Ask Dr. Drew - Ask Dr. Drew - Kay Smythe - Episode 3

Episode Date: December 18, 2019

For 2019’s final live #ASKDRDREW show, Dr. Drew is joined by Kay Smythe with appearances by Mike Catherwood, Jillian Barberie, Lauren Sivan, Leeann Tweeden… and even Rudy Cisneros! Carol of LA Vagrants chimes in. She’s become a powerful leader in the fight against homelessness and criminal vagrancy. Her Twitter account, @LAVagrants, is dedicated to documenting some of the most disturbing images from across the city. Also, we speak to Travis Binen
 whom is a member of the Venice Neighborhood Council.  Kay Smythe's work to promote the legalization of cannabis and MDMA for veterans got her FIRED as a magazine editor, but also awarded specialist visas by both the Obama and Trump administrations. Kay joins Dr. Drew to discuss wokeness, medicinal + recreational drug use, and to answer caller questions. Miss the live show? Get an alert next time Dr. Drew is taking calls: DrDrew.tv Thank you to our sponsor Social CBD. DrDrew.com/socialCBD Kay Smythe is a social scientist, writer, and researcher. Find her writing online at http://kaysmythe.com and follow her at http://instagram.com/KaySmythe Episode 3 of Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation, Susan Pinsky, and Emily Barsh. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. Hey everybody, welcome to Another Ask Dr. Drew. We are so grateful to be able to be here with you today. The phone number, of course, 984-2-Dr-Drew or 984-237-3739. Coming up, I have a bunch of special callers, people from my KBC radio world, where at the end of the month, we will be parting company. No hard feelings at all. It's been six great years there.

And so some of the people that I've had the pleasure to work with over the years are going to call in and say hello and goodbye. So we'll have that. Of course, we'll have your calls. In just a minute, I'll be introducing my guest. She has a lot to say as well. She has spent a lot of time talking about the explosion of mentally ill living on the streets of America's big cities. She also is a social scientist, writer, researcher, model, influencer.

She has promoted the legalization of cannabis and MDMA for veterans. That got her fired from a journalist job as a magazine editor, but she also was awarded specialist visas by both the Obama and Trump administrations. She is here to talk about that and more. I'll tell you about her more in just a second. I want to give a special shout out to Spore2002. We really appreciate you having been the moderator of the Dr. Drew subreddit, Spore. Thank you. I noticed some very kind

words by you and others saying that you were saying about this particular show, so I want to thank you all for listening, and I want to thank all the people on the subreddit. Are we having a technical problem? Spore 2012. What did I say? Spore 2002. I beg your pardon.

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Now let me give you the more complete intro to my guest Kay Smythe she's an internationally practicing writer socio-demographic research specialist and awarded consecutive visas under the Obama administration you can tell me what kind those are what's a zero one visa it's an oh one it's a specialist visa um it's usually you're an asset in other words yeah yeah you're my second russian asset that i've spoken to on this program we had we had papadopoulos's wife last week and uh if i had to cast a russian asset she'd be that you'd be my mi6 mi16 yeah definitely you'd be my mi16 cast so there you go k is best known for tackling stigmatizing behaviors in human capital like cannabis, nudity, gangs.

Her work has evolved into an amalgamation of policy-changing actions and data based on human behavior trend forecasts. That's why I want Kay here, and that's why I'm delighted to be able to discuss this. All so much is going on in our country that we pretend isn't. So one of the reasons you caught my attention is you tagged me on a Twitter feed where you were talking about homelessness. You wrote a little article about the holidays, right? Yeah, you know, just how wonderful it is to come to Los Angeles and, you know, go down

to the beach and go swimming amongst the needles and, you know, the plague and God knows what else. Right. Yeah, it's a wonderful place to be during the holidays we're like no policing either and the wildfires and oh it's just great it's awesome and you've been here how long uh since 2015 i like started coming out here to see if it was where i wanted to be and then in 2016 i got my first visa so you've been in the southern california los angeles area for three years give or take right and in those

three years you seem to have gained insight into what's going on here well beyond politicians that have lived there their whole life what why are you have magical insight into what's happening here I don't I think they see it too they just get paid not to see it so they have no motivation to go uh outside their front door and deal with their constituents and mitigate this issue when they're making so much money from it so that's the so-called homeless industrial complex right yeah so this is ways of of selling the the public on these tremendously expensive single person units yeah that costs like seven hundred thousand dollars we'll get we'll get converted to condos soon enough for the developers no problem but if a homeless person ends up in

any of these buildings i will eat all of my words if the buildings get built at all well i i'm certainly some of the transient homeless may get in there right which is which is not the population we're concerned with we're concerned with the chronically homeless, which are the drug-addicted, mentally ill on our streets, which you see fairly clearly as a social scientist researcher. Well, I think it's also the fact that, you know, when they're having a bad day, they tend to chase people down the street too.

I think you can't, it's not something you can avoid seeing. I don't think I'm alone in the fact that you know like i've been followed home several times i've been assaulted i have all of my friends in this town have dealt with an issue with a mentally ill homeless person in some way shape or form or like a criminal homeless person in some way shape or form and those are the issues that i think uh are being ignored that are going to be to our detriment and that's why I wrote the article because it's, you know,

there's like three people dying a day, I think it is. In Los Angeles County. Yeah, and that's Los Angeles County alone. That's not even all of California. Or Washington, Oregon. They have a similar problem. It's a genocide.

It's a genocide and it's happening on our streets. Okay. Yeah. I could not have said that better. It's a genocide on the streets of southern california yeah and that's why i have trouble believing the politicians know what's going on i i understand they're paid not to see it and so they're it's sort of motivated thinking right it's cognitive distortion i get that yeah but to not wake up every day and go three people are going to die

on my watch what do i need to do about that i i as a clinician can't live with it i don't understand how they do i mean i don't know whether it's a case of just like these inherent unconscious biases where because i see like even the people that i watch that i learn from who are in my kind of demographic they go on television shows to talk about this issue too and even they're prevaricating about it being a housing crisis so I don't know if it's just like these people are being so indoctrinated into truly believing it's a housing crisis that they are just completely numb to it at this point or if it is just they're making so much money I mean at this level they're not going to get like re-elected if they come out and say what's actually going on.

I mean, actually, ironically, they might if things go well over the next two years. Right, as the public kind of wakes up to what's actually going on here, right? Well, yeah. We've all been kind of victims of this propaganda. And I don't know whether it's just kind of leeching into the political elite, too. But, again, I find that very hard to believe, just personally. I do too. We have a bunch of calls coming in.

I'm trying to get, we're going to be chatting a little bit more about this particular problem. I also want to talk to Kay about your other sort of passionate issues like drug legalization. Give us a, we have to go to break in a minute,

but give me a little primer on that too. So despite the fact that I am for decriminalization, full decriminalization of all drugs, I'm actually for the full legalization of the whole bloody lot. Like it would be great if we just legalized all drugs, made it a legitimate industry. And I'm going to interrupt you and say, is that based on the idea that prohibition only fuels black market? Exactly. Does that really affect the individuals using it? It affects a black market. Exactly. Does that really affect the individuals using it?

It affects a black market. Exactly. This is going to sound really cold and blunt, but people who are addicted to dangerous substances, that addiction is always going to exist. It would be great if we could legalize all these drugs, use that tax revenue to set up harm prevention, interventions in general,

set up decent education systems to teach people about the realities of drug use. I kept saying that about cannabis and yeah here we are in california legalize it and i don't see any revenue coming to the the help people with substance issues it doesn't seem to i don't know they trust the government to do that that's one of my concerns well like this is why i trust decriminalization like i am a huge proponent of decriminalization across europe because we have the social knowledge, the social capital, and the social systems in place to do that.

I mean, we don't even have a healthcare system in America. Like everyone keeps talking about healthcare as if it's a thing that exists. Right. We'll talk about this because you're talking about what to do if there was legalization. Most European countries already have something in place

to manage that. Yeah. And we have nothing to manage that. Nothing at all. We could. We could do it. We just pretend we don't need to or something i don't know what that is you're from wales did you grow up there uh yes and you went to college in plymouth in the uk in england and what was your training in i did my undergraduate degree was a geography degree so i didn't even split of human and physical geography because the idea was that there would be green jobs to go into after graduation.

They do not exist. So I specialized at the end in human geography, looking at recreational drug use versus problem drug use. So it's kind of an epidemiology degree. Yeah, I would say it's far more sociological. Like by the end, it was very sociological. Which is why you were able to look at the streets of Los Angeles

and draw some conclusions. Oh, yeah. Easily. Just as a researcher's eye, you look at the data and pretty simple. Knee-jerk reaction. You just walk outside

and go, okay, I'm going to deal with this. All right, we've got to take a little break. We are lining up your calls actively.

Again, the number is 984-2-DR-984-237-3739. We will talk more to Kate. We will get your calls after this. The CBD industry is still pretty much the Wild West when it comes to claims and criticisms. The science is catching up with the industry. We will have clinical science soon enough. And there seems to be an overwhelmingly positive response these days to CBD's efficacy. We've all heard the reports. And luckily, our good friends at Social CBD are raising the industry testing standards. They like to say they are test obsessed. Social CBD works closely with their suppliers and multiple third-party labs to ensure

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But Kay and I are still talking about the things she is passionate about. One of the things before we go on, that needle thing, that's actually something I'm actively involved with. I've always had a vision my whole career that needles – we should find some kind of technology that just eliminates needles as a problem because I sort of cut my teeth taking care of AIDS patients and then drug addicts, and needles were always part of my problem. And that device I'm very excited about.

So if you're cleaning up streets, if you are diabetic yourself, take a look at that thing. It makes needles not a biohazard and no possibility of a needle stick so that's why i'm excited about that what do you think about needle exchanges so i have no problem in principle with needle exchanges right i say i'm you're you're coming from the perspective of harm avoidance harm reduction right well that's what i'm used to from yeah right and i i have no in principle problem with any of that and the when it can save lives i'm actively for it the problem is as an isolated policy it's not right you have to have a whole set of things around it to make it worthwhile now in this country we don't do

needle exchanges we do needle giveaways we just you come just giveaways. You don't have to exchange. You don't have to bring anything back. We just give you needles. Well, that's like completely counterproductive to the whole point. Yes, Kay. Yes. This is why I needed to invent a device like that because we have carpets of needles in this city and in San Francisco because we just do needle giveaways. Because, well, drug addicts, you can't expect them to bring their needles back.

That's not the way to treat a drug addict yeah the way to treat a drug addict go hey well i'll give you a needle get your ass back here with the needles i gave you yeah and next time i maybe we'll have to do something else or next time i'll have you arrested or so you have to motivate them you have to you have to really be tough to get because they're in the disease state yeah now back to what you were saying about harm avoidance you you were saying that you think we should legalize everything right um yeah i'm just uh getting my notes up here go ahead get your notes and i'll look at some more calls too and i'll get to this call in a second go ahead well it's like okay so one of my biggest concerns about coming on today was like i really didn't want to come across as you know when you talk about drug decriminalization and i'm going

to say i'm not for it in america that makes me sound like a fascist but i'm only not for it in america because the way that makes you sound like a socialist actually oh really well because then it's saying well my social welfare programs we have in europe are superior i mean they are like i don't want to be like that guy but i mean i don't know how long they're going to be around like after the last election don't know how long these things like boris johnson's election okay yes yeah yeah you know but again like the way the um say a country like portugal has gone about dealing with drug decriminalization they've had what like a 60 percent reduction in diseases like aids um like rates like i think there's one stat like rates of children trying drugs at like

age 16 is higher but that's not a real stat that's just because kids now feel comfortable admitting to the fact that they're going to try drugs at that age because there's not the same stigma and consequences yeah so i'm blank and help me out you guys on the guy's name i'm going to my crack producer uh he wrote a book about portugal oh i'm i shared the podium with him with governor christie you could look at that you'll you'll see his name in a second anyway he was pointing at portugal but everyone always points at portugal when you talk about drug legalization and back when i was sharing the the stage with this gentleman you're gonna you're gonna find this in a second i'm sure what's his name no no no um they they forget to mention that every other country on earth no every other

country on earth takes care of its sick people we do not we we have decided that you are at your liberty to be sick until you die if you have a brain disease. Unless it's dementia. Then we jump in. So brain diseases that we cannot affect the course of, we jump all over. Yeah. But brain diseases that we can dramatically affect the course of, particularly if we intervene early, hey, they're at their liberty to do that, man. Yeah.

