Ask Dr. Drew - Big Tech vs. Free Speech: Dr. Kelly Victory and Steve Kirsch - Ask Dr. Drew - Episode 41

Episode Date: July 20, 2021

Dr. Drew speaks with Dr. Kelly Victory and Steve Kirsch about medical censorship on big tech platforms, and the stifling of free discussion about COVID-19, vaccines, health, and more. [Originally broadcast on July 14, 2021] This episode of Ask Dr. Drew is dedicated to YOUR questions! Join the show on Clubhouse @DrDrew to ask Dr. Drew anything - questions about COVID-19, vaccines, addiction, relationships, health, current events... or anything you want to discuss! Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation ( https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/FirstLadyOfLove). THE SHOW: For over 30 years, Dr. Drew Pinsky has taken calls from all corners of the globe, answering thousands of questions from teens and young adults. To millions, he is a beacon of truth, integrity, fairness, and common sense. Now, after decades of hosting Loveline and multiple hit TV shows – including Celebrity Rehab, Teen Mom OG, Lifechangers, and more – Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio in California. On Ask Dr. Drew, no question is too extreme or embarrassing because the Dr. has heard it all. Don’t hold in your deepest, darkest questions any longer. Ask Dr. Drew and get real answers today. This show is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. All information exchanged during participation in this program, including interactions with DrDrew.com and any affiliated websites, are intended for educational and/or entertainment purposes only. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome, everyone. Susan, you want to make an announcement? Welcome, everyone. We're here. There we are, and we appreciate it. In the name of the slight bit of rebellion we're expressing today, I'm not wearing a coat. It's also 100 degrees out here, so it's quite hot, and I was dying. I went running before we started this. But let's get right to it and talk to you a little bit about

the condition we're in today and why we found ourselves there. I blame one Kelly Victory, who I'm going to bring up to the podium on now. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this way. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f**k's sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals.

Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it. I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. Kelly, you're always causing trouble for me.

Well, God only knows, Drew, we did enough shows together that were immediately censored as soon as you posted them. My name became a pariah in and of itself. And that's really why I joined, as you know, this class action lawsuit as a co-plaintiff with Trump against big tech. The level of censorship that we have reached in this country is absolutely alarming. People should be very frightened about it. We could talk about exactly what it means. But suffice to say, we did this show, what, on Sunday afternoon about censorship, but the show was censored. It's the ultimate irony. It's irony on irony. You can't make this stuff up. And I'm a little confused because you and I were pretty gentle in the conversation we had. I thought, I thought that when my sort of anxiety raised was when Susan used the name of medication explicitly and you and I were kind of tiptoeing

around it. Yeah, it was my fault. And when former president's name came up, those were two things I thought, oh, that's going to, I bet that's going to trigger something. Uh lo and behold, it did. So we're in the doghouse again. Well, if you consider it being a reason of medical misinformation, which is the reason they gave us, but it's okay to have a lawsuit against YouTube and you wouldn't get censored. Like, is that, I'm just kind of curious, like we did a show about a lawsuit against YouTube. So Susan's being subtly ironic. Her question is, what if we hadn't mentioned anything medical and we only talked about the lawsuit? Would they be cool with that?

Or is that really the problem? Well, who knows? The bottom line is you shouldn't have to parse this. You shouldn't have to worry about it. The reality is that the reason we have a First Amendment is not to protect, you know, speech or to protect opinions that you agree with. It's to protect the speech that you disagree with. That's why we have a First Amendment. that I am so adamant about having joined this case. Although I was censored primarily, Drew, as you know, over things that I have said over the past 18 months with regard to the pandemic and specifically the public health response, the reality is this case isn't about Dr. Kelly Victory's right to speak. This isn't about my First Amendment right. In my mind, it's about the right of all Americans to hear, to have access to information, to be able to participate in these sorts of

dialogues, whether you agree or disagree. As I've said from the beginning, if you want to argue with me about how I've interpreted a study or my assessment of the data or the risk or my, you know, how I've calculated the numbers. Let's have that debate. We should be having that robust debate. Not only that, Kelly, but we have disagreed, if not completely, at least subtly, all the way down the line. And that's what I enjoyed. I enjoyed about us having different opinions and being able to sort of sharpen my own and listen to yours and letting people see how medicine is done, how doctors talk to each other. We throw ideas back and forth. And how that becomes medical information is bewildering to me. I don't understand. Well, it's not only necessary,

you know, it's really that's how we get to the best decisions in medicine. I was the chief medical officer of a number of Fortune 100 companies over the years. And I always had a plaque on my desk that when people, the first thing people saw when they walked in and it said, argue with me. And I would tell people, tell me why this is the dumbest idea I've ever come up with. Tell me why this is really a bad plan. Tell me why this isn't going to work. Argue with me.

Tell me, because that's how we will come to the best conclusion. And you know, having practiced medicine as long as you have, that frequently it's in those discussions in the hallway, on the elevator. Oh, my goodness. I miss all that. And by the way, that wasn't happening during the pandemic very much, which is to the detriment of medicine. That really is a problem. Exactly. It's your colleague saying, do you?

Did you consider this or what about that? Or why did you do it? It's pushing it. That's how you come to the best decision. So when anyone, whether it's, you know, the hospital chief administrator or the CEO of the company or, God forbid, the federal government or big tech start saying, no, we can't have that conversation. People can't have access to that dialogue. We won't let them even hear those things. That's very scary. And, and Susan, you said something before the mics heated up today, you know, cause she's the one that produced in books and she was a fan of yours way back before we even had a relationship you and I and before I knew you were married to my friend from medical school Susan goes there's

this woman on KBC I you got to talk to her I want her on and and now and to explain what you meant when what you said before the mics heated up I see you leaning in go ahead before they heated up before the mic set up you said I'm tired tired of just people that don't stir things up. It's not interesting. No, I said, I'm tired of booking boring guests. Right. And it's like because I have to tiptoe around YouTube. Because we can't talk about anything, and we have to be careful, and we have to not use your full name and the heading.

And it's like we're hiding from the CCP. It's like the weirdest thing. No, and honestly, it's an astute observation, Susan, because really that is largely why we have ended up in the debacle that we are in with this pandemic, because so many physicians, so many of my colleagues fell prey to that. They just kind of danced around the edges and they wouldn't push back. They didn't say what they knew to be true. Everything from, unfortunately, people, masks really don't do much to stop the spread of respiratory viruses. Or, hey, there are these drugs out there, hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, zinc, quercetin, vitamin D, that are critically important to stopping this disease in its tracks.

People wouldn't say that. And they did it to their detriment. And that's how we've ended up losing so much control and being in the pickle that we are in right now. Because physicians largely refuse to speak up and state the truth. And that's a tragedy. You said that during the last time we interviewed, and I thought maybe that's what they considered medical misinformation of some type. I don't know. You didn't really make any claims. You just talked in generalities about this, how pathetic it is that people weren't allowed to look at these things or talk about these things. And how is that medical misinformation? I don't quite get it. And have you seen the data?

By the way, there's more data that's come out recently on molnudivir. I'm saying that right? The HIV medicine that they're going to be using early in COVID. Molnudivir? Yes. And they're using, there were a lot of these drugs, Drew, a number of antiviral medications that are being repurposed. Yes. And I think with good with with good sense here with this pandemic. Likewise, we had reason to believe. Fauci and the NIH were clearly aware that chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine would likely be very effective against COVID since they were effective against the first COVID, SARS-CoV-1,

back in 2003. They knew that, but they suppressed that information. And any of us, including myself, who dared to even talk about it, think about, hey, maybe we ought to be trying this and did try it. We were lambasted, derided, ridiculed, couldn't call it, you know, conspiracy theorists and kicked off of pretty much every social media platform. And I think much to the detriment of the of certainly not only the American people, but people around the globe. I think that many, many people died unnecessarily because of the suppression of information about a number of different drugs. Well, let me bring up someone who's been in this position with us, Steve Kirsch, who has had his hand up for quite some time here.

