Ask Dr. Drew - Brianna Wu: Trans Democrat Is Pro Free Speech, Anti MMIWG2SLGBTQQIA+ "Genderqueer Nonsense" & Kid Transitions w/ Viva Frei & Brad Polumbo — Ask Dr Drew – Ep 609

Episode Date: April 12, 2026

Progressive gender ideology has gone so far off the rails, even transgender activists are drawing the line – and getting canceled by their own community. Former congressional candidate Brianna Wu is a transgender woman — but not part of the MMIWG2SLGBTQQIA+ cult. For years, she has begged her own side to wake up and face the facts: if they don’t rein in their loudest members and work to coexist among people who frequently misunderstand the facts about transgenderism, their entire community risks the loss of the protections and empathy they’ve gained. Wu warns that Liberals redefining the trans community to include fetishists, pushing youth transition on autistic children, and putting biological men in women’s sports, are “hurting people” and destroying legitimate healthcare. Brianna Wu joins Dr. Drew to discuss why she refuses to be silent about the biological realities of being trans. Journalist Brad Polumbo breaks down the recent SCOTUS decision regarding “conversion therapy” and his own experience being kicked off a gay soccer team for speaking about male / female biological differences. Attorney Viva Frei exposes the bizarre reality of Canada’s new “equity ID cards” and the ongoing battle for free speech and civil liberties. Brianna Wu is an American video game developer, computer programmer, and self-described “transsexual woman.” She co-founded Giant Spacekat, a Boston-based video game studio. Follow at https://x.com/briannawu David Freiheit, known as Viva Frei, is an attorney and political commentator. He hosts the Viva Frei Show on Rumble and Locals and cohosts Viva & Barnes Live with attorney Robert Barnes. Follow at https://x.com/TheVivaFrei Brad Polumbo is a journalist and host of the Brad vs Everyone podcast. He is a contributor to the DC Examiner and a Blankley Fellow at the Steamboat Institute. Follow at https://x.com/brad_polumbo 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 • STRONG CELL – If you want to feel more like your younger self, go to https://strongcell.com/ and use code DREW for 20% off. • AUGUSTA PRECIOUS METALS – Thousands of Americans are moving portions of their retirement into physical gold & silver. Learn more in this 3-minute report from our friends at Augusta Precious Metals: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/gold⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or text DREW to 35052 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠• FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Executive Producers • Kaleb Nation - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Susan Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/firstladyoflove⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Content Producer • Emily Barsh - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/emilytvproducer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Hosted By • Dr. Drew Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/drdrew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A lot to get into today. Viva Fry shows up in the second segment, but first is Breonna Wu. She's an American video game developer, computer programmer, described herself as a transsexual woman. She founded or co-founded Giant Space Cat, a Boston-based video game studio. And she ran for U.S. Congress in Massachusetts, and she's got a lot on this topic, having it been a very personal matter for her. And later on in the show, Brad Palumbo comes in here, journalist, Brad versus Everyone podcast. and a reminder on Viva Frye, by the way. He has a new podcast with Mark Rubeer. He'll tell us about that.

It's movie reviews. He wanted to get away from all the negativity and politics. And so he's doing that for both their souls. So, all right, first up, we've got a lot to get into with Breonna Bu. Right after this. Our laws, as it pertain to substances, are draconian and bizarre. The psychopaths start this, he was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction.

Fentanyl and heroin. ridiculous I'm a doctor for a I say where the hell you think I learned that? I'm just saying you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real.

We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. You have trouble, you can't stop, and you might help stop it. I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. Where are my gloves?

Come on, heat. Winter is hard, but your groceries don't have to be. This winter, stay warm. Tap the banner to order your groceries online at voila.ca. Enjoy in-store prices without leaving your home. You'll find the same regular prices online as in-store. Many promotions are available both in-store and online, though some may vary. Brianna-W-W. You can follow her on X-B-R-I-A-N-N-A-W-U.

Instagram is at Brianna U. Brianna Wu says, S-A-Y-S-Threads, Brianna Wu says, Facebook, Briano SpaceCat, K-A-T. Brianna, welcome to the program. It's so good to see you. You know, I've done a lot of media in my career.

I've never done media with someone I had a crush on in the 90s, so this is a big deal for me. Wow, how fun. That's fun for me, so nice to meet you. Love Line was huge. Love Line was so huge for our generation because no one, I want to just let people know, like in the 90s, we barely had any conversation about sexuality or anything. And here comes Dr. Drew on Real World. This is like the same era that Real World is out. We're finally talking about AIDS and gay people. And he has a show talking honestly about birth control, about sex, about homosexuality. And for me, about transsexual issues. It was really, really important for me and a lot of women of my generation. So thank you for that. Well, I appreciate it because I'll tell you what, I was mortified. I went on a radio show one night

and was talking to young people. They'd never heard of HIV and AIDS. Their health problems were all about drugs and alcohol and horrible choices and their relationships and their reproductive health. Teen pregnancy, you may remember, was out of control at the time. STIs were out of control, but AIDS was coming on strong. And that was a thing that mortified me more than anything. And as a young physician, I spent a lot of time working on AIDS and AIDS patients. And we're the last remaining witnesses to the horrible loss of that period. These wonderful men were just being just, it was the most horrible thing you can imagine. And there's no one, very few people around to tell the tale anymore.

So, and I think this is a good segue. Because one of my strongest memories from Loveline is you would have people call in. And back then, this is when we still had the standards of care. and people would call in and they would be fetishistic cross-dressers. And you and Adam Carolla would joke about it, but you would give them honest health information about their sexuality. And sometimes people that were transsexuals would come in and you'd give honest medical advice about that.

And I feel very strongly that something that's happened in the 30 years since is we've merged these two categories. We've flattened out all the differences in these categories and we are getting people really extreme treatment that is not serving them. So I'm sure you saw the study out of Finland a couple days ago. Did you see that data? I did. I did.

And I actually, well, you tell me your take on it. It made me reflective on a few things. And I think you'll like this. So go ahead. What were your thoughts on that? Well, so I do want to say there have been some questions. credible concerns brought up about this study. I'm not sure if someone has at any point, like talks to a psychiatrist two years after they've transitioned. I'm not sure that's good

evidence that they have serious comorbidities have not been addressed by medical transition. I think there are a lot of problems with this. But this study aside, I think anyone can look at the cohort of trans people, which is radically expanded. since it was 30 years ago and can see they're not doing well. Anyone with a Twitter account can see trans people are not doing well overall. So I have no doubt that directionally there's a lot of truth in this study. Right. That's sort of my take too.