We don't do that man yeah we don't we don't do that in this country we let them have their schizophrenia until they devolve to the point that they're retrievable we let them have their drug addiction until they die we have their bipolar disorder until they commit suicide that's insane no other country does that right yeah no other country so in portugal when they legalized everything, they anticipated things like, if you wanted to do your heroin, we will give you that heroin and we'll watch you. We'll have nurses administer it. Yep. So harm avoidance, which I have no problem giving heroin addicts heroin. I don't. If people don't want recovery, and by the way, I've been very in favor of these alcoholic houses where

people are allowed to go and drink as much as they want because they have behavior enhancement specialists there. So you can get them and talk to them and develop a rapport with them while you're letting them practice their disease. But if they practice their disease unchecked, what happens? You're not a clinician. What happens? They die. They die.

They die. And in this country, we let them die, period. That's just the way it goes. And that I cannot. Now, you should know, even though I'm going along with your hypothesis about all this, I'm not fully there with you because I worked. I don't know if you know. I worked in this field for like 30 years.

And so I saw the benefits of having certain axes to wield. It really helps people get well. You know what it does? It really does. And if you take away all those motivating kinds of leverages, it's okay. I mean, if we just say that's what we're going to do, I'm not going to, it's better than this,

what we're doing now, which is nothing. I would prefer personally some sort of intermediate sort of something and i agree so the way that we're taught about drugs in the uk i think is a great example of how to teach people about drugs um it was the most um i don't know what's the word i'm looking for it was liberal in the sense that it was honest. So I actually had a drugs counselor come in and speak to my entire year group. And we had this every year from age, I think, 10 through 16. You get the same class every year. Do the same thing with comprehensive sex education where we're taught, hey, if you're going to go out and say, use ecstasy, don't drink too much water when you go out because you can actually drown

from doing that so do you know what when we go out you get your brain swelling yeah i mean we were told like we were drowned it's just like oh my god like that's terrifying yeah and so we're taught about drugs in a way to almost respect them to the point of them only being appropriate when recreational and then when people bridge into that problem drug use it's immediately recognizable like out here people seem to think that their opinion on what constitutes like problem versus recreational recreational drug use dictates what it actually is and it's a very personal opinion yeah as opposed to a clinical threshold yeah i could talk about that all day johan harry johan harry emily got it johan harry is the guy i was thinking okay who uh who wrote a couple books

maybe gonna pull those out for me even and uh he points at portugal and some of his other he does not understand addiction at all he's not factually incorrect he's actually factually correct but he doesn't contextualize what he's deriving properly. You're filling out the whole story. I mean, we need stigma. Like there has to be a stigma attached to doing heroin, to doing meth, to doing these drugs. I'm not sure. In the sense of, oh God, this is a bad thing.

This person that I love is doing it bad. Yeah, like bad, dangerous, going to kill you. And I would argue that we have to start distinguishing between somebody with an addiction and the behaviors that result from addiction. Yes. And we should stigmatize those behaviors, but not stigmatize the drug addict per se. Well, when they're in those behaviors, yes, but not the drug addiction per se.

And I think this is maybe like, I don't know if it's like a cultural thing, but like when I say stigmatize, like if I came home and found that like I had a family member who was heavily addicted to heroin tough love that's what it means for me it's it's coming from a place of like I love you unconditionally I don't want you to die we're not going to do this so I'm going to be mad at you until you fix yourself and I agree there should be a certain amount of stick uh as much as there is carrot in that kind of treatment exactly yeah that's what you got you got you need both here let's go to this going to going to go to an anxiety question. This is Alyssa. Thanks for calling in and thanks for signing up at drdrew.tv.

What do you got? Uh-oh. Hey. There you are. I was listening. Sorry. I was listening to the Adam and Dr. Drew show and Adam was talking about

how you experienced anxiety once when you guys were about to go on stage and he forced you to go back out on stage anyway. You kind of worked through it. So my question is, do you deal with the anxiety or the thought of having anxiety attacks still? And if so, how do you deal with them? Because that is where my anxiety stems from, is just worrying about having those attacks again and trying to figure out how to deal

with that. I am going to recommend a book to you if I can find it very quickly that helped Chelsea from Teen Mom, who had the exact same syndrome. It is called Dare, A New Way to End Anxiety and Panic by barry mcdonough dare by barry mcdonough okay you got that okay and and that's when i was having panic attacks

for real when i was like 1920 and i was having disabling panic attacks and i was depressed and i had horrible generalized anxiety then i was living in constant fear of them because they were just paralytic i couldn't function with them and so just you know the way panic works the fear of the panic feeds on itself sometimes so it's panic about the panic that gets you really into a serious yeah yeah that's why that book that's why that book dare is very good in the particular episode you're talking about with me and adam i had just had a fight with john favreau on the air like a huge fight because he was he was about he was on loveline and mtv back in the day and we were filming this episode and a schizophrenic called in who was actively psychotic and really struggling

and favreau goes don't let anybody tell you to take those medications that's all doctors trying to make money and i went like hold on you're talking to a very very sick person do not and we got into like it got almost got like in each other's faces a bit because i i can't tolerate that i can't tolerate when people let sick people get endangered. And so we had a big fight. And then the next show, we were just doing back-to-back shows in those days.

The next show, I came out on stage, I was upset and I was upset and all of a sudden I started having a panic attack and I just said, I got to take a minute. And Adam came into my dressing room and goes, get your ass back out there. If I have to spend one more minute here, I'm going to kick your ass. And he goes, have to spend one more minute here i'm gonna kick your ass and uh he goes you're gonna you're fine you can deal with it and i did deal with it so that's the sort of dare technique now now to be fair that was you know compared to my old panic attacks that was

not a bad one and i could kind of push through it i just wasn't very effective on camera which i didn't i didn't like being. And he was like, I'm going to cover you. Get out. I'm going home for dinner. Let's get out of here. So that's what that was all about. But the other thing is I was mismanaged too. I did not get the proper medication or psychotherapy that I should have gotten. It really wasn't until years later that I got more comprehensive psychological services and they went away and so treatment works done properly okay you ever had panic uh nerves crippling nerves I don't know if it's the same kind of thing like different different like anticipatory nerves like coming on a show like this oh yeah absolutely um I've never had like the full-on anxiety.

Depression, definitely, but anxiety has been the one thing that I've slowly managed to avoid. I think it's just my ego, though, at this point. So, Chase and Scream, what's that? Say that out loud. Hari.

Yokan Hari? That wasn't the book that... No, it was some book about... I can't remember. It was something about the ghost. Anyway, if you want to get me off johan all right yeah uh alissa thank you for the call appreciate it you're gonna be you're still in that age group where your brain is prone to these things and i guarantee you will get better with time but i also will guarantee you the treatment works if it's properly done okay gotcha thank you so much. I appreciate it. All right. You got it.

Take care. Bye-bye. So, yeah, I had panic and anxiety. You know, to me, I was actually depressed when I was having all that panic attack, and the anxiety was more of a manifestation of the depression, and then the panic was on top of everything else. And I wondered, that was back when I never have liked cannabis, but I smoked it a bit in college. I

lived on a floor with a bunch of stoners and they were convinced I just wasn't doing it properly because how could I not love it? Because I didn't. And so they insisted that I do a little more with them and that panic was not far after that. And I have since then clinically seen people with really terrible panic attacks as though there's something for some people about the cannabis where it opens up a circuit where you can be more prone to panic oh hugely that's like 100 a thing i have so many friends that i say don't ever smoke pot like you'll be an absolute basket case like it's definitely i'm still intrigued i still attempt it too because everyone everyone oh it's so different today oh i highly I highly recommend it. So it's legalized here in California.

Do you agree with the way we've done it here? I know I'm very integrated into that community, and I'm not a huge fan of it, but I think the way it's been done, generally speaking, if we're going to legalize it the way we're going to legalize it, yeah, absolutely. You're fine with it.

I don't like the way that the businesses, like the private corporations have gone about it. It's going to be the next big tobacco. Oh, yeah. You're fine with it. I don't like the way that the businesses, like the private corporations, have gone about it. It's going to be the next Big Tobacco. Oh, yeah, 100%. And it would actually probably be better if Big Tobacco got involved, not that I'm a proponent of that. They are quietly behind the scenes getting involved. And I just keep reading stuff that Benjamin,

you know who Benjamin Rush is? Benjamin Rush was one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and he was he was george washington's doctor ended up killing george washington but but like like always the medical system will do you harm if you spend too much time with him but uh he just kept writing and writing writing about this tobacco thing i don't think it's going to go well i think businesses are getting he just kept predicting what took another 200 years to really develop that's crazy yeah and i and i feel i'm sort of feeling the same way about cannabis like i don't i don't think it's going to go well i'm worried about it i don't think anything in society is going to go well but we talk about

this i have a lot of hope for that good night good night nothing's going to go well cave smoking that's it we're done let's just all go back to the cave no hey i have some really really good calls coming here so let's try to get to some of these. This is Chris. Go ahead there, Chris. Hi, Dr. Drew. Hey, buddy. Thanks for having me on.

You bet. My father was a professor of medicine at UCLA for 35 years and the founding medical director of the Pritikin Longevity Center. Wow. Crazy. Yeah. the founding medical director of the Pritikin Longevity Center. Wow, crazy. Yeah, and so 40 years ago, he showed that with healthy living, we could reduce our blood pressure and get off drugs. But that information hasn't really filtered into the full medical system.

Well, I would argue that compared to, I remember the Pritikin Center, and I remember when I was in medical school, it was coming up sort of in the background quite a bit, and I would argue that pretty much most of what he was advocating has sort of become axiomatic in the sense that it's sort of accepted as true and good thinking, just we can't get anybody to do it. That's, I think, the sort of zone we're in now. Do you disagree? Well, I've been working with them for 20 years, and so I figured out that,

well, Hans Selye said symptoms of stress are fatigue, and so people who are tired don't want to exercise. And bad news stress turns off happy chemicals in our brains. And then we don't enjoy exercise. And we turn to junk food, nicotine, alcohol, and illegal drugs to turn happy chemicals back on. I like the construct. I would argue it's even more complicated. And your question here, I think, dovetails into what I'm thinking a little bit, which is that our childhood experiences are coming to bear on our

psycho-biological-emotional condition in the present. Definitely. Yeah, well, you explored the same thing in your awesome book cracked about traumatic experiences and addiction yep and but my more important question was the new california surgeon general nadine burke harris is on a mission to make healthcare trauma-informed. All for it. So I feel like that's relevant. All for it.

I got you. That's great. Yeah, everything. Everything. Criminal justice, everything. Psychiatric. Here's, it's, I have a flood of feelings about it. For sure, it's the right thing to do.

I am delighted that finally, you got to know, Chris, that in the 90s, people would, I was absorbing tons of criticism. There was even, believe it or not, a whole school of thought that said that adverse childhood experiences are overstated and really don't do anything to people in their adult life. So at LEAF, we've woken up from that slumber, right? Not only have we woken from that slumber, but now we're starting to talk about what to do about people that are traumatized. The idea of trauma-informed therapy or trauma-informed approach to everything, I totally agree with, but it's way more complicated than most of my peers understand.

And to do it well takes a lot of experience and a lot of training, and we're just not doing that right now. So that's my discomfort with this orientation. If we're going to accept that it's true, which it is, we must arm ourselves accordingly, which we are not. Does that make sense? Well, that's where I'm working with. My father's now 85, and he's got severe dementia. And he's gone to, it's easy for me, because I know his life history, to connect it to his traumatic experiences. The dementia? Over the last 10 years.

Be careful. Be careful. That's a jump. That's a jump. By the way, I used to work in a dementia hospital, and the first thing I noticed when I went in there was particularly the men. All the men had pictures of themselves by the bedside, and they were like admirals in the Navy and captains of industry

and just crazy stuff they'd been doing. And I started wondering. I thought, like you, I thought, oh, my gosh, stress has got to be the thing. It's got to be stress-inducing and dementia in these men. So I started interviewing their families. And to a person, they all said that this man had no stress. He loved his job, which confused me. But I found a common link amongst all of them.

None of them slept. They all restricted their sleep. So I'm of the opinion that that may be a bigger issue than the stress itself. Does your dad work excessively and not sleep? Oh, yeah, yeah. I agree that's definitely a factor. You know, when you're locked down, the brain gets a lot more blood. Yep. Yep.