I just sent Steve a couple more emails, so I hope you'll get those. And Steve has experienced many of these same frustrations. Let me see if I can get this up here. Steve, you're up here with Dr. Kelly Victory and myself. Do I have you? I'm pushing the button. I have this problem with Clubhouse where I, there we go. Hi, Steve. Hello. Sorry. I was on a call. Ah, okay. No problem. So I don't know if you heard our frustration, but they're not different than yours. You have been silenced and I'm just curious, can you talk to us before we get any conversation about treatments and that sort of thing?

What's the level of suppression that you have been under? I can't talk about the vaccine at all. My company doesn't want me to talk about the vaccine because it would damage the company if I were to expose a view that talked about the safety of the current vaccine. And this is what your board of directors has asked you or CEO? Correct. And it makes, and I agree with that because it makes sense because if it impacts the business that if one customer says, well, I don't like your CEO's position on the vaccine, I'm not going to do business with you. Yes. So this is not the government. This is how the private sector gets wrapped into this. Let's,

it's hysteria. It's what it is. It's hysteria. It's hysteria. I'm telling you, we have become histrionic in this country and we are so prone to hysteria because of it. And as a result, you don't have to look far to find somebody that's going to step on your opinion. Right. Well, you remember, you know, Drew, that it's the combination of ignorance and fear equals control. That's all you need to keep control is ignorance plus fear. And you make people ignorant by censoring what they have access to, and you make them fearful by controlling the narrative. And that equals control. And that's where we are. And Steve, have you given any thought? Last I spoke to you, I think live, you were saying that you thought they were messing with your emails. My question

is, A, is that true? And B, have you thought about what we should all be doing? I mean, what is the response to all this? So, yeah, I had, I was trying to email my contact list. So I set up an account at SendGrid and I got off one email to people. And then my second email was, hey, there's a successful clinical trial on fluvoxamine, you know, and here are the results. And that email was censored and they canceled my account, deleted all my contacts, deleted my unsubscribed list uh, basically, you know, did all of that without even sending me an email saying that they were doing it. So I had to find out after the fact, uh, that they did it. And then, and then they disabled all the links in the emails that I sent out so that they wouldn't work. Right. Wow. Nice. Right. Private, private private email service i'm just emailing my own contacts

and that got censored by sendgrid is that the same phenomenon you think you were experiencing in your own company would you sort of characterize it in the same thing no it's different because the company did it because so so the thing is that all this stuff is fairly complicated in terms of really understanding the safety profile of vaccines. And so unless, you know, and even for people who are in the medical field, right, none of them go into the VAERS database and analyze what's going on there. I haven't seen a single person do that. I think it's mostly because we don't consider it real data, for lack of a better way of describing it.

I think it is real data because it's relied upon by the FDA and the CDC, and it is the primary data source. So anybody who tells you it's not real data is incorrect. It is the primary data source. There is nothing more primary than the VAERS database for people who are not in the Medicare system. So there's a CMS database that covers those people. But the VAERS database is the primary data source. And so if you go into vSafe and you report an adverse event, which I have done, then you will get a phone call from a contractor. And the contractor will tell you about the VAERS system and encourage you to report into the VAERS system. And the other thing is that the VAERS system is not optional for doctors. I always thought it was.

But I went onto the CDC webpage, and it says it is not optional. If you are a doctor and your patient has a significant adverse event, it is not optional for you to not report into the VAERS system. And in fact, about 82% of the entries in VAERS are done by physicians. And let's be fair, not everyone getting the vaccine either was, of course, not administered by a physician, but necessarily has a physician who saw some of the adverse events. For instance, I was administered by a pharmacist. I had an adverse event. No one saw it. Well, and if you look at the study that Harvard did on it, I mean, they rightly saw it. And believe me, Steve, I agree. The VAERS data is very, very real. The problem with it, if there's a significant problem, is that it's a tiny subset of the actual adverse events

the harvard study you know estimates that it bears capture somewhere between one and ten percent of all of the actual adverse events and i can't tell you how many of my own colleagues have failed to or refused to report things as an adverse event because they're saying yeah the patient had shing got a shingles outbreak after the uh after the shot that's not an adverse event because they're saying, yeah, the patient had got a shingles outbreak after the shot. That's not an adverse event. Well, it's not until you realize the number of people who are having shingles outbreaks following two of these vaccines. Yes, and shingles is something that the FDA knows is caused by the vaccine, sort of the re-triggering of shingles. That was reported in the original adverse events during the clinical trials? Because I would wonder, you know,

anytime somebody comes into a medical environment, they have risk of shingles. Anytime they're stressed, they have risk of shingles. Anytime they're stressed, they have risk of shingles. I mean, it's a lot of stuff than just mRNA floating around your system. Correct. Yeah. You know, I think the shingles, I mean, I can look at actually what the data is, if you give me. I can tell you just, you know, looking at what I'm looking at, though, Drew, I can just say that clearly there are lots and lots of cases of it, a disproportionate number compared to the average outbreaks in shingles. But many, many physicians, I'm just talking about the underreporting in VAERS, my own colleagues saying, of course, I didn't report that to VAERS. Why would I? That wasn't a vaccine event.

I get it. Yeah, actually it is. I would have a high threshold for reporting something to VAERS. Why would I? That wasn't a vaccine event. I get it. I would be, I would have a high threshold for reporting something to VAERS. I really would. The fact that my little black eye didn't turn into anything is why I didn't do it. Right. Yeah. I mean, you're not, you're not supposed to, and then the whole, that's the whole idea. But clearly, you know, when you look at the statistics, 90% of the physicians are not following the rules where the rules say report everything, you know, in the 30 days that might be connected. But the shingles numbers are, in fact, off the charts for this particular vaccine. That's interesting.

I cannot even, Kelly, I don't know if you can come up with something. I cannot even come up with a mechanism other than some immune alteration. Well, exactly. It's an immune issue. And just for everybody who's listening here, no one is suggesting that the mRNA COVID vaccines, quote, cause shingles. Shingles is a reactivation of the chickenpox virus. If you've ever had chickenpox, that virus lays dormant in your spinal cord and can come back, rear its ugly head in the future as a shingles outbreak. But there is something clearly about receiving these vaccines that suppresses the immune system for a period of time such that that chickenpox virus does, in fact, come back out and you end up with a shingles outbreak. So there's clearly a connection there. And I think that, as Steve said, the data are overwhelming. Steve, I want to go back to my question. Let's not talk about the

vaccine. Let's not talk about treatment just yet. But what should we be doing in response to all the suppression? I mean, I feel like you've been subjected to it on a corporate level. We're subjected to it by a private organization that is a publishing organization that claims not to be, that is making deals and taking money from the government and then following the government's direction on how to set the standards for medical information, not doctors, government. What should we be doing? Well, I think that the new public square are platforms like YouTube and Facebook and Twitter and other platforms like that. And so those are replacing the public square.

And so the point is that I think that the government should regulate any of these public squares that have over 100 million users. And because the problem is that I think that the government should regulate any of these public squares that have over 100 million users. Because the problem is that you can go on to an alternate platform, but there's a network effect. So that people have gone on to these other platforms, and they set up their account there. And the number of followers that they have on the alternate platform is like two orders of magnitude lower than on the platform that they were on. So it's hard for anybody to migrate. Plus Google slash YouTube controls the search engines. Correct.

So you're really, if you're off YouTube, what you're searching for gets screwed up, too, if people look for you. Well, and the point point I made this point when we did the show that's now been censored with this show and censorship that was censored. And I made this with regard to being a co-plaintiff in this lawsuit with Trump is that if you put the shoe on the other foot or you turn the tables and said if somebody went, for example, if conservatives, for example, were controlling all of social media and somebody went and they Googled unwanted pregnancy, for example, and the only things that popped up was information about adoption agencies. There have been situations like that.