But unfortunately, people are going to use it a little bit as a cudgel, I think. And so here are my thoughts is that you're pointing out exactly where my head's at, which is the category has become, it's no longer a doctorate. diagnostic category, right? It's a lot of different things. And in my world, our job is to find, to make a accurate diagnosis and determine the right patient or the right treatment. And I would argue, you can tell, I don't know what's in your mind, but I would argue that you had good care, you found the right treatment for you, and took the care accordingly. And unfortunately, I don't know what age you took it or anything, but unfortunately, I think that study is going to be used to say nobody gets treatment in adolescence. And that's not true. That will miss a whole category of people that could be greatly benefited from it.

I mean, obviously, I agree with that. But the problem is you have this progressive political project that is expanded, expanded, expanded, expanded. You mentioned this study. One of the things that study shows, I believe it's 79% of that cohort was actual natal females. This is a lot of. This has changed so radically that when I transitioned, in the 90s, we did one study that natal females that wanted to transition to men, we estimated it as about 1 in 100,000 back then, and actual transsexuals only being about 1 in 30,000. There's not a parent in America today that isn't looking at their child's class and there are people identifying as non-binary, all this other stuff. It's expanded so much. And the problem is we're prescribing for those people the thing that worked for me.

And what worked for me was fantastic. Estrogen cured my mental issues like that. It made my addictive issues go away. It really, really worked out well for me. But it is very powerful medicine, and this is not for everyone. Clinicians have got to be able to sort these histories out. The truth is, someone with the history of fetishistic cross-stress, doing that for erotic purposes.

That is a signal if they're actually a transsexual, right? Someone identifying as a non-binary if they're a natal female as a teenager, we know for a fact these identities are not very durable. And the problem is clinicians cannot say no. Right. And this is the issue. There was a little clip of you prior to coming into this conversation where you were talking about capture.

And so there's this capture on one. one hand where there is true believers which are, I would argue, abandoning their important ethics of do no harm in the name of something that they've been captured by. And they stopped thinking at the point of someone being concerned about these issues, as opposed to, yes, let's affirm it and let's do careful workup and determine what combination and what combination, if any, of treatments would be appropriate for this individual, with these comorbidities, this diagnostic situation. And it's complicated.

And to take one treatment for everybody with all these different complicated comorbidities and concerning complicated personal and psychological interpersonal issues, that's wild to me. I've never seen anything like it. I 100% agree. And the thing is these progressive clinicians. And to be clear, I'm a. registered Democrat. I work for the Democratic Party. I want Democrats to win. But at the same time,

you look at these progressive clinicians, and there's so much effort to flatten this that we cannot even ask questions and dig deeply into things that are really big signals. Here's what. Does the patient seek to get vaginoplasty, which turns a penis into basically a functional vagina? This is a really strong signal. What is your age of? onset. Are you attracted to men? Are you attracted to women? Are you attracted to both? Do you have like a comorbidity like autism? And that's not to say you can't transition if you're sexually into women or you have autism, but it is a signal and a good clinician that was really familiar with the different populations. They signal they could use to explore various things. And we have

punished people that are interested in asking those questions. and evaluating. And unfortunately, there's a growing population of people who are in pain now because of some misadventures. Caleb, I know you've got a video handy. I don't know if it's going around here in California where one of our state assembly members was standing in front of a person. I don't know how she or she identified describing their tale of.

of pain. And he seems sort of, I mean, it seems uncomfortable, but he seems nonplussed. Caleb, do you have that? When I was young, I was a feminine child, and I discovered trans influencers online. They said change your body and your life gets better, don't, and it gets worse. Or as my doctors told my mom, I would commit suicide. The medical and mental health providers didn't bother to ask why I felt the way I did. They poisoned my body with blockers and hormones arresting my.

puberty and messing with my development. The result, I'm a 23-year-old gay man who's never had an orgasm and may never experience one. Let that sink in. I was rendered and orgasmic because once you say you could be trans, that's it. Full stop. No exploration as to why it is allowed, even if you are a struggling kid. The former president of W-path, Dr. Marcy Bowers, a California surgeon who had performed the surgery for Jazz Jennings at 17 admitted on video that puberty blockers followed by cross-sex hormones results in no orgasms and stunted genitals. SB 934 guarantees that more people will end up like me, the walking but wounded. I could have been spared all of this if any of my therapist would have explored why I felt dysphoric, but they never did. So that's sort of the case you're making,

is if they just took a beat and did their job, as I see it. And by the way, again, I'm super clear that for some people, and this unfortunately is people are going to hate me for this position too. Adolescent treatment, if you start freaking out about your puberty as a male and it really, you have severe dysphoria because of it. You need hormones. You need help if you're properly diagnosed. That's the right time to do it if you want to intervene.

Yeah. I do want to say with this individual, I want to be really clear at the start. We are over-medicalizing tons of children that do not need to be on this. The standards are way too low. So I want to just say where I'm coming from. But with this particular clip, I don't find this particular person credible for multiple reasons. First, he has not released his medical records. Secondly, if you look at pictures of him, he sure looks like he underwent male puberty.

and he's kind of giving a story that's like the ultimate anti-trans activist story. So I would find this a lot more credible if he released his medical records. I personally do not believe him. But that aside, I think there are clearly cases out there of people being overdiagnosed and pushed into this. And here's the truth. Most of those cases are coming from natal females. They are the overwhelming majority of detransitioners. And I can tell you as a transsexual woman, if I had a daughter come to me and say, I am a boy, I really cannot think of a circumstance where I would let her get on testosterone before she turned 18 because those detransition rates are so terrifying.

And testosterone has this added phenomenon, which is an antidepressant. And it's a euphoria agenda to some degree. And so people get on it, they feel good. Guess what? Antibolic steroids feel good. Enterchanic steroids feel good. So, well, what do we do? What's your, do you have solutions to this?

I, my part is always the role my profession is playing in this. And I'm seeing the shortcomings and it mortifies me. And they're hurting people and that troubles me. What do you say? So I have some very technical answers on this. So the first thing is W-Path came from. It's the standards of care that they used to diagnosis. When I transitioned back in 2003, 2004, about, we had a non-political version of this.

And the way it was called the Standards of Care, in every step built on other steps. So if I wanted to get hormones, I couldn't go to Planned Parenthood and signed a waiver. I had to go do three months of therapy. And then if I did three months of therapy and I had no more comorbidities and no complicating factors and the therapist felt comfortable with it, then I could take it to a doctor. Then I could get on hormones. Then I could start living as a woman. Then we could think about surgery. Then we could think about vaginoplasty with other experts. There was a, it was like a pathway that you go down to teach you how to integrate as a woman in society. This was a great system because it made me go get therapy and really think about that. Progressives have entirely dismantled this.