Yep. But Nadine Burke Harris, the new California Surgeon General, has repeatedly pointed out that a high ACEs score, adverse childhood experiences, is a factor in dementia. That makes sense to me, but that doesn't mean it's causational, right? It may be that there are substance uses involved in that. It may be people aren't sleeping normally because of the ACE, which we know they don't. It may be other psychiatric conditions that are also associated with dementia. So again, don't be careful. This research needs to be parsed out very, very carefully. I appreciate your call, Matt. I've got to keep moving on.

I have no idea what you're pointing at, Ms. Producer. Oh, she wants me to look at my text that she's sending me. This is the – let's see. Oh, I've got Travis on the line. Let's get Travis in here. Why don't we? How do I get him on my thing here okay hold on this is going to take a little doing because there's about 40 things on my screen hold on he's already in travis are you

there travis i'm here dr drew can you i got you hear me? I got you, man. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you doing? We're good. We're here with... Okay. Let Travis block your face. Take my spotlight again. Do you guys know each other?

Yeah. I like Travis. I think he's a brilliant mind. Travis, you are part of the Venice Neighborhood Council. You had a recent poll on the mayor's leadership. Tell us about that. No? I'm actually not on the mayor's leadership. Tell us about that. No? I'm actually not on the neighborhood council.

I'm one of Venice residents that are in a group called Venice United. But that's right, though. The VNC did a poll, and basically what came of it was that I think it was like the vast majority of people, like 85% or 90%, were either dissatisfied with Mike Bonin and Mayor Garcetti or extremely dissatisfied with Mike Bonin or Mayor Garcetti. And was the primary reason the transience and vagrants here that are kind of under the guise of homelessness that are living in encampments and breaking into people's homes and assaulting people and doing drugs out in the open. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Do you live in Venice? I had to move from Venice because it had become such a crisis. I mean, I'm not going to pay like $2,000 for a glorified room when I can't walk to the shop in the middle of the day yeah yeah and but i'm hearing the frustration in travis's and the characterization of his what the what the other side calls his own unhoused neighbors

i i just call the sick people on the streets that are dying yeah is that eventually you're going to see horrible behaviors that's the nature of these conditions yeah and now and then eventually if we don't be if let's say horrible infectious disease breakout which is inevitable also you're going to start to see my fear is sort of vigilantism i mean i hear travis is on his last thread here what is the community doing well you want to answer well we see it all the time like if you go on the kind of localized next door um app people will post what are we going to personally do to deal with this issue trying to instigate the police can't do anything it's i say badge i meant vig vigilante vagilante ism she's from wells i mean that i mean if it was a group

of women i think that's what i'm going to call my group now. Why not? Part of the fourth wave feminist movement. It's fifth wave. What Travis really touches on, though, is the lack of common sense that went into the decision-making behind these policies that perpetuate these issues. Let's decriminalize drugs because it's going to be better for a handful of demographics throughout California. But to be fair, let me defend that decision. They also, at this stage, they're going to end up in prison. But just because they're drug addicts, they don't belong in prison. No, they don't.

Right. So we agree on that. Yeah. No, absolutely. So taking them out of prison is a good thing. Not onto the streets. Yeah. Not onto the streets.

It's like taking, have you ever heard the man falls down a hole analogy? No. Okay. So man falls down a hole analogy no it was okay so man falls down a hole it sounds like a sociologist thing it's i honestly i think it was from the west wing which i can't believe like i hate that because i do feel like the west wing kind of like ruined politics even though i do like that show um but okay so man falls down a hole and uh priest comes along he's like father father please help. I've fallen down this hole. I can't get out. The priest writes a prayer, throws it down or a couple of Hail Marys or whatever,

throws it down, carries on. Short while later, a doctor comes along and the guy's like, doctor, doctor, help me out of here. I've like fallen down. I can't get out. Help me. Doctor writes a prescription, throws it down the hole, moves along. Little while later, a friend comes along. Guy's like, oh my God, Joe, thank God you're here. I've been stuck down this hole moves along a little while later a friend comes along guys like oh my god joe thank god you're here i've been stuck down this hole for ages please help me out the friend jumps down the hole and the guy's like dude what are you doing like what are you doing he's like don't worry about it i've been down here before and i know my way out so that's how these laws need to be practiced they need to be built around understanding the human behavior that comes with addiction and so you would think in organizing policies you would talk to mental health professionals

or people who work in this field what a shocking what a shocking idea well what the leadership of california has done is just thrown like a bunch of dirty needles down the hole and just said like deal with it travis what are your what's your opinion on all this? You know, I actually am someone who voted for Prop 47, and in my opinion, it was a mistake because I think we need mandatory rehab, and I think what's happening is by making these drugs basically legal and making them from a felony to a misdemeanor, I think we've got a lot more people doing drugs,

and I get a lot of my information from homeless people, ex-homeless people, as well as the LAPD. Of course. I've got to tell you what I've heard. I'm sorry, go ahead. I was going to say, if you legalize drugs and trafficking and stealing to support your habit, my patients are coming. They're going to show up, and they're going to show up from all far and wide, from every land they're going to show up. That's what's happening. What I'm saying is I voted for Prop 47, but that was a mistake.

I don't think we should make these drugs legalized. I think that these drugs, meth and heroin, should still be illegal because, one, we need a deterrent. Two, these drugs are going to kill you eventually, and if you overdose, they could kill you immediately. And three, what's happening is when you start doing these drugs you don't really care too much about paying rent or mortgage you really will just camp out in a tent outside of your home and anybody who lives here they think and we'll tell you the same thing so i'm not saying throw them in jail with killers or hardened criminals but i am saying that we need like a mandatory rehab and so i think prop 47 was a huge mistake and i think we

need to make these drugs illegal again sure i mean yeah again i'm never going to say we should uh make drugs illegal because let me ask you this if we're not willing to set up the social network to deal with this yeah oh yeah no if that doesn't exist absolutely it's the next like most common sense policy but it's kind of like the same way also ends the genocide it does end the genocide but it doesn't just move the genocide into a prison like does that not then perpetuate the concentration camp just within the prison walls i don't know it's gonna be made that's yeah so i mean what we need to do is figure out how to monetize the mandatory rehabs but do it in such a way that it doesn't turn into another complex.

Yes. Yeah. Which it will. Which it will. Because that's the nature of human behavior. It's, yeah, incredibly sad. So other than modifying 47, Travis, any other plans? Well, I think the, you know, the answer,

and I've been saying this to a number of people, and we've got, you know, to me, it looks like about 90% of California has not been developed yet. So if you just go, we have plenty of land. If you just go 75, 100 miles east of Los Angeles, you could immediately provide beds, toilets, showers, rehab, Wi-Fi, and it's not going to cost $700,000 per unit, right? You can do this immediately and immediately get people off of the sidewalks and start improving their lives and the conditions they're living in.

And I think what's happening right now is like the two of you were stating is we've got this almost industrial complex that started with good intentions, but now it's turned into essentially profiting. And so you've got a lot of people that are just basically coming to Los Angeles for not just legalized drugs, but for the prospect of free housing and free food. And the problem is just getting worse. And if you talk to, you know, you look at what the mayor and Bonner are saying, and, you know, the party line is that every day 150 people fall into homelessness.

Well, I think at least in venice you got 150 or it looks to me like you have more transients coming to los angeles so those lawmakers there's a reason it's not allowed there's a lot of reasons it's not allowed you're not allowed to sleep on the sidewalks you know um for one thing it's just unsanitary conditions but another thing is you're just basically collecting you know um for one thing it's just unsanitary conditions but another thing is you're just basically collecting you know masses of people coming to los angeles for free sidewalk camping free services the promise of housing and essentially lawlessness and i think that's like i mean this is happening from across the country people are seeing los angeles they're seeing san francisco seattle as these again like just free living people will come here yeah you can do drugs yeah to come and hang out live the beach free it's they're just moving their lifestyles from other states when you eliminate property laws and you eliminate drug laws and you

let anything go my patients come my patients are going to show up. They'll do that until they die. You're literally fueling their death. Congratulations, Los Angeles. Great job. Travis, anything else you want people to know about before we let you go? What I'd like to see happening is our leadership actually

start doing things that are helping the truly homeless. It gets impossible to help the truly homeless person when you've got essentially a lot of people coming here for you know legalized drugs right so i get it avoid the ruling so that you can't criminalize homelessness but didn't just say that people can sleep wherever they want i think that you know the councilman and the the mayor need to start setting up some laws that restrict where people can sleep. Here's what we need. Laws that allow us, this is the thing you were talking about in Europe where they help sick people.

We don't help sick people in this country because it's against the law. So we need to modify the Lantern and Petra Short Act. We need to expand conservatorships. We need to change 47, as he's saying. And then we can actually go help these people because now not only can we not get near them or touch them, we can't even get near or touch their belongings.

So your idea about putting them out onto land elsewhere where they can thrive and do as they please, you can't do that now. You're not allowed even to discuss that with them. When they're so sick that they're a harm to self or other, you can put them in a hospital for a few minutes until they say, I don't want to kill myself anymore and I know where McDonald's is.

That's all they have to say to get out. That's it. You don't know that? I didn't know that. Oh, that's our laws. It's called the Lanterman-Petris Short Act. We went overnight in 1972 from the criteria that every other country in the world uses for the most part, which is need for care.

Right? Needs care. Sick needs care. We went from that to harm to self or other. And harm to self or other became more and more and more narrowly examined. There's also a vague term called gravely disabled you can't get to stick to anybody all again all they have to say is i have a tent and i know where mcdonald's is then you then you and i have a plan and i don't want to kill

myself i don't want to kill somebody else that's it they're out the moment they say that that's literally a get out of jail free card it's's, it's, they could be saying, I am, I am Jesus. I'm hearing voices, but I know where McDonald's is. I have a tent and yeah. And,

and I don't want to take my medication. Who are you to say? Who are you to say, Kay? How dare you? I am so glad that my copy of American psychosis hasn't shown up yet because I would be apoplectic on this show. I may give. I may give you my copy and then you can

send it back to me because that's what this, I recommend that book to everybody called American Psychosis that's very much about how we got here, which is a whole other story. Travis, thank you. Good luck with everything and let us know we can help, okay?

Thank you. Appreciate having me on. Thanks for calling in. Bye, Trav. You got it. How do you know Travis us know we can help okay thank you appreciate having me on thanks for calling bye trav you got it how do you know travis good from the venice community everyone on the west side everyone knows yeah it's just one of those things and i mean like you know it's travis he's just how can you not that's so funny okay here's an interesting call and i like irene's perspective on this and i think she is absolutely correct. Irene, how are you? Hello, Dr. Drew. Hi, Irene.

What's going on? You know, I wanted to talk to you about your thoughts on addressing the lack of continuity of care between inpatient and outpatient. And I was just listening to you right now and it just like hit the spot about you talking about the fact that if you say you're okay and, you know what I mean?

And then you're just out and then you're left to kind of stand for yourself for outpatient services. Yeah. Yeah. And, and... Sorry, I'm getting emotional. Is this, is this you or somebody, you or somebody you love was left out somebody i love and it's just it's frustrating that you know

it's because i can do that and i can provide the support but there's so many people out there that don't have that and it's just frustrating to see how that system is like that it's just yeah what what do you would you like to see what would help you help your loved one because i think i know what the fix is but what would what do you think you know i mentally like i see how like if like i've had physical, right, like a surgery or whatever, and I see the support from home, from the doctors to home. But yet when it's a mental illness, like, you don't see that. You don't see that continually in the care.

Oh, it's there, but we have privileged psychiatric symptoms in the law. We've said if you say, i don't really have a problem i don't want that ongoing care it's okay well if you had a knee replacement and it was time to go home and you said i don't really want that care we would not allow that we would get you the care we would get you the care to help with this And because we've privileged psychiatric symptoms based on 50-year-old laws and 50-year-old movies, like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, that we can't help the people who have something called anosognosia. Anosognosia is a condition that stroke patients get, schizophrenics get, drug addicts get, bipolar patients get, which is a parietal region of the

brain that gives us the insight into what's happening to us. When that system in our brain doesn't operate, we lose insight. We start thinking we don't have a problem. We don't see what's happening as a result. It's a part of the condition. And we have privileged that if it happens, not from dementia, not from a stroke, because if it happens from dementia or a stroke, we jump right in. But if it happens from psychiatric illness, well, he's at his liberty now. He or she's at their liberty to do as they please. Isn't that insane? No other country does that.

