'll tell you this, brother. You too. All the fucking hits you put in this world.

You know what I mean? Hey, hey, brother, that shit's documented and can't be rewritten. You know what I mean? I wish we had a motherfucking hit. Let me tell you something, brother, all right? It sure is nice today in 2002 to be sitting here with you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. Because I know ICP all our career was under fucking ground. Yeah, you guys. Yeah, you were. Like, we couldn't, I don't even think we still can get into any kind of fucking award show or anything like that. We can't go to shit. You know what I mean?

Yeah. We fucking knock. They're like, nah. You know what I'm saying? Like, we're like industry, shut the fuck out. I want to take my fine-ass girlfriend to a motherfucking red carpet. If we're any kind of celebrity or any kind of anything like that, you know what I'm? Yeah, yeah.

Where the fuck is that? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Where the fuck is Joe Bruce's invite? You know what I mean? Right. Because we never have, you know? And the other thing is all the sound scans shit in the 90s and the, in the fucking.

fucking 2000s and all that. Man, we are fucking epically known for slang and boo leg. I'm talking about when we were on fucking jive and when we were on fucking island and we were on fucking, the whole time we're moving fucking weight.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? In fucking music, that's our fucking legacy, you know what I'm saying? So all of that is is bootleg, you know, like I'm saying, but I'm not trying to clarify to give that any kind of whatever, it doesn't matter.

The fact is, we've been doing this forever, but where the fuck is our invite to anything? You know what I'm saying? Right. That's the industry, though. And I'll tell you why. Because the industry, to this day, if we're legendary and all that,

they had nothing to do with it. because we don't have any hits so we didn't have to you know rub any shoulders you know what I'm saying and meet with corporates and make deals we were underground

the whole fucking time you know what I'm saying I mean doing platinum yeah you know what I'm saying in gold like like five times you know what I'm saying we just had a record go gold

according to stream wise yeah you know what I mean from back in the day the hocus pocus single just went gold again from the fucking ticotquerie going on you know what I'm saying

yeah and it's like hey I want to go I'm saying I want to at least get in check it out I'm going to get an invite

yeah I never thought about that yeah that's interesting man because we didn't we didn't take any of those routes but I would tell you though from an outsider who uh i would i i listen not to interrupt you but i don't know if you've seen the um sharing i was born thing when we were on howard stern no just like 90 i don't know man

i like howard stern huh i like howard stern yeah i like him man we he was really nice we know so much to howard stern bro he was really nice i mean we only went on there once and i got to tell you man i was so scared to go on Howard Stern. Because I just felt like he could crush you or he could. And I, but I listened to Howard Stern. I was a fan of his, and I remember going on and he was so, he was so nice to us. And I just felt like so relieved. But also like I was a fan, so I was really happy.

But you guys obviously went on Howard Stern and it went well for you. We went on a bunch of times, man. Yeah. Oh, man, probably like, oh, man. I don't know how many time. Well, he would like you guys, wouldn't he? He would, he would dig it. Yeah, we've been on there like maybe 15 times.

Maybe even, I don't know. But man, we owe so much to him. Anyway, there's this epic thing in our orbit, like in the jugular world, where it was our thing with Sharon Osborne. You know, that's one of the people's favorites. She was on the, we were on there. We were on tour with Cold Chamber, okay? And this is the first time we worked with another band, you know, any amount we were paying them and everything.

So the first couple shows, there was no changing in the crowd. It was just from our perspective, all juggalo's, you know what I'm saying? And so we were like, man, this is a mistake. We didn't want to pay him on this whole tour, so we kicked him off the tour, you know. Okay. It's what we did. My bad now, you know. Not my bad.

It's all history now. Yeah, you're young. Running and gunning. So, we, yeah, so anyway, we go on Howard Stern, and Howard Stern's like, somebody wants, somebody wants to talk to you, you know? So he patches and Sharon Asper. And she's like, what the fuck, you're going to kick my band off? And we are like, who the fuck is this?

And we started going at it, you know what I mean? Yeah. So anyway, and so the next day, he had her on the show and us on the show. Yeah. You know what I mean? And anyway, yeah, we just battled it out, you know, and it was on like, I believe, the fucking E channel, with this back when he had the show on a thing like that, you know. But anyway.

