Ask Dr. Drew - Ask Dr. Drew - Robert Marbut and Leeann Tweeden - Episode 8

Episode Date: February 5, 2020

Ask Dr. Drew is joined by Leeann Tweeden and Robert Marbut, director of the US Interagency Council on Homelessness. Missed the live show? Get an alert when Dr. Drew is taking calls: http://drdrew.tv Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation and Susan Sailer Pinsky. THE SHOW: For over 30 years, Dr. Drew Pinsky has taken calls from all corners of the globe, answering thousands of questions from teens and young adults. To millions, he is a beacon of truth, integrity, fairness, and common sense. Now, after decades of hosting Loveline and multiple hit TV shows – including Celebrity Rehab, Teen Mom OG, Lifechangers, and more – Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio in California. On Ask Dr. Drew, no question is too extreme or embarrassing because the Dr. has heard it all. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. Thank you all for being here. Another episode of Ask Dr. Drew. Welcome back. We are going to be talking with our friend Leanne Tweeden, who stays with me. You can find her at Leanne Tweeden, L-E-E-A-N-N Tweeden, T-W-E-E-D-E-N. I hope you were with us that last hour.

Leanne, of course, did a show with me on KBC for about a year. And you've known her for many different television and radio projects, primarily in the sports area. But she and I have been talking, it seems like incessantly, about homelessness. And I think, I've been talking about it for a couple of years, but I think with working with Leanne, we became emotional. And so we've been doing what we can to try to help solve that problem. And we're going to be joined in the studio in just a moment by the U.S. Interagency Council on Homelessness, what has been called the drug czar, except this administration does not have czars, so he'll give us that history in just a moment. Mr. Robert G. Marbutt, he's going to be with us in just a second. I'm going to take a quick break

for some business, and we'll be back to talk about really what this problem is and what we all think we need to do to solve it. Be right back. The CBD industry is still pretty much the Wild West when it comes to claims and criticisms, the science is catching up with the industry. We will have clinical science soon enough. And there seems to be an overwhelmingly positive response these days to CBD's efficacy. We've all heard the reports. And luckily, our good friends at Social CBD are raising the industry testing standards. They like to say they are test obsessed.

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Stop using ancient technology. Sand midi, it will solve your problems. All right, we are back everybody. The United States Interagency Council on Homelessness called USICH, am I getting that acronym correct? Independent Federal Agency within the executive branch that leads to implementation of federal strategic plans to prevent and end homelessness. It has advised, it's advised by a council, which includes the heads of 20 federal

member agencies. And Robert Marbut is the head of this organization. It is such a privilege to have you here. Thank you for having me. That's a real, real privilege. And Leanne, can you imagine? I know. I just, gosh, I wish a year ago we were having this conversation. Yes. Leanne and I have expressed many, many hours of frustration and fear and concern. We said it three hours a day, every day. And when I had the privilege of going and speaking at the White House, I met Mr. Marba, and I was like, we have our man.

Our man's in the right spot. Dr. Ben Carson was kind of first. He was a physician. He understood where you were coming from with the diseases. So we talked to Ben on our radio show. And for me, it was like doing a handoff after call. I was like, here are the cases. And he's like, got it, got it, got it, got it.

And he goes, here's what we need to do. I was like, yes, that's what we need to do. And Secretary Carson's amazing. He gets this issue so deeply. But he gets it as a clinician, a scientist, and a physician. And that's how he gets it. And then he's looking solution as an administrator, right? Right.

Which I know is a hard, he's expressed many times how tough that job is. He said, being a neurosurgeon, nothing as compared to being the administrator, the head of HUD. Yeah. He's HUD, right? I was going to excuse him. He's an ASR. HHS is ASR. Yeah.

And who also is a very impressive man. I spent time with him. Very impressive, yes. Really interesting dude. So here you are. You're visiting us in really the epicenter of this problem. I came to the White House and talked about how we got here in terms of how we eviscerated the state system for managing mental health and, to some extent, drug addiction. And we've forsaken these people, and now they are dying at the rate of three a day in our streets.

Give us the national perspective, and give us some idea about how you want to sketch out a solution. Well, I'm a big believer you've got to know exactly what the problem is before you try to solve it. For sure. And there's a lot of people trying to solve a problem from a sort of an advocacy point of view, and they're not looking at it clinically.

They're not looking at real data. I used to run a lot of places i've helped homeless centers assistance centers and transformational campuses i've helped probably 150 communities actually address this so i take it a lot different i start always with data and then you know everybody always comes in i'm amazing when i go to the community. Because we would talk to scientists and a lot of times they just want to get to the answer they want to get to instead of letting the data lead them there. Arguing from conclusion, I would say.

I've gone to so many communities and I had one of my handlers, this is literally my last project, and I said, watch what happens. So I asked 20 people in a row in meetings, I said, what do you think the problem is? And they went, 19 out of 20 went right into the solution. Yeah, yeah.

And so you have to understand the numbers first, then you go depart from there. And that's so important. And what we know about the numbers, let's sort of work LA out. LA is roughly one fourth, just a little less than one fourth of the overall unsheltered situation for the whole United States.

It's just unbelievable. And then that is mostly centered in a few spots, too. And so then you go to California, and roughly almost half of the situation statewide California is half of the overall United States. So there are many parts of united states are actually dropping and and so and when you look they're all coming here and and when you look at the data you actually see where policies are contributing to the problem sure as we talked

about at the white house summit uh that when when we went to deinstitutionalization sort of from the left, and from the right you went from, why are we in that business? Okay, so let's drill in a little bit. So there was a systematic policy since the 60s to choke the institutionalization state systems to death. That started with Kennedy, right? Because a lot of people want to blame Ronald Reagan for shutting down all the state mental health.

No, it started with the community mental health out in 1963. It was a great idea, horribly executed, run by people that didn't know what they were doing, and it just didn't work. And in the meantime, they did successfully choke out the health care systems, the state hospitals, with no plan

for what to do with the people that came out of the hospitals. That's the deinstitutionalization part. Absolutely. And the other part you were saying? And so let's run that a little bit. So people that were getting help and treatment in recovery are now no longer getting any treatment. Right. With chronic illnesses.

Yeah, so where does this group go? This cohort goes to the emergency rooms the emergency departments that's today jails to the street streets in the hospitals nursing homes or they die or they die today we decided they have to die right which is incredible and so when you look at the the that number of people they and people say well what happened that's part of this you have to go back to that that's one of the major contributing factors then the feds about seven or eight years ago started making some decisions and policies that really were not good so so let me let me before we fill those out the the states were sort of happening because a lot of states were fiscally conservative,

you said, from the right. So a lot of the states contributed to the problem by saying, hey, we don't want this expense anyway. You guys take it. Didn't give any thought to whether it was going to be effective or not. They just said, okay, fine. We don't want the expense. You take it. Didn't work, right? That was part of the rights problem. Meaning they weren't making any money on these healthcare facilities? No, no. the states had an expense and they were like hey fed want to take it go take it so go ahead and and so what happens is we're spending the money now you're spending it in different bad places right so the question is that oil commercial pay me now a little bit or pay me a lot later when the transmission and the whole engine goes yeah and so it is much

better to use your money very smartly yes and and and likewise a lot of people say we need more vouchers we need more money that doesn't make any sense unless what we're doing is right well and we're not there yet we've been talking about this for so long on the air that last year la county and la city spent over a billion dollars. Our homelessness, the crisis, and the number of people went up like 16, 17 percent. So you're going to tell me that a billion dollars, if worked effectively, is going to make homelessness worse? No, of course not. I feel like we're throwing away money. We're spending $40 million to power wash sidewalks that they move their tents and come right back.