Yeah. No other country does that. So that's really the problem, Irene. If we dealt more realistically with that issue, I know it's hard, and gave you, say, some temporary conservatorship or something until those symptoms settled down. Something. There are many, many different ways to do this. Thank you for your call, Irene. I've got to go to another caller here. This is Carol. Hi, Carol. Hi, Carol. Hi, Dr. Drew. Hi, Kay. Carol. Hello. Carol's Twitter account is at LAVagrants. We've seen all your images there on Twitter.

I follow you. So where do you come in on all this, and what do we do about it? Well, your words when you just said L.A. is fueling death really, really struck me. And, you know, I know we're talking more so about those sick on the street, but, you know, also the victims. And just over the last couple of weeks, I mean, hearing some of the stories we heard about, you know, the taxi, elderly taxi cab driver who was stabbed to death by a vagrant for no reason. You know, the ruling on the West Hollywood, I mean, some guys saw a vagrant stealing stuff from a 7-Eleven. He offered to buy him the stuff, which was so kind. And the vagrant somehow got angry, waited outside for him and tried to ax him to death.

You know, I'm at a point where I don't mean to be the debbie downer of today but la is fueling death on both ends and it's a humanitarian crisis it's two prongs it is the 59 000 people dying on the streets in la county and it's also a citizen who you know k was a victim i was a victim i mean quite frankly you talk to your friends everyone has a story some are very worse than others not only carol, everyone has a story. Some are very worse than others. Not only Carol does everyone have a story. You know what's interesting? We all pretty much have a story.

Not only do you have a story, we hear this rhetoric about the crime stats being down. Everybody I know has a crime story, too, where they didn't call police because why bother? Yeah. Everybody I know that. So the crime stats are completely distorted by that fact. Well, it's like there's macro propaganda like i i really didn't realize the magnitude of the issue until people like harold started posting about this on twitter i mean you talk about vigilantes like this is media vigilantism

actually getting this information out there like calling it a humanitarian crisis public safety crisis reshaping public understanding of this issue. Yeah, rather than saying it's income disparity at house, which has nothing to do with this. Don't even get me started. Yeah, it has nothing to do with that. I'm not saying those things don't exist. They do exist.

Yeah. But that has nothing to do with this problem. Yeah, it is not the origin of this crisis. And yeah, talking about it from a real life perspective of what goes on day to day on our streets is the only way that this issue is going to shift. carol's thing right carol yeah for sure and you know it's amazing how i have so many people come to me because you know the at la vagrant twitter thread it's all like-minded people they're concerned they're victims i even have former meth heads

you know who send advice and and they've they've gotten out of that and they're victims. I even have former meth heads, you know, who send advice and they've gotten out of that and they're back living healthy lives. And, you know, I have one follower who I've befriended who, she's wonderful and her brother's living in a tent, you know, under a freeway in LA and she's just crestfallen. So it's brought together this really interesting group of L.A. County citizens who were all fed up. And I have to say, I have a new motto, and perhaps it's coming from the fact that I'm a victim myself. But my new motto, because I'm seeing this progressively get worse. And, Dr. Drew, the last time I spoke to you and Leanne was in July. It's gotten so much worse, especially down here in the South Bay.

And my new motto is every walk by a vagrant is a chance. It is. It's a 50% chance that person is kind and they're keeping to themselves and just doing their thing, whatever that is. There's a 50% chance they will be aggressive. They'll threaten you, you know, either verbally hurt you or as we've seen, you know, the last couple of months kill you, they will kill you or they will throw a bucket of their hot diarrhea over your head like happened to the woman in hollywood and i just yeah i i just keep you know i walk by these folks and i just say god keep me safe keep me and my child safe right now and i i've gotten to a point where how do i live here i mean how do i be a responsible parent and actually say that's okay that's an okay lifestyle that every day we're

going to walk by and have to say please keep us safe as we just walk down it's impossible how do you think i feel as a clinician because i know how to treat this and it's not complicated so every time they say it's a complicated problem i want them to shut the fuck up because it's not complicated if you have the proper laws to deal with it yeah yeah it's a common sense issue right and and you know and, you know, for sure. And Dr. Drew, you brought up something before I,

it was like two phone calls ago about, um, you know, it was about prop 47, what someone has to do to get arrested nowadays. And we had that issue in Hermosa beach just this week of, you know, uh,

vagrant set up an encampment along our green belt, which is a walkway. It's kind of a city park and it spans Manhattan Beach, Hermosa and Redondo. And the kids all walk this green belt pathway to get to school. And I'm talking elementary school children, eight and 10 year olds with their backpacks. So this guy set up outside and Hermosa Beach PD was flooded with calls. And they said they said listen there's nothing we can do he's allowed to live there um his garbage is all over he's smoking cigarettes which by the way is that alone is against the law and um hermosa to do that publicly he's throwing cigarettes

slow down for taxpayers it's for taxpayers it's illegal relax relax yes exactly so well well so bottom line um it dawned on me that you know the whole town was a flutter about this and we know because we're such a small town that the kids get out of school around 2 30 and i say you know i i have some time i'm going to go and sit there and in my car and just make sure these kids are safe. And I did that. And as I'm sitting there, I see him start swinging a cane into the air. Then I see the girls high school track team start running right by him while he's acting erratic and agitated. So I called the Hermosa police. He also pulled down his pants at one point. He didn't do anything crazy, but he did pull them down. And so I called the Hermosa police. I said, enough said enough is enough i said the children are getting out of school they are walking by him why am i the only one sitting here making sure they're safe and they said we don't have the resources and we can't do anything and i said well a police officer

should at least be here but if they were there they would just be standing they wouldn't be able to do anything they are prevented from doing their job. I know, but just... Well, it gets better. Don't worry. But for the hour that those kids are getting out of school, there should have been someone there. I don't know. I don't disagree with you.

Maybe it was an official from the school. Yeah, the fact that I don't even have a kid in school and I'm sitting there making sure other people's kids are safe. So as I'm sitting there, so I called the Hermosa police. I kind of lost my safe. So as I'm sitting there, you know, so I called the Hermosa police. I kind of lost my mind. So when I saw him pull down his pants, I got really upset as the kids are walking by. And then sure enough, one officer showed up and a second and a third.

And it took about five minutes before he was shouting into the air that he's going to kill somebody dead. And to your point, that is when he was finally taken down and taken in. But I promise you, if you got to the hospital, if he got to the hospital, Carol, I've got to run. Thank you so much for joining us, though. I really appreciate it. We appreciate the call. But I will guarantee you that if he got to the hospital and said, I was just kidding, does not put on the hold, taken off the hold immediately. This is the deal.

What is the thinking behind this? Is it supposed to be some kind of like, I was about to say some kind of, yeah, liberty. I just. Who are you to say? You just have, I just have 30 years of experience and I know what can help this guy not die

and get better and even return to a productive life potentially. Who am I? Who am I to say? Yeah, no, he knows better. Hey, special guest coming on the line.

The one, the only Jillian Barbary. Jillian? Uh-oh. Oh, no. I pushed the wrong button. Hold on. Hold on.

Hang on, Jillian. I pushed the wrong button. This is when I was supposed to be on the phone. There you are. I pushed the wrong button. How are you? You're always pushing my buttons. I'm great, Dr. Drew.

How are you guys? Hi, Kay. Hi. Were you on their show with Jillian and John? Not yet. I'm great, Dr. Drew. How are you guys? Hi, Kay. Hi. Were you on their show with Jillian and John? Not yet. I'm going to say yet. Well, yet, but Jillian and I are saying farewell to KBC. When's your last day?

Thursday's mine. What about you? Monday or Tuesday. The Masked Singer was maybe wanting me to do something on Tuesday, and our program director very kindly let me do that if possible. Then you have the White House. Then I'm going to the White the White House yeah and I'm going to call back in I'm giving a talk yeah I'm giving a talk at the White House on this issue and not exactly this issue but the history of this issue and here's the deal I am one clinician when I arrived at Las Encinas

Hospital in 1985 there was a it was like a museum of psychiatry i was doing just medical services then and a lot of the patients there were left over from psychiatry for the last 30 years and it was not pretty what psychiatrists had done the excesses of the previous 30 years were uncanny frankly then i stayed there for 30 years and now I've been out for about 10. So I had a ringside seat to the entire mess of the American mental health care system. So I'm going to talk about that. And it goes, it really goes hand in hand with, and I should ask you this, it's more of a question, with job loss and drug abuse and uh you know people being put out on the streets i don't understand why we don't have here in america when i was growing up in canada they had facilities they had um you know hospitals essentially for they would call them the

insane or people that were mentally challenged and they were housed and we don't have any more. He destroyed that system systematically. That's what my talk is going to be about. How we destroyed that. Why we destroyed that. Kay's going to read about that in a book called American psychosis. That's what that book is about. And,

uh, and we've been talking about it here for the last hour or so too, getting lots of opinions about it, but Jillian, tell me more. What, so you're, you're going to end your show on this week and where can we find you yes yes you do one where can we find you

okay so i'm going to be i'm doing a podcast of course and um we are we just shot or taped our first one and it'll be exactly you know life stuff from marriage to divorce and adoption and addiction and sex and menopause and cancer it's just going to be life stuff and so um i have a lot of you know just like you do revolving guests and co-hosts and it's just going to be i need to be a guest on your show yes oh my gosh are you kidding absolutely you have to be um are you so the whole change and transition to kbc happened essentially you know i know they've done a few articles and i said you know this is sort of the way and you and i have been talking behind the scenes a little bit like stuff happens like this all the time where they decide to syndicate it's

cheaper for them and it is what it is you know it was a great run and and i love everybody there but um yeah they completely changed the format they did keep my co-host so that john will be doing i think new to three now yeah i've been through so many radio things like this i we used to be adam yeah adam and i used to be syndicated on a very famous alternative station in washington dc called whfs and they would they would have a concert every year where they filled rfk stadium it was hugely popular one of our big affiliates and a lot of people from k-rock actually went over to hfs and was doing some administrative work there and so i know exactly what happened because they told the story later,

which was ratings were struggling, but it wasn't doing terribly. One day the administration walks in and we have a mandatory meeting at 11 o'clock. And they walked in the room at 11 and said, at 2 o'clock, we are from then on Ranchero Music. That's it. Oh, my God. Everyone here is fired.

Oh, my God. We're going with Ranchero Music. And that's radio oh my god everyone here is fired oh my god we're going with rent share on music and and that's radio wow you flip formats you flip ideas and you know that's how radio works that's how it goes wow there's some just like insane decision making in this country like i'm just sat here like what why it's a dynamism we prefer to defend yeah how dare you she was like i love this country. I feel so honored to live here. Like moving from, you know, somewhere with a queen on the money as well. But like, oh my goodness.

It's, I've never seen. It's interesting, right? Oh God. Yeah, it's interesting. We, you know, it's. And I'm from a place where we have queens on our money too, because I'm from Canada. So we're into the Commonwealth and the queen is all over our money. Yeah, we had the same hospitals. It is quite a the Commonwealth and the Queen is all over our money. Yeah.

We had the same hospital. It is quite a difference, isn't it? Oh, it's yeah. I mean, we speak the same language, but we don't speak the same language kind of thing.

And that's not to say that I think that Britain is better. It is not. Brexit defines it as being a bad place. But yeah, it's a next level. Next level. Wow. Well,

Jillian, I thank you for saying hi. It's been a great working with you over there all this time next level. Next level. Wow. Well, Jillian, I thank you for saying hi. Next level. It's been great working with you over there all this time. Oh, yeah. Next time. Love you so much, Dr. Drew. And I'll do your show, and we'll see each other no doubt soon.

Call Susan. We'll get set up. Okay? Absolutely. We definitely need a dinner. I love you dearly. Yes, dinner. And you and your 50,000 shows that you've got going on, you don't have to call me in

between. We'll have dinner. All right, we'll do. It's so true. It's crazy, but it's fabulous. I know why. All right, Dr. Drew, thanks. Great talking to you, Kay.

Bye, Joe. Bye, guys. Nice to meet you. All right, we're going to take another little break. Of course, I've got Kay Smythe here. The call-in number is, put it up there, 984-237-3739. One day I'll learn it by heart. 9842-DRDrew, of course, also. So I got lots of great calls lining up here. I'm going to try to get to some of them, maybe some more general sort of Loveline-esque type calls I will try to answer now as well.

