Ask Dr. Drew - Bombshell Report: CDC Plans Included COVID Isolation Camps, Vaccinated-Only Spaces & Vaccine Passports w/ Dr. Jay Bhattacharya & Vanessa Dylyn – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 423

Episode Date: November 16, 2024

“No matter how bad you think Covid policies were, they were intended to be worse,” writes Jeffrey A. Tucker of Brownstone, in a bombshell expose of the original plan for COVID-19: lockdowns for everyone, vaccinated-only public indoor spaces, and an ultimate scheme for permanent vaccine passports – and even nationwide quarantine camps. “People were to be isolated, given only food and some cleaning supplies,” writes Tucker. “There were no provisions made for any legal appeals or even the right to legal counsel.” “In other words,” Tucker concludes “this is what used to be concentration camps.” Dr. Jay Bhattacharya is a Professor of Medicine at Stanford University. He is a research associate at the National Bureau of Economics Research, a senior fellow at the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research, and at the Stanford Freeman Spogli Institute. His research focuses on the economics of health care around the world with a particular emphasis on the health and well-being of vulnerable populations. Follow Dr. Bhattacharya at https://x.com/drjbhattacharya Vanessa Dylyn is an Emmy-nominated, Canadian Screen Award-winning producer of the COVID Collateral documentary. Her credits include Werner Herzog’s “Into the Inferno” for Netflix, CBC’s “The Divided Brain,” and “The Musical Brain” featuring Sting, Michael Buble, and many others. Her work has been backed by major broadcasters like Netflix, CBC, and Nat Geo. Follow her at https://x.com/VanessaDylyn and watch the documentary at https://covidcollateral.com/ 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • CAPSADYN - Get pain relief with the power of capsaicin from chili peppers – without the burning! Capsadyn's proprietary formulation for joint & muscle pain contains no NSAIDs, opioids, anesthetics, or steroids. Try it for 15% off at https://drdrew.com/capsadyn • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at https://drdrew.com/fatty15 • CHECK GENETICS - Your DNA is the key to discovering the RIGHT medication for you. Escape the big pharma cycle and understand your genetic medication blueprint with pharmacogenetic testing. Save $200 with code DRDREW at https://drdrew.com/check • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dr. Jay Bhattacharya makes a command performance today. You can follow him on X at D-R-J-B-H-A-T-T-A-C-H-A-R-Y-A. Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, check that out. I think if you look up, well, on mine, it pops right up. And we're going to also speak with Vanessa Dillon. She is on X with Collateral COVID. Collateral COVID and covidcollateral.com is the website regarding a new movie that Dr. Bhattacharya appears in. Dr. Bhattacharya and I spent the weekend together at a retreat and we shared some ideas and

things are continuing to move forward. The truth is marching on. I pulled out a quote from Thomas Paine. I'm attempted to read it to you maybe towards the end of the show today. But Dr. Bhattacharya always has great interesting ideas and we will get to that and the HHS document what they discovered about what the government was up to after this. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f*** sake.

Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want help stopping, I can help.

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when you had some stem cell injected into your wrist and had some nerve pain afterwards. Yeah, it was kind of painful, but I used the capsidin. It really worked. It helped with the nerve pain. I guess it was sort of shooting up my hands and I put it on my hands and it went away. There we go. And it also works on mosquito bites, by the way. Excellent. Look, capsaicin has been around a long time, but the big advantage of this one is that it doesn't burn on your skin. Don't get it in your eyes. So in a few minutes, we'll be speaking to Emmy-nominated producer

Vanessa Dillon regarding COVID Collateral. It's a documentary looking at what happened. Dr. Jay Bhattacharya joins me now. He's a professor of health policy at Stanford. The movie is an important contribution to the telling the history of the pandemic, he says. Robert Redfield, the former CDC director, emphasizes we need to have honest and open disagreements.

That's why this film is so good. It's about truth and discussion and openness. And now because of Dr. Bhattacharya's scientific gathering a couple weeks ago, the president of Stanford is standing behind the open discourse of science and the pursuit of the truth. Dr. Bhattacharya, welcome back. Thank you for having me, Dr. Drew. And so even though your president is interested in the pursuit of the truth,

I noticed you tweeted something about the Wikipedia, I guess, CEO and her statement repeatedly that the truth is meaningless, essentially, because it's an old white. And I don't know, I'm an old white man. I guess you're not an old white man. I don't know how you want to identify, but maybe it's meaningful to you because, well, it's not meaningful to you because it's my thing. I'm an old white man. Yeah, I think there's this woman named Catherine Maher, I think is her name. She was the head of the Wikimedia Foundation, which funded, which fundraising for does Wikipedia. And then later, actually, she, she went over to NPR. She's like the CEO or something of NPR. And it's her attitude toward the truth is absolutely shocking. Her basic idea is that there are many, many things that people disagree on. If our goal is to find

the truth, we're never going to be able to get things done. So what we really need is something else. And I mean, it's one thing for a scientist to have an attitude like that. They probably won't be very good scientists. They'll fail as a scientist. Scientists succeed because they have a burning desire to know the truth. they change their minds when they see new data or whatnot it's another thing to have people who run our uh you know the the main main uh encyclopedia of human knowledge or or like a public public radio station where the where the i or like essentially what she's arguing for is propaganda that she's she's saying like look we, we can, we can, we can just show to you a facade that looks like the truth, but isn't because it, it papers over the differences

because we'll just, we'll just exclude all the people that disagree. We'll slander all the people that disagree. Um, I mean, I don't know if you've looked at my page in Wikipedia. It's like, it's, it's, it's, it's pretty vandalized. Um, uh, and it, it's not And it's not anywhere close to an accurate representation of who I am or what I'm about. If that's her version of what is true and what's false, like, well, the importance of the truth, well, then, I mean, I don't want any part of it. You need go no further than the documentary series on chernobyl about how these totalitarian

organizations manage the truth and by the way i would argue that it's the chinese communist party and the local communist officials that gave us the false narrative on covid being managed by lockdowns it's because in those organizations, the truth doesn't matter. And look what they did to us as a result. Susan, do you have the book with the graph on it that Gigi Pink was pushing around where COVID was just, it was increasing, increasing, a little blip, and then flatline with the lockdowns. Well, of course that didn't happen. And we had, there it is. See that yellow line was the graph that our scientists use. There's stuff going around now with some of the advocates for the lockdowns using that graph and what they did in Wuhan as why we should follow what we did.