But we're doing nothing for the people that are living on the streets and dying on our streets absolutely and we have a graphic can we go to the graphic now is that possible let's do it here's the graphic we'll show you a graphic that gives you the real example and this is this and so if you look at the purple line over to the bottom left that in the green bottom portion is what we call unsheltered homelessness so these are people experiencing unsheltered this is the street the bridges the marinas etc and if you if you look from 2007 2014 it was going down 31.4% going down rapidly rapidly now that's not an annualized that that's the total period of time and then it starts to change in 13 and 14 and then actually goes up

and the inflection point is a 50 inflection point and it's steadily going up and what's incredible for a statistician is look how close the r graph you know the r data when you look at the linear regression on it the the bar almost captures every movement there's a few little small outliers, but basically the data is tight. So it begs the question, what happens in 2013, 2014? That inflection point where it started getting worse, what was going on? It's a sharp, clean inflection point. And then go look at the top. That's the overall homelessness number, 15.6%.

And so that's all the assistance beds of all five types of assistance beds, plus the people that are in no assistance on the street, and it goes up 15.6%. So what's going on in 2013? We fundamentally changed how we approached homelessness. We went in and said, we're just giving you a voucher and we're walking away and we're moving away from- Mark Alynor Houser Housing first. Mark Alynor Houser Right around services. Mark Alynor Houser Housing first. Mark Alynor Houser That's right. Mark Alyn and we're moving away from housing first housing first

housing first housing housing prop 47 became very big in california what 2014 it was implemented so all the crimes of doing drugs or being able to be taken off the street by a police officer put in front of a judge to say do you want jail time do you want a drug treatment program has been taken off the table and and across the board you see movement of, we're just going to try to get a roof on you and not have any supportive services. And we moved from it being a requirement to maybe you have it to almost nothing. And in the little red bar area, often that's manifesting its stuff around the country is one case management meeting once a month for an hour nothing and so that's not

addressing anything so when you look at this data that you got to ask well what happened and we moved to a thing called what's housing first which to me is the medical equivalent of going to an ER and ED without any nurses and doctors right go to emergency room and it's empty and we empty. And we give you a voucher and then some people say, well, that's mean or that's tough. If you get a Pell Grant in education, we require you to attend 12 hours a unit. We require a GPA. Yes, sir. And you have to graduate in three years in most cases. If you get unemployment insurance in most states, you have to go to 10 interviews or such even in section 8 housing their requirements but somehow for this one

unique social problem that there's the we don't want to require services yet we need to have services and whether they're the most seriously ill it's literally is like trying to treat us expecting a sick person to get well when you stop treatment. Right. Or we say we have all the, we have billions of dollars in what we've taxed ourself here twice in California, triple H and H money. And they're trying to build, you know, now almost a million dollar apartments. And I said to Dr. Drew, I go, suddenly you're going to give a guy a million dollars, $750,000

apartment that's been homeless, that has schizophrenia or whatever. And suddenly when he walks through the threshold with his new set of keys to his apartment his schizophrenia goes away well are we are we insane here because I feel like we're in it because what lost you the house the first time you will lose the house the second time and third time if it's not treated fourth time it's not treated whatever that catalytic event that lost the house the first time has to be addressed if you want sustainable housing. Psychiatric illness is defined by difficulty functioning. That's what defines a psychiatric illness. And it starts with difficulty functioning at work.

And then it goes to difficulty functioning in relationships. Then it goes to difficulty functioning in your family. Then it goes to difficulty functioning with your nutritional needs. And then it goes to difficulty functioning finding living place space. It's the lowest functioning.'s when when the disease has gotten so severe you lose everything including where you live and you've literally described the cycle of most people experiencing homeless there's a catalytic stress event that occurs and then you start to lose your your friends and then you lose all of the goodwill from your family

from your friends they're like okay you've been on my couch enough you're giving me grief move on and exactly and then you stop making it to work and then you eventually lose work and then you lose your credit rating and then you lose your your your house and then you lose your car if you're there and so it's a it's a progression down and if we don't address those real clinical issues and not everybody in it but i'm talking my understanding is my understanding is that that we're talking we're talking about you and i are and the three of us today are talking about the chronically homeless right right the people that are transiently homeless i've seen data that

suggest on the streets of los angeles on average three months yeah so somebody who's just down on their luck but not part of an illness that's progressing, they spend an average of three months on the streets. And a lot of times they get back into the home that they were in before this event. And it's so much more cost-effective to prevent the entry into homelessness. And I would even go so far

as the individuals you're describing, because not everybody has behavioral and mental health issues. Not everybody has substance disorder issues. They're saying 85% in the latest issues. Not everybody has substance disorder issues. They're saying 85% in the latest data. But it's the highest amount. But there are some. But that doesn't mean you don't need case management.

You may need job coaching. But here's the deal. Here's the deal. Case management was invented for psychiatric patients. Correct. So it kind of defines a psychiatric case. Well, I mean, how interesting. Before, when we were doing our show on KBC, right, Dr. Drew, we would talk to a lot of politicians, a lot of LA councilmen, a lot of people that are putting

the money and saying, we need housing and we need this. And I would push back, you would push back. And it was always, you know, they're trying to say, oh, it's housing, it's this, it's that. And we would say they need stuff. And you would say wraparound services. And they kind of hated that word because they don't, it's almost like they don't want to associate certain things with people you know they have empathy and sympathy for the people that are homeless and there's different reasons and then you would sort of work it back out well they need to see a case manager they need to see somebody about maybe getting back into the workforce they need to see somebody about their mental health and they're like yes exactly and goes, those are wraparound services. Yeah. That's exactly right. I mean, yeah.

And I don't care if you- They make the case for us. Right. I don't care if you call it wraparound services, permanent supportive services, or case management. Whatever you call it. Or psychiatric hospitalization. It's all the same thing. Just different words. Thank you.

It's holistic services that treat the catalytic event that's unique to you, me, and you. We all have different- To be fair, this is, I think, something that people will find very interesting. That I am totally interested in and supportive of the idea of community settings with a high degree of focus on

participation and vocational rehab, which are psychiatric things, but you do it in some sort of environment of care. It doesn't have to be a hospital, right? And they're doing, this is like the Trieste plan. This is Fort Collins in Colorado.

What do you think of those kinds of plans? And one of the ones I was involved with, Haven for Hope, we have placed 13,000 people, permanent supportive housing and market rate housing over a nine plus year. We've reduced street level homelessness, chronic level homelessness, unsheltered homeless, 85% in the year now.

Where was it? In San Antonio, Texas, and right up the street in Austin, they took that, they bought into housing first. And that's now, as you see what's on TV, they're becoming a little mini Los Angeles and a mini Berkeley. And we're only about 80 miles apart. We're in virtually the same television, media, broader market.

And they took a very different approach than what San Antonio did. And the people who followed after me and Bill Gree, who's been the chair, did an amazing thing. And it has worked. And so those settings really do work. Describe those settings. It is. They have 100 plus federal, state, local government agencies there. Non-profit agencies there.

Faith-based agencies there. Now, how do you pull that off? We were told you can't deal with faith-based organizations. Why not? Or that they couldn't get federal money. And what you want to do is you want to have as many, this problem is so big i need everybody we need everybody and when you start saying i'm going to make a rule and you can't

help but only you can oh my god you see what they do publicly or privately like dr andy bale's or reverend andy bale's you see what he's doing works of course yeah we can't give him more money to kind of let him do what's working and being effective and he is part of an overall group about 300 he has like 399 peers city gate and they they have an amazing system and they have amazing success yet they almost get virtually no federal money now right because they've been they used to get federal money and now they're out and so why is that why can't we help well in our view is we need all the help from anybody if you if you do a program that works for us we want your help

that's my and and i know that's controversial but my view is so now reverend might be able to get money because we're in a crisis why is it controversial by the way we're in a crisis and in los angeles and california you have more people dying than we've ever seen any time in the history of measuring mr marbet uh and tell people why you're not the czar i want you to be the czar but i'm the executive director but there's no czars no czars even though the press uses that term all the time uh that's my constant refrain to these people that will not contemplate turning around that data we just pushed up on the screen, which is what does the body count need to be before they listen to

you? Let's make this... There it is again. We need to realize this is not a complicated issue. It is complex, but it's not complicated. If you go to the dictionary, there's a difference. One implies you can fix it, but you're going to have to be scientific about it. The other one is you can't fix it. You're in a quagmire. This is complex and it's fixable. And many communities have figured out how to do it. So why aren't we replicating that rather than going to some crazy policies?