We will talk to you after the break. The CBD industry is still pretty much the Wild West. When it comes to claims and criticisms, the science is catching up with the industry. We will have clinical science soon enough. And there seems to be an overwhelmingly positive response these days to CBD's efficacy. We've all heard the reports. And luckily, our good friends at Social CBD are raising the industry testing standards. They like to say they are test obsessed. Social CBD works closely with their suppliers and multiple third-party labs to ensure you are getting exactly the package that they say you are getting.

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That is my website, drdrew.com slash s-o-c-i-a-l-c-b-d. For a limited time, you can save 20% at checkout with the code drdrew. Now let's get back to the show. Needles have increasingly become a part of everyday life. Proper disposal is both difficult and expensive. We have the solution. Simpler, safer, affordable, and fulfills the obligation to protect our environment. A single stick with something like this means tracking down the user. It means blood tests for the person's stock. It means possibly medication for an extended period of time.

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you've ever received on your show from a caller. I'm not sure you want me to really get into this, but a guy that called and said, you guys are willing to listen to everything. And I want to know why people freak out when they hear about my monogamous, loving relationship. Turns out it was his dog, Brutus, in a Kili Kali mix. And he was having relations with him. Yeah, let's talk about something else. I think so. Welcome back, everybody.

Great Tom Green is going to be on Dr. Drew After Dark coming up. They'll be a few weeks down the road. I think I'm talking to him tomorrow. And we're taking your calls, as I said. We've got a few more visitors from the old KBC show that is going to end this week, and just people that have been part of that show since the beginning. Let's get some calls here. This is Dale.

Hey, Dale. Hi, Dr. Groove. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Good, thanks. Good. I wanted to uh i used to live oh you broke the love line when i when i first got clean and i wanted to

thank you for saying something that was really a piece of my puzzle can you hear me okay i hear you now a piece of your puzzle which was what i. Okay, you said, I've heard a lot of people say, I'm really glad I didn't use last night. You've never heard anyone say, I'm glad I did use last night. So it resonated with me that night, and it resonates with me to this moment. And thank you, buddy. My privilege.

To me, I love stories like that because it's... Thank you, buddy. My privilege. To me, I love stories like that because it's... Thank you, Dale. I love stories like that because it is so indicative of the magic of recovery. Recovery is really, from addiction, happens because of other human beings. Yeah. I mean, people talk about spiritual moments coming in, but I really believe that it's all initiated interpersonally. And we all carry different pieces, as you said, of the puzzle. Our personality connects with them in

certain ways. It's why we build teams when we treat addiction, because you never know who's going to be the one that gives them that little piece that they need to find the motivation and so the spiritual material can get in. Well, this is why it's so great that you're doing millions of different shows. So there are millions of different opportunities well just like to perpetuate this work i mean you've been doing this for so long now and that i mean does that happen on a regular basis people contact you to say thank you yes but but i i look at it that is marvelous but i look at it as not me it's them i'm just sort of available. Although I must say that in recent, probably years, but maybe certainly months, I'm realizing that there's not a lot of physicians with the

kind of experience I've had in medicine and psychiatry. And so I'm wanting to just give it out a lot. That's why I'm doing more speaking and being willing to go to the White House or wherever people listen to me, because I have a perspective that I don't think my younger peers are kind of getting. I've just noticed that. We talked earlier about the California Attorney General that wants to talk about trauma-informed care. She's right. It's absolutely true. But the whole story is a bit more complicated.

If you really had the experience experience you'd have to plan a little more than just that one little aphorism trauma-informed care surgeon general what did i say oh attorney general surgeon general was saying that yeah well i was gonna say i mean do you think that particularly for my generation this kind of emerging generation now of doctors of psychiatrists psychologists how does that kind of woke lifestyleness whatever it is inform practice because all i see it as being like this absolute shit storm caused by like this it is a shit storm i mean i i don't get me wrong i agree with the principle of wokeness i think that you know making oneself aware of uh social issues is like the first step in solving them yes but the way that we've been educated in this country and in europe and in most developed countries under this kind of like

constructivist idea that we are self like we self-teach that uh it's funny knowledge constructivist we call it post-structuralist post-modernist yeah it's kind of like it's i guess it's like all stemmed from what constructivism learning theory this kind of idea that we uh we decide what's factual to us based on our experience yes that's even though that's what defines a freaking opinion right so that's of grave concern to me okay and that's sort of why I want to give, but there's always been, I don't want to become that guy. You know what I mean? Who's like these kids, I, I, there's always a different in the generational experiences and training.

I remember when I was a young physician, the, the guys,, mostly men that were ahead of me, were very concerned about us for different reasons. What were those reasons for your generation? They were more paternalistic and we were very concerned about paternalism and they wanted patient participation. It wasn't a bad thing. What we did was a good thing. And they were interested in control and things that we were giving up readily. And it ended up being mostly a good thing. Not entirely. A lot of the stuff we're talking about today is because we went too far with all that, right?

So it's always a pendulum swing. My concern, my biggest concern about exactly what you're raising, and I don't know if I should be concerned or not, is that the actual training is being forsaken for these priorities. You know what I'm saying? I do. And so these priorities become the training, and the depths of what needs to be carried out to really create experts

is sort of being obviated or obfuscated a little bit by these other priorities. Now, that may be totally unfounded, but I think I'm seeing a little bit of that. I mean, the reason that I'm an expert in this field is because I ghost wrote other people's doctoral dissertations on this subject matter. So when, you know, it's me and I don't even know how many other people are ghostwriters. I mean, it's a pretty... So you've seen the thinking, you've seen the opinions that are out there.

Well, it's more the kind, again, it kind of goes into this practice of, you know, oh my God, these doctors who are administering this care should probably be knowledgeable enough to write their own dissertations. Right. So that's like the first concern. And then the second concern is obviously, you know,

I spend all day every day looking at this data and then I have yet to see any of it in practice in five years of doing this work which means that the stuff i was writing when i started is now technically irrelevant yeah cannot be applied so we're having to redo the data all over again and yeah i mean you're making me more anxious than i was already i was gonna say maybe uh maybe one of the things that you should consider is going into teaching start your own course in this well i used to i taught a lot he's teach a lot but now i'm doing speaking that's sort of what my latest thing is but uh i it's so funny when you said you're writing other people's dissertation that's legal is that okay oh yeah it's legal i know i know but your point is well taken that they

should be doing the writing yeah isn't that part of the skill set well and it's legal. I know, I know, but your point is well taken, that they should be doing the writing. Yeah. Isn't that part of the skill set? Well, it's just so much easier to avoid having the responsibility of doing the work and forming. Maybe you could just write everything for me, too. Let me bring in my friend, the great Laurence Yvonne, my guest for over a year on Dr. Drew, on the KBC radio program, Midday Live. Laurence Yvonne, you're in New York now?

Hi. No, I'm here in LA. Okay. It says from New York on my call screen or thing. I'm like, what? Once again, we're going to have to meet up. Oh, because my number. I have a New York number.

Oh, so. Well, so we're saying farewell. We're all saying farewell to KBC. So Mike's calling in. Jillian called in. Now we got you. And I appreciate you calling in. Yeah.

I mean, I was a year ahead of you in leaving. Yes, you were. But the greatest part about KABC was that I got to work with you. I mean, that was the treat in all of it you know what lauren do you mind if people don't know your relation to the whole me too thing would you mind you mind i know you have to do it all the time but you mind sketching it a little bit because to me by the way i felt like i was sitting next to the person who said me too and it was a privilege and really interesting watching you well no no but listen but listen, I know the consequences you've had.

I know it's been a really interesting challenge dealing with all that. Do you mind sketching that a little bit? Yeah, that's true. That's true. Well, I mean, as you know, I spoke out because I had an encounter with Harvey Weinstein like 11 years ago, and it was a completely chance encounter. I just happened to be at a restaurant at a dinner party that he was at, and that's how we met, and we chit-chatted for a bit.

And he tried to give me a tour of this place, and there was no reason to suspect there was anything untoward. He was delightful and charming and sweet. And when we got down to the kitchen, I realized that we were in an abandoned kitchen and that this was something else. And so he tried to kiss me. And that's when I was like, oh, I'm so sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. I just thought we were having a nice conversation. And then he cornered me,

and he basically just masturbated in front of me, which was horrible. But now that I've gotten to know so many of his victims, I really consider myself one of the lucky ones because I didn't need anything from him. I wasn't trying to get hired by him. I wasn't trying to make it in Hollywood. I wasn't an actress. It was just a really disturbing thing that happened to me on a random night out in New York City. And it wasn't something, for me personally, it wasn't something that traumatized me. I mean,

it was kind of like this story. Every time his name came up, I'd be like, oh, I got to greet Harvey Weinstein. Sorry, Breeze. But when Braver Women and I came forward and told their truth about Harvey Weinstein, like, you know, Rose McGowan and Ashley Dutt, I came forward because he called them liars and he said that you know he never did anything wrong and these women were just you know lying and upset about their careers which i knew was a lie only because of my you know one hour encounter with him so yes i was one of the women that said me too pretty early on after uh after that story was published i feel like you were the first and and and then you did the thing that thatbs me almost more than anything else about these encounters, not just with him, but what women do when they're the object of victimization, they blame themselves.

How, how, what did I do? They take a big old inventory about what I did to get myself in that position. And that, and you did that. And I've spoken to so many of the other victims, by the

way, there's like 90 women that came forward. So there's a lot of us. Um, and, and we all did the same thing. We all said, you know, how could I be so stupid? How did I fall into this trap? What kind of signs was I giving off to him that he got the wrong impression? Whereas, you know, a lot of times we do that because we don't know how many others of us there are. You know, you kind of think it's this solitary thing that happens to you. But had you known that, no, you were absolutely lured into the place, you know, that he wanted you, I think all of us would have had a better idea and probably would have blamed ourselves a lot less. Maybe, maybe less.

But women, I just think for some reason that's your that's the move it's just an inventory um i've seen it over and over again lots of other biologically yeah biologically i think you said you know we we're kind of biologically circuited to be agreeable and to not drop the boat and not make people feel uncomfortable that's exactly true anytime that we you that we feel conflict or we feel tension, we kind of want to relieve that tension. And so if we can put it on ourselves, we do. And part of it is that.

And the other part is that society conditions us to be that way. What were you wearing when you got raped? And what did you say to him? I mean, there's a part of that going, too. Yes, and I would argue that one of my criticisms of fourth-wave feminism you got raped and what did you say to him i mean there's a part of of that blame too yes and i would argue that one of my criticisms of fourth wave feminism is an unwillingness to look at some of these tendencies that may be whatever they're just tendencies like you're describing the the agreeableness and then saying oh that exists let's help women fight against that yeah let's move them

away from that agreeableness in particular situations where they need to come to their own aid and not fall into this, oh, what did I do? Because what did I do? When women do that, it just, really, I find it emotionally, it hurts me. It's sad to see women do that. It's unnecessary. Trust me. Well, it hurts women too

because they carry that around as guilt. And they carry it around as like, I got myself into that situation. That was somehow my fault. I brought it on myself. And so I want to keep it a secret because there's a component of shame

that accompanies that as well. Oh, very much so. I hope I'm talking to people that are over that. You're not doing that? Oh, no. I mean, like, well, I just want to say firstly, like, I'm so sorry that you went through all of this lauren and also i don't think women will ever be able to thank you enough for standing up and talking about it because again that's the first step in kind of breaking these

perpetuated habits we're talking about it now yeah and i mean i i mean me personally like i've dealt with the same thing um i like got into a very dark depression as a result of issues to do with this and uh and i still feel like one of the lucky ones because it's it never went so far as to yeah like as it wasn't shattering as it could be yeah and um my mom raised me very much to be uh terrified of everything and mistrust everyone and be very, very tough. Oh, Lauren, that's you too. Yeah. I've met Jackie.

That's exactly how she is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I remember even telling my mom when I was very young and I got my first job and I was at Fox News Channel and I had a problem with the producer that worked above me. He was really, just overly friendly, really, really inappropriate. And I was really young, I was probably 22. And I told my mom that he said these wildly inappropriate things. And her advice was like, keep your mouth shut. You know, see if you can get moved on a different shift. But don't rock a boat, don't be the girl that complains

because it won't serve you. And unfortunately, she was right. I mean, that was the reality. It would not serve a woman to come forward because once you came forward and reported someone, guess what? You were the problem that had to be dealt with. I hope we're changing. I hope it's changing. And I hope, I pray that things have changed now. Yeah.