It does not exist in the same way anymore. And the most troubling part of it is it's been politically hijack. The DSM-5 changed gender identity disorder to literally a system where you can just create your own gender. We have no clinical diagnosis for this. We have no proof. It makes people's mental health better. we cannot define these people as a category, but it's right there in the DSM that now you don't have to want to be a man or a woman.

You can just create your own gender. So I feel so strongly. We have got to roll back the clinical standards to when they were in a good state. The exact same thing we do in software when we issue code that is buggy in a crash issue system. We need to go back to the SOC6 and we need to go back to the DSM-4. definition of gender dysphoria and get all these politics out of it. There's zero evidence. It makes people healthier. Well, one of the most astonished, I think that's a very sound recommendation, but one of the most astonishing things you said is a clinical pathway based on clinical

science has a political overtone or has been captured by politics. That is, if you told me that 10 years ago, I would have thought, oh, Brianna, come on, too much. You're reading too much in here. But I know it to be true now. I know it to be true. And it's astonishing to me that medicine or even psychology, psychological services, though, are a little more vulnerable. But any of those are affected by ambient political anything. Forget ideology. Any politics of any type shouldn't be involved in science any more than the freaking Spanish Inquisition should be involved in science.

That's exactly right. And the whole problem here is the people that are pushing so hard for us to dismantle all medical safeguarding are the people that the therapists need to put the hardest breaks on. And I'm sorry that this is a little explicit, but it's not the normal transsexual women

that want to get surgery and get on with life. It's the more fetishistic end of the crowd. It's the extremely political, neurotic end of the crowd. And I have to tell you, these are the cases that doctors and clinicians are getting involved and they're going, hold on, you've got a mood disorder, you've got an addictive disorder, you've got autism. You're not handling this correctly. It looks like you've got, this is actually a fetish. Those breaks were put on with those people, and their political solution was to say, oh, trans women can't get health care. Well, if I cleared all of those steps easily in Mississippi 22 years ago,

I really think someone today can go find a doctor if they actually have gender dysphoria and talk to them for three months. That seems utterly reasonable to me. And by the way, we're not excluding practitioners who may lean towards transitioning, as long as they're following the necessary approach. appropriate clinical pathways. Bring them in. That'd be fine. Hey, listen, I've taken a break. When we come back, I want to talk to a caller and I want to talk to you about addiction. All right? Let's do it. All right. After the break.

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And Brianna, I want to take a call and then we'll talk a little celebrity rehab. We'll go there, okay? Sounds good. Okay, here is John, and John has a story that is, I find disturbing. But Johnny there? I'm here, Dr. Drew. How are you? Good. You're on with Brianna-Bu.

tell us what happened so in 2021 when rachel levin was appointed assistant secretary of help um i had shared on my personal facebook page uh uh something about you know her being appointed and then you know i made the you know personal political commentary that maybe it's not the best idea for someone with a mental illness who maybe is not in the best physical health to be the new assistant secretary of health. And what happened after that is the American Board of Dermatology, I'm a board certified dermatologist and Mose surgeon. They actually convened a meeting of their body that looks at taking action against

your board certification because a true. transgender activist reported me and my Facebook post on my personal page to them. And then, you know, basically became that, became aware that they were, they couldn't do anything to my certification at the time because they didn't have a bylaw to allow them to take action on social media. But since then, multiple specialty boards through the American Board of Medical Specialties have put professionalism, clauses into your certifications that do allow them to monitor and potentially take your board certification away if you make free speech that is contrary to whatever they deem appropriate.

Interesting, Brad, do you have any comment about that? I'm sorry, John, you went through that. Yeah, I'm also sorry for that. And I want to, I'm really genuinely sorry. I have two thoughts on I think you are, you've really tapped into something, which is the transgender activists have tended to, frankly, manage their neurosis by trying to shut people up into cancel speech. And I think what you've run into is a really good example of this. And I think it's stopping clinicians from being able to ask questions. I actually have a really good friend of mine that was actually fired from her job as a sex educator to school a few weeks ago because she retweeted me. talking about how dangerous gender ideology is for actual transsexuals. So I really want to say this playbook of trying to stop people from asking questions is stopping trans women from getting health care.

The second part of this I want to say is just look at your question technically. Like, am I mentally ill right now? Does Rachel Levine have mental illness? For me, right now, sitting here, I don't classify. I don't qualify for the DSM diagnosis of gender, dysphoria anymore. My experience of myself is entirely in line with my body. As I go through life, I'm gendered correctly. I feel great. And I don't feel a clinical level of distress about that anymore. And I feel like in this rush to correctly point out that gender dysphoria is in mental illness, I think sometimes we forget that there's a treatment for it that does work for some people. And that's gender transition.

Right. Well, now we've kind of open to a complicated area because there may be other conditions within need for gender affirming care that aren't specifically transsexual, right? This is a treatment and it may be beneficial in lots of different situations. But we do need to get our diagnostic categories together. We don't have a good way of assessing these different categories. and who would benefit, who wouldn't benefit, who's likely to be harmed by this, who's not. It's just everybody gets the same. And that's what I'm concerned about. That's what I'm concerned about. On a very technical level,

if you have someone that's a fetishistic cross-dresser, by the way, outnumber actual trans women by between three for every one of us or 10 to every one of us. This is actually a very common thing. The correct way to deal with this psychologically is to help them accept themselves. We used to call this dual role.

transvestism, where they would have an eroticized female self and then a male self that they actually enjoyed. And the goal of therapy was to help them feel less stigma and to feel comfortable about this. Today, the treatment that they're getting is let's get you on antigens and turn your fantasy into real life. Well, this doesn't help for a lot of different reasons because, you know, the nature of the behavior is not going to actually live as a woman because they enjoy being men. They enjoy having penises. They're sexually attracted to women. You know, if you put them on these drugs, they actually have their mental health worsen. And this is a really good example out in trying to be kind to these people. We're actually not getting them the health care that

they need. There is a lot of toxic empathy in the world. I'm seeing it with addiction all the time, which with the remaining minutes I have with you, let's talk about that. You said celebrity rehab helped you. Yeah. I love this show. Before I transitioned, I had a poly addiction. I was doing literally every drug I could get my hands on. I crashed out. I went to the pet program and Haddusburg, Mississippi, which is the same program. Tiger Woods went to for his sex addiction. And I love this show. I think it's really inspirational watching people face their inner demons and kind of disassemble this maladaptive behavior that causes us to justify these things that will ruin your life. I think it was a great show and I think he did a great job. Thank you. It was a time when

we were also fighting the excessive opiate prescribing, the opioid epidemic so-called. And my peers, again, were giving pain medicines to everybody. It's the same exact thing as what we're dealing with here. Everybody got the same thing, 60 Vicodin, 120 Vicodin, just because they said, I twisted my ankle, my back hurts a little bit. And that was deadly for my patients, deadly. And they were being killed just at an incredible level. So yeah, that was a time when if people didn't do well, that's usually the reason why. And it wasn't until they started putting doctors in prison or overprescribing that all of a sudden the whole thing stopped. Just one day, Boom stopped.