I remember stories like that. No one would tolerate that. No, no, that was outrageous. That was and everyone agreed it was outrageous. Yeah. Regardless of how Dr. Kelly victory feels about terminating a pregnancy or abortion, no one would tolerate that. You only saw that side of it. If you went and Googled gender dysphoria and the only information that popped up in the, in the first three pages of the Google search was how to get psychiatric help for your problem. No one would tolerate that. So why are we tolerating it when

people are desperate for information in the middle of a global pandemic? Why are we tolerating it that people can't have access to all of the information, not just a distilled subset of the information that some powers that be have decided that you can actually have. It's wrong, it's dangerous, and it flies afoul of everything we hold dear in this country. I agree. So the answer to your question as to why people aren't outraged is because they don't know that what is being talked about is actually correct. And they don't know that because to educate them on that this is factual and is actually plausible and so forth, requires them to basically disbelieve the trusted sources. And people are very unwilling to do that. Well, and this, you know, you need look no further than Galileo to know that

that sort of extreme or new or what seems like outlying opinions get, A, squashed very easily, and B, can be right. That's the other thing. That's why I like hearing these things because I'm always astonished sometimes that I can be wrong or my opinions are wrong or that the status quo is wrong. You have to have the outliers sort of on the fringes questioning things to get to the truth. And while this may not be a mainstream opinion Kelly's espousing, it is certainly a viable opinion. It's certainly one that other people hold.

Let's face it, Drew, I was one of the first people. I came out very, very early after I had access to the genomic sequencing um for covid19 i came out early last year uh third week of february i think it was and said it is looking to me like this virus actually was manipulated was laboratory manipulated these are not naturally occurring sequences and it looks very concerning to me and i suspect that this actually was manipulated in a laboratory now thank god absolutely that was that was heresy that was that was i mean absolutely yes heresy i was tarred and feathered and frankly considered i had things written about me that i

can't even repeat on this show in newspapers and said all over the place about what an absolute whack job i was now 18 months later turns out people you know that that pretty much there's nobody who doesn't accept now that this was created or manipulated at least possibly you know at least possibly open to the possibility and and again so it's weird so the good news is we can say that stuff out loud now and we couldn't even say it out loud back when you were saying it. I dare not say it. What has changed that has given us that ability to do so? And are there other ways to push things forward so conversations can be more broad and open? The only reason that you now can dare say it is because, unfortunately,

the cat's out of the bag because Anthony Fauci's emails got exposed. And so, therefore, there's not very, they can't get the genie back in the bottle. It's out. And unfortunately, we can't wait for that kind of a thing to happen with every single one of these issues. We can't wait for the truth to finally necessarily come out in, you know, large randomized control studies on ivermectin. Okay. Half of medicine has been practiced by people coming up with creative ways and trying things as long as they don't create harm. As long as they are not harmful. That's what we've always done. Of course. Exactly. So the fact that, unfortunately, think about how differently things might have played out had I not been silenced, had things not been shut down, had people actually been able to access

these medications, had pharmacists not overruled the prescriptions that were written by licensed physicians like myself. So there's another sort of overlay on being able to have a medical conversation. And this might be sort of the way I'm constructing this, and I'm not quite sure I'm going to say it, so we'll see how it comes out of my mouth. And whether I construct this properly or not, please correct me. But what we do with that and its impact on free discourse is kind of a challenging question. So there is a large percentage of our country that believes that, for instance, Kelly, by signing up with a suit that includes as one of

the plaintiffs, the former president of the United States, you are moving further towards bringing a dictator to power. And or is a similar kind of a feeling out there, which is that anybody that wants to talk about anything other than the status quo opinions, the bureaucratic ossified opinions, you are stirring up a constituency not to take a vaccine and a constituency that wants to undo a democracy, really wants to destroy the basic fabric of democracy. Now, I don't believe either of those things, but I've talked to lots of people that believe that. Am I right, A? And B, what do we do about it? Well, all I can say with regard to this case is this lawsuit is I am sticking to what it's actually about, which is a defense of the First Amendment. Well, you and I, I believe that about you.

You and I want to have medical discourse. That's all we want to be able to do without being silent. It's weird for us. People can't appreciate, you know and I know, but the average person who's not a physician does not appreciate how effing crazy it is that we can't have a conversation in the hall or on streams or anywhere about anything as it pertains to medical topics. That's a level of insanity neither of us expected in our careers. But here we are. No, I understand that. I think people need to consider that right now they are silencing me and to a lesser

extent you with regard to talking about things medical specifically related to COVID-19. But what's the next thing that they're going to silence? And who's the next person they're going to silence? And if you don't think it can happen to you, you're wrong, whoever you are, because it can and it will. It doesn't matter what they decide next. You can't talk about maybe it's school choice. Maybe that's going to be the big bad thing. Maybe it's guns. Maybe it's I don't know what. But if you don't think it can happen to you, and this is why I think that as polarizing as he can be, the former president made the very good point, which is if they can do it to someone as big as he is, to someone as powerful as he is, then they can do it to anyone. And the role that I think I play in this suit as a co-plaintiff really is that I am the common man. I'm just a doctor. I don't have, you know, I didn't have some big show before this. I don't have some, you know, big, I'm not a

politician. I'm not running for office. I don't want to be in office. Okay. I'm a doctor. I'm a pandemic specialist with a background in mass casualty. Okay. This is, if they can do it to the president, they can do it to me. They can do it and they will do it to you too. Whoever you are, when they come up with the next thing that they've decided isn't cool to talk about. That's the craziness is that everyone I have spoken to that has been silenced, literally everyone, has exceptional credentials.

Steve, you're in that camp, too. I mean, you have different credentials than those of us that are clinical, but it's not as though it's a ragtag group of people that are being silenced. Let me let Steve go ahead. Yeah, there's, you know, if you look at history, there has never been a case where censorship has ended up being the right thing to do. Right. And so I defy you to come up with, you know over 100 million users, that Congress should institute special rules for them. by some agency so that it is fair to people and allows people, you know, who are medically qualified to talk about pretty much anything. You know, if you're a doctor, you ought to be able to not be silenced. And whether people want to believe you or not, I mean, look, you've got a medical degree. How could you not be allowed to talk? And the other thing, it would be a private

right of action, you know, where you can recover $50,000 for any time you were, you were censored. And that will go a long way, uh, to having these, um, these big social networks. Um, you know, when they, when they hit the censor button, if that cost them $50,000 each time, they might think twice about that. Yeah. Right. Well, and to be clear, just so again, so that Drew, everybody who's listening to this understands the argument that we're hearing constantly about the lawsuit is that, quote, these are private companies, you know, YouTube, Google, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. These are these are private companies, and therefore they can choose, you know, read your terms of service. The argument, the can't farm that job out to a

third party. They can't farm the job of censoring Kelly Victory out to Facebook and say, we can't censor Jeff Zuckerberg, but we'll give you, you know, favorable tax benefits if you shut down anybody who is talking about the lab leak theory. will you know that kind of thing and that's is incidentally essentially what it appears has happened they have colluded with uh the federal government dr fauci's own emails show that that he was having conversations with how to suppress certain conversations and narratives so once these companies become the long arm of the federal government, they no longer have the protection of a, quote, private company. It's the government advising the private sector and taking money both at the same time.

Yeah. And it's a subject of legal debate here. Right. So Katie Sullivan, I think Kelly probably knows Katie. And, you know, and Katie and I have talked about this. And, you know, the thing is that, are you an agent of the federal government or not? Right. And so when Mark Zuckerberg sends an email to Tony Fauci saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll censor anything you guys want. Right. Right. That's kind of pretty incriminating, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. You no longer have 230 protection as a private company. And that's exactly the basis of really of the suit. The thing that kind of astonishes me right now or disappoints me, disappoints me, a lot of things disappoint me about what's going on. But this one thing I've been thinking about recently, which is that when there were the excesses of silencing people during the 1950s, there was a lot of artistic material produced in response to that. I mean, Arthur Miller wrote The Crucible. Music evolved in response to it as a rebellion against

it. There was a clear artistic, I don't want to say, it wasn't really, some of it was rebellion, but a reflection, a look, a hard look. I mean, I thought The Crucible was just a brilliant idea, which is hey it's witch trials guys you're in witch trials and we're in them again and yet no artistic community where are the comedians where are the playwrights where are the musicians creating some sort of a mirror artistic mirror which is what their job is for us to take a good look at these things. You know, do you guys feel that way? Am I, is that just me? Well, unfortunately I could speak. I think it's gone down to sort of this very base level of unsophisticated TikTok videos, uh, tragically, because your average individual can't, uh, punctuate a sentence, let alone write a play.