And they have yet to apologize. They have yet to acknowledge what they've done. That is what happens when the truth has no currency. That book by Michael Sanger is really interesting. You wrote it quite early, actually. You know, in February of 2020, Tony Fauci sent his deputy, Cliff Lane, to go visit China.

It was part of this WHO junket, essentially, to China. And the idea was, let's go see what the Chinese did. They came back home saying that what the Chinese did in January 2020, with their draconian lockdowns, had worked. And there's this chilling email from Cliff Lane to Maria Van Kerkhove, the chief epidemiologist of the WHO, where it said, what the Chinese did worked,

but albeit at great cost, it's going to take more than just the people in this room to decide if we want to do the same. Or something very close to that effect. They were the top public health officials of the world were absolutely fooled by the Chinese supposed

conquering of COVID in 2020. Yes, they were hoodwinked and then the Italian had their version of it and as Mikkel Sager documents in that book, the guy that championed it in Italy didn't really think it would be a good policy so much as a great way

to introduce how the Chinese Communist Party runs a government. This is disgusting. There should be a reckoning. And now we have the HHS document, which you, I think, tweeted about a little bit. What did you see there? And why isn't that getting more traction? Okay, so this story is just, it's mind-boggling.

I agree, it deserves more attention. HHS commissioned a public relations firm named Forrest Marshberg in September of 2020, and then spent almost a billion dollars over the course of the Biden administration, essentially to propagandize the American public. Their themes were very, the goal, the main goal was to tell people that if you don't get the

COVID vaccine, you are unclean. And they fear mongered about the risk to kids. They pushed forward false ideas about natural immunity, where they said essentially denied its existence. They did everything they possibly could to tell you about the benefits of the vaccine, but never once told you about the potential harms, right? So for instance, the side effects of myocarditis for young men, as best I can tell, never came up once in any of their ads. And they put these ads into like the most vulnerable populations. It essentially was a billion dollars spent by the taxpayer to propagandize the American people.

And in terms of the risk reward, sorry, not just risk reward, but the informed consent that we were offering our patients, I would argue we are still generally not giving them proper informed consent. We are offering only two vaccines when there are at least four. And we are not offering the idea that there might be monoclonal antibodies, and there's certainly Paxlovid or Molnupiravir, and other ways of treating this thing should it occur as a component of how we help the patient make the decision about whether they want to boost her or not. It's just not being done anywhere. And it's being pushed. The two versions are just being pushed by the CDC. I would argue that is virtually illegal what they're doing.

Well, certainly if what the propaganda firm, the PR, sorry, PR firm did is... No, no, no. Let's call it what it is. It's a propaganda firm. And that's, by the way, that's the other part. I want to see a law that prevents propaganda from being perpetrated on the American people. That is disgusting.

But go ahead. The propaganda firm. Let's call it what it is. If a pharmaceutical company had put those ads out, if they put those ads out, then they would be liable by the FDA for violating the kind of advertising restrictions the FDA places on pharma.

Like they would have, for instance, had to have told the public about the potential for side effects, right? They couldn't have just promised things that were beneficial about the product without also telling the harms, potential harms, right? It's really shocking. Essentially, the U. also telling the harms, potential harms, right? It's really shocking. Essentially, the U.S. government became,

during the pandemic, especially during the Biden administration, the most gung-ho cheerleader for the pharma industry in the history of the pharma industry. They've never had a better salespeople. That's right. That's right. Now, here's what I want to know, though. This is kind of interesting to me right now. I wonder what your thoughts are on this. They're still trying to scare. And I saw that you had James McWhorter up talking on your

stream about safety Uber Alice and safety safe spaces and where that all came from but this safety uber alice leads into this fear everything you know be afraid and hide under your bed and shelter in place and all this nonsense um i feel like the things that they've been using in the mainstream press and the shibboleths, the slogans, Nazi, Hitler, all this stuff, have been shown now to the average American to be so empty and so devoid of any truth that I feel like this delusionality that they were able to build through propaganda isn't working anymore on almost all fronts. Are you seeing that too? It does seem like the election has sort of broken some of the spell. I mean, it's not that it's gone, but it's still, I think it has lost some of its power.

You know, I think it's the boy you called Cried Wolf. Like, if you are screaming bloody murder and, you know, the thing that you're screaming about doesn't happen, people aren't going to believe you so much as easily anymore. Maybe that's what's happening. And we'll see. I have to say

I never thought that it was possible to scare the population in the way that the population was scared in 2020. I was surprised too. I thought we were more rational people than that, that we would look at data. I confess, I was very naive at the beginning of 2020.

I thought that a data point or two would dispel fear and panic, especially if it's a real data point. And I turned out to be wrong about that. So I don't, I guess I'm a little gun shy about making any confident claims that we are beyond that now. Maybe I was wrong before.