You're downtown right now working with the homeless? Yes. Yes. We've been handing out survival kits with the homeless yes yes we we've been handing out um like survival kits to the homeless today these big duffel bags full of plenty of toiletries some clothes some food some first aid equipment you know things that you just that you need if you're living on the street and you don't have anywhere to go but But the reason I love the group that I was working with, which is they're called the giving spirit is because the biggest gift that we're giving them is something you and I talked about for a year, which is the warm handoff. So

when we hand out these things, it's kind of just an excuse to really start a conversation with the people on the street, figure out how long they've been there, why they're there, what can we do to help you? What services can we contact you, you know, get you in contact with. But it's a great way to actually approach these people because they're giving them something that they appreciate. That's great. You know, a lot of times they are willing to talk to you. And a lot of times, honestly, they just want to talk.

They just want to have some kind of human interaction and feel human yeah i've started in in new york particularly where there's a lot more sort of intimate contact like on the trains and stuff i've started just talking talking yeah and yeah like and trying to motivate them in a better direction because most of them will cop to what's going on and uh somebody going hey you're better than that you can do better than that here What about this service, that service? Here's a phone number. And they kind of respond. So many things right now in this world have interpersonal solutions. Oh, yeah.

And I think we, in particular this country, do not emphasize that. But Lauren, it was a privilege to work with you. And I'll miss you on the air. It was a privilege to work with you, too. Well, I know that you're going to be on air everywhere. I mean, that was just one of your myriad of jobs. This has become a theme today. I know that I can find you if I need to hear my doctor.

You can find me if you need me. Next year in Jerusalem. All right. Next year in Jerusalem. And Kate, let me meet you too thank you so much you too talk soon talk soon

okay we're going to get to some of our callers now we've got a little bit of time left I've got lots of great calls lined up anything that I've left off of your plate through all this we've meandered through a lot of different interesting stuff today. I mean, we could talk for the next like six hours, to be honest with you. Like, this is great.

Yeah, this is fantastic. If you have anything else on your mind, bring it up. Okay, this is an interesting call that Tracy's got here for us. Tracy, what do you got? Hi. Hi, Tracy. Oh, hi. Hi, I'm a dog groomer,

and I work in a salon with a girl who is homeless or basically living in her truck. I think she, I know she's mentally ill. I think she may be an addict, but I'm not sure 100%. The boss lady hired her to kind of help her get on her feet, you know, and maybe help her get off the street. But she gets aggressive around payday and, you know, and will come in on her days off and beg for money. Well, that's drug addiction. That's drug addiction.

So on payday, it means that she's coming off the drugs. Sounds more kind of opiate-ish. So coming off the drugs and the rest of the week she's trying to get her drug supply. So you can't put the cart ahead of the course. You can't assume that giving somebody a place to live or a job is going to magically cure their mental illness. Yeah. It does not work like that.

Right, right. Start talking to her very directly. Just start going, look, I've noticed that you seem uncomfortable. Are you on something? Are you coming off it? Have you gone to NA meetings? Have you thought about going to 12-step meetings? Let's just kind of show up and here are some resources I've heard about.

You can look online and find them. There's tons of resources. And get her some help. This is going to blow up, unfortunately. It's not going to go well. She's going to end up stealing from the work. I mean, yeah, definitely. It's just like kind of a natural progression.

I mean, opiates, though, I mean, from my understanding, the hardest to get off, the most prolific, a lot of people who start on opiates eventually end up in heroin, and then it goes on to fentanyl. Yes, yes, that's what we got. It's a progressive illness, and someone to help me talk about that, my other co-host from Midday Live,

Mike Catherwood, the great Mike Catherwood. Hi. Hey, man. Hey, baby. Hey, buddy. So we were talking about opiate addiction, and how hard it is to deal with that. Can you hear me?

Yeah. Really? Can you hear me? I hear you. It sounds like you're at a... Where are you? I'm at Outdoor Ice Skating in Santa Monica. Oh.

Just down the road from me. So, yeah, we were talking about opiates and... I had to call. I had to break away from my daughter, the future Nancy Kerrigan, in order to make a call to your very special show. Thank you. We appreciate it. I hope Rudy's with you.

I hope Rudy's with you, too. I might want to talk to him a little bit. What's that? I hope Rudy's with you, too. I might want to talk to him a little bit. I mean, he is, but I'm in a really tough environment to be breaking out some Rudy. I got him all zipped up right now because there's a lot of kids around. But he knows how to mind his P's and Q's, doesn't he?

He can behave himself. He's not that out of control. I'll say. I'm sure he can. I'll warn him that he has to be well behaved. All right. All right. Hey, Rudy.

Rudy? Yeah. Oh, you want to talk to him right now? I want to talk to him for a second. I'll get you a good time. Rudy, what's up, man? Hey, what's up, dog? I hear you're retiring or some shit like that.

Yeah, watch your language. You're around a bunch of kids, all right? Okay. Whatever, dog. You know, half of them are mine, so shut up. So, Rudy, yeah, we're going to end KBC. Mike left, and things are up in the same sense. Yeah, I understand.

Like, you know, he likes to pretend like he's not important, but, like, he holds things together. So a lot of times when he leaves, things fall apart. That's what happened. He sold me a car one time and it blew up. Yeah, that happened. He did the same thing with Loveline, did it with KBC. Everything he touches, he makes magic and then he leaves and it's all over.

I feel like he's got a long record of leaving you high and dry. He left two radio shows to let you flail around in the wind or whatever. I know. We usually have a talk with that boy. But how are you? How are your kids? How's Sad Girl? You know, she's good, Doc.

She's recovering from the whole leg incident, the amputation. You know, like, she didn't get a good, like, doctor, surgeon to do it. So, you know, like, it was, we took her down to Mexico to get that amputation. Right. So, there's, like, you know, they did it with, like, zippers and screwdrivers and stuff, you know. How about her prosthetic leg? What's she working with now? Right now,

it's leather. You know what I'm saying, Doc? We got it from my uncle's ranch in La Reza. It's the Panocha Grande. It's pretty tight. It's got spurs on it. That's cool. Some silver down the side of it.

Some Raiders stuff. Well, that's all the silver, right? Made like Raiders helmets? Yeah, but it's like a pedazzo, dog. You know, like Raider helmet, like a pedazzo. So, Reed, are you going to be going to Las Vegas? They're going to have a fast train to Las Vegas. I thought of you when I heard of that.

Are you going to be going to see some Raiders games in Vegas? Yeah, but I ain't taking no train, fool. You know, my friend's got like a chevy like a minivan you know and like i like to take my time and blaze right you know maybe drop a little acid for okay because by the time i get to pocoyma i'm not you know like uh by the time i'm like by coachella i'm out yeah yeah i get that so back to sagro so his wife sagro um had a meth problem well she didn't have a meth problem she had a weight problem and it made rudy feel bad so we started putting meth in her horchata

and she should help us she's right like all her food too all her food the meth and then what happened then like you know she lost 135 pounds you know so i felt like i was you know mission accomplished you know what i'm saying, doc? Dude, Munchausen by proxy will do that. She started to go a little crazy. What was that? She's saying Munchausen by proxy. Don't worry, Rudy.

That's a lot of words, doc. That's a lot of syllables. That's a little bit out of my pay scale, doc. You know what I'm saying? I know what you're saying, man. And so tell me, tell Kay what happened when she got too much meth in the huevos. Well,

she started, like, you know, like, freaking out. And she stabbed my aunt, you know, for no reason. She said she was a devil, but it was just my idea, you know. She stabbed her, and then, like, next thing you know, she kept saying there was bugs in her legs. I'm like, there's no bugs in your legs, why not? And, but she just, she wouldn't believe me. She kept thinking there was saying there was a bug in her leg i'm like there's no bugs in your legs i know and but she just she wouldn't believe me she kept thinking there was

a bug there so she chopped her leg off and you know i mean i try to look at the bright side of things you know like yeah she chopped her leg off but that's another 40 pounds right there so rudy uh lining so rudy good to talk to you, man. Go back to the ice skating. Let me get Mike back, okay? All right, folks. All right, man. Keep your head up, dog.

All right, buddy. Thanks. Hello? Yeah, Mike. Hello? So, Rudy. Rudy was in. He was good.

Okay, cool, cool, cool. I'm glad he was well-behaved. Yeah, he was. Well, not well-behaved, but he was regular routine form just he didn't go crazy on us so so uh you're ice skating with your daughter there in santa monica what else she into you guys got another kid uh i'd like to but it's just it's tough it's really tough i don't know i mean like there's so many factors that, you know, make it really difficult to decide one day to have a kid because, you know, my wife,

you know, my wife's an actress and she doesn't have a stable gig right now. And she's lucky enough to work a lot, but she doesn't have a contract job. So we don't know when she can be back. Right. Right. And that, you know, that takes a lot of planning and she's, you know, we're getting through an age where that might never happen again. But we're seriously exploring adoption. Oh, wow. You know, and that's, I mean, that's a really, really reasonable, viable option. Interesting. So Bianca Kylick, I don't know, Caleb, if you can get Bianca's picture up, is Mike's wife. And Mike, so tell people where they can find you. What are you doing now? Tell us about Jason.

What's going on? I'm doing the High and Dry podcast with my man Jason Ellis and his beautiful wife Katie. It's really starting to shape up to be something special. Honestly, I knew getting together with Jason, we'd make an entertaining show.

I never had one doubt in my mind that that would be the case. But jason now really embracing his bisexuality and being a lot more open about his trauma um this shows becomes something of a of a real safe place for so many people out there and it's really heartwarming to see a lot of the dms and the tweets and the emails that i get but man the stuff jason gets it's really heartwarming to see a lot of the dms and the tweets and the emails that i get but man the stuff jason gets it's really heartwarming to see like i'm i'm a tough guy i'm into moto i'm into mma and i live in oklahoma city and i'm just so scared because i'm gay and i can't come out and i never had

anybody to look up to and you're like such an inspiration to me jason and you know stuff like that like like i said it's accidentally shaped up to be something really kind of important and special. Hang on, Susan, isn't Jason on the next podcast? Yeah, so Jason's coming up here in a couple of weeks, like January 5th. Why don't you either call in

or show up for that, yeah? I set it up for him. Oh, you set it up. Okay, forget it. Absolutely. But at least call in. I love you. All right.

But listen, man, how do they find that show? It's called High and Dry, spelled normally, and it's available everywhere. Podcasts are available. And also, I'm at Mike Catherwood on every outlet there is. But also, at Koolo Breaker, if you want to follow your boy Rudy, because he's tweeting and Instagramming a lot of high-quality stuff.

At Koolo Breaker, Kenny. At Koolo Breaker. All right, man. Talk to you soon. All right, buddy. Thanks for calling. All rightulo Breaker, Kenny. At Kulo Breaker. All right, man. Talk to you soon. All right, buddy. Thanks for calling. All right. Love you.

Bye. All right. Bye. Bye, Mike. So, yeah. Rudy is one of my favorites. I was about to say, I need to spend like weekends

with him just being in his presence. Weekends with Rudy? Just hide under the table and watch. Rudy is a rich tapestry of Los Angeles culture. All right. Let's get some more calls here. We've got a few more minutes left. That was such a nice spin.

What's that, producer? You can do your calls now. It'll be a really good time. That's what I'm doing. As long as you'd like. Okay. Here we go. All right. This is just a medical question.

It's an easy one. Ryan, go ahead. Hey, Dr. Drew, you live, man. You live. Thanks for hearing me. What do you know about chemo brain? I know it's very common. I've seen it a lot.

I've seen it with multiple different kinds of chemo. It's usually the chemos for a solid tumor like colon or lung that I typically see this breast. And it's very disturbing to people and it usually gets a lot better. So how do you help i and i'm talking about my 78 year old mother who's been dealing with cancer for 20 years now but how do i help her progress and live while dealing with what seems to be an alternate reality when my brother and i try and help her with her daily all right uh just her daily things you know what i mean yes yes i know so so here are some simple guidelines make sure she has seen a neurologist so we're clear that that's what

it is it is related to chemo and not the chemo plus something else that may or may not have treatment, number one. Number two is in-home supportive services. There's lots of stuff available. Geriatric networks, most hospitals have connection with where she can get access to resources and caretakers and services that you may not be aware of. So take advantage of that. It's very hard to do it on your own. It needs often a lot of people helping.