And they went, oh, maybe this isn't the way. Oh, maybe. Oh, maybe. Oh. After, and by the way, the 10 years that, or 15 years that had gone on out of control, I was sanctioned by the board, the Department of Mental Health, the state medical side, my own hospital administration. Same playbook as what you're dealing with now. And it is, and there's no, I'm sorry, there's no nothing at the end of it.

Trust me, it just moves on. it's interesting. I heard the Germans after the end of World War II just moved on. They didn't talk about it. They didn't think about it. They just, well, that happened and they moved on. It's the subsequent generations. And they look back and go, what the hell was that?

And in medicine, it happens an awful lot. COVID is going to be another one of those examples. I couldn't agree with you more. I think with addiction, there's no way to get an addict to get better if you can't get them to really think about their behavior critically, right? And people, I always found interesting people would get clips of your show and paint you about to be a monster. And it's like, no, you're trying to make people understand these behaviors that they have are not serving them. You have to make them like face these excuses that all addicts have that, oh, I'm fine. I am unlimited

in this behavior and everyone else is limited because that's the only way to get better. It's not pleasant, but it will give you the tools to start putting your life back together. And I say that as someone who is literally not had a single drink, you know, in 20 years. Great. Congratulations. It's, yeah, a lot of our people did very, very well, by the way. A lot of them do, or lives were transformed, and I'm so pleased for them so happy for them. Well, Brianna, I appreciate spending all the time with us. You've helped me sort out my thinking a little bit.

It's a complicated landscape. and I'm glad you're there sort of trying to push out a reasoned approach to it because it deserves it and it needs it. Yeah. Thank you very much. I want my sisters to get help. It's just this is extreme health care. Taking medications to destroy your testicles. That's an extreme action.

You shouldn't do that if you aren't really sure you're a transsexual. And, you know, it has some liver effects and it has some mood effects and it has a lot of them, has some bone effects. and so you want to be, it's a, you know, people that are anti-pharma, strangely are pro this, these meds. So you should be very skeptical that circumspect, not skeptical, well, circumspect when you're giving somebody dangerous serious medications.

That's right. All right, Bradd, thanks so much. Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. You got it. Let us get our friend Viva Frye in here, the Viva Frye, V-I-V-V-A-E-E-A-E-E-E-A-E-E-E-V-A-E-E-E-V-A F-R-E-I, Viva-Fry.com. rumble is Viva Fry.

Everything's Viva Fry, it looks like. So is he on the horn here? There we go. Hey, my friend. It wasn't obvious Viva Fry. I got Viva Fry up there. Viva Fry back there. Yeah.

Viva Fry. You know, how did it go from David Fryeheight to Viva Fry? I think I asked you that years ago, but tell me. Totally random. So when that initial squirrel video went viral in 2014 November, I needed to put something on the channel banner other than the default. And then I was thinking, I went with Viva Fry, Live Free or Die. And then the family said, drop the Live for Your Die.

It's a little cynical and it's the New Hampshire license plate. So just go with Viva Frye. Just because it's half of my last name. Live and Freight like Freight. You know, I admire Marine Le Pen's speaking style because at the end of every speech, she always goes, sometimes she'll have Vive la Justice, but she'll say she'll say, vive la Republic,

Vive la France. It's like, whew, so Vive a fry. So did you hear any of the conversation I just have, Brianna Vu? Yeah, a bit of it. The tail in last five minutes, give or take. Yeah, so she's being very intelligent about trying to approach this

expanded category, we call transsexual, that is a lot of different things. And so people are getting the same treatment for a lot of different disorders. And as you would have predicted, outcomes become varied. No, it is. Brianna is, you know,

one of the examples online of people who want to live their lives as an adult, making their own decisions at their own risks in peril. But, and like Brianna mentioned, I think I heard this as well. The whole, I don't know if you've seen

the new Canadian acronym for the, it used to be 2S-LGBQIA plus. They've thrown in like a three- and a W now. I don't even know what it means anymore. I think we have the video. I think we have the video of that. Hold on here. Caleb, do you have that video? If you've got it, it's an SNL skit. Come, you know, became a government. Here it is. Here it is.

A world without trans people has never existed. A world without drag has never existed and it never will. I'm not sure this is it. We have always been here amongst us. This one I think is from a while back because they're wearing masks. I think that was during COVID. Oh, yeah. And the acronym, sorry, that must be the wrong video because the acronym only has 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 characters in it.

And they've expanded it. No, this is a, this is a native, we call them Native Americans. What do you call them in Canada? I say I was going to get myself canceled. I thought it might have been an actual. I'm not trying to be funny. From India, Indian. But if it's an Indian from North America, Native American.

But the Canadians. Canadians have a specific, they don't refer to them as Native Americans the way we do. Indigenous people. They say indigenous people. Yeah. And so I think she was an indigenous person. But anyway, she went through the list and it was about, looked like about 30 letters. Well, it's an absolute joke.

I mean, it would be a joke if it's, if it were funny. It's a government. And the, I'm not trying to be hyperbolic. The patients have taken over the asylum and they're running the government and they're going to run it into the ground. But it's so crazy. Like even the idea that, you know, the world has never lived without trans people. There it is. MMI. There it is. See you the, yeah. MMI. G. So it's the two. It started at the two before. M.M.I.W. G. Am I going to try to guess what it means? Because I actually, I think, I don't know that I know. M. Oh, I have no idea.

I got to go see what that, what that actually stands for. No, he, hold on. Now I'm, now I'm nervous. This might actually be a joke. Hold on. M-M-I-G-S. No, no, no, that's it. That is it. I've seen that several places. I've seen exactly that. And I've seen somebody go through the specific names and things. And it, it has some, you know, culturally unique. Yes, it does. This is, it's insanity. It's missing and murdered indigenous women, girls, and two-spirit, lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, questioning, intersex and asexual. True.