Wise, that's actually wise. It's wise to be cautious about as we emerge from this thing. There's bound to be pullbacks. And you know, I interviewed Scott Atlas and he was telling me what it was like inside to try to bring up data. It was completely dismissed, completely. You were not allowed to bring up data in a medical decision-making environment.

It's just mind-boggling when you hear it. And Redfield admitted it. He said the same thing. He wants to write a book. He needs to write that book. We got to make sure he writes the book because that's where we're going to find out what really happened here.

Well, Vanessa's film that you're going to, about to interview Vanessa Dillon, her film is fantastic actually. And it has Redfield and he's such an interesting figure. I mean, in 2020, I thought he was, I just, I didn't know him. I didn't know him personally.

I would watch him on TV and he would say things where like, you know, I just didn't agree with him. And I heard from Scott Atlas about his opinion of Redfield was not all that positive, I have to say. Then I met him in real life. And then I understood what happened. I think he was a hero, actually. I think he was a hero.

I think he was trying to do his level best in a place where like he was pushed aside by people like Tony Fauci. The head of the CDC did not actually design or control the pandemic response, which is a stunning thing to realize, but I think that's exactly what happened. And he did his level best to try to make his way, but it didn't work. But isn't that partly because national security and the military kind of took over here and in most countries, that it became, and I still don't know why that happened. It makes me think that they believed that they were under attack from biological weapon or a potential biological weapon with, you know, but there's still, you know, there could still be downstream effects of this virus. You

know, AIDS took a while to do its thing. You know what I mean? There still might be neurological or immunological. They may know that even now. I don't know. But that's the only way that move made sense to me other than pure panic and stupidity, frankly, if not incompetence. I mean, I think you're right that parts of the intelligence community thought that it might be a bioweapon. Certainly, a lot of the intelligence community thought that it was at least an unintentional

leak of something that's quite dangerous. And of course, you can't tell directly from the sequence of a virus, the genetic sequence of virus, exactly the physiological effects that will happen. And so they just assume the worst. And they treat it like a military, I mean, like a lockdown of the entire society. That's not in normal public health plans. Normal public health plans, it looks like the Great Barrensian Declaration. It says protect vulnerable people and don't disrupt society, don't fearmonger. Maybe if you have a bioweapon attack, you would act that way. I just, I don't know. I don't have

classified clearance. I don't have any direct visibility, but it was an extremely unusual thing if you think about it as just a public health intervention. Well, they threw away the pandemic policy, the pandemic planning, and was just completely obfuscated and thrown away. Just completely. And then invented a bunch of things like social distancing and six feet and lockdowns, all these things that had no previous utility and actually had been shown not to be useful or didn't even exist. They just were sort of made up as they went along, as we now know. Okay. So I'm looking at some of the stuff that you put out, I guess on some of its X, some of its brownstone. I want to get all this. There was a quarantine camps planned. Is that true? So that one, I read that, that's Jeffrey Tucker's article. It's interesting.

So it's based on a CDC webpage that they put out during the pandemic. It's not my article. It's Jeffrey Tucker's, right? And I think that the plans were about what to do in humanitarian settings. What they mean by that is at the border where you have refugee camps or something like that. I don't think it was directly envisioned as a population-wide measure um i mean there were places like in

australia for instance uh where they had camps quarantine camps like in west i think western australia or northern uh northern territory or something um where they had quarantine camps and so uh especially if you had covet or you exposed someone with COVID, you'd be driven to this camp. And it looked like a prison facility where you stay there for two, three, four weeks or whatever until you were tested negative sufficient number of times. So it's not that public health in the West didn't do this. I don't think that was implemented in the United States. I'm not sure. It was ambiguous. I went back and read that webpage after I saw Jeffrey Tucker's article and it's still unclear to me the extent to which the plans were

meant for the population at large rather than just those refugee settings but it was a direction yeah it was a direction it was a sinister direction an unthinkable direction yeah off they went

was it you that wrote the no you, you retweeted, I guess, an article about the information factory and how that has all been, what the history of that is. What do you want people to know about that? I mean, that is, I did not understand. This is a confession. Like I already mentioned, I already confessed I was naive before the pandemic.

I didn't understand the history of governments essentially lying to the public, manufacturing consent. I mean, I had read Noam Chomsky's manufacturing consent before. Until I saw it happen before my eyes, during the pandemic, on things that I knew for certain, and yet the picture being painted was so different. I just didn't understand the mechanisms of it

or the desire for governments to actually work in that way. And especially with the news media, normally I would have thought of them, once upon a time, as like a check or a balance on that. But in fact, they served as an amplifier for the powerful rather than check on the powerful. Like their conceit that they afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted is exactly backwards. At least that's the way I viewed it during the pandemic.

Well, that is exactly, oh, the kill man amnesia Caleb's putting up there. But that is exactly the issue that I think made this all different. That the press completely abandoned its customary position of skepticism and facts and reporting about what's going on and why, and took the position of megaphone of one point of view. And if it all kind of, when you look back on it, like, why would they do that? Well, the business has changed and they don't have investigative reporters anymore. But more than anything, it feels like a manifestation of Trump derangement syndrome. They just ran to the other side of the boat if he said something.

He mentioned hydroxychloroquine. Oh my God, that's going to kill you. And that's sort of an example of what they were up to. This is a medication that the same day they learned to pronounce it. They had an opinion about how physicians should be freaking using it.

That should tell you everything you need to know about the excesses of what was going on. And then it amplified during the Biden administration. Yeah, I mean, I think early in a pandemic where there is no treatment at all, you want to have the people who are treating the most COVID patients to give you their wisdom. They may be wrong about it.