Period. Right. And I feel like there are so many enablers and people that do feel like they're doing good, but we know on the back end. They're killing people. They're killing people. You're enabling. We have a guy, Max, that lives out where I live,

and hopefully everybody on our Facebook page is watching this right now on our homeless page. Fern, thank you so much for your work. But it's like we have a guy there that's been arrested two nights in a row. He comes out. We know. We've seen video of him. He's like, I'm looking for my wife in my house,

and he's been in San Diego, and he's looking in West Hills. He's in Woodland Hills. He's over there in Chatsworth. I know you're keeping it from me. We can't get this guy help. We can't get him off the street. What is the problem? You know, it's so frustrating that now it's affecting

seemingly everybody else's mental health. All the people that have worked all their lives to move out to the suburbs, put their nest egg in a home and now their kids can't walk across the street, or they have to walk across the street to avoid underpasses or people like Max that are taking up the entire bus stop that have their tents open all day long, and cops can't do anything.

The other day on our Facebook page, there was a man that I'd seen taking my kid to preschool, had his pants down in front of the 7-Eleven. Oh, two hours later, guess what I saw on the Facebook page? He's laying on a mattress in the middle of our street. And guess what? Two cops just pulled over, stood out of their car,

didn't do anything, Dr. Drew. They just stood there and kind of just tried to make the traffic go around him so he didn't get run over. They have to try to encourage him to move. So this is the other issue. I mean, we have laws that we cannot do anything in the stick and the carrot.

There is no stick anymore. We're not just stick. We just can't do anything. If they're so ill there is no stick anymore and we're not just stick we just can't do anything if they're so ill they they don't know what they're doing in the administration we have a new policy that that that you'll see getting pushed out across all agencies that that the president and the administration wants to push and that is trauma informed treatment plus literally a plus symbol affordable housing equals housing stability and and that is putting the service side back in and getting rebalanced that we used to have and if you really want to get serious about affordable housing you got to get a serious about

affordable construction of course and in california and los ang Angeles when you control for the cost of materials yes and even if you control for the there if you control for the hourly rate difference of construction you're still twice as much because the construction costs here and it's because the fees and the regulations and so what we're suggesting is threefold one wave every fee thank you every hookup everything you have if you're serious about about it wave that number two make it where you can streamline the process of construction into one day it's called a one-stop shop many parts do that around the country here it takes six months 18 months and such like that and and and you just can't be doing that and the other is you we need fire safety uh you need that you need earthquake we're in california you need earthquake of course

but when you start looking at these other 25 categories nobody else in the country has these only california only california for the home and to some extent washington state has a they're trying to catch up and so those three things need to be done and in candidly if you a lot of people say well just give us more vouchers federal government oh my god if you do not increase construction doorknobs that actually units if we flood the market with 50 000 new vouchers we will actually have the counterproductive. We won't place any more new people in place and you'll actually raise the rate. So until we create,

we can't voucher your way out of this. We have to construct our way out and you have to do that with affordable housing. And so the feds need to change the rules on getting back and getting treatment services and care services, wraparound services permanent supportive or holistic care i don't care what you call it we need to get that back into the game and then the locals need to get real serious about deregulating and i mean locals

meaning the cities the county and the state is actually doing some good but most of those are at the city and county level but there's also another problem that we have here in California, and this is not a joke. I don't care where you fall on this on the political spectrum, but we've had a million, maybe a million and a half undocumented immigrants come into Southern California and Los Angeles in the last year. They found homes, maybe on the bottom rung, but you're talking about people that are already probably hanging on to the bottom rung of the ladder that are now falling into homelessness. So is it a housing crisis? Is it something they're creating because we're a sanctuary state?

So you're letting all these people, they have to live somewhere. I don't see a lot of them living on the streets. None of them. Maybe a lot of them are living 10, 20, 30 in a house or something, but they have found themselves housing. So what is it? Is it the problem that they created that we're allowing a lot of people to come in they're finding homes so it's crunching the homes

that people on the bottom rungs that are having a hard time hanging on paycheck to paycheck one thing happens to them they end up on the street or is it that we're not building enough housing it's too expensive all the houses we're building are million dollar apartments that most people can't afford which is it it's like they're creating two problems at once and virtually all the housing costs in california and i mean you know and that means the add-up of the california laws the county laws and then whatever your local city is it's all self-inflicted it is a hundred percent because nobody else in the country has these costs even new york doesn't have these costs. When you control for the land costs. It's righteous here in California to do all those things,

even if people are living on the street. But if you're serious about addressing people dying on the streets, we should be immediately doing it. Wait, hold on. Are they? How long has this been happening now? Years in California. At least waive it for the development

of the homeless housing. At least waive it for that. Yeah, and the amount of people who have died in L.A. County has doubled roughly in six years. Five to six years. And so, to me, we're in a real crisis now. Oh, absolutely. And so, you can waive fees starting on Tuesday. Every city council and state could go out and say, we're going to waive all the fees on affordable housing.

I'm not talking about high-end. Not for everybody. on affordable housing. I'm not talking about high-end. Not for everybody. Just affordable housing. And you can do a one-stop shop where you get all processing done in eight hours, and you only work about what you really need, the life, safety, and the earthquake. You need those. You've got to have those. And you want to have a dignified quality place.

Environment, yeah. But you can't be building $550,000. That's not affordable. It's not anything. And then how does that make the people feel that can't afford their own550,000. That's not affordable. It's not anything. And then how does that make the people feel that can't afford their own $750,000 apartment that work two jobs and that are struggling to pay the rent

and raise their kids in California? You know what I'm saying? It has that feeling of people going, they're breaking the law, walking out with under $950 out of Macy's every day. They don't get caught. They don't even get aacy's every day. They don't get caught. They don't even get a slap on the wrist. They don't even, the cops don't even answer the phone anymore.

It's so frustrating. And then, yeah, people go, oh, you know what? I'll get pulled over for going five miles over the speeding limit because they know I have money and that I'm going to pay the bill. You know what I mean? So it's a frustration that is building in these communities where we're being run over and inundated and it feels like our politicians don't listen. They don't answer phones they're not they're not talking to us they just act like

nothing's wrong oh we just need more money just we just need more taxes so leanne's feeling that she's expresses very clearly and well is is a feeling that a lot of people have in this part they're just sort of boiling over with stuff uh it's it's not an uncommon feeling she's expressing and i knew it had changed a couple of years ago when I had some friends on the Democrat side of the aisle that I had gone to college with out here. And when they started calling me saying, we have a problem in Santa Monica,

they knew I worked in the world of homelessness. And they were like, why is this? And they were ticking through this. And when it sort of got beyond skid row here oh yeah the politics seemed to change and get when it was in one isolated place that was sort of like it's over there you're not always it didn't affect your neighborhood skid row you know it's everywhere that's everywhere right i i have got i've been in la now five days in in san bernardino in the inland empire every highway overpass or underpass

i've seen every single one has multiple tents every street somewhere every street i've driven some segment on the street think about that every single street some segment have you gone to the riverbeds yet oh yes oh yes and and i went walking around uh last night in in um in you know skid road the traditional skid row it's not just one block anymore you know it's that it is everywhere in los angeles and so the great thing is if you want to create affordable housing the elected people can do that immediately they just start on tuesday come back on tuesday start making the changes and i'm talking statewide. And we also need to bring a balance of services and wraparound services where people,

when they do get placed, that they can sustain a housing environment and keep it. That their illnesses get treated. Because if you do that, the housing becomes stable. So let's talk about the illnesses that are ubiquitous throughout the street. By the LA Times' own admission, 85% of people. And whenever I go out and talk to homeless, they'll tell me two things.