Something you have to understand, you probably know this, many people watching probably do. There was that report that came out that referred to what happens to the indigenous in Canada as genocide. It was a whole report. So, you know, like indigenous women go missing

and are victims of violence at an exponentially high rate, and they called it genocide. The vast majority, like the wild vast majority of this violence is done by other indigenous men on the reserves. And the way they still get the way with calling it genocide,

implying that white Europeans or, you know, white Canadians are doing it, is to suggest that the reason why indigenous men are, I won't say prone to violence, but the perpetrators of violence are because, you know, of the victims of their oppression by the white oppressors. And so they call it genocide, even though the vast majority of the violence to indigenous women is done by indigenous men on reserves, which is, you know, technically not subject to federal jurisdiction. and they added that for missing indigenous women.

It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a, I mean, what does that even have to do with sexual orientation? Or gender, well, no, no, gender. Well, yeah. So what is, well, what does gender have to do with sexual orientation? It's a wholly separate phenomenon. This entire thing is, basically perversions that I don't care to know about anybody. Like, the whole two spirit is the indigenous version of missing murder, indigenous. Indigenous women, girls, and two spirit.

This whole thing is about celebrating your sexual, I won't say perversions, but predilections, which nobody cares about. Whatever you like, do in your bedroom, but to now have to fly a flag of pride, which once upon a time was one of the seven deadly sins. Now you take pride in your sexual proclivities and think that other people have to cater to them and take an interest in them. Keep them to yourself, nobody cares. Nobody cares what I do in the bedroom either.

other than that I'm getting adjada from this topic my friend getting adjutor from the topic I see why you and Grober are doing your movie review show so tell us about that I need a breather well it's what's amazing is Mark Grover Lord Buckley on the interwebs they've got America's Untold stories on their channel

with Eric Hunley we're all going a little crazy with the incessant nasty invasive politics So every Thursday now, 7 o'clock on Commi Tube, and I have to set the channel up on Rumble, we do movie reviews, and we try to stay away from the modern crap. So we're doing classics. We did, oh, geez, we did Casablanca. We did seven days in May. We did Fight Club.

And tonight we're doing LA Confidential. So it is good to get back to a time when movies were actually good, when they were not infused with all of this identity politics, and when they actually knew how to make a movie and not preach politics via. Although maybe they always did anyhow. But it is. I, you know, movies to me are, first of all, I've watched a lot of foreign films on because they're different, they're intriguing, and they're actually funny. There's actually story and character and interpersonal relationships and things. But when they're fun here in this country, they're fun because just there's fun action,

this fun sort of fantasy attached to it. But nine times out of ten, I find myself getting angry with the screenwriting. It's just so, so weak, so pathetic. and it just get angry out. I'm like, oh, I'm just wasting my time. It's terrible. Like, I mean, there have been a few exceptions of decent movies made in the last decade. But, you know, it seems like my coming of age was in the 90s, Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs.

You know, a lot of the Tarantino classics where the movies were good. And they were, they were brutal. They were, you know, original. They had plots and they had development. And they have, now it's like, it's Marvel. It's Iron Man crap and the other guy who snaps. Is it just over? Is it?

we're all just on our screens and our ability to watch a film is just done? It's politics ruins everything. I mean, the politics has become pervasive in Hollywood. To some extent, political correctness has become pervasive where you just can't have comedies like you used to have with the Farley brothers back in the day. And people are too scared to make funny movies.

They're too scared to push boundaries. And I guess it's easier to just put out these scar. I don't watch very many Marvel movies. The only one I saw, which I actually liked, was Deadpool, because it had some originality, too. It had some humor and it had some deeper plot other than... What's the other one? The Avengers and Captain of the Universe...

Iron Man, I'm thinking of, yeah. We're going over the classics. It's great, but knowing what I know now, I go back and watch some movies that I used to love and I have difficulty going back to watch them, on the one hand, because some of these actors have become political activist hacks, like watching Taxi Driver now,

A, knowing what they actually... used to do when they were making movies and the perversion of Hollywood makes it difficult. But tonight, L.A. Confidential should be a good one. So you've been, now, I haven't talked to you in probably maybe six months or so. And now you've been, how long you've been living in the United States? It's four years now. Before five years. Has there been, yeah, has there been an evolution?

I felt like when I was at your house in Florida, you were kind of a newcomer. Has your, and I don't mean that in any way, just accept that it was a, kind of a feeling. Has your perception of this country and the state you live in changed across that time? No, what's interesting, I have noticed, not the politics, but the online element of politics has changed somewhat. And, you know, when I came to the states, it was in 2022, Biden was firmly in power. You know, my aspirations definitely lied in a upcoming Trump presidency. I've been following this since 2020 when I want to get you in trouble here,

but when I believe there was fornification afoot in the election. And, you know, it was interesting to be on the, then, the risky side of things where, you know, when you're defending Jan Sixers and when you're attacking an administration, especially when you know that there's a corrupt DOJ FBI, you say, like, oh, you know, they could make life, you know, something of a living hell.

But then, you know, the miracle happens. Trump gets elected. And there's a three-month, call it a honeymoon. There was a three months in the initial phase of Trump's second term where things were not a honeymoon in the sense we were just euphoric. Progress was being made. And then as things started slowing, the only thing I'm noticing is that once people get into power, they no longer like even constructive criticism and the sentiment online I've noticed, unfortunately, has become there's no room for constructive criticism because everyone views it with the same

lens of what I call destructive criticism as opposed to constructive criticism of an administration that I desperately want, need, and hope to see succeed. And so I've noticed a little bit of the change in the discourse where there's a lot less room for dissenting voices or criticism constructive as it may be fine. But it also, you know, things are not, obviously politically speaking, they're in a bit of a turmoil and it's causing a little bit of strife among people who have two gotten along. But other than that, that, other than that, I love, Yeah. Yeah. You love the United States too or just Florida? No, no, I love the United States. This is, I mean, I'm not unpatriotic to say it's the greatest country on earth. I wouldn't have left Canada if politically speaking it wasn't a sinking ship. Worse than a sicking ship, a proverbial black hole. What makes America great is the room for dissenting view. What is irritating are seeing a lot of people who, you know, purport to be Americans and American spirit saying, shut up and.

that we don't want to hear from you if you don't say what we want you to say right now. That'll change. Yeah. It's funny that you brought this up today because I woke up this morning with, I adjusted some of my opinions about things like vaccines and I was even softening some of my opinions on lockdowns and stuff. I just sort of was updating my priors. It's Bayesian reasoning.