I mean, certainly everyone has something that was wrong early in the pandemic. That's normal to be expected. But they shouldn't be demonized for sharing their hypotheses. And that's essentially what happened. I mean, I took it when I was a medical student and when I was working in this rural India to prevent malaria, if given the right dose, it's a safe drug. Why was it demonized early? I don't believe, based on the randomized trials

I've eventually seen, that it works, but I didn't know that then. That's right. But what you did know, what you did know was how safe it was. And so the risk reward was in favor of trying it in case it might work. The very month that all the craziness, they hadn't gone off into ivermectin yet. They were still stuck on hydroxychloroquine.

That month I was doing my MKSAP. You know what that is? Internists do these board reviews every three years. I do them regularly. Yeah, it's called the MKSAP. And I've done them for 30 years. And I happened to be doing my rheumatology MKSAP during this whole period.

And lo and behold, there was a question about whether or not you should maintain a patient with lupus on their hydroxychloroquine during pregnancy. And I went and read the text associated with the question. And it was like, absolutely, this medicine is the most inert medicine you can imagine. So just leave your patients on it during pregnancy. I don't know any other medicine

that has that associated with it. Even Tylenol, people go, oh, be careful. But hydroxychloroquine, maintain it. Don't worry about it. Don't even think about it because it's inert. That was what, I wonder if they took it out of the MKSAP after all the craziness around it for political reasons, not for science reasons because the science was there ahead of time. Yeah. I mean, it's really a shocking inversion of how medicine should be, right?

So the vaccine, which we didn't know the full set of side effects, is recommended to six-month-old babies for whom there's almost no benefit from it and a potential harm. Whereas like relatively safe drugs, if, you know, people went and overdosed on ivermectin because they took the veterinary form of it

because they couldn't go to a doctor. They wanted the drug. It was a relatively safe drug. You were given the right dose. That whole craziness led patients to overdose on something that should be a safe drug because they couldn't get that. I think you're believing the propaganda.

I think you ought to examine that story and see whether it actually happened. Oh, no, no. I actually looked up some of the, there's a paper that was published from like toxicology calls in like Oregon or something. People that they took,

it's not that they took the veterinary dose by itself. That's not, they took a vast overdose. Now imagine if they had a physician to guide them, say, look, here's the right dose. Examine that paper again in retrospect and see how they, if I remember right, I looked at it and there was

exactly one case. And the rest of it was all hysteria whipped up about it. I'll find it and share. If I'm wrong, I'll definitely correct myself. But I'll share. It was one case and I believe,

I can't remember exactly, but my recollection is that he was threatening to take it or something. And he wouldn't even take it. So let's see. Let's see what's actually in that study. But it's written in such a way that you start, if you're not reading it the way you read propaganda, you would believe that this is happening all over the place.

And then the press reported it as ERs lining up with all these overdoses. Did not happen. Did not happen. Yeah. Well, I think the principle I'm trying to get across, maybe I didn't do a good job explaining it, but the principle I'm trying to get across is maybe I didn't do a good job explaining it, but the principle I'm trying to get across is that if you say that certain drugs are off limits

and they're pretty safe, essentially, and people want the thing, it's like a harm reduction idea. Essentially, what you're saying is that you're going to make this forbidden, this drug is forbidden, and they'll find ways to get it, and it'll be unsafe

because they're getting a version of it that's like bad for you. Instead of that normal harm reduction idea, which is at the center of a lot of public health, they decided they were going to say, no, you can't have this drug at all. In fact, doctors will lose their license if they get the drug.

That was a tremendous mistake. And as a result, I think there were, I don't know how many cases, maybe I'm wrong about this, but I do remember seeing a paper, Drew, I'll send it to you if I can find it. But that principle of harm reduction was violated by public health when it came to ivermectin. It absolutely was. They violated many basic principles of public health over and over and over again. And that's

what the movie is about. So I want to take a little break and bring Vanessa Dillon in here who made this film, put you in it. I've watched it. It is, because I have so much outrage as I watch it, it's a pretty sober look at this all. It's nice and it's very specific and very careful and it just makes its case in a very systematic way. And I found myself screaming at the screen, like, people need to see this. But it's such a good movie. I also thought about it. Yeah, it lays it out.

And I thought, oh, if you now add Redfield's book into this, we'll have historical documents about what happened here. And people can start to really examine what went on. So we'll bring Vanessa Dillon in here in just a second. Jay Bhattacharya stays with us and we'll be right back after this. The Wellness Company knows that taking charge of your family's healthcare is a top priority, and that is why they are constantly innovating to deliver the products and services to help you be rationally ready for an emergency. They've added a medical kit for kids to treat over 20 childhood illnesses, nausea, vomiting, allergies, asthma, bowel terror, God forbid,

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Dr. Drew said the best way to quit drinking is by going cold turkey, and he's a doctor. So why would you question doctors? Dr. Drew called me unfixable. And before we bring Vanessa in here and talk about COVID collateral, I hope you're well stocked up on Paleo Valley bone broth and protein sticks because you're going to need a supply for Thanksgiving. Supplement those meat sources and the unflavored grass-fed and finished bone broth. You can add it to soup and gravy to really add some protein kick to it. And for the high-protein side, just as dishes as well.

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and responsibly sourced. High in nutrition, high in nutrition, low in calories, absent guilt. And let us know how you'll be using the bone broth or the meat sticks. As we told you, go to Doctry.com slash contact, select Paleo Valley ideas from the dropdown menu and let us know so we can share them

with the rest of you all out there. Stock up now at Doctry.com slash Paleo Valley for 15% off your first order or 20% off when you subscribe. Also make great stocking stuffers. Oh, that's a good idea. And I want to bring in, in addition to Jay Bhattacharya, as I said, you can follow him on X at Dr. Jay Bhattacharya. We've got Vanessa Dillon. She wants you to go to Collateral COVID on X.