Um, so it's, it's unfortunate, but I think the only place you're seeing it is in places like, you know, TikTok videos and memes that people are creating to put on Twitter. You know, you're right. And it actually makes me feel better, though, to think about at least there's somewhere I kind of admire some of the stuff that's going on on TikTok. It's kind of, some of it's quite creative, but you're right. That maybe is the pushback. You're talking to a TikTok addict. Yeah, a little bit. I got addicted to it when I was sick with COVID. It's all I could tolerate. It was staring at my screen. I was so neurologically out of it. By the way, Ori from Locals is here and she's raising her hand. All right. I just signed her up. She said, let me. All right. Ori wants to

speak. Let's bring Ori up. How many, what's the maximum number of people I can have on the, she doesn't have her hand up anymore. Ori, put your hand up again if that's what you wanted. I think that she said she put her hand up. I see her. Invite to speak. There we go. Let's see if Ori wants to join the conversation. She's new to it, so it might take a second.

Hi, Ori. We have to take a little break in a second. But Ori, welcome to Clubhouse. You wanted to tell us something? Sure. No, I just wanted to be included in the conversation, obviously, as it relates to censorship, Locals is the new tech platform, and there are lots of new tech platforms that are working to combat this. And it continues to

blow my mind that you can go to four years of college, four years of medical school, anywhere between four and six years of residency, have 10 years of experience as a physician, and someone who doesn't have an MD is going to tell you what you can and can't say. Right. Believe me, it is insanity. All right. It is crazy. You've got some nameless, faceless fact checker. We aren't even allowed to know who they are. So they know me and all my credentials, but I don't know them. Well, this notion of a fact in science is really something that's non-existent. Science is based on the information that we have at the time and how many times have you experienced as a physician that what was once true is now updated to uh to be something else so let me let me point out that the concept of fact checkers is they're not even checking things

that are facts they're checking things that we know are going to evolve and know we're going to change so it's a misnomer from the start that that is a really interesting point i hadn't thought of that the idea of a fact checker in science can only be checking whether or not the interpretation of someone's theoretical conclusions are accurate to those conclusions. You can't check a fact in science because there are no facts, literally no facts in science. This is what people don't understand. It's all probability. It's all hypothesis that is subjected to experimentation. If that's reproducible many times, it becomes a theory.

And those theories always change. And if I might point out, Ori, although she's representing Locals today, and you're all welcome over at Locals.com, Ori. Is it drdrew.locals.com? Yes. Yes, there it is. Yep. Ori is a biomedical engineer, and she's had formal scientific training. And so this is something you get very vividly. Oh, and may I just add, YouTube has not updated its rules since May of 2020.

So they still have the rules that you can't talk about, whether it came out of the lab, vaccines are bad for you. You know, everything that we've learned is still in the 2020 May registry. They haven't updated anything so our medical misinformation is based on what we knew in may of 2020 sorry exactly and let me add one more level of complexity to this um once you've been censored as I have been so many times from these different platforms, that by itself becomes a quote fact that that becomes it. So when the fact checkers check it, that becomes the fact that I've been censored is de facto proof that I am, you know, insert a quack, you know, a nut job, right wing extremists, you know, a Q q anon member whatever it's supposed to be because and so there's a defamation component to being censored because people use the fact that

you were taken down from youtube for example and they say see dr drew spreads medical misinformation see it's right here on youtube does is katie comes a fact. Is Katie going after that piece of the story as well? Absolutely. That's very interesting. Because I brought it to their attention. I sent screenshots of multiple, multiple times on Twitter, for example, where somebody will say something about me and then they'll say, oh, well, she was censored by YouTube or she's since been censored by Facebook. And so that takes on a life of its own. That is a de facto evidence, therefore, that you are spreading misinformation or shouldn't. You are a non-credible individual. And last time I talked to you, you were running off to an emergency room to do a shift.

Is that still happening? Yes, I see patients regularly. I still consult frequently with large companies about pandemic planning and response. I'm involved in big disaster management. So it's an area. And I was the chief medical officer at Continental Airlines during the SARS outbreak. We met a woman in Greece who was the senior VP. That was during the whole United merger, right? Around that time? It was before that.

It was 2003. We met a woman who was the senior VP at Continental at the time. I'm going to think of her name while we're on. You'll probably have known her. Yeah, it was a big deal because Continental had a huge, huge footprint in Asia and in Micronesia. And that's where the largest outbreaks were happening. So, you know, I know quite a bit about it. And I was the chief medical officer at Scott's Miracle-Gro during the swine flu outbreak and the avian flu scare. And it's been sort of over and over again. So I have some background and this doesn't

mean I'm the world's expert, but I certainly have a premise from which to speak. You know, I'm looking right now, New England Journal just came out and the study on Bamlanivimab plus etesivimab just came out from mild to moderate, not just moderate. Lower incidence of hospitalization. No kidding. Accelerate, blah, blah, blah. So guess what? It works. Thank you.

So everybody, get the monoclonal antibodies should you be unfortunate enough to get sick. That's one of the tools we have now to deal with this thing. So there's another piece of data that shows that it works and works quite well. I'm going to take a little break. We're going to be back in just a second. Ori, thanks for stepping up. I put you back in the audience. Steve Kirsch, Dr. Kelly Victory, and your questions right after this. I want to give a shout out to our good friends at Blue

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Be sure to use the code drdrew25 for a special discount. Here with my daughter Paulina to share an exciting new project. Over the years, we've talked to a ton of young people about what they really want to know about relationships. It's difficult to know who you are and what you want, especially as a teenager. And not everyone has access to an expert in their house like I did. Of course, it wasn't like I was always that receptive to that advice. Right. No kidding. But now we have written the book on consent. It is called It Doesn't Have to be Awkward, and it explores relationships, romantic relationships, and sex. It's a great guide for teens, parents, and educators to go beyond the talk and have honest and meaningful conversations.

It Doesn't Have to be Awkward will be on sale September 21st. You can order your book anywhere books are sold, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target, and of course, your independent local bookstore. Links are available on drdrew.com. So pre-ordering the book will help people, well, raise awareness, obviously, and it'll get that conversation going early so more people can notice this and spread the word of positivity about healthy relationships. So if you can, we would love your support by pre-ordering now.

Totally. And as we said before, this is a book that both teenagers and their parents should read. Read the book, have the conversation. It doesn't have to be awkward. On sale September 21st. That's a book I work with my daughter, Paulina. That was her next to me there in that little promo for the book. So please do support that. We appreciate it very, very much. And she's actually a writer, so she really appreciates it. She put a lot of work into this book. So we're on with Dr. Kelly Victory, ER doc, public health expert, Steve Kirsch. Steve, how do you like to be introduced? Well, serial entrepreneur based in Silicon Valley. I don't know.

That's the idea. I was thinking about you this morning. I want to get on the phone with you. Or executive director of the COVID-19 Early Treatment Fund probably, maybe the more formal way. I was thinking about you this morning, and I wrote you an email about a mutual acquaintance we have who navigates the medical research world a lot. And I've just seen your frustration with how the medical system works. And I feel like, I don't know, we need to educate

you about how it works because it's very frustrating. And if you understood it better, maybe you could goose it in such a way that it could become more responsive. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, I always thought it worked kind of like you do a scientific experiment and if it succeeds then people um then start using it and oh no no no no yeah yeah yeah i was under this misimpression no no no no it's very then it's you know what's the long-term significance what's the right dosing range other people have to come in and talk about alternative treatments and risk benefit analysis. Then you get to do a second phase two trial. And by the time you're in phase three, the numbers of people you have to treat is just ridiculous. So it takes forever. And I was

talking to, shoot now, Azar, the former secretary of HHS, who had been the CEO of Lilly. And he was saying the biggest problem with medical research are phase three trials. Can't get enough patients. They're too expensive. Bottom line. That was his position on that. Yeah. Well, I can relate to that. We funded the phase three trial for fluvoxamine. And fluvoxamine, for those who don't know, it is extremely effective against COVID. I mean, if you had just one drug to take, fluvoxamine is probably your first choice for that. And it's because it penetrates the blood-brain barrier and can calm inflammation inside your brain as well as other parts of your body. And so that's very, very important in terms of treating COVID.