Number three. Well, thankfully she lived in an area that has a great network of care, and we're doing our best, but it seems that any time we try to offer help, it's faced with great resistance, and I just don't know how to help her better. The one thing, this is going to sound, not being there, not knowing her, not knowing you, this is going to sound a little bit crass, but let me just sort of say it.

Don't spend a lot of time talking. Just get in there and help. So just be there, be helpful, put help in place. Don't get into conversations about it. Just do what is appropriate to keep her safe, period. End of story. Make sense? So, are there psychiatric treatments that you recognize? No, it's...

I mean, we started olanzapine just a couple days ago. Is that good? Yeah, I mean, olanzapine, it's not bad, but it is not totally safe. There are studies that show use of olanzapine, while it might improve some of the symptoms, it can have some dangerous

associations that people are worried about. So there are geriatric specialized psychiatrists, and it's sort of that what you should take advantage of there. But, you know,

it's... This is really hard to do well. It's really hard when people are in sort of this intermediate state, when they're not fully incapacitated, they have some other faculties that might be improving. It's the most frustrating part of all. And they want their independence and their autonomy. And what you have to do is just rely on the people that create in-home supportive services and just put them in place. Get proper evaluations and do that. I was going to say, I mean, how have you noticed the rates of kind of comorbidities with when you've got a physical ailment and then the mental ailment comes in?

How has that changed over the course of your career? Because from all of my research, it used to be either you kind of developed a mental disorder or you or you developed a physical health disorder and then we dealt with it now all of the research seems to be on how do you deal with both at the same time i don't i think part of that is the result of the fact that we are aging so much and so as you age necessarily medical conditions are going to have more neurologic effects they're also going to have more neurologic effects. They're also going to have psychiatric effects. And this is the part that people are mostly ignorant of.

So when I first got working at a psychiatric hospital in 1985, my job was to figure out the medical piece. Is there psychiatric syndrome because of a medical problem? Is there psychiatric syndrome making any medical problems worse? Are the psychiatric medications causing medical syndrome making any medical problems worse? Are the psychiatric medications causing medical problems or making medical problems worse? It's a very complicated interrelationship that has been largely ignored, to your point. And as you age, it gets that much more complicated, that much more intense. So there's the neurologic and there's the psychiatric. And we do very little to really, in an integrative and systematic way,

evaluate all that stuff i mean i was going to ask how do you feel about the rates of prescriptions because we over prescribe yeah what's weird about our country is we over prescribe and we under prescribe yes okay we over prescribe in certain environments with certain conditions and then under prescribed in other areas with other conditions god it's almost as if like these uh these places where there are over-prescriptions, there might be money involved in those systems. Yeah, there's money involved, but there's also over-reliance.

Yes, there's money involved, but also there's over-reliance on the medical system for being able to solve problems. That's where my kind of work comes in. Which came first, though? The over the over prescription that created a dependence or yeah it's it's it's both it's both culpable but but i will tell you the one common thread that you're sort of zeroing in on which i like talking about is that in this country we have decided that we will not tolerate ordinary misery ordinary Ordinary misery is a part of life.

Oh, completely. And it's actually, it's what we did wrong in our child rearing in the last 20 years or so, is letting kids fail and be miserable so they develop grit and problem-solving skills. We've decided that ordinary misery is completely anathema and we will not have it. Yeah. And that's where the over-utilization of the medical system gets kicked in does that make sense yeah i can see that i've uh i've definitely observed well i had like a very different upbringing i think to a lot of people my age in that i was constantly either surrounded by adults or children my age who didn't speak my language because i got around well we got to travel a lot as a family yeah um and then when i go back to school,

obviously I had a very different lived experience. So I would surround myself with kids that had a similar kind of thing, like very, very much that level. At least you could find that in Europe. You couldn't even find that here. I mean, I moved out here. I do have friends in my demographic.

I find it almost impossible to date anyone within, like they have to be at least 10 years older than me otherwise i'm just like i just can't like yes i've had depression guess what like sometimes i just want to die it sounds it sounds like more fun than being alive and people tell me i'm crazy for thinking that which i don't think is true i think a lot of people go through that idea of like oh god this is absolutely fucking bollocks i just don't want to do it anymore and uh yeah that's where those stigmas come in and then everyone my age now goes to therapy and depends on their fucking horoscope i noticed that my daughter lives in brooklyn that's all everybody talks about there but but but i'm a little surprised to hear you say that depression

is not something that people understand and embrace and can sort of deal with that's that's really surprising to me it might i thought that was at least one thing we had right with this with your age group i think maybe i i don't know i again maybe maybe the way you talk about scare a man oh my god i absolutely tariff oh no i tariff on my friends with the way that i talk about it because i have to make a joke out of it yeah like i think that there's like there's this very british approach to uh sad things because everything is sad in britain um where we have yeah it's the weather you know it's oh god yeah it's the weather it's the lack of cannabis legalization um but to a certain extent i think my generation have a far more open mind towards these things like so my depression got

to such a point earlier this year that my two best friends had to take me out to the desert to have the kind of come to jesus conversation with me of you need to get your shit together or you're actually gonna die from this and had i not had those two people who i trusted and who knew me well enough to come in and say let's get you the fuck out of here and get you the help you need. Cause it's not coming from anywhere else. Um, yeah, I wouldn't be here today.

And I, I worry about the, you know, hundreds of thousands of people on our street who don't have anyone that will come in and do that for them and who actually have people who will come in and do the opposite. Yeah. Enable the,

enable the illness, enable the enable the illness enable it make money from it uh make it even worse than it already was like the number of people like women in particular and children who end up on the streets the rates of human and child trafficking that's like on the rise as well yeah it's crazy and it starts i mean for a lot of people it starts with that first kind of oh god i feel sad and i i think that if i'd been from america and if i'd been born and raised here there is a huge motivation within my like age demographic to just completely drop out of society in that way like i can see how people my age really would just be like because of a fuck this shit i'm done because of a common symptom particularly for your age well like i

think so this is pretty much what my book has now become about i mean my generation our first memory really that we can all collectively say that we have is of 9-11 we went from 9-11 into the war on terror which like massively started to polarize us against other racial groups which is a huge issue in the uk as well because we have such a huge integrated islamic community most of my school was islam and then i was being like you know i go home and watch the news and being told to hate this religion and yet i go to school and all my friends aren't this religion so we would start to get polarized against each other then social media comes in and makes it so much easier and i usually use the c word in this but i'm not because this live stream is my first one

but we come in and we're just such fuckers to one another on social media and it makes it so much easier to be a bastard and then you throw in things like therapy you throw in things like there's over dependency on like uh things like horoscopes we self-isolate because we think it's the right thing to do because all of our friends are going to therapy all of our friends are depending on their horoscopes when really we need to just be sitting in a room together having a conversation about how shitty things are and coming up with informed solutions like i know that i'm doing this now i'm a hugeite. Like we all just sit and prevaricate about these solutions. But until we break down the stigmas and start actually accepting what's normal and saying it's normal to be depressed, it's normal to not like society right now. It's a terrifying place.

I mean, you know, Carol, who was on here earlier, she and I, like we've talked about this before because she's like, she's just such a brilliant mind on this subject. But when women, like, I'm scared to go out and walk down the street on my own. Other women are scared to go outside and walk down the street on their own. After a while, these things kind of compound, you get scared, you've got a society that doesn't really look like it's kind of going anywhere. You've got things like climate change, you go to your your device which is like permanently attached to like everyone now and all that's coming through there is fear hate i mean what the fuck else are we supposed to do at this point like i would i would argue and maybe this is my my age here is that we tend to solve

these things but we don't know that yet i know we haven't experienced this and i talk about this but i don't know what but i don't know what kind of crisis you have to go through before you do well the other thing the other difference i kind of came up with or discovered between you know kind of the millennial and say the the baby boomer and the gen x generation i know you just easily say to me, write that, okay, Boomer. Okay, Boomer. Yeah, yeah. But you guys had a hell of a lot of time before all the shit started to kick in.

Before. Sort of. You guys knew that the world was a good place. No, we had bomb rehearsals every two weeks. We had to go in the basement of the school where the air raid siren went off. We had to hang a break because there was going, and in the 80s, there was going to be a nuclear attack we all had to watch a tv show

called the day after which was to tell us what it was going to be like the day after the nuclear attack we were going to have we were just accepting of nuclear holocaust so you were accepting that it was that someone in a room somewhere was going to press the button and it's game over. That our government was going to misbehave in such a way that something bad happened. Constantly, constantly hanging over us. I mean, think about a second grader going downstairs and putting your hands over your head and ducking and sitting there for an hour while the air raid sirens went as a rehearsal for when we get our nuclear attack.

You didn't know we did that? I mean, I couldn't get it. I understand. We don't have drills like that in the way but like we have kids going through that with like active shooters and i hate to you know diminish what you went through oh you're right people actually go in and shoot up schools so like my generation not that i'm trying to compare because you know you can't it's two completely different contexts but the difference being is that the shit that we're scared of actually fucking happens and like we we talked about this a little bit on your show to do with different contexts but the difference being is that the shit that we're scared of actually fucking happens and like we we talked about this a little bit on your show to do with climate change

and um you mentioned that uh one of your friends is like very very confident that we're going to be able to deal with it and he's an excellent thought leader on this millennials need to see the action yeah like until we see that the quote grown-ups are doing something to deal with these crises yeah i get that we don't think we have a future yeah like we don't have health care we don't have uh proper wealth we have wealth inequality which is a definite thing um i get it and yeah i get it and we need to we need we need to have some successes here and changing things but i think we can deal with a lot of this by just talking to one another like i think if more generations like intergenerational conversations and networks i mean just just just have the conversation understand one another's like

difference in the lived experience but i oh yes for sure but but i do agree with you that you need to see some things change yes i completely with that. We need to see the action. Because right now, all we're watching is this bloody genocide. Here is Joe. Joe. Joe. Hello? Hey, Joe.

Hello? Hey. Hi. Dr. Drew, thank you so much for taking my call. You bet. Hey, I wanted to thank you.

First of all, I'm coming up on six years sober and I wouldn't have gotten there as soon without your nudging. The VH1 shows you did really nudged me in the right direction. I thank you so much for being a part of my sobriety. I'm glad.

That's why we did them. So glad. Hey, so someone who was very important to me in my early sobriety was a girl that I kind of dated and we used to drink and do coke and party and whatever and have a good time. When she found out that I was getting serious about sobriety, she was right there for me. She went to meetings with me and was a great friend. I haven't heard from her for about the past year, and I moved to Los Angeles about six months after getting sober, so we haven't seen each other for a while. But the last time I talked to her, it was very strange.

She said that she had moved to Alaska, and people were after her, and the government was doing experiments on her. I didn't even recognize her. It was very scary. Is that delusion or schizophrenia or drugs? It's delusion. I'm very afraid for her. Okay, so she's delusional.

How old is she? She's 38. Okay, schizophrenia doesn't come on age 38. You said she was on some medication. Do you know what that medication was for? No, I don't know if she was on medication or not. I thought you said something about her not taking medication. I don't think so.

No, I don't know if she was on medication. I know she used to drink and party and stuff. I don't think she's ever been on any kind of medication. All right. So the reason I was asking that was if she was on some sort of antipsychotic medication before from something that happened in her 20s, that would make sense as a major mental illness. But if she's developing psychotic symptoms in her late 30s, that's drugs. And so you need to understand the difference between a cocaine psychosis and an amphetamine psychosis. developing psychotic symptoms in her late 30s that's drugs and so the the one that you know

you need to understand the difference between a cocaine psychosis and an amphetamine psychosis so cocaine psychosis is usually with crack and it's rapidly developing it develops over a few days and it's a always a preoccupation with uniformed officers. People in uniforms are outside coming to get me. Police, SWAT, somebody in uniforms out there coming in. With meth, it's much more elaborate, much more bizarre, and always involves preoccupations with people around them, friends, neighbors, coworkers, that kind of thing. And this sounds more like that.

And the delusions can be really wild, and they're very fixed, and they can continue even for months after you stop doing the math. Now, she is convinced that it is an online community of these people. I don't know if you've heard of this, but I listen to some other podcasts and stuff, the people that think that they're, quote, targeted individuals, that the government is running experiments on. You're familiar with this? Yes.