Vanessa is a Emmy-nominated Canadian Screen Award-winning producer of COVID Collateral. Documentary. Her credits include Werner Herzog's Into the Inferno for Netflix. CBC's The Divided Brain, musical brain with Sting, Michael Bublé, and others. Her work has been backed by major broadcasters like Netflix, CBC, Nat Geo. You can follow her, specifically at Vanessa Dillon. Pay attention to how the spelling of her last name, D-Y-L-Y-N.

Vanessa, welcome to the program, and Jay, welcome back. Hi, Dr. Drew. Hi, Dr. Drew. I've got everybody. Pleasure to see you. Thank you for doing this movie. You're Canadian, which fascin. Drew. I got everybody a pleasure to see you thank you for doing this movie you're Canadian which fascinates me I'm guessing the excesses of the Canadian government got you

interested in a project like this? Not at all as a matter of fact there was nothing but hostility from the Canadian landscape when I first pitched this film. And I just became a dog with a bone. So I just happened to finally get a tiny broadcaster in Canada whose commissioning editor happened to be, and this is just the universe moving, he happened to be a former vaccinologist who had worked on the first SARS vaccine. And he knew all about the suppression of science.

And so I finally found my first level of financing in Canada. And so that's how I started. And I was very motivated to make this film because I had been watching people like Jay and Scott Atlas and people like Sinatra Gupta at Oxford and Martin Kildorf at Harvard. And I had been noticing that as a group of highly credentialed scientists, they had been, when they started to speak out against lockdowns, because apparently there had been no scientific basis for lockdown, I noticed that they were demonized not only by their own universities, but also by big tech, by major media, and also by medical institutions such as the NIH. So I thought something is going on here. I just sensed that there was a concerted effort to shut down these credentialed but dissenting views.

So that's what started me on this. And I'm... And you were, sorry. No, I was just going to say I'm very happy to be on here with Jay because he's one of my heroes yeah me too and

Jay I'll bring you in it wasn't just that you were being marginalized as a dissenting view you were being subjected to a devastating takedown, to quote the adversaries in this, devastating takedown. As you look back at that email,

has your view changed? Are you angrier? Are you more shocked? How do you think about that? Well, I mean, it was Francis Collins who wrote those words, which shocked me when I saw them. It was about a year after he wrote the email.

It led to death threats on me and hit pieces and a whole bunch of slander. But I personally, I couldn't forgive him. I think he, as a human being, made a mistake. And from the point of view of NIH director, though, it was an abuse of power on his part. And it's a poor example for our scientific leaders to set that kind of example.

When we disagree with each other, we disagree with each other with data and we change our minds when we are wrong. I mean, those are just normal things in science. And for someone like him, and then, of course course it had this huge impact on the policy we picked. He got his way. He got

the lockdowns he wanted. Schools closed in fall 2020. And I've seen him now essentially on an apology tour. I just feel sad for him now. The apology tour, he goes around, what he says is that, well, I wasn't looking at all of the harm

that these COVID lockdowns were doing to the poor, to the vulnerable children, the working class. And that's just, I mean, I don't understand how you, I mean, I like that he's confessing that he wasn't seeing that. That's a good thing for him to confess. But I don't like that he, he's still justifying saying that the Great Barrington Declaration was somehow wrong. I mean, the whole purpose of the Great Barrington Declaration was to bring—

Because they always go to, you just wanted to let it rip. Just let it rip. That wasn't at all what you were saying. And he is misrepresenting things, and it's disgusting when he does that. You were talking about systematic protection of the vulnerable, period. Not letting it rip. God sakes. And when he says things like, we were only focused on this one thing, we didn't take into account the potential risks of what we were doing. I mean, can you imagine saying that in a malpractice case? Well, I just was focused on this one thing. I had to do something. There would be a criminal

action in addition to a malpractice action for any physician behaving like that. And this was perpetrated on the entire country and then the world. It's a lot. It's a lot to imagine. This is too much. But Vanessa, you want to say something? Yes, I mean, what

Dr. Francis Collins does say in our film, and this is probably the last update on the screen, is that he talks about this public health mindset where their focus was on doing everything to save lives. And he did say that that was at the cost of all of the collateral damage, all of the bankruptcies, all of the mental health. He says, but they had, he actually does does say in that interview that was unfortunate so i think he is yes as as as jay says this is this is paula part of the of the uh so um no harm do no harm what happened to that when they when there's harm afoot it only when the risk reward warrants it and the fact that he is still justifying this and not falling on his sword and apologizing all over the place for the delusional usurpation of his clinical judgment is beyond for me. It's something I can't understand.

And it's okay to say, you know, we got swept into a frenzy. We were frenzied or the military scared us and we believe something horrible was coming. Whatever it is, your mind wasn't working right. Certainly not the way you were trained, and certainly not the way a physician or a scientist should ever, ever behave. Part of that problem, as Dr. Scott Atlas points out in his book, was that when he was appointed to the coronavirus,

and you mentioned this, Jay, that they were not open to data. And what also shocked him was that on the coronavirus task force, there weren't other disciplines present. There weren't the social scientists present, the economists present, who would have been able to work on that risk-benefit ratio of lockdowns. What he saw was simply this single-minded focus on lockdowns. Jay, you want to respond to that? No, I mean, I think that's exactly right. That kind of myopia, the solution to it is exactly what Vanessa just said, like have

a broad range of viewpoints at the table, right? The idea of one small group of, I mean, he's a geneticist. He's not even an epidemiologist. He's a geneticist. He's not even an epidemiologist. He's a geneticist. Like, why would he have the wisdom or expertise to know exactly how to organize all of society? The principle, the basic principle that they used was that we should treat each other as biohazards,

that humans are simply biohazards and nothing else. And it was a predictable failure. And I think if they had had the idea of allowing there to be other voices to speak, not devastating takedowns, but just engagement, critical engagement, that would have been, we'd have had a much better outcome from the pandemic.