Yeah, that would have been like a kind of click type. My point was, she was like, do you know who the fuck I am? Right. And I was like, what, she was like, I can, whatever, you know, you want to fuck with me? Do you know what I'm? And I'm like, what can you do to us? I know you're like, you manage all this bands and got all this power in the music industry. We're not in that fucking industry.

I was saying it then, you know, like everything we took. That was my point about the whole Howard Stern thing. I was saying it on that show, you know, like everything about us is underground. We're not affiliated with all the people we should be. You know what I mean? It's not our fault. We're not trying to not be cool. You know what I'm saying?

It's like, man, you know, we should, we should be rocking festivals. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So you feel like you guys never got the recognition, really, that you should have. We do now, though. We do now, though. You definitely get. Now, yeah.

Now we do. That's what I'm saying. Like, like, who would have thought we'd be sitting there chilling, you know? Yeah, no, I wanted to. You know what I'm saying? Because, man, like, we were like, you know, always just on the outside. And the other thing is we never toured and nobody because we got the Faco.

Right. So, you know, we can't get out of these big tours. But I'll say this. I just have to say this, because one of the things I think is the coolest thing about you guys is that you were outsiders and that you always were. No doubt. That's a legacy.

Yeah, and that's what I'm saying is as frustrating as that would be to go through the middle of, right, in your career, the recognition that you work hard for is frustrating because I think we all are, I mean, I know certainly for me I didn't grow up getting a lot of trophies. I just didn't. I didn't get to do a lot of winning trophies or getting awards. I didn't get good grades.

So I didn't have a lot of good job, right? Just growing up. But I personally feel that I needed to get people's approval. I wanted someone to say good job. I wanted someone to win a trophy. I wanted to get recognition. And I think part of what I wanted out of my music career was to be recognized. I wanted people to like my music.

And when they didn't, I got pissed off and I would say, fuck you or whatever. But if I'm being honest, I did want people to fuck with my music. That's why I loved our fans so much. And that's why it felt like it was like a family. When I experienced people from the outside like you guys, I felt so empowered watching you because it felt like you didn't give a fuck. And I know, and I actually believe that you guys have had to go down this like solo road that you're on. That solo road is scrub lane. Yeah.

So, so. But, but it's unique to you guys. there's no one else like you and the struggle of being who you are and the isolation you've got you guys have probably had to feel at times and the feeling like an outsider

as hard as that is I think that because I think it's human nature to want acceptance and to be at the party like I think we all want to be together I actually do I think like we go fuck you after we get rejected we don't say fuck you

before we get rejected right we say fuck you after we get rejected and then we just start saying fuck you all the time because we get rejected enough times we just start saying fuck you to people which i also understand so i'm not even mad when someone says fuck you to me because i kind of like as a dad and as a grown man now i kind of go like man kid you've probably been through something hard i'm gonna give you i'm not even going to get maddie so like when someone says man fuck you you don't know what you're talking about I'm like, okay, maybe I don't. But I think what you guys have had to go through and to get to this point where now you have this legacy

and now you are wise enough to go, you know, yeah, of course we wanted to be at the Grammys. We wanted to be at the fucking award show. It would be dope. But like also we have this legacy and we have all these people who believe in the legacy and who are a part of the legacy and actually built the legacy with us that are proud of their standing in the world as an outsider, right? Yeah, I'm fucking crazy, probably. Yeah, man.

But I get it, though, what I hear you say. That's our whole story, but it's because we got to juggle those. We're able to even exist and not only survive but thrive. Yeah. You know what I mean? And what don't make no sense is because any fan that's successful, right? this is what I don't understand. Maybe it's different today.

But any band that's successful, if they're able to make a living, right, by selling records and merchandise, right? And touring. Yep. Right? And you're going to hear somewhat of them.

You know what I mean? In the industry, you know what I'm saying? If they're actually competing with other bands and doing what they're doing, you know what I mean? My point is, when we put albums out, none of it mattered. There wouldn't maybe be a review in our own fucking local paper. Right. I think the rejection that you faced in those times,

I think you got, for sure, got snubbed for sure, right? Like people were like, we're not even going to. But I think there was something kind of badass about it. That's what we do. It was kind of badass about it. And it exists today because of that. That's what I'm saying. I think maybe if you got the reviews or you won the award, I think maybe the legacy

wouldn't be like what it is now, which is there's, like I said, there's a, there's a mystique to it. There's a, there's a vibe to it that feels like it can't be destroyed. And it feels bigger than just to, like you nailed it. It feels bigger than just two guys that had an idea. It doesn't feel designed. It does feel kind of. It does feel organic, but I don't think it would be the same had it not gone, had it gone any other way, I think.