It's very scary. I mean, is she mentally ill or is she on drugs? Because I know people who come back from drugs. It sounds more like meth more than anything else. Now, I don't know. I mean, a lot of things can cause these symptoms, but somebody getting it in her late 30s who used to party, just putting it all together, it sort of sounds meth-esque.

It may not be. There may be other things, even brain tumors, thyroid conditions, other things can cause this as well. So it is important that she get to some help. And her being reinforced in her delusions by an online community is not helping her. Sure. So what can I do to help her? It's rough, man. If you're not in the vicinity where she is, it's usually they go to a place where they start getting kind of aggressive

and somebody kind of hauls them in. That's typically what happens. Yeah. Well, she moved, you know, like I said, she moved from the Pacificific northwest to alaska to live with some friends who i've never heard of and um i'm very worried for her well maybe just bring that up and sort of gently don't don't walk on eggshells around her but just gently bring up have you seen a doctor about it is anybody taking care of you i'm worried about you and uh see if you can urge her into some kind of medical care so she can at least get an evaluation her, but just gently bring up, have you seen a doctor about it? Is anybody taking care of you? I'm worried about you.

See if you can urge her into some kind of medical care so she can at least get an evaluation so they can figure out what this is. The kind of distance you're at from her is just too much. Too much. Thank you for the call, man. My goodness, we have lots of great calls here. Oh.

Let's try this. This is Abigail from Canada. Abigail. Hi. Hi, Dr. Drew. How are you? I'm good. What's going on?

Hello. Hi there. Can you hear us? Wow. I'm so excited to speak with you. Can you hear me clearly? Loud and clear. Hello. We hear you. You're not hearing us, excited to speak with you. Can you hear me clearly? Loud and clear. Hello?

We hear you. You're not hearing us, but we're hearing you. Okay. And by the way, let me just say, I just want to say something, Abigail, before you go on. I know there's a little bit of a delay here. That's what's screwing us up. But I also know there was some drop-off in the streaming, and I apologize to people if they've seen this dropping off.

The actual video download will be available, and it's complete, and the podcast will be complete. So none of that dropping is occurring in what we're recording. It just was something to do with our internet here. So, Abigail, what's going on? Okay. I'm inquiring about alternative treatments, medication-assisted treatments, medical-assisted detoxification for alcohol and drug addiction.

Basically, the conditions conditions alcohol use disorder, concomitant alcohol use disorder, long-standing PTSD, depression, anxiety, all from a veteran, childhood trauma, including kidnapping abuse, witnessing abuse, family history, alcoholism, depression. It's a lot. It's a lot.

So I'm wondering what alternative treatments are available. Alternatives, and he's been through traditional treatment? Well, my brother, who's a veteran, has been in rehab on two occasions at one particular center and is to go back to a veterans program in the new year. And he's been in other rehabs. You know, he's not getting better. So, you know, we're at this point where we're a little, you know, desperate for help. Does he want help? Yes. He's very anxious to go back, especially into the veterans program in the new year.

Um, so it's not, it's not a fight like when, when he was younger, you know, it was always a struggle in the new year. So it's not a fight like when he was younger. You know, it was always a struggle in the past, but, you know, he's willing. Right. So that's great. That's a prognostically much, much better situation. It seems like it's the psychiatric symptoms that are confounding things, which is often the case. The way I would approach something like this is look at it as a one to two year horizon.

This is not something he's going to go into for a few weeks and there's a magic alternative treatment out there for him. So you've got to think of the structure. I mean, he's been sick his whole life. And so you have to have structure for him of a one to two year duration. So he's got to be living in a halfway house or therapeutic living environment of some type for an extended period of time. The other key ingredient, well, two key ingredients,

he needs trauma-informed care, whether it's EMDR or some sort of actual trauma, specific trauma therapies where people really know what they're doing with that. Number three, he has to be in a veterans group. That being in a group with men and women like him that have been through what he's been through, there's something about that that is absolutely necessary in recovering from this. People feel as though, veterans feel as though non-veterans, non-combat veterans particularly,

cannot understand what it's like unless somebody's been through it and they need that in order to connect with them. And then finally, whatever psychiatric symptoms he's having needs to be aggressively treated, particularly in the short term, aggressively treated. Sorry, that's about all I got. And I know it's a lot to think about and a lot to fulfill. And I just wish you the best with it. But think of it as a long-termterm proposition not something that's going to get better in a few weeks or even a few months how do you feel about things like if if if an individual has all of the other care around them how what is your perspective on things like ayahuasca lsd things like that uh i i'm fascinated by it i've been doing a lot of research on it i i have i'm going to get a guy on this show, actually,

that's a shaman that says he's done 40,000 sort of plant-informed care with trauma, and he claims great outcomes. The research isn't there for me to go, you've got to go do that, unfortunately. But particularly for trauma, it looks like there's something there. That's so interesting.

Because I know a little bit about it in regards to getting over drug addiction like cleansing okay the drug addiction part yeah the drug addiction part i know the ibogaine particularly is very popular i've seen you know that i thought ibogaine was something that was made up by hunter s thompson back in the day no no ibogaine people would go my patients would go down to mexico and get it all the time because it was going to cure drug addiction. There are places that do that down there. And then ayahuasca can do it too.

Yeah, yeah. Being used, similar, there's similar things, DMT essentially. And I've seen it work when it's a dependent, non-addicted person. So you can, in other words, let me be clear about this. You can get strung out on opiates, look like a drug addict, behave like a drug addict, but not be a drug addict the way I think about drug addicts. In other words, you don't have the genetic disorder. You don't want to keep using after you've stopped.

Those severely drug-dependent people do seem to be helped by this stuff. Addicts sometimes are helped. My concern is when I've seen it help, I've only seen it help for six months, but that's not nothing. It's something, so it's doing something. And I've seen some personality changes. And that always, when the person is changed by a drug, I always get very, very worried.

The psychiatric literature and the psychedelic literature has defended changes. That's how we got lobotomies, because people went, well, they were much nicer after lobotomies. I mean, when the people change as a result of the treatment, I take issue with it. It's changing the personhood. Now I'm gravely concerned. So that's been my concern.

What kind of changes? Just not the same person. But what does that, because I would say. Like vague and nicer and uh just clearly changed not not in the sense psychologically changed okay like biologically changed not responding as quickly and not as engaging not so like like just different okay i i think you're trying not to use certain words here maybe well no because it's because i've not seen it tested formally and it's always done they were always doing it on the dl and i couldn't really get the before and after formally assessed

and and and i'm sure people can do it without having that effect i just don't know who and for how much and what dosing and what and that's why i want to get this guy in here that does claim to be an expert in all this and see he he would be able to maybe talk about it more clearly one time i went fishing in croatia with uh an ex-boyfriend and his family as everyone does as everyone does um i mean it's europe it's like it used to be 20 quid to fly to croatia but um uh i guess we went fishing caught these uh little sea bream i don't i don't know exactly what these bream fed off, but I guess it was some kind of algae. We're in America.

Algae. Not algae. That had some super duper active component in it that was similar to DMT. Oh, interesting. So his whole family, they're all like well over six. Even his mother was over six foot. And so we eat like a couple of these fish. It's, you know, no big deal.

Did you know this was going to happen? Oh, no. No. So I walk out of their apartment we're just gonna go like wander around riecha for a couple of hours and i get just like a couple of steps outside the door and i was like i'm gonna die from this i'm gonna die from this i'm gonna die from and then he went and did all of the research to find out what it was and i was just kind of lying in bed like this for about a day and uh that put me off doing there is another fish disease called i'm blanking the name but it's it's a it's a neurotoxin oh is that the one

where you can't drink anymore no it's not that it's where you get sort of paralyzed and nausea and that but but i don't know about the psychiatric oh i was oh no i was like i was hallucinating oh my goodness it was so interesting i mean it's not like pink elephants, but it's like, you know, kind of when you do acid, you see like the corners of the room move and what have you. It was more like that. Yeah. It was. Yeah, it was great.

So if you want to go party, go to Croatia. Did you want to stop doing drugs after that? I, so I've never been that cool. Like, I mean, growing up in Europe, you're always kind of exposed to these things. Like we have a really healthy party life and attitude and culture but i was always the first person to leave the party i was you know call that a lightweight yeah i used to be able to sink like eight pints and like debate anyone and you know i can i can still drink like a brett but no i was always too much of a kind of stoner easy

rider type. Let's all just love each other, guys. Like, you know, you can't do the work when you can't do that much. What changed? Maybe it was that fish episode. Probably. Yeah. Maybe I went through a personality check. Guys, we've got to wrap this up.

There are so many great calls here. We will try to keep them for next time. We have a video. We have a video? We have a video. Oh, we have a video. I think it's… Oh, no one noticed the banana. Oh, yeah. We have our video. We have a video? We have a video. Oh, we have a video. I think it's... Oh, no one noticed the banana.

Oh, yeah, we have our art installment. It's worth $250,000. And we have an art installment here. I'm... Maybe somebody will have the... What do they call it? What did that guy call it when he ate the banana? The living art sort of expression?

I won't eat the banana. You won't eat the banana. Okay. The misproducer is gonna performance art the performance art of eating artists eating banana producers on a keto diet so let's watch this video and see who this is from hey dr drew it's leanne um i am at home getting ready to leave for the Nutcracker. We're taking the kids today and that's why I couldn't be in the studio with you. But I'm making this little video to say it's been an incredible experience this last year with you hosting on KABC. I think I've told you multiple times that sitting across the mic from you was such a wonderful learning experience for me. I felt like

I was in college or just somewhere where it was all about higher learning and getting educated and learning what the facts and the data were. And I can't thank you enough. It's been a real honor. It's been a privilege. I know our relationship goes back to almost 20 years now when I first went on KROQ and Loveline with you and Adam Carolla as a guest when I was doing the Best Damn Sports show. And we've been friends ever since. I did your podcast, I remember, and that's when I told you I was such a huge fan of your HLN TV show, Dr. Drew on call.

And you said, Hey, why don't you come on and be a guest on there? And that was a few years of fun to being a part of that. So we've had a long relationship. We've done a lot of different things. I don't think this is the end, even though this chapter is closing. There's a lot of different forums out there that we can continue our fight, not only for the people of Los Angeles, but all over this country. You are doing great work. You care about people and you care about issues. And I'm telling you, drdrew2020.com. I'm going to get that domain name. You have to run for office. We need you. Everyone needs you.

And I think you're the man that can help turn the ship around in Los Angeles and make a difference in California. So I will be there to support you. I love you. I love Sue. I love the kids. I know this isn't the end, but I will finish with this. Help us, Dr. Drew Penske.

You're our only hope. You have to run for office. All right. Have a great show. Oh, Leanne. Help Obi-Wan. Leanne, thank you. That was very, very sweet. The privilege was mine. You were great. We talked to Mike and

Lauren today, too, and this whole experience has been very, very positive. So I hope we do more shows in the future. Yeah. So look what you've been exposed to. I know. I feel so lucky to have been able to come on the show. I know.

We didn't know. It was like the day or the day before we found out. Oh, my gosh. I think so. Maybe a few days before. Yeah. So you've got about 12 million other shows that are going to be coming out. So we're going to figure something else out.

We'll keep it going. And I feel bad all these people are waiting on hold and we're not going to get to them. And I apologize to you guys that we did not get to. Yeah, call back next time. We'll put the blast out at drdrew.tv. Kay, where can people find you? ksmith.com.

Just Google Kay Smythe. S-M-Y-T-H-E. T-H-E. Not Smith. Smythe. Thanks, parents, for that one. Meaning having to every time, every time, not Smith Smythe thanks thanks parents for that one so meaning having to

every time every time at every roll call and every yeah it's K K-A-Y there's no T

or E oh my god yeah but um that's yeah that's it let it go let it go

it's all good thank you for being here really appreciate it really a privilege and congratulations in all you're doing and I hope you do a lot more because I think it can make a big difference oh thank you for being here really appreciate it really a privilege and congratulations in all you're doing and I hope you do a lot more because I think it can make

a big difference oh thank you we'll talk to you more we'll get more stuff going that would be great thank you so much for having me thank you guys for calling and watching

and we'll see you next time hey Dr. Drew here and this is just a reminder that the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care or medical evaluation. This is purely for entertainment and education. We hope you learned something, but see your doctor.

Get proper medical care.