Yeah, it's really a sad, sad chapter. Well, how do you go back from that, Drew? I mean, how do you, like once you've made that tremendous error, and you know it's going to be, history's going to judge you on that, right? You were in charge of the NIH. You were in charge

of the NIAID at the time when this crisis happened, and you made this tremendous mistake. You may even, let's just go further, they may even have caused the pandemic. And that's what Bob Redfield says. I mean, supported the research that caused the pandemic. I mean, I don't know.

I mean, I don't know. I hope I'm never in that position, but if I am- Yeah, it's horrible. I would want to, I think I would just- It's horrible. But I would consult with an attorney to see what I should do, you know, to make a, to create real apology and real assessment of where we went wrong. And to make an amends and the amends, you know, that means correcting things that were in place or were done in order to prevent this happening again. I mean, my goodness, if you knew that you'd made these horrible mistakes and you didn't

do something to correct it, isn't that even making your crimes that much worse? Yeah. I mean, I think that... Oh, go ahead, Vanessa. Well, I was just going to say, and this is a bit of a cynical comment. My understanding is that right from 2020, that people in charge knew that this was not a virus that was of any danger to normal, young, healthy people. As a matter of fact, Dr. Jay Varma,

who was the COVID lockdown czar in New York, was recently outed as having sex parties at the height of the pandemic. So this is, I mean, he certainly was not interested in social distancing. But I think what this does show is that his behavior reveals the knowledge that they had back in 2020, that this was not a danger to the average young adult. And yet, and yet, they got everyone down and they kept, and in my mind, one of the greatest sins was that they kept kids out of school for almost up to years. Yes.

Well, in this state, we did two years. And then we, on top of that, in this town, we had a mayor that went on television every night and kept saying, you must shelter in place. You imagine you're nine years old hearing that if you do not shelter in place, you're going to kill your family. It's just beyond. Yeah, there's the report on those parties. But we had our own czar here in California. It was our governor. And he also didn't believe it, clearly, because he went out to dinner at a fancy restaurant.

So to the extent to which he believed it and then went to the Rams Super Bowl and didn't wear a mask then, you know, whatever. But I'm remembering when Dr. Fauci, he was talking about humans being biohazards. Do you remember him saying we would never shake hands again? I feel like people forget that.

That to me, when he said it, I thought, oh, this is a bottom of some type. History is going to be very, very unkind to this. And then now we have, I don't know, we have continued use of talismans. Now people that are resisting are wearing blue bracelets as opposed to blue masks over their face. What's next for us? Vanessa, did you think in terms of how to correct all this and what we've done and what we might do in the future? Or did you get solutions woven into the stories you tell?

As a lay person, I would not think of solutions per se, but I think the one thing that we can ask as citizens is we can ask that our leaders be made of far better stuff. I think we need to demand truth. We need to demand data. We need to demand scientific accuracy from our institutions, from our medical leaders, and from our media. I mean, we've all been soured on mainstream media. But I think, I mean, I think just in terms of the media, I think there's some hope there when Jeff Bezos says recently that in the study that came out about trust, which professions are the most trustworthy, he says that journalists are right at the bottom. And he wrote to his staff at the Washington Post, he said, something isn't working. People don't trust us. So at least there's some recognition that there's a problem. And I think this idea of demanding better leadership has got to go right down to the school system, because

this is where a certain type of indoctrination is taking place. And this is where we need to demand. We need to demand facts. We need to demand respect for science. Because as Scott Atlas says in our film, that science is important because if you don't have correct science, people die. And people did die. That's right.

That's right. Exactly right. And, you know, but again, Jay and I were talking earlier that facts are old white man things. That's something that old white men, consensus and political and subjective, that's way more important. I was studying Michel Foucault over the weekend.

Oh my God. I always knew his ideas were bad, but when you really look at that poor, poor guy and how ill he was psychiatrically and this whole thing was an acting out. Everything he put upon us that created post-structuralism was Michel Foucault's acting out. I felt terrible for him,

but he should not have been listened to from the beginning. And then post-structuralism isn't listened to in its country of origin, in fact. The French are bewildered why we allowed poststructuralism to take hold in this country. These guys from almost 100 years ago, why are you interested in them? They have no relevance. They've been completely sidelined. It's just a brief aberration in the history of philosophy but all right but back to leadership jay you feel i feel like you want to say something go ahead no i actually there's i actually did like one book of fucos but maybe we can like defend this later uh like the he wrote this book called the birth of the clinic which i read as a early as a medical

student which is worth every doctor's uh it makes, it's a little humbling actually. Like it makes, it puts the doctor's, he calls it the gaze, the doctor's vision of how they view patients. He puts it in this like historical context that I think every doctor should see. The broader view, I don't think I can defend, but that book, I think it'd be fun

to have a little discussion over. So do you know why he wrote that book? No, I don't think I can defend, but that book, I think it'd be fun to have a little discussion over. So do you know why he wrote that book? No, I don't. He was a psychiatric patient in a locked facility and he didn't enjoy it. And so, okay, there's the acting out stuff. And by the way, this man suffered a lot and he was treated unjustly.

He was a gay man who was completely marginalized in his homosexuality, and it was really a horrific story. But it's a sociological story, not a medical story, and it got medicalized in the history of philosophy. Anyway, we'll talk about that later. But leadership, you know, I agree with what Vanessa is saying. I want to, I'll just throw a couple of historical names out and their behavior and wonder, is that the kind of leadership we need?