And it's a long winding road. It's beyond you now. Like, it's going to live in all these different ways. And I think that it had to go the way it went as painful as it probably was. Like I say, like I wish I could write how the whole thing should have gone for me. But it went the way it went. And some of it was great. And some of it I would change if I could.

It's a blessing. Like you said, every day to be awake, every day to be, you know what I mean? And writing your legacy and they continue to do it, you know what I mean? But, man, I have no regrets. Right. None? You know what I'm saying? I don't want to, I just want to say, I just want to take my girl to the Grammys.

Yeah. I don't want to. I think you could. I think you could, though. You know what I mean? I think the, I think next Grammys you should go. I'm not trying to network. can get in there and make friends.

My legacy is cemented right where it's at. I think next Grammys, though. I think next Grammys you should go. Me too. And the fucking MTV Awards. Let me tell you a story right quick. I'll bet you a bunch of people reach out and go, we actually do want you there.

It's so fucking dope. We just let a motherfucker no. But like I think possibly though even, but also it's like I have, it's like think about this. Like if I had a party. Right? And I go, oh, they don't want to come to my party. They're crazy.

They're wild. They probably be like, fuck you. In my mind, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying, where's the track record of the insanity? Right. Like, where are we whiling on anybody? Where do we go on anybody's podcast and wild out?

Why is everybody afraid like that? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's a good question. So Google and say ICB's history while and out You know what I mean? That's a good question

Very nice You have a very good reputation With people in general I mean like you know We just want to be there That would be dope But yeah man I have no regrets

You know what I mean I know like man That's what I mean That's what I meant by saying It would be dope to play Festivals Yeah You know what I'm saying

Because a lot of people Know who we are right So when we do play a festival. It's dope to see it's because every time we play it's at an ICB show, which is like a 2000

seat club. Right. Pack full of juggernaws. We go on at midnight. Mad, sweaty up in there. Everybody's jammed together. You know what I mean? They don't want to...

Nobody... If everybody knows our name and we have notoriety and everything, it ain't showing in like decide, like our shit is where it's always been. Right. That's exactly where we played in the 90s. Right.

And in the 2000, that same venues, a lot of times in cases, same venues, you know? Yeah. So I'm saying like, but yet when we do get in front of a festival crowd, people are like, and we didn't know this until we did a, we had brother, all our, I just want, I'm sorry, if I'm being confusing, but all our festival appearances back in the day were like, If there was 15,000 people there, there'd be like maybe a thousand or less juggalo's up front. Right. Painted up, crushed, wild as fuck.

Literally the rest of the crowd would either be like this or not doing nothing. Right. You know what I mean? When I do everything we're doing, just no response. Every time in the 90s or early 2000s, we did receive some kind of blessing. and be able to play a festival and play for a crowd of this not all ours.

Right. Because we don't tour with other bands. Right. You know what I mean? It's been like all jugglers up front and everybody else fuck you, you know?

So we stopped doing that. We stopped for all those years. We said, fuck it. And then in 2000s, like probably like 10, 15 years went by. We didn't do no festivals. Vanilla Ice came to town with, he called me.

He was like, Come through the show and do a song. We are like, where you have at? He's like, at Pine Knob, you know, big-ass amphitheater. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I'm like, what is it? He's like, I love the 90s tour.

You know, I'm like, bro, they're not going to want to see us out there because I'm thinking it's going to be like, what the fuck? They got salt and pepper, vanilla ice, tone low. Right. Did you guys do it? What the fuck is ICB doing out here? You know, I thought they'd be like, fuck, yeah. You know, and he's like, man, fuck that.