I was updating my priors. And I had moved into a slightly different place. And I thought, oh my God, it just if I'm not all one way or all another, people don't want to hear it and they're pissed. So now everyone's going to be pissed at me. Because much like with the conversation I just heard, Brownaboo, I'm trying to navigate this where we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. We help people that are transsexual. We don't hurt people that maybe have a different thing going on. But just doing that, just talking about that, people light on fire, their hair catches on fire. And that is not a good

way to go through life. And it's not a good way to solve problems. Certainly not a good way to practice medicine. And I would argue it's not a good way to generate a people. opinions. You should be constantly adjusting and moving and taking certain things and throwing others way. I don't know. Maybe I'm old-fashioned. You know, you're a thousand percent right. It's antithetical to development and growth, period. And the idea of shutting up the voices that you don't like. I mean, it's one thing. If you run around calling people names, it's one thing, but people tend to disregard opinions that, you know, don't contribute anything to the discussion. but to silence dissent because, you know, you have to support everything in administration that you had hitherto supported does, that's, A, not how you progress in life. It's not how you evolve. And it's actually how you basically never acknowledge or reverse course when you're making mistakes. I don't know if I've used this analogy here, but I use it often is that I used to represent a lot of restaurateurs when I was a lawyer. And one of my favorite clients, he said, the worst thing that you can have is a client who doesn't have a good,

and leaves and doesn't tell you about it. And they'll never come back. You'll never hear anything negative, and then you're out of business, and then you don't apply. But right now it's like, look, the Trump administration has made some mistakes in my humble view.

It is exponentially better than what would have been a Kamala presidency. It effectively stopped the death spiral that America was in, if only because of immigration. But when you see it making a mistake that might result in Democrats taking over in 2026 and then winning the presidency in 2008,

you would be remiss, you'd be the patron who doesn't say what was wrong with the meal, never comes back, and then the restaurant goes out of business. And you're like, oh, how did they go to business? Well, nobody told them what they needed to do to make it better. And then you get your people who say, it's the best restaurant ever shut your face. If you don't like it, don't come back. That's how people slowly start coming back to the restaurant, and it's not good for anybody. Yeah.

Yeah, I agree with you. And I hope people will keep speaking up and listening to each other. but I don't know. The one side is so intolerant and the other side is becoming intolerant. It's hard to watch all this go down. I guess it's always been the case. I mean, this is not new to history, right?

I mean, the more I read, the more I see, the true believers and the dissenters, and it's always been there. And my revelation, my deep thought is that, you know, everyone when they're aspiring for power, they love free speech. It's how you challenge the ideas of those in power. once you get into power, people don't like free speech anymore because it's how their power and their voice is challenged.

And it is effectively, you know, a mutatus mutatus of what Mark Twain said, you know, when you find yourself on the side of the majority, take a step back and reflect. And people should be doing that right now. And also not burning bridges with everybody who issues the slightest bit of criticism because there is destructive criticism. There is constructive criticism. And although destructive criticism basically serves no purpose, if you don't listen to the constructive criticism, things go south, and then you say, why didn't somebody, you know, say anything? And generally, an ad hominem, a personal attack, you're whatever, fill in the blank, that's, that's meaning, that doesn't do anything. It's like walking out of the restaurant going,

you know, you're an asshole and then they walk out, but they don't, nothing else, nothing about the food, nothing about the service, just to declare somebody's an asshole. No, but I like it. I see, I say you could be ad hominum, you can call someone assholes, say a a dumbass. But you have to also give in the substance in there. So you can say dumbass. You put weight of salt. And that's fine. No, I am not above, you know, insult. I say insulting, calling people names online. But I like to believe that I at least throw in the factual substantive retort. So above and beyond the rhetorical dumbass, have you thought about X, Y, and Z? But, no, it is, it'll change. And the bottom line is people will learn. You cannot get into a position

where you refuse to listen to critical or dissenting thought and the second you start silencing it well congratulations you're no better than the people that were doing it before that we were just railing against the last. It's how I... Right, it's how I adjust my opinions

why my opinions are changing a little bit. But Viva, other than the Grober Project, where shall we find you? Oh, wait, wait, I have a question. Hold on. There's a rumor out there that you and Barnes are going to be on the view. Oh.

No, that is not a... I don't think that's a rind us. I think that's an insult. No, because people, when I say people are, people are pissed off with Barnes. Did you see the clip he was wrong with Alex Jones? And then Jones said, how do we eat 25th his ass talking about Trump? And then Barnes is like the 25th Amendment is harder than an impeachment because it requires two thirds in both the Senate and Congress.

And so that clip went viral. Scott Jennings on CNN played that clip, not knowing who Barnes was. And then so people are very pissed off at Robert because, in their mind, his hyperbolic, you know, Alex Jones talking about a 25th to wake Trump out of his the end, the civilization will die never to come back again, truth post. They don't like that. Apparently, apparently you're not MAG up if you don't back that post. So they're suggesting that, you know, Barnes has now become no better than the view MSNBC. The reality is, again, people like hearing what they don't want to hear. And ignoring a, ignoring a house on fire is not going to put

out. So, you know, but, well, I don't agree with the 25th Amendment discussion, you know, at this point in time with Trump at least. It might have been more true of, was more true of Biden. But that is why people are very pissed off at Barnes and they're going to follow me wherever I go now to say, your friend Barnes better go on the view. Next, he's going to be out there with Whoopi Goldberg. Well, where shall people go to see you in Barnes? So you can go to Viva and, well, it's Viva Barnes Law. locals.com. That's our locals community. I'm live daily on Rumble at 3 o'clock. Sunday night,

it's on all platforms, Viva and Barnes Law for the People. That's where we talk about everything. And tonight, 7 o'clock on YouTube, Viva and Lord Buckley, go to the movies. Check it out. Thank you, Viva. Talk to you soon. Thank you. Next up, Brad Palumbo coming in here. We're going to go back a little bit into the transgender topic a bit. Brad is on X at Brad underscore Palumbo, P-O-L-U-S-A. MBO. He's got a lot of really interesting thoughts. He's a investigated journalist amongst other things. He'll be with us right after this. More of our audience is taking health and wellness into their own hands and they're doing it with the wellness company. For a discount on the bestselling products and everything on their website, for that matter, go to Dr. Drew.com slash TWC.

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you can bookend your day. Go to doctor.com slash paleo valley for 15% off your first order, 20% off when you subscribe. Brad Palumbo, you can find him, as I said, on X at Brad underscore Palumbo. Brad, thank you for being here. Hey, good to be with you. So thank you. He helped out on actual friends. And I said, that might be good on our show.

So a few things I want to get into with you. Is there anything on your radar today, by the way? I'm just interested in what you're interested in, for one thing. But anything concerning you today? Oh, wow. Well, there's so much.

I just realized RFK Jr. is dropping a podcast because we just don't have enough podcasts in the world. So thankfully there'll be another person making a podcast. Thankfully it is him. I'd happily go on it. I want to hear what he's got to say. And at first I was a little, I don't know, I was concerned about it.