I mean, whether it's Churchill or de Gaulle or Bonaparte or Napoleon III, whatever it might be. These guys did not say shelter in place. They said, we can get through this. We can survive. We can correct this. Did not, you need a safe space to protect yourself. And I will just remind everybody that when it comes to treating anxiety disorders or phobias, the treatment is exposure, not avoid the stimulus. It's exposure to the stimulus.

That's how you make healthy, strong people. You hide people in a safe space, they are going to be disabled. And why would they want that? And why do we have leaders advocating for that? But Jay, you first, then Vanessa. I mean, I think the idea that we could essentially lock ourselves away, essentially treat humans as if they were like lab rats. If you want to keep lab rats from infecting each other, you just put them in cages far away from each other. That's the premise of the lockdown.

It seems so intuitive that it would work. The problem is that intuition is just wrong. Human societies are not like rat cages, right? Human societies are very complicated things. And the idea of isolation being healthy, you're absolutely right, Dr. Drew. I mean, it's crazy to think that isolation is healthy. It's one of the worst things you can do to human beings is to isolate them. And to have that as the epitome of good health policy

for a full two years, it makes no sense. And it's not just psychiatric health, it's infectious disease health. We need exposure. That's how we build immunity. That's not hiding from peanuts and then getting a peanut allergy.

Vanessa, your thoughts. Yes, I mean, I think we also need exposure to different ideas instead of protecting people, instead of all of the trigger warnings, instead of turning people into snowflakes. We've got to turn people into robust citizens, people who question, people who have critical thinking skills. I think we've really been mollycoddling students in our... Well, I mean, there was, you know, the Coddling of the American Mind was put out now how many years ago? You know, and there've been updates on that. But let's do this.

Let's play, Caleb, the little clip we have of the movie. I'll let you both comment on it, and then we'll kind of wrap things up. And I've got something I want to say at the very, very end. I've got a quote I want to read to you. I promised I would read that. And so once I let them go, we'll hear a little Thomas Paine to try to inspire you guys. But here's the movie

COVID Collateral. Locking down is not only the only tool, it's the best tool. COVID Collateral. This is moving very fast. The federal government was regularly censoring dissenting opinions. They wanted to create an illusion of consensus. This hurt a lot of people. Suddenly just boom. You're fired and no explanation. I'm giving you 90 days notice of termination between the health authority and yourself. And there you go. I'm reading. I don't know how you on the DL sent me the article from from the where was it from?

Journal of Clinical Toxicology, but you got it to me. I was trying to read it really quickly during the tape. But I'll let you, Jake, I don't know how you did that. I didn't see you send it off to me, but it's in my hands. This is the ivermectin overdose, and it does look different than I remember it very definitely. So, Jake,

comments on the movie, and then Vanessa. It's a brilliant movie. It's an absolutely brilliant, even though I'm in it, it's a brilliant movie. It's an absolutely brilliant. Even though I'm in it, it's a brilliant movie. So that's how good it is. Some of the people that you saw on the screen there were Canadian doctors that faced tremendous persecution because they spoke up against lockdowns. The persecution, it happened in the United States, but it was, I think, even worse against dissenters in Canada.

And the story it tells is absolutely, I mean, there's this one story where I was in tears about this boy, this teenage boy who had meningitis, bacterial meningitis.

They took, the parents took their kid to the ER they couldn't be with him because of the COVID protocols they sent him home, misdiagnosed came back second time and eventually dies because they were so scared of COVID they couldn't see bacterial meningitis

a preventable cause of death for a child. I mean, the emotional impact of the movie is incredible. And the basic argument that it was the censorship and the sort of like creation of this, like illusion of consensus that was really the root cause. It's a very powerful message. I encourage anyone listening to watch this movie. I totally agree.

And before you go, Vanessa, and again, the behavior of our peers during COVID was just beyond. That's a whole other conversation for us. But Vanessa, where can they see it and what do you want to say about it? So they can see it at covidcollateral.com. And what I'd like to say about it is that you just set up the premise of the film, which is it's a forensic dissection of what happened to us during the COVID period. And it's really about the suppression of science, what we need to know about what happened to us.

And it's the suppression of science told through the scientists and the things that really affected me during the entire COVID period was that we condemned people to die alone. And we prevented terminal patients, elderly patients in their last hours from seeing their families. No kisses, no hand holding nothing and that is that is what stays with with with me about this whole period and understand understand though there is a group now advocating that families uh excommunicate people that voted Republican or voted for Trump with the exact same intent. Exact same intent. And these cultish nuts need to be called out for the amazing harm they are doing. Fine.

Different. Different. You cannot like what your family did, but to, it's cults that separate families. Cults do that. It's a caste system, Drew. It's a, basically, there's a distinction between clean and unclean. And Trump voters are unclean, unvaccinated are unclean, unmasked are unclean. If you got COVID or not careful, you're unclean if you got coveted or not careful you're unclean um i mean you know i think that

the idea that public health contributed to that that that sort of social poison of this idea that they're unclean that we must shun um it just shocks i mean this is a field that i've been in and worked in for decades and that the idea that we contributed to that uh just grieves me. Yeah. Grief is a, grief is I think a healthy grief and outrage. Vanessa, last words. This as, as, as you said, Dr. Drew, this is a very sober look at what happened. It doesn't take size. What it does, it simply, it simply looked at what happened through the suppression of science using two storylines, the lockdowns and the suppression of the lab leak theory. And it's been layered up and down. Okay.