So we funded the Phase 3 trial, and then it was discontinued because of futility, because they weren't enrolling the patients. But we were spending millions of dollars to generate leads on Facebook. And we had to get past the censorship on Facebook because Facebook was censoring the ads for the clinical trial for a drug that could save people from COVID. That wasn't permitted. So we had to convince them that we were actually doing a good thing. And then we ended up spending a lot of money and we were generating 25 leads a day of people who wanted to enroll in the trial. And the institution was enrolling one person out of the 25. So it ended up being like, you know, $10,000 just to enroll one patient. And it was ridiculous.

And so, and then they had to give it up because, well, we're not enrolling fast enough. Well, it wasn't, it wasn't our fault. We actually sent them the leads and they basically dropped it on the floor and they weren't working on weekends, right? So you have to, you could only recruit five days a week and, you know, they'd only have one person to, to, to handle the leads. And by the time they got to the lead, the hot lead was then no longer a hot lead, right? Or, or they were not within the number of days since first symptoms and so forth. And so it ended up being something that I would not do again. And then after it was halted, by the way,

to make matters worse, after it is halted, you think, okay, they're going to release the data, at least everybody will have the data, right? No, they're not going to release the data. The data is still blinded. The trial ended like two months ago, and the data is still blinded from the researchers because the researchers are being asked to make certain decisions about how the data should be analyzed, and they have to make those decisions while they're blinded, which kind of makes sense. But come on, it's been like two months. And let me give a little primer here, people who have not heard the fluvoxamine story.

Fluvoxamine works by activating the sigma-1 receptor in the brain anti-inflammatory system. There's a good article in the England Journal just entitled Sigma-1 System or Sigma-1 Receptor. Steve has published in JAMA the fluvoxamine study on 100 milligrams three times a day that showed some sort of remarkable outcome. Now, I will say since Steve has been pounding on me about this medication, I've taken it to great benefit. We've used it in lots of other people with mixed results, Steve. I got to tell you, sometimes good times, not, I'm an outlier in terms of how vivid my response was,

but even with me, because we don't have the right kind of research, it was hard to know how much and how long I should have been on it. I just guessed. Well, you're talking about long haulers, right? Yeah, that's where a lot of the experience is right now. Yeah, well, you know,

fluvoxamine was designed for people who have acute COVID, which means you just got the infection. And there is not, I don't know of a single person who took just a very modest dose, and a modest dose would be 50 milligrams twice a day. Correct. And at that dose, I mean, I have taken fluvoxamine 50 milligrams twice a day, so I know exactly what happens and you can't tell the difference. Well, I've had people who have. In fact, a friend of mine had a nasty reaction to it at 50 twice a day. Right, right.

I mean, you know, it's probably like 98% have no reaction at all. Well, and let's also point out, so Prozac and Fluvoxamine are the two, so are the two medications that have this Sigma-1 activation. Zoloft does not. Many other ones do not.

Prozac is not nearly as powerful as fluvoxamine, which is why Steve studied fluvoxamine. Well, we should say that fluvoxamine is a better activator of sigma-1. Correct. want. However, the observational data that we have on Prozac, which is fluvoxetine as opposed to fluvoxamine, I mean, they sound very similar. They're different drugs, different dosages. But the observational data that we have on fluvoxetine, aka Prozac, is actually very good and is in some cases superior to what we have for fluvoxamine. It makes me wonder if that's a dosing phenomenon because standard doses of Prozac are kind of high compared to 50 twice a day of fluvoxamine.

Yeah, yeah. Well, for Prozac, you're probably at like 30 milligrams. The equivalent dose of 50 milligrams twice a day for fluvoxamine would be 30 milligrams once a day for Prozac. No, I would disagree. I think it's like 5 or 10 milligrams once a day. Prozac's very powerful. Yeah. But one of the things that happened with all of these studies, Steve, and you're right, the preliminary data on fluvoxamine looks very, very hopeful, but it was plagued by the same problem that happened with studies on ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, which is that there were delays in the implementation so that

many of the studies that showed, in fact, all of the studies that showed that, for example, hydroxychloroquine wasn't effective is largely because it didn't get given to patients in a timely manner. I can't really think of a medication in medicine or a time in medicine where you benefit by letting the patient get really, really sick before you implement the medication. And that's what happened. That's what's happened over and over again with COVID-19. You wait until people are on the verge of being intubated and then say, yeah, then we gave them some hydroxychloroquine and it didn't work. But that's kind of the way. This is why I was actually thinking about Steve.

I was listening to a lecture on PSMA, which is prostate-specific membrane antigen, PSMA. And there's been major breakthroughs in terms of delivering radioactive material to prostate cancer cells using this PSMA binding system. And I was looking at some of the research and all the research is done on advanced prostate cancer. I mean, literally their cancer disappears, but the tumor burden is high and the genetics of advanced prostate cancer are different than early prostate cancer. And so guess what? What we're doing in spite of the entire tumor burden disappearing, it comes right back and people are dead in four months anyway. So it's lengthened life four months. That's the way medical research goes. We're first looking at the really sick people. Now that they've proven concept, now

they're going to go back. Ultimately, one day we may be delivering this to people with the earliest, earliest prostate cancer of all time and just sort of knocking it out right away with this PSMA target. But that is a decade away of research. That's how medical research goes, you know? So it's not that unusual that first they give stuff where there's sort of no, there's nothing else to do, right? So they just try it there. You know what I mean? That's just sort of how medical research is constructed. Yes. Oh, Kelly, it makes sense to me when you're doing a research study, perhaps. Are you not hearing me? Yeah, I hear you now.

Go ahead. You're not hearing me? I hear you. I got you. Yeah. It's one thing to talk about doing a large randomized controlled trial, I guess, but I don't understand. I still cannot find a way to get my arms around why there was so much suppression of, you know, trying drugs,

simple drugs. You're talking about, when you talk about something like hydroxychloroquine, which frankly pales, I think, in comparison to ivermectin, but let's say hydroxychloroquine, which has been FDA approved for six and a half decades. We've been using that drug since the 1940s. It's taken by hundreds of millions of people around the globe annually for everything from lupus to rheumatoid arthritis to malaria. It has an incredibly good safety profile. It is dirt cheap. clear unless you want to say that with, you know, if you acknowledge that any of these medications, whether it's fluvoxapine, you know, ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, or whatever else, if you acknowledge that they work, you can't have an EUA, an emergency use authorization,

for a vaccine, okay? That's the reality. So instead, we disallowed, actively disallowed, any conversation about these medications. And frankly, I believe that many tens of thousands of people died unnecessarily as a result of that. Let me bring people. A lot of people are patiently waiting to come up and talk with us. And again, you'll stream on multiple platforms as well as on Clubhouse when you come up to talk to us. So, Marthatha i clicked on your also um we have a co-founder of clubhouse here oh no kidding who's that paul davidson hi paul thank you for uh for stopping by and for giving us this platform clubhouse is really uh

helping us yeah it's helping us a great deal. It's been a nice way to interact. I'm trying to get Martha up here. Paul, one thing I will tell you is I click on the microphone many, many times to get people up to the podium. I don't know if it's on their end, but there's something about the efficiency of somebody raising their hand, clicking on the microphone, and then getting them to the podium. It's not as smooth. I don't know what's happening at their end. At my end, I just see the mic is checked. If Paul wants to speak, raise your hand. Mic is checked, but she's not coming up to the podium. Now, maybe she's left or something.