We're all on meth, if we're not on heroin, and everyone will have their own mental health and trauma sort of story. Everyone, every 100%. A lot of these people are going to need pharmacotherapy how are we going to do that because how are we going to get them to take it and keep taking it and fund it and what about the people that will need like to be in a facility for the rest of their lives there will be people let's let's do this i have three topics that's one of them let's do pharmacotherapy first so in transformational centers and there are many across the country they they've they've cracked

that nut they know how to do that how to get them to cooperate and that's why they're so successful and they med management and compliance works also long we got to get them funding for long acting absolutely and the the other is uh you know i often say housing first is a tool one tool in a big toolbox what we do know is the group you were talking about that is actually what the first area housing first was used and it actually worked that that's a small group that that works for a sense it got misused across multiple other segments who people have different catalytic events and so we have to understand what the right treatments are okay so pharmacotherapy i i haven't worked with this population for 30 years i know that's your

expertise yeah it's my area i know what the two areas i know is chronic psychotic illness and drug addiction so drug addiction is the next thing how are we going to motivate that because those people are not going to stop doing drugs and and you have to understand it's co-presenting in most cases. And so you can't let... So what you're saying is it's co-occurring, which we call that, which is a psychiatric illness and a drug addiction. But the drug addiction is what's fueling the streets.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And back to we need to understand the real numbers. One number gets thrown back at me a lot when I start talking to the people on the Hill and start saying, how do we start to make these changes? They said, the population on the street is only 15 to 20%.

Well, they're taking the HUD point in time. Drug addiction? Yeah. Not on our streets. 15%. But official reports say that, and here's why. It's a self-report number. Self-report means nothing in psychiatry. They mean nothing.

That's the 18-year-olds with a clipboard. But that's what's in the federal reports. That's ridiculous. So if you really understand, most people who have done what I've done put the numbers somewhere between 78% in Category 1, and in Category 2 is somewhere between 60% and 70%. That's my numbers. And when you put the numbers together, there's a huge's a huge overlap yes yes and you have to address simultaneously in a lot

of states here's the problem a lot of states you can treat one because that's in one department the money comes down right or you can treat the other because that's in another department and you have to treat that together if you want to be successful but the one that we're going to have trouble getting people off the streets and into treatment more than the psychiatric one is the drug addiction one. Absolutely. That's always the hard. Because what did you say, Drew, that drug addicts only respond to three different things, right?

Well, like, you know, getting their freedom taken away. If they lose their life, their freedom, or their child. Those are the three things that motivate drug addicts to want to get better all of a sudden. But if you come here to California and you're just allowed to be a drug addict, you can steal and do everything. But freedom, losing your freedom as well. Yeah, sure.

There's no threat of that anymore here. What was I going to say about the drug addicts? And for this population, I am in favor of medication-assisted treatment. I don't think we're going to get sobriety out of everybody. But let's just get the medicated. I actually just went through a course to be able to prescribe Suboxone.

I'm so committed that this is what we're going to have to do with the street population. Do we have the funds to do it and the personnel to do that? Well, the short answer is we're not spending our money right yet. So we got to get that fixed before you start adding money. Because right now we're putting money in the wrong places. Right, right, right. So you have to start by getting the ship pointed in the right direction first and when people start to see success i think people support it and and and and that's what this president's committed to do with this la initiative and if

this if the and if it comes together and we're optimistic but if it comes together you know we have to get the parties to agree but if it works you'll see some very fast placements on the street. And I am absolutely convinced, because I see it in other communities. When you see another community and the street-level numbers going down and down, while we're successfully placing people who have all the issues you have, that's when people say, you know what, this really does work. And so there's ways to do it. To get behind it.

But you can't handcuff the local providers and say there's ways to do it to get behind but you can't handcuff the local providers and say you can't do it this way you can't do it that way the providers know how to do it and we should get out of their way and let them do it right the good providers of course that's exactly right let's take a quick call or somebody had some uh question about the homeless situation uh let's talk to Monique. Monique, you want to ask us a question? Go ahead. Hey, Dr. Drew. How's it going?

Hey, Robert. Hi, Leanne. Hi. How's it going? I am fascinated sitting here listening. I appreciate from the top to the bottom, from the bottom to the top, everybody getting involved.

Mental health issues that underserved, unsheltered people face on the streets. We need to get into the heart of it. My heart is beating out of my chest right now. But what I'm trying to convey is we need to have conversations. Because you're optimistic, I hope? I'm talking to Mr. Marber for the first time, I'm optimistic. I'm getting excited when I hear his

Yes, I am absolutely. Good. Yes, optimistic. Absolutely. Thank you very much, guys. I gotta go. Thank you. She wanted to say that we need to create, essentially, in her little blurb here, to me, she was saying she wants to create liaison with the homeless, which is true. We need to create trust and we have to have people that we need to create, essentially, in her little blurb here to me, she was saying she wants to create liaison with the homeless, which is true.

We need to create trust. Absolutely. We have to have people that know how to, this thing you talk about cracking the code, that's what you're talking about. And the communities that do it real well, you know, the one in San Antonio, we have this most amazing street-level worker, his name, Ron Brown. And he came from the streets, and he's been with Haven for Hope about 10 years. And you go to every agency that's doing well, everybody has a Ron Brown. Of course.

I call them, in my world, they're attic whisperers. Yeah, and these individuals go out. And by the way, all the missions downtown have those guys, too. I've met them. And what we have found around the country is that the new model that really works on the street is hot teams, where you take a master's degree general social worker or somebody highly trained in the world of homelessness. And mental health. And then you take a police officer who's CIT trained, crisis-informed treatment.

Right. And so they've gone through, they're in your world, not the law enforcement world. I listen. You know, the DEA has changed their whole way of doing things right more towards that kind of stuff and if you do and match those police officers with the social worker and you go out together the success rates off the charts have you asked how is it like with our hope teams how is that different it's very similar and where this actually comes from is domestic violence the crisis intervention

teams on the thursday night friday night saturday night where you see so much of the domestic violence that is alcohol driven it's not exactly the same but it's similar enough to learn that they've figured out have most police departments have figured out how to deal with that right because it's not a law enforcement issue yeah say it it there's a touch of law enforcement there's a whole lot of social work yeah there's a whole lot of dignity respect and caring right and that's how it works on the street and a lot of people uh on one side say oh we can't use this and another side we can't use that but it works right and you have to have uh police involved that are properly trained and then you have to have the social workers that are also properly trained. And I would say also that people go into social work to do this kind of work.

People typically don't go into law enforcement to do this kind of work. Right, of course. So it has to be a properly motivated, properly trained law enforcement. I mean, we've talked to plenty of LAPD and sheriffs that just said, whoa, when we first became a cop or on the beat, that this was not what we were having to deal with. I mean, having to be homeless social workers and drug addiction people and crisis management because people are trying to jump off overpass

because they're high on methadone or whatever it is. They're like, this was not what we were trained to do. And I have a son who just went through the police academy back in Texas. And some of his class would never want to do this and some this is their calling that's good and that's what you that's what you need and I will say you have like here you're you have a Hollywood department a homeless I don't know what their technical name is but they look like a homeless that they look feel and walk like a homeless outreach yeah and so it's led by this great detective and she really gets it and so any any law enforcement

spends time in the streets gets it yeah they it's it's not it's very obvious if you spend a little time there she's not what you would typically think is your average police she has a whole different and she's a cross between a social worker and a and a rabbi and priest and pastor and social worker and then a police officer all together and she's cracked the code and her unit has but she doesn't you don't you have to volunteer to get to this unit right you know then you got to have special treatment to get I need to go out with her or something let's do that yeah she's great um then you know the DEA has really modified it I was working working on it a little bit.

Are you going to get them involved with this too? Because I think their whole philosophy changed, and it's moving in this direction. And our view is we're looking at any asset that can we bring to the table to do it. At least locally here, they really want to be part of the solution. And it depends on who else, what other partners are offering. So we may get something from somebody somebody and we don't need that. So we're looking at the president is committed to addressing this issue.

And we will bring whatever assets we can to the table. Likewise, we need the other partners to do it. And we're optimistic. And if we can do it, we know we can be successful. Do you think this can be successful without having laws that will force these people into treatment, even though they're resistant? So Leanne and I are fearful.

Let's just frame the, she bringing up a thing that makes our stomach rumble, which is we have now laws where drug using are unabated. They don't even, the law enforcement doesn't even bother getting involved anymore because they give them a citation or a misdemeanor, they don't show up. The DA doesn't prosecute, so they don't even do it anymore. There's no consequences.