Thank you, guys. Appreciate the appearance here today with me. I've noticed I'm getting a little more upset as I talk about this material. Maybe we're more free to speak our mind these days, which I think is a good thing. It means that free speech is alive and well, and we can do it without fear of retribution and cancellation and all that nonsense. But Vanessa, thank you for the film. Jay, thank you for appearing in the film. And Jay, always thank you for what you've done all throughout this pandemic. And hope to see you again soon, both of you.

Thanks. Thank you for having me on the show. You got it. Bye-bye. Thank you. Whatever happened to that Dr. Drew strikes back? Okay, yeah. Well, we better bring it out because I'm feeling like, yeah, more that way.

It's interesting. I get it when I talk to Jay because he is so much the poster child for me of the excesses of this thing. I get mad on his behalf. I get mad what they did to him. And then I get mad about how people didn't practice medicine and how the medical thinking was adulterated. I just start escalating when I'm thinking about what happened to him. So there we are. He's such a good guy. Yes, indeed. I'm watching you guys on the Rumble Rants. I'm looking over on the restream.

Susan, anything going on over there? Thank you, KK. I'm not going to lie. I was looking for a guest for my show on Thursday. Okay, you weren't watching the restream. If you want to be a guest on my show, go to callingoutatdoctordrew.com. Okay, and then we have the upcoming guest list, Caleb.

We have quite a list. But I was listening. Okay, good, good. That's Caleb. We have quite a list. But I was listening. Okay. Good, good. That's fine. We have a whole bunch of stuff coming up. Tyler Fisher in here tomorrow. Bobbi Ann Cox is fighting the good fight.

Is she coming on too? Yep. Okay. That was my idea. Rami Adelike, CJ Hopkins. You're calling out. But is she coming on with Tyler? No, they're separating.

Oh, I want them together. Yeah, I know. We can't get into that, it're separating. Oh, I wanted them together. Yeah, I know. We can't get into that, it turns out. Oh, we can't? Mm-mm. Lara Logan's finally coming in. Now, Dr. Claire Craig, you heard some of the stuff that Dr. Bhattacharya, I thought she was on the list. She's the one that first alerted us to this story of the unclean and how that is such a historically relevant trope and how it affects human societies

throughout time. Andrew Grohl is coming back with Wilkinson. Should be interesting. Courtney Moorhead-Holliker. I put a whole bunch of people in Emily Barsh's ear, including some French politicians who've been very interesting in how they see what's happening over here. And if they speak English, which I don't know, I'd love to be able to speak with them. But Claire Craig- Maybe I could translate. No, I don't think that would work.

This one guy is very interesting, the way he puts stuff. Just listening to him today, they have this thing called the grand jury, and he was appearing in front of his panel, and he was destroying them sort of in terms of interpreting what happened to us, what's going on here, and he was very, very astute.

So he felt like he must speak English because he had such a deep understanding of where we were at. Let me, I want to read for everybody before we leave, let me see if to read for everybody before we leave let me see if I can find it a quote by Thomas Paine because it's

come across my radar a few times in the last few days and I keep hearing it and seeing it because it's so relevant to so much of what's been going on. It's obviously not as acute as a Revolutionary War. And that's when he was writing these words.

It was really in response to George Washington's defeat in Manhattan and heading over to, probably in the Delaware, I guess it was, and going over to New Jersey. I guess it was a going over New Jersey. I guess it was defeating New Jersey. But here are, this is Thomas Paine, who did not end up in a great place in his life, but at the time his words were extremely helpful. And you've heard the opening words, but you may not have heard this entire quote,

and that's why I'm bringing it. These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, through this crisis, shrink from the service of their country, but he that stands it now deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered, yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly. It is dearness only that gives us everything its value. So as we slog our way through all this, you can think of those words.

Thomas Payne, P-A-Y-N-E. Let me just check in with you guys. See what you think of it over on the Rumble Rants. Okay, you're not really reacting to it, so fine. There we go. Stephanie. Oh, there's a leg. Stephanie says, Thomas Paine has been a hero of mine for over two decades.

And where do you find the movie? The movie is at covidcollateral.com. That's the COVID. And Tom Cigar says, wait, I'm waiting, Tom. What's going on? Strength and honor. Yes, of course, that's the COVID. And Tom Cigar says, wait, I'm waiting, Tom. What's going on? Strength and honor. Yes, of course, that's part of it too. Okay.

Caleb, anything on your front? Did anything occur to you today in what you saw? I wanted to show the artwork that we have coming up for Susan's show. If I can, wait. Oh, it disappeared. I have it though, Susan. Oh, shoot. What?

Wait, I had it. What is that about? It's her upcoming show with the... We're doing a show... For near-death experiences. It's going to be Thursday. Here it is. Oh, interesting.

We're doing a show on near-death experiences with... Oh, interesting. Okay, so guess who made that for me? Jordan. Jordan, yeah. I was going to say, that looks like his AI stuff. That's fascinating.

Yeah, he likes it. He likes doing AI art. He's very good at it. So we're doing a show on near-death experiences with Jim Bruton. He's a guy who had a near-death experience,

very elaborate, and Dr. Kelly Victory, as well as Andrew Anderson. So we're going to talk about what happens when you go into a coma and you know what we see and where you know it takes us and then we're also going to give somebody a psychic greeting so if you want to be on the show that's when thursday at three yes specific and calling out at drdrew.com send me a message tell me your story what you want to talk about. Appreciate you all being here. We'll see you tomorrow at 3 o'clock with Tyler Fisher, who's a riot,

and Bobbie Ann Cox, who's really interesting and doing some great legal work. That's where a lot of the action is going to be in the next few years. So pay attention. We'll see you tomorrow at 3 o'clock Pacific time. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine

here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at drdrew.com slash help.