But then I thought, well, I kind of want to hear what he's fighting in the swamp there. I mean, there's all kinds of people talking about it. Mahas really talks about it. But what is his perception of it? So I kind of welcome at least for a while. We'll see. Yeah, we'll see. I'll wait for the first step.

episode. So tell me about the Supreme Court and conversion therapy. What do we do with this? Well, this is a huge Supreme Court case. And it's frankly kind of one that would have baffled me a couple of years ago thinking about it for a couple of reasons. I mean, the idea that two Democratic appointed Supreme Court justices would have actually agreed with the conservative majority to strike down LGBT rights in air quotes there, legislation that that BAT appointed. conversion therapy, as they call it in Colorado. I mean, that would have been unthinkable to me a couple of years ago, that there would be that kind of cross-ideological agreement.

And that should be the first sign to folks at home that this is not some crazy far-right Supreme Court decision that's going to start shocking the gay out of confused teenagers again. What this is instead is, frankly, common sense. I have actually, and it's been a little bit of a journey for me because I've advocated for years that I do think anti-gay conversion therapy in terms of treatments like shock therapy and that kind of thing should be illegal. It doesn't work and I think it's a fraudulent medical practice. But these laws were so broad and so sweeping that they essentially covered talk therapy. They said you could not as a psychological provider, you couldn't even talk to your clients

about their gender identity or sexuality unless you were saying the things they wanted you to say about it. That's obviously a free speech issue and especially as it lumps in gender identity, it's almost malpractice to just blindly affirm whatever they tell you. But that was literally the law in Colorado that's now being sent back for review and will almost certainly be struck down. Well, that part of the gender treatment or the transsexual community treatment is still, there's nobody that says anything other than an affirmation. That's what I was talking to Brianna Wu about, is that that's it. And even she and I talking about the nuances of, you know,

sorting out this broad category of transsexual and doing what's right for each individual so the outcomes are as good as possible. You can't even do that. I'm probably going to be canceled for having that conversation. Somebody's going to come after me. And I just want to do good by people and make sure their outcomes are good. so we don't have people that are detransitioning or unhappy or made miserable. The only positive outcome is what I want to see.

That's on my profession to do that as well as possible. But the detrans the, what's it called the conversion therapy? Conversion therapy, though, I mean, conversion therapy is a horror show, right? We can agree on that? Yeah. Oh, the old school conversion therapy is off. forms. Well, but it's sort of in all its forms, right? In kind of all its forms. However, to talk to a youth that is unclear about their sexual identity, that seems like routine adolescent care.

That seems like just what you would do if an adolescent is distressed, right? And was that what was outlawed? Yeah, so that's what I mean. The law defined conversion therapy so broadly that it went so far beyond the scope of anything you or I would have thought of as conversion. therapy. What it said was that a therapist even talking to you and not affirming your gender. So say, for example, you have a 12-year-old that comes in that thinks they're non-binary is their gender identity. And I was listening to your conversation with Brianna. And I completely have always agreed with people like her living their lives, transitioning if they want, adults making their own informed choices. I will always believe that. But I'll never believe in this whole

idea of non-binary and especially I'll never believe in it coming from a confused 12-year-old who just heard about it on TikTok. But this law defined it as illegal conversion therapy to tell that 12-year-old, you're not non-binary, you're a biological female, talk to me about why you're feeling, or even if you just ask questions. It required you legislatively to affirm any identity presented. and look, I don't know the exact right way to handle a child with profound and persistent gender dysphoria. I don't believe they should be making any irreversible medical changes until they're adults,

but I do know that any responsible clinician can't just blindly accept what a 10-year-old or 11-year-old is telling you without pushing back on it. And if they really do have persistent gender dysphoria, well, then you simply not immediately affirming it won't make that go. away. But there's a lot of confused kids who just see something on TikTok or other kids in their class, make an announcement. And that social phenomenon is exactly why it's important for doctors and for therapists and counselors to be able to talk to you about this stuff and not have their

viewpoint. Because that was part of the Supreme Court case was that they didn't just say you can't talk to kids about gender identity. They said, you're allowed to talk to your patients, but only if you essentially adopt the progressive view. So they imposed a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, viewpoint onto the therapists and the counselors who are regulated in Colorado and other states have similar laws that will be re-evaluated. And so that was also part of the First Amendment analysis that laws regulating medicine are legitimate, but they're supposed to be viewpoint neutral, not enforcing an ideological consensus. But that's what these laws did. And it was so blatant that you had two Democratic appointed justices joining on in the ruling. So that's how you know

it's not some doomsday scenario. It's common sense and just upholding the law. if anybody has any questions from you or Brad we are taking calls at 8333D-R-R-A-W but the the I get it on the gender side but on the sexual orientation side was it also off the rail there I mean because again I worry I worry that it's going to leave I'm sure not just me lots of people are worried there's going to leave room for some of these what we used to call conversion therapies but there can be conversion light therapies that could be a look if somebody comes into the room with any orientation about what the outcome is supposed to be I'm going to make this kid straight I'm going to make this kid whatever that that is not practicing medicine anymore and so is this

going to leave open the door to that kind of stuff well so one thing is you see a lot of like influencers or progressive commentators and Democrats invoking like the Supreme Court just legalized conversion therapy, like nausea inducement, and shock therapy. None of that's true. It only applies to talk therapy. Now, we can get into the nuances of whether a therapist should be allowed. Because part of the problem was the law defined not just talking to about changing your identity, but also your practices.

And sexual practices wanting to change that is different than, for example, saying we're going to turn you straight. But for example, and this is the kind of thing that I don't agree with, but I understand that maybe people have a legal right to do. If you want to go to a Christian counselor who's going to tell you that as a gay person, God calls on you to be celibate and abstain from same-sex relations, listen, do I agree with that? No, but do I think you probably have a right to do that, I guess? So that's the only kind of thing that could potentially be back in play here is talk therapy. And frankly, if they had never put into the same laws conversion. Can't hear him.

Caleb, we lost your mic. Wait, there we go. I was trying to scramble. Let me see if it was on my end. Okay, you're back. So I must have. Go back about a paragraph. So, listen, I go ahead.

I get what you're saying. And it's understandable. and it's challenging territory. I got to admit, this is, this is rough going. This is why we have a Constitution, right? It's why we have Bill of Wright trying to navigate these things and why we have a Supreme Court, and I get it. But it is, I forget what my fear was,

but go ahead and finish your thought. Maybe it'll occur to me in a second. Oh, well, I was just saying that lumping these laws together for both gender identity and sexual orientation was a mistake. When they were past, really nobody was thinking about trans identities and therapy with gender. It was just kind of lumped in there, but it's really something very different.