So, and the same thing on the trafficking and the stealing to use. All that is not prosecuted any longer. So our fear is that unless the laws are kind of modified the the leverage to get the addicts moving in the right direction is great and that that detective woman is great but if she can't convince somebody that is severely mentally ill to go and trust and not be paranoid to get the treatment there's nothing she can do legally and let me just say in this the la county went out with showers and tried to get ahold of people in showers took them on average 14 contacts to get one person into one shower and so there's nothing to move it along and just in the last well i think it's about three weeks ago it's it's a case called martin

versus boise which went all the way up we talked to the two lawyers and when they that's law of the land they made a decision now Now in, in my circuit. Yeah. That's the West coast. But over in the Southeast out of the Atlanta circuit, there's been a case for 30 years, almost 30 years, and it's called Pottinger versus Miami date. So it's been around a lot longer than this. And it's virtually the same ruling.

And we have figured out how to navigate that system and make it work. And, and just look at the Florida numbers versus California numbers. Ridiculous. And they both now have virtually the same case. One side's Martin versus Boise. The other is Miami versus Pottinger. Miami-Dade versus Pottinger. And this has actually been around much longer.

And so we have figured out how to navigate around that and work. So there's ways to do it. You have to, it can't be forced now. It has to be incentivized. And you can create incentives that work for large numbers. It won't work for 100%. No, no, we're not for progress. Something, movement.

And what we've found across Florida, because I've worked in about half the counties in Florida, not as my administration role in my prior life. And what we have found is about 70 percent will come in off the street if you set everything up and write it if you incentivize this and set it up right we have seen that over and over and over so what are the incentives they it's running with care and dignity you have to do it with dignity and respect it's a human level is Is there community or something? There's community on the inside, but there's also community on the outreach.

It's the Ron Browns. It's this detective in Hollywood. So it's systematic outreach. But you have highly organized, highly holistic system level, and it works. Yes. So systematic outreach. Yes. And it's not a one-off. It's not a haphazard thing.

It's a highly organized, and you have a highly organized place you go to, and you have to get everybody involved, and that is working. But in California, for the guy that's crazy and has his pants down, and he's pulled out a mattress, and he's laying in the middle of the street,

and he's resistant, resistant, resistant to no matter how much charm anybody can give him to go into treatment and we all know that he's mentally ill he's the crazy guy laying in the middle of the street and we do nothing what do we do for that person in in what i find across the country is is somewhere between 14 and 28 percent and i've seen it vary around the country is what we you know the new term is shelter-resistant. I used to say when it come in, when it come off the street. They're just resistant patients. And that's part of psychiatric illness.

But the good news, that means you have 80% or 75% or 85% to work with. It's true. I think you're going to find here you've got to, because we've been going so long, we're going to have a lot of resistance. And I agree. In the communities that have gone the longest without services and have the most resistance but let's put that up at the 30 let's let's add two percent i'd say 40 okay let's be generous okay let's do 40 that

still means 60 is is and let me ask you if if there was a 60 reduction here in los angeles county i consider and we started placing people in long-term permanent supportive housing, would that be a success? Yes. I would do cartwheels down the hill. And so my view is we have enough to say grace over. So we know how to work that 60%. Let's work that.

Now, that's not taking away, and this is really, I don't want to get in your your your expertise level but the laws of 5150 got a change in in in california have you talked to john morlock out here yeah twice try twice so so you gotta get those we need a conservatorships expanded and we need to expand the definition of gravely disabled yes and maybe some medicare what were we talking about oh the end the imd exclusion that's another thing and i'll make it even a little simpler than that we have people that are that are getting certified at it for 5150 in california and it's a for a 70 authorized for 72 hour hold

but the system mechanically only tolerates and has the ability to address maybe 20 to 23 hours. Right, and then they're back out. So, again, I go with low-hanging fruit in terms of systems we can get implementing fast. We got to get people that are already being certified, that everybody says needs a 72-hour hold. Let's make sure we do a 72-hour hold, not a 22-hour hold. Well, the reason they do that, first of all, their beds are at a premium. But the other reason they do it is the patient comes in and then says, I'm no longer suicidal.

Right, I'm fine. And then they'll ask him two more questions. Can you get food? There's a McDonald's across the street. Where are you going to live? In my tent at Echo Park. That's it. Can I just tell you, a week ago in West Hills, the West Hills Hospital where I live, a guy

checked himself out of the hospital just wearing a backwards blue thing, no underwear or anything, grabbed a shovel and started breaking windows on all the doors in the neighborhood because he checked himself out. And he's, you know, transient, mentally unstable guy, all over the news, all over local California

news. And my question to the people that let him out is is he better? he happier was that that that was human dignity that was i we got did you address the catalytic event no and then did it make the community better in 24 hours can you even do that in 72 hours no no so we are we agree though at least in this we call lantern and petra short act in this case needs to be addressed and that's the part that i've been very focused on, because to have families begging with help to bring their family members home, begging, they have resources, doctors, beds, food,

medicine, and the state of California tells them to take a hike every time. And I learned so much at your talk you did at the White House at the summit. And I wish everybody that's online somewhere i don't know exactly i don't know the least by heart i'm going to give a similar talk in sacramento yeah but but if if you if that talk will show you how we got there yes and how we got way out of balance it is no difference than how we got out of balance on the services here the parallel is it's scary when you did your talk i was like oh my gosh i've seen it in a different discipline but we did the same exact thing stupid mistake and

it's interesting i read an article from uh one of the medical journals that alzheimer's research also did it it's one of the few areas that there's no treatment right now that stops it there's no treatment that slows it down in the same and i read this article and it was about the mechanics of the research and how people were marginalized who actually now have the real idea and the real clue it is no different than what happened in the world on homeless and moving away from services and no difference than what you you went into that very elaborate how it changed in the 50s to the 60s. And to me, it's scary that we've – here's three areas that I know of.

I hope it's not happening in many other areas, I hope. Well, we make mistakes all the time in the names of certain priorities, right? But then let's fix them. We don't keep going down the course. Let's fix them. I don't think this can get – something's going to happen. I mean, you see everywhere now, everywhere you've driven that you just said earlier that there's just homeless everywhere every underpass every exit off an off-ramp every overpass when you're driving on a freeway they're in all of our towns where you never thought you'd see it before i there's only

going to be some i mean how much more growth can we have before something happens before something gives what you know is you know people are going to become vigilantes or people are going to be some, I mean, how much more growth can we have before something happens before something gives what, you know, is, you know, people are going to become vigilantes or people are going to start. I would say, I would say before you start thinking that way,

the troops are coming. The cavalry is on the way. That's how, that's what I feel today. I haven't felt very hopeful in California. I have not, but I've not, I've not had a Robert.

I don't care who makes the decision. Somebody do something now. And I feel like the, the cavalry is on its way. I really feel. And the president, the administration, Secretary Carson, worked all through the holidays on this, working with the mayor and working with the county supervisors.

And if that gets done, and we hope, you know, we have to, you got to have partners. And I hope we get there because if we do you will see some very quick improvements you don't solve it immediately but with improvements comes people saying wow that worked there let's keep let's move it two miles over let's go over here and you can get it what about the imd exclusion i i think what you the what you covered is just critical. And that's one of many.

I mean, we got, you know, and I think you got to move that way. You got to move to having a real 72-hour hold. Okay, so we're all in agreement that these are all things that we got to get underway. And there's a mix that you have to have. And because there's no silver, there's no one reason we got here. Right. You know, we've messed up a lot of things along the way but now we got to stop un-messing and we got to be real honest about it and not be but in canada

let's don't be politically correct because you're not going to solve it no yeah we got to start looking at the real issues and start you know i was reading something about your background and i i told dr drew i knew i liked you when i was reading this that you know when be a leader, you're not going to be popular all the way around. And we understand that, right? So you have to stand up and say certain things. But what I appreciated in one of the articles, you could correct me if I'm wrong, but you would say, please don't let them panhandle in your city. Please stop just giving these homeless people everything to make them comfortable on the street. That's what we're doing with this guy, Max on Valley Circle. I feel like we're just making it so comfortable because people, some people who feel like they're doing good and then others that

are just enabling him. We know that when it gets really cold, when it gets really rainy, they accept services for a couple of days. It's amazing what happens when they're not comfortable that they will go and search out things to make them more comfortable. And then when that goes away and it's sunny again, here they come back out, laying all their stuff out on the street. I'll just give you guys a comment on Facebook. This is Vape, who says, my mother has schizophrenia. She was long-term committed in a long-term facility for custodial care. An ACLU lawyer got her out, and now she's homeless.