I don't know what that means. And then there's no way to uncheck it. That's the other thing I would say. Don't complain. She has to accept. When you invite her up, she's got to accept it. So she may be away from the phone or something. I'd like to uncheck it.

I'd like to uncheck the invite, which I can't do because I don't know how to do it. So I don't have multiple people up there at the same time. So let's see if Anna wants to come up. Anna, are you there? Anna, there you are. Go ahead. Oh, hi. That was sudden.

Can you hear me? I hear you loud and clear. We got you. Awesome. No, I just wanted to say that, you know, just growing up in Silicon Valley and stuff like that and watching it change, there's definitely been like a different energy out here for like at least the past five years that kind of gradually perpetuated in a negative sense. And I don't know what to blame it on exactly but there's something

it's definitely not what you guys are doing because you guys what your conversation that's normal you know i'm saying and it's been around for a long time and that's why i think it catches us catches us off so off guard but i mean us regular people out here we've been kind of censored by these tech companies for a while now unfortunately you know all my friends have moved away and you know if they're not part of the the tech companies for a while now, unfortunately, you know, all my friends have moved away and you know, if they're not part of the tech companies, like they're, everyone has to leave, you know? Give me a specific, what do you mean? I mean,

you can't work in that environment. Well, yeah, no, I mean, I live right by Google to be honest, you know, and I, and I grew up in Cupertino and like, I went to the best schools out here and I'm not trying to sound entitled. Like I was never really that in tech but like they keep you know um hiring people from all over the world and you know nothing wrong with that but you know I mean it's to the point where Mountain View you know they specifically have translators for Russian and Chinese and Mandarin you know and it's just like it's kind of like and I have like no friends here left and that's why i have

to move and get on going too but it's just kind of like there's a lot of forces out here that there's a lot going on here that it's hard to explain in this small segment and i don't want to like sound too negative in a sense but it's something that we've been fighting off like for a long time and they just keep getting bigger and bigger but hopefully with this i'm gonna i'm gonna ask you to be a little more explicit about what you think's going on um gosh i hate to say it but there's like a lot of like executives from like different cultures you know and um a lot of backhand deals and stuff like that well i mean actually san jose has done a lot of like backdoor you know deals like developers and stuff like that to keep like you know you know putting people out

of their homes or like like the flea market for instance they supposedly sold the flea market and um had meetings about that you know and for instance like the way i know you is i know you from live 105 for instance that's how i grew grew up with you. And they keep changing our radio stations. All of our radio stations have been taken over. I mean, they still play music, but it's like, you know, there's more Spanish radio stations now than there was before, which I don't mind. The only music that's kicking off is the reggaeton, which I admire. But I agree with you with the artists. I don't know what's going on either.

I feel like, you know, it's, it's, I don't know. Let's get Steve's Steve. You're from that area. Do you get what she's talking about? You know, I haven't really experienced any kind of issues at all in Silicon Valley. But, you know, that, that, that's my perspective. You know, everybody's the indigenous, so to speak, people, the people who grew up in that community are sort of feeling something and they're trying to make sense of it. I hear Anna trying to make sense of it and not getting

any help from the big companies. I think, well, I hate to say help because I think the reason why I don't want to be specific is I don't want to lead people with the wrong idea. I probably have to sit down and think about it a little bit more. I can message you later. I don't want to like, you know, miss it. I don't want, you know, I don't want to get to the companies and give a wrong picture. You know what I'm saying? I get it. You're trying, you're trying to welcome all, all everything, everybody, but you're worried about um it sounds like you're worried about an excessive persuasive force that might be altering things more than we realize i guess yeah yeah and it's a starting to affect you guys unfairly but at the same time i'm not surprised because i was already

used to it in a sense you know like it sounds silly but i'm like oh well i already have an idea of what might be doing this, but I don't know how, I don't have a cure for it. You know? Interesting. And you know what, how about this? I'll probably like sit down and write down my, like my, my path and how I got here and stuff like that. And I'll send it to you. Contact at drdrew.com. I'm moving you back to the audience. Susan, would that be about right? Contact. Do you look for it there? Sounds good. Okay, good. Uh, there are lots of hands up guys. You still want to stay with me, Kelly and Contact, do you look for it there? Sounds good. Okay, good. There are lots of hands up, guys.

You still want to stay with me, Kelly and Steve? Are you still okay? Sure, I can. We're going to wrap up in a few minutes. Okay, well, before you wrap up, I just want to say something about early treatment. Yeah. It's really, really important. It almost doesn't matter what drugs you take, whether it's ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine or fluvoxamine. The most important thing is to, as soon as you know you

have COVID, like you got a PCR test or you think you have COVID or whatever, you want to get at least one, if not more, of the drugs. And more is better because all of these drugs are like super safe. So fluvoxamine, ivermectin and so forth. And so start taking the drugs as soon as possible. That is by far the number one determinant of outcome. Because if you wait four days, you may find it's only, you know, you'll get like maybe a 30% benefit. But if people who get fluvoxamine really early on and take it at a very low dose of 50 milligrams twice a day, none of them. I have not seen anybody come down with long-haul COVID or have anything but a really nice time with the virus. I think you're spot on, Steve.

And this is what I was trying to say is that this delay is what's causing the huge problem. These drugs are safe. There's no downside to trying fluvoxamine. There's no downside to trying ivermectin. There's no downside from any of them. I want to say something a little more operational that's an epiphenomenon around what you guys are talking about, which is when physicians don't take care of patients, and we have plenty of examples where doctors do too much and do harm. We all know that. But equally, well, worse is when doctors ignore and abandon and neglect patients. That is how you

have a bad outcome for any medical condition. COVID is the only condition I can think of off the top of my head where doctors said, don't see a doctor, go home, come back when your oxygen saturation is 88%. I've never in my life seen anything like that. And we now, we live in the day of telemedicine. You need only go online. I don't care who the doctor is. Get on the screen, go to Zoom, do telemedicine. If you have a doctor, telemed with that doctor or phone with that doctor. Have medical care. Have them check up with you again tomorrow. If you together decide

not to do any early treatment, fine. Follow up, get proper medical care. If somebody tells you to go home and don't talk to a doctor and don't come back until your oxygen saturation is through the floor, I would call that bordering on malpractice. I would say, let's think of something we can do that, thank you, even if it is getting on the list to get the Bamlanivimab and Etesivimab, if I progress, because it takes about four days to get that drug set up. So if you're going down with COVID, at least meet with a doctor and get on the Bamlanivimab and Etesivimab, which is free to you. It's free.

It's insane that that's not happening. Telemedicine is medicine and it works and you can do it right the moment you get sick, right at that moment. Now, that physician may have trouble getting early treatment medication because the pharmacies may obfuscate it or block it or whatever. So you may have to talk to a couple of people. You may not be satisfied with one telemedicine visit. That's okay too. But certainly if you have a doctor, get him or her on the horn right away, as soon as you get sick and follow up. Kelly, do you disagree with anything I just said? No, it's all about early treatment and the patients who I've treated early, which there are many, many, many, many,

none of them have ended up needing to even be hospitalized, let alone ended up in the ICU or worse. I am disgusted, disgusted with our peers that they just tell people to go home and don't follow them up until they on their own come back with hypoxia. That is insanity. I mean, how can we what the F what is going on? How did that happen? Well, a really good resource for people, depending on whether or not you have your own physician or not, a really good resource is speakwithanmd.com. Speakwithanmd.com. They will do a telemedicine visit with you. You don't have to be an established patient.

They are able to prescribe medications in all 50 states and they will. They will make a determination which of the entire cocktail of medications you would benefit from to be treated early. So I would strongly encourage you to write that down. If, God forbid, you or a family member starts getting ill with COVID, speak with an MD.com has been remarkably good. And I would argue if you're going to elect to not be vaccinated, you need a plan like this because you have a high risk of infection, as you do. It's just the Delta is really getting around. And I don't think it's as virulent as the other cases.