Come out there, you know. So we went out there. And man, when we got up on the stage, that place, I mean, when everybody saw us on the cameras and it hit the screens on the size, that place fucking popped. Me and Shaggy were like, what the fuck. Yeah, I would imagine. That's what I would have guessed. I would say. Time changed, man.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You know, like, we all, sorry, all the people that are like, um, the. all the people that were in industry, the writers, the program directors, all that stuff, especially the reviewers and all that that were used to slam us and just, you know, just to fuck out of us. We made like USA Today's worst album twice in a year. You know what I'm sure we didn't do, though. You know what I did?

I think we did too. I think we did too. And so yeah, you know, but it's just like now usually, usually it's. something's written about us, it's positive, you know what I mean? Yeah, but I think, like, I actually think if you guys went and did some festivals, which you could, you, if you put your minds to it, you got on the, on the, on the, on the, on the phone and did your thing, you could likely go and do some festivals. You would have a completely different experience than you had.

You would have that same experience. You would go and people would be celebrating that you're there. And like, I think I would bet a ton of money on it. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. It would be cool, like, just to see, you know, for us, you know. And so we started doing, we do like two festivals a year, you know. Right.

But, man, it sure would be cool to be doing more festivals. We got to do it. You know, that's my only complain. I was just saying it would be dope, though, man. Like, festivals are fucking fun. Yeah. Yeah, man. Like, some big-ass.

crowds like that, you know, it's dope, man. It feels, it feels good knowing everything you're doing they're seeing for the first time. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's exciting, you know. And that's the, to me, if we go and play a festival, which we likely will, you know, we're talking about maybe next year or something.

I don't know, we're trying to figure out when we would go play shows. But like, most of the people that we'd be playing in front of had never seen us. Yeah. Where are you playing? in Vegas we're playing when we were young. What's that? It's like this big rock festival, lots of like pop punk and, you know, all that emo and all that stuff. I mean, not just that stuff, but like lots of bands kind of in from the world we came from.

That's a dope experience. I think it's like us. It's Green Day, blink, us. Oh, man. 30 seconds to Mars. I think Newfound Glory. I think like a bunch of bands. like Thursday, maybe a bunch of bands.

On one bill. On one bill. Okay, hold on. And you're saying that most of that crowd is going to never have seen you. Maybe they haven't, I want to bet a bunch of them have not seen us live. I want to bet. What is a bunch? Are you saying like at least half?

Uh-huh. At least half. I feel like we haven't toured since they, like, I feel like that. I think there'll be a decent percentage. I'm excited to play it. Of people that haven't seen you guys. you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

But, you know, the amount of people that would find the way anyway into that show or whatever it is. Yeah. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I'm saying? A lot of them are.

They could call the, whatever the elect, whatever he said, the festival was, all that music. Yeah. Call it whatever. Put that line up on the one stage. They're going to, there's going to be enough people finding their way in there to see you guys. Yeah.

I mean, it's a big, it's a big crowd. We, we're excited to play it. We took the show literally just because it, like, looked like a lot of fun. Fucking bad, man. They had one last year. We didn't get to do it. So we were like, if we get the chance to play that, we're going to play it. So it's the first show in like five years.

So we had to practice. Man, there's a festival called Blue Ridge. Yeah. Have you heard of that? Mm-mm. What the fuck is that what's called? Is it called Blue Ridge? Blue Ridge Rock Festival.

Yes, Blue Ridge Rock Festival. We were booked on that last year, you know. And we were like, man, it's a festival. I hope it's like a festival. You know what I mean? Like me and Shagga were talking. We're like, man, I hope it's like a fucking festival. You know, good experience, everything you wanted to be, you know.

Was it? We got there. It was a fucking festival. It was dope. How was it? How did you guys? Fresh. It was fresh.

It was everything is shit. you wanted it to be. We rocked the fuck out of that bitch. We came out in these boxes. It looks at where there's rapper on the two boxes. It looks like two giant presence, you know. Right. And then these two supposed kids in like 90s or whatever come dancing out and pulling the

fucking rapper off the boxes to the crazy music or whatever. And there's these two boxes of action figures. It's me and shaggy in the thing. You know what I'm saying? We're standing there. dope then we busts through the boxes and start rocking

the action figures come to life come on Joel that's fresh that's great it sounds great it's dope man in front of that massive

fucking crowd that shit was fresh how many festivals you guys do a year oh shit like I said maybe too okay you know but we put that

we put on a fucking show man and we don't even have to perform with Fago right no we just replaced the Fago with confes Right.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. All the clowns come out. We got the clowns coming out and fucking thrown, confetti, you know what I'm saying? And it's just a very appealing to the retinal holes. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? We put on visuals, you know what I'm saying?