When people talk about the studies showing conversion therapy is harmful and doesn't work, they're absolutely correct. But those studies are about sexual orientation conversion therapy. They're not about gender identity. There's very little research or evidence about that. It's just fundamentally a different thing. And so I think the core of the problem here was just like lumping this into the same bill and treating them interchangeably when in fact they're very, very different. Not a lot of people.

And I don't know. You could maybe talk about this. But like not a lot of people are confused and think they're gay and then realize they're not. You kind of actually either are or aren't. I mean, never say never. That's right. There's billions of humans. Whereas something as nebulous as gender identity and how you feel inside.

and all these kind of identities and pronouns and the new acronyms they're coming up with is not the same thing. And in fact, a lot of people do actually outgrow gender dysphoria when they go through their birth sex puberty. If they're not put on the chemical pipeline and given puberty blockers, that's just not the case with sexual orientation. So treating them as the same or interchangeable was a big mistake. And these laws absolutely did that. So they were always kind of going to be a problem. Yeah, what you like is a very different topic than who you are and what your identity is. And it's interesting to me, I was just thinking for a second here about hallucinogenics and their popularity.

One of the great concerns I have about hallucinogenics is it changes people's character and identity. That's a profound thing. And we just go, oh, yeah, they seem happier now. No, no, no, no, no. They were not in control of these changes. A chemical changed their brain and that changed who they are. And that whole area of identity needs to be highly protected from anything that is that takes over the process from the patient. I'm not saying the patient has to be affirmed all the time, but the patient has to be involved in the process where they're constantly hard of it rather than it being taken over by a person with an ideology or a pill or a chemical that affects identity.

it's a real serious problem that very few people kind of dig into right now. You were in front of Congress. Tell me about that. Oh, well, that was years ago now, but it was during the COVID pandemic and the lockdowns. And I was a very early critic of this. So I did testify before the Senate Small Business Committee. It must have been 2021. It feels like ancient history now. But I talked about how harmful these lockdowns and these school closures were and this huge uptick in like suicidal thinking among young adults and all of this kind of thing that we were just told, trust the science, trust the science. And I am very much not somebody who's a conspiracy theorist. I don't have a tinfoil hat.

I don't distrust everything Dr. Fauci ever said, but I'm also not going to just blindly accept it. And so I was a little bit on the earlier side in terms of journalists reporting on the harms of some of these things. And you really, I mean, you did get quite attacked for that. I don't know what your experience was, but like the mainstream publications, like the Atlantic, they accused Georgia, I think it was the state of Georgia, of human sacrifice for rolling back lockdowns. It's like you really were accused of endangering people. If you question this stuff, which has tradeoffs.

My background is originally in economics, is what I studied in college. That's what they teach you. Everything in life has tradeoffs. So even if your policies do prevent X number of infections or deaths, well, they're going to cause a lot of other consequences that can lead to deaths or ruin lives. So there wasn't nearly enough conversation about that. It was just almost a blind cult-like mantra of listen to the experts, listen to the experts, even though what they were saying kept shifting and clearly wasn't purely scientific, but was also politically motivated. Yeah, in medicine, we call that risk reward.

You have to always inform consent, risk reward. We did none of that. And Francis Collins said that publicly. They took no risk reward into consideration. That is disgusting. New York Times took off after me a couple times I think and you need to I don't know if you've educated yourself on this but you're a perfect person to be reading about mass formation and true believers you and I are in this group mass formation is something that comes upon human populations on a regular basis I thought it was something only happened in the mid-20th century turns out it happens throughout history

just happened here in the world and and about 10% of people in the face of people doing the kinds of things you were describing, canceling people, you know, accusing people of horrible things. By the way, you who if you did that during COVID, you would have been a prison guard in 1939. That's what you would be. You need to look at yourself and recognize that would have been your role. Prison guard putting Jews in the ovens.

That would have been you. So that the people that did that are what are called true believers. And they make up about 20% of the population. 70% just wants to be left alone. 10% like you and me are going, uh, uh, go, uh, what? Hold on a second. This doesn't seem right. We need to study the true believers more. There's a book out. Have you read the book, True Believers? No, I should. It's a, it's a firsthand account by a guy that was just observing. Uh, and man, he nails it.

He's not trained in anything particular, but his writing is beautiful. And he, he just, his observations are just penetrating. And I thought, wow, we all need to understand who the true believers are how this happens to people and then how we've bat them away when they come around again because throughout history they have tremendous potential to do harm uh they could also be good right they can bring them you can be a true believer in a positive way but uh mostly they do tends to harm and even the true believer is a positive way need to be held to account they need to be like some of their enthusiasm needs to be damped so brad what are you working on now where can we find you? Well, I host the Brad versus Everyone podcast where I cover basically media insanity, online drama,

and controversies. And that's, listen to it on any podcast platform or on YouTube is the number one place to find the show. The true believer book, given that that's what you're focused on in your podcast. And by the way, I'll happily come on any time we can organize it. I look forward to it because your thinking is so good and so clear and so I just appreciate people that are thinking about things and not just reacting to things. And you're not afraid to have an opinion and you're not afraid to look at things

in an unblemished fashion. But I think you would enjoy that true believer book. It's not a super enjoyable read, but you'll see familiar figures in there and go, oh, that's what that is. Thank you for being here, Brad. I appreciate it. I'll see you again soon.

Thank you. You bet. Ed Plumba, everybody. All right. So I am going to be away next Tuesday. So we're going to take a day off there. I'll be in New York City and do a bunch of media across the weekend. But we will on Wednesday.

In your show. Oh, yeah. Sunday night, I've got a show called Health Uncensored. It has moved over to Back to Fox Business. It'll be there at 5 o'clock, Eastern, 2 o'clock Pacific. It's a good show. It's a good little show. What day? Sunday. Sunday to 12th. Sunday to Pacific. Sunday to 12, 5 p.m.

Or 5 p.m. Fox business. You go on, you get a whole hour with Drew and Sage. No, no, no. Sage is one of the interviews I do. And I think Greg Grunberg is on it. That may be coming up the following week. And then Russell Brand comes through. There's a lot of people on the show like that are talking about health items. Medical breakthroughs. Medical breakthroughs that we try to focus on. And just different ideas. new ideas and new sort of interesting organizations and products and supplements and things. We can have at least 5,000 people watching.

It would be good. Wednesday, Ryan Cole, Aaron, Siri coming back. Sonia Eliha and Nick Freitas on Thursday, Del Big Tree the following week, salty crackery returns. Dr. Scott Atlas, I'll make some of them very much looking forward to that. And so we will see you. Remember Wednesday is at 4 o'clock Pacific. We'll see you then.

Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. Emily Barsh is our content producer. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today,

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