I think it's just more penetrated. So my suggestion is that people talk to their doctor before. Sure. Because what you want to do is you want to have the medication on hand that people talk to their doctor before. Sure, sure. Because what you want to do is you want to have the medication on hand because you will find that, oh, you'll get the prescription and then the pharmacy, it'll be Friday, right?

And the pharmacy won't be able to get it until Monday or if it's ivermectin, the pharmacy won't be able to get it for two weeks. So it is much better, you're much better off by saying, hey, let me prepare and let me get this medication on hand. And doctors will do that. And by the way, if you have the right doctor and look, and if I'm your doctor and you elect not to get the vaccine and you want to have a conversation with me about what we're going to do, I welcome it. That helps

me because then I'm not in a fire drill when you get the COVID. We've agreed, we've understood generally medicine's practice that way. But whether it's end of life issues or cancer treatments, whatever, we plan ahead. Fine, do that with this disease too. There's a lot to be done. Doctors may differ on their opinions on what to do, but there's stuff to be done. As I said, if I just read you the New England Journal article that came out 10 minutes ago, which is that Bamlanivimab

and Etzivimab work, they're free, they're available, your doctor can plan to get it for you. That's it. If you want to just do that, great, but there are other things to do as well. I will also put in a plug because I think it's been really a tragic failure on public health to not seize on the opportunity during this pandemic to educate people about the necessity to replete vitamin D. Vitamin D deficiency in the United States is very, very high. About 80% of all African Americans are vitamin D deficient, 50% of Latinos and upwards of 30% of Caucasians. Vitamin D deficiency is highly associated with a poor outcome from COVID. So if you aren't taking vitamin D supplements, you should, and you should be taking zinc as well. And not just during COVID because of COVID,

zinc and vitamin D are very, very beneficial to the overall functioning of your immune system and will help you to fight off all kinds of things, including common colds and influenza. So those are the simple over-the-counter things that you should be doing in addition to the obvious, which is adequate sleep, regular exercise, good nutrition, stress management, and all the rest. Amen. So thank you, Kelly. I'm taking my zinc again. Yeah, I'm a little unclear. Only a half, though. Yeah, I'm going to say, because zinc does affect copper metabolism. I'm a little unclear because we don't have the research yet.

How much zinc, how long? But I do agree with you that zinc is helpful for the immune system, it seems to be. One more point is that doctors tend to be very hesitant to treat patients unless they're symptomatic. They say, oh, well, I don't want to give you fluoxetine if you're not symptomatic because I don't want to give you something that, you know, unless you're symptomatic, I'm not going to give it to you. Or unless you have multiple risk factors, I'm not going to give you the drugs. Those are the doctors you want to steer clear of because this, I don't care whether you're 12 years old or 17 year old or you're 65 or you're 85, you have to take this virus very seriously. And I don't, you know, doesn't matter what your age is, you should treat this as soon as you know, you should treat this. You should not wait for symptoms. And that

is the number one biggest mistakes that physicians make is they say, well, I'm not going to treat you unless you have symptoms. And the number one mistake that patients make is waiting too long to see their physician. And we see this all the time. I think that's a great note because this is a beast. This is a tough virus, a weird virus. It is a weird virus. And it doesn't, you don't know what the outcome is until three days after you had it. That's right. Well, no, that was me. What she's referring to is I didn't turn positive. I was tested multiple times while I was sick, still negative. Yeah, but it happens to a lot of people. It does. It's all the, the, when people turn positive can be all over the place. It can be a very early, can be late. For me, Kelly, you'll appreciate this.

I don't know if I shared this with you. So I'm lying in bed with a high fever and miserable and neurologically out of it. And I'm thinking, all right, if this isn't COVID, what is it? It's acute lymphocytic leukemia. It's the only thing that will do this. So I immediately started preparing myself

for a bone marrow biopsy in the morning. I thought if the test is negative, I got to get a bone marrow biopsy. I'm okay with it. It's going to be all right. He does that all the time. There you go. All right, you guys. Drew, most of us got over that after the third year

of medical school. I only do that stuff when I get weirdly sick and it's not fitting a pattern. Then I go, phew, into all the possibilities. All right. I appreciate those with, all right. I'm, I appreciate those with your hands up. I'm not going to get, there were a lot of hands today. I appreciate those who did come up or we appreciate your commentary. Uh, Steve is always very interesting to speak with you. Let's get on the phone to discuss what I mentioned in that

email to you. You're talking about censorship and somehow it ended up being COVID, but that's how it always is. And Dr. Kelly victory. thank you for getting me kicked off YouTube and for making Susan happy for creating controversy. Oh, Steve helped you too. Steve helped me too? Oh yeah. He was the first strike we had a couple of weeks ago with Dr. Zaleko. I had strike one and strike two here with me today. If anybody needs a strike on their YouTube channel, I do that for free. So I'm happy to help you out. You know what, Steve?

I think we should have DrDrew.TV should be the new YouTube. We should just build it, and then we can all talk about whatever we want. Well, that's the deal. That's the great news about this country still. And we're also on Rumble today. You can find ways to maintain your privilege. We're on Rumble today, which is sensor-free, and we're working some details out with them.

Restream doesn't go out there, so you don't see the 500 or 600 people that are watching right now. But thank you for watching. We will have more content coming your way. We'll also be putting up the videos that Steve and Zelenko and Kelly Victory got us censored for so that you can experience it on Rumble. Well, you can judge for yourself and let me know, you know, give me some feedback. Did we, did we really subject the world to medical misinformation

or were we just chatting? You're a horrible person, by the way, I just thought. I know, it's the way I feel. So am I. I guess, I guess it's my fault because I produced it but I I don't care I YouTube is not the end of the earth you know what I mean there we're also on Facebook hi everybody at Facebook we're also on Twitter still temporarily I'm sure and we're also on Twitch which unfortunately the shows go away after two or three weeks but but we are there live and we have a big fan base over there because you know everybody kind of goes wherever they like to chat with their friends. We're getting, uh, we did get a comment on rumble and it was, uh, where's Adam Carolla? Adam is a, you can see the Adam and Dr. Drew podcast at my website.

But we will. Well, Drew, Drew, you and Susan glossed over the, uh, the details of, of what YouTube said, which I think, uh, should be mentioned. The reason that they claimed that you were spreading medical misinformation, just as they have every time they've censored me, was it's medical information because, quote, it contradicts the stance of the World Health Organization. Think about that. It's the World Health Organization is now what the parameter by which we are measuring medical information. That's a scary thought. the NIH, the WHO, the CDC. We just did what was right for our patients, and we were always free to do that. We ceded that to these bureaucracies during this pandemic to the detriment of the patients and society at large. It's never happened before. You've got to understand this.

These bureaucratic organizations were there in a loose advisory capacity only in terms of the practice of medicine. The practice of medicine was determined by the professional standards of the professionals practicing and the professional organizations who certified them. That's it. AMA had nothing to do with us. FDA had nothing to do with us. Nothing. Right, Kelly? Am I overstating that?

No. No, absolutely. And sure as heck, the CEO of the hospital or the chief of staff had nothing to say about what you could or couldn't prescribe, whether or not how you treated a patient. The physician-patient relationship was sacrosanct. And it was between only, those are the only two people invited into the exam room. Whoever the hell let the CDC, the FDA, the NIH, and God forbid, the World Health Organization into the exam room made a really bad decision. It's terrible, terrible, terrible.

All right. So thank you. As Caleb is pointing out, we have over 700 viewers on Rumble right now. We appreciate you guys. We're going to pay more attention to Rumble going forward. And hopefully they'll get restream hooked up too yeah and we're hoping locals also will get restream hooked up or we'll be able to live stream on locals as well uh miss kaylee we don't know the alleged misinformation

they will really not tell us that's the problem no it's some i okay i'm gonna post the link so everybody can read it on drew's twitter so that you can go and see all the rules that you know basically can't speak okay about anything i don't think we went over the line you know the problem is you can find it on youtube it's it's the um you know it's just the rules on youtube go ahead steve yeah yeah the you know one of the problems though is that they don't tell you they don't give you a date for the WHO. Right. No, it's May 20th. So the WHO will say that, yeah, it's okay to vaccinate kids. Right. And just before that, they'll say that it's not okay to vaccinate kids.