Good work, everybody. Why is that lawyer held accountable? Right. I mean, they feel like they're doing that. If she dies, I want him accountable. But I feel like the ACLU, when it comes to these cases, they do one step, right? Well, they have their civil rights.

Because they're men's women, you can't tell them what to do. Do you think they don't have agency? Yeah, when you're in certain disease states, you don't have agency. That's a feature of the disease. Exactly. And we want to restore their agency. And it doesn't take much to restore agency of people with certain illnesses. And for people who are going to go online and watch what you you did when you were at the white house and

you're comparing sometimes you have a medical issue whether it's heart attack stroke or seizures you have no capacity of decision making we jump right in and the parallel when you said you know and if we they do your best to try to find your family, whatever, and if they don't, they still go in. You treat them, of course. In fact, if you don't, you're going to probably be in trouble. You're going to be in big trouble. It's unconscionable. And yet, if it's a psychiatric illness, magically, we don't treat it.

The brain is a medical organ, just like the heart is, like the lung is, or a knee joint. That's exactly right. And it doesn't, sometimes it can't work. And it affects things like agency and insight. And then we got to restore it. We got to help treat it. So it restores all that. Addiction is one of the conditions where it goes away. Schizophrenia, certain bipolar states. Look, these are, every other country on earth treats these things. Why can't we? It's just so silly. I not only look at that, people, you know, just in communities where you see people, a lot of times it's like, ah, I don't care if they're doing drugs as long as it doesn't affect me.

Well, it's affecting all of us now, right? Because they're all on the streets. You're passing by watching people smoke meth and doing heroin and shooting up as kids are walking by in their school buses. And it's just, it's insanity. You know what I mean? It's gotten to a dystopian, really weird situation. And I'm worried about the infectious disease problem too.

We had typhus outbreaks. We saw that in San Diego. More stuff's common. Because if you don't manage sanitation, you get infectious diseases. We have AFB, we have tuberculosis, non-tuberculosis, AFB, typhus. We've got norovirus. We've got

untreated excrement going to the ocean and killing the sea mammals. Whoa, we got an emergency here we got to deal with. But I know, speaking of emergencies, you got to go to another meeting. We're going to stick around and answer some phone calls, but I'm going to let you go. Thank you very much for having me on your show. I cannot.

Thank you, sir. I actually think this is going to have a big impact. I think people seeing you and understanding what you're up to and feeling optimistic about building community and outreaching and create liaisons, the word I kept, I used early on, I saw no one attempting it, but you're talking about creating liaison services that are effective and then maintaining that relationship. And we know it works in places. It's going to work for tens of thousands of people.

And I want to just close with something you were talking about. We need everybody to do this. We need mayors. We need governors. We need Congress. We need Leanne and your kids and your neighbor. We need everybody. We need the detective in Hollywood.

And we need the different agencies and the service providers. And if we all work together, we're going to get here. We may not agree on every little nuance or a little here and there, but I'm finding there's much more commonality around it if you can get past the PC stuff, to be real honest. That's sticking a lot of people up. And all I want to do is get people off the street forever. That's all I want to do.

That's all we all want to do. And if you're not doing that, you're contributing to their death. And off the street forever that's all i want to do that's all we all want to do and if you're not doing that you're contributing to their death and how can you justify that and the the death rates we're seeing a lot of cities a lot of counties having death rates you've never seen before and that's the old that's what if that metrics doesn't get you you know it's time to wake up these are fatal illnesses untreated and we're allowing them to go uncharted people are going to die and they're dying by the thousands. We've got to do something. Thank you. Robert Marvin, is there a website or anything for people to anywhere? Do they can support or be a part of this or look out for more? Yeah, look out for more. Secretary Carson's our leader on this part and we're helping on that. So go to hhs.gov. Yes,

you can find information there too. So hhsgov, and they'll send you right on over there. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Do you want to take a little break, Caleb? Take a little break, and then we'll come back with your calls. Okay, welcome back, everybody. I apologize. People have been on hold forever.

We had two very special guests today. The United States Interagency Council on Homelessness, of course, is headed up by Robert Marbutt, who is here with us, giving us hope that really the cavalry is underway. In Los Angeles, you can find help with homelessness at LAHSA, L-A-H-S-A dot org. You like LAHSA? Wait, Leanne, I don't hear her. There you are. Hello. I don't know. I just feel like without any laws to put any teeth into anything, I feel like millions of dollars are going to waste with LAHSA. I hear you. I understand. But again, let's stay positive the way he was. I think he's got a plan. I'm feeling hopeful for what he's doing.

Lhasa, not so much. Okay. Also, LA Homeless. I feel like a waste of money. Outreach portal available if you see someone. LA-pop.org. Tried that with our Max. I know.

Oh, we went out and talked to him three different, four different, five different times. All right. Let me get to the call. People are on hold for eternity, and I apologize for that. So, Julie, five different times. Alright, let me get to the call of people who are on hold for eternity and I apologize for that. So, Julie, here we go. Julie, what's going on? Hi, Dr. True, how are you? I just want to tell you it's

an honor to speak to you. I've watched you for years. Celebrity Rehab was probably the one show that was the most raw, accurate portrayal to the public about the severe addiction crisis we have in this country, and I still wish it was on the air. Well, thank you for that.

But here we are. We can try to keep pushing the messages out through shows like this. What's on your mind? You've been waiting a long time, and I'm so sorry. That's okay. Thank you. I was married, long-termterm marriage to a severe gambling addict severe multi-million dollar gambling addict who actually was a physician and um as he got older it got worse and i started to think after really looking at a lot of reading a lot educating myself going

to therapy myself that there's probably a lot of comorb lot, educating myself, going to therapy myself, that there's probably a lot of comorbid, severe mental health issues involved. Correct. And so I wanted to ask... There's different kinds of, different sort of flavors of gambling addiction. And some of them, yes, have very severe... What do you mean by comorbid? Coexistent, co-occurring.

I got it. But with gambling, it's sort of causational in some cases. But go ahead, tell me your question. are dealing with the fallout from this are not getting help and um it's sort of like a parasite that's becoming bigger than just the one person who has the addiction right what advice would you give to a family in order to deal with it so it doesn't get passed on generation after generation in addition to um helping the addict himself who really has been on and off, on and off, inpatient rehab treatment, and now, unfortunately, not in a good place again. Right. Is he doing anything else besides gambling?

Is there drugs involved, too? I do know that he does take medications for a heart condition. I don't know firsthand, but there are a lot of other codependent family members that have access to not only medications, but prescribing him medications. And so I can't speak with specificity to it, but my guess is that he is taking medication. He's not a drinker at all. No alcohol involved, but certainly years of prescription medication. Enablers? Enablers or really, like, these are obviously physicians because they're prescribing.

And there are lots of medication that can make gambling worse. For instance, sometimes gambling disorders can be associated with bipolar disorder. And somebody who's treating somebody who complains of depression with a gambling addiction can make them more manic and make their gambling worse they're anti-parkinsonian medication that can actually induce a gambling state so there's a lot of complexity in gambling and the gambling is it because of risk and just gambling again has different flavors some people like losing believe it or not they gamble until they lose they only feel alive unless they're losing there is deading gambling there is winning gambling and there's sort of a sociopathy criminal gambling well there's a second one you said uh deading they like they like to they just they just get

they're compulsive debtors yeah it's crazy and so it has many different, and mood disorders can factor into it. And so I really worry about anybody prescribing. And it's also very common for there to be addiction to substances alongside the gambling. And you, Julie, did exactly the right thing, which is you took care of yourself. And much like they say you've got to put the mask over your own mouth before you help a child, if the oxygen drops out of the airplane, same is true with addictive diseases. You have to have somebody in your corner.

You have to this disease will suck you in every time. Addictions of all type, behavioral or chemical addictions. So any family member who's not actively involved in a treatment process is a part of the problem. They can't help it. They're necessarily a part of the problem. So it is either going to alan on or or going to therapy with sound by the sounds of what's going on here a therapist would be the

right sort of thing to do for everybody and julie i mean seeing here that your husband it's like millions of dollars in debt from his gambling this was multi multi multi-million dollars his drug of choice was uh horse racing he is also a master master poker player and so the dopamine rush everything that dr drew talks about from a neuropsychiatric point of view is all in play with addictive family members who are physicians as well and it's a cocktail for crazy making and it had been so for quite a number of years. I've gone to, uh,

Gaminon. I saw help in, uh, many different, uh, psychological arenas. I finally, I have an amazing therapist,

um, in New York who actually, uh, deals very specifically with sociopathy, psychopathy. I suspect that all of this is intertwined with this. It sounds like it. It's dangerous, dangerous stuff.

Yeah, it sounds like it. Just the fact that you've stuck around this long, I don't know that I would be a saint like you. That's hard. But don't you get the feel that Julie is, she knows what she's dealing with, right? She's seeking the help. She's contained.

She's not sucked into it. I guarantee you a lot of women would not have stuck around for that. That's a lot of stuff going on. With money. I mean, when it deals with your money and losing your homes and losing your relationships with family. It's everything. This was everything with him. I protected myself to some degree however i will just say this to the public because i know that you reach a lot of people dr drew that um your discussions about um cluster b personality disorders and mood

disorders and anger management and all of that if anybody out there senses that there's anything that's going on that even hits a couple of the points that i made then i feel like i've been helpful but certainly in my family i can tell you that it takes a village and my main concern right now is it took me quite a long time um to really identify what's going on here because most gambling addicts are typically of higher intelligence than the average person um a lot of them are very charismatic and come across I call it wearing a mask of sanity and they do it for quite a long time until finally

that's more characterologically characterologically as you say cluster B access to characterologically driven components of people that are predisposed to gambling addiction but you know like every addiction too they won't get help until well because in their mind they're smarter than everybody else they won't get help until some, you know.

Well, because in their mind, they're smarter than everybody else. They don't need to. They've got it under control. It's really tough to get people into gambling care. And we're not even talking about him. We're just talking about all the... The addictive qualities. Well, no, we're just talking about

all the collateral damage and trying to help those people because he sounds like he'd be very, very tough to treat. Julie, I'm sorry you're dealing with all that, but I'm glad you're taking care of yourself. Thank you so much, Dr. Groom. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye.

And her telling the story, again, will help other people who hear this kind of stuff. Yeah, sure. Of course. Of course. He's not the deading type. He's the thrill type. Right. So there's different kinds of gambling addicts. Million dollars.

Yeah, and that's something. Catherine wants to talk about something. Catherine, what's something. Catherine wants to talk about something. Catherine, what's going on? Hi, thank you for taking my call, Dr. Drew. You bet. I really want to thank you for all that you do for people. My question is, we are having a numerous amount of unborn children being born to heroin, meth, etc. Is there anything that you can start doing to try to help us bring in some kind of law or act that would allow a loved one to have an adult addict committed if they're pregnant to protect the unborn?

Some states will do that. Some states, not with opiates so much, and by the way, an opiate addict should be put on methadone or suboxone. Babies then are born dependent on opiates, and they have almost no withdrawal. People wake way too much of that. The problem is taking heroin during your pregnancy makes the pregnancy end and gives pre-intrauterine birth retardation and preterm labor. But if you get on a long-acting libido or on Suboxone,

you can have a full term. The baby will be born addicted, go through a little diarrhea, and that'll be that. It's no big deal. Meth is destructive. Stimulants are destructive. I have a personal story. Let me just tell you, in some states,

they will arrest the mother for child abuse. Right. That's what I think. So go ahead. Well, I have a personal story that affected my grandson. My daughter was 23 years old, and we live in California. And I contacted Child Protective Services asking them to arrest her for child endangerment because she was an adult.

There was nothing I could do. Even though Laura's law is a law in California, it has to be enacted county by county. I know. So then nine months later, after I'm told they won't help me, they take my grandson and lie to deny me placement of him. So it's another horrible thing because CPS has been removing these children and denying bio family. It is a national crisis, Dr. Drew, and I want it to be heard. It needs to get out there.

There needs to be one in every state where a loved, concerned grandmother or mother or whomever could get this person committed or in order to do rehab. We have been begging for this. She lived in tent city. There was no way. Catherine, we've been begging for this in California, literally going up with politicians and begging. You can be part of it. Check in with John Morlock.

He'll take you up to Sacramento with him. What are you going to say? No, no, no. It just seems like isn't that you would think the best the best uh outcome for the child would be to be placement with a loving family member who wants the child yes i don't understand why that's a problem i mean do they think that that you're too close to the problem of the the daughter the son whoever's having the problem with the child in the first place that the child might be exposed back to that person maybe more of a systems thing like the they have liability if they don't put them within the system.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I know. Yeah. But a kid is only going to do better if he has a family member that wants that. I'm with you a hundred percent. Randy,

sorry about all the delay. What, what's going on, Randy? Hi, Dr. Drew. And it's a pleasure to be on.

I've watched you for a while as well. Thank you. So I've been listening to your show and unfortunately, a lot of my questions were answered. Oh, good. That's not unfortunate. That's a good thing. It's good.

But I say it in a pessimistic way because this is what's going on. I have a son that's severely addicted and he's had, you know, some traumatic things going on in his life we didn't know he was going down this road until it's really he's really so severely caught up we've been trying to get him treatment he's been to treatment but he is still i don't know he's just he's just so really in a desperate need i don't know, he's just really in a desperate need.

I don't know what to do. I've talked to the crisis response team, and they talk about the civil rights. They understand that he has a problem, but they said they can't touch him and take him anywhere because he hasn't committed a crime. It's like we're sitting here watching this kid die. Can't do anything about it. That's what you're doing. And that's the laws. You must be in California.

You're in Ohio. Wow. They've got that same problem there. We thought it was just California. Well, I'm from Ohio, but I'm in another state right now. Okay. Because that's where he is. He's in another state.

He's not in Ohio. He must be in California. You're trying to find him, right? You're trying to get him off the street? He's not on the street only because I am putting him in hotels. I'm putting him here. Just so he's not on the street. He doesn't

have insurance. What's his drug of choice? Methamphetamine. Meth is rough. It distorts their thinking so much. He needs to go Methamphetamine. Meth is rough, man. Yeah. Meth is rough. It distorts their thinking so much. He needs to go somewhere for a year at least, right? He needs to go have an extended stay. And I'm sure he's paranoid and suspicious of you and everybody else that he's normally close to.

But what do you do with somebody that doesn't have insurance, Drew? Well. How do we help those people? There are county-funded beds. Where is he exactly, do you do with somebody that doesn't have insurance, Drew? Well. How do we help those people? There are county-funded beds. Where is he exactly, do you know? Is he in California? Because I know the resources in California, but you've got to check with local. No, he's not in California.

He's in Oklahoma. Okay. So you've got to look for local resources that are most treatment centers will have some kind of either independently funded or county funded operations. At least some sort of help. It's hard to get them. But you have to check every day and you have to call and call and call. He's gone to the mental health, I don't mean to interrupt, he's gone to the mental health facility and said, you know, with a crisis, asked if he could be received.

And they told him as an outpatient. Right. So therefore, that doesn't work because he gets caught up in the meanwhile and won't go back. I know. I know. I understand. And this is... How long an outpatient?

What do they give him? 24 hours? 72 hours maybe? You know, an outpatient? How, what do they give him? 24 hours, 72 hours, maybe? No, an outpatient, he'd get like a month. Oh.

But it's three days a week or four, you know. It's not like he's, he just has to come in and out of the hospital and that's what he's saying. If he doesn't feel like it that day,

he just never goes back. Well, he won't if he's using, but it's, so this is the stuff that Leanne and I have been screaming about that there's no laws available.

to have a dad following him around to make sure that he gets him into a hotel room while he can't do anything for the addiction or get him into some kind of shit breaks my heart. The other way to go about this. Well, it's not even that because I can't follow him around because, as Dr. Drew alluded to, the paranoia and all that. Then, you know, he will turn on me. Like, I have caused or created, I don't know what's really going on in on me. I have created...

I don't know what's really going on in his mind. I know. But I mean, you're there and you've put him in a hotel room so he's not on the street. That's what I think most desperate parents want to do and try to do. Is there a world that you can get him arrested for using meth and get an enlightened judge to mandate treatment?

Can you find... I don't know how I should... I've done that a million times. Can you find... I don't know how I should... I've done that a million times. He doesn't do it around me. We've had him EOD'd two times in one weekend. What does that mean? They held him for 24 hours and let him go.

Yeah, I know. They did a video conference with the doctors over at the mental health place and they didn't accept them and you can't hold people against their will for doing drugs that's the crazy thing about our society um so you'd have to it breaks my heart i'm a combat veteran seen much tragedy on the battlefield and here I come back home and watching this slow process. It's horrible. Again,

if you can get in and go to the local police authorities and say, look, I've got an addicted son. What do you have? Can you arrest him? Can you mandate him? I've done this kind of thing a bunch of times where people get in various ways police can really be a part of the solution they

don't want to put him in jail and they don't want you him to die they want to help you uh and if they can do it or if they can have a judge that can mandate you know away send him away for a while for care i've done that and i and it has worked, but it's difficult to do. You have to really do some legwork. But you really got to start with law enforcement and see if they have any resources that they can help you with. Randy, I'm so sorry. It's a terribly frustrating problem,

and I wish we had better laws to help people get better. Brian, what's going on? Hey, how you doing, Drew? You live. You live, man. What's up? I talked to you about a month ago about my mom who was going through chemo, and I was asking you about chemo brain.

Yep. And? And, unfortunately, she passed a couple weeks ago, and we've gone through all that. Sorry about that. My question for you tonight, and it's kind of uncomfortable to talk about, but I was able to travel out and spend some time with her when she was in inpatient hospice. Okay.

And the hospice nurses told me when I arrived there that she was under a special contact order where the nurses' DNAs had to be downed and gloved and all that. Right, right. Because when they admitted her, they noticed some lesions on her vagina. And they suspected it was herpetic virus. And I was just wanting to know your thoughts on that if I don't think

you know my brother and I took good care of her and I don't suspect any abuse or anything like that but is it possible that her suppressed immune system over all of her chemo treatments brought out the condition

she may have been harboring over all the years. Absolutely. How old was she? 78. So a lot of people, particularly women, can harbor an infection, a herpetic infection, and never know they have it. And when the immune system gets suppressed like this, then that's when it comes out. And that's when it's infectious too. That's why they have to wear all the gowns and things. To protect themselves. And passing it to other people.

So, you know, maybe it was some handle, you know, you can get herpes viruses on your hands and things, and maybe something happened in, you know, when she was sick in the hospital and got transmitted that way. I doubt it. It's very unlikely. The more likely thing is she had it forever, never knew it, and no big deal. That's kind of what I figured.

When I showed up, I was supposed to go there and help her out after her infusion, and then the infusion was canceled, and when I showed up, she was in inpatient hospice, so I was a little bit off guard and shocked, and then that's the first thing they told me. Yeah. It's just... And that took a little bit for me to digest, but then the more I think about it,

it's probably more common than not, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Most people that have it don't know they do. The society makes a huge deal out of this skin rash and but it's it's a non thing for for people that have it typically so all right okay thanks so much glad you called uh sorry about mom though uh okay i gotta get quickly john you want to ask about the National Guard to assist with homeless issue. I have no objection to that, but it doesn't sound like it's going to happen. It sounds like Mr. Marbert has a more carrot-oriented plan.

Some kind of plan. That's what Leanne wanted. Leanne wanted the National Guard. I didn't object to it. It's not going to happen. I just want federal. I've never been one to say National Guard per se, but I just think something needs to happen where California is forced to do something.

We'll see. If they don't accept the help of the executive branch of the government, that would be very interesting. Then you'd be thinking about that. Typically, National Guard, when they're used as a state thing, the governor has to say, I want the National Guard to come in with wildfires and stuff like that. So it's interesting. Daniel, go ahead. Hey, good evening. Thanks for taking my

call. Love your show, all of it. And I wanted to ask, I saw you're turning the math finger. You have a great voice. The baritone is very unique. Sounded great. I was wondering, the show The Masked Singer borrows, it seems, imagery of Illuminati and Freemasonry. And I'm wondering, do you think TV shows and the media borrow the imagery because it's edgy? Or is there something more going on there? Well, I joined the Illuminati and the Freemasons to be on that show. I had to be indoctrinated into both.

You're giving away your secrets, Drew. No, I've been in those meetings where they come up with these logos and things. And believe me, there's a bunch of people sitting around a table going, oh, I like that. Oh, I like this. Oh, look at that. Put that on here. So, yeah, that's all they do.

Leanne, thank you for being with us today. It was fun. It's been, I miss you. It's like getting the band back together. I know. We spent just about our usual timeframe here too. Isn't that crazy?

Yeah. Next show live will be January 26th. That when we do the, the live call in show that we're doing, be sure to sign up at drdrew.tv. You'll get a message when we're streaming. Also, we're going to do some daily doses,

but we probably won't. I'm going to Sacramento to give a talk because I was telling Leanne so we probably won't do a daily dose until Wednesday or Thursday. Susan?

When you come back. Yeah. Yeah. Which? Wednesday? She just said yeah. Wednesday? Wednesday night if you can.

You don't know when you'll be back from your... I'll be back Tuesday. Oh, that thing. Yeah. Okay. Am I allowed to say it? I'm doing something for MTV

can I tell them no it's too funny off the air yeah again you can sign up with your email but best option

is sign up with your phone number because those alerts are quick and easy and no worries about spam because we are only alerting to let you know

when we are taking calls I did it and subscribe to the podcast at Ask Dr. Drew is now available as a podcast make sure you subscribe to all the podcasts iTunes iTunes, Spotify, everywhere else, and go to drdrew.com.

And I'm going to try to get some email stuff here. So do text your questions to 984-2-DR-DREW, as well as drdrew.com slash contact. We've got to get the emails there. And the links to me and Adam and After Dark and Dr. Drew podcast and all that stuff is there. is there i want to do a podcast with you and adam again like i used to call him loveline nowadays like with adam i would love to pick his brain you guys would find a lot of common ground i suspect and not only our racing stuff but yeah oh he's got did you see this you saw the shelby oh yeah of course yeah and he's got a new one about a guy named... The African-American driver?

Yes, called Uppity. Indy car driver? Yes, the only... And he was a great driver. I haven't seen it yet. He is one of the nicest men I've ever met. Oh, I'm blanking on his name. Willie T. Ribb.

Willie. And I just am excited for him that that show gets out there because I think that one's going to resonate with people. But yeah, I'll get you on Emma, Dr. Drew. We'll figure that out. And for everybody else, we thank you for being here. Thank you for your calls. And we'll see you next time.

Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. Today's call screener is Lindsay K. Floyd. Thanks for subscribing to the podcast. If you have a question, go to drdrew.tv, that is D-R-D-R-E-W.tv and sign up to receive an alert next time I am taking calls. No spam, just quick alerts when I'm streaming live. Also, you can text your question to me right now at 984-237-3739. And I'll see if I can help you out on one of our future shows. Check out our other podcast and watch the full-length HD video versions anytime at drdrew.com.

This is just a reminder that the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care or medical evaluation. This is purely for educational and entertainment purposes. I am a licensed physician with over 35 years of experience,

but this is not a replacement for your personal physician, nor is it medical care. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255, anytime, 24-7, for free support and guidance. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at drdrew.com.