And we've done that a lot. You know, a lot of rap don't do that, you know what I mean? Yeah. A lot of rappers just kind of rap, you know what I mean? You go to their concert, it's like whatever the stage is, give me the mic, you know what I mean? you know what I mean. Yeah. But we've always been trying to do a big show to what we do, you know what I mean?

But I'm not knocking rap either because a lot of times that is their flavor. Yeah, everybody's got it. Raw. You know what I'm saying? Like just give me the mic. You know, I don't need all that shit. That's appealing about that artist, you know what I mean? Yeah.

And in hip hop, it's more appealing to be like that. I mean, it's more of a trend to be like that, you know. Right. But we've always been trying to be the word, I said, yeah, thank you. I said, yeah, theatric. And you live in Detroit year-round. Yeah. Okay.

How often are you home versus on the road? Shit, we stop touring. Right. Yeah. All we do now is play our annual events. Right. So that's... It's like three or four days?

Yeah, three or four days at the gathering. You know, then we got the big ball of the Christmas party. Right. You know, which we do in New Year. York on a boat. Then we got fucking Hollow Wicked. Okay. We do every holiday.

This year we're doing the 30th annual in Detroit. Every year we play Halloween, you know. Then we got Juggler Weekend, which is an event we have in a different city. The cool thing is most of the people that come to Juggle the Weekend are from different places. Right. Right. It usually fills the small venue right away, you know, like a, like a, like a, like a,

1500 Sheeter or something, you know? Right. And so we always go to a venue that's cool to basically vacation at, you know, not venue, but an area. Yeah. Like we'll go to Vegas or we'll go to fucking New Orleans or we'll go to, you know, L.A., you know, somewhere so a lot of the juggalo's that are flying in for that event can most of the time be somewhere they never, they've never been to, you know what I mean?

Yeah. That's what we kind of plan to do with that event, you know? Cool. And so, yeah, ICP stopped touring. And we're going to do a farewell tour, though, you know? Right. Because I had heart failure a couple of years ago, right? Oh, wow.

I didn't know that. Yeah. And I could still perform, you know what I mean? But it was like I had to slow down, you know what I mean? So anyway, I had this procedure. It's called effibulation. Yeah. And after they did that procedure, I'm where I was before anything happened.

You know what I mean? And they said it would be like that for like six or seven years, you know? And so I'm like, okay. It may be longer, it may be shorter, you know what I mean? Right. But right now, I'm as physically normal as I was before the fucking heart failure. Do you have to like make any lifestyle changes or anything like that? like that? No, because it's the same except for your heart is beaten at an irregular pace,

you know? Okay. So like if you're running or something, you'd be winded quicker, you know what I mean? And you might be used to running like you normally can. You know what I mean? And then all of a sudden, you got this now, so it's dangerous, you know what I mean? But when you, like the doctor told me, when you pace yourself and you realize you just got to take it easy, you know what I mean? You still do anything you could do normal. I was, before I had a procedure, I was cutting songs. We did two concerts, you know what I mean? And it's like, nobody even noticed, you know what I mean?

When did it happen where you sat home? I didn't even notice. When you had the heart failure, were you at home? Where were you? Where were you? How did that go down? Oh, I don't know. Yeah, I just all of a sudden was like noticing I'm getting winded more, you know what I mean? Oh, so it was happening over time.

Yeah, I felt like, I felt like, why am I getting, why am I getting winded? Like just, like I walk out to the studio, which is in my, I mean, in my yard, right? I got a pole barn that was converted into a studio. Right. So I go in there and I'm like, sit down and I'm like, damn, I feel like I just walked a block. Right. You know what I mean? So after a while of that,

You went to the doctor. Yeah. And then you got checked out. Yeah. And this was like right before cold, right at the, was it at the brink of COVID? Yeah, at the brink of cold. At the beginning of it? Yeah.

Wow. So you had to kind of be careful during COVID too because you're going through that hard stuff too. Yeah. Maybe I'm wrong, man. I'm really bad. Plus I ate a fucking big bag of gummies. Oh, weed gummies?

Yeah. Okay. That's cool. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I can't remember if fucking, um, when that was. And, um, yeah. But it was in the past few years.

So it was either before or after in the middle. It was like two years ago. Okay. Or three. So that would be like right in the, right in the middle of COVID, basically. Maybe it was. Yeah. It was.

COVID was 20, though, because. COVID was 2020, really. Because when I went to the doctor. 2021. They did the EKG and all that. Yeah. And the ultrasound. They told me to come back and don't do nothing, you know.

Right. So me and my brother were talking and was just like, oh, now, I can't be good. That don't do nothing. And does your brother live near you? Yeah, he lives with me. Oh, he lives with you. Yeah. Okay, great.

Yeah. That's my boy, man. Yeah, that's your best friend. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, my brother's my best friend. Yeah, like mine too. I don't count my brother when I say my best friend because

it's deeper. Yeah, he's my brother, you know. Yeah. And it's like, or your girlfriend or your wife. Right. That might be your best friend. Right, right. But I don't count that because that's for me, you know what I mean?

But my best friend is Joey Shaggy, you know what I mean? Yeah, I think that's great. I like that. I like that about you guys. Yeah, man. I've seen his naked butt and everything. Yeah, you guys have shared a lot of years together. And you got a couple kids, right?

Yeah. How old are they? Well, my son, JJ's with me out here right now. I saw, is your son just graduated? Yeah, man. Okay, I saw that on Instagram. Yeah, man, I bought him that motherfucking track hawk. Yeah, yeah, you got on the car.

Man, when I pulled it off the lot, first of all, when I started it, that motherfucker was like, and I was like, this thing, he got no muffler? I didn't know what to go ahead. Dude, those jeeps are fast. It was like, was he stoked? It was growling, dog. And then I fucking pulled it off on the eight mile and it was like, you know. And right before I pulled it on, I'm sorry, Bavillard.

Right before I pulled it off, the dealer guy was like, listen, I want to tell you, those cars are getting jacked everywhere. Right. Be careful. He was like, those in Hellcats are the most wanted cars. All right. Right. Dude, be careful. Those cars are going left and right.

Where do you live, you know? And I'm like, all right. I got it. You guys living in a pretty nice area, though? I do, yeah, yeah. He'll be all right. Yeah, I'm out there. Oh, yeah, I'm out there.

Fuck that. I ain't staying where, uh-uh. Yeah, yeah. Me too, by the way. I'm moving to a nice and stay where I can find. Fuck for that. I'm keeping the real, man. No, no.

I're going to reduce. But, yeah, man. So I pull out on the eight mile and it's going, the thing is insane, right? and right when I get to the light this car pulls up next to me and it's four dudes with the rags over their eyes.

Oh wow. You know what I mean? Looking at it's just like, right? I'm like, oh shit, I didn't go a block. You know what I mean? And then I looked and it was some sort of

old person transportation thing. Oh, okay. It was like, they were wearing masks for health reasons. scared of shit so yeah so uh the sales guy got you um so your son graduated you got him a car that's awesome by the way yeah man i told him that if he did it i didn't do it i dropped down the ninth grade right

you guys are close that's my everything you know what i mean that's awesome him and my daughter you know what i mean it's um i'm a very very emotional man yeah so um for me i'm a very emotional man yeah so um for me emotion a lot of times is hurtful. Right. It's painful to feel that much. Exactly. That deep. And when I think of my son, it's always a lot of times like a quick hit in the heart or hitting the gut, you know.

Because I love him so much. You know what I mean? And my daughter, too, you know what I mean? Yeah, I think. My dad was a punk-ass bitch. Yeah. I thought that right away when you said that, that to hear you say that about your own kids, I can feel how much you love them.

And I feel the same way about my kids. I love them. I can't explain. I don't think they'll ever understand the way I feel about them. And I know it's because I didn't get to have that experience with my own dad. So I think there's something about, I think we share probably a lot of the same stuff in common. and when you didn't get to have that growing up and then you have these kids,

all you want to do is give them the opposite of what you felt and what you went through. That's right. And people say you're spoiling on it. Yeah, no, I don't care about that, yeah. Man, I'm just like, it's so hard. And here's the thing. I won't lie, I was terrible that, bro.

I was terrible. I was getting them everything. I could possibly imagine they want them to do. But I think we, I think we are all bad at it. I think we're all bad at it though, because I struggle with the same thing. Like, I want to give my kids everything. If I know they're into something, I'll just go. Me too, I'm going all loud.

Kid in a candy store. If you're watching YouTube, I'm like, hey, you want to do a YouTube show? You want to? Yeah, yeah. With the back room, you know, I just start, I'm just ready to go behind anything they want to do. You know what I mean? My son's playing a video game. I'm like, let's live stream.

Let's get paid. You're so fucking good at it. You know what I mean? Yeah. You just want him to have. I'm not that bad, but yeah, you know, he does it on his own. He's used to live stream. Yeah, but like I think the thing is, is we want our kids to have the very best experience

we can possibly give them. And we had such a bad one that we're, it's like we're working from a deficit there. And so we're just trying to give our kids this good experience. and we know the pain of the of life and we want to protect them from that as long as we can right no doubt and we're and then we're coming from poverty you didn't get to go and pick out legos or go pick out no this or that so when you go to the mall and you can afford anything you want at the mall you're going to buy everything your kids want because that's just that's the way I think is like when I go and take my my wife always laughs because she always says you love

the mall and I say yeah I love the mall because I can afford everything there when I go to the mall I feel like I'm the richest guy in the mall right and and I and I always remember like going to the mall the first time where I could actually buy something and feeling maybe it was that first time I got paid and I went to the mall and I felt like I was the man that gave you. me such a love for the mall, but I will take my kids to the mall and buy up the whole place. Like, we'll go to the Lego store. We'll go here. We'll go there. And people must think, at least when they were younger, and now they're older, you know, they don't want to be seen with me as much at the mall. But when they were younger, you go to that stage. Yeah, they're like,

that ain't fucking cool. Yeah. Yeah. I want to just drop me off with my friends. But for many years, we would just go to the mall, buy up everything. And my wife would get so mad because, she's like you always go overboard. I was like, I know, I'm supposed to go overboard. I'm their dad. But I think it's that whole you have in you, for me anyways. I think it was that I never got to do that as a kid and no one did that for me. But I always dreamed of it.

I always dreamed of a shopping spree at the mall. Me too, but what I worry about, honestly, is because my son don't ask me for shit, ever. Yeah, mine doesn't know. I'll buy the New Jordans or something. And I'm like worrying like, how much? I don't even know if he likes Jordans. Yeah. You know what I mean?

And I hope he's just wearing him because he knows I think they're cool. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I don't get fucking. What do he likes? I just want to know. Tell me, I'll get him. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Like, I'm down with it, you know. But he's the most, I was going to say, as much as I've always been trying to do that for him. He and my daughter are the most unspoiled. Yeah. I can't think. I was telling Rudy yesterday. One of my friends.

I don't know. I can't think it was a single time they've asked me for anything. Yeah. My son asked me if he could go see a DJ in Denver one time and I took him and his boy out there. And that's like it. He never asked me nothing.

Ask me for nothing, you know? And so, and when he has, as when he has in a few times, I could think that where I had to say no when he was younger, it was never no problem. Yeah. You know what I mean?

He was like, okay, you know, and I'm so fortunate, but I'm worried. Because it's not the way I expected it. Like my household was so fucking rocky. Yeah. You know what I mean? There's a fucking war going on all time. Yeah. Somewhere.

You know what I mean? And I get along so good with my kids, you know? That it's, I just, maybe it's just the panic in me. You know what I mean? I don't know, but I'm always afraid. Yeah, I think that we're always going to second guess our own ability to parent when we didn't have a model that was good. I'm lucky my brother always kind of says it to me because I had kids first. And I'm always like, I don't know.

I can't tell if I'm a good dad. People will say you're a good dad because you're there. I mean, I'm definitely there and I'm definitely not. Don't yell. I'm not a yeller. I'm like a kid most of the time with them. It's like when we hang out, I think I just want them to have a good time. But I'm always going to second guess my ability to be a father

because my dad wasn't around for a big, big part of my life. And so I just don't think I had a good model. My mom was a shit, man. Yeah, my mom was. My mom is still everything to me, you know what I mean? She worked hard, huh? Does she live near you now? Yeah, well, that's the thing.

We don't know why she has to live so far. She won't move over to where we're all at. Is she still where she's still where she's always been? No, but she moved like probably about an hour up north, you know. Right. But the hour is especially long during any type of day traffic, you know what I mean? But anyway, it's no excuse, but you guys are close. Yeah, we're close.

I just wish we could be like, you know, three times of way. week type of shit. Right. Because she's getting old, you know. Right. And yeah, man, but she's definitely the shit, you know. She's having a hard time right now, though, you know, because, yeah, man, I'm 51. Right.

And I'm her youngest son. You know what I mean? And we have my older brother and then my sister's one or two years older than us. Okay. Yeah. And are you guys all close? Yeah. Oh, that's nice.

Yeah. But me and my brother, hang on. Yeah, you guys are super tight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's pretty much the only one I can tell anything. Right. You know what I mean? That's when you know somebody's shit in your life.

Right. You can tell them anything. No, but for real. Think of that statement. You can tell them anything. You know what I'm saying? Anything. You know what I mean?

Yeah, or they can even see you. that's what I really can test a real real real real real real real friend they can see you at your worst they could see you one thing I know about my brother is he can see me when I'm scared

because you know what like think about that how many people will we let see us when we're afraid and I'm talking not afraid of I'm talking like afraid of life you know like in your weak moment

where you're like I can I do this but like all at the deepest level of that. At your lowest, I feel like I'm not good enough to, or I feel like I don't have it. Like that to me is like, that's your ride or die person who you can expose your weakness to

and your, like, fear, your fears. You're low, like, also like, we don't let other people see our low self-esteem. Right? If I'm like, I don't want to go, to this thing, not because I don't want to go, because I don't feel good enough to be there.

I don't feel like, I don't like the way I look. Like, I will tell my brother that. I'll tell my twin brother that, right? Like, that's the person I can say all, you know, like if I don't, that's that person to me, like, that you can expose yourself to in the weakest moments, because we all have them. I don't care who, who you are. If you don't have those moments, then I don't think you're a real person to me. Because I think we all have that moment where we're like, afraid of something that's other,

if other people knew, they would like laugh at us or make fun of us for it. You know what I mean? I think that's my brother for me too. I get fucking relief out of not keeping those secrets. Yeah. Yeah.

Because like I lived my entire life, I wouldn't give a fuck if I was on camera the entire time. Right. You know what I mean? Nothing changes. Right. You know,

it's real. I have fucking, this is who I am, I don't front. Right. You know what I mean? My goal is to not hurt fucking nobody.

Yeah. I don't want to hurt nobody and it's a fear. You know what I mean? I don't want to hurt nobody. I don't want to scare nobody but I want to be here and want to have fun.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And I want to matter and I'm aggressive and I have drive. Yeah. You know what I mean? But I don't want to hurt nobody. You know what I mean?

right yeah i get that though from you i don't i i feel like what you guys have what what you've done with music but then when i when i think about your you and your kids i think that you're somebody who wants to put joy into the world positivity that's it our shit is entertainment you know what i'm saying it's a clown fucking paint on my face yeah don't let you know i'm about entertainment yeah they what What the fuck are you thinking? And you take me so fucking seriously, you know what I mean? Yeah. Well, I'm glad you came on here.

Fuck yeah, man. And I'm really happy you came. Me too, brother. It's great to meet you. You too, bro. Is there anything else you want to talk about? Shit, man. I just want to give my girls' only fans a plug.

Plug the only fans. Go ahead. First time. Sarah Roo-E-R-U-E-R-U. Okay. What? There you go. I told that girl.

We will plug. That's great. How long have you guys been dating? About three days now. Oh, great. Nothing like the, nothing like the excitement of a new relationship.

It's one of the best. That's great. That's great. That's awesome. Congratulations. Thank you, brother. Awesome. Great to meet you, dude.

You too, my man. That's cool. Can't wait to hear this. Yeah, man. Dope. I appreciate you having you, brother. Oh, dude, thank you. For real.

It was great. Thank you for checking out. Today's episode of Artist Friendly with Violent J of Insane Clown Posse. I hope you enjoyed today's show. Don't forget, you can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify. If you really love the episode, you can rate it and review it on your favorite podcast,

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