Right. And so it's kind of like you can put up your video and then have it censored, and then, you know, they just reverse. Right. It's really hard. Your video was like a month or so old before they censored it. And I even had stuff go back like five months that they censored and brought forward. And it was like, it was really confusing because it had already been up for like five months.

So, you know. But the bottom line is, the bottom line is, I don't care. I don't care if it changes. I don't care what the WHO says. Right. I shouldn't have to care. I am actively calling into question the guidelines of the CDC because I think they're wrong. And I think they will be proven wrong. And I think I will end up on the right side of history when this is all said and done. Which is what we all want.

We want to be on the right side of history and not feel like we have to hide. Well, the idea is to help people, not to hurt people, right? That's fundamental. Fundamental. What's the reason we're having these conversations? We, in the meantime, have gotten sidelined in this whole weird censorship conversation, which is, again, never thought I would be involved with in my lifetime. I mean, Drew is always super careful. He's worked for, you know, he's worked in radio for over 30, 40 years. He knows the rules, what he can and can't say. And he's very careful.

He worked on CNN, which was, imagine that. So, you know, he knows he's very careful. He's not putting out stuff to get, he's not a shock jock, you know? So, you know, and I, I personally am a little bit more, I don't know, I'm more edgy. Like I'm willing to say whatever, cause I'm not a doctor, you know? So, um, next week we, uh, may have William Shatner amongst, uh, who are the other two guests? I know we're going to change Kelly and Steve, the bill Shatner. Who are the other twos? There were other, we're working on Monica Gandhi, but we're, it's up in the air.

So, and then on, And Wednesday is Shatner, but we're going to Freedom Fest on Thursday. So we'll be gone Thursday, Friday, Saturday, back on Sunday. But the beginning of next week, Tuesday and Wednesday, we'll have two great shows. All right, you guys. Steve, Kelly, thank you so much. I'm going to dismantle the room quietly here. And we thank everyone for trying to get up to the podium. I'm sorry I couldn't get to everybody and for being a part of the audience. We appreciate it. And Paul, thank you for the opportunity to let us speak here on Clubhouse. We appreciate it very much. Anything else? Thank you, Caleb, for producing this from Alabama and good luck with the new baby this week. Hopefully it comes. That's the other reason why we're going to take a little break from Ask Dr. Drew.

But I will use the clubhouse to get some people on the line next week as well. But he is going to have a baby. Congratulations. Congratulations to Caleb. And Kelly, Steve, thank you so much. Thanks for having me, as always, Drew. Thanks, Steve. Talk soon to both of you.

Well, he's not going to have a baby. His wife's going to both of you. Well, he's not going to have a baby. His wife's going to have a baby. Yes, his wife's going to have the baby. I trust that's how it's going to go. But it feels like you're going to have a baby anyways. It's an experience. Yeah, a lot of congratulations on the restream. It's so exciting to have a baby.

Yeah, it will change everything, my friend. It will change everything. You know, those dogs you have? They will become dogs. They will just be dogs after the baby's delivered. And if you have cats, they just become cats. I feel like this is a pretty heavy conversation. So I want to lighten this up for just a second. Let's talk about babies. I want to talk about cats. Okay. Because Susan's become obsesseden this up for just a second. I want to talk about cats because Susan has become obsessed with the Netflix series about cat people. Oh my God. And I sent the guy, that cat guy, the rapper, the rapper, yeah. To cat temp. And she said, she goes, she's having some surgery and she's feeling sorry for herself. She goes, but that made my day. What was his name? You made me follow him.

I probably can. He is so cute. He's a cat rapper. He is so funny. Maybe somebody else knows, knows who he is. His name is. I am Mosho. Is that him?

Yeah. I am Mosho. I am Mosho. The cat rapper. Yeah. Oh, you got to check him out. He's so funny. And he's also on the Cat People Netflix series.

So it's pretty funny. And so what we were saying or we were sitting watching that was that some of these people need to have children because when they have children, the cats just become cats. They're no longer their children. The cats become cats, which is. longer their children. The cats become cats. But I think dogs are a little different. I don't know why. Dogs still are your babies.

Dogs are our babies still. There you go, Caleb. Well, you'll see. Your relationship with them will change. You'll actually appreciate them more in some ways because they'll stand guard on your baby and you'll appreciate that and that kind of thing. My cat, Vern, he's still a lover. They're already reacting now. It's like every time he kicks from the inside out, it's like the puppies

react. What kind of dogs are they? They know something's up. What kind of dogs are they? They're little multi-poo dogs. They're city dogs. Now we've moved to Alabama and they're not super happy about dragonflies and wasps. How come they don't have their own uh instagram

accounts or do they i just aren't following them they do i just haven't like they even have their own websites of course of course selfie puppy.com probably has a website yeah i forgot who i was dealing with of course of course our baby has a website it's just nation.baby oh countdown there so of course not even It already has a website. I need your address, too, by the way. Well, congratulations on this. I don't even have his address. I appreciate all you're doing for us.

Thank you. We welcome our new friends over at Rumble. Hopefully, we'll continue to do a lot more over there. Somebody, MorningCoff430, said, Dr. Drew on Rumble rocks. Oh, good. They're not on the restream yet, though, right? No.

Is that going to happen? But there is a live chat. We didn't have very many comments, they're not on the restream yet though, right? No. Is that going to happen? There is a live chat. We didn't have very many comments, but maybe I could get the live chat. You're live there now. Can I get a live chat up on my screen going forward? Yeah, we could, we could have it on another computer and you could read it. But I, you know, we, when you bring Kelly Victory and Steve, Steve Kirsch on, there's not a lot of room for chatting. I understand. They have a lot to say. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

But I'm glad we were able to say it openly today. I hope Facebook and Twitter doesn't censor us next. But if they do, we'll be on Rumble, we'll be on Twitch, and we'll figure it out. We will figure it out. We will go where the wind blows us. And we'll be on Locals. So go to to dr.locals.com sign up today and then we'll keep you we'll give you an email every time we go live in case we get censored and you have to go to a different platform all right that's our email list

oh i just found out rayvon Owen got COVID. He's going to write some jingles for us. Did he get a vaccine? I don't know. I didn't ask him. Well, he's going to be immune now. Although people are still recommending that vaccine to the previously COVID recovery. He's a young guy.

It's going to be a nothing for him. So, all right, guys. Let's wrap this thing up. We appreciate you all being here. Everybody send good vibes to Caleb because he may not be here next week and good luck with the new baby. Good. Keep me posted.

Susan, are we in here tomorrow? Is that accurate? No. We're not in here tomorrow. Tomorrow's Thursday. Correct. Yes, we are. Tomorrow we have Alex Berenson. Another person who's been censored. Oh, tomorrow's Thursday. Correct. Yes, we are. Oh, tomorrow we have Alex Berenson. Ah, good. Another person who's been censored. Oh, boy.

We're not going to be on YouTube though, right? No, we won't be on YouTube. So everybody needs to tell their friends on YouTube, including TS, if anybody knows who he is. TS? Remember the guy that was trolling you? I even missed that guy. Oh, yeah. Where is that guy?

You had some other guy you were flipping off today, I noticed I didn't see his comments. There was an FU to somebody. I said FU YouTube. Oh, it didn't look like that. Yeah. We're not on YouTube this for two weeks. So, um, which is okay. Whatever. I don't think that's what you actually typed in. I know. I accidentally put a three instead of an eight. So it was trying to figure out what that was, but we're, you know, we'll, we'll figure this out.

We all have, I, I really think that we'll think of something better. All right. Thank you guys. We'll see you tomorrow. Alex Berenson. Ask Dr.

Drew is produced by Caleb nation and Susan Penske. This is just a reminder that the discussions here are not a substitute for you guys. We'll see you tomorrow. Alex Berenson. it medical care. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me. Call 9-1-1. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255, anytime, 24-7, for free support and guidance. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at drdrew.